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"Liberal Zionism": A Contradiction in Terms
BEGIN QUOTE. For many Americans who have Zionist and liberal inclinations, confronting this reality is both difficult and necessary. Yet “Liberal Zionists” choose instead to create and focus on illusions to avoid making the decisions, imposed on them by Zionism’s colonialist reality, that make them cringe. . . . Rather, what is needed today before tomorrow is for that confrontation to take place; one is either a liberal or a Zionist. Being too afraid to choose can no longer be an option. END QUOTE. - MRW
No such thing as liberal zionist if you define liberalism as promoting human and civil rights and equality. All zionist are crazy if you ask me, they define themselves at various times as a religion , a ancient race, a ethnic, a 'people', as white, then as semites or all those things in combination ,or whatever serves their purpose at any given time. It truly is a cult, not rational. - American
A sociopathic and predatory biblical cult? Sometimes it looks that way. One thing is for certain: modern Western democratic values (including Americanism) are radically incompatible with ethnic and religious nationalism (which is what Zionism is all about). - Sean McBride
Sean...see my post above on the book by Chua "World On Fire'. I think the intersection of ethnocenticism and capitalism would interest you. - American
I saw it -- I am going to check out the book. Theoretically creative capitalism should reduce ethnocentrism. Perhaps crony capitalism exacerbates it. But I don't claim to fully understand her thesis yet. - Sean McBride
Rothschild style capitalism is different from Adam Smith style capitalism. Niall Ferguson spells that out in the first pages of his bio of Rothschilds. In "Money Men," H L Brands comments that Rothschilds made it difficult for US to finance Civil War (although they almost certainly were on the side of Great Britain and the South -- German Jewish immigrants were heavily involved in... more... - Solon
The Rothschilds may be the key to understanding much of modern Western history -- and this subject can be approached without a trace of antisemitism. (See, for instance, Niall Ferguson.) - Sean McBride
On DailyKos it is more likely that a comment will be banned for mentioning Rothschilds than for denying the holocaust. Rothschildism is Sacred Ground. But agreed, the study of Rothschilds is an extremely important, objective intellectual historical exercise. - Solon
There is a great deal of reputable, mainstream historical research out there about the Rothschilds -- it's an important historical topic with significant relevance to the present. Arguably they constructed the most powerful network of influence on the planet -- one which is still active today and perhaps more powerful than ever. What I WOULD object to, however, is using this subject to promote antisemitic themes about Jews in general. - Sean McBride
Sean wrote: "One thing is for certain: modern Western democratic values (including Americanism) are radically incompatible with ethnic and religious nationalism (which is what Zionism is all about)" hmmm. I've been reading "Roger Williams and the Creation of the American Soul," and just this afternoon the postman delivered Andrew Bacevich's "The Short American Century: A Postmortem."... more... - Solon
Bacevich's book is a collection of essays on US history. The essay by historian Eugene McCarraher, titled "The Heavenly City of Business," starts with themes from Augustine' s City of God, walks through the history narrated in the Roger Williams history, mentioned above, and continues from there, taking a major leap into consumer/capitalist culture as the "new" religion of the Puritan republic, emerging most powerfully during and after the two world wars. - Solon
In other words, it's not JUST the Jewish or zionist or Israel lobby influence that has led the US astray; there is a strain of 'zionism' deeply entrenched in the American Protestant psyche (I'm from a Catholic background & don't understand it effortlessly and also might tend to be repulsed by the arrogance of it; the Catholic tradition that I was reared in was of the St Francis of... more... - Solon
What frightens me into thinking myself 'antisemitic' is, I think (hope) a sophomoric fascination with how exotic the zionist/Puritan/evangelical Christian world view is, compared to my peasant Catholic background. I continue on the assumption that if I continue to study in good faith, I will achieve a logical, rational, intellectually honest balance. I hope. In any event, my background teaches me that I do not have the right to abandon the study because it is uncomfortable. - Solon
There is a strain of Old Testament Zionism in American culture, primarily by way of the Puritans, but the American Founding Fathers were almost all Enlightenment rationalists and far more intellectually formidable people than the Puritans. Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine, in particular, detested the Old Testament and everything it stood for. - Sean McBride
I think you are over studying the religious esoteric type writers'll have to ask sean as the religious history expert-- but I have never seen strains of zionism in the US or our founders and founding-----I do see the Old Testament strain in some very non main stream type of religious that remind me of the primitive Puritans. - American
Sean, American, you may find amusement -- or dismay-- in C Span's Washington Journal program this morning (Apr 8 '12, Easter). Libby took calls on "Do you feel your religious liberties are impaired." She read from a column by Gary Wills that slammed Thos' Jefferson's 'Bible,' "The Life & Morals of Jesus of Nazareth." In my congregation of One, Jefferson's Bible is the cornerstone. This... more... - Solon
well. Jones was on C Span again this morning. Apparently, he is now the go-to guy for C Span on religion/politics. I did some research on Jones the first time I saw him on C Span and discovered that he's tangentially related to rabidly right-wing evangelicals. I don't remember the details and don't feel inclined to look it up again. - Solon
I turned off Wash Journ this morning for a couple of reasons, one being the thought that C Span's journalism on the topic 'religion' was shoddy. Libby introduced the topic/program with a poll -- not any kind of background like, the history of American religious tradition, or how American institutions have evolved from original religious founding principles etc., but a poll. That's like describing the Roman Empire by showing a snapshot of Trevi Fountain. It's shallow. - Solon
i think "disavowal" of atzmon is entirely defensible and a rational move from most anyone (with a high profile) in the movement for palestinian rights. but i prefer they say *nothing* wrt atzmon. this comes from a staunch defender of blankfort, and his continued role in the movement, and a *fan* of atzmon's work and many interviews. anyone agree?
the reason i say this is because atzmon is great, but he often makes horrible analogies, gross hyperbolic comments, and is more key for jewish introspection rather than as a prominent "face" in the movement for peace and justice. we often like to close ranks, and have seen great nuanced people ostracized, but atzmon is a liability (though i think he should be widely read, and don't think anyone who speaks highly of him should be guilty through "guilt by association", nor is atzmon himself guilty of anything). the quotes which especially turn me off include the following. - anonymouscomments
1) he often refers to israeli jails as "concentration camps" which is really a very counterproductive and counterfactual analogy [this cannot be blamed on language barriers, he means the analogy] - anonymouscomments
2) he says that the debate over the validity of the protocols is a moot point, specifically because what we have is "much worse" [i think reality is sadly close to the protocols in various ways, but not as bad as the protocols, and by no means *much worse*] - anonymouscomments
3) he often makes VERY sweeping comments, and lacks *required* nuance. he almost wants jews to 'go away' in some manner, which is also not going to happen. he also often seems to think almost all (if not all) jews (those who identify as jews, or simply are jews) as part of some grand scheme of zionism. this flies in the face of many of the jews we know, here or on MW. this is also a... more... - anonymouscomments
*and i will state that most all the ideas of atzmon, if presented in a much more nuanced, academic, and less sensational manner stand as very reasonable. but he is not such a type, hence many of his quotes and lines of thought are therefore gravely tarnished. i would not associate with him if i were a "jew" for palestinian rights, or a non-jewish person for palestinian rights. but i would still listen to him and read him. - anonymouscomments
My opinion? I/P will never be settled in a just and fair manner by agreement between Jews and Palestine. Won't happen. I don't think Atzmon was attacked because he was determintal to the Palestine cause. - American
let me know how that nuclear war turns out then.... israel would use tactical nukes and hydrogen bombs on any adjacent area, if they were in fear of collapse. they might even "take the whole world down with them". also, i do not see how his hyperbole, and over-done comments *help* us. again, i state that his ideas are fine, but he is not appropriate as a *leading* public face in the... more... - anonymouscomments
What is the ' movement" you are referring to? Is it anyone out there speaking about I/P? Or some formal group as represented by the letter signers? Who is 'in charge' of the movement? I think they made a big mistake going nuclear on him. Certainly attracted my attention and makes me question the real motives of the Jews involved in movement and what their real interest is which I didn't question before. - American
i think he is undeniably part of the *movement*... anyone who wants to be, should be. perhaps i used the wrong framing. i am not playing the gatekeeper role, that atzmon correctly called out as a zionist form of policing. what i am saying is that groups and individuals, especially those of "prominence" can very reasonably either ignore him, or come out against him in general (disavow... more... - anonymouscomments
I ordered his book to see for myself but haven't gotten it yet, but have been reading articles on his site. I don't see anything there so far that is anti semitic. I do see him refusing to do nuance and busting up the myths necessary to zionism. Who do you think he would turn off?...Jews or Palestines or Gentiles? And what is it he would say that would offend or turn off someone? That... more... - American
mous...I think your heart is in the right place..." as justice will only come when jews and israelis "come around", even if it is the last act, and comes after much pain. people who are jewish are key players, and though they should not be the defining players, they are the *ultimate* goal.... the jews, and specifically israelis must come around for any sense of peace or justice. a... more... - American
american- i just bought his book this past weekend, and have listened to every interview i could get with him. i like atzmon. but he says some *really* out there things, usually in interviews. who do i think he would turn off? the vast majority of people.... jewish or non-jewish. we are exceptions here, cause we already have a DEEP knowledge of the reality.... hence learn from his... more... - anonymouscomments
BTW atzmon largely contends the jews are *more* evil than everyone else. i think zionism, israel, and "israel firsters" are a major threat, if not the major threat, to us all. but if we are not nuanced, and slightly academic in our approach..... i think we will be less successul in waking "jews" up to the machinations of jewish *elites*. - anonymouscomments
"i think "disavowal" of atzmon is entirely defensible and a rational and expected move from most anyone in the movement for palestinian rights.....anyone agree?" I don't. - MRW
Anonynmous, you wrote: "BTW atzmon largely contends the jews are *more* evil than everyone else." Where does he say that? - MRW
also american- they are not concentration camps, which has a very specific meaning to most people, cause they generally come and go, *usually* with some "crime", but often not (of course, even when there is a "crime" i often disagree with the "justice" and the law in the first place... they are generally doing valid resistance for basic rights). i have met a few palestinians who were... more... - anonymouscomments
[MRW] well, gilad has his "categories" (3) of jews, which already is somewhat limited, and reductionist. he asserts how evil zionism is, and rightly so. but if you break down his categories of jews, the vast majority are in the group which serves the zionist cause in a very real manner... hence by definition the *vast* majority of jews are (actively) associated with what he essentially... more... - anonymouscomments
take this interview for example i think what i see as a failing, is that he does not give enough input to non-jewish xenophobes, fascists, ethnocentrics, orientalists, islamophobes, and war profiteers.... modes of being and political realities as old as can be (always stewing, even absent malevolent zionist pushing). for him it is almost always... more... - anonymouscomments his quote on "the protocols of the elders of zion" which took me aback- "because what we see in reality is far worse".... i have read the protocols, and martin luther's "the jew's and their lies"... and i see elements of truth in these odd works, whatever the origins of the ideas. i also see bigotry and the painting with a broad brush... more... - anonymouscomments
o.k. mous I do see your point. I guess the only reason I really disagree is, bottom line I don't think the movement with or without the Atzmons is going to be able to swing enough Jews on Israel or Isr-firstdom or 'in time' enough to be a large effective force before it's too late. I just can't see it...even if you got generally Israel supportive Jews in the US turned and riled up and... more... - American
american- i also agree jews are not going to turn it around.... they have had decades, and it just gets worse. non-jews, with some jews who have *zero* tribal bias (rare; atzmon, blankfort, j halper, etc.) will have to apply the pressure. but in the end, israelis themselves have to buckle under this pressure, partly by listening to us and even internalizing our outrage.... but they... more... - anonymouscomments
atzmon looks back in many ways, and is relentless at "self-hating" introspection, a noble task that needs to be done. but try to imagine past movements against oppression, and what the best mass-movement leaders focused on. they do not analyze and pick apart their opressor and tear into their deep and complex collective identities, and failings... this is an area fraught with... more... - anonymouscomments
anonymouscomments, you have repeated the complaint about Gilad's use of the concentration camp comparison. Did you read in his book about when he was in the Israeli army in Lebanon; went to an Israeli POW camp where prisoners were caged behind barbed wire in the burning sun, except for some who were being punished in solitary confinement? Solitary was a 3' X 4' concrete box with a metal... more... - Solon
You're right, Solon. Atzmon makes it clear in his book what changed him. Kinda' like how we're asked on MW today to accept that it was a video of a Palestinian child screaming Baba that radicalized his view of the I/P situation, this of course being more palatable. - MRW
solon/MRW- in the forward he notes seeing the *detention camps* in lebanon as a turning point, including those solitary confinement cages. he does make the whole jew/nazi comparison, namely as he is in uniform, and the clear brutal opressor. i don't deny that israel is in the nazi "position" in oh so many ways, including many aspects of the current ideology of zionism itself. however, i... more... - anonymouscomments
ALSO, i have friends and a few friends of friends who went though these "concentration camps". even these people do not refer to them as concentration camps. some clearly had experiences with torture and extreme deprivation. it is sick and criminal beyond belief, but i would not make very imperfect analogies to concentration camps, WWII style, which were in the end, death camps (and... more... - anonymouscomments
I've read Atzmon's articles for years, but I have no desire to read his books. At this point, I don't see a reason to go through yet another round of debating the words of yet another member of a movement for either side. Whatever Chomsky, Aztmon, or anyone else thinks doesn't really change the reality of the situation in Palestine or in the U.S. Many of the Zionists from the founding... more... - Todd
Anon, If you look into concentration camps, the Spanish had first created them in Cuba. They could not contain the rebel attacks so they rounded up the families and put them in concentrated camps. I see Gabriel Ash is using it as well. Message from within the largest concentration camp in history: "Gaza is Dying" - chu
Chu- I noted that, tell me what the ave person thinks and associates that with. This is fucking useless. - anonymouscomments from Android
mous.." but i would not make very imperfect analogies to concentration camps, WWII style, which were in the end, death camps (and that is the subtext many people will get with the word, despite the dictionary definition which is broad, ".....You cannot let the zionist 'own' the language. They do not own the words holocaust or concentration camps or genocide or ethnic cleansing. In a "war of words", which this struggle is, words are weapons. You don't win by doing nusance. - American
american- i sincerely beg to differ. i don't know who you think your intended audience is, or what language you think works best. but on my analysis from dealing with I/P for over a decade is that your average american is *turned off* by language which is not somewhat nuanced and makes the sloppy WW2 analogies. i do *not* hold back on calling out how nuts israel is, and how bad the... more... - anonymouscomments
mous...The audience I am referring to is the American audience, not the Jewish audience. And I am not talking about Atzmon specifically. But I am saying you have to give those not on the inside--and most of the public isn't, ---examples they can identify with, like concentration camp for Gaza, something that means something to them, a ''picture' they can see if you want to get their... more... - American
I've always believed that the crimes of Israel and her supporters should be reported as they are without inexact comparisons, and see no reason to believe that most people are too stupid or emotional not to correctly understand what has happened in Palestine and the U.S. It's also my opinion that comparing Israel's crimes to Jim Crow is an attempt to minimize Israel's crimes, while... more... - Todd
Todd, it's not a matter of most people 'being too stupid' to understand, its' a matter of how you first ''get their attention" to the issue or problem. Americans are bombarded with literally thousands of messages every day about 'issues'---how do you intend to get the Palestine issue singled out for them from all the other injustices and outrages they hear every day? mous is talking... more... - American
I see what you mean, American, but I would still rather see Israel's crimes presented as they are, and that's not going to happen until the people controlling the situation are exposed and attacked. I think most Americans understand that the Palestinians were aggressively removed from their land, and that that is what the issue is about. Perception isn't really the problem. I think that... more... - Todd
Todd, I agree the US public is 'aware" of the Israel issue in regard to the US -Isr relationship and opposes it as injurious to the US interest and their own. I also agree that US-Isr is due to overall corruption of US politics----money and elites and 'self serving' politicians. My debate with mous was centered just on I/P and how to use language to gain attention to the real story on... more... - American
I will say this because it is a well understood human phenomenon....people will always hate an enemy 'within" more than they will hate foreign enemy. Betrayal by one's own is always felt as more of a threat to survival than outsider attacks are. We see a lot of that in the Jewish infighting and excommunicating and character assassinations regarding Israel. - American
"but try to imagine past movements against oppression, and what the best mass-movement leaders focused on. they do not analyze and pick apart their opressor and tear into their deep and complex collective identities, and failings... this is an area fraught with complexity, and trap doors..mous".....The hell they don't. Study the European revolutions, particulary the French revolution.... more... - American
Sorry for butting in, American, it seems that I missed a few of the posts in the exchange. I don't know how the system will change, but it will. I just don't think that attacking the PTB over the Issue of Israel is the way to go, since that is where they are the most sensitive and guarded. The system in the U.S. is corrupt throughout and there are so many areas wide-open for criticism... more... - Todd
".The hell they don't. Study the European revolutions, particulary the French revolution. Look at Castro verus Batista. Look today at the Egyptian and Libyan. Whether it is 'the system" or "ruler', there is always a target that is exposed for it's failings by picking it apart and demonizing it to an extent..." One could even say that was done to WASPs, and especially white Southerners, in the U.S. by groups on the rise. The tactics are still very much in use today. - Todd
American- did the french revolution take its starting point as criticizing THE french (ie themselves)? did apartheid activists spend their days delving into white european issues (writ large)? atzmon is looking deep into failings of the jewish collective.... a needed exercise, especial among jews. but for palestinian activists, and most all of us, the focus is on the FACTS on the... more... - anonymouscomments
American (cont)- i also see you noting that we need to play on people's emotions, and perhaps the more reactionary and irrational parts of human nature. i think this is not needed, as the reality itself is very provocative and is able to sway any rational and justice minded person (they just need to see a bit of the facts), and already plays upon our emotional circuitry. we need to get... more... - anonymouscomments
i'm beginning to think you feel a rise in classical antisemitism is our eventual "cure" ..Well frankly I resent that accusation. And it is plain to me that you are having a conversation with yourself instead of paying attention to what I am saying. My conversation is about how to attract the public's attention to I/P and what language to use to describe it. As for the French Revolution,... more... - American
sorry for my unclear rambling words, and any mischaracterizations (and i retract any speculation that you want antisemitism to rise; in no way would i call you antisemitic, and i have even wavered myself on if there would be some benefit to a wave of hostility to the jewish collective and even antisemitism). i guess the bottom line is simply that we differ in opinion on what words and... more... - anonymouscomments
This is some of what I sent yesterday to a friend and critic of Atzmon who forwarded me Abumimah's letter. It indicates the degree to which he and some of the other signers, such as Massad, have been colonized by the Jewish activists who have played a major part in the movement but whose motives have never been questioned and who run from fear of being labeled antisemitic. So much so... more... - Jeff Blankfort
This is not to say that I don't have disagreements with Atzmon nor criticisms of his work and occasional poor judgment. But he has opened up an important conversation and put a name to something that needs to be discussed without fear within the Palestinian support movement, namely Jewish tribalism, and the success that those tribalists have had in determining the parameters of acceptable activity within the movement. Think of a Trojan Horse. - Jeff Blankfort
The Palestines have fallen into the Stockholm syndrome in accepting US Jewish activist as partners in their movements. Perhaps some US Jews involved in this aren't tainted by Israel firstdom, but it appears most of the Jewish leaders of this alliance are and are there to 'control' the discourse and activities. I don't keep up with the doings of this partnership because I don't think... more... - American
TRUTH and reconciliation. Alan Sabrosky has an approach to one 'truth.' David Irving thinks he presents another set of truths. The fact that both Sabrosky and Irving are viciously attacked and silenced suggests to me that they have struck a nerve. If what people like Sabrosky and Irving (I'm merely using their names/activities as examples; no endorsement implied) say can be demolished... more... - Solon
I think there is a parallel as clear as day between the boycott imposed on Germany in 1916 (that killed 750,000); Germany in 1933 (with the goal of destroying Germany); and the sanctions imposed on Iraq (that killed half a million) and Iran (with the goal of destroying Iran). By the same groups. - Solon
In a comment above American sounded a note that is Alison Weir's theme -- "If Americans Knew." If Americans Knew that zionists "triumphed" in WWI (did you notice Ben Gurion's allusion to WWI in the 1937 letter to his son?), thereby bringing on WWII, in which many of our fathers, brothers, uncles died or were permanently injured, etc., do you think some fundamental attitudes would start to change? I think the larger problem would be how to create a 'soft landing' for zionists in US. - Solon
Jeff Blankfort, several years ago I heard Mike Evans (an odious character) on Jim Bohannon, say, "He who frames the argument wins the debate." Yup. We have got to stretch that frame. We know what American zionist elites want to keep out of the picture -- all those concepts and historical facts that are censored and even criminalized; there is a reason nobody wants to lift the corners on... more... - Solon
American, Occupy AIPAC is not as brave as you want to believe. Phyllis Bennis is definitely a gatekeeper. Medea Benjamin is creative and likes to rouse the rabble, but basically, she's a gatekeeper. Street theater is not going to take down AIPAC. You don't see AIPAC shouting on street corners, do you? They don't bother making fools of themselves and going hoarse; they speak softly to power brokers over dinner, in cushy offices. - Solon
American, but I agree with you that OWS might show some promise, but they must turn themselves into street-based educators. They need to develop some Sinclair Lewises and Thomas Paines and Harriet Beecher Stowes. OWS needs an appealing intellectual core. Glenn Greenwald and Chris Hedges are tuned in. - Solon
An upstate NY Benedictine Monastery monk (Brother Peter Dimond of the Most Holy Family Monastery, Fillmore, NY) made an *amazingly* good video on voter fraud. This one is family-friendly and should be sent to everyone you know who sits in front of FOX or CNN and believes.
Sheldon Adelson gave $5 million to Gingrich on January 6, 2012. The South Carolina primary was Saturday, January 21, 2012 (Gingrich won). Miriam Adelson gave another $5 million to Gingrich the day after the SC primary. It was announced in the press on Monday, January 23, 2012. - MRW
It's always a battle between democracy and wealthy influential pockets. "During the Jacksonian era, some of the first attempts were made by corporations to influence politicians. Jackson claimed that his charter battle against the Second Bank of the United States was one of the great struggles between democracy and the money power. The Bank of the United States in turn spent over $40,000 from 1830 to 1832 in an effort to stop Andrew Jackson's re-election" - Chu
Chu, the real history of that is fascinating. The British Colonies used paper money they issued themselves called Colonial Scrip until 1764. Benjamin Franklin wrote that they were the most prosperous country in the world as a result. He went to England (1763) and saw horrific poverty in a country he expected to be more prosperous than the colonies were. The British were shocked that he... more... - MRW
MRW, that's interesting. I know that there were poorhouses in the U.S. in the early 1800s, but I always thought that the practice started in early colonial times. There was at least some dumping of debtors and indigents into the colonies, were they sold into indentured servitude so that they wouldn't be a burden? - Todd
Fascinating MRW.....I .never knew those details. - American
They eliminated poorhouses when the British colonies adopted Colonial Scrip around 1723. Paper money made them prosperous. As Franklin said, everyone was his own banker. You didn't have to go to a bank to get 'money', meaning turning it in for gold or silver. - MRW
One way to tell if the federal-level politician you are listening or talking to knows what he or she is talking about is if you hear the phrase: "We have to balance our budget." You hear that (at the federal, not the state level), you know you're dealing with an idiot. As secret document changes show (about 10 days ago), Larry Summers cut back Christina Romer's $1.7 trillion... more... - MRW
So what you are saying is that corruption and poor decision making are what is ruining the economy rather than a lack of money and resources? Understanding how the system works is one thing, but the theories always go off the rails when you start placing values on currencies and commodities. It all starts to get a bit arbitrary to me at that point. - Todd
Not only corruption and poor decision making, but a shared sense of what we want to accomplish as a goddam society. Fix the infrastructure. Build high speed trains. Educate our kids properly. Get research going, (and separate science from politics and finance as the AGW campaign is doing). Solve the foreclosure issue, which you can do in a week if you understand the issues. Stop lying... more... - MRW
"when you start placing values on currencies and commodities" That's an aspect of doing business and creating sales. We have a floating currency. That takes care of the value outside our shores. I am talking domestically. The people who really understand how this system works are gaming it right now. What we need is massive regulation of the things they are getting away with, and by... more... - MRW
Dr. Black calls them "control frauds," frauds committed by those in control, in the C Suite. - MRW
It's obvious that the people running the system are gaming it. I think most people understand that corruption from the top is a problem that goes unpunished. Americans already spend a fortune on education and get little for it, the same is probably true for infrastructure. Corruption is an issue in both cases. I don't know if there is a way to get Americans on the same page. I think... more... - Todd
"That's an aspect of doing business and creating sales. We have a floating currency. That takes care of the value outside our shores. I am talking domestically." I understand that on the level of a barter or simple exchange. The issue becomes clouded when you speak rational markets and creating value. It's sometimes like debating what reality is. - Todd
Todd, listen to this. It's starts at 1:32:30, last 26 minutes, or so, of the show. - MRW
MRW, I'm not unfamiliar with the things that Moosler said. I just can't see why that system would work indefinitely. In the earlier example you gave of the colonies, the currency act allowed for currency manipulation, but I have to think that somewhere in Moosler's system that something has to have value somewhere down the line, and is arbitrary or open to manipulation. Can you just... more... - Todd
Todd, just came in from a night of drinking with my buddies at the bar. Will try to answer you tomorrow if head isn't too thick. otherwise, it's Sunday. ;-) In the meantime, think macro., so to speak. It took me three years to wrap my head around this, and I HAD TO CALL THE FED TO SEE IF THIS WAS TRUE. It was. I sat devastated by my own stupidity for months trying to understand a... more... - MRW
MRW, if you have time, I'm still interested in your views. - Todd
MRW, I hate to pester you, but I am curious about your views. Europe is pretty much paralyzed at the moment due to a debt crisis. Do you believe that German politicians and finance ministers don't understand how the monetary system works, or are they raising false alarms over debt as a strategy? - Todd
todd- MRW is unable to log into FF for some reason, he wanted me to pass that on to you as he couldn't (i have him on email). i believe he intends to respond when he gets FF worked out or something along those lines... but not sure what his plan is, as he just wanted me to pass on his FF issue. - anonymouscomments
Thanks, anon. - Todd
Sean McBride
Main suspect in Toulouse attack reportedly arrested | JTA - Jewish & Israel News -
"The main suspect in the shooting attack on a Jewish school in Toulouse reportedly was arrested in France following a 12-hour standoff with police. Wednesday's arrest of Mohammed Merah, a 24-year-old French national of Algerian descent who claims ties to al-Qaida, came just hours after thousands attended the funeral in Jerusalem of the attack's four victims. Merah was arrested at his home in Toulouse following the standoff, according to French television. Merah reportedly has been known to French intelligence for many years." - Sean McBride from Bookmarklet
If this story proves to be true, this incident is going to provide a huge propaganda opportunity for the Israeli government and the entire Likud/neoconservative agenda, which has been agitating for a generalized cultural (and military) war between "the West" and the entire Muslim world. They will run with this like crazy -- and it may feed into the campaign to attack Iran. - Sean McBride
This story is all over the map: "French authorities deny report that alleged Toulouse shooter was arrested" Weird. The title of the original article has already been scrubbed from JTA. - Sean McBride
Note that there was a heightened terror alert. from NY: Increased security at local synagogues has been seen in New York City. NYPD deputy commissioner Paul Browne told CBS News by email that even though there is no increased risk for Jewish Americans, the department decided to provide more officers to communities and venues. "Although there is no known specific threat against New York... more... - chu
Chu, that reminds me of a comment I made once on MW when the discussion was about anti semitism to the effect that they would know that anti semitism was coming when people started saying...."without Jews in the US we wouldn 't be having these problems". Which I think is exactly how anti semitism here would begin if it ever did. People noticing and resenting all the extra things going... more... - American
American, it’s odd what goes on in Borough Park, Brooklyn. Orthodox Police are allowed to police their own neighborhood, and are separate from the NYPD (the Leiby Kletzky case exposed this). The NYPD keep a hands off policy unless they are requested by the orthodox. The neighborhood watchers are called shomrim. and the downside of it is Brooklyn Shomrim organizers have been accused of... more... - chu
Chu..sound like a breeding ground for all kinds of crime to me. - American
This is all bullshit. I am listening to NPR right now. They are allowing A FRENCH-ISRAELI RABBI TO URGE ALL JEWS TO LEAVE FRANCE NOW. NPR is giving this guy airtime, while burying that the shooter's story is changing hourly, and that they don't know who he is. What if he's just another Beivik? Three soldiers were killed last week by the guy, and two of the soldiers were Muslim. It is this sort of dishonest manipulation of the news that gets my ire up. NPR has access to Lexis-Nexis and the net. - MRW
NPR. what shite... what no talent hack is hosting this loon? - chu
Fine let them leave...but take their French voting rights or citizenship away. This reminds me of the conversation below about the zionist getting all the to Jews to gather in Israel and my wondering how they would maintain political control of the US if hordes of Jews it dawns on me...thru dual citizenship voting rights. US politicians would still have to pander to them and Israel except they would be doing it in Israel. Even more of a nightmare for the US and the world. - American
American, I can't see dual citizenship voting rights being an issue. What dual citizenship does allow, in the U.S., if not France, are campaign contributions and financial influence in the major media corporations. This would not play if it was China. Or UAE. - Philemon
American: I can't see dual citizenship voting rights being an issue. Campaign contributions and financial investment in the major media corporations, on the other hand, could be an issue. IANAL! - Philemon
"French gunman Mohamed Merah, who killed three soldiers and four Jews in France in the last two weeks, had been on a trip to Israel in the past, France's Le Monde newspaper reported Thursday. According to the report, Merah's passport had Israeli stamps in it. The purpose of his visit is not known, but analysts suspect he was either trying to visit the Palestinian territories or do reconnaissance to plan a terror attack." - chu
Or he worked for them. - MRW
NPR introducing another tack -- AlQaeda is so yesterday, the new focus of unnamed intelligence "experts" is state-sponsored terrorism and, Iran, (wait for it) "the leading state sponsor of terrorism." - godot
does anyone think this might be THE MAJOR reason jeffrey blankfort was banned? perhaps...
i don't think some at MW want truthers as contributors, and especially not the type that confidently points a finger right at the mossad/israeli/zionist role. - anonymouscomments
Of course. - mark e
I think it's wrong to point fingers at anyone right now. We know what happened: towers fell, 3,000 dead, etc. We don't know how. The how comes second in any real scientific investigation. The how leads to the rest: suspects (perps) and motives. I think the injection of mossad/israeli/zionist into truther blogs could be deliberate, to sway people from demanding the HOW be investigated... more... - MRW
Here's another one where you can hear the "pops." Youtube: "EXPLOSIVE TESTIMONY! / MacQueen NYFD 9/11 witnesses" - MRW
The advantage of extreme hierarchical societies, like which are found in the USA, Israel and much of Europe now, is the compartmentalization that it allows, and reinforces. Not a lot of people need to know what they are doing. Those at the top do, of course, but most of the rest need only follow orders to accomplish even very complicated tasks. - mark e
Another keeper video: - MRW
As I wrote to Blankfort on that MW post, I saw and heard all this on 9/11. The five dancing Israelis, the passport, the two white vans with explosives and box-cutters, reports of the plane painted on a truck downtown with explosives inside, Jamie McIntrye saying no plane plowed into the Pentagon, and the split screen at the Cleveland airport. My local channels were picking up feeds from... more... - MRW
Fred Burks runs This 58-page report on 9/11 motive was on his site: some unbelievable footnoted research. You can go to and use their search engine for 911 stuff to find the author and the shortened form of this. The pdf link is: - MRW
MRW, are you interested in helping to construct ? - anonymouscomments
Have you looked at SeptemberClues? The photographic record makes no sense. There are ludicrous anomalies. Even Mooser was all over it. Given the saturation of Hollywood and the news media with Israel-firsters, it's not surprising. And even my mother isn't buying the propaganda. It isn't playing in Peoria. Islam bashing is only flying with the Johnny come lately Air Force troops, and even they are getting push-back. The Marines know better. - Philemon
philemon- your link is disnfo, though perhaps many who support such lines of thought are sincere, including some who created the crappy website and "research". i do not know if you are sincere(ly and idiot), or a disinfo agent. either way, that website is bunk and a total distraction. it also is likely meant as a strawman website for 9/11 "skeptics" to point at to discredit the more... more... - anonymouscomments
anonymouscomments, just saw your request for help constructing Unfortunately I don't have the time, but I would gladly contribute things that might be of interest....which is the reason why I gave you those links to the videos. ;-) - MRW
PART 1 (DECIDED TO BREAK THIS UP FOR READABILITY)…Anonymouscomments: the reason why that 59-page report on Fred Burks' site is of interest is BECAUSE of who Burks is. He was the private translator/interpreter for Clinton and George W Bush (maybe Bush Pere?) in meetings with foreign leaders. Just Burks, the Prez, the foreign leader, and the other translator. Look at who his team is:... more... - MRW
PART 2 …Burks is also thorough, a quality I appreciate. I haven't finished reading the's one of those things I'm leaving to savor, but I want to get it on my Kindle so I can track annotations. I've heard about these intricate financial dealings from other quarters. The Indian head of the IPCC (don't remember his name) was involved with the guy from Cantor Fitzgerald who had... more... - MRW
PART 3…The Cantor Fitzgerald financial computer whiz guy died on 9/11. Mr IPCC has a copy, I believe the only extant copy. [The game also involved convincing reluctant countries, governments, and mission-critical influencers the threat was real.] Thomas Barnett of The Pentagon Map fame has been giving talks about how he and his military strategy group were advising Cantor Fitzgerald on... more... - MRW
PART 4…Barnett was told by the US Naval War College (R.I.) in late 2003 or 2004 to make a choice between writing books and being famous or returning to strictly teaching. He chose fame. EDIT: anonymouscomments, in keeping with what I just wrote, here is the opening paragraph from some guy who transcribed one of Barnett's talks to a military group. - MRW
PART 5…BEGIN QUOTE. The following is a transcript that I prepared from watching Thomas Barnett's presentation titled 'Military In The 21 Century' on C-Span. The transcript is long - 10 web pages, but the content of his message was so important that I was compelled to transcribe it. Barnett describes the silent war, the objectives, and the reasons. He is military strategist in the Office... more... - MRW
PART 6...(I know nothing about the destruction of America part. That's his opinion.) ANOTHER EDIT: Barnett is one of the most unctuous, obnoxious bastards I've ever listened to. If you can catch a video of this guy--C-SPAN will have it--just listen to the opening five minutes. Just for the record, I was so pissed off after listening to this talk two years ago, I ordered the DVD from C-SPAN. - MRW
Vacationing in Canada for a long weekend, but thanks MRW, I'll be looking into your angles when I can (however for the website I'm trying to keep it simple.... Namely show it was a cont. demo false flag... The motives and bigger picture are so complex and multifaceted and disputed, I'd loose people [and myself] and I wouldn't even offer anything unique if I went down that road). I'd be... more... - anonymouscomments
As i get inspired, I'll email them to you. I am two months behind on a project and feeling the heat. Where are you? Western or Eastern Canada? Hope it's Vancouver area. ;-) Although I hear it's raining continuously. - MRW
Anonymouscomments: You seem very convinced that SeptemberClues is disinformation, whatever that may mean in the context. Do you have specific information to share, or is that just your opinion? Admittedly, I don't find media fakery or complicity in propaganda that much of a stretch. - Philemon
philemon... i can't even begin to start taking that link apart, because so much is so absurd, unsubstantiated, and does not even make rational sense. let me just state that i live in boston, and know people who were in manhatten that day. also, there *are* many independent recordings and photographs, which fit with the news casts, and the observations of.... ~a million people. but the... more... - anonymouscomments
philemon- also, if you are sincere, which i think is possible, i suggest you step back and take in the big picture. the strings of control are immense, and worse than any "normal" person would think. but do not leave reality and start going down unsubstantiated conceptions of our reality, and what is feasible, and what is *supported*. there is disinformation out there, but there are... more... - anonymouscomments
It is standard operating procedure for intel services to flood the world with bogus conspiracy theores to create confusion and distractions regarding real conspiratorial ops. The basic rule for conspiracy research (which is really of a form of journalistic or historical research), as opposed to conspiracy theorizing: FOLLOW THE FACTS. (One should should also follow the money.) - Sean McBride
Gordon Duff, Veteran's Today, is highlighting the first 23 pages (preface) of an ebook by Jeff Prager on use of nukes in 911 dust. According to a cited 2008 paper by a Purdue University nuclear scientist, nukes are now nano technology, which Duff likens to size of a coke can. Prager uses the USGS 2011 study of the 911 dust (cited and online) and another 2010 study (cited and online) of... more... - MRW
MRW- i went to a talk where mark basile talked (scientist who did some low level work on the red-gray chips; works for an HPLC company i use at my biotech). i'm of the opinion that some conventional explosives combined with thermite/thermate and slightly explosive nano-thermite are the most likely culprits; much fits with this theory in the video, the dust/rubble, and even the existing... more... - anonymouscomments
Prager wrote a book called Dust Part 1 last year. I just downloaded the parts and skimmed. He goes into the USGS dust findings. Pages 1-83: Pages 84-141: Pages 142-173: Pages 174-250: more... - MRW
If you dont mind my asking... where do you find the time? Same goes for many here following IP. You all seem like reg people with full enough lives yet possess levels are knowledge and commentary frequency that almost requires full time input. And also, thanks much for the links MRW. - anonymouscomments from Android
I shovel everything I can onto my Kindle, or use a great (GREAT) app called Public Drive on my iPad. (You don't have to use iTunes to add anything to an iPad, iPod, or iPhone. Some Chinese kid invented it; it's brilliant.) Then I go to my reading space of choice: the bar, and read for hours on end. There's noise, I don't talk to anyone (I'll be 86'd if I start any more political... more... - MRW
MRW- i suggest stash for the ipad for keeping hidden PDFs (and even other things...) on your ipad. one cool thing as well is that you can very easily save most scribd files as a PDF for free with no account. just go to the scribd file on the ipad, which will often redirect to a PDF due to ipad limitations. then open the PDF in stash and it gets saved (sync stash to get the files off the... more... - anonymouscomments
GREAT SUGGESTION anon. I'm a Scribd member and I hate that I have to pay to get what I want when the person who put it up wanted it to be freely available. I have no quarrel when the member charges (as most lawyers do). - MRW
Public radio station fires editor who dared to speak out about Israel’s ‘brutal military occupation’ -
Ugly news about the American discourse, and the role of the Israel lobby inside liberal institutions. A longtime editor at a public radio station in Baltimore has been fired in part because he questioned US pandering to Israel. David Zurawik … Continue reading →
This will have repercussions in the black community because of WHAT he was fired over. - MRW
I sent an email to the President and program directors of WYPR on; bienstock@wypr;org Told them when this Israeli Gestapo regime in the US ended we will still remember those in the media who aided and abetted it. - American
Sean McBride
Obama, GOP won't Tell Americans that Iran Sanctions drive Gas Prices | Informed Comment -
"US politicians won’t say it. But Christine Lagarde, the head of the International Monetary Fund, has made it clear that the Israeli-US campaign against Iran, into which they have dragooned Europe, could put up petroleum prices by as much as 30% and endanger the world economic recovery. Likewise, India has lashed out at the US Israel lobbies for what it sees as a smear campaign and unrealistic pressure on Delhi to cut off imports of petroleum from Iran. Back in the US, you can’t mention the elephant in the room or else the Neocons will accuse you of foaming at the mouth (they are the ones who are actually frothing)." - Sean McBride from Bookmarklet
"That we’re paying a premium for the conflict in Iran is being dishonestly ignored. Obama needs to explain this fact to the people, or he is putting his second term in jeopardy." - Sean McBride
Who's playing the futures on this? - MRW
One crazed murderer sparks Zionist calls for European migration to Israel -
This doesn't seem very logical. But it's the ideology of Zionism, we can't integrate in the west. From the Times of Israel: [Member of Knessed] Ya’akov Katz called Monday for Jews to leave France in the wake of a deadly … Continue reading →
A news blackout in Israel that he killed two Muslims too. Wonder how many Pals the settlers will kill in retaliation. - MRW
The video that pushed Peter Beinart to speak out against the occupation -
Peter Beinart identifies an internet video of a Palestinian child crying for his father as a tipping point in his decision to speak out against the occupation.
Guess the burnt children (white phosphorous) in January 2009 didn't cut it for him. No one called out Baba. - MRW
UN report on Israel is the ‘most cutting recognition and condemnation of a legal system of segregation since apartheid South Africa’ -
Using unprecedented strong language, the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD) criticized Israeli policies in terms of “apartheid”, as part of their published observations following a regular review.
How long until we hear 'delegitimization'? - MRW
Half of Gaza’s ambulances and fire trucks are at a standstill due to fuel crisis -
The Committee for Ambulance and Emergency in Gaza announced Wednesday that 50% of ambulances and fire trucks stopped working as the fuel crisis in the Gaza Strip have worsened.
I wonder if Beinart can react to this. Probably not. He doesn't own an ambulance, does he? - MRW
Danaa's excellent comment on Beinart and how Israelis don't really give a damn what he thinks (as long as he distracts) underscores the self-congratulatory but ineffective results of Jews-for-Pals activists.
Thanks MRW. Sweet of you to commend, but it was just a rant [OK, one of the better ones]. Agree with what you say, too. I wish I didn't feel compelled to do that looking through the glass darkly bit. Anything you know I could cheer for (could to learn to chant instead of rant in a jiffy)? - Danaa
Rants are much mo' bettah. EDIT: You're not "looking through the glass darkly." You're cleaning one line of sight through the dirty glass. Everyone else is looking at it and seeing (admiring) their reflections. - MRW
Where did the comments go? - MRW
MRW -- which comments where? - Sean McBride
The goblins must be out. Now they're back. I s.w.e.a.r. they disappeared. Swear. ;-) - MRW
The Smearing of Aztmon -this is not an article, but an example
I went to order Aztmon's book at Amazon and was looking thru reviews and saw that whizbang!!...the article or letter or whatever Adam featured on MW was posted as a 'review of his book' ..on March 12th. Don't tell me there isn't a concerted campaign to smear this guy. I am disgusted that MW took part in or is part of this typical zio nazi tactic.. I should have the book in a week and want to see for myself exaclty what is that is so dangerous about him to the Jews. - American
Welcome to the world of zionist/Jewish supremacist smear tactics, American. These people are no different than hitler youth. - mark e
I think if Atzmon had not left Judaism and adopted Islam, much of that hatred he gets from Jewish people and sabbath goys wouldn't be there. They take it as total betrayal of the "tribe". Their chauvinistic intolerance basically proves what Atzmon says about the tribal mentality. The israelis take advantage of this tribal mentality every chance they get. This is why they have their... more... - mark e
For the record, I have no opinion on Gilad Atzmon, having never read him. Mark I just want to be clear here. Are you calling Ali Abunimah and Omar Barghouti "sabbath goys"? Do you doubt the integrity of the Palestinian signatories to the call for disavowal on all subjects or just when it comes to this one man? - GuiltyFeat
I think also that Atzmon is causing the left of the peace movemet to feel boxed in with the other Orthodox, and right wing groups, and they despise him for it. 'How dare he'... This is analogous to Democrats admonishing an Independent rep. in the house and it comes off as trite. They want Atzmon to heel, and of course his response was 'i will do nothing of the sort'. This letter seemed to backfire. I sort of cringed when it was posted and said 'not this again'. - Chu
Chu - It's not Atzmon who is boxing in this so-called left with the rightwingers, it's themselves who are doing it, by following totally corrupt leaders who have from the beginning worked to disempower the left. Due to sabotage of people like the signers of those smear letters, the left has been losing ground in the west, in fact, it's mostly gone now. The reason it is so easy for these... more... - mark e
mark you talk in vague threats. What exactly would you expect the Palestinians to do to Omar Barghouti now that he signed this letter? - GuiltyFeat
Chu...what you said sounds most correct to me. - American
I don't think name calling is helpful. From what I have seen and experienced in more than 40 years on this issue this political witch hunt is the predictable result of the fact that the Palestinian solidarity movement in the US has been dominated to an extraordinary degree by Jewish tribalists who have been able to stifle any overt criticism by Palestinian-Americans of the key role... more... - Jeff Blankfort
Very well said, Jeffrey. Kind of what I have been railing about - it's so obvious that there is a deflection exercise going on. Don't look here - where the good Jewish people of America are, look there - and only there - concentrate strictly on what Israel does. Ignoring the obvious - that israel does what it does and will continue to do so, as long as it has the complete support of the... more... - Danaa
I really appreciate you two (Jeff and Danaa) for your candor and straight-talking. [I realize they are the same thing, but there are nuances to both expressions/defintions.] - MRW
How many Palestinians does the Israeli Mossad currently have under its control? Probably thousands at least. They are easy targets for recruitment and manipulation. Many of them probably don't know who is pulling their strings. - Sean McBride
What all this always boils down to for me in terms of ending I/P and Isr'merica is this>>>1) 6 million Jews in the US, the largest groups of Jews outside of Israel, "generally" support Israel. 2) The "Zionist" head this support up. 3) And the Zionist have taken over congress and US policy and made Israel a platform of both US political parties. 4) And the Zionist control/influence of... more... - American
American - we have the internet, the zionists have not shut that down yet, though they are trying like mad to do so. We also have word of mouth. Talking to people, and reading what people write on the web, I believe that people are really fed up with Jewish zionist influence. Personally, I think the dam is close to bursting. - mark e
We can keep trying mark e, I think it helps. Stopped to gas my car earlier and got into conversation with woman who made remark about gas prices. She thought the US wanted to 'control' the ME oil, I disabused her of that idea by explaining why the US doesn't 'need to" control ME oil to get all the oil we want. I gave her the urls for mondo, Walt, raceforiran and AIPAC and told her if she 'really' wants to know why she is paying close to $5 a gal for gas to check it out. Maybe she will. - American
Helen Thomas was at Atzmon's first event in Washington, DC. Norman Mezvinsky, co-author with the late Israel Shahak, interviewed Atzmon. Atzmon appeared in the same church meeting room where the Occupy AIPAC conference had been held 10 days earlier. The difference was palpable: OccupyAIPAC is run by gatekeepers who lead a bit of cheerleading and, in my opinion, ineffective street... more... - Solon
American, you asked above, What can we do? What you can stop doing is censoring and name calling people like Landon who take certain facts to their logical conclusion -- a concept Sr. Luke taught us all some years ago. You and Sean call me a Nazi and a holocaust denier. Think about this for a minute -- Why is holocaust such a protected topic? If it is true as the Received Narrative... more... - Solon
Well Solon whoever you are, I didn't call Landon a nazi or a holocaust denier. I said he was "obsessed" with the past history---just as you are evidently. - American
American - Engdahl gives a pretty good run down of the reason behind the higher oil prices here: Why The Huge Spike in Oil Prices? "Peak Oil" or Wall Street Speculation? Guess which firm has a lot of influence in the corruption. ;) See also his older article here: ‘Perhaps 60% of today’s oil price is pure speculation’ - mark e
mark e I agree and think there has been sufficient proof that speculation in oil is just like speculation in any other commodity and the commodities market is speculation on what will happen, whether it is betting on what the weather will be that influences some crop production or whatever. In a lot of ways they are like serious odds gamblers on sports teams and games. I have a cousin... more... - American
Interesting info, American, I had not seen that way of going about the speculation described before. I imagine such is done frequently by the "little guys". Have you ever heard of a site called "The Oil Drum" ? It's a forum used by people in the energy businesses to "talk shop". There is a lot of bias of the sort one would expect of this kind of site, but often there is info that is useful, too. - mark e
mark e, Atzmon did not 'leave' Judaism and become Muslim. He left Israel, and considers himself a "Palestinian who speaks Hebrew;" in his book he discusses his great fondness for Arabic music and life perspective, but he did not become a Muslim. His first self definition is Humanist. - Solon
Bodies of French shooting victims land in Israel Israel criticizes EU official for comparing France Jewish school shooting to Gaza children deaths...
"Toulouse school shooting: same gun was used in killing of soldiers" BEGIN QUOTE. A gun used in a shooting at a Jewish school in south-west France was the same weapon used in the shooting dead of three French soldiers last week, police sources have said. . . . The soldiers who were shot were of north African and Caribbean origin. Two of them were Muslims. END QUOTE. - MRW
Oh jesus. A MW commenter highlighted a clip from The Guardian about the funerals in Israel for the Toulouse dead: BEGIN QUOTE. “The Jewish people face wild and insatiable animals, wild animals made crazy by their hatred,” the speaker of parliament, Reuben Rivlin, said in a eulogy at the burial site. END QUOTE. Anyone bother to mention the Muslim soldiers killed last week by the same gunman, according to French police? - MRW
That quote (posted by American) caught my eye also: I have been predicting for quite some time that the Islamophobia and xenophobia being energetically stirred up by neoconservatives (mostly Jewish neoconservatives) in Europe and "the West" would open the floodgates for white nationalism and anti-Semitism. Perhaps that is what they want -- this behavioral pattern -- in which the Pamela... more... - Sean McBride
MRW -- my thought also: apparently Muslim and African lives are of no consequence. - Sean McBride
All the Talmudic boogeymen. Gabriel Kolko (interview link above) was talking about the "nutty" religious faction coming to the fore in Israel. EDIT: I guess from the FF works, the link is now below. ;-) - MRW
See: "Toulouse Tragedy Shows Depth of Hatred: Officials Sowed Seeds of Violence Against Muslims and Jews" Stirring up white (and white Christian) xenophobia in Europe (and the United States) is a dangerous business indeed. So why are so many pro-Israel activists (many of them Jewish) playing that game? - Sean McBride
Ok -- the best information at the moment is that the shooter is a Muslim Arab. If this is the case, expect a major escalation of the Clash of Civilizations. - Sean McBride
SM- a major escalation due to a few french jews? perhaps... but i think it already was escalated with the million dead in iraq and afghanistan. and naturally any war on iran was planned before this. there are three major, future events, that i think will be the real escalations, and will result in western states acting more overtly as police states. (1) an attack/war on iran (2) the... more... - anonymouscomments
anonymouscomments -- all of your speculations are perfectly reasonable and are well inside the ballpark of what might actually happen. There is a rhythm and a tempo in the way the Clash of Civilizations is being carefully orchestrated from within neocon circles. - Sean McBride
" I have been predicting for quite some time that the Islamophobia and xenophobia being energetically stirred up by neoconservatives (mostly Jewish neoconservatives) in Europe and "the West" would open the floodgates for white nationalism and anti-Semitism....Sean McBride"'....I think you are right. When reading around about the Norway incident last year I noticed that there were... more... - American
anonymouscomments -- what is the end game here? To utterly crush and eradicate Muslim culture worldwide (probably with WMDs) and to drive all Muslims out of Greater Israel and "the West" (including Europe and the United States). They are not messing around -- they are deadly serious. And they have already achieved major successes in implementing their plan. - Sean McBride
American -- that is how I have been analyzing the situation -- it seems obvious. Since Zionists are seeking the ingathering of Jews from all around the world to Israel (and their exit from Europe and the United States), white nationalists and neo-Nazis will be quite happy to push along their agenda up to a point. At the moment, white nationalists and Jewish nationalists are using one another to achieve their separate objectives -- but they are hardly friends. - Sean McBride
I am trying to figure the end game myself. I know the end game for Israel in the ME is being the 'Supreme Hedgemon'..taking over the US's hedgemon position. Control of the ME is their game with Iran. I don't know how ridding Europe of Muslims fits with their hedgemon ambition in the ME though. But then again these Jewish supremacist aren't rational people, they have illusions of... more... - American
American -- it would be a huge mistake to assume that there is anything rational about messianic ethno-religious nationalists of any variety -- they are barking mad and extremely dangerous. - Sean McBride
The end game for many biblical and Abrahamic cultists (Jewish, Christian and Muslim) is to acquire absolute global domination through the application of massive violence. They want *total* control. You really need to think big in trying to understand their end game. - Sean McBride
I can see the Anglo-Christian supremacist formating a culture war to get Muslims out of their countries--they all want "Christian Identity Countries"..and secular Ethnic Nationalist joining them. But then the Jews will be next and the "Judeo" part of Christian will be dropped like a hot potato and the Jews banished to Israel to fulfill their prophecy for the religious. Then both the... more... - American
Reminds me, I met what I would call a ethnic and religious nationalist once. Was looking at some farm property and came across a guy who lived in a mobile home on the edge of the property. He was very hostile but I got a look at the inside of his trailer and he had a whole wall of computers, fax machine and etc.. He started talking all this sh**t to me and really wild. One afternoon... more... - American
American -- but wait: Zionists (especially Likud Zionists) share many of the same political objectives as white Christian nationalists -- they understand *precisely* what they are up to. From their standpoint, antisemitism down the line (and the exodus of Jews from Europe and the United States to Israel) is a bonus, the point of the exercise. They are not stupid -- they know what they are up to. - Sean McBride
O.K. but if they want all the Jews expelled to Israel, particulary from the US, they lose their political control of the US and it's power. That is if you believe as I do and most do, that Jewish influence within the US is the sole reason we support Israel to begin with. How do they plan to control or use the power of the US without that US Jewish domestic political element? - American
There is a rhythm and tempo to the management and unfolding of this script -- perhaps they are assuming that down the line they will no longer need American and European power to prop up Israel -- Moshiach will grant them rule over the entire planet. A crazy scenario, I know -- but these are not sane people. They are in the grip of magical thinking based on biblical myths and... more... - Sean McBride
I don't think they want Jews expelled from the west, as Zionism relies on political machinations from Zionists abroad in key countries. Only under some radically altered "new world order" might they feel comfortable losing much of the Jewish diaspora..... And at the same time, we have many Israeli nationals emigrating offsetting Jewish zealots coming into Israel from NYC, Canada and... more... - anonymouscomments
o.k. so are you saying even the secular non religious zionist are affected by these religious myths? Or are they more delusional about "ethnic or peoplehood Jewish supremacy" and therefore don't think rationally about how little power Israel alone would have except to destroy the ME with nukes? Since 90% of their activies are geared toward controlling the US thru the Jewish community... more... - American
I also think they (they being not just Zionists, but all states that seek control and corporations that seek to retain their dwindling captive audience) will come for the Internet as best they can, as the truth is out there. They may use blunt force, but they may also have a very clever corporate means of limiting the exposure people have. If ISPs start to offer select cheap packages,... more... - anonymouscomments
anon -- not a rant at all -- many interesting ideas -- I think you have most of this figured out. But again: don't assume that messianic ethno-religious nationalists are rational actors -- they are highly irrational and capable of pursuing self-contradictory impulses that make absolutely no sense and which will probably lead to their self-destruction. Messianic movements throughout history have typically imploded, often in spectacular ways. - Sean McBride
The rats I see I that wood pile mous are Saudi, Russia and China when talking about "US-Isr control of oil". I think when you get right down to it Saudi isn't going to allow that kind of zionist dominated US control because they know the zinonist nature would eventually make their Sunni Muslim kingdom next. Neither I think would UAE or the top producing oil countries. And neither would... more... - American
"Those against TPTB will be the new terrorists, and that seems to be the real goal in the end. [sorry, end of rant] - anonymouscomments "...If we believe the theory that human nature is alike regardless and the "nothing left to lose" of revolution's flashpoints---then in the sceniro you describe we have an Egypt style revolt in our future. - American
I did some research on revolutions once and the people who study them say they start in several ways; some incident occurs like the Tunisian man who immolated himself and there is a spontaneous uprising that brings forth some leaders who continue the revolt----or a charismatic" leader arises out of a discontented or oppressed population willing to follow him and a more stragetic... more... - American
"Creating a Warrior State -- The Enigma of Israel by GABRIEL KOLKO" - Counterpunch (h/t Dickerson, MW comments.) Historian Kolko worked in Israel in 1948, BTW. Think he speaks Hebrew, among the many languages he does speak and read.
Good interview on Antiwar Radio with Gabriel Kolko: - MRW
Sean McBride
Are Extra-judicial Killings a Form of Tikkun Olam? - (via
"In an op-ed published today by Rabbi Donniel Hartman, we learn that killing known terrorist leaders who have “blood on their hands,” and who have expressed a desire to continue their killing, is not only permitted under Jewish law, is not only commanded as a form of self-defense, but should be praised as an act of tikkun olam, of repairing the world." - Sean McBride
"Op-ed: Targeted killings of terror leaders are moral acts in line with Jewish value of self-defense." From the great democracy in the Middle East. Plain vigilante murderers. Jerry Haber is to be faulted for not calling it what it is, without twirling his shorthairs for 18 inches. He could do it in 140 characters or less. EDIT: As bad as the US, but Greenwald covers this better than I could. - MRW
"Holder: US can legally kill Americans in terror groups" March 5, 2012, MSNBC Which came first? The chicken or the egg? - MRW
This is where Atzmon's observation that "Jews do not have ethics" is pertinent. Atzmon explains that Jewish life revolves around observance of the 613 laws of Moses. This is a contract-driven system; there is not, within Judaism, a process for assessing the ethics of a situation because that is not what god required of Jews in order to collect the benefits promised. You can get a sense... more... - Solon
Solon -- did you also post here under "Landon"? And were you banned on Mondoweiss? - Sean McBride
Extra-judicial killings, moral good vr not moral good is a complicated question. In many ways it would be ideal if we could simply whack bad guys before they get their wars and terror off the ground. It would prevent chaos and innocent deaths. But how often are extra judicial killings done to actually "prevent" a imminent threat to someone(s). Name one. OBL didn't even "have to be"... more... - American
Just started reading about Roger Williams -- the American preacher at the other end of the spectrum from John Winthrop. It's early in the book, Williams is still learning at the 'feet' of Barrister Cook, and King Charles is opposing Commons' argument that Magna Carta guarantees the right of ALL persons to be secure in their person, their home -- "a man's home is his castle" -- and that... more... - Solon
Americans should realize that there is a difference between the way Jewish tradition treats morality and the way Christians do so. Jewish tradition involves Bible, rabbinic teaching, Talmud, etc. US tradition has a different historical base, in some cases radically different. Without making any judgments whatsoever as to which one is right and which one is wrong, American acts,... more... - Solon
Don't know about American morals I assume ours come from Chrisitanity and a few other principles. But American Law system in the original colonies was /is based the British "Black's Common Law." Our founders brought it with them from England. - American
on the other hand, American, Black's Law Dictionary was admitted by the Black family to be a hoax in 2003. This is amusing BEGIN QUOTE. Montreal, PQ (Reuters) - Sarah Medhurst (nee Black) shocked journalists and legal scholars at a press conference held at the Black family estate Monday when she revealed that Black's Law Dictionary, a highly regarded legal reference text, was originally... more... - MRW
There were those at the time, however, and I copied the above from a saved doc, who claimed this was a hoax of a hoax and that Black's Law LEGAL Dictionary was a different thing altogether. So, grain of salt on all of it, because I don't know. I DO remember this event, however. - MRW
Sean McBride
Peter Beinart calls on U.S. Jews, government to boycott settlements -
Peter Beinart calls on U.S. Jews, government to boycott settlements
"In an op-ed in the New York Times, Jewish author and journalist Peter Beinart calls on American Jews to boycott the settlements, while at the same time, rejects the Boycott, Divestments and Sanctions (BDS) campaign. According to Beinart, this is the only way to save the two-state solution. By expanding settlements, he says, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is pursuing a non-democratic version of a one-state solution – while BDS is pursuing a non-Jewish one. Beinart rejects both:" - Sean McBride from Bookmarklet
Beinart: "The Israeli government and the BDS movement are promoting radically different one-state visions, but together, they are sweeping the two-state solution into history’s dustbin. It’s time for a counteroffensive — a campaign to fortify the boundary that keeps alive the hope of a Jewish democratic state alongside a Palestinian one. And that counteroffensive must begin with language." - Sean McBride
Actually, I don't think this effort will get anywhere. I think we are witnessing the last gasp of liberal Zionism. Peter Beinart will probably end up as an anti-Zionist. - Sean McBride
Liberal Zionists like Shimon Peres, Dennis Ross, Thomas Friedman, Rahm Emanuel, David Axelrod and now Peter Beinart have helped to provide a distraction and a cover for relentless pro-Greater Israel policies that have faced no meaningful opposition within Israel or from the Israel lobby. Liberal Zionists have lost all credibility -- all pretty words, no effective deeds. - Sean McBride
"One of the important points Beinart makes in his Times op-ed addresses the financial support the U.S. government is giving the settlements through various tax breaks: BEGIN QUOTE We should lobby to exclude settler-produced goods from America’s free-trade deal with Israel. We should push to end Internal Revenue Service policies that allow Americans to make tax-deductible gifts to... more... - Sean McBride
"Finally, it is worth mentioning that had Beinart published his piece in Israel, he – and the paper that run it – would have risked being sued by anyone who saw himself financially hurt by this call. Under Israel’s new Boycott Law, they could be forced to pay up to 30,000 NIS (8,000 USD) without the plaintiff having to prove damages. The boycott law is an attack on freedom of speech and... more... - Sean McBride
Hostage's response was best: - MRW
Hostage BEGIN QUOTE (I like this, Sean) So we are going to have two BDS movements with different objectives regarding equal rights for Palestinians and refugees from Israel? Beinart is still deliberately whitewashing illegal forms of segregation, discrimination, and population displacement inside the Green Line (i.e. Israel and East Jerusalem). I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again:... more... - MRW
Beinart is as transparent as glass. Anyone who can't see the holes in his reasoning/motives needs some further education. - American
Hostage is arguably the most impressive commenter on Mondoweiss, don't you think? A total straight shooter, always civil, and in command of an amazing array of facts. - Sean McBride
Add Beinart's publishing house and PR company. Name on non-Jewish author who has had his way paved for him like that. Shades of pre-1933 Germany and Austria. - MRW
Hostage is US Military, a retired USAF officer, and argues consistently from an American values POV, as does Blankfort. I think, but don't hold me to it, I think that Hostage was JAG as well. That's where his prodigious knowledge of international law comes from. - MRW
I have quit even reading the so called liberal zionist, it's an insult to my intelligence and everyone elses. I just skim the rebuttals. Only thing I see left out of debunking is the fact that some countries already 'try to" boycott settler goods and I say 'try to" because everything shipped out of Israel is 'shipped out of Israel and 'labeled" by think these incurable liars and greed mongers don't mislabel settler goods for export? Sure they do. - American
I heard an interview with Lawrence (Laurence?) Wilkerson on The Real News. He was Colin Powell's right hand man. He said that 92% of all US military officers pre-2000 have Masters degrees and above. It was required for promotion. He also said the rules have relaxed since then; Rumsfeld's doing. I hope they reverse that. Forbes Magazine in reporting the best schools in the country put... more... - MRW
American, combine that with Grant Smith's excellent, excellent presentation on the Israel Free Trade Agreement of 1985 and you get a potent picture of what is being done. - MRW
I am a big fan of Lawrence Wilkerson -- he is in the same intellectual (and ethical) class as Hostage. - Sean McBride
I don't know how Hostage has the patience to hang in there in the face of so much ignorance and trollism...can't admire him and his determined intelligence enough. - American
He gave a hint two weeks ago. He loves the fight. - MRW
I wanted to send Hostage a case of scotch or beer when I read that his family, and he, despise Ari Fleischer. - MRW
Hostage on Ari Fleischer: BEGIN QUOTE. ROTFLMAO! Let's keep in mind that we are talking about Ari Fleischer, the propaganda apparatchik who thinks a true copy of an infant's birth certificate should have the baby's signature on it somewhere. END QUOTE. - MRW
Hostage on Ari Fleischer: BEGIN QUOTE. "Israeli citizen" is way too kind. Around my house we usually call Ari Fleischer and his neocon bosses "no good", "liars", and "sons-a-bitches". That's how the Bush White House team deserves to be remembered in the history books. FYI, Sourcewatch and a host of other sources still indicate the widespread belief that Fleischer is a dual US-Israel citizen. link to END QUOTE. - MRW
Check out this disgusting comment by Ronn Torossian: "Beinart is a shame to the Jewish community – a self-hating Jew. Beinart doesn’t represent the Jewish community any more than a black member of the KKK would represent African-Americans." - Sean McBride
A few points: 1. The Israel lobby (and the worldwide organized Jewish establishment) will probably take the same line as Ronn Torossian. 2. Torossian is claiming to speak not only for the Jewish establishment but for the Jewish COMMUNITY ("the Jews"). 3. I don't think there is the slightest chance to save Israel -- all the key demographic, ideological and political trends are pointing to a catastrophe as the climax of the Zionist narrative. - Sean McBride
Ari Fleischer is a member of Chabad-Lubavitch as I recall -- and Chabad-Lubavitch is saturated in racist ideas. During his tenure at the White House I always had the impression that Fleischer (and his cronies) were putting words in Bush's mind and mouth -- not the other way around. Bush was a puppet of the neocons -- they fed him his script. - Sean McBride
I don't trust Peter Beinart. This is good cop - bad cop for purposes of nothing more than stalling so Israel can steal. Where was he during the 8 year reign of Bill Clinton with the shell-game-without-a-pea peace talks for all 8 years and a doubling of Jewish settlers on the West Bank. - Berthe
I so don't care what various Jews, hawks or doves, pro or con have to say that I have given up reading them entirely. The only opinions I am interested in these days are objective American and other detached world opinions and in watching what the I-firster are "actually doing.". Every opinon of a Jew on Israel turns into being all about Jews and how either wonderful it is he says... more... - American
American -- I understand your exhaustion with obsessive ethnocentric dialogue about Mideast politics and Israel without regard to the interests and concerns of anyone outside the ethnic commune -- there is nothing remotely antisemitic about venting that frustration and weariness. But isn't it important for Jews and non-Jews to build as many solid alliances as possible in organizing against the titanic power of the Israel lobby? To focus on their shared values? - Sean McBride
Berthe -- good cop/bad cop -- yeah. We can now see in retrospect that this has been the game all along -- and Beinart is just trying to string the game along for a few more years while Israel continues to build racist Greater Israel. - Sean McBride
I will add this---I am far, far more suspicious of the One State Jewish advocates....some may be plain stupid or stupidly idealistic..but no doubt some probably most know that in One State all control and resources of Palestine would devolve to Israeli rule and control. And who would 'legally' create this One State, not likley the UN would and even if the UN did would Israel follow any... more... - American
Sean -- this went out the window when they banned Blankfort; it's a fools game to believe otherwise. Besides, alliances will be formed as they are needed. They're not needed now because as the present MW discourse shows, non-Jewish opinions are derided, definitely not-needed. "But isn't it important for Jews and non-Jews to build as many solid alliances as possible in organizing against... more... - MRW
I mean, who the hell is Beinart to tell the world that it doesn't need BDS. It's not his movement, and the Palestinians asked the world for its help in 2005. This was one of Atzmon's objections: that the British Jewish supposedly pro-Palestinian groups were dictating to the Palestinians what they could and could not say. - MRW
MRW -- 1. I feel like I have always been treated fairly and respectfully on Mondoweiss and I am obviously not Jewish -- nor have I been shy in expressing my opinions about Israel and Zionism. 2. Poor James Baker: that sector of the American power elite has continued to decline in power in recent decades -- AIPAC treats it with contempt and can easily steamroller it. - Sean McBride
Sean, a lot of time and energy will be wasted doing that and the fact is it hasn't achieved anything but some kind of 'isn't it sweet we are in this together." I see value in supporting some Jewish groups like Code Pink and JVP and I have supported them with donations.. But building some kind of coalition won't work. First, do you see any Jews asking non Jewish Americans to join them in... more... - American
SEAN -- I, too, have been treated fairly at MW. But I laughed whenever a Jewish homepage writer was lionized as brilliant! a genius! for something I had pointed out months before in the comments. Happened way more than once, let me tell you. I was on that board from Phil's NY Observer days, which makes it over eight years, and I have a long memory. - MRW
Sean, listen *very* carefully to Danaa when she writes about Jewish attitudes towards non-Jews. She's telling the goddam truth. (It's in another recent thread here.) I mean what does it take for us not to take her words at face value. She's right. And BTW, I noticed that the comment sections were closed in those two threads whenever Danaa went poking in there with her Americanized outrage. it was Danaa getting too close to the bone that appeared to do it, IMHO. - MRW
MRW, thanks for all the credit for getting that board closed, but surely I don't deserve that much! I think that what may have happened with the Atzmon thread (funny it always happens on threads where Atzmon is mentioned), is that Sean was blowing people out of the water pointing out that they failed to back up their assertions with a single quote(!) and then Hostage piped in, having... more... - Danaa
DANAA - It was your replies to Shmuel in the first instance that made it happen as well, as I recall. I don't have my comments PDF with me right now. I'm rolling around with my extra laptop. But I noticed the times of the last posts before it went down--and I have the time record because I saved in Mac OS as a .webarchive before it did go down (the thread was called Lull something). I... more... - MRW
yes, I know MRW - that last sentence of mine - behold the Great Battles of the Jews, as the Palestinians continue to get their teeth kicked in, and non-Jewish Americans keep being shunted to the little boys (and girls) corner, for having dared to speak "out of turn". Well, all I can say for myself is that if I didn't get a few kicks in here and there (and trust me, not just on line) I'd... more... - Danaa
Danaa- truth be known, I have a couple of Israeli friends who are a treasured antidote to US PC-ness. I am extremely comfortable with their bluntness because in our cases, it's a two-way street. If anyone ever heard our conversations they would lock us up for hate crimes, after they recoiled from all the swearing. Meantime, we're howling, and I think we do it to clear the pipes so that... more... - MRW
Another interesting thread with conversations that exceed anything on MW, particularly since Adam H came aboard. Not surprising to see his name on the statement by Jews and Judeophiles sending Atzmon to purgatory. Atzmon, despite some occasional errors in judgment, put a name to the problems that I have encountered since I started doing Palestinian work at the beginning of the 70s:... more... - Jeff Blankfort
One did not need the letters denouncing Atzmon to see what had happened. To this day, even in these difficult economic times, there has yet to be a nationwide campaign calling for an end to all forms of aid to Israel which even if it did not succeed, would contain a powerful educational component. The insidious role of the Jewish establishment is still largely off the table for the... more... - Jeff Blankfort
Jeff, I hope you use these notes you've written here as the basis for an article entitled, "What's Really Going On In the I/P Movement." You have just got to write this up formally and publish it. The 1988 history of the New Jewish Agenda was unknown to most of us--I'd say all--until you mentioned it in another thread here. This is valuable stuff. - MRW
Jeff, it's classic Leninism, isn't it: Be the Opposition. - MRW
Reading what you had to put up with Jeff makes me think you went through an Americanized version of the Boer War all by yourself. (Not sure who the Boers were fighting, so if wrong, take it as alliteration only.) ;-) - MRW
Danaa, translate a couple of the Israeli exchanges, just for shits and grins, as they say. - MRW
The best way to control the opposition is to create, fund and lead it. - Sean McBride
Jews involved, liberal or not, are not going to change anything about US-Isr subservience--which has to be changed 'first' to change I/P. (99%) of Jews attracted to and involved in this issue are still involved "for Israel" although a slightly different Israel. This is elementary. You're going to have to have American (first) voices in opposition to ever end Isr'merica. Period. - American
Nearly the entire Israeli and pro-Israel left has turned out to be a farce and a fraud -- a con game run by the Zionist establishment to try to cover up its racist Greater Israel policies with a fig leaf of well-intentioned enlightened liberalism. But there is absolutely nothing liberal or democratic about ethno-religious nationalist ideologies and movements. Ethno-religious... more... - Sean McBride
The main mission of the pro-Israel left has been to try to keep the civilized world off the back of Israel while it gets on with its racist and messianic program of ethnic cleansing in the cause of building biblical Greater Israel. And the scam has been remarkably successful: the pro-Israel left has been able to drag out the bogus Mideast "peace process" (actually a settlement-building... more... - Sean McBride
Read Kolko's article. I linked to it on MW Friendfeed. He is one of the smartest 20th C historians on war in the 20th C, and he was around when Israel was created. I mean physically there. He says Zionism is in deep trouble, ditto Israel. Kolko is retired now, but he has an enormous sweep of history: he lived it. - MRW
Please, Sean, you are talking about the new hero of 99% of the Jewish "antizionists" who is now being dragged over the coals by his fellow tribalists in a game that is designed to grab our attention. It is not precisely a carefully crafted stage show but it serves to maintain the delusion that the I-P issue as it involves the US is primarily a Jewish issue and that Jews have a... more... - Jeff Blankfort
Here is how the scam works: pro-Israel leftists acknowledge that the Israeli government is behaving very badly but counter with exclamations of their own good intentions. Supposedly their ineffectual and entirely useless good intentions are supposed to compensate somehow for the actual bad (and even criminal) behavior of the Israeli government. Is anyone taken in by this good cop/bad cop routine any longer? It's a crudely fraudulent operation. - Sean McBride
Jeff -- you need to collect all your writings and get them mounted on your own dedicated website -- they provide valuable analysis of what has been really going on with Mideast and Israeli politics. - Sean McBride
With regard to Chomsky -- would I be surprised to learn that he enjoys high status within Mossad -- perhaps even an official rank? Not at all. Often he appears to be part of the controlled opposition. Remember: the best way to control the opposition is to lead it and steer it in whatever direction you like. - Sean McBride
Jeff, I totally second Sean's suggestion. I have to look in five different files for the collection I have of your works. Would love to have it all in one place. As for the article on NJA, do you think MW will give it some front page space (just kidding...or, maybe not). Well, I am sure lots of publications will be interested. And I personally would love to have it somewhere so I can cite for a piece I am writing now. - Danaa
I agree with you both. Listening to Jeff over the years at MW has made me realize the Pro-Israel left's shell game. His wisdom, crushes the faux reality that the Pro Israel left wants to sell. - Chu
Danaa, my email is Phil is not about to publish anything of mine at this point, I suspect, even though my name appears among MWs authors from time to time to maintain the illusion that I am still part of MW. I'm not. Gotta dash now. - Jeff Blankfort
Who's Junior? Beinart? "Junior, El Finko and Bennis" - MRW
Beinart's like a junior senator for Big Media - full of b/s and just like the rest of the political phonies. - Chu
Junior is El Finko, who was on the way to the same cult status as Chumsky but shot himself in the foot in the video. Knowing the game plan, we can be sure it will heal and all will be forgiven. Is he not after all. the "American Radical?" Keep your barf bag supply handy. - Jeff Blankfort
Sean McBride
Rupert Murdoch is using Fox News to try to destroy an American president (Barack Obama) on behalf of the Israeli government.
And News Corp. appears to be a criminal enterprise from top to bottom. - Sean McBride
Mossad connections? Probably more than you can count. - Sean McBride
Seems I remember reading in Vanity Fair that Murdoch had a falling out with one of his sons over Israel and left the Murdoch empire. My impression is Murdoch is a man who likes 'to destroy' and wallow in sleeze ..maybe out of some deep seated inferitory or revenge complex of his own. Whatever, he's a perfect fit with the zionist. - American
How long ago, American? - MRW
I honestly don't remember MRW... Not 100% sure it was Vanity Fair but think it was...the sort of bio article of the kind VF does on controversial figures. It was before the Murdoch news UK scandal if that helps. - American
I read about it in the guardian, and I believe it was the ceo of news of the world, who took the fall for the scandal.... The good son who empathized with palestinians, may be the only one demolished from the scandal.... Hmmmm. How convienent. - anonymouscomments from Android
Read the para about a dinner on downing street... - anonymouscomments from Android
Establishment Jews attack Beinart over settlement boycott call -
Michael Oren says Peter Beinart is beyond the pale, while J Street rushes to distance itself from its star attraction this weekend
I'll bet he's getting hammered. I hope he can stand the onslaught. - MRW
He's getting Goldstoned. They'll harass and beat him into submission. - Sean McBride
"FCC decision strikes critical blow to right-wing radio dominance" This decision could have important ramifications:
BEGIN QUOTE. “Now these right-wing radio networks won’t keep getting their translator applications approved,” Renderos added. “That will severely limit their ability to expand.” The FCC’s decision also set clear criteria for community radio stations in heavily populated urban areas, which are otherwise bombarded by the endless droning of commercial media full of snide opinion masquerading as news. “These [new, low power] stations can only be licensed to non-profit organizations, and you can only have one per customer,” Brandy Doyle, policy director for the Prometheus Radio Project, told Raw Story. “That way we won’t have these big corporate chains and media networks that are taking over the rest of the media landscape moving in on low power FM service. These stations have to be local, and they have to be independent. This clears the way for a real transformation of the FM dial.” END QUOTE. - MRW
BEGIN QUOTE. Though the FCC’s decision may not sound all that important, it really is. For the first time in decades, Americans living in major cities will soon be hearing the voices of their friends and neighbors flooding the airwaves — a far cry from the typical morning DJ fart jokes and the same “top hit” songs endlessly droning on a looping playback. END QUOTE. - MRW
I am excited by this. I am a monster radio fan. According to brain studies, there are five processes from ear to brain, and 65 (or is it 85?) from eye to brain. What you hear has a far more powerful effect than what you see with fewer obstacles to comprehension. - MRW
Bye-bye NPR-power. - MRW
MRW, read this... got an email some days ago on something about NPR 'changing to "truth news"...I deleted it but found this referenece on the net. They say they are changing from presenting 'he said, she said' type coverage to calling spin spin when the facts confirm it. This can be good or bad depending on whether or not this is a set -up for more propaganda under the guise of truth. - American
Sean McBride
Is the term "Judeo-supremacist" an anti-Semitic, Judeophobic and anti-Jewish expression? An example of hate speech?
I think it definitely is because one enounters the term only among hardcore and aggressive anti-Semitic authors and websites. Try Googling it for yourself: - Sean McBride
The top hits are from Chris Moore's Moore is one of the most notorious antisemites on the Web -- the real deal -- we are not talking about Gilad Atzmon here, whom I strongly defended against the charge of anti-Semitism. Some other sources that appear in the Google search results for "Judeo-supremacists": Maurice Pinay, CODOH, and various fanatical Holocaust deniers and white supremacists. - Sean McBride
The issue came to my attention when I noticed these passages by mark e in comments in this group: 1. "Judeo-supremacy and zionism, while connected, are not the same thing" 2. "That's how Judeo-supremacism works" 3. "Wolman is only interested in continuing the the myths of Jewish victimhood and reinforcing how "special" Jewish people are. He is a Judeo-supremacist." - Sean McBride
These passages are appearing in combination with statements like this: 1. "the Jewish zionist run American media" 2. "There is very little now that doesn't come under Jewish zionist influence" - Sean McBride
Does anyone here think I am misreading this situation? (I think my judgments about Landon and IranContraScumDid911 were on the mark.) Do you want to defend the use of the term? Is it a term you use yourselves? American and MRW -- do you feel comfortable with this language? Do you think it helps or hurts the critique of Likud and Christian Zionism? - Sean McBride
If you don't think the language in the above comments is anti-Semitic, could you please provide some examples of language that you do think is anti-Semitic? For me the real giveaway is not just the specific words and terms but the enraged and brutal tone with which they are delivered -- the overall nasty and hate-filled rhetorical vibe. - Sean McBride
It's difficult to know what hate speech is, as it will likely evolve in time. Madrid on MW had a interesting comment about hate speech and it's future impact on Palestinian issues on US campuses. "Phil ought to read your post a few times (Aiman) before he condemns religion per... more... - Chu
Chu -- you wrote: "It's difficult to know what hate speech is." Really? Consider the words of IranContraScumDid911, someone whom mark e leaped to the defense of when I first criticized his handle: "ok, rice is a dumb n*gger, bush cheney and rumsfed are satanic goy frontmen for their neo conservative puppet masters. happy now? i think zhirinofsky said rice was a worthless black women who... more... - Sean McBride
That's a clear case of it, and tasteless and completely sloppy remark. What I should have said is that, it's difficult to know what will constitute hate crimes. I was surprised at the Ravi case verdict, with a sentence of 10 years. - Chu
O.K. as I understand this, ICS has a problem. Yea he does actually. And Sean is saying that thru his google data mining, which is searching words or phrases, expressions like Judeofascism and so on show up most in relation to or connected to neo nazis or anti semites or their sites. I would say there is probably something to that connection. But it may not be totally definitive. There... more... - American
Is the term white supremacist an example of anti-white hate speech? What about black supremacist? What is that an example of? I've met black and white supremacists. In each case you would be naming something real if you use the term. Do you claim that Jewish supremacists don't exist? You'd have to give me the definition that you are going by, but if you just substitute Jewish for white... more... - Todd
Chu -- 1. Hate speech is language that is designed to incite hostility, hatred and violence against entire cultural groups, especially races, ethnic groups and religious groups. 2. I am not arguing that hate speech should be censored or made illegal (I am as close to being a free speech absolutist as one can get) -- I am suggesting that hate speech should be strongly opposed, condemned and shunned. - Sean McBride
I'd also be curious to know if antisemite is an example of hate speech. That term is often used to threaten, silence and slander. What about white nationalist, is that hate speech? Christian extremist? How about Islamic terrorist or fundamentalist? Is the use of the term redneck an example of hate speech? That's an example of a crude ethnic or racial slur that is often thrown around... more... - Todd
Todd -- tell you what: use Google to turn up some examples of the strident use of the term "Judeo-supremacist" by someone who isn't an obsessed antisemite or Judeophobe. Let's see what you've got. I scanned more than 10 pages of Google search results on the expression and couldn't find a single example myself. Perhaps you will have better luck. - Sean McBride
So Google defines reality for us now? If so, the future looks really bright. - Todd
Todd -- my impression at this point is that you, mark e, IranContraScumDid911, Landon, Solon and others who share your intense hostility to Jews should start your own group. You and I are definitely not on the same page when it comes to analyzing Mideast politics, 9/11 or any other political subject. If you need any help in setting up a group on Friendfeed, I'll be happy to help you. - Sean McBride
I have much better insight now into why Mondoweiss has been forced to moderate its comments section with considerable vigilance -- antisemites are relentless in trying to sneak their agenda into discussions about Mideast politics. - Sean McBride
Todd -- Google provides the best index on the planet into how language is being used in the United States and worldwide. For students of sociolinguistics, political rhetoric and propaganda, it is an astonishingly powerful tool. I take it that you are admitting that you can't find any instances in which the strident use of the term "Judeo-supremacists" isn't associated with hardcore antisemitism. That is indeed the case. - Sean McBride
Sean, you didn't actually address my points. Do you claim that Jewish supremacists don't exist? I've met Jews who certainly fit the description if you use Jewish instead of white, black, Muslim, etc...How do you propose those people are discussed or dealt with? - Todd
This quote from mark e especially caught my eye: "Judeo-supremacy and zionism, while connected, are not the same thing." There it is in black and white: his argument isn't just with "the Zionists" -- it's with "the Judeo-supremacists" -- and the malice and fury behind his remarks certainly invite the suspicion that he is referring to "the Jews." - Sean McBride
Todd -- supremacists and chauvinists exist among all ethnic and most religious groups. But people who are focused on attacking "Judeo-supremacists" and "Judeo-supremacists" *only* are usually antisemites and Judeophobes. I can't think of any exceptions, in fact. Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer are obsessed with attacking "Islamic supremacists" -- and they are in fact fanatical Islamophobes whose personalities are controlled by psychotic levels of hate -- they sound like they are possessed by demons. - Sean McBride
If white supremacist can be used in American society, Judeo-Supremacist should be allowed as well. - Chu
Sean...Let me add one other thing about trying to identify anti semites, neo nazis, zio plants and etc. and using some venue like this feed as a rat laboratory to do it or study it. It's impossible to do with certainty or even on language due to all kinds of factors--education, happen stance of their reading or research, their own ethnic identity as in angry Arab or actual white bigot,... more... - American
“On a bad day when I have seen a picture of a Palestine with his head blown off or a dead 12 year old killed by the IDF I could let loose with every invective I have ever heard or come across to describe these cretins.” Great point. I know what you mean American. Sometimes one can write with a great amount of anger, and forget the rational calm debate that is often desired. Taxi is a great example or Chaos. - Chu
American -- if a real person or persona engages in a consistent pattern of hate speech and bigotry over several *years*, then I think we can safely assign the label of bigot to that voice (regardless of whether the person is a plant or not). By the way, the best way to uncover plants and ops on the Internet is to ask them to provide pointers to their past writings in recent years. If... more... - Sean McBride
Examining the term "Judeo" that is used in conjunction with Supremacist, "Judeo" appeared first in use with "Judeo-Christianity" in the late 1800's google data mining shows. From there is likely it's use to describe Jewish supremacist like White supremacist are identified. >><<< So far on Wiki there is no similar article on Judeo Supremacy. I... more... - American
American -- when I look at a large sample of instances of the use of the specific expression "Judeo-supremacists" in recent years, I encounter a solid wall of Judeophobia. With regard to new specific instances, look at the total field of discourse of the person who uses the expression and come to your own conclusions about the intent, agenda, attitude and value system behind the usage.... more... - Sean McBride
"Simple google data mining won't do it, won't expain how a human happen to pick it up or his source." I agree American. I even question why there would have to be a source for using the word. It seems natural to me that a person who supports views of Jewish supremacy would be called a Jewish or Judeo supremacist by anyone who crosses his path. What else would you call that person? Somehow, Martian supremacist doesn't fit. - Todd
Sean, here is a problem that I see with the terminology you are uncomfortable with: Jewish Superiority is what's actually taught in Israeli schools and aptly captures the way israelis feel. Furthermore, there is a large subset of jewish Americans who also feel Jews are superior to gentiles (all of them) and some that are so smug about it, they break out in a most unseemly song and dance... more... - Danaa
Danaa -- I understand that there are important strains of supremacist and chauvinist thought in some streams of the Jewish tradition -- I've read quite a bit of the reputable scholarship (mostly brilliant *Jewish* scholarship) on that subject. But I think one has to be really careful in approaching the subject and in the choice of one's language. One must use a scalpel, not a... more... - Sean McBride
Sean -- the term Judeo-supremacists is going to make a lot more sense in the coming days now that Hagee has anointed Netanhayu as Moses and King David. Hagee and his ilk put 'Judeo-' in front of everything, if you read their literature, like 'Judeo-Christian' for one. I say let it ride for a while. This little corner of the web is not getting any global flashlight on it. Policing words... more... - MRW
Todd, Chu, MRW, American - well said. I'm not a fan of wikipedia, but I think this entry is fairly descriptive of what has been happening on this site, in a rather extreme form. - mark e
I would say for myself my interest in the Israel issue >>'and therefore the Jewish or zionist angle'<<< aside from my outrage over I/P, is strictly political. I do think Israel firstdom totally controls our US Israel policy and controls in part some of our total ME policy. I do think our MSM is being controled or influenced by Israel first interest who and whatever they are. I think... more... - American
And let me tell all one other WILL have to destroy Israel firstdom to get the US back on the right track. That you can take to the bank. You will not be able to 'semi-control' it or "manage it", you will have to eradicate it from our political system. - American
American -- you don't have to destroy Israel firstdom, as you say. They are going to do it themselves by over-reaching. My attitude is the opposite: let's have more of it. ;-) I prefer the jujitsu approach, roll with their energy, make the opponent's weight bring him down. So feed the beast. ;-) - MRW
I think they will too MRW----I just want to make damn sure these Israeli first vampires get enough sunlight on them to burn them to ashes so they can't rise and come back again in this country. - American
American - "I just want to make damn sure these Israeli first vampires get enough sunlight on them to burn them to ashes so they can't rise and come back again in this country." That's how I feel. - mark e
"For individuals like mark e and todd, I think the jury is out." That's funny language in a way, Danaa. It's not like I committed a crime. For the most part, my views on this issue are based on a hatred of war, an understanding that my nation is being subverted by a tiny ethnic group in order to serve a foreign nation made up of their co-ethnics, and a clear understanding of the contempt that many Jews hold for non-Jews, which I have witnessed many times in person in the U.S. and in Israel. - Todd
My problem with some of your posts, Todd, is that you seem to be targeting Jews collectively as a group and are not paying much attention to the role of many non-Jews in creating these problems. Just so you know where I'm coming from. - Sean McBride
Listen all ....I have been thinking about this anti semitism issue, scare, whatever here. This is exactly why I have pushed for and stuck by using "Israel firster" as a description and thought Rosenberg backing off it was a very bad idea. We have to face facts. The Zionist are the first fact, the fact that Jews "in general" support Israel is the second one and in general means in... more... - American
"Judeo-supremacist" is a very valid term. that's my 2 cents, or one. i have them in my family, and in my extended family in israel. the term is more than valid for a slice of jews. just like white supremacists, or islamo-fascists (haven't met any in my travels, but i'm sure there are a few). judaism itself is tribal, which does not condemn those who happen to be born into it, or even... more... - anonymouscomments
anonymouscomments -- you, and others like you, can get away with using the term "Judeo-supremacists" because you are exercising it like a scalpel (not a blunderbuss), but the fact remains that according to Google-based content analysis the term is used most of the time by antisemites and Judeophobes. - Sean McBride
anonymouscomments -- I really enjoy your posts, by the way, including your recent remarks on Gilad Atzmon -- you get an A+ for coming up with a critique of Atzmon that was completely original and made me think, hmm, maybe you have a point. - Sean McBride
"My problem with some of your posts, Todd, is that you seem to be targeting Jews collectively as a group and are not paying much attention to the role of many non-Jews in creating these problems." I don't want to drag this on any longer, but I don't really think that is a fair comment. I do believe that Jews as a group are more monolithic and apt to cheerlead for their own group than... more... - Todd
Todd -- duly noted. - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
Permission to examine "Jewishness" - deLiberation -
"Imagine my astonishment when, many years later, in 2006, I read about Swedish peace-worker Tove Johansson’s experience. She was escorting Palestinian school-children past crowds of hostile Jewish settlers in Hebron, when the settlers began chanting “We killed Jesus, we’ll kill you, too.” They smashed a bottle over her face, causing severe injuries. There are also various other accounts of Jewish settlers proudly taking responsibility for the murder of Jesus, something that I had always assumed was a false accusation, leading me to investigate. I found in the writing of Jewish-Israeli scholar Israel Shahak that there is actually a Talmudic mandate for this claim. I also found that while it seems that relatively few Jews are aware of Shahak’s writing, many of those who are hate him passionately, although none have ever presented me with an actual argument confronting his claims." - Sean McBride from Bookmarklet
"Back in the 80’s in an interview on the American television show 60 Minutes, Mike Wallace confronted Meir Kahane, the infamous Brooklyn rabbi, now deceased, who became an Israeli Knesset member and an advocate for the expulsion of all Arabs from all of historic Palestine (both “Israeli Arabs” and Arabs living in the occupied territories), about a law he proposed. BEGIN QUOTE Wallace:... more... - Sean McBride
Ever hear about Gloria Jean D'Argenio? Kahane's goy mistress. - chu
Chu, thanks for that NYT link. Fascinating. The author's description of Kahane sounds like the complaints that Douglas Reed made in his 1939 chapter, 'How Odd of have Chosen the Jews'. Reed, who was a celebrated London Times reporter, author, and foreign correspondent, was subsequently silenced because of his reporting on Zionism and Jews, even though he was one of the first... more... - MRW
MRW...what prompted the revision of Auschwitz figures? Was there some new evidence or records produced? - American
American -- After the fall of the USSR in the 1989-1990 timeframe, Russia released the Auschwitz records and files (17 million pieces of paper) that General Zhukov, who liberated Auschwitz, took back with him to Moscow in 1945. They didn't want them to remain in German hands. Russia enjoyed watching Germany get it for WWII--don't have a link for this, but I believe its in Harper... more... - MRW
American -- it took me forever to find a copy of the plaque that said four million. here's one site that has it. It USED TO BE ON THE AUSCHWITZ MUSEUM SITE. Here's the Jewish Virtual Library asserting that the lowered figures are correct but it tries to whitewash that people claiming four million dead at Auschwitz before 1992 were always considered mistaken. - MRW
American -- more: Yehuda Bauer, "Fighting the Distortions," Jerusalem Post (Israel), Sept. 22, 1989; "Auschwitz Deaths Reduced to a Million," Daily Telegraph (London), July 17, 1990; "Poland Reduces Auschwitz Death Toll Estimate to 1 Million," The Washington Times, July 17, 1990. - MRW
Looks like you two will probably be next on SM's list. ;) Good luck guys. - mark e
mark e, this linked info. - MRW
MRW...thanks for link had never seen that but Jesus, gruesome site! ugh...brutal,brutal,brutal. If the records now show that 1 million instead of 4 died there that means 3 million have to be subtracted from the 6 million total. So why is the denying that 6 million died still one of the holocaust denial stipulations? It really doesn't matter in terms of sheer eviliness whether it was 3... more... - American
Who knows, American. Maybe because people would mention the number of dead in Vietnam or the Congo or something as exceeding that, which is true if the number is reduced to three million. Anyway, that's what Douglas Reed said and he was defamed as an anti-Semite for it after the war. - MRW
American, Yehuda Bauer was first out the door correcting some of these distortions as he called them in his JPost article. I have the link for it on my other computer. I don't know if you can find it now. Maybe you can. - MRW
The article on Permisison to Examine Jewishness is excellent. I think I am seeing what the intent of Gilad and others like him is to demolish the 'myths" Jews hold on to. He makes more and more sense to me because there are some myths that need debunking, we all know that. I don't get the sense he is doing it to either save the Jews or to hurt the Jews. I think he's a guy... more... - American
I think Gilad has a voracious appetite for uncovering the truth about the world. And, ironically (in this particular situation), that can be a very Jewish trait, although not exclusively a Jewish trait, of course. In a sense, he is on a noble Jewish path. - Sean McBride
mark e -- I am familiar with the details of these issues about Auschwitz that American and MRW are discussing in a reasonable way and which are based on historical facts -- there is nothing to object to here -- this is an important topic. The only list of mine that they would get on is my list of favorite contributors to discussions on Mideast politics on the Internet. I very occasionally disagree just a bit with their tone, but the substance of their comments is always rock solid and illuminating. - Sean McBride
Doesn't Atzmon have a philosophy degree? I thought I read that somewhere. - MRW
"Who knows, American. Maybe because people would mention the number of dead in Vietnam or the Congo or something as exceeding that, which is true if the number is reduced to three million." I once saw a documentary that claimed that one million Germans died at the hands of the Nazis for political reasons. I don't know if that number is exaggerated, but in a population of somewhere... more... - Todd
Eisenhower killed 1.2 million Germans after the war by starving them to death. I'll try to find the link. - MRW
I think an important number to keep in mind is that as many as 100 million innocent civilians may have been murdered by Marxist-Leninists in the 20th century (see The Black Book of Communism) -- and 20 million or more of them were murdered *before* the Holocaust, in the early phases of the Soviet Union. In some ways the Nazis modeled their criminal behavior after the Soviets. - Sean McBride
Here's the link to Eisenhower's Dirty Little Secret. This is the text version. I'll find the link to the images one. - MRW
Sean, read this: "Stalin's Jews -- We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish" - MRW
MRW -- it's a historical fact. Even the Israeli newspaper Ynet News will concede that. Truth is truth. - Sean McBride
From Ynet News: "We cannot know with certainty the number of deaths Cheka was responsible for in its various manifestations, but the number is surely at least 20 million, including victims of the forced collectivization, the hunger, large purges, expulsions, banishments, executions, and mass death at Gulags. Whole population strata were eliminated: Independent farmers, ethnic... more... - Sean McBride
Here is the Scribd scanned version of the Eisenhower article. You can see the pictures: - MRW
More: "Lenin, Stalin, and their successors could not have carried out their deeds without wide-scale cooperation of disciplined "terror officials," cruel interrogators, snitches, executioners, guards, judges, perverts, and many bleeding hearts who were members of the progressive Western Left and were deceived by the Soviet regime of horror and even provided it with a kosher certificate." - Sean McBride
More: "And us, the Jews? An Israeli student finishes high school without ever hearing the name "Genrikh Yagoda," the greatest Jewish murderer of the 20th Century, the GPU's deputy commander and the founder and commander of the NKVD. Yagoda diligently implemented Stalin's collectivization orders and is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people. His Jewish deputies... more... - Sean McBride
What Eisenhower did was despicable. can you image looking at some of those pictures and seeing your own father in them? - MRW
The first comment on the article: "YNET WENT TOO FAR !!!! WE WILL REMEMBER" (Check out all the comments -- fascinating, in terms of documenting the denial syndrome.) - Sean McBride
Denial is becoming so utterly tedious. We don't have time to hide the truth because someone's offended or wants their myths maintained. I just watched a great seven-minute segment with Wilkerson on The Real News from last December. He goes into this denial of reality business and gets frosted about it. - MRW
MRW, ...the real guy behind the plan to starve Germans and "break Germany into 30 small pastoral states' was Harry Morgenthau, Sec. of State The man who inspired Truman to later remark that Jews could be as vicious as the Nazis. Morgenthau was as evil and vicious as any Nazi you will ever come across, he just did his dirty work from a position in US government. Morgenthau formulated the... more... - American
BTW, Morganthau later resigned and became a financial advisor for Israel. - American
Speaking of Russia...this is where I was able to read the translated version of "200 Years Together" by Solzhenitsyn........ they have now disabled the translated chapters because some one is evidently trying to get it published in the US. However they do say that if you are a student or serious scholar they will make... more... - American
true enough...Morgenthau practicing talmudic vengeance. The simultaneous triumphs of Bolshevism in Moscow and Zionism in London in THE SAME WEEK of 1917. Reed had a handle on it and here is the story.... - flyod
I haven't looked at the links yet, but it must be Morgenthau II. Morgenthau I was US Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire in 1916. His letters home are in the London Times archives, and are fascinating about the cruelty of the Young Turks towards the Armenians, whom he accused in a letter to President Wilson (LT archives) of studying medieval methods of torture. Morgenthau III was the US... more... - MRW
morgenthau jr - flyod
flyod=Landon/Solon? - Sean McBride
Is Noontide Press a white nationalist and antisemitic operation? - Sean McBride
not landon/salon. and yes noontide is labeled publisher of antisemetic hard to find works. still reeds magnum opus is important and much is historically verified. where he speculates he lets you know.. you don't have to agree with all of it but i believe reed was not antsemetic ,nor am i - flyod
Ok. I agree that the Reed work is of great historical importance. It is not automatically discredited because Noontide Press published it. - Sean McBride
plus the firebombings -- "For five years during the second world war, the Allies launched a bombing campaign against Germany's historical city landscape. . .Civilian dwellings were struck by 'wmd', causing a total of 600,000 casualties, including 70,000 children." -"The Fire," Jorg Friedrich. - godot
Yesterday one of Ike's grandchildren complained that a monument to Ike that is being planned does not properly represent him. We need to call in to talk shows and let it be known that Ike does not need a monument -- he should have been tried for crimes against humanity. - godot
Sam Untermyer worked with Jabotinsky and Bibi Netanyahu's father around 1932-33 to drum up hatred of Germans among Americans. Sheldon Richman has commented on MW; in this radio bit he said anti-Iran propaganda is being used to cause hatred of Iranians to enable Americans to feel ok about killing them. Untermyer, Jabotinsky, & Netanyahu Sr carried out the same program against Germans in 1933. - godot
President Obama signs Executive Order allowing for control over all US resources. [WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?]
Humm...I am not clear on this...are the sections cited in the article the "new" expansions? Looking at it pragmatically, in a time of complete disaster the control would be warranted to prevent total chaos. The question is >>>>is this regular updating of executive powers to catch up with the current times or does the timing of it's update show any plans in the works for which it will be needed for? Guess we will find out eventually. - American
"New Obama Executive Order Seizes U.S. Infrastructure and Citizens for Military Preparedness" "In a stunning move, on March 16, 2012, Barack Obama signed an Executive Order stating that the President and his specifically designated Secretaries now have the authority to commandeer all domestic U.S. resources... more... - mark e
Basically, what is going on here is Israel decided their American president should be free to do everything they tell him, and they don't want any of that pesky American backtalk on this. They have wars the Americans need to fight for them and they know Americans are getting very tired of being their exploited underlings. The people who run the USA are solidifying their power to go total police state at the drop of a hat. Full spectrum dominance. - mark e
Edwin Black has a piece up about this on HuffPo, but comments are not allowed. I used to respect this guy, but when I see lines like "Since 2007, when the prospect of Iran blocking the Strait of Hormuz became a daily threat enunciated by Iran," I realize he's a settler scribe. BOTTOM LINE: Iran has not been threatening to close the Strait of Hormuz since 2007 (he provides no links, no... more... - MRW
The great unpalatable American arrogance: "No one asked their names" (This is heartbreaking. Look at that father's face.)
I appreciate that Glenn Greenwald goes after the utter immorality of our chattering class in this. - MRW
Pentagon Finds Perils for U.S. if Israel Were to Strike Iran By MARK MAZZETTI and THOM SHANKER, New York Times, Published: March 19, 2012
It says US military "forecast that the strike would lead to a wider regional war, which could draw in the United States and leave hundreds of Americans dead, according to American officials." Then there is this gem in the penultimate paragraph: BEGIN QUOTE. Israeli intelligence estimates, backed by academic studies, have cast doubt on the widespread assumption that a military strike on Iranian nuclear facilities would set off a catastrophic set of events like a regional conflagration, widespread acts of terrorism and sky-high oil prices. END QUOTE. I love the "backed by academic studies." Are they brain-dead over there? - MRW
Israel Shamir's "To disavow or debate Abunimah."
His opening comments are rip-roaring: "To disavow or debate Abunimah – this is the correct question. Indeed, an American citizen, born in Jordan, who never tread on the land of Palestine, decided to ostracize Gilad Atzmon, a native Palestinian, born and bred on its soil – a silly idea! Next step, he will forbid earthquakes and hurricanes to occur. For me, there is a terrible sense of deja-vu. Some ten years ago, the same Abunimah and his obese Lebanese boyfriend successfully hunted me out of the pro-Palestinian movement, saying that without Shamir, they will win sooner. Ten years passed, and the movement did not get to the mark it was then. This repeat proves that Abunimah is nothing but a gatekeeper on the payroll of his Jewish Zionist friends. They pay him with the currency he appreciates: publicity and access to the Jewish-owned media. Totally unheard of previously, his articles began to be published in the important American papers. Some friendly Jews set him up with his Electronic Intifada. They keep the discourse within its permitted limits." Read the rest for his opinion of Atzmon. - MRW
yup, abunimah is dishonest at best - IranContraScumDid911
The problem is not Abunimah, per se, but the ability that has been conceded by much of the Palestinian leadership in the US going back well before him to question Jewish participation in the Palestine solidarity movement and to effectively limit investigation into the nature of that participation and whether it has benefited or hindered the movement. Since taking on the powerful Jewish... more... - Jeff Blankfort
jeff i love ya but you're being too easy on him, he's a smart guy and he knows god-damned well what he is doing. Notice how he has no problem being on the side of dersh, foxman, bibi and others just to avoid being on the side of the hebrew speaking sax player. Hell, he even signed onto this document at a time when more of his fellow "palis" were being slaughtered yet again by the only... more... - IranContraScumDid911
In that Abunimah has "learned" what he can and can not say, he is only the latest and more widely known, thanks to the net, to act as a "Shabbas Goy" for the Jewish Left. When I started speaking out about the Israel Lobby (it was indeed a lobby at the time, not the alternative government it has since become) I was no longer invited to speak at Palestinian events as the PSC, of which I... more... - Jeff Blankfort
said it before and i'll say it again, somebody needs to stand up and grab these lying zionists by their fucking throats and make them stop lying. Paul Eisen (oh no he is a halocost denier!) gave a nice, succinct explanation for abunimah's curious behavior: - IranContraScumDid911
It's one thing to not oppose oppressing someone out of fear of the repercussions, personal or to what one holds important. It's something entirely different to enthusiastically endorse such oppression, and even worse when one actively furthers such oppression. In the case of what is being done to Atzmon, the moral crime is made all the more repugnant because the oppression is completely... more... - mark e
Petersen condemns the cowards and exposes their lies: "A Call for the Disavowal of Splittism" "Abunimah et al. state without offering one example in their call: “… as Palestinians, we see such [Atzmon's] language as immoral and completely outside the core foundations of humanism, equality and justice, on which the... more... - mark e
Siegel has his own personal take on these smear letters and their cowardly writers: "Rich Siegel : Permission to examine “Jewishness” "If there are those who dislike Atzmon’s ideas, they are free to write their own and express disagreement. They are free to state that Atzmon does not represent them. But to... more... - mark e
I'm wondering if Israel jumped the gun, here. Having a major chunk of their deep cover operatives expose themselves just "to get" Atzmon is a pretty dumb move. Are they that desperate now that this one man is perceived to be such a threat? Or are they so drunk on zio-power that they think that no matter what they do, the "stupid goys" will tolerate it? The arrogance of the slanderers in... more... - mark e
Mark, these are not technically Israel's "deep cover" operatives, but Jewish tribalists whose personal identity has been so threatened by Atzmon's exposure of the phenomenon (which has been out there in plain sight like the naked emperor) that all they know how to do is thrash out and try to silence him, not realizing that by so doing, they are proving that what he says and writes about... more... - Jeff Blankfort
jeff, are the palestinians who signed the excommunication order Israel's deep cover ops, Israel's willing executioners or merely misguided jerkoffs? - IranContraScumDid911
Jeff - some are probably dim "me toos", full of ego and ethnocentrism, but with some I know it goes deeper, beyond smearing Atzmon, and it partly has to do with their insistence of having Israel viewed as a settler colony, as opposed to it being seen as an independent player (IE: the Chomsky deflection). The main point of that deflection is that Israel ultimately gets a free pass. If... more... - mark e
Beyond what Atzmon pointed out about their false representation of Israel being a settler colony, Atzmon also exposed the fraudulence of their their Jewish Marxism. That bites deep because not only have these people warped the left to serve zionist interests, they also warped the left to serve corporate interests. Both the exact opposite of what the left is supposed to represent. And... more... - mark e
None of this is accidental. The castration of the left goes hand in hand now with the neutralizing of Palestinian support. It's highly organized out of tel aviv. Who is doing what in the network is open to speculation, but the fact it's being done and they have been very successful in co-opting most of the opposition to both zionism and corporate power is no longer in question. Are all... more... - mark e
The Palestinian signers have even less excuse for signing than Jewish ones because it's not their "tribe" being threatened by Atzmon's views. Plus, it obviously looks very bad on their character to be seen joining what is unmistakably a typical zionist Israeli smear job. Any Palestinians signing on for this smear looks exactly like the American congress critters do when they drop their... more... - mark e
Nahida has a message for Ali Abunimah and the rest of the "Palestinians" who signed on the smear: "Disavow with no mercy? Not in my name!" "I would like to remind Mr Ali Abunimah and the few individuals who signed his statement, that in our Islamic heritage, Arabic tradition and Palestinian... more... - mark e
"I would like to remind them also that such foreign concept they are trying forcibly to shove down our throats and introduce to our culture under the pretext of "fighting racism", does not only stand in stark contradiction with the very core ethos of the culture they claim to be defending, but it reflects severe reasoning impotence as well as intellectual incompetence. Indeed, our... more... - mark e
In our inherited culture, we do not disavow, ostracize or excommunicate, we invite for debate. In our inherited culture, we do not burn books we disagree with, we refute with reason and facts. In our culture, we do not forbid independent thinking, we encourage إجتهاد Ijtihad. In our culture, we do not forbid deep critical thinking or unfamiliar creative ideas, we call it تفكر... more... - mark e
Towards the end she asks some penetrating questions: "Finally, some questions to ponder upon, for those who signed the "disavowal" statement and those who agree with it: Is it anti-Semitic to examine racist ideologies and expose it? Is it racist to disagree with the politics of some groups when their involvement in politics is based on tribalism? Is it immoral when a person finds... more... - mark e
Alison Weir: "The unfortunate division over Gilad Atzmon" "This recent letter against Atzmon was preceeded by an earlier one, which was posted on this anonymous blog; interestingly, Palestinians seem to have made up an extremely small percentage of its signatories. My guess is that some of the people... more... - mark e
Comments were shut down on the smear of Atzmon at MW. Apparently, the owners of MW realized their smear was backfiring on them and those taking them to task over it were showing them up for the tribal bigots and limousine anti-zionists which they are. - mark e
Yeah, they faced the spectacle of Hostage now reading the book, and his comments so far indicate that he will hew to what's written. If they ban Hostage in addition to Blankfort, they're finished, they become an adjunct of the 1950s-(un)inspired Max Ajl's site (Jesus, he's tedious, and he hates me as well, a feather in my cap). I also think Danaa's comments added to this as well. She's... more... - MRW
Who wants to bet they will never feature an Atzmon complaint post again so that Hostage can't ream their backsides. - MRW
mark e -- Anyone who doubts her recitation of what their culture stands for is a fool and has never studied it: 'yet sneakingly participate in the concealment of Jewish anti-gentile racism by blocking information, aborting any debate about it and by silencing and shunning those who attempt to expose it. In our culture, we refuse to act as lackeys of our oppressors, as they sharpen their knives, we refuse to be ones who lay down on the floor while guiding them where and how to slaughter." - MRW
MRW - it crossed my mind that Fear of Hostage Future was involved in the closing of the comments. :) According to Atzmon, it was an article by Nahida which Atzmon sent Weiss for possible MW posting that got the initial exchange between them going last summer: "Jewish Voice for Peace? Really??" Naturally, MW refused to host the article. - mark e
Cynthia McKinney interviews Atzmon on Cindy Sheehan's Soapbox: Love the description on the site: "Right wingers call him "anti-semitic" and a "fully fledged holocaust denier." His book The Wandering Who is an investigation of Jewish identity politics and Jewish contemporary ideology using both popular culture and scholarly texts.... more... - mark e
Thanks for the Alison Weir link, Mark. Seeing Blankfort's response about him and Joseph Massad was interesting. The backroom fights are starting to become more apparent. - Chu
It's heartening that many see this Israeli smear for what it is and have not been frightened into silence or support of it. A few years ago I think the Israelis would have been able to intimidate more people into joining their smear campaign. It means things are changing in a positive way and that Israel, and it's support network have lost power and influence. People are really fed up with these people and the anger is palatable. - mark e
Sean McBride
Waiting for the Messiah: Netanyahu addresses Evangelical Christian gathering in Jerusalem - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News -
Waiting for the Messiah: Netanyahu addresses Evangelical Christian gathering in Jerusalem - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News
"Head of Christians United for Israel, largest pro-Israel lobby in U.S., compares PM to Moses and King David." - Sean McBride from Bookmarklet
"American Evangelical pastor John Hagee - who heads the largest pro-Israel lobby group in the United States - half jokingly compared Benjamin Netanyahu to the Messiah on Sunday night, as he waited for the delayed prime minister to arrive at a Jerusalem hotel to address the crowd. "There's a saying in Judaism about the Messiah - I know that even if he tarries, he'll come," Hagee told... more... - Sean McBride
"Netanyahu's speech was the high point of the conference of Christians United for Israel, which recently reached one million members. The conference in Jerusalem drew hundreds of people, primarily Americans, mostly on the older side, with some of the men wearing cowboy hats. Before Netanyahu's arrival, as singer Dudu Fischer got on stage to sing "Am Yisrael Hai" to a techno beat, the... more... - Sean McBride
CUFI (Christians United for Israel) now has one *million* members. Imagine how enraged they will become once they realize that they've been taken in by a con game. - Sean McBride
Hagee brags he has 70 million members. - MRW
For sheer quivering gullibility and duncitude, Hagee is unmatched -- easy prey for sharp operators. The entire movement he leads reeks of infantile tomfoolery. But they are capable of inflicting enormous damage on the United States and the world at large and may well succeed in accomplishing their assigned mission. - Sean McBride
‘Tablet’ describes American veterans of IDF experiencing ‘dual loyalty’ issues. Phil writes: "I know we're not allowed to talk about dual loyalty. But in this day and age sometimes we have to."
"I know we're not allowed to talk about dual loyalty. But in this day and age sometimes we have to." What an odd state of affairs that the truth is deemed taboo and you can be accused of antisemitism for stating it. Experiencing dual loyalty issues? No, they chose dual loyalty. That was their choice. - MRW
I still don't think dual loyalty is the right term. If a loyalty to another nation causes as much harm as the loyalty to Israel does in many cases, and has the potential to cause much more harm, is there really a case to be made for two loyalties? Where is the loyalty to the U.S. except as a safe haven and a place to make money, both of which are often used to serve Israel? - Todd
Gald to see Phil post this, now we are getting to the examples of the many facets of dual loyalties among those not even in the top ten Israel firsters but in the general population. These IDF examples may be few or isolated %wise but it shows the strain that run some of the Jewish community. - American
It's like Weiss needs permission from the Judeo brigade, to take out the dirty laundry and show it to the goyim. I think phil was willing to allow a platform to Atzmon, but those in the background said 'nice try phil'. They got their eyes on him, which is likely why he had to sink his friend Jeff Blankfort. - Chu
I think it's more like Weiss needs to occasionally post material such as this to remain seen as credible. From what I've seen, Weiss is no different from the Donalds and Wolmans, who he personally empowers on the site, and the Horowitzs (and "mysterious others" claimed to be somewhere in the background). - mark e
Todd - "Where is the loyalty to the U.S. except as a safe haven and a place to make money, both of which are often used to serve Israel?" I agree, though if the duality was posited to be loyalty to Israel and "the tribe", then I think a good case for dual loyalty can be made, since Judeo-supremacy and zionism, while connected, are not the same thing. - mark e
I see your point, Mark, and believe that non-Zionist Judeo-supremacists could actually be more dangerous than Zionists. Zionism is transparent and can only do so much damage. - Todd
Todd, I think so also, though the fact Israel has 200+ nukes leaves me hesitant. - mark e
Another civilian massacre and the savagery of our soldiers -
What the latest massacre in Afghanistan says about the United States's neverending "War on Terror"
"Kyrgyzstan Wants US Out as Panetta Arrives for Talks" "Things don’t look promising for Panetta, however, as President Atambayev has insisted that he has “no intention” of renewing the US lease on the base, and wants to see it as a commercial, not military, enterprise." This was decided before the massacre, but I'm sure that massacre killed any chance of the Americans changing Atambayev's mind. - mark e
In 'highly unusual' move, Marines asked to disarm before Leon Panetta speech Just a precaution, you know... - mark e
"Up to 20 US troops behind Kandahar bloodbath – Afghan probe" "The team of Afghan lawmakers has spent two days collating reports from witnesses, survivors and inhabitants of the villages where the tragedy took place. Lali also said their investigations led them to believe 15 to 20 US soldiers had been involved in the killings.... more... - mark e
"Afghan massacre suspect identified as Army Staff Sgt. Robert Bales" "The Stryker Brigade Combat Team, or SBCT, is a mechanized infantry force structured around the Stryker, an eight-wheeled variant of the General Dynamics LAV III, an armored vehicle used by the US Army. The ‘stryking’ thing about the recent atrocity in Kandahar, as... more... - mark e
Maybe they are "experimental" in other ways. There is something really wrong with the official version of this terror attack. This isn't a simple "soldier runs amok" attack. It was planned and organized up the food chain. This was something special, the burning of the victim's bodies says there was something done to them which the military wants to hide. It stinks of a try-out of... more... - mark e
mark e -- "This isn't a simple "soldier runs amok" attack. It was planned and organized up the food chain." Really? You know this for a fact? And your solid evidence is? - Sean McBride
Sean McBride - "Really? You know this for a fact? And your solid evidence is?" Hi, guiltyfeat. ;) (that's the tone and the sort of question one gets from zio-spam, given the material posted above it) - mark e
mark e -- you just made a very serious charge -- what is your evidence to back up the charge? Or aren't you interested in matters of evidence when making such charges? (I recall that you falsely accused Tim Geithner of being Jewish -- do you, under the pressure of your emotional excitement and moral outrage, have a tendency to be careless with facts?) - Sean McBride
Hi guiltyfeat. - mark e
If you don't have any proof for the charge, why not retract it? That is, if you want people to take you seriously as a political analyst. Perhaps you don't care. - Sean McBride
Sean, the attack was done at night. The villages were two miles from the American base, therefore a vehicle or vehicles were required. The Afghan bodies were burned. You need gasoline for that, usually carried on the back of vehicles. This incident involved an American solider or soldiers. You cannot leave the base at night in a vehicle or vehicles without command permission, not at 2... more... - MRW
The villagers report other facts than the Army. - MRW
I *am* thinking -- and my thinking mind, as usual, is telling me not to assert as certain facts things that are still speculations, no matter how reasonable. I always carefully demarcate certain facts from possible or even probable scenarios. Once one gets lazy and sloppy about that kind of thing, matters can go to hell very quickly and almost invariably do -- one turns into a flighty conspiracy theorist as opposed to a serious historical investigator. - Sean McBride
I agree with you, Sean, as I wrote in a 9/11 discussion here. What happened first. HOW it happened second. Then the perps and motives later. Speculation about the who is ridick until you figure out the how. I'll never forget Robert Fisk reporting during the Kosovo War that he walked the train tracks after a bombing attributed to a failed Serbian attack on a civilian bridge. What did he... more... - MRW
That's the problem with this story, the American "facts" don't match what witnesses have claimed and they also don't jive with logic. That's about as obvious as it can be, as was my pointing this out. Why SM got a bug up his ass and started "playing guiltyfeat" when the answers were obvious and already posted I'll leave to the imagination. - mark e
More news is now out, RT edited their article on the massacre I had posted earlier: See also: "Probe team: Women sexually assaulted before killing in Panjwai" Some speculation on what is known of the attack. A nearby explosion or possible... more... - mark e
"Kandahar slaughter preplanned, executed by squad – Afghan top brass" "The Afghan Army Chief of Staff says the slaughter of 16 civilians, including nine children, in Kandahar province was a premeditated assassination carried out by a number of servicemen, RIA Novosti reports, citing Afghan media. President Karzai has... more... - mark e
America's "Lone Gunman" in Afghanistan: "I Did It"... "The alleged "lone nut" Bales did not act alone, according to multiple eyewitnesses, family members of the slain, as well as an official Afghan parliamentary investigation. No, there were up to 20 participants at multiple locations. The assault looks a lot like a night raid,... more... - mark e
mark e -- were you banned from Mondoweiss? - Sean McBride
mark e -- did you say this? "the Jewish zionist run American media" - Sean McBride
mark e: were all the following quotes penned by you? 1. "Judeo-supremacy and zionism, while connected, are not the same thing" 2. "That's how Judeo-supremacism works" 3. "the Jewish zionist run American media" 4. "There is very little now that doesn't come under Jewish zionist influence" 5. "Wolman is only interested in continuing the the myths of Jewish victimhood and reinforcing how "special" Jewish people are. He is a Judeo-supremacist. " - Sean McBride
"Judeo-supremacism" is an expression that turns up often in the writings of extreme antisemites on the net -- Google it for yourself. David Duke is fond of it. - Sean McBride
Several personality traits that I've noticed that most contemporary antisemites share in common: 1. angry 2. conspiracy-minded 3. embittered 4. isolated 5. obsessed 6. paranoid 7. resentful. Who would want to end up that way? - Sean McBride
Another smear attempt from you, SM. WTF What's the matter? You don't like the fact some your heroes are war criminals? You don't like the fact I think what Afghans say about your heroes' war crimes is pertinent to a discussion? That I prefer what they say to what your heroes say? I got news for you, "patriot", the rest of the world views what your heroes are doing to Afghanistan as the acts of war criminals. Good luck smearing the rest of the world, "rush limbaugh". - mark e
"1. angry 2. conspiracy-minded 3. embittered 4. isolated 5. obsessed 6. paranoid 7. resentful. Who would want to end up that way?" That's called projection, SM. :) Now I am wondering why my posting material about this terror attack against these villages in Afghanistan got you so worked up. It's clear it upset you, SM, that I disagreed with the American media and government lies about... more... - mark e
Your smears that this info is "1. angry 2. conspiracy-minded 3. embittered 4. isolated 5. obsessed 6. paranoid 7. resentful" is not only dishonest, it shows that you are no more interested in open discussion of things the establishment wants shut down than zionist spam trolls like guiltyfeat. That you would actually try and smear me also as an antisemite makes me suspect that your... more... - mark e
The following article by Vltchek: provides a history of why the coverage of this atrocity by American soldiers in the American media is so poor, and why it's been so difficult to get the real story out of Afghanistan. It's no accident that real news reporting is almost non-existent today, and Vltchek does a... more... - mark e
mark e -- you misread me completely. I don't believe the official story on the Afghanistan massacre, but I am not prepared yet to assert with confidence that it was an organized operation originating from high levels of the American government -- there is no hard proof of any kind to support that claim -- nor is it easy to imagine what would be the motivation for such an op. Overall you... more... - Sean McBride
More smearing from SM. These "greensteiners" never stop. I love this part: "and some of your language and terminology closely resembles that from the extreme antisemitic right -- from hate blogs like Chris Moore's In what forums have you posted in recent years besides Mondoweiss?" In other words: "have you stopped beating your wife yet"? Typical smear tactics one sees from zionist trolls used incessantly to try and discredit others. - mark e
Back to "The Death of Investigative Journalism": "But in these days to enter Iraq or Afghanistan, or any place that is occupied by the US and European forces would be close to impossible, especially if the aim would be to investigate crimes against humanity committed by the Western regime. There is a way to sneak in to several conflict zones. Those of us with years of experience know... more... - mark e
How important is it to the Times (and us) that Greg Smith is Jewish?
Phil's tagline is "And one of those realities is that a Jewish voice is more powerful than a non-Jewish one in establishment circles." To which I add,....because? - MRW
Thomas Rutherford asking some important questions and making good points in his MW posts. - MRW
That he is. - mark e
Well if history can be relied on the Jews won't be in power too much longer. Here today, gone tomorrow. Haven't gotten my Atzmon book yet....did he address why the Jews always reached a certain point of influence with various rulers and countries in the past and and then crashed over and over again? From my admittedly 'casual' reading of Jewish history inspired by MW, it seems that when... more... - American
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