 |
|
| FriendFeed is the easiest way to share online. Learn more » |
DeWitt Clinton has a private feed
Marshall Kirkpatrick › Comments
Gartner Reveals Top Predictions for IT Organizations and Users for 2012 and Beyond - http://pcquest.ciol.com/content...
By 2015, mobile application development projects targeting smartphones and tablets will outnumber native PC projects by a ratio of 4-to-1. Smartphones and tablets represent more than 90 percent of the new net growth in device adoption for the coming four years, and increasing application platform capability across all classes of mobile phones is spurring a new frontier of innovation, particularly where mobile capabilities can be integrated with location, presence and social information to enhance the usefulness. Innovation is moving to the edge for mobile devices; whereas, in 2011, Gartner estimates that app development projects targeting PCs to be on par with mobile development. Future adoption will triple from 4Q10 to 1Q14, and will result in the vast majority of client-side applications being mobile only or mobile first for these devices.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Start-ups' Biggest Headache Is Lack of Talent - http://online.wsj.com/article...
Nispell liked this
"The biggest challenge for tech start-ups in 2011 isn't conceiving a revolutionary idea. It isn't even raising a million-dollar seed round. The biggest challenge is hiring a team."
- LANjackal
from Bookmarklet
Ugh.... such a tough but interesting situation!
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Julian Assange scoops top journalism prize - http://thenextweb.com/media...
 |
Cristal Blue Persuasion liked this
Making it even more uncomfortable for US authorities to pursue him? Or will this make no difference?
- Brian Sullivan
I'm sure this will make no difference
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
from IM
I thought that was NPH at first.
- SAM
Facebook's Security Check Ask Users to Identify Dogs, Gummis - http://digg.com/securit...
"Totally goofy."
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Has anyone else been denied their Starbucks mayorship discount (via Foursquare)?
I've heard via Chris Messina and others that vendors hate dealing with foursquare discounts
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
from IM
I've been denied of this. Forget about the Starbucks discount. Most baristas don't even know FQ.
- AJ Batac :)
79 Places Google is Being Sued or Blocked (World Map) - http://digg.com/tech_ne...
"Navigable map of lawsuits and government blockages of various Google properties around the world, defined by news coverage within last 12 months, with links to news articles. Pretty sweet."
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
My FriendFeed Notifier Air app is not putting notifications where I ask them to be, suddenly it's scrolling them up and off the top right side of the screen really fast. Anyone have any advice? I love that software.
help! anyone?
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Lelapin, I think I help people online every day. Not on FriendFeed so much, especially now that my notifier is down, but on Twitter and blogs all the time.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Messenger's New Full View: A Social Dashboard for your PC - http://on10.net/blogs...
I don't see where I can post a comment to this, but it looks great!
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Commenting here is good :)
- Sarah Perez
I really hate apps @gregory that spam Twitter. Please let me turn that crap off and keep it off. Grrr.
that's the feature though. anyone can @ a public figure, this systematizes that access
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Not a great first impression for the update.
- Shaun Trennery
The girl who keeps using my Gmail address to sign up for stuff just won a scholarship - oh well!
Anika and Roberto Bonini liked this
omg too funny
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
from IM
George W. Bush Has Joined Facebook - http://digg.com/politic...
Rodfather and Rekha Murthy liked this
""So far the reaction has been almost entirely positive. That's because you have to "like" Bush in order to be allowed to comment on his wall. For a large portion of the world, putting "I like George Bush" into their newsfeed would be like garlic to a vampire. You are, remember, either with him or against him.""
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
I'm liking your comment, just to be clear.
- Rekha Murthy
everyone seems to have missed when @rsarver said there would be "some sort" of twitter app certification/approval in the future at Gluecon.
Hutch Carpenter liked this
I wasn't there but would sure like to know more cc. @rsarver
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
there wasn't much more to it. I said that "platforms" these days seemed to come w/ "app stores/marketplaces" -- and asked Ryan if Twitter would ever have some sort of "twitter certified" designation for apps built on them. He said, yes he thought that would absolutely happen.
- eric Norlin
in my ongoing quest to come face to face with my favorite podcast voices, after @stevegillmor and @philwindley, @joefrancia is next i hope!
Come on out to Utah and I'll introduce you Marshall!
- Jesse Stay
Thanks Jesse, I've actually met Steve and Phil, met Phil at Internet Identity Workshop. It was amazing to see the man behind the voice, in the flesh!
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
I will now post what I believe will be the best BankSimple coverage you'll see this afternoon.
Holden Page liked this
Can you do it without arrogance, or is that a required element? :)
- Louis Gray
without bragging in advance i get a terrible case of the hives and sneezes. sorry Louis :)
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Good to know there's a cause. I like your stuff. I just like it better when it speaks for itself. :)
- Louis Gray
Google Will Push Real-Time Feeds to Browser - http://digg.com/softwar...
"Kind of, but it's no longer slowed by RSS polling and will likely move beyond Ajax. A google rep also told me when I wrote the post that this is one of the company's most popular APIs and some big numbers re API calls will be released tomorrow. So this is a dramatic change to a widely used technology, which is emblematic of a fundamental shift in the web to real time push & away from polling."
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Google Will Push Real-Time Feeds to Browser - http://digg.com/softwar...
"big opportunity for all kinds of sites to be changed by this."
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
R.I.P. World's Greatest Blogsearch - http://digg.com/tech_ne...
"google blogsearch has a lot more spam and doesn't have any "authority" filtering"
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
R.I.P. World's Greatest Blogsearch - http://digg.com/tech_ne...
"Ask.com blogsearch, which had great spam control and let you sort results by popularity of source, was closed down due to lack of use, the company says."
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
just realized I was not following @barackobama before now. ha oops.
Roberto Bonini liked this
Too bad you didn't realize until now - earlier you could have gotten him to follow you as well
- Jesse Stay
;)
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
He is following me, but I am not following him. What say you now, Jesse?
- Louis Gray
Do people like Sarah Silverman?
Brent, Serkan Ünsal, Will Higgins™ and 7 other people liked this
No
- Alex Scrivener
from iPhone
Yes.
- Mark H
Not really.
- Akiva
Neutral
- John (bird whisperer)
Who is she?
- Kevin J Hatton
from FreshFeed
She's hot.
- Josh Haley
I've never paid any attention to her really, but saw all of about five minutes of her on Bill Maher (which is whole 'nother conversation), and she just seemed incredibly inappropriate only for the sake of being so.
- Derrick
That's her shtick, and sometimes it hits, more often than not it misses (outside of a select audience)
- RAPatton
not me.
- holly #ravingfangirl
Everybody love Raymond. I see what they did there.
- Micah
I don't not like her.
- Scoble, Alex Scoble
So you like her, Alex?
- Derrick
She's ok. But sometimes it feels like she tries too hard to be edgy.
- Scoble, Alex Scoble
Overall, yes. I disagree with a few of her comments.
- Jack&Cleo
"People" do - she makes a living. But she sets my teeth on edge.
- Marianne
like RAP said -- she's hit and miss, for me
- Brent
I've never really found myself appreciating her humor. This book review gives a bit of insight into her persona. I can see the empowerment of this bit "Ms. Silverman came to a crucial realization about taking ownership of her embarrassments — an insight that helped make her a stand-up comic unafraid of failure." But when she gets into trying to help other people get over their pain by being racist or potty-mouthed it often comes across as shock rather than awe.
- Maria Niles
Here is the book review link http://www.nytimes.com/2010...
- Maria Niles
Yes, but I've only seen a few skits from her show, so not enough to get a full impression
- The Real sofarsoShawn
from iPhone
Yes.
- topernic
I can take her or leave her
- Valz 4 Botts
I don't find her all that funny
- Amy
As long as she's effing Matt Damon, I like her.
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
she has her moments
- Starmama
I've never met her
- I like big Botts
I like her but don't really pay attention her.
- Rodfather
Gimme Tina Fey.
- Brent
I like her sometimes. She can be a great writer and performer, but a lot of the time these days she seems to just be becoming a caricature of herself. Which is sad.
- Joe "Looptid" Pierce
I do... but in measured doses. I can't take a whole lot of straight Sarah Silverman at once.
- Ladyepiphanybug
of course people like her. what kind of question is this?
- Chris Heath
@Jimminy -- Yes! I love that video! :-D
- Ladyepiphanybug
In small doses.
- Todd Hoff
Nope
- Fossil Huntress
People do. But not this people.
- Shey
I find her kind of fascinating, which is to say sometimes I like her and sometimes I wonder why I like her when I dislike her so much.
- Your Neighbor Steve
i can't stand her shtick.
- Joe The Sausage
I mostly don't like her, but there are glimmers of funny mixed in with offense. I heard she spoke at TED about wanting to adopt a handicap child, so that's a big plus to me.
- <3Heather<3
I know this waitress who looks and talks like her. She is not impressed by the comedian.
- Eric
there are times when she has made me laugh. and that is a talent, IMO.
- Laura Norvig
I suppose you could compare her to Andrew Dice Clay. I do think she's funnier than he was, but I don't know why - it's a very similar schtick.
- Laura Norvig
Only the Matt Damon thing.
- The Amber
Not really.
- Geoff Schultz {TF}
Heather, that skit offended most of the people at TED, because she referred to the child as a retard, though it was in a politically correct tone.
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
I find her hilarious.
- iTad
Ah, didn't know that Jimminy. Although if you talk to my mom (she works for a nonprofit that benefits people with all disabilities) the politically correct thing changes so fast it's hard to keep up sometimes. I understand a comedian using the term though I wouldn't accept it from people as an everyday thing.
- <3Heather<3
She tends to get on my nerves more than not because it all seems so pushed and over the top..
- adf
Not at all.
- Vicarbott
I don't find her humor all that humorous. It's a lot of crass, shock humor and like others have said here, it's more miss than hit. But I do think she's attractive.
- Jonathan Hardesty
She goes out of her way to be shocking....not funny or smart....so therefore, I find her simply annoying.
- Bonnie Foster
Fuck yeah. Piss my pants pants (& sometimes shit) with each raunchy-ass funny fuck'n punch line ~uh thinking of a joke tsssssssssssss, plop plop tsss plop tsss tsss plop tsss Ahhhhhhhhhh
- The Real sofarsoShawn
from iPhone
I love Sarah, although I've never understood the whole "she's hot" thing. And she has nothing in common with Andrew Dice Clay... Sarah's stuff is all about playing with embarrassment and inhibition, while ADC was into expressing rage and contempt. The thing to remember about Dice is that he was Sam Kinnison minus the actual talent.
- Roger Benningfield
I think that Dice deserves more credit than that. Yes, Kinnison introduced aggression into stand-up but not everyone who followed was talentless (just look at how Kinnison inspired even Carlin). Dice's thing was combining 1950s-style punchline-oriented stand-up with a surreal take on offense-oriented humor. Sure, his humor was low-brow but it was part of the character. You want low-talent comedy? Dean Cook. No redeeming value whatsoever.
- Akiva
+100 Akiva. I couldn't stand large doses of Kinison or Clay, but definitely noticed and respected talent and smarts in them. You have to be smart to be a comedian, even if your shtick is dumbed-down humor. Larry (the Cable Guy) is one smart man, and it shows up in his comedy if you're paying attention; that said, I still prefer Bill Engvall to the other Blue Collar guys.
- Ladyepiphanybug
Although I didn't much care for Kinison's stuff either, he should be ranked right up there with Marx, Kovacs, Bruce, Pryor, and Kaufman as one of the people who changed the face of comedy.
- Akiva
There's a key point in that, Akiva. There's a difference between *liking* something and acknowledging the *quality* of it. There's a whole lot of high-quality furniture (and music and theater and art) that I don't like. Those are entirely different measures, and I think we tend to confuse them pretty frequently.
- Ladyepiphanybug
No
- Shevonne
Nope.
- Christa
Akiva, Ladybug, now it's getting interesting. I would love were someone to compose a lineage of comedy/comedians visualization a la http://www.fakeplasticrock.com/wp-cont... . If it already exists on the web (or gopher server), someone please link it here.
- Micah
Used to like her. Think she's really attractive. Now, not so much at all. Like others here, feel she lacks tact in a necessary way for me to sympathize with her humor these days.
- SAM
Heather, I keep my personal tastes independent of my critical appreciation. It always amuses me when people say that they don't understand why Citizen Kane is so highly regarded simply because they weren't entertained by it. There's more to appreciation than enjoyment.
- Akiva
nope
- Harold
Depends: sometimes she is just obnoxious, other times she is hilarious.
- Rene, Pro Button Pusher
No.
- Otto
i do.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
no.
- Melissa
yes
- Serkan Ünsal
Akiva: Youre right... I probably am being too hard on Dice. But he fails my personal "talent test" for comedians, which is a distant cousin to Siskel's "good movie" test. Even though I don't care for most of the Blue Collar stuff (Ron White excepted), I can see sitting down with most any of those guys and finding them interesting and fundamentally funny on a personal level. There's an...
more...
- Roger Benningfield
*bump* Am watching Silverman's "Jesus is Magic", and I need to edit what I typed earlier: I don't find her tv show funny. This stand-up, however, is hilarious.
- Brent
Finally catching up on yesterday's 300 comment flame-fest. I only posted about my own personal privacy settings, but I was immediately accused of drinking the Kool-Aid, and I believe the words "Nazi" and "pimp" were thrown around as well. This is an incredibly emotional issue, which unfortunately makes rational discussion very difficult.
Alfredo 亜瑠布れっど, Zu from AOD, Keith Adams and 53 other people liked this
I suspect that it's actually the issue of control (people aren't confident that they have it) more than privacy that causes so much angst, but I could be wrong.
- Paul Buchheit
*wondering what the Kool-Aid Man looks like in a brownshirt and fur hat with a pheasant feather*
- Spidra Webster
That's an awesome image Spidra!
- Paul Buchheit
This is what happens to alot of the active users, we started turning on each other after the purchase, because there wasn't any new blood to interact with. I think some of us have gotten used to it by now, it happens a few times a week.
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
Both Google and Facebook are asking people to trade privacy for value. Google has simply been smarter about it IMO. They've been *marketing* privacy (catch that 100K/day visits to dashboard post). Whereas Facebook has been marketing feature value - perhaps in hopes of convincing people to exchange that privacy for value. I wrote a bit about this today: http://www.blindfiveyearold.com/have-fa...
- AJ Kohn
Paul for all of the irrational name calling, there are many more who admire you and like you. Don't be discouraged.
- Shakeel Mahate
Thanks Shakeel.
- Paul Buchheit
Privacy is what other people agree not to pass along; Publicity is what they are willing to pass along.
- Cliff Gerrish
from iPhone
Paul, I have a lot of respect for you and did not make any comments around your words but I am very opposed to the auto-opt-in stance that Facebook is taking. It shows little respect to FB's users. The difference with FF vs FB is that FB started out being a 'private culture'. A site should not switch that mid-stream.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Mark, I don't agree with everything Facebook does either, but that's not what I was posting about :)
- Paul Buchheit
Sorry, still worked up about that and didn't see the 300+ topic I guess. ;-)
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
=(
- Shevonne
*fist bump* Paul.
- Derrick
I think that it is because Facebook made a promise initially to offer a space where people could share privately things with their friends. People are feeling betrayed. Emotions are a lot more powerful then reasoning when it comes to decision making. Aren't you the one who needs to know why a startup is doing what they are doing before investing? In this case, facebook seems to be changing the why/what they believe in.
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Paul, I think the people here hold the FriendFeed team in high regard, and you personally. Resorting to name calling is always a bad move, and those who went that direction made the wrong move. I hope you can help your new colleagues make sharp decisions and help them become more transparent - so that we can understand what is currently not understood.
- Louis Gray
Not just a chat room over at FB, Increasing Journalism, Political, Bricks and Mortar Interface new territory.
- Thomas Page
Edwin, Facebook's mission is to give people the power to share and make the world more open and connected. Although I don't always agree with their methods, I believe that's a good and valuable mission.
- Paul Buchheit
@Paul: I think share is understood but open can be scary and connected even more so once people ... connect the dots.
- AJ Kohn
That's a good and valuable mission, but they mean open in the sense of "open book" and not "open platform". Furthermore, I get the impression that they're deliberately letting confusion over that distinction remain.
- Mr. Gunn
Paul, decent people (which were a majority of voices in that thread I believe) respect you, as do I. I've had some of the most rational, constructive discussions I can recall right here on FriendFeed - you and the team made that possible, and a whole virtual community here knows it. It's also an outlet for passionate expression and I have good friends here because of it. Just wanted to say thanks again.
- Micah
I wrote a somewhat confusing blog post about that last year Mr. Gunn: http://paulbuchheit.blogspot.com/2009...
- Paul Buchheit
Paul. This is a good mission statement. I was just trying to give you the perspective of the users and what they think the purpose of facebook is. I think that the good news is that there is probably a balance (example: facebook connect is great where the instant personalization is perceived as just a way to make a quick buck - and very damaging to trust). To facebook's credit, although...
more...
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Paul, that you claim to have no idea what kind of information people might want to post to Facebook but keep private seems like a problem. One clear example that I often think about: a mother who left an abusive partner and now wants to be able to post updates and kid photos etc. but only let approved friends view them, not for example family members of the abuser. Very reasonable, and...
more...
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Marshall, I never said that. It's easy to imagine things that people don't want public (pretty much everything in my email, for starters). What I asked is not for hypotheticals though, but what people here were concerned about personally. I find it's much more informative to get direct concerns rather than concerns that people imagine other people having.
- Paul Buchheit
Ok, fair enough, sorry to have mischarecterized this: "I'm curious what everyone here is putting on their fb that is so secret? Maybe I'm doing it wrong. There are certainly things that I don't want out there (like my credit card numbers), but I'm not going to put that on my fb profile." The scenario described above isn't a hypothetical, fwiw, it's exactly where one of my close friends is on Facebook.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Paul, if I'm worried about certain things becoming public on FB, why would I tell you exactly what I fear becoming public when this is a public thread on FriendFeed and will be on Google in 5 minutes if it isn't already?
- Spidra Webster
Spidra, I meant the class of info (e.g. my credit card number), not the specific info (559234325323425).
- Paul Buchheit
Paul, you are so pimp and I mean that in the best way possible.
- Scoble, Alex Scoble
Thanks Alex :)
- Paul Buchheit
I like Friendfeed for these kind of discussions.
- Ashish
I understand, but some stuff doesn't neatly fall into that category (credit card #, financial details) and even talking about it in general would basically give the game away. I don't think it's a coincidence that most of the folks who take the attitude "there is no such thing as privacy on the internet and you're a sucker for expecting there to be any" are men. Men, as a general category, are not as subject to stalking, domestic violence and rape.
- Spidra Webster
Paul, I think you've hit the nail on the head, if only for my own issue with Facebook. I don't mind that there are services that are public: I'm fully aware that my FriendFeed and Twitter profiles are public, and I want them that way. What gets me about Facebook is that, ostensibly, there's some claim Facebook is making that privacy is an important thing, but it's so incredibly...
more...
- Mark Trapp
Thanks, Paul. And the expiration date?
- Bruce Lewis
Being a man, I can't win that debate Spidra.
- Paul Buchheit
10/10 I think.
- Paul Buchheit
I personally consider facebook to be a private sphere (following people/family that I know enough that I would consider inviting them to my daughters wedding). There are a lot of things that I currently share on facebook that I would not share on twitter. For example, one of my daughters is having a heart surgery on Monday. She is getting a lot of support on facebook and I will use...
more...
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Mark, part of the problem is that efforts to simplify the privacy controls (which I agree are very complicated) are generally not well received, because it means taking away options.
- Paul Buchheit
Edwin, I posted all of my daughter's surgeries on her blog (not that I'm saying everyone should do that). I can understand that not everyone feels comfortable with that, but I'm still curious if there's a specific fear, or just a general discomfort?
- Paul Buchheit
My take is that it is not so much privacy that people are upset about (although I'm sure that there are people who are genuinely upset about privacy), but an interrupted feeling of closeness.
- Clare Dibble
Paul, maybe it isn't about "winning". Maybe it's about entertaining the idea that some people have different experiences in life. That while you and others may be fine with the wall of the garden being knocked down, others aren't. And those others may have very valid reasons for feeling that way. It's about trying to put yourself in their shoes and imagine what it might be like to be in that position.
- Spidra Webster
Paul - I'm curious to get your take on the Facebook social advertising model and monetization strategy with respect to how our public data is being used to drive revenue. This post touches upon some of the issues/challenges that I see: http://markmaunder.com/2010...
- Brian Daniel Eisenberg
Paul, I understand that, but there are still things that just seem anti-user, even considering how much pushback you guys get on changing things. A couple of examples: you can't wholesale delete classes of items (like the activity on the wall), you can't prevent activity (like commenting and changing your profile) from appearing on your wall or your friends' newsfeeds, and, if you've been able to find the option to do so, deleting an account takes two weeks to do.
- Mark Trapp
You're right, winning is a poor choice of words. What I meant to say was that the statement implied to me that I simply couldn't understand because I'm a man.
- Paul Buchheit
I love social media and have participated in it extensively since getting on the 'net. It's not that I don't want to participate. It's that I want to be in control or at least notified AHEAD OF TIME of what is public and what isn't. Facebook keeps moving the goalposts and not being upfront with users about it. They do a piss poor job of communicating with users. They implement new...
more...
- Spidra Webster
My person view is that I'm very likely to share information publicly but get hesitant when settings are changed without me changing them. I like the concept of Open Social but let me decide that I want to share my Pandora channels with my Facebook friends, not the other way around. The fear is that FB is deciding what info to link together and if you don't pay attention new links will...
more...
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Hey, Paul, I was just kidding with you about the Kool-Aid thing, man. To lump my light-hearted jest in with 'Nazi' is a bit much and I think you know that.
- Akiva
Sorry Akiva.
- Paul Buchheit
What I mean is like a group of friends hanging out, cracking inside jokes in a public place when and outsider wanders by and tries to join the fun. Following peoples daily rituals and struggles is a form of intimacy and people literally feel a bit naked in front of the world when that goes to a close group of friends to "everyone". But we have seen communities of strangers become good friends because of it here on friendfeed.
- Clare Dibble
Yeah, I think that's a pretty good example Clare. It changes people's behavior when they don't know who is listening. However, once all of your family, co-workers, etc are on there, I feel like a lot of that is already lost because it's such a diverse group.
- Paul Buchheit
No social network has gotten the "Circles of friends" piece right yet. There are friends and then there are FRIENDS. Then there are co-workers and CO-WORKERS. Then family, classmates, etc. Each of those grouping a person has a different set of "openness" with. I want a professional image with Co-Workers but maybe be a little more open (passing a NSFW joke) to other sets of friends.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
The controls for privacy (and much of the UI in general) are too byzantine on Facebook. One gets the feeling it's set up like insurance, where you're meant not to get past certain steps. I'm not saying that's how it was designed - just that it feels that way. All that said, people need to take more personal responsibility for what they share online. And there IS reason to be careful. I...
more...
- AJ Kohn
Using the Pandora example: I may listen to Death Metal and now my HR rep looks me over for a promotion as they now have a new image of me. HR would have never looked at Pandora before this FB linkage. It's a hypothetical but those stories will happen.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Paul, I think you provided a public service yesterday by kindly allowing people to flog you as an effigy for their anger over the Facebook changes. Kind of like being in the wrong place at the right time.
- Martha
Not a specific fear. Just a feeling of discomfort.
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Mark, if your HR rep overlooks you for promotion based on musical tastes, you should consider looking for a new job. I know that's not practical for everyone, but in general we should fix problems, not hide them.
- Paul Buchheit
It would be convenient if no one ever felt any discomfort about sharing personal information with arbitrary people, but I don't think that's likely to be common any time soon. I think people will always be embarrassed about something. That's just the nature of social groups.
- Seth
Paul, do you really think there is a place where promotions are not based on what the powers that be think of that person?
- Clare Dibble
It was an example but one that can happen. Openness will not fix stereotypes and bias. Many non-web companies and people are not ready for this new world of full transparency. I'm only playing Devil's Advocate btw because I believe in privacy/security first, openness as a feature.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Of course it's an issue Clare, though I expect it's a bigger problem for things like race and gender, which are much harder to hide.
- Paul Buchheit
Seth, I suspect some cultures have much more fear and embarrassment than others, and that the difference is driven in part by secrecy. People are embarrassed because they feel uniquely weird/defective. They will feel better if they know they're not alone.
- Paul Buchheit
I'm still proud of my bus/taxi metaphor. =)
- Andrew C (✓)
Paul, I'm sure there's some of that, but there are lots of other issues tied to the things people choose not to share. For example, if I had an ongoing serious medical issue, I might just not want to get into it with everyone I meet, even if it's not something I'm ashamed of.
- Seth
Just so that no legends are created here, here is the actual "Nazi reference", which was specifically NOT raised against either Paul or Facebook, but against the WORDING of some of the arguments: "Chris/Darren, just because 'they did it in a VERY impressive and powerful way' doesn't mean we all have to like it. The same could be said e.g. for the Nazi's taking over Germany. [Later..]...
more...
- Alex Schleber
Yeah, it's just that the arrival of Nazi's are usually a bad sign for a discussion.
- Paul Buchheit
Well, Facebook's 500M users raises the stakes by a good bit. Don't forget, Paul, you're on the inside looking out, we're on the outside looking in. There's no getting around that.
- Alex Schleber
Paul, you say: "I suspect some cultures have much more fear and embarrassment than others, and that the difference is driven in part by secrecy. People are embarrassed because they feel uniquely weird/defective. They will feel better if they know they're not alone." --- Now you're really starting to freak me out with this Orwell-Speak. I am dead serious, maybe check for group think every once in a while.
- Alex Schleber
What Orwell-Speak Alex? People form support groups for a reason.
- Paul Buchheit
Alex, I get the impression that Paul's question isn't about Facebook at all. This is something he's been talking about since before Facebook approached FriendFeed.
- Bruce Lewis
Yeah, I'm one of the people who thought Facebook was too closed.
- Paul Buchheit
Paul, I thought Facebook was too closed, too. That's why I chose to use networks like Twitter and Friendfeed. I left Facebook for the people who wanted a closed network, because that's of high value to a lot of people. With Facebook abandoning its original vision of a closed network with close control over who you share information with, I'd argue that it's lost the very thing that made it different and valuable. And opening it up hasn't made it more valuable to me, either.
- Jandy
One question: it seems that with likes improving both user profile information and metadata around a lot of the fresh/interesting content around the web, Facebook has enough moving parts to, in an aggregate/privacy safe fashion, create a very competitive search solution, one that Google might have trouble competing with because of inferior profile information. Is there a reason why Facebook is so aggressive with regard to privacy? Isn't search the big monetization opportunity?
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Fine, that's your right, Paul. But why do all of the other FB users have to be on board? If they wanted super open, they would have been on Friendfeed like the rest of us, no? But people flocked into FB to a large extent because of the "Walled Garden" feel.
- Alex Schleber
Edwin, I doubt that you'll believe me, but I contrary to popular opinion, it's not about monetization.
- Paul Buchheit
So then what is Zuck's grand ultimate vision, Paul? If you're allowed to say, just tell us.
- Alex Schleber
Alex, "to give people the power to share and make the world more open and connected".
- Paul Buchheit
I have huge respect for you so I believe you. May be you should have started instant personalization with some non profit organizations and demonstrate the power of more open in a different context. Specially given how much bad rap Yelp has been getting lately.
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Edwin, if it were up to me, that's not the only thing that would be different about instant personalization.
- Paul Buchheit
"they will feel better" = Orwell-Speak. And BTW, support groups place an absolute premium on privacy. If you're found out to be divulging details spoken in private within the group, you're likely to be booted. Please, leave the psychology to the psychologists/counselors (and Zuck's bit of undergrad psych that Scoble is so in love with doesn't count either - I'd say he knows just enough to be a little dangerous in terms of sucking people in).
- Alex Schleber
"to give people the power to share and make the world more open and connected" --- I thought that's what the entire Web was for?! It would seem he took a rather indirect path to that then, wouldn't you say?
- Alex Schleber
Alex, my daughter was in the hospital for three months and we chronicled the entire thing on her blog. Not only did we meet other people as a result, but other people in similar situations said that it really helped to see her story. This isn't theoretical for me, and it's not "Orwell-Speak".
- Paul Buchheit
I thought FB was just private enough (before). Again, different tools, different benefits. For example, allowing just everyone to email me on LinkedIn would /reduce/ LI's utility, not increase it...
- Andrew C (✓)
Why does he think he needs to "give people the power"? Are we all defective then in his view?
- Alex Schleber
Seriously?
- Paul Buchheit
Paul, I am very sorry about whatever happened to your daughter, and am glad if you and/or anyone else found comfort in sharing very openly online. But you cannot simply extrapolate from your experience to everyone elses. Therein lies the rub exactly. You persist despite the fact that people on the prior thread were disagreeing with you somewhere around 5:1.
- Alex Schleber
How do you mean?
- Alex Schleber
Your "we are all defective" line, as though every tool-maker is insulting humanity. Is truth a matter of opinion for you?
- Paul Buchheit
People aren't socially broken when they adjust their behaviour and public face to fit certain contexts. I would argue that (within reason) such behaviour is actually well-adjusted. (sorry, I'm catching up in bits and pieces here and my point with this was related to the Pandora/death metal hypothetical.)
- Andrew C (✓)
Also, if everyone agreed with me, there would be no point in discussing it :)
- Paul Buchheit
Not every toolmaker gives out business cards that read: "I'm CEO, Bitch!"
- Alex Schleber
Alex, I think he (Zuck) sees the software as a way to HELP people more easily share and connect. Of course, we can do that without FB (or the internet for that matter), but these tools allow us to do it more efficiently. For example, right now FF is allowing us to engage in a discussion about our FB privacy concerns with Paul. I would say that's incredibly empowering.
- Chip Ramsey
Maybe "incredibly" is a bit of a stretch, even though, as we all agreed on above, Friendfeed has been pretty awesome. Facebook is another story...
- Alex Schleber
Well, you have access to someone who can make a difference at Facebook. I wonder if the opportunity hasn't been squandered. Paul, do you feel you actually have a better understanding of people's concerns than before you made your initial post?
- Chip Ramsey
Not dramatically, but discussing something with a semi-hostile crowd is always somewhat enlightening, often in unexpected ways.
- Paul Buchheit
Thanks for taking the time to try to understand Paul
- Chris Myles
Flame fest turned into BBQ. Lemonade out of lemons. I like.
- Josh Haley
See, the world is good. I love BBQ :)
- Paul Buchheit
Semi-hostile = less heated = slow-cook BBQ
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
Paul, FWIW, I know you're a smart guy, and I sincerely hope that you're a good guy too, who would speak up (and maybe even quit) if something at FB became a real problem. Of course for that to happen you first have to recognize it as a problem, so if this discussion sticks in your mind someday in the future, then it will have all been worth it.
- Alex Schleber
Alex, I'm sorry if I'm asking you to repeat yourself, but would you mind listing the top few things you think Facebook could do to alleviate your concerns? I know this is an emotional issue for a lot of people, but I think the less emotional and more concise the list, the better it will be. Although there is nothing I can do about FB, I'm working on a business collaboration tool (that...
more...
- Chip Ramsey
Stepping back, I think that I understand better Paul's passion about making the world more open. I think that there are 2 issues: 1) the perception that facebook is doing this to better profile people and better target them with advertisement. 2) it will take time for people to overcome their "discomfort" of living in the open and it is very important for them to feel in control - right...
more...
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Paul: You make a lot of good points regarding FB and your personal ideas on privacy. Paradoxically, by trashing privacy, what you and FB are ACTUALLY doing, is making people less transparent, because there's no trust that we can keep private info (or conversations) safe on FB any more. I wouldn't worry though - 99% of users have no idea what FB are doing regarding privacy and you are way too big to suffer. You can (literally) do anything you want.
- Jim Connolly
Privacy / control settings should maybe just be a first-order element on the page, not a tab in a settings area. The mechanism should be simple enough to fit in a 100-200px tall box. If home page is a dashboard, then this control panel should be somewhere there, wouldn't you think?
- Christopher Galtenberg
(Not do this with all control panel elements, obviously. Just those of first-order importance. FB should want this, to obviate its most prominent achilles heel.)
- Christopher Galtenberg
Under Get Connected, a Privacy section with 4-6 simple on/off toggles. Sweetness, problem solved.
- Christopher Galtenberg
MOAR BBQ
- Otto
I am so going on a spending spree with Paul's credit card. First purchase: BBQ for everyone!
- Laura Norvig
Chip, I've been writing up some points late-late last night, getting things in order for a future post. As for Paul/Facebook, it seems pretty clear that they've made up their mind, even though their users already told them with Beacon that they didn't want all of this automatic public stuff, thank you. Apparently, that's not what Zuck wanted to hear.
- Alex Schleber
...Paradoxically, it is FB's either/or stance on this that's at the heart of the problem: Who says they couldn't keep their users' privacy as protected as possible, while also doing useful/innovative/profitable things with the data? I fundamentally disagree that it is somehow necessary to hand as much data as they are doing off to either FB Apps (that's long been a thorn/nuisance) or now to all sorts of 3rd party sites.
- Alex Schleber
I just read all these comments and the ones from yesterday. Before my brain escapes out my ears, I figured I'd get right down to the fundamental issue here: Paul asks this a lot: "What is the specific fear you have with some info being public?" but the problem is that the question itself is missing the point. There does not have to be a specific fear for people to want to keep their own...
more...
- Otto
I just have to say, OOOH YEAAAAH!!! :-)
- Jesse Stay
+1 Sam Wood.
- Alex Schleber
Well said, Sam. "Why can't you change the nature of what you want? Glass house and all, it's the ideal, haven't you heard? Why can't you just conform?" Well, dammit, because I don't want to, ok? Do you want me as a user or not?
- Christopher Galtenberg
Alex, you wrote to Paul: "You persist despite the fact that people on the prior thread were disagreeing with you somewhere around 5:1." These statistics are flawed. People who disagreed were much more likely to comment. I am not particularly exercised about the issue and have higher priority uses of my time than getting into an argument here. I suspect the same is true of many others. The "5:1" comes from a highly biased sample. My lack of comment should not be taken to mean anything.
- Ruchira S. Datta
And we have already given a fair number of specific examples where privacy is still a desired/assumed good. And while Jesse has been busy calling us paranoid (the only ad hominem in the entire debate so far BTW) and that we should assume that anything we put into the Internet to just be public, the reality is that that would simply reduce the number of Internet based services we use SIGNIFICANTLY (online banking, shopping, IM/email, dating, etc.). ...
- Alex Schleber
...See, the assumption used to be that if your site is password protected, then the stuff inside is at least a lot more private than the Internet at large. Yes, there can be screw-ups/glitches/what have you, but those AREN'T BY DESIGN. Facebook used to be that way: Without login, you couldn't see much of anything. Without somebody being your friend, you couldn't see much of anything about them.
- Alex Schleber
Ruchira: Well, obviously I cannot say anything about a sample that doesn't exist (I was talking about the thread). BTW, your statement that "People who disagreed were much more likely to comment" is merely your opinion. Unless you get some stats to back that up (always question when someone trots out the "silent majority"). And fine, even if it were an even split, are therefore our...
more...
- Alex Schleber
Here's an idea that could settle things pretty quickly a to user intent: With no equivocation, Facebook could do a forced choice for each user on login: 1) I want everything to be completely private, no one but my friends sees nothing. 2) I want everything to be completely open. 3) I want to muddle through with the detailed settings somewhere in the middle,which will be my responsibiliy.
- Alex Schleber
...THAT would be transparent. A fair up or down vote, with no one left out due to misunderstandings. Of course FB/Zuck/Paul et al. will never go for that, given how much they've already finagled past users.
- Alex Schleber
FWIW I stopped trying to defend it all in that thread because it became hostile. I'm sure there were others afraid to comment, on both sides, as well.
- Jesse Stay
I just put my responses here: http://friendfeed.com/glenc...
- I like big Botts
Unsurprisingly, a 300 comment flame-fest erupts from a post about a 300 comment flame-fest.
- Carter ♥ HTML5
Someone needs to create a plugin that when you click on it the Kool-Aid man comes out and says, "OOOH YEAAAAH!"
- Jesse Stay
Kind of like the Duck plugin
- Jesse Stay
Really this has been remarkably reasonable thread given that the subject matter is charged IMO. No one threatened to delete their Friendeed account yet... :) We know how some of those emo threads on here can go...
- Alex Schleber
The Facebook Kool-Aid Man? I.e. Mark Z.?
- Alex Schleber
i'm deleting everything everywhere! *stomps off whimpering*
- Joe The Sausage
:P
- Joe The Sausage
+1 Carter, though I disagree with the "flame-fest" characterization. Paul is thereby making this too easy on himself IMO.
- Alex Schleber
I don't think I ever saw Zuck (or any Facebook employee) deleting their Buzz account after their privacy problems ;-)
- Jesse Stay
Okay, done flaming... ;-)
- Jesse Stay
"to give people the power to share and make the world more open and connected" - Paul, I think if, instead of changing the visibility status of previously posted content to a more public setting, FB had said "going forward, your posts will be more public, but the privacy status of your past posts hasn't changed," users would feel that their 'contract' with FB had been changed without...
more...
- John Craft
There was rightly a lot of scorn heaped upon Google for that and all the other Buzz screw-ups (one of the key one's being not being Friendfeed :). You're evading, Jesse.
- Alex Schleber
Alex, I'm just saying, so long as we're talking about Kool-Aid and pointing to Zuck: http://staynalive.com/article...
- Jesse Stay
http://mattmckeon.com/faceboo... <- good timeline, so we have a bit of a basis to discuss from
- Alex Schleber
Huh. DID ANYBODY NO that Kool-Aid now makes fizzy tablet versions? http://brands.kraftfoods.com/koolaid...
- Otto
Jesse: Haha, while we're on the subject of distracting from the subject at hand... -> http://www.boingboing.net/2010...
- Alex Schleber
"good timeline, so we have a bit of a basis to discuss from" - and for many (all?) of those expansions, a user's awareness was "hey! we just made you more public!" not "in a few days we're going to make you more public." The end result is a loss of trust from FB users who valued the privacy.
- John Craft
http://www.boingboing.net/2010... One great thing for Facebook about all of these Facebook privacy angst stories is that, for the first time, these posts get significantly more "Shares"/"Likes"/etc. than Retweets. Usually, as can be seen from Jesse's Chrome OS post above, tech/geek stuff has 65 Retweets and 3 FB Shares... ;)
- Alex Schleber
Two great lines sum it up: “Facebook has become more scary than fun”, “If I’m looking for a day care for my 6-year-old, I’m going to put that in my status message, not do a Google search.” http://nyti.ms/bqzmm6
- Christopher Galtenberg
I love how the mainstream press refuses to print danah's name in lower case. Or it just gets copyedited out all the time but that would bother me if I were her.
- Laura Norvig
BTW, here is a great tool to verify what Facebook currently really makes public about you, you can see that most everything has already been subsumed into a huge mish-mash of "Likes"... http://zesty.ca/faceboo... and apparently, Hawai'i is now an organization, and Psychology and Philosophy are "Book Genres"...sigh.
- Alex Schleber
Wow, just saw that Facebook "disappeared" my work & edu data in the transition...smooth DB work, guys...it will be interesting to see how much data is actually lost in these coming days & weeks. I have pretty recent counts from FB Ads on about 50 keywords, will compare those with the new #s soon and report back.
- Alex Schleber
I'd feel a LOT more comfortable if Facebook's misson was "to give people the power to share and the power to be open and connected (when appropriate)", and if the tools backed that up and retained the choices *not* to be more open (when appropriate), instead of "to give people the power to share and make the world more open and connected". That whole *MAKE* thing is just way too tyrannical.
- Tinfoil 2.0
@LogEx: Interesting, I hadn't really caught 'make' as a forced connotation but can see how it could be interpreted as such. Would "enable a more open and connected world" be better?
- AJ Kohn
Yes, "make" is what FB has been doing at least since November and "enable" would be better, but the flipside should be explicitly stated too... to allow each user to choose where they want to live on the publicity-privacy spectrum is also essential (even moreso for vulnerable populations). In real life, most people have more privacy [read: choice and control] than publicity. Online communities should support that.
- Tinfoil 2.0
@LogEx: prezactly!
- vicster
Oh, and apparently now FB will stab Farmville in the back too...the nerve...what about the animals... :) http://techcrunch.com/2010...
- Alex Schleber
Alex, thank you for the detailed response. I think your suggestion for a simplified three level system is reasonable. I was leaning towards a similar approach as well – settings that are very easy to explain and should rarely (if ever) need to be changed. Although, things get tricky when you're trying to implement an API that provides useful functionality to the third-party apps users choose to authorize.
- Chip Ramsey
It seems to me that the only way to keep API access simple (and useful) is to tell the user that they shouldn't authorize any application they don't want to have full access to their information. In my opinion, expecting users to manage privacy settings on a per application basis is asking too much. Also, allowing customized settings per user and application makes life much more difficult on application developers and probably renders a whole class of collaborative applications useless.
- Chip Ramsey
^^ I'm talking about my own experiences designing an app BTW. Not trying to get everyone riled up again.
- Chip Ramsey
Inspired by this discussion, I have a FB feature request: Facebook Embarrassing Trends, a list of text strings updated hourly. These would be text strings that appeared in a high percentage of Facebook updates that were explicitly made private recently. "Photos from last night's drunken revel" for example. The data would be aggregated, so it wouldn't embarrass any individual. But we'd learn something about ourselves as a society.
- Larry Hosken
Another real example of unintended consequences even only social graphs (i.e. friends lists): http://www.boston.com/bostong... And in case Jesse or anyone else wants to say something like: "Well, you shouldn't want to keep that private anyway" --- this is NOT a discussion over whether anyone anywhere has legitimate privacy wishes, about their sexual orientation or anything else.
- Alex Schleber
...Which BTW still can have immediate real world consequences for members of the U.S. military as you well know. Also, here's this: http://www.binint.com/2010...
- Alex Schleber
Chip, that's the thing, if you asked any users straight up whether anything should be loosened up for the particular delight/easement/practicality of any third-party apps (or even FB itself for that matter), you know the answer is extremely likely to be a resounding NO. Given that, if you are changing things in the background, largely in the fine-print so to speak, just don't delude yourself that it's not sneaky.
- Alex Schleber
Also, is Louis Gray paranoid too here? -> http://www.google.com/buzz... "Facebook has added many FriendFeed-like features, but they have also acted in a way that makes me uncomfortable in terms of changing the rules of privacy in the middle of the game, while also locking away other pieces of content that should, in my...
more...
- Alex Schleber
Chip, interesting that WIRED just said about the same thing as I did: "Facebook could start with a very simple page of choices: I’m a private person, I like sharing some things, I like living my life in public. Each of those would have different settings for the myriad of choices, and all of those users could then later dive into the control panel to tweak their choices. That would be...
more...
- Alex Schleber
Here is an interesting post from Jeff Jarvis on the subject: http://www.buzzmachine.com/2010...
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Here is an interesting visualization which showcases the perception problem facebook is having of pushing too aggressively users towards public http://mattmckeon.com/faceboo...
- Edwin Khodabakchian
OK, so Scoble, after initially being somewhat reserved about the consequences of Facebook's actions, is now 110% on board it seems, spying on people's odd musical tastes on Pandora was just too much to resist I guess... -> http://scobleizer.com/2010...
- Alex Schleber
Thanks for the discussion, (gg Alex, Edwin you held for some good points) I enjoyed those two threads a lot. If anyone wanted to know what I think: I share a lot, web pages, thoughts, etc. And any private stuff, I keep in my head for now as it's lot more work openly. We'll see with examples in the future. Got a theory on private stuff: Unless it's data like address or financial details...
more...
- Zu from AOD
A brief acquisition history of Palm: http://yfrog.com/58ivip
 |
George Moga, fshamsi, A. T. and 20 other people liked this
Well, when you put it that way.
- Micah
that gap between 2005 and 2010 is what did them in - they needed another acquisition or two
- Chris Heath
Palm's last bad decision, and ultimately the deciding one that did them in was to make Ruby CEO. Great guy, brilliant mind, but not what they needed at that particular time.
- JCunwired
I think their problem was to let their core OS stagnate to the point where they had to create a whole new one. If they made good use of the assets they acquired with the BeOS and kept PalmOS at the forefront they would have been a worthy bar for the original iPhone to try and meet rather than simply step over.
- Kevin Fox
yeah, very true
- Chris Heath
To add to that Kevin, no migration path from PalmOS to WebOS for apps and data. Either strategy would likely have saved them.
- JCunwired
It wasn't just the OS that stagnated... The Treo 600 came out in 2003, and aside from lopping off the antenna, the Treo line was largely unchanged until the last year when the Pre was introduced.
- Ken Sheppardson
FacePalm.
- Louis Gray
And don't forget the years spent toying with Windows Mobile, distracting them from innovating their own OS
- Ken Sheppardson
http://www.facepalm.org/ Just Keep Refreshing
- Chris Heath
Aw damn, I completely forgot that HP bought 3Com two years ago. That adds another line to the graph.
- Kevin Fox
"that gap between 2005 and 2010 is what did them in - they needed another acquisition or two" - I would suggest it was the endless sale / license / reacquire / reboots and other delays on developing the successor to PalmOS.
- John Craft
So HP bought 3Com like last year. Fwiw.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
RT @dangillmor: now the Web gurus are telling newspapers to turn their futures over to Facebook. what happened to iPad-as-savior? http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...
Marshall Kirkpatrick liked this
wait till you see newspapers on facebook on the ipad! woo!
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Next week it'll be someotherservice.com...
- Matt M (inactive)
I still love my Morning Paper. Nothing is better than that.
- Deepak Kumar Majhi
Gillmor Gang, Live Recording Session at 12 Noon PT. Participate at http://www.building43.com/realtim...
Roberto Bonini, Alex de Soto, Susan Beebe and 9 other people liked this
f8 is today's topic, I assume?
- Matt M (inactive)
Could be.
- Cliff Gerrish
Gillmor Gang will get underway in about 5 minutes.
- Cliff Gerrish
OK, waiting for the call.
- Robert Scoble
Today's music, while on hold, Ghostland Observatory. Of course if you are friends of me on Pandora/Facebook you already know that. :-)
- Robert Scoble
looking forward to listening to this on youtube later
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Marshall: Or Pandora: http://bit.ly/8ZZdon
- Robert Scoble
heh, no I mean to the show :) that's how i tend to consume the Gang, with youtube on iphone in my pocket while i'm out walking my dogs.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
my dogs hear the GG theme song, Steve's voice, and they go nuts, jumping all over, looking for their leashes. it's a whole family thing.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Live now, thanks!
- Robert Scoble
Present and accounted for!
- Stephen Pickering
is facebook still on track to serve 1billion 'likes' within 24hrs?
- michael sean wright
smallish number of people "liking" the example code. ;-)
- Ian McGee
Marshall - there is a feed for the audio only version (comes out a couple days after the show) - http://173.203.214.15/podcast...
- Rob La Gesse
2 sites I visited today got hung up due to facebook integration. how much does this slow down the web?
- michael sean wright
OK, I think I'm ready to stop watching this now. This is really annoying.
- Matt M (inactive)
It's an iframe.
- Cliff Gerrish
this is the same data facebook has on us.
- michael sean wright
It's an iframe, but it's initialized via JS.
- Matt M (inactive)
Yeah, it's moving a bookmarklet off the chrome and into the page.
- Cliff Gerrish
Go Cowboys!
- Rob La Gesse
Da Boys!
- Stephen Pickering
one company owning the social graph.
- michael sean wright
Are you talking about Twitter?
- Cliff Gerrish
What's missing is context though. I Like articles on some topics with some friends, and completely different with my kids and even other with distant relatives. Tools coming to manage this?
- Ian McGee
once upon a time, people feared doubleclick having so much data on us, pales in comparison to what facebook now has. facebook wants to be the layer between you and the net. how many people are going to by default, stay logged in to facebook not knowing that facebook is still there, collecting as you surf 100's of sites?
- michael sean wright
michael... Facebook wants to be the layer between you and the world. With hundreds of millions of users with real world identities, the bridge between offline and online is increasingly built, raising significant dangers to individuals.
- Tinfoil 2.0
Google and Microsoft also want to be the layer between you and the world. Twitter does too.
- Cliff Gerrish
But Google and Twitter (and presumably Microsoft) don't require real world identities to use their services. That's the key, there's no way to partition off your Facebook life like you can with virtually every other service out there.
- Tinfoil 2.0
that's all nice, but I have no intention of mashing everything up over on facebook. over there I'm just another face on the book.
- Karoli
but as more sites adopt these really powerful FB "social widgets"...it will be hard to just be a face on the book...
- .LAG liked that
The age allows Facebook to show me hair growth ads :)
- Mike Doeff
the big push back is not being able to outrun the reach of facebook. it's one thing to willingly abide by the rules of using facebook while there but to be leaking data back while i'm not there is not kosher. a cookie can only tell a third party a few things, my social graph is who i am.
- michael sean wright
+1 Michael
- .LAG liked that
I don't know that it's true to say that your 'social graph' is 'who you are.'
- Cliff Gerrish
Michael - your social graph does not belong to you. Deal with it :)
- Rob La Gesse
Google social search is really neat
- Susan Beebe
Social graph is a network of which you may be a node.
- Cliff Gerrish
Gaming the system is age-old. BFD
- Karoli
Rob - I agree but I feel a responsibility to those in my social graph to consider the cost of dragging them along the facebookweb.
- michael sean wright
Social behavioral search is valuable for understanding the web in context of your friends interests
- Susan Beebe
I'm just happy you guys aren't talking about the iPad again.
- Alex de Soto
Andrew shouldn't be calling FriendFeed a POS with the creator there, that's just impolite
- Stephen Pickering
Gee, I wonder how great Facebook will be on the iPad?
- Cliff Gerrish
Let's talk about Facebook on the iPad :)
- Rob La Gesse
hehe
- Susan Beebe
Oh nooooo!
- Alex de Soto
Yes, bring FF koolaid over to FB
- Susan Beebe
Bret said yesterday that no resources from Facebook are being used for FriendFeed.
- michael sean wright
feed fart
- Rob La Gesse
lost the feed
- Susan Beebe
me too
- .LAG liked that
Everything went down
- Robert Scoble
ditto
- Mike Doeff
My Skype disconnected.
- Robert Scoble
gotta love technology
- Susan Beebe
I guess Gillmor's net connection went down.
- Robert Scoble
Please wait while Facebook reboots the Internet
- Rob La Gesse
overheated :)
- Mike Doeff
.LOLz!
- .LAG liked that
OK :D
- Susan Beebe
Hang out a few seconds, let's see if they come back.
- Robert Scoble
Right, the most important issue is getting Fiber to the Curb, Gigabit Internet, that's the real revolution
- Stephen Pickering
We are coming back.
- Robert Scoble
We can talk about the iPad while we wait.
- Rob La Gesse
Good
- Susan Beebe
I'm connected again, be back in a second.
- Robert Scoble
iPad iPad iPad
- Mike Doeff
Facebook as the single point of failure for the Net...
- .LAG liked that
we're back!
- Susan Beebe
Cool.
- Robert Scoble
Once we have fiber, no one will control the internet or be a point of failure
- Stephen Pickering
Whoever controls the fiber will control the Internet - to some extent
- Rob La Gesse
The Fiber Barrons!!!
- Stephen Pickering
That was Enron ;)
- Rob La Gesse
No, wasn't it that Mississippi Company?
- Stephen Pickering
what about authorized apps?
- michael sean wright
I wish Kevin Marks was here, he brought up some technical points that I didn't understand about this on TWiG yesterday
- Stephen Pickering
Somebody needs to do a remedial review of iframes and same origin restrictions.
- Cliff Gerrish
Is there no way, via XSS or other, for a malicious site to grab the iframe content?
- Tinfoil 2.0
How many users are going to understand that the data isn't shared?
- Alex de Soto
The iframed code can get the URL of the parent, but that's it.
- Cliff Gerrish
Kevin brought up that the code they are using, and Gina Tripani agreed, was not open standard
- Stephen Pickering
I mean the code you would put on your site
- Stephen Pickering
Alex: not many
- Robert Scoble
Big difference between an explicit Like button and something like Glue where any pages that you surf to - e.g. an imdb page - show up in your history
- Mike Doeff
Not the code that Kevin developed for Google. And not Activity Streams.
- Cliff Gerrish
oooh I didn't realize that the 3 partners MS, Yelp & Pandora have exclusive / separate data contracts with facebook - NOT same as social plugins...oooo
- Susan Beebe
right - the code is facebook code not standard activity stream.
- michael sean wright
Thanks Cliff and Michael, I wonder if we can get someone to pose the question to Bret about that concern
- Stephen Pickering
Activity stream is an open standard - but this points up the difference between having a standard and 450 million users; and just having a standard.
- Cliff Gerrish
but would you sign one with zynga?
- michael sean wright
we can hear Steve via the building43.com ok
- Susan Beebe
...what about the pRon site that writes a really big check?
- .LAG liked that
Bret, what about a Like button that someone puts on their blog and they configure it with a URL to some spam site - e.g. teeth whitening. How do you prevent that?
- Mike Doeff
Mike - and that's rampant already.
- michael sean wright
Bret - NICE JOB on f8 :) love it
- Susan Beebe
Now time for the iPad phase of the show
- Mike Doeff
Good!! I was worried Steve would end the show. I'm glad he didn't
- Stephen Pickering
Agreed - it's a tectonic shift on web. Facebook just pwnd Google :P
- Susan Beebe
Beacon without the Bacon :)
- Susan Beebe
not only was it a huge shift, it's an over reach on a scale we've never seen.
- michael sean wright
facebook can already segment traffic by geo, gender, age, etc.
- Susan Beebe
Just because Facebook wins, doesn't mean Google loses, this isn't a zero sum game
- Stephen Pickering
the scary thing is the amount of publishers tripping over themselves to give control of their community to facebook.
- michael sean wright
facebook just made static sites instantly social - and ties it all back to the mothership - freakin' awesome move
- Susan Beebe
Static sites still need to include the code -- there's an action that needs to be taken first.
- Cliff Gerrish
Susan, agreed
- Stephen Pickering
What about all of the people opting out of Facebook Instant Personalization? Fringe group or is this the majority? http://search.twitter.com/search...
- Mike Doeff
This re invigorates the Open Web
- Stephen Pickering
Google knows what you search for - YAWN.
- Susan Beebe
Cliff, but there's a big incentive
- Stephen Pickering
Facebook is generating a whole new layer of the social web - THAT's revolutionary
- Susan Beebe
It's the social index vs. the page index.
- Cliff Gerrish
Right - facebook just added huge amount of CONTEXT to page index stats
- Susan Beebe
...so in the end, it's all just another advertising play?
- .LAG liked that
google = small teams working on disparate tools and being fully aware of scrutiny. facebook = full scale push towards $ with 100% focus on the big return.
- michael sean wright
Exactly, but do you know how big the Advertising Market is?
- Stephen Pickering
it's HUGE
- .LAG liked that
disclaimer: I work in advertising
- .LAG liked that
I see the Facebook initiative as part of the maturation of the web. Accountability instead of anonymity becomes the predominant meme.
- Jim Posner
LOL :D
- Susan Beebe
But Michael, if Facebook behaves "evil" the Free Market will regulate them
- Stephen Pickering
Yep, GraphAPI is huge
- Susan Beebe
Social Graph! Network of your friends, shows your connectedness
- Susan Beebe
...that's a lot of biz cards Scobleizer
- .LAG liked that
facebook has acted evil, slow to change and constant confusing changes to policy hasn't hindered them yet. they have not earned our trust yet by default of size we just let it slide.
- michael sean wright
...Michael: that's my biggest concern -- their technology is awesome -- their trustworthiness has not been established
- .LAG liked that
Thank good we're not yet talking about social G-R-A-F-T. You know, implants on your skin that connect to the Network.
- Alex de Soto
All companies have 'acted evil'
- Cliff Gerrish
Alex... FB did announce an RFID product... you will be chipped, eventually
- .LAG liked that
It's the hive mind
- Mike Doeff
So what's the next step with Facebook RFID chip? LBS checkins? obviously, much more *could* be done with it
- Susan Beebe
Big brother :)
- Susan Beebe
Anybody have Gray Powell on their graph?
- Alex de Soto
1984
- Stephen Pickering
the new world will also include a definition of your social graph, the more you interact with a particular node the more prominence it receives.
- michael sean wright
really think the evil vs. non-evil is a cartoonish way to view the world. Only in comics does that world view work.
- Jim Posner
they didn't talk about mobile because geo tagging is not ready yet according to bret
- michael sean wright
I do too
- Stephen Pickering
facebook + docs is very interesting.
- Cliff Gerrish
yes, weird to see M$ & facebook partnership
- Susan Beebe
Susan, not considering their big investment early on
- Stephen Pickering
Ah, good point.
- Susan Beebe
I broke FB -> docs within seconds http://img.skitch.com/2010042...
- Rob La Gesse
Smart move by M$ to instantly get Docs.com to go mainstream by leveraging facebook platform as the backend for collaboration messaging
- Susan Beebe
New often means "broken" these days
- Rob La Gesse
Yes, but it still has to perform. Google Docs will constantly innovate
- Stephen Pickering
I don't see myself using docs.com. I only use MS Office products at work. Outside of work it's all Google Docs for me.
- Mike Doeff
...no company is unstoppable
- .LAG liked that
Correct link :) http://img.skitch.com/2010042...
- Rob La Gesse
I don't see the privacy concern. One can completely lock down their Facebook account if they want
- Stephen Pickering
I am really glad to see Google get some real competition.
- Jim Posner
Robert don't count out Bebo :)
- Mike Doeff
Robert is overstating. Twitter is a Juggernaut too
- Stephen Pickering
Stephen... yes, you can lock down your FB account, but it's not as easy as it might seem, and I suspect 100s of millions of users simply won't spend the time
- .LAG liked that
well said Steve
- Jim Posner
Stephen - a lot of normal users won't know what data is being shared or what the dangers are.
- Michele Neylon
the iPad's not important to justify its own Facebook app
- Tim Jones
Tim - it will be - VERY quickly
- Rob La Gesse
Michele, yes one weird thing I see is that even on completely locked down accounts, one can still see the photos is someone else who isn't locked down comments on one photo, anyone can see not only that photo but the whole album its a part of. Isn't that weird?
- Stephen Pickering
right - facebook is the strongest team, most momentum and brand. think the vulnerability is being too wide. the noise in the stream for the average user will overwhelm them. the general user is a scanner and not going deeper. good opportunity for more specific interest sites to grow. (theory only)
- michael sean wright
Really want to see a facebook app on the iPad
- Jim Posner
Stephen - there's a lot of that kind of thing and it freaks out a lot of people and it's far from easy to see what is or isn't being shared
- Michele Neylon
Do you think Facebook is trying to make a move against Apple for some reason by not putting out a Table app?
- Stephen Pickering
Jim, and when they release that they need to include video support. Very annoying that the FB app on iPhone doesn't support video.
- Mike Doeff
here comes the Android army. welcome Lenovo
- Tim Jones
But Scoble, you have to look at the value of the whole Eco System as a whole
- Stephen Pickering
Zynga are making a LOT of money
- Michele Neylon
85 million on Farmville
- Tim Jones
C'mon there must be some value there, if she wants to play this game
- Stephen Pickering
Steve is right - still early
- Mike Doeff
Would like to see Chrome or Firefox on the iPad
- Jim Posner
Zynga are very good at doing what they do
- Michele Neylon
But its not a competition. You can buy Beatles and Stones albums
- Stephen Pickering
Farmville is boring...and yet strangely addictive
- .LAG liked that
Although at the time, you were either a Beatles or Stones fan.
- Cliff Gerrish
The revolution is being updated.
- Jim Posner
Mafia Wars sucks you in .. no idea why, but it does ..
- Michele Neylon
waiting for capable Android or Win 7 slates
- Tim Jones
The revolution is being updated wirelessly on your mobile device.
- Cliff Gerrish
Michele, your right. It's almost unbelievable that a locked down account is opened simply by another friend commenting on a photo
- Stephen Pickering
the significant shift is the reach of layer facebook now has spread across the web. will be hard to be a layer on top of that.
- michael sean wright
...I like the "LIKE" button, and will be adding it to my sites
- .LAG liked that
I can't believe there hasn't been a lawsuit against that
- Stephen Pickering
Stephen - yup. I can see it happening :) And it won't be one lawsuit - it will be a whole load of them ..
- Michele Neylon
Stephen, Michele... you can prevent that from happening if you dig deep into the FB privacy settings to find the "what your friends share about you" panel...but it's BURIED
- .LAG liked that
in favelas people use netbooks, Nokias, no Apples to be found
- Tim Jones
It's really unbelievable. If I have a locked down account, it's opened simply by one of my friends commenting on one of my photos. Why is there no outcry?
- Stephen Pickering
slums I have been in..didn't have much internet access...they didn't have running water..
- Jim Posner
LAG, ah, IC. Really devious
- Stephen Pickering
So, they're in the letter of the law but not the Spirit
- Stephen Pickering
...I just think FB privacy defaults are bad for users, but GREAT for FB
- .LAG liked that
Addressing privacy concerns is important, but seems to be ignored by the "cool kids"
- Michele Neylon
Thanks Steve, Tina, et al !
- Rob La Gesse
Very good show, guys
- Ian McGee
yes, thanks! l8r
- .LAG liked that
Michele, I agree, the "influencers" are losing credibilty by not crying foul on this
- Stephen Pickering
Stephen: privacy is dead, get over it.
- Robert Scoble
Stephen - they've done more than not cry foul - and there you go - Scoble hath spoken (again)
- Michele Neylon
Robert I'm not worried about it, but if someone does choose to lock down their account, its opened simply by someone commenting on one of their photos. Don't you find that disturbing?
- Stephen Pickering
awesome job
- The Real sofarsoShawn
Stephen: no. Don't put your private pictures on facebook.
- Robert Scoble
I have three naked photos of me on the Internet. I survived.
- Robert Scoble
So will you.
- Robert Scoble
Well, I'm not worried about it myself, My accounts completely open, but I'm just saying for those who truly only want friends and family
- Stephen Pickering
Stephen: if you only want friends and family don't use Facebook. Times change.
- Robert Scoble
Stephen: use SmugMug or Pipio.
- Robert Scoble
Jim , you need to check out the internet cafes in Barangay Magsaysay La Paz Iloilo Philippines. the machines all look like Alienwares
- Tim Jones
OK, OK, I've beat it too death!!! I see your point. I don't know why I'm even arguing it, since all my stuffs open anyway :-))
- Stephen Pickering
Stephen: exactly. Privacy is dead.
- Robert Scoble
Thanks everyone. Great show. Great participation from everyong.
- Cliff Gerrish
Stephen: if it weren't dead everyone would be moving to Pip.io.
- Robert Scoble
Stephen: and they are not. So the argument is over.
- Robert Scoble
Tim-Actually was in Tondo...not so much internet when I was there..but it's been a few years
- Jim Posner
Well, I'm just playing devils advocate. I've been excited by yesterday
- Stephen Pickering
Stephen: me too. I'm listening to Tom Conrad's Pandora. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Robert, that's bs about privacy being dead. here's my argument http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Stephen - just because Scoble likes to put naked photos of himself on the internet doesn't mean that other people want to.
- Michele Neylon
Yeah, that is just too cool, agreed
- Stephen Pickering
Marshall: if your argument had any weight everyone would be leaving Facebook. They aren't. The argument is over.
- Robert Scoble
Michele: I'm sure that that Apple guy wants his iPhone back too. It ain't gonna happen and we'll have to deal with the new world we all live in.
- Robert Scoble
Well Michele, .LAG did inform us that it could be done, a complete lock down, so that's that
- Stephen Pickering
really? people all over the world have been freaking out about Facebook's removal of privacy, I've been doing interviews with media outlets all over the world about it.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
and I think that's a logical fallacy
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Robert, your cavalier statements about privacy are dangerous and betray a lack of understanding.
- Tinfoil 2.0
Damn, my heads hurting
- Stephen Pickering
Marshall: I'm sure they are freaking out. But are they leaving? No.
- Robert Scoble
...this after-chat is better than the show!
- .LAG liked that
LogEx: I bet I understand privacy in more depth than you do.
- Robert Scoble
Stephen - the problem is that most people aren't aware of how much data they are sharing. Scoble's argument is incredibly weak.
- Michele Neylon
they can't leave Robert, their friends and family connections are trapped there
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Exactly, let the Free Market decide
- Stephen Pickering
Robert, easy to say with no possible way to prove.
- Tinfoil 2.0
LogEx: have you seen a Scoble sex video? I do have privacy. It is not dead. But a lot of my privacy is dead.
- Robert Scoble
Marshall - exactly
- Michele Neylon
So it's irresponsible to say that privacy is dead and leave it at that. Because it's a lie.
- Tinfoil 2.0
LogEx: I have studied privacy and our changing society in more depth than anyone.
- Robert Scoble
Michele, that's a good point: you simply don't know how much is out there on FB, because you only see it through YOUR lens...
- .LAG liked that
LogEx: I just am bored with the argument as framed.
- Robert Scoble
Between yesterday and this http://librarianbyday.net/2010..., my heart is just about done with FB.
- Christopher Galtenberg
Yeah, I am too. Let's look at the Good Side at what they are doing.
- Stephen Pickering
LogEx: it's irresponsible to want to live in the world as it existed two days ago That world is gone. That's why it is NOT irresponsible to tell people that our ideas about privacy are dead.
- Robert Scoble
LogEx - agreed.
- Michele Neylon
LogEx: we all need to change our ideas about what privacy is and we need new skills to deal with the changing privacy world.
- Robert Scoble
People have choices. My Sister chooses not to be on Facebook and she is happy with her life
- Stephen Pickering
i usually don't worry about what mainstream people want or need, i just focus on what's interesting to me, but the privacy stuff is really dangerous and irresponsible
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
The less privacy, the less meaningful the sharing will be.
- Christopher Galtenberg
LogEx: for instance, I don't check in at home on Foursquare. I could, but I don't. Why is that?
- Robert Scoble
Robert, you are a public figure. You CHOOSE to have reduced privacy and enhanced publicity. Don't remove choice from the rest of the society just because it suits you better.
- Tinfoil 2.0
Because you have a free will and take responsibility for yourself
- Stephen Pickering
Marshall: the changing world is dangerous and irresponsible. 40,000 people die in cars every year. That worries more than if my naked photos are on the Internet.
- Robert Scoble
LogEx - exactly. If there was any level of privacy Scoble would cease to exist, as he only exists in public
- Michele Neylon
LogEx: EVERYONE is a public figure if they are on the Internet.
- Robert Scoble
Michele: bullshit.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I think it would depend on which photos those were.
- Cliff Gerrish
Michele: I existed before the Internet.
- Robert Scoble
Michele that's unfair. He's got a private life
- Stephen Pickering
Robert, one of my favorite examples: I had a friend tell me about people she knew who wanted to be Fans of a podcast for couples struggling to conceive children, but they didn't want family etc. to know about it. they used to be able to subscribe via Fandom privately, then that was made irrevocably public. why on earth are my subscriptions (facebook likes) not able to be private??
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
.LOLz! @Cliff
- .LAG liked that
Stephen - I'm sure he does
- Michele Neylon
Marshall Because they are not. Deal with it.
- Robert Scoble
But he chooses to share what he chooses to share and we all have that choice which is great
- Stephen Pickering
Marshall: I choose to live in the world as it is, not how I wish it to be. Although the world as I wish it to be makes for good blog posts.
- Robert Scoble
Stephen - that's not entirely true. I have the choice to take my car's engine apart, but I don't know how.
- Michele Neylon
Damn! I missed the show today.. I'm sure it was a good one. Hopefully a recorded archive will be up very soon!
- Kevin Costain
Marshall: Microsoft execs thought their emails were private too. Was it a shame that they were shared in public due to DOJ action?
- Robert Scoble
Targeted 'likes' to a private group -- sounds like a FriendFeed feature.
- Cliff Gerrish
well, the world as it is is a mess, i don't know why you don't want to use this huge platform you have to point out when things are moving far away from what you wish they'd be
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Marshall: I just don't put ANYTHING on a computer that I don't wish to have on the front page of the New York Times.
- Robert Scoble
We've had good discussions on this in the past. We're using *companies* to put things online. The only sane assumption should be zero privacy.
- Christopher Galtenberg
Marshall: and note that my drunken photos were on Techcrunch. I survived. Privacy is dead.
- Robert Scoble
Christopher: exactly. If it touches the keyboard it can be public.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: It is a great policy to do that - but there are places where private data does exist on computers. Where do you put your accounting data or stuff like that?
- Kevin Costain
well, for hundreds of millions of people they can either have private and secure Facebook communication with the people in their lives or they have no communication with them at all
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Christopher: the more people understand that the better off we'll all be.
- Robert Scoble
The fact that you survived is not equal to the idea that privacy is dead. Privacy is just a little more subtle now. More public signaling channels are available.
- Cliff Gerrish
Kevin: and how many "private" Twitter documents leaked onto Techcrunch. You can never assume total privacy.
- Robert Scoble
Marshall: give me a break. Most of us don't care about privacy.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, you aren't a woman who escaped an abusive relationship who wants to communicate securely and privately with an online support network. there are power issues at play, your drunk pics totally different
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
The only rub to this is that soon companies will force information out of you, because they only do business online, and they're the only option.
- Christopher Galtenberg
Robert, you have little credibility about privacy due to your hyperbole, and your vested interest in no privacy.
- Tinfoil 2.0
I like keeping my bank account info private..that privacy is not dead yet.
- Jim Posner
Marshall: most of the women I know who were abused were abused by people they knew in real life.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: those twitter docs were probably intended to be private - but at the smae time twitters internal financials weren't what was leaked.
- Kevin Costain
Jim: http://blippy.com
- Robert Scoble
totally, and then they want to communicate free of scrutiny from abusers, what's your point?
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Kevin: other companies have had their internal financials leaked.
- Robert Scoble
Bippy is opt-in
- Jim Posner
Kevin: and go with Zappos. They put their internal financials up on a white board in their lobby for everyone to see.
- Robert Scoble
Jim: yes. And so is Facebook.
- Robert Scoble
Blippy reminds me of paintings in the renaissance -- people had painters include the expensive items they could afford in their portraits. Another form of social signaling.
- Cliff Gerrish
Jim: so is turning on a computer.
- Robert Scoble
Hey, Robert, side note, do you agree with Gruber that Gizmodo should be prosecuted? Just curious. I don't know how I feel about it
- Stephen Pickering
Robert: Expectation of privacy is one thing.. and I agree that we cannot have an expectation. But, the other important thing is there is also data intended to be private.
- Kevin Costain
Agree..I still think there is privacy. email is still private..your salary is still private
- Jim Posner
Stephen: I wouldn't mind if Gizmodo were prosecuted. They received stolen property and profited off of it.
- Robert Scoble
When you type your pin in an atm (and that may be the only place you expose it electronically), should you have a reasonable expectation that that info will stay private?
- Kevin Costain
Apparently it's some kind of utopia when everything that individuals do is fully transparent, but governments and corporations are increasingly non-transparent? Wow.
- Tinfoil 2.0
Jim: my salary has been discussed on the Internet, actually.
- Robert Scoble
Well, LogEx, you know the Golden Rule: He who has the Gold Rules!
- Stephen Pickering
Jim: it wasn't quite an accurate number, but that's cause a lot of my compensation is bonuses.
- Robert Scoble
...last week, Jerry Jones, owner of the Dallas Cowboys, was videotaped (camphone-taped) in a bar, having a "private" conversation where he made scathing remarks about a former head coach and some NFL draft prospects. the video ended up on YouTube and become a lead story on ESPN. I suppose the only place to expect privacy is inside your own home
- .LAG liked that
LAG: I don't expect privacy in my own home, either.
- Robert Scoble
...we have to draw the line somewhere, no?
- .LAG liked that
Privacy is what other people agree not to pass on.
- Cliff Gerrish
LAG: I do what I can to keep you from filming a sex video of me, but I'm sure sometime something will get out that I didn't expect to get out.
- Robert Scoble
Robert-There is alot of confidential information on computers that is private...IPSEC
- Jim Posner
Cliff: exactly.
- Robert Scoble
we all live in glass houses then
- .LAG liked that
Jim: yes. And a lot of that data leaks. Microsoft's emails, for instance.
- Robert Scoble
LAG: if you live your life like that then you'll never have any problems. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Should someone who wants to be private, be given it? Is it at least a basic human right?
- Kevin Costain
agreed
- .LAG liked that
by the way, if you have a sex video, you can see it on an Android, but not an iPhone
- Tim Jones
I agree with your assumption though..all data should be expected to become public and treated as such
- Jim Posner
Kevin: no. Just ask Bernie Ward. He was arrested for distributing child pornography.
- Robert Scoble
Hey can I ask you guys a question? The other day Sarah Lane posted a question on Twitter. I copied and pasted it to Leo's chat room without saying it was from her because I was being lazy, and they tore me too pieces that I didn't "credit" her and even when I tried to explain the admin called me "Scum" trying to mine "his" chat room so that I could take credit. Was I in the wrong that bad to be called "Scum"?
- Stephen Pickering
Tim: Steve Jobs is lying about that. My iPhone gets porn just fine.
- Robert Scoble
Stephen: you should see what I'm called on YouTube.
- Robert Scoble
darn, you Mr Scoble
- Tim Jones
Hehehehehe, it just got to me when I tried to explain to "Dan" over their that I was going to tell her I got the answer from them, and he was like "Sure, you Scum" I was like "Whoa"
- Stephen Pickering
Stephen: I'm not sure. Sometimes online communities turn very mean and attack wrongly.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: You do make good points. It could be considered the best way to live and stay honest if you expect eveverything to be public at some point..
- Kevin Costain
so the Privacy Settings on FB are essentially useless
- .LAG liked that
IC, ok, thanks.
- Stephen Pickering
Kevin: that won't stop me from getting drunk in London and wearing a pink wig again. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Robert, that's really sad that you don't trust your family enough that "I don't expect privacy in my own home"
- Tinfoil 2.0
Robert: lol.. I'm sure all that Tequila I drank in Venezuela will come back to haunt me one day too..
- Kevin Costain
LogEx: who said it would be my family? I might leave a microphone open. And if I send child porn I won't have any privacy.
- Robert Scoble
Kevin: can you click like on the brand of Tequila? :-)
- Robert Scoble
Conflating consequences of criminal actions with the loss of people's fundamental human right to privacy isn't very helpful.
- Tinfoil 2.0
LogEx: also if you can see into your house from a public street, as you can see into mine, you have no privacy by law unless you close the window blinds.
- Robert Scoble
Allright, great show, overall I am very excited about what's happening. I don't know how I got to arguing about Privacy. I guess I playing devils advocate. But its all good. See you guys later. Thanks for the chat!!!!!!
- Stephen Pickering
...privacy concerns aside, the LIKE button everywhere is going to be HUGE
- .LAG liked that
Robert: I don't think you can - Tequila is not a brand - El Jimador, that's a brand.. or the Agua Dente.. that stuff was harsh..
- Kevin Costain
LogEx: sorry, there is no privacy if you are doing something on the Internet. That's my whole point.
- Robert Scoble
But.. I have to run a ravage a couple Citrix servers.. the work never ends.. sorry I missed the show..
- Kevin Costain
...well, i think that "closing the blinds" kind of privacy is what some people are expecting with their data
- .LAG liked that
LogEx: you can have some expectation of privacy, yes, but I find that that expectation changes overtime. I'm sure the child pornographer expects privacy too.
- Robert Scoble
...but you make a good point Scoble: if you're on the Net, there are no blinds... and there is no spoon
- .LAG liked that
LAG: Microsoft execs had ALL their email put into public. Even ones that didn't break the law.
- Robert Scoble
LAG: and I'm sure they had an expectation of privacy. (Not any longer).
- Robert Scoble
mortifying
- .LAG liked that
LAG: this is why I say Privacy is Dead. It's easier than to try to figure out when things will really be private and when they won't.
- Robert Scoble
LAG: talk to a teenager sometime. You'll learn a whole new language about privacy. They've figured out how to live in public and still have privacy.
- Robert Scoble
LAG: for instance, maybe if we want to be private here we'll make up a secret language that only me and you can understand.
- Robert Scoble
I'm not really Tim..I'm a one legged dog that goes by the name...Lucky
- Tim Jones
...they created whole new language
- .LAG liked that
LAG: PGP does that too. Want my key? :-)
- Robert Scoble
Tim: we're all dogs on the Internet. :-)
- Robert Scoble
...I guess there's opportunities for cryptographic software makers
- .LAG liked that
LAG: yes, there is. The question is do enough people really care about privacy? Marshall does not a market make. ;-)
- Robert Scoble
...the whole PGP-key sharing thing, it's too geeky... will never work in a mass market product
- .LAG liked that
...my 72-yr-old mom won't know what to do with that
- .LAG liked that
LAG: I know one company building it into their social network.
- Robert Scoble
...but she's expect that her emails are private
- .LAG liked that
if they can make encryption brain-dead simple, it will catch on
- .LAG liked that
...then you could have some of the privacy people seem to want
- .LAG liked that
...oh crap! this conversation's been gr8... I'm late for a meeting! thanks for the insights Robert....l8r!
- .LAG liked that
LAG: she can live with that idea. But wait until she leaves her laptop signed in somewhere and her grandaugther gets a look.
- Robert Scoble
Anyway, gotta run.
- Robert Scoble
Hey is Robert still here? I meant to ask him what he's going to be doing in Israel, if he can make it
- Stephen Pickering
apparently, even smoke signals had distinctive signatures of their sender. Running Wolf's smokes were a bit puffier compared to Screaming Eagle
- Tim Jones
Robert, still there?
- Stephen Pickering
Allright, I'll find out in good time :-) Just curious
- Stephen Pickering
all the time
- rose-angela
"For all two of you out there, thank you, FriendFeed users" - http://parislemon.com/post...
Morton Fox liked this
Is this why you're not supposed to be sarcastic in press conferences ;)
- Bret Taylor
from iPhone
there are probably even more than 2 FF for iPhone users still!
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Beyond Street View: Google Begin Going Inside Businesses - http://digg.com/travel_...
"280 diggs and no front page??"
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Beyond Street View: Google Begin Going Inside Businesses - http://digg.com/travel_...
"It is a little creepy isn't it? Seems like airport drags might be the next step."
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Beyond Street View: Google Begin Going Inside Businesses - http://digg.com/travel_...
"Link?"
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Beyond Street View: Google Begin Going Inside Businesses - http://digg.com/travel_...
"Straight up photos first, then will stitch them into panoramic shots. Pretty sweet."
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
just heard moo.com is moving into tupperware printing...
bullshit
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Other ways to read this feed:
