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What'd you do if you knew you're dying? He wrote a book to push for Wall Street reform > http://www.mercurynews.com/busines... #fb

October 8, 2010 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

AainaA-Ridtz A.R and Sinclair Lin liked this

Michael Fidler

These are all done in Pencil.

March 18, 2009 - Comment - Like - Share

Brent - Yes I am, Jeff (Team マクダジ ), Behnam B and 269 other people liked this

Impressive - M F

77 more comments

Great work! - Neya

I'm sorry but this is unbelievable:) I'll give credit to the artist upon more convincing proof! The photogenic look of the tiger and lion really helps the artist's case though:) - Roney Smith

I'm with Roney... I find this hard to believe... or maybe I'm just jealous that I can't even get stick people right! - Jasmin Smith

I don't believe it. Too amazing. - Rah-PM 2012

I'm with Rah - Shey

Only the lion looks like its drawn - embee

The bear and rhino look drawn, too. - Chris Charabaruk

very very talented. Wow they look like B&W pics you know photography. - Gabriella Sannino

These are amazing, were they done by you? - Angelo Rodrigues

Nice photographs - Rafael Robayna

@michael, if they weren't drawn by you, at least tell us who the artist is and the link - LouCypher

Link please? - Jason Wehmhoener

wow - Carolyn Chan

being slightly skeptical, i'm going to say these were done with pencil by a printer of some sorts... #justsayin - Enrique Gutierrez

they're beautiful, but skeptical as well - Jennifer Van Grove

Would need to see higher quality images to see if they are pencil or not - too many jpg artifacts to tell. - Luke Addison from twhirl

Stupefied. - Parth Awasthi

Wow!! Yeah it's pretty amazing what they can draw with a pencil nowadays, deviantART has lots of great pencil art. - Kol Tregaskes

Michael, who is the artist? - Kol Tregaskes

wow, cool! - Sarah Perez

I'm really happy everyone liked these. They're my most liked entry to date, Thanks! There also seems to be some question about whether these are actually Pencil Drawings.I can assure you that they are.When I get home, I should have the links. I have more drawings, too. - Michael Fidler from fftogo

O_O WOW...Stunning - Anna Haro

Wow, these are stunning!! - Susan Beebe

Yes, especially the tiger. Reminds me of that "Tiger, tiger burning bright." - Melanie Reed

Alright, Mike - I believe you. These are awesome. Good job! - Enrique Gutierrez

HOLY CRAP. - Chieze Okoye

no way! - Mister Groonk

Thanks Enrique, I'll post some more soon. They are a little more obvious than these ones. As Luke points out; without being able to look closely it's impossible to tell. He's right; but up close it's more obvious. I'll upload the originals to Picasa later, and then you'll be able to zoom in with any photo viewer and see for yourselves. I can't believe how many people liked these. A few people have reposted them already. Thanks! - Michael Fidler

Absolutely awesome, Michael. You are extremely talented. Everyone should repost these pix and help to make you famous. You should be doing this full time - you obviously have some passion for this. Bravo. - Chris Loft

These are really beautiful, Michael. Do you sell them? - Shannon Jiménez

Chris, I would love to say they're mine, but it's not true. I've had them for a while, but I'll find the artists names. It will just require a little backtracking. Besides, they deserve the credit; all I did was find them:-) - Michael Fidler

Cut the bullshit! :) Photos are very good. - Burçak Çubukçu

I draw alot in pencil, but they are amazing, the best for me is the girl, that is the most photo-like one. :o) - Rob Sellen :o)

I agree Rob, the girl is amazing. My favorite by far! Wait until you see it close up! It's really had to tell, even up close! - Michael Fidler

Burçak Çubukçu If these were photographs, they would be very good. As Pencil Drawings,(which they are), they're amazing. - Michael Fidler

Wow, amazingly realistic - Threepwood

@Michael Fidler did you draw them? How can you so sure? - Burçak Çubukçu

That is my pencil drawing :) http://picasaweb.google.com/Burcak... - Burçak Çubukçu

dont look like it - Prakash

@ Michael Fidler don't push so hard :) - Burçak Çubukçu

@Burçak Çubukçu I can't tell if your serious now or just kidding around. I hope your just having fun! If you are serious, I've never given you a reason to question my integrity, nor do I ever intend to. However, the second set is up now, so judge them for yourself, but don't judge me! http://ff.im/1BJh5 BTW, I messed up and reposted the shot of the women again. Oh well. Hope you like them:-) - Michael Fidler

@Michael: try deviantART, not Picasa, to submit your artworks - LouCypher

WOW "I can't believe it's in pencil" - The Real sofarsoShawn

LouCypher, I know it well, but I don't see why I would want to do that. I hope everyone knows by now that they're not mine? I'm sorry, but I can't say it any clearer than that. - Michael Fidler

nah, i don't believe it is done in pencil. i am sure it is photoshopped :) - hasin hayder

These would be great even for photos. - Sullivan

i'm not able to comprehend - Varun Shenoy

More comments here: http://www.bannination.com/comment... - donato

I'm finding this both interesting and humorous at the same time. There's a separate message board where this post is being discussed and it has another forty comments on it already. I think its great how this has created some lively discussion, considering that when I posted this I was doubtful if anyone would even like it. When I went to sleep last night there was only had 3 or 4 likes... more... - Michael Fidler

Very interesting. I would like to see them up close and in person...just to make sure. Bill said it's real and possible. Your 2nd set of picts look like pencil. Nice work in finding these! - LaFern Cusack

Kol, I can't thank you enough! Kol found another post which helps to prove that these are done in pencil. I had my doubts about a few of them because I collected them from several different sites over time, but the site Kol found has done a great job pulling together an impressive collection of these drawings and more. Take a look - http://www.flickzzz.com/2009... - Michael Fidler

Actually there are more than what this site shows. There's an entire set with the cats(little cats), which I have, and there's a new portrait set. - Michael Fidler

Found your post here, Michael. :-) I tried my best to find the artists. - Kol Tregaskes

Amazing and very very very good.... Very impressive ... - Linda Zeek-Bobinski

fake. http://lenscratch.blogspot.com/2009... Even if your not claiming to be the artist, these are photographs, well except the woman, thats pencil - james foor

Yeah we know, thanks though, James. :-) - Kol Tregaskes

Excellent pictures - how long did it take you to scan the photographs into Photoshop and then edit them? The only pencil that has come into contact with these "drawings" is the Photoshop pencil. A tip - stop trying to fool people into thinking you are a "real" artist, because all you are doing is cheapening proper artist's works whom have spent hours creating real pictures as opposed to a few minutes on a graphics editing package. - The Wimp

A bell does ring here. And I am remembering why I was so attracted to the tiger...and the lion for that matter. These are exact replicas of prints I had in our bedroom when I lived in Dallas. I had bought the prints (in color) at a department store, - Melanie Reed

Actually, I have learned quite a bit about these drawing since I made this post. Not only have I discovered all of the artists, but I've learned more about how they are created. They are always copied from a photograph or painting, but usually a photograph. It is extremely time consuming and detail orientated work. There are many other artists besides the ones featured here who practice... more... - Michael Fidler

Most of them have portfolio's on deviantart.com and their work is truly amazing even if they are copies of other artists work. I suppose with this level of detail, they have to start with something. Nevertheless, I'm still in awe of their talent. Melanie, the animal prints you refer to are from a very well renowned photographer. The originals are B&W I'll look it up later but I do have... more... - Michael Fidler

wow; they're unbelieavably beautiful. - liladreams

Has anyone ever corrected the record and pointed out, with the exception of the Charlize Theron drawing, that these are indeed photos by Alexander Von Reiswitz? - erik weisz

Erik, thank you for bringing this up again, but I think I already mentioned something about this in my prior comment. However, since it appears that you only signed up to friendfeed to leave a single comment, (ok, why?) I will try to summarize what I wrote previously. In brief, I learned after doing a little research that all photo-realistic drawings like the ones that I shared here,... more... - Michael Fidler

Awesome - الکامپ

I can assure you that what are claimed to be drawings of animals, in your post here, are photos. I used a website to that allows you to do an comparison of the Von Reiswitz photos and the images you have posted here. There are no differences. Every hair matches up. As a pencil artist myself I can tell you that it's pretty much impossible to get that kind of accuracy and have it look... more... - erik weisz

but... it has to be real, i saw it on the internet - Iphigenie

Eric, it doesn't matter to me if you just joined, and I apologize if I made you think otherwise. If you have any questions regarding friendfeed, please feel free to ask and I will do my best to answer them. At this point, I would be happy if we could find someone who is an image analysis expert, and finally point this thing to rest. Every time that I look into this, all I find is a... more... - Michael Fidler

the site spammed above must all be done in pencil too, right, thats why you posted it? - Iphigenie

I'm amazed that people are still posting these photographs of animals and calling them pencil drawings. This is at least the third case I can remember (and there are probably more) of this happening. The myth about them being drawings was debunked long ago. It's also funny that whenever they get posted the person posting them doesn't make it clear that they aren't the artist, exactly as you have done. - canadianmaple09

@canadianmaple09 I posted these back in March, 2009 when I was beginning to use FF regularly. I ran them through TinEye hoping to find their source, but it returned no results. When I ran through again yesterday, TinEye returned over four pages of results. If I had it to do over again, would I? Yes - Michael Fidler

The people you refer do don't join "just to slam" someone, they are concerned members of the online art community that want to see real art appreciated and fake art or photos being passed off as drawings revealed for what they really are. Artists such as Brian Duey, Armin Mersmann, Paul Lung, Zindy Nielsen,and many others do not receive the appreciation they deserve because of scams like this. - canadianmaple09

canadianmaple09, the worthiness of your motives notwithstanding (and they are worthy, definitely) you could definitely have approached Michael completely differently by say, giving him the benefit of the doubt rather than attacking in a highly accusatory tone. - Chieze Okoye

When you've seen these same pictures posted multiple times by people that just find them on the internet and claim they are pencil drawings, when it has already been established on multiple occasions that they are not, the "benefit of the doubt" approach seems a little too generous. People post these images and claim they're drawings to get views for their own site or blog or page or whatever it is they post it on. It's wrong and it needs to be stopped. - canadianmaple09

I can understand that, but you should also keep in mind that everyone is not as well-versed in the issue as you are. All I'm saying is that you would probably be more effective in this case if you weren't setting this up as a us-vs.-them, "must destroy with the validity my argument!" attitude when talking to a guy who's been actively having a discussion on the issue in what seems to me (having been around when he first posted the images and the follow up thread and what not) to be good faith. - Chieze Okoye

Look at his first comment here. People clearly thought he drew them. He doesn't set the record straight. He also claims that they "are actually pencil drawings" and that "I have more drawings too." Later he claims that you need to look at them closer to see they are drawings and that he will "post the originals". Once again, this makes it sound like they are his. This follows the same... more... - canadianmaple09

Greg and Chieze, thanks for your support. I really appreciate it. @canadianmaoles09, for what it’s worth, I share your concerns about giving proper attribution when sharing also. However, I admit that I'm more conscious of it now than I was at the time of this post. Nevertheless, I have never taken credit for anybody's work here other than my own! - Michael Fidler

BTW, I didn't realize it before, but I just noticed that you're new here too. I hope you like it so far and spend more time here. IMO, friendfeed is still the best thing around! - Michael Fidler

I would probably qualify as an image analysis expert, but there's no way to prove that online. One thing we can do is look at color. Even though the images are black and white,they're actually RGB images, meaning they contain cyan magenta and yellow. If you look at the image of the rhino you have posted then look at the photo of the rhino at the photographer's site you can see they both... more... - erik weisz

Penny Power

21 years today since I kissed my husband @thomaspower for the first time! 21 years of happiness - thank you xx

May 6, 2010 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

My Path Builder, Barbara Nugent, Christy Shore and 3 other people liked this

wow - Thomas Power

3 more comments

You have been blessed to be so lucky in relationship as many are not. - Sam Borrett

Congratulations, Love Sam - Sam Borrett

How sweet that you remeber this date Penny. That must have been some fist kiss. Congratulations! - Barbara Nugent

Fantastic!! I wonder how many men would remember a date like that! I know fair few who wouldn't. Beautiful thought to tell the grand kids. - Ian Wright

Paul Buchheit

It's interesting that having my FriendFeed and Twitter set to public is completely unremarkable, but my using the same setting on Facebook seems like a big deal, e.g. http://blogs.wsj.com/digits...

May 5, 2010 - Comment - Like - Share

Dave Martin, Glenn Slaven, Zu from AOD and 89 other people liked this

The first sentence of that article should explain the difference to you. If it doesn't, then I think you need to lay off the Kool-Aid for a bit. It's clouding your mind. - Akiva

293 more comments

Were either Friendfeed, or Twitter, sold as a private place to interact with friends, to begin with? - Jimminy, CoG of FF

Akiva, putting those two sentences next to each other does not mean that they are logically connected. I chose to make my settings more public. Why is that an issue? - Paul Buchheit

Doesn't your Facebook profile have things like address and phone number? - Gabe

Yeah, as I mentioned, I don't make phone and email public because I don't want sales calls or whatever. - Paul Buchheit

"We made the site so that all of our members are a part of smaller networks like schools, companies or regions, so you can only see the profiles of people who are in your networks and your friends. We did this to make sure you could share information with the people you care about. This is the same reason we have built extensive privacy settings — to give you even more control over who you share your information with." - Mark Zuckerberg 9/8/06 - http://blog.facebook.com/blog... - Carter ♥ HTML5

That's not the issue, Paul. The issue is that the privacy settings in Facebook can cause people to 'unwittingly expose' information about themselves. My FriendFeed and Twitter accounts are also public but I don't have my home address or phone number or anything linked to those accounts. You, of course, are far more educated about Internet privacy and whatnot than, say, Grandma Indiana... more... - Akiva

The point being that Facebook level-set their users to expect privacy as the DEFAULT. Twitter and Friendfeed never did that. - Carter ♥ HTML5

Akiva, I'm pretty sure the default for home address and phone number is not "public". I only adjusted my defaults to make them more public, not less. - Paul Buchheit

I think the 'big deal' portion has everything to do with original intent and marketing - Twitter and FF haven't been marketed as private. Facebook very explicitly started that way. In migrating away from their original ideas, the FB team as not been a) open or b) responsive about privacy concerns. I really respect your work, but FB staff dismissing these concerns because they don't... more... - Jennifer Dittrich

A Twitter or FriendFeed profile doesn't list your address, phone number, schools you attended, employer, personal interests, family members, birthdate, etc. If you fill in the blanks on a Facebook profile, all of that is shown. - Rochelle

+1 Rochelle. - Jeff (Team マクダジ )

Paul, you might be right. When I signed up for Facebook, the first thing I did was lock down everything that I wanted locked down. But not everyone is going to understand that. And it doesn't help that you guys are consistently changing (you may say, refining) how privacy is controlled which just adds to everyone's confusion. Combine that with the fact that it seems like your boss is... more... - Akiva

Perhaps you're reading too much into what I said. All I said was that I made my stuff mostly public, and that I've gotten a lot of value out of that. - Paul Buchheit

I think we'll all look back on this transition from "privacy is essential" to "privacy is an obstacle" to be on the biggest bait-and-switches ever executed at scale (400+ million people). - Carter ♥ HTML5

I locked down everything... And then everytime some new "feature" rolls out, I need to go back and "re-lockdown" stuff... It's annoying - Jeff (Team マクダジ )

I probably have, Paul. I think I just saw your statement in contrast with the article and went with that. - Akiva

+1 Carter re: biggest bait-and-switches ever executed at scale. - Alex Schleber

I'm curious what everyone here is putting on their fb that is so secret? Maybe I'm doing it wrong. There are certainly things that I don't want out there (like my credit card numbers), but I'm not going to put that on my fb profile. - Paul Buchheit

I don't think it's so much the information as it is the principle of the matter. But maybe that's just me. - Derrick

Btw, I agree that there is a legitimate debate with respect to the way in which Facebook updates defaults, but that wasn't the topic we were discussing. - Paul Buchheit

Really Paul? Look, in all likelihood Facebook, Zuck, and you are succeeding at pulling one over on hundreds of millions of people. And you know exactly what you're doing. Fine, you win, but please spare us this "innocent from the country" routine. A certain class of people (read tech geeks) are not fooled for one second. - Alex Schleber

What Derrick said. - Rochelle

Humor me Alex. I'm genuinely curious what people are most fearful about. - Paul Buchheit

Example: I have friends on Capitol Hill in DC who are insanely paranoid about their public image, but still like sharing some fun photos or stories with close friends. That's one use case. There are MANY more. Please don't treat yourself as representative of 400 million people. - Carter ♥ HTML5

It's simple really: I use Facebook to communicate with my Family and Friends. Those communications are *not public* and they're damn well going to stay that way. FriendFeed/Twitter are not places where I talk to family and friends. - Otto

For example, why does one need to share a real name, or phone number at all? You don't have to do that with FriendFeed, or Twitter. Can you do that on Facebook at all? - Derrick

The problem I have with the Facebook deal is that it was a bait and switch. They got people to sign up with this understanding that your info was in a closed system and seemingly secure unless you didn't want it to be. Then, after they got everyone to input their info, they said, "Hey, we changed our mind; we're going to give it to advertisers anyway. Quit if you want." - rowlikeagirl

Paul: I get value out of having Twitter and FF completely public. Thats not the issue. The issue here is that FB was originally sold as a private service. Another thing. You and I may have seen value out of being completely public, but the only value to anyone about Grandma Indinana being completely public belongs to the knitting accessories advertisers. - Roberto Bonini

Paul, for me, it's not a matter of fear but a matter of ownership. I'm definitely on the more paranoid end of the scale as I'm only marginally comfortable for people to know even what city I live in. On the other end of that spectrum are guys like Robert and Louis who put their cell phone number on the web and welcome people to call. I don't want any of my information going out of my... more... - Akiva

It's simple, Paul. While I agree that I myself never put much of anything into Facebook I might live to regret, the same isn't true for everybody else. Several examples curated over here: http://alexschleber.amplify.com/2010... - Alex Schleber

This "value to advertisers" meme is interesting. It gets repeated a lot by bloggers, but nobody ever explains what any of this has to do with advertising. Ad targetting could be done regardless of privacy settings (just as Google does). - Paul Buchheit

I have no problem talking to the world about things going on in the world. But that is definitely *NOT* what I use Facebook for. I use Facebook to talk to people I know about things going in our daily lives. I use it to communicate with my BBQ team members. I use it to talk to my mom and dad. None of that is useful for anybody else to know. Nothing I post on Facebook is useful in a... more... - Otto

You have a BBQ team? Is that as awesome as it sounds? - Paul Buchheit

Yes. :) http://www.thequesbrothers.com - Otto

Re "value to advertisers": by making more of FB public/open/crawlable, you can increase the volume of traffic/pageviews and ultimately increase impressions/clicks. Money in the bank. - Carter ♥ HTML5

And for the record I don't have a FB account. In the old days, snail mail mostly guaranteed privacy for your communications by virtue of the fact that your communiques were physically sealed by you. That essentially is the analogue version of FB pre privacy changes, albeit not at scale. In other words, privacy was implicit in the social convention of exchanging snail mails. With FB,... more... - Roberto Bonini

Can anyone show up to those competitions and eat the food, or do you have to be judge or something? I'd seriously consider making the trip. - Paul Buchheit

"Privacy is hard; let's have a BBQ!" :) - Benjamin Golub

Judging is a process that requires certification and a class, sort of thing. However, the WCBCC here in Memphis next week has a "People’s Choice" category. Basically you pay like $4 and get to judge 5 different samples from 5 different teams. Repeat as many times as you want: http://memphisinmay.org/peoples... And then, of course, if you know somebody on the teams, and can talk 'em into it, then it's all you can eat... :) - Otto

You cannot argue with a thread that gets derailed by BBQ. It's against the law. - Akiva

Carter, I doubt it. Fb has a completely ridiculous number of page views already. The bump from searching random status messages or whatever would not be significant. - Paul Buchheit

Speaking of profiles: Benjamin, you need to update yours to say "Facebooker", right? ;) - Carter ♥ HTML5

Wow, I'm definitely going to have to go to memphisinmay sometime. - Paul Buchheit

Paul, you can NEVER have too much traffic. Come on... anyway, this thread has made me hungry. And it's only 11am PST! :( - Carter ♥ HTML5

Carter: As far as I know people that work here don't call themselves Facebookers. But I have that exact question listed in my Twitter profile: http://twitter.com/bgolub - Benjamin Golub

Dang, now I want bbq. - Derrick

"I promise Facebook will or will not take over the world with Likes, targeted ads, and evil privacy violat... oh look, there's a shiny BBQ object over here..." :( - Alex Schleber

Paul, the issue is choice. Facebook users used to be more private by the nature of what Facebook was. It's great if some people want to be more public, but in the process of adding those features, Facebook has most definitely removed choices to keep many things private and essentially coerced more public settings, but yet still operates under a model where people's profiles are expected... more... - Tinfoil 2.0 from iPhone

I'm really glad Paul's talking about this - I wish more of the Facebook team would talk about intentions. I hear a lot through personal connections, but nothing makes a bigger difference than the internal team being willing to talk about this stuff with the public. - Jesse Stay

I have no problems with aspects of my profile being public, but IMO the problem is that Facebook tends to go with default opt-in often enough, and in general isn't consistent with how changes are implemented and doesn't necessarily make it easy for users to know exactly what they're doing. - Deepak Singh

+1 Jesse (as another FBer) - Ashwin Bharambe

Here's my opinion: Facebook is in a no-win situation. If they stay private, everyone criticizes them as a "walled garden", and they can't grow as fast either. If they go public (yet keep privacy controls in place), everyone will criticize them for revealing too much information. I think Facebook's making the right move in making things more public so that future new users know without a... more... - Jesse Stay

Jesse, it ultimately doesn't freaking matter what Paul thinks their intentions are (so far he is sounding a tad naive here), only the eventual *outcomes*. Do you trust Mark Zuckerberg? How about Microsoft or anyone else who may one day buy or control Facebook? - Alex Schleber

Then there's this: http://www.eff.org/deeplin... re: the new "connections" formerly known as Interests, etc. ... yeah, Paul, let's see your detailed response to what is said in that piece. Thanks in advance for not veering off into BBQ. - Alex Schleber

FB Privacy concerns now bore me. For anybody interested in continuing BBQ talk: http://friendfeed.com/otto42... :-) - Otto

Alex, ultimately you can't trust any company, can you? - Jesse Stay

Otto, amen - Jesse Stay

FWIW, Facebook does have a process for users to debate these terms - if enough users disagree Facebook will re-evaluate. I believe the last few times there weren't enough objections to change. - Jesse Stay

Also, FWIW, the only information available by default is here: http://www.facebook.com/help... - specifically, "name, profile picture, gender, current city, networks, friend list, and Pages" - Jesse Stay

I don't think it's that big a deal they're sharing that, personally. Heck, I give away my phone number and e-mail address on my blog, both publicly and in a parseable manner in the source code. - Jesse Stay

Jesse, that "process" is totally rigged. The problem is that users are lazy and stick to defaults (even if those default change over time). Asking lazy people to log objections is very cynical. - Carter ♥ HTML5

Carter, and I don't think most users really care - Jesse Stay

Well, they don't care * incrementally*. It's like the frog in the water that never notices the water is getting hotter until its too late :) - Carter ♥ HTML5

Ye ye...keep telling yourself that, Jesse. I think TODAY's Facebook IM glitch proves that they still do care to some extent (if they are conscious of the issues at least). do you want all your instant messages to be public? How about your phone SMS and convos? What if the phone/cell co decides that all that really doesn't need to be private anymore, that your privacy is overrated anyway, and people should just get with the "new openness" program... - Alex Schleber

Alex, you guys are way too paranoid. Just don't put anything online you don't want public and you're fine. That goes for Facebook as well. Educate people on that rather than saying "the sky is falling" with Facebook. - Jesse Stay

"If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place."--Google CEO Eric Schmidt - Ashish

Jesse - that is a fine thing to say if people are giving *warning* that what was default private has now become default public *before* it happens. With the changes recently made I now have people who are finding my best friends family members (both girls) because now my likes and wall posts are public. Now I have to stop communicating with them until I figure out all of the myriad ways to hide my FB data and even then the trust has been lost so I doubt I will continue. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Re: Eric Schmidt - search Google for "Eric Schmidt affair", good stuff! http://www.google.com/search... - Carter ♥ HTML5

i miss friendfeed. - Zee.

As anyone who's married knows, it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. - Darren

Facebook did what they had to do to compete long term in the ever changing social landscape. - Darren

It was the right decision. - Darren

Darren, even if FB considered it the proper decision (which I really hope they do for all the grief they are getting) it could have been executed in a more tolerant/privacy friendly manner. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

bear, consider the actions of recent Facebook's warning. It's clear Facebook wants to be more public. - Jesse Stay

Darren.. I agree and they did it in a VERY impressive and powerful way. It even uses privacy rules in place since last Nov/Dec, so I don't understand *most* of the recent complaints. - Chris Myles

Chris, agreed - Jesse Stay

Jesse, Chris - that is great that they used existing framework as it did make it easier to check what changed. But what isn't great was the lack of info (and it could be because i'm just now a FB "power user") on the fact that my actions on other's posts/events now cause them to be more visible than *they* want. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Chris/Darren, just because "they did it in a VERY impressive and powerful way" doesn't mean we all have to like it. The same could be said e.g. for the Nazi's taking over Germany. - Alex Schleber

Yeah, what LogEx, Akiva, Roberto, etc all said: FB started off closed. People signed on with a certain set of expectations. FF and Twitter started out open, people signed on to those two with different expectations. It's like why no one (reasonably) complains the bus is public but would complain if their taxi started picking up a bunch of other passengers midway - the rules changed midstream, to the detriment of the existing users. - Andrew C (✓)

Oh wow - now Facebook is being compared to the Nazis? Really??? Except you don't have to be on Facebook. The Germans had no choice. I wish those with problems would just kill their accounts and stop complaining. This is getting ridiculous. - Jesse Stay

And Godwin's Law is now in effect. It's been a fun discussion, but it's over. - Geoff Schultz {TF}

BTW, I think most of the Facebook team would take serious offense to that Nazi comment - Jesse Stay

Here is another "everything you ever do with/on the Internet is pretty much public" counter-example: Online Dating. Do you want all of your "dating graph" (any profile you ever checked out, messaged, etc.) made public? Yes, there is no absolute expectation of privacy - e.g. vis-a-vis the state/law/etc., but I doubt too many people would have started using these services if the companies had said: BTW, we will eventually make all of this information public or semi-public. - Alex Schleber

Alex, personally, I don't have a problem with that, but I live a boring life. Again, don't use Facebook or a dating site if you have a problem with it. - Jesse Stay

FWIW, those things get exposed all the time - Jesse Stay

...and yes, I agree that one should think twice about posting/using anything on the Web, but that doesn't mean all privacy questions are a binary decision. Just because someone can get to certain information somehow, is NOT the same as a company shoveling it out the door with all hands on deck... as is now the case with FB "Open" Graph. - Alex Schleber

Jesse - will you please *stop* saying "or a dating site if you have a problem with it"! FB started as a private way to share personal information *by design* and then it changed how it works. If FB would let me delete my account and *my data* then I would have done that the first time they changed how things work. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Bear, why can't you delete your Facebook account? It's quite simple. Do it, so long as you stop complaining. - Jesse Stay

Wow. - Derrick

Alex, have you ever seen the information Google has on you? Google has much more than Facebook right now, and you probably don't even know it. - Jesse Stay

@jesse - i'm not complaining about anything except the pious holier than thou way you keep saying "hey, if you post in public you get what you get" while completely ignoring how the rules got changed under the FB users feet. PLUS you can't DELETE an account - it just gets "deactivated" and all of the data remains. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Bear, no rules were changed since December. Features added, yes, but nothing changed. BTW, I'm pretty sure you can delete your account entirely. If not, they can't do anything with the data after you cancel, at least per the terms (only thing they can do is keep it on your friends' news feeds, which I think makes for a much better experience). - Jesse Stay

@bear: True account deletion is possible: http://www.facebook.com/help... (Note: it takes 2 weeks of deactivation before they actually delete the account). - Otto

Evidently this is a holy war now - Jesse Stay

Expectations are fine but times change, facebook started three years before twitter and the only content they have required to be public is your name, profile photo, gender, list of friends and pages you are a fan of (like). They did it using a very public method that forced *everyone* to review and double check their settings and they told you they were migrating to the more public... more... - Chris Myles

Jesse, I was merely referring to Chris' use of "they did it in a VERY impressive and powerful way", to which you agreed. As in: that alone isn't a freaking criterion for anything. - Alex Schleber

I wonder if Paul regrets making this particular thought public? :P - Carter ♥ HTML5

Chris, amen - Jesse Stay

Bear, you can either delete or deactivate. Here's the link to delete: https://ssl.facebook.com/help... - Rochelle

Alex, I was giving kudos to Paul.. I'm impressed, it's powerful. I also don't feel my trust has been violated because I kept up with the privacy changes (http://www.eff.org/deeplin...). I'm looking for people who are ready to move forward (http://friendfeed.com/chrismy...).. I remember these exact arguments last year, I'm ready to move on!! - Chris Myles

Jesse: To some people, not using Facebook is like withdrawing from society. - Gabe

Carter, I am glad he did, this needs to be discussed. I just hope he's been working on FB messaging platform, and therefore doesn't have full visibility to what Zuck has cooked up here. The true implications of this likely won't be apparent for another 1-3 years. I really do hope that Paul's/Jesse's et al. best-case-scenario, optimistic view actually comes to pass. But I'm not holding my breath either. - Alex Schleber

exactly Gabe, the "people can just leave" argument is getting pretty naive at this point. See here: http://alexschleber.amplify.com/2010... - Alex Schleber

Gabe, in that case, just be careful what you put online. If you're that paranoid, kill your account. Heck, kill your internet connection. There is no such thing as perfect privacy. - Jesse Stay

Jesse, please stop the "perfect privacy" straw man argument. There is no perfect anything, so does that mean we can't have an opinion? - Alex Schleber

Jesse: Also, I recall from a movie or TV show trailer a few days ago: "You're being paranoid. That's what someone says right before they betray you...". Frankly, it's also a not-so-thinly-veiled insult as well, since you are referring to us per a DSM-IV diagnosable mental disorder criterion. Just saying... - Alex Schleber

Alex, you may have an opinion, but your argument on Facebook doesn't make sense if you think your privacy can never be exposed. Same goes for Google, Gmail, Orkut, Private Twitter accounts, or any other service where privacy is expected. These things are exposed all the time, often without you knowing - that's a fact of life. Don't put it online if you don't want it exposed. All the complaining and opinions in the world won't stop that. - Jesse Stay

Jesse: That's a poor argument. Being exposed by accident or via a bug is different than being exposed by design. I'd prefer to live in a world where private information can be both online and shared and still well-protected by a proper set of controls. You don't need perfection to achieve this goal. However, you do need to stop moving the target around. - Otto

Alex, sorry but to think that nothing will EVER change is also naive.. I think we've all gone a little extreme to make our points. There is nothing wrong with strong opinions and even expectations but there HAS to be a balance. facebook has done a reasonable job considering they have a microscope us their a$$ and not everyone will be happy with their changes. - Chris Myles

CW, come on - so you're offended that your name, gender, city, network, and friends same info are exposed as you browse the web? Nothing else is exposed, unless you opted in. - Jesse Stay

Oh, and the fact that you "liked" it, but that too is opt-in - Jesse Stay

Google has a really good position paper on opt-in vs opt-out http://www.law.ed.ac.uk/ahrc.... (if anyone is interested). - Chris Myles

"dont put it online if you dont want it exposed" - that is both fair and unfair. True - the only 100% privacy is if you never share anything but that's hardly useful. I think people are entitled to feel that a breach of some covenant has happened when something that used to be under our control (who gets to see what) gets changed and taken out of our control, and automatically shared... more... - Iphigenie

Maybe it would help if Fb had a feature that showed the list of people who had access to what information and why. That way I could say "If I click 'Like' on this post, who will be able to tell", and decide right then if it was worth clicking. - Gabe

Jesse, that's simply not true. When I went to the settings page I have a screenshot of here: http://alexschleber.posterous.com/this-is... ALL of those options were CHECKED by default. And FB has hidden this most important "what my friends can propagate about me" setting 2 layers deep... - Alex Schleber

First, kudos for Paul & Facebook insiders who *dialog* publicly about the elephant in the room. BUT, bottom line: Privacy as normative bait & switch and opt-out settings. Apple gets lauded for 'Hardware-Software That Just Works'; if a modicum of evidence existed that FB has the ethos of 'Privacy That Just Works', there would be more support from the tech-competent and Facebook-history aware public (a small, but influential slice of the whole). - Micah

CW, they told you about the changes and even forced you to accept LAST NOV/DEC (see link above). Are you a fan of the site governance page (which announces future changes to get voted on)? If you don't feel comfortable what are you doing using the tool? - Chris Myles

Although I agree with Paul that it should not be that big a deal that he chose to make his profile fully public (with tiny exceptions) to people - that has never been the problem for me, and I found the flexibility of sharing to a list only to be mostly a matter of courtesy (dont bore school friend with technical shares, or the wrong language) rather than privacy (I always treated it as... more... - Iphigenie

Alex, Did you take a screen shot last Nov/Dec? both of those settings were available for your review then http://www.cynicsunlimited.com/2009.... - Chris Myles

And, provincial as it may be, I'm looking to Josh's dramatic reading of this thread. (**Special Mention**: GO TEAM BBQ!) #JoshHaley #DramaticReadingBOD - Micah

that's it, i'm off to chop peppers in farmville ;) - Iphigenie

OK so obviously there has been a HUGE uproar about this last year and again now.. I've had messages from friends on facebook warning of the dangers and facebook has publicly stated they are trending toward the public social norm.. I was in the middle of no where for 5.5 years and I knew what was going on with facebook. We can't second guess and protect everyone.. but messages were... more... - Chris Myles

I'm just going to let Chris fight this for me - he's doing a great job. I'm behind you all the way Chris! :-) (and I totally agree) - Jesse Stay

But yeah - even my Mom asked me about the changes last Nov/Dec - Jesse Stay

Sorry Jesse, I'm on my last legs here. Privacy, expectations, trust and comfort are all VERY personal and people have to make their own choice!! Don't like (trust,respect) it.. leave. Worried everything will become public someday.. don't share private things. Double check your settings, ask questions, read every future dialog/message and assume future features will default to public sharing.. that's what I'm doing (and have always done). Facebook and me.. we're good! - Chris Myles

Chris, I am too - none of this uproar makes sense to me, but I'm losing energy to fight it. As Otto said, the privacy uproar is getting boring. - Jesse Stay

and that is why I am so glad you are not on the Facebook team dealing with Privacy - the fact that you find something that others find important as boring and not worth discussing. The issue boils down to what a reasonable/non-guru user of FB can expect in regard to their privacy and the answer is that they can only expect FB to change things without notice and to continue to make things opt-in that used to be off by default. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Bear, it's not that I don't find it boring - I find the fact that we're repeating ourselves over and over again boring and the fact that people like you keep spreading false information like "you can't delete your account" boring. - Jesse Stay

I wasn't spreading false information, I was stating my opinion and it was corrected. At the time I last looked at my FB, which was the last time they changed privacy defaults, I could not fully delete it. Now I find you can - so for the folks who come to me for help with computer stuff I can point them to that page if they want. Me personally, I live in this bleeding-edge world and know how to deal with it. A lot of the points I raise are proxy items from the folks who look to me for help. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

I thought you got to choose what you enter into Facebook. Phone numbers and addresses and which school you went to etc... Most profiles I have set up for people have been set and forget. Either all closed, friends of friends or open. - Johnny from iPhone

Bear, also, since December, Facebook hasn't changed any previous privacy settings. They've added features since, but your privacy hasn't changed. - Jesse Stay from iPhone

Jesse - the impact of what was left as a default value changed. I say that as a casual user because people are finding me via FB that were not finding me previously via my network and city settings. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Bear, and you still have the option to opt out if you think it's a bigger impact. Everyone was notified 6 months ago exactly what was public and what was private. - Jesse Stay from iPhone

The minimal information exposed really isn't that big an impact though, I don't think. - Jesse Stay from iPhone

again, can you read what i'm saying ... I went into the settings 6 months ago and opted out of a lot of things and now I went back into it and items are now appearing with more options to select than were previously available. So the net change may be giving me more choice but some of the default values were tweaked to a more public view than I expected. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Facebook even sent out an email notifying people - Jesse Stay from iPhone

Jesse, do you think the fact that you are in a part a FB developer (through SocialToo, other?) may taint your point of view here a bit? Are all those people worried about aspects of this (Scoble, Om, various Google developers, etc. etc.), are we all "paranoid"? BTW, I haven't said one thing about account deletion. - Alex Schleber

Jesse I think often forgets that as a FB dev he often sees these changes long before others and has an fuller mental skeleton of what the interactions are than the "normal" user (IMO) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Bear, I deal with the normal user more than I do developer. Most normal users don't care. - Jesse Stay

Jesse, BTW, the settings from 6 months ago (I for one overlooked the "What your friends can share about you through applications and websites" settings, and I am at least semi-savvy on this sort of thing) don't mean much, because ***THEN we didn't know that the entire thing was going to be shared with every possible site out there implementing "Open" Graph with a few copy&pastes.*** If the same stuff was already discoverable through Facebook Connect, then I missed that, ... - Alex Schleber

Jesse - then we inhabit totally different realms of "normal" - by far everyone who I deal with is hating on FB for these changes :) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Alex, yes, you missed that - Jesse Stay

Bear, are those you deal with primarily in Silicon Valley? ;-) - Jesse Stay

Jesse - actually no - I live on the east coast and in a rurally conservative area. as far away from Silicon Valley as my job allows :) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

... AND of course a lot fewer sites implemented FBConnect (because it was harder), showing up on a site required login with FBC there instead of it being automatic as it is now. Etc. - Alex Schleber

Alex, actually, name, location, gender, profile pic were all available without login via FB Connect before - Jesse Stay

Yes, but what about Interests, Religious orientation, etc. etc. ?!? - Alex Schleber

Alex, and tens of thousands of sites were implementing FB Connect as that information was available - Jesse Stay

Alex, that info isn't available as public by default right now - Jesse Stay

"right now" - that's the battle we're all fighting - for people that care about these things, we can't promise that it will remain any certain way - Christopher Galtenberg

And don't forget the raising of the 24-Hour limit on keeping data going away. That is a bit of a change, no? - Alex Schleber

FYI From Nov's update "Information set to “everyone” is publicly available information, may be accessed by everyone on the Internet (including people not logged into Facebook), is subject to indexing by third party search engines, may be associated with you outside of Facebook (such as when you visit other sites on the internet), and may be imported and exported by us and others without... more... - Chris Myles

The whole 24 hour limit thing is just recognition of the de-facto situation anyway. FB never had any real way to enforce that limit or how people treated the data that was received. - Otto

Christopher, Facebook hasn't made any moves to signify that will be changing any time soon. Not sure what you're getting at. - Jesse Stay

(Christopher G) - Jesse Stay

"any time soon" <- that - Christopher Galtenberg

Christopher, you can say the same about any other company that holds your data - still not sure what you're getting at - Jesse Stay

Yes you do - Christopher Galtenberg

Christopher, no I don't (???) - Jesse Stay

I really hope that Zuckerberg turns out to be a benign dictator... - Alex Schleber

Alex, :) me too! - Chris Myles

Wow - Jesse Stay

Re: benign http://www.businessinsider.com/10-reas... - sorry if I'm trolling, just my friend graph can't stop talking about this - Christopher Galtenberg

Look we can't even talk about what has happened, let alone what might. I trust they will give me notice of future changes and no I'm NOT naive. - Chris Myles

Chris, yeah - they haven't violated my trust, yet. - Jesse Stay

Oh great - now Louis Gray shared this on Twitter. Are we going to have to repeat this again? ;-) - Jesse Stay

Christopher, you should read some of the comments on the original post here http://www.rocket.ly/home.... Personally I have no tolerance for overly sensationalized blog posts, I like to make decisions based on facts!! - Chris Myles

Jesse, because you've essentially said you have no trust. (don't put anything online you don't want broadcast). Most FB users were led to believe they *could* trust FB with personal information. - Tinfoil 2.0 from iPhone

LogEx, I haven't said that either. I feel like I can trust Facebook. - Jesse Stay

I read the comments. I'm saying that my FB graph is abuzz about the article, and my friend count is dropping. The article matches the sentiment about FB perfectly. That's what matters, not that point #9 is invalid (it is). - Christopher Galtenberg

If FB allowed for a permanent "opt-out of public data until I say otherwise" that NEVER had to be revised whenever a new feature came along, some of the privacy complaints would be moot. However, this goes against FB's business interest of trying to have it be a more public system(as is alluded to in this thread). - George S.

Looks like it's me, Jesse and Paul :) - Chris Myles

Regardless, a great deal of data is also shared by various FB apps (e.g. when the user gets the dialog requesting that data is shared). This is a backdoor into their "private" data, so to be truly private you'd have to opt-out of many FB apps as well (unless they changed their policies). - George S.

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*sigh* - this is going in a loop - Jesse Stay

Jesse, you said "Don't put it online if you don't want it exposed" in this thread and similar statements in other forums. It's fine if you personally trust FB with your info, particularly since you don't seem to acknowledge that there are valid reasons for people to want and need privacy in their online interactions. But millions of other users don't feel that way, and have been and... more... - Tinfoil 2.0

The fact that there is so much controversy in this thread (and many others like it) are: (1) people want things from Facebook that Facebook no longer delivers; (2) it's difficult to know (particularly for laypeople who don't follow every little move like we all do) what exactly happens with your data and what may happen in the future. - Tinfoil 2.0

LogEx. Can you totally lock down your account. Is it possible? - Johnny from iPhone

LogEx, that was in response to people paranoid about the existing Facebook privacy preferences. If you have a problem with your name, city, profile picture, and network being exposed, best not to put anything online. Nothing has changed from Facebook. - Jesse Stay

Johnny, NO, it is no longer possible. It used to be. - Tinfoil 2.0

Johnny, your name, city, profile picture, network, and friends will always be visible. Everything else (assuming you don't like anything) can be locked down. - Jesse Stay

LogEx, that's only part of the story - you seem to have an agenda - share what I shared if you want to share the whole story. - Jesse Stay

Before November, the only thing required to be public were your Name and Networks. Friend List, Pages, and "Connections" can be very sensitive. People were brought up in Facebook believing that they had a private place if they wished to interact with friends and family. - Tinfoil 2.0

LogEx, that is correct, and they sent you an e-mail notifying you that was changing. That is the only thing that has changed in years. - Jesse Stay

Jesse, my agenda is, and always has been simple: maximize choice for users so that they can be AS public or AS private as they wish. - Tinfoil 2.0

LogEx, Facebook is *all about* choice. Lock 'er down. The only info exposed is what I listed above. Do you really have a problem with that? - Jesse Stay

Try getting as granular as you can with Facebook on Google or Twitter - you can't. - Jesse Stay

Also note that even Twitter private profiles expose more information than what Facebook does by default. - Jesse Stay

Jesse, part of this issue is trust. FB has a reputation problem, which the "only thing that his changed in years" has a lot to do with. It's a very significant change. Additionally, that "granularity" is both a blessing and a curse. Is there a "One Button" privacy feature? Because some people don't WANT granular. - George S.

Google knows remarkably little about me, due to the way their services are architected and due to the tools they provide. And, yes, I do have a problem with Facebook steadily removing privacy choices in Nov/Dec and again in April. People are now forced to share more. You can no longer "lock 'er down". - Tinfoil 2.0

George, one privacy change in 3 years is a pretty good reputation. - Jesse Stay

LogEx, I think you're naive in thinking that Google knows little about you - Jesse Stay

I don't think that logic is meaningful, because it's a pretty fundamental policy change - George S.

George, everyone has had the opportunity to delete their Facebook account if they choose. It's not a whole lot of information they exposed. Also, the entire Facebook population was given the opportunity to debate the change, as Facebook allows for any policy change. A very insignificant amount of people did. - Jesse Stay

FWIW, even before the change there was info, such as your profile pic and name that were exposed to the public - that has always been the case. - Jesse Stay

I'm not being at all naive Jesse. I use multiple Google accounts and have never populated any Google profiles with real world information about myself. I won't bore you with other details about how I manage my relationship with Google. - Tinfoil 2.0

LogEx, you are definitely not the normal user then - Jesse Stay

Also, "It's not a whole lot of information they exposed" - shouldn't that really be for each user to decide? Not all half billion users are privileged white males who don't have to worry about nuances of what might get exposed about their interactions with friends and family (and around the web). - Tinfoil 2.0

LogEx, you're on the web, on a social network that gets indexed by search engines - delete your account if you don't like that. I think it's a rather paranoid move if you're really bothered by that, though. Google and Twitter expose default information about you as well. - Jesse Stay

pain = (user-count * new-feature-impact ^ trust-involved). Everyone for or against any certain social network or policy knows that. Another axiom: The fans of the network in question will always act blinkered; the antagonists will still use the network within 60 minutes. - Christopher Galtenberg

Christopher, you are exactly correct - Jesse Stay

I think this argument isn't really about "default" information. Any service where you identify as a "real" person requires you to share this information. Though it is worth noting that Facebook expects you use your real name, while other services (i.e. Twitter) allow for more anonymity if you so choose. - George S.

George, what is this argument about then? I've lost track. - Jesse Stay

Yes, George S. makes an excellent point. Google and Twitter absolutely do not require your real world identity. Facebook collected hoardes of private real world identity info, THEN declared that much of that was being forced public (or coerced through UI). - Tinfoil 2.0

LogEx, you're sidetracking the fact that your name has been public for quite some time now - Jesse Stay

(goes to look up the default information listed in I'm on Facebook--Now What??? back in 2007) - Jesse Stay

This betrayal of trust shows two things: 1) FB is afraid of losing the real-time search content to Twitter and 2) Zuckerberg has learned *nothing* from the Beacon disaster. - Dave Hodson

Dave, what betrayal of trust? - Jesse Stay

Feels like he's repeating himself --> - Jesse Stay

Jesse: betrayal of trust -- users expect their data to be private. Pulling a fast one on them with new "default" settings that remove privacy setting is a betrayal. - Dave Hodson

Understands why Paul has given up on this conversation --> - Jesse Stay

Because you are not listening to the valid concerns of others. - Tinfoil 2.0

Dave, nothing fast has been pulled - read my comments above - Jesse Stay

Jesse: I have a teenage relative. I went through this person's profile and was shocked what the "suggested" defaults now expose to the world. - Dave Hodson

2 of the key privacy concerns on FB are more about 1) change from default-private to default-public, 2) How your other information is used by 3rd parties (e.g. Apps, etc., like when the app asks to share your info). In #2, most people just blindly "Allow". But they don't really know what they might be sharing, or to whom. - George S.

LogEx, I've heard it all - none of it is making sense. No privacy settings were removed this time around. - Jesse Stay

George, there has *always* been information available as public - Jesse Stay

They absolutely were changed in April via Connections. - Tinfoil 2.0

Jesse, I don't think you're grasping what I'm saying. - George S.

In 2007 they made all profiles on Facebook indexable by Google, to the extent of your name and some other small information (I'll look it up when I get home) - Jesse Stay

From another FF conversation: "The best privacy setting of all is yourself." Only give FB what you want to show up on CNN.com. Which for me is pretty much nothing now. - Christopher Galtenberg

LogEx what was changed? - Jesse Stay

Christopher, I agree with that - Jesse Stay

Jesse - perhaps you don't agree with my thoughts, but at least agree that there is negative sentiment out there about this and FB hasn't done a good job of clarifying changes. - Dave Hodson

Dave, your thoughts are 100% incorrect - it's not that I don't agree. It's that they're completely false. - Jesse Stay

Jesse, see: http://www.eff.org/deeplin... & http://www.eff.org/deeplin... & http://www.eff.org/deeplin... - Tinfoil 2.0

Jesse - wow, that is really funny. I don't know that I've ever been 100% incorrect before. Glad you have an open mind on this topic. - Dave Hodson

LogEx, you were given the opportunity to opt out of connections. If you don't like it, kill it. - Jesse Stay

Right, delete large sections of profile because FB no longer allows you to share them privately. That sounds like a great feature. - Tinfoil 2.0

Dave, you're not listening to me - your information has pretty much always been available as public. When did you first create your Facebook account? - Jesse Stay

Name and Networks have historically been the only things public. - Tinfoil 2.0

LogEx, then delete your Facebook profile if you don't like that. You have plenty of choice. Nothing is being taken away from you. - Jesse Stay

LogEx, you are correct. - Jesse Stay

Jesse, that's what you don't get. The point is that FB has been steadily removing choices. - Tinfoil 2.0

Jesse - I'm listening, I'm just 100% incorrect - Dave Hodson

Dave, exactly - Jesse Stay

Delete your profile = choice? - Christopher Galtenberg

Christopher, yup, that's still choice if you're offended by that little information being shared about you. Are you really *that* reliant on Facebook? - Jesse Stay

FB has become so so insistent at removing choices at the privacy end of the spectrum while boosting choices at the publicity end. To deny that people have at least as much need of privacy as they do of publicity is naive and dangerous. - Tinfoil 2.0

These things are tools - if they're not useful any more, don't use them. - Jesse Stay

LogEx, "*so* insistent" - 2 times in the last 3 years? - Jesse Stay

Sorry, my cut-and-paste typo. - Tinfoil 2.0

We know what you're saying, Jesse. Thanks for representing. And actually, am about to find out how dependent I am/was -- interested to see. - Christopher Galtenberg

Everyone knows the CIA has been behind FB from day one, zuck is just the faceman. - Geoff Schultz {TF}

The more you apologize for what everyone is trying to tell you is wrong, the more guilty you look. Stop apologizing for Facebook, Jesse. People shared who their real friends were, using their real names, and even tagged pictures of their kids, because they were told it would be safe and private. Now that hundreds of millions of people are locked in, Facebook is forcing its "privacy doesn't exist" model on them. It's fucked up and you know it. - Mr. Gunn

I don't have a problem with the changes in privacy settings (and I'm a lot more paranoid about privacy then Paul is). I DO care about the "pre-approved data sharing" though. I don't want CNN to be able to link the stories I read with my real name because I'm concerned about the potential to link me-as-a-real-person to a profile based on news stories I read. - Nick Lothian

One might be quite happy to walk down the beach with a wife or daughter, knowing that a handful of people might be looking at them lasciviously. Having someone collect pictures of them and a lot of private data under the false pretence of privacy and trust and then start sharing them around is a different thing entirely. The word pimp springs to mind. IMHO of course. - Jan Simmonds

+1 Mr. Gunn. Wow, quite the conversation while I was gone. I agree with @Zee much further up: I miss the old Friendfeed conversation days...FF was never the same after the buy-out shock. "Damn you Zuckerberg for siphoning off the FF team to slave away in the FB salt mines"... - Alex Schleber

See also: Facebook’s Paul Buchheit ***justifies*** increasing openness, less privacy http://social.venturebeat.com/2010... - Alex Schleber

Paul, For starters - both FriendFeed and Twitter have not changed their privacy policy as frequently and as ominously as Facebook has. :( And, I DON'T WANT ALL OF MY FRIENDS TO KNOW WHAT I AM DOING ON THE WEB - GOD DAMN IT. :) - Space Cowboy

Alex, you have an incredible talent for spinning context and slicing and dicing a conversation to *amplify* your point of view. Did you read the post you linked to? It says the exact same thing as the one Paul linked to above.. and there was no justification, just Paul's reasons for opening up his settings. I'm sure he's quite comfortable given his friendfeed history, it doesn't mean you or anyone else has to be!! - Chris Myles

I watch "best of day" emails from FriendFeed every day and this is the first one that got me excited about coming into FriendFeed for more than the past month. Is FriendFeed coming back? This thread shows it has the potential to. - Robert Scoble

Robert, While you're here.. what are your thoughts? - Chris Myles

People realizing that FB is basically a public network now should actually consider the best open public sharing network: this one. - Christopher Galtenberg

Christopher, there is *nothing* better than friendfeed (for me). - Chris Myles

Agreed - feels like a secret that people are yet to wake up to - almost everything good you want to do on the web you can do here (share, save, learn, filter, search, group, like, nudge, chat, dialogue) - Christopher Galtenberg

I even use private groups with *great* success! - Chris Myles

The real issue here, is that it's only us geeks that know there's a real facebook privacy issue OR give a shit. Most "normal" people have no idea their "private" info is wide open or that Zuck's constantly changing the rules of the game. That said, no one's forced to use FB. BTW: I'm 99.9% certain Zuck's gonna get away with this bait & switch bullshit. - Jim Connolly

Oh - and Friendfeed is MASSIVELY better than Facebook. - Jim Connolly

Been on-line since 1989, for someone who wants your information, there is no such thing as private information in a community environment. - Justin Hitt

1UP Jim. - Derrick

Chris, 1) of course I read the post I linked to, and apparently VentureBeat came away with a similar impression, that Paul's forays on this stuff have a tinge of "justifying." Look, it's OK, in the end FB can & will do whatever it wants, it's just that this strange "what privacy issues?" sermonizing is giving me the willies. Too much FB kool-aid already. And there seem to be a lot of other people on this thread who have similar feelings. - Alex Schleber

Justin, there's no such thing as an unstealable car either, but that doesn't invalidate the purpose of door locks. - Micah

... 2) I whole-heartedly agree that FF still rules, even though there has been no development in nearly a year, which is shocking if you think about it. I really wish FB hadn't bought these guys out, they could have done much better work here FASTER. Hey, money is money. After the buy-out, things went all emo on here though...so it hadn't been particularly useful for tech discussions. Nothing wrong with how the remaining folks use it, but that had never been my use case. - Alex Schleber

3) I am very happy to see that despite out differences, we can all still agree on Friendfeed being a superior solution. It's a shame that Google hasn't done a better job with Buzz (why is frankly beyond me), they could have done a FF++ and things would have been gravy... - Alex Schleber

4) BTW Scoble seems to be of two minds about it, he knows what FB is up to (and has argued that pretty much nothing can be done about it anymore), but also likes spying on other people's musical tastes on Pandora, etc. :) He gets "great value from that"... - Alex Schleber

Robert Scoble: FriendFeed is growing slowly. It's not a big-audience site like you're looking for, but it's still a place for great discussions. - Bruce Lewis

Bruce, that may be true but Robert's stated time and time again that he prefers tech-oriented discussions over anything else. Once he couldn't successfully get tech people to commit to FriendFeed, he wandered back to Twitter... or was it Buzz? Maybe it was Facebook. I can't remember. - Akiva

Don't you mean: FF is slowly returning to what it used to be. - Roberto Bonini

And honestly, I'm mostly with him on that. I miss the early days of FriendFeed when it was 80% tech and 20% LOLcats. Now it's 80% drama and 20% LOLcats. - Akiva

The only thing I dislike about Facebook's changes is that they made Friends and Pages public information. When they did that, I had to go and remove about 30% of my Friends and almost all of my Pages. It was quite annoying and I found that I used Facebook much less afterwards, since it was no longer a safe place to communicate with people. But if that's what Zuck wants, so be it. I'll just not use it as much. - Otto

Akiva: And 72% statistics that are made up on the spot (18.15573% of which are unnecessarily precise). - Stephen Mack from iPhone

LOLs @Stephen. In this debate, statistics mean very little. - Roberto Bonini

At the moment, I really only use FB to a) share web links and things with friends, b) promote my own stuff via Pages and subscribers, and c) party/event tracking. I've blocked all the crappy game things long ago, so those don't bother me so much. Realistically, Facebook is only really useful to me as a venue for people to follow my own feeds (via the Like Pages mechanism). I have 400 odd followers that way. Facebook has become a feed-reader. - Otto

Akiva, if you're seeing too much drama, you're too hesitant to click Hide. - Bruce Lewis

Some REAL good points being made here! - Jim Connolly

Bruce, to know which threads need hiding, I have to see them first. - Akiva

There aren't enough drama posts to make anyone's feed 80% drama by virtue of seeing them once. The only way to have an 80% drama experience here is to let them keep popping back up. - Bruce Lewis from fftogo

Oh. You took my percentages seriously. Probably not a good idea. - Akiva

Joking is fine. I just want to make sure people reading this thread understand that you can get whatever flavor of conversation you want out of FriendFeed, percentage-wise. Absolute quantities are limited, but that can be a good thing. - Bruce Lewis from fftogo

Bruce, you're being Apple to Akiva's DeGeneres. :) - Micah

Micah, that's cool! Tomorrow Akiva is going to get on his show, apologize, and talk at length about what a fan he is of me and things I make. - Bruce Lewis from fftogo

Then you both win. - Micah

Can I high-five Akiva now, or do I have to act mad until after the apology? - Bruce Lewis from fftogo

Robert, I haven't had to mute a thread in a long time - maybe you're right ;-) - Jesse Stay

I have no clue what you people are talking about any longer. - Akiva

me neither Akiva - i just came to post that "i saved a ton of money by switch my car insurance to Geico" ;) (not really, they stink) - Jeff (Team マクダジ )

Akiva, Micah was saying that I took your joke too seriously the way Apple took a DeGeneres joke too seriously. It was a nice way to ask me to lighten up. I complied by jokingly taking his analogy too far. Of course, explaining all this makes the joke 80% less effective. - Bruce Lewis from fftogo

Ah. But it makes me 20% less clueless now. - Akiva

Pay attention. We are talking about BBQ. OMGWTFBBQ. - Laura Norvig

You took his what seriously on the *internet*? - Christopher Galtenberg

For all of you self righteous privacy advocates out there, nobody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to use Facebook! In case you all are not aware, you can choose what info to include in your profile, nobody is forcing you to enter your phone #, etc... You can even use a fake name if you'd like. You can choose what people can see what info, the tools are there to setup your account pretty much any way they want to - Brian from FFHound!

"self righteous privacy advocates" - you couldn't be more illuminating, Brian - Christopher Galtenberg

disrepute and shifty ethics: the FF/FB model of selling out & "professionalism"; this can surely be just more lip service "From Facebook, answering privacy concerns with new settings" http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn... - The Real sofarsoShawn

TheFreeboxer

En pleine interrogation sur le nettoyage de mon compte Facebook... et donner l'instruction de ne plus mettre de trucs trop perso...

May 6, 2010 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

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Mihalcea Razvan

How to Overcome 20 Reasons Not to Become a Freelancer | Webdesigner Depot http://www.webdesignerdepot.com/2010...

May 5, 2010 from Gmail/Google Talk - Comment - Like - Share

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See-ming Lee 李思明 SML to See-ming's feed, SML Interaction Design, Web & Teknoloji, Web Design, TheNextWeb Forum, SML Universe, RWW: The Future of Tech

Wikipedia to update UI for better usability via http://ff.im/ikajT #ixd - http://blog.wikimedia.org/2010...

March 29, 2010 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Playing Well with Others and AainaA-Ridtz A.R liked this

"In April, the Wikimedia Foundation is rolling out the first of several significant changes to the user experience of Wikipedia as part of our usability and user experience program. We are changing our default look to a new theme we call “Vector” which makes essential functions easier to find. Editing pages will be easier, thanks to a new editing toolbar that makes it easier to insert links and tables, and a built-in “cheatsheet” to access help for the most commonly used functions. All users will also see that the site layout has changed noticeably. We’ve simplified the site navigation, relocated the search box to satisfy user expectations and to follow other web standards, reduced some of the clutter, and made sure that the new features work with different resolutions, browser formats, and window sizings." - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML from Bookmarklet

Thomas Power

RT @PeterSimoons: Facebook About to Drop a Bomb on Foursquare? http://www.socialmediatoday.com/SMC...

March 29, 2010 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

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Chris Brogan

This amazing photo of Earth cost only $750 to take - http://www.crunchgear.com/2010...

March 29, 2010 from Google Reader - Comment - Like - Share

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Kol Tregaskes to Kol's feed, Social Media, Social Media Club, Social Media Enthusiasts, TheNextWeb Forum

Gravity seems really interesting, anyone tried it? I'm here: http://www.gravity.com/user...

March 27, 2010 - Comment - Like - Share

AainaA-Ridtz A.R, Roberto Bonini, Nispell and Jandy liked this

TheNextWeb posted about it here: http://thenextweb.com/apps... - Kol Tregaskes

13 more comments

i'm giving a try as well - giuseppe c. | markgreene

Let me know what you think,Mark. - Kol Tregaskes

Spent maybe an hour or so over there the other day. Just saw that you found me :) Interesting concepts. Worlds, orbits, etc. Topic-based conversations. Similar to FF Groups I suppose. - Brian Daniel Eisenberg

I asked to create a new 'world'. Guess the subject? ;-) http://www.gravity.com/newworl... - Kol Tregaskes

I tried it. Was looking for fellow GTI owners/topics. Came away empty. Like everything else, it's all about the people & UGC. - Carter ♥ HTML5 from iPhone

I'm liking this a lot. - Kol Tregaskes

Joined gravity, under user name klandwehr - Kim Landwehr

Cool, added you, Kim. What do you think of it? - Kol Tregaskes

I need to spend more than three consecutive minutes on that site. - Akiva

Akiva, it's interesting. I'd like to hear your opinion and perhaps compare it to the likes of Pip.io? - Kol Tregaskes

Based on what I saw of it, it's apples and orangutans. - Akiva

The badges are nice but I tend to find that type of thing gimmickry after a while. - Kol Tregaskes

Yeah, I don't really like the concept of 'achievements' anywhere. It strikes me in a weird way like plurk's karma did. - Akiva

Plurk's karma was a little weird. Never really understood that. - Kol Tregaskes

The Universal Matrix

1M.31.12.12 - The Universe Is Getting Closer Every Day!

January 25, 2010 - Comment - Like - Share

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Andrey Golub

Avatars in the Workplace: real-world employees are beginning to use avatars. from Harvard Business Review. http://blogs.hbr.org/cs...

January 27, 2010 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

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Loic Le Meur

January 27, 2010 from Flickr - Comment - Like - Share

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See-ming Lee 李思明 SML to See-ming's feed, SML Universe, RWW: The Future of Tech, Crazy Gadgets, FF Gadgets, Crazy is Good

Hexagonal interactive OLED gaming tiles likely to cost a bundle, would sure spice up our Wednesday nights -- Engadget #games #technology #crazyisgood - http://www.engadget.com/2010...

January 27, 2010 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Ahmet Kutay, Angela E. Taylor, Ferzvladimir and 3 other people liked this

See-ming Lee 李思明 SML to See-ming's feed, SML Universe, All Things Google, RWW: The Future of Tech

Official Google Research Blog: Machine Learning with Quantum Algorithms #algorithm #future #machinelearning - http://googleresearch.blogspot.com/2009...

December 13, 2009 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Serkan Dogantekin, The Real sofarsoShawn, TrafficBug and 5 other people liked this

"Quantum computers take advantage of the laws of quantum physics to provide new computational capabilities. While quantum mechanics has been foundational to the theories of physics for about a hundred years the picture of reality it paints remains enigmatic. This is largely because at the scale of our every day experience quantum effects are vanishingly small and can usually not be observed directly. Consequently, quantum computers astonish us with their abilities. Let’s take unstructured search as an example. Assume I hide a ball in a cabinet with a million drawers. How many drawers do you have to open to find the ball? Sometimes you may get lucky and find the ball in the first few drawers but at other times you have to inspect almost all of them. So on average it will take you 500,000 peeks to find the ball. Now a quantum computer can perform such a search looking only into 1000 drawers. This mind boggling feat is known as Grover’s algorithm." - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML from Bookmarklet

Interesting post! - TrafficBug

Paul Dunay

@MaryEllenGrom - actually I DO think Twitter is for B2B - see my case study on it - http://www.socialmediaexaminer.com/it-pays...

December 13, 2009 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

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Chris Brogan

The Evolution of A New Trust Economy - http://www.briansolis.com/2009...

December 13, 2009 from Google Reader - Comment - Like - Share

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Robert Scoble

How do I know we're not normal? Only about 10% of Americans have been on Twitter so far. So, we're defacto NOT normal by being on Twitter.

November 27, 2009 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Osman S Borutecene, SAM, Mark Andrew Catton and 14 other people liked this

If I only use Twitter through FriendFeed, am I closer to normal? - Bruce Lewis

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further removed bruce lewis, way way further removed, ;) - chaz2b

:) The notion of a universality of human experience is a confidence trick and the notion of a universality of female experience is a clever confidence trick. Angela Carter - Véronique Rabuteau

With that reasoning nobody is normal; as there's always something anybody is doing which is done by only ~10% of a nation. Although Scoble, with you I won't argue, we're not normal - you're special ;-) - James Kuypers

hear hear Rob and there's no way those 10% are normal by US standards - Thomas Power

haha I've never been "normal", so this actually makes me feel better :) - Susan Beebe

I still think I'm more normal because I'm hardly ever on Twitter directly. I don't know why I even talk to all you weirdos. - Bruce Lewis

I only post 3 daily tweets and then I'm outta there - Jeunelle Foster

OK Jeunelle, you're with me, then. We're the "almost normal" club. - Bruce Lewis

Yup plus we look good in the dark :-) - Jeunelle Foster

I wish it were closer to 2%. Twitter's way 2 mainstrm 2 enjoy. I prefer it a few yrs back b4 the congestion. - Jennifer Ruggiero

Just because you're the minority doesn't mean you're not normal. Maybe the minority is normal and everyone else isn't! - Kolya Miller

Louis Gray

One problem with blogging for years? Undeniable proof that you could be seriously wrong. (Like I was in 2007 re: Facebook) - http://blog.louisgray.com/2007...

November 28, 2009 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Zu from AOD, Caleb Elston, Benjamin Tseng and 14 other people liked this

"Five years from now, Facebook will not be a household brand. Like GeoCities and TheGlobe.com before it, today's hot Web communities are tomorrow's graveyards, as a fickle Web audience will continue to move from one destination to the next, leaving behind ignored friend requests and a a river of bad HTML in their wake." - Louis Gray from Bookmarklet

74 more comments

Also: "I don't have a Facebook login, don't have access, and don't want it. Why, when there is so much content and real-time collaboration and conversation going on outside of the walls of Facebook, would I take the extra effort to share in conversations and faux digital friendships to a more limited audience? It just doesn't make sense." - Louis Gray

WTH is wrong with me? :) - Louis Gray

So what do you think about Twitter now? ;-) - Hutch Carpenter

Twitter? Who said anything about Twitter? You mean this doozy of an article? :) http://blog.louisgray.com/2007... "Why I Stopped Using IM and Won't Use Twitter" - Louis Gray

Eh, I would have said the same thing. The service has never really shown any useful redemption for me. - Jimminy, CoG of FF

There is nothing wrong with displaying the evolution of your thoughts. In fact, it serves to prove you aren't pig-headed. - April

I need to pull out my old articles on Facebook and Twitter. I think I was pretty close :-) - Jesse Stay

Twitter, not sure about though - Jesse Stay

/blocks Jesse again. - Louis Gray

Types this as he plays Mario Kart, minus Louis Gray :-P - Jesse Stay

Sadly I have to agree with you LG. Facebook held by attention for less than a year. Twitter has had little real impact. Friendfeed and Ecademy remain my favourites because they are real clubs, gangs, groups dare I say proper communities not machines. Jason Goldberg (Social Median) has left Xing inside a year after the sale. Xing's another machine. Humans want relationship software not efficient dishwasher software with zero humanity. Google needs to humanize. Wave is the start but remains (currently) poor. - Thomas Power

Thomas, Facebook and Twitter aren't going anywhere any time soon - look at the stats - Jesse Stay

I agree Jesse I follow the stats here http://www.quantcast.com/top-sit... and I realize they are not going anywhere for the mass market just arriving. However they are not able to hold my attention as a super user or power user and if they don't ultimately I know from experience (since 1994) they will decline. There's an old saying "easy come, easy go". Remember MySpace. Friendfeed and Ecademy are slow hard builds that few understand. - Thomas Power

Just remember, once upon a time AOL was really big. When facebook finally falls, you can point to your old post and say you were right. :-P - April

This thread reminds me I need three sets of cufflinks: WTF, WTH, FTW. I'll wear each set on appropriate occasions. - Bernie Goldbach

Its all about attention, and the 'moment' - 5 years from now, those below 25 will be more proactive to communicating about issues that matter most - like the state of their world - they'll want to repair what their elders have destroyed! FB will hopefully see the changing trend and re-adapt. - AainaA-Ridtz A.R

hear hear April. Hear hear. Sounds like you lost interest in them too. Have you? - Thomas Power

Thomas, I wouldn't be comparing Facebook to MySpace. I would be comparing them to Google. You guys are looking at the wrong comparisons. (I wrote 2 entire books on this, so I too have done my research) - Jesse Stay

Wasn't their a report about Facebooks users starting to slough off a bit recently, within the past month? - Jimminy, CoG of FF

Facebook is not just a site it's a platform, and you have to take that into account when comparing them - Jesse Stay

Jimminy, Facebook is growing as fast as they always have: http://siteanalytics.compete.com/faceboo... - Jesse Stay

OK Jesse I'm listening. I know Google is ranked 1 by Alexa and Facebook is ranked 2. I know Facebook is a monster and a platform. Are you really saying they can catch a business now selling $500m a week of Google Ads? Not a chance in hell sorry. - Thomas Power

In fact they took a jump last month based on that report - Jesse Stay

OK I get the platform thing. Tell me where they are going to get $500m a week of ads from? - Thomas Power

Thomas is talking about relevance and revenue. Jesse is talking about traffic and a platform. It is easy to look backward, but what is forward? - Louis Gray

Thomas, they're already making money off ads. Facebook is profitable. - Jesse Stay

my primary use for facebook is a handful of games and for dragging friends to friendfeed. (say hello to my latest convert, Carol Haynes: http://friendfeed.com/carolha... ) - April

Facebook has something even more powerful than Google has to profit from - the Social Graph. Wait until they have ways to profit off Facebook Connect. I predict it's coming. - Jesse Stay

I know they're profitable but $10m a week is a long way from $500m a week. First place is 50 times ahead of second place. That takes some catching. Now if they acquire a cellphone network then you get me thinking. - Thomas Power

Thomas I didn't say they were Google yet but they will be just as successful if not more. Their revenue is up and to the right, not declining. - Jesse Stay

couldn't Google provide a Social Graph in one day from user logins? - Thomas Power

Facebook credits are also about to launch - Jesse Stay

Thomas, Google has tried - no one wants to use it. They have Orkut, iGoogle, Gmail, Friend Connect, plenty of opportunities. - Jesse Stay

Jesse, at 300MM users that's not even showing a 50% usage rate, I think it would be interesting to see what the user retention is currently. I'm one of those uniques but I'm only there at most once a week. - Jimminy, CoG of FF

Yes I agree they are VERY successful. But they are not holding my attention as a user. Mainly because of this silly 5000 (we haven't got enough servers) friends limit. - Thomas Power

Thomas, that's fine - you're not the majority - Jesse Stay

Jimminy, again, look at the stats - you're wrong - Jesse Stay

Anyway, back to Mario Kart - will be back in a sec... - Jesse Stay

Jesse, I was looking at the stats. They hit 300MM users in October. The compete stats, while growing, are showing only 128MM unique visitors, and that's only comparing those two numbers, it would be interesting to view their percentage over the past few years, to see if retention is going up with total user base or decreasing. - Jimminy, CoG of FF

I'm certainly not the majority I'm a trend setter (Ecademy 1998). I know and go where the flow is. FB's acquisition of FF has intrigued me. I want Google to have a decent rival. Clearly MS can't do it with 15 years and $15bn practice. I just want to see where oh where can FB generate $500m a week from? And believe me I WANT to see them pull if off. Murdoch believes Google's success is just newspaper theft. LOL. - Thomas Power

Mario Kart. Sorry Jesse and there's me thinking we had something going here. - Thomas Power

As did I, Thomas - what's wrong with Mario Kart? - Jesse Stay

Nothing. I just ain't no computer gamer. COD is for kids (and grown up ones too). - Thomas Power

Thomas, neither am I, but this is a ton of fun! :-) - Jesse Stay

Nothing wrong with Mario Kart. Got a friend that wrote an online multiplayer version. Unfortunately nobody can play it any more since it requires the microsoft jvm installed and nobody has that any more. http://www.htmlgamez.com/marioka... - April

LOL. Google traffic flat http://siteanalytics.compete.com/google... Facebook traffic flattening http://siteanalytics.compete.com/faceboo... There's no $500m a week business here for Facebook. Not without a cellphone network. - Thomas Power

Coming from the CEO of one of Facebook's competitors? Hmm...I'm not going to win this one am I? - Jesse Stay

Wow what an honour a little tiny guy like me compared to FB. I bow down to the compliment Jesse but believe me I ain't no competitor. Ecademy is 300,000 of my mates http://www.quantcast.com/ecademy... not 300 million. - Thomas Power

Jesse, Thomas is not CEO of Ecademy, he is the Chairman. And Ecademy is not competing with Facebook. They are a social business network focused on future relationships, not like business networks that are focused on past relationships. - Louis Gray

LG wrote this yesterday and caused a real stir http://www.ecademy.com/node.... LG is a very cheeky devil. And he knows it too. - Thomas Power

Aren't you 3 years too early to say you were wrong? - Andy Bakun

Ecademy needs to get a Facebook Connect integration then :-) - Jesse Stay

Andy what you are referring to? And Jesse coming next month. - Thomas Power

Thomas, just wait until your users can buy things on Ecademy.com with Facebook credits :-) - Jesse Stay

hey now you're talking Jesse. Tell us more how that would work? Hat and eating is coming to mind. - Thomas Power

Thomas, Andy was referring to LG's claim that within 5 years Facebook would be on the outs, just 2(nearly 3) years ago. - Jimminy, CoG of FF

Thomas, it's already in production for a few apps - see my article here: http://staynalive.com/article... - now just wait until every Connect-enabled site has access to this. Add that to a more open search than Facebook has currently, their existing ad revenue, an ad platform for Facebook Connect, and more - you've got a serious revenue stream there. - Jesse Stay

It will work. To understand why it would, one only has to read the full article here, paying attention to the end of it where he states what is needed for a full scale success of a micropayment system and why others have failed. http://www.donationcoder.com/Article... - April

Thank you Jimminy. Jesse sorry this is my first time on your blog. Brilliant. Alexa rank 118,217 versus 53,308 for LG. Scobleizer has you both whipped at 22,006. I really like your blog thanks for the link. - Thomas Power

Thank you Thomas - I'm not really trying to go for traffic, but I appreciate when others appreciate what I write. - Jesse Stay

Hey Jesse c'mon "the winner of the game is the one with all the names". Zuckerberg has won round two. Traffic counts. Yahoo won round one. - Thomas Power

BTW, keep in mind that Zynga has 250 million users (or so) - just wait until they integrate Facebook credits into their Farmville and other apps - Jesse Stay

Oooh those are BIG numbers. Who owns Zynga? Or should I say who will own Zynga? - Thomas Power

and remember Facebook has an Ads API as well - they haven't even begun promoting that as a Connect possibility - Jesse Stay

Thomas, I think Zynga owns Zynga :-) - Jesse Stay

just off for my bran flakes http://bit.ly/6Fs6xK - Thomas Power

Almost makes me want to become a facebook app developer...but I don't like the idea of putting all my eggs in one basket and relying on the health of a 3rd party site. If/when facebook goes belly-up, it would take all my apps with it. - April

Here's the Ads API (in beta right now): http://wiki.developers.facebook.com/index... - Jesse Stay

April, that's not happening for a long time if it does happen - Jesse Stay

If you're really looking for the future, check out what Kynetx is doing: http://kynetx.com - you should build for that platform. That's the future (and I predict Facebook will also join this standard) - Jesse Stay

Yeah well there is also the issue of playing by someone else's rules. I have never been one that likes to do that. I like making my own rules. - April

April, that's the pain of any 3rd party platform, yes. Look at Kynetx if you don't want to play by others' rules - Jesse Stay

I'll have to take a closer look at that when I have some free time to devote to it. (January, things will slow down some for me) - April

Like Andy said, you have almost 3 years to call this one. 3 internet years. Stuff happens in that time. - Andrew Smith

Very cool of Louis to engage in this bit of self-analysis and self-criticism (reminds me a bit of Andrew Sullivan's thoughtful introspection regarding his former enthusiasm for the Iraq War). But LG may still be right in the long term. - Sean McBride

John Dierckx

November 27, 2009 from Flickr - Comment - Like - Share

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Loic Le Meur

@stevegillmor wonder why you still use i! Are you The only one left?

November 27, 2009 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

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so I can have this conversation with you loic. - Steve Gillmor

Loic Le Meur

@braker1nine I promise and I deliver, too :-) but we want quality so sometimes we take our time too

November 27, 2009 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

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Zee. to Zee.'s feed, TheNextWeb Forum

Our Computers Are Down! - http://thenextweb.com/shareab...

November 27, 2009 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

friday night, Alfredo 亜瑠布れっど, justsoblogger and 35 other people liked this

Funny!! :) - Susan Beebe

Office workers are shown to be playing solitaire... - TrafficBug

Hüseyin Mert to Hüseyin's feed, Appetite

Axess.im - Create Your Basic Page - http://axess.im/

November 20, 2009 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Jason, yasin, LouCypher and 3 other people liked this

An easy tool to create web pages, Even you can add html, custom css, embed. You can also choose a custom name for your page. #turkish #tool (sample page: http://axess.im/hmert ) - Hüseyin Mert from Bookmarklet

4 more comments

:) - Hüseyin Mert

hayırlı olsun diyelim :) - Eren Can

webrazzi tanıtmış siteyi :D http://www.webrazzi.com/2009... yapanlara iyi moral olmuştur. Tabi çok yapması gereken şey var - Hüseyin Mert

the syntax it produces is garbage - Vezquex

font tag, divs instead of paragraphs, "Apple-style-span" - Vezquex

Srikanth AD to Srikanth's feed, Social Media Club, Social Media, RWW: The Future of Tech, TheNextWeb Forum, Appetite, WebWare24, Friends of Mashable

How to Transfer Your Image and Music Files from Your Droid to Your Mac/PC? | Tech Inspiration - http://www.ekoob.com/how-to-...

November 21, 2009 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

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Warren Whitlock

real stories of real people going for it http://www.dothatbook.com/

November 21, 2009 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

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Zee.

Got the luggage! - http://zee.me/status/256

November 21, 2009 from Zee's Status - Comment - Like - Share

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Toni Shrader

Do You Know How the Google Search Engine Really Works? - http://www.umarketingu.com/marketi...

November 21, 2009 from U Marketing U - Comment - Like - Share

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Aline Ohannessian to Aline's feed, Social Media Club, Twitter, WordPress, TheNextWeb Forum

Chat Catcher » Capture blog comments from Twitter, FriendFeed & Identi.ca - http://chatcatcher.com/cc/

November 20, 2009 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Shey, AainaA-Ridtz A.R, bellegarde-webb and 3 other people liked this

quite similar to disqus... - Aline Ohannessian from Bookmarklet

Is this a wordpress plugin that shows the 'reactions' below the comments box in each post? - TrafficBug

All I need too is comments that are not spam and it is not fun at all! - bellegarde-webb

Anders Abrahamsson

Nu lördag! #offtweet #afk #afk - shutting up! reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeest bilingual #tweetsilence/FacebookMute #fb

November 21, 2009 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

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