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aarontay › Comments
Amandadon't and Sir Shuping is just sir liked this
...depends on what you mean by "information literacy." :) Years ago I subscribed to a bunch of blogs that were specifically about IL (e.g., http://txstateinfolit.blogspot.com/, http://www.information-literacy.net/, http://infolitlib20.blogspot.com/) but quickly found that they didn't really address issues that I found useful in my own instruction practice. The blogs that I've found the...
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- Catherine Pellegrino
Thanks, I am indeed looking for blogs similar to http://pegasuslibrarian.com/
- aarontay
Catherine has great ideas on her own blog, too! http://www.spurioustuples.net/
- Megan loves summer
aw, shucks - thanks, Megan! Yeah, I doubt you're going to find many more like Iris' blog. She's a one-of-a-kind. :)
- Catherine Pellegrino
Char Booth - infomational.wordpress.com
- jambina
I've tagged few in my commonplace book: http://stephenfrancoeur.tumblr.com/tagged...
- Stephen le Francoeur
Here's another one that's new to me: http://pumpedlibrarian.blogspot.com/
- Stephen le Francoeur
Eric Phetteplace seems to mostly write about tech, but when he writes about IL and instruction he is ON FIRE: http://patametadata.blogspot.com/
- Catherine Pellegrino
EBSCO and Ex Libris slapfight. Pass the popcorn. http://t.co/wdZFuT5Gfb
Sarah, Galadriel C., Libraryman and 7 other people liked this
Like Terrell Owens, I have my popcorn ready.
- Julian
*munch munch munch* (We're in the middle of this: we're an Ex Libris shop, looking to activate Primo Central soon, and the bulk of our database content comes from EBSCO.)
- Catherine Pellegrino
Highly entertaining. But, evidence of exactly why we need to remember and act like we are in the midst of a bunch of business deals, not altruistic nonprofits (even if that is our role - which may also be debatable).
- Lisa Hinchliffe
Yes. One of the things I like best about this is Orbis Cascade Alliance's tone.
- Catherine Pellegrino
If Ex Libris just got the metadata from the publishers in EBSCO's databases directly, then SFX would sort it out, since EBSCO metadata is in SFX. But it'd be nice if EBSCO would play ball a little more.
- Zamms
Now entering The Octagon...
- Marie
What language is that signature from Matti in?
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
Hebrew. Ex Libris is based out of Israel.
- Catherine Pellegrino
I'm not allowed to talk about why we didn't implement Primo at MfPOW a few years back.
- $tephanie•Cog$ciLibrarian
Stephanie, did you sign a non-disclosure document about it?
- copystar
The Orbis Cascade Board of Directors are my new favorite people.
- Jenica
Now that makes sense (concerning the sig.)
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
this rocks.
- jambina
In related news, does anyone know if ebrary content is indexed by EDS?
- Meg V. Meg
not any more. (I don't know)
- DJF
Could someone explain this to me like I'm five, please?
- Andy
EBSCO owns content. Ex Libris would like to include that content in its Primo discovery layer, so that users at libraries who subscribe to the EBSCO products can find it using the library's single search box. EBSCO says, "No. If you want to access the EBSCO metadata, you need to subscribe to OUR discovery layer."
- DJF
Ebsco, like Proquest, is in the position of providing both content and a discovery tool. They are taking the lead in ensuring that their content is best/only accessed via THEIR discovery tool. As a result, Ex Libris's discovery tool can't effectively access EBSCO content. And all commercial entities in the game are failing to play nicely with each other.
- Jenica
(Two of us assessed it about the same at the same time, so you know we must be right. AND AWESOME.)
- Jenica
I support Orbis Cascade's position that if EBSCO and Ex Libris won't play together, then neither of them gets any money. Of course, in this particular case, that's not really fair to Ex Libris, who has no control over what EBSCO lets them see.
- DJF
I'm in love with the fact that a library organization is standing up and, in public, plainly asserting its right as a paying customer to demand better of the industry. Fuck. Yes.
- Jenica
Gotcha. Thanks!
- Andy
Also: discovery layers are serious business.
- Andy
I think EBSCO's fucking this up. They need to build a wall between the discovery business and the content business, and fast. Because if the content business is not indexed in a neutral way, then people using Primo or Summon will not find the EBSCO content. If people don't find the content, it doesn't get used. And that's how databases get cancelled.
- DJF
O_o
- Hedgehog
The timing of this memo is odd as we learned a few weeks ago that EBSCO has agreed to re-do the API. I'm more upset with ProQuest They won't even offer us an API to use with Primo.
- Jen
One comment I've heard regarding this situation is that their library holdings are only a small part of EBSCO's portfolio. Of course you would think Proquest, who has a higher percentage of library content, would care more.
- Elizabeth Brown
It's a good thing I wasn't eating popcorn when I got to "and use sub-standard API" at the bottom of page 2, or it'd be all over my keyboard now. It's like when you're trying *really really hard* to be the unbiased voice of reason in a debate but then a "plus your product sucks!" just slips out there.
- Deborah Fitchett
It would have been handy to have all of pop into view last month when we had Serials Solutions, EBSCO, and ExLibris deliver back to back one-hour discovery layer pitches to our consortium. It was my first full-on vendor experience post MLIS and I was alternately amused and appalled by the EBSCO hard core FUD.
- Heather
Heather, FUD is EBSCO's primary product line. We've all seen that in action.
- DJF
I used to work in a comms unit that supported sales guys and anytime the FUD was rolled out it was a clear sign of a product line in trouble and/or sales reps that didn't understand or respect their audience. Sales rep tactics appear to be a transferrable skill.
- Heather
"there is an inherent conflict of interest when content providers attempt to control a library’s choice of discovery." But since their interest is to make money, as much as possible, and control as many markets as they can, where's the conflict? I'm glad there's pushback, but why would we NOT expect a company to vertically integrate and resist sharing? In some ways its more a conflict of public interest for libraries to rely on these bozos.
- barbara fister
I'm just left saying "This is why you can't have nice discovery tools."
- Zamms
Must say I first read Ebsco's response and it was a very good attempt to cloud Pmatters, I was almost convinced..., shows how much I know about discovery :P Anyway I never quite got why it's always about ebscohost , Proquest does the same. Or is it because their databases have metadata that can be obtained in other ways?
- aarontay
Yes, Barbara, yes. If you're a librarian, Ebsco's position looks ethically sketchy. If you're a business analyst, they appear to have a sound strategy. Ex Libris's positioning of themselves as The Good Guys Fighting The Good Fight for libraries pisses me off, because i don't believe for a second that, if they "win" and Ebsco opens up their data, Ex Libris won't turn around and try to...
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- Jenica
Aaron, what is the link to the EBSCO response?
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
All of them here: http://www.orbiscascade.org/index...
- Jaclyn aka spamgirl
how did ProQuest / Serials Solutions / Summon get around this?
- $tephanie•Cog$ciLibrarian
They go to the journal publishers and get the metadata. It's not 100% of say CINAHL, but maybe 90%+ but of course it's very "thin metadata" (ebsco's term), sometimes not even abstract or subject headings and usually no full text. It can make quite a difference sometimes.
- aarontay
Thanks Jackyn.
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
A message went around at my Primo-using library this morning saying that use of our EBSCO full text resources have declined 64% and use of their indexes 73%. I think we'll be looking for this content elsewhere...
- Megan loves summer
phew. well, I can't say I'm sorry to see this chickenshit tactic backfire.
- RepoRat
I like most of my EBSCO contacts, but the guy they had delivering the FUD sales pitch when we looked at EDS last year really turned me off.
- Royce's favorite Anna
So I just learned that Proquest dumped hundreds of thousands of dissertations into Turnitin. I think this is evil. I also learned, poking around, that many ETDs have a "run it through Turnitin" step. I don't think libraries should be supporting a private corporation that relies on a dubious fair use claim to build their empire of badness.
Yvonne, Kirsten, Garret McMahon and Yo Joe. No, go slow. liked this
Sorry, just had to vent. Curious if any of you feel differently.
- barbara fister
WHAT? This is just ridiculous on so many levels.
- Lisa Hinchliffe
hmmm. so, publishing your dissertation with PQ now means you give up your copyright too? doesn't Turnitin take rights over everything that it puts in its maw?
- RudĩϐЯaЯïan
from YouFeed
I agree. It sucks.
- Marianne
It's not the fair use claim that bothers me about Turnitin. After all, if you think Google books is fair use, then you can't complain about the transformative use of Turnitin. My complaint has always been the fact that my school requires students to enhance their business model in order to pass a course.
- DJF
from Android
...I wonder if mine's in there? how would I check, if my campus doesn't have Turnitin?
- Catherine Pellegrino
I've been complaining about their business practices for years. Looks like I started complaining on my blog in _2006_ (!!!). http://jasongriffey.net/wp...
- Jason Griffey
from iPhone
(note also that students in classes that use Turnitin are required to accept the company's terms of use, which grant that company a license to use the material submitted, so they don't actually depend on the fair use defense. See also my complaints about facilitating commerce while doing my homework.)
- DJF
In court they have relied on fair use (and if that flies, it should totally be okay for HathiTrust too, Google Books and any other way people want to mine copyrighted texts) but in this case it doesn't seem anyone gave them permission except ProQuest. Maybe the third party checkoff thing is how they are getting around it. It's still outrageous, imo. While poking around, though, I was amazed at how many universities say they won't accept a dissertation until hit has been run through Turnitin.
- barbara fister
I bet it is the third party checkoff - I don't think they could do that otherwise.
- Sarah
Ah, I haven't read the decision carefully. Given other lawsuits, it seemed a really weird invocation of fair use (so long as you use it for something, SURE, GO RIGHT AHEAD! But libraries? whoa, have to think about that...) I wonder how long that third party link has been an option (or default or whatever it is...)
- barbara fister
BTW, here's a press release.This happened over a year ago. How many people know about it? http://pages.turnitin.com/rs...
- barbara fister
I know it's been added within the past five years or so, because our Graduate College had a fit when they realized some of the dissertations were being sold on Amazon without the students knowing it. PQ provided a new agreement with a yes or no option at that point.
- Sarah
Because the grad students didn't know that they were doing that. Finding your dissertation on amazon without knowing it would be there was shocking for many. They get the PQ selling it, but expected it to just stay there.
- Sarah
Had a similar experience to Sarah, only in my case it was library brass who got the Fatal Email from a pissed-off graduate, and they assumed it was somehow my fault -- either I had set this up somehow, or I'd told ProQuest it was okay.
- RepoRat
I'm very lucky in that our Graduate College is very sane.
- Sarah
Holy shit.
- Meg V. Meg
Given my generally anti-copyright stance, I think I'm totally fine with this?
- Steele Lawman
But given that dissertations aren't published in the same way that published books and articles are, I think I might have a problem with this? Clearly I'm conflicted.
- Steele Lawman
It's a puzzle. I was a tad annoyed when I found Goodreads was importing my personal blog onto their site, but then thought "well, it does have a cc license." I can see why people who didn't realize Proquest could sell it on any platform including ones they use daily were taken aback.
- barbara fister
I'm not sure why dissertations aren't public domain in the first place.
- Bill Hooker
(Turning up in Turnitin would annoy me though.)
- barbara fister
US attitudes are very market-oriented. This post at IHE today on Swedish approaches to dissertations was interesting .... http://www.insidehighered.com/blogs...
- barbara fister
That is quite interesting - thanks for posting!
- Sarah
Stupid question, how does ProQuest having the right to do whatever they want with dissertations lead to Amazon? I've seen questions about students confused to see it there.
- aarontay
If they can do whatever they want then that includes selling it on Amazon (rather than just through their own platform) where it'll get a wider distribution but authors weren't expecting to see it there.
- Deborah Fitchett
Amazon is not publishing the books. ProQuest is listing them on Amazon, which it's allowed to do since the students generally given ProQuest a license to distribute them.
- DJF
I'd still like to see Barbara's original source for where she got this information (unless it's a private communication, etc.) -- not that I don't believe her, but I'd like to see the context, etc. -- and I'm still curious how dissertation authors can determine if their work is contained within Turnitin or not -- or are we to understand that ALL PQ dissertations are included?
- Catherine Pellegrino
Sorry, missed this question way back when - I believe it came up on WPA-L but is also in this news release http://turnitin.com/en_us... It's not clear, but it sounds as if it's everything post 2008, though maybe opt-outers are out. I don't know how authors would know if their work is there or not.
- barbara fister
My bigger problem with TUrnitin is that it teaches students how to plagiarise more deviously. As an academic I have used it when my radar went off abt student work so I manually uploaded (unit outline tells students I may do this). Think the PQ uploads feed into bigger text/data mining issues & copyright which will utterly explode in next 2 years
- Kathryn is Blake in Hindi
from iPhone
I dunno, isn't plagiarising with sufficient deviousness indistinguishable from a literature review? Is the problem that it doesn't teach them how to plagiarise deviously *enough*?
- Deborah Fitchett
Nah - most common plagiarism is throwing a thesaurus at someone else's work then passing it off as their own.
- Kathryn is Blake in Hindi
from iPhone
Anyone here using Buffer to share content?
Just trying to figure it out. Seems promising but also a little confusing.
- Laura Norvig
from iPhone
"Oh, if it's for your thesis, maybe you should use the *real* databases" #discoverylayerburnout
Sir Shuping is just sir, LibrarianOnTheLoose, Yo Joe. No, go slow. and 3 other people liked this
isn't that the whole point of a discovery layer?
- kendrak
to get tired of them, so we don't have to use them anymore?
- Meg V. Meg
as far as I can tell, discovery layers exist to create conference talks about discovery layers
- Pete #TeamMonique
Discovery layers exist because we're convinced undergrads are too stupid to learn how to use the real databases.
- Zamms
Or maybe we're too lazy to use real databases anymore?
- kendrak
or maybe small pots of data are less useful than larger pots of data to explore against?
- awd
We're holding onto the dream of federated search.
- Zamms
We should create a conference about how to create conference presentations about discovery layers.
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
"federated" was doomed from the start... response times take too long without holding the indexes locally -- and if you'r eholding the indexes closely, you may as well integrate them into one master index to rule them all with 3 or 7 or 9 subindicies that mkae sense depending on the data supplied in the original indexing
- awd
It's not that undergrads are too stupid, it's that they're too busy. But for a thesis omg yeah.
- Deborah Fitchett
Or maybe discovery layers are appealing partially because database interfaces suck? We should push to fix the systems we pay for instead of agreeing to buy more systems to stick over the top. (Side eye to Sierra, which I'm fairly sure we're going to get.)
- kaijsa
It's not that Summon doesn't give you lots of good results; it's that you can't rely on it to give you *exhaustive* results, and for a thesis literature review you really need to make sure you've covered all your bases. Maybe some fields it would be okay, just not any I've ever been involved in.
- Deborah Fitchett
exhaustive in what sense? Given that Summon, EDS etc are bigger than any 1 database & say, I use " Add results beyond your library's collection" + login before searching to get access to Wos/Proquest A&I/ERIC results etc or in the case of EDS uncheck "Available in Library Collection (Physical & Online)", how is this necessarily less exhaustive than the pre-discovery days of going to one...
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- aarontay
That's not exhaustive, that's *exhausting* ;)
- Meg V. Meg
I do have sympathy for the argument that Summon , EDS, make it difficult to do precise searches to be fairly sure you have done a comprehensive search that you missed something though (I think I don't trust the relevancy enough so I would go very deep....). And of course no argument that Summon/EDS + databases would be more powerful than either alone. Lastly, I wonder does it really...
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- aarontay
Asking honestly: are 317 million results useful? I suggest subject indices for advanced research not just because of their depth, but because there's *some* sort of selection going on there. I'm really torn -- some days seriously anti-discovery, some days seeing its benefit for the naive searcher. But the tech doesn't live up to the promise, so usually I feel that the millions of results aren't actually that useful.
- Amandadon't
"Less is more" argument has it's points. Still I wonder. Assume a case where you manually did a search separately in 5 quality databases. Then someone (say Ebsco which does have quite a few A&Is) came along and offered you a option to search all 5 of them at one shot. Would you take up the offer? Why not? How about we ramp it up to 10 ? 20? At what point do you prefer to search...
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- aarontay
Sure, but where exactly, among your 317 million results, is the stuff you would have missed out on? And if you can't point to all of that stuff, then aren't you still missing out on it? And, really, if you're getting 317 million results from a truly exhaustive search for your thesis lit review, then you need a more narrow topic, and subject indices tend to offer better ways of helping you move towards that.
- Meg V. Meg
Staff you missed out on using only databases? That's more of an empirical matter on how often that occurs, but grad students have told me they found very relevant stuff in Summon they missed after months of looking at databases. I myself have had this experience. Of course the reverse happens as well, though i really think people who are not smart enough to use the articles they find to...
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- aarontay
Oh well, computer science. :-) (Though I suspect compsci students would still go to specialised subject databases like gitHub, they just wouldn't realise that's what they're doing.) It's different if you're doing something like chemistry where (never mind the utility of structure searching) key databases just aren't indexed by Summon. Or like fire engineering or earthquake engineering...
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- Deborah Fitchett
Who was the person back in the 80s who said that 30 results was a good amount of records to find in a narrowed down results list? I thought it was Mary something, but not Mary Ellen Bates.
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
I love Aaron's point (if I'm reading him right) about how easy it is to get caught up in databases as if research = searching databases. In my narrow experience, it seems like expert humanities faculty know and respect the subject databases in their field, but actually find most of their sources through the stuff they read and the citations therein, or through searching things like Google and Google Scholar.
- Steele Lawman
Citation mining! It's a better rabbit hole to fall down because you're more likely to stay on topic.
- Zamms
Yeah I usually end up finding more stuff mining citations (forward and back). But isn't there a empirical test we can do here? I vaguely remember someone posting a informal test of eds or was it primo here and was surprised at how well it did, but I can't remember the methodology.
- aarontay
Empirical tests are hard--while we can measure recall, it's tougher to test whether a novice researcher with a vague question and limited understanding of relevant terminology will be able to find "relevant" items. I've lost count of the number of undergrads who come to me because they've tried the discovery layer and can't find anything but then have eureka when we go to a subject database (or even an aggregator). The items *were* indexed in the discovery layer, but they just couldn't get at 'em as easily.
- Megan loves summer
Anyway I don't know, much smarter people than me have debated the virtues of discovery systems before me not sure what I add to the conversation. I do spend crazy amounts of times running through searches done by users including looking at refinements they do and staring at the top 10 results. Essentially even at this superficial level, when they do well they do very well but...
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- aarontay
I agree with kaijsa if the existing non discovery interfaces were intuitive in any way at all we wouldn't be trying to throw discovery layers on top
- LibrarianOnTheLoose
from BuddyFeed
Wonder if things like this will ever help us discover better http://cs.stanford.edu/people...
- barbara fister
wow Barbara that is too effing cool
- LibrarianOnTheLoose
from BuddyFeed
Concerning this thread http://friendfeed.com/lsw..., I was thinking that the reason we want grad students to use the real databases is because of the controlled vocab. That it is often easier for peeps to find all of the best results if the student knows that the correct term is yyy instead of zzz. While we may teach them about thesauri and controlled
maʀtha liked this
Vocab, how much do they actually USE controlled vocab when searching on their own post instruction session or one-on-one session?
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
Any research out there on this? It would be interesting to get search logs from some vendors, not just search queries numbers, results and downloads.
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
That's a interesting question, we do have data on how often the subject term facet is used on the Summon side (not often), but that isn't controlled & is a different breed of users. Also even if they don't use controlled vocab purposely to browse/ as search terms are they generally getting better results compared to discovery systems even without it?
- aarontay
Unique visitors to Summon seems almost constant all the months, was highest in Mar 2013, but otherwise hovered at the same level for Jan/Feb/Apr within 4% margin . Comparatively Encore was jumping up and down depending on the month within almost 20% margin.. No sure what that means.
- aarontay
i'm not familiar with encore? what is it?
- Christina Pikas
Innovative's "next generation catalogue", think normal "classic catalogue" but with facets and features like "did you mean", spell check, community tagging, relevance ranking etc. Typically does not include articles, though we have Encore synergy that does include some of it but as a secondary option.
- aarontay
Not sure what's happening there. Are these capturing 'hits' from Google Analytics or is this each product's individual stats collection service?
- copystar
Google analytics for both. Is not really comparable in terms of page views due to the fact that Encore includes item detail pages and Summon hands over to the classic catalogue, but that shouldn't affect unique visitors I would think. My theory is that the next generation catalogue swings so much because certain months users are doing assignments and go for databases for articles so...
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- aarontay
Hmm, I don't think I buy into that theory because almost all of our use stats (from gatecounts, to website hits, to shelving counts, to database and catalogue use) all follow patterns of high and low use. If anything, I would think that Summon (serving articles) would have more variation of use than Encore (serving books). I think you need another data source to suss this out
- copystar
I'll look at the native stats of summon, It could be some limitation in google analytics.. The last i checked in Jan and Feb they (Google analytics and summon stats) were remarkably similar though.
- aarontay
Yesterday, American Journal of Public Health emailed authors of *already published* articles to say that the journal's closed-access period has been extended from 2 years to 10 years, unless authors are willing to pony up $1000 (which the journal considers to be a "steeply discounted rate"). Uhhhh...ransom much?
Angel R. Rivera, suelibrarian and Yo Joe. No, go slow. liked this
Huh, but of course they can't withdraw the PubMedCentral copy. So is this just preying on authors who don't know what PMC is?
- Meg V. Meg
I wonder how many takers they'll get.
- Marie
HAHAHAHAHA *sob*
- lris
2013 seems to be the year of publishers trying to figure out what the hell they can get away with.
- RepoRat
"Additionally, you may purchase a Noncommercial Common Use License (NCUL) for $500. This license enables readers to use your article for noncommercial purposes without the need to purchase permissions, and it also permits free reproduction of your article."
- Meg V. Meg
Unlike. Also, can they even--? No, what am I thinking, they own the copyright, don't they. <head-desk>
- Deborah Fitchett
feh.
- Marianne
See, this kind of thing (without the PMC aspect) is what I was wondering about with regard to the RUSQ situation: what can/will/does happen when a journal/society/publisher decides to renege on a previous agreement about OA? Obviously there are lots of possible answers to that question and a lot will depend on the contract language, but I think we may see more of this in the near future.
- Catherine Pellegrino
Catherine: And there's one of the strongest arguments for CC-BY: CC licenses are legally binding and can't be undone for a given article once applied. RR: As an optimist, I'd say that's the natural flipside of OA finally gaining some serious traction--looking for every possible way to $ubvert it.
- Walt Crawford
Well, the publisher CAN change the license under which it makes an article available. But if I received a copy of the article with a license that allows redistribution, then there's not much point in the publisher doing so, except to try to squeeze money out of people too stupid to google.
- DJF
Wow. Ow, too much headdesk. Pre-2006 I published in two journals that were OA and became TA as well as five journals that changed owners so now that stuff belongs to two evil empires and two small tollgates. All self-archived but yeah, get yer rights while you can.
- barbara fister
I have an idea: It can go OA 70 years after the death of author. If it's a work of corporate authorship, 95 years from publication or 120 years from creation, whichever expires first. That formula has been well tested and should fit better into existing workflows.
- lris
As Walt kind of says, I think this is a good thing in the get-worse-before-it-gets-better plan.
- Steele Lawman
http://gclibrary.commons.gc.cuny.edu/2013... (tweeted at them too)
- Meg V. Meg
I really wish I could get Jill onto FF. She is the person who wrote that article that I linked to earlier. http://dx.doi.org/10...
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
Nicely said!
- Walt Crawford
yes, that's VERY good.
- RepoRat
I don't get it. As mentioned its already in PMC so what's the point here?
- aarontay
Man, this serials stuff makes eBooks look like a gentleman's duel.
- Andy
The point is for the publisher to try to suck extra money from faculty who may not know any better.
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
Rachel Walden, Betsy #TeamMonique, suelibrarian and 2 other people liked this
Ooo, are you an ebrary subscriber too?
- Zamms
Seriously, I am working on a presentation to explain ebrary to users. It is necessary.
- Zamms
safari, books24x7,... yep. sigh.
- Christina Pikas
It's a question that comes up every single orientation....
- Hedgehog
Need me to share my presentation?
- Zamms
I don't think it's just ebrary.... The whole concept of an ebook that can't be read off-line seems alien to most users.
- aarontay
EBL, feh
- maʀtha
Project MUSE, OTH, lets one download the entire book, save, and print. Chapter by chapter, of course, but, still, kudos to them.
- maʀtha
We have a libguide that shows what can be done for various ebook packages. http://libguides.du.edu/content... found within http://libguides.du.edu/ebooks
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
Joe you rock. ROCK rock rock!
- RudĩϐЯaЯïan
The LIS students who put this together a year or two ago rock rock rock. Some of the info might be slightly out of date.
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
Some of our ebrary titles can be fully downloaded, some can't, and you can't tell which is which until you try to do it (which requires creating an account).
- Meg V. Meg
Chris, I'd be interested in your preso.
- RepoRat
Oooh, I'll be stealing from Joe's guide. The U of Melbourne also has a nice one: http://unimelb.libguides.com/content...
- Megan loves summer
Surprisingly sciencedirect ebooks have no drm either. Chapter by chapter downloads as well. That often puzzles users too , why chapter by chapter.
- aarontay
I'll post an edited version of the preso when it's done. (You don't need the slides about how to login using our account info...)
- Zamms
thanks!
- RepoRat
common behavior? Summon results list - clicking on the title takes you to the full text not a page with more detailed citation information... is this typical for discovery services? This is how our new article search is and I find it weird.
I think it is. More Google like, I suppose.
- Stephen le Francoeur
I think that's based on whether or not you have One-Click turned on. We don't, and I get a link resolver result page on articles with more than one access point.
- kaijsa
EDL doesn't do this (or if it does, it's turn-off-able)
- Meg V. Meg
We do have one click turned on for our Summon. We try to have it go to the most stable full-text sources, publisher first, then from a priority list of various vendors. We also have ArticleLinker set up on a top frame if the patron would like to see if the FT is available from other sources besides what was presented from the one-click.
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
What's EDL? Summon & other discovery services I think also has direct linking is independent of your link resolver settings. In our Summon instance, in some cases the link brings you to the landing pages like http://www.sciencedirect.com/science... , that's not directly the full-text, though in some cases it does bring you direct to full-text with pdf loaded though eg Oxford journals.
- aarontay
Funny you should ask. I thought it was the new "EBSCO Discovery Layer"? Though their web stuff makes it sound like it's called EDS? But we have a trial now, and I am 99% sure that I've never heard it called EDS, because I would have made a Ross Perot joke.
- Meg V. Meg
Definitely EDS. If you click the title, it brings you to a detailed record screen (usu. with abstract though not always), and there are links to either full text or link resolver that show on the results and/or detailed record screen, depending on how you set it up. (This is the same way that other EBSCO dbs work.) There's no option to make clicking the title go directly to the source. The one exception is their "Web News" database, which as far as I know is documented nowhere although it does exist.
- JffKrlsn
Always heard it called EDS. It's quite interesting when you consider the main selling point of services like pubget is that you can do a search and download the pdf directly from the search screen without even seeing the native interface. That's one step up even from Summon with one-click 360link turned on.
- aarontay
EDS (Summon, too, I thought) presents a "Full Text" button (or other specifically named option buttons to check for linked full text or ILL) right in the search results list by default. Click the Title for the record/metadata & click the Full Text (or other buttons) for the actual content.
- awd
our new default is to go from citation to full-text without stopping at link resolver page. I prefer it the other way, but I think my colleagues' research supports the one-click thing - so I defer to the users.
- $tephanie•Cog$ciLibrarian
I'm coming around to one-click. When we only have one full-text option, it goes straight to that from Summon, and it's nice. I think we're just worried about things breaking and not giving people options if there is more than one provider. We should probably stop worrying because things break all the time and we cope.
- kaijsa
scopus has a separate button to grab and download the pdfs of any selected articles in your results set. I can see why that's handy. I'm not terribly keen on the title linking as there is a full text button in the record anyway
- Christina Pikas
We hate the download button in Scopus, it's a bit confusing since it will download citation/abstract only if there is no full-text which confuses users. Plus we have this little thing about restricting downloads via ezproxy beyond a certain amt in a short time..... Plus the download manager uses java....sigh..
- aarontay
kaijsa, for 360link at least, you can do a helper window iframe, with links in the frame on what to do if the content below is broken. Disadvanatages are well it's a iframe, so some sites will not work well with it, and also for some browsers depending on cookie settings, there will be "cross-domain" issues with cookies or something particularly with ezproxy, there are ways around it..... http://laimages.s3.amazonaws.com/data...
- aarontay
By the way, if you are talking about "page with more detailed citation information." in Summon, you can see this by hovering over the title for a popup or clicking on the small magnifying icon which will popup the detailed record in Summon. It is very easily missed (think Summon 2.0 changes this?), most people just click on the result, which will then go to the link resolver, which is...
more...
- aarontay
we have the same frame thingie that @aarontay mentions. except the peoples don't see it. still, good idea; I point it out in classes. dunno if this link will work: http://vb3lk7eb4t.search.seria...
- $tephanie•Cog$ciLibrarian
Here is ours http://bb2sz3ek3z.search.seria... , think need lots of work on design/wordings.. One of the links leads to a online form for reporting broken links
- aarontay
You all gave me some great suggestions a while back about people in the library world who might be good candidates for CHE's 2013top-tech-innovators profiles.FYI, I wound up writing about Bethany Nowviskie: http://chronicle.com/article...
LB: #TeamMonique, Kirsten, Yo Joe. No, go slow. and 7 other people liked this
And a very good thing, too!
- barbara fister
Digital humanities? What manner of beast is this? :P
- aarontay
Full text of email: "As of August 2013, some changes will be made to Harvard Business Review (HBR) article access for Business Source customers. This change will not affect institutions that have already purchased the expanded rights from Harvard Business Publishing. Further, customers buying a site license will not be impacted. As you are likely aware, full-text licensing agreements with publishers are subject to change in all databases, and EBSCO is committed to providing our customers with as much advance notice as possible on full-text content changes as often as we possibly can. With that said, we would like to inform you that as of August 1, 2013, all databases containing HBR will experience a change for 500 of the articles. These articles will become read-only, and will be clearly marked as such. For example, in Business Source Complete, there are currently 12,824 full-text articles from HBR, and 12,324 will continue to have the existing access functionality. If libraries wish...
more...
- awd
so, are they telling us which 500 articles?
- ellbeecee
I love how they thank me for my understanding when I'm totally confused. Which 500 articles? "Read-only"? "Course rights?"
- Rebecca Hedreen
Yeah. (our internal person just forwarded this to me as well). The "fuck you, HBR" part of me is assuming those 500 are articles they're republishing somehow (like this - http://www.amazon.com/HBRs-Mu... ) and this is a DANGER WILL ROBINSON thing.
- ellbeecee
what Rebecca said. what the heck does this mean??
- RudĩϐЯaЯïan
from YouFeed
(or will the 500 articles be a moving target based on what's popular at the time? Will they be the 500 most recent? This isn't telling us *anything* other than "there's changes a-comin'!") #grumpylaura
- ellbeecee
I'm thinking their 500 most popular articles.
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
how will this work technically? no links to the direct url? couldn't you reverse engineer a link?
- Christina Pikas
They DO NOT LIKE faculty using their stuffs for electronic reserves. I'm sure they know the most popular articles and they will use magick to prevent us from linking to them without many extra dollars.
- $tephanie•Cog$ciLibrarian
I'm assuming they mean: no linking, no downloading, no printing (and, by means of blocking those 3 things, no course reserves. unless you pay their special fees.).
- Marianne
So, we will have to scan from the print to put into reserves? Can hbr stop that? Is there language in the print version that says what can and can't be fair use for reserve readings?
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
Yeah, if you own the print, that would be completely different. There aren't any licensing terms when you own something--just copyright law. (You really think they'll ban printing? Don't think I've seen that in EBSCO before.)
- JffKrlsn
What Rebecca, Rudi said, "Read only" ???
- aarontay
Instead of a direct permalink, I guess we're to create a search which brings back only the one true result (like we are supposed to do now) ... and enforcement is unrealistic at best. Anyway, they're gonzo imho.
- awd
I read that in a meeting and went "what the hell?" I don't understand how this is enforceable at all.
- ~Courtney F
I love this sentence so much: "As you are likely aware, full-text licensing agreements with publishers are subject to change in all databases, and EBSCO is committed to providing our customers with as much advance notice as possible on full-text content changes as often as we possibly can."
- Meg V. Meg
At a faculty meeting, got asked about ereserves for HBR articles..... immediately thought of this.... Told him will get back to him on this issue after checking with business librarians...
- aarontay
Ereserves for HBR would require special permissions from HBR directly. I'm still waiting for the quote on access to the articles. It is a static list, though
- ~Courtney F
the list of articles is static, courtney? Interesting. That would make me really suspect it's tied to their repackaging articles as books initiatives of late
- ellbeecee
So what's the bottom line here? What's changed exactly? Any further explanation from EBSCOhost about what we can now no longer do on this already restricted journal?
- Stephen le Francoeur
When I read the email a while back, I got the impression the list is of the articles most linked to and downloaded. I wish we'd drop our subscription because the terms of license make the materials next to worthless at a university. DO NOT USE THIS STUFF TO TEACH WITH. Okay, jerks.
- kaijsa
Even if "ereserves" is just a link to ebsco platform from courseware? That's not allowed? I was told the 500 includes popular stuff such as on leadership...
- aarontay
Aaron, the way I read the restriction, yes. Even that would not be allowed.
- ~Courtney F
They have always been weird about links in syllabi and course systems for years. Whether or not it's okay to recommend an HBR article to a student in a hushed whisper is still unclear.
- barbara fister
Yup, LBC, I confirmed twice that it's a static list (I was kind of surprised). Stephen, according to the quote I got, the "extended rights" would "include the ability to print, save to a folder and include PDF’s of these articles in course work". I'm not sure who they think will be able to afford this, because I can assure you, the quote I received is well out of our reach.
- ~Courtney F
sigh. Apparently our Acq dep't read the EBSCO letter, verified that we don't have the extended rights, and left it at that. Why does it take ME to push them towards finding out what the language means, and which titles are effected, and that we need to know which of the titles are heavily used here and which spend much time on course reserves???Those are pretty obvious questions right? I'm not some kind of savant, right?
- RudĩϐЯaЯïan
Rudy, the ebsco license for HBR already disallowed reserves, IIRC, and I know they monitored for linking to articles from within a CMS because the business school at a former workplace got hit by that.
- ellbeecee
Hmm. Then what's different now?
- RudĩϐЯaЯïan
Right now I can save a personal copy, I can print a personal copy, I can email myself a personal copy of all the HBR articles. Come August, 500 of these (apparently a static list) will be unavailable for saving/printing/whatever that personal copy - I can still read the article on screen. At least that's how I'm interpreting the letter.
- ellbeecee
That is a correct interpretation of the letter. No download, no print, not even saving the article to a folder.
- Zamms
On an unrelated note (ahem) that is totally disconnected from the content of the rest of this thread (ahem), I think libraries really need to make sure that students and faculty have mastered screen capture software, as it's essential for all sorts of scholarly work.
- Stephen le Francoeur
^^^ hee hee hee hee hee
- Catherine Pellegrino
I agree, Stephen, and have had similar thoughts. That's an important skill in the digital world.
- ellbeecee
huh. Yeah. there's gonna need ot be some explaining of that...
- RudĩϐЯaЯïan
'Twas thinking that we could have a real LSW virtual conference using our adobe connect or some such webinarish software. Could we do something like that this summer or fall?
♫410 I Coach 'em Up♫, Deborah Fitchett, Sir Shuping is just sir and 12 other people liked this
We can have parallel snarky and non-snarky tracks, with prizes for people that guess which is which most often. Like arXiv vs. snarXiv.
- John Dupuis
I want to moderate the snarky track.
- Andy
Depending on the time, would like to come in too.
- aarontay
I think it should be at least 12 hours so that everyone can come!
- Megan loves summer
Maybe something like noon to midnight eastern time? That will be like 5pm to 5am UT. What is that in Australia or NZ or Singapore?
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
Midnight to noon in Western Australia!
- Megan loves summer
That sounds like a great idea
- John: Thread Killer
Will there be a dance party?
- Running Slow
The Dance Party will be in Third Life. [We have to invent this future.]
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
We also need an award to present, like the Shovers & Makers or something. And the trophy needs to be a cod slicer.
- John Dupuis
you people crack me up
- maʀtha
Andy can take on Third Life. He's a futurist.
- Running Slow
If I can't moderate, I do want to talk to everyone about 5D printing.
- Andy
We could call the Shovers and Makers award simply the S&M award. Leg lamp?
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
we tried that 15 years ago and it didn't work. count me in.
- $tephanie•Cog$ciLibrarian
I think that'd be 4am - 4pm New Zealand time. Give or take some daylight savings. Anyway, doable. I think we should have a session where someone Skypes in to someone with a Scopia connection to someone with Adobe Connect.
- Deborah Fitchett
Typical weekday, Friday, or a Saturday?
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
potluck!
- $tephanie•Cog$ciLibrarian
RudĩϐЯaЯïan, kaijsa, Christina Pikas and 5 other people liked this
I guess the threat of perishing is a good motivator
- Megan loves summer
people love the Google
- maʀtha
I think it's either going to be very good, or very bad. Can't wait to see which one it is.
- aarontay
Looks like it's trending towards the latter :( . Partly because some questions are pretty much unanswerable (e.g why is so and so journal not found in GS? - I can speculate but ...). and perhaps no one except perhaps google and god. It's not like I can pick up a phone and call Google, the way my colleagues call Thompson reuters and Elsevier. All i can share is what i have seen when trying and the papers I have read on the topic (there are many).
- aarontay
It will be great because people love Google. Seriously. This has been my experience
- maʀtha
We'll be looking as discovery layers here over the next little while. Experiences people have had at their own institutions or articles/resources/reviews of the various vendor products would be appreciated.
Sir Shuping is just sir liked this
Thanks!
- John Dupuis
we did this: http://journal.code4lib.org/article... (well i helped test i sure didn't do any coding or any writing of the article or whatever)... it's amazing that there was really so little difference between them. That said, what we really miss in our current instantiation is the faceting which we can't get from what we're using right now.
- Christina Pikas
Very interesting, thanks. Odd how the way the article is formatted it's really hard to tell who the author is. You have to look down for the About the Author section.
- John Dupuis
We have been happy with Encore/Summon as the two types of discovery services, but I don't think we have published why we are happy. Also, we are paying $$$ for them, so they better be good. If you have questions, I would bet that cbrown at du dot edu might be able to talk to you more (or send to you documentation on how our decisions came to be) if you have questions.
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
Think I tweeted you this list that I am "Curating" https://sites.google.com/site... , a bit messy though. We are also using Encore (since 2008) and Summon (since this year).
- aarontay
Thanks, Aaron. Yes you did tweet it. It's a great list which I'm sure will be very helpful.
- John Dupuis
library people, brainstorming on library re-organization. do you have a structure/framework that you feel works well? If so, can you point me to an org chart or other info?
John (bird whisperer), Sir Shuping is just sir, kaijsa and 3 other people liked this
i find the crickets on this post most telling. ;)
- holly #ravingfangirl
I think it's hard to know what structure might be a "works well" structure without more information. My structure seems to work well, but I don't know how similar or different it is from your staff size and operations.
- lris
We are also pending a reorg discussion here; I collected a bunch of org charts; i cant say how well they work, but theyre interesting to see. Ill see fi I can add you to the dropbox folder - DM me your addy
- ωαřмaiden ❤Marrit Woman❤
We have about 15 librarians and 10 non-librarian staff, plus about 80 student workers, all divided into 5 departments, each with a department head. Department heads report to the director.
- lris
I don't think ours works especially well, but I also don't know what would work better. Departments mean less and less as the boundaries between functional areas break down. We're grappling with maybe reorganizing, too, so I'm paying attention to what everybody suggests.
- kaijsa
i didn't want to limit it because, well, i don't want to limit it. :) we're totally at the pie-in-the-sky point, so I just want to see what others are doing. i'd love to see those, warmaiden. will be in touch.
- holly #ravingfangirl
Have you read this piece on In the Library With the Lead Pipe about organizations and leadership? It is definitely pie-in-the-sky, but if that is where you're at, maybe it will be helpful. http://www.inthelibrarywiththe...
- Freeda B.
Here's our dream org chart style: http://lis.luther.edu/about.... We have three teams, with tons of cross training (and opportunities for more), a total of 18 full-time staff and around between 25 and student workers.
- Kathy
Rumor is that at Double Agent Fister's library the org chart is a blank white sheet of paper.
- Steele Lawman
Actually, our first draft of it (during a meeting with admin) was called "the crude pie chart." The final version was called "the crude pie chart on drugs." I love it, of course. It works for us, but that may be because it's a good fit for our institutional culture. https://gustavus.edu/library...
- barbara fister
Kathy, yours is really interesting. We don't have to wrestle with the dual IT / library identity.
- barbara fister
We are fortunate to have a automation specialist and a librarian with a 2nd masters in computer science. Makes it both easier and more difficult with working with University IT folks. (Oh, and to be clear, I'm not at Luther. We just covet their org chart.)
- Kathy
Too high level for me this discussion, but for me I think we often struggle between the issue of roles been too specialist/niche (in past) with the obvious disadvantages of silos vs been jack of all trades, until no one is really top flight at anything (right now apparently according to some people). My not so sophisticated thinking right now is we need a mix of generalists (I am one) and some extreme specialists. The exact mix I have no idea.
- aarontay
Barbara - we have your same org chart - except we also have a library director. We are getting push-back about peer-governance because it is a serious time commitment. How do you make it work? I feel this overwhelming need to drive up, buy you lunch, and listen to all your wisdom.
- Jen
We've got both library functions and academic support functions. (Incidentally: having seen an org where the library was subsumed into "learning resources" and an org where these were subsumed into the library, the latter works way better. At least from this librarian's pov...) So our groups are now a) Access - includes circulation and library IT; b) Content - acquisitions, cataloguing,...
more...
- Deborah Fitchett
thanks for the responses, everyone!
- holly #ravingfangirl
Ours works best when we don't have a lot of administration bullshit going on. That can be draining. But the key to it is involving everyone in both the decision-making and the work. Everyone needs to read and understand the budget. Everyone needs to participate in organizational change. People need to own it and be willing to step up. The good thing is that it gives everyone leadership...
more...
- barbara fister
Oh, and yes, it is a time commitment. But we get stuff done. Thinking back, it's no more of a time commitment than when we had a traditional structure with a director. It's not as if every decision has to be negotiated with the whole group. We have individual / small group / larger group / all staff issues. Very few are all staff.
- barbara fister
Deborah, yours is a fascinating mix. Especially when it's functions not subject areas. Hmmm. Oh, and Kathy - sorry for moving you to Luther ;)
- barbara fister
My last job had a great organizational structure. There were 6 librarians who all reported directly to the director, and non-librarian staff/student workers reported to the librarians. Two librarians in research services, one research services/access services, one collection management, one systems/metadata, and one archivist. It wasn't hierarchical and we all worked together very well. Small staff FTW!
- Laura Krier
We do that, but without a director. And without reporting. It's unusual, but works.
- barbara fister
Barbara, does your chair step down from their regular responsibilities while they are serving as chair? Or is it a percentage that he.she gets relieved to take on chair duties?
- Jen
What is the thing at your job that you are best at and proudest of?
Betsy #TeamMonique, Laura Norvig, maʀtha and 5 other people liked this
I'm usually fearless about trying new things; technology, services, programs, etc. The worst that can happen is failure, but there is always a lesson in that too.
- Running Slow
I guess... doing stuff that's a bit different. And acting on equal terms with academics.
- Pete #TeamMonique
The varied ways my students are using things I taught them to change the world and the profession for the better.
- RepoRat
I am exceptionally good at talking to--or rather listening to--patrons with mental health problems. Your delusional, your anxious, your paranoid--bring them to me, give me some time, and we won't have to call the cops.
- laura x
Helping a wide array of people learn a wide array of things.
- Marianne
Running classes that are more spontaneous and conversational rather than overly-scripted.
- Steele Lawman
Getting things done.
- SteVe C
I am really good at translating concepts into, and out of, the language of science/technology/computers. So I love to do research consultations about, like, the polar equations of Gothic cathedral windows, or analog methods of systematically capturing human movement, when people are like, "You are the first person who understands what I'm talking about, and does not think I am crazy."
- Meg V. Meg
I'm really good at being a liaison from my library to departments and groups on campus where no conversations are happening at all (but should be), especially making that essential first attempt at outreach.
- Lily
I'm really good at getting the babies to laugh
- Jason - The Opaque
from Android
That I am respected and my projects and ideas are given the green light more often than not.
- LibrarianOnTheLoose
Being a change agent and helping staff push the envelope on service to children.
- Marge LW
Giving people confidence.
- Andy
Reference. Not just finding stuff, but connecting with patrons on an individual basis.
- maʀtha
Conceptualizing new spaces, managing projects, and wearing heels.
- Kathy
I like our anarchist organizational style. I'm good at anarchy and mutual aid.
- barbara fister
I...am really not sure. I'm good at lots of things, but best at? I have no idea. I'll have to think about this.
- Catherine Pellegrino
Figuring out doable solutions to problems and talking people into mascot costumes.
- Heather
Connecting and working with people who don't seem to know all of the resources available to them and making them comfortable in using them.
- Derrick
product and process design for transportation vertical :)-
- Peter Dawson
Been informed about what the rest of the library world is doing and bringing in new stuff which succeeds more often than not. I am particularly proud of the chat reference service, I know other libraries has had it for a decade but still proud of managing to get it adopted widely here and the compliments it brings in daily.
- aarontay
Containing the damage from intra-staff blood feuds.
- Mark Kille
I try really hard to support my colleagues, especially newer folks, and I think/hope they find it beneficial. I'm a good project manager, too.
- Rachel Walden
I put together meaningful worship services and preach good sermons (usually).
- Friar Ticket to Ride
Hard to say. I *am* pretty awesome.
- Chris Z.
translating between arcane library jargon and human patron language (i.e., LCSH to "tags")
- $tephanie•Cog$ciLibrarian
organizing internal documentation and working with vendors. They drive everyone else crazy, but I've come to find a certain amount of zen with them all (random hair-tearing events aside).
- MontglaneChess
Being a partner with staff to provide efficient and effective solutions, and accomplish goals. Other than that... knowing how to install an operating system onto any kind of computer?
- Julian
Pushing information to faculty who had no idea that the information existed, or that anyone cared that it existed.
- Larry Schwartz
Building relationships with faculty; seeing across library silos to where we can make improvements in services or communications
- RudĩϐЯaЯïan
Designing assessments that prepare students for the real world AND teach them how to think critically and express themselves in academic discourse AND have very clear expectations AND are easy to submit and to mark.
- Kathryn is Blake in Hindi
Wow. I want to do all of this ^^^^
- maʀtha
Question about eresource authentication at your library. Is it true at your workplace, all you need to do is to login to the campus wifi and you straight away have access to say sciencedirect.com without using say ezproxy? And for off campus you either use ezproxy or vpn? Getting lots of comments in survey that they want something like this.
Typically along the lines of "the university i was exchange at...." or "I have affiliation with another university library..." etc..
- aarontay
I believe that we require ezproxy login for wireless access, on- or off-campus (though I don't think that's a technological constraint, just how we've chosen to handle it, because guests can access our wifi). And actually, now that we have single sign-on, if someone off-campus is logged into their email, then usually they'll be authenticated for library stuff. If they're not, then they can ezproxy.
- Meg V. Meg
Just to confirm about your single sign on. Say I sign on to my campus email offcampus say via exchange web, then somehow it means I can access sciencedirect.com without the proxy?
- aarontay
On campus, you're authenticated. Off campus, ezproxy.
- lris
What Iris said. (And what DJF and ellbeecee say below, too)
- Jenica
What Iris said.
- Catherine Pellegrino
What Iris said. We provide guest access to anybody who comes into the library, since our licences allow anybody physically on campus to use the material.
- DJF
What Iris said.
- maʀtha
what Iris said. The exception to the off-campus is if you're connected through the vpn, which gives you an on campus IP address. Quite honestly, that's more trouble than it's worth for library stuff when ezproxy works well.
- ellbeecee
Re: single sign-on, you still have to start from a library or university...uh...portal/interface(?) but then you don't have to login to ezproxy (if you're logged into your email or CMS). Like, you can't go to sciencedirect.com and have it know who you are, but you don't have to type in the same login info twice, if you've already logged in otherwise (in the same browser, obv) and navigate to ScienceDirect from a library/university page.
- Meg V. Meg
Thanks Megs. It's the go direct to Sciencedirect.com that is borthering people. within a browser sessions, we dont have to login twice.
- aarontay
As I understand it, it's a matter of the vendor having both your campus IP range and your proxy server IP range. If they have both, you can go direct on campus and get in, if they only have your proxy IPs everyone has to go through the proxied links, on or off campus. Is that what you mean?
- Rebecca Hedreen
Yeah, we a) tell vendors the IP range to enable, which means anyone on campus gets direct access without signing in; and b) enable the databases through ezproxy, which means that anyone authenticating through ezproxy looks to the database as if they're in the enabled IP range. (We do authentication to ezproxy by LDAP and/or something to do with Voyager which I'm still getting my head around.)
- Deborah Fitchett
Yep, we also have auto-authentication to both our uni and our guest wifi.
- kaijsa
Yes, wifi provides unproxied access for us. Vendors have the IP addresses.
- JffKrlsn
Exactly Rebecca, we doing the later with vendors having only the proxy ip range. People have been clamouring for the campus ip range to work, the only problem is not everyone who can get that ip address are supposed to use our eresources. So a visitor may have been granted a university network account to access wifi, login to campus pcs etc but they aren't supposed to use eresources...
- aarontay
Surely your license allows for walk-in users? Most do, at least for US contracts. Your visitors would be covered with that. We don't allow ours proxy access because that means they could get in remotely, which means they're not "walk-in" users.
- Royce's favorite Anna
Yes the "Walk-in" argument, I do know that once a user actually pulled out Jstor's terms of use to show which does indeed allow walk-ins. I am not sure if there is execessive caution at work here that we don't allow, or if indeed licenses are much more strict because my country is different due to the small size of the country.
- aarontay
Our contracts in the UK usually explicitly excluded walk-ins. It's why Eduroam was so important, I think . ETA: because wifi was locked down, so getting internet while on other universities was through Eduroam.
- Jaclyn aka spamgirl
You can also create groups in Ezproxy, so that Group A gets all the resources, Group B only gets some of the resources. You can either specify a list of usernames for a given group, or have it depend on information from LDAP. (This is part of the stuff I'm currently getting my head around so we can set up alumni to have certain access.)
- Deborah Fitchett
Yeah but's that's ezproxy. Increasingly people just google, and drop into sciencedirect or whatnot. There are tricks of course to handle this, but better is just authenticate based on campus ip. Jaclyn, does it mean for you, users on campus need to use a proxy? Sidenote for eduroam we support it too here.
- aarontay
One tidbit from the Ithaka faculty survey for 2012 - 90 percent of faculty search for content on the open web when they discover an article that isn't full text in library databases, while 80 percent turn to ILL. Last night I was helping a student and was amazed that we found every JSTOR article she was looking for posted to some .edu site (not by the author). Libraries are the thumb publishers are jamming in the dike while it's crumbling.
- barbara fister
you totally need to use that line in something for IHE or ElJay, Barbara.
- RepoRat
jhu is getting ready to offer "eduroam" so visiting scholars can log in to the wifi with their own institution's authentication... i'm a bit fuzzy on this but I think they'll still be coming from JHU's IP range, so they'll have access to our licenses (and not their home institution's)
- Christina Pikas
Christina hmm I have to check with our Computer Centre about the ip range eduroam grants, if true that's yet another issue to consider if we grant access via campus ip range.
- aarontay
The number of people that use our bookmarklet that adds the proxy is about 1/3 as much as Summon the default search box. That's a stunning figure if you realise 1) bookmarklets are hardly main-stream 2) We teach it a lot but it's pretty well hidden on our site so you can't just stumble upon it, so there's a lot of word of mouth which I can see based on scans on twitter etc 3) This...
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- aarontay
How do you capture/measure usage of the bookmarket?
- Deborah Fitchett
Essentially you make the bookmarklet pull the script from a file on your server. Then you can see how often it is used. You can get fancy and add google analytics etc. A side benefit is that you can change the script without making people bookmark it again say if you changed the proxy URL to include https or what not. I blogged about it http://musingsaboutlibrariansh...
- aarontay
Ah, neat, thanks!
- Deborah Fitchett
Looking in on the ALA Think Tanked group on Facebook makes me understand what LSW outsiders must think on taking a peek in here.
ellbeecee, maʀtha and John Dupuis liked this
Hmm. I disagree. I see LSW as being much more open to new people and not at all exclusive.
- Running Slow
^^ that. And not "hand picked" but instead self-selected and inclusive. Also, more swearing. Which is +1.
- Louise "Weezy" Alcorn
I don't know that I saw it as exclusive, exactly? Just kinda in-jokey and ripping John Berry a new one just because he's John Berry, not because he'd actually said anything bad.
- Steele Lawman
I don't see the ALATT as being selective, but maybe it is just me.
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
Good thing we don't have any in-jokes. [Justkiddin] Maybe we could start a thread that explains some of the jokes?
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
There's three thousand people in the Think Tank, so "selective" or "exclusive" seems odd. Though, just like here, it does seem like there are 20 people who do most of the commenting.
- Steele Lawman
Joe, they aren't IN jokes if you EXPLAIN them for Cod's sake.
- Steele Lawman
WHAT IS IT WITH THE COD COD COD!
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
Life's not all hookers and blow, joe.
- Steele Lawman
My impression has always been the only people in it are the original folks who got it organized and those they want to join in, in terms of anything that comes out of it. And I say this with no bitterness or jealousy. It's just the way it's been presented when any of those 20 get together. I just don't see the LSW that way. The conversations are more....um...flavorful here.
- Running Slow
And now I'll go back to my usual lurking in the corners. ;)
- Running Slow
TT has a small cadre of folks who do their best to defuse the occasional flare up (plus FB lets people add other people to the group) :: LSW lets the flamewars burn, the fires go out, and then the regulars pick back up with our inanity (plus you have to make a self-selection step to get in)
- awd
LSW seems slightly more international? The "ALA" in the facebook group name perhaps the reason for that, though of course anyone can join either.
- aarontay
Just forwarded to me by our director: Announcing a New (and Free) Database of Open Access Scholarship - http://ala.informz.net/Informz...
Laura Norvig, Pete #TeamMonique, RudĩϐЯaЯïan and 2 other people liked this
"Bepress Digital Commons invites you to explore a new database of open access scholarship (600,000+ articles) [...] This new resource for researchers includes scholarship from hundreds of universities and colleges, including peer-reviewed journal articles, book chapters, dissertations, working papers, conference proceedings, and other original scholarly work."
- Catherine Pellegrino
from Bookmarklet
BePress annoys me kind of a lot, but there's no denying they know their marketing.
- RepoRat
Is this Old News? I'm trying to figure out where exactly all this stuff is coming from. BePress is/makes repository software, right? So is it a compilation of all the OA stuff in BePress-powered repositories?
- Catherine Pellegrino
prolly, yeah. which, why haven't they had this all along?
- RepoRat
Okay, it would have been helpful if they'd, you know, said that in their vague ooh-shiny marketing copy.
- Catherine Pellegrino
interesting/odd/I'm confused
- lris
My director's going to see if she can touch base with them at Midwinter, to get a clearer answer to "where is all this coming from, anyway?" and "can it be set up as a target in SFX?"
- Catherine Pellegrino
Hmm, might need to add those to my list of questions to ask too... I got that email as well
- Hedgehog
They do a variety of things including IR, journal platform, and space for special collections/archive-type stuff. But "open access scholarship" could mean many different things. (They do have prodigious marketing. They also aren't cheap. But lots cheaper than hiring staff to build your own.)
- barbara fister
I'm just thinking, if we can somehow get our link resolver to know about this, then that will save our users one annoying Google Scholar work-around to get at this content, which: WIN.
- Catherine Pellegrino
I am doubtful the number of people who will go to this site to search. Realistically speaking, this should (is?) already found in Google Scholar and should be indexed in Summon etc. Trying a sample finds yes! it is ...
- aarontay
Oh yeah, there's no way I'm sending anyone here to actually search for articles, any more than I would send someone to DOAJ to search. (Though my colleagues include it on our list of databases, which...never mind.) I'm thinking more about the user who discovers an article by searching in one of our licensed databases, and the article happens to be included here...how does the user connect with that article? Hopefully via our link resolver.
- Catherine Pellegrino
I can actually see there are two entries/packages for Digital Commons in the serialssolutions knowledgebase. All should be open access?I am also requesting for it to be turned on too to try.
- aarontay
My colleague asked this question of this endeavour, that I thought was interesting. There are publisher license arrangements that allow for deposit in an institutional repository... but not a subject one. Does this reframing of existing content violate those agreements?
- copystar
Very interesting thought. But the publishers will have to go after BePress, because the authors did deposit the papers into institutional repositories. It's BePress that's repurposing the work. But then, the BePress IR software doesn't provide authors with an option to indicate restrictions on redistribution when they are depositing content, which is a defect in their system.
- DJF
The other optic that more annoys me than disturbs me, is that it looks like libraries put all the labour associated with building their small local institutional repository and then BePress re-purposes all the articles into something larger, flashier and all about BePress. I know that OA means being able to re-purpose work and I'm cool with that. Still, it just seems that libraries are *paying* in $$$ and labour for the privilege of populating BePress's new OA IR, and that seems like we are chumps, somehow.
- copystar
It'd be really hard to argue with a straight face that BePress has a DR. The stuff in there is gonna be all over the disciplines.
- RepoRat
Not sure about the legal thing, but I am not sure how much BePress gains from this really. It's an aggregator that they probably won't/can't charge for, and pretty much everyone won't use anyway.
- aarontay
It's pretty common for metadata from IRs to be aggregated into eg nationwide search place thingies (it's afternoon, my brain's fried; but like nzresearch.org.nz and oaister and stuff) which just link back to the original IR for the full-text. If that's all BePress is doing, not copying the full text, then I wouldn't think the publishers could complain. (If they were copying the full text then o.O because copyright, but it doesn't look like they are.)
- Deborah Fitchett
well, "copying fulltext" is moot when they have all the fulltext in a big bag on their server and this is just reorganizing it.
- DJF
they seem to be matching full-text though... that counts as copying (well at least using)? Actually if what they are doing is illegal, than Google scholar would be the same?
- aarontay
With second thoughts, I realize that I'm just sore that BePress costs us so much $$$. If this was an open source IR, I'd have no problem with this reframing.
- copystar
Apparently they *will* index material in other IR platforms as well (there was a thread on some repository list) but you have to meet a list of requirements that would not be easy for most other platforms.
- Sarah
what requirements are those?
- RepoRat
I'd have to figure out which listserv, but one was that the metadata records be clearly marked whether or not they were open or restricted, which, of course, DSpace doesn't do. Don't know about EPrints. We have way too many restricted items in IDEALS these days (digitized theses and dissertations) to try to figure that out.
- Sarah
*cusses DSpace* *cusses OAI-PMH* *cusses generally* It should be find-out-able even in DSpace with a SQL query to the DB ("which items in the DB contain content bitstreams that don't have Anonymous as an access group?"), but exposing that is the problem. Does BePress suggest how? Because, I mean, creating a custom metadata field and populating it with SQL would be doable.
- RepoRat
Let me see if I can dig the email out - though I delete a lot of them. But yes, it's annoying. And OAI-PMH is, I would guess, a big part of the issue. There was a *FANTASTIC* talk by Herbert Van de Sompel at IDCC this year basically reflecting back on the progression from PMH to ResourceSync. Very interesting.
- Sarah
Okay - here are the requirements. And they are way more onerous than just whether it's open or not - also needs to have download counts (hahahahahahaha)
- Sarah
The Digital Commons Network is dedicated to open access. For this reason, every record must have a full text that is completely free of restriction. We believe in associating all records with the branding of the institution that made them available. We would ask for the approved logo of every participating institution. In each Commons of the Digital Commons Network, we feature several...
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- Sarah
That's from a Jan 10 email to SPARC-OA Forum from Kenneth Gleason.
- Sarah
wtf is a "reciprocal path to the scholarship of others"?!
- RepoRat
I think basically they want you to put a link to the digital commons network in your metadata record.
- Sarah
uh......... NO. Zero relevance to the item in the repo.
- RepoRat
As for download counts, though, I'm actually kind of glad that BePress is forcing that issue. It's BEYOND time.
- RepoRat
yes but they are so unreliable - particularly if you are bringing together download counts from different platforms together. But I agree that this could force the issue other places.
- Sarah
I'm kind of over their unreliability. The people demand numbers, give 'em numbers, and an explanation of how the numbers were arrived at.
- RepoRat
We're trying to look at the code for integrating google analytics into the display - work that was done in Scotland - see http://goo.gl/fCZyL - will also help with standardizing stats with many other library services.
- Sarah
*taking notes*
- aarontay
This just came back around our library's email chain. Has anyone gotten an answer about whether/how it can be set up as a target in link resolvers? I was stupid and forgot to stop by their booth at ACRL.
- Catherine Pellegrino
Oh, wait, our serials librarian says that everything in here (at least, all the peer-reviewed journal articles) is or should be already in DOAJ, and DOAJ is in our link resolver, so we don't need to worry about including this as well. Is she right? Pre/post-prints from toll-access journals wouldn't be in DOAJ, would they?
- Catherine Pellegrino
They may not be in DOAJ, but they might be in other places. Since BePress isn't in SFX, I can't run an overlap report there to find out.
- Kirsten
The problem with DOAJ is not everything in DOAJ is openly available
- awd
awd: If it isn't openly available, it doesn't belong in DOAJ, since you can't be OA without being, well, openly accessible. (Not saying it doesn't happen; saying it should be reported to DOAJ.)
- Walt Crawford
PSA: Summon is down for the whole wide world.
Hmm, we're up. I wonder if that means we're the exception or the rolling wave of down just hasn't hit us yet....
- Hedgehog
We're OK, too. Wonder if I just jinxed it for us now.
- Stephen le Francoeur
Of course as soon as I posted this, it appears to be back - we were without access for about 45 mins.
- Galadriel C.
Oh yay....
- lris
Groovy
- maʀtha
It was up and down, it seems those libraries using the API were fine though. And this happened when I was preparing to give a presentation at a Summon user group meeting today!
- aarontay
Library to discontinue e-reserves by end of spring semester | The Daily Orange - http://dailyorange.com/2013...
Sir Shuping is just sir liked this
cruising to be the next GSU or York?
- RepoRat
This brings up a question, is Syracuse paying protection money to CCC to "cover" their uses?
- awd
ooh, good question
- RepoRat
whoa
- jambina
hmph
- $tephanie•Cog$ciLibrarian
Very very interesting...."The number of e-reserves requests has decreased by more than half during the past four years, which Dermody said is the reason for the discontinuation" - Is that generally true?
- aarontay
It sounds like it's not the number of PDF documents hosted on Blackboard for students to download and read that is going down, just the number of requests for the library to assist in that practice.
- Steele Lawman
Looking at 2,500 qualitative comments about library from 6k+ overall responses. Quite surprised at how many comments on problems that no longer exist months if not years ago, conclusion : many users don't realise things have changed even when issues are fixed and this despite saying they use the library website "Weekly" or "monthly".
Betsy #TeamMonique liked this
Finished. A little depressed at the negative remarks, on the plus side our <3 year old chat reference (last major survey was 2009) is getting crazy amount of praise. Well with a initial response time of 10s on average, and almost 0% drop rate, they better be impressed at how fast their queries are answered.
- aarontay
impressed you had so many responses and not surprised at the comments about things that have long been fixed. we get that a lot, too.
- Christina Pikas
I guess those results show that first/negative impressions really stick with people and they either don't notice when things are fixed, or write off that particular page/service/whatever as "unusable" and don't come back to see if it has changed or how.
- Steele Lawman
Survey responses at a previous job included the suggestion that the library get a webpage. We'd had a webpage for at least 7 years at that point.
- Rebecca Hedreen
On the plus side you can post a followup from the survey saying "We've heard your feedback and have now fixed all the following problems!" :-P
- Deborah Fitchett
Response rate was maybe 12-13% which is not bad I guess. The last major libqual+ was way back in 2009, so this is like a report card for the work done in last 4 years. Still analysing but it seems to me, users (at least faculty and some grads) are now a lot more aware of what is available in other academic libraries and are comparing...
- aarontay
Guess everyone planning to read the Ithaka Survey? For now just read http://lj.libraryjournal.com/2013...
Roger Schonfeld liked this
"The share of respondents who rated the library’s role as a repository or preserver of information as very important fell by about ten percentage points since the 2009 survey, to slightly less than two thirds. " - This one is surprising to me. Shouldn't this be increasing if not unchanged?
- aarontay
Maybe because the economy is better, people are less concerned with preservation?
- Meg V. Meg
Maybe they've come to the library asking for preservation services and gotten the door slammed in their face. #notthatImbitteroranything
- RepoRat
I think the preservation issue may be more related to reliance on info that isn't associated with the Library in their mind. There are a lot of other changes in academic libraries in the last three years besides discovery systems so yes - that's definitely speculative! BTW, we were one of the sites that did the local survey this year ... I'm now combing through for where our results converge/diverge with national. Some interesting food for thought....
- Lisa Hinchliffe
The share of respondents rating library roles as very important declined from 2009 to 2012 for all the roles we tracked, with the sole exception of the "gateway" (discovery) role. This broad overall decline may have less to do with each of those roles individually as broader perception about the changing role of the library.
- Roger Schonfeld
Thanks, Roger!
- RepoRat
Elizabeth Brown, lris, Betsy #TeamMonique and 3 other people liked this
Oh and I am supposed to do a class on Google scholar profiles and Google scholar metrics on top of the usual Scopus/Wos for citation analysis at the end of this month. Me thinks, I am going to get lots of questions.... done all the reading but...going to be interesting ....
- aarontay
i think i might put a copy of this in my annual review packet this year. i wonder if anyone uses this to supplement their web of science citations, for tenure? seems like goog picks up more than wos does because it's not concerned about what's indexed.
- Marie
I seem to have two - ?? - http://scholar.google.com.sg/citatio... and http://scholar.google.com/citatio...
- barbara fister
Barbara huh? Did you set up 2? Both are verified with institution emails??
- aarontay
No "verified" email since I'm not institutionalized, but: http://scholar.google.com/citatio...
- Walt Crawford
aaaaaaagh, now I'm spending the entire dang afternoon reading stuff that's cited me recently.
- RepoRat
It should be me. http://scholar.google.com/citatio...
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
For comparison, here's my profile in Microsoft Academic, which I see needs some cleanup, as the profile includes articles by others. http://academic.research.microsoft.com/Author...
- Stephen le Francoeur
i've really enjoyed perusing all your profiles. any other peeps want to share theirs?
- Marie
we have some influential peeps all up in here.
- RepoRat
I think this is mine? http://scholar.google.com/citatio...
- Catherine Pellegrino
http://scholar.google.com/citatio... My sparkline looks not unlike Dorothea's until you realize that hers goes up to 40-something on the Y-axis and mine goes to...two. :D Also I just now saw the completely poker-faced abstract of "Library Survey Survey" in LISTA. lulz. *disappears inside his own navel*
- Steele Lawman
http://scholar.google.com/citatio... Added my book chapter :-D Must get other stuff up there...
- Hedgehog
I got really lucky with my undergraduate research projects in Chemistry. :) Otherwise my citation counts would be fairly low.
- Elizabeth Brown
Wow, y'all are super impressive. Here's my less illustrious profile http://scholar.google.com/citatio...
- LibrarianOnTheLoose
Anyone using Innovative's Sierra - got any good helper documents for patrons? I am not fond of the few III provides. I will happily give you all due credit ('original handout from Acme PL' or whatever) if you'd allow me to borrow/edit them for our use? Thanks in advance.
bumping in hope...
- Louise "Weezy" Alcorn
Sierra is really new. I'd be surprised if there are many customers in LSW, much less ones with good documentation.
- Royce's favorite Anna
We're moving from Horizon, and we've got a lot of folks for whom the change is...disconcerting. Thanks anyways, folks! When/if I get our own docs out there, I'll try to remember to share, for anyone coming up behind us :)
- Louise "Weezy" Alcorn
We're using Sierra but all of the changes are in the back end, no change for patrons. Or did they sneak something in there when we weren't looking?
- Marie
We been supposed to move to Sierra for a while. This time I am told *definitely* will by 1st half of 2013.. But as you said, there is no change for patrons (though I've read you could do stuff if you wanted to due to apis and whatnot), so I not worrying about it too much.
- aarontay
i have gotten emails from Google Scholar about my profile, yes.
- ~Courtney F
So it tells you the profile is automatically updated with new papers?
- aarontay
I can't find the setting, but I think you have to tell it to email you.
- Meg V. Meg
yes. but I don't remember how I set it up.
- $tephanie•Cog$ciLibrarian
I don't get emails - so I think you do have to set that up.
- Sarah
Yup, you get an alert when one of your papers is cited. It's under "list my alerts" on your My Citations page
- Megan loves summer
Yep -- got one today!
- Jason P
I am talking about the option where it offers to automatically add papers it thinks are yours..
- aarontay
Under "Actions" pulldown select "profile updates". You have 2 choices. " Automatically update the list of articles in my profile. (recommended) " vs "Don't automatically update my profile. Send me email to review and confirm updates." I wonder in the first option, it automatically adds articles but does it email you at the same time?
- aarontay
Hmm, so that option, you just trust google adds the correct papers and you won't even be emailed and notified it did that? Sounds risky, you may end up claiming stuff that isnt your without noticing...
- aarontay
I have the second option set up. Naturally, it's got duplicate citations for the same article(s).
- $tephanie•Cog$ciLibrarian
You can manually merge them later.
- aarontay
Does anyone have good language for letting a speaker know you can't provide travel support or honoraria, due to ALA's librarian policies?
Heather Piwowar liked this
Here's what I said with a recent call for panelists " Due to ALA requirements, we are unfortunately unable to provide honoria, registration, or travel funding for this presentation. We appreciate that this may be a non-negotiable factor for you. "
- Hedgehog
Diplomatic Hedgehog is diplomatic.
- Catherine Pellegrino
How about the opposite? Getting invites to speak at conferences overseas but there is no mention about funding?
- aarontay
Aaron how about: "I am honored that you have asked me to speak at your conference. So that I may plan, will there be any funding made available to me - honoraria, travel, lodging?" If they tell you bupkus, you can then say "I so want to present for you, but I'm afraid the cost is prohibitive at this time. I'm sorry for the inconvenience, and hope you will keep me in mind for the future." Or somethign like that?
- Louise "Weezy" Alcorn
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