" intolerance, oppression of women, bigotry...etc etc" commented by way of Chloé elsewhere on the intterwebz - sofarsoShawn <right here>

I don't believe there's ever been a war that wasn't started by a government or a political leader of some sort. Their reasons for arousing the masses into violent fervor vary with changing cultural winds. Religion has been a popular war cry because most people are religious. Political leaders co-opt religious speech and ideas to gain support. - Kevin L

War is politics. Modern war is more about greed and coveting resources, land, political maneuvering, just look at how many nations the US has invaded since WWII (religious reasons?). Intolerance and bigotry aren't the exclusive domain of the religions. It's standard atheist operating procedure to point the finger solely at religion, but the facts don't add up - it trivializes the more basic causes. - Mo Kargas

Democracy is a region... So was communism... Spread and defended with the same passion and hatered as any religion - Johnny from iPhone

So the definition widens to any political philosophy, and simplifies to anything people can potentially passionately disagree over. - Mo Kargas

Oi! Mo's back?!? I feel I should acquiesce just in honor, that is if I didn't know better, hey I teach our world's youth. My re-butt is as follows: ~ A knowledge of history proves otherwise. Nuff said there. Nextly, you're making the mistake of conflating religion with nationalism as samsies this mixed &with a clear misunderstanding of atheism & proper debate mechanisms. Now highlighting what I mean: just because religion is the number one cause of war it's non-sequitur, a logical fallacy (here's one of those debate thingys) to reason that religion is the cause of ALL wars. - sofarsoShawn <right here> from FFHound!

Now on to atheism...Atheism is not a belief or value system, atheism is a rejection of belief in a deity, only. So unlike religion it does not over generalize, ie straw man fallacy (another debate thingy) & point fingers at Muslims, homosexuals, or socialism, anything they regard as different as the cause of all that's wrong with the world: ex if only they believed in Helios, the one true G_D of the sun, then our nation's problems would be solved, we'd be saved & have eternal life. ~what's up next? - sofarsoShawn <right here> from FFHound!

Don't they point at religion as the cause of all that's wrong? - Johnny from iPhone

I didn't actually say religion was the cause of *all* war (as inferred from the number one cause) - in fact I said the politicization of an idea is always the cause of all wars. A knowledge of history does not prove otherwise conclusively - indeed, can you definitively prove that religion is the number one cause. Even the Crusades can be debated as being economically driven. Sure there may have been religious overtones, but casus belli? A stretch at best and one that historians consistently argue over. Furthermore, whether you think atheism is a belief or not, it is an idea. Ideas can be a way of life or not, but ideas are politicized. Politicization can lead to violent opposition. Violent opposition can lead to war. There's no mistake conflating religion with nationalism, this happens with frightening regularity throughout history. - Mo Kargas

Okay you're still mistaking or misunderstanding what's already been established. Yes it can be proven conclusively & definitely especially the crusades and even up to this president day, is it 100% science no of course not. No historical account ever is, so does that mean that all history is lie? Ridiculous, one regards historical accounts as facts to the matter, empirical evidence & proof to the point. And yes it is indeed a mistake to regard religion synonymous with nationalism, apples and oranges, G_D & country. I'd suggest reading up on the precise definitions of the two same with atheism and what it actually is not what you think it is. Even just WIkip would be instructive otherwise you're just entrenching deeper in exactitude. For further explanans see above. This is going in circles. - sofarsoShawn <right here>

If you want an example of religion synonymous with nationalism, you just have to look at Nazi Germany, this *is* well documented. You also haven't answered my point, that any idea that can be politicized can be fought over of which religion is but one cause. Inferring religion is the number one cause of war requires evidence and precedence, which we would get from recorded history, and which I'm saying you don't have. On one hand you say it's not 100% science, then in the second breath you say one regards historical accounts as facts. You're going to have to do better than merely saying "I'm right, you misunderstand" - you're going to have to explain yourself, factually.What has been established factually here? - Mo Kargas

Sorry MoKa but right now I'm got something important to do, but I'm starting to get what you're meaning to say, so will for get back to you, swear to god :) And good to see you back, if I knew all it took was some religulous one liner post I would've done it sooner. @_@ PEW PEW PEW ~ that's the sound of me blasting you with my lazers (Oi, and yes this isn't just Mo & I's thread anyone feel free to jump in) - sofarsoShawn <right here> from FFHound!

One of the first things to do is step back and define "religion" -- "The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods." Religion is a belief in a superhuman power, not *exclusive to belief in god*, just *especially* as it applies to a belief in god; however, the actual meaning is reserved for belief in/worship of a superhuman power. Spiritual belief systems -on a private, personal level- are not synonymous with religion. Religion, as is being tossed around here, is the dogma associated with the "god" aspect; Politics is the dogma associated with topic addressed in the image and title of this entry. Yes, religion is politics - no matter how we cut it. And yes, get to the core of every war, we can talk about "politics" loosely, we can talk about territory, we can talk about all of that....but it IS religion, at the core - with the *god* aspect usually directly connected. - Prosey BUTTONS!

I'm going to have to step in here & stop this dumbfounded downard spiral of BS. When hell freezes over and when in political science I have studied a divine book of religion as THE LAW, or if I moved to Iran, then there'd be some merit of truth to this. But we don't and there isn't. Insightful, nonetheless because I better understand now, yesssir, nothing gets through the bubble. Voltaire, you haven't spoken yet, so you get the last word on these matters of superstition: "Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities." - Volatire ~ Goddamn, ain't that the righteous truth (pardon my French) because there is nothing more absurd than…science fiction. The End // Fin - sofarsoShawn <right here>

CITATION! (http://ff.im/Rm93n) "Ressentiment is a reassignment of the pain that accompanies a sense of one's own inferiority/failure onto an external scapegoat. The ego creates the illusion of an enemy, a cause that can be "blamed" for one's own inferiority/failure. Thus, one was thwarted not by a failure in oneself, but rather by an external "evil." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... by way of Micah's due diligence :) - sofarsoShawn <right here>