Andrew Bleiman › Comments

It is? I'll get my giraffe gun out of storage then. - Bob O'Hara

Bob on safari hunt in Norway:- http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3120... - Graham Steel

Liking Graham's picture, - but hunting them....I?? Why ?? - Nils Reinton

"There have been a few cases of DSPS developing into non 24-hour sleep-wake syndrome, a more severe and debilitating disorder in which the individual sleeps later each day." I've known two people with that condition. - Sean McBride

I have experienced this sort of thing. I am getting bored with every variation from some arbitrary norm being called a 'disorder'. I'm not really sure what the problem is with sleeping and waking on a varying cycle is, except that some organized groups of people synchronize themselves with a mechanical timing device, and make moral judgements about those who don't conform. I know this sounds a little far out, but why did we decide that a biological system that doesn't work like a clock is 'disordered'? - Robin Barooah

Well, the rising sun is providing the order. - j1m

Also, as someone who has insomnia, I can assure you that insomnia is a disorder. But is this insomnia? - j1m

One trick that works well, even though it's rather impractical, is to move somewhere that's more in line with your body's sleep-wake cycle. - Adewale Oshineye

This is not considered insomnia, because people with this condition have untroubled sleep, and can sleep normally and happily on their preferred schedule. - ⓞnor

re: Adewale. Would moving work? Wouldn't I just adjust to sleeping late in the new time zone? - niniane

I've never tried it for more than a couple of weeks at a time so I've never found out if my body would eventually get used to alternate time zones. - Adewale Oshineye

It doesn't work. :-L - EricaJoy

@j1m - the sun doesn't care whether you follow it's 'order' - only people do. - Robin Barooah

@Robin: Every animal from flies to people has an internal circadian clock that runs independently of light. That means when you put them in dark surroundings and monitor activity, you get a regular 23-25 hour cycle (depends on the species and individual). Light affects some of the molecules involved in this cycle, so sunlight synchronizes your clock to the world. If you are missing a property that is fundamental to nearly all animals, like a circadian rhythm, you do have a disorder. - Melinda Owens

@Niniane: Your internal circadian clock sets in relation to the sun's, so moving will not help after you adjust to the time zone. DSPS (or its suckier cousin, advanced SPS) actually comes about as a result of a longer (or shorter) cycle time. If you kept someone with DSPS in a dark cave, they would have a >24-hr activity cycle. But the sun's light forces everyone's clock to have the same 24-hr cycle length; the way light acts on the system, the someone with a long period ends up with a delayed cycle. - Melinda Owens

@Robin: In the case of advanced sleep phase syndrome, at least, there are specific molecules that are mutated in flies, mice, or people who have ASPS. So these people clearly have a "disorder" in the sense that there is something identifiably wrong with them. People with severe DSPS or ASPS (so, not Niniane) also often wish that they could match the activity cycles of everyone else around them, and to the extent that their abnormal circadian distresses them, it is also a "disorder." - Melinda Owens

re: torque. Yes, I exercise. - niniane

I, too, seem to have this. And I also hate how people seem to discriminate against us just because we don't match their "normal" schedule. - Gabe

discriminate? i was a late riser for many years, and the closest i ever got to discrimination was when my grandmother would vacuum at the absurdly early hour of 11 am. - j1m

I lost my internet connection for a week recently, and my sleeping patterns became much more conventional during that time. You might want to try cutting down your computer use when you're not at work. Despite what people on the internet might tell you, there's a lot going on during the day that you miss out on if you become nocturnal. - m13a

@paul: I've found that too. I think it's because when the sun comes up, the reality that you'll have to go through the day without any sleep is driven home, and you realize how drained you are. - m13a

Non-24-hour circadian rhythm disorder is far more serious and disruptive than a regular pattern of rising either very early or very late. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... By the way, I am continually bowled over by just how good Wikipedia can sometimes be. - Sean McBride

@Melinda, @Sean - thanks for adding this information - I'm not arguing that there is no mechanism behind this. It's fundamental to genetics that there will be variation. My point is that inflexibility in social constructs is part of what makes this such a problem: http://awurl.com/P9yfDX7E5 I think that's what Gabe means when he talks about discrimination. The individual displays a neutral variation, which is made maladaptive by business rules designed to suit the 'normal' population. - Robin Barooah

I'm pretty sure it's maladaptive in general. Waking up with the sun is preferred because the sun is very bright and illuminates the world, which makes it easier to see without costly and incomplete artificial illumination. Not to mention the benefits of being awake when most other people are so you can interact with them (we are, after all, social animals), "business rules" or no. I'm not saying we can't have happy night-owl lives, but I think it's totally reasonable to call it a disorder. - ⓞnor

ok - I concede that it's reasonable to define this as a 'disorder'. I think what I'm trying to say that that may not be the most helpful way of thinking about it for someone who is trying to construct a happy life given their personal needs. - Robin Barooah

I hear that up to 10% of the population has Left-Handed Disorder, and I think as a society we've given up on trying to cure it in people. Maybe we can stop trying to cure people with DSPS, too. - Gabe

By the time you're 90 you'll have a whole bunch of disorders, and if you look at what your elders do, yeah, they do the same things you might hope to do about a sleep disorder: adjust their lifestyle, ask others to leave room for their lifestyle (that's what the ADA is), and take any useful medical treatment they can get. - j1m

This is only supposed to affect 3 out of 2000 adults, yet many people on this thread think they have it. Perhaps we are all under the impression that we have this, when in reality we have some benign tendency toward staying up which is not a disorder. - niniane

Due to a computer, the right hand there are many more issues - dickym from Alert Thingy

niniane: It could be that those with DSPS are more likely to be friendfeeders, or possibly friendfeeders are more likely to have DSPS. - Gabe

well you can check out my new site when you are restless circa 1am www.zooborns.com - Andrew Bleiman

You're really shilling too hard, Andrew. - Melinda Owens