The actions of one group don't necessarily excuse the similar actions of another group.
- Akiva Moskovitz
"Christianity learned toleration only recently. Judaism centuries ago. Islam has not yet had this experience"-. Lord Sacks. Because we are a secular and tolerant society Mr. Hassan was given the opportunity to rise to the rank of Major in our armed forces. This same opportunity would not exist in an Islamic country.
- Eric Logan
Akiva: in no way did I mean to excuse the actions of anyone. The point Anthony was making, as I read it, was that Muslim proselytizing should have been a red flag, whereas other (i.e. Christian) proselytizing would not. My point is that both have a recent history of violence attached.
- Bren, Photophobe
from iPhone
Eric: you mean an Islamic country like Iraq where, under Sadam, one of the top government/military officials was Christian?
- Bren, Photophobe
from iPhone
I should clarify that the point was not Anthony's, but that he was pointing out the inherent bigotry in Ms. Vargas's statement.
- Bren, Photophobe
from iPhone
No I don't mean like Iraq as it was a secular government, Bren. I mean like an Islamic government that operates under sharia law.
- Eric Logan
Eric: is your point that the US should become more like a country that operates under sharia, or that tolerance has a price?
- Cole Jolley
Bren, I'm just tired of the implication that we're not allowed to suggest that Islam could possibly be behind the motives of someone's bad actions without the PC hand-patting. Maybe it's just me but I get nervous whenever I hear someone say, 'Allahu akbar,' and I guess that's an unintended side effect of Islamic terrorism. I guess the next time a Jew goes into some building and starts shooting people while screaming, 'Sholem aleichem,' it'll all seem more equalized to me.
- Akiva Moskovitz
I think at anytime anyone of us could raise a red flag
- VAL D.
I get your point, Akiva. Unfortunately, I think that the Muslim terrorists have tainted the view of all Muslims. Since Judaism doesn't really have a tradition of evangelism, the sort of religio-cultural terrorism practiced by Muslims and Christians is unlikely in the extreme to be practiced by Jews. I wonder, though, if Palestinians feel similarly uncomfortable when they see a Jew driving a bulldozer?
- Bren, Photophobe
from iPhone
Probably not, Bren, because Israeli citizens don't have a history of randomly attacking Arab citizens.
- Akiva Moskovitz
And I repeat, for the nth time: the actions of Group A do not excuse similar actions by Group B.
- Akiva Moskovitz
While that's true, Akiva, I would suggest your original statement would be better stated as "It's a shame that proselytizing sometimes involves guns and bombs." Because it is, regardless of religion (or lack thereof).
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
It was a response to this statement, Akiva: "I guess the next time a Jew goes into some building and starts shooting people while screaming, 'Sholem aleichem,' it'll all seem more equalized to me." Or was the screaming the point?
- Eivind
But, Tina, in this case, we're talking about a particular incident.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Tolerance certainly has its price and we should remain vigilant about intolerance wherever it exists. Failing to recognize and confront intolerance only emboldens fundamentalism.
- Eric Logan
I second Tina, there. Proselytizing, insofar as it includes violence, is wrong. It is no more or less wrong when it is a Muslim doing the proselytizing.
- Bren, Photophobe
from iPhone
I would wager, however, that if they were talking about Christian proselytizing being red-flag-worthy, this post wouldn't exist.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Also, does that mean that the actions of Palestinian terrorists justify the displacement, killing, internment in refugee camps, etc. of innocent Palestinians at the hands of the Israeli military? In that case do the actions of one group excuse the actions of another?
- Bren, Photophobe
from iPhone
I think the original point was that a Christian proselytizing would never be construed as a red flag.
- Bren, Photophobe
from iPhone
I love how the words 'innocent' and 'Palestinian' go together like peanut butter & jelly. It's so rare to hear anyone mention 'Palestinians' without having to preface the sympathy-manipulating 'innocent' first. At any case, Bren, where are you getting all of this? I'm wondering if you have a Firefox plug-in going that generates all kinds of subtext for you when you read what I've been typing. I don't think I've even used the word 'Palestinian' in this post until now.
- Akiva Moskovitz
And your very first comment singled out Muslim proselytizing in a way that indicated you meant Muslim proselytizing *generally*
- Bren, Photophobe
from iPhone
My original point was that it's sad that extremists cause people to even consider Islamic proselytization to be worthy of a red flag as opposed to other religions. You guys took that and ran in all sorts of interesting directions.
- Akiva Moskovitz
And my first comment singled out the phrase 'Muslim proselytizing' because it's the same phrase that Anthony used.
- Akiva Moskovitz
No, Akiva, but I did. I was simply analogizing two situations. Also, I acknowledged quite clearly that there are both innocent and guilty Palestinians. I actually believe we should a have sympathy for innocent people, of any stripe, who are unfairly hurt by the actions of others. But I'm pretty sure I got an answer to my question about whether you believe there are innocent Palestinians.
- Bren, Photophobe
from iPhone
I think your first comment did not read the way you intended it to.
- Bren, Photophobe
from iPhone
You're making assumptions again. I actually am very sympathetic toward the plight of the Gazans. Unlike what you're trying to imply, I don't automatically make a judgment on someone simply because of their geography. I don't think anyone in Gaza is automatically innocent or guilty simply based on the fact that they live in Gaza.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Perhaps I am misreading you, Akiva. I shall leave that conversation as it is. Edit: my apologies for not grasping your point, and misrepresenting your intention.
- Bren, Photophobe
from iPhone
“John S. Reed, who helped engineer the merger that created Citigroup Inc., apologized for his role in building a company that has taken $45 billion in direct U.S. aid and said banks that big should be divided into separate parts.”
- Anthony Citrano
from Bookmarklet
Reed said, “I would compartmentalize the industry for the same reason you compartmentalize ships... If you have a leak, the leak doesn’t spread and sink the whole vessel. So generally speaking you’d have consumer banking separate from trading bonds and equity.”
- Anthony Citrano
“Airing the teen tryst, which is being teased in an ad as a ‘3SOME,’ is ‘reckless and irresponsible,’ said PTC president Tim Winter in a statement Wednesday. The threesome involves three main characters in the show but they are not identified in the promos.” [PTC: for now, my Tivo thanks you. Later, I'll thank you.]
- Anthony Citrano
from Bookmarklet
To the PTC: If you don't like it, change the channel. If you, as a parent, don't like your kids watching it, CHANGE THE FUCKING CHANNEL FOR THEM!!! It can't be that hard, can it? Do your parenting. Don't expect the rest of us to do it for you!
- Helen Sventitsky
Maybe we'll be voting for triangle marriage rights in a decade or so.
- Gus
We're still in the middle of season 2. If by some chance it turns out to involve Chuck and Nate, though, I suspect my wife will demand that we skip to season 3 *immediately*.
- Roger Benningfield
About to face downtown LA traffic to get to a photography seminar w/ Joe McNally, Better be worth it, Joe. ;)
"An Italian judge found 23 Americans and two Italians guilty Wednesday in the kidnapping of an Egyptian terror suspect, delivering the first legal convictions anywhere in the world against people involved in the CIA's extraordinary renditions program."
- Anthony Citrano
from Bookmarklet
“An outspoken Kiwi politician has proposed a new solution to the country's child abuse problem - pay the ‘appalling underclass’ not to breed.”
- Anthony Citrano
from Bookmarklet
Hey, I'll take 10 grand for a free vasectomy. Show me where to sign up. :D
- Roger Benningfield
“Goncalves had spent the night at a truck stop talking with friends over drinks of a sugarcane liquor known as cachaca, his niece Rosa Sampaio told the O Globo newspaper. He did not get word about his own funeral until it was already happening Monday morning.”
- Anthony Citrano
from Bookmarklet
“What's Ben's secret plan? Intentionally keep rates too low for too long, thus encouraging uncomfortably high inflation. Why would Ben want that when he keeps talking about the importance of managing inflation?”
- Anthony Citrano
from Bookmarklet
“The central bankers are fearful that any change to the wording of its interest rate policy or economic outlook will cause a huge panic in the stock market, the person said. As a result, it is highly likely the wording about interest rate policy will not change at all.”
- Anthony Citrano
from Bookmarklet
“It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.” [Voltaire]
“Each society believes it is on the knife-edge of knowledge and looks back with pity on peoples of earlier times because of their ignorance. We forget that future generations will look back on us the same way.” [Marilyn Ferguson]
“M-theory is an extension of string theory in which 11 dimensions are identified. Because the dimensionality exceeds the dimensionality of five superstring theories in 10 dimensions, it is believed that the 11-dimensional theory unifies all string theories. Though a full description of the theory is not yet known, the low-entropy dynamics are known to be supergravity interacting with 2- and 5-dimensional membranes.”
- Anthony Citrano
from Bookmarklet
Maine: I love you, but you confuse me. No on gay marriage; yes on pot? One step at a time, I guess.
“In Maine, an estimated 58 percent of voters approved Question 5, making Maine the third state in the nation to establish state-licensed non-profit dispensaries that will provide medical marijuana to qualified patients. This is also significant because it is the first time such a system was enacted by voters.”
- Anthony Citrano
from Bookmarklet
I'll choose to see the glass half-full and say I'm proud to be a Mainer today. Although the gay marriage initiative squeaker has me pissed.
- Anthony Citrano
every tweet today that has @acitrano in it raises money for sick babies in Africa, #twidiots.
“At one time, you needed a desk that could fit a mountain of paper, two-foot-deep monitor, printer, and a CPU the size of a Labrador. Today, your computer is an inch thick. You have moved forward. It's time your desk caught up.”
- Anthony Citrano
“What really happened to Russia's missing cosmonauts? An incredible tale of space hacking, espionage and death in the lonely reaches of space.” [Take with salt, please; and for context, see also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...]
- Anthony Citrano
from Bookmarklet
“It's not your average confession: a panel of leading physicists spilling the beans about what keeps them tossing and turning in the wee hours...”
- Anthony Citrano
from Bookmarklet
"The stretch of seabed off North Carolina and Virginia contains up to 90 wrecks, most lying at relatively shallow depths, offering divers and maritime historians unique opportunities for exploration. However, experts have warned that the wrecks are increasingly being disturbed by divers, some of whom are removing items to keep as souvenirs."
- Anthony Citrano
from Bookmarklet