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Adam Bullied › Likes
Interesting, Mike Arrington deleted the TechCrunch account on friendfeed. My additional thoughts are on mobs and this here:
Gordon Saunders, Simone Lovati, Rick Bucich and 180 other people liked this
be right back with more.
- Robert Scoble
That makes me sad because it was my favorite tech blog to click "like" on. I talked with Mike this morning at an event and he said last night was one of the worst he's ever lived through with the amount of hatred aimed at him. He deleted 600 Techcrunch comments, too, he told me.
- Robert Scoble
Wow, interesting.
- Kevin Whalen
Some of the comments I've seen on both sides of the aisle are pretty damn repugnant. I've had that kind of stuff aimed at me in the past and it's never fun.
- Robert Scoble
he pissed off Leo's hardcore fans
- David Lloyd
wow, deleted the tc account. Scoble: what do you think are going to be the long term implications of this?
- ming yeow
It just goes to show that people love to pay attention to negative things, but rarely to positives, or when people make efforts to make up for past misgivings. Sad, but human nature.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Funny, I remember helping push a mob against some people I really didn't like and a friend really ripped into me for doing that. My friend was right, of course. Interesting that not many people are speaking up against the kinds of comments (aimed personally, not at the substance of what happened). I want to be counted as one of those who stood up personally against the kind of comments I've seen.
- Robert Scoble
600 hateful comments? Puts a knot in my stomach just thinking about it. Have had the occasional hate comments but never to that extent
- David Weedmark
I didn't dig into those treads too much but imagine they got pretty nasty, probably more so on digg. too bad though, i used FF to find lots of TC content
- sean percival
Mark: and Leo should call them back and tell them shame. The kinds of things I've seen against Mike (and some against Leo too) are just awful. People saying that Mike should get cancer and die and worse.
- Robert Scoble
That seems weird.. Why would anyone delete an account on FF. Were they a lot of hateful comments posted to his account?
- Bindu Reddy
thats fucked up Robert.
- David Lloyd
David: Given the number of people who hate Arrington's guts, 600 doesn't seem too bad. Just one person harassing you over a period of years over the net (as I've had) is much worse than 600 random people digging at you once and then going away.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Very strange... Was it hacked?
- Hugo Romano
But don't you think due to a LOT of pent up frustration against Mike? His attitude has always been a point of contentment amongst lots of people i know.
- ming yeow
Bindu: Mike is actually a pretty sensitive guy beneath a lot of bluster. I'm to blame for pushing the friendfeeders to poke at Mike.
- Robert Scoble
ming: there's some of that that's Mike's fault too. But when mobs happen they always go overboard.
- Robert Scoble
SCOBLE: I was the one who posted the video on youtube (MPB326) that everyone has been linking to and I have gotten the 700+ comments to my email account. I can't believe some of the stupid things people are saying on YouTube. Terrible stuff! I was actually thinking about deleting the video.
- Mike Bracco
Sorry but he shouldn't have deleted his FF account. He should have stayed the storm. I think what he said to Leo was out of line, but to receive the vitriol he has is unnecessary. I think he deserves criticism, but not cancer threats.
- kenneth glenn
Yeah that's really screwed up. If those people want to get pissed off at something, come to a third world country and take a gander at all the "real" abuses people do. Talk about making you sick ...
- Nick in Manila
scobe: roger that. I like leo a lot, but that seemed to be an overreaction by him. then the mobs wayyyy over reacted
- ming yeow
ming: and go far further than the problem that incited them in the first place. And Mike rarely gets personal, as far as I have seen, even when his barbs are aimed at something I've done.
- Robert Scoble
Mike acts like a dick. Then again, so do I. I used to have a hate-on for him myself until I realized that really, he's a lot like me... Ballsy and annoying on the outside, but a real human with real feelings on the inside. I'm not afraid to call him a jerk to his face, but that's his behaviour I'm commenting on, not him personally.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
I don't get why people feel so compelled to fling poo at Michael. He says contentious things, has strong opinions, and sometimes screws up...that makes him human and reasonably interesting. I think that is a good thing.
- Neal Jansons
Chris: we're all dicks once in a while. I think that's part of being human. Far as I know there's only one perfect human who has walked on the earth and I bet even he wasn't perfect if we actually could get to know him.
- Robert Scoble
Neal: Everyone loves taking everyone else down a notch or two. Primate dominance games.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Mike it would be better to post the follow up video on youtube. It was an interesting conversation and would help put everything into context.
- Benjamin Taylor
Neal: Chris nailed it. We love building people up and then dragging them down. I told Mike that whenever I've gotten a shit storm to form it's been when I've been at my most interesting.
- Robert Scoble
Benjamin - yeah I wish I also captured the conversation a little while after between Arrington and Leo where they talked it out.
- Mike Bracco
This is sad
- Johni Fisher
Arrington works his ass off, I've watched him as he's gone after a story. I can't do what he does.
- Robert Scoble
Leo has this massive army of supporters, and many more who probably found the clip and came to support him. These weren't neutral third parties giving their honest opinion on the incident, they were Leo supporters through and through. I can't blame him for deleting the account, because I was reading the comments, and they were tough.
- Colin
I'm really surprised that Mike still, after all the crap he gets, feels hurt from these comments by people. But last night he and Leo were both discussing how these comments about "mike should die" are not from reasonable, of right mind people. I'm sad that he takes those comments to heart. And I'm sad that trolls thrive in this place (the internet) I love.
- Lise
Has Leo said anything to his supporters about their attacks on Mike since yesterday, by the way?
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
As much as we all may like and respect Arrington, it just seems as if he was trying to create news at Leo's expense.
- Stuart Tracte
Chris, Robert: I know, but Mike is center of poo-flinging more often than most, and he got freaking SPIT on and had his family threatened last year. It just amazes me, and honestly, each snafu just makes me more sympathetic with him personally (I still sometimes disagree with him, professionally, of course, but that is just the biz).
- Neal Jansons
from IM
Colin: yeah, and Leo should have spoken to his audience and told them to stay professional. But that will come back to Leo someday. These things always do, which is why my friend was correct when he told me never to push a mob.
- Robert Scoble
I missed TWiT so I don't know if Leo brought it up or not during the show, but I hope he took an opportunity to tell others that its not their place to fight Mike on Leo's behalf. Especially after they made up.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
But Robert, working your ass off isn't an excuse for behaving badly to people or acting the way arirngton has in the past. Hard work doesn't mean you get to be a jerk
- David Lloyd
Neal: yeah, some people become larger than life and it makes people feel that it's OK to do pretty outrageous things against them.
- Robert Scoble
Chris: He didn't. I'm not sure he's even aware of the comments Mike got.
- Vlad Bobleanta
Leo said at the end of his TWIT feed that he "had trouble sleeping last night." Perhaps because of this brou-ha-ha?
- Steve Burgess
Vlad: Thanks. That's a shame, I think it'd be really good for both sides if Leo did come out and say this to everyone. Even if he just recorded a short video clip and tossed it up, standalone.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Whatever either of them say at this point, it has gone beyond them and their ability to "do" anything
- Susan Reynolds
Robert, Leo could have said "please stay professional" a thousand times but come on, this is the internet. Do trolls, who are always ready for a fight, listen to that?
- Lise
Susan: Perhaps, but it would still help allow cooler minds and attitudes to prevail and in a shorter time than if they remain silent.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Mark: I think Arrington would agree with you.
- Robert Scoble
Chris: He brought the incident up, but didn't calm anyone down. Again, I'm not sure he's aware of what's been going on.
- Vlad Bobleanta
Also, the Gillmor Gang section is gone: http://gillmorgang.techcrunch.com/
- Greg Byrne
i still post all my posts here. i can post the other TC ones if you guys want too.
- MG Siegler
Chris, that's true, but there are still a vast army of followers who think they are in the right and just go off half cocked - and stay that way
- Susan Reynolds
Lise: true too.
- Vlad Bobleanta
Lise: probably not, but my friend's words ring true: to hold back mobs as much as possible.
- Robert Scoble
This is 1. not a surprise & 2. mobs are not at the behest of the personalities they follow. They are mobs. Mobs glom onto some perceived raison d'etre and go. If Arrington, after all of his time pushing buttons and twisting tits, is surprised by this, well, he's a whole hell of a lot dumber than he ever gets credit for being.
- Dave Martin
Leo and Steve had a big fight last night: bottom line is GG is off the twit network
- David Lloyd
MG: that would be cool. Techcrunch was my #1 most "liked" feed here on friendfeed.
- Robert Scoble
People saying stupid things in comments? This is nothing new. Sometimes you just don't want to deal with it anymore.
- Dean Clark
perhaps someone could set up an acocunt that will link to TC articles as they are posted in real time
- David Lloyd
Susan: "Madness is rare in individuals--but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." -- Nietzsche
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
I hope he recreates it.
- Johnny Worthington
Dave: I don't think he's surprised by it, just shocked at how bad it's gotten.
- Robert Scoble
Perhaps someone could write a piece detailing the mob situation, defending Arrington, and encouraging him to come back, maybe this is it.
- Colin
Dave Martin: I get why he's surprised. There's always a disconnect between someone like him and the so called community, and also there's always a mob waiting to be formed.
- Vlad Bobleanta
Not all of those comments were hateful. he pissed me off more when he deleted mine. I pointed out what he said and then opined that I didn't think it was enough and he deleted this: http://ff.im/3FDfA
- Jimminy
Big names, little names, it's still hard to see hateful things aimed your way. Intellectually most of us understand, but emotions sometimes get in the way even to the big fish
- Susan Reynolds
wtf happened? i missed it and am sorry whatever came to this has come to this.
- jeneane sessum
Chris: good quote! My history teacher in College simplified that to "the masses are asses."
- Robert Scoble
Maybe he is just shocked that not only Leo's community attacked him but also his "loyal" techcrunch community gave him a bashing
- David Lloyd
Robert, I see your point, but I don't need to be told to refrain from attacking someone. I saw what happened. I wish Leo hadn't gotten *so* angry but I respect that he feels passionately. He was defending his integrity. So that I respect. I respect Mike for handling it all so well and not throwing F bombs back. And I love Leo. But I wasn't going to curse Mike or wish death upon him. So those that did, there's no changing them.
- Lise
Jeneane: Mike and Leo got into it on Gillmor Gang yesterday. There's a whole thread about that.
- Robert Scoble
Not sure how taking TC off FF relates to the problems Arrington was having in comments on his blog. ?
- Nick in Manila
TechCrunch Question: I noticed that my comments on FF for TechCrunch articles also appeared as part of TC's comments on their site. Is that part of FF API?
- Mike Bracco
Nick: the most hostile comments were in FF comments
- David Lloyd
Jeneane: http://friendfeed.com/twit-co...
- Vlad Bobleanta
Mark: Aha.
- Nick in Manila
oh jeez. thx robert. i'm sorry to hear that. sounds like the chorus got active. - thanks for the link Vlad. had no idea.
- jeneane sessum
Mike: You can import FF comments onto Wordpress posts via a plugin
- Nicholas James
Lise: good point, but I've learned that if leaders call on their followers to behave appropriately then they usually do. I don't want anyone who calls for someone else to get cancer to read me, by the way. I am here to have great conversations about tech. Keep it on the tech and we'll have a great time.
- Robert Scoble
Lise, Robert, the hateful comments say more about the idiots who write them than about the two personalities about which the angry words swirl
- Susan Reynolds
Nick: death threats etc
- David Lloyd
Lise: There are those who were ready to tear Arrington to shreds, at least until the mutual apologies of him and Leo came out on TechCrunch. At least, I can't believe I'm the only one who felt like that. Some angry people can be assauged.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Mark: Not sure I agree. The Youtube comments are terrible.
- Mike Bracco
it's difficult to be surprised by the size of this reaction.like it or not, you guys are celebrities.
- Stuart Tracte
Mike: no, Techcrunch had a Wordpress Plugin that was doing that. That Plugin has been removed, too.
- Robert Scoble
Colin: I think the general flip-out crazy needs to be addressed, but it needs to be by an A-lister so everyone sees it. The whole way these things are happening makes the whole industry look insane and unprofessional.
- Neal Jansons
from IM
Stuart: The size, yes. The venom of it, though?
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
shouldnt be too hard to make an unofficial ff account for techcrunch posts
- David Lloyd
someone wanna go do it?
- David Lloyd
Stuart: that's the thing. We're also people and Mike is sensitive like the rest of us (even if he has built a persona that shows him as above it all).
- Robert Scoble
Mark: Surprised if someone hasn't already beaten us all to it.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Mark: I'd rather not do that. I'd rather someone at Techcrunch does that.
- Robert Scoble
There are a few existing TC accounts from their feed.
- Benjamin Taylor
Scoble's made the point that FF has structural features to control that kind of stuff. Guess it was overwhelmed.
- Nick in Manila
Chris C, so you were one of the ones wishing death upon Mike until he apologized?
- Lise
well im sure if Arrington took it down, it is probably TC policy not to have FF account, his other writers wont make one
- David Lloyd
Fanboys are going to follow whatever lead they're directed. If Leo had said that Mike had terrible BO, there'd be thousands of Leo disciples telling Arrington to get himself some deodorant. It's unfortunate, but that's the way it is.
- Jay Caruso
hows this http://friendfeed.com/techcru...
- Jack
Leo is well-spoken, he makes things sound good, he's a well-known likeable guy, and he was the one on video, that's a lot of things going for him if you ignore everything else that's going on, and people do. Just mob mentality and drive-by commenting.
- Colin
Behind every great character there is a real person. I just hope that the more rational people currently participating in the mob realize this and understand what they're doing before they do anything worse.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Nick: well, yes. I wish we could have a team feed from Techcrunch.
- Robert Scoble
I still like Mike and don't think he should have deleted the TC account. I enjoy the TC posts but find that Mike and Erick tend to get to a point that makes me want to stop reading their stuff, and I won't for a few days.
- Jimminy
Just create a public standard feed/group (owner controls posts, anyone can comnent), and import TC from twitter/RSS/whatever.
- Ken Kennedy
Lise: Not wishing death, but I certainly would have given him shit and got up in his face if I had the chance. I don't fight (often) but I do relish giving hell to people.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Done: http://friendfeed.com/techcru...
- Jack
The people who were commenting took it too far - Mike Appologised. Leo Appologised. That should have been it although Leo's fans just tried to continue to call mike for no reason.
- Nicholas James
Jay, that's not true. I am a huge Leo fangirl but I also think for myself.
- Lise
Jack, subscribed.
- Robert Scoble
Lise, it wasn't a blanket statement. I've been a fan of Leo's since the old Tech TV days. Just saying that some will take it too far and it all it takes is the person to open that door a crack.
- Jay Caruso
Thanks, Jacky boy x
- David Lloyd
Thanks, Jack!
- Neal Jansons
from IM
Thanks Jack!
- Nicholas James
Robert, is there anything else that needs doing? I think I got it right
- Jack
Wait... is Jack affiliated with Techcrunch? Why not have MG do this? He offered.
- Ken Sheppardson
Nicholas: At this point I'd probably be calling Arrington to tell him to not take it too personally, that mobs are really just sheep with pointy teeth.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
FF is a focus group in many ways. Sad commentary IMHO.
- Eric Logan
Jack, Robert: MG can handle this. He writes for Techcrunch. How 'bout we not squat on their brand?
- Ken Sheppardson
Chris C, exactly. You just said, you relish giving people hell. You're always ready for a fight. I, on the other hand, am not. And I looked at this situation and considered both sides, despite being a huge Leo fan and not knowing many details on Mike (other than he pisses people off)
- Lise
Is there really much more discussion about this? What is done is done. It's already in the past & let's move on. No one knows how this will affect Leo in the future if at all.
- Jason Hansen
Want to know what else happened? A single moderator in Leo's IRC chat room muted the entire channel, causing the mob to spill into FriendFeed.
- Colin
When I first was diagnosed w/ cancer and the twitter community started the frozen pea fund to donate to cancer research, Mike and Robert were among the first to write about it. As I see it, they both keep a human touch to the community no matter how popular the following. I appreciate that and so maybe its easier for me to see past some of the things that upset the crowds.
- Susan Reynolds
I'm not affiliated in any way with TC
- Jack
are you okay now Susan ? xxx
- David Lloyd
Lise: anyone who does interesting things in media is going to piss someone off. Even me, I try to take reasonable positions and do my homework, but I have lots of haters out there too. It's unavoidable.
- Robert Scoble
Jason, I think there is. Considering Mike deleted his account and the GG site no longer exists on techcrunch. I feel bad for Mike and Steve.
- Lise
OK, if he asks
- Jack
Eric - true - ff as focus group
- Susan Reynolds
Why do you feel bad for Mike & Steve?
- Jason Hansen
Lise: Steve deleted the GG page, if I heard that correct. It will be interesting to see how the Gillmor Gang goes forward from here.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, no I get that. But that's my point. I know Mike is capable of that. And I'm way more of a Leo fangirl. Yet I wasn't with my fist in the air yelling "fight!"
- Lise
Mark - thanks for asking. Not OK but very supported by the best of the net
- Susan Reynolds
Basically the only 2 people who should have been involved was Mike and Leo. They both appologised - the mob tried to get involved and call Mike for no reason - I mean after both of them appologising to each other that should have been it - people took it too far with some of the comments I saw yesterday.
- Nicholas James
Because Steve realized his show isn't really his show. And Mike got hell when he didn't even give Leo that much shit to begin with.
- Lise
You know, my main issue with what happened yesterday, is that it was an ego clash. And just that. Funny that in the make-up part Leo kept insisting that he'd like more content on GG and less drama, an hour or two after he himself caused a helluva lot of drama. I do love Leo and watch all of his shows, but yesterday he was overreacting. And I think he figured that out in the mean time....
more...
- Vlad Bobleanta
ROBERT: oops caps, I do know Leo and Steve had a fight last night and its not gonna be on TWiT anymore x
- David Lloyd
If the mob is acting "in Leo's name", then I think Leo should try and tell them that they're certainly not acting with his permission or blessings. That they should disband and stop attacking Mike.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Steve still seems like he's trying to throw his weight around and try to be in complete control of the show. He needs to remember its not just about him - its about the audience - something he said he didn't care about yesterday
- Nicholas James
My impression is the guy went over tipping point for the kind of character he was putting out there, at some point people are going to say enough is enough.
- Ian Wright
Nicholas: the show used to be private, Im not sure Steve cares that much about the audience
- David Lloyd
Live by the sword...
- Ian Wright
Vlad, it was the final straw for Leo. He had said before that Mike was becoming too trollish during the GG show. And when he felt like Mike was about to attack his integrity, well, he blew up. Unfortunately.
- Lise
gillmor gang is going to be nothing more than a conference call :-(
- Tobias Lewsadder
Nicholas: Steve cares about the audience more than he lets on. He knows that by making things interesting he's doing right by the audience. That doesn't mean, though, that you kowtow to the audience.
- Robert Scoble
Tobias: heheh, in the real time world? THAT I would have to see!
- Robert Scoble
Isn't that your opinion Robert?
- Jason Hansen
I watched the whole thing unfold last night including the after show and it was clear that Mike Arrington spoke before he thought and didn't mean it to come out like people including Leo took it. I am glad that they both cooled down and realized it was a simple mis communication. Its too bad the crowd can't do the same. Mike Arrington may be a pain in the butt but pain in the butts are interesting.
- Kim Landwehr
Jason, sorry, lost context. This is all my opinion. I can't speak for anyone else other than me.
- Robert Scoble
Kim: bing!
- Robert Scoble
"Arrington works his ass off, I've watched him as he's gone after a story. I can't do what he does." Doesn't make his insinuations right. I work hard and couldn't do what he does probably - but that doesn't mean he can act like a jerk - repeatedly according to some.
- Mark Outten
I'm pretty sure the Techcrunch <-> Friendfeed comment sync was disabled a few days ago. Not sure it had anything to do with the dust-up yesterday.
- Ken Sheppardson
Lise: I know why it happened. I understand that was building inside Leo over time. I get that.
- Vlad Bobleanta
Robert, that really bugged me that Steve said he didn't care about the community. But I agree, he cares greatly about the show and the community. He wouldn't have been so hurt if he didn't.
- Lise
i was blown away by the second episode of gg. it almost seemed like arrington was torn by who he had turned into, at least the negativity that resides within hm.
- Tobias Lewsadder
It's probably just the mob he's upset with Lise.
- Colin
I also agree with Kim. I enjoyed watching GG at 6:00 PM during the last hour of shift at work. I would still watch it as well as TWiT.
- Jason Hansen
He was hurt by some of the comments, he also blamed Dave Winer for alot of problems
- David Lloyd
Mark: who said he's a jerk? Sometimes we're all jerks. And, anyway, when he's being a jerk he usually is keeping it on the story. Not personal. He's taken lots of shots at me but has NEVER said that I should get cancer and die. That's unacceptable.
- Robert Scoble
Vlad, okay and I agree with you that Mike should blow those comments off. I'm shocked he hasn't grown a thicken skin
- Lise
I think that if anyone bothered to read the Techcrunch appology and watch/listen to the 2nd Gillmor Gang yesterday they'd know the full story. The mob listened to the 1st Gillmor Gang only and drew their conclusions - some of that mob didn't even listen to Gillmor Gang - they just jumped on the bandwagon like sheep especially as they saw like a 1 minute clip on Youtube summarising it.
- Nicholas James
I don't know Arrington personally, all I can judge him from is his body of work with TechCrunch and it's top notch. Anyone who criticizes him in a vicious way needs to look in the mirror. A lot of those with the harsh words are probably typing it from their parents basement. I just hate when people rip other people with a pretext of being something else when it's really jealousy.
- Mike Bracco
Lise: it's always easy to say people should have a thick skin until you're the one at the center of a mob getting kicked in the groin. ;-)
- Robert Scoble
Mike: bing!
- Robert Scoble
Steve Gillmor clearly stated that he doesn't care about the audience. And that's that for me, Robert. Lise: I can see Steve cares about the show, and especially his brand inside the show. About the audience, he said it better than I ever could. Please believe the man.
- Vlad Bobleanta
I think the Steve-Leo conflict (which was briefly obvious on the show) got totally overshadowed and subsumed by the Leo-Mike issue.
- Nick in Manila
Robert's comment exactly.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Robert, true. I know I couldn't handle it.
- Lise
Robert: You like Microsoft's new search engine. ;)
- Jason Hansen
Vlad: you aren't listening carefully. I heard what Steve said yesterday and totally understood what he was saying. You can't let the audience drive your product. Ask a Porsche owner what they want and they'll say "more trunk space, smoother ride, more leg room, etc." They just designed a Volvo.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: 100% agreed. I do not want to be in Mike's position, ever.
- Vlad Bobleanta
Vlad: all of us in media care DEEPLY about the audience. If you hung around any of these people you'd know that we read every comment and take them very seriously. But the day you start listening to the audience and kowtowing to them is the day when you lose your way.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: How does the mob get its "justice" then? I have not seen the venomous postings you speak of, nor do I agree in any way that that is the way to go. So, how does this get resolved? I, like many, believe Leo was being "entrapped". How does Arrington get out of this with his reputation intact? He's done alot for all of us and definitely does not deserve the level of hatred you speak of, but something need to be done...
- Stuart Tracte
Stuart: most of the nastiest stuff has been deleted.
- Robert Scoble
Make a good product and the audience will find you.
- Kim Landwehr
Side note: Do not try to converse on FF on an iphone.... had a whole paragraph written out.... and lost it...
- Stuart Tracte
I think Arrington and Leo will come out of this fine, I'm already paying more attention to both of them.
- Colin
Stuart: you should go and listen to the second show we did last night. Leo wasn't entraped. And he didn't have to react that way. When people question my ethics I answer them calmly. I get questioned on that all the time.
- Robert Scoble
Every week someone asks me if I'm paid by friendfeed, for instance.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: I am listening, and I get your point. I never got Steve's attitude, though. And I was just spinning what he said, I did get the underlying meaning.
- Vlad Bobleanta
(I'm not).
- Robert Scoble
Tonights FF homework: listen to the full GG show to become better informed http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill...
- Jack
i was in the middle of typing a comment on tech crunch last night when mike shut down the comments, how sad. he mentioned having to have a police car parked in front of his house in the past for similar issues... that is wrong!!!
- Tobias Lewsadder
SCOBLE: totally agree! true innovation can't come from what the "flock" is saying they want. True innovators are so because they create something that no-one knew they needed until it is created.
- Mike Bracco
Honestly, I suspect that every person who got really pissed at @arrington over the years but had decided to ignore him went back and told him what they'd thought of him all along. He's ruined companies and products on the grandstand. I read his stuff like I watch fox news, for the truth far from the middle but for clues of what might be left out on the sunny side.
- Shava Nerad
Vlad: Gillmor is an interesting person. I don't always get him either.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, still. I am that community that Steve supposedly doesn't care about. And that's where I almost did pump my fist in the air. When Steve said he didn't care and Leo instantly said he *did* care. But... again, I feel bad for Steve, still. His issue was just loss of control over his baby (the show)
- Lise
Colin: Professionally, sure! This isn't any kind of permanent damage to either of them. Personally, though, I know that it's got to hurt them both.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Chris, I think they're both tougher now.
- Colin
Shava: He's made many hundreds of companies too. I don't know of a single one that was ruined by TechCrunch. Please back that statement up.
- Robert Scoble
Colin: You'd be surprised. Often the people who seem to have the thickest skin on the outside are the most sensitive on the inside.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Does Leo know any of this, btw? I think he thinks this is all over with...considering he was joking about it all. I think he's embarrassed and trying to make light of it. But I don't think it's over, unfortunately.
- Lise
Seriously everyone who did not listen to the 2nd show shouldn't even comment on it. Infact the problem should be over and done with it was a minor row which ended pretty quickly with both appologising to each other. That should be the end of it. Instead of people jumping on the bandwagon trying to call someone because he has a huge readership base and earns a nice amount of revenue from his blog
- Nicholas James
still watching.
- jeneane sessum
If they were ruined by TechCrunch then I'd have to call that company pretty lame. Remember PodTech? Mike pointed out a lack of leadership at the company. In hindsight Mike was right.
- Robert Scoble
Chris, but that outer skin just got thicker lol, I dunno, I just think it has to be a big lesson to both of them, they'll remember it.
- Colin
Lise: I don't know what Leo is seeing right now. I should call him and check in.
- Robert Scoble
I don't know about Mike, but Leo was already making fun of the incident on TWIT, realized their was a slight overreaction on his part
- Kim Landwehr
Colin: Yes, they'll remember it. But that outer skin is just their media personalities. You're ignoring the real people behind those names, and how they feel about it.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
I don't even believe that Mike was about to question Leo's ethics. He was just upset that they didn't get a Pre. And wanted to make a point about how Palm selects reviewers. I never questioned Leo's integrity. Neither Mike's. I think they'd be really stupid to endanger their careers like that. Which settles it for me.
- Vlad Bobleanta
Robert: Will you pass him the link to this discussion?
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Wow...did not expect to learn this when I logged onto FriendFeed.
- Ben Parr
Vlad: you weren't hearing Mike. Please go listen to the second show. He made it very clear why he was asking those questions. Mike asks me all the time about my ethics. It's his way of digging for stories.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, you should. I hope they can work this out. It's definitely not smoothed over. Maybe between Mike and Leo but not all 3.
- Lise
Bwana: But we need to know what every single person on FriendFeed thinks about the relationship between Leo, Mike, and Steve... did you miss the memo?
- Ken Sheppardson
I'll say this again, but Leo's IRC chat was muted, and chatters spilled right onto FriendFeed. If you were reading the IRC chat at the time, it was 100% pro-Leo. Those people normally don't come on FriendFeed, but when they were muted, this was the first place they came to, because this is the 2nd largest chat Leo endorses.
- Colin
Robert: That's his way of digging for stories... fine. However, is that something you would do to a respected friend?
- Jason Hansen
Mmmyeah, Steve's issue was loss of control over the show. I get that. I've seen how awkward it was at times. But still. How old are these people again?
- Vlad Bobleanta
Lise: that's true. Steve feels his show was stepped on needlessly.
- Robert Scoble
Jason: All's fair in love and war... And in media.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Jason: in this business? Yes. I ask MYSELF all the time am I on the right side of the ethical line. And when someone is getting a goodie and I'm not, it sure does make me wonder WHY.
- Robert Scoble
steve should host the show and he boot whomever he wants and not invite back guests he doesnt feel fit into gg.
- Tobias Lewsadder
Tobias: I agree. Steve should be in charge of the off switch on his own show.
- Robert Scoble
To run a show, you have to do what Leo does, you have to be able to control cameras and mics, and Steve really needs to get that kind of control, or Leo's operator needs to stay neutral, and out of it.
- Colin
Tobias: Steve should take things offline for making the show, and then broadcast it afterwards, rather than doing it live. That might help reduce the bad attitudes it seems to bring out from its hosts and guests.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
I do think Steve had a point, It is his show and Leo really didn't have the right to shut the show down, no matter how mad he was
- Kim Landwehr
Robert: I would like to see the inner of the business for a week or two. It would be an interesting learning experience I'm sure.
- Jason Hansen
Tobias: I think it was unprofessional for Leo to pull the off switch on someone else's show while on air. It makes me wonder how Leo would treat me if I were to host a show on his network.
- Robert Scoble
out of interest. was leo, steve or arrington making money from GG? will this have business implications
- Anthony Feint
Robert: It would depend if you pissed him off ;)
- Nicholas James
Anthony: not yet, but whenever audiences get built around media properties there's always money involved eventually.
- Robert Scoble
No Anthony, this was a Saturday, and people's free time.
- Colin
Chris: Steve lives and breathes "live".
- Nick in Manila
Nicholas: if I pissed someone off they should bite their lip and fire me after the show. That's professionalism. It also gives people a chance to explain themselves. When you're on air it's very difficult to discuss business in a professional way.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: How much time has Leo spent on the air over the past 10 years or so? How many incidents like this have their been? Seems like you might literally be blowing it out of proportion, re "It makes me wonder how Leo would treat me"
- Ken Sheppardson
Robert: I saw the show yesterday. Yeah, I know, my point was more that he was using the ethical question to start off his 'story' about Palm sending review units. Which is exactly what he said in part 2 of the show, when you were on too. And it's exactly what you kinda said. So let's agree to agree, even if my phrasing isn't phenomenal right now :)
- Vlad Bobleanta
Robert: I gotta agree with Ken's last statement.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
I like Mike, I really do, and I respect him, but he has to take some responsibility. Its not what he says, its how he says it, that rubs people the wrong way
- Stephen Pickering
Ken: that's not the point. Leo has always been on someone else's network. Now he's trying to build a network of his own. That requires a different set of sensibilities.
- Robert Scoble
The interesting thing for me was that about a month ago, on another TWiT show, Leo expressed some negative sentiment about Arrington and the way he sort of "stir things up" to try to get responses out of people. It was on net@nite I believe. Anyway, that is the first thing I thought of when this happened yesterday.
- Mike Bracco
so I guess we are that petty? such a waste of our attention. Lets get back to reading / listening / sharing. Hopefully Mike will consider friendfeed again down the road and shake off all the negative publicity/bad feelings about inciting Leo.
- Mark Essel
but was leo giving free bandwidth to GG?
- Anthony Feint
Chris: I was one of Leo's "Laporteans" and have been a friend of Leo's before I even had a blog. I love the guy.
- Robert Scoble
Anthony: yes, but again, if you are going to fire someone in media, or shut down someone else's show, you should do that off air.
- Robert Scoble
Anthony: but maybe that's just me.
- Robert Scoble
I thought the comments towards Mike yesterday were overwhelmingly positive after they both apologized. I gained a new respect for Mike yesterday.
- Jesse Stay
Robert "that's not the point. Leo has always been on someone else's network. Now he's trying to build a network of his own. That requires a different set of sensibilities" That's why i made it a point to say Leo would be better off Not "Hosting" the GG but being a Out of Studio Guest
- Erle Stride
Mike B, exactly, he was ready to be attacked by Mike. He said it himself. So he went overboard.
- Lise
Scoble: Can't substantiate at the moment, so skip it as unsubstantiated, but I remember 2-3 times seeing what he said about something, and what others said, and thinking, he was just talking things down to be contrarian. It's like ValleyWag -- are you familiar with them? Thing is I rarely have read his stuff lately. I prefer constructive criticism over snark negativity, and that's the...
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- Shava Nerad
As an outsider viewing the beginning of the show, my impression was that Leo lashed out as if their is some pent up frustration/anger towards Arrington.
- Kevin Whalen
Anthony: I think Leo agrees there, too. He said he was wrong to shut down the show.
- Robert Scoble
I think Leo shouldn't have stopped the whole show, after all it is Steve's show. However I can understand why he did. It seems to me he was never quite happy with GG on Twit from the beginning. Which is what he kinda admitted in part2. If the show were to stay on Twit, I think they should just get someone in the cottage to switch between cameras and stuff, and Leo should be a guest. In Steve's show.
- Vlad Bobleanta
Shava: I've been on Valleywag more than 70 times.
- Robert Scoble
I always had the impression, especially after yesterday's second part, that Leo had never heard the show before letting it on his network. "Oh right you chat with Scoble, Calacanis, Arrington, Doc Searls et al, sounds good I'll host it"; unaware of the drama that occurs.
- Jack
Vlad: I agree, and I think so does Leo and Steve.
- Robert Scoble
Kevin: Leo's talked about what he dislikes in Mike's persona before, but this is the first time things really came to a head.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
squarespace sounds interesting (still listening) - does put #squarespace in your tweet still enter you in the contest?
- jeneane sessum
Robert: yeah I agree to...im just wondering where the shows going to go. ITs going to lose a big audience. I only watched because it was on twit and techcrunch
- Anthony Feint
Probably not a good idea to be a guest and be in control of a show at the same time.
- Kim Landwehr
Leo DOES have the right to pull the show it's HIS network That's why Steve got so Pissy Lastnight
- Erle Stride
Really, he apologized, so shouldn't this be over if it's over between the two antagonists? But then this is the Internet. And yes, I figured you know Valleywag, but this is a general audience as well. A lot of folks don't overlap
- Shava Nerad
Robert, don't you think this is a bit of a soap opera?
- Jon Lebkowsky
Kevin: That exactly the way it appeared to this outsider.
- Nick in Manila
Vlad, I think we all agree that Leo shouldn't have shut the show down. But I think removing Leo from his own network in his own studio is silly. Do you really think he's going to do this again?
- Lise
Jon: of course!
- Robert Scoble
Mike sounded so reasonable last night. He told Leo and Steve not to make any rash decisions about the show, I'm surprised he didn't apply the same wisdom to himself and yanked the TC account so fast
- Stephen Pickering
Jon: of course this is all a soap opera. So is real life.
- Robert Scoble
If Arrington had gotten a free Pre to preview this never would havve happened
- Chris Patterson
Shava: The thing is, even if this weren't the internet, all our talking heads would still be talking about this. It's like with any kind of media personality, new old doesn't matter.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Sigh. Okay. "Desperate Technorati."
- Jon Lebkowsky
jeneane: No, Calacanis just asked that the listeners of TWiT do that to support the sponsors of the show.
- Mike Bracco
Jeneane The contest starts on Monday. Details at squarespace.com/iphone
- Vlad Bobleanta
Stephen: lots of us can see the sins in other people but can't see our own sins quite so clearly. Myself included. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Chris, I see.
- Kevin Whalen
I'm not sure I agree that life has to be a soap opeat, but I have to agree that it often is.
- Jon Lebkowsky
Arrington was treated terribly - no doubt. is this new for him? no. has he treated others terribly? yes. will deleting the account keep people from treating him badly? no. will it stop him from treating others poorly? i doubt it. we all act like jerks sometimes. some of us have a bigger audience when it happens. some of us get a lot more crap when we do it. the folks who get extra crap...
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- MikeAmundsen
Your right, I've got to learn to practice that on myself
- Stephen Pickering
These guys could use some zazen.
- Jon Lebkowsky
lol, Jon!
- Shava Nerad
I guess I missed the terrible part on FriendFeed - TechCrunch or Digg or the TWiT chatroom, maybe, but it seemed to me FriendFeed was rooting for Mike by the end of that show.
- Jesse Stay
Lise: Lol. Dunno, we'll see.
- Vlad Bobleanta
i think this can be debated for days... perhaps finding a resolution should the direction here.
- Tobias Lewsadder
Sad. The Techcrunch items were some of my favorite part of Friendfeed. And I seem to remember an issue Mike wrote about some weeks back that impressed me with non-tech issues he feels strongly about. I hope he comes back with the Techcrunch account because whatever else, a few of us think he's part of here.
- George Hall (Australia)
Jesse: I think the stuff that got TechCrunch to delete friendfeed came last night.
- Robert Scoble
Less chatter, more photon splatter? What's the big deal, everbody's human and loses their cool at times. Some social media/stars/hosts are working very very long days and it's way to easy to fly off the handle when someone questions your rep.
- Mark Essel
Which is sad because that was the only way I read TechCrunch before. Hopefully MG continues to share his posts.
- Jesse Stay
MikeAmundsen: It only takes one dog to bite out your throat. Mike's lucky in this regard that it's a bunch of people screaming at him once or twice and then disappearing into the void, so much as this issue is concerned. When you have one person in a campaign against you for a long time, though, the damage is far worse than what this mob is doing to Mike.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Tobias: yeah, not sure there is a resolution. I hope everyone who listens to me and interacts on my behalf remembers that there's people involved here.
- Robert Scoble
Mike Admundsen - you nailed it
- Liza
I expect the friendfeed, if it was anything like this, was too fast and nasty to moderate, and when things die down he'll be back. I can see me doing that if things got fast and nasty
- Shava Nerad
If anyone wants a divergence from this serious talk, check out this CALACANIS AUDIBLE LOVE DANCE that I just recorded from today's TWiT - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- Mike Bracco
Jesse: http://www.friendfeed.com/techcru... - someone remade it ;)
- Nicholas James
Mike kept saying that a bunch of FriendFeeders wanted to see him dead. I never saw those kind of comments. Were those kind of awful things said?
- Stephen Pickering
I suspect they'll get over it. I've certainly had some emotional moments that led me to delete accounts and worse.
- Jon Lebkowsky
Anyway, in a week we'll be back to talking about Apple's new iPhone. Bwana is right. Heheh.
- Robert Scoble
Bwana, tis true lol, I'm excited to see what Santa will bring.
- Colin
And got ove rit.
- Jon Lebkowsky
Robert By the sounds of it
- Erle Stride
One thing to remember, on the internet we are all still people. Attack egos, attack actions but leave the people alone
- Chris Patterson
Bwana: If only Palm had given more people Pre's the other day, we wouldn't be talking about this. ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
I'm with Leo - I don't think there will be a new iPhone
- Jesse Stay
Yes, I will get the new Iphone!!!!!!! Yeah, I've been living with a Razor for two years, but I'm not excited about AT&T
- Stephen Pickering
Stephen: yeah, but they weren't people who I recognized. Anyway, time to move on. If I ever participate in a Mob again, just kick me in the knees, OK?
- Robert Scoble
Chris Patterson: AMEN.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
h Leo and Steve feel the GG and TWiT don't belong together I just wonder who will be the first to pull the trigger
- Erle Stride
well, you folks solve the problems of the world, I have to go feed folks dinner...:) Seeya later Jon! Nice to run across you.
- Shava Nerad
OK, I will! heheheh
- Stephen Pickering
Tking acct down does nothing to address issue - scoble, we'll kick you in knees if you mob - settles it!
- Liza
Shava: I gotta go play with Milan who just woke up. Seeya!
- Robert Scoble
Yay - saved by Milan, Scoble!
- Liza
Tad: :)
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
And yet, a Friendfeed without Arrington is lessened. He was as much a part of Friendfeed as Scoble. Heck, it just doesn't seem like Friendfeed UNLESS you've got both Arrington and Scoble talking.
- George Hall (Australia)
Deleting the FF account was an emotional reaction. I mean, think about it. Will that stop people over here talking about Mike or TC stuff? Of course not. So what's the point then? Just that Mike will never ever load FF again and therefore won't see some bad stuff being said about him? Sounds strange to me. I hope he changes his mind, because being less engaged with the audience is never good in my book. Trolls can be blocked. Bad stuff can be ignored. But to stifle what can be good conversations...why?
- Vlad Bobleanta
robert could it be as simple as... arrington was a jerk, laporte overreacted in attempts to defend his integrity. both were at fault in one way or another. it is the job of the host of the show to end this all. steve needs to step up and ask everyone to drop it.
- Tobias Lewsadder
Now you can't post comments to his last article on techcrunch, how cool is that?
- GeorgeAris
Vlad: when people get beat up they don't always make smart decisions.
- Robert Scoble
Hopefully Mike Arrington will come back to FF after a short time off, He will be missed
- Kim Landwehr
Did someone make the techcrunch account again to save it for him? heh
- Lise
Perhaps it's time we made an effort to make Mike feel welcome back here again.
- George Hall (Australia)
Would there be agreement that this was out of character for Leo and is there anyone following this that hasn't lost it in a professional situation? I sure he meant what he said, although I'm also sure he regrets it happened and feels like an ass.
- Jim Gablick
Tobias: Actually, if Steve can get the two of them in one room and shake hands and tell everyone together to lay off on the attacks, perhaps they might. It's a longshot but it could go a far way to making things better between them all, too.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Talking? I don't see Arrington as a talker...I see (saw) him as a sabre rattler and drama king. Unless there's controversy, he's not quiet. Finally, someone told him to shut the hell up for the tool behavior that's his M.O. Scob, if he couldn't stand the heat....
- C. Jason Mancebo
Karim: LOL>
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Robert: Agreed. I understand.
- Vlad Bobleanta
That drama button was hilarious Karim
- Benjamin Taylor
Jason: I don't think Mike minded Leo going off on him so much. It's the aftermath of having the mobs kick him in the nuts that got to him, me thinks.
- Robert Scoble
C. Jason: He's that too, but it is a talker. He does engage. And when he's not putting up that jerkface public persona, I'm pretty sure he's a nice, cool guy you can have drinks with.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
i cant believe that we are actually discussing this. shouldnt we feel disgusted that someone felt attacked enough to cancel his account. jerk or not he is human
- Tobias Lewsadder
agreed Scoble
- Kim Landwehr
never been a fan of mob mentality myself...
- George Hall (Australia)
Scob, I think it's cumulative. He's gotten away with ALOT of stirring the pot for a while and people just have had it. Be a contributor, or go away....but I certainly don't agree with the "death and cancer wishes"...that's completely unnecessary.
- C. Jason Mancebo
Chris: Mike is always interesting. I was at a tech industry brunch this morning with him and he's always got an interesting conversation going on.
- Robert Scoble
How does the saying go... "Live by the swarm, die by the swarm"?
- Ken Sheppardson
Jason: then we're on the same side. Arrington gets to me once in a while too. He knows how to push my buttons as well and get me all wound up. But that also is how he gets stories before anyone else does.
- Robert Scoble
Heck, Arrington's style created BUZZZ. So why treat him badly?
- George Hall (Australia)
It is almost like working for Microsoft. You get attacked daily.
- Chris Patterson
C. Jason: I'm a big jerk myself, on the outside, but that doesn't mean I'm not a sensitive and caring person on the inside. He's more than just his persona, he's an actual person too. Sometimes someone does have to come out and say "stop being such a dick" to me, and no doubt to him. But attacking en mass the way this mob [redacted] is doing, that's just not right.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Chris Patterson: LOL. Good one.
- Vlad Bobleanta
George: Arrington has done something remarkable. We always talk about him. He doesn't always like what we're saying, but I told him this morning that he has created a media company that is doing interesting things and that he should worry about the day when we're not all mobbing on him for some reason or another.
- Robert Scoble
I don't understand Arrington's defense. He's really nice, soft and fluffy on the inside even though he attacks you in public and calls out your integrity? He may have his own issues to deal with, but he's in the public eye and he should expect the wrath of the Internet to reign down when he pulls an asshat move like this one. How many times does he get to slip out of the antics he...
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- Eric @ CS Techcast
Maybe he read the Terms and Conditions here at FriendFeed and freaked out?
- Kenneth Stein
George: that said, it's not always fun and games being the center of all that kind of attention.
- Robert Scoble
+1 on Arrington getting stories before anyone else...when Friendfeed was down a few weeks ago, he was the only one who could provide info on why. Fastest news of that particular day.
- George Hall (Australia)
Robert: Don't I know it.
- George Hall (Australia)
Eric, does his actions, though, really warrant people to wish death upon him? (which is, apparently what he's upset about)
- Lise
Chris Charabaruk: Let's just please not call them Leo fans anymore. A mob is a mob. I'm a Leo fan and was not part of any mob, ever. And I don't want that association to stick in my head.
- Vlad Bobleanta
Chris, I'm sure he is, but too often, people need to hide behind their persona for whatever reason. His is the sabre rattler/pot stirrer...he went WAY too far insulting a pretty good guy's ethics. Not good, but certainly agree with the over zealous backlash..not good as well. I guess "you reap what you sew" is certainly valid
- C. Jason Mancebo
Vlad: I'm also a Leo fan and I totally see your point. I'll edit that bit out...
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Vlad, yes. I take offense to that whole Leo fans thing. I'm a huge Leo fan. I don't act that way.
- Lise
RobertS: this seems so reminiscent of the January fracas in Europe. Why is it that Arrington engenders such anger in people (and i'm not talking about Leo here)? this isn't some cosmic joke on good ol' boy MIke Arrington. there's a lot of history here. there's a lot of anger that Arrington has exhibited over a long period of time. don't get me wrong, i feel badly for the man. but not...
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- MikeAmundsen
let him go.
- Stalyn☂
Eric: integrity is something we should always ask of each other. I don't mind if you ask me those kinds of questions. I got a review unit of the Palm Pre too. You SHOULD be asking whether that biases my review in some way. Mike was mostly digging for a story yesterday, not attacking Leo. That's something you gotta know Arrington about. He was digging and got a reaction he wasn't expecting.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I heard that yesterday, and Leo just popped off. Mike really didn't deserve this one, which you can hear. What upsets me now is that I can see he does personalize a lot of this stuff, which was really done by Leo's audience, and Leo's chat room has an audience I wouldn't wish on my worse enemy. I loved it when we started the FF chat so I wouldn't have to listen to Leo's immature...
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- Francine Hardaway
it seems like people who have been angered by mike at one time or another are using this as an opportunity to lay into him.
- Tobias Lewsadder
C Jason: Exactly , it is one thing to attack a persons opinion, but attacking someone's ethics is really harsh
- Chris Patterson
Francine: well said.
- Robert Scoble
We had a good discussion yesterday at a tweetup in the city about the whole thing. I think MIke ABSOLUTELY deserved this one. It's been a long time coming. The whole backlash, not deserved, but not surprised.
- C. Jason Mancebo
WHAT!!!?
- Jason Pollock
C. Jason: if Mike was hiding behind his persona instead of showing the real self, he'd be blasting back at his detractors, not removing their comments and killing the old TC account here.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
NO ONE deserves to have personal attacks that deal with their life or family.
- Chris Patterson
I don't think these are even people who were angered by Mike, it was just mob rule. And there's no such thing as an online conversation that's "a long time coming" and bad enough to make someone want to get away from being online. That shouldn't be the way we act.
- Francine Hardaway
So Arrington and the other guy worked it out between themselves...so why should a mob stretch things any further?
- George Hall (Australia)
Lise, you are absolutely right, that isn't right; no threats are necessary. I didn't see that here however. Not from the regular FF crowd that have regular activity, so I really didn't see that personally.
- Eric @ CS Techcast
Chris: Mike wasn't attacking someone else's ethics. Listen carefully to both shows yesterday. He was asking questions. Leo took it too personally, me thinks (he thinks so too, in hind sight). If your ethics are really above reproach you can answer calmly and professionally.
- Robert Scoble
Chris, I think he was hiding behind it in public and now is effected beyond the persona.
- C. Jason Mancebo
Francine: very well said.
- Vlad Bobleanta
Francine: agreed #2. Well said.
- Robert Scoble
Geroge Hall correct.
- Francine Hardaway
George: Mob mentality. 100 sheep on their own are perfectly fine, but if they freak out and charge in the same direction...
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Francine: mobs can get out of control here in the real time web. Not sure how we can fix that.
- Robert Scoble
Scoble, I gotta respectfully disagree with you. He was absolutely trying to make something out of nothing. Totally NOT ETHICAL!
- C. Jason Mancebo
Well, you don't want to be in their way.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
These things push my buttons because I see so much potential for good in the online community and I want the bad stuff to go away. I know that's unrealistic
- Francine Hardaway
Eric, I didn't notice those either but I wasn't the one attacked and wasn't looking for those. Despite that, Mike saw it/felt it. That's the point.
- Lise
Never liked mobs, never liked being on receiving end of them, never liked following any.
- George Hall (Australia)
Making a story is not creating a story. Not cool!
- C. Jason Mancebo
Jason: I can understand how you see it that way. DId you watch the second Gilmor Gang last night? Mike explained why he was asking those questions and Leo answered much more calmly.
- Robert Scoble
I vote we try to help Mike feel wanted here again.
- George Hall (Australia)
maybe leo should join us and ask people to lay off
- Tobias Lewsadder
Robert, I haven't heard the second show, but in the first one Leo clearly said that it was a review unit.
- Chris Patterson
I'm going to email mike.
- Francine Hardaway
Jason: personally the free stuff and review units and access DO bias our reporting and that's something that we SHOULD talk about calmly and professionally. Our audiences should hear our answers. I don't think Mike's question was one that shouldn't be asked. Of EVERYONE.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, did you get a hold of Leo about this yet?
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Scoble, I think it was prettied up for public consumption by both of them. Sure, Leo could have been better about it. Absolutely. But I just am not with you on that one. Agree to disagree on this.
- C. Jason Mancebo
You should see the second show. You haven't seen that, you can't really get the gist of it. imho.
- Vlad Bobleanta
This is not about Arrington but about much larger issues and tensions that are brewing - amt of comments is undeniable proof of that.
- Liza
Robert Scoble, I understand your point. "If you only knew him..." I'm sure if I had a beer with the guy I'd grow to love him and all, but I haven't and all I have to go on is what I saw, and I can't side with M.A., not after his history with shooting first with his posts and comments. He really needs to put himself in the mind of the public that find a problem with his actions without...
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- Eric @ CS Techcast
Chris: and Mike, in the second show, explained why he was asking that. Techcrunch didn't get a review unit and his theory is that Palm is only giving review units to people who are saying nice things about Palm.
- Robert Scoble
On the early access units, how in the hell is anyone (Scoble, McCracken, Ubergizmo) supposed to review anything early without early access units. It's not a gift, it's a loaner.
- C. Jason Mancebo
Chris: I'm calling Leo now.
- Robert Scoble
I think Leo was right in getting mad
- Johnathan Schultz
Ask Leo to come in here
- Lise
Come on guys. If you haven't watched the second show, you're blowing in the wind.
- Nick in Manila
This talk of super-scary Friendfeed "mobs" is all a little hyperbolic.
- Christopher A Carr
Leo should not have said such inflammatory things.. Even if he was pissed off he could have handled himself in a professional manner on the air
- Jason Pollock
mike totally clarified himself and leo apologized for taking it the wrong way.
- Tobias Lewsadder
A promoter is not a journalist. Much of what I see on TC, and here and elsewhere illustrates that YOU are buzzing things, creating hype which in part drives it forward. The coverage ought to be balanced though, and it's going to likely lead to unfortunate and unnecessary consequences. This might shed a bit of light on it. http://bit.ly/LfVJk
- Kenneth Stein
Jason: I hate the review unit thing. Walt Mossberg got his weeks ago.
- Robert Scoble
I guess nobody takes Sunday evenings with their families these days, eh?
- Ken Sheppardson
Johnathan: Leo's anger was justified, yeah, but how he expressed it was a bit much. But how the way the mob took it as a call to action, that's bad.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
I think it should be stressed that Leo can't be held responsible for anything anyone else says. On the irc chat, here wherever.
- Vlad Bobleanta
It is really too bad the conversation went bad. Mike really did have some good questions to ask about how business ethics and free products review or not. He just started the conversation really badly
- Kim Landwehr
leo's language on the air incited the hate comments that techcrunch got
- Jason Pollock
HI Liza, well, I see it yes and no....this specific thing is a good example of "you don't get to be a shit stirrer and get away with it forever".
- C. Jason Mancebo
Christopher: A mob is a mob, online or off.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Lise, getting threats like that is something no one should go through, I agree. People should act with civility.
- Eric @ CS Techcast
Interesting post of Mike Arrington(The New York Times Sunday edition): The Morality And Effectiveness Of Process Journalism :http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
- Johni Fisher
On the AIR? Lol there's no FCC regulation yet....I'll refrain from scribing the 7 deadlies here
- Kenneth Stein
Looked to me like he was being a jerk and got called on it "what are you going to do about it?" is not the kind of retort that should pass between two adults. That being said, it also looks like Leo has decided to move on so should the rest of us.
- J. Abdul-Qahhar
Vlad: That's true, but he can still encourage them to act more responsibly.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
J Abdul, I think the "what are you going to do about it" was still when Mike thought it was all kind of a joke
- Lise
Scoble, it's not like they but a hundy in the package and say "review away" :-)
- C. Jason Mancebo
Offline mobs hurt more when they hit you with an actual physical object, as opposed to pissy comments variety of assault from dangerous Friendfeed "mobs."
- Christopher A Carr
Ken S, I just fired up the grill. Great day on the coast in HMB today. BBQ and wine happens soon :-)
- C. Jason Mancebo
we all benefit from the work that mike does. tech crunch has been a daily read for me for years... although you may disagree with some of his methods, is wishing him death really appropriate
- Tobias Lewsadder
C. Jason: They don't have to. Just having the thing before everyone else creates an incentive for acting non-ethically. After all, they give you a review unit (even one you need to return) because you gave them a good review might encourage you to keep giving good reviews for the opportunity to play with the latest gadgets first.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Chris: Yes, and I think he should. Let's just keep in mind, those are just random people who he probably never met. And in the case of the irc chat, are mostly anonymous. Which is part of the problem imo.
- Vlad Bobleanta
Tobias, i think we all agree that the backlash has gone to far...yes,
- C. Jason Mancebo
Actually, research idicates that being teased and taunted oftentimes is more painful than being hit.
- Kenneth Stein
Who were these random people anyway? Friendfeed regulars, or blow-ins?
- George Hall (Australia)
I agree, and i think this onslaught has gone on far enough
- Johnathan Schultz
George, I'm sure some were FF regulars. I don't think because you have a FF account it makes you of right mind. heh Unfortunately.
- Lise
Just a computer engineer, patent attorney, developing some tech
- Kenneth Stein
@George Hall: Gillmor Gang regulars.
- 321
"Onslaught?" Please.
- Christopher A Carr
People need to get a tiny bit of perspective instead of social media tunnel vision
- Nathan Cooprider
One thing I would really like to see come from this is that folks like Arrington with the "Not quite so stringent, shoot first retract later" ethics understand that people give a shit about that and it's not cool.
- C. Jason Mancebo
George Hall: mostly non-regulars, or that was my impression at least. But not exclusively. Arrington is easy to hate, that's the truth. And some people just need to hate something. Or someone. That is all.
- Vlad Bobleanta
Its just feels like this has gone a little to far
- Johnathan Schultz
Tobias, but I'm not sure that we wouldn't benefit MORE from TC if it was a bit less "NY POST" ish
- C. Jason Mancebo
The whole evening Gilmore Gang put everything into context. It was really interesting, lots of questions and talking points raised regarding technology reporting, journalistic integrity and consumed content. Even a discussion about the GG show itself. It's unfortunate that a few people ran with the 1 minute clip and formed an opinion without looking at the whole day in context.
- Benjamin Taylor
I want to make a quick statement, because this is how it seems to be framed here for some. Just because we are choosing to criticize him doesn't mean we are part of a mob or are threatening him. The debate should not be framed as Arrington versus bloodsucking Friendfeed mob. There is no defense for threats, online or off. No one is debating that that I have seen.
- Eric @ CS Techcast
@Johnathan Schultz: It has, but what are us bored geeks with too much time on their hands to do?
- 321
jason: agreed
- Tobias Lewsadder
Scoble, pretty great day on the coast for an Arrington discussion, no :-)
- C. Jason Mancebo
I do have to say that this whole incident is the reason I've came over to FF permanently.
- kenneth glenn
Benjamin: agreed. Eric: death threats is a mob in my book. Noone is referring to criticism, but rather to threats and mindless stuff.
- Vlad Bobleanta
If someone has actually threatened his safety, that's one thing, but I must say I found it almost funny that he was so upset over terrifying Friendfeed "mobs."
- Christopher A Carr
anyone know arrington for an extended period of time? has he always been like this?
- Tobias Lewsadder
Vlad, right, death threats are wrong, but that doesn't make me or anyone here criticizing this incident as part of the mob.
- Eric @ CS Techcast
I think that many people just took the opportunity to join in on the "I hate you Arrington" bandwagon when that started yesterday. Today they're all probably busy in Google Reader (even though RSS is apparently dead) reading the latest TechCrunch posts.
- 321
I seem to remember a techcrunch article Mike did weeks back about a different issue...one where he took a principled stand. I wonder if non-regular mob making threats relates more to that than the Gilmour gang thing.
- George Hall (Australia)
We're reaching again. Terrifying mobs? Where did that come from? He was getting abused, wasn't seeing any real poing to sharing stuff here, so he deleted the account. It makes his life easier. We're sorta going off the deep end... once again.
- Ken Sheppardson
@Christopher No one wants to read death threats about themselves. Real or otherwise.
- Glenn Trtanj
bwana: elaborate please
- Tobias Lewsadder
Bwana, absolutely agree...lots of folks obviously tire of it.
- C. Jason Mancebo
i know he has been like this for a while but im askking if this was the type of guy he was before getting into this business or has the business changed him
- Tobias Lewsadder
Ken: This is yet another overreaction, yes. This weekend is really something. However some people do take bad things very personally, and maybe Mike is one of them. Dunno, I haven't met him.
- Vlad Bobleanta
Personally, I think TechCrunch on FriendFeed is better as a room anyway. It enforces the separation between a person and their business. That said, I do hope that Mike comes back, and that everyone behaves civilly when he's around.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Excuse me, but if Arrington didn't say anything that stirred the pot, it'd be boring in here
- George Hall (Australia)
George: Damn right.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
And I would ask, on a different note, if someone called out you're ethics in the work that puts food on your table in front of everyone at your place of work, plus or minus 50,000 people, how would you react? With anger I bet.
- Eric @ CS Techcast
We need something like http://instantrimshot.com that automatically generates FF drama.
- Ken Sheppardson
@George Hall (Australia): Indeed, gives us something to talk about until tomorrow. People just seem to be over analysing all of this.
- 321
Chris, I don't agree with your logic on early access = incentive for ethical problems. Lot's of folks get early stuff. The only issue that I see is lots of FALSE POSITIVE reviews by lot's of up and comers...but not the Leo Laportes of the world.
- C. Jason Mancebo
And for those that want real drama, please refer to the french fry vs onion rings vs tater tots debate: http://ff.im/3H1oA
- Eric @ CS Techcast
If anyone thought Friendfeed was JUST Robert Scoble, they missed half the point. It was equal amounts Scoble AND Arrington. The thrust and parry of the differing viewpoints sometimes.
- George Hall (Australia)
Eric: no. And Leo wouldn't have done it angrily if it wasn't for the feeling that he was being Mike's target. When you get questioned, you keep your cool and explain. Leo said exactly this tonight.
- Vlad Bobleanta
C. Jason: A false positive review IS an ethical violation, BY VIRTUE OF BEING FALSE.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
George, Arrington was really never on Friendfeed. He was not active here.
- Eric @ CS Techcast
His account was.
- George Hall (Australia)
posted some thoughts on this in the longer post here http://friendfeed.com/parisle...
- MG Siegler
and he was a part of Robert'
- George Hall (Australia)
s best posts.
- George Hall (Australia)
Vlad, that is the logical thing to do, but that would not be most people's gut reaction.
- Eric @ CS Techcast
MG: Well played.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
You can't be putting feelings before facts, I like facts.
- Colin
Arrington wasn't sitting around on FF all day, but he was here. There were several comments from him over the past few days.
- Ken Sheppardson
Colin: Sure you can put feelings before facts. If you couldn't, politicians would be out of work. ;)
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Scoble, have you seen MA's comments on TC? He's admitting to saying "We were promised one but it wasn’t delivered" but the comments are targeted at LL, not at Palm. That's completely shit stirring. Just not necessary.
- C. Jason Mancebo
@Lise not really something you say in jest... Those are or (at least were) what the old folks used to call "fighting words" and the only real reason to say them to someone is a) the two people in question are physically separated or b) the one person doesn't think the other is actually going to do any thing.
- J. Abdul-Qahhar
Bwana, I agree, we talk about this and I guess it's proof stirring the pot gets you your celebrity. Next stop, reality show.
- Eric @ CS Techcast
I agree with @Bwana but this happens everytime Mike thinks he's going to read something he doesn't like..just as right before he deleted TC's friendfeed account. We may not know him as a person but his actions have always preceeded him.
- John Blanton
from twhirl
Just talked with Leo. He hadn't realized this was all still cooking, but admits that people have said some really horrid things.
- Robert Scoble
J Abdul, I completely disagree. Of course you can say that in jest. You can even, as Mike assumed, throw F bombs at someone... in jest.
- Lise
Now that he does know, I hope that he'll come out and say something about it, see if he can put the whole matter to rest finally.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
When I called Leo he answered "are you calling me on your Pre?" Ahhh, the fun we have behind the scenes. ;-) (I wasn't, my Pre is charging).
- Robert Scoble
i think leo is focused on wwdc
- Tobias Lewsadder
Robert, you still haven't done anything with that Pre, my god! Aren't you curious to play with it? heh
- Lise
On twit earlier he was laughing and thought it had all blown over
- Jack
Lise: I took some pictures on it today and will do a writeup later.
- Robert Scoble
Jack: yeah. I told him these were aftershocks like what happens after a big earthquake.
- Robert Scoble
i saw that it syncs with itunes... does it sync calendar and address book thru itunes or thru isync?
- Tobias Lewsadder
Anyway, I gotta go, otherwise Maryam is gonna go off on me in public and that won't be fun either. ;-)
- Robert Scoble
Robert - just don't walk off of her show!
- jeneane sessum
Cya Robert!
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Robert, see ya. Can't wait to hear about the Pre!
- Lise
Calacanis made a joke on Twit today when Leo began talking about the Pre, my senses stepped up and became more sensitive for a second there.
- Colin
later scoble
- Tobias Lewsadder
I was hoping he would set the record straight. It's hard to counter a 90 second youtube clip and the hour follow up with Arrington yesterday isn't widely availible.
- Jack
I suspect readers/viewers would have hated the vast majority of reporters from Benjamin Franklin on if they saw the man behind the news then, the way we often can now. Journalism isn't a gentile profession. If you don't want arrogance, then go get your news from a convent. Otherwise, expect and accept that these people are who they are and, for the most part, you get higher quality, more hard hitting news because of it. So appreciate that Arrington is an arrogant ass and leave him alone.
- Dawn
Robert here's the thing .. we're all huge fans of Leo and how can we not have something to say about this for good or for ill?
- John Blanton
from twhirl
Robert's original point was that Arrington copped a tremendous amount of mob attack including threats to Arrington. Sounds interesting for what was essentially a small and resolved issue between him and Leo. I have to wonder if the mob were actually Facebook hategroups pretending to be friendfeeders, since Mike did write an article on Techcrunch about the fact Facebook allows hate groups a say.
- George Hall (Australia)
Gee,that quietened everyone. Is the silence the sound of people thinking?
- George Hall (Australia)
So... how long until we get a Laporte/Christian Bale mashup?
- Jack
I was just thinking about the earthquake analogy...is it a force of nature, if it were not for this thread, would we be talking about this?
- Benjamin Taylor
I think most folks walked away after they realized that Robert actually did go AFK to spend time with his family.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Jack: LOL.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
If your a public figure such as an editor of a magazine, you need thicker skin this. This seems to be a reoccuring thing. People say bad things about him and he goes away. If he didn't want the negative comments or feedback maybe he should stop being such an asshole. He attracts this even when not saying crap about people. He gets what he deserves. Leo gets crap as well and i have not see him leave. He just moves on and tries to prove himself in his work. With respect on top of it all.
- CW™
In real terms, it's Arrington's job to create buzz and pot-stir. So is that a reason for him to get such a mob reaction and threats? No.
- George Hall (Australia)
And if there's one thing that won my respect for him it was that stand he took weeks ago on that Facebook issue.
- George Hall (Australia)
While Arrington might have expected a backlash from Facebook users, here was where he least expected it.
- George Hall (Australia)
Speaking of mob in a gentler way...does everyone HAVE to go quiet when Robert leaves the conversation?
- George Hall (Australia)
angrykeyboarder: why was FF never meant to be used like Robert uses it? He gets some interesting conversation going.
- George Hall (Australia)
Most people are probably here looking for Scoble's attention, and want him to respond to them personally.
- Jack
Robert also feels strongly about what happened to Mike, as for whatever else, they're friends. And he's allowed to defend his friend.
- George Hall (Australia)
angrykeyboarder: Discussion is EXACTLY how FriendFeed is supposed to be used. I don't see a blog post here. I see Robert starting a conversation, and contributing his two cents here and there.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
George, haha I went quiet when Robert left. I just assumed the whole thing would go quiet. Plus, you know Robert can keep a conversation going.
- Lise
+1 Chris.
- George Hall (Australia)
I wonder if Robert hopes we'll keep a thread going without him once in a while.
- George Hall (Australia)
George: LOL, probably.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
George: yes. :-)
- Robert Scoble
LOL
- Lise
If anyone hasn't heard part 2 of the Gillmor Gang it's here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill...
- Jack
Angrykeyboarder: this IS my blog on the topic. :-)
- Robert Scoble
+1 Robert.
- George Hall (Australia)
People who know Mike: Do you think he'll cool down and come back to FriendFeed?
- Bruce Lewis
What a wknd ..sooo strong feelings
- Johni Fisher
I hope Mike DOES come back. I miss his feeds already.
- George Hall (Australia)
I stopped reading TechCrunch some time last year, but started following it on FriendFeed after Mike's month in Hawaii. My impression is that depth/quality has gone up. Not that I did a scientific study or anything.
- Bruce Lewis
Woah, I thought I was going to have to ask the question, but it seems the impression I got is coming out in the end. I felt certain that Leo had learned from the past to recognize the Arrington pattern, and that he saw some familiar threads and immediately kicked the loom out of the weaver's hands. In my reading of past things that don't even involve Leo, Arrington's been a subject of...
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- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
Intellectual or professional disagreement doesn't have to mean personal disagreement. While I'd disagree on some of Mike's points, I have nothing against the man personally. And there's still a fair amount of stuff he's written I DO agree with. The Facebook hate group article for one. That shows Mike has principles.
- George Hall (Australia)
Thanks for that audio link, Jack... and Robert, I haven't blogged much lately either, but I did in this case... without hearing part2 first!
- Richard ¿digame? Walker
People disappoint. I am no fan of Mike Arrington's, but I wish him no ill either. To have even one person wish him cancer or otherwise is just awful. With that said, I no longer buy the "he's a sensitive guy" routine. He's either a tough guy or he's a victim, and the victim seems to emerge when he's wrong. He has the power. He has the attention. He wields it. By his own admission, his...
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- Karoli
I wish him a little bit of ill will. Just minor ill will. Like maybe the apples he selects to be slightly less sweet than he was hoping for, or his timing chain to hop one tooth and make his car ride just a bit rough, or his shoe lace to break when he's tying them.
- Matthew DeVries
lol @Matthew
- Louis Simoneau
Fortunately, wishing cancer on someone is not going to make it happen. I could stand right next to Arrington, shut my eyes really tight and mentally chant "get cancer" for hours, and the only result would be indesputable proof of my utter stupidity. I'd have to laugh at the goofball who expressed such a sentiment. I would expend actual thought processes on the ones who wished for bodily harm, because those folks might bump into Arrington at a floor show or before or after a session at a conference.
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
found this link at the same time I was listening to this: http://bit.ly/2nhNLw via @arrington and Leo afterword. Didn't see the link, apologies if it's already been posted.
- motownmutt
I'm not sure why people hate Mike so personally, it's ok to disagree with him but Mike and TechCrunch seams to have a lot of hate aimed at them for no apparent reason.
- DarknessFalls
motownmutt: thats a direct link to the second part of the show. It's from the "bootleg" feed (read:only feed) which includes the first part of the show, as well as last weeks show, and older shows: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill...
- Jack
Actually, it's already resolved between Leo and Mike anyway. And that's really where it should have stayed anyway. Resolved between those concerned. Doesn't need mob commentary afterwards, doesn't need threats to Mike, doesn't need the bullsh**.
- George Hall (Australia)
I've been hiding all of these entries about Mike and Leo. I decided to read yours Robert because I know you. Here are some of my thoughts. First, I don't know either Mike or Leo and have never been influenced by either one of them. Second, I love listening to Leo's shows but cannot stand TechCrunch and the attitudes on that site. Third, Mike was the first (and only) person I...
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- LPH™ and his dog P™
@DarknessFalls, I think it was said that some people hold Arrington responsible for the failures of their ventures. He gives his opinion, & people listen (I think). If someone's project didn't make sense to Arrrington, and he said as much, it could hurt. Could the people in this flap be a different group? I hope so. @LPH: Interesting take you have there. You're saying the very post that I thought allowed Arrington and Leo to patch things up actually caused his problem with those who weren't involved?
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
LPH: Actually, Mike contributed in other ways. With the things he'd say to Robert, he'd get some real discussion moving anyway. And I liked his feed. Some of the best things I "liked" were Arrington's feed items. Mike didn't contribute? You mustn't have been paying attention. I'm sure Robert can tell you how Mike contributed in quieter, less noticeable ways to the discussions and other things.
- George Hall (Australia)
I don't think channeling through Scoble is actually contributing...maybe that's just me.
- Bwana ☠
BoringMage: Some people holding it against Arrington for pointing out major flaws in their products meant their products were flawed. People like Arrington voicing concerns can help them improve or come out with better. Sometimes a harsh critic can be your best friend. If what he says helps you come out with better. In which case, I think Mike was still in the right to voice concerns.
- George Hall (Australia)
Palm, at the moment, really needs to have the Pre being a hit. But there's some design flaws in the hardware they're going to need to correct fast. That's a valid point. Otherwise I can see them being sued for having edges on the phone so sharp people can injure themselves.
- George Hall (Australia)
I would like to know, in 100% honesty, how many people heard part 2 before commenting, including the apology? I admit - I did not hear it until a few minutes ago. Anyone want to chime in?
- Liza
Bwana: sometimes, the greatest contributor is the one who sets things up for someone to kick a goal.
- George Hall (Australia)
And, when Scoble's back in this discussion, I'm sure he'll tell people how much Arrington DID contribute in a quiet way.
- George Hall (Australia)
@GeorgeH: I think what you said is exactly what the person who said Arrington was blamed for others' lack of success was trying to convey. Since I haven't done anything worthy of Arrington's notice, I wouldn't be trying to lay any blame at his feet, nor would I criticize him for pointing out problems, at least not if he let the organization know and gave the organizers a chance to address those concerns. @Liza: I listened to both and read the TC post yesterday.
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
Not sure what the big deal is on the TC FF account really is. Seemed like nothing but the TC RSS feed being piped into FF for likes and comments.
- Rolf Schewe
Two ways to look at how a tech blog criticizing your product affects you. On a non-personal way, they show you you have a flaw. Whether privately telling you or publicly telling you, they're making you aware of it. If you take it personally, you don't improve your product, you just lash out at the messenger.
- George Hall (Australia)
People from all types of disciplines follow the Tech Industry. Tech Industry Reviewers become brands that often influence our decisions as trending consumers to become early adopters of new products and services. The most popular brands will always receive benefits from the companies such as freebies, pre-release models, and exclusive (or first opportunity) interviews. The public...
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- thestaticfrost
Thanks for answering my question @boringmage - I was not sure what to think but wanted to see others' rationale, so I followed the stream. I had seen so much noise about it but not the audio part 2. This reshapes the reasoning.
- Liza
George: he sure participated more here than Kara Swisher or Walt Mossberg. At some level, though, friendfeed is an aggregator and people deserve participation credit just for putting their feed in here.
- Robert Scoble
At the moment I don't get paid for doing a tech review on my own blog. I simply look at the fact it does help if I've used or played with the thing I review. For the most part, I'll point out its good features. But where it has areas to improve, I'll also point those out, too. But someone feels they're going to complain because I point out one or two areas need something a tad better????
- George Hall (Australia)
Thanks for validating how much Mike did contribute, Robert.
- George Hall (Australia)
The other part of this whole thing that bothers me is how Steve has been characterized as this guy who doesn't care about his listeners. If he didn't care about his listeners, he'd produce a show just like every other show out there. Instead he chooses to focus on what he views as important for his listeners to hear. He's been right far more often than he's been wrong, by the way.
- Karoli
Geez, wonder if mainstream media ever gets this much discussion these days as much as this one show did.
- George Hall (Australia)
If comments in here were ratings, the Gilmore Gang would be a number one show.
- George Hall (Australia)
Perhaps it's time to get Gilmore Gang on a mainstream media channel...
- George Hall (Australia)
George: Mainstream Media talks this way about themselves so they can justify their existence.
- Owen Greaves
Why can't we have a rating system? I think we need a web rating system that encompasses comments too....
- Sid Burgess
Liza, I heard most of the post drama drama today on live.twit.tv on a repeat. Gilmore certainly was upset as well. Seemed to take the whole thing pretty personally as well. Not sure how that has turned out.
- Eric @ CS Techcast
Sid: I would love an Internet-wide identity system. But that is really hard to do and get everyone to participate in.
- Robert Scoble
Wait. Why is this interesting?
- l0ckergn0me
Well, that crack that whip Scoble! :D Actually, I think it would have some self-momentum... people want ratings, advertisers want value... hmmm?
- Sid Burgess
He deleted the account because he can't control the conversation.
- Jim Posner
Man Google Wave would be so handy right now in a thread like this!
- Sid Burgess
Oh no; then you'd see my spelling mistakes in realtime
- Jack
;) @jack
- Sid Burgess
@l0ckergn0me: I'm hoping to learn something so I can be half as big as you one day and not make the same mistakes that others make so publicly for me. So if I have something wrong, by all means correct me! [edit: I know you like helping people; help me! ;) ]
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
As an pretty unbiased 3rd party, I am wondering why so few responded to listening to part 2 on audio. I know I am not 'relevant' to the crew, but it is a fair question. - AND re: why is it interesting - EXACTLY, it is not interesting except that so many are interested, so as a curious person, I want to understand it.
- Liza
Gee, imagine doing any reviews or critiques of any product if you felt constrained for pointing out it had a flaw or if you saw products to review given ONLY to those writing JUST good things.
- George Hall (Australia)
Liza: the problem is the youtube video is 90 seconds long and the part 2 is over 1 hour
- Jack
people dont have the patience to sit through that. Compare 112 thousand views, to 2 thousand clicks (so far) on the bit.ly link: http://bit.ly/info/2nhNLw
- Jack
Jack - fair enough, but this is a 4 HOUR STREAM -and for some really strong opinions, if I were an "influencer", I sure would not say something w/o doing my research
- Liza
That's exactly the problem here. Both you and I wouldn't give our opinions without the full picture. But the so called "influencers" just mouth off without doing the proper research, like the "problem" with blogging where unsubstantiated claims and heresay is published.
- Jack
Is that like what M.A. does frequently?
- C. Jason Mancebo
Actually, I think Arrington does do his research.
- George Hall (Australia)
Michael does fact-check or tells people it is unconfirmed in the post, generally.
- Neal Jansons
from IM
That wasn't directed at Mike at all, he's an excellent blogger
- Jack
+1 Jack. Mike does excellent blogs
- George Hall (Australia)
George, I have to disagree. He's much more of a shoot from the hip and retract later if I get called on it type of guy. Tthe truth or the facts are good, but only if it's interesting and gets him some buzz.
- C. Jason Mancebo
Perhaps it's more like being accused of rape then vindicated, people wil only remember the more sensational story.
- Jack
Not directed at Michael or anyone in particular. I asked a simple question, who listened to part 2 audio and few answered. Not directed at anyone.
- Liza
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, it was interesting to hear Leo realize what the Gillmor Gang is really about in this second part: I always had the impression, especially after yesterday's second part, that Leo had never heard the show before letting it on his network. "Oh right you chat with Scoble, Calacanis, Arrington, Doc Searls et al, sounds good I'll host it"; unaware of the drama that occurs. Thoughts?
- Jack
Liza, I think it might be a little late to expect a flood of comments. This is natural around here.
- Eric @ CS Techcast
Who says geeks and nerds are dull?
- George Hall (Australia)
Those who are not geeks/nerds :)
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
@Jack: At first I couldn't figure out where you got that impression, but now I wonder if you're talking about the part where Leo was (if I recall correctly) saying to Steve that he got the impression that what was happening in the show wasn't what Steve wanted happening in the show, and when he was asking him what he wanted to do about it (with someone saying it doesn't have to be discussed right there in public). Is that what you're referring to?
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
If I had already been physically assaulted (spit on), had my family threatened, and then had a mob of people come after me online - deleting an account on a social network probably would be a quick decision.
- Matthew McCowan
I mean that Leo was expressing his concern over the high amounts of drama on the show, which he disliked and thinks can be advoided, to which Steve and Robert explained was inevitable and part of the show.
- Jack
I need to go listen more, methinks. Just not tonight. Gotta be at work in 8 hours. I can seriously understand not expecting drama, though.
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
I predict GG moves over to Mahalo.
- Jim Posner
Oh, wait, I forgot that screaming, mean vlogger guy is on that show; of COURSE there will be drama!
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
Jim: that actually seems like a good fit for the show. i personally think steve should find a way to host it so he can have full control.
- Tobias Lewsadder
Could also be an interesting get for B43.
- Jim Posner
Reminds me how silky things can get over objects/tech. In Australia you can get fist fights over Ford and Holden (GM)
- George Hall (Australia)
from BuddyFeed
The show has been very different since it came to Twit. Much more tamed down. This week was almost a return to form, except that Leo ended the show. One of my favourite pre twit shows was when all the other hosts were laying into Scoble for wasting a year of his life on Friendfeed. He was right in the end of course, but the confict that sparks heated debates is why I started listening to the show.
- Jack
Guess it's never boring, then.
- George Hall (Australia)
It's a shame he felt he needed to. It's a bad decision which is an unfortunate one.
- James Stratford
I'm glad he is gone. But maybe he just makes a little fuss and opens up a new account in several weeks. Would be too good to be true. Leo has hit the right point. It's so true. Techcrunch is a piece of crap like Arrington. Only bashing other people and their ideas, A troll with a lot of "followers", that's all, and Techcrunch is a troll site to just serve the Troll in us. If Techcrunch...
more...
- Ryo / Fuck Facebook
Robert I got to agree w/you on Techcruch. Did u read about: TechCrunch's Notes | The Morality And Effectiveness Of Process Journalism http://ff.im/3HS0e
- polou/indigo_bow
Ryo: A few months down the track you'll probably be playing with a crunchpad. And you'll be thinking it a nice piece of tech...but are you going to throw it away when you realize Arrington's associated with it? There are trolls and there are trolls. I don't think Arrington was a troll. Pot-stirrer yes. Troll no.
- George Hall (Australia)
Ryo: I totally disagree with you. Techcrunch has helped many many companies launch and provides a valuable service in getting lots of people to pay attention to the tech industry. Arrington is far far from a troll. Is he a jerk sometimes? Yes. But just being hard to live with does NOT make one a troll and neither does bringing up a good argument once in a while. But to try to claim that that's all Techcrunch does is simply false and I won't let it stand in the comment thread that I started.
- Robert Scoble
Makes me wonder if Ryo knows who defaced Arrington's wikipedia page...
- George Hall (Australia)
the ip addresses are there in the history George
- Chris Heath
Hope Wikipedia rectifies it.
- George Hall (Australia)
Arrington really opened up a lot in that conversation with Leo. I think his explanations there really explained a lot on why he has to wear a thick skin and act the way others perceive at times. The way he manned up and apologized to Leo I think was very impressive. I will forever see him in different eyes now - I really respect Arrington since yesterday.
- Jesse Stay
And Robert, have you consoled Tina yet? she seemed pretty down in here recent tweet: http://friendfeed.com/tinagil...
- Chris Heath
Jesse, me too
- Chris Heath
There's a few of us who have a lot of respect for Arrington and his principles.
- George Hall (Australia)
George, a few million you mean, right?
- Chris Heath
Robert: If Mike Arrington feels THAT strong about 'the mob' - why didn't he delete his Twitter feed too? Could it be the hundreds of thousands of followers he has been 'gifted' because of his 'special relationship' with the Twitter guys?
- Jim Connolly
That too, Chris. You probably have a better idea than me of exact numbers.
- George Hall (Australia)
George, definitely I'm never going to use a Crunchpad. I don't buy products were assholes like him are involved, sorry. Leo hits the spot. And I guess there are another million you hates Arrington even more than me, I don't even care about a Wikipage of him. It should be marked for deletion, that's all.
- Ryo / Fuck Facebook
It's sad too that all this fuss over a mere misunderstanding in a show gets so out of hand, because it affects the families, too. Sad because it's sorted out between Mike and Leo, but a whole bunch of people outside of it take things too far. Seriously, nobody had any right to make threats to Mike.
- George Hall (Australia)
I just hope everyone can forgive and can move on with good stories and news.
- Darren Lowery
Ryo: That's you. Me, I'm itching to own a crunchpad.
- George Hall (Australia)
The Tech News Blog (when do we get to know your real name?) I'm sure he looked at the results he was getting, and I'm 100% sure he was seeing night and day results better on Twitter than FriendFeed. I'm sure he weighed his losses, and FriendFeed wasn't worth the negative brand image when compared to the traffic he was getting. Mike's a business man - I highly doubt it was anything personal.
- Jesse Stay
Robert, I respect your opinion. Nonetheless, he destroyed many newcomers, too. Remember when he was spit in the face in a conference with entrepreneurs. It seems that this was one of them. Further he insulted whole Europe and bashes Google continuously. If Arrington is no Troll, there is no Troll anyway. The fact that he is "well-known" doesn't make something other out of him.
- Ryo / Fuck Facebook
I really cannot understand all this vehemence against Arrington. Neither can Robert, either, nor a fair few Friendfeed regulars. And Ryo, I really do not understand where your vehemence towards him comes from.
- George Hall (Australia)
Jesse: My name only changed here a few days ago, it's Jim Connolly - full contact details here http://jimsmarketingblog.com/contact... FriendFeed has not given Arrington a negative brand image - he did.
- Jim Connolly
George, I read some of his articles. That's why.
- Ryo / Fuck Facebook
Ryo, to understand him I think you really have to put yourself in his shoes. He's had a whole lot of people be jerks to him. I'm sure that would get to you.
- Jesse Stay
Jesse: So, if he's so worried about what the mob are saying about his brand, why isn't he worried about his brand on Twitter?
- Jim Connolly
Guess you didn't read the right articles, Ryo.
- George Hall (Australia)
Jesse, you get what you give. If he would not act like a complete asshole, maybe he would not be hated so much.
- Ryo / Fuck Facebook
Jim, I'm sure he couldn't afford to lose Twitter - that's my guess. FriendFeed I doubt was doing much for him, at least in his eyes.
- Jesse Stay
Ryo, would I be an asshole for having something against hate groups? And if I did, would you still be saying it's my fault for *insert whichever reason*?
- George Hall (Australia)
Jesse: I have no problem with him leaving FriendFeed, I just call bullshit on him suggesting it was the mob that drove him out. If it was the mob, he would have left Twitter, where they are REALLY attacking the guy. For the record, as a Tech News blogger myself, I have a lot of respect for what he has achieved.
- Jim Connolly
Many people on the Interwebs are idiots--just look at nearly any YouTube comment! I'm not sure I buy that Arrington is that sensitive about how people have reacted--he's an Internet professional and he more than anyone should understand these outrageous, hate-filled comments are just a bunch of blowhard a-holes. That being said, Arrington had an opportunity to stop Leo and clear the...
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- Paul Salzman
Paul: I know Mike and talked with him at length this morning, both on phone and face to face. He's actually pretty sensitive, but puts on a tough face. It's an interesting part of his personality to see.
- Robert Scoble
Ryo: do you buy Apple products? Jobs is a bigger jerk than I've seen Arrington ever be. Ryo: name one newcomer Arrington destroyed. Just one. I'd love to hear his/her story.
- Robert Scoble
The Tech News Blog: good point about Twitter. I think Arrington likes that he has half a million followers there while me and Leo have been kicking his ass here on friendfeed (I was kicking his ass on Twitter too, before Twitter added him to the recommended follower list, which zoomed him above me and Leo).
- Robert Scoble
TechCrunch leaving Friendfeed is sad, because even when we disagree with each other, it is nice to have a discussion going.
- Mike Chelen
Robert: I know about you and Leo kicking is butt on Twitter before the recommended list started. (I have been chatting with you on Twitter for well over a year now!)
- Jim Connolly
Robert: Re Twitter followers, seen this from earlier: http://www.thetechnewsblog.com/2009...
- Jim Connolly
Robert, No I don't buy Apple products lately. I did in the past. It's not easy to determine how many or who exactly was affected by his bitching, which leads to investors pulling out, or banks don't give money. Actually this guy in Europe was one, but I don't know his name. I think he won't tell us, because he fear legal problems. But you know, if you have such an influence, you have power. If you act like Arrington with this power, it's just irresponsible.
- Ryo / Fuck Facebook
On Twitter Mike's personal account http://twitter.com/arrington has a mere 5 thousand followers, it is the TC account with 680 thousand, whilst on FF he had his personal twitter as well as TC feeding in. See the google cache here: http://209.85.229.132/search...
- Jack
The Tech News Blog: engagement levels on Twitter are interesting, agreed. I've seen the bot behavior too. Twitter's team seems unconcerned. Ryo: it's bullshit to say you were destroyed by TechCrunch. If anything getting Arrington to say negative things about you focuses the world's attention on you and people (especially his competitors) rush to check out whether or not he's correct. If he wasn't right, that guy would have gained even more followers.
- Robert Scoble
Jack: the TC account used to be Mike's personal Twitter account before that account got added to the recommended follower list. Now he's used that just to stream TC links. He used to have conversations with lots of us on Twitter in the old days using that account.
- Robert Scoble
It's ironic, though, that getting half a million people to follow you means you can't even get 10,000 people to follow your other account. The engagement isn't there. Getting engagement is much more difficult than most people understand.
- Robert Scoble
Ryo, have you ever considered that the example you've just quoted probably didn't have a great product to begin with, or may have had stuff that really needed more work? If the product's good, no blogger with influence would really affect things. But if he points out a potential product needs major work or is complete crap, go get the product right and stop blaming messengers like Arrington.
- George Hall (Australia)
George: exactly right. I totally bashed Amazon's first Kindle. it still sold very well because it did have real value (it just was designed poorly). The Amazon team was never as nice to me after that, but I know people who bought it after watching my review and deciding I was wrong about the device, so in the end, I'm pretty sure I helped them out more than I hurt them. A great product withstands all criticism.
- Robert Scoble
Exactly, Robert.
- George Hall (Australia)
Sorry, just listening to TWiT now :) Leo makes fun of his outbreak... Can be another "Damn you..." replacement... Screw you :)
- Ryo / Fuck Facebook
I'm going to have to take issue with you there Robert. Respected reviewers CAN affect the success of a product. That's why we must demand that they review ethically and thoughtfully.
- invariant - farewell FF
Ryo, sounds like you didn't hear the aftermath gillmor gang session on saturday http://ia311238.us.archive.org/3...
- Chris Heath
Don't forget about the first part: http://www.archive.org/downloa... Mike spoke very kindly about Rajeev Motwani before the shouting began.
- Jack
Chris, why do you keep saying this? It doesn't matter. He said what he said, and it was serious. What do you want to suggest with this? That Leo didn't meant it? He meant it! And he was damned right.
- Ryo / Fuck Facebook
Friendfeed is better than Twitter, yet he wants to stay with Twitter, COZ its driving traffic to his blog and nothing else
- Michael_techie
invariant: we can have some impact, yes, but if only one person is picking on something and is picking on something wrongly it can often have the opposite effect. A good product WILL stand up to Mike Arrington or anyone else for that matter.
- Robert Scoble
well what he said after in the second session was serious too - and he claims the pre stuff was in jest and misunderstood
- Chris Heath
Chris: he didn't quite say "in jest" but that he was trying to point out that Palm sends review units to those who have given Palm a good set of PR over the last few months. He might actually have a point there but that point was lost both because Arrington started pushing Leo's buttons and because Leo responded to that with an outburst that I haven't seen Leo do ever (and I've been following Leo since the mid 1990s).
- Robert Scoble
right robert... but the 'what are you gonna do about it?' he claims was in jest
- Chris Heath
Chris: yeah. That's just Mike being Mike. He does the same thing with me to try to push my buttons. Sometimes he succeeds with me too. ;-)
- Robert Scoble
and robert... one question about the PR stuff... isn't it fully in Palm's rights and best interests to give out review units as they see fit? isn't that the point of PR? to get the review units out to those you think will give the best reviews?
- Chris Heath
Robert, I don't know about that. Something from a company like Amazon, sure. They have the muscle to keep it going. But something from a startup running on a shoestring? A bad review from the right person could kill it. Look at what Engadget/Gizmodo (I can't remember which) did to the Folio - a product that was a netbook a year or so before the Eee PC.
- invariant - farewell FF
Chris: yes. And that's why the practice is a little dirty.
- Robert Scoble
but isn't that to be expected as core part of what PR is?
- Chris Heath
invariant: any company that has all of its hopes hinged on one review is a company that's setup to fail. When I bring out a product I'll assume I'm going to get bad reviews. In fact, that's what I'm expecting with building43. If someone bashes it it won't stop me. I'll learn from it and move on and make it better.
- Robert Scoble
Yeah, but the Folio wasn't quite the EEEPC...it was just an oversized Palm Pilot. Not even with an adequate OS for the size of the thing.
- George Hall (Australia)
kind of like the old saying don't hate the player, hate the game?
- Chris Heath
Chris: I have come to hate a lot of what PR does. The good ones are very helpful and fair to all comers.
- Robert Scoble
But the bad ones...
- Robert Scoble
right robert, and if what you're selling is truly good then the product/service doesn't need PR then right?
- Chris Heath
George: regarding the Folio: exactly. Bad products can't overcome bad reviews.
- Robert Scoble
I still think if a review kills anything, the product wasn't right to begin with. And I know that from my cartooning experience over twenty years ago. Critics are harshest when something's clearly crap. You just can't afford to be precious about a creation that's crap. You take the criticism the proper way and go do a better product.
- George Hall (Australia)
Ryo seems to be hating the player and the messenger. Wonder if we should ask why.
- George Hall (Australia)
Chris: if something really is great PR should only need to facilitate the press seeing it, finding that out, and holding it. I loved the Palm Pre as soon as I saw it on screen and nothing has changed my mind about that since. No PR person needed to give me one. Although the fact that they did made it easier to form an even deeper opinion that it's great.
- Robert Scoble
Yikes!
- Fred Davis
George: remember, I've been at the harsh end of Arrington's stick. You should go read what he said about PodTech. What he said stung and hurt but it was right and the company wasn't going in a good direction. Arrington just helped everyone's attention focus on that. Could we have pulled it out without that attention? Maybe, but I doubt it in hind site.
- Robert Scoble
Palm still need to do something about the sharp edges, though
- George Hall (Australia)
night everyone... cy'all later
- Chris Heath
Are you saying it's impossible for a great product to fail due to negative publicity? Color me incredulous.
- invariant - farewell FF
George: I'm playing with a Pre right now and I don't think the edges are overly sharp. If they did something about them it would pronounce the gaps where the phone slides together.
- Robert Scoble
invariant: name a great product that failed due to negative publicity and let's talk.
- Robert Scoble
Sometimes even if an idea is ours, it might need work...or it might be crap. Sometimes it's good someone points that out to us. I don't mind a good critic. They're great for getting your idea more focused and improved.
- George Hall (Australia)
Robert: was watching a review that showed the edges when opened are sharp enough to cut cheese.
- George Hall (Australia)
George: must be really soft cheese. Geesh.
- Robert Scoble
Lol
- George Hall (Australia)
I mean, can't we all just get along? But then again, I do remember learning as a journalist that controversy sells... even if it does come at a price...
- Fred Davis
Exactly, Fred. Heck, a bit of negative publicity actually sells more things...
- George Hall (Australia)
George: even there, though, if I read that review that the Palm Pre had sharp edges, all it would make me do is go and hold one and see if they bugged me. If they did, I'd get an iPhone or a Blackberry. If not, well, sold! If that's the worst thing they can say about the Palm Pre, it's actually doing pretty damn well! On the other hand, now I'm going down to the kitchen to see if mine will cut cheese. Heheh.
- Robert Scoble
LOL. Palm Pre as cheese knife...now there's a hitherto-unknown use for it.
- George Hall (Australia)
Heck,most of us here WANT to see the Palm Pre do well...and Palm themselves. But we'd all like to hope they do listen when some of us do point out where it needs a fine-tune.
- George Hall (Australia)
George, well that's my opinion. You have to live with it. What is your problem? Are you an Arrignton Fan-Kiddie? Do you want to start a business soon and need to crawl up his ass for getting a good review? Maybe we should ask why you trying so hard to defend him, and trying to discredit me for having an opinion?
- Ryo / Fuck Facebook
Palm Brie?
- Mel Buckpitt
Hmmm....Ryo...you can put NO to most of your questions. I just dislike when someone makes a personal attack on a guy for doing his job. Or when he's blamed for some person's misperception of how much influence he has over whether a product sells or not.
- George Hall (Australia)
Ryo: interesting that you use the same tactics that Arrington used with Leo. That's sorta weird.
- Robert Scoble
I still maintain that the Folio was one of those products. It was a netbook before we even knew what to call them, and it was killed before it was even released by a web site that couldn't imagine the utility of a small, low cost portable. It may have had flaws, but so did the first Eee PC. Who knows what it could have become?
- invariant - farewell FF
Yeah, Robert, but we at least knew where Arrington was coming from.
- George Hall (Australia)
invariant: the eeepc had a linux/unix operating system with a fair amount of useability. The Folio was, to all intents and purposes, just a larger Palm. Huge difference. And at the time it was brought out, Palm OS was a bit limited.
- George Hall (Australia)
invariant: well, maybe they shouldn't have shown it to Engadget first. There's lots of others who would have been able to push it along. But some products are simply before their times. Folio didn't excite me and I saw it. I agree with George. Failed OS. Heck, even Palm has given up on that OS.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, George did use that on me, when he replied this: "Ryo seems to be hating the player and the messenger. Wonder if we should ask why." - I'm playing back. And my "buttons" are getting pushed very easily. Please, Robert read ALL the comments before making a conclusion
- Ryo / Fuck Facebook
That's not true George. It was based on a linux os just like the Eee.
- invariant - farewell FF
Ryo, your comments on Arrington have been accusing him of being a troll. To me, that's treating Arrington a little too personal.
- George Hall (Australia)
Ryo: I read all comments and seems to me you're doing the same thing as Arrington.
- Robert Scoble
I agree that spiteful comments are not the best way, but at the same time, Mike Arrington really shouldn't have jumped on such a bandwagon. At any rate, I hope that things douse soon!!
- Guru Panguji
Actually, Ryo, your comments about Arrington sound very hateful.
- George Hall (Australia)
Robert, I'm not. I'm just reacting. George did. But anyways, George, they are. He better not crosses my way in real life ever.
- Ryo / Fuck Facebook
Hmmm...Ryo...pick a number and join the queue.
- George Hall (Australia)
I can imagine, I'm not the only one :)
- Ryo / Fuck Facebook
Ryo, I've been threatened by experts on occasion. I note you don't seem to have any Facebook. Interesting ommision from your list of web/social media concerns.
- George Hall (Australia)
I hope you did understand that right. I meant Arrington. He better not crosses my way. It wasn't meant to your address. We are just discussing, that's all.
- Ryo / Fuck Facebook
You could defend anything the same way. "Well, it got bad reviews because it was a bad product." But to say that reviews have no effect on the success of a product is mind-boggling to me. Why is there an entire industry based on reviewing products if those reviews have no impact on the product's success?
- invariant - farewell FF
Good products improve after a bad review.
- George Hall (Australia)
George - Or maybe the company's backers lose faith and pull their funding, drowning the baby before it has a chance to grow up.
- invariant - farewell FF
One thing is for sure: If you have the power to help with your reviews, you have the power to harm with your reviews. Good products have always been suffered from bad reviews. Reviewing like he does is a personal opinion. But if you have such a power on your hand you need to choose your words wisely. You can not act like you are talking in a pub.
- Ryo / Fuck Facebook
if the backers do that, then they don't think the product's worth going with. Whereas a good product won't lose backers.
- George Hall (Australia)
Ryo: name one great product that was kept down by a bad review. Almost every great product has gotten a bad review.
- Robert Scoble
Anyway, I'm outta here. Ryo: you can have the last word. It seems you're just pushing my buttons and I have an Apple thread to attend to. Heheh.
- Robert Scoble
George, you have a very altruistic view of business. Products get killed all the time for reasons that have nothing to do with how good they are. We'd all be playing games on the Sega Dreamcast II if that weren't the case.
- invariant - farewell FF
Admittedly, invariant. Guess I'm still a fan of honest business.
- George Hall (Australia)
I seem to remember someone making a mint out of a crap operating system...
- George Hall (Australia)
...but by the same token, over the long term, a great product fights back.
- George Hall (Australia)
Well take the Dreamcast for example: If Sega would have had more capital they could have kept that business going and potentially been successful, but they just ran out of money. Had nothing to do with the product itself, it had more to do with the business model (i.e. losing money on every console sold).
- invariant - farewell FF
And also because another business (Electronic Arts) decided not to support it.
- invariant - farewell FF
I think, Invariant, you've pointed out it has less to do with reviews. Bad product OR bad business model. Too easy to fail. Less to do with the review or the reviewer.
- George Hall (Australia)
And still no reason to have personal gripes against the reviewer
- George Hall (Australia)
George, absolutely. The Dreamcast example was one of a good product that failed, not because of reviews but because of other outside factors. The point is that the good guys do not always win. Reviewers should respect their power and be ethical when they review a product. That's my only point.
- invariant - farewell FF
It's just trying to make someone like Arrington a scapegoat for a product
- George Hall (Australia)
's troubles.
- George Hall (Australia)
Whoa, that's not what I was trying to do at all.
- invariant - farewell FF
Of course, a product maker should always expect a review may not always go the way they want...
- George Hall (Australia)
Regardless of anything Mike's done in the past to piss people off, I felt bad when I read the update on his post. It's really seemed like he was shook up from the comments he received. Considering the nature of them, I can't blame him. This might seem trivial, but it’s obvious that he was worried or he would have taken the time to correct the punctuation in his update. From my perspective, he’s comes across like an extremely sensitive guy, who has a few issues to deal with, just like the rest of us.
- Michael Fidler
I'm just pointing out that reviewers DO have power, and that power can both positively impact or negatively impact the success of a product. As a maker of video games I have direct experience with that.
- invariant - farewell FF
I doubt he will do it, but he needs to make more time for himself. If he does, I’m sure he would be a lot less abrasive and a lot happier too. You work equally hard Robert, but you love what you do, and it shows. Does Mike love what he’s does, or is it just work for him now?
- Michael Fidler
I don't think Arrington expected to see people behave with such bile and vehemence over such an issue. And of course that would upset him. And it upsets Robert, too, because Robert is still his friend, even if he and Mike occasionally have an intellectual disagreement.
- George Hall (Australia)
To be clear I have NO opinion on Mike or the work he does. I assume he's an ethical reviewer and I haven't heard otherwise. I just wanted to address Robert's notion that a good product will succeed despite reviews. I simply do not believe that's true 100% of the time.
- invariant - farewell FF
Heck, a few weeks back, Arrington and Techcrunch were the only ones who could tell me why Friendfeed was down for a few hours. Google couldn't. Not many other tech blogs could either. And I was glad he helped us stay informed on that situation.
- George Hall (Australia)
I feel like a heel for not understanding the true nature of this thread before jumping in. Let me say this in response to the REAL discussion in this thread: people should be ashamed for attacking Mike over something that was obviously a misunderstanding between himself and Leo. I hope Mike shrugs this off and continues to do just what he does now.
- invariant - farewell FF
Gillmor Gang is back on itunes! http://itunes.apple.com/WebObje...
- Jack
Jack, glad to see it on iTunes. looks like NewsGang live is toast. I am so bummed. I'm going to bed. :(
- Karoli
Or search "Gillmor Gang" in itunes and it's the one marked "Explicit"
- Jack
It looks like some of the latest Gillmor Gangs, the ones that were only released live, are now available on iTunes.
- Diego Barros
Looking forward to listening to these.
- Diego Barros
Me too, not sure why the new feed though. The old feed is just sitting there doing nothing.
- Matt Thompson
Matt, maybe the new feed's because the audio files (and feed) were living on TechCrunch's servers? Since gillmorgang.techcrunch.com is also gone? Not sure.
- Diego Barros
Leo is the holy Grail of tech for generations, to imply that he is even remotely dishonest is the same as calling all his fans dishonest and stupid, I admit I stopped following Techcrunch because of this incident, but I am not hating on Mike, I understand the jealous inner child in him made him say what he did, we all say bad things and a lynch mob is a little too far in this case.
- URLREVIEWS
I think Leo was feeling bad enough for accepting a test unit and Mike's words just sent him over the edge, Leo is honest all the way, anyone who listen to his techguy show knows that, the guy even suggest free alternatives to some of his sponsors, how fan dedicated is that? Leo is Legend.
- URLREVIEWS
It all comes down to comments, doesn't it? 1. Long comment threads on Friendfeed are a nightmare to read, especially on a handheld. Can somebody add a threading facility? 2. Anonymous on the internet needs to end. http://twittercism.com/anonymi... It's a poison, and it's the real story behind the Arrington/Laporte spat.
- Shéa Bennett
I think the comments went way overboard in their criticism of Arrington. The angle he was approaching his questioning from (that Palm were withholding review units) was legit. Just a shame that there was a misunderstanding on Leos part to interpret it as a question of his integrity.
- Jamie
The world is a hurting place and we find it much easier to attack others out of our own pain and dysfunction. Both people were sincere in their position, this example shows you how easy it is to be offended on both sides of the argument just by simply having a different perspective. It does appear Mike was questioning Leo's integrity even though the question was sincere in light of the story Mike was working on. I think we can move on and focus on more important issues.
- Owen Greaves
Bloggers must go where the conversation is. TechCrunch is not real time. He'll be back.
- Garin Kilpatrick
Maybe he will, maybe he won't but if he does, there's certainly no reason for anyone to smug and high horsey about it. We were the asshole on this matter, not him - and a strategic withdrawal from the forum was certainly warranted on his part temporary or permanent.
- Matthew DeVries
Garin: I think Mike will come to regret deleting his account, just like Leo came to regret deleting his Twitter account.
- Robert Scoble
He can always open a new one.
- Amit Morson
Matthew: if I ever get to that point where I get tired of dealing with everyone here, I'll just go private. That way if I want to jump back in at a future date I'll still have my account here. I think Mike made a mistake in just deleting his account. Amit: he could, but someone already took the techcrunch URL. For a business to give that up seems to be not smart, but that's just me.
- Robert Scoble
A few weeks ago I almost deleted my Twitter account and I'm glad I didn't for just that reason.
- Robert Scoble
Robert - I am glad you didn't delete your twitter account ;) Just keep watering the FF garden instead !
- Susan Beebe
Robert - I'm not saying I condone his decision/action, just that I understand it. I'm sure if he were interested in reactivating/undeleting comments Paul et al would figure out a way to make it happen for him. Just that a barrier to his return is the potential for "told you you'd be back" smugness which is entirely unwarranted, and honestly prickish.
- Matthew DeVries
Robert, he doesn't have to deal with everyone. There is no need to respond to each and every bad comment made at him.
- Amit Morson
Robert: Mike may have lost 600 comments on TechCrunch but this thread already has 760 comments which makes it #1 on best of week, and we're all talking about TechCrunch. I'm impressed. Mike has already won from this move.
- Garin Kilpatrick
Garin, considering his loses and TechCrunch scale, I can't see that as a win.
- Amit Morson
Arrington has never liked FF, anyway. And what has being here done for him or Techcrunch? Has it increased his brand awareness, made him more money, got him laid? How can it be a loss when it's never been a gain?
- Dawn
Amit: The comments Mike lost were stale, this is fresh and undoubtedly building awareness about Mike and TC. The only way Mike has lost is by dropping friendfeed, but at least he has done so in style. Even here he has not lost because as I said before: he'll be back.
- Garin Kilpatrick
He lost his brand name, though I'm sure he can claim it back with FF.
- Amit Morson
The TechCrunch brand is growing because of Mike's cunning use and abuse of FF.
- Garin Kilpatrick
The TechCrunch brand is growing because of Mike's cunning use and abuse of <strike>FF</strike> all that he surveys. --FTFY Garin
- Matthew DeVries
Abuse? I thought these tools were available to use however we wish. I didn't realize there are FF Nazis demanding that their use is the only legitimate use.
- Dawn
There goes Godwin... :) Discussion has ended.
- Ryo / Fuck Facebook
Dammit Dawn......
- Matthew DeVries
lol Thanks Matthew!
- Garin Kilpatrick
Can you say BUTTHURT?
- Rustic Thoughts
Glad you waited for 771 comments and 4 days of thoughtful deliberation to bring us that nugget of well thought out brilliance Rustic. The staggering intellectual rigor of your timely, measured, and informed and above all unique point truly brings the discussion to a level that rivals that of the lycium or the Algonquin round table.
- Matthew DeVries
Thats a lot of big words for so early in the morning.
- Rustic Thoughts
"I didn't realize there are FF Nazi's demanding that their use is the only legitimate use" -- FINALLY... Jeez... I've been sitting here waiting patiently for Godwin's Law to kick it. It's been almost 48hrs since all this happened... must be a new record. ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
I'm giving this thread a *facepalm* award for the multiple site/acct deletions (TC/FF & GG/TC), over-the-top comments, and of course Mr. "BUTTHURT" and use of the term "FF Nazi" http://friendfeed.com/ffacepa...
- Richard ¿digame? Walker
What goes around comes around. Arrington is getting what he's been asking for, for a long time.
- Chris Luckhardt
Totally tangential, but using BuddyFriend to read a thread with 771 comments really isn't a nice experience :)
- Ian Betteridge
from BuddyFeed
Actually a better idea would have been to make his account private
- Abhishek
I can't find the Gillmor Gang section of TechCrunch... could that be removed too? (hopefully just temporarily)
- John Wright
John: Yes, it's gone at the moment.
- Ken Sheppardson
There's an unofficial Gillmor Gang podcast on itunes here: http://itunes.apple.com/WebObje... or the RSS here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill...
- Jack
This is a tough situation. We all have reached the end of our patience at least once with someone that takes an effort to get along with, especially if we're exhausted by it. Some people are clueless about their impact on others. I've said things in those situations that I meant, but wished I had taken a higher road and said in a better way because it actually makes everything more stressful.
- Keith Barrett
Keith: It wasn't just one or two people it was like 20+ people who didn't even know the full story and jumped on the band-wagon. Those 20+ people also didn't bother to read the "Ouch" post on Techcrunch or watch the 2nd Gillmor Gang - infact they probably didn't even watch the first one - they probably just saw the 1minute clip on Youtube.
- Nicholas James
What a shame. What a shame this is still a mob. I've purposefully ignored this whole skirmish, having seen this coming a few weeks ago when the GG went to hell for an evening, and then another wee when Mike hung up and bailed on the show. It is a shame that Mike felt it necessary to delete his friendfeed account. It's also a shame that Mike seems to egg (mob)people on to the point of...
more...
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
invariant: the impact reviewers have is strongest on their readers, and their own reliability. if an author does not evaluate products honestly it will cause their audience, which may only be a small fraction of the total market, to make more poorly informed decisions and thereby undermines the value of their writing.
- Mike Chelen
Robert - Thanks for starting this thread. The calm voices and mostly sensitive nature of the comments have helped me begin to heal. I am emerging from this very trying weekend a changed person, trampled by a crowd wearing combat boots. I now know how scary mobs are.
- Tina Chase Gillmor
Tina: I once was in a real mob after a San Francisco 49er Super Bowl victory (I drove through it) and I've never been so terrified. It's interesting that my friend who told me off for pushing a mob a couple of years ago has been quiet with this mob. Ahh, I love studying how people work. Keep it up, let's get back in the saddle, what Steve, Mike, and you are doing is interesting. That's why the mob formed in the first place so don't forget that.
- Robert Scoble
*sigh* mobs suck
- Susan Beebe
If you have a mob that theoretically can be pushed at someone, you should be judged separately. It's like being a pro karate fighter - treated in court like a weapon.
- Kirill Bolgarov
Oh, by the way. techcrunch sucks and so does mashable. of course it's my personal opinion, but they have gone too far in the battles over traffic and pageviews. their destination is a tabloid with a few to no real value. the only reason i could click on a ЕС link was a good discussion onver it on friendfeed. so, they completely lost at least one reader because of their CEO's personal stuff. that's not that professional i guess
- Kirill Bolgarov
Leo Laporte Blows up at Mike Arrington - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Kol Tregaskes, anna sauce, Brian Hill and 52 other people liked this
Leo rocks
- Carol Levesque
Arrington was quite a jerk on this show. the "What are you going to do about it" line was right out of Jr. High.
- Jeff Jones
I liked Leo before, but now I respect him even more! Good for you not taking any shit from Arrington, Leo. If he knew you at all, he'd know you buy nearly everything you review. I've lost lots of respect for Arrington here--what a playground bully. I love that Leo just shut 'em all down! Thanks for sharing, Kevin, great stuff. I hope Leo has no regrets, because there should be none.
- Paul Salzman
I've never understood why Kevin, Leo, or any other well known technology people ever give a douchebag like Arrington the time of day.
- Chris Luckhardt
Leo : once again you've showed there are people we trust and follow (i.e you) and those who can't. Have been following and trusting you a long time, and will do more than ever now.
- arnaudt
Leo had every right to tell that guy to shove it. Mike was questioning Leo's integrity, in an irritating and cowardly manner to boot! What self-respecting journalist wouldn't, and shouldn't, react similarly?
- Ryan Shepherd
I've sometimes had a hard time reading arrington's articles on TechCrunch. They seemed to have tone that I couldn't really like. This little bit kind of solidified that thought and feeling about him.
- Robert de Castro
That was awesome! Leo, your integrity has always been top notch and you shouldn't let anybody question or tarnish it! Keep up the awesome work!
- Sean Simkins
What an arrogant ass. Way to stick it to him, Leo!
- Shawn Poulson
This is first time i've seen him like this.But he was correct in his stand, a review unit can't really influence such a decision.
- Abhishek
Arrington is a jerk. Leo is a class act all the way. SCREW YOU Arrington. your blog sucks anyway.
- Rustic Thoughts
That was amazing, good job Leo
- Johnathan Schultz
Leo has always been a man of integrity and surely has earned the right to give Arrington directions to Hell, when having his honor questioned. You go, Leo! --- Regular TWiT podcast, er . . . netcast listener, La-Tonia Denise Willis in Seattle
- PODFICTIONONLINE
Is it just me or techcrunch.com has this unexplainable air of unpleasentness in their posts?
- Alpay Erturkmen
kevin posted this? O Rly? cute.
- Caroline
Caroline: if you have digg fed into friendfeed then when you digg a story it comes over to friendfeed - kevin didn't post it if you go to the digg story you can find out who did - he even beat the creator of the video which is pretty impressive
- Chris Heath
I don't really know who is right, but I don't think that it's unreasonable to disclose that you were given something for free when making a recommendation about it. As matter of a fact, not disclosing it makes me question a persons integrity.
- Ron Hagenhoff
it wasn't FREE it was a 7-day review unit that he only asked for because he couldn't go wait in line for one. it was launched on saturday and leo does the radio show on saturday - therefore he reluctantly asked for a review unit - does that make sense?
- Chris Heath
Well since it wasn't free why get so angry? Arrington asked for Leo to make it clear to everyone that the unit was free. Wasn't free end of story. Obviously, there's prior issues between the 2 and I just think that it's weird all these people picking sides.
- Ron Hagenhoff
After watching a 2nd time I realized that Arrington pushed on with the FREE accusation even after Leo had said that the Pre wasn't free, That it was just a 7 day demo unit, and that he was thinking of buying one. My bad! I've heard that Arrington has since apologized though and that's a respectable thing to do.
- Ron Hagenhoff
I watched this about 4 times and wish I could make out what Mike was saying when they all were talking. I applaud Leo for standing up on the show live yet kinda sad to see him this way. I understand why Leo got the review unit. Mike went to far even if he thought Leo was wasn't serious. Edit: This is Mikes post on TechCrunch http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
- James Reeves
While I like listening to Leo and admire his work, I do not think it is fair to do all this 'Mike' bashing.
- Kevin J Hatton
Sure, Mike apologizes and becomes adult about it now, after realizing once again that he doesn't hold near the audience that Leo does. If the tables were turned, I doubt he'd ever give Leo a second thought. What a turd.
- Fleagle
Can you say "Ooops I better kiss butt before I lose all my readers?"
- Rustic Thoughts
They've both apologized and moved on, I do believe each side has its own valid reasons. Read here http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
- Jorge Escobar
Leo is a bigger man for accepting Arrington's apologies. I still wont read his blog however.
- Rustic Thoughts
I agree. I am not sure why some of these guys give Arrington the time of day. Way to go Leo!
- Adam Martin
I don't understand how anyone would come on a show and blatantly press an integrity issue, valid or not, with the _host_ of the show. That would never end well.
- Shawn Poulson
Getting ready to watch the WWDC liveblogging coverage on @gdgt! http://live.gdgt.com/2009... What are your predictions for Apple today?
Sylvain Nadeau, John Wang, Nir Ben Yona and 9 other people liked this
Snow Leopard Date, 3.0 Date, and a new Iphone!
- Fee501st
New Mac Mini, tuned for home theater
- Robert Hafer
store.apple.com is down!
- Fee501st
Hopefully a new AIR
- anna sauce
video in iphone
- anna sauce
Camera in iTouch
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that I new iphone won't be released until sometime in September because I want/need one NOW! <G>
- Lida Verner
Prediction, many will be upset at the incremental iPhone/OS updates.
- detorn
Prediction: Iphone 5g will launch sometime before gdgt does properly :p
- David Lloyd
new 15 macbook
- Fee501st
Snow Leopard $29
- Fee501st
iPhone 3GS! Who upgrading?
- Fee501st
Ugh.... I don't want to, but I might have to.
- Veronica
I have the upgrade sickness, I can't help myself.
- Veronica
Same here, just dont want 2 more years of AT&T if it was anyone else i wouldnt even think about it
- Fee501st
I resisted upgrading to 3G, but 3GS might be hard to resist.
- Robert Hafer
I'd like to upgrade from my 2G to 3GS, but again what do I do with my 2G. Plus, what size do I go for when my 2G is only 8GB?
- Araceli
How does AT&T do upgrades? the Price of the Phone and a new 2 year contract?
- Fee501st
I didn't upgrade for the 3G but I will for the 3GS - video & compass really push it over the edge for me, also autofocus which makes the camera infinitely more useful (auto macro = photo business cards, signs etc). Ill probably get the 32gb version to have plenty of space for recording. Not sure what to do with my 1st gen iPhone however
- Shannon Clark
Will Google Maps Street View take advantage of the Compass?
- Jason Wong
Adam Bullied and Carol Levesque liked this
Obama goes for burgers... - http://www.flickr.com/photos...
Jason Pontin, Robert, Rama Vadakattu and 6 other people liked this
Just a regular guy... "President Barack Obama returns to the Oval Office after going on a hamburger run for West Wing staffers and aides"
- Steve Rubel
from Bookmarklet
I saw something that he wanted a cheeseburger with ketchup only and fries. :)
- Sheryl
I can haz cheezeburger?
- Bora Zivkovic
I would like to buy a hamburger....
- τorƍue
@Prokofy I chose wordpress because people I trust in the community said it was best. Also, when I spoke at web conferences WP was favored.
Toby Hede, Adam Bullied, Morton Fox and 2 other people liked this
The "best" what? The best simple blogging platform, CMS, etc.?
- Chris Luckhardt
Chris: the best at doing a lot of things. But mostly I was looking for a blogging platform. Wordpress is used all over the place, including in Nancy Pelosi's office at the US Capitol.
- Robert Scoble
And yet Robert suggested that I use Typepad when I set up my personal blog in 2004. :)
- Alex Scoble
Alex: TypePad is good too. We used it on our book blog. It certainly has lots of advocates as well. But I've lately decided on wordpress.
- Robert Scoble
I am a newbie to the world of blogging, and my first encounter with WordPress and Blogger felt me thinking that WordPress is difficult to use.... I had much easier time setting up Blogger and posting to it then @ WordPress.
- Ashu Joshi
Bowties on men in their 20s and 30s are tricky. They either look really really dapper or resemble Orville Redenbacher. Popcorn, anyone? ;)
Adam Bullied, Chris Luckhardt, MVB (Curmudgeon of FF) and Sarah Perez liked this
Just leave it untied, like it's the end of the evening already. =)
- Andrew C
Calacanis is saying in his mailinglist that his new offer is now $500,000 for 3 years of @questions in the twitter suggested users list.
Daniel Rowley, Jeremy Dunck, Davide D'Incau and 7 other people liked this
I think it's well worth it. Also, I don't think they will take it.
- Jason Calacanis
I agree that it might be worth it for Mahalo, but perhaps not so much for other business owners reading this feed.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
I can't believe I'm saying this, but - I think they should take it. They should change it from "Suggested Users" to "Sponsor Users" and give anyone who pays a certain number of impressions based on the amount. Bingo: revenue model. I'm waiting for my job offer, Twitter.
- Shawn Farner
Calacanis is a mad genius.
- Dimitar Vesselinov
doesn't scale: ~$165k/yr per sponsor, in current scrolling window there are 1st three initial spots & ~100 throughout the scroll - so, ~$500k cost for one of three top spots, and then sliding scale down from there - diminishing returns says that the lower you go the less valuable it becomes, so lets say they could generate another ~$2.5mm from rest of sponsors - that's $3mm for the sponsor list & a very small portion of what their profitable revenue needs be - monetizing api is still best way to proceed
- mike "glemak" dunn
Social Networking Gadgets For Gmail - http://techie-buzz.com/feature...
Claudio Calligaris, Jack Frizzell, Nicholas Chase and 5 other people liked this
Interesting I should try a couple of these out. Last time i had the docs and calendar gadget turned on. It seemed to increase latency.
- Bindu Reddy
Christian Bale Goes ApeSh#t on Terminator 4 set - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Adam Bullied liked this
Adriana E. Reyes and Adam Bullied liked this
Build a Super News Ticker with Gmail - http://www.micropersuasion.com/2009...
Brad Kligerman, Vinko, Adam Bullied and 7 other people liked this
This is awesome. But your "Digg Home Page Direct Links - converts the Digg home page into direct links" is actually the Technology page only. Got any desire to make a Yahoo Pipes feed for the homepage? I'd love to bypass digg.com entirely and still find the good content. I have no idea how to create a pipe myself. ;)
- Tamar Weinberg
Tamar, thanks. It's not mine but if you go onto Pipes you can find them all.
- Steve Rubel
from IM
Yeah, I am checking it out now. Thanks Steve :)
- Tamar Weinberg
Google Mobile - Sync (This is huge if it works well. Am trying it now). - http://www.google.com/mobile...
nmind, Jeff, James and 82 other people liked this
so far, no sync :(
- Glen Campbell, B.A.
It seems to work great. Only 5 Google Calendars though.
- Wallace Wilson
I'd try it out but iPhone has this odd limitation of only one "Exchange" account at a time and I already sync with my Work Exchange. :(
- Paul Wade
Yes, this is ONLY useful if you don't already sync your iPhone to an Exchange server!
- Stephen Foskett
Love this. Hope that Apple end up supplementing lost MobileMe revenue with increased handset marketshare. Want to know if GoogleSync and MobileMe can be used in tandemn (until MobileMe subscription expires).
- Conor Ogle
Working well on WinMO so far, just needed to backup and import my outlook contacts into Google first. Looking forward to this thing moving
- Tyler Brownfield
Conor, I don't see why not. I have my work exchange server and my mobileme account (along with Yahoo, Gmail (email)) all on the same iphone and it all works great. I just wish I could add a second exchange account for Google.
- Paul Wade
Worked for me on my Windows Mobile, but I couldn't sync my calendar, as i'm already syncing elsewhere!
- Les Zaldor
Thanks. Do you think a one-time sync to get Google in line with MobileMe is going to be enough? I'm concerned about one overwriting the other.
- Conor Ogle
Google sync uses ActiveSync in Windows Mobile. This means I can't sync to both it and my work exchange server... such a bummer.
- Alan Le
Conor, MobileMe and Exchange Activesync are kept completely separate on the iPhone. No data crossover at all.
- Paul Wade
I like the thought, but I won't put it to use. I don't want my personal stuff, mixing with my work stuff anymore... Maybe another time, remember it's beta, but we all know google will keep it beta for like 2 years (i.e. gmail still beta) lol
- Jayson Flint
So what happens to my Address Book?
- Conor Ogle
Working here, fantastic - been waiting for this for a while. If you have multiple Google Calendars make sure to visit m.google.com/sync on the phone (not on the computer) and select the additional calendars you want to sync.
- Ben
I've had this for some time now using nuevasync.com... but, now I can sync directly to google, and remove nuevasync from the equation. nice.
- Neil Bernhart
This is a major game changer IMO. Why would any small business owner want Blackberry or Exchange servers at this point? GMail allows you to park a domain & gives you 7+ gigs for free. With OTA sync, you get the Blackberry-esque features, also for free. If I have 10-50 employees, I have the choice of hosting multiple servers onsite with multiple moving parts along with purchasing CALs, HW & SW maintenance, and dealing with never-ending storage needs. Or, I could let someone else do it for little to no cost.
- Peter Ghosh
oh, and beware... push eats battery life on the 3G like there's no tomorrow. if you can live with getting updates every 15 min, I would stick with fetch.
- Neil Bernhart
NuevaSync has been offering the same service from months on the iPhone and other phones. It can also do up to 8 calendars.
- Chris Williams
Only one calendar is synced from Google. Nuevasync supports multiple calendars.
- Jared B. Luther
Jared, you can sync up to 5 cals with Google Sync. Sadly, none of them can be shared calendars from what I'm seeing. Sticking with NuevaSync for now.
- Kevin C. Tofel
@Kevin - they can be shared. I'm viewing shared and even public calendars with Google Sync on my iPhone.
- Wallace Wilson
Is this one of those things that doesn't work with Google Apps for your domain? It doesn't seem to want to work for me.
- Ryan Anderson
I am a Google Apps user and I am getting nada. Me thinks I will be heading back over to Nuevasync.
- Matt Martin
@Peter, if I was a small business owner, one thing that I'd consider is the security. Google Apps doesn't give you any ability to manage the device. Both BES and Exchange allow you to remotely kill or hobble a device as well as push custom apps and security policies. You can get BES free for less than 10 devices or go to hosted Exchange/BES. Sure it costs you money, but businesses should be concerned about where all that data is going and being stored.
- Kenton
@Ryan, I found the fix. You need to go into the dashboard for your domain and enable the sync.
- Matt Martin
@Ryan and Matt: It DOES work on hosted domains. You need to login to your Google Apps admin control panel and enable sync.
- Peter Ghosh
@Peter, thanks for the heads up. Seems to be working well..
- Matt Martin
I think for individuals and small businesses this is going to be killer in which data security and device management can be a bit more lenient. I wish just sucks I'm stuck with Exchange already at work.
- Brian Bufalo
@Kenton - Good take on security. Given that this is using Activesync, I think the Google Apps-enabled kill switch is imminent (ActiveSync via Exchange has kill switch features). The fact that the domain's Google Apps admin has to enable sync'ing in the first place is a good start.
- Peter Ghosh
btw, 1 hour in and this feature is nerdtastic!!!!
- Peter Ghosh
Thanks for the tip on enabling it via the Google Apps dashboard; seems to work fine for me now.
- Glen Campbell, B.A.
Nice! I didn't know about the activation from within the Admin panel of Apps for Domains, and now it's working great. Thanks Matt & Peter!
- Haggis (Sean Loyless)
Still no news and/or tricks on how to get the calendar to sync to the Nokia symbian phones?
- Henrik Söderlund
I don't have any options for additional calendars on m.google.com/sync, just the iPhone setup instructions. Is this an Apps bug?
- Haggis (Sean Loyless)
Tried setting it up on my HTC Mogul and it no work. Had to change the username to cjwelle%gmail.com for the user name to get the domain to show up. But after that no sync of any information. Not ready for primetime in my book.
- CW™
Setting up Google Sync now. updating my N82 firmware first. hope it wont delete my contacts list like it does for iPhone.
- Sunil Joseph
Wallace, thanks for correcting me. I wasn't able to see my shared calendars, but after your comment I thought about it. My shared cals are from a Google Apps account and our admin likely hasn't enabled it for that one. Thanks!
- Kevin C. Tofel
I've been using the version for BlackBerrys for a couple of months or so, but turned it off the other day as it kept retracting my appointments during syncs leaving me with an empty calendar and missed appointments! Not sure what was happening there, and it's hard to tell if there's a newer release for the BBs that's come out now too.
- Benjamin Watt
Sounds like a good idea but I can't get it set up. Keep getting "exchange account validation failed" but no clues as to what failed. Are there any restrictions on usage outside the US?
- Mark Warren
I use this on my BlackBerry and it works extremely well for me.
- Christopher Howie
from twhirl
I also found a problem here in germany - if you try to sync more than one calendar it said "this device is not supported" - adding ?hl=en to switch to english helped and I could sync all my shared and read only calendars: http://m.google.com/sync?hl=en
- Frank S.
Works perfectly for me. Now I can stop using nuevasync...
- Jorg Jansen
I've used the BlackBerry version for a few months now. It's great!
- Rob Boek
Well, If you are using and depending on /or can't get around another service, e.g. an Exchange server, in your cross sync calendar and contacts mix Google Sync is most likely not going to do much for you. Las time I checked, Google Sync assumes the dominant position and does not let you specify any sync conditions you'd might come to expect from other syncing apps. E.g. syncing contacts to and from your Google account not optional. I'd like to be able to tell Google how and what I'd like to sync, though.
- Vidar Andersen
If apple would simply support CalDav on the iPhone this would be a moot point. I can have iCal attached to Google Calendar and working off-line... but not the calendars on my iPhone. I don't get it...
- Brian Roy
Proof of the pudding for me will be how it handles alarms. If that works well, bye bye MobileMe!
- Chris Hearn
I wonder if using ActiveSync has any implications for Verizon users who have the $30/mo data plan for "Web Mail/Web Browsing", vs the $45/mo plan which is for "Syncing of Calendars/Tasks/Email/Web Browsing"? Could they be doing any packet capture by protocol?
- Jef
works awesome. i've been using nuevasync since i got the phone but was waiting till google did their own. now i'm happily waiting for them to support sync for tasks with.... ?
- tommy payne
from twhirl
NO, it doesn't work great. It has all the same problems with any other Exchange Sync. Your phone is "slaved" to the "exchange" - once that happens - no other contacts, no other calendars (with Google Apps you only get 1 calendar). The limitations of this pretty much out-weigh the up-side.
- Brian Roy
This is very tempting, except just this morning I was thinking that I need to start extracting myself from excessive dependence on the Google. I guess I could use this if I can figure out some other Google service to jettison.
- Erik S
I've been using Neuvasync for the past 9 or 10 months. It's a free Exchange service that interfaces with your Google calendar and contact store. It worked extremely well providing near real-time OTA synch between my iPhone, Outlook (with a Google account) and the web. I've now switched over to Google's Exchange service. Since Google was already hosting my contacts and calendar there was...
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- Troy Forster
from twhirl
I've noticed that if you setup Google Sync with your iPhone and have the OS X Address Book set to sync with Google, it appears the latter no longer happens. While OTA updates seem to work flawlessly between Google Contacts and the iPhone, if you intend to keep the Address Book in sync with the other 2 then something is in need of fixing.
- Scott Jarkoff
Any difference between Exchange and MobileMe push on the iPhone with regard to battery life?
- Chris Hearn
ilike :) works so far
- videopixil
How is this handling fields that Google doesn't have in Gmail, i.e. birthdays? I'm a little hesitant to just sync contacts specifically, because Gmail doesn't have the number of related fields that the iPhone or the Address Book app does.
- Aakar Shroff
its not new though... its existed on the blackberry for a loong time (and has been working quite well for me)... is the "new" just the version for the iPhone or am i missing something?
- simran
Currently Google Sync only supports Contacts for my Nokia N95 Too bad I use GooSync now for my calendar, but it only updates a couple of weeks ahead. Wish Plaxo had 2 way sync with Google Contacts. And that I could use any address book in gmail.
- nooble
Took a while to get this up and running well, but I've decided to forgo access to my work email/calendar to have my Google Calendar on my phone.
- Bill Glover
I have never been a big fan of Google's contacts system. If contact photos (which I use in my iPhone for caller ID) don't get synced they way Outlook does it, I won't bother. Google needs to overhaul the whole UI and feature set of it's contacts system. Right now it is probably the worst of all the main webmail services.
- Rolf Schewe
youll let us know?
- Richard Binhammer
from twhirl
I have a question for anyone who's used this so far. What happens with conflicts? How does it determine if a contact is the same and which one wins the conflict? Can this be set? It would be nice if the phone wins for phone number conflicts and Google wins for email address conflicts (possibly address, too), but that's a pipe dream, I guess.
- Chieze Okoye
Also, what happens with contact images? I don't want to overwrite the ones already on my phone but it would be nice to have some pulled from GChat for the rest of my contacts that don't have them set already (so I guess I would like phone to win contact image conflicts)
- Chieze Okoye
D'oh! only the main calendar on WinMob! Sucks! Oh well, guess I won't be using it now. Switching to Nuevasync, I guess.
- Chieze Okoye
Twitter users report Feedburner meltdown http://search.twitter.com/search...
Adam Bullied and Timo Heuer liked this
at least I now know why 1/2 the podcasts I listen to are erroring out in iTunes
- Bastard Operator From FF
What is Enterpreneurship about?
Adam Bullied, Peter Spook and vijay liked this
1. Enterprenurship is about filling in the needs that man did not know existed?!
- Nishant
2. Its about being an agent of social change
- Nishant
3. Enterprenurs - are the SALT of an economy!
- Nishant
3. Being a little crazy, passionated and focus about something
- Martin Añazco
Out-of-the-box, break the mold of traditional thinking innovation.
- Peter Spook
What more? Add up!
- Nishant
we all have ideas and thoughts..entrepreneurship is the capacity and effort to pass beyond mere words and discussions to actions aimed at achieving certain profitable ends.
- Hayk H.
just a little correction. It's entreprenEurship. It's about using resources that you have or collect to make a profit.
- Vincent van Wylick
yeah spelling mistake - define entrepreneurship : practice of starting new organizations or revitalizing mature organizations, particularly new businesses
- TrafficBug
Kevin Smith Has High hopes for the "Zack and Miri" DVD - http://jam.canoe.ca/Video...
Adam Bullied and J. Abdul-Qahhar liked this
"Director Kevin Smith believes that his film Zack and Miri Make a Porno will enjoy the success it deserves thanks to an excellent, extras-laden DVD release."
- Chris Luckhardt
from Bookmarklet
Kevin Smith Answers - http://www.flickr.com/photos...
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Adam Bullied, Kevin, CW™ and J. Abdul-Qahhar liked this
60+ Resources For Entrepreneurs To Step Up and Take Charge | Applicant - The Advice Bank - http://applicant.com/60-reso...
Adam Bullied, Gary and Larry Lewis liked this
great list of articles / software / ideas
- Nilesh
Your startup will fail, too, if something isn't done. - http://dawnsplan.wordpress.com/2009...
Adriano Gasparri, Adam Bullied, Gary and 2 other people liked this
Forrester: Brand loyalty to search engines is low and there's room for a Google killer - http://www.adweek.com/aw...
Bertrand Doux, Nigel Kitchen, fansnap and 19 other people liked this
At one time people thought Yahoo would never be overthrown. Now we have Google. Who knows what the future will hold.
- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
There may be room for other search engines, but a Google killer? Surely you/they jest. With all the collateral apps Google is putting out there to glue people to Google, I don't think Google is at risk of being killed.
- Kent
Kent: I don't think a Google killer is possible. Here's why: let's assume that someone could actually index as much, and figure out some magical way to make a demonstrateably better search engine. Very cool, right? Except it would get so hyped up, so quickly, that it would need to deal with Google's scale. Google has at least half a million computers now deployed in its data centers around the world. So, you'd need to build an equivilent infrastructure to deal with that. Where are you going to get money?
- Robert Scoble
If you can't figure out how you'll get the capital to compete with Google then there's no way you can build a Google killer.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, the money will come from a Nigerian Prince, of course.
- Micah Wittman
killer is no more than expecter
- 阿石
there will be a google killer or will get absorbed by a google.The marginal cost is very high right now to be able to be just equal to Google.But within 10 yrs or less that will not be a barrier.When U will be able to walk around with your hand held device having 1 Petabyte of disc space and the computing power of todays servers.You will be equivalent of a Google Data center, then it will be about how local can information get & update the device as you move about.
- Baba
Agree. What's more, I happily guide my family to this "Google killer", just like I installed Firefox for them. Perhaps Google==IE6? :)
- Meryn Stol
Nobody can beat Google at their own game (search), but if the game is changed there might be an opportunity. The $ from search comes from matching producers and consumers. If there was a better way to match producers and consumers that didn't require all sorts of infrastructure, there could be a viable business that eats into Google's revenue's without going head-to-head on search.
- coldbrew
won't even bother read the piece, the headline is just wrong, do a poll
- Bob Sonin
I completely disagree with the article, which I read b/c I have a Forrester account. The fact that people use multiple search engines is old news. The only story here is that sometimes Google isn't #1 in each niche. But overall Google dominates
- Mike Reynolds
I agree with @coldbrew, I don't think overthrowing google is possible without major paradigm shift occurring in the way we find information on the web. 10 years ago Google proclaimed that search is the king, I can see that something else will become a new king, and make whole web search concept obsolete. It may be social network based or real time information retrieval, but it won't be a traditional web search for sure - there is already not enough space for improvement.
- andrei_c
I can see a clear way to knock Google from its perch in search engines.
- Sean McBride
Google knows this which is why they are aggressively working to make search results better. The algorithm is still quite immature (a kind word for dumb). I've referred to it as a blind five year old and Matt Cutts has referred to it as a hyperactive four year old. So ... yes, if someone developed an engine that presented better results you'd have something. But that would be essentially creating an adult-equivalent AI. *very* difficult.
- AJ Kohn
LinkedIn’s Reid Hoffman: “We Can Go Public Any Time We Want To” - http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
Adam Bullied, Peter Spook, Nation Hahn and Ekim Nazım Kaya liked this
Super Bowl Ratings Revision: Most-Watched Ever - http://adage.com/mediawo...
Daniel Rowley, MG Siegler and Adam Bullied liked this
Report hints at next-gen iPhone in June - http://www.appleinsider.com/article...
Bill Romanos, Adam Bullied, Daniel Rowley and 2 other people liked this
Doesn't surprise me. Apple is on a regular schedule these days with launches.
- Steve Rubel
By the time Palm gets to market, Apple will be even further ahead.
- Phil Boiarski
A Full-Time Job, a Wife, a Kid and Dial-up Internet: How to Keep up with the ‘Big Boys and Girls’ on Twitter - http://www.twitip.com/a-full-...
John Flynn, Adam Bullied, Brian Hill and 2 other people liked this
Gmail brings tasks to the iPhone and iGoogle (http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2009...)
Arnaud Fischer, Tony Vota, Adam Bullied and 4 other people liked this
Punxsutawney Phil saw his shadow. Six more weeks of winter. http://www.groundhog.org/predict...
Wade Dorrell, Adam Bullied, Bryan Clark and 3 other people liked this
I wonder how accurate Phil's predictions are?
- Sally Church
I'm not sure, but it looks fun :) They must have a site with statistics.
- Bibi
Bibi, well I confess that I thought the Groundhog Day film was make believe and didn't realise Punxsutawny Phil actually existed until living in the US, oops!
- Sally Church
Here in GA, we haven't actually had anything resembling Winter yet, so I'm glad we've been granted more time for teh coldz.
- Joey Gibson
@Sally, yes, it's hard to believe, but it's in interesting cultural event, even not believing in the prevision. :) According to Wikipedia: "Groundhog Day proponents state that the rodents' forecasts are accurate 75% to 90%. A Canadian study for 13 cities in the past 30 to 40 years puts success rate level at 37%. Also, the National Climatic Data Center reportedly has stated that the overall predictions accuracy rate is around 39%." http://tr.im/e5l9
- Bibi
Sally: every time he sees his shadow and says 6 more weeks, he's being completely accurate; Spring doesn't start until March 20th. And, since there are so many lights and cameras around, he always sees his shadow.
- Mark Trapp
When Talking About Business Models, Remember That Profits Equal Revenues Minus Costs - http://www.avc.com/a_vc...
Daniel Rowley, Andrei M. Marinescu, Emmett Shear and 18 other people liked this
Digg apparently doesn't care about profitability. Can't imagine running a company in the red with $5.5m costs and then thinking about adding additional overhead costs to that! Yikes. This sounds like they have no clue how to run a business
- Susan Beebe
Dramatic McCain - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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D. Eda Goze, Adam Bullied, Eric Geller and 10 other people liked this
He's serious!
- J. Abdul-Qahhar
Didn't like when he kept doing this look during the debate
- Rahsheen ™, Coach of FF
That specific thing is what a Maverick does...
- Bryan
Microsoft Puts Weight Behind Open Source Projects With Web Platform Installer - http://www.techcrunch.com/2008...
Adam Bullied liked this
Funny. Just was having a conversation today about hosting Wordpress on a Windows server and any hidden perils involved in not going the standard route on Apache and MySQL.
- Lou Paglia
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