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Adam Curry › Comments
@OddNews blogspot.com is hosted/patched in the cloud, so if the insecurities bug you, it's worth a look. (via http://friendfeed.com/e...)
The only thing is WP is so good with search engine rankings... maybe static html? :)
- Adam Curry
Is the real-time web a threat to Google search? - http://scobleizer.com/2009...
Chris Patterson, Eric Bowen, Iggy Mwangi and 83 other people liked this
Yes.
- Meryn Stol
All about how friendfeed search is kicking ass and taking no prisoners.
- Robert Scoble
Yes and no, but considering they want to be the end all be all of the web- then Yes.
- Dan Rockwell
Glad to see there are still white spaces that google is yet to squat.
- Jim Posner
First of all Yes, it is a threat for google! I see you why the question popped up. I just hope twitter understands the importance of integrating the search in their
- Sampad Swain
could be a big play. my tweet 2h ago http://twitter.com/cemi...
- Cem Dalgic
Yes! I can ask my friends and followers a question on Twitter and get better answers from them than Google search, simply because I trust real people and their judgments.
- Jennifer James
no, it just gives early adopter like you/us some advance. The average user will continue to drink their usual website information. But if Google doesn't achieve to do the same as FF and this is a need, they will buy them ;-)
- Frédéric Sidler
Yes, it is! I just hope twitter don't forget to give much importance to the integration of the search since monetization is one of the biggest question in their mind. Still they goto remember that google didn't earn much the moment they launched google-search. Something so important does take sometime to evolve as, I see it! Infact I see for the 1st time that their is a feeble chance that something can give shot at search in google's arena!
- Sampad Swain
in need for creative destruction (yet again) in the search marketspace. let's see if google can jump the curve
- Yung-Hui Lim
My 2 cents: real time is about things happening now, being up to date with your friends, areas of interest, etc - out of all these conversations only some live up to be relevant in the long run - and this is where google steps in to sort out
- Lucian Nicolescu
I think the argument shaping up is trusted info (Twitter, FF) vs anonymous info (Google, et al.)
- Jon Mason
Yeah, it definitely is a threat. All the web needed was a central place to discuss what is happening right now, and Twitter is it. For real-time news, there is nothing better than Twitter. I only wish I could participate in creating that real time awareness, but can't because I'm protected on Twitter.
- Scott Breakall
so mahalo + google = twitter ?
- Cem Dalgic
No threat at all. I can't name five university or high school friends that use any realtime websites. Friendfeed is no threat to google search.
- Richard A.
Yes, it is a threat. First googlebot went out and started crawling and indexing. Now people let google know (and other services know) when they updated their blog, think of xml-sitemaps, ping services. What is the next step? Take a look at google friend-connect and you might have an answer.
- Imran Ashraf
hard to call it a threat when Google can just imitate or purchase the tech, but I agree that it could change the game. I hope you folks at friendfeed see this and keep improving and pushing search - and monetize it somehow!
- David Knight
Is the real time web a threat to Google search -- maybe sometime in the future. Is Twitter a threat to Google as Moorman indicates? Never in a million years. Twitter is a toy, a fad, like CB radio in the 70's.
- Brian Sullivan
I would say the bigger threat (and to the web, not just Google) is people putting their personal data into proprietary silos. I'm not talking about FriendFeed here, but lots of people are putting their data into places where not only 1) not only no general search engine can reach, but 2) people can't always get their own data back.
- Matt Cutts
@Matt - I agree with you there I wish more services would do something like Wesabe's Bill of Right - https://www.wesabe.com/page... It makes me feel much better about trusting them with something as important as my financial information.
- David Knight
Wow I never i quite thought of it like that, I getting into this instant gratification mode lately, this is why... real-time web
- Tate
Left a comment on your blog saying something similar but hasn't been approved as yet. Basically all the search functionality that you speak about is possible with google search. However, the real-time and trust aspects are something that google is going to have to work on. They have introduced the ability to flag a search result as the one you were looking for. Eventually, if it isn't already, google will feed this into their search results and probably put something like X people recommended this.
- Phil Leggetter
Wouldn't it be easy for Google to expand its command line language? For instance, to search on Friendfeed from Google: /ff *searchexpression
- Sean McBride
Excellent points Robert. I agree, I come here now to gain personal opinion on factual issues to sway me in a particular direction. For purchasing, this was the power of Amazon reviews for products, but that doesn't cover everything and I trust the people here more. For example, I'd rather get a web application opinion from Zee in the Apps room than a Google search. I know he knows what he's talking about :)
- Eric - 100% Choice Cuts
Yes, in many ways!
- Emmanuel Anumonwo
As a journalist, one of the laws I follow in reading stories is that "any story which ends in a question mark can be answered 'no'". This is no exception :)
- Ian Betteridge
No - there will still be an archive that needs to be searchable
- andy brudtkuhl
Ian, you must create an exception for this rule for questions posted by Robert. He's of a very special breed. :)
- Meryn Stol
Friendfeed needs to move quickly to make itself more commercial, most people do not yet understand Friendfeed. Twitter is a lot easier for the mainstream and Facebook already has the numbers.
- Chris Frost
I agree with your statement regarding FriendFeed. I keep seeing posts from Scoble and I wanted to know how I can maximize the service. I'm still not quite sure of the answer but if I keep playing with it and meeting others who use it then maybe I'll get a grip.
- Damond Nollan
Integrate Gtalk / Twitter into Google Latitude and that's all the real-time web I'd need! 10 Reasosn Latitude will succeed (The Next Web) http://thenextweb.com/2009...
- David Petherick
from twhirl
No. This is dumb. I'd rather get results that are 15 minutes old and *accurate* than right this minute completely unverified results. Social search (who seriously cares if it's "real time"?), will be a game changer though. Which Facebook and Friendfeed are well positioned to make headway in. Not Twitter.
- Eric P
I wonder if this emerging trend will give rise to twitter users being paid for click-throughs on links in their tweets; why not? If the link is relevant, truly written by someone I trust, and meets my need, I'm all in favor of that person being rewarded monetarily (and socially in terms of increased trust capital between myself and that person). Twitter could shave a few cents off the top and actually monetize their service while not disrupting the signal-noise balance. Your thoughts? @socialtopher
- Chris Stewart
@codinghorror and @scobleizer should get together
- dpurrington
Are we coming full circle? [near-]Real-time, archivable discussions were the stuff of Usenet 20 years ago. Sure, it's more "web", but there's much about how a discussion starts, blossoms and expires in FriendFeed that is comfortingly familiar somehow. So could FriendFeed be the new Usenet, where instead of news servers relaying posts blindly to the next-in-line, we have information distributed and filtered via mechanisms based on human interaction and recommendation?
- Paul Robertson
I think there are a lot of people who don't have the time to keep up with the real-time Web. That having been said, I think there are some opportunities to expand Google Alerts as a product....
- Steve Lynch
from twhirl
rtw humans are preferable to the algorithms since the algo's have an industry (SEO) consumed. IMO the first one evolving the real time web into mainstream information retrieval wins
- shayne catrett
Is it a threat? No, it's not. Just because some CEO has a theory and Robert Scoble is using Google less does not mean it's so. I like that you have posed the question, but you've also started to make a point. If I'm looking for an opinion, I might turn to my 'friends'...that being, my real friends.
- Ryan
It's not a threat, but it does give us options
- paul mooney
Interesting - I'm writing a blog post about this right now. Long story short - no, real-time web is not a threat to Google search. Recency is flawed (hey, how many times would Steve Jobs be dead now?!) and authority is flawed (real-time web spam is a problem.)
- AJ Kohn
I agree real time can be helpful, but will not be a threat to Google. The volume and history that google has adds scope and context to searches that real time can not.
- walterh
I think it is more a threat to SEO - when many people ask their network before they search, being found becomes more than buying adwords and optimising the site... and that in turn might erode some of google's advertising revenue.
- Iphigenie
Maybe... all I know is I wish some of you guys would grow a pair and not be "yes men" just because an a-lister asks a question! Provide a unique viewpoint... please quit with the "great post! i totally agree!". C'mon people!
- Adam Curry
Adam: I had to go back and look for the "great post! I totally agree!" comments here. Wonder what thread you are reading?
- Robert Scoble
What Wallace said.
- Ciaoenrico
It all depends, if you're searching for what people had for breakfast, the currency of wtf, lol, omg and a torrent of PR both personal and corporate then maybe. If you're searching for the ports of magellan's voyage, the cheapest price for a home cinema system and who was the director of Gone With The Wind, then no.
- Simon Lucy
It really depends on how well-versed and -informed your digitalized friends are
- Jeroen Fransen
from twhirl
There is still some data that will need to be indexed. Factual information like Simon is talking about is WAY easier to find on Google than FriendFeed. If you are looking for news or a conversation then real-time, social news is the place to go.
- Brandon Titus
I think it depends on what you are looking for. For real time news and conversation I think friendfeed and facebook are way beyond Google. But for searching for other content, archive etc internet search is going to be better.
- Chris Patterson
Scoble Starts His FriendFeed/Twitter Monetization Strategy - http://www.louisgray.com/live...
timepilot, Matthew Freeman, Bill Sodeman and 106 other people liked this
I can't really blame him, but some disclosure would have been nice.
- TobiasVerhoog.com
from BuddyFeed
HUUHHHHHHHH -- SCANDAL!!! I feel so violated...
- sofarsoShawn <right here>
Good for him. If I was in the market to buy one and he had a link, it's no skin off my back. If I wasn't in the market his post about it would just fly right under my radar.
- Martha
Nice catch. He may need to be un-followed moving forward. From what I can tell, he is genuine, but he missed out on being transparent and that screws with my bullshit meter (it may need adjustment).
- coldbrew
Doh! Amazon Affiliates are the obvious play. It makes complete sense. Will be interesting to see how/if this catches on.
- Roberto Bonini
I think content should never contain affiliate links as to remove all chances AND suspicions of conflict of interest. I think the only thing one can safely get out of social media is reputation - personal branding you could say, which can be "monetized" true better job opportunities, consulting offers, etc. Affiliate links in your content destroys the trustworthiness of your brand, at least for me.
- Meryn Stol
@Roberto & colbrew believe me I expect Kindle's for ALL of US!
- sofarsoShawn <right here>
But nothing wrong with charging $200 per hour because you're a super star. Super stars are - per definition - scarce.
- Meryn Stol
@sofarsoshawn: believe me, this thread is not about the Kindle
- coldbrew
true, no more sarcasm (well maybe a lil), it's a little bit equitable to investment bankers plugging their own stocks before the first financial plummet after which, disclosure became a must if there was any possible conflict of interest. I'm not equating it 100% at all, but it is akin in that it casts doubt on that persons repupation as a reliable source
- sofarsoShawn <right here>
*shakes head* Kindle wouldn't have half of the Internati buzz without affiliates pimping it for referral fees. Yet, no one really thinks about it on this macro level. Instead you aim at the guy who didn't get a free v1 Kindle and panned it when he did get one. It's the right thing to be cautious of, but applied to the wrong person.
- AJ Kohn
I have no issues with this. Robert is a unique 'brand'... No one has to follow him or click the links. Also, an endorsement of the kindle is hardly being a shill, it's a good device - might as well be paid in doing so. That said, I'd say free service like FF and Twitter should get a cut.
- Vince DeGeorge
Best selling Digital SLRs: http://snurl.com/a8gwa (Playing Scoble's game!)
- Scott Loftesness
Scott - nice!
- andy brudtkuhl
I don't really mind at all. The affiliate cash doesn't hurt the purchaser at all. Who cares if Scobez makes some extra money?
- iTad
What's so big about sticking in affiliate links like that? I do it all the time when I reference books, and have been doing so for a good long time now. I thought by these days, it'd be a no-brainer to do something like this. Much ado about nothing.
- Chris Charabaruk
@Chris and all, I wouldn't call this "much ado about nothing". The reason I posted is because of Robert's visibility and the previous discussion of how he was "wasting his time". How could he convert the community to revenue? If he put a note out on Twitter asking for $5 via PayPal, would that have been effective or as good? It's an interesting move.
- Louis Gray
Crafty..... but lol!!! :o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
It is indeed much ado about nothing. Damn near any Amazon link you encounter these days is going to have an affiliate code embedded in it. Most of mine do and its no big deal, people click or they don't. If it starts to get spammy thats when the problems happen. However if you're posting a link to a product you're discussing, why not put the affiliate link in there? You were going to link to it anyway and the same people were going to click the link anyway. I fail to see the problem here.
- EricaJoy
@Chris: +1. I run a book blog. I review books and I bash Kindle. I still have affiliate links. The issue shouldn't be whether you use affiliate links it should be whether the affiliate links taint that person's reviews of products. *MANY* in the Kindle space are tainted but Scoble is not one of them.
- AJ Kohn
Erica, I wouldn't put this in the "problem" category. But Scoble potentially converting his user stream across multiple networks into revenue is newsworthy, especially versus December's discussion about needing an intervention and how he was propping up service valuations and getting nothing in return. I think you'll see the biggest "criticism" I had was that it wasn't disclosed - which others across the Web have had mixed agreement with.
- Louis Gray
Erica: Do a affiliate link for charity then.
- Meryn Stol
I'm ok with Robert doing this if he discloses it - e.g. by adding in [AD] and limiting this to once a day. I'd also want him to care about the products, which I'm assuming is the case with the Kindle.
- Mike Doeff
Josh: How do you mean? My point was that you shouldn't give your "constituency" any reason to doubt your objectivity, your honesty. Likewise, I also don't like sales person who work on commission basis. They're just wrong incentives. They could be honest, sure. But they also could be saying things out of financial interest.
- Meryn Stol
I must add that full upfront disclosure (should practically be part of his blog header) would help a lot.
- Meryn Stol
I suspect that Robert's posting of links here contravenes Amazon's operating agreement -- section 10 specifically but I that is between him and Amazon.
- Brian Sullivan
why???? why does it matter? In a sense, if you post a NON aff link, do you feel thats better? if so WHY?
- Rob Sellen :o)
Brian, what does section 10 of that agreement specify? (too lazy to look)
- Mike Doeff
Meryn: I will disclose from now on. I wasn't telling anyone to buy them. I actually hate the first Kindle quite a bit. Here's my review: http://scobleizer.com/2007...
- Robert Scoble
By the way, I see lots of people linking to their blogs where they make a lot more money off of the hits through advertising. I never see disclosure of those links.
- Robert Scoble
10. Responsibility for Your Site You will be solely responsible for the development, operation, and maintenance of your site and for all materials that appear on your site. For example, you will be solely responsible for: the technical operation of your site and all related equipment ensuring the display of Special Links on your site does not violate any agreement between you and any...
more...
- Brian Sullivan
What's in section 10? Sounds like interesting reading, but not this morning :)
- coldbrew
I see the thread has gotten to be 90% on the disclosure issue - and good morning, Robert. What are alternative ways you think Robert and others could convert their visibility on these networks to revenue?
- Louis Gray
Robert, just to be clear: I do trust you that you're not becoming the stereotypical "upselling" sales person. Anyway, you see the fuss. I think you know as no others that full transparency is best.
- Meryn Stol
poor guy, one affiliate link, and the whole blogosphere jumps on him.
- Xavier Vespa
Louis: want to make money on social networks? Put ads on your blogs and link to them. Oh, wait, this is an aggregator and it does that by default. Or, get a job at a PR firm because you are a highly thought of blogger (or keep your job because of that). I never see people disclosing those kinds of links. Meryn: I will diclose from now on when I link to sites using affiliate codes. Personally I doubt I'll make any substantial income off of these links. Certainly hasn't been the case yet.
- Robert Scoble
Meryn... WHY is it best and for who? would it have made you feel better if it was a NON aff link?? why? would it have mattered if it was a NON aff link but not disclosed? Or was disclosed?
- Rob Sellen :o)
xavier: I actually think this is funny since the link itself gives disclosure of a kind. There's lots of people making money here that aren't disclosing it.
- Robert Scoble
how is §10 of the Amazon agreement relevant? sorry for being dense, but I read it and I don't see the connection.
- Nathan Rein
The agreement has a discussion about where you can post links - specifically on "your site" - section 10 further refines the definition of "your site".
- Brian Sullivan
The focal point here for me is finding a way to convert the followers to revenue. Robert knows that from me its not personal. I don't run ads on the blog, or charge people to read, and I have zero problem with his Seagate ads. I have zero problem with his links to Amazon having affiliate URLs. As mentioned in the article, I would have preferred a note of disclosure, but what I like here is the thinking about how he can leverage his work over the last few years in building a network.
- Louis Gray
Adding on... if you were thinking about buying a Kindle or anything from Amazon, start with Robert's URL and make the poor guy some cash! :-)
- Louis Gray
why?? he aint POOR is he? lol... but I agree in that sense, if I was buying sommat anyway, i'd rather it went to help someone than not. :o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
If Robert would be pitching products and asked readers to "tip" him for his advice by buying the product through an affiliate link, then I would consider that a very fair deal. I've said this somewhere else, but this is relevant here: I'm more likely to pay for "donation ware" than for shareware.
- Meryn Stol
Oh, feel free to go to my book blog and help me out as well! (http://usedbooksblog.com)
- AJ Kohn
I only see a very small problem with this. I think disclosing the affiliate link would have been better, but many people look to Robert as an online "cool hunter" of sorts. That's adding value to the information exchange and being compensated shouldn't be frowned upon IMHO. If he handles it poorly (and obvious conflicts of interest arise) he will lose his value add and lose his followers.
- mikepk
That's ok, but thats only you Meryn. ;o) So you would rather use my beer button my blog than click an aff link when buying something you would buy anyway but decided to buy then through my post etc..,? what difference does it make either way?
- Rob Sellen :o)
@mikepk: I partially agree. I don't think disclosure is really needed. (I don't need the useless privacy updates I get from every credit card either.) It comes down to trust. Do you trust that the individual is not being influenced by the monetary incentive? If you suspect there is bias based on the affiliate relationship then that person loses trust and followers and ultimately hurts their own revenue stream.
- AJ Kohn
@mikepk I agree it's a small problem, however I would like to know why Scoble didn't disclose, that is if he feels up to answer it ~ Scoble? Btw I think Robert Scoble is a God with a chiseled body
- sofarsoShawn <right here>
Chris.... thats what i would do... i wouldn't just go through his, id rather choose who my aff payment goes to :o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
need to get yer eyes tested shawn. :o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
I looked at and clicked on the link -- the link has the word "scobleizer" in it -- seems to me that is effective disclosure? It doesn't go directly to the amazon Kindle page either -- it goes to an intermediary link. I think there was disclosure if not totally overt. Only an idiot would think it is not an affiliate link.
- Brian Sullivan
Robert adds a new thread to say why I missed the point: http://friendfeed.com/e...
- Louis Gray
Josh... who are you to say we are "getting to smart for our own good here"? What is your problem with someone trying to earn a living online? who cares where you actually earn through your link?
- Rob Sellen :o)
@Josh: It was a bit tongue in cheek :) I mean, who needs more help, me or Scoble. Well, maybe I'm biased.
- AJ Kohn
++josh ;o) very true, be yourself and stop idolising certain people and your view does become clearer. :o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
Ok... :o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
Robert Scoble is now officially spam.
- Josh Haley
The honnesty in affiliate revenues is easy to tell: A review that is supposed to describe you a product MUST include a disclosure about the affiliation. A simple link without a real review is called an Ad. What I mean, is that when you making a full review with list of advatnages, you have to tell me if you are affiliated with the product owner or not so I can tell if your review is biased or not.
- directeur
There is no need for disclosure. I automatically assume that everyone is out for a buck. If someone posts a link to a product, i'll just assume they might make something from my purchase. So what. If i want the product (i should have researched it), it was a useful tip and they may deserve a some referral income. This is very similar to viral marketing. Although scobleizer's link was in the clear, in the future they won't be. There's nothing we can do to stop it. It's simply capitalism doing its thing.
- ·[▪_▪]·
Josh: I didn't disclose because I didn't ask anyone to buy anything. In fact, I really hate the original Kindle (I sold mine a long time ago after giving it a horrible review). The link itself is disclosure, by the way. If you don't know how to read URLs you should learn how Amazon and other places work. This discussion is good for everyone to become more knowledgeable about that. By the way, I did disclose within minutes of posting that item. Louis asked me about it and I disclosed within a few minutes.
- Robert Scoble
I'm just messin' with him. I say go for it. Affiliate marketing has helped me too, I just haven't really pushed it on my friends yet.
- Josh Haley
As for it being spam: block him if you don't want to see it.
- ·[▪_▪]·
Robert, I think lot of people tend to assume "purposive behavior" when someone "steps out of line" (at least in their view). My first reaction was likewise. I think you've got enough social capital to ride through this controversy. :)
- Meryn Stol
Doesn't Robert Scoble live in America? Anyone heard of this crazy thing they do there...capitalism?! I can't believe he's trying to make a buck in a capitalist society...simply amazing! He want's food on his table? Clothes on his back. Ridiculous. Have him move to Cuba and roll cigars in the name of the homeland and earn a living the real way in a Communist state. That's how to capitalize. I can't believe this is news.
- Brian Bufalo
If I find a product I truly like, and have it myself, or I am planning to buy it, and I want to share it with everyone else, I'll go check to see if it's available on Amazon, and post the affiliate link. I don't see any problem with that. Conversely, if you post an affiliate link to something I want (amazon or anywhere else) I don't care that you make some commission, as long as I get the product I want at the price I am willing to pay.
- Ian May
louis, one way to monetize is to use community currencies.
- ernie yacub
I hope he gets rich--we will still be in his debt.
- Robert Linthicum
[stares into thread] For relaxing times... make it... Suntory time. [raises glass of whiskey] http://www.SUNTORY.com
- Karim
Robert...you only disclosed it AFTER getting "caught red handed" by your own addmission, you had NO real intention of doing a disclosure and you know it.... thats why you said "caught red handed"... either you had no intention, or hoped to not get spotted... but you were, now you say we "should learn how URLs work" as if we should know better... unbelievable.
- Rob Sellen :o)
robert linthicum.. why?? what do we owe him???
- Rob Sellen :o)
@Rob he's received far more publicity doing it the way he did than he would have with a pre-disclosure. It's all "meh" to me.
- Mattb4rd
@Mattb4rd I disagree, especially since when one says the alternative would be lessened yet there's no going back, no do overs to see what happens this renders your whole point moot. Openness & transparency beforehand would have rendered would have lessened the controversy
- sofarsoShawn <right here>
@shawn .. that's exactly my point. Controversy = publicity.
- Mattb4rd
Did I miss the worship Robert Scoble weekend memo? ;) Happy Birthday btw!
- Mona Nomura
yup just the tail end...
- sofarsoShawn <right here>
I don't get what the big deal is.... you guys are crazy. Hope ya got some bling, Robert. :)
- Adam Curry
I don't see the big deal, If you like the "product" and buy the product, the price is the price affiliate link or not.
- Ron"micronet"Harwood
Wow, Adam, it has been way too long since I have seen you. Nice to see you here on friendfeed.
- Robert Scoble
I think the link is disclosure enough and Robert is worth some extra money..
- Peter
All I can say is congratulations Robert for this important initiative! This is an excellent approach to start a discussion about monetization on Twitter, FF and others (One I support). We used to have the same reaction when advertising and affiliation came to blogs, those have now many supporters. There are many questions such as: should we find a standard (disclosure)? What about the platform own future monetization model? etc.
- Zack Brandit
Possessed? Demonetize the need demon. Focus on giving gifts of value and beauty without expecting gold. Value what cannot be bought or sold.
- Phil Boiarski
I don't see anything wrong with linking to amazon or affiliate links. I've got an amazon affiliate account. If I find a book that I like and am going to blog about it do I include my affiliate link. Sure. Why the heck not? If I talk about my Canon 5D M2, or drobo, or whatever, will I put one in? Sure. I've never seen anything wrong with any of that.
- Thomas Hawk
oh, and I also sell adds on my blog through Federated Media. Don't see a problem with that either.
- Thomas Hawk
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