This is from a 15-year-old who is very expert with world of warcraft, has a MySpace page, a Twitter account, a friendfeed account, is very active on Mac Rumors, etc.
- Robert Scoble
He is on more of the Internet than probably 9 out of 10 humans alive and he defines himself to a Google team by not owning a web site. Interesting.
- Robert Scoble
Making websites is time consuming and, in my opinion, not necessary if you simply need a place to publish to the web, talk with friends and get yourself out there.
- Brandon Titus
Renting vs owning in real estate terms?
- Micah Wittman
Alfredo: the unspoken message is that his generation doesn't need a web site. They'll still be a major part of the Internet.
- Robert Scoble
Its the same with my younger relatives... They have a far more natural approach to the new media "So do you kids use the Internet regulary?" - "No..... Not that much?" - "So what do you do when you go online" - "facebook, youtube, myspace, for school, for work..." - "how often do you check facebook?" - "hmmm few times A day"
- Andreas Klinger
It took me back to how I found my doctor. She's #1 on Yelp but yet had never been there. The world is changing and it no longer is only about having a website.
- Robert Scoble
Rob: there's some of that in what he was trying to say, yes. His generation wants to be "more with it" than the previous. But I think there's something deeper going on. The 2010 Web isn't about owning a web site anymore.
- Robert Scoble
He'll change his tune when someone with his name does something controversial and it's #1 on Google.
- Mark
Sounds like the teenager asked by Don Tapscott ("Wikinomics") about why she was not using email to communicate with friends. Reply: "Hmm ... email. That would be the sort of thing you'd use to send a thank you letter ... to your friend's ... parents!"
- John W Lewis
Mark: have you checked how fast friendfeed items are showing up on Google lately? I have. You don't need a blog or a web site to be on Google anymore.
- Robert Scoble
I think that domains will become mostly for business and the like while personal profiles will be controlled by social networks, profile sites (Google profiles) etc.
- Brandon Titus
@Robert maybe - or maybe it's about owning an identity you control which may indeed look like a website but function as an identity broker owned by the user
- Chris Saad
Some one still has to create the websites though. :-)
- Jesse Stay
Can I get out of making a website for my teenage son with these arguments?
- Anita Hunt
Chris: translation: own a Facebook profile. ;-)
- Robert Scoble
But does the _you_ own the Facebook profile?
- Micah Wittman
Your son has probably realized that most personal websites are never seen.
- Trine Curtis
I too agree that the new generations do not need a web site. What they need instead is a presence on this Interweb. This can be achieve in many other more effective means than a personal web site; in the traditional sense.
- Vinko
I have more ego than he. I'll be damned if I'm going to let Facebook own me and my profile. meh.
- Karoli
If you want to seed control of the social web to facebook then sure. Or maybe the next generation identity hub will be as distributed and open as a web-server
- Chris Saad
Micah makes a good point about renting vs owning. Also, some people just want communication, others will want permanence (that they own and control). I still suspect that as new generations age they will still want to create more of a legacy on their own domains.
- LogEx
Or does Facebook own it (in the possession is 9/10 of the law sense)
- Micah Wittman
It's the difference between having a web presences and a website... Just because I don't own my home doesn't mean I'm not a citizen.
- Johnny Worthington
Chris: his real identity is on MySpace. That's where his friends hang out and he's asked me not to link to his MySpace profile. Why not? Cause then all "my friends" will show up there. :-)
- Robert Scoble
It's all about getting the most out of the web. If your own website doesn't do it but a Facebook profile does, then by all means don't do your own website. Marketing still isn't dead though - act on results.
- Jesse Stay
It was never about having a website. It never will be. It will always will be using the right tools to reach the right people. People that you care about and people that care about you.
- Akshay Dodeja
The new generation's presence on the web will be fluid. They will not have one place where they blog, post photos or share their thoughts. It will transform as the technology transform.
- Vinko
Akshay: exactly. That was his message to me. Plus there was a tinge of "that blogging thing is so dead." Heheh.
- Robert Scoble
MySpace, Facebook, these are all nice walled gardens like AOL before them - but eventually the rest of the web will become just as rich and inviting as the walled gardens - and not because Facebook Connect.
- Chris Saad
Facebook Connect is a great proof of concept, but the real solution will be based on open standards just like the web is based on TCP/IP and HTTP
- Chris Saad
Chris: Facebook will be forced to open up. Why? Because Google will show them the money is in search and to do search, even in the real time web, you need to open up.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, sounds like there's an opportunity to show him why it could be useful, if not now, perhaps in the future for him.
- Jesse Stay
We'll be ripe for a backlash in a few years, especially if services don't keep moving in the direction of data portability.
- LogEx
Robert: I have tried to many times to start a blog. Failed each and every time. Now I am trying different things and its working in some ways :)
- Akshay Dodeja
Actually it's friendfeed that's going to show them that, but Google will be recognized by most of the world and Google definitely is moving to make sure that they are a player in the real time web.
- Robert Scoble
No Facebook will open up because Google, Microsoft, Yahoo and others are working actively to dilute their lock on the social graph. It's in google's interest to continue to erode Facebooks monopoly so they can continue to index the social web
- Chris Saad
Chris: sorry, that's a side show. The real action is going to happen in search. Or, something associated with filtered display.
- Robert Scoble
The community has an opportunity to work with the 'loosers' and the startups to ensure that we don't crown a new king, but rather to push the web as the ultimate platform
- Chris Saad
Facebook only competes with Google on the private web. Until they offer indexed, public search they will never be able to compete side-by-side with Google. They only offer a subset of what Google provides right now.
- Jesse Stay
Awesome to see this conversation in "real time"
- David Damore
Chris: the REAL money is NOT on the social graph. I can see this so clearly. Very few can, though.
- Robert Scoble
@robert the real money is (imho) not in search but in knowing about the user - search is just yet the best way to know about him/her - facebook could deliever social enhanced adwords to the internet
- Andreas Klinger
I'm not arguing about that - but if Facebook was left unchecked then they could own the new social search and monetizing the user not the page. That's why Google will work hard to erode Facebook's monopoly to ensure they stay in the game
- Chris Saad
Andreas: that's what search looks like in the future.
- Robert Scoble
Chris: true, but Google is NOT going to leave Facebook unchecked. Facebook needs to move much faster than it is, actually.
- Robert Scoble
@Robert the real value is in the stream and being able to index it - which Google can't do with the Facebook feed
- Chris Saad
Users are not monetizeable, by the way. Intent and other "about to consume" gestures are. I want an icecream is monetizeable. Eating an ice cream is not.
- Robert Scoble
Eating chocolate icecream every wed IS
- Chris Saad
It means you like dairy, chocolate and sweets on wed
- Chris Saad
@Robert "i know you could now want an ice cream" is worth even more imho
- Andreas Klinger
Chris: that's an "about to consume" gesture. Agreed. :-)
- Robert Scoble
The real value is in being able to index the *entire* web, and knowing each user that is searching that entire web. Facebook isn't anywhere near being able to do that.
- Jesse Stay
Andreas: or, if you are Gary Vaynerchuk you can make me want a merlot-flavored ice cream. That's worth the most. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Jesse: Facebook has an index that Google can't get to and it pisses off Google.
- Robert Scoble
@Robert Look forward to debating this with u in person tmr at 6pm
- Chris Saad
Isn't the idea of social profiles a search to figure out what a user wants next, now? Like how people visit car websites before buying an automobile?
- David Damore
Robert, Google has many indexes Facebook can't get to as well - Gmail, Orkut, Docs, Apps, many more...
- Jesse Stay
But wait, surely he does have a web site, a blog, etc.? They are his Facebook page!
- John W Lewis
@Jesse which is why Google, Yahoo, Microsoft etc are still in the game - the notion that 'Facebook has won' is just valley hype
- Chris Saad
With the kind of information that Google is tracking isn't Google in the best place to monetize our conversations?
- Vinko
There are 2 things we're talking about here - the "private web" and the "public web". Facebook has one. Google has both.
- Jesse Stay
No we're talking about the document web vs. the Social web :)
- Chris Saad
Chris, Google has both of those as well.
- Jesse Stay
@Jesse agreed - Google is still going very strong - and should/will buy FF and Twitter to strengthen their position
- Chris Saad
I dont like facebook, to me its a lot of social drama...
- sergio luna
Jesse: Google's Infos about the Socialgraphs are too fuzzy. Gmail is like my telephone calllist - not my telephone adressbook
- Andreas Klinger
Chris, or, just strengthen one of their existing products to compete. Google Chat stands out to me.
- Jesse Stay
Andreas you should see my Google Voice address book. It wouldn't take much to connect that all together.
- Jesse Stay
@Andreas Google's graphs are super active. Noise for google = pointers to the signal - that's what they do best
- Chris Saad
Short question: am i the only one thinking that Social Widgets (Facebook Apps at external Sites) combined with an Advert System is an most interesting thing to come ?
- Andreas Klinger
@Jesse their best bet is Gmail and Address book integrated with FriendFeed
- Chris Saad
I don't like Facebook either. Now people I thought I'd left behind 20 years ago are finding me again. Yay. But more importantly, someone said ice cream.
- Trine Curtis
Jesse: Yet, in my network, Skype Chat is much more widely used than Google Chat.
- John W Lewis
Chris, agreed - there's a reason Facebook, Twitter, and FriendFeed all let you import your Gmail contacts. They want Google's private web.
- Jesse Stay
@Andreas No you're not - If Facebook owns the social graph/stream then they will try to own the widgets and ad units - that's why the rest of the web needs to provide a viable alternative so that there is no new monopoly.
- Chris Saad
I think that Google will strengthen it's social system by bringing in contact finding through the social graph from services like FriendFeed, Twitter, and maybe Facebook and clearing out the noise. Their contact manager or whatever will be strengthened once they have a real Google Chat, Google Voice, and Gmail working together.
- Brandon Titus
I love coming over to FriendFeed to always see an amazingly active thread going on in the Scobleverse!!
- Jason Pollock
in my network microsoft msn is the leader...neither skype or google chat are as strong
- sergio luna
John, I'm talking about strength of the social graph in each one. Skype doesn't hold a finger to Google's contacts.
- Jesse Stay
Sergio, agreed - Microsoft also has a very big potential to compete. I'd say they're more a threat to Google than Facebook right now in this area.
- Jesse Stay
All of these platforms have their advantages - the point is they are all social services and should inter operate for the benefit of the user - and benefit the bottom line of the companies that make it happen
- Chris Saad
(Meta-point: this conversation IS the live web in action, but how does it scale? What happens to the quality of conversation if the rate of commenting on this topic exceeds my reading speed?)
- John W Lewis
Then again, in the competition for people, once you're indexing every person with web access, you also have access to their lives, websites, and personal data. That's much more powerful than an anonymous index of every website on the planet. Facebook could have a chance.
- Jesse Stay
This conversation is a byproduct of the the live web - but it's not much more than an indexable chatroom. The status updates and feeds that generate this conversation are the real interesting part
- Chris Saad
@Jesse that's Facebook's play - and that's why Google and others are working to dilute the monopoly (a monopoly of mindshare at least) - that's why the community at large has an opportunity to support an open approach
- Chris Saad
During times of change, we have an opportunity to ensure the outcome is open - open means innovation can surge ahead at the nodes instead of being controlled by a central authority
- Chris Saad
Chris, at the same time indexing each individual rather than website could be more advantageous in the end. Google's not doing that quite as well as Facebook. That's not to say they won't, and they're definitely making progress at the moment. Google doesn't necessarily publish what they're tracking about you. Facebook does, via the live stream when you log in - which is more open per se?
- Jesse Stay
For an interesting look at the cross-section of marketing / customer behaviour (mostly off-line, but the web is part of the story) and obsession, check out this documentary on contesters ("professional" contest participants) - just saw it on a plane ride http://www.cbc.ca/doczone... [Interestingly, when I searched for this documentary, I found the guy who pitched the...
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- Micah Wittman
Jesse by this argument is google "publically tracking for you that you publish your webpage"
- Andreas Klinger
Jesse, its just different type of technology you use - Stream.put or Ftp.put
- Andreas Klinger
History will repeat! I started with email on CompuServe and did not communicate with others on other services, then discovered "internet mail". As with hardware, software, email and now social media, the architecture of vertical silos will gradually transform into horizontal layers ... from below! Only then does the "network effect" really start!
- John W Lewis
Andreas, do you know everything Google has tracked about you? What about all the Analytics tracking on each website you visit combined with data they've learned about you elsewhere? With Google, there's no way to opt-out without just killing your internet connection. At least with Facebook, it's opt-in. Google, IMO, has the potential to be much more evil than Facebook. That is, unless Facebook enters the open web arena.
- Jesse Stay
Jesse, this tracking is not public on facebook neither
- Andreas Klinger
Jesse, true Google is big enough to pass the last frontier point of relationship to reality
- Andreas Klinger
Andreas, I know almost everything Facebook is tracking on me because they at least publish most of it via my stream. True, I don't know everything, but I know a lot. Not only that but they give me controls on what they can do with what they're tracking. I can't do that with Google.
- Jesse Stay
Jesse, the stream info is your active part not your passive part
- Andreas Klinger
Jesse anyway i think we are talking about the same :)
- Andreas Klinger
Ok gotta go for a slow-real-life Meeting - cya!
- Andreas Klinger
I really think its not about who will conquer what i.e. google, facebook, etc... I really believe all this players are the basics, like the old economic scheme, I think we are going to evolve and use all this sites & technology in a very diverse and sophisticated form, kind of like what the brand Starbucks is to the old industry of coffee. google, facebook etc. are the industrial plants of our new digital era.
- sergio luna
Andreas, agreed, but I can still opt in to Facebook. I can't opt-in or opt-out of Google completely. I'm just saying it's not all about "open" like Google would like you to think. That's just their Marketing play, and we're all falling for it.
- Jesse Stay
Are we forgetting something? Facebook, Google, ... ARE websites. It is just about the level at which we engage. I do not need to build my own car to drive on the road; I can buy one, it is cheaper. But if I buy a Lamborghini or Porsche, I can still interact (inc. collide!) with you in your Mercedes! (For the public record, I drive an Audi.) Robert recently posted about geek disconnect, these guys are making the web consummable.
- John W Lewis
So we've finally found the one person in the world who doesn't want to friend you on FB!
- Rebecca Rachmany
From the mouths of babes... or 15year olds. At least we can count on things constantly changing just a little faster than many can adapt to.
- Mark Essel
Makes me feel better for not updating my website anymore - I'm not behind, I'm ahead :D
- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
"I don't have a web site" indeed. My kids were not interested in learning how to create websites. "We have blogs on our cell phones." Well, then...
- Rick Cogley
your son's approach doesn't sound as absurd as it might seem at first. look at skittles, who dropped their website and transfered everything to twitter! and i was just thinking the other day about an ngo-website i'm involved in and why not moving it completely over to a facebook page.
- Johannan Edelman
we all remember friendfeed's recent downtime, illustrating the difficulty of keeping these massive services running, and perhaps suggesting a need for distributed systems
- Mike Chelen
So Steve, you're telling me I should no longer be hand-coding my rss feed in Microsoft Word? ;)
- Richard Querin
Oh, is RSS down too?....I was being facitious, of course. Disclosure: I love both RSS and Twitter streams (Is that an oxymoron statement?). Disclaimer: I don't like RSS readers.
- William Mougayar
Trusting some tech companies more and more seems like the trust children place in their parents re: Santa Clause. It's only a matter of time before the kids learn the truth, but oh what fun while the illusion lasts.
- Jim Posner
today was the day I drifted over to FriendFeed and I love how it has improved (i've been out of the loop for a while)
- Derek Lords
Something’s happening its sort of broken ? #wikiwikiwow @puffaddering
- Jason
Thanks, at leat we know they are working on it.
- Micky
For now, Hulu is just a big FAIL in Europe. It's a shame that Internet users neither boycott region-only services nor offer an alternative way to get their content. The digital divide will only get wider if users don't force companies to think globally.
- Jérôme Flipo
They're different products, Hulu is replacing TV, Youtube is a place for everything except TV. Easier to push TV ads to Hulu so it'll continue to make more of a profit than Youtube.
- Adam Pieniazek
@mashable I kind of agree with Adam Pieniazek 'YouTube & Hulu' are different animals. Hulu is premier video-on-demand, one of the downside of Hulu its not international.
- Julie Williams
I don't think user generated or viral videos will have a place on Hulu and people go there with the same mindset as turning on their TV. Real content and willing to sit through commercials. I think people go to youtube to watch a specific video embedded in a site and then get sucked down the youtube rabbit hole time suck that is...entertaining. When users start cretaing enough...
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- Kevin Murray
YouTube is the future of On-Line video because it fosters user participation, whereas hulu is big because it brings mainstream video on-line. Hulu is also not international, as has been pointed out, another downfall.
- Garin Kilpatrick
They'll converge. Both will have licensed/advertising and democratic content.
- Phil Wolff
Where's the European licensee??Localized advertisers must see the value, and be clamoring. Or, they just don't get it.
- Adam Jochum
No one should get lifetime job guarantees. It's nonsensical. If you do a good job, you should get to keep your job. If you don't you get fired. Lifetime job guarantees only hurt productivity. Why try if you know you can never be fired?
- Adam Pieniazek