staged controversy. Rest assured MA and JC know what they're doing. - brian dear
Does controversy as linkbait *solve* anything? Then current MSM must have world peace in their pocket... - Robert Worstell
Seems to me that TechCrunch should have asked permission ahead of time. Maybe you should add a copyright and rights statement at the end of every newsletter, Jason. - Vermyndax
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Smells like link bait for all involved. TC gets controversy and links. Mahalo layoffs become background noise to same controversy. Net result more links to Mahalo and TC. - Alex Nesbitt
Wow, seriously? I always thought Jason gave Arrington implicit permission to post on TC, especially since this all happened around the TC50 awards which Jason was very instrumental in organizing. However, I've always wondered why TC would do that. Jason stopped blogging, after all, so why not give another blog the ability to sound off with his thoughts? (I still think Jason should return to blogging.) - Tamar Weinberg
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks." - Stephan Miller
I wish I had known Marc. He seems like the kinda of dude I would have learned from. Which, is my favorite kinda dude. - Micah Baldwin
I never met Marc - but I remember the day he passed away well - because it was like watching a lot of my twitter friends get punched in the gut and then hit by a truck. His legacy is strong in that he impacted folks who never even met him - and apparently, he will keep on impacting people. That's a good thing. - Lucretia Pruitt
I am sorry for the loss even though i never met him and thought that the article was very well written and made me when to learn more thank you - Cecil Sandus
He had me until the last two paragraphs...
"The a-list died because we’re tired of them and their incessant drama and posturing for attention...."
"The a-list died because guys like Loren Feldman exposed them...."
These two comments smell of the constant jealousy I see from the NON-A-Listers. As for Feldman, he's just realized that it's easier to get attention by burning down a barn than building one.
I like the rest of the post and think it has great merit. - ScottBourne
Oh delicious irony... The only reason I just read that was because two of my 'A-List' heroes, Mr Bourne and Mr Scoble, brought it to my attention on FriendFeed... mmm thats tasty! - Johnny Worthington
Thanks for the promotion John but I'm hardly an A-Lister. Scoble - absolutely. He still has large influence as do all the "A-listers." But I do think that the time is coming soon when everyone will be an A-lister. I don't agree that the A-List is dead. I just think everyone else will soon be invited to join in and be part of that list. - ScottBourne
I don't think the A-list is dead, it's just less exclusive because of the new communication tools available. The A-list will probably get bigger, making each individual member less dominant, but it will still exist. - Kevin Bondelli
Scott, I agree that everyone is now getting the chance to become an A-Lister. But an A-Lister in what? I think the author may have missed a point slighty. It's not that I have a shot at becoming well know and respected, it's I can now choose to filter out those people or subjects that do not intrest me. I do regard you as an A-Lister in the rhelm of photography, Mac, certainly iPhones and podcast creation but to someone else that may not be the case. Social media has empowered chioce. - Johnny Worthington
And certainly the fact people like you and Robert haven't had to play all the 'corporate' games and have the power over your own brands and content has allowed far more genuine and personal relationship to form with the people who areintrested and trust your opinions. - Johnny Worthington
If they A-List is not yet dead, it is certainly becoming less important as blogging and social media normalize and more people use them as part of their personal and business life. While each day, Scoble's followers may still rise, the growth of social media is such that rises faster, giving Scoble a smaller share of the whole universe every day. - shelisrael1
Purely from the outsider perspective, why are some folks getting so up in arms about this? Isn't it a good thing to have more voices in the mix? More channels in which more can contribute their thoughts and ideas. So far, Robert whom I have yet to "meat" in the RW, has come across to me as a pretty decent person. - Mathew A. Koeneker
I'm not in the A-list because my last name does not begin with the letter 'A'. Let's all just move on from this nonsense, shall we? - Akiva Moskovitz
No matter what the medium, some people will get more attention than others. It was true when George Washington entered the doors of the Constitutional Convention of 1787, it's true today when (insert name here) writes a blog post, and it will be true in 2727 when Miraloma Xanadu sends her brain waves to the Bigg Sstar. Perhaps the new technologies may accelerate the turnover of names on the A list, but the technologies won't change humans' basic nature; we'll always consider a few people as "experts" who must be heard. - Ontario Emperor
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Miraloma Xanadu is totally overrated. She conspired to get me fired off Space Dock 13 and has been ganging up on me ever since. - Kevin Bondelli
@Ontario: Miraloma will have to use brainwaves in 2727 cause Twitter still won't work by then... :P - Johnny Worthington
I'm with Kevin. Miraloma Xanadu is a hack. She still owes me 2.7 gigacredits from that time she "forgot" her chips and I had to buy her lunch. She's not that interesting in RL. Heck, she's not that interesting on the net, either. And don't get me started on her B2B (brain-to-brain) show. ugh. - ha3rvey
Jim makes excellent points. I don't see it as a negative but a need to simply evolve as conversations and influence become increasingly mobile. While it is true that everyone has the potential to have reach not all will become thought leaders or influencers. Everyone can present themselves as an expert but not everyone has expertise. - Karen Swim
The contention that there is no more A-list can be proven (more or less) mathematically. It is generally accepted (though not universally) that the blogosphere (and Hollywood, and most social networks) are scale-free networks -- meaning, the network has an A-list and a "long tail." If you count the nodes in the network and the number of connections per node, you can identify which nodes are in the A-list and which nodes are in the tail. - Karim
A large part of A-list authority involves *access*, to people making news, new products in the pipeline and simple geographic proximity (Silicon Valley) to the center of gravity. That won't change very quickly. - Sprague D
If the author is saying "the A-list is dead," he is saying one of two things: either the nodes in the A-list have changed -- and networks change all the time, nodes gain and lose connections, this is no surprise -- or, he is saying the network is no longer a *scale-free* network, it is a flat network, the A-list doesn't exist at all. The first contention is common sense. It can be established quantifiably. The second contention seems less likely. - Karim
Circle jerk. The blind leading the blind. A herd of independent minds. Strong and original minds usually do not clump together in conclaves of mutual navel-gazing. (Btw, some of the A-listers ARE strong and independent minds. A-listedness was thrust upon them; they didn't seek it out.) - Sean McBride
Jim Kukral might have pronounced the A-list as dead, but sometimes reports of something's death are exaggerated. ;-) Robert Scoble might be saying "about time," but it seems to me he does a good job of hopping on new social networks, gobbling up connections to other nodes. Except for maybe Plurk. heh - Karim
I'm calling BS and linkbait. There will always be an A-list. As humans, we are incapable of existing without instituting some sort of royalty. And for every person who stared at Scoble with dead eyes, I heard "Hey Robert!" just as often (mind you, that wouldn't have happened HERE, for instance, but I took it as normal in the abnormal world of California). - Cyndy
@Sean, not that I'm disagreeing with you ;-) but in the human population, what is the distribution of "strong and original minds?" :-D - Karim
Karim: .01%? In any case, as a rule they don't tend to get too cozy with one another. - Sean McBride
@LAG, we do. Through our reading/following behavior. - Sprague D
It's like the Supreme Court said about porn, you know an A-lister when you see one. For example, Scoble is obviously A-list because there are 21 comments to him saying three words. - Kevin Bondelli
One can quibble over the methods of definition. How do you determine the most popular songs in any given week? Store purchases? Radio airplay? Legal downloads? Illegal downloads? We've been working on that problem for decades. I don't think there's a consensus on how to measure the A-list (reads? links? mentions in Google? mentions on Truemors?), or what the boundary is between A-list and B-list. - Ontario Emperor
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so it's like the 'cool kids' table in the cafeteria back in high school? and like that table, outside of the school walls, it didn't mean much to anyone else? - .LAG
Ontario, yes, the demarcation is somewhat arbitrary -- it could just as well be "Top 97" or "Top 103" instead of "Top 100" -- but it seems a bit like the author might have been saying there was NO TOP. First he says "it's dying," then he changes his mind and says no wait, it's dead, it's been *eliminated.* That means there is no A-list, and that young Billie Jean Schmuckington's compilation of her favorite LOLcats carries just as much weight as Scoble. :-D - Karim
.LAG, yes, it's exactly like that. Usually when you talk about network effects, you constrain the discussion to a specific network. That was one problem with the article -- was the author talking about blogs? Or FriendFeed? Or Facebook? Or the Intarwebs in general? Different networks will have different A-lists. The lunch table A-list probably doesn't matter much on FriendFeed, and vice versa. - Karim
I'm perfectly happy with life on the D list, myself. - Helen Sventitsky
I keep leaving a comment on the post, but then it disappears. Main points were: Blogosphere growing up is a good thing, but the A-list isn't going to die, just weaken. - David Cohn
I'm holding down the Green list...we just use colors now that the alphabets taken up - Brian Ries
I'm not so sure the alist is dead so much as it has to follow the natural course and be transformed. We love the very idea of celebrity, and we will have our celebrities no matter what or where we can find them. Some of these guys will be among the new a-listers and there will be some new faces to come as well. - Dane morgan
definitely agree I think tools like Friendfeed have significantly controbuted to this - Nick O'Neill
I've said this in...another place, but there will always be an A-list, whether you're talking tech or entertainment or politics or whatever. Perhaps there's a more rapid overturning of the tech A-list, but the A-list is there. Perhaps by July 2009, people will turn to Loren, you, and me for advice, but they'll still turn somewhere. Theoretically, the web provides everyone with an equal pulpit, but some are more equal than others. - Ontario Emperor
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Here's the truth on the matter. If Jason wants to toss out blogging in favor of a one-way conversation via a newsletter, then what is everyone's motivation to follow him on Twitter? What about friendfeed? I'm debating whether or not I want to keep tabs on him anymore. - Shawn Farner
That's what I have been thinks since I seen the post - Kevin Tunis
I love how the person who wrote this entry ended it with "..and I refuse to care". Well, then why did you waste your time writing about it? - Candace Holly
Candace, I wrote about it because I think Jason is trying to put one over on us. The part I refuse to care about is if he's actually quitting. Plus, it was meant to be humorous :-) - mathew ingram
Mathew: I totally agree. Jason loves creating drama. This was totally about that. - Robert Scoble
drama - absolutely & mathew is that what :-) means - humor ;) - mike "glemak" dunn
I stopped following Jason the same time the Mahalo spam started. - Tac Anderson
Am I the only one calling "who cares?" I mean alright, if Calacanis decided he was disappearing from the internet, selling Mahalo and going to retire somewhere in North Carolina then we'd have some news. But, he's not blogging anymore. OK...? He's still got Mahalo, he's still very present on the social networks, I'm sure we'll hear him on TWiT again soon...I just really don't see it to be something so relevant that I've seen a ton of blog posts about it today. - Candace Holly
i'd rather read this than all the iphone posts... just saying - Mona N.
This sounds like when David Bowie and Frank Sinatra initially "retired" from performing. - Helen Sventitsky
Feldman called and want's his shtick back Jason. - Jim Kukral
Heh I thought this was a WinExtra headline. Glad to see it was Ingram :) - Jason Kaneshiro
I don't believe half the spin, but he's made a call for email, Twitter, FF, and other platforms over his blog. I don't believe it will be a trend, but as we consume more and more services, people will start dropping off parts as the whole thing gets more unmanageable. Either that or his testing the waters to start a paid email list service - Duncan Riley
It means someone is going to make a "Leave Jason Alone" video. - Candace Holly
I can sympathize with him so cut him some slack, people. Blogging is hard. Being in the spotlight is hard. He is moreso than me, but its still hard. I think of hanging up my cleats everyday and one day I'll do the same. Fact is, this could be a media stunt. Not like he hasn't pulled one before, but please.. if not, cut him some slack. :) - Aaron Brazell
Jason is way too in love with telling us loudly and often about how cool is his to stay aay. He might be having a momentary rough patch but the second he buys another quater million dollar luxury sports car he will need an audience to brag to right away. HE wont wait for email. - Soulhuntre
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I blocked him about 4 months ago and don't regret it one bit. He takes unfair advantage of his community IMHO. Jason Nation = bunch of wannabee penguins if you ask me. - Brian Daniel Eisenberg
My only hope is that certain other (and unnamed) "A-List" bloggers follow suit. - Ross McKillop
Honestly, I'd miss Jason and I'm looking forward to his comeback tour. Then again, I see a lot of the A-list antics in the same way that a lot of people see Soap Operas. I'm not proud of enjoying it but I do. - Steve Spalding
Damnit. I thought I'd managed to prune the pro-bloggers gossip-arama from my feed - Slippy Lane
I have zero problem with this. Anyone who can look at something popular, see that they don't want to be a part of it anymore and walk away from it has boat loads of courage and deserves all the respect we can muster. - Roberto Bonini
I think Jason's post was hilarious, and that he was honestly giving up blogging, in an entertaining way. I'd much rather read something like Jason's post than another super-serious "Why I'm Giving Up Blogging Forever" post. As others have said, good blogging takes time and work, and I can understand if he's walking away from it. (I can also understand if he changed his mind and came back, for what it's worth.) - Brent Newhall
america needs more chaos before enough energy for change gets created, obama is our man for that - Gregory Lent
you're joking, of course - however don't be surprised if you're contacted by secret service for this "threat"... :-) - Andy Green
Anyone who has seen the content of the unwarranted wiretaps has fully supported them.... not saying that makes it right but it does make them necessary. - Aaron deMello
Aaron -- can you document your statement about the content of unwarranted wiretaps? - Sean McBride
Nothing makes them "necessary". What's happening now is exactly the type of oppression the sons of liberty revolted against. - Adam Turetzky
Even if _everyone_ "supported" the wiretaps based on the content, Aaron...the point is that it's not good enough. We have laws. - Ken Kennedy
@Sean McBride - the tricky part is getting into specifics, which I can't. I am in the surveillance biz (or was, rather) and the ugly aspect for law enforcement is that the 'bad guys' (for lack of a better term) are better armed - with PGP, HushMail, stenography, casual SecondLife or Habbo meetups, etc. Makes it almost impossible to trace their convos. For all the $ in the world I would not want the job of an analyst following up on a FISA warrant. - Aaron deMello
@Ken Kennedy - great name, btw - I agree in principle but data is like fishing - you catch it when its there in front of you, or you kiss it goodbye. The sons of liberty have a very hard time trying to find the balance between protecting our rights and exploiting technology for their goals - which protect our way of life. The FISA laws worked well in the past but today - rest assured that the guys we are looking for are far more adept at exploiting the tools than we allow our boys to be. - Aaron deMello
@Aaron...don't take this the wrong way, but spare me. If it's against the law, you kiss it goodbye. You and I both know that the FISA law as (it was at the time) written allows for "catching it when it's there"...it's just more of a pain. It's DESIGNED to be a pain. We're not /supposed/ to be spying on people without warrants. Once upon a time, we (rightly) condemned other countries for doing this. *sigh* - Ken Kennedy
And please, no movie plots. kthx. *grin* And thanks for chatting, btw. Seriously. We need to have these discussions out in the open; it's important for our society. - Ken Kennedy
@Ken Kennedy - sure, they are designed to be a pain. I just don't think its fair that we have to play the very same game under extremely different rules. Should our lofty ideals be preserved in the name of security? That is the question that will be debated for the next few generations but personally I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt to those charged with tackling the problem, rather than us - the peanut gallery. - Aaron deMello
@Aaron...you laid that out rather well, thanks. And we disagree (which is ok) on alot. *grin* Probably the most important difference to me is actually at the end there; the peanut gallery comment. We're not the peanut gallery, Aaron...we are where those "charged with tackling the problem" derive their power from. This is no divine right monarchy; we're a cantankerous republic where the people ultimately run the show. Good questions, though! - Ken Kennedy
OMG, what a dumb-ass thing to do for a seasoned media guy like Jesse. FAIL! - John McCrea
If it was a Republican folks woudl be screaming racism. Apparently Jesse gets a pass. - Soulhuntre
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Had a flash on Obama and FISA. When he's elected Pres he uses FISA authority to legally eavesdrop on George Dubya Bush without court oversight, Private Citizen and ex-president, and leaks the juiciest bits to Olbermann. Puts him on the terror watch list, and while you're at it puts him in Guantanamo. Gives paparzzi full access. - Dave Winer
@Ken Kennedy - agreed. I believe in the end, perhaps not the means. - Aaron deMello
Aaron: How many terrorists have been convicted of terrorist activities in the United States as the result of warrantless wiretapping? How many cases against alleged terrorists have fallen part? How many times have neoconservatives accused their political opponents of being "terrorists"? How many despotic and state terrorist regimes throughout history have used the threat of "terrorism" to acquire and protect their power? So many interesting questions on this issue. - Sean McBride
@Sean - all those are very interesting questions and there are many more. My sentiment is that we are severely outclassed in the war on terror given all the legal restrictions that are not shared by the enemy. Even the simple act of getting a warrant to expose the phone calls of a unidentified pre-paid SIM card can be a living nightmare. How can one get a warrant when you don't even know if the subscriber is a suspect? These and other complex issues are the ones facing the intelligence community today. - Aaron deMello
Dave, I owe you an apology. I was sure you had made up that comment about what Jesse Jackson said. I think Jesse just threw himself under the bus. When is the last time he was relevant? - ha3rvey
I thought the fact that Obama voted for the FISA would be indicative that he was already neutered? - Vidar Andersen
Aaron: history proves that the most dangerous terrorists in the world are state terrorists, like the Nazi, Stalinist and Maoist regimes, which collectively murdered more than 100 million people in the 20th century. State terrorists typically define all their political opponents as "terrorists," and then proceed to spy on them, torture them and murder them without any legal restraints. The values of the neoconservatives who have dominated the Bush administration are directly antithetical to those of the visionaries who created the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights. - Sean McBride
Aaron: If I don't break into your house to find the dismembered bodies, how can I prove that you're an axe murderer? - David Worrell
Dave, Obama's vot eon FISA was simply a political consideration. Need to get him elected, then fix the FISA problem. - ron k jeffries
Aaron: focusing on the first question: to the best of my knowledge, no one has been convicted of being a terrorist or being involved in terrorist activities as a result of warrantless wiretapping. Do you agree? I don't think it's worth trashing the Constitution and Bill of Rights to promote police state methods that were pioneered by Stalin and Hitler and that have produced such meager results. - Sean McBride
Ron: Obama's position on FISA demonstrates that he is politically tone deaf and may well not get elected. What made him a viable candidate was the enthusiasm of his base, which he has now destroyed. Most Americans do not support the FISA bill -- it's not even a "center" issue. It's a hard right neoconservative issue. Check out the discussion of this controversy on On Point Radio today <http://tinyurl.com/6crxv6> and especially note the exchanges between Tom Ashbrook and Glenn Greenwald. - Sean McBride
Ron, respectfully: I don't think it's right to 'play politics' with a bill that undercuts the constitutional balance of power itself. I'll still vote for him. But this makes him just another 'lesser evil' to me. - Madsimian
Dave Winer makes an important point: once a police state machine and culture is installed in any government, it will be used by any political faction that acquires control of it to destroy the political opposition. The American Founding Fathers were acutely aware of this problem, and that is why they created the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights. Bush 43 and the neocons are perhaps the most anti-American and anti-democratic political movement ever to arise to a position of commanding power in the United States. - Sean McBride
Harvey, he's relevant to the companies he's shaken down for money and donations for percieved abuses. - Jason Shultz
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Sean: we will never know the answer to that question, which is the entire purpose of the warrant-less wire-tapping program. The results of the program were never going to be used as evidence, at least not in a public court. Like I said before, there are always challenges in a democracy where the need to balance public safety with personal privacy becomes a very gray area. As to the effectiveness of the program, this is something else we will never know, since we have no idea how many attacks were prevented. - Aaron deMello
Aaron: any totalitarian dictator anywhere in the world, following in the footsteps of Stalin, Hitler and Mao, could use some of the arguments we have seen here to construct a terrorist police state that is completely unaccountable. Neocons like John Yoo, David Addington and Alberto Gonzales really don't get America and the thinking of the American Founding Fathers, in my opinion. They are paranoid authoritarians by temperament who fear a free and open society which encourages political dissent. - Sean McBride
Sean: Paranoia does play a part in it, and some paranoia can be healthy. At the same time, I'd rather have hawks than doves protecting my freedoms, and will grant them the wiggle room necessary to do what they feel must be done. What did you think of the voting numbers? 69 to 28? - Aaron deMello
Aaron: any political movement which thinks nothing of trashing the Constitution, while labeling its mainstream American political opponents as "terrorists" and "traitors" (yes, the neocons have done this repeatedly -- check out the log of these events on Media Matters for America), is only interested in destroying our freedoms, not protecting them. The neocons are the last people in the world who should be trusted with any control over police state technologies and institutions in the United States. (Are you aware that Nazis rose to power in Germany under the pretext of protecting Germans from "the terrorists"?) - Sean McBride
As has been pointed out to me, it's not the fault of the telcos that Bush and company failed to get the necessary warrants (which they can legally do after the fact). So there's good reason to protect the telcos from civil trials. Remember, it was Bush who broke the law. Don't make this about Obama. He didn't violate the 4th Amendment. That was the President, who's sworn to protect and uphold the Constitution. - phil.gs
Based on the FISA vote, there's nothing to cut. - Michael Markman
The main effect of Lessig's annoying taunt will be to further alienate what was once Obama's base. Lessig just doesn't get it. On the other hand, McCain is such a weak candidate that there is very little Obama could do at this point to lose the election. Word is that the McCain campaign is seriously demoralized. - Sean McBride
Openess and transparency, crucial to democracy and feared by the government. - Jack Carlson
I can only assume that this is certainly not the last we'll be hearing about this. Private companies are only just starting to understand that these 'new' media channels actually contribute - and should be factored into - their overall PR and communication strategy. It's no wonder that the government will lag behind them, and I (sadly) foresee this initial endeavor to limit their usage being just the first of many years of debate on these topics. - Aubrey Sabala
“It's interesting to me how the "a-list" are freaking out about losing control. Why? Because friendfeed and everything else is loosening in their hold and leveling the playing field. This is why you see so many clammoring for followers. It reminds me of why sites...”
like Revenews failed as a meta blog years ago because people no longer needed a meta blog to blog. Anyone could do it. The same is true with what were seeing now. Anyone can be an "a-lister" and be part of the conversation and get tons of followers and get known. The lines of fame are fading fast for the elite. I think that's a good thing. No offense to those at the top, I'm just saying. - Jim Kukral
I think you need to clarify what you mean by a-list because there are significant portions of the proverbial a-list who are not doing this. The ones that are are the ones who have relied soley on their political capital as "entrepreneurs" and don't engage anywhere, really, except on Diggnation. :) - Aaron Brazell
Hmmm. I think the opposite is going on. There is great concentration of influence in a relatively small group of A-listers. The current crop of social media tools is widening the attention/influence wealth gap. - John McCrea
Aaron, you know who I'm talking about. Nothing against them, but before things like Twitter and Friendfeed, it was easy for them to remain "on top". But tools like these have really leveled the playing field. If you put in the effort to work these channels you can rise quickly and get "known". That's all I'm saying. - Jim Kukral
And by the way, I'm not a-list. I'm z-list, according to Feldman anyway :), and yes, I do clamor for followers on my blog and other places. Well, I promote my signups at least. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion. - Jim Kukral
Ya I'm not saying it's not happening but I haven't seen it- maybe because I'm not paying attention to these A-listers, in which case, I have humorously underlined part of your comment :-) - Brian Carter
I see FriendFeed, twitter and other social networking tools putting those of us who aren't on the a-list on the same footing as the so called a-listers. A tool on the Internet is doing just what the Internet did for small business, solos and for people who work at home, narrowing the gap to large business. - Grant Griffiths
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Social networking tools narrow the gap between a-listers and the non-a-listers. But you still have to be willing to take advantage of the tools available. You can't just stand by and hope the tools available will just work because they are there. - Grant Griffiths
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"Hi LaPrentiss,
Come to the affiliate summit! There's TONS of sessions that are very much like classes for affiliates...it's definitely a worthwhile show to attend." - Trisha Fawver
Some joke. They go after his sponsors, so guess what -- now he doesn't have a sponsor. That's a joke? Only if you're a sadist. Maybe if it's so much fun to be mocked by Calacanis and hisfriends, they should start picking on some people who could fight back and maybe hurt them. It's cowardly to pick on Shel, who has too much pride to say how much this is hurting him. Maybe Calacanis shoudl offer to sponsor Shel's show to show he's not such a bad guy. He's rich, Shel is not. All around this is disgusting. People who think they can have fun while hurting someone else need to take a good look in the mirror. - Dave Winer
I don't find the situation funny at all. The average age of bullying seems to have shot up immensely as the web matures. Too bad some of its users aren't maturing as fast. And just between you and I: I don't need someone I don't know to tell me the "best links" on the web via an ad-based human service. I'm quite capable, thank you. ;) - Kevin C. Tofel
Thanks Kevin. It's nice not to be totally out there on my own on this. Another thing to think about. Do you think they would be doing this if Shel's name was Kathy Sierra? Why is it funny to destroy a middle-aged Jewish guy? There's got to be a way to shine the public light on what Calacanis and Arrington are up to here. It's a warning sign to other people not to cross them. It's anything but a joke. - Dave Winer
"Maybe Calacanis should offer to sponsor Shel's show..." I think this an excellent idea; is only fair if Jason wasn't out to destroy Shel's career; ties it all up and we all move on; and is great publicity for Mahalo speaking from a purely PR perspective, which Calacanis would probably consider a plus. - tamera
Sounds like the same thing the guy who tried to "pants" me Every. Single. Day. at lunch in junior high would say. "It's just a joke! You need to lighten up!" :-( Bullying knows no age limits, it would seem. We should all just follow Wil Wheaton's immortal advice from PAX last year - "Wil Wheaton says, Don't Be a Dick!" - http://tinyurl.com/5jlxmp - Josh Bancroft
Tamera, glad you like the idea. I've suggested it to Arrington, he never responded. Maybe he doesn't have so much money, but he sure knows how to attract sponsorship -- and he *says* he's friends with Shel. It would really round things off for them to pay Shel for the fun they're having destroying his rep. (And Heather Harde, why doesn't she step in and stop it. It amazes me the people who just stand by and do and say nothing.) - Dave Winer
Josh, there are a lot of people in Silicon Valley who need to hear Wil Wheaton's advice. - Dave Winer
Calacanis is one of the few people I actually blocked on Twitter. He exploits his users for his own personal benefit and takes advantage of his sphere of influence across socnets. Personally, it takes a lot for me to block someone. Nuff said. This whole episode is not healthy for the community regardless of which side you happen to fall on. - Brian Daniel Eisenberg
Wanted to mark this as a like, but thought I would be misinterpreted... I like that people are pointed out the childish behaviour that is stemming from someone who is supposed to be mature, against another person. - Ian D. Nock
Never got why anyone thought the puppets were funny. It was a grown man making a fool out of himself. BTW if Shel thought it was funny, then it was a joke. - Mack Collier
Go ahead and mark it as a "like" -- everyone understands what that means in FF. Not that you like it but you saw it and recommend it. - Dave Winer
On many occasions I had the pleasure of interacting with Shel, a thorough gentleman, great thinker with highest moral values. I have nothing but great respect for him. This is totally not acceptable and Jason should sit down and think what it would be like to be at the receiving end - if the situation was reversed. - Vic Podcaster
Getting tired of this crap. Shel needs to lighten up? How about this, HE DOESN'T LIKE IT, and has STATED AS MUCH. That means it should stop. End of story. Instead, since Loren has friends with influence on the Internet, like Jason and Mike, he continues. It's selfish. It's low-rent. - Andru Edwards
There's never an excuse for bad manners. Jason owes an apology. - Dave Martin
Mixed feelings on this. I actually like Loren's sense of humor much of the time. I thought his posts he did with his 5 year old nephew Ethan talking about tech were hilarious. I don't know all his stuff though and have heard people say he's made racist remarks which I wouldn't approve of. At the same time I appreciate Dave standing up for decency and for Shel. That's a good thing and Dave frequently takes on a cause even when it's unpopular or if he's supporting an underdog because of his convictions. - Thomas Hawk
I'm right there with you Dave. Though I don't think Shel would want Calacanis as a sponsor. - Amit Morson
But... did Shel lose his sponsor *because* of Loren or Calacanis? I'm not so sure. Maybe SAP just didn't see the value/ratings in sponsoring Shel's show anymore. Has SAP said why they didn't reup? Sponsors drop on and off all the time for any number of reasons. Did Loren go too far with Shel? Probably. But I'm not sure he necessarily ought to bear the blame for the loss of the sponsorship, unless SAP says that's why they dropped him. - Thomas Hawk
I declare a JEW FIGHT. first one with a puppet gets a ham sandwich... come on Winer. Piggie, Piggie, Piggie, ... weee Piggie... and the piggie is Scoble - Ⓝ〄ⒶⒽ ⒹⒶⓋⒾⒹ ⓈⒾⓂ〄Ⓝ
It's not about the lost sponsor. That is secondary. It's about the bullying and abuse. - Andru Edwards
I'm also not sure why picking on Shel is labeled "picking on a *jewish* middle aged guy. It would seem to suggest that Shel was partly picked on for being Jewish and I tend to doubt that since Feldman is Jewish himself. What relevance is there to the fact that Shel is jewish? - Thomas Hawk
Someone versed in "social" and "communications" should have seen the marketing and publicity GOLD in Feldman's antics and rolled with it accordingly. I'm hard-pressed to find Shel a victim of anyone but himself here. Did Loren go to far? Maybe. Did Shel react almost totally incorrectly? Absolutely, imo. - abacab
via twhirl
At times in junior high (yes, I'm referencing junior high which should be a clear sign of things) when I was being bullied or made fun of I a) ignored them and b) stuck to my motto that 'insults from idiots should be taken as compliments'. I don't know Calcanis or Arrington personally so I can't say their idiots but I think Shel can make that call. This whole thing only really survives because people are gawking. - AJ Kohn
it isn't Punch and Judy... but Punch and Judah. I'm kicking Igor the Troll's ass right now - Ⓝ〄ⒶⒽ ⒹⒶⓋⒾⒹ ⓈⒾⓂ〄Ⓝ
Andru, my name is not Shel. If you want to beat up on someone here, beat up on me. But before that, examine your own motives. Why do you need Shel to shut up if he's hurting. Explain that first. - Dave Winer
Thomas, we'll never know why SAP didn't re-up, and why do even need to discuss this. We do know that these people took aim at Shel. If there's even the slightest chance it increased his misery then it SHOULD STOP and people should stop blaming the victim here. How would you feel if you were Shel? And more important -- what would you do if you found one of your kids participating in something like this? What would you say to him or her at your sitdown? You should say that to yourself. - Dave Winer
Dave, re-read my comment. I was defending Shel. I am saying that Shel didn't like the abuse, stated it, and therefore, it should stop. It's just common decency and common courtesy. I'm with you on this one ;) - Andru Edwards
Shel's hurting is coming off more as poor-loser whining. I'd would not care to have been a target like he was, but I don't find much of Loren's criticism entirely unfair, honestly. And Calacanis makes an excellent, succinct point. - abacab
via twhirl
I would like to see Robert Scoble's comment on this. I am surprised he didn't say a word until now. - Satya Boora
Whether it is true or not that people didn't stand up for Shel b/c it was a joke, it's in bad taste and I don't like it. - Phil Glockner
Come on most of you sound like all ladies! There is no Fair in War! We are in Social Media War! So fight you Pussies! - Igor The Troll
I don't just think his Jewishness has anything to do with it, I'm sure of it. - Dave Winer
Just heard the Lauren side of the story here.. http://www.1938media.com/about... Lauren claims that this is payback to Shel, since Shel has tried to pull him in the past. - Vic Podcaster
Regarding Jason's involvement, he only makes an appearance in the original puppet video. I think he and others shouldn't have been part of this that's Dave's point. Dave? - Vic Podcaster
Before anyone else can stand up for Shel, Shel needs to stand up for Shel. Or roll with it, which could have had him and his sponsors laughing all the way to the bank.... but nooo. - abacab
via twhirl
Okay so the puppets are a way of getting revenge. Thanks for clearing that up. All you guys who think it's funny now have your answer. It's not meant to be funny, it's meant to hurt. - Dave Winer
"Before anyone else can stand up for Shel, Shel needs to stand up for Shel. Or roll with it, which could have had him and his sponsors laughing all the way to the bank.... but nooo. - abacab via twhi" Pithy words! I cannot believe Shel Israel wrote Naked Conversions and now he is crying the Blues! Come on, Shel is a joke, a has been! - Igor The Troll
"Just heard the Lauren side of the story here.. http://www.1938media.com/about... Lauren claims that this is payback to Shel, since Shel has tried to pull him in the pas" The link doesn't work, but if he's going for 'payback', why is no one calling for Loren to 'just lighten up'? - Mack Collier
I hear you Dave. And I like Shel a lot. I think he's a genuine guy, a straight shooter and one of the nicest people you will ever meet. And as said before I think it's admirable of you to stand up for what you think is right here in this case. And I do think Loren pushed it too far in this specific case. Again, but... Loren has largely defined himself as a comedian. That's his shtick. Comedy frequently pushes the envelope.... - Thomas Hawk
Again, it doesn't matter what his status is in your eyes. The issue is that someone is bullying someone else. It's childish and stupid, and if the person on the receiving end asks for it to stop, it should stop. Case closed. - Andru Edwards
Thomas, show me where I said anything about Feldman? I think you guys are the problem -- you think destroying another person is funny. Give Feldman credit, he's honest enough to say it's not about being funny, it's about revenge. Thomas your problem is that you know and like Shel. And yet you excuse this, even justify it. Stop deflecting, the issue is YOU. - Dave Winer
...(cont). Lenny Bruce, Howard Stern, etc. They are comedy and entertainment. Do/did they say hurtful things about people. Sure. I'm just so sure where the exact line is. Were people saying it was "too far" when Feldman described Nick Douglas' beard as pubic hair on a face back when he was still working at Podtech? In general I probably tend to give comedians a wider berth than maybe I should. - Thomas Hawk
BTW didn't the first puppet video appear on www.shelisrael.com? And now he's claiming it was 'payback'? Wow it's like 3rd grade PE all over again. - Mack Collier
oh please Dave. Take your meds.... it's a PUPPET. The PUPPET did not damage SHEL.... the puppet made Shel famous. You have a puppet, arrington has a puppet, Loic has a puppet, and i was done up as a baby!!! Did any of use lose our sponsors, show, or were we damaged in any way!!??! please. it's comedy... oh yeah, its a PUPPET! Really. For the love of God please make a Calacanis puppet and do 10 shows a day.... it's flattery of the highest form. - Jason Calacanis
So where's the line, Jason? Did you just give everyone carte blanche to say whatever they want about you? I mean if they upset you, they can just say 'well it was JUST a joke!' and that means you lose the right to be offended, right? It doesn't matter if YOU thought the video about Shel was funny, what matters is how Shel took it. Have no idea why you can't see that. - Mack Collier
Jason you are a Freaking Puppet and VC are pulling your strings! But you know the game and Poor Sell cries baby tears! LOL Come on, what a joke, Shell is being Bullied by Loren! Are we in Kindergarten! Ok, Bad Loren, behave or go to the corner! ROFLMAO - Igor The Troll
Dave, I thought you were talking about Feldman, your screen image references 1938 media, which is essentially Feldman. I don't think anyone destroying Shel or anyone else is funny. I've already said that I think Feldman pushed that bit too far. Are you saying that this is not about Feldman but about Calacanis? And if so why? I haven't followed the whole story very closely. - Thomas Hawk
Mack Collier: Well, it is a puppet... does anyone take a puppet seriously? I mean, it's not like the puppet was killing people. The puppet was doing serious interviews with Kevin Rose, Loic, Kara Swisher, etc. It was all in good fun, and Loic, Dave Winer, Scoble, and Arringon all loved their puppets. We live in a free country with freedom of speech... comedy is aVERY important aspect of our freedom. If someone wants to make a puppet about me I'm totally cool--just say techcrunch50, mahalo.com,+calacanis.com - Jason Calacanis
Jason. I don't love the puppets, so please take my name off that list. Further, we already have the data that the Shel Israel puppet is a way for Feldman to get revenge on Shel, so it's not a joke, and definitenly not funny, and not something I want to be part of. I *know* that it hurt Shel. So maybe you could stop supporting it now that you know that. Another thought is you could personally sponsor Shel's show as a way of showing it's all in fun? We know you've got a lot of money, Shel doesn't. A thought. - Dave Winer
