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Aaron B. Hockley › Likes
Wouldn't Posterous have been considered spamming a few years ago? I'm regularly seeing people post one thing to Posterous and having it appear identically on tons of different services - that was considered a huge faux pas and a sign of blatant spamming not very long ago. I appreciate the idea, but I often feel like Posterous is spamming me.
Ton Zijp, Aaron B. Hockley and SolidSmack liked this
seems like the amount of divergence between the social media sites has made it acceptable. Everyone has a different network on each site, hence, they want to reach them all. Yet, if I follow you on all of them, I see too much of your content going by. The next wave of socail media smarts perhaps? Each knows the people that follow you - only sends updates once to those people? Would definitely be nice.
- SolidSmack
SolidSmack +1
- Trent Hamm
It's worth noting that Posterous allows the user to selectively post to different services (a la twitter+flickr@posterous.com), but it's very easy to produce a lot of duplication across the various networks when used in the "stock" configuration (setting up all of your stuff and posting via post@posterous.com).
- Brett Kelly
Posterous is a tool, and much like any other tool it can be used correctly or incorrectly. Spamming all of one's content everywhere is only going to annoy people. Using the tool correctly (selectively posting the right content to the right places in the right context) is fine... and it's a darn good tool for doing that.
- Aaron B. Hockley
Turn to Clear - http://blog.justinkorn.com/index...
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Rochelle, Lars Clausen, Yolanda and 5 other people liked this
There's something intriguing about those shots with the binoculars in the foreground - here's a couple of mine (not up to your standard I'm afraid) http://www.flickr.com/photos... & http://www.flickr.com/photos...
- Jan Dawson
Jan - I like the first one, "The sun coming up over downtown," I just wish I could see more of the binocular personally.
- Justin Korn
from IM
Thanks Justin. You're right - I think I took a few that morning and went with that one because of the rest of the picture. We live and learn, I guess!
- Jan Dawson
the background is as interesting as the foreground ,, love it
- johnpiercy
Jan - there is something unique and interesting (maybe mysterious) about your shot that I do like. Keep living :)
- Justin Korn
from iPhone
Thanks John!
- Justin Korn
from iPhone
Work-life balance is dead. Deal with it. - http://blog.holtz.com/index...
Aaron B. Hockley liked this
Bake Cookies on Your Dashboard [Beat The Heat] - http://lifehacker.com/5313969...
Aaron B. Hockley liked this
How much photo processing do you do in Photoshop vs. apps like Lightroom and Aperture?
Jérôme Flipo, Kol Tregaskes, Aaron B. Hockley and 6 other people liked this
none in PS. touch ups in LR and DPP that last no more than 2 minutes and usually involves only basic things like stop/exposure manipulation and minor sharpening if necessary. also i try not to ever crop unless truly necessary.
- Carlos Ayala
I hardly open PS since getting LR.
- Mona Nomura
Only in PS right now since I haven't had time to look into the Aperture tools.
- ronin
Since LR that is where I do most things, unless I want to do major changes or stitch photos together at which time I open PS.
- Rachel Lea Fox
If Aperture included noise reduction natively, I might never open PS.
- Kevin Pedraja
About 99% of my photos are processed using Aperture only, using the NoiseNinja plugin for noise reduction. I only use Photoshop to merge photos into a panorama or to produce a HDR image and tonemap it.
- Brome
99% in Aperture.
- Akiva Moskovitz
It depends on the mood I want to get from the photo.
- cecily
98% done Lightroom. It had made managing my photography a much more pleasant affair.
- Robert Kenney
only in camera raw
- Özgür Kalan
I pretty much only use cs4. I have LR but don't really use it all that much anymore. I have made many actions that make PS quick and easy.
- John Ford
99% in Lightroom... the other 1% makes it to Photoshop.
- Aaron B. Hockley
Almost everything in Lightroom, only rare more complex stuff in PS.
- Michael
99% LR, 1% Photoshop. Lightroom is an amazing application and I run 100% of my photos through it.
- Thomas Hawk
Occasionally I process in PS, but usully I process in Camera Raw.
- Roberto Bonini
Almost everything in Lightroom, I hardly ever go to Photoshop these days
- Bill McFarland
I can't justify buying Lightroom or Aperature when I am as comfortable as I am doing processing in Photoshop. That might change when I finally get around to using RAW but my 10-12mp jpegs are eating up too much disk space already (I am already on the 1.5TB upgrade).
- Her Lindsay-ness
Define processing? When i touch up photos or add a giraffe or something it's Photoshop. If i'm just doing a quick brightness adjustment or hue change i'll just use iphoto's tools.
- Steve C
I'm thinking of things like selective contrast, dodge & burn, color replacement, etc.
- Kevin Pedraja
An Audience is an Audience, Be it on FriendFeed or Anywhere Else - http://jungleg.com/2009...
Rob Cairns, Kate, Dave Pancost and 2 other people liked this
"If people are being exposed to my blog headlines, no matter if it’s on an RSS reader or FriendFeed, they should be counted as potential audience. At the end of the day, the much more important metric to measure is the actual visits to your blog and how often they visit afer that."
- Jorge Escobar
from Bookmarklet
Rob Diana stopped by my blog and left a great comment. We need to move away from RSS numbers and move towards an audience index.
- Jorge Escobar
I agree that audience is the number that matters. In the past that was easier to calculate: it was page views plus RSS subscribers. Now with services such as Friendfeed and other aggregators, things are more complicated.
- Aaron B. Hockley
And the conversation about this continues: http://www.louisgray.com/live...
- Jorge Escobar
Next time I do a conf, I'm giving everyone in the "audience" signs they can hold up: "Dude! No one cares!" so the speaker can see.
Wayne Sutton, Roland Tanglao, Denise Howell and 17 other people liked this
HAHAAHAH
- Allen Stern
The 2010Web version of throwing rotten tomatoes?
- jcunwired
Is the 140conf pretty boring? I gave up when the official stream involved some god awful exe plugin to be installed. What a nonsense.
- David Lloyd
Time for another Dave Winer conference? Is that what I heard - still waiting for Hypercamp!
- Bill Rice
could have used that at SXSW this year, cept it would say "Dude! We've been doing that for years already"
- andy brudtkuhl
Dan Shafer, who ran CNET's Builder.com Live (the conference you spoke at that got me into blogging) handed out clickers so that if a speaker started going too commercial you'd click it. The speaker got the point pretty quickly. Mark: the 140conf reminds me of Dave's earlier bloggercons. Except Dave had magic: he got the audience involved. Of course we all can talk back with our new tools in real time (I'm sitting in front row).
- Robert Scoble
If you want a live feed, see my friendfeed: http://www.friendfeed.com/scoblei...
- Robert Scoble
Could have used one today at #ommamobile
- Karma Martell
nice nice
- courtneyrose
Where am I?
Alex Scoble, Paul Wilcox, Alix Whitmire and 3 other people liked this
About to be run over by a train MY GOD KEVIN PUT DOWN THE iPHONE AND JUMP DIVEROLL DIVEROLL DIVEROLL
- Stephen Mack
An airport on the way to see a baby?
- Keith Pelczarski
Hint: It is transportation related and it's not in the Bay Area.
- Kevin Fox
Oops, missed Keith's comment. Good call. It *is* in an airport. But I didn't actually take this today. :-)
- Kevin Fox
Chris, I wouldn't call iFly 'transportation related' and I was just saying people are on the right track (and no, that's not a train-metaphor hint) :-)
- Kevin Fox
I wouldn't say tunnel flying is necessarily preparation for skydiving. Anyhow, as I said I was only trying to say people were on the right track.
- Kevin Fox
O'Hare. This is a picture of the half dome skylight at the end of the corridor in terminal B or C.
- Gary Burd
Wow, sorry for the late follow-up. Gary's absolutely right. Astounding.
- Kevin Fox
Transporter pad?
- Mo Kargas
Hopefully nobody flips the swiTch cause your in the Garbage Disposal
- Brent - Long Live Rock
So it's ummm.... 3 months later....
- Amit Morson
Yeah, I'm not there anymore.
- Kevin Fox
I'm doing ok
- Brent - Long Live Rock
As long as your not doing a The Terminal reenactment.
- Amit Morson
I like the Transporter Pad suggestion best. O'Hare is so pedestrian.
- DGentry
Kevin, I have to ask, how did you happen to come across this from Feb and realize you had never updated?
- Stephen Mack
In search of your Google Wheel? :)
- Daynah
I was reminded by someone. :-)
- Kevin Fox
There ought to be a speakers bureau for bloggers where you can register what kind of conferences you'd like to present at, etc.
Nicholas James, Richard Byrne, Louis Gray and 4 other people liked this
Create one
- David Lloyd
I've written about Twitter passing WSJ/NYT in traffic, how we use Twitter for journalism, Twitter's tech partnerships, Twitter as a world changing technology platform, how Twitter pays my rent, how Twitter can be used for competitive intelligence, I wrote the SHIT out of last week's replies fiasco. Guess how many of 47 Twitter employees follow me.
Kartik Agaram, Iván Abrego, Adam Cohen and 90 other people liked this
2.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
it's not about me feeling entitled to be followed, almost every person there follows like 150 people. it's about a. whether they use the tool the way many of the rest of us do and thus know how best to use it (there's awesome potential)
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
and b. whether they even care.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
I'm feeling sad about the future of twitter b/c I worry that the company is just going to dumb it down for mainstream users when it used to be this huge open platform with SO much potential for innovation. even if they didn't want to use it that way, it's tragic if they muzzle it so that mainstream users don't get scared away. twitter is supposed to be world changing tech, that can be frightening, but it's important
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
someone please tell me I'm wrong about this so I can go back to being really excited about Twitter again!
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
your wrong* feel better now? ;-)... (*have no idea if you really are wrong btw)
- Steve O'Hear
I wish I could. I've been feeling similarly in recent weeks. I've even started to wonder if Twitter Inc understands Twitter. ;)
- phil baumann
My guess would be that they way they see it, they have their heads down driving towards ubiquity and establishing Twitter as a standard platform. Building market share, so to speak. Everything that doesn't contribute directly to the number of users on the platform can wait.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, that sounds accurate and really dangerous.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Ken's probably right.
- phil baumann
<snip>use the tool the way many of the rest of us do<snip> This is a common mistake made by first movers and early adopters. The way *we* use it is not the only, best or even most profitable way. Which isn't to suggest they have a plan in place that will work -- simply that basing the assumption on how it is used by a small, tiny sect of the population (the digerati) is not a way to...
more...
- Brad_King
Marshall. Why don't we all decide to start ignoring them. Maybe that will teach them. They get too much free publicity for a poor job done in the past months ;-)
- Alexander van Elsas
Brad, that's a thoughtful comment for sure. To put it in context, though, hiding messages due to fear of information overload **on Twitter** is a clear move away from open, in my mind.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Brad - kinda like duct tape: can be used in ways never originally intended.
- phil baumann
do we need to relegate Twitter to the yet-another-mass-market source and find the next thing that allows power-consumers to thrive? I.E. what folks are now using FriendFeed for?
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
I don't know what Twitter Inc hopes to become. I think it's service would be as facilitator. i just don't know what it should facilitate. So far it looks like they're facilitating things for celebs.
- phil baumann
@Marshall: certainly there will be missteps. I am more interested in how they respond and what they do to fix those mistakes. In the dev world, errors happen all the time. HOW they respond to such mistakes, I think, are where we see what will become of Twitter. (And by open, I meant opening the architecture, not open information - I am more concerned by the dearth of usable Twitter applications than the @ fiasco)
- Brad_King
Marshall - why does it matter if they follow you? How many of the people who have subscribed to your work, retweeted your tweets, etc. do you follow back? Or are you concerned they aren't even paying attention to what's being written about them?
- phil baumann
Brad - good points I think. The response to the @ deal was pretty bad, though. And really, it is a loss of important opportunities to connect with new people on the service.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
They don't use the tool like we do. When the @replies flap happened, I checked @ev and @biz's accounts. Combined they'd only posted three tweets in 24 hours.
- Aaron B. Hockley
Hey Marshall, why don't you start by following back the other 7,000 people on your list? yah, there ya go! ;^)
- Michael Bailey
Phil, yes that is the case. I'm worried about them not listening to what their community of users says about the service.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
to me it appears that all twitter inc cares about is their exit, not the stability or scalability of their product nor the thoughtful analysis of most anyone interested in offering advice
- mike "glemak" dunn
As I understand it, it's as much an engineering issue as it is a marketing/usability one.
- Steve O'Hear
Steve, except that a number of the twitter devs also did not know that the @reply change had happened and advocated internally to reverse it
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Marshall, your point is well taken. I'm not adverse to asymmetrical follows; I think it's prudent if track is used in connection with it. I'm with Ken here -- I think they're just in pedal-to-the-metal-build-market-share mode. This wouldn't bother me if they had one person -- one employee -- who had the task of interfacing with the community; representing twitter, engaging in conversation. I even offered to do it for free...they didn't notice. :) In some circles, it's called community management. :)
- Karoli
:) Michael, fwiw, I follow about 100 times more people than anyone who works at Twitter does. Karoli, that's a fair point.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Marshall - I have the same concern. It doesn't appear that they're listening. It's ironic that they have a great platform to interface with their followers/fans but don't seem to in a creative, enthusiastic way. In fact, the recent communications seemed to have been sarcastic.
- phil baumann
Marshall, yeah I see that. I think that everyone should use http://mobatalk.com since I'm just one guy doing it all by myself, debt up to my eyes, I care about our community, and nobody seems to care.
- Michael Bailey
Not to change the subject, but can we talk about how in the same week Twitter messes with Replies, Tumblr launched another 'dumb down' feature called "Tumblarity" that seems to do the same thing: and that is discourage conversation and encourage people to pump out 'viral' content that appeals to the widest/lowest denominator.
- Mark Schoneveld
Michael - I'll have to tweet that out.
- phil baumann
It's really funny when everyone thought that "Tom" made myspace - what a bunch of marketing crap - here's a guy who really is doing it by himself and there's nobody talking about it.
- Michael Bailey
Thanks @phil
- Michael Bailey
sorry Marshall, I didn't mean to come in here and hijack your conversation - leaving now....
- Michael Bailey
Marshall: Twitter has been like this for a long time. Why do you think I'm pushing Friendfeed so hard for the past 16 months?
- Robert Scoble
Scoble, you aren't even "on" friendfeed - I've tried having a conversation w/you there. You just pump feeds into it.
- Michael Bailey
I'm wondering what Twitter, Inc. would look like if it had FF peeps running things. Just a speculative question.
- phil baumann
I do think that they are strategically NOT listening to the tech press. Which is actually pretty smart to some extent. That way they focus on the bigger world and don't worry about getting on TechCrunch or in RWW.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, they don't have to listen to the tech press. However, they ought to be listening to their community. Proactively.
- Karoli
I agree w Robert, it would be smarter to NOT listen to the fishbowl
- Michael Bailey
Michael, you mean except for Scoble's 21000 comments and 18000 likes on friendfeed?
- Christopher Galtenberg
Christopher, no that's not what I mean at all.
- Michael Bailey
Michael: what the hell are you talking about? I'm here almost all day long and have TONS of conversations with people.
- Robert Scoble
Anyway, back to valuable points, like Marshall's
- Christopher Galtenberg
Perhaps NOW you are here (I don't come around often much anymore) - it's not important. No arguments needed.
- Michael Bailey
i agree with scoble....i have been moving to friendfeed because it a) lets me piece the conversation about my company together and b) has an infrastructure that actually works. if you could get all your twitter followers to friendfeed, why would you even need twitter?
- Crackle
Scalability and performance had to be central to their decision making. Removing features (@) doesn't make sense. You've got to wonder why they didn't go down the path that Jive took and look to move toward virtualization technology. A partnership with Amazon should be a no brainer since Bezos is on the board. Not enough cash maybe?
- Kim Feraday
Michael: it's funny. You only have commented here 33 times. Who the hell are you to tell me that I don't have conversations here?
- Robert Scoble
Thanks Christopher, next time just punch me in the face.
- Michael Bailey
Twitter's advantage is only the number of people already signed up. It's a subset of friendfeed.
- Brent Logan
Robert's got a great point about listening to the tech crowd. I just get the sense that Twitter may not be leading the service a path that maximizes what Twitter is worth (if anything). What's Twitter's vision?
- phil baumann
Bait is bait, Robert. You bit. conversation derailed. one of my fundamental objections to the flat thread is how easily a thread can be hijacked.
- Karoli
"Hey Robert - are you up for some beta testing in about 10 days or so? April 6" - that's the only one I was talking about.
- Michael Bailey
Phil: And again, I repeat...Twitter doesn't have to listen to the techies. It *does* need to listen to the community, interact, and respond, proactively.
- Karoli
Karoli: yeah, I'm thinking of blocking Michael. He's obviously an asshole to say something like that. So I missed his message. Geesh.
- Robert Scoble
Twitter is bigger, faster, and more high profile than anything the management team has done before, and their own personal celebrity seems to have become the growth engine instead of the users behavior and ideas. New users is fine, but retention is going to be critical to be valuable. I think they need to say no to a few PR invitations and possibly and adult supervisor to bring them back to reality. Maybe that's already in the works...
- Nancy King
Karoli - whatever, but before you do, take notice of what a "closed loop" you are making this seem like. No wonder nobody wants to come in here.
- Michael Bailey
Karoli - agree about the listening to community. Not necessarily act on what users think they want, but listen at some level. At least not alienate those who might be useful to their growth.
- phil baumann
Troll
- Christopher Galtenberg
It's all great that Ev and Biz built something successful, but I think it's time they hand it off to some folks who can manage it properly.
- Aaron B. Hockley
JFC, now I am an asshole?
- Michael Bailey
oh snap, Marshall! My guess is 3.
- jeannie christensen
MK, My experience is that my outlook is blasted as crazy or simply misunderstood. The platforms which will continue on the web are the ones which serve the Elite who control most things on this earth. Twitter as currently configured gives the little man too much power, and will be brought under control so as to be useful to a small number of people.
- bill giltner
Michael: yes. When you call me out for missing a single direct message on a series of days when traffic was extraordinarily high you are an asshole. If you really cared you would have tried again.
- Robert Scoble
Michael: especially when I have 18,000 comments here and you only have 33.
- Robert Scoble
@Scoble, Michael: Take the pissing somewhere else. We were discussing Twitter.
- Brad_King
Marshall, Jeannie's back on track: how many are following you? Out of curiosity.
- phil baumann
i suggest that friendfeed's comment strings have the "thumbs up" "thumbs down" feature similar to youtube to help keep the conversation on track and hide irrelevant comments
- Crackle
great advice, shall I forward the emal and the DM that I followed up with?
- Michael Bailey
ok Brad, sorry - I get a bit upset when people call me names. Sorry, let's move along.
- Michael Bailey
From an engineering standpoint, I agree with the new @replies rules.
- Michael Bailey
Brad: sorry for getting off topic here.
- Robert Scoble
maybe most of us have less than 10k followers, but there are enough "big ones" now and that creates a lot of database pressure
- Michael Bailey
TWO. that's the answer, that was first comment I left. Lead scientist and Rael D. are following me on Twitter, that is all. It's not about me, really, though. It's about listening and participating.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
@Aaron: there's a long valley tradition of that. Michael Lewis wrote a good book, The New, New Thing, about Jim Clark's role trying to transition from start-up to company. (Lewis was a prof of mine in grad school). It offers some interesting insights on what founders go through trying to take their "Blood" and turn it into a community use project. I think Twitter is simply going through this crossroads transition.
- Brad_King
@Michael, Scoble: We still love everyone. Sidetracks happen :)
- Brad_King
Phil, lots of issues could have been headed off at the pass with someone talking to the community at large. Example: API throttling. Most users saw it as a power play rather than a necessity. What the twitter dudes don't get is that their community isn't just geeks and celebs. Lots of regular folk who are trying to get it.
- Karoli
from BuddyFeed
right, @tropical, yet those @ replies still had to be sorted through
- Michael Bailey
Twitter's employees don't use Twitter the way we want them to, Marshall. Have you taken a look at any of their favorite tweet streams? There is a story there. :)
- Louis Gray
Who thinks Twitter right now is being used the way it was originally intended (whatever that was)?
- phil baumann
original intent? hell no, they didn't even know what it was going to be used for.
- Michael Bailey
Marshall, they don't seem to be very plugged in. http://twitter.100twt.com/
- Dave Winer
I guess it really doesn't matter what we say in here, Twitter still has $55MM sitting around
- Michael Bailey
Their original intent has evolved. that's what happens when you open something up to the community. No single developer can imagine every application for something this simple. Twitter+mobile=gamechanger. Still, there are lessons to learn from MySpace, Friendster, etc. that they don't appear to have learned.
- Karoli
Until a real community ponies up some cash for membership, any new service is always going to be looking for an exit, and in doing so will fuck over the very community which made it what it is.
- Michael Bailey
@Dave If I had to guess I'd say they are quite well plugged in, just not into the "tech crowd" or their own service. But they do quite well generating lots of talk in the world outside of Silicon valley. They've clearly made a choice to ignore this space.
- Alexander van Elsas
I believe the future of micro-blogging as we know it today with all followers seeing all posts is only sustainable in a defined group.
- Pierre-Armand Lalonde
Michael: see your friendfeed account, I'm talking to you on your other message.
- Robert Scoble
@Alexender: Ignore may be too harsh. The reality is the digerati are a small subset of who any company needs to reach. They are simply ALSO listening to other people (is my guess). We don't get our way all the time just because we were here first. (Which isn't to say I don't want my way too.)
- Brad_King
just to be clear again: I'm just using this as a data point re listening to conversations about the twitter technology, not saying I'm in any way entitled to be followed by anyone. fwiw, though, I do have more followers than all but like 5 or 6 of the 47 people on twitter staff and I talk about twitter all the time. so community members find my tweets interesting, just not the ppl i'm tweeting about.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Dave Winer: is that stream twitter employees only? could it be true that one of them doesn't know what friendfeed is?
- Karoli
Karoli - and I guess that's what I'm trying to get at. If you invent something without knowing how far it might go (that is, not having a vision), how do you lead the venture? Is something like Twitter even "leadable"? Or will Twitter turn out to be too fundamental a service to be a business venture?
- phil baumann
Marshall: you are not the only one to notice that Twitter's staff isn't participating in the community. Here's another test. Why is Oprah recommended to me to follow? Why isn't someone like Leo Laporte recommended? Or Dave Winer? Both have been using Twitter a lot longer.
- Robert Scoble
Robert - it appears that Twitter's going for the celebrity market, whatever that'll look like. If that's the case, it doesn't seem to be a very creative vision.
- phil baumann
Or, even worse, Twitter recommends to me to follow a cat, which is obviously a fake account. Why should I follow a cat and not Leo Laporte?
- Robert Scoble
I was the 10,280th person to start using Twitter - recommend me
- Michael Bailey
Phil, that's where community is the critical piece, which goes to Marshall's point. If they are not part of the community *they* created, should we worry? I think, yes, we should. Ignoring community means they don't understand their own product.
- Karoli
Robert, the Twitter team is not following early adopters or the developer community. But the Twitter team does follow the celebs. It's clear what they want to be when they grow up.
- Louis Gray
@Robert you know that is because they are on steroids. Growth is more important than user value. An old web 2.0 flaw ;-)
- Alexander van Elsas
Twitter is simply the first [service] to offer this new [technology]. as Dan York says, we didn't know we were missing a medium until Twitter showed us. That's exciting. But it's silly to think we'll all use this one Web site in the future, or a different Web site like FriendFeed. Frustrated Twitterati can _now_ take their µblog to their own domain and start collecting followers there...
more...
- Brian Hendrickson
Nail.on.head - Louis Gray
- Matthew DeVries
Ah, so the message is that the only community that matters is the celebrity crowd. ("in crowd" refrains ringing here...)
- Karoli
Karoli: celebrities are important to generate hype. It's a brilliant strategy. But one that I think will ultimately leave Twitter wanting.
- Robert Scoble
No any community that can gather 1M followers in week :)
- Pierre-Armand Lalonde
Brian Hendrickson: Until they all talk to each other (and they don't right now), they're not relevant. I am a hard-core Identica denizen, but since there's no bridge from twitter back to identica, i don't use it as much. Why? Because the majority of those I call "community" are on Twitter. My social graph is there.
- Karoli
oh, at the core it all boils down to OCD and Ego's
- Michael Bailey
Robert, celebrities are a handful of people. There are millions using Twitter. They seriously cannot manage a handful of celebs and still listen to the larger community?
- Karoli
At some point, people who are spending VC money will need to stop being looked at as "leaders" or "visonaries" and we'll need to start talking about people who are actually making this medium pay-off.
- Michael Bailey
Karoli: well, they do have other things to do too like make their servers work. It's impressive that they've been able to keep the service mostly up and running.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, my point (and it will sound self-serving but I mean it in a much more general way), is that out of 47 employees, not one is tasked with monitoring and interfacing with the community. That strikes me as poor business.
- Karoli
@Karoli Twitter execs don't need to follow or listen to anyone as their service grows like crazy without any effort on their side. It's a short term winning strategy, but severely flawed as pointed out here. Question is do they really care? Evidence seems to be pointing towards "don't care"
- Alexander van Elsas
Alexander: agree.
- Karoli
Alexander - it does appear they don't care. Which begs the question: why do we care? :)
- phil baumann
@Karoli my self-serving counterpoint would be something like "I spent 11,000 hours developing a system based on the community feedback, and now nobody cares" so I don't blame Twitter for NOT listening.
- Michael Bailey
the "community" is real quick to say things like "follow your passion" or "don't give up" and yet when someone actually sticks it out and makes the technology work, those same people are nowhere to be found.
- Michael Bailey
@Karoli there is a bridge http://tw2omb.singpolyma.net/ and my software has the client feature but i'm revamping it at the moment, and I believe identi.ca/evan is working on it for Laconica
- Brian Hendrickson
Just because they are not following doesn't mean they are not listening. There are plenty of way to mine the data without having a huge following list.
- WorldofHiglet
@WorldofHiglet: well said!
- Brad_King
I care because in essence I have always felt Twitter was a GREAT service. That feeling is disappearing fast now that I am forced to pay attention to 95% spam/traffic account following notifications. Takes away all the fun in discovering new people. I will be forced to mark Twitter e-mail notifications as spam, and that is a FAIL for what used to be a great service.
- Alexander van Elsas
Michael, I understand the frustration. But twitter has the user base to justify some modicum of community management.
- Karoli
@Karoli agreed on the user base, but mixing their technology with the ego-serving attitude of a vocal-minority doesn't work out well.
- Michael Bailey
Alexander - ditto
- phil baumann
Like I said in another thread, Twitter is evolving. They're evolving into a finely tuned organism optimized to add users at the fastest possible rate with the smallest possible footprint and the minimum amount of engineering effort and infrastructure investment.
- Ken Sheppardson
I am far more concerned abt the lack of good Twitter Apps and of a user-interface that allows me to *easily* go through my list of followers, form groups, delete and block, recategorize by location (for when I travel), ect. Those are the user tools that would be *most* beneficial, I think.
- Brad_King
WorldofHiglet actions speak louder than words. Not once has Twitter demonstrated that they had the first clue what the community at large was doing or how they were using the service, nor have they indicated that they care.
- Karoli
@karoli, those are the 47 Twitter employees in the article that came out last week. And you can tell what they're tuned into by what they talk about, same as anyone else. They don't really talk about much, themselves, they aren't even conversing. I don't think they're following celebs, I don't think they're following anyone. That's just how it looks from reading the conversation.
- Dave Winer
@davewiner it's astounding that one of them doesn't know what friendfeed is.
- Karoli
@brad_king I could build that, no problem.
- Michael Bailey
Here's another bit of data. I did two of these at the same time, one for the people of the NYT on Twitter and the other for the people of Twitter on Twitter. The Times peoplel discovered my thing within 5 minutes (they noticed when the bot followed them) and they were talking about it immediately, and exchanging theories on what it was. As far as I can tell, the Twitter folk don't yet know we're listening to them.
- Dave Winer
@karoli I know lots of people that do not know what Friendfeed is. That is a Silicon valley attitude ;-)
- Alexander van Elsas
@Michael: what I've suggested isn't rocket science of course. I think it's instructive that twitter (and many 2.0 companies) have overlooked the basics of usability. Would love to see those apps get built.
- Brad_King
Dave - that seems to tell us something. So, are they not listening with a purpose/strategy, or just plain old not listening?
- phil baumann
@Brad of course, none of this is rocket science, hell even rocket science itself isn't that difficult - I'm agreeing with you that those features in an app would be beneficial. Be warned however, that the "basics of usability" will be trumped if it doesn't readily serve one's ego.
- Michael Bailey
Knowing human nature, Phil, it's probably the latter. It probably never occurred to them to listen.
- Dave Winer
@Phil: Or, might I suggest a third alternative, they are simply not listening to *you*
- Brad_King
Whereas the Times hires people whose profession is to be curious about WTF is going on.
- Dave Winer
Yeah @Phil, that's probably true (what Brad said). Heck even Dave Winer doesn't listen to me, why would the Twitter folkeratti? ;^)
- Michael Bailey
@Brad - Oh I'm sure they're not. And I don't blame them in that case.:)
- phil baumann
Marshall, are you still here?
- Michael Bailey
@Phil: hahaha!
- Brad_King
Dave Winer popularized recipient-controlled distribution, Jack Dorsey made it 2-way and realtime on a single domain, Evan Prodromou created a way for any site to join a realtime 2-way network.
- Brian Hendrickson
Alexander: When a service is built on your product, it seems to me worthwhile to know it exists. When it's one that wins things like Techcrunch 50, it especially seems worthwhile to be aware of its existence.
- Karoli
Well yeah, but even RSS which was supposed to provide a "summary" ended up shipping the entire contents of a site around the web. Nobody could expect Twitter to anticipate how their system would be used. Nobody can do that.
- Michael Bailey
What a great conversation. looking forward to catching up when I get back from work in the lab.
- Brad_King
okay, I lost the post about identi.ca and laconica...but the identi.ca bridge only goes *to* twitter. It needs a lane going the other way...twitter to identi.ca. [EDIT] Found the post, thanks for the link. First I knew this existed!
- Karoli
Michael - and I suppose anyone with that kind of visionary powers wouldn't be courting Kelso.
- phil baumann
@phil, yeah, and if you find them, invest on my behalf, would ya? ;^)
- Michael Bailey
Yes, I had a crude tweet-pulling client working in my OMB, now fixing it. and @singpolyma wrote the bridge I linked to but I haven't tried it yet, and @evan is getting a lot of requests and I spoke to him briefly about it in San Francisco and it seemed a possibility depending on licensing
- Brian Hendrickson
Even if we could bring in the top 2,500 Twitter users and ask them for a concise list of all the features of a "killer app" it wouldn't be done. Way too many ideas and implementations for a single app.
- Michael Bailey
Yes but when there is a good open source "clone" written in a fast-to-develop language then people will start creating new iterations of this medium
- Brian Hendrickson
@Karoli I think that people living outside the Silicon Valley bubble have never heard of TechCrunch or FF. It may be interesting, it's also true that we tend to find things much more important than the rest of the world. They can do without a service like FF and still live happy ever after ;-)
- Alexander van Elsas
we don't need a fast-to-develop language (RoR didn't scale, nor will any others). We need people who understand programming, low-overhead, efficient methods, etc.
- Michael Bailey
It's "programming" - it's not supposed to be easy.
- Michael Bailey
not for a network of millions of microblogs, you're thinking of scaling silos which is different
- Brian Hendrickson
Just checked out Dave's link. The two tweets about Friendfeed are unbelievable
- Jamie
how would those microblogs be connected, if not via a few silos?
- Michael Bailey
there are at least 3 implementations right now of the http://openmicroblogging.org specification for site-to-site microblogging. 1: Laconica 2: OpenMicroBlogger 3: A wordpress plugin called nsw or something. And the Jaiku team has been actively improving the specification.
- Brian Hendrickson
the protocol is just OAuth with a couple of fields added, and it's push-based so there is no polling
- Brian Hendrickson
oh, sounds like a modified pingback structure
- Michael Bailey
it lets people [Follow] you in realtime using a simple push. if you were microblogging at microblog.michaelbailey.com and you had 7,000 people at identi.ca following you, your message would be POSTed one time to that server. if 4,000 people at Leo's army.twit.tv were following you, your server would do a 2nd POST to deliver the notice/status to that community.
- Brian Hendrickson
also, thinking outloud, and a few steps ahead, there'll eventually need to be a "registration" list maintained someplace to facilitate the discovery of what sites I could push to, which is a silo
- Michael Bailey
all instances of OpenMicroBlogger ping a central search server with the URL of each status, and the search feature uses that central server, so that will facilitate discovery, but yes the other thing a "registration" list would do is make the [Follow] process more streamlined, right now you have to copy/paste a URL to follow someone on a site where you have not registered.
- Brian Hendrickson
well, lessons learned from RSS were that people were quick no navigate to the early content aggregators, rather than wondering around looking for individual sites, so the issue of scaling the silo will remain - but, it does sound interesting and I'll look forward to watching it mature.
- Michael Bailey
how many Twitterati would choose blogger.com over self-hosted wordpress? people are definitely interested in this, check out the download count of the #1 software package here http://open.srcphp.com/#top_co...
- Brian Hendrickson
Brian: I think that analogy's distorted a bit. I'd say it's more a question of how many people would install their own email server.
- Ken Sheppardson
off to a good start, but I don't think the first 25,000 will really count, and there's a ways to go for that.
- Michael Bailey
And let me just say that I for one like how FriendFeed comment streams are flat, and the converation wanders all over the map to things that are completely unrelated to the entry, but they always tend to come back on track. It's an actual conversaion, not some explosion of nested comment conversation fragments.
- Ken Sheppardson
agreed - what ken just said ;)
- mike "glemak" dunn
Ken - well put. An acid trip that brings you back home.
- phil baumann
Ken: openmicroblogger has friendfeed-style vertical comment threads, it also has comet-push for realtime for both notices and comments.
- Brian Hendrickson
@Ken agreed - nested replies are only good in theory ;^)
- Michael Bailey
Ken: email servers are private, microblogs are simply easier blogs. i've created 700 or so posts in my 1.5 years of microblogging
- Brian Hendrickson
See, like that there. I don't know what the heck openmicroblogger has to do with anything, but I'll defend to the death your right to sidetrack the converation by talking about it ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
haha thanks
- Brian Hendrickson
I would guess that it will find it's niche, but like opml it will remain too convoluted for the masses.
- Michael Bailey
you can run openmicroblogger on a GoDaddy host, i've done it
- Brian Hendrickson
in the early days of email - back when all data was passed using UUCP (i.e. before the internet) email servers were exactly "public" in so much as if you had the UUCP bang path you could send anyone a message
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
I mean, heck, people still hit reply all and then say oooops
- Michael Bailey
it's only until scaling issues hit that forced smtp to be created
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
LOL heck Mike, I still remember doing archie searches
- Michael Bailey
evan's protocol will surely hit some scaling problems if it becomes popular. xmpp has all of that covered of course and is speedy as hell, but not so easy to host yourself. I installed erlang and checked out punjab and it's all very cool.
- Brian Hendrickson
yes, microbologging over xmpp is in a lot of ways at the same stage as html over http was at when apache was created
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
mike and mike killing the conversation with talk of UUCP and Archie - doh!
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
*crickets*
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken the reason i'm making noise over here is because people don't realize they can collect their followers and their content in their own database, and that they can "manage" their social network the way they manage their blog.
- Brian Hendrickson
status.net and twitteronia will help move the conversation along i think
- Brian Hendrickson
or maybe it's not that they don't realize it, it's that they don't care :-)
- Brian Hendrickson
It may just be that the logic leap between "Twitter doesn't seem to be listening to me" and "Go get a server and build your own Twitter" is a little too much for most people. :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
don't "build a twitter", just microblog from a service that is part of a network, or install a microblog on your own site. identi.ca makes the former trivial. openmicroblogger makes the latter trivial.
- Brian Hendrickson
Karoli, I agree that they need to do lot more of this but Twitter does have people like @crystal doing community mgmt on Get Satisfaction.
- Mike Doeff
As the developer of openmicroblogger, you might have a slightly different definition of "trivial" than the typical disenfranchised Twitter user, Brian. ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
oh I dunno - the reality of that is it is too disconnected - when all the the microfeeds are pulled in, and I go to leave a comment, I expect a pretty rapid response - but in actual use, the person pushing the data out isn't even "there".
- Michael Bailey
I get responses days or sometimes weeks after leaving a comment, then I'm like "huh? oh yeah, I've moved on"
- Michael Bailey
of course, were I an A-Lister, I'd be all for it, because as long as my "message" gets pushed out to all platforms, I don't really care about engaging in conversation
- Michael Bailey
as search is developed on the http://openmicroblogging.org network of microblogs, you'll be able to see replies on other hosts more easily, and for the next version of the protocol there will be an attempt to allow @replies between sites but it will be tricky to keep the spammers out.
- Brian Hendrickson
which will no doubt turn into a full-time job and degrade the service and then when you take steps to keep them out, you'll piss off your community - wait, are we talking about Twitter now? lol
- Michael Bailey
Let's just create OOAPI, the open openAPI
- Michael Bailey
well, it seems to have died in here, thanks for the great conversation (and I'll overlook the name calling and bashing...Robert) ;^)
- Michael Bailey
the community already has a choice of several pieces of software. but yes thanks for the conversation Michael and Ken and Mike and Mike ;) happy microblogging
- Brian Hendrickson
this thread officially has reached its quota of mikes - justsayn ;)
- mike "glemak" dunn
The fact that this conversation is happening over at FriendFeed (and could never exist on Twitter) is pretty telling in itself. It's hard to get excited about Twitter. In fact, I see less and less value in the service as time goes by. I wonder if they can deliver in the near future.
- Kevin Pruett
*mike threshold now officially surpassed* I'm 5 hours late to the party, but just planting a post-it note that says High density of information, Return here sometime. And I whole-heartily agree with Ken's single-level threads work best on ff. Were there a scattering of sub-branching comments, it would be akin to shuttling around one or two people in/out of a side rooms for a chat when a...
more...
- Micah Wittman
yes agreed, i love the single level threading of ff as well
- mike "glemak" dunn
yay! my name is not mike! :) interesting post and long thread! ;) though I'm naturally biased about 'tree'-threading, I like to have the option to list or thread if I want. Oddly enough, I'm building something which isn't a million miles *between* twitter and friendfeed (on top of a phreadz platform). </plug> - back to the topic though, 2/47 isn't bad for a journo: even less of them follow the developers who have actually built interesting/useful/unexpected/valuable things on their platform.
- kosso
speaking from experience eh kosso - i for one am glad to call you an honorary mike ;)
- mike "glemak" dunn
I've only seen a tiny bit of video of the twitter founders - there's not much charisma and there's something else I can't put my finger on. Probably it's that "normal introverts" look arrogant under the "sudden darling" media spotlight.
- Richard ¿digame? Walker
For Thomas Hawk and others: NYPD Operations order regarding public photography
Anthony Citrano, Robert Cooper, John Lam and 56 other people liked this
Anyone have any copies of similar orders for SF, LA? It'd be more useful to keep in your pocket than an official looking card.
- Kevin Fox
That might be the most useful thing posted on FriendFeed to date. Where did you find that, Kevin?
- DeWitt Clinton
Friend of a friend. I'm working on verifying its authenticity. I believe this is the order THawk referred to in this post though: http://thomashawk.com/2009...
- Kevin Fox
Wow! This is very interesting. I'm glad someone has outlined rules for police to follow, even if they don't seem to always follow them.
- Brandon Titus
Intermediate source, though it doesn't explicitly say how they got the order: http://jeremybales.blogspot.com/2009...
- Kevin Fox
He says in a later comment that he got it through the NY Press Photographers Association.
- Seth
This is good! Thanks Kevin!
- Thomas Hawk
"2. Members of the service may not demand to view photographs taken by a person absent consent or exigent circumstances." Pardon? Is there something missing here?
- Gilbert Harding
Convenient, seeing as how I'll be going to NYC later this week.
- Gabe
Printing this and putting it in my backpack!
- noeltykay
I like that..thank you Kevin..
- HotNYC News Blog.
Fly Away Home - http://thomashawk.com/2009...
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Lu Tao, Tracy McLaughlin, netgeek and 18 other people liked this
New post: Friends don't let friends use digital zoom! http://www.paulburwell.com/blog...
Aaron B. Hockley, Jumile and Alyx liked this
Has anyone written about how crappy Vimeo's new terms of service are? I see Scott Bourne is pulling his videos off: http://scottbourne.com/post...
Amber, Random Time Lord, Alp, Dan van Moll and 43 other people liked this
From what my friends are telling me Vimeo's new TOS says they have the right to do whatever they want with your videos. That's horrible for people who are trying to build content businesses.
- Robert Scoble
*sigh* And yet another service to delete my account on.
- Jon, the Beartato of FF
BTW: I'm using TubeMogul, but never posted to Vimeo because I like using HD and Vimeo has too restrictive a cap on HD videos. If you're doing video and not using TubeMogul to distribute your stuff you really are missing out.
- Robert Scoble
Sheesh. And here I was, enjoying what they were doing.
- Mike Nayyar
I agree, you really have to be everywhere. Gives different communities the chance to see your work.
- Craig Deakin
I have no idea what their TOS is like, but their new video is hilarious http://vimeo.com/3718294
- Richard Lawler
http://seanlockedigitalimagery... has some details on Vimeo. Yup, it is indeed as bad as Scott says. That's a horrid TOS. Compare, for instance, to SmugMug's TOS which says exactly the opposite.
- Robert Scoble
Maybe that's what it takes to accomidate for creative commons licensing. Vimeo has been great for those of us not trying to build a business on content.
- Christian Burns
Seems every site has to go through this "learning-curve" before they get it right. Vimeo's response has been excessively poor. Look's like self-hosting one's content is the only long-term solution.
- Robert Kenney
The bottom line of anything is host it yourself or deal with TOS issues. Pretty sure most online video sites have the save clause in their TOSes.
- El Freak
You'd think companies like this would learn from each others mistakes. Look at the flap Facebook got over changing their terms. Same with Google a while back. I'm sure that Vimeo will/should be pressured to do the same
- Kevin Kuphal
El: SmugMug doesn't.
- Robert Scoble
Scott Bourne runs the very influential "This Week in Photography" by the way. Has hundreds of thousands of listeners and is very popular. Pissing off someone like him is not a smart business plan, seems to me.
- Robert Scoble
Like Robert Kenney said, the self-hosting looks better all the time. That said, you can use a service like Amazon S3 for the heavy storage lifting (granted, may not scale bandwidth cost-wise depending on consumption factors). SmugMug is great for (presently on pro account) 10 minute and under clips.
- Micah Wittman
What I don't understand is, why does vimeo need to own the content uploaded to them?
- Jon, the Beartato of FF
El: why would you make an uninformed assertion that slows discourse when you can just quickly do the research, where you'd have seen that you're wrong and then not made that point at all?
- Matthew DeVries
I like Blip, too. Nicest player I've seen out there. I'm also using Kyte a lot. Gotta go and compare the TOS's of those. SmugMug really rocks and uses Amazon S3 a lot anyway.
- Robert Scoble
Flickr does video too now.
- Matthew DeVries
Jonathan: at Microsoft when stuff like this happened it usually was just a lawyer trying to protect the company from all lawsuits. I doubt that Vimeo really wants to sell my videos to some other site, but the lawyers usually are in CYA mode, not thinking about what's appropriate for the business. I like SmugMug for that reason: they are a family run business and think about the impacts of this stuff first before setting lawyers loose.
- Robert Scoble
You're gonna need to talk really fast to host video on Flickr and get a point across
- Kevin Kuphal
Kevin: the industry is really settling on 10 minute videos for the free sites. I've found that lately I'm really trying to keep my interviews and such under the 10 minute mark so that they'll go everywhere. Plus, with HD, the file sizes get so nutty big that 10 minutes is about the limit anyway.
- Robert Scoble
SmugMug allows 20 minutes, though. YouTube: 10. Facebook: 20. Blip: longer, not sure how long. Kyte: longer, if you have a pro account.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: That's awesome that SmugMug does that. I suppose it will be a matter of time then before these companies notice that no one is hosting content through them because of their TOSs. Although, that may just be a naive assertion on my part.
- Jon, the Beartato of FF
Vimeos response has been horrific. They posted a pretty pathetic response on their own forums, then locked the thread... wonder how long until they delete the thread... I love the Vimeo service, but this response really is making me re-think vimeo. Check out the thread: http://www.vimeo.com/forums...
- Juan Pons
smugmug is my choice for posting videos
- planetMitch
While I understand the message it sends to its users, these types of license agreements are of dubious enforceability. I'd love to see what would happen should someone sue Vimeo over it: my money is on the plaintiff.
- Mark Trapp
Thanks Robert for bringing this to a broader audience! Vimeos response to the issue so far has been ridiculous. I'm hoping that - at some point in the future - companies will realise that these kind of TOS are bad for them. Looking into Smugmug for an upcoming project now...
- Holger Eilhard
The companies response is ridiculous, reposting a boilerplate message and then closing the thread is hardly appropriate. Here's hoping the outcry is loud enough that they listen. I don't even use them at this point, but that kind of legal bs, pisses me off!
- James Dasher
It's this kind of thing that proves to me that most companies are going to stay away from cloud services for a while longer.
- Kenton
I have posted the Vimeo issue to GetSatisfaction in hopes of generating an actual response from their management. http://bit.ly/rmamf
- Malevolent Robot
I find it interesting that companies in the user generated contant space keep rolling out these overally broad TOS clauses, smacks of a lazy legal team
- Bill Pennington
from twhirl
That's a disappointing change in position. I originally signed up for Vimeo years ago *specifically* because they did not claim ownership of my content. Now they're claiming "legal reasons and technical realities". Another company grows too complacent to serve its users...
- Dan Byler
My friend Aaron Hockley did a talk at Ignite Portland 5 on the varying levels of egregious licence agreements among online services, like Facebook, YouTube, Vimeo, etc. Though the norm is pretty biased against the user, he said that Vimeo was a little better than usual. Too bad to see them change. You can watch Aaron's talk at http://www.igniteportland.com/watch or http://linuxaid.blip.tv.
- Josh Bancroft
ha ha, they keep repeating the same message, over and over to each complaint on their forum. like drones.
- TranceMist
Trance: Pretty sure that is people just requoting there response, it looks like repeating but if you look at it you will see it is quoted from the original
- Bill Pennington
from twhirl
censorship sucks. It's too bad that vimeo locked the thread where people were complaining about this.
- Thomas Hawk
Threadlocking should be considered the legal equivalent of a signed confession that the company is wrong.
- Matthew DeVries
how incredibly lame
- Susan Beebe
hope vimeo is changing their tos as I recently heard. Smugsmug is great but completely different and takes a pricy pro-account to upload hd video.. and since I got all my pictures on photoshelter anyway, I don't need the picture-features of smugsmug.. so Vimeo used to be the perfect place for creative videos by now..
- Dan van Moll
Vimeo has locked their forum where this was being discussed. http://vimeo.com/forums... OTOH, they have stated that they're reviewing their ToS. The essence of Vimeo's response is "you can leave any time you like," which seems a really bad message to send. My commentary: http://www.techbreakfast.net/2009...
- Glen Campbell, B.A.
Say what you will about this being a legalese for them, but locking the thread is a huge mistake. I can understand why Vimeo doesn't want other customers to see the thread, but preventing them from commenting seems heavy handed and makes me doubt how willing they'll be to listen to consumers on this one.
- Davis Freeberg
textually.org: Skype handles more international calls than AT&T - http://www.textually.org/textual...
Aaron B. Hockley liked this
"Skype has become the world's single largest provider of international calls, surpassing even incumbent telcos like AT&T, according to ars technica."
- Matthew Gifford
from Bookmarklet
Can You Deduct That Brand New Canon 5D Mark 2 on Your Taxes If You Sell a Few Photos? Tax Tips For the Part Time Photographer - http://thomashawk.com/2009...
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Carlos Lopez, Mrsth, TranceMist and 15 other people liked this
Off topc, but that picture looked like it said Unicorn Tax when it scrolled past in my real time feed :)
- Simon Wicks
I think you can deduct it. Is he saying that you have to wait 3 years?
- Shevonne
"In the eyes of the IRS, it is a business when it is ran with for-profit motive. The test that is typically used to determine whether it is a hobby or a business is the level of profitability. If the business has been profitable (generated more income than expenses) for 3 out of the last 5 years, it is a business, and if in the current year taxpayer has a net loss when items of income are netted against expenses, that loss can be used to offset other income."
- Thomas Hawk
A must have for every office - http://www.inquisitr.com/20609...
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Cynthia Seow, Aaron B. Hockley, Henrik Johansson and 12 other people liked this
definitely! LOL
- Pico Seno
had one of these in the Navy, The XO never saw the humor in it for some reason.
- Moved to Facebook
from fftogo
want
- Melanie Jagolino
'Don't wear anything that says AIG on it': Insurer gives employees security tips as fury over bonuses grows | Mail Online - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news...
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Louis P., Brian, Ph and 10 other people liked this
"American International Group has sent a secret memo to employees giving them security tips as fury grows in the U.S. over millions paid out in bonuses at the bailed-out insurer. Employees were warned not to wear any clothing with the AIG logo, to travel in pairs and park in well-lit places, and to phone security if they notice anyone 'spending an inordinate amount of time near an AIG facility'. The memo was leaked to American website Gawker.com. A spokesman for the company has confirmed it is legitimate."
- Thomas Hawk
from Bookmarklet
Wow, and here I was thinking to wear my AIG shirt (from Halloween) as a joke to see how people would react in public. Here's a pic of my costume btw ;) http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...
- Rob
That just sounds responsible to me! I would hate to think that people who worked for me were in danger for lack of warning.
- Ladybug Heather
You'd think that with over 100 Billion dollars of taxpayer injected funding they would hire a decent crisis management team that would have provided them with the proper solution to their self-created current problems. Not taking the bonuses and returning all bonus money would have worked. Too bad they did not have or did not listen to the proper advice.
- iSteeve
Aren't they a sponsor of one the big European football (aka soccer) teams?
- Andy Roth
Andy, AIG is a sponsor of Manchester United. The $78 million deal will expire May 2010.
- Tapio Kulmala
You reap what you sow, karma is a bitch ...
- Rene Wirtz
If AIG has any concern for its employees, that would be news indeed. If only half, or even a quarter, of the stories we used to whisper 'round the office were true, the company mentality was paranoid through and through.
- Rebecca
IMO, this seems to be sound advice for any company that garnered some media attention, whether positive or negative.
- Tudor Bosman
Make Google Real-Time With Twitter Search Add-on http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive... hot little thing I bet you'll want
HealingBrush, Alex Williams, Daniel Rowley and 24 other people liked this
This has to be one of the most useful discovery tools of the new year. Twitter's search value is increasingly competitive to Google.
- Alex Williams
from FriendFeed MT Plugin
Yep. Friends are already glad I retweeted it :)
- Ed Shahzade /NextInstinct
Thanks, Marshall! And thanks for the feature suggestions as well, I will those to my list of potential enhancements for the next version. I have also thought about auto-linking #hashtags to the tag page on hashtags.org...
- Mark Carey
from FriendFeed MT Plugin
so this confirms Google will pay whatever it takes to acquire Twitter next year, what say a $1bn?
- Thomas Power
from FriendFeed MT Plugin
This suggests to me that GoodSearch (and Yahoo) are getting Google a little nervous. I'm sure you saw the GoodSearch promo (and endorsement on the site) by ABC. Search there for a day and your charity gets $. http://www.goodsearch.com/ Especially when you can integrate GoodSearch toolbar with every major browser including Chrome and this is an incredibly cool way for NP's to get funding in a tough economy.
- Melanie Reed
Totally cool Thanks
- Colossal Marketing™
AGAIN? Ron Kirk, Obama's Nominee for Trade Rep Owes Taxes - http://www.politico.com/politic...
Aaron B. Hockley liked this
How Facebook Connect Points the Way Towards Velvet Rope Networks - http://www.chrisbrogan.com/how-fac...
mark ivey, Aaron B. Hockley, LogEx and Muge Cerman liked this
Facebook Photos Pulls Away From The Pack - http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
Sunny, Brad Davis Seal, Benno and 26 other people liked this
If Facebook has one standout application it has to be Photos. Measured on its own, it is the largest photo site on the Web. A full 69 percent of Facebook’s monthly visitors worldwide either look at or upload photos, based on comScore data. And more than 10 billion photos have been uploaded to the site. And it’s been pulling away from its competitors. As can be seen in the comScore chart above, as recently as last September the top three photo sites in the U.S. were running neck-and-neck, with Facebook Photos at 23.9 million unique visitors, followed by Photobucket at 21.3 million uniques, and Flickr at 19.5 million uniques. But by January, the number of monthly U.S. visitors going to Facebook Photos shot up 41 percent to 33.6 million. Meanwhile, Photobucket is up only 7 percent to 22.8 million, while Flickr is up 12 percent to 21.9 million. (Picasa is a distant fourth in the U.S. with 8.1 million).
- Thomas Hawk
from Bookmarklet
also too bad that they compress photos into the ground and steal your copyright
- Adrian
yes, Facebook is not ideal for uploading large beautiful high res photos from a Canon 5D M2. The compression is also pretty crappy. The only photo I have on Facebook right now is a photo of a woman breastfeeding and only because apparently they censor those and I wanted to see if they would censor me. Between the compression and the file size limits Facebook is a terrible place to host serious photos in my opinion. probably fine for iphone snaps with friends and family though.
- Thomas Hawk
And unless they're going to charge for photo storage then ... it's just another ROI negative part of their business.
- AJ Kohn
similarly photobuckets size limitation make it less than ideal as well.
- Thomas Hawk
Facebook's compression is terrible. I'd use it for my photography because it would reach my friends in a way that Flickr can't but the compression is laughable. Compare the details in the foam: http://www.facebook.com/photo... and http://flickr.com/photos...
- Benjamin Golub
Facebook is top through convenience - it's not through any kind of superior offering. The issues over compression, size of the pictures, the limitation on number of pictures in an album, and also the total lack of any privacy for the pictures - with the URL anyone on Facebook can see any picture.
- Richard Peat
Why isn't this thread from over the weekend (comments on the original post) showing up as a "Related Item": http://friendfeed.com/e...
- Ken Sheppardson
Richard - the superior part of Facebook is the convenience and the ability to share with people that you're connected with. My iPhone photos of my kids aren't something for which I sweat compression and file size. It's more important that my family and friends can view them when they want. And there may be some Innovator's Dilemma here (start low tech, migrate upwards).
- Hutch Carpenter
Picasa, on the other hand, while a dedicated photo hosting service, has equally awful compression and resizing algorithms.
- Michele Campeotto
Interesting. I wonder if it will still hold true through the whole TOS fiasco. I know I deleted all my better photos from facebook and will only use it for cellphone uploads and maybe a few choice pictures now.
- Becca
You can tag the people in your photos and it automatically shows up for them and their (and your) friends. That's the killer app you don't get elsewhere, beyond just having your photo albums all in one place. I don't really understand why anyone would have uploaded pictures for another reason, or yanked them during the TOS flap.
- Richard Lawler
The problem I've had is sharing FB photos. So many workplaces have FB blocked that it's inconvenient for photo sharing...
- Kev
Looking at this graph all I can wonder is this....Will Yahoo EVER figure out what to do with Flickr? It has so much potential but it just sits there. And without a solid revenue stream how long will Yahoo hold it up?
- ChiliMac
+1 ChiliMac
- Hutch Carpenter
@ChiliMac - how do you know if Flickr has a solid revenue stream or not? It seems possible that it makes more than some other Yahoo properties
- Nick Lothian
Facebook photos is definitely the easiest way to share photos with friends.
- Benno
@Nick Lothian: Flickr has not ads. Yahoo is based mostly on ad revenue. I'm infering from this and from comments friends at Yahoo have made that Flickr is not a solid revenue stream for Yahoo......yet....I hope. :D
- ChiliMac
I don't think Flickr is very well monetized at all. Unfortunately one of their best opportunities to monetize (selling stock photography) was largely turned over to Getty where it is a tiny shell of what it could have been.
- Thomas Hawk
In it's current form, Friendfeed is too complicated to go mainstream. I see this as an early adopter tool, or for the hard core social folks.
Mitchell Tsai, David Bausola, Franklin Pettit and 97 other people liked this
Yet Facebook and AOL-Bebo are pursuing a lot of what makes FriendFeed tick
- Hutch Carpenter
I have to agree a bit... It can be a bit much for some folk ;)
- Cheryl Allin
thanks for sharing that insight!
- Allen Stern
Its may also cause a data overload even though you follow 10 if it goes mainstream, so it better not :=)
- Yunus Tunak
Of course he posts this right as I try and jump back into FF and just found the 'real time' link, LOL
- Cheryl Allin
from twhirl
Totally agree.
- JonathanJoseph
Facebook is more complicated and has more features. So, explain why that's not too complicated to go mainstream?
- Robert Scoble
GUI.
- Mona Nomura
@Robert Facebook connects you to your friends. That is a basic need. Friendfeed connects you to content, not interesting for many (non-tech) people ;-)
- Alexander van Elsas
Facebook was not that complicated when it was gone mainstream imho, now its still mainstream as people pull more people :)
- Yunus Tunak
Alexander: are you saying you're not my friend? Damn, ruined my whole day. I thought friendfeed was about reading smart stuff from the people I know.
- Robert Scoble
Excellent keep em out!
- andy brudtkuhl
Also - I agree with Robert. Facebook is waaaaay more complicated than FF
- andy brudtkuhl
Really, I am surprised you think that. I really like FF and would use it more then Twitter but I have found if I tweet from FF I don't get as many followers per day.
- John Flynn
I found facebook and myspace to be lightyears more complex than FF and Twitter, that's my Facebook is little more than a landing pad for people to find me, but otherwise unused.
- Matthew DeVries
Disagree. Facebook has the most horrid UI right now and each iteration gets worse. FriendFeed has a clean UI and is iterating to get better. The real issue here is that the amount of information can be overwhelming ... at first. Weren't these the same things said about ... TV channels ... the Internet ... or blogs in their infancy? In addition, why put the 'social' blinders on? FF is a data flow. Non-linear learning is the future and FF is a gold mine for anyone willing to invest a little time.
- AJ Kohn
>> for anyone willing to invest a little time. key words here. You really don't see the problem?
- Richard Lawler
How FriendFeed is complicated? Anyone who has a blog and Facebook and Twitter and Flickr and delicious and StumbleUpon and digg and YouTube and Google Reader and LinkedIn and Vimeo .... Can easily understand everything about FriendFeed!!!
- Amit Morson
@Richard: No. I don't. How long does it take to start a blog? Or create a MySpace account? Or build your Facebook friends? Or get followers on Twitter? Like *anything* you need to invest a modicum of time to get the most out of a tool.
- AJ Kohn
I actually don't agree. Why do people generally think that "mainstream" means dumbest users? We have a great diversity of people here, and they're not all tech' geeks. It's all in the UI. And imho the UI is nice enough, even the URLs (which are a part of the UI) are designed in a beautiful and simple way. It took me some weeks of using FriendFeed to develop NoiseRiver (another very complex UI for FriendFeed) though I've been what could called "mainstream". Also, FB is more complicated for me than FF.
- directeur
The thing is Facebook has all sorts of social hacks to draw users in. For instance, I know someone who was drawn into Facebook because of "relationship status." His girlfriend created a page for him so that she would have someone to be related to. He realized he better take control of that page. Bing, another user of Facebook.
- Robert Scoble
@Robert, I'd be honored to be your friend, but I doubt that would have anything to do with me writing 'smart stuff' ;-)
- Alexander van Elsas
I feel like people need to grok Twitter before they end up grokking Friendfeed. And you have to grok Facebook (and status updates) before you can grok Twitter. Of course, it's probably just be sampling bias, but that's how my friends who have made those jumps seem to progress.
- Victor Ganata
Well, over on Facebook we can poke each other and I can send you baby photos. Here? All we have is conversations. No toys. No poking.
- Robert Scoble
Precisely Robert - we all like to to talk about GUI and Usability and complexity... but mainstream denotes people feel a compelling need (reason) to use something. My take is that people know why they will/are signing up on Facebook... but have no idea why they would use FF. That can (and will IMHO) change... but only when we can articulate the value in concrete terms like "managing relationship status" or "staying connected with old friends".
- Brian Roy
2Robert "from the people I know": I think, we are also reading the thoughts of people who we don't know but we want to meet with or be friend in real life or give value to their posts, comments and likes.
- Ömer Faruk Kurt
Friendfeed is identical to many many message boards out there. That's all social networks at their core truly are. It'll take a long time for mass market users to migrate to formats of this nature but it's really more about training user and visibility than anything else. So, it could happen but probably won't. But there is nothing novel to the message board.
- Patricia
Brian Roy - Facebook has added lifestreaming to achieve "staying connected with friends".
- Hutch Carpenter
@directeur it is not about mainstream users being 'dumb'. It's about developers not understanding that mainstream users are not looking for the coolest technological tricks but a service that provides them direct value. UI is definitely a huge factor. Geek desire to add more controls and possibilities than the human mind could care about is another ;-)
- Alexander van Elsas
Omer: stick around here for a few minutes and I'll bet I'll know more about you than my next-door neighbor. That is a sad commentary on human life now, but it's true.
- Robert Scoble
Hutch - and your point is? There is a BIG difference between why I use something and HOW that something accomplishes what I want done. Some tool can implement the HOW far better than any other... but if I don't know why I'm using it who cares?
- Brian Roy
AJ, clearly you've never sat down and watched someone start a facebook page or myspace account. Within a couple of minutes you've gotten all the feedback necessary to get most people hooked. That's not the case on friendfeed for non geeks.
- Richard Lawler
FF needs pictures and a pretty interface, the mainstream like this! Take a look at this page - not very pretty. Facebook has more bells and whistles for the average person.
- Chris Frost
Brian Roy - My point is that Facebook starts with friend connections, then adds lifestreaming. FriendFeed starts with lifestreaming, and we find friends. The latter model takes some coaxing to get people over here.
- Hutch Carpenter
I'd suggest that for most end users, it's almost impossible to stand at the top of the learning curve and see why others can't get up it.
- Ken Sheppardson
@Robert glad you can't poke me here. That would definitely be a friendship killer. BTW getting blackmailed into Facebook is a tactics I have witnessed before too. People take Facebook way to serious.
- Alexander van Elsas
I always thought of myself as hard core and thanks to Jeremiah it's been proven. :)
- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
Hutch - Ah! Ok... got it. So facebook has a compelling mainstream message about WHY you would use it (connect with friends) and good tools to help you do that. FF has great tools with (perhaps) an absence of a compelling mainstream message about WHY you would use it. I'd buy that.
- Brian Roy
I think the most important disadvantage for Friendfeed is that I have to scroll all the way up to be able to add a comment at the bottom. Major UI bummer! ;-)
- Alexander van Elsas
Sure Robert, We want it to be like that. We are broadcasting ourselves to remove the borders. People wonder what his friends are doing, so we are following facebook. People wonder what are the people are reading and thinking so we are following ff. People don't want to be lonely :) want to talk and share.
- Ömer Faruk Kurt
@Richard: Okay, show me the proof. Where's the data? Where are the comparative UI stats on MySpace versus Facebook versus Twitter versus WordPress versus FriendFeed? Sorry, but YMMV and from the rate of FriendFeed growth I'd say there isn't nearly the problem with UI that many claim.
- AJ Kohn
Ken hits it on the head. It's the same reason why people who prefer a command line interface can't understand why other people can't live without a GUI.
- Victor Ganata
@AJ let's take out Twitter as a stream for FF. I'd like to knw how fast FF is growing then? Aren't they simply lifting of Twitter traffic (just wondering)?
- Alexander van Elsas
FF wants you to use all kinds of web tools(flickr, twitter, reader etc.) and use as many as you can, thats by definition not mainstream.
- Yunus Tunak
Sorry AJ, I left my Facebook powerpoint in my other Internets. I don't need a number to tell me what an afternoon spent at a library can easily make clear.
- Richard Lawler
And FF UI is messy too, i am using Stylish with my own codes to tweak FF interface.. Many people do.
- Yunus Tunak
I think it's not complicated. it's just practically impossible to keep up with the content flood if you have a life :D
- Roland Hesz
I think FF is simple, not messy
- andy brudtkuhl
I think ff is a specialized version of a forum. FF changed forum concept a little bit and now we can subscribe what people are saying. Also, we have a homepage filled with the posts of our subscriptions.
- Ömer Faruk Kurt
I felt the same way initially but when they added the "real time" feature and the ability to create lists (filtering) it provided me with some of the features that Twitter Indian-gave us oh so long ago. The ability to thread and to have our life streams merge from other services is a plus not a minus.
- Aron Michalski
from fftogo
Bluntly, those of you who judge FriendFeed by how early adopters choose to use it, lack imagination. Picture someone who simply follows a few friends, clicks "Like" on stuff, and occasionally shares a message, photo or link.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
@Alexander: Twitter as a % of the content is an interesting topic. I don't know but I don't think they're leveraging the *traffic* per se, but if Twitter were to shut off the ability to feed Tweets into FF ... that would be interesting and likely bad for both services.
- AJ Kohn
Bruce, you haven't explained why that person would leave the facebook account they already have.
- Richard Lawler
@Richard: That's your opinion and you're welcome to it. And qualitative research is wonderful. But ... Library users, that's a unique segment isn't it? And what part of the country did you do that? Urban or Rural? That's a good deal of bias. It's a fine opinion, but right now in year one, FriendFeed growth is strong based on the numbers.
- AJ Kohn
Richard, I was addressing people who say FriendFeed is too complicated, not people who say Facebook is too adequate. I don't think FriendFeed is going to beat Facebook in 2009 or 2010, but I do think FriendFeed has great long-term potential. The untapped market is bigger than Facebook's userbase.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
AJ, the library point is an example, there is no doubt that you can go to a library near you today and watch someone casually using setting up a page on myspace or facebook. They way that person reacts to their first few minutes and the way they'd react to the information friendfeed presents are entirely different. A year one growth number tells me nothing about friendfeed's mainstream potential. Actual user experiences tell a lot.
- Richard Lawler
Bruce, what untapped market? How many people are out there who don't have facebook pages, but are at all interested in the features presented by friendfeed?
- Richard Lawler
The market is everybody who currently uses email to share photos, messages, and things they find on the web. I wrote more about it here: http://friendfeed.com/e...
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
Since I wrote that, Facebook did go ahead and implement half of FriendFeed's "Like" feature, bolstering their adequacy, but there's still a long way to go.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
Bruce - Those people have facebook pages. If they don't, they don't want to, and they don't want friendfeed either. The assumption that people will use the hide feature to make friendfeed palatable is ignoring how people use these services. You can look at the complaints about facebook to see most people don't understand or use filters well already.
- Richard Lawler
Honestly . . . if this is a bit much for people then I weep for the internet.
- Lindsey is Fierce!
I'm so down with that, Jeremiah. Most people don't WANT all the info FF makes available
- Francine Hardaway
from twhirl
You should try http://www.popego.com (full disc: I'm an investor), they are trying to fix these issues
- Emiliano Kargieman
Who WANTS frf to become mainstream? I don't. All people who are here are pretty cool and we almost don't have ghost accounts, no jerks, no advertisers. Conversations and posts are awesome. Why invite 175 millions?
- Sasha Kovaliov(.com)
I agree. I don't want FF to become like Usenet did in the 90s.
- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
FF may not go (public) mainstream anytime soon, but I think it could be widely adopted across enterprises within the year. Wonderful opportunities exist with FF.
- Mark Evans
Hi guys! What would you think about a one-week-user-generated campaign to promote FF? We're enough FF lovers to spread our message all over the Internets. If we make this our challenge, we could make FF mainstream in 15d.
- Jérôme Flipo
Mark, frf on enterprise level any soon - I doubt it. Most of them still not ready for social software. Look at SharePoint - is it a bit social? SAP is integrating twitter and Lotus notes have got linkedin support and we are in 2009. I think it will happen but not that soon and not in the way it exists now.
- Sasha Kovaliov(.com)
Let's create a FF room to organize this campaign, get @Jeremiah and @Robert inside and the web is ours!
- Jérôme Flipo
I think once you resign yourself to the fact that there is just too much "stuff" being posted for you to see every thing, and start using list to decide what you are going to read and when you are going to read it, FF becomes much more manageable. As far as FF going mainstream, all it will take is for (the management team of) some pop star or movie star to start pushing out tweets or the rss feed of their site and the rest will come running...
- J. Abdul-Qahhar
In some ways I agree with Jeremiah because I can't get a lot of my Twitter and Facebook friends over here. They're comfortable with what they have and feel connected with their friends in each place, they also get content which they feel they're in control of in the sense the sense they are sharing with only people they choose to connect to. Friendfeed is still mostly a tech or geek playground by comparison. Which means I have to spend time at the other places if I want to play with friends, sigh.
- Sally Church
I love how easy it is to post something I found online on ff. I wish all blogging tools had the same feature! I would write stuff all the time and probably be annoying - but it is such a hassle to grab images and upload them. That feels very ol skool.
- JoEllen
Does it really matter whether this goes mainstream or not? Not.
- tony
Jeremiah: Ha ha. No. FriendFeed has one of the nicest, cleanest, interfaces around. Once you learn how to filter and set up lists, the interface gets even easier and nicer. As with so many other things technical, it all comes down to RTFM.
- Steven Perez
Agreed, so FF needs to make sure that it doesn't get more complicated and leave the mainstream behind. Unless they only care about early adopters, which I doubt.
- Jeremy Campbell
from twhirl
What is currenly "complicated" in FriendFeed? Really, I don't see anything wrong with its UI, maybe some enhancements are welcome, but it's really very usable. Kevin did a great job!
- directeur
Agreed. It's powerful, but needs a much me simple interface.
- Ian Betteridge
from twhirl
Facebook is the most damned complicated interface they could have dreamed up once you've spent a day with it. Same with My Space, who can find anything on those pages. Twitter is simple, but you have to subscribe to 200 people before you start to get anything good going. I only really like the FF interface. It's very functional, fast, let's me spend plenty of time here. On Facebook I update my status and them I'm out.
- Eric @ CS Techcast
I cannot understand why people think FB is LESS complicated than FF. Absolutely ridiculous
- Rahsheen ™, Coach of FF
Agreed Rahsheen
- Tyler (Chacha)
Who said Facebook and FriendFeed are competing for the same thing? I use both and they are two seperate things entirely. And that's ok. Why do we have to have a winner? I don't hang out with my different sets of friends all at the same time. And also, why the rush to get mainstream? You don't tile the roof before laying the foundation </get off my lawn>
- Johnny Worthington
FriendFeed is less complicated than Facebook, and if used for the same purpose (connecting with existing friends), then it has got something going for it. At least FriendFeed users are not bombarded by silly application requests.
- Rishabh Mishra (p248)
So maybe there could be an option to use a basic or advanced UI for FF. I do lament the lack of mainstream appeal, but I love the power and flexibility it gives users.
- Tom Landini
Yes, Friendfeed is really complicated for people to understand. My dad (who I think is fairly wise) is just catching on to everything - Facebook was the easiest for him to join. Twitter second. FriendFeed? Confusing.
- Tabz
I don't believe it is more complicated, just offers you with a different way of gaining and disseminating information. Not complicated though once you have your FriendFeed groove going, it's pretty easy.
- Sharon Dexter
When I first started using FB it felt complicated as hell, now it's second nature. FF doesn't have a great flow but as more people use it, that should change.
- Nathan Wooding
I think it's deceptively simple
- anna sauce
I don't think that Friendfeed itself is terribly complicated - one could even call it elegant - but the problems that it addresses tend to be those experienced by complicated people - people with lots of social media outlets and not always good ways to aggregate them or to comment on them with a close network of trusted peers. If I were Friendfeed I'd stick with the elegant solution for the geeks and look at how all of its content can be aggregated more effectively for non-geeks.
- John Blossom
I agree. Friendfeed has a lot going on that make it a valuable tool, but it's a bit overwhelming when you first start navigating it.
- Trish Ridgway
I don't think FF is complicated it's just hard for some people to manage so much information
- Mihai Secasiu
It's not mainstream because not everyone is into reading and filtering a stream of information/conversations. Yes, a lot of people are interested in this, but not the mainstream, IMHO. Another argument could be said that we can do most of what FF does inside Facebook now, if we chose to (import feeds, blog posts, tweets, conversation streams, "likes", etc). But do we all (on FF) do it? Probably not. Some people like specialized tools for each job - others like a universal tool for everything (ie FB).
- Brian
Friendfeed is still early in its development cycle: It is one of the cleanest platform available and has captured a great core. It now needs to find a set of killer apps which will allow them to clear the chasm. And when they do, they will put a lot of pressure on both twitter and facebook because they have a much more open and cleaner foundation. The only piece that is missing at this point is an addressable user namespace. That is what creates the power social dynamics on twitter and is sometimes missing.
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Jeremiah, I've been saying this for ages. It is a promotional content tool that 99.95% of the population have no use for. It's more like a medium for PR. That Robert thinks this is where the conversation happens is not true.
- Bob Sonin
For me FF is about pushing life stream to Facebook. Only the social media crowd reads FF, but everyone I know sees that same info on Facebook. I installed the FF app on Facebook that feeds all the FF activity into Facebook. I really appreciate that FF has gone out and done the work to connect all of my social tools into one place. Great tool.
- Travis Murdock
Like Francine, I think it's more about the information. I don't particular think FF is hard to get, it just takes more work to strike up conversations with people than it does on Twitter or FB. The thing about FB is that everyone I went to MS, HS, and college with is on there. But those people are not over here. That's why people might think FB is easier. The "average person" is not going to use FF--I don't think, ever.
- Lynne d Johnson
gotta jump on the bandwagon here: facebook is really more complicated than friendfeed. and i'd also like to posit that "complicated" is not always a deterrent - in many cases it is the extra features that lead the more hardcore users to flock to these services. either way, i agree that friendfeed isn't yet mainstream, but it took twitter several years to hit that level too (or facebook for that matter).
- mike fabio
Wow. Big discussion. Just skimmed some of the comments. I think it not that it's inherently complicated, but that (as already said by some people) the core value add is not big enough for most people. Looking at the success of Twitter and Facebook vs FriendFeed's limited growth (even though it offers most of the features that the whole body of Twitter users in aggregate is asking for) is an interesting lesson in product development. So I guess the next question is, where does FF go from here?
- Andrew Shuttleworth
The thing is its not complicated to use, but to understand its value, and to get value from it, is complicated enough that most people will never want to use it.
- Richard Lawler
@Bob Sonin: Nearly 100 comments on this *one* thread alone seems to prove that conversations *do* take place on FF.
- AJ Kohn
"Why would I need 500 channels of television?! It's too much to deal with!" Sound familiar? A lot of 'social media' folks seem stuck in thinking FF has to deliver the same things or act the same way as other services. That's just not true. Nor has it ever been true in the evolution of any medium.
- AJ Kohn
I still think that for most people, the value of brief posts from people in a social network is not immediately obvious. Even in FB, most people take a little while to understand the purpose of status updates/posted items/walls/the newsfeed, and only a fraction of FB's users actually use them, and only a fraction of that use them actively. In FF, its analogous functions are basically what it's all about!
- Victor Ganata
Like any other product, survey clients and give the customers what they want, pretty simple.
- Jim Peake
AJ - for every "500 channels of television" "no one will ever need a computer with more than xx MB of RAM" there's a thousand products that don't catch on with the mainstream. You've got to do better than that.
- Richard Lawler
Complicated does not mean not useful. At a certain point the growth of a communication tool limits it's utility for anything other than selling soap. I use IRC semi-daily because it's easier to get in front of the people who know about what I want to discuss. As long as FriendFeed makes it easier to find conversations about things you're interested in it will be useful. Confusing newbies is just a side benefit.
- Sam Levine
Completely agree Jeremiah.
- Jamie
depends on what mainstream really ultimately is, facebook is technically mainstream, but a slice of users are hard core and others dabble currently, ff in this new beta is looking like an extremely powerful aggregator and discussion tool compared to even several weeks ago
- Patrick Boegel
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