Planning to skype in for panel for Science Online London in Sept. but trying to figure out if I can be there in person http://www.scienceonlinelondon.org/
As a wooly headed social liberal with a strong belief in the power of the internet to connect people it is probably natural for to me have some sympathy for the ideas behind the “Big Society” espoused by the UK Prime Minister. The concept here is that many of the support roles traditionally taken ...
- Cameron Neylon
R is even easier after a few hours playing around. Just compare how it takes to remove outliers and make a decent graph. A few subset() & plot() statements and you're done.
- Mr. Gunn
I have to admit now that my detour into ggplot2 slowed my progress down a little, not so much in making the graphs, but in getting the axes scaled properly. I think I might be trying to be a little to fancy, though. Kinda amazing what it can do.
- Mr. Gunn
I wrote my first R program a few days ago. Purpose: to make a plot of the alphabet on an x-y graph for son's Easter egg hunt. LOVED how easy it was and a great way to start R :)
- Steve Koch
Thanks, traced it back to a redit post.
- Michael Sauers
And Reddit got it from a tumblr blog, which got it from a tumblr blog (repeat 50 times) and I still never figured out who made it.
- David Rothman (☤)
from Android
The UK still uses lots of imperial units - miles, pints, stones.
- Matt Hodgkinson
we are special, Bill. The US government tried to make us use the metric system back in the 70s and the only change that resulted was the 2l bottle of soda. I've noticed metric measurements are steathily creeping into product sizes here if they can make the container slightly smaller than the US measurement size so no one will notice.
- Elizabeth Brown
The UK has been in process of conversion to metrics for decades now. I'm guessing it has officially stalled, although the EU is doing its best to force us (so jam comes in 450 gm jars now... yes, that makes sense!).
- Chris Rusbridge
While I was living in Australia, we converted to the metric system in a VERY short time period, maybe 2-3 years. Sometimes in phases: first "Tomorrow will be 100 degrees (that's 38 Celsius)", later "Tomorrow will be a Very Hot 38 Celsius". Road signs were changed from miles to kilometres in about a month. It was surprisingly painless. I remember the retort from a 80-year-old friend when someone helpfully translated 600 Ks to 400 miles. "Young man" she said "don't confuse me"!
- Chris Rusbridge
In graduate school, I noticed international students getting overly worked up over the issue. I think a big part of it was mixing up need for metric system with the ease of decimal system and scientific notation. There no reason you can't say a kilopound. Or 1 milliinch. And it's not like you ever have the right allen wrench handy, no matter whether it's 4 mm or 3/16 inch.
- Steve Koch
A few years ago, one of my Swedish friends quipped (words along these lines) "Is it true that the you in the UK are going metric, inch by inch"?
- Graham Steel
@Steve milliinch is a bad example. machinists have long used mils as a unit of measure.
- Christina Pikas
It's not the kilopounds that are the issue, it's the decipounds. They just don't relate to the next smaller size measurement (ounces) cleanly. I wish we could just do it and be done with it, but the way some people here think anything proposed by the government is an evil plot of some sort (vaccines, CFL bulbs, environmental measures of any sort, I could go on forever) I'm not optimistic this will happen anytime soon.
- Mr. Gunn
@Christina: yes, but that one kills me -- because it's not metric, I'm not expecting the SI prefix, so my poor brain goes on sound and expects one mil to be one-one-MILlionth of an inch. This confounds me on a regular basis since I moved to industry.
- Bill Hooker
And why hasn't the mere name of the system -- "imperial" -- caused it to be tarred, feathered and run out of the US on a rail? Is it because the alternative is the Système international d'unités and we don't want no truck with no furriners?
- Bill Hooker
Yeah, if it were called New American Units I think it would get much better traction. SI? That's not even in English! (note: I've heard those exact words spoken before by otherwise smart people)
- Mr. Gunn
@ Christina, that's exactly what I was thinking of. I did a lot of machining in grad school and really didn't care whether it was metric or imperial. I did, though, for a while get thrown off by "mils," since I was thinking millionths not thousandths. Oh, Now I see Bill had the same trouble. :) I really do think people confound the issue of decimals with SI versus imperial though. The stock market changing from fractions to decimal helped a lot. :)
- Steve Koch
@ Mr. Gunn, my scale weighs me in decipounds and it works fine. I only care about ounces when I'm at the bar or when a friend emails me baby stats and I have to convert to decipounds in my head. I run 10K races just fine. What's the big deal?
- Steve Koch
Conversation with police station in Connecticut (pre Internet): 'there is a suspicious person in the parking lot'; 'please describe him' ; White, about 1 m 70, 80 kg'; sorry, I don't know what that is- if you can't provide details in feet and pounds we cannot help you' - never bothered to call again
- Kubke
from iPhone
I also rethreadthread all my American rigs since they wouldn't fit new Zealand screws :)
- Kubke
from iPhone
Technically, the US does use the metric system, but also uses foot-pounds. Elizabeth: 2L sodas are hardly the only example. 3/4 liter wine? 1.75 liter booze? Lately, sigh, 1.75 liter orange juice... Still, guessing foot-pound won't go away in the US within my lifetime.
- Walt Crawford
Why do we use gallons, feet, and dollars and cents? How were these measurements created? Why do we not use the metric system, and why do so many cities and states have grids visible from the ground and the air? To answer those questions and more, British historian Linklater brings to life the creator of the system we use today, a rector named Edmund Gunter, along with a host of major...
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- Thomas Page
This is a delicate issue which I'm more or less not attacking at the moment because I think the battle against NC is more important. The philosophical question is whether SA provisions in effect prevent re-use in particular fields. My belief is that in practice they limit the ability of people to re-use works in particular places and particular ways. Others (notably Rufus Pollock and...
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- Cameron Neylon
Unsurprisingly, I agree with Cameron, and I think the onus is on those who think free-loading is a greater danger than barriers to re-use to provide some evidence. There is plenty of evidence of barriers to re-use, it's built into the licenses! I have seen nothing but anecdotes and FUD on the side of "oh noes, someone will steal my work and build the next Micro$oft on top of it". Pace...
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- Bill Hooker
There is of course a similar debate that goes on in the world of open source software surrounding the use of the GPL vs. more liberal licenses like BSD, MIT, etc. that do not require redistribution of modified code under the same terms. In this arena, I think there is at least one clear case of "stealing other people's work and building the next Micro$oft on it". In particular, Apple...
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- Matt Leifer
It is not co-incidental that those who strongly support SA tend to come from a more coding background and have seen more of this kind of thing happen whereas those of us with most concerns about SA come from a more data centric background where there are less examples (and possibly less time for them to develop)
- Cameron Neylon
Marius, absolutely agree with that sentiment. Our job is not to make money but to optimise to overall return on investment. If you want to make money on your research then raise the money to do it yourself from people willing to give the resources to you with no conditions...but I think there is a productive discussion to be had around use cases where SA might or might not effectively...
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- Cameron Neylon
From outside the science community: I regard CC-BY-SA as MUCH more troublesome than CC-BY-NC because "same as" is even more difficult to be sure of. CC-BY is a far less restrictive license than either.
- Walt Crawford
I agree that scientists should not place restrictions on the possible applications of their work just because they are commercial. However, I think they also have ethical obligations to ensure that their work is not used in ways that would cause harm. This could come up in areas that have applications in the defence industry or in cryptography for example. Particularly in the latter...
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- Matt Leifer
Regarding the case of Apple, I admit that there are legitimate arguments on both sides about whether what they have done with BSD is "evil". The main point is just that it is a clear case of freeloading. Whether or not you regard this as a bad thing is a separate issue. As a recent switcher from OSX to Linux, I feel that I have benefited a lot from the more open culture of the latter....
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- Matt Leifer
I don't think I am advocating a "gatekeepers to knowledge" role, since, after all, we are talking about a SA provision rather than the question of whether to make data available at all. However, I disagree with the implication that there is a clean separation between "scientists" and "society". Scientists are members of society and have ethical obligations towards it, just as any other...
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- Matt Leifer
I don't think what I said originally was very clear actually. What I meant in general terms is that I don't have any truck with using licencing as a tool to support certain business models as opposed to optimising business models to fit the general economic climate. In a sense SA licences actually do this, they directly impose specific business models (they happen to be business models...
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- Cameron Neylon
Also agree with Walt, the potential for SA licences to impose use of the same licence for derivative works where this is not appropriate bothers me a great deal.
- Cameron Neylon
Matt, ability to negotiate license doesn't actually add anything useful in current situation. Negotating is expensive. Heller in his book "Gridlock economy" points to example of Golden Rice - obtaining permissions for patents covering the process of obtaining GM rice took 6 years even that every patent holder agreed immediately, because it was non-profit project. The last thing we need right now is yet another channel (after patents) of case-by-case negotiations of usage.
- Pawel Szczesny
I think this is devolving into a bit of a holy war, so I'll make this my last comment on the topic, particularly since Daniel originally asked for references rather than a rehash of the debate. The bottom line is that I don't think the case for licensing data without an SA clause is as clear as the case for licensing without an NC clause. Whilst there are some business models that are...
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- Matt Leifer
Pawel: I agree there is a potential problem, but copyright law is not patent law and CC licenses (v3.0 and above) are clear on what you need to do to waive a provision of the license. You just have to give permission in writing, which seems fairly straightforward and unlikely to cause major roadblocks.
- Matt Leifer
I can't believe I just posted another comment when I promised that I wouldn't. How about I agree to not make any more comments that are just direct translations of what RMS has said more eloquently than me to the case of data?
- Matt Leifer
Matt, I'm sorry if I sounded like a priest calling for crusade, but I don't think "straighforward" actually applies to copyright regulations :) (at least I've experienced quite a different situation working at Polish university). In the whole story what bothers me the most right now is that not enough people actually test different aproaches to CC licensing and report results back. The discussion is still largely... academic ;).
- Pawel Szczesny
"1. Wiki edits do not count for tenure. 2. Wiki edits take away time from my research. 3. Wiki edits could actually damage my reputation. 4. I do not know what that would be good for. 5. I do not know how to do that. 6. I do not want others to modify what I wrote. 7. The quality of wiki articles in my field is rather low, and I value my time too highly to help fix that. 8. I do not want to spend my time correcting stuff that had been correct before but was vandalized in between. 9. I am not allowed to post my original research in there. 10. None of my peers does it. 11. None of my peers reads here. 12. I do not want others to see the kind of mistakes I make. 13. Why should I deal with an encyclopedia if I have access to primary sources?" Update: Beta version of a survey on the matter is at http://bit.ly/AcaWP .
- Daniel Mietchen
from Bookmarklet
@achimraschka @fischblog here we go with a first draft of the ten reasons that keep experts off of wikis.
- Daniel Mietchen
another possibility: involved in too many other projects already and can't handle another area of focus. Similar to #2, but more about fragmented focus than time constraints.
- Heather Piwowar
Negative perceptions: I don't want to be associated with those nasty "wiki" things...
- Cameron Neylon
another: I already do lots of writing and editing and don't want to do any more.
- Heather Piwowar
another one: "Really !? I can edit an article in wikipedia ?"
- Pierre Lindenbaum
@ Cameron I would consider that as being part of #3 above. Added in all the rest plus some rough categories. Current version: "Lack of incentives 1. Wiki edits do not count for tenure. 2. I do not know what that would be good for. 3. None of my peers does it. 4. None of my peers comes here to read about my research. [edit] Disincentives 1. Wiki edits take away time from my research. 2....
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- Daniel Mietchen
One that might be a variant of #9, but probably counts as its own thing: "I don't want the hassle of dealing with Wikipedia's local culture." More people than have edited Wikipedia articles have heard horror stories about nonsensical edit wars, and don't want to deal with that. Having to argue for the significance of an academic scientist whose page is a stub, while lengthy and lovingly detailed pages exist for fictional characters strikes a lot of people as absurd, bordering on Kafkaesque.
- Chad Orzel
I found that people who are inclined to blog tend to avoid community-driven activities like wikis and vice versa. I guess many people look at wikipedia and simply decide that it's not their style.
- Lars Fischer
I could see at least five items in that original list where you could substitute almost any other Science 2.0 tool and it still would hold. With some tweaking probably the rest too. I'm starting to think about what the list of corresponding come-backs might be.
- Dan Hagon
from Android
Thanks for all these comments. I've added Dan's. Now off to #glamwiki . Will get back to this upon return.
- Daniel Mietchen
Cool - can you add a "Tick all that apply" notice? Merci!
- Daniel Mietchen
Awesome, why not a 5-point likert scale then? (5 radio buttons) - that would make it so much useful!
- ReaderMeter
I guess we should do some test runs before announcing it far and wide.
- Daniel Mietchen
Folks, bear with us while we reformat the poll
- ReaderMeter
Survey in beta: Reasons why academics do (not) contribute to Wikipedia http://bit.ly/AcaWP . Please provide feedback here.
- Daniel Mietchen
I left most of the "I DO contribute to wikipedia" section blank, because I seldom do contribute there. It didn't return an error, but it wasn't exactly clear what I should do there.
- Bill Hooker
I also left the 'I DO contribute to wikipedia' section blank, although I contribute to other wikis.
- Kubke
Bill Hooker, Kubke -- yes that's what we are expecting.
- ReaderMeter
Done the survey. I answered both sets of questions because I have done some edits but not a whole lot.
- Cameron Neylon
Thanks to all those who filled it in so far. We have made some adjustments. Further beta testers welcome.
- Daniel Mietchen
I heard the #1 yesterday in a conf call: "what is a wiki?"
- Egon Willighagen
Can Mendeley not include the "Wikipedia edit count" in their user profiles? That is easily done and would certainly disarm some'motivational aspects'.
- joergkurtwegner
Not as easily done as you think, Joerg. What would count as an edit? Do you subtract from the count if your edit gets reverted? How often do you check? Do big edits count for more than small edits?
- Mr. Gunn
We fixed a design flaw in the survey, now the "individual motivation" section should be unambiguous.
- ReaderMeter
When will scientists be able to get a newspaper like this on their desktop every morning? I'd like to be able to configure it such that the largest headlines on top are the titles (or running heads) of the most important keywords I use for my research. Next to these headlines should be the publications which cite my own work: they must be relevant, too. Somehwere towards the top should be the papers from people I know work on topics I also work on, e.g. collaborators or competitors. Anything they publish will be very relevant for my own work. Below those should be the papers that my wider circle of colleagues has either bookmarked or commented/blogged on - a number and order I can specify. My colleagues work in related fields so much of what they discover will be important for me as well. Towards the end should be general reviews on topics I'm interested in, but not expert enough to actually read the papers. This is also the section where relevant press releases may be listed. The...
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- Björn Brembs
Yes! That's very close! Cool! Now isn't this an example how unified access to the literature incentivizes innovation?
- Björn Brembs
from iPhone
You can use Feedly or Good Noows to reproduce quite acurately such page given you provide RSS feeds for each search (not that difficult).
- Pawel Szczesny
Feedly requires certain setup of Google Reader. Good Noows works OK in most cases (sharing doesn't work). I use both because each has different focus.
- Pawel Szczesny
It's getting there. I'm having trouble getting the XML feeds of ISI citation alerts to work. Do they work for any of you? The feeds are just empty...
- Björn Brembs
I have my PubMed searches saved as RSS, that works. But I want one RSS feed that contains all the papers that have my name in their reference list.
- Björn Brembs
ISI gives you an XML/RSS of all the papers citing you; it's one for each paper though and you need to set it up yourself.
- Giorgio Gilestro
Those are the ones turning up empty for me. The feeds without citations look identical to the ones with citations: empty. Do yours show the citing papers?
- Björn Brembs
How do you look at the feed? I use google reader and they are fine for me, they have the citations they should have. EDIT: actually there is something wrong. For same papers the feed is either empty or not up to dated. Go figure.
- Giorgio Gilestro
for RSS citation alert, there is also Scopus... That works well for me and their data is pretty similar to ISI
- JJ
I was looking online to see if mail to RSS services did exist. They actually did but stopped working some time ago. It is still possible to create some RSS feeds from gmail. First create a filter that labels all the citation alert emails with a given label (let's say CITATIONS). Then use the following URL https://mail.google.com/mail... where you replace the word LABEL with...
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- JJ
A source I like to use for eTOC RSS feeds from lots of journals is TicTocs: http://www.tictocs.ac.uk/ This doesn't help for citation alerts, but the feeds could be processed for DIY keyword alerts.
- Todd Vision
I was kidding, but is it really not avail. anymore? Could be the evil speculative domain parking stuff practiced by the likes of GoDaddy et al.
- Mr. Gunn
1 Gazillion points to Mr/Dr./Prof J. Eisien for creating these soon to be, infamous Eisenome and Eisenomics blog sites via this humble FriendFeed thread !!
- Graham Steel
Despite my use of twitter for the #scio10 meeting, I continue to be amazed by how awesome friendfeed is --- friendfeed - I am back
- Jonathan Eisen
Not that I wont still tweet - but I do love friendfeed
- Jonathan Eisen
Make good use of it. It's a rare scientist that can play this trick of a self-named -ome. "Suome" doesn't quite roll off the tongue. "Lindenbaumome"? "Steelome?" "Szczesnyome"? None quite have the same ring. "Hookerome" is close, but I'm sure that's just putting a nerdy spin on a third-grade playground taunt (just a guess Bill)...
- Andrew Su
Andrew, I think we all have to hand this one to you for coming up with the idea in the first place :-)
- Graham Steel
@Andrew "Iddome"? Going back to the hiring and P&T discussion, an inner joke in my department says I was hired only because one of the senior researchers there is working on indoleamine 2,3-dioxygenase (IDO). Hey, it's as good a metric as the ISI impact factor...
- Iddo Friedberg
+1 Iddo - thanks for a hilarious discussion Andrew, Graham, Johnathan....
- Mr. Gunn
Andrew, even the judge at our wedding made fun of my name, pointing out that well, of course my wife wasn't going to take *that* name. I'm just wondering how I get a grant to study my own -ome... :-)
- Bill Hooker
Question for any MediaWiki peeps: How do I make the hierarchy links show up on the page I've linked here? I.e., this is a sub-page of "Assignments." The hierarchy shows up on sub-pages of my user page, but not here. Mark made me an admin of the wiki, so I can fix it if I know how. thanks!
- Steve Koch
from Bookmarklet
BTW: Mark rocks for building S30 and the other sites, AND for being so helpful by providing this wiki! Thank you!!!
- Steve Koch
I decided to use S30 instead of OWW because I feel like (A) it's more likely to be useful for the students, (B) it seems to be growing instead of dying, and (C) Mark is super-energetic and helpful :)
- Steve Koch
Just curious -- how did you decide to use Mendeley? I'm still giving my students options (we're using an e-learning wiki in class this semester, too -- my first time using it. I don't like the program much!).
- Mickey Schafer
Hi, Mr. Gunn -- it isn't a question of not liking! I was just curious from a teaching standpoint why Steve designated one particular program. The "not like" comment in my question to Steve was about the Sakai wiki.
- Mickey Schafer
Mickey -- I like Mendeley and specifically, I want to share PDFs with all of the students in the class. Not aware of software that does it better, if at all. I figure if nothing else this semester, if they get accustomed to a few web2.0 things for science, they will be better off. Plus, I plan to have them do all work online and thus make contributions along the way (including having them rate and comment on PLoS articles).
- Steve Koch
Hey Steve, just noticed this. Thanks for the kind words. Just to put it out there that anyone who wants to host anything scientific based that takes advantage of online tools, such as wikis, is free to use http://s30.com - Just let me know what you want and I'll set it up. Ps. Steve, did you sort your problem?
- science3point0
Hi Mark -- Haven't solved problem yet but am very ignorant about it all. I notice, too that when I put a subpage link (e.g., "[[/subpage]]" on a page in the main namespace, it doesn't create the link correctly. If I do this in the User: namespace it does work. That's about all I know, though.
- Steve Koch
As I think I noted above, I think it could be useful for my students to use S30 as our platform. I was thinking that working out bugs over the semester would be helpful for possibly transferring lab wiki later. There is always worry that OWW will go away. However, since I don't really know what I'm doing, maybe this isn't a good idea to use S30 at this point? As of now, OWW works great...
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- Steve Koch
Hi STeve, if you just send me a list of things you want sorted, (probably best to DM me through S30) I can get them all sorted and run you through each of the steps so you learn how to do it all? Thanks :)
- science3point0