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AJ Kohn › Comments
Epic Win: News Corp Likely To Remove Content From Google - http://www.inquisitr.com/46786...
Alex Schleber, Bonnie Foster, Brian and 26 other people liked this
Smart move (maybe) - if Google is paying Twitter to get their content, why shouldn't Google be paying others as well? News Corp is a big entity - is it a loss for Google to lose all that content or a loss for News Corp?
- Jesse Stay
from Bookmarklet
Since News Corp suck at reporting and Murdoch is a greedy bastard, I say 'Good bloody riddance'
- Mo Kargas
I know a whole lotta conservatives that will still bypass Google to get the content
- Jesse Stay
Not to mention MySpace users - however, will MySpace users revolt now that their pages can't be indexed (if this goes through)?
- Jesse Stay
*bookmark*
- Micah Wittman
Also makes me wonder what News Corp is doing with MySpace now - what do they have up their sleeves?
- Jesse Stay
Imagine if they too set up a deal with Twitter...
- Jesse Stay
to search content, that is
- Jesse Stay
Good, it would save me the trouble of having to look to see if something comes from Murdoch's entities. I doubt this will actually happen, though.
- Rob H.
Sorry but most people won't even realize that News Corp content is missing. People will search and they'll find other sites. Sorry, the unibrow of the web wins.
- AJ Kohn
So if I link to a News Corp article via Twitter... will that tweet not be searchable?
- Johnny Worthington
from iPhone
Johnny, they can block Google spider from news corp sites but twitter will still be indexed as usual.
- Amit Morson
Two Words... DON'T CARE
- CW™
Would be a good move if News Corp carried ALL the news (sorry for allcaps). But there are plenty of others wanting for Google love.
- Mike Reynolds
When Murdoch and his kind get together to set a price, the Government will step in to stop what is obvious price fixing. His threat is hollow, they won't set a price.
- Wallace
Rupert must have been listening to Twist #24. Calacanis suggested he do this. http://thisweekinstartups.com/2009... (somewhere near the end of the episode).
- Ken Morley
Calacanis suggested he do this???? It figures....
- Roberto Bonini
He was saying the top ten news oranizations should get together and make an offer to Bing... but that Rupert was likely the only one with the balls to do it; and that Google set a precedent by paying Twitter to index their content. :o)
- Ken Morley
Update: Calacanis just posted this: http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- Ken Morley
Genius! epic win for sure!
- Jason Calacanis
It's curious that he would say search engine referral visitors aren't desired by advertisers.
- Rob Sterling
Only way to make money from your content is to control it from the beginning. News Corp gave it away in several ways on the internet, including allowing Google search to go through their websites. Now that it has happened, if they choose to close off key avenues of information to go out to the users that are now used to getting their information a certain way, will backfire beyond...
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- CW™
One word, "Antitrust." Or is that two words? The bulk Twitter feed apparently was not available to the public or it would have already been searched by Google. If content is available to the public now for free, I don't know how you are going to exclude some member of the public (Google) from accessing that content without creating a legal problem.
- Jimmy Walker
I love moves that make old media harder to get to, driving those bastards farther behind their walls, marginalizing their impact even further. It makes just that much more space to allow the future to get her sooner.
- Matthew DeVries
I guess new media won't kill old media after all. Old media will simply commit suicide.
- Victor Ganata
And Jason just sent around an email newsletter explaining. I'd post it but its Copyrighted.
- Roberto Bonini
What, this? http://calacanis.com/2009...
- Daniel J. Pritchett
Why is he "talking about it"? Couldn't a quick change to the robots.txt file (which Google and legitimate search robots obey) exclude Google?
- Brian Sullivan
Jason get rich by flux, it doesn't matter to him who wins, as long as there is change, upheaval and instability. Flat markets are Satan that he must fight. It does not surprise me that he advocates points of view that represent a sea change in the industry. It matters not to him whether new media or old media wins, just that there is a decade of fighting.
- Matthew DeVries
For sure they want to be' payd as Twitter, the move to exit from the index is a suicide about advertising, by now it guarantee 100000 imp x day (It's in the answer of google to Murdock).
- Lucio Riccardi - CantorJF
from iPhone
Okay TOUGH Question: FF (Fantasy Football) Do I start Wes Welker or Miles Austin this week? I would also be starting Tom Brady no matter what.
Ken Sheppardson, AJ Kohn and Alex Scoble liked this
Dolphins give up far more pass yardage. I'd go with Welker.
- AJ Kohn
No way would I bench Welker this week. Are those your only two receivers?
- Ken Sheppardson
Thanks guys. My third is Reggie Wayne who has been a STUD. I would have a hard time sitting him against Houston. Thoughts?
- Chris Greene
Well, I think Welker's good for 8-10 catches, 100-150yds and a TD or better every week. Austin's had a couple big games but came back down to earth some against Seattle. Wayne killed SF but only had 1 TD and blowing out the Rams he had <100 yds and just one TD... I think I'd actually keep Welker in for dependability and bet on Austin...
- Ken Sheppardson
Welker hands down.
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
Ken - you still think that Reggie at home in the dome vs Miles at Philly playing the hardcore Eagles - DF?
- Chris Greene
I think we can all agree on Welker now, the question remains Reggie or Miles?
- Chris Greene
Actually...no... Wayne's probably the "safer" pick, even if he still might be a little slow dealing with the groin injury and with Clark and Collie getting a bunch of touches. Austin's a longer shot. If he's really going to be Romo's go-to guy and if they win, he'll probably have a great day. But that's a couple "ifs" in a row...
- Ken Sheppardson
Dallas/Philly match-up is always a war - so Austin could go off or go blank.
- AJ Kohn
Yah, I'm inclined to start Reggie. Even the last two weeks with some injuries he's man'd up and performed well. Eagles D at home scares me. I think the fans may rush the field if Romo starts going crazy and start crackin' skulls. They are already bitter over the World Series and if the Yanks win it before Sunday I don't think the secret service could even guarantee the safety of a visiting team.
- Chris Greene
...Welker + Brady = more potential points than Austin alone, plus Cowboys have a big game against Philly, and in big games in November and December, Romo is not reliable: had him on my team previous two seasons: you love him in September and October, he fades when games get really big. 2 cents.
- .LAG liked that
You guys should join the Fantasy Football room: http://friendfeed.com/fantasy...
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
So who'd ya go with?
- Ken Sheppardson
Ugh. My day was ugly. I went with Welker and Reggie Wayne. Both had terrible days. No TD's between the two of them and only Welker had the yardage. In retrospect Miles would have been the right choice (Reggie = 4 points, Wes = 8 points, Miles = 13 points).
- Chris Greene
Well as an old prof of mine used to say "You can't judge the quality of a decision by the outcome." If you sell your house and empty your bank accounts and use the money to buy lottery tickets, even if you win $100M it was a really dumb thing to do. Austin had *one* catch, and it wasn't until the fourth quarter. For 45 minutes you'd made the right choice. ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
GO YOU COWBOYS
Trish Haley, Josh Haley, pea ♥ fierce as a woozle and RAPatton liked this
No.
- Derrick
Yep.
- Akiva Moskovitz
*crys*
- Derrick
yes please
- Josh Haley
from iPhone
Not going to happen.
- AJ Kohn
:)
- Josh Haley
I like cheese.
Derrick, Mary Carmen, PENGUIN: MAJOR CAPS LOCK and 25 other people liked this
Me too!
- Lindsey is Fierce!
I like certain types of cheese.
- Maxamad
Some foreigners give us a hard time with this. I like cheese with all kinds of stuff, and they can't understand why.
- Josh Haley
Cheese is good.
- SAM
I like turtles.
- Internet's Tad
1 Large pizza with extra turtle, please.
- Josh Haley
LOL @Josh
- Glen Campbell, B.A.
Plain Cheese, Grated Cheese, Shredded Cheese, Cheese alone, Cheese with something else, Cheese on fire, deep friend cheese ... oh yes, cheese, cheese is good.
- AJ Kohn
I LOVE Camambert! It stinks but that's how I like it :)
- directeur
Me too. Mimolette, Manchego, Cheddar, Mozzarella, Romano, Aged Gouda. Oh, and have you tried Roomano? outstanding.
- Bill Scherer
a variety of ost is great! (swedish: ost = cheese in english)
- Mekkar
me not so much unless its on my pizza :)
- Snehal Shinde
I'm Dutch, it's genetic ...
- Irma Vermaat
I'm French so I love cheese,with red wine of course!
- zooz
I fucking love cheese.
- Mitch
String cheese FTW -WI native
- Fred Yankowski
More cheese, please.
- Micah Wittman
Remember 3 Years Ago, When Heroes Was a Good Show? [Heroes Recap] - http://io9.com/5395772...
AJ Kohn and Matt Mastracci liked this
Not watching, but am waiting for Lost.
- Amit Morson
Fannie Mae to rent out homes instead foreclosing - http://news.yahoo.com/s...
Mike Reynolds, Chieze Okoye, Jeff P. Henderson and 8 other people liked this
"The government-controlled company, through its new "Deed for Lease" program, will allow borrowers to transfer ownership to Fannie Mae and sign a one-year lease, with month-to-month extensions after that."
- AJ Kohn
from Bookmarklet
AKA “rearranging deck chairs”
- Anthony Citrano
in what way will aid come to the ones who don't own but rent? i say "no fair" -
- sally stokhamer
@Sally: don't worry, the helpees don't own, either.
- Anthony Citrano
from BuddyFeed
@Anthony: Correct, kicking the can down the street doesn't mean the can goes away ... just delaying the inevitable and propping up housing markets for a little longer.
- AJ Kohn
This is a good plan. It saves the expense of foreclosure and avoids the owner/tenant filing for bankruptcy to buy more time. More time is good for Fannie Mae if they own the house because they are more likely to get a better price for the house next year. Also, the owner/tenant many be able to repurchase the home next year.
- Jimmy Walker
Here is the way I see it: ( http://money.cnn.com/news... ) These Guys divided by ( http://answers.yahoo.com/questio... ) Equals 6.4 Trillions committed to this fiasco, ($62,750- apiece to home owners ) counting 103 million home owners receiving the money. So if the money went to struggling home owners instead of the...
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- ThatDBD
@ThatDBD: I don't like giving that money to homeowners either. Many of these homeowners are as much to blame for this as the banks. Instant gratification and pure ignorance of money matters - they bought way too much house then they could afford. Also, by giving the money to homeowners you're really just giving it to the banks. Home prices were (and still are) artificially high. Who...
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- AJ Kohn
@AJ Kohn Well the home owners are not starting wars out there and they are not subsidizing banks who are using the money both on and off shore. If I were to make a sounder investment with an immediate return, IE money going right back to the Gov, homeowners would make that happen. Banks are paying all sorts of high fees for go-between people and their presidents and high officers. Little of the money is applied to the problem. Just an opinion Sic.
- ThatDBD
@ThatDBD: Oh, I'm not saying the banks deserve the money. I'm anti-bailout in general. I'd rather concentrate on getting our money out of Iraq (though Afghanistan is still necessary IMO) and putting money to work for jobs, education and health care. Personal and corporate responsibility means you have to learn from your mistakes. Giving banks or over-extended homeowners a mulligan doesn't lead to responsibility which - IMO - is what this nation needs to get back to.
- AJ Kohn
@Jimmy: a better price next year? not likely. @AJ: if they have found themselves in this situation, they are not homeowners.
- Anthony Citrano
from BuddyFeed
@Anthony: Good point. A type of housing serfdom.
- AJ Kohn
10% unemployment means this is pointless exercise in postponing inevitable
- WarLord
So now Obama wants to take over the housing industry? This basically makes Uncle Sam the ultimate landlord! Let's make this clear, Uncle Sam "allows" homeowners to GIVE him the deed to their HOME. Then, Uncle Sam charges the EX-homeowners RENT to stay in their own homes?!?!? This must be stopped.
- David C. Cooper
David, the homeowners didn't actually own the home, it was mortaged through Fannie Mae. Which means Uncle Sam already held the deed to the home and was taking money in order to theoretically transfer it to the new owner once the balance was paid 30 years down the road. Now the person in question will just pay money for rent and Uncle Sam will keep the deed. The person can break the lease and move if they need to without going into foreclosure and Uncle Sam can sell the property when and if appropriate.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Yeah, I'm not sure I'm excited by the idea of Fannie Mae being a landlord. They do realize that renters generally trash the hell out of a house, right? The resale value when the market improves will be terrible.
- Jason Huebel
@warlord: yes, thus my original metaphor. @Tina: don't bother; with David, everything is the President's fault and/or evil plan
- Anthony Citrano
from BuddyFeed
@ffing enigma You are right to point out that these houses have no monitary value to to the homeowner. Being on a lease that the owner can walk away from is a matter of value to the homeowner. @Anthony Owners evicted ejected from foreclosed home are notoriously abusive to the homes. They tend to take things like dishwashers, light fixtures and mantles. Worse, after they vacate the homes, the vandals go in and take whatever is left including copper wiring and water pipes.
- Jimmy Walker
Everyone, mortgages and deeds are not like car titles and car loans. When your name is on a deed, regardless of whether you owe money to a bank or lender for the purchase (a transaction called a mortgage with all kinds of legal precedent on the rights that bestows), you own that property. You are responsible to the community it is in for taxes and duties regarding upkeep. That property...
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- Cole Jolley
Cole, the manner in which you describe mortgages is in fact no different than the way my current car payment works. My name is on the title, I am responsible for the taxes and duties of upkeep, I can use it as collateral, and I am free to resell it. The simple fact of the matter, though, is that my car on which I make payments and my house on which I make payments are mine *in name...
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- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Tina, actually it is quite different. If you purchased a car using a loan, the lender will be listed as a lienholder on your car title. Some lenders even maintain copy of that title until the loan is paid. You won't be able to transfer that title (i.e., sell the car) without their agreement. Title to property works differently. Conveyance is a matter of public record. Your rights to the...
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- Cole Jolley
This notion of "ownership" is a curious illusion, even when the property is debt free. You really can't own anything beyond the point where the law will recognize and protect your exclusive possession. Where the property is encumbered by debt, the law still protects the owner, until foreclosure, just as much as if it were debt free. Either way, we enjoy this illusion of ownership. It's no surprise that "owners" in bankruptcy cases propose to pay much more than the property is worth to preserve "ownership."
- Jimmy Walker
LOL - I'm going to use that phrase - "ownership is a curious illusion" - sometime!
- Cole Jolley
6-Year-Old Girl with Brain Cancer Hid Love Notes for Her Parents to Find After Her Death - http://neatorama.cachefly.net/notes-l...
PENGUIN: MAJOR CAPS LOCK, 7 раз Опять на пляже, Alex Scrivener and 51 other people liked this
"Just before her sixth birthday, Elena Desserich (right) was diagnosed with brain cancer and given 135 days to live. She lived 255 days, passing away in 2007. After her death, Elena’s parents, Brooke and Keith, found hundreds of notes from Elena hidden around the house — in between CD cases, between bookshelves, in dresser drawers, in backpacks…."
- AJ Kohn
from Bookmarklet
Oh man ... this is just crazy heart-breaking.
- AJ Kohn
Oh wow. This took my breath away.
- joey
Wow that is seriously one of the most thoughtful and heart breaking stories I have ever heard.
- Nicholas Kreidberg
That is so cool, but must also have been so painful.
- Spidra Webster
joey: Me too, literally.
- Nicholas Kreidberg
Oh goodness... *cries*
- Mellissa Jane
Wow... that's cute and incredibly heavy all at the same time.
- SAM
It is so sad and heartwarming at the same time. Can't fathom what she must have gone through doing this and what her parents are going through finding the notes.
- jamar78
ohhhh! girls are sensitive
- ffcode
how her parents could come to terms with this; don't know what this feeling is called
- ffcode
It's fake. 255 days later they find all this stuff? I call bullshit. And using your dead kid to sell books is pretty low.
- KapitanObvious
It's a book to raise funds for a non-profit org. dedicated to fighting pediatric brain cancer. It's not as if they're taking the funds and vacationing in Hawaii.
- pea ♥ fierce as a woozle
Still sounds fake. Too many holes. Sorry.
- KapitanObvious
Story breaks my heart but as others have pointed out on other sites, it does seem a little fishy that nothing was noticed for a whole 255 days later.
- Andrew Trinh
I would imagine that for the 255 days the little girl lived, her parents were totally focused on giving her quality of life, not really noticing much of anything else. After she's gone, part of the recovery process for the parents is to re-organise the home, whereupon they start to discover these things. Or perhaps they found one note in a semi-obvious place and decided to investigate....
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- Slippy "Threadsbane" Lane
Aww that is so sweet. Poor girl had to go soon :(
- AJ Batac
wow!
- Loc
even if it is fake i want to live in that virtual moment and yeah there are little girls this sensitive
- ffcode
Graffiti. It’s Good for Blight. Or Is It Bad? - Bay Area Blog - NYTimes.com - http://bayarea.blogs.nytimes.com/2009...
Nia, dailyphoto, nakachi and 16 other people liked this
"On Tuesday, one of the Bay Area’s most prolific graffiti taggers is scheduled to be arraigned in San Jose. This could be interpreted as a welcome crackdown on a likely vandal, or another sign that art and the state don’t ever get along. “Girafa,” otherwise known as Steven Free, 30, of San Francisco, is charged with 10 felony counts involving $40,000 in property damage. Milpitas police had also sought Mr. Free for “Giraffe” vandalism. Mr. Free is currently out of jail, after posting $100,000 bail. His arrest has prompted calls by some Bay Area bloggers to “Free Free” and has revived the old graffiti debate. Critics say that Mr. Free and his ilk damage property and should face the consequences."
- Thomas Hawk
from Bookmarklet
Good graffiti is like art. I generally view it as an upgrade over the dreary calamity of many urban centers. I recall riding the train into Philadelphia and seeing Jay Cee (http://www.flickr.com/photos...) There's a level of appropriate space that gets tricky and I'm not a fan of tagging, which I find has no real aesthetic value. But ... good graffiti, seems like a bright spot in a dark world.
- AJ Kohn
We don't get to put it up to a majority rules vote what someone does with their property. It's not about whether people are skilled artists or not. It's about people who decide that the law doesn't apply to them somehow. If you knew what people in my neighborhood go through having to constantly clean up after graffiti. Some of the people, like me, are disabled and it is a HUGE hardship...
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- Spidra Webster
Well Spidra, I'm not making heroes out of anyone and I'm okay with fining folks when appropriate. I simply think there's a better use of time in our courts and jails. And that much of this wouldn't be an issue if urban infrastructure was better addressed. I despise tagging and have complained to local city officials about it proliferating. *shrugs* Sure you can argue slippery slope on...
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- AJ Kohn
Sorry if it seemed I was addressing that comment specifically to you, AJ. I wasn't. I just burst out sometimes because the enormous load of press, etc. in the SF Bay Area that considers these guys heroes really pisses me off. Sometimes I don't say anything because the peer pressure is too much. Other times I can't stand it anymore and post a rebuttal even though I know that I'll probably get jumped on for being too square.
- Spidra Webster
I've personally seen and shot many of girafa's murals. Last month they demolished the old tuna cannery plant in San Francisco. Was it private property? Sure. But it was private property that was abandoned and had no purpose other than to sit there for decades in an industrial section of town. Inside that building (and now long gone) was an amazing mural of an SF Girafa in a SF Giants...
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- Thomas Hawk
Girafa broke the law painting inside the tuna cannery. I broke the law trespassing inside the tuna cannery to photograph it. Nobody was harmed, nobody was out any money. I see nothing wrong with either.
- Thomas Hawk
@Thomas: I think it's all a matter of where. Like you said, abandoned or industrialized sections of town that look like the street level of Blade Runner could use some art to lift the spirit. But, put that on the side of the Transamerica building or ... Coit Tower and it's not appropriate. Both instances are breaking the law, but one is essentially harmless while the other is not. Yet -...
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- AJ Kohn
TH. The difference is you took a photo they left something that will cost money to repair. Not that I'm condoning your behaviour you cheeky monkey. That said I'm sure you know the story of our prolific Banksy; and the local council that decided to paint over one on private property against he owners wishes... Taggers like Londons tox and milk can rot though. Although saying that I think they've been stopped, haven't seen a tag in a while. Maybe I'm just blind to them now
- Phill Price
from iPhone
Except that in the case above Phill it cost no money to repair for either. The structure was demolished. It didn't cost anymore to demolish it with the art on it or not on it. Just pointing out that there are many times when graffiti is done in such a way that it doesn't cost or harm anyone. Frequently graffiti artists paint on abandoned, neglected, industrial structures and I think that's quite a bit different than spray painting on somebody's home front door.
- Thomas Hawk
Speaking of your own Banksy, I always liked this quote by him: "The people who truly deface our neighbourhoods are the companies that scrawl giant slogans across buildings and buses trying to make us feel inadequate unless we buy their stuff. They expect to be able to shout their message in your face from every available surface but you're never allowed to answer back. Well, they started the fight and the wall is the weapon of choice to hit them back."
- Thomas Hawk
Great quote thomas!
- Louis Simoneau
from fftogo
i like that quote. a couple of years ago, i was driving up a major artery from central athens to the north end of the city, an avenue full of signs and ads, and i thought to intentionally try to avoid looking at them, to NOT be bombarded with their messages... to think about other things. i couldn't do it for very long. i tried again on several occasions and i find it impossible. i...
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- tmt
There are people male and female among us who will exit restrooms without any thought of washing their hands:( Sins dirty souls!
Christopher Harley, AJ Kohn and MVB (Curmudgeon of FF) liked this
There are people among us who worry too much about germs.
- Alex Scoble
Just washing your hands is the best way to prevent all sorts of nasties. It's the disinfectant spray, anti-bacterial soaps and the ilk that seem overboard.
- AJ Kohn
There are people among us skilled at not peeing on their hands.
- Christopher Harley
from iPhone
TV Ratings Thursday: ABC Edges CBS; FlashForward Keeps Sliding, Fringe Plummets - http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009...
AJ Kohn, Rick Schmidt and RAPatton liked this
I've given up on FF, it needs a reset
- Dave Hodson
I like FF and Fringe. The two week hiatus for Fringe just knocked all momentum out of it. And FlashForward is interesting. It would be sad to see it go and V survive since V was so poor to start. Maybe it'll get better but ...
- AJ Kohn
I tried FlashForward for the first three episodes, and can't get into it. Have the rest on the Tivo. I don't think the time is right for another Lost-like show (whether or not that characterization is warranted), even though ABC desperately wants a replacement for it. I dropped Fringe after the pilot, but that was more about its time slot, being the weaker of three shows I was interested in when it premiered. Keep meaning to check it out on DVD, maybe after I finish watching ST: TNG.
- Mark Trapp
@Mark: Yeah, it's unfortunate that it's fallen into that 'Lost' like bucket. I think the premise is actually pretty interesting and they're doing some decent stuff with it. Acting is uneven but better than V. Fringe ... was pretty bad for the first 3-5 episodes and then began to hit its stride. This season has gotten a bit janky now and then but overall there is enough to keep me coming back.
- AJ Kohn
Obama calls jobless rise sobering
| Reuters - http://www.reuters.com/article...
Alex Scoble and AJ Kohn liked this
"President Barack Obama said on Friday the jump in the unemployment rate to 10.2 percent in October was a "sobering" figure that underscored the economic challenges ahead. Obama, speaking after the U.S. jobless rate unexpectedly rose to a 26 1/2-year high, also said he had signed a bill that extended jobless benefits and homebuyer tax credits."
- Cristo
from Bookmarklet
Sobering because 10.2% unemployment really means a true 20% unemployment and ... that's not going to produce a huge Q4 surge in consumer spending. You can kick the can down the road but ... the can is still there waiting for you.
- AJ Kohn
Does that mean he was drunk first?
- Akiva Moskovitz
Some people are drunk on the stock market right now.
- Cristo
@Cristo: +9
- AJ Kohn
What's sobering is his Presidency. How we can last another 3 years.....
- Spencer
Spencer, I actually support Obama, believe it or not. It's the last guy that scared the crap out of me.
- Cristo
Not something you see everyday...
Tudor Bosman, Dave Roth, MVB (Curmudgeon of FF) and 2 other people liked this
Damn.
- Derrick
That's a first. Although we have "Sportsmen for Obama" here in MN.
- John Seals
Wow!
- Anne Bouey
On a Prius? Wow.. i would expect it more on a Humvee.
- CW™
I think there's a real difference between people who put pro bumper stickers (e.g. - I'm for this, or stand for that) versus anti bumper stickers (like this one). This person is actually defined by Obama instead of having their own identity. There's no - this is what I stand for, it's this is what I stand against. That's a very major psychological difference in how people digest the world IMO.
- AJ Kohn
+++AJ
- Derrick
Oh come *on*, like you didn't see all the exact same stickers railing against Bush over the past 9 years.
- Jonas, Leper of FF
Hilarious to see those on a Prius.
- Spidra Webster
I was speaking of the juxtaposition Jonas. Usually the Prius drivers are pro Obama.
- EricaJoy
I think I ticked off Robert Scoble.
Victor Ganata, Helen Sventitsky, Jason Huebel and 2 other people liked this
what did you do?
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
That doesn't appear to be too hard to do.
- Derrick
+1 Der
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
Oh, I left a post on his blog lecturing him about how he didn't grok why lists wouldn't work. Don't get me wrong, I like Robert. And part of the reason is he does get passionate about things.
- AJ Kohn
lists in general or just on twitter aj?
- mike "glemak" dunn
from iPhone
@mike: mmmm, Twitter for the most part but I find lists overall to be pretty blunt instruments too.
- AJ Kohn
oh yeah? what did u do man?
- Bishal Adhikary
I gave him a lecture instead of a conversation. Everything is fine now. http://scobleizer.com/2009...
- AJ Kohn
Did you talk about something non-tech related?
- Anthony Citrano
It's funny, I joined friendfeed just to connect further with my brother...I got that for a time, but in a larger sense I connected with a community and discovered so many interesting people and so many noteworthy stories. Despite what I've written before, to Paul Bucheit and the rest of the friendfeed team, I will forever be grateful for the...
Tina-Marie Simba-Masozera, Thomas Power, Andy Bakun and 94 other people liked this
service that made this possible.
- Alex Scoble
cheers, again.
- Bren, Photophobe
Cheers to you too, Bren...twice!
- Alex Scoble
I'm tyring to like , like , like many times....lol...Alex...wuvs ya
- Bill Heslin
LOL, you guys are the best.
- Alex Scoble
Amen, Alex. I have come to know more people through FF than I ever could have imagined. It may not be as geeky as it was when I first joined, but the community has grown & improved. Kudos to all of you (devs & users) for giving me that. :)
- JA Castillo
Beautifully said, Alex! :)
- directeur
Well said but ... don't cue the fat lady yet!
- AJ Kohn
AJ, I think you have me confused with another Scoble. :) I'm not calling anything over here. :) Just giving thanks.
- Alex Scoble
from IM
Alex, are you on google wave? I have one more...
- Anthony Farrior
oh, scratch that, i have 10 invites left...
- Anthony Farrior
That's nice, Alex.
- Anne Bouey
You are my favorite Scoble by far! (Sorry, Robert) ;)
- Jorge Escobar
Hmmm.. sounds like the speech that is said before the music is queued up and the lovely ladies come from stage right to escort you off. But Then again.. thanks are not said enough in life so say it often. ;)
- CW™
Yes and yes to everything.
- Eric @ CS Techcast
from iPhone
Long live Friendfeed!!! But even better,long live the relationships....
- Steve
werd!
- imabonehead
Love you! even don't know you! love cool people!
- Farhad Jafari
nice!
- .LAG liked that
Well said, Alex.
- Martha
Couldn't agree more .. FF still rocks
- Charlie Anzman
FF is the Jewel in the Center of the Internet
- Robert Higgins
Navigation Menus: Trends and Examples - http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2008...
 |
Anthony Citrano and Stephen Mack liked this
"That’s why in most cases it’s where simple, intuitive and conventional solutions are usually the best option. However, it doesn’t mean that they need to be boring. One year ago we’ve presented modern approaches of navigation design. Let’s take a look at what’s different now, which trends one can observe and what ideas you can develop further in your projects."
- AJ Kohn
from Bookmarklet
Do You Skip Television Commercials or Let Them Roll? - TV - Lifehacker - http://lifehacker.com/5396026...
Kenton, Eoghann Irving, David Cook and 8 other people liked this
"Nielsen has recently reported that 46% of viewers aren't skipping the commercials on their pre-recorded DVR programs. That number seemed ridiculously high to us, so we're asking you: Do you watch, skip, or run to the kitchen on commercials?"
- LogEx
from Bookmarklet
Skip. Unless it'sa funny ad then I back up and play it.
- Tendonitis' Bitch
We skip unless we forget that we're watching a show off the DVR, which happens quite a bit.
- Rochelle
Skip
- Thomas Hawk
from iPhone
I have TiVo so I skip. Once in a while a commercial will catch my eye and we'll watch it but ... 90% of the time, 30 second skip mania.
- AJ Kohn
Depends; if I'm not crunched for time (i.e., trying to get through as many shows as possible, or only have 45 minutes to watch a show), I'll often let them roll because it's less hassle than grabbing the remote and fastforwarding. Especially if I'm also doing stuff on the computer (which is most of the time), because then I can use the commercial break to give full attention to the computer briefly.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
I think if you look in the dictionary under "self selection" you'll find a picture of this Lifehacker post. This just in: 99.99% of people who respond to polls on the web conducted by sites with "hacker" in their title use the DVR skip button...
- Ken Sheppardson
I only watch downloaded shows, so the answer is pretty obvious. ;)
- Jordi Soler
Skip unless it's particularly fetching as it whizzes by. I'll even pause the live broadcast 10 min or so to give me some zoom room to play with.
- ɐ ɯıʞ sıɹɥɔ
from iPhone
I'm in the skip unless column.
- jcunwired
If a commercial seems interesting, I'll watch it once. If it's really compelling/funny/whatever, I may watch it multiple times. (I actually recorded one of those Vertigo Crime spots on BBC America to show my wife.) But once I've seen it, and I'm done with it, I never want to see it again. I have no interest in being brand-beaten.
- Roger Benningfield
on DVR, Skippy McSkip. I do watch a lot of stuff live, tho, so I still see some commercials here and there.
- Chieze Okoye
Ha ha Ken, good point. I'm mostly a skipper, but some do catch my eye. I'll start shows late even if my schedule lines up with the broadcast just so I can skip. Some stations are making it more challenging by varying lengths of breaks, and putting short snippets within the breaks and after the credits.
- LogEx
I avoid them like the plague. I rarely watch commercial TV - thank goodness for the BBC! :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
I always skip them.
- Alex Scoble
Skip some... watch some... there are always some creative gems in that giant glob of commercials
- .LAG liked that
Half of the time, the commercials are better than what's on. That's when I actually bother to turn the TV on once or twice a month...
- Kamilah Gill
Let em roll. I pick a channel and stay there. All that flipping makes my brain hurt
- Lindsey is Fierce!
skip. (Unless the commercial is really good, and then I might watch it multiple times).
- Mitchell Tsai
I try to skip. But typically I end up cursing the "Live TV" notification that pops up in the corner. I then proceed to press the skip button over and over again, like it's going to help. It's that "maybe the elevator will get here faster" button pressing.
- Jason Huebel
I skip if I can.
- Carmen
Skip. I tried skipping through Monday Night Football last night. But it was, um, live.
- Derrick
skip
- Amber, Random Time Lord
Skip. I hate commercials.
- Ayşe E.
Skip most of them. Watch ones I think might be funny or interesting.
- David Cook
I skip them, but I notice that when my wife has the remote she usually doesn't bother. Of course she's much more inclined to watch stuff live than I am too.
- Eoghann Irving
skip.............fast forward as fast as I can............oh I failed to say I dvr one night and watch the next.............
- VAL D.
commercials? what are those?
- Joe Silence is not dead
If I'm watching with my kids I usually have to let them roll as they watch mostly for the ads (especially football). Otherwise I'll skip if I remember.
- Kenton
On the Homebuyers Tax Credit - http://divisionoflabour.com/archive...
AJ Kohn and Jeff P. Henderson liked this
Not only that, but people looking to buy houses can actually be hurt by the tax credit because it artificially jacks up the price of houses. No actual value is being created by having this tax credit. We should be investing in creation and production, not the buying and selling of existing assets. But this is what happens when 70% of GDP is consumer spending.
- Cristo
I'm with Cristo. I'm actually in the market and right now people are holding back inventory because they think they'll get a better price when the tax credit is back in place. So, instead of having house values reflect the real market price we instead are keeping them artificially high through goosing demand with fake-believe money. Who really wins here? The banks who get to charge their rate on a larger loan.
- AJ Kohn
Yea, think of all of the people who were able to by a house just in time to become unemployed and lose said house in the next year.
- Jeff P. Henderson
"The Treasury tax-oversight office said at least 19,000 filers who hadn't bought homes claimed $139 million in tax credits and were reimbursed. In true government form, it appears that Congress will extend the credit and may even expand it."
- Alex Scrivener
I tend to agree with Scoble about the "forum problem", but at the same time I really like seeing comments. I'm not sure what the solution is, but I think it's less of an issue if you keep groups relatively small. re: http://scobleizer.com/2009...
Nicola Greco, Marc Dong, John Serra and 81 other people liked this
I think the current FriendFeed approach is close to optimal. Do you not see it that way?
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
FF has the inherant ability for the user to take control, both of what they see and the comments they allow. If a user is judicious in their lists and/or filters they should see mostly relevent content (IF that's what they actually want to see). The ability for a poster to moderate comments on their own post gives us the ability to avoid trolls/spam and/or steer the conversation (again,...
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- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Scoble and other "super users" have this problem much more than regular people because they have thousands of subscribers. This is also part of the reason that Twitter probably works better for celebrities -- it's more of a broadcast channel.
- Paul Buchheit
They could have a million subscribers and it wouldn't be an issue, Paul: turn off comments on his FF posts and it would be all broadcast all the time. It's the number of people they choose to subscribe TO that is the issue. To be honest, it's like someone walking into a football stadium and then complaining that it's too loud. If one chooses to follow thosuands of people one must surely expect that the amount of 'noise' is going to increase.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
One thing that was tossed around a while back was the ability to disable comments from anyone you're not subscribed to: that'd allow those with a lot of subscribers to have high-signal conversations that their subscribers can still see and gain value from.
- Mark Trapp
Perhaps he'd like a 'hide user' button similar to FB? This would prevent the "brings people into YOUR life that YOU DID NOT INVITE!" effect... of course the conversation could be rather disjointed. Maybe a small 'additional comments hidden' status that would show them when desired... Of course, without the conversations, FF == twitter?
- Eric Borisch
Paul, can you help me test something? :)
- directeur
The features that would make FF optimal would be to let users follow each other's hides and blocks. For most users this would be a nice, small improvement. For users like scobleizer it might make a huge difference. Of course, implementation details matter.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
The problem is that we don't keep groups relatively small. There are always those who are like me who like to connect, for one, but even normal people add tons of people to their groups. It's just natural. I remember I was first to add 1,000 people to my Twitter account and people thought I was weird. Now thousands of people do that.
- Robert Scoble
One thing with Facebook is they capped it at 5,000 friends. Which kept it from being used by super-connectors but also caused it to be seen as a place where you talk with just your real life friends. Now that public pages are coming on strong, we're seeing that change.
- Robert Scoble
Bruce: the FriendFeed approach is far from optimal. Many, many people told me they don't like joining a forum and like just lurking instead, which is why they chose Twitter (Tim O'Reilly is not the only one who told me this). Tim Robbins likes that on Twitter he can listen to his heros. He sees it as a learning engine. Those of us here love FriendFeed because it lets us talk. But it definitely turns off lots of people.
- Robert Scoble
Paul: the solution is to let us toggle comments on and off. Give the USER CONTROL. If they just want to listen to their friends, hide all the other noise. But then give us who like commenting ability to turn that back on.
- Robert Scoble
You have the ability to toggle comments on and off: Edit -> Disable Comments.
- Mark Trapp
Robert, comments _are_ content.
- directeur
Mark: that is on a PER ITEM BASIS though. Totally useless for what we're talking about.
- Robert Scoble
directeur: yes, but they are content a LOT of people don't want to see or deal with.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, but then you'll be a megaphone broadcasting "your" views.
- directeur
Robert has the same comments (or the same potential) on his blog as he does on FriendFeed, so I don't think it's the comments themselves. I think it's the fact that FriendFeed makes comments almost on equal level as the original post, instead of burying them way down at the bottom of a page or requiring a click to view. Out of sight, out of mind, right?
- Daniel Sims
Nothing in the API precludes someone from writing a FriendFeed client that hides all the comments so you just see a river of feed items. That's how Twhirl, AlertThingy, and all the native iPhone apps implement FriendFeed.
- Mark Trapp
I have two arms. I barely use my left one. Please cut it off!
- directeur
Turning comments off entirely would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. If you could authorize other users to delete comments on your items, you could minimize the forum problem.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
directeur: that's right. That's what most professional publishers want.
- Robert Scoble
I really think the "comments are awesome, why would you ever want to get rid of comments" argument falls on deaf ears at this point. The solution ought to be how to turn off comments if you want to get Scoble (or the people he's saying he represents) back on the FriendFeed train, or to say they're not worth it. I do think if it weren't for the comments, there'd be at least a half dozen other things Scoble or people like him would come up with to not like FriendFeed at this point.
- Mark Trapp
I like the idea of having another options to disable comments for people you're not subscribed to. That way you can allow conversation, but limit it to people you "know" if it makes you more comfortable or limits the noise. I think you should have the ability to set the option as a default for all new posts but be able to override it on a post-by-post basis: 1) public comments 2)...
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- Her Lindsay-ness
Her Linday-ness: I want that but it would be hard to design.
- Robert Scoble
Mark, I think you make a valid point but then the question becomes: if there are no comments, is FF still the best medium to use? If so, then the ability to turn off comments on one's entire feed should be easy enough to code and implement. I suspect, though, that all things being equal (meaning: there's no ability to comment on an item) FF would no longer be the best medium for a broadcaster.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Mark: I don't think these people will consider FriendFeed at this point. Too much momentum over on Twitter. Look at the news brands: http://twitter.com/Scoblei... you're not going to get them to switch off of Twitter at this point. Sorry. That game is over.
- Robert Scoble
I think the real game is how does Facebook evolve?
- Robert Scoble
The real game is an open decentralized solution. yes, I'm a dreamer.
- directeur
Which leads everyone to wonder why you're trying to nitpick a feature like this, or base your argument on the lack of the feature. The real reason why you (and others like you) aren't into FriendFeed isn't because of the forum problem or the lack of a feature, it's because you think Twitter is better and that's where everyone is. That's fine: that's a great argument. The rest of it is inconsequential to that argument, and wouldn't invalidate it even if you got your way. So what's the point?
- Mark Trapp
I've been talking with a lot of brands and celebrities and regular people. For public studying they like Twitter better. That has Facebook wondering what it will be in the future.
- Robert Scoble
Mark: sorry, but I spent two years talking to thousands of people about FriendFeed and I'm just passing along why they didn't like it. Take that feedback or leave it. Your choice.
- Robert Scoble
Mark: did you speak at dozens of conferences about FriendFeed and Twitter? Did you show hundreds of tech influentials FriendFeed and listen to their feedback?
- Robert Scoble
But your feedback doesn't correlate to the real reason why you, and the people you say you represent, are saying why you won't ever use FriendFeed. You said there's nothing anyone could do to get people to use FriendFeed.
- Mark Trapp
Mark: if I want to listen to ONLY tech influentials, I can on Twitter. I can't on Facebook. I can't on FriendFeed. http://twitter.com/Scoblei...
- Robert Scoble
Robert, if you're going to pull the "don't you know who I am?" crap, it falls on deaf ears. Let's have a constructive conversation on what you're trying to talk about.
- Mark Trapp
Can't you make lists in FF?
- Andrizzle Gizzle
Sure you can: you can import feeds and lists on FriendFeed.
- Mark Trapp
Mark: times change and at this point it would be hard to get anyone to take FriendFeed seriously. That said, I believe that it IS possible to move people from Facebook to Twitter or Twitter to Facebook, so THAT is the real battlefront.
- Robert Scoble
any comment thread about 20+ without threading and community promotion/demotion becomes difficult to participate in (for me). Though there is a difference between discussing the radiator on a 94 Subaru and the nature of discussion forums.
- Hayes Haugen
Robert: is the problem really comments or the fact that each time an item gets commented, the items pops back at the top of the list? Regarding the noise, I think that the "problem" with friendfeed is that it was much easier for people to plug in automated feeds and that as a result, there was less of an explicit action. I do not know how other people feel about this but I really miss...
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- Edwin Khodabakchian
Mark: OK, show me your public list the way I did on Twitter. You can't do that here, sorry.
- Robert Scoble
Hayes: BING BING BING.
- Robert Scoble
Ok, so it's not about who you read, it's who you can show that you are reading.
- Andrizzle Gizzle
Bing goes the internet! lol
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Sure Twitter has a lot of momentum now, but how quickly the winds change. Frankly, it's a shame that FF is going to be neglected... I wish that someone with as much motivation and insight as Paul and the original team could take it over now that FB has consumed them. There is still SO MUCH potential in this platform that it is depressing to see it squandered. @Robert - I don't think it...
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- Her Lindsay-ness
Robert, I don't use public lists: I believe you read my blog post about why I don't. But Hutch Carpenter does, and here's his FriendFeed public list on Innovation Management: http://friendfeed.com/innovat...
- Mark Trapp
Robert, who do you call "influentials"? Do they talk "tech" all the day? Isn't it unhuman? Let's go back to spring/summer 2008, and redefine "smart" for me, please :)
- directeur
Edwin: the problem is on FriendFeed it has the chat problem -- it gets noisy and gets noisy fast.
- Robert Scoble
directeur: influentials are people who influence. I picked them. Shoot me.
- Robert Scoble
The noise is largely proportional to the circles you're in. If you put yourself in a huge room, it will be a loud room.
- Kevin Fox
Robert, do you remember the "MOAR NOISE" phrase? It was THE reason why I built NoiseRiver. Filters, I used to say when you were always saying: MORE NOISE!
- directeur
Kevin: exactly. But on FriendFeed the room gets big VERY QUICKLY because as more people join they drag in their followers with them.
- Robert Scoble
Facebook has the same problem. While we're chatting here, tons of tech news diversity have swooped by.
- Robert Scoble
So Robert, should there be something built in to "warn" others of becoming "chatty". Something that says: "This comment is irrelevant. You may post again when you have something relevant and germane to our discussion"? So WHO makes those distinctions and judgements?
- Melanie Reed
Compare this chat to http://twitter.com/Scoblei... which one brought more information to you? The chat is more fun, cause we're engaged, but it's noisy and if you don't care about it, a waste of time.
- Robert Scoble
Melanie: in a chat room you can't control people that way.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: True, but [big number]*[average number] is far larger than [average number]*[average number]
- Kevin Fox
Hayes you are correct. Slashdot has actually had the best discussion forums for more than ten years because it has threading and community moderation. Its not a trendy social networking site though so no one notices. If you had a social network site where you post topics but with Slashdot like forums it would rock. Only down side is moderators tend to inject bias but /. has good signal after moderation kicks in
- Ed Millard
Robert, I don't care about more information. I have more than enough. :)
- Melanie Reed
Does it really have to be one or the other Robert?
- Internet's Tad
from fftogo
(Where you (scoble) are the big number)
- Kevin Fox
Kevin: the problem with FriendFeed is if you and Melanie were having a conversation it would be pretty small, right? But I follow you. The second I touch your conversation it gets big.
- Robert Scoble
If only someone could figure out how to make a room that gets big very quickly appeal to broadcasters...
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
This problem doesn't happen on the private Facebook because you have two-way friending there and a cap of 5,000. But on Facebook Pages? Absolutely. Noise baby noise!
- Robert Scoble
Bruce: broadcasters don't like any of this because there's no way to monetize. Why do you think Arrington really hated this?
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I don't care about more information. I have more than enough. :) What I would like is what Tad is implying in his comment. You know you can have "...two opposites that have learned how to blaze together" ;) And excuse me, but is wrong with a big conversation?
- Melanie Reed
"The chat is more fun, cause we're engaged, but it's noisy and if you don't care about it, a waste of time. " If someone doesn't care about it on FF, they can hide it and not see it again. Problem solved.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Chatting is not intended to provide information. It is like planning -- it is the process of chatting that is what is useful not the words that are spoken/written.
- Brian Sullivan
Thank you, Tina! and Brian!
- Melanie Reed
Melanie: I love big conversations. That's why I loved FriendFeed. But most people aren't like me.
- Robert Scoble
Tina: there are so many things going by on my screen in FriendFeed that hiding them all would take all day long.
- Robert Scoble
Robert -- why is it that you think that people are like you and things should be done for your needs?
- Brian Sullivan
FF is too busy!!
- Joe Silence is not dead
Brian: again, it's not about me.
- Robert Scoble
Robert one word: APML. I used to yell it back in 2008, no one cared. You want "filters" by personal interest.
- directeur
FreiendFeed sold ME on it two years ago. I've been trying to sell others on it. The feedback I'm giving is from OTHERS.
- Robert Scoble
The Forum Problem is a problem?
- teh Dork Knight aka Kenny
directeur: APML will never work.
- Robert Scoble
oh dear, don't hate the messenger.
- Joe Silence is not dead
Robert: who are these "others" and what are their numbers?
- Melanie Reed
Paul nailed it - Twitter is a broadcast channel. Massive amounts of subscriptions are fine there - it's all about reach. But if you want discovery, if you want to engage, then FriendFeed and FoaF is where it's all. They're NOT the same. One you can subscribe/follow as many as you want, in the other, subscription abuse will cripple your ability to view and interact.
- AJ Kohn
Finally, a thread on this subject that makes sense.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Threading may or may not help... it seemed to hurt with GoogleWave... it was so hard to follow all the tangents... of course without threading a lot of the tangents just get lost anyway. I guess I have given up on trying to catch everything... If it's important and I didn't see it the first time, eventually the concept will bubble up enough times for me to notice. That's one NICE thing about following lots of people and participating in lots of convos.
- Her Lindsay-ness
why won't APML, or something like it, work? i missed that memo
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Robert, go say this to Last.fm or the BBC :-) Smart recommendation engines are the future
- directeur
FriendFeed may make some audience/discussion leak out, but also makes audience leak in through seeing what your friends are talking about. Arrington may be mostly concerned about the leak out. Other broadcasters may be looking for the leak in.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
Marshall, me neither! :)
- directeur
Also, the meta around the content in FF (likes, comments) is what helps turns random data into information. It's annotated and qualified.
- AJ Kohn
Lindsay: true
- Hayes Haugen
Thank you, AJ, yes. And you can sort that out when you want to on your own time. That's the utility of it.
- Melanie Reed
Perhaps one solution to the 'forum problem' is to allow posters to selectively choose who can participate in the discussion but still be viewable to the public.
- Rodfather
So maybe the real question is, why do some people prefer conversation over broadcasting and vice versa? Is the broadcast-mentality simply a matter of popularity (the inability to reciprocate all the connections, so just broadcast instead) or is the effort it takes to connect with people on a more meaningful basis a major turn-off? Or is it just the tools that people use and what makes it easier for them?
- Her Lindsay-ness
Rodfather, this will bring wars. Trust me. I'm not a commercial object. So you want to SHOUT and ask me to close my mouth? :) Moreover, close comments, other threads will be started and the noise you wanted to avoid will be even greater. The Streisand Effect, anyone? :)
- directeur
For example: this discussion has 80+ comments and rolling. I don't mind that at all. I am engaged. I am also updating a web page on our web site as I do it and switching over to grade 30 some PRF's for students on the play Macbeth. I am not having any trouble with the "forum problem" or any "chattiness" I learned the "ropes" of FF when I joined and accepted that it as it was.
- Melanie Reed
To me FF turns data (the river of content out there) into information (the good stuff - explained). The tool set FF provides is superior in this way - but it takes time to dial in the right set of filters to apply to the data set (which changes!) and many simply overwhelm the great filtering system they've provided.
- AJ Kohn
A lot of people don't want to put in the time and effort to make the tool work for them like you, AJ and Melanie. I can empathize with that. I think it also has to serve their base inclination of either broadcasting or conversation, and the tool choice is also influenced by whether they already are part of a community on it or not. Most people won't leave their community even if it us using the less appropriate tool for their inclination.
- Her Lindsay-ness
directeur, then those people can make their own thread and allow everyone to comment. I'm thinking of in case there's a roundtable event where certain 'experts' in a field can have a thread to discuss a topic among themselves without worrying about others cluttering the thread.
- Rodfather
AJ, indeed - the task is to build new concepts with and for filters. Filters, not to shut stuff out, but to mix it better to create a constant flow of narratives.
- David Bausola
AJ, is it more that FF provides the platform for the users to turn that data into information? The users are integral to FF. Now with Twitter you can program a week's worth of tweets (I have heard) but I don't wish to do that. Facebook... you could almost do that-although it does have engagement -you could certainly use it without. But FF runs on an engagement engine
- Melanie Reed
Marshall: I don't trust automatic systems to guess what I'm going to be interested in next. Never seen a system yet that works. But we should debate this.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, we should debate it! The robot that makes all my decisions for me says it's quite likely I would enjoy doing that! ;)
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
That's getting into intelligent agents and AI once full blown
- Melanie Reed
if you ask me, and you don't, the problem has always been lack of comment moderation and threading. Too many users isn't a problem if no one sees them. Slashdot was one of the first doing this, using an interface which is actually very similar to FF and it seems to work there.
- Vincent van Wylick
Web tech needs to look outside their dev environments for richer influences in filter design: http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- David Bausola
Is the problem that Robert is looking for a single service solution. I see the same 'content' on Twitter and FriendFeed but I scan Twitter for 'raw information' and go to FriendFeed to 'discuss' it with others. I watch the news at home on TV but I talk about it with my friends or work colleagues around the water cooler or coffee shop table. I am comfortable existing in several spaces
- Johnny Worthington
from iPhone
@Lindsay: I don't know. I'd rather educate people on the power that FF can provide with a little effort. Or, that it actually doesn't take LOTS of subscriptions. Max it at Dunbar's number (which is what I do for my home feed) and you'd be fine.
- AJ Kohn
+++ Johnny Scotty would be proud of you: The right tool for the job
- Melanie Reed
@David: Exactly! My home feed - I tweak it. I use people like Robert and Rob Diana and Michael Fruchter and Anthony Citrano and Thomas Hawk and numerous others to bring a mix of themes and concepts into my feed.
- AJ Kohn
So are we saying that its not the tool itself...but HOW it is or is not used that maxes utility? If so I agree!
- Melanie Reed
@Melanie: Yes, the users are the key. The users are the filters. http://www.blindfiveyearold.com/soylent... And the engagement provides a rich annotation and a secondary level of filtering. So yes, users and their engagement absolutely matter.
- AJ Kohn
Sure, yes, how you use it maxes utility. But it also helps if it's suited to how you WANT to use it... if not it's a struggle. And people don't like to struggle, even if it's possible to make something do what you want it to... easier to use another tool if it fits your purpose better. FriendFeed fits my purpose so it's not a struggle for me... but for someone with a more broadcasting mindset than a conversational one, it's going to be tougher.
- Her Lindsay-ness
Vincent, most long-time FriendFeeders have spoken strongly against any sort of moderation/rating system for comments. No one wants mobs of people trying to control what other people can see like what happens on Digg. It's why every time the topic of 'Unlike' comes up, people rise up to talk it down because it creates an aura of competition and negativity.
- Akiva Moskovitz
AJ, yes! users are the filters.
- Melanie Reed
Akiva +++
- Melanie Reed
Anybody use Mailchimp here? It is tangential to the discussion. They have a cracker jack built in user educational system that monitors and makes usage suggestions.
- Melanie Reed
Is lunchtime finally over yet?
- Hayes Haugen
I'd love to peek in on the recommendation engine discussions. I'm in the 'they don't work camp' myself but I'm open to being convinced and perhaps technology has approached a point where it could work but ... from working in eCommerce I've seen it fail time and time again. Random factors, contextual issues etc.
- AJ Kohn
@Melanie: Know of Mailchimp but don't use. The 'monitor and makes usage suggestions' sounds interesting though.
- AJ Kohn
AJ, that's because the devs didn't pay attention when their instructors (ahem) were teaching it to them. ;)
- Melanie Reed
Another point I'd like to make is that no one is forcing anyone to read the comments here. If people want a broadcast-only medium, it's fairly easy not to click on the 'x more comments' link. Unfortunately, Robert makes a painful observation: he played FriendFeed cheerleader for two years and the people who needed to take the bait didn't or did but then cut loose. That pretty much means...
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- Akiva Moskovitz
Johnny: I am comfortable with all of these too, but it's not about me. But, anyway, the business battle now is between Facebook and Twitter and it'll be interesting to see the choices that Paul's team makes and how those compare with the team NK over at Twitter is making. Then the market will choose which one is best.
- Robert Scoble
Akiva: If I were at Facebook and knew that they could turn into the next MySpace I'd put every single engineering minute onto Facebook. Wouldn't you?
- Robert Scoble
Like I said before, there is still SO MUCH potential here... and it's a shame to see it squandered. I think there are a lot of ways it could be taken to the next level. For sure it could be a contender to Twitter with a few enhancements, but fat chance of that now that there is no longer a dev team, and that it's "parent" is a competitor.
- Her Lindsay-ness
Robert, here's a good example: You want to debate intelligent recommendation agents? Allright, I know that you know Chris Saad. Chris is a very cool guy in fact! But do you know Deniz Oktar? Deniz, who is not as popular as Chris, is a SMART Turkish guy too and works on the same subject. If you limit your view to "popular" people, you'll definitely miss him. And debating such a subject without alternative ideas likes Deniz's or humbly mine, won't be perfect :)
- directeur
Not sure, Robert. Is turning into the next MySpace a good thing for you or a bad thing? For me, it'd be bad.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Akiva, go take a look at (and experience) mailchimp's monitor and make usage suggestion system. It's adaptable for a number of scenarios
- Melanie Reed
I think the business battle (other than the marketing to consumers end of it) will be occupied and won by Wave. Facebook, Twitter and FriendFeed are mere toys in that world.
- Brian Sullivan
Melanie, I'm not complaining about a solution that MailChimp could provide. I'm fine with FriendFeed as it is (for the most part).
- Akiva Moskovitz
directeur: most people choose news brands to curate and find new people that will have something valuable to say. See http://twitter.com/Scoblei... for instance. That already is TOO MUCH so telling people to get more people or more things into their lives just isn't going to cut it for most people.
- Robert Scoble
Allowing public panels where only the influential can talk certainly would have a useful role, Its just like panels at conferences. A lot of people would no doubt like to just follow the influential in these forums. On the down side it would make the already influential more so and it would probably lose some audience if it was done a lot because there is no democratic engagement. The people who don't spend all their time cultivating their fame and networks do say interesting things too.
- Ed Millard
directeur: and, anyway. if he's in Turkey and not in San Francisco he's far less likely to influence tech in a major way. So I disagree.
- Robert Scoble
(FYI - look at this conversation and tell me where else anything like this could take place.)
- AJ Kohn
No, we're completely boring and worthless, Ed. We're not worth paying attention to. I mean, who wants to see a picture of our kids? ;)
- Her Lindsay-ness
IRC or a phpBB messageboard!
- Joe Silence is not dead
Akiva, I meant for those who might struggle "getting" FF but would enjoy and benefit from it once they do. There's an "on ramp" to FF that rivals North Corridor Dallas coming out of an apt complex on to 50mph+ 4 lane traffic. Some of us are better at that than others, but you still see a lot of cars on the road. :)
- Melanie Reed
There has also been a lack of creative uses using the FF tool sets. Good uses of the tools inspires participation + it's easy to criticize -- harder to create.
- David Bausola
@Robert: Whoa, whoa. Weren't you arguing that adding 8K new people from Twitter Lists was a good thing? Is more better, or worse?
- AJ Kohn
+++David
- Melanie Reed
@David: Good point, no real developer platform. That's been a big boon for both Facebook and Twitter.
- AJ Kohn
Robert, yet he DOES. You just aren't into that speciality :) If you think that every "tech" thing must happen in SF you really miss A LOT.
- directeur
Woah, Robert, so you are saying anyone who doesn't live in SF doesn't count in a tech discussion? That's a little self centered isn't it?
- Ed Millard
I understand it but I really dislike any discussions where the topic seems to be "how can we turn this thing that the people who use it like into something that people who don't use it and would only use it for selfish reasons like?" Screw them. If something's not as "techy" as Slashdot and it's more chaotic because the comments aren't threaded like Slashdot and there's no moderation...
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- Mark H
Lindsay, I want to see a picture of your kids. I only wish I had some to show back. ;)
- Melanie Reed
Ed: you are NOT a careful reader.
- Robert Scoble
Robert's not saying that those ideas can't happen, or that a true revelation can't come from elsewhere, but that ... the likelihood that someone outside of SF to influence tech is less. The Capital of the Internet is SF. I'd agree with that. But that doesn't mean it'll always stay that way, nor does it mean that tech from other areas can't be influential. (least that's how I read it.)
- AJ Kohn
OK I just read it, you still said if you don't live in SF there is very little chance you will have any influence on tech. If you have no influence then you either have nothing to say on the subject, or even if you do have something to say it wont matter.
- Ed Millard
Hrm, I think the whole thing is overblown. My personal FF landing page still has as much utility as my first day (if not more). Bleh, whatever.
- Chieze Okoye
@AJ The FF API is beautiful, I don't think dev communities saw the richness that you can create with the aggregation of FF streams. A few valley PR oriented bloggers pushed 'conversation' as FF's 'killer app' - whereas, the realtime aggregation streams and republishing of content is radical and unique.
- David Bausola
Well I'm pretty sure all the people in Seattle, Toronto, Paris, London, Moscow,Tokyo, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Beijing, Bangalore, Boulder, etc. probably disagree
- Ed Millard
@David: I'll take your word on the API and wouldn't doubt it given the FF team's chops. But fostering usage, that community - that's where things may have gotten shaky. Too few people leveraging it. It could still resolve back to an inability to really grasp what FF can do for them.
- AJ Kohn
AJ, I think you're on to something. Back in the day, usability (including general user and disabled) use to be a well-known topic. Universities made it a part of the curriculum. Everything before and including e-commerce got the once over. But it occurs that the latest generation (including GLS and SM) have outpaced the community standards for usability. It's really the wild west again-...
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- Melanie Reed
Akiva: I suspect the noise problem Robert's describing from others isn't that comment threads get too long. It's that items keep popping to the top as new comments show up, when they don't want to see the new comments. I don't see any way around that except a separate client. It would take too much away from the FriendFeed experience for the default interface not to work this way.
- Bruce Lewis
Mark, I didn't mean to suggest /. is the only solution to the forum problem. If you have really big forum discussions /. is time tested way to control noise and raise the signal level. On the other hand it would probably be a horrible solution for intimate and friendly discussions among friends. Someone earlier Lindsey? kind of had a good suggestion. When you make a post have a row of option buttons and let the poster set the kind of forum for that thread, broadcast, panel, open, modded, thredded, not..
- Ed Millard
Ed: I specifically said "far less likely." I didn't say there is very little chance. But, seriously, this is an argument for another thread. Lots of people think they have influence but actually don't have as much. For instance, I love to think I have influence on Facebook but I'm far less likely to influence that then Paul Buchheit is. Facts are facts.
- Robert Scoble
Chieze glad you like FriendFeed. Me too. It's awesome. But that doesn't mean much to the rest of the world.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, how often do you use "Add This"? It's germane :)
- Melanie Reed
OK we will agree to disagree on that one and drop it. I've lived in the bay off and on, I think there are pluses and minuses to being there.
- Ed Millard
Melanie: "Add This" being the "Add Photos" at top of FriendFeed? Not as much as I should.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: No this service: http://www.addthis.com/ This is fast becoming the SM share button for many websites. Ours uses it. And FF is on it. Take a look at the entire list
- Melanie Reed
FriendFeed's feature set will mean a lot to the rest of the world when it's fully integrated into Facebook in 2011.
- Bruce Lewis
Bruce: I don't think it'll take that long.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, you may be right, in which case FriendFeed is a relevant thing to look at. Maybe it isn't actually too far ahead of its time.
- Bruce Lewis
Just like Lisp can make you a better programmer in other languages, FriendFeed can make you a better thinker when writing about other social networks. Popularity isn't everything, even for a blogger.
- Bruce Lewis
You mean, it's not all about attention? :D
- Her Lindsay-ness
Who really knows why Twitter got all the traction? Does Scoble? I very much doubt it. I think there's a great effort going into finding a logical explanation for Twitter massive success and FriendFeeds more modest gains. My own best guess is that it has more to do with the madness of crowds than it does with any limitation in FriendFeed. Twitter had a decent enough foothold already by...
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- David Hall
from FreshFeed
Twitter got the traction because Twitter's easy. It requires very little effort to get into and it requires even less to participate. It's the same reason why YouTube comments are the cesspool of the Internet and MetaFilter's comments are not: anyone can sit around and watch videos all day and then trash talk them but you make people pay to comment and you'll weed out the chaff almost...
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- Akiva Moskovitz
David: I was there from early days on Twitter and studied how it grew. I know more than you might think. Remember, I was the first person to follow 1,000 people there and I was the 13,800ish user to join.
- Robert Scoble
This link is the most illuminating one on FF traction at the time of the buyout. It indicates FF was just starting to regain traction after it had stalled out for a while and it suggests if maybe FF had stuck it out a while longer things might have changed. http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
- Ed Millard
Twitter got hot in the early days because of Leo Laporte and because of SXSW and because it was goofy fun way for tech influencers to talk to their friends. It just kept growing from there. Another factor in addition to simplicity (Akiva's right there) is the API. Tons of clients and tools and services are built on top of it. FriendFeed got nearly none in comparison.
- Robert Scoble
The difference may be luck of the draw ( a la Gladwell)
- Brian Sullivan
People had to build tons of clients, tools and services for Twitter because the default web UI is so bad.
- Ed Millard
Ed: what that graph doesn't show you is what we now know. Google Wave sucked a lot of attention of geek influentials away (IE Hype) and Facebook's Connect is running away with another game. I went into FriendFeed the week they decided to sell and asked them because I knew Twitter had new features coming that would make FriendFeed less interesting. I think the FriendFeed team looked at the competition and decided to fold.
- Robert Scoble
How could I have ignored the API? It's like Firefox's plug-ins: it's the only thing that makes Twitter usable for many users. Without it, they wouldn't touch it. Heck, if it weren't for Tweetie 2, I wouldn't touch it either.
- Akiva Moskovitz
And Facebook's Connect platform is getting incorporated everywhere. I think FriendFeed was hoping to become part of the general web, like what we did over on http://building43.com and that just wasn't going to happen because Facebook's Connect platform is rocking and rolling now. In fact, I made a fundamental blunder by not going with Facebook on Building43. If I had, our traffic would have been much higher than it is now.
- Robert Scoble
You can be sure that once CNN and other assorted media outlets started plugging Twitter it was game over. Once the band wagon was rolling every "personality" was going to hop on. It is a little disturbing that Miley Cyrus has now joined the "everyone should delete their Twitter accounts" camp.
- Ed Millard
David Hall +1 Steven Berlin Johnson would be a good reference - the persistence of babble is incredible valuable in phatic communications. FF, through the web interface hides a lot of that. Instead, the babble was more bookmark centric and less about 'having a sandwich'. That's why you have, on the whole, better conversation threads on FF, and ending up having to duck out of the way of...
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- David Bausola
Disturbing REALLY????? My word, Miley is absolutely right <sarcasm/>
- Roberto Bonini
To paraphrase Louis Gray's wife, "nerds in startups are fickle". I speculate they had a lot of self doubt when they stalled out prior to that up tick, and decided to sell just about the time FF was starting to take off again. Someone waves $50 million at you during a period of self questioning that is a potent motivator, I think Zuckerberg saw that and he did nip a potential competitor in the bud.
- Ed Millard
But all the above comments is about public sharing. I use FF a lot for project planning and development - it's fast - you can discuss items with good archive search, and you can post media. I wonder how many people use FF in this way, and ignore the public babble?
- David Bausola
Having read most of this thread (and Robert, comments are VERY valueble) the"forum problem" is NP-complete. Comments are valuable becuase seeing people reason is often just as enlightening, if not more so, than the original information.
- Roberto Bonini
Ed - mind you, there's only a few ways you can get to the helm of the FB API design and product development. :) Who's to say this isn't all going according to plan?
- David Bausola
Roberto: me and you agree on that. In my research most people do not. They see these things as noise. But, if you make the comments toggle on and off we BOTH win! Plus, comments REALLY help search!
- Robert Scoble
Ed: correction, it was $50 million.
- Robert Scoble
Robert you keep talking about "your research". Is this anything more than anecdotal conversations?
- Brian Sullivan
David, Well maybe Paul and Co. are doing a trojan horse on FB but what I've read about Zuckerberg he doesn't seem likely to relinquish control of anything he cares about and I am skeptical you are going to turn FB in to FF with their entrenched user base.
- Ed Millard
@Scoble you're arguing from authority again. I think on a broadcast platform like Twitter that's an easier one to pull off. On Twitter it's a big "so what" if you've posted a load of BS because most people will simply miss any challenge to your "content." Post the same on FriendFeed and you get tackled and you get tackled in public. Reasonable enough grounds to explain your current stance and certainly as good as any reason I've heard you put forward yourself.
- David Hall
Robert, I stand corrected, and it is corrected, this editing your posts thing is one of FF's scarier features.
- Ed Millard
OPEN QUESTION: Is FF gaining or losing users? I see very little here now - but I'm told user numbers are going through the roof.
- Jim Connolly
Ed: tell me one thing. What's the biggest difference between FF and FB? There's already not as much difference as you'd might think. The one thing I miss over there? Real time search.
- Robert Scoble
Twitter got big because it's about ego. Look at me, Me, ME! Twitter flourished because people like to talk about themselves. (FF is not, which is why it hasn't gained nearly as much traction.) It was developed as an update service. It has evolved into ... something else. As for comments, they are invaluable.
- AJ Kohn
Jim: user numbers are not going through the roof here. I don't know anyone credible who has said that. The registered numbers are going up, but the active numbers are going down.
- Robert Scoble
AJ: FriendFeed is just as much about ego as Twitter is. If not more so.
- Robert Scoble
Ed, the goal is to design influentially for the web. Paul B does seem to give that ethos in his startup camp talks and general interviews. I would think FB would warm to that ideology.
- David Bausola
Very true. Robert.
- Roberto Bonini
@Robert: How? Seriously, I'd like to hear your opinion.
- AJ Kohn
Robert: In other words, as people like yourself, Arrington and even those little guys like myself with a couple of thousand subscribers leave - we're being replaced by less active users. Makes sense. I used to check in on and off all day. Now, 2/3 times a week,
- Jim Connolly
Jim: not true. I don't see a lot of people joining in here and I'm watching it closely. Sorry. More people are leaving the back door than are coming in the front.
- Robert Scoble
To me the two big ones are 1) perception that it more walled garden networks and not as open though certainly it has avenues which are more open like FF 2) its home to massive quantities of apps, games, spam from people trying to get rich that hold no interest to me, though obviously many others like them. FF is probably just overlooked by that crowd, if it were bigger it would be infected with all that crap too. FF seems to mostly just be good people from my limited time here.
- Ed Millard
All User Centric Design is modeled around the ego. Good software design keeps that in mind. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...
- David Bausola
AJ: Twitter is, for many people, about business now. Not ego at all. News brands: http://twitter.com/#... no ego. Tech companies: http://twitter.com/Scoblei... No ego. But here? It's ALL about ego!
- Robert Scoble
David is right.
- Robert Scoble
On Twitter the default is to show number you follow, number of followers, number of Tweets. That's all playing on ego and popularity. Nearly everything (even lists) is geared to stimulate a innate need to acquire more of something as a way to ... validate contribution or perceived influence or authority. FF does not show this in the default mode.
- AJ Kohn
Companies and brands are the most aggressive form of ego there is, and they usually are direct reflections of the ego of the company's CEO.
- Ed Millard
Alright Robert. In order to reduce the signal to noise ratio, we can do one of two things, we can use "Likes" to filter the comment stream. If I Like more posts from Robert than i do from LG, Roberts comments appear but not LG's. We can use semantics to (somehow) sort the thread and show comments relevant to the original post. (simply dumping noise isin't a solution - not all noise is noise all the time. Likewise, increasing signal in an echo chamber is fruitless)
- Roberto Bonini
@Robert: Oh, I think Twitter is a great business tool! It's a marketers paradise. But I'm not sure that's what most people believe it to be. People still think they're going to get some sort of social dialog there. I think it's why Twitter churn is so high. People get it thinking it'll be one thing and quickly find out it's another.
- AJ Kohn
+1 AJ, there are some people that use Twitter in awesome, constructive, useful, ways like Tim O'Reilly and Jay Rosen but a lot of people its pure self promotion. As for news outlets using twitter they are going to go wherever the eyeballs are, and they will go to multiple networks not just Twitter. Those are pure broadcast, no engagement, they aren't really a ringing endorsement of why Twitter is great.
- Ed Millard
I'd bet FF *would* take off (but be worse for it) if it listed how many times the content I fed got liked and commented on, and that (along with subscribers etc.) were all listed right there at the top of my home feed. And that upon signing up, I'd get suggested users based on subscriptions but also who got the most likes and comments. Yet, I don't think that's conducive to what FF really excels at.
- AJ Kohn
@Robert, biggest difference between Facebook and Friendfeed - reciprocal connections. Without a doubt. The apps, the ads, other stuff, is true, but for me the central difference, and the thing that betrays a fundamental difference of worldview between the two apps is whether or not you can follow someone's content without them having to follow you back. You can only do that on Facebook...
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- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
@Ed: I realized a long time ago that Twitter was a big Internet megaphone. And if you could get a lot of people to 'listen' to that megaphone well, that's powerful stuff. It's about Reach. Twitter gives your message reach. Nothing wrong with that. I just don't see it as ... transforming.
- AJ Kohn
Those who study the art of propaganda consider reach to be everything, because following reach is influence, and following influence is control. TV is losing its reach in the Internet era so most of those "brands" and "personalites" are rushing to find a way to regain it, enter Twitter and FB. They are better because they are bidirectional.
- Ed Millard
*Noise* :)
- ashish
@Ed: I'd be interested to see more on how reach leads to influence. It often does but ... not always. Plenty of multi-million dollar ad campaigns in the graveyard as examples. Reach + ? = influence.
- AJ Kohn
Ed I think you're right. I caught that TC piece at the time too. Seems to me that the FriendFeed guys had a bit of a crisis of confidence and grabbed lunch while it was on offer. In any case I always figured FriendFeed as a place to graduate to once you'd rammed up against Twitters limitations. And, as I'm sure you know, that doesn't take long. That's how I got here. I was actually on...
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- David Hall
You don't have influence until you have reach so its the prerequisite. Then it a matter of how effectively you craft the message and push the buttons in your target audience. Some people are good at that part, some aren't, some fail, some succeed.
- Ed Millard
Robert, I just wonder. Isn't twitter more about consuming the information and FF more about sharing and discussing? Look at http://twitter.com/Scoblei.... What can anyone add to that or comment on that? I agree it is getting a lot noisy in here (exhibit, this post). But not all posts will be this noisy I think.
- Amit
+1 Jandy, she answered Robert's challenge to me better than I did.
- Ed Millard
@Ed: I'm not sure. New memes start with someone small sometimes. Say ... keyboard cat ... and someone who has reach communicates that message and it goes big. So who has the influence? The creator of keyboard cat or the person to has the reach to make it go big? I find it very interesting.
- AJ Kohn
Jandy: +100. You just nailed for me why I like Twitter and FriendFeed better than Facebook. Agreed.
- Robert Scoble
Robertt, maybe this post and the scads of comments prove your point, but maybe your point is limited to your own experience due to your unique position in tech. You speak, noise follows. But that does not make Friendfeed irrelevant or useless for the average or even just left or right of average user. You have a unique experience that is going to color any forum you put your time into....
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- Martha
+++Jandy
- Melanie Reed
Well put, Jandy.
- Akiva Moskovitz
I think the forum problem is not as big in smaller more intimate groups. Recently I've been very active in the DMU group here that includes a lot of folks who've migrated here from Flickr. The relevancy is much more higher in these venues than in the main feed because it's a smaller controlled experience. I do wish though that groups were more full featured like the rest of FF though....
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- Thomas Hawk
oh of course and photo voting pools for groups would by awesome too. ;)
- Thomas Hawk
Lists are not enough. Twitter, FF and other social networks need tagging by default, then filter on list + tag. That's the element that would kill the noise and turn them into interest networks.
- howard shippin
from BuddyFeed
Martha: you might have a point if we were just talking about me. But we're not. So, try again. Again, I've talked with thousands of people about these things. They tell me they don't like the noise that public forums bring. I've been doing this for 25 years and this isn't the first time I've heard this pushback. Facebook, by the way, on its iPhone app, handles it perfectly: it hides all...
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- Robert Scoble
You all keep referring to this as either chat or comments when actually its a discussion. I think that the ability to discuss anything on Friend Feed or anywhere else for that matter IS where you learn the most. I'm not techy like most of you, I'm just an ordinary 'average' user, but I see twitter more as a 'newsreel' of info, shallow but instant, whereas Friend Feed is more a 'thrashing out of ideas and opnions, and is therefore all the richer for it.
- Sandra Large
Sandra: chat/discussion/forum/comments are all pretty much the same thing. Yes, the two are different. There CAN be lots of learning here, it's just that this is a lot noiser than other online things in some ways.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, about noise: when you or other tech influencers introduce FriendFeed, you show the things you're excited about, which tend to be big and noisy, right? And if you're the first person someone follows on FF, they're going to get a noisy first impression. The slower growth that doesn't come through tech influencers may have less of a back door.
- Bruce Lewis
And about the 25+-year-old forum problem: Moderated Usenet was great until moderators slacked off. Decentralized moderation fixes that, at least for small discussions. Larger discussions can lead to whack-a-mole (though I notice this one hasn't), but with one of the suggestions I made earlier in this conversation the number of whackers could scale with the number of moles.
- Bruce Lewis
Moderation = censorship. Censorship sucks. Give the users control to hide and block. The less censorship the better.
- Thomas Hawk
@Paul - what about a view to only see the user's posts/content ie no comments of others and no likes => then it becomes twitter like
- Kishore Balakrishnan
Come on, it's hardly messier than Facebook, since the default view only includes the first and last comment. Basically the gist I'm getting is that people who think they're important don't want to listen to people who they don't think are important. Such is the human race, I suppose.
- Victor Ganata
+++Victor hammer meets nail.
- David Hall
Robert said "FB iPhone app ... hides all comments with an arrow that you can then use to expand the comments. That is so much better than this mess here that it isn't funny". Robert, I must be missing your point because FF also hides most comments until you expand them because you want to read them... Don't want to read FF comments, don't expand them, problem solved. Or are you saying FF is a "mess" because it shows first and last comment?
- Ed Millard
235 comments! I really don't want to expand *that* on FF! Is this a pain-point for anyone else?
- Space Cowboy
Not for me. If I'm interested enough in the topic or dialog I'll click the time stamp and open the post page to read everything. The text amount is comparable to a medium length blog post: if I have the time to read that I have the time to read this if it interests me.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
A typical blog post? Dragging & copying the comments only (which took about a min. of scrolling) produced 9200 words and 23 pages of text. Blog posts also tend to have a more easily read narrative.
- Vincent van Wylick
The problem is for big conversations like this one you need threading and maybe moderation, but for more normal conversations that are smaller flat is better. Allowing a switch between the two adds complexity. For big conversations FF lacks the button to reply to a specific poster so the viewer can thread, at least as an option. Much of the noise level in this conversation is due to people having to manually try to fake threading.
- Ed Millard
The threading vs. flat conversation is interesting to me - we've tried multiple times to put Disqus or Intense Debate on a film blog I write for, and every time we meet huge resistance to threading ESPECIALLY on long threads. People say they have a lot of difficulty finding the new comments when they aren't all at the top or bottom.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
Why can't there be a summary fly-out with timestamps based on response rate to single comments and a "last comment made" link as well as "thread count" links and lastly, "participants in this thread" link? Collapse everything else except the initial post. The initial interface looking like this one, should always be available for those who want to "sort through". You want the...
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- Melanie Reed
Jandy, you kind of have to let the user flip between threading and flat to solve the chronology problem. Slashdot has a popup menu at the top that lets you view in "Threaded, Nested, Flat, No Comments". The down side is the UI gets progressively more complex both to implement and use unless you are going to force everyone to lowest common denominator UI.
- Ed Millard
But Ed, that's what I have against the traditional "threaded" approach: all the fork like structure. It does get complicated real fast. What's needed is somewhere a "summary" for those jumping in late to "catch up" but also the "single comment" link to democratize the discussion. Threads have all the indentation problems of trying to follow that way IF I am picturing what you mean by thread.
- Melanie Reed
+1 Ed
- 'Like' robot (frɐnc)
My other observation is this: everyone creates a "story" about the ideas and information they are taking in and immediately starts associating connections in their mind creating a mental picture whether they realize it or not when they are perceiving that information. Our user interfaces don't yet lend themselves to that especially where it come to dialogue and forums. We've accepted a...
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- Melanie Reed
Here's why you don't need indented/tangential threading: FF discussions tend to be small enough to fit in the "RAM" in one's mind. It curtails many threads that might ramble; the exception (like Paul's thread here) comes when the power of the topic/zeitgeist and vibe of a live chat going strong overrides that usual point of decay. Predictablly, one or several commenters here will start a new thread or escalate it to a blog post and summarize their thoughts based on what transpired on this stream.
- Micah Wittman
Melanie, have you used Slashdot, they did forums earlier and better than anyone. The forum starts out flat, and then starts threading. Random community moderators start modding up the insightful posts, and burying the trolls, crap, etc. Once the moderation kicks in the "summary" is all the posts that were modded up to 5 which are shown expanded. All the lower moderated stuff is there but you have to clck to see. Slashdot would suck like YouTube comments if they hadn't solved the forum problem.
- Ed Millard
It's organic, not hierarchical. As other have stated, there is as much to learn from watching the process unfold as there is to gain from end result.
- Micah Wittman
Ed, no, I haven't used Slashdot but I'm willing to give it a try. I'm pretty adaptable. But when I see a problem and it becomes "the picture" for me, in this case a circle then I know its time for the leap out of the present "prison of one idea". ;)
- Melanie Reed
Micah, its true threads are bad for small friendly forums. Some of this discussion is about what happens when the forums on "celebrity" social expert's threads get so big they overflow readers brains and they turn in to *noise*. One noise problem is organization, the other is some post and some posters are better than others in the mind of the celeb and the reader.
- Ed Millard
Slashdot dealt with most of the forum problems ten years ago, they had to to survive the trolls. The problem is their UI needs to be complex to be flexible and keep everyone happy. Their audience is also mostly geek power user. When you get to social networks the other UI school is demanding the UI be dirt simple so the unwashed masses can cope, but dirt simple mean its inflexible and it ticks off nearly everyone, especially power users. Hard problem to solve... making everyone happy.
- Ed Millard
Ed, conferences have break-out groups. The same idea should be employed.
- Micah Wittman
Ed, yes, you offered a little explication for others of what happens when you lost the ability to categorize your"story" into a mental picture that is associated with previous "stories" you have stored in the brain. That end result is "noise". Some of us are better at doing that than others, that's true. But there come a point of over flow for all of us. What our UI needs to do is to amplify and assist in that "story" constructing process.
- Melanie Reed
Break out groups is a nice idea, but it seems a bit cumbersome. You need to make a new post, post a link here and get some critical mass from the first forum to move. If you do it five times you would splinter the first forum and lose critical mass, especially in a "real-time" forum where people will only watch one forum at a time. Chances are most people will cling to the first forum if its interesting.
- Ed Millard
Ed and Micah, what I hear both of you saying, and Robert as well, is that at some point in the "story" constructing process, the dialog from the forum needs to end in the narrative of a blog. Up till now, the blog component has been a random, unattached part of the discussion. AM I hearing that you think that in some way it should become part of the UI? So that the discussion gets...
more...
- Melanie Reed
Not sure I follow, blog is kind of a one voice, one direction thing, only way a forum morphs to blog is when once person splits off the forum to make a more in depth point and posts the blog link to the forum. I'm mostly just talking about the various methods for restoring order in a big forum, and improving signal to noise ratio. Most entail putting more options and more UI in and around the forum and making the UI more complex which many think is bad on a social network.
- Ed Millard
Ed, as I was writing this, it occurs to me that what I'm suggesting is what I may have just figured out (finally) that Google Wave is trying to get us to do. But if so, I beleive FF could actually do it better. the "noise" problem that was created by the various forms of SM, inside and outside of the platforms, was the inability to "connect the dots". We didn't have a framework for how...
more...
- Melanie Reed
One of the problems that we haven't solved is the usefulness of digression and random access of connective tissue in the "story" process. That's the wild card that often comes up as "noise"
- Melanie Reed
I can't speak for Robert. Some of his issue "seems" to be he only wants to see the Silicon Valley/SF movers and shakers in his feed talking about tech and social networks, and he doesn't much want anyone but that same group to be posting on forums under his auspices. Friend Feeds openness is bad for that. The same is true for all the Twitter celeberati. They don't want peons anywhere near their online presence to tarnish it.
- Ed Millard
Only way I can see to maintain FF openness for those who want it, and celeb broadcast only mode for the celebs who demand it, in one social network is you have to have an option when you make a post on your feed to control the forum methodology (i.e. broadcast only peons can only look on, panel mode where only my social elite are allowed to speak & peons can watch, private where only my circle can speak and see (FB mode), or completely OPEN(FF mode).
- Ed Millard
There also seems to be an issue where someone you follow, through the "like" process, can inject pictures of kittens, babies and man titteh in to your feed. Of course that is kind of the original point of social networks, seeing what your network sees. I think some just want hard core tech news and talk and twitter lists probably do allow an uber though somewhat lifeless feed like that.
- Ed Millard
Ed, well, that is the territory of the heart when it comes into contact with the machine. And oddly (or maybe not so oddly) there is a post on my feed that addresses that theme: http://friendfeed.com/faithx5... ;) Digression and Random access at work. lol And I find that refreshing. I'm always excited about how some new idea may be generated because I allowed what...
more...
- Melanie Reed
@Melanie: I fully believe in non-linear learning. The ability to take input from diverse thematic content and synthesize something ... to apply something from one world to the other. That's where I think we're heading. I think of it a little bit like a digital version of Burroughs' Cut Up technique: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...
- AJ Kohn
I can't believe I read the whole thing
- Michael Slattery
Such a simple and obvious solution: provide an optional *LIST* view for Friendfeed items. Open the comments only on items that look really interesting. Am I missing something obvious? Then Friendfeed could easily emulate Twitter on all essentials (and surpass it in many other areas).
- Sean McBride
Sean, I think the obvious thing you are missing is there are no FF developers any more so FF probably isn't getting anything it doesn't already have. And there are camps here that don't really like the alternatives that FB and Twitter offer which is why this is such a hot button issue. I wish there was one social network that had lists, open forums, walled gardens, and broadcast mode based on the wishes of the person running a feed so everyone could be happy in one network.
- Ed Millard
V-- :-(
pea ♥ fierce as a woozle, AJ Kohn and Brook White liked this
O, why is that, Glenn?. I didn't catch it and probably won't. TV broke. :)
- Melanie Reed
I found it predictable and boring; left halfway through.
- Glen Campbell, B.A.
I liked it!
- Stephen Mack
V --- for very very predictable. No show on regular TV is not predictable.
- CW™
Sure, it was a kittle predictable. But I love the art direction an cinematography of the show. And although some of the acting was iffy, overall I thought it was well done.
- Jason Huebel
from iPhone
Ah but could it of been done better if made by SyFy creators of BSG and such? More edgy? More scifi?
- CW™
I was unimpressed. C- right now. Plot = predictable. Acting = wooden. It better get better soon. In other news, FlashForward is actually pretty good. B+
- AJ Kohn
Working on some product ideas I'm very excited about.
Jérôme Flipo, Clare Dibble, Stephan Osmont and 9 other people liked this
"Working on some product ideas I'm not that excited about."
- Jim Norris
Working on some product ideas with Ana. Not really enjoying myself.
- Jim Norris
lol, jim.
- Cristo
Cristo++
- Ruchira S. Datta
@Jim: +42
- AJ Kohn
FRIENDFEED IS SO AWESOME!!!!
paniaguai, sofarsoShawn, Michele McGraw and 64 other people liked this
There, does that make everyone feel better?
- Robert Scoble
FU Robert...but we still love you...
- Bill Heslin
Your killing me man!
- Owen Greaves
FU too but I still love you.
- Robert Scoble
Ladies and Gentlemen, the REAL FF Manic Depressive, Robert Scoble!
- Internet's Tad
Dont'
- Bill Heslin
You must be back on your med's again Robert : )
- Owen Greaves
You talk out both sides of your mouth so much, I presume this is sarcasm.
- jcunwired
This means our yapping really got to him ;)
- Maxamad
Robert is coming in because he's for the Yankees...so thanx robert
- Bill Heslin
*channels Dvorak* I'm not buying it!
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
from iPod
Me neither...MVB
- Bill Heslin
I shant comment on another RS post...I loves my FF peeps...We rock
- Bill Heslin
MVB: seems that everyone here wants this, so this is what I'm going to post. I don't want to rain on anyone's parade.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I have no problem with you not liking FriendFeed as a service or not getting anything out of it anymore. You had valid points about forums. What bothered me was the language and the tone of your initial post and screenshot that singled out and attacked the people of FriendFeed. You don't have to like the service or find it interesting but there are more respectful ways to communicate that...ways that don't personally offend the rest of the users and cause them to get defensive and angry.
- joey
joey: you're right. I was wrong. But I'm not getting fed here anymore and I didn't communicate that well.
- Robert Scoble
Sorry Robert, ever read the story "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" ? Check it out.
- Maxamad
I guess it's like falling in love with a four-star Thai restaurant that slowly switches to some other kind of food.
- Robert Scoble
The worst part is that my "best of day" is dominated by people posting all the different reasons your post was wrong.
- Bruce Lewis
Mehmet: I've read it many times. So you're right. Fine. FriendFeed is awesome. Now what?
- Robert Scoble
Bruce: we're even thanks to that man-boob liking photo.
- Robert Scoble
Whew, now I can sleep well!
- Herb Hernandez
WoW! I just unsubscibed from Robert...MY feed just went way back to REAL people...
- Bill Heslin
Here we go again.... is this 1110?
- Ed Millard
Bill: exactly.
- Robert Scoble
Don't you all know what bait smells like by now?
- Josh Haley
Muah Robert!...hehheeh
- Bill Heslin
Yes Josh
- Bill Heslin
Anyway, what kind of tech stuff are you looking for?
- Bruce Lewis
Josh: nah, yesterday's posts were bait. This is just me saying hi.
- Robert Scoble
Bruce: I've already found it, you don't need to find it for me.
- Robert Scoble
I still like you, Robert. We've had good conversations. Just... Perhaps you could have handled it a little differently, is all. Best of luck in whatever is next and I'll see you around the net.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
from iPod
Mmmm....bait!
- Bruce Lewis
Bruce: I'm not going to fall for your bait.
- Robert Scoble
Bait?? Why can't you just leave us alone Bobbie?
- Bill Heslin
MVB: fun still ahead!
- Robert Scoble
Bill: you are welcome to block me. Then you'll be alone without me.
- Robert Scoble
I was just answering Josh. I'm not baiting anybody myself.
- Bruce Lewis
The food's the same here, you just made a serious mistake by stiffing the wait staff. Face it Robert, you're a fast food kind of guy.
- jcunwired
jcunwired: I enjoy fast food as much as anyone but I do try to temper it with veggies.
- Robert Scoble
Not that there's anything wrong with that. If you need tech "news" you don't want to hang out on a site that's exactly the same kind of awesome it was two months ago.
- Bruce Lewis
Oh good lord, a blanket apology/explanation is plenty sufficient. He doesn't need to come to each of our houses and prostrate himself before us and beg our humblest forgiveness. We need to learn more from that Baboon that Benson played in the Lion King.
- Matthew DeVries
Bruce: I'm not going to fall for your bait. FriendFeed is awesome!
- Robert Scoble
Why is Scoble trying to kill Friendfeed?
- Cliff Gerrish
Cliff: why would I try to kill something so awesome?
- Robert Scoble
My "more wrong" blog post was (in tone) bait. My comments here are real.
- Bruce Lewis
I swear Robert you like to toy with people because they are so predictable : )
- Owen Greaves
Why indeed?
- Cliff Gerrish
Because he has the delusion that he can.
- jcunwired
Is this what it is going to come to? People ripping each other apart until there is no one left alive when the lights are turned off?
- Mathew™ one of a kind
jcunwired: I couldn't "make" FriendFeed despite pissing off thousands of people over on Twitter by constantly talking it up. I guess everyone forgets that. Same over on my blog. And I've shown FF to thousands of people during speaking engagements. But, no, all that work didn't help make FriendFeed hyper popular so, no, I don't live under any delusion that I can, then, get anyone to leave. FriendFeed is awesome and nothing I say can change that.
- Robert Scoble
At the Boston FriendFeed meetup I was the only one who found Robert Scoble through FriendFeed. Everybody else found FriendFeed through Robert Scoble.
- Bruce Lewis
I found you through FriendFeed and I'm grateful for that!
- Robert Scoble
you could say that that it's a sad sack of going nowhere, now that the team was acquired and told Steve Gillmor like 8 times in the last Gang that a bunch of the best features here were too much for the 300 million nuffnuffs that use Facebook.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
if you wanted to say something about FF not being awesome, that is.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Marshall: oh, you were listening to the latest Gang. There was a LOT of news in that Gang and Steve and I were wondering if anyone would notice.
- Robert Scoble
it was hard to notice with the thick fog of PR bs. mostly seemed like bad news and non-news. would love to know what I missed :)
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
i don't mean to be un-understanding, FB is a huge org with hundreds of millionso f users, billions of $ at stake. i'm sure i'd speak cautiously too
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Marshall: yeah, if I were FriendFeed execs I would speak carefully as well. The transcript comes tomorrow, we'll dig through it and highlight anything really useful in the Gillmor Gang. There were a few things that clarified where they are going a bit.
- Robert Scoble
Transcript? FriendFeed execs? Did an interview happen with Bret, Jim, Paul, Sanjeev?
- Bruce Lewis
Bruce: we had Bret on last week.
- Robert Scoble
OK, well...welcome back, then Robert. http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- Josh Haley
That's great. Will there be a transcript?
- Bruce Lewis
Bruce: yes, Gillmor told me today it's coming "soon." Hopefully tomorrow.
- Robert Scoble
Josh: I won't be baited. FriendFeed is awesome. And now I'm off to play with my kids. Be back tomorrow for more awesomeness.
- Robert Scoble
Good night!
- Bruce Lewis
What does he mean by "awesome?"
- Cliff Gerrish
from iPhone
My work is done here, ooh wait, it isn't.
- Amit Morson
My favorite link on FF and it not being "hyperpopular", http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
- Ed Millard
ScobleGate
- Joe Silence is not dead
Somebody needs to post the man boob licking photo with Scoble's body and complete the circle. I'll start my stopwatch.
- Louis Gray
LOL Louis!!!
- jcunwired
It would be too easy.
- Josh Haley
no target of opportunity is beneath me.
- Joe Silence is not dead
Why?
- AJ Kohn
Aascoble, you makin me crazy I tell you, you crazy kid!
- Eric @ CS Techcast
from iPhone
See, you know Robert's being facetious when his contribution doesn't end with: "And here's why: 1 ..."
- AJ Kohn
ROBERT. LOL.
- Mona Nomura
AJ: I don't have to do those tricks anymore. Look at all the comments!
- Robert Scoble
Never satisfied. Tell me how much you love FF every waking hour.
- Jason Hill
And, anyway, I understand everyone here knows at least 60 reasons why FriendFeed is awesome, no need to iterate through that list again.
- Robert Scoble
@Robert: I miss it though! You're welcome any time. In other news, the world of the Internet is a fascinating place. I wouldn't be anywhere else.
- AJ Kohn
Always here. Like every time I long-on. Robert is infinitely connected. Is it happiness? ... a disease? ... or both?? :)
- Charlie Anzman
Hehe - Keep it comin' big guy ....
- Charlie Anzman
Now what's Scoble up to? You gotta watch this dude he's pure trouble. The kind I like :)
- Jeunelle Foster
Here is my entry in Louis's contest, is there a prize, if so did I win? http://friendfeed.com/edmilla...
- Ed Millard
OH GAHD! *gouges out own eyes*
- Joe Silence is not dead
So confused... but don't care anymore. Can't we just go back to how it was before? Everyone posts/likes/doesn't do whatever they want.
- Jan Ole Peek
Louis, Robert probably already has a real picture like that somewhere.
- Jesse Stay
Josh, I want the transcript to your video
- Jesse Stay
I enjoy friendfeed sooo much!! I hope it doesn't go anywhere but gets optimized! Great site to make great connections and meet a bunch of awesome people!
- John Tastad
hahahahaha
- ffcode
You are over here checking it out, right? It must be awesome then. ;) Enjoy those kids!
- Martha
Don't go away mad, just go away
- Tendonitis' Bitch
Yeah! Everyone is feeling better now!
- Red Label
OMFG. Really?
- ruh öküzü
no
- Alfred C. Ingram
UGHH, YEAH EVERYBODY HAPPY NOW ~ well perhaps, if it had a shred of sincerity
- sofarsoShawn
.@centernetworks if you look at @TheEllenShow's latest "follows", the entire Twitter team + social media/tech dorks are there. #lists
AJ Kohn, Mike Fruchter and michael sean wright liked this
Of note, whoever is running Ellen's account followed the entire Twitter team, and they must have found a social media/tech news/bloggers list, because a ton of folks from FriendFeed and peers are on there. Yes... Ellen is following me. Yay.
- Louis Gray
figured they followed me for the same reason.
- michael sean wright
i am taking the night off to celebrate this momentus occasion - i would make a blog post about it if i was a twitter blogger.
- Allen Stern
She is following me too. I thought it was a joke at first.
- Mike Fruchter
Yup, followed me today too.
- AJ Kohn
Twitter Lists are Competitive | The Real Problem with Lists - http://www.blindfiveyearold.com/twitter...
Brian Krueger - LabSpaces, Mike Chelen, Mike Fruchter and 3 other people liked this
"Instead of using lists to help users manage the stream of data, they’ve turned them into a competition."
- AJ Kohn
from Bookmarklet
I've seen people asking to be put on lists of other people. If my followers did that to me, I'd block them on principal alone.
- Anika
@Anika: Yup, that's how it's going to start. People asking to be put on lists. Trading membership on lists. Accounts set up specifically to get you on a list or lists. It's just ... foolish.
- AJ Kohn
And you make a great point as far as being on one list, yet pushing tweets on a different subject. For some people that may be a turnoff, but I'm not going to stop being me because of that.
- Anika
I agree with you. Who cares what list you're on? People are just going nuts over the new and shiny toy.
- Trish R
value is in the eye of the beholder, who is free draw whatever conclusions they like from published figures
- Mike Chelen
Social media is the new...
Jason Huebel, mariamaqdalena, Loc and AJ Kohn liked this
electric billboard.
- Cristo
Tide.
- Cristo
interstate highway.
- Cristo
hula hoop.
- Cristo
Isn't it just 'Social media is the new'
- AJ Kohn
pet rock.
- Cristo
God.
- Cristo
sandbox for Robert Scoble.
- Cristo
backyard picket fence.
- Cristo
soft and easy listening music.
- Cristo
talking to yourself on the street.
- Cristo
broadcasting / distribution network
- Loc
water cooler
- Stephen Mack
from iPhone
salad dressing.
- Cristo
Kool Kids Klub
- Maxamad
Jump to Conclusions Mat.
- Jason Huebel
"look at me I'm somebody!" spotlight.
- jcunwired
Hollywood restaurant.
- Jeremy
The chat room/forum problem (& an apology to @Technosailor) - http://scobleizer.com/2009...
Paolo Valdemarin, Mona Nomura, Susan Beebe and 14 other people liked this
since posts that appear in a list are determined by the owner, when another user reads the list, there is no direct control of the content. it has been recommended by another trusted user, and the same is true for posts shown in friendfeed using friend-of-a-friend
- Mike Chelen
Mike Taylor's already got a good reasoned post up in response http://friendfeed.com/codebea...
- Chris Heath
Chris: and I answered Mike Taylor in his comments there. Good stuff.
- Robert Scoble
IRC remains the number one text-only community tool for live collaboration IMO. It has all the features except attachments - and that's a good thing.
- randulo
The FOAF inaccuracy in this post is glaring.
- Bruce Lewis
This exactly mirrors real life. The degree to which anything is good is the degree to which people work for it. When the trolls etc inevitably come to feed it's your choice: stay and work or leave and cry. If people stay and work then a community can thrive. Exactly as in real life. I've seen this many many times. As in real life what people usually do is move on to once again live off low hanging fruit when the best crops take time.
- Todd Hoff
"That’s true, but the more conversations I got involved in the less I found I was learning" - How much do you learn from your family? And a long list of links is equivalent to memorizing all the names of dead presidents, it's anything but learning. What you see is Mike Lee hurting and exploding out. Next he'll be reaching out and Twitter won't be there.
- Todd Hoff
Todd: you forget my brother is THE famous ALEX SCOBLE! I learn a lot from my family. Some here, some in private. And you must have missed the hundreds of replies that Mike got. Some things, by the way, are best done over whisky at a bar not online.
- Robert Scoble
I think you missed the point about family Robert. The purpose of any group is not always for you to learn. There are many other aspects that need not be consigned to a whisky bar.
- Todd Hoff
@Robert - some people don't have the option to do things over whiskey at a bar, but they can interact online. And some tools are better suited to that kind of interaction than others. I can think of one that starts with an F and doesn't end in an K. A lot of people look to make strong connections with others that they simply don't have access to in person.
- Her Lindsay-ness
Posted a comment on the blog. Long story short, the DATA (activity and content) has changed but you haven't changed your filters to help transform that data into information. The problem isn't FriendFeed it's the fact that you've calcified and haven't kept up with your filters. Full blog comment here: http://scobleizer.com/2009...
- AJ Kohn
My long-winded response and plea: http://friendfeed.com/bluecoc...
- Her Lindsay-ness
It appears Robert believes that he will be able to influence others through the curating of Twitter lists. In my opinion the type of people who cannot create and filter their own community are not worth influencing. I think the list feature is useful but so far I have no desire to subscribe to anyone else's Twitter lists.
- scott anderson
scott: you can believe that all you want. Doesn't make you right. http://listorious.com is doing awesome.
- Robert Scoble
"you can believe that all you want. Doesn't make you right" A statement that can apply to many people on several different subjects. Perhaps it's come to a point, Robert, where it's best for you to agree to disagree regarding the data, fate, and demise of FriendFeed. Because you've chosen to move on to the next shiny thing doesn't mean that everyone else has to do the same.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
True
- Robert Scoble
What Tina said + How is listorious any better than the SUL? It seems to me like a circle-jerk of the perpetual group of A-List bloggers reinventing themselves as curators in a social capital land grab. I could be wrong tho'.
- scott anderson
scott: almost none of the Listorius lists are done by A-list bloggers. But, thanks for playing. 6.5 million lists have been created in a weekend. You think those were created by only A-lsters? Dream on!
- Robert Scoble
And what's the difference between the SUL? Well, for one, there's only ONE SUL and there's 6.5 million lists already with more every minute. The SUL is offered in Twitter's startup UI. Lists are not. The SUL gifts its members millions of followers every year. So far I've gotten a slight bump from lists, but not nearly as big as being on the SUL.
- Robert Scoble
I like the list feature. I find it useful for organizing the people I follow. I just don't have any interest in subscribing to other people's lists. I was comparing listorious with SUL, not the list feature with SUL.
- scott anderson
Listorious presents thousands (soon to be millions) of lists. The SUL only presents one. It's funny you can't see the difference between that.
- Robert Scoble
Looking at the front page it *appears* that Tim O'Reilly, a tech publisher, is in charge of curating tech news. You don't see a problem with that??
- scott anderson
I don't understand why you'd want to follow somebody else's lists. Wouldn't that just clutter up your view with a bunch of stuff you don't control? Or does it keep those lists separate, like your own lists are separate from your follows?
- Otto
Be sure to read Brandon Mendelson's (a former SUL member) post on Lists here: http://www.soapboxincluded.com/2009...
- Jesse Stay
randulo: no platforms can match irc for low-latency communication besides im protocols such as xmpp ... and friendfeed!
- Mike Chelen
Robert: just stand by for the SLL (suggested list list)
- Mike Chelen
Otto: there is complete control in that you may choose to follow or unfollow the list at any time, with additional granularity offered through following individual accounts
- Mike Chelen
Robert I reread your post again and several things jumped out: 1) "Compare that feed to your average Facebook feed and you’ll see it in stark black and white: your Facebook feed is “fun” but isn’t teaching you much." Really? Well, you must be using Facebook differently than I do. I somehow have managed to collect the pages and the friends and the groups I enjoy and its providing me with...
more...
- Melanie Reed
I want to add that I respect the job you provide to the online community, the observations you make. You are gifted in this area. But I see that more as a guidance value rather than as counselor and decision maker for users. Those jobs seem more important for the production side of social media rather than its use.
- Melanie Reed
11 Gorgeously Ironic Misspellings In Protest Signs - http://www.11points.com/News-Po...
Mona Nomura liked this
"So here are 11 misspelled protest signs. In each case, the misspelling doesn't just belie the sign's message... it shatters it."
- AJ Kohn
from Bookmarklet
Where has my FriendFeed gone? The picture says it all. By the way, this is the "best of day" right now. Sad.
paniaguai, Ankush Narula, Luca Sofri and 66 other people liked this
Compare these two. FriendFeed has great pictures, but content that is, well, not interesting. Twitter, on right, has 6,000x better content but doesn't look as nice due to no pictures. Will Brizzly come to rescue?
- Robert Scoble
I hope somebody comes up with a fabulous client to maximize content and serve up more media
- Susan Beebe
And people wonder why I don't come here much anymore. Sigh.
- Robert Scoble
FriendFeed used to be very heavy in tech discussions. Now it's rare I see a tech discussion on the "best of day" feed.
- Robert Scoble
The cap on the left is infinitely preferable to the right. I can't tell you how glad I am not to be inundated with tech stuff all day long. One man's trash...
- Jim Hearts FF
Time to adjust your subscriptions.
- Bruce Lewis
try PowerTwitter ...also, which service has 6000x more users? doesn't that affect content choices?
- .LAG liked that
I keep looking for the comments link on Brizzly.
- Tom Landini
PowerTwitter is a great add to the twitter website (Firefox add-on)
- Susan Beebe
There's more to talk about than just "tech", seriously...
- Rob H.
Robert - Do you have any general news, world news Twitter lists/groups? I tried scrolling through you lists, but they all seem pretty tech-slanted. If Twitter is to replace Friendfeed and Google Reader, then we need to be able to get real news and information out of the thing.
- Matthew DeVries
The left is a best of day from your 28000 subscriptions. The right is a heavily curated list focused on something you are interested in. Try "best of" on a curated list (there is a link at the bottom of every list feed to best of for that feed).
- Benjamin Golub
agree totally with you Scoble, Bruce: adjusting wouldn't make a difference now
- ffcode
Ben - great advise!
- Susan Beebe
I know twitter is occupied with infrastructure and list improvements, but you would think they could be building brizzly-esque features pretty easily.
- Sean Montgomery
Sean - right. Twitter has to stablize their platform, then focus on UIX
- Susan Beebe
Matthew: I'm a geek. Other people are doing news lists. I might start one, though. You are the second person to ask for one.
- Robert Scoble
and there aren't tech discussions here one of the prime reasons are Scoble left and he is usually followed by around 10k folks everywhere, and his predictions affect all, weak or strong minded
- ffcode
I find it a fascinating observation: Twitter is better than FriendFeed because there's more tech discussions in my feed. Is that the criteria you use for judging other social media sites? Because, IMHO, social media is about connecting people, not about tech discussions.
- Glen Campbell, B.A.
ffcode: sorry, I'm tracking the geek participation here and sorry, the really geeky stuff has definitely gone down.
- Robert Scoble
always wondered how your feed would look like but it is clear you are no different ;)
- ffcode
Robert - I come to you because you're the best list builder and analyzer of signal to noise.
- Matthew DeVries
Glen: sorry, where the geeks go generally the general public follows. Generally. And, anyway, compare this stuff to Facebook. Even there it's a loser, sorry. I watch my wife's feed all the time and compare it to FriendFeed and FriendFeed loses. She said "ew" when she saw my page here.
- Robert Scoble
only 2 likes on a celebrity picture(demi moore)? I guess people really did run away!
- PJ Edwards
Glen: by the way, I can make such a screen shot for a bunch of different genre's, not just tech. Twitter has far more diversity and has far more flow of all kinds. http://listorious.com 's huge first weekend demonstrates that.
- Robert Scoble
Jim: if you don't want just tech, check out http://listorious.com -- what list would you like? In one weekend Twitter got more diversity thanks to lists than FriendFeed did in 18 months. And no "ew" pictures.
- Robert Scoble
You still have to come here. It's mandatory
- Charlie Anzman
sad one of the best place is going down like this and it is going the way every other social network is "just for fun"....:(
- ffcode
Charlie: I do, but now you know why I don't show off FriendFeed at conferences anymore.
- Robert Scoble
FriendFeed's still here. Unfortunately when Scoble, FriendFeed's top user goes, so go the users.
- Jesse Stay
number of places on the twitter display where you could see an inline discussion: zero.
- SuezanneC Baskerville
I follow Scoble, but I'm not going anywhere, Jesse.
- Jim Hearts FF
Either that, or this just means FriendFeed has gone mainstream, and is no longer just tech users any more ;-)
- Jesse Stay
Jesse - Robert left Twitter for quite a while (well, not left, but just had it parroting his FF) and it didn't seem to hurt Twitter any. Robert can't make or break a service all by himself.
- Matthew DeVries
I guess I just don't get it. My Facebook connects me with friends I haven't seen in years and relatives I contact rarely. With Facebook, I can keep in touch far better than I ever have in my life. I learn about my cousin in the ICU with pneumonia, and my good friend in Indiana who just had a grandson. The whole format is not compatible with tech discussions; the length restrictions...
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- Glen Campbell, B.A.
Code junkies best of week: http://friendfeed.com/code-ju...
- Bruce Lewis
@Cristo: +3000. @Robert: Change your subscriptions. You just haven't curated your worldview here as much lately. Things change, so must your prism.
- AJ Kohn
as usual, Robert's death of FF posts shoot up the charts. get it?
- Steve Gillmor
Matthew, see my second comment. I think some of it is that FriendFeed's userbase has changed as well. It's not the tech early adopters any more. I expect with Facebook's acquisition it will become more so that case.
- Jesse Stay
My point being this comparison doesn't mean much
- Jesse Stay
What is "geek" to you Robert? Because I've been seeing plenty of "geek" posts in the subscriptions and rooms I follow here on FriendFeed.
- Maxamad
Mehmet: geek is someone talking about technology or talking about building something or excited about using such. Do you see any geek in the friendfeed screen shot? I don't.
- Robert Scoble
Agree with Jesse here.
- Mahendra (SkepticGeek)
Bruce: is that the best example you got? All those items have no discussion!
- Robert Scoble
And like Tom's comment [keep looking for comments link on Brizzly] LOL!
- Mahendra (SkepticGeek)
o.O Louis is pretty geeky. His kids already have Macbooks.
- Matthew DeVries
The most active discussions I've seen on FriendFeed lately are only when someone proclaims or laments its decline. Sad but true.
- Mahendra (SkepticGeek)
Or when Jason holds a live chat.
- Mahendra (SkepticGeek)
Robert, twitter=no conversation. I'll deal with the 'ew' pictures by simply using the 'hide' button, that's why it's there. You go your way, I'll go mine. It's all good.
- Jim Hearts FF
do anybody no why Scoble can't just leave us alone. Friendfeed is dying according to him, no need to make it a self fulfilling prophecy. The more you "high profile" users criticize FF the faster folks will leave it.
- Tendonitis' Bitch
Coding geeks communicate best with code. Neither twitter nor FriendFeed let you indent. So there's going to be more sharing and less conversation for coders.
- Bruce Lewis
Robert ,the best of the day are comments and likes on a post ,not content. all the contents from Twitter,blogs,Rss etc are here and its better to get them here or in public groups or in private , I am not sure that on Twitter ppl are acting ,they are just reading same as here
- Johni Fisher
agree with Steve Gillmor, users are here but they are doing things way different now than they used to when Scoble was around
- ffcode
agree more than 100% that "those" tech talks are just gone
- ffcode
You're comparing a hand crafted twitter list to friendfeed's user-generated best-of-day?
- Andy Bakun
Gunny, give the guy a break. He feels forced to be on twitter and misses the conversations on FriendFeed. Did you look at the right-hand picture from twitter? No conversation happening there at all. Zero. I can't imagine hanging out there all day.
- Bruce Lewis
I skip all the tech anyway. Who says it's "better"?
- m9m, Crone of FriendFeed
Cristo: try seeing feed around those times when there when acquisition talks
- ffcode
Why can't there be a friendly friend feed and a tech friend feed? Is there no other use for the internet than to talk about the internet?
- m9m, Crone of FriendFeed
Tech and coding news is primarily what I look for in FriendFeed, and I find it. Conversation happens, as well as users bumping things up with likes. Subscriptions (friends and rooms) help filter tech content that I want to see. A like is sometimes as good as a comment.
- Maxamad
and Andy: you are yourself stating what Scoble has been saying all the way twitter is place where you can get your taste now not here anymore
- ffcode
Robert- regarding your early early comment- I find it refreshing that FF isn't about tech
- anna sauce
+anna, +Glen, and even +cristo
- Kamilah Gill
Does Plurk get this much attention about its inevitable death? Now there's a service that could really use the wake-up call.
- Mark Trapp
Robert never got infatuated with Plurk, Mark.
- Maxamad
Robert most of the change is in the place that you decided to open a subject and to post ,I remember 3 months ago your posts here were with tooons of comments and interest and from the day that you are posting your Twitter FAV here, there is not much action ,just think on that ,I like to read your Twitter FAV but I would better have them in a group and get yr posts like in the past
- Johni Fisher
Yeah, you're pretty geeky there when you have to search how to make screenshots
- KapitanObvious
agree Johni
- ffcode
thx ff
- Johni Fisher
To be honest, any social network with content governed by who you're subscribed to, and having image media in a feed is going to come up with something you don't like. This is because no one is on topic all the time, especially on Twitter. If you want sanitized feeds from *only* tech experts, geeks and what have you, these sort of services aren't going to cut it for you....
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- Mo Kargas
I sure like the interaction here, comments, community...this post shot over to Twitter, but there is nothing going on there about it.
- Eric Matas
@Eric Yes exactly, to me it looks like a glorified RSS stream from different sources, fundamentally a list of content and that's it. The topics Robert is after may not be present on FF, but the conversation is far more intuitive.
- Mo Kargas
"glorified RSS stream"...pretty much sums it up.
- Maxamad
Hey GUISE, we're forgetting that the list on the right will fail-whale often as twitter never seems to remember how to run their servers. As to the content on the left not being interesting, well...at least I know it's real people who aren't trying to get me to buy into some new brand or some interchangeable tech company that will just be bought by facebook one day and disappear. :)
- Jon, the Beartato of FF
I just can't wait for the day that Scoble ditches Twitter for the junk it is. Should give me a good laugh.
- Maxamad
Twitter has no "ew" pictures because it has no pictures. You can use the fftogo option that turns off media if you want no pictures.
- Bruce Lewis
For conversations, friendfeed wins. For tons of blabbers and links, twitter wins. But agreed, activity has gone down heavily on friendfeed. Twitter mania has caught everyone.
- Amit
Interesting tech discussions from http://friendfeed.com/paul... are "Think big. Code small" and the ooc one.
- Bruce Lewis
One anecdote deserves another. I've posted on FF regularly for 1.5 years. I comment frequently on others' tech posts, but most of my own posts are not strictly tech-angled. This week I asked "FriendFeeders : NEED ADVISE: Best all-around value Netbook today - which one?" and it got 16 LIKES and 20 COMMENTS. The last time one of my posts hit/surpassed that threshold was early August http://friendfeed.com/search...
- Micah Wittman
One thing I noticed is no conversations. Just straight links to other sites. Kind of boring.
- Todd Hoff
BTW is it possible to stop getting the twitter updates from others on Friendfeed? Slowly I am seeing my friendfeed aggregating only the twitter updates.
- Amit
Yeah, you can Amit. Just click "hide" on a tweet you see in FF, and then choose to "hide other items like this one"...and go from there.
- Maxamad
Robert is just being Robert, always stirring things up! LOL, I really do ♥ you for it though.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Wait, you were all like ' I LOVE FF ' this summer. Singing your praises on the TWiT network and all that jazz. You're even more of a fair weather fan than Minnesotans with our sports teams.
- Clark Baumgartner 蔵明 馬武刀
No hatin' on the Vikings here, they try hard :p
- Maxamad
Twins? Timberwolves? Wilds? Take your pick if the Vikings don't do it for yeh.
- Clark Baumgartner 蔵明 馬武刀
You know what makes me laugh... People who use FriendFeed in other languages probably don't see this or any of the stuff Robert is interested in...
- Johnny Worthington
from iPhone
+Johnny W.
- Kamilah Gill
BTW... Heaven forbid we actually have fun on a Sunday... Your lawn's that way
- Johnny Worthington
from iPhone
You're really going to show me Wall Street Journal on your Twitter feed and compare that to Friendfeed's personal interaction? You know better, Robert.
- Eric @ CS Techcast
from iPhone
KapitanObvious++ for the burn.
- Andrew C
One of the nice things about Friendfeed is the way you can hide a post like this and not see it ever again. It would be nice to have a way to filter posts from specific people if they contained certain words such as twitter, lists, dead, or friendfeed. :)
- SuezanneC Baskerville
Robert GFY dude, seriously.
- LANjackal
""glorified RSS stream" - yeah, except my RSS feeds have been culled down to sources that add their own insightful commentary so it's not an endless stream of retweets of _all the same damn links repeated over and over_. That Twitter screenshot looks really information-light once the repeats are filtered out...
- Andrew C
FRIEND Feed.
- Internet's Tad
And this coming from a man who posted this online: http://valleywag.com/assets... :P
- Jan Ole Peek
The Friendfeed screenshot shows 222 total interactions in the first three entries. The twitter one shows 14 (and I'm counting the one at the bottom that is cut off). Oh wait, those aren't interactions, those are links to other places.
- Andy Bakun
I think Robert is just confusing the point of the site. The name is FRIEND Feed, not interesting feed, useful feed, news feed, etc. This is where I hang out with my friends.
- Internet's Tad
Robert, you're cool and everything, but sometimes the things you post make me think of you as an arrogant asshole. The beauty in friendfeed is that there are so many different flavors to sample from. There are plenty of sites to go to that are tech heavy if that is what you are looking for. Why bother here if it's not what you want? Move on and shut the fuck up about it. Jesus.
- DO ANYBODY NO MONIQUE
Amen.
- Internet's Tad
For someone who doesn't like Friendfeed or thinks Friendfeed doesn't offer as much value as twitter, he sure does post here a lot.
- Andy Bakun
This is exactly the kind of post I don't want in my feed. Adjusting my subscriptions now. Sorry Robert, but I gotta block you on Friendfeed. See you on Twitter.
- Rodfather
Robert. You are stating the obvious: of course friendfeed is going to decline: there is no more engineering or innovation power behind it! The key question is: "is a friendfeed++ going to reborn as part of facebook and have a much more profound impact?". The jury is still out but knowing the quality of the team I would not bet against it.
- Edwin Khodabakchian
I think this post is very rude to the posters in your screenshot, especially the second two. They are sharing themselves and their lives with us. If that doesn't interest you, unsubscribe or hide but to call them out and mock them as 'sad' is, well, sad. FriendFeed is full of people that I enjoy discussing all kinds of topics with, including technology, but they are more than just early...
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- joey
Thank you Joey. I find the screen shot to be particularly offensive considering the tenor of the post. Stop being a jerk Robert.
- DO ANYBODY NO MONIQUE
Holden: I have removed my Twitter favorites from FriendFeed because of your post and my Twitter account too.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Scoble, you need to clean your Twitter DM's like stat.
-
@Robert - Just because FriendFeed isn't 90% tech and personal branding posts doesn't mean it doesn't have value. You used to be such a big proponent of lists here and molding your subscriptions so they were full of info but not noise... now that you've neglected your pruning efforts and gone over to Twitter then your feed is full of more noise (to you) than info. It's not FriendFeed's...
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- Her Lindsay-ness
Her Lindsay-ness: sorry, so many geeks have left and there are just more interesting information (FOR ME), more interesting conversations (FOR ME), and I'm learning a lot more over on Twitter (ABOUT WHAT I WANT TO LEARN). FriendFeed HAS changed and that's OK! For you. Not for me. And, sorry, I looked at rejiggering my accounts here, but the info just isn't coming here and Twitter is...
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- Robert Scoble
Then go away. What the fuck. Why keep coming back here to make posts about how horrible it is. It just makes you look like more of an asshole than you intend to be I'm sure. Seriously. If you think there is no value in it, then it's kinda counter-productive to keep posting here, right? You act like the guy that graduated high school but keeps coming back hanging out at lunch and during pep rallies. It's a little bit creepy. What is it that you hope to gain by that?
- DO ANYBODY NO MONIQUE
I agree with Gunny. YOU caused the mass exedus from Friend Feed Robert, by announcing its demise. Let's see what would happen if instead of moaning about its lack of techy feeds, you began promoting it instead. Look on it as an FF experiment.
- Sandra Large
I like reading your stuff Rob but yeah --- if you're only going to come here to diss FF, perhaps you should just exit FF completely. Also, it's a FACT that Twitter is inferior to FriendFeed based on communication alone because look...here I am, discussing this topic and others can follow along w/o having to search through random comments and pages [they can even comment easily also! *gasp*!]. FF probably will die eventually, but Twitter was freakin' stillborn. Just a glorified RSS service...
- Scott Carmichael
Its all becoming a Robert Scoble 'self fullfilling prophecy' lately on here. You can't have a conversation on Twitter like this, twitter is a newsreel of headline news, that's all its good for, Friend Feed is as its name implies, a feed for friends to discuss anything under the sun, and not just about technical stuff.
- Sandra Large
I don't agree that a person who's become dissatisfied with a service should leave. I've often heard change should come from within. With that said, I'm not sure Robert is pushing for positive change. Can it occur? With Zuckerberg calling the shots, maybe not. Maybe he owns every idea that the FFounders will ever have for the next few yrs, keeping those changes for Zuck's baby. Maybe FF will improve, & maybe the techies who were drowned out on Twitter will find they can be seen & heard here. Who knows?
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
My post is up: http://scobleizer.com/2009...
- Robert Scoble
Gone mainstream?
- Amit Morson
it gone mainstream alright
- Fajar Nurdiansyah
You can't blame Robert for the fact that the FF guys sold out AND left the ship more or less rudderless. If they had bothered to figure out even a tiny bit of a PR strategy around the take-over, then things might not have gone downhill so fast, or at all. And, yes, you can filter out all of the emo stuff (nothing wrong with it BTW, but that can be had from your IRL friends on Facebook)...
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- Alex Schleber
Robert: accepting the accuracy of observations about the amount of interesting conversations from your perspective, there still remains a question regarding what could be the cause? while one theory may be a decline in friendfeed activity, another possibility is the decline in your own activity. what evidence can support one hypothesis over the other?
- Mike Chelen
methinks a service can go on without an ego? personally i pop back here every now and again for the occasional conversation. i'd prefer more intelligent discussions on here, not just tech related, maybe i'm not following enough people? eh.
- Terry O'Fee
+1,000 joey. "emo stuff" that can be "found on Facebook"? LOTS of arrogance on display here from several directions. Alex, I know that you're tempering your statement by saying that there's nothing wrong with "emo stuff", but that's still awfully dismissive. FF is more like a number of simple blogs because the whole world can access the posts. FB is a walled garden, and tends to be way more dumbed-down (except for when I look at the FF people I'm subscribed to in FB).
- Kamilah Gill
Hey, guys? Don't feed the troll.
- Akiva Moskovitz
from BuddyFeed
now you tell us.
- Jim Hearts FF
Friendfeed never gone..!
- ★ Soner Gönül
Congratulations, you score high on the douche-o-meter!
- Mark Wilson
Well if FriendFeed has nothing else going for it, I can at least read a deep exchange of ideas here as to why it's toast. Perhaps thats why I'm sticking. Btw, slightly off topic, but am I the only one finding Twitter list creation a complete chore compared to doing the same on FriendFeed?
- David Hall
I don't see the problem. My pecs dominate your feed. Who can complain about that?
- Rahsheen ™, Coach of FF
LOL @Rasheen™
- Glen Campbell, B.A.
Rahsheen, it's ok to let the one's own fun part of life intersect one's social media sphere http://friendfeed.com/tad... , but not when it's someone else and it can be used in the wrong context to misappropriate a point.
- Micah Wittman
It amazes me how people will continue to use a service just to complain about it. Just STFU and GTFO.
- Steve Lowe
Micah, I don't follow what you're saying...
- Kamilah Gill
Robert - Just make Twitter fix the 140 character limit thing already!
- Matthew DeVries
then it would be a blog or what a tumble log?
- ffcode
strange people resist so much even when they know this is it
- ffcode
Robert, setting aside your point, your methodology here is insulting. Why? My response is here: http://friendfeed.com/zeigen...
- Stephen Mack
Kamilah, fair point. I'll explain without sarcasm. Robert's shower photo was a bit of fun that is fine and doesn't represent the whole of his on- or off-line contribution. Andy's photoshopped photo of Rahsheen doesn't represent the whole of Andy's contribution (which is very much technical, btw) or by extension the community's many contributions through the friendfeed medium. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
- Micah Wittman
friend feed is totally awesome!
- Bishal Adhikary
great one man...
- Bishal Adhikary
COMMENT 1) "There's a lot more than me here. http://friendfeed.com/ninjamo.... shows lots of things that are getting engagement. - Robert Scoble" http://friendfeed.com/ninjamo... ... COMMENT 2) "You are not following the right people. This is always the problem if FriendFeed isn't working for you. - Rahsheen ™, Coach of FF" http://friendfeed.com/ninjamo...
- Micah Wittman
I just looked, and http://friendfeed.com/ninjamo... still is getting a lot of engagement and there's is stuff to learn there.
- Micah Wittman
Robert, I am considered a "geek" by a number of people, but I don't need or want to talk about technology 24/7. I have other interests and I like to see where they connect. I want to see coalescence. I can't get disparate connections always watching or listening to the same track. Even Richard Feynman believed that...as do many others in other "geek" fields. When I was little I happened...
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- Melanie Reed
Robert, are you reading the tech related groups? If you read Best of you are going to get all sorts of stuff as you know. I have lists and saved searches for specific topics and browse them for the likes of tech. Best of it not the best place for tech only (well any single topic).
- Kol Tregaskes
I've come to the conclusion that all of Robert's posts must be read with one fact kept in mind. Even when he doesn't say it, his posts are based on the assumption that many/most people want and like what he wants.
- Eoghann Irving
Robert, why do you constantly feel the need to shake the death rattle? We are well aware that FF is dying and even more aware that you see it coming. If you really did care about the service you would try to reverse the trend instead of speeding it up.
- Jason Williams
from iPhone
Robert I joined FF when I saw you singing praises of it on Twitter and have been loving it ever since, you seem to have a lot of interesting stuff to say, and a lot of people follow you. But, you seriously need to stop coming to FriendFeed and doing everything in your considerable power to kill it, and then complain because you are successful in doing that. Twitter is for people who like shouting through megaphones in a crowd of people shouting through megaphones, FF is for people who like conversations.
- Ed Millard
@edmillard ..said the man who only imports one thing into FF, his Twitter account.. seriously though. Scoble can't kill FF because it's already dead, it just doesn't know it yet. And yes, I am still using it for a bit because it makes such a handy searchable archiving/surfacing tool, and for some aspects of the community. But the reality is that FF founder's sold out b/c they were lacking confidence that they could change FF sufficiently/quickly enough to sustain any real growth.
- Alex Schleber
So FriendFeed founders gave up and sold out to Zuckerberg more or less for the liquidation value, i.e. for their IP and continued highly-skilled/paid labor for FB. It's that simple. Thinking about it any other way is a fantasy. 5 Stages of Grief... And yes, it pains me to say it. Had high hopes for this platform. I wish they would have found a way to evolve FF where it would have continued to grow, I don't think they were very far off. It's like the gold-miners who gave up 10 ft from the mother lode.
- Alex Schleber
Alex you are mistaken, most of my recent posts are from FF and sometimes cross posted to Twitter if they are short and not FF specific. I didn't know the FF etiquette that twitter posts are shunned when I started. Most of my limited time here is spent in comments anyway, since I prefer the conversations to the megaphone.
- Ed Millard
@Ed "Twitter is for people who like shouting through megaphones in a crowd of people shouting through megaphones, FF is for people who like conversations." You basically summed up my blog post about this whole thing (http://friendfeed.com/bluecoc...)...
- Her Lindsay-ness
Lindsey, same concept, yours was thorough, mine was short. I think part of being a geek is we opt for the superior tech, not the popular tech. FB and Twitter are popular but inferior for conversation. I had no interest in them until I found FF recently. Its a problem we geeks are letting Zuckerberg kill the superior tech here with his checkbook. I'm thinking we should launch an open friend feed like directeur is talking about, free of business conflicts. It is the geek thing to do but it would be hard.
- Ed Millard
One bad day does not mean it is bad for the whole year :)
- ashish
don't you ever get tired of hitting refresh every other minute?
- Giancarlo Caparo
LOL, let's see you sort though hundreds of reply of Twitter, shoot a video of that...
- Robert Higgins
*yawns*
- T. Brent, technopeasant
Sadly, FF has largely become a photo sharing, jokes and food pics sharing site - tech community is gone.
- Susan Beebe
Yes, Twitter really has raised the bar in that arena.
- Glen Campbell, B.A.
Glen LOL
- Susan Beebe
ZING! I shared a lame joke a few minutes ago, Susan! http://ff.im/aTQG6 I don't feel really bad about it. That's true, many people know me as a developer, but I'm not only that. I'm a jazz/anime/languages... LOVER :)
- directeur
If only someone would have told Robert that his feed is his own creation and if he is unhappy there is only one place to look fir the reason. Oh, wait...
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
from iPod
seriously, talk about mis-matched comparisons. This general list is less focused than that built-for-a-purpose list? Well, no offense, but no shit, Sherlock.
- Chieze Okoye
Twitter Reveals More Lists Power With A Widget http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... tip @techmeme
AJ Kohn liked this
Interesting but still doesn't solve the problem with most list creation. IMO, it would be more interesting to have a list with an overlay of keywords as a filter.
- AJ Kohn
Re: What Does Twitter Lists Reveal About You? - http://www.damondnollan.com/2009...
"Reach! That's brilliant and dovetails into what I think Twitter is really good at: marketing. Twitter is a very good ... Internet megaphone. If you have something to say then Twitter helps you get that message out. And the more people you can blast it to, the more effective you'll be. So reach is an excellent way to think about it. The number of Followers and Listed will increase the reach of that person or brand. That doesn't mean you're message is received well or that it carries the most weight but ... you'll be heard. It's not exactly influence or authority. You can be bombarded with a lot of ads for something and it'll still go no where. Plenty of ad campaigns in the graveyard to look to for examples. I'm still not keen on the idea that the act of following is a true indicator of influence. I think Dunbar's number is still alive and well. It might be slightly larger than 150 due to technology advances but it still exists. To me, that means that adding 1 more to a list of 1000..."
- AJ Kohn
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