Andrew Preston › Likes

Hmm. I know 'of' the bible, I've read books about the bible. I'm not sure that you should have to know the bible just because you have been raised in a particular geographic location. It's not my fault I was born here. Since most westerners are most likely au fait with western culture, it might actually be a better idea to read the Koran. Anyway, I think it's perfectly possible to be educated and to have not read/studied the bible or any other work of religious indoctrination. - Paul Grav

see what happened after these guys READ THE BIBLE: Josh McDowell http://www.josh.org/apologe... and Lee Strobel http://www.leestrobel.com/Bio... - Thomas Ho

Wow Leo. I'm sad for you. I'll pray for you regardless - can't imagine an eternity without Leo Laporte's wisdom and humor. - Dan Nimtz

One should know the history of Western monotheism, and a good place to start is F.E. Peters http://tinyurl.com/5v3s4d Contemporary American politics is being driven by some of the worst memes in the tradition. - Sean McBride

There's nothing more insulting to an atheist than the "Awwwwww how sad. I'll pray for you!" line after telling someone (or a group) you are an atheist. As for the Lee Strobel reference, how come is "Case for a Creator" book only interviews like minded people? That's good journalamism!! (and when I read soem pretty significant chunks of the bible, all it did was cement my atheism.) - Jason B.

Actually, @Paul Grave The Bible is not a western book. It is an oriental one. (middle East). And the scriptures were handed down through the nation of Israel. If you read the account of Pentecost when Jews of several different languages were given a witness about Christ this is a story of the initial spreading of Christianity. - Melanie Reed

Also, there are many works of literature that will lose their richness of meaning for you if you have not read the Bible. The most familiar are the complete works of Shakespeare. A reading of The Winter's Tale which is his most complex play will make little sense if you have not read the Bible. - Melanie Reed

Jason, likewise, there's nothing more insulting to a Christian (or any person who practices a religion) to be told "if you actually read your sacred text, you'd be an atheist, too." Understanding is needed from both sides. Paul, I don't understand the resistance to reading the bible on the grounds that it's "religious indoctrination:" is there some fear that once reading it, the book will cast a spell and your mind and free will will be forever lost? - Mark Trapp

Mark, indeed and I never said that. I just said that for me, it cemented *my* atheism. Although many of the casual Christians I've known seem to have a severe lack of knowledge of their own book & belief system, including the relative who thought Christmas really was the actual calendar day of Jesus' birth. So you can (I hope) understand where that sentiment comes from at times. (as well as the many biblical contradictions and selective quoting of the Religious Right puts a bad taste in an atheist's mouth) - Jason B.

@Jason B. If it ever becomes your desire, I will be happy to take you beyond the "chunks" of the Bible you have read and study it with you as a whole so that you will see that it is more than you might think. I am confident that you will find that you have missed a great deal. As to your perception of it altering, I will leave that to you and God. - Melanie Reed

Likewise, there are a great many casual scientists I've known who seem to have a severe lack of knowledge of all the scientific and academic work that's been going around: how many casual scientists do you know that believe that evolution is law have actually read all the science journals on evolution? My god, they are so ignorant! Come on. As with EVERYTHING, there's a lot of big picture stuff you need to believe or know, and a lot of details that, while enriching your beliefs, don't invalidate everything. - Mark Trapp

Furthermore, there are a bunch of engineers I know who have a terrible time interacting with people because they approach relationships as an analytical problem. Do I write off or treat with contempt every engineer, or treat them as a representative sample of engineers, because of this? Why would you do that for any group of people? - Mark Trapp

I'm just saying it'd do everyone a solid if people would stop with the constant assumptions about a person's state of mind based on their faith (or lack thereof). - Mark Trapp

Agreed on the assumptions. Earlier things ("How many casual scientists do you know that believe that evolution is law have actually read all the science journals on evolution?") I'm gonna let slide or I'll get really pedantic. heh - Jason B.

@Melanie Reed. I didn't spell my name wrong, it really is Paul Grave. I never said that the bible was a western book. I think Leo mentions that educated westerns ought to know it because of its significant influence on western culture. - Paul Grav

@Mark Trapp, No there's no fear on my side. I've read parts of it. I've never found the time or inclination to read it from start to finish. There are many interesting books that I'd like to read, and I only have a finite amount of time. - Paul Grav

@Jason B It always amazes me when an atheist is offended when a Christian offers to pray on their behalf. If you truly deeply believe that we are praying to nothingness - why would that bother you? It certainly isn't infringing on your rights, and as Christians, we are just as deeply believing that it just may help. - Dan Nimtz

@Jason B I know where you are coming from when you mention being disappointed by the way casual Christians act, etc. That's because we are all sad examples of what we should be. That's why true Christianity isn't about religous people, it's really only about Jesus. I've often found that once people get passed the "Christians" and get on to Jesus, perceptions often change. - Dan Nimtz

We ought to share this thread with the folks who've been lamenting that FF users ONLY talk about FF :^) - Thomas Ho

@Paul Grave Thank you for catching my typo on your name. I'm sorry I added an "s". I am not a great typist. ;) I have corrected it. When you said "I'm not sure that you should have to know the bible just because you have been raised in a particular geographic location. It's not my fault I was born here. Since most westerners are most likely au fait with western culture, it might actually be a better idea to read the Koran" Your thought suggests that you were associating the Bible w/western culture. - Melanie Reed

@Paul Grave I do agree with you; the Bible has had an impact on western culture. It has also had and continues to have an impact on many other cultures throughout the inhabited world and it will continue to. Frontline is re-airing, for instance, in July a program called "Jesus in China" - Melanie Reed

@Dan Nimtz. I tend to find it slightly condescending to receive prayers from a 3rd party. Praying for me would imply that there's something wrong with my life that needs correcting. I understand the intention is probably good, but it doesn't stop it from ticking me off. - Paul Grav

@Melanie Reed. Thank you for the correction :) My message was in reply to Leo's. I'm assumed that Leo thinks that westerners ought to 'know' the bible because of its *influence* on western culture. I might be wrong, I don't know. His words are all I have to go on. - Paul Grav

What @Paul Grave said re: "praying for me" (where me = an atheist) - Jason B.

@Paul Grave Forgive me if my reply sounded like a correction. It was meant more as a clarification. What I have found in my "travels" about the American culture is that the Bible has come to be associated with the western culture from a perceptual rather than actual basis. Yet the Bible was written for all people and transcends culture. The very first promise in the Bible is a blessing that was extended to all the nations of the earth. - Melanie Reed

In fact, you will become an Atheist if you know Bible, Koran, Bhagwat Gita and other religious books. Once you understand what is written in them properly, you will want to run away from the religion. - Krishnan Subramanian

re: "condescending" - point taken. Just so you know where I'm coming from, I don't consider myself or anyone inferior to each other. From my point of view, we all need help in some way. But I do understand your point. - Dan Nimtz from twhirl

I've read all three cover-to-cover. I guess I'm broken. - Mark Trapp

@Krish You couldn't be more wrong for millions of people. That doesn't mean what you said isn't accurate for some. But don't generalize everyone into concluding what you may have. - Dan Nimtz from twhirl

@Paul Grave That men and women have come and gone and misrepresented that promise, does not make it less true. That we have come to focus on the tragic difficult and disloyal actions of some often to the exclusion of the good and loyal actions of many who live the way of Christ is something we must carefully and honestly, though sometimes uncomfortably give consideration. - Melanie Reed

@Dan Nimtz. Thanks. I appreciate your understanding. @Melanie Reed. When I mention 'influence', I'm thinking of how Christianity has affected our laws, our education system (the UK in particular) and US presidential candidates etc.. etc.. It's not islam or the koran that had/has influence in western culture, but christianity. - Paul Grav

Why am I not surprised to see the standard, "I'll pray for your soul" response? Equally typical is the assumption that atheists are afraid of the bible. I totally agree with Krish ... The more I learned about various religions, the less I wanted to do with religion. - Chantal

@Paul Grave Thank you for clarifying. One of the reasons for the turmoil of the world, what the Bible refers to as a "pushing and shoving" of influences ( to keep to your term) is so that all objections to the rule of Christ as King will be answered. We are living in such times where the action appears to be headed toward the climax, yet the rising action has already occurred, the climax at the Cross, and the falling action, though protracted, is where you and I are getting a front row seat as it were. - Melanie Reed

By the way, I just bought The God Delusion (Richard Dawkins) the other day! Good atheist reading, that. - Chantal

see what Richard Dawkins says about reading the Bible: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol... - Thomas Ho

I'm glad to hear it, Leo. Now I'm an even bigger fan. - Chris Johnson