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- Katya
I just spoke with FriendFeed cofounder Paul Buchheit. Did you know that he promised family that FriendFeed would continue? More:
immaterial, Alfredo 亜瑠布れっど, deceth and 275 other people liked this
He told me they messed up by not communicating better last week. The deal happened so fast that they didn't pay attention to everything.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
I like how this is starting
- Robert DeBord
o0o0o0
- Mark
as its own service?
- Lee
you are the one who keeps proclaiming its death
- Mark
That's what Compaq said when they purchased DEC. (for those of you old enough to remember)
- RobinDotNet
A promise is not a guarantee.
- Amit Morson
Such a tease, Robert. ;-)
- Kol Tregaskes
More smoke-blowing. I don't care of Paul swore on the graves of his ancestors. Actions speak louder than words. Some vague promise to a group of people I'm excluded from doesn't do much to assuage my unease.
- Akiva
Akiva, you're right, but it's not smoke.
- Louis Gray
Okay, Louis, true. I retract that first sentence. The rest of it, however, I'm sticking by.
- Akiva
Akiva: well I feel a lot better about things today.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Continue just as it is? Or with key changes?
- Karma Martell
I would expect them to post more on this topic soon - on their personal blogs.
- Louis Gray
If that's what Paul wants to promise us, he needs to release some kind of official statement, not send a message through Robert.
- Rochelle
Soon.
- Louis Gray
I bet you as part of the contract, its in there not to shut this down
- Stephen Pickering
Rochelle: there are too many unknowns to make a definitive statement yet.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
keeping my hopes up. but i do remember working at a few radio stations that were bought, we'd get a memo saying 'the format is not going to change' about three weeks before we switched to spanish. i think there is just too much here for ff to vanish. keep the dream alive!
- michael sean wright
How can he when it`s lost all of its autonomy? Supplanted by Facebook, bought outright no?
- sofarsoShawn <Pop-Rocks>
It couldve been part of the deal not to let the site die
- Stephen Pickering
Robert, like you said, one can hope. However both of us know how corporates work and it takes one small decision from share holders to close down the service, no matter what.
- Nir Ben Yona
They want to get to Facebook and get those unknowns nailed down first.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Holden and Rochelle, etc., let's be patient. If you see the post I put up last night and add Robert's comments here, we should be feeling a lot better today than we did on Monday.
- Louis Gray
Robert, all right. Well, after my initial freak-out over this, I've gone into complete wait-and-see mode. More of these vague promises and 'coming soon' messages don't really do much for me. When someone say something definitive, then I'll be there to consume it. The rest of this just doesn't add up for much.
- Akiva
That was a great post Louis
- Stephen Pickering
Thanks, Stephen. I thought it was important.
- Louis Gray
Akiva, exactly, waiting for official word.
- Kol Tregaskes
Nir: the way it was told to me contractually it can't be closed down anytime soon.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
I hope they don't change it so you have to have a Facebook account to use it. I have one, but share it with very few; I use Twitter and FF for everyone. I want to be able to use it the way I do now.
- RobinDotNet
Like any takeover/merger, some details just take time to work out. Hopefully FF can stay around in some form and help make FB better. We'll just have to wait and see. Thanks, Robert, for the info.
- Mark Edwards
I agree, we haven`t seen anything substantive in the way of contract etc but fingers crossed.
- sofarsoShawn <Pop-Rocks>
But doesn't mean it won't be shutdown at some point?
- Kol Tregaskes
And, Louis, I didn't see your post from last night but I'll read it as soon as I get back from the store.
- Akiva
was Pownce a bit like Friendfeed? I never used it
- Mark
I can't get my hopes up when Facebook is in the picture. :-(
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
Stable Door and Horse comes to mind.
- Kevin J Hatton
The fact that the FF folks haven't yet said "This is how we want it, so this is how it's going to be" is just evidence that they don't have the final say on the matter. If it's subject to some additional authority/approval, nothing is certain at this point.
- Ken Sheppardson
Kol: it won't be shut down anytime soon. He was quite clear about that.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Kol, the truth is they work for Facebook now, and therefore, FriendFeed can/will change, and it may not change 100% how you and I want. It may be part of Facebook's site later, and it may not. But Facebook is changing from what we know of it now to something new where they overlap.
- Louis Gray
In other words that was in the contract. Makes sense, since they were hesitant anyway
- Stephen Pickering
Robert, OK but maybe at some point though.
- Kol Tregaskes
I sure would like it if FF continued indefinitely.
- Jason Nunnelley
Kol: nothing in life is guaranteed.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Patience is a good thing. That said, if FriendFeed wasn't growing at a rate much higher than it has been, something would have to change. You don't bottle up such talent and experience and have it work on a product that was losing.
- Louis Gray
Robert, What about death and taxes?
- RobinDotNet
Good to hear. I am sure they will take time to decide what exactly to do with FF. How to integrate them together. What to do etc. FF the R&D for FB I think it could be
- Robert Anderson
Robert, true. All a bit vague still though.
- Kol Tregaskes
Scoble: encourage Facebook to keep FriendFeed as a premium brand. Let them tie it to Facebook data or whatever, but keep the system separate.
- Gary
Louis, right, this gives them legitimacy and exposure
- Stephen Pickering
Kol... if they wanted to grow they way they "deserved" to grow, this place would have changed underneath your feet to something you might hate. This is one way to put real capital and people behind the site as it is now.
- Louis Gray
If this thing grows by leaps and bounds, FB is not going to close it
- Stephen Pickering
Mark: anytime a blogger says something is dead ALL that means is that it is less interesting than yesterday.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Over time, we will learn, Sam. It's a classical marketing/engineering decision. Do you build for the current user base, or the potential user base? With change. some were bound to leave anyway.
- Louis Gray
Louis, not arguing that at all. My point was about shutting it down or not. I'm at the wait-and-see stage, waiting for more news from FF.
- Kol Tregaskes
And any time I write a headline that says it's NOT dead... maybe I know what I'm talking about. :)
- Louis Gray
But this service grows more useful the more users there are
- Stephen Pickering
Something needs to happen. Twitter is useless now - maybe a new denial of service attack. I would love to see the Friendfeed technology spread to the mass user base that Facebook has.
- Frode Stenstrøm
Well, at least he acknowledged they messed up.
- Rodfather
Frode: that was what Paul told me too. He wants the tech here to be used by everyone.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
I don't understand why Google didn't buy it instead.
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
Rod, FriendFeed has no PR or Marketing. Maybe if they did, this would have been handled differently. Some things come naturally, and others are hard. But I bet you will see a lot more soon.
- Louis Gray
I've heard the same from another founder, Robert.
- Anne Bouey
Franz, no official word, just wait for an announcement from FF.
- Kol Tregaskes
They didn't want to work for google again.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Makes you wonder about a due diligence ckecklist and the speed of getting this deal done
- courtney benson
Kinda why they left. ;-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Right, look at Google Reader. They don't know how to do social
- Stephen Pickering
It's all wonky and hard to understand
- Stephen Pickering
But GR is going in that direction.
- Kol Tregaskes
Companies come and companies go. They can go by closing their doors or by being acquired. Only time will tell whether FriendFeed has come and gone.
- Jeff Sayre
GR is trying, but its all wonky and totally un understandable
- Stephen Pickering
Oh. I just don't trust Facebook at all and can barely stand using it after being here.
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
Jannifer, I think we have to look beyond the caricatures of people like Zuckerberg, and recognize that he too may want the same things we do. Facebook is growing up and I bet FriendFeed and its team is a big part of that.
- Louis Gray
Louis, hope so.
- Kol Tregaskes
courtney: Paul talked about that too. He said once the team made the decision they knew it had to be closed overnight to prevent it from leaking.
- Robert Scoble
Louis I think its a perfect marriage, genius engineers + genius Marketers
- Stephen Pickering
Well, he didn't quite say "prevent it from leaking" but he said "it's important to do it all at once." I knew what he meant, though, that it had to be done fast to keep things from getting crazy, like they do once decisions like this get taken into public sphere.
- Robert Scoble
I am sure paul is truthful in that he would like for it to go that way, but this is a M&A situation, and even if it is written into the agreement, there are a million ways around it. At the end of the day, shareholders make the rules in a majority vote. If ff isn't integrated in fb somehow, I fail to see how it benefits fb.
- Erik Boles
from iPhone
Kol: Paul was emphatic that Facebook is a far more interesting company at this time in both company's history.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Somehow this doesn't sound too convincing. If Friendfeed has been losing a LOT of regular users because of their deal with Facebook, they'd be concerned. Friendfeed is likely to get you to speak on their behalf, since you are their most popular user. Maybe Paul is trying to convince you, so that he can indirectly convince others too. That might save an early end to Friendfeed brought on by the rapid loss of users.
- K N Ajit Narayan
I totally agree with Paul, by the way. Facebook is a much more interesting company to join right now than Google is.
- Robert Scoble
Facebook = Microsoft 2.0
- scott anderson
Robert: Did he mention anything about Mashable reporting an acquisition had been talked about since `07?
- sofarsoShawn <Pop-Rocks>
YAY! thanks Scoble for letting us know - i feel alot better today!
- Chris Clayton
Hey, Microsoft had a decent run
- Stephen Pickering
Louis: yeah, Zuckerberg is a lot smarter and a lot more down to earth than most of the press gives him credit for. He's always been straight up with me. Much better than other companies have treated me.
- Robert Scoble
And that's even including getting kicked off of Facebook for 24 hours.
- Robert Scoble
@ Scott, LOL Facebook = Microsoft 2.0! I see your point, but it far surpasses Microsoft Live attempt at a social network.
- Nakeva Corothers
Erik: technologies that have great audiences don't get killed. If anything will kill it, it will be us. By leaving.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, cool. Well if they can ditch a lot of their annoying features, like this FB Lite might be, then I might be interested in moving over with all the FF features implemented but I just can't work with FB in it's currently state. I had another go this weekend and still didn't like it. But I'd be even happier if FF stayed here. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
this is gonna be an interesting story to follow for sure. For now I am just using friendfeed the way I have been and see what comes out down the road. life is about changes.
- (jeff)isageek
sofarsoShawn: I don't know what you're talking about regarding Mashable.
- Robert Scoble
Maybe I missed it earlier in this thread but why can't they just come out and say something directly to the community? Obviously a lot of people are concerned and anxious about it... Why do we have to hear second-hand? And why has it all been so vague? No news is not necessarily good news in cases like this.
- Lindsay
Robert, Leo called himself Leo Scoble today because he deleted his 5000 FB friends and moved them over to his fan page
- Stephen Pickering
jeff: yeah. Visiting Facebook is going to get more interesting. He also said that the first month at Facebook (which starts Monday) will be all about learning about Facebook's code. So, no new features will come quickly.
- Robert Scoble
Ok. I hope Facebook changes a LOT so it's more tolerable. Although I don't like it, I need to set up a good Facebook page for business so I can remain competitive.
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
I hope they do right by you. You brought them to the party. I hope that gets recognized somehow monetarily.
- Jim Posner
Saying that it might be shut down at some point doesn't tell us anything new, though; after all, any site might be shut down at some point due to going out of business etc.
- Tristan Seligmann
When anything comes out of this it was always going to be long term.
- Kol Tregaskes
Can i just add - Paul never said friendfeed was going to die in the first place... instead they said the complete opposite - "FriendFeed.com will continue to operate normally. We're still figuring out our longer-term plans for the product with the Facebook team."
- Chris Clayton
sofarsoShawn, yes, Facebook had been talking to FriendFeed since 2007.
- Louis Gray
Lindsay, I bet the FriendFeed team has a very busy week and maybe you hear from them on all this soon.
- Louis Gray
Robert: "technologies that have great audiences don't get killed..." oh, come on, you know better than that! My dad worked at IBM so I've been seeing tech companies kill great stuff that their customers liked for most of my life!!!!
- Fred Davis
Jim, Scoble has gotten no money from FriendFeed (nor have I). Neither one of us expects to, as that would change the relationship.
- Louis Gray
Fred, right, the Innovators Dilemma, but in this case its cost of running a website is halving every year
- Stephen Pickering
Louis: yes, but Paul told me that when I last was in the office they hadn't yet decided to go to Facebook. Everything happened in the past two weeks. I think you even walked in on one of their key decision points. He said they worked all weekend long on the agreement.
- Robert Scoble
Fred: nothing in life is guaranteed, yeah, you're right. But there's no business reason to turn this off anytime soon. If we all leave there will be.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: e.g., consumer company changes focus to biz or gets acquired... new company direction leads to consumer products getting killed despite popularity... that's just one of many ways that good tech gets killed all the time!!!
- Fred Davis
No disagreement on that at all, Robert. I know I walked in on something big, and that was my mistake for not calling ahead.
- Louis Gray
Seems their valuation stood on Roberts shoulders to some degree. At the least, a public thanks would have been nice.
- Jim Posner
Jason: i know, thats what got me freaked out too - i just thought i would add it in incase anyone missed it :) and because im a little bored! lol
- Chris Clayton
Fred, can you give any examples? Any software I used to use that is no longer available was replaced with something better.
- RobinDotNet
No business reason that WE understand... 'cuz we don;t go to Facebook board meetings ;-) Facebook may have their own agenda... in fact, I assume they do...
- Fred Davis
Jim: I do this because I love it, not because I expect thanks or goodies.
- Robert Scoble
Why even bring this up if they can't talk about it? Nothing has changed just more innuendo and smoke and mirrors and a lot of 'what ifs'. Wake me when there's something concrete.
- Derrick
Robert: when you talk to paul next, can you push him into doing a public announcement on it all? Just give him a nudge in the right direction! :)
- Chris Clayton
RobinDotNet... god, too many to count! First one I was bummed about was in '85 when Musicworks was the best MIDI program on the Mac... got acquired by some jerky game company that decided it wasn't a game and stranded all the users! Yeah, eventually new better stuff came along... but that didn't do the users of the current any good at that time...
- Fred Davis
Derrick: sorry, I totally disagree. I didn't know that contractually they can't kill the service anytime soon.
- Robert Scoble
Derrick, there is more than smoke.
- Louis Gray
It makes sense, they had leverage to make that deal
- Stephen Pickering
Fred -- Okay, so that was one that was 24 years ago. Have any more recent examples? If you can't think of any, then they obviously weren't that important.
- RobinDotNet
Because they were hesitant, they had the leverage to make that part of the deal. Makes total sense
- Stephen Pickering
Um, apple buys leading music sequencing package and kills of PC version because, um, they want to force you to use a mac... come on, the list is endless!!! Companies screw customers by killing good products for their own reasons all the time....
- Fred Davis
Fred, you keep saying the list is endless, but the only one you can name is one that came out about 2 years after the 1st Mac, 24 years ago. I'm just saying....
- RobinDotNet
Fred, but what if part of the deal was not to kill it?
- Stephen Pickering
Derrick: believe me, Louis and I have been talking and concerned about the messaging coming out of this deal more than anyone. We both invested a lot of our time/careers here. Louis has been talking with the team too and that's where his post came from yesterday. I suggest you read it and read between the lines too.
- Robert Scoble
Understand Robert, Really not about your motivation, just good manners in my opinion for Friendfeed to thank you publically. Maybe they have and I missed it. I think you did more for promoting the service than the founders.
- Jim Posner
now, what facebook decides to do with friendfeed... who knows... Yahoo kept Flickr going... so far... but that seems like the exception... no one's really using jabber any more, but it lives on in the upcoming Wave and as XMPP at Google...
- Fred Davis
Jim: thanks, appreciate it. Paul did thank me in the interview I did with him right after the announcement was made.
- Robert Scoble
If there is a contractual obligation on FB's part to keep FF running, the obvious question is what does this contract state and does it give a duration. Hopefully we'll hear more later.
- Kol Tregaskes
Why? What would be the point? I respect you two enough and all that you do in the world of social media and that's fine. I want a place I can converse, post my pictures, air my gripes, and continue to establish the friends I've made via Friendfeed. Will I be able to do that or not? I'm so tired of the conjecture. Some of us, are just people who love the service and more than anything, very simply, we just want to be able to utilize it.
- Derrick
Kol: I call it the "Paul is sleeping on the couch for a month" clause. ;-)
- Robert Scoble
LOL, Robert.
- Kol Tregaskes
For a company like Facebook, I would imagine that the consolidation of branding advantage would lead me to suspect that even if Friendfeed is kept going in some way, it will be re-branded as Facebook... just like Longs, Wamu, and Wells Fargo are going through right in Facebook's backyard.
- Fred Davis
Derrick, this is the place to do that. :)
- Louis Gray
"For now". ;-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Throws sheep at Kol
- Louis Gray
Hehe, Louis.
- Kol Tregaskes
The other main issue I have is that, now we are creating content for Facebook. Facebook owns our data. For some reason I didn't mind Paul and his team, they were blacksheep. If I wanted to make Facebook richer I would type in Facebook in the URL. I dont want to make Facebook richer.
- Robert Higgins
What are the alternatives to FF? Isn't there Streamy, Plurk, SocialThing?
- Eric
Louis, I'll be counting sheep soon, need sleep. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Of course, since I'm hoping Grabbit will replace Friendfeed for most people, I'm more than a little biased, and that makes me care a lot less about what happens to Friendfeed... even though I love the service, and hope Facebook keeps it going. We're already planning to support Friendfeed in Grabbit, and the new Friendfeed API is awesome, so who knows what the extent of the disruption...
more...
- Fred Davis
Sam, I know there is something. I am upset, because I wanted to buy FF someday! :)
- Eric
There has to be an alternative.
- Eric
Jason: too early to know that for sure. I'd start with the API. From what my friends are telling me who are good developers the API is actually very well thought out.
- Robert Scoble
There was an alternative, but I think it shut down.
- Eric
There is no need to replace FriendFeed. That there are options to decentralize our info is great, but I'm not going anywhere.
- Louis Gray
It was called SocialThing.
- Eric
Fred: I just don't like Facebook's service for WHAT I DO. For my wife? It's freaking awesome. And the execs there have always treated me very well (Zuckerberg walked around Davos with me, while every other journalist was drooling over the opportunity to do that -- he's a lot nicer and smarter than most people give him credit for).
- Robert Scoble
Eric & Jason: my new web thingie Grabbit, will do everything Friendfeed does and more, so much more... it's still in alpha, and the beta won't be out until next month... but already the alpha features better Facebook and integration than Friendfeed, IMHO... so, check out grabbit.net and ask to be on the beta list, and we'll keep you posted...
- Fred Davis
It was called Rejaw, and it was shut down.
- Eric
Fred: can't wait to see more about Grabbit.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Hey dude, I TOTALLY agree with you about Facebook! I've been telling people for a while that I think Facebook is in the process of Yahoo-ing themselves... and that ain't no compliment!
- Fred Davis
FriendFeed family or real family?
- Mona Nomura
FF is crazy to sell. They should've sold to Google, what were they thinking?
- Eric
louis i agree with you. i am not going anywhere either. this is the place i love and think is awesome
- (jeff)isageek
Robert, is Paul referencing his FriendFeed family or real family? (not expanding thread - too long)
- Mona Nomura
Mona: real family AND FriendFeed family. They are one and the same if you look at it the right way.
- Robert Scoble
Sam: what do you mean "intergrate email" friendfeed already has email features so it depends on what you mean...
- Chris Clayton
Same here, Jeff. If FF is still around I'm not budging. It it goes FB on us then it's bye-bye.
- Kol Tregaskes
Google Wave is like FF?
- Eric
Sam, got that in Grabbit... email, RSS, blog alerts, news alerts, and more... plus the coolest friend management stuff to help you sort all that out, not just the messages, updates, and alerts...
- Fred Davis
Mona: if you want me to do something for you, talk Maryam into it first. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Eric: just like the others you mentioned, it has 1 or 2 similar features, but completely different!
- Chris Clayton
and twitter, facebook, friendfeed, etc., of course... we're starting a signup on grabbit.net...
- Fred Davis
I used to use FeedEachOther which was like FF.
- Eric
Now there is Google Reader.
- Eric
Google reader is improving, but still has a long way to go. On the social side.
- Bluesun 2600
That's the one thing I've always liked about FriendFeed - the founders (and staff) interacts with the community, as do their family members. The community members were treated like family, too. :) Whatever which way, hopefully Facebook will integrate FriendFeed's functions to carry on the "feel" over there as well. Personally, I have the more the merrier approach! BTW see you Thursday, Robert! Gnomedex sold out!
- Mona Nomura
I'm not up to speed with this discussion, but FB must have bought FF to merge FF tech into FB. FF for everybody, not just Scoble and tech friends.
- Zato Gibson
Sam: i was actually looking for a way to have the subjects of my emails show up on my friendfeed dashboard awhile ago - do you mean like that? Because that would be awesome!
- Chris Clayton
i would love to see friendfeed get a killer mobile app...maybe improve on fftogo a little more
- (jeff)isageek
Google Reader is my current alternative btw. I've found the share box today and now using it like FF's share box. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Google Reader is great, but it's not built to replace FriendFeed. It's not an aggregator, for one.
- Louis Gray
one thing is I don't think you can share images from pages as easily as FF's share.
- Bluesun 2600
Life2front has anyone heard of it?
- Eric
i think you can look at two services that were bought up and never really changed all this time in flickr and delicous so hey maybe friendfeed stays around as it is...maybe just integrates a bit more or something with facebook
- (jeff)isageek
Well you can put your services into a folder then create a bundle and share it. But no not quite like FF. It lacks a lot of features and Comments view is awful.
- Kol Tregaskes
and look how long google had grand central before they really even started doing anything with it.
- (jeff)isageek
So Friendfeed stays on as a side project instead of being abandoned. Does that really make a difference in the grand scheme of things? The service isn't going to grow by leaps and bounds either in audience or functionality now. I guess a slow death is easier for people to deal with than a quick one.
- Dare Obasanjo
Sam: i love that idea... email services dont have RSS (not that i can find anyway) i was looking for 5 hours for one afew months ago so i could put it in a private group to show up on my FF stream. but i ended up being dissapointed!
- Chris Clayton
I hope we all converge over to Google Wave and that some clever sod codes a FF-type service built on the Wave protocol. :-) GWave is great fun to use!
- Kol Tregaskes
Kol: are you going to send me a download link? :P im still waiting for it from the 'sneak peek' survey i filled out AGES ago!
- Chris Clayton
Whhhhhhat how`d you try it already?
- sofarsoShawn <Pop-Rocks>
Dare: there are lots of things that don't get many new features but are still very popular. FriendFeed still has way more features and is better technology than anything else I've seen in the marketplace. Maybe someone will eclipse it, but that won't happen soon and, yes, a slow death is definitely better than a quick one. Why? Cause you can make plans and change your behavior.
- Robert Scoble
Download link for GWave? Don't work like that. ;-) Just wait until 30th September, Chris. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Kol: but september is too long to wait :( blame scoble for making me a social media addict! :)
- Chris Clayton
Hehe, it will fly by.
- Kol Tregaskes
Robert: if this is just about whether they'll shut off the servers or not then why is this even causing hubbub? Given the complaining of a vocal set of users I'm sure that even if they planned to shut off the site, it'll keep going for a while. However it seems obvious that all their innovative ideas and day time hacking should be filled with innovating on Facebook not here.
- Dare Obasanjo
As both Louis and I have said - these guys have been nothing but actions thus far and haven't let us down. I see nothing changing from that yet, so I suggest everyone continue that trust. They have done nothing to break that trust yet. And like I wrote about, Facebook needs them as much as they need Facebook - Facebook wants to change into something more of what FriendFeed is, from what I've seen and read.
- Jesse Stay
It's not about shutting the servers off for some (most?) folks, it's a matter of how you reconcile FriendFeed and Facebook's views on content licensing, ownership, and privacy; whether we'll continue to see innovation at a pace faster than what Facebook's user base has historically been comfortable with; and whether we'll see a continuation of Friendfeed's openness towards third party developers and the open source community.
- Ken Sheppardson
And as I've said over and over again, Jesse, I think most of us trust the FriendFeed folks as individuals, but that trust doesn't necessarily transfer to Facebook as an institution.
- Ken Sheppardson
I second Ken. Zuckerbergs plans/dreams are also a kind of wild-card here. They could be favorable to us FriendFeed users, or not. Up till now, Zuckerberg hasn't done much favorable for me. That sucks. I wish it were different.
- Meryn Stol
Say what you want about Facebook but Zuckerberg and/or Facebook has revolutionized the Internet by forcing people to be real. (not real-time) It even reflects on Youtube - the commenters aren't as moronic as they were say three years ago, since more and more people are using their real names and identities.
- Mona Nomura
It's always like this and it never turns out the way Paul says it will, though I believe his intentions are honorable. At some point you no longer work for the old company and you start working for the new one. My guess is this has already happened. Soon people from the old team will have their new assignments, and then one day the server will go down. They'll bring it back up, but...
more...
- Dave Winer
Damn, Dave. And I thought that *I* was a cynic.
- Akiva
Akiva, I've been through it myself, and been in Paul's position.
- Dave Winer
Dave, I don't doubt that at all. It's just amazing from my perspective to see it put so honestly. Well put, sir.
- Akiva
Only when I was in Paul's position, I had a simpler situation cause we were developing shrinkwrap software and our mission was supposedly unchanged. We didn't have servers that had to be kept up 24-by-7. Even so, six months after the merger, the whole thing was turned upside down and the team had all-new priorities and tons of people had left, including the top guy (me!). I would get...
more...
- Dave Winer
Well put, Mona!
- Jesse Stay
Dave, I expect it to change, but I also expect that Facebook is doing this for not just the team they just acquired. I think Facebook really wants this technology.
- Jesse Stay
Jesse, that may be true but they'll want it for Facebook. And if you're a fan of Facebook, that's great, Facebook's going to get better. But if you're not? If you're a a fan of FriendFeed? Then all you're going to end up with is a bastardized FriendFeed with lots of dipshit apps.
- Akiva
Jesse: I'm not so sure. The technology will need to be rebuilt for the Facebook infrastructure. That's one reason why Paul doesn't have good answers for us yet. He said he needs a few weeks to really dig into Facebook's code base before he even has a good idea of where he and the FriendFeed'ers can really add value.
- Robert Scoble
Akiva, I'm a fan of both. And you know you can ignore those apps - that's not something you can do on FriendFeed or Twitter. FriendFeed would have gotten just as bad as it grew.
- Jesse Stay
Dave: thinking back on why I joined FriendFeed, it was because I expected that the team would do something interesting in the future. That reason has now been fulfilled and now that these guys are at Facebook it'll be interesting to see what they do.
- Robert Scoble
Jesse, where is the button to ignore the apps? I want to ignore all of them, all the time. Instead, I have to click hide on every single bloody one of them and still get notifications from people wanting me to add apps. I'd tolerate Facebook better if there was a magic "no apps, ever" button.
- Rochelle
Somewhat selfishly, I have just gained a whole load of new friends on Fb, here and on Google Reader and have learned loads about sharing and subscribing for which I thank you all :-) I will just watch and wait now, but I do agree that if everyone dashes off somewhere else and deserts FF, it could well hasten its demise. Best to try and use all the services and interlink them if we can.
- Julia Ault
Rochelle: I want you to install the FriendFeed app. :)
- Louis Gray
I am sure that FB was not happy if FF was going into MS hands or Google hands ,they bought it and now they will be the most important live and live search player on top of the best social community,,I am happy for them and for us as well ,they will keep our home and thats great news
- Johni Fisher
Jesse, this is true. I guess my real point is—aside from the easy-as-punch Facebook app snarking—that the very philosophies on which each service was built are essentially different. I'm not saying that these divergent ideas can't be unified. I'm just not convinced that they're compatible enough to be integrated without irritating one group and overwhelming the other. I'm sure the...
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- Akiva
Wish I was a millionaire like him :/
- Mark
"I'm just not convinced that they're compatible enough to be integrated without irritating one group and overwhelming the other. " - very well put, Akiva.
- Meryn Stol
Akiva, who says they will become one site? Why not enable the two communities to remain separate if they want, under the Facebook brand? I don't think we know yet what will happen.
- Jesse Stay
Good news because I love friend feed in it's current format.
- Rob Cairns
Robert, yes, we don't know for sure, but then again we don't know for sure - I don't see reason to change too much of our trust until something actually happens. I do know Facebook wants to open up more, while still retaining your right to privacy. The privacy thing is something FriendFeed (or Twitter) doesn't have, and I think would be a welcome addition.
- Jesse Stay
Rochelle, you have to do it either by app, or individual (unless I've missed the option). That said, I would kill for the ability to do that on FriendFeed or Twitter. They don't even have that.
- Jesse Stay
Jesse: FriendFeed doesn't have apps, so I'm not sure what exactly you're referring to; if you mean the ability to hide posts aggregated from a particular service, that's already there.
- Tristan Seligmann
Last I checked, Jesse, FriendFeed didn't have MafiaWars or Superpoke.
- Akiva
(If you click on "Hide", and then "hide other items like this one", you get a whole list of options)
- Tristan Seligmann
FriendFeed has a finite number of things to hide ("all items from Bob", "all Flickr posts", etc.). That's much more easy control than the thousands of apps on Facebook. It's like playing whack-a-mole over there. It feels like the more I hide, the more they appear.
- Rochelle
Akiva, Tristan, it's only a matter of time before the auto-dm apps appeared on FriendFeed. So long as FriendFeed grows, they will come. So long as it doesn't grow, it *does* disappear. There's no "hide all from the app that generated this DM" option on FriendFeed.
- Jesse Stay
Jesse, and, with all of the hide options already present on FriendFeed, you don't think the devs would have had the presence of mind to include something similar for any supposed FriendFeed apps?
- Akiva
Akiva, I trust that they'll add that as much as I trust they'll continue to fight for FriendFeed at Facebook.
- Jesse Stay
They don't even need any extra options; you can already hide direct posts based on the application that created them. For example, if you hide this post of Robert's, you'll get the option to hide all posts by iPhone.
- Tristan Seligmann
Jesse, I think no-one doubts that *they* will fight. The question is if they win. They're just employees now.
- Meryn Stol
Again, I'm surprised that my own cynicism—legendary in its own right—is being beaten about the face and neck in this thread.
- Akiva
Meryn, I also know the Facebook team - they're just as competent as FriendFeed's. Their original audience started different than FF's, but they too have to expand.
- Jesse Stay
Holden: engagement.
- Robert Scoble
It's hard for innovators to stop innovating, and for entrepreneurs to lose the total freedom and self-reliance that drives them. Every entrepreneur that I know personally (only a few, alas!) who has sold for the big bucks has eventually gone on to create something else.
- Kathy Fitch
Jesse, as I said earlier, my lack of knowledge on the plans of Zuckerberg is the problem. Do you know Zuckerberg? In the end, he's gonna decide what appears on Facebook or not. Also, it's not so much a matter of competence than it is a matter of vision and taste.
- Meryn Stol
I'm sure the FB engineers are competent.
- Meryn Stol
And wouldn't it be fascinating to have a gander at the kinds of separation agreements folks who leave FB must sign? Almost as interesting as seeing the acquisition agreement in this case.
- Kathy Fitch
It's totally unclear if future conversations we might have on FB will ever be indexable by Google. (or any other search engine) That all depends on Zuckerberg's final say. I can't look in the guy's head.
- Meryn Stol
Sure seems like you're scrambling, Robert, to place yourself in the center of this when you were completely blindsided by the sale. Justs sayin'
- Mattb4rd
Louis, nope! Those are two separate worlds for me and I intend to keep it that way.
- Rochelle
Once you stop owning something you lose the ability to make promises about it. Good intentions or no. One hard headed business decision like FF is not earning its keep or we need the resources elsewhere and it's done. Been on both sides.
- Todd Hoff
The only thing that would make a real difference in this case would be an unambiguous statement from Mark Zuckerberg himself. Let him address the FF community and actually say what he will commit himself to. I suppose he's a man of his word.
- Meryn Stol
Good news. Doin' the right thing!
- Rob Schieber
Yeah sure! Promises Promises!!!
- Jose Luis Santos
Hmm. A whole lot of the sale was in stock options. Takes awhile to get fully vested. The next few years should prove very interesting.
- Kathy Fitch
How can you live up to that promises when you no longer own it?
- John D Reasor
Actions speak louder then words, and the key is the final decision is no longer up to him. I am sure Paul means every word he says I just not sure he is going to be able to keep it.
- Kim Landwehr
"Promises are a bourgeois invention and, anyway, they're meant to be broken." [V. I. Lenin quoted from inexact memory] by
- ianf ⌘
@louisgray's »If you see the post I put up last night...« <http://friendfeed.com/scoblei...> If you cared for others to read that post, you'd have included a direct link to it. It's the essence of hypertext, and any "Silicon Valley early adopter, tech geek blogger" worth the name would have done just...
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- ianf ⌘
It would make some business sense to keep FF as some kind of separate site/module, if just to stop another site taking it's place and becoming another competitor.
- Robert Littlejohn
Hi Ian! I get what you are saying, but sometimes, dropping links to my own posts in other people's threads looks like spam. I also believe a good number of people saw it, and know how to get it otherwise. That said, it's right here: http://www.louisgray.com/live...
- Louis Gray
Robert - To say Facebook is more interesting to work for than Google may be a stretch. While Facebook is growing exponentially and has challenges, Google faces HUGE challenges just staying Google ... while exploring new areas of growth. Keeping the index relevant is a big challenge in itself. On the other hand ... the 'FF guys' have worked there already and know how they feel about what direction they wanted to go ... which .. I think ... makes a little more sense?
- Charlie Anzman
Charlie: remember most of this team already worked at Google. Facebook is pre IPO. Google is not. The potential rewards are much larger at Facebook and the potential to have an impact is much larger at Facebook too.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Posting links (references) to one's other posts "looks like spam"? That's news to me, and a lame excuse. In any event, given main difference between worlds of analog and digital publishing being ability in the latter case to refer back to source in unambiguous and granular fashion (rather than, as in analog, to indicate issue, chapter, page, verse, line, etc - if at all), not including...
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- ianf ⌘
ianf, I agree, but it feels like spam when you're doing it. Encourage him nicely.
- Bruce Lewis
i suspect that, if FF were to survive relatively unchanged it will be through an open-source effort. i doubt FF will survive as a stand-alone site w/ Fb paying the freight.
- MikeAmundsen
Keep in mind that despite the best intentions, nearly half of all sincere promises end in divorce.
- April
Robert: I agree that the technology with great audiences don't get killed off, but the name of the game to the shareholders is money. It makes a ton more sense for facebook to integrate friendfeed into facebook, an already monetizable model, vs. leaving it as a de-coupled technology that has to have a new revenue model built for it.
- Erik Boles
like x1000
- Vezquex
With so much money still on the table in the form of stock options, there's certainly plenty of motivation to make FB stellar. If FF ends up being treated well, too (for whatever reason--a promise, a warm fuzzy feeling, its potential role in helping to make FB stellar), then I'm all for that.
- Kathy Fitch
There is a way to argue keeping FF going makes sense to FB: The important thing in social software ISN'T the software, it's the people who use it. If the people who use FF are sufficiently different to those on FB, then it could make sense to keep both services. Possibly they may end up using the same software, but have different brands. Think of VW group in cars (SEAT/Skoda/VS/Audi are...
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- Nick Lothian
Interesting thread. I think that Paul has the best intention and he will do everything he can to keep the existing service up. Dave Winer has a good summary of the forces he will have to fight against. Making a Facebook vs. Google vs. Microsoft decision was probably a hard one. I am wondering if Twitter was in the race too...Twitter + Friendfeed could have been a great team to go...
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- Edwin Khodabakchian
Why the outreach now and not earlier in the week? Has something spooked the FF team? Seeing people looking for alternatives, and poking around Google Reader, Streamy, SocialThing, perhaps? Robert said it himself, if people leave here, FF dies, and the team doesn't have a whole lot to sell to FB (yeah, arguably) and that could scotch the whole deal. So I'm just wondering why the outreach now?
- Dominic Jones
ianf: don't you know, links are dead? ;)
- Tristan Seligmann
read it from the begining, I'm happy FF crew is beginning to acknowledge the questions, Dave definitely has a point, but all-in-all I thought death was near, it looks like it gets delayed for some time. The main thing is ppl are still here although reader is the new playground...unfortunately the communication with their team isn't all that good...
- Dobromir Hadzhiev
Dobromir, "read [297 more comments] from the begining" is not a good advice for anything, least of all here, in the Kingdom of Perpetual Constant Fragmentary Attention Overload, where realtime fly-by comments are the rule.
- ianf ⌘
Robert, thank you for sharing this info. I hope everyone got the message clearly. Wonderful news!
- Michael Fidler
from iPhone
It is not whether Friendfeed lives or dies. It's whether our free-wheeling, anarchic, community-driven approach will be replaced by the bland family-oriented guidelines of Facebook. Will we still be able to chuckle of Asian men on a beach, for example?
- Aaman (Clone of FF)
hey all, we can't return to the past, what happen has already happened, now the question is this one, may a micro community survive inside a large community, the answer is YES, FF community can and may have the same social behaviour it has here, and when move to FB, we need just to preserve our connections, and to maintain the same behaviour. that all, but even ancients tribes don't survive without scarifying some of their tradition.
- abdellah
Will Friend feed just get - morphed into Facebook now? clearly they want to take on Twitter. I noticed that I tryed to remove my Friend feed from facebook recently because less techy friends complained that I take over there Friend feeds...! But I can't... mmmm
- PRBristolco.uk
FaceFeed. Nom nom nom.
- Marlin Forbes
My goodness, there needs to be a way to search comments...I scanned to see if Paul had chimed in, but didn't see that.
- Chad Gesser
Scobe: I hope he does chime in. I think he needs to since you broke that.
- Chad Gesser
Chad: I think he'll say more after he has a little time at Facebook and can give definitive answers as to what the FriendFeed team is going to do there. He told me that will take several weeks.
- Robert Scoble
no i didnt know that
- Chris Nwakalo
if so wonderful news
- Ronald
Facebook is genuinely interested in best in class customer experience. I can't yet envision what features or practices are incorporated or left behind, but it seems a positive move for users. There is always a die-hard loyal following that doesn't want to see their Freind (feed) go away. Heck, I still record The West Wing on Bravo.
- Jeff Marmins
Yeah i sure hope so robert. . i really rather not be on facebook.
- RamirezG
Chad, to aid in scanning, you can do a Ctrl-F (or equivalent) and search the current page for "- Paul Buchheit" and/or install my user script that adds a mini avatar to the beginning of each comment http://friendfeed.com/friendf...
- Micah
Scoble, why do you think FriendFeed won't get sacrificed by Facebook management? Most sensible thing, to me, is to get FriendFeed integrated as a feature of Facebook, then eliminate the individual brand. Fact is, it's Facebook's decision at this point, unless the FriendFeed guys got something in writing to the contrary (which likely didn't happen). Sometimes you've got to go with your...
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- Jason Nunnelley
Jason: it doesn't really matter. I've been on Facebook all morning and they already have a lot of FriendFeed's features. Soon the rest will be moved over too. And the servers won't get turned off anytime soon, based on conversations with FriendFeed and Facebook. So, for now, use it and be happy. Me? I've already been spreading out my social networking time just in case.
- Robert Scoble
and before he disappears into a part of the web that I can't find.....how do you say his last name? Boo-Kite? Buck-heat? Really, I don't know and I wanna know. Just so I know, You know?
- Morgan
Раньше, когда не было френдфида, я писала "Когда твиттер лежит, некуда написать, что твиттер лежит"... Теперь есть куда %)))
Елена Ястребцева, dazor, Kuroki Kaze and 7 other people liked this
ага, он-таки лежит.. а то я думал у меня инет заглюкал :)
- NomadUA
И ЖЖ-шка тоже :) День протестов?
- Vitaliy Serdyuk
Take the red pill
внезапно!, Отборнейший бред, Парадокс Смейла and 15 other people liked this
тоже заметил. а в честь чего?
- velocityzen
прикольно)
- даже
это как-то с Матрицей связано?
- Пустотностьобусловленного
Да, сегодня 10 лет от премьеры первой Матрицы.
- Oleksandr Rakovets'
Так, сходу, и не заметишь. Но прикольно :)
- DezmASter
я-то думаю, чего у меня SpeedDial логотип френдфида в мозилле попортил!
- brave shit
как давно это было... даже не задумывался
- внезапно!
@alexrb_aka_ral Саш, когда почти год пустует проплаченный аккаунт на dreamhost.com — это как минимум расточительно =)
Alex liked this
мое дело предложить :)
- Alex
2.8" Google Android Dream G200i Tri-band Cell Phone w/ Edge, FM, Google Chrome - G200i - http://chinagrabber.com/2-8-goo...
Nock Forager, Morton Fox, Alfredo 亜瑠布れっど and 4 other people liked this
Per Unit Price: $234.99!
- Alexandros Georgiadis
from Bookmarklet
Ты на разрешение экрана посмотри! У Коган Агора такое же должно было бы быть. Будут проблемы с совместимостью. // Look on display resolution! Kogan Agora may had the same display. You know what happaned with it.
- Не здесь
Wow wow wow. Evernote won the Crunchie for Best Mobile Startup. Thank you all.
Alex, Eugene Huo, Brian and 9 other people liked this
Congrats Evernote team on getting Crunchie aware for best mobile startup!!!
- Susan Beebe
Congratulations. Now - although I know the glow of success is still warm - please consider bringing back your work/support on your original product - the native Windows Desktop app - which addresses a (slightly) different market need. With it you will have the broadest and BEST coverage of the market space! While Award Winning, "universal Platform" product is just not as handy a tool for writing extended essays or book length research projects - and this space could be yours too.
- David HC Soul
Yay!!!
- Lindsay
Conga Rats for your Crunchie, Evernote! Killer, killer app and I look forward to being here to see where you take it. :)
- teleken
awesome!! congrats guys!!
- Anant Shiva
My favorite iPhone app. AD/HDers everywhere rejoice! Congrats guys!
- Dave Cadoff
Снилось, что купил себе MacBook белый, а у него клава стерлась за один день. Отнес в магаз и вернул деньги, проснулся счастливым.
Alex and Илья Новиков liked this
Купил черный и сплю спокойно.
- Илья Новиков
а я думаю, какой купить :) и сплю
- Anton Popov
Ну вот, вы меня опять запутали :)
- woofer
покупай черный :) или белый :) но уходи с винды
- Alex
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