Allen Stern
new post - Socialmedian Exits Beta; Goldberg Charged With Grand Theft Content -
Nice headline, Allen, but the facts don't support your argument. I left a comment on your site. - Jason Goldberg
found the comment... - Allen Stern
I posted it twice now. email me at and I'll email you the comment if you want to post it yourself. - Jason Goldberg
Thanks for the comment - will reply shortly. And trust me, I never write titles I don't 100% believe are correct - I guess you don't read CN regularly. - Allen Stern
Allen -- I am an avid reader of CN and I think you provide a great service. I just think you got this one wrong in so many ways and I will defend our model vigorously, as you should hope I would. - Jason Goldberg
Yikes, what's all this about? two friends in a feud? hmmm not liking this - Susan Beebe
You absolutely should Jason - but you will soon see the light and when the plaintiff rests, there will be no defense :) - Allen Stern
Susan: I have a lot of respect for Allen Stern. But it's one thing for Allen to say he doesn't like using socialmedian and another thing entirely to accuse us of stealing content. - Jason Goldberg
you are stealing the conversation. you are using a feed in a way that was not authorized by the source, etc. if you did an optin by source, it would be different. i wish it wasn't so late here already :) - Allen Stern
looks like a fight gonna happen!! :o/ sort it out guys..:o) - Rob Sellen :o)
No, we are not stealing the conversation. We are enhancing it. We are enabling users to discover content / sources they never would have found. Every one of the >15,000 (and growing) sources on socialmedian have been added by users. Should we remove CN from our list of sources that users can use socialmedian to track, discover and share news from? You would be the first such source to opt-out. Will you also be asking Digg to not allow CN to be on Digg? - Jason Goldberg
Rob: it's not a fight, it's great and worthwhile debate! - Jason Goldberg
Rob - I love these debates/battles/whatever you call them - the entrep. always walks away with something to think about - that's always my goal. - Allen Stern
Did this FF thread steal the conversation as well? - Aviv
aviv you had to go there right? :) we've been down that road before so many times - Allen Stern
I can see both sides to this one. People who are trying to get paid based on a page view model want everything to happen on their blog. I know that because I'm running ads on my blog too and the impulse to get paid is a strong one, and getting stronger going into a recession. On the other hand, please do steal my conversation and take it wherever you want. I'll follow you and participate whereever you want. If that's on Social Median, go for it. - Robert Scoble
I just discovered another engaging new site to read - CN - Ian May
Scoble - I am not even talking about pageviews. We know that you are ok with everyone stealing everything from you. You are not a fair or valid use case. - Allen Stern
haha scoble doesn't represent "typical" at all. - mjc from IM
Allen: then why do you care if people have conversations about your content some place else? Other than you don't want to have to check a few different sites? I guess you have a point about protecting your copyright when it comes to your words, but regarding the conversation I just don't get it. Do you try to control cocktail party conversations about you too? "Hey, you over there, stop talking about me unless you come over here." Me, I choose to fight other fights. :-) - Robert Scoble
Michael: are you here? Are you typical? Well, then, why are you stealing Allen's conversation and not holding it over on his blog where he wants it held? - Robert Scoble
someone always brings up the offline comment as scoble just did - usually comes quicker - maybe its his jet lag. - Allen Stern
I am not typical either, I am using IM ;) - mjc from IM
mjc - i use im too oh and email oh and i actually visit content sources everyday - my only feeds are press release feeds. i like to engage. - Allen Stern
I meant friendfeeding via IM. - mjc from IM
Michael: I tried doing that, but I got too distracted. - Robert Scoble
Jason - ok next question... on the post about my story on social median, only the first paragraph of content was displayed. yet when i look at other stories i see way more content in what you call the "summary" - why is there less on some and more on others? - Allen Stern
Allen: you mean there's stuff other than the headlines that I see here on FriendFeed? Wow. I must try that sometime to see what else is out there. :-) - Robert Scoble
DING.... "where can I read about this!" :-P DING..round 2..:o) - Rob Sellen :o)
btw i replied to Jason's comments on my post - Allen Stern
@scoble ROFL. - mjc from IM
this is fun! and here i thought scoble would be in bed by now considering he has to deal with loic tomorrow :) - Allen Stern
There goes Allen again, trying to get me to leave FriendFeed to have a conversation. Heheh. - Robert Scoble
Allen: We display a summary of the story if such is provided in the feed. If not, we truncate the story to provide a short summary. The exception to this is on user-submitted stories where we allow users to include a slightly larger summary if they wish. - Jason Goldberg
Allen: Loic? He's easy to deal with. Of course he keeps trying to get me to come to Seesmic to have conversations. :-) - Robert Scoble
scoble.. do you wanna talk about it? :o) - Rob Sellen :o)
i am calling room service now at the hilton metropole :) - Allen Stern
I LOVE that this discussion is happening on FF. Proves my point. One might argue (I would) that the discussion content is often more interesting than the original content that provoked the discussion (hehe - jab, jab, :-)). - Jason Goldberg
Rob, nah, it's 3 a.m. in London and I do need to get to bed. And, no, I don't want to have a conversation with you in my bed. - Robert Scoble
lol.. aw, beds cold lol!! ...I am in south UK.. ;o) I should be in bed too!! :o) - Rob Sellen :o)
Have fun in Paris everyone. I had to cancel to attend to some business here in Pune, India, where it's 8:30 a.m. - Jason Goldberg
Jason: that was a low blow. OOoofffff. - Robert Scoble
Damn, now I have to go read the post that sparked this entertaining and interesting conversation. - Rahsheen
and jason, that is exactly my point. the state temporarily rests. - Allen Stern
ding...low blow.... oi jason!! ;o) DING.. round 3 !! :o) - Rob Sellen :o)
Allen -- you should link to this discussion from your post. yes, the conversation has shifted. - Jason Goldberg
It's all in fun and in the name of progress. - Jason Goldberg
so jason why do you allow longer scrapes from user submitted stories? - Allen Stern
Allen: Using our bookmarklet a user can highlight some text on a webpage and click to add that story and the selected text to socialmedian. We still only show a summary of the story in story lists and we limit the amount of text the user can select to add to socialmedian, but we do allow a slightly larger amount of content to be displayed there since the user went through the trouble of selecting some content that they want to highlight to others. - Jason Goldberg
It is unfortunate that Allen chooses to attack without seeing the benefit to his site. His article does nothing but make me *not* want to go CN. Yet previously I have gone there because of posts here. By his "attack" on S|M, he is shooting himself in the foot. - Robert Couture
Allen et al: here are some recent examples of short summaries provoking great discussion and debate. And, Allen, we hear all the time that this is a great way for people to discover new sources of content. - Jason Goldberg
Allen, the reason I brought that up is because it's a little ironic that you complain about third-party services stealing your comments, while in fact you pipe your notification tweet into FF and then engage with your readers right here on FF. By the time I stumbled upon this FF thread, the conversation alone made it unnecessary for me to even go to your original post at CN to read your initial arguments. - Aviv
This is one of the *MOST* intriguing conversation threads on FF ever. wow. I like Social | Median a LOT and enjoy the site immensely. I have huge respect for the amazing company Jason built. I love the technology and social concepts that drive the "clips" - like digg for news items. Conversations should NOT be controlled. Our world is getting more and more "open" and social in nature. I think we have to produce great content, get KNOWN for that... and the conversations will always come back to us. - Susan Beebe
WOW, look at the activity here. When was the last time CN had a discussion on ff, socialmedian, or your own site like this? Thanks, for clarifying your feelings in the comments on your site. You state that there is value in the comments created by your content, regardless of where they take place. It was hard to understand your position in the original post. So this is all about money. Bottom Line! I need to continue this, apparently there is a limit to the length of your valuable comments! - Michael Fidler
Allen, you should talk to ff, they're limiting the length of your comments. BTW, how does one value a comment? By the number of replies it gets,the length, or maybe by it's relevance it has to the story(Sounds like a job for the semantic web)? I clipped this article, but I didn't find it on your site, I found it here, You posted it in Kol's discussion. Kol, I think Allen might owe you a few cents! - Michael Fidler
Let's assume that you are right. In what way are you helping yourself by criticizing a potential future revenue source. Why not write a glowing review, and send all the traffic you can there. After all, one day it might be your bread & butter. If this all sounds ridiculous, that's because it is! Webcaster's, have been dealing with this issue since they started allowing their content to exist on multiple sites. But, creative advertiser's solved the problem for them, and created a new business for themselves. - Michael Fidler
It's interesting, this discussion mirrors one I've been having already with someone else. When it comes to good content, the discussion always leaves the site, either it goes to other blogs, or digg, or whoever else wants to pick it up. Your content lives outside where it was published now, it lives in your RSS and in online communities like FF and S|M. Your post inspired me to put down my thoughts in this ongoing argument that's not just here but very similar to the old vs new media argument as well. This is the way the web works, anything other than acceptance and adaptation endangers your property and just works to disenfranchise your current and potential readership. - Aram Zucker-Scharff
I tried to break it all down in my blog post ( ) but it ran a little long. It's a big issue and there is a lot invested in keeping conversations on the site that originated them, not just to generate traffic but to prove the viability of a news source. However, if you can start looking at things at a different angle, I think you may find that these changes are for the better. - Aram Zucker-Scharff
Since the comments and the clipping are my work, then maybe I'm the one that should be compensated for them, not you. I don't care to be, but it's the same logic that your using in this post. You need to start looking at the way the web is changing and start adapting to it. It's only going to continue to make information easier to share, and spread it out in ways we haven't even begun to imagine. Web 3.0 is all about the interconnecting of data. If your troubled now, just wait! - Michael Fidler