Though I am not a twitter early adopter, I tend to be one for most apps & services I use. I am currently doing kind of work with a couple companies as describe in this article: testing, reporting, feedback and so on. Sometimes in great detail, requiring hours of labor on my part. In at least one case, the company is sending me some promo items. Not much compared to the hourly rates that I charge my own clients, BUT, at least it's some kind of recognition. I can only hope that the rest of the companies I work with choose to reward me in some way, and show some recognition of the hard work that we all put into their products. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

I remember how I was treated by investors and employees. Will no one involved in Twitter start another company? Fred Wilson? Really? I will be far less willing to pour thousands of hours into their next venture cause they treated early adopters like shlubs. Even Ev and Biz will probably make a crapload and then want to invest in new companies. Leo Laporte is the one who got me onto Twitter and he was treated like crap by Twitter. - Robert Scoble

But the real question is how does the early adopter community as a whole change this dynamic? How do you deal with the fact that there's always someone who's going to do that work gratis? If you don't participate you miss out on the opportunities that the early adoption brings you that are beyond the scope of the company -i.e. Revenues derived directly & indirectly from blog & vlog coverage. How do you (we) get the companies to sign up for some clear form of reciprocation/recompense? - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

Rob: that's not really true. There are a few super connectors who can really help get a much larger audience onto new services by getting excited by them. My brother, for instance, no matter how excited he is by friendfeed, has only dragged a few hundred people on here. If Leo Laporte talks about friendfeed, though, thousands sign up (I've seen this happen over and over). So, if a company then turns around and treats the super connectors like crap (like Twitter has) and they remember (they do) ... - Robert Scoble

... then next time they come pitching they'll just stay quiet, which will retard their ability to get an audience. It's very possible they'll get that audience anyway due to other connectors, but it's a lot tougher. This is why PR people gripe about Techcrunch in private but usually treat Mike nice when it comes time to do a press tour. - Robert Scoble

Leo is really the one who got Twitter hot at SXSW two years ago. Most people don't know that. But he talked about Twitter on TWiT two weeks before SXSW and got all the early adopters onto it before SXSW. Then when we got there it was the talk of the conference. - Robert Scoble

So the question really remains, for the next big thing (forgetting the investors of Twitter for a moment) How do you ensure that you can change the dynamic? This story is all too often repeated. And the end result is damaged relationships, and a damaged community - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

How did Twitter repay Leo? By putting far less popular people onto their suggested follower list, which, in TechCrunch's case, got him 250,000 followers already (TechCrunch had far fewer followers than Leo did before Techcrunch got put onto Twitter's list). - Robert Scoble

Rob: make anything you do algorithmic and a meritocracy. Why is Techcrunch on the list (or Veronica, who had far fewer followers than Techcrunch did) on the suggested follower's list and not Leo? The fact that there's not an equal way to get onto this list is what screws things up. It penalizes people like Leo who brought huge numbers of people onto Twitter. - Robert Scoble

In the case of Twitter (and the example of supporting the celebrities on the recommended users list) I think that twitter is not only screwing the early adopters (and super connectors), but in the process they're screwing the community as a whole. What value are these celebrities actually bringing to the _conversation_ ?? How many people do @iamdiddy or @The_Real_Shaq talk to? How many people do they follow? Just seems wrong all the way around. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

Look at Facebook or friendfeed. Facebook is growing far faster than Twitter is and they didn't need to do a "suggested" list that was made up of Zuckerberg's friends. Neither did friendfeed. Friendfeed's list is algorithmic and is based off of people you've already added. - Robert Scoble

Rob: bing. The thing is Twitter is arrogant. They see all the hype and let it get to their heads and forgot the people who got them there. But, worse, now "little people" like my brother know they have absolutely no chance at getting onto the top tier because they didn't bring Biz Stone cupcakes and aren't already celebrities. So, even if you don't care about A listers or early adopter/super connectors it hurts everyone (and messes with stats that could be used to suggest followers to you, like wefollow). - Robert Scoble

The signal that sends to everyone is quite caustic. - Robert Scoble

Leo and Kevin Rose are the reason I joined Twitter. I respect their recommendations - if they suggest elsewhere I check it out. I was on Pownce before Twitter because of that. I hope Twitter appreciates that. I know I've been treated like crap by Twitter, but I know they don't really care. - Jesse Stay

Jesse: yeah, I forgot that they even treat you like crap and you're a developer. Sigh. What's worse is they probably will go onto make billions. I'll be laughing, though, if the wheels come off the train because of their arrogance. I notice that more and more people are going to Facebook, especially developer and early adopter types and friendfeed is seeing a nice pickup lately. - Robert Scoble

well said Robert - Jeff (the メガマクダジ of FF)

Agreed. Now it seems that your job, and that of others in positions like yours, is to prevent that same arrogance from infecting the other services that you want to see succeed. Like FriendFeed. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

I feel much more welcomed by Facebook. Dave Morin notices me by name in the halls, and goes out of his way to say hi. I get regular announcements via press channels from Facebook. Josh Elman has been wonderful to work with - he talks and listens when you approach him. Their PR department has been through a learning curve, but I think even they are improving and have been much easier to work with. - Jesse Stay

Robert! I haven't seen you this worked up in quite some time, but I agree with your sentiments. I gave up on twitter a while ago because I stopped having meaningful interactions there. Friendfeed on the other hand, and more recently Facebook (as much as it pains me) , have got my attention. Your take on Facebook's potential to take on Google in next gen advertising/marketing is where the next battle will be waged. Consider me among your early adopter crew. Where to next? - Brian Daniel Eisenberg

I'm on the verge of ditching twitter and sticking with FB and FF. The only thing is FF doesn't have a private message feature. If FB/FF were to do a public/private sort of thing where I can have IRL people I know see private info and just people in general who I "friend" online that I don't know see all my public stuff but not my private stuff they will win my eyes. - Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ

Jesse: yeah, isn't that a turnaround? Facebook is much nicer lately. Zuckerberg is a lot more confident, too. He keeps playing the shy kid, but I see him really growing his personal skills. He's definitely THE one to watch in Silicon Valley. Everyone seems to want to work there, the recruiting they are doing now is pretty extreme. - Robert Scoble

FF needs to add more features to lists and allow private info to be shown to certain lists I add people too. That would make me completely switch. FB is so mainstream right now, but I can't import everything I do in the social web like I can with FF. And twitter...well they're like Myspace. Look at what a wasteland Myspace is right now. - Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ

Brian: this is the single worst thing I've seen a startup do to its early supporters. It has pissed off a whole community. Most of whom aren't willing to stand up and say they are pissed, because it looks bad. But they sure changed the dynamic when they did this. - Robert Scoble

Rob: the friendfeed guys are very good at dealing with community. You can see that in how they participate here. Ev and Biz never really participated with Twitter's community. I'm not worried about arrogance here. Over at Facebook they know they are very close to finding a serious gold mine and are staying humble so that they don't miss it. If they get arrogant, it'll be after they figure it out (sort of how Google got arrogant after they did AdSense). - Robert Scoble

I've always been confident about Facebook's development staff and knowledge. I'm not so confident about Twitter's. (Twitter also needs some better Project Management) Facebook's PR and Executive leadership has definitely turned around over the years. I really love what I'm seeing, and right now have a lot of faith in them again. I hope they continue that way. - Jesse Stay

slayerboy: friendfeed has some new stuff coming soon. I haven't seen it yet, but have heard the rumblings. Can't wait to see what they do. - Robert Scoble

I do agree, early adopters mostly are not getting the reward they deserve. The trivia celebrity hype e.g. on Twitter may be the reason for the disappointment early adopters feel and why this debate http://friendfeed.com/e... popped up. - Mark Jacobs

Mark: I don't want a reward, I just want to be treated fairly and equally with everyone else. In other words, if someone who has brought fewer people into the system gets a goodie, I should too. Not saying that there shouldn't be rewards for everyone who participates. - Robert Scoble

i think Jason over @ Social Median did a good job with us early folks. he treated us well and took what we said to heart...ended up making some good changes - Jeff (the メガマクダジ of FF)

Robert, you know what's interesting is that since you're saying it on Twitter or FriendFeed, Ev and Biz will never call you out on it. They seem to only pay attention to blogs. The minute you complain on your blog they notice and demand an apology. I find that interesting considering they run the service they're not even paying attention to. - Jesse Stay

and he also placed us early birds in the "Featured Newsmakers" section on the home page. a nice touch - Jeff (the メガマクダジ of FF)

Jesse: that's cool. Zuckerberg has a Twitter account so he can see what other people are saying about Facebook and respond there. Companies who don't track what's being said about them on all services are not doing a very good job. - Robert Scoble

I think it would be a very interesting experiment if Scobleizer deletes his twitter account. What would the twitter founders react? What about Scobleizer's followers do? etc... - imabonehead

Jeff Social Median is a well-run company. I've been impressed with how they treat people. Makes me want to use their service more. - Robert Scoble

imabonehead: they wouldn't care. That was the point of "would a kitten die?" (Kitten is a metaphor for would Twitter care?) No. Most of my fans have already followed me here on friendfeed anyway (I have 31,000 followers here, which is far more than I had on Twitter a year ago). - Robert Scoble

I think that's one reason Social Median sold in under a year. They are extremely well run, and I still wear their shirt proudly that they sent to me for free, at their own expense. - Jesse Stay

Robert it's funny (and sad) that all of Twitter's competitors are using Twitter to track the conversation about them, but Twitter is not. I think that says something. - Jesse Stay

Robert: I have noticed certainly that Ev & Biz haven't and do not partiipate in their community (in fact that was one of the first things I noticed on Twitter...and thought it strange). I'm glad you feel that way about FriendFeed. I got on here not long after I got onto Twitter, and at your suggestion I might add. I've not been a huge Facebook fan, but like the overall direction of upgrades and changes I use it more and more. I think I see correct decisions being made, despite massive outcries. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

Yo, Jesse: Can you go do a manual refresh of your Twitter feed here so we can talk about your whitelist Q? Sorry to borrow the thread ;-) - Ken Sheppardson

Jesse: Exceptional point. One of the big uses for Twitter is brand protection and customer service. It truly is mind boggling that Twitter itself doesn't jump on that bandwagon. (Especially considering their Direct competitors use it!) - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

It's a hard question. On the one hand, early adopters provide free beta testing, free design ideas and free brutally honest evaluations of your project. On the other hand, it's kinda like the users of Open Source projects demanding a new feature for a product the haven't paid for and then complaining when it doesn't happen! - John Rubier

John: I'm not demanding new features. I'm just asking startups to treat all users fairly (one user who does less on a system should not be treated better than another user who does more). Systems built should be meritocracies, not rewards for bringing the founder cupcakes (or worse). - Robert Scoble

But see part of the problem, Robert, is that life's just not fair. No matter how much longer you or I or been using a service, we're just not as popular as Britney Spears or Ashton Kutcher. It's a pretty classic big fish small pond issue I'd say. - Ken Sheppardson

Ken: if you're more popular than me, that's fair, but the system should treat everyone fairly. If you are less popular than me, the system shouldn't make you more popular just because you brought Biz some cupcakes. The system as it is now is NOT fair because people who had far fewer followers than, say, Leo Laporte, now have far more followers than him because Twitter's founder "picked" them to be popular. - Robert Scoble

If startups were smart they would reward users for engagement, too. But in a fair way that everyone can have access to. The world should move toward meritocracies and away from systems where merit is thrown out the window. - Robert Scoble

Dave: the list is 97.99% of it, yes. The fact that getting on the list is arbitrary has built a system where other services like http://www.wefollow.com are now suggesting people who were picked by Twitter to be popular, not who earned that. For instance, Leo Laporte and Guy Kawasaki and Jason Calacanis had far more followers than other people on the list and now have been passed by. Those three earned their spots on the list, and were snubbed. Not to mention that people like my brother have no chance. - Robert Scoble

Speaking of the article, I helped Beta-test the original Qik iPhone app and even submitted several bugs. They're picking Kevin Rose over me to give the final version to. Should I get Qik for the iPhone more than Kevin Rose since I contributed more to the original product? (Note I'm just posing the question for discussion - I recognize Kevin Rose brings much more to Qik than I ever could) - Jesse Stay

Jesse: I think so. Companies that only go for A listers are blowing it big time (and I give that advice to lots of companies behind the scenes). Go read my corporate blog manifesto. Here, let me go find that for you... - Robert Scoble

http://scoble.weblogs.com/2003... -- note #7 (talk to the grassroots first). - Robert Scoble

Isn't your corporate blog manifesto Naked Conversations? - Jesse Stay

Jesse: I wrote the corporate blog manifesto before I worked at Microsoft and long before Shel and I wrote Naked Conversations. - Robert Scoble

Wow - that's good, sharing it with my Twitter and FriendFeed audience. I never saw that. - Jesse Stay

Companies that bypass their most loyal people over "celebrity" stars are just trying to get the most exposure instead of using the tried and true method of word of mouth. This is how Twitter ORIGINALLY started, by word of mouth. Instead of letting that continue, they shoot themselves in the foot and move "stars" to the forefront. Treat everyone equally and you'll retain and actually gain more people. Show that you have no respect for those that built you, and you'll wonder why you were just a fad. - Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ

That could have been written yesterday and still be applicable. - Jesse Stay

Rewards are typically related to risk. Early adopter risk what? Wasting some of their time? Entrepreneurs put a lot more at risk. Simply grabbing on to someone's passing coattails doesn't qualify you for a reward. - Nathan Wenzel

Nathan: bullshit. I've spent 5,000 hours on Twitter so far and I've pulled my audience from my blog over to Twitter (I have hundreds of thousands of readers per month). That was a HUGE risk to my reputation. In fact, go back and read some of the hate mail I got when I kept talking about Twitter to my blog's audience back two years ago. Many kept asking me to shut up about Twitter. Maybe they had a point. - Robert Scoble

Show that you have no respect for those that built you, and you'll wonder why you were just a fad. - Ben Watson from twhirl

RScoble: easy... Companies are rewarded for their value proposition. You say you have hundreds of thousands of readers per month. That would appear to be your value proposition. If you want to make the argument that companies should reward those who bring them value, I'd agree. If you make the argument that companies should identify their high value customers and make sure those people are happy, I'd agree. But simply being among the first 100 people to sign up doesn't seem to merit much. - Nathan Wenzel

Nathan: It's not just about being the first 100 or 1000 users. It's about putting in the time to make the service viable for a mainstream audience, and it's about using your clout (as in the case with Robert and Leo) to bring additional users to the service. How successful would Twitter be today without some of those "super-connectors" writing about it and adding to the hype? That seems to merit a great deal. Some of the tech-pundits can make or break a site with how & how much they write/speak of it. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

Rob: I agree. The post and my comment was about early adopters. If the post was about "super-connectors" or "evangelists" (a new title I've been seeing a lot lately) then I would have agreed. Do I think Twitter/FF owe people like Robert something? Absolutely. But not because they're an early adopter. Because as you said, they're super-connectors. - Nathan Wenzel

Nathan: people who are early adopters are often also evangelists and super-connectors. That's sort of the same personality type. After all, who would be stupid enough to use Twitter before all their friends were on it? Early adopters. Anyway, I don't want startups to give me anything, I just want them to build features that treat everyone fairly. The world needs more meritocracies. - Robert Scoble

I find it hard to be an early adopter without being the evangelist. If I try an app or a service out, and it's terrible, I don't continue, and don't evangelize. If I like it, especially enough to spend the time to report, diagnose bugs, and provide feedback, I want to see it succeed, & I push the product to all my friends. I may be "little" but it's basically no different than what someone like Robert does (just less press). I want the companies I support to show they value my efforts. Pay it forward & back - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

This conversation gets to the heart of social media and what is meant by community. Once a brand's early adopters build a community, the brand has an obligation to keep the brand promise. When it doesn't, like the automakers didn't by building crappy cars, the community deserts the brand. And then the brand goes bankrupt. So we have to ask "what is Twitter's brand promise and are they keeping it" before talking about early adopters and how they are treated. This is a big, important discussion. - Francine Hardaway from BuddyFeed

My expectation is almost always as an early adopter I will eventually be alienated by the service I helped. I use, I promote, I provide feedback (and being in the tech profession my feedback is not unuseful). Like most people; I do this to improve the service I am using, or eliminate the headaches I'm living in it. The most heartless version of being alienated is when a service decides they will now become a pay service and not grandfather their early customer base into the service, even for a year or two. - Keith Barrett

So why does this seem wrong? Because the reality is that the company could NOT have gotten where it was without the early adopters. There's no way they would ever have had the resources or staff to perform the debugging, promotion, customer growth, or eventual press without that FREE public participation. - Keith Barrett

Robert is absolutely right expecting brands to respect the contributions of those who got them off the ground. They make a cardinal error in snubbing those people because they ARE still bringing in new users and keeping existing users there. Those users are more likely to keep using the system unlike the fad group that creates an account because Oprah mentioned Twitter and never uses it. If they were really wise they would seek out and support their evangelists - even those much smaller than Leo and Robert! - Internet Strategist