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American › Comments

Sean McBride
Annie Robbins finally shows her hand on censoring discussion on the relations between Judaism and Zionism
Annie Robbins: - Sean McBride
"hi sean, i’m done moderating your comments in this thread because i’m not qualified to judge where attacking a religion (or claiming it’s insignificant and completely consumed by a political construct) crosses the line into attacking the worshipers of a that religion given my repulsion for your determination to insist judaism is completely consumed by zionism, or whatever it is you... more... - Sean McBride
She is trying to moderate a topic about which she is completely ignorant -- she can't put together two coherent ideas on it. - Sean McBride
We'll see if this clears: - Sean McBride
BEGIN COMMENT - Sean McBride
oldgeezer wrote: - Sean McBride
"It’s a bit silly to see adherents of Judaism as a monolithic block, and say their religion is the problem, just as it is silly to lump Protestants and Catholics together as one." - Sean McBride
No one here has said that all adherents of Judaism comprise a monolithic block that supports Zionism. The argument is that *all* of the leading organizations of the Jewish religious establishment strongly support Zionism (apparently, now, even including the American Council of Judaism) -- and that they have combined Judaism and Zionism into a single ideological package. It's a gigantic... more... - Sean McBride
These religious organizations and leaders merit as much reasonable criticism as Christian Zionist groups. - Sean McBride
END COMMENT - Sean McBride
Not yet cleared: - Sean McBride
BEGIN COMMENT - Sean McBride
lysias, - Sean McBride
<blockquote> Two roads diverged in a wood… One descendant of ancient Judaism, Christianity, gave the Old Testament a universalist interpretation. The other major one, Rabbinic Judaism, gave it a tribal, exclusivist interpretation until the Enlightenment, when it too gave the Bible a universalist interpretation. Until Israel was founded and Zionism swamped universalizing Judaism. </blockquote> - Sean McBride
That is one of the best brief summaries I've seen of the history of Judaism yet. - Sean McBride
Judaism had a brief moment of universalism during its Enlightenment phase (which was inspired primarily by European, not Jewish thought leaders, like Voltaire, Diderot and Jefferson), and then, with the emergence of Zionism, quickly sank back into narrow ethnocentrism and tribalism -- which is where Judaism stands in the year 2014. Even the formerly anti-Zionist American Council of... more... - Sean McBride
The crisis of Zionism is really the crisis of Judaism and Jewish civilization in general. The ability of Zionists to communicate with the rest of the world is rapidly deteriorating because, in an Aspergery way, they have little respect or empathy for the concerns of outgroups -- for the human race at large -- for modern universalism. - Sean McBride
Quite a few progressives seem to be in denial about what is going on -- including progressive Jewish anti-Zionists. They really don't differ that much from liberal Zionists in their insistence on clinging on to sentimental beliefs that don't match up with reality. - Sean McBride
END COMMENT - Sean McBride
Ah, it turns out that Annie deleted this comment outright -- she can't hold up her end of the debate, per usual -- so she relies on censorship to try to muddle through: - Sean McBride
BEGIN COMMENT - Sean McBride
Annie, - Sean McBride
I pointed out to jon s that the racist, bigoted, violent, ethnocentric, nationalist and genocidal passages in the Torah/Old Testament greatly outnumber the vague, feel-good universalist passages, and that many contemporary religious AND secular Zionists use those hate-filled passages (certainly hate-filled by the standards of contemporary civilization) to rationalize and justify Israeli and Zionist policies. - Sean McBride
When you read texts, you need to study them *whole*, with all the parts in context and in proportion. I've read the Old Testament carefully from beginning to end at least five times, in combination with a great deal of critical analysis. I urge everyone here to read it all the way through at least *once* to understand why that work acquired such a bad reputation among Enlightenment and universalist thinkers -- they were appalled by it. - Sean McBride
Many people who haven't actually read the Old Testament, but who have only heard bits and snatches of it from popular culture, are shocked and horrified when they do. - Sean McBride
Christianity arose as a universalist and progressive revolt against the narrow tribalism and nationalism of the Judaism of that era. Compare the flavor and tone of the Old Testament and New Testament regarding tribalism and universalism. Reform Judaism, which was an Enlightenment product, emerged from a similar perspective on ancient Judaism -- like Christianity, it was created in the... more... - Sean McBride
END COMMENT - Sean McBride
And Annie Robbins is now also deleting my replies to Mooser -- giving him an open field to engage in attacks without rebuttal: - Sean McBride
BEGIN COMMENT - Sean McBride
Mooser, - Sean McBride
I told you clearly that I don't think there are any available solutions to the problem of Zionism in a historical era in which Zionism and Judaism have merged into a single ethno-religious nationalist ideology and captured the minds and emotions of Jewish establishment leaders lock, stock and barrel, with little effective resistance or opposition from the Jewish community at large. - Sean McBride
All one can do is try to make reasonable predictions. What I foresee is an increasing collapse of relations between the Zionist world and the rest of the world -- there is nothing I can do about it. What do you propose? What do you foresee? - Sean McBride
As I mentioned before, I would expect a fair number of Jews to disaffiliate from the Zionist organizations (nearly *all* Jewish organizations) which are creating so much social and political friction with "the nations." Many of them just want to get along like the rest of us in modern Western democratic nations which care about universalist values. - Sean McBride
END COMMENT - Sean McBride
So much for the vigorous and informed "war of ideas" on Mondoweiss -- it's a rigged game. - Sean McBride
I just noticed that Annie has deleted yet another comment that had already been cleared: - Sean McBride
BEGIN COMMENT - Sean McBride
jon s, - Sean McBride
Don't the passages commanding ethnic cleansing or genocide outnumber the universalist passages to a considerable degree? - Sean McBride
For instance: - Sean McBride
Deuteronomy, chapter 7: <blockquote> When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you— and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy... more... - Sean McBride
Surely you must see the parallels here with the attitudes of quite a few Israeli settlers and religious Zionists? - Sean McBride
END COMMENT - Sean McBride
It's fascinating that Bill Maher on mainstream TV (HBO) discusses (and roasts) the violent themes in the Bible on a regular basis -- but that conversation is too hot to handle for Mondoweiss. - Sean McBride
Been decades since I read the Old Testament and New Testament (in school theology classes) but my impression was God in Old Testament was a violent and punishing God whereas in the New Testament God was forgiving and merciful. The Old was jewish scriptures, the New was Jesus. The Old Testament was Jews as tribe and against the nations - and God in OT very vengeful and violent against enemies---- sounds lot like zionism. - American
I had to laugh at the guy who said the Exodus could be seen as a 'universal' theme of Judaism. Liberation and all that. LOL. - American
American -- of course, what you say is precisely true -- but even these simple concepts, which anyone with even a passing familiarity with the history of Judaism and Christianity understands, are going right over the head of Annie Robbins. If Phil Weiss and Adam Horowitz back up Annie's charge that discussing these issues is "antisemitic," I think it will be time to write off Mondoweiss as a lost cause. Perhaps Jerry Slater had it right about Robbins all along -- the basic complaint: not very bright. - Sean McBride
What did Slater say about her? - American
Slater had problems with the generally mediocre, sloppy and uninformed quality of her thinking and writing, as I recall. One wonders why Phil Weiss and Adam Horowitz permit her to represent Mondoweiss so prominently. Her posts are a mess -- and usually angry and overwrought. - Sean McBride
Everything you really need to know about Zionism can be found in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy and Joshua -- it's all there -- the basic ultra-nationalist myths, memes and themes -- fleshed out by the other books in the Old Testament. I strongly doubt that Robbins has read a single book in the lot. - Sean McBride
A moderator should not let their 'personal opinions' and 'personalities' dictate what they moderate. - American
Robbins has corrupted and degraded the comments section. She is using it as her soapbox, exercising control and censorship to prop up her personal (and often uninformed) opinions. But the buck stops with Phil Weiss -- he has permitted this situation to go on and fester for quite a few months now. - Sean McBride
In the golden age of MW, no one got in the way of vigorous debates expressing a wide range of views -- moderators were careful not to interfere with the natural flow of conversation of commenters. They didn't try to impose their point of view on the comments section as a whole. She is rather a despot and tyrant by temperament -- she revels in wielding what little power MW affords her. - Sean McBride
I wrote this last Saturday in a private message: "Annie has gradually come to believe that Mondoweiss is her personal blog -- and she has become increasingly bossy, opinionated and erratic in her management of the comments section." - Sean McBride
I am totally not joining you Sean in this tirade against Annie. frankly, if not for her, there would probably be no comment section at all at MW. If you want to rail against Annie, you will lose me. vendettas by anyone against anything are not my cup of tea. We lost over time many comment sections. haaretz's Talkback was one of the best ever and it's gone. The Guardian CiF was excellent and it's now severly curtailed. If MW will go by the way of HuffPo et al, that's something we have all expected. - Danaa
No one, as in NO ONE awes any of us a platform fro carrying out our favorite discourses/debates etc. IF MW does not wish you to carry on, especially in light of the OBVIOUS disinclination of the site to be a vehicle for any one particular debate, then you may just have to accept this and move on. - Danaa
On this feed, you can exercise whatever editorial control you wish. You can block people, you can engage with them on any topic, or not. It6's your feed and your choice. But on MW you are one commenter out of many., and if they don't want to go on and on in one particular direction that's important to you, then that's their choice. You can complain to the editors, and you can complain... more... - Danaa
I will repeat again - without Annie there's no comment section, period. She does the lion share of moderating for virtually no compensation. They'll never find another one like her willing to work countless hours on a thankless task for nearly nothing. That's the reality. It seems to me, sean, that you would rather destroy what's left of the comment section than to have your special... more... - Danaa
One more thing - I took note of your second comment above, the one you said was deleted. At some future time of my choosing I will make a similar comment, just as I have in the past. I bet you it'll clear. I told you it's personal - it's you personally they don't want to engage with on this topic. may be the way you approach it is a bit pointed and ascerbic. may be you telegraph too... more... - Danaa
Several times you described Mooser here as "not very bright" also. It could be he took note of that and decided engaging with you is for the birds. Now you called Annie all but "stupid", even dusting off good old Slater to back your denigration (why, if Slater said it he must be right, eh? after all, we all admired Slater, didn't we?). Now I'm beginning to wonder about things. Lots of things. But one thing i won't wonder about is why Annie prefers to give you a pass. - Danaa
I can't help but wonder now - was it your purpose to derail the MW comment section altogether just because it did not live up to your expectations? if it'll be no more, will you feel vindicated? is that what you were after all along? - Danaa
I have settled the argument for everyone ----->American December 17, 2014, 12:45 am '' Judaism is Zionism- Zionism is Judaism Yes it is– No its not. Anyone can find 1000s of articles by Jews and Rabbis claiming it is and claiming it isn’t. And all of them on both sides quoting this and that from the Old Testament to prove it. So its crystal clear that Judaism is Zionism for some of them... more... - American
Cause that's the truth.lol - American
<<We lost over time many comment sections. haaretz's Talkback was one of the best ever and it's gone. The Guardian CiF was excellent and it's now severly curtailed. If MW will go by the way of HuffPo et al, that's something we have all expected.>> ~Danaa. ....... ;....... It's nice that MW restored the comment period's length.. Too bad they had the unwieldy redesign though. - WJones
Danaa -- the Mondoweiss comments section could easily survive the departure of Annie Robbins -- there are any number of people out there who are better educated than Annie, more literate, have more analytical minds and better editorial judgment, and who would be eager to lend a hand. Annie more than anyone else is responsible for the steep decline of the quality of MW comments -- she is... more... - Sean McBride
One begins to wonder: are there any significant differences between many Likud Zionists, liberal Zionists and progressive anti-Zionists? Many progressive anti-Zionists are no more able to deal honestly and objectively with the ideological roots of Zionism than Elliott Abrams, Michael Ledeen or Benjamin Netanyahu. It's all about emotionally circling the tribal wagon in all circumstances. - Sean McBride
To the main questions I addressed to Phil Weiss and Allan Brownfeld in the "Yes, Virginia" post, still no answers, no serious thinking of any kind. It's no wonder that progressive anti-Zionists have not made the slightest impact on affecting the power of the Israel lobby -- they are afraid to address the question of what sustains that power. In their gatekeeping function on this issue they are as much enablers of Zionism and the Israeli government as liberal Zionists (and even Likud Zionists). - Sean McBride
Danaa -- your instinctive inclination repeatedly has been to side with Mooser and Annie Robbins in their efforts to censor informed discussion about the role of Judaism and the Jewish religious establishment in empowering Zionism. It's difficult to reconcile this behavior with your many critiques of Judaism and support for Gilad Atzmon. I am still trying to understand the strange self-contradictions here. - Sean McBride
Danaa -- Annie has severely damaged the comments section by flooding it with her opinions (most of them written in mangled and confused prose), while at the same time moderating the section with a heavy hand to manipulate and rig discussions and debates in her favor. Really -- the situation is ridiculous. Phil sets high standards for MW in his lead articles. Annie has muddled and muddied the MW brand. I am surprised you can't see it. - Sean McBride
Danaa -- Phil in his lead articles has often shown a strong curiosity and open-mindedness about discussing the Judaism/Zionism issue in a bold and frank way. Instead of encouraging Annie Robbins and Mooser in their worst tendencies you should instead be encouraging Phil Weiss in his best tendencies. After all, it's his blog -- not Annie's or Mooser's. This is a conversation he has the... more... - Sean McBride
Annie is making a bit of progress: "anyway, i am rambling. i’m in the odd position of protecting judaism or islam or whatever. i’ve asked someone else to step in and make these decisions on this thread. it’s over my head." http://mondoweiss.net/2014... The operative words: "it's over my head." - Sean McBride
Sean, your personal vendetta is kind of getting a bit stale. It's all about you being "smarter" than others and has absolutely nothing to do with whatever issue you are into. If you were arguing about the fact that night follows day and insisting the people debate the issue with you, it would be the same. You came across as obssessive with an ax to grind. Given your over-aggressive tactics, I am not sure I would want you to be the one carrying on the argument. - Danaa
I honestly think the issue of Judaism vs zionism matters to you a hill of beans. Only being right matters to you. I hope you enjoy the thin airs of your eternal scintillating brilliance. keep calling everyone stupid and see how far that gets you on the popularity scale. I now see you are, in fact, much like pepsi in argumentation style - keep beating the same theme to death long after everyone else left to find greener pastures. perhaps the two of you are not so different after all. - Danaa
Danaa -- you've got this backwards -- Annie and Mooser have consistently been the aggressors in these exchanges -- and you have consistently defended them. Regarding the range of my interests concerning Mideast politics -- look at this feed -- it covers a wide variety of angles on the subject, not just the religious angle. In fact, I think the cyber angle is much more interesting than the religious angle -- but few people at MW are equipped to discuss it. - Sean McBride
The only side I am siding with is civility and knowing when you are hurting rather than helping your side of the argument. As I said before - IT IS NOT THE TOPIC BUT YOU PERSONALLY that people don't wish to debate or carry on with because your style is too obssessive compulsive. Just like our debates about Twitter - you never heard or acknowledged a thing I said about the pointlessness... more... - Danaa
There is no Judaism vs. Zionism issue now -- they are one and the same thing, according to the leading authorities on Judaism. Anyone involved in debates about Israel is now involved in controversies about Zionism and Judaism simultaneously whether they know it or not or like it or not. - Sean McBride
There you are again, describing people at MW as "not equipped" with this that or the other. most of us believe that if you think MW is not "up to your lofty standards" then perhaps another venue is what the doctor ordered. You should find people who share your standards to debate with. If they are not at MW I'm sure they are somewhere. May be you could start your own blog and call it... more... - Danaa
Danaa -- regarding Twitter and Big Data: I addressed your remarks in a substantive way and you never replied to my points. Sophisticated Internet users know how to mine Twitter and other social media to automatically extract high-quality editorial content with minimum effort. It's a powerful tool for those who know how to use it. It greatly reduces noise and increases signal -- it... more... - Sean McBride
I confess -- I like bright minds and bright people. That is what drew me to Glenn Greenwald's and Philip Weiss's blogs, and their early communities of commenters -- lots of fascinating and useful conversations there. I suspect you were drawn to those blogs for the same reasons. What has been disappointing is to see the gradual decline in the quality of conversation on MW. But this may be the fate of all great discussion forums -- they eventually lose steam and burn out. - Sean McBride
It's the simple truth: if the MW folks were "well-equipped" regarding cutting-edge information technologies, they wouldn't have permitted an outside company to degrade the quality of the Mondoweiss site. And generally I've noticed that Phil and Adam haven't taken much interest in the details of the Greenwald/Snowden revelations about the technologies being currently wielded by NSA,... more... - Sean McBride
That is why I posted this article today -- "National Cybersecurity Center of Excellence improving security in US, Israel" https://friendfeed.com/mondowe... -- which one of my data mining tools pushed to the top of the queue for me. - Sean McBride
What I like about Glenn Greenwald, among other things -- he's not a gearhead by nature, but he has worked hard to wrap his mind around important technical issues that are foundational for contemporary politics. Good for him -- that lad has grit. That is why his collaboration with Edward Snowden produced powerful revelations that shook the world. He dug in and learned about the technology. (One can imagine how much it hurt his head to master the personal cryptographic system that Snowden taught him. :)) - Sean McBride
Well I'll be damned....Mooser is still stalking and making unsolicited comments on my 'one' comment regarding letting Jews settle the Zionism -Judaism divide/question. And he's getting uglier and uglier. He even has to slam Presbyterians ------------->Mooser.December 17, 2014, 2:17 pm....''....And oh yeah, I forgot to mention, all kinds of different Protestants, so many I certainly... more... - American
I noticed -- rolled my eyes. - Sean McBride
There is a quality of out-of-control dementia in many of these posts -- the endless stream of drivel -- and of course the over-the-top narcissism -- the voices in his head are always clattering away -- the tone is usually mean and cutting. Psychological issues. Tics. - Sean McBride
In every case of my 3 run ins with Mooser his attack on me on the basis of my 'gentile' opinions and implying I am anti Semitic or stereotyping Jews.As I said before it is impossible for people like that to understand that people can regard Jews as differing 'individuals' and still recognize that they often act as a 'collective' force. I see nothing contradictory in holding those two... more... - American
The vibe he puts out when he goes into Terminator mode is that he has sniffed out Amalek. - Sean McBride
Sean "Sophisticated Internet users know how to mine Twitter and other social media to automatically extract high-quality editorial content with minimum effort. It's a powerful tool for those who know how to use it.". You say I don't get "it", and I'm telling you the "it" does not interest me. I have you to mine the news for me, and if it weren't you it'd be someone else. I am not a paid... more... - Danaa
OK, interlude over. Gotta go back to what's pressing..... - Danaa
Well I am just going to say one more thing about Mooser then i am done with him. The first run in I ever had with him was on a thread where people were discussing something about Jews, how they were kept down in ancient days, and someone said something about Jews being in the financial world, on WS, etc... I made the comment that more Jews going into banking, WS and etc instead of... more... - American
American, everything you said about the reasons Jewish people were in the money trade is true. That is exactly How I learnt about the history of the Jews. Also no one in Europe would object to your statements at all. the problem with Mooser was on two levels; (1) he figured out you were not jewish so therefore saying "Jewish" and "money" in the same sentence was verbotten, and (2) he is... more... - Danaa
Sorry for the history "lesson" - I didn't mean to lecture, but I am sharing my experience as a one who came to this country as a foreigner and was astounded to find out how little people knew about history of, say, Europe. And that included some of the most learned jews I met. That includes Phil himself. Only in history departments you find knowledgeable people. So Mooser, to bring the... more... - Danaa
Anyways, i take all this into account when I talk to people like Annie or mooser or keith or even Slater. I see no point (though once i may have) of denouncing people as ignoramuses, having become cognizant of just how ignorant I am about things I learnt nothing about. that being said, it's true that I get treated better than you or Sean. Benefit of the doubt, tribal "status" and all... more... - Danaa
My own suggestion is: get a blog going that's run by a mix of jewish and not jewish editors. Not easy but all it takes is two, one on each side who are open minded and have the kind of non-ascerbic personality on-line that would attract others. Phil, whatever people think about him, simply brought an attractive personality to the I/P debates - who wouldn't want to have dinner with him? who wouldn't be willing to even pay for dinner. So there - this is what it's all about. personality first, debates later. - Danaa
Danaa -- I hear you loud and clear on your views on social media mining, and I respect them. We all process information in our unique and idiosyncratic ways -- and thank God for that. I like social media mining precisely because I value my time -- it permits me to scoop up the most valuable new information for me personally in the least amount of time and with the least amount of... more... - Sean McBride
Danaa -- I also appreciate you being so forthright and forceful in expressing your opinions about the Annie/Mooser situation -- why beat around the bush about your views? :) Neither of us is shy about expressing our opinions and I like that -- it cuts through the bullshit nice and quick -- and eventually things get sorted out one way or the other. I wouldn't waste time in discussions... more... - Sean McBride
Wrt to the tug of war with Annie, my held-up posts were cleared -- I assume either by Phil or Adam -- which is what I expected would happen. - Sean McBride
Danaa, no I dont mind the imput. But it mystifies me that so many Jews on MW who are so into the Jewish subject seem to have no real historical knowledge at all about actual Jewish history. Next to my fiction addiction, I am a history fan, not expert, but read a lot about different eras and countries that come up on my radar screen--so when I got involved on MW, where the theme is very... more... - American
American
Oh Look...Obama found his balls..
''Today, following successful diplomacy to secure the release of U.S. citizen Alan Gross, President Obama announced that he's moving to restore full diplomatic relations with Cuba and to ease the half-century U.S. embargo on Cuba. President Obama called on Congress to end the embargo completely, referring to the embargo as a failure. [1] [2] Not surprisingly, Republicans like Senator Marco Rubio are attacking the President's diplomatic initiative. [3] That's why we're pushing back immediately, urging Americans to contact Congress in support of President Obama's diplomacy. You can sign our petition to Congress here: http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/act... - American
American
http://mondoweiss.net/2014... Israel will lose all American Jews but the crazies--- Philip Weiss
Weiss - '' I predict an open uprising in the American Jewish community in the next few weeks before the election. - American
Well the crazies happen to be the ones in charge of all the Israel -US and Jewish bizness. - American
American
Republican Kasich Forces Public Schools To Partner with Religion Or Lose Taxpayer Funding http://www.politicususa.com/2014...
'' Obviously, there are Christian extremists in America who believe, like the Islamic State extremists, that it is the government’s duty to force religious instruction on public schools, and this week, Ohio Governor John Kasich made that “religious extremist duty” mandatory in Ohio. Kasich issued a statement through a spokesman informing Ohio schools that if they fail to align with Christian organizations, they will lose funding. It should disabuse any American of the idea that this sad country is exceptional; unless they consider theocracy a la ISIS exceptional - American
'' Kasich’s theocratic initiative is part and parcel of the religious right fundamentalists’ “Onward Christian Soldier” campaign to eradicate “deviant schools and replace them with institutions that will propagate Christian family values by issuing government edicts that all education will be handed over to the church,” and funded with taxpayer dollars. It is now the law in Ohio that... more... - American
Well why the hell not?...taxpayers are already funding Jewish religious schools and colleges with grants. Are there any politicians that have a gd grain of sense or any respect for the Constitution? - American
American
iya.net/en/News/middle-east/2014/12/17/EU-court-orders-Hamas-removal-from-terror-blacklist.html EU court orders Hamas removal from terror list
''The European Union’s second highest court annulled on Wednesday the bloc's decision to keep Hamas on a list of terrorist organizations, but temporarily maintained the measures for a period of three months or until an appeal was closed. - American
'' The 2001 listing of Hamas was based not on sound legal judgments but on “factual imputations derived from the press and the Internet,” a statement from the General Court of the European Union read. - American
'' Hamas’s military wing was added to the European Union’s first-ever terrorism blacklist drawn up in December 2001 in the wake of the September 11 attacks on the United States - American
Adding Hamas to the terrorist list because of 911 was nothing but more of the US Zionist/Israel cabal hokey shit to begin with. So absurd. - American
I am still having problems so sometimes the link takes and sometimes it doesnt. - American
Here is the working link: http://english.alarabiya.net/en... Your link above was truncated at the beginning. - Sean McBride
If you ever have tech questions, just ask here in the public feed. And I am still happy to help out Taxi with her FF problems if she wants the help. - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
Mooser asked: what can be done to uncouple Judaism from Zionism?
One thing that can be done: encourage Jewish religious leaders in *public conversations* to begin drawing clear lines between Judaism and Zionism -- to explain to the world where they differ. But have we reached a point in which those leaders no longer believe that there any differences between Judaism and Zionism? Game over? - Sean McBride
Censoring the debate over this issue is probably not going to solve the problem. - Sean McBride
Btw, Mooser just posted a surprising batch of smart comments in which he reveals that he *does* understand -- fully -- the problematic relations between Judaism and Zionism. One wonders why he spent so much effort pretending that he didn't understand. - Sean McBride
In reply to your puzzlement - Mooser understands quite a bit. He just didn't like you personally because of your over-aggressive and condescending on-line persona in debates. I told you before like three dozen times that Mooser has the zionism/Judaism angle figured out just fine. It's just that you haven't been reading his posts to others with the attention they deserved, even as you... more... - Danaa
Danaa -- I couldn't begin to match Mooser for aggression, bullying, insults, arrogance, etc. -- that's his specialty. But for some reason you are willing to overlook that behavior. And you continue to get it backwards -- Mooser pursued me -- I didn't pursue him. When the critique of Jewish religious Zionism first emerged on MW, Mooser lost his wit and humor and went all Terminator --grim as death. The archives tell the tale. - Sean McBride
Danaa, sorry but Mooser is a asshole imo. And his witty little attacks on people have gotten old and arent amusing any more. He literally 'stalks' people he doesn't like with his' interpretations' on what they've said. So it doesnt matter what he understands, its his mouth and attitude that makes him an asshole. He's had his three strikes with me and I never respond to him and ignore... more... - American
American, understand you don't care for Mooser and neither does Sean. All I'm saying is to just avoid engaging with him, that's all. Some on-line personas rub people the wrong way and frankly, it would be surprising if they didn't as that's what happens in 'real" life too. There are lots of people i don't care to engage with. So what else is new? All I was saying is that sean and Mooser... more... - Danaa
Danaa -- I tried to avoid exchanges with Mooser, but he kept coming at me -- and he is still doing so now -- as of today -- he just called me a "right-wing mouth-breather" on MW. I never called him "stupid" -- I pointed out that he rarely posts interesting documentary material in his posts, with cites -- as do most of the best commenters on MW. I most prize *knowledge-based* commenters like Hostage, whose posts are sorely missed. - Sean McBride
Danaa, let me say again that "I dont engage with Mooser'' or even respond to him-- BUT that does not prevent his addressing and stalking my comments. So in my case the problem is in him. I scanned MW articles and 100 comments this am for any developments and noticed his comment on my comment that the Judaism is or isnt Zionism debate is best left to the Jews to settle . This was his... more... - American
American -- since Danaa hasn't been the target of obsessive stalking by Mooser, as we have been, she may not have noticed what is going on. And we are not the only targets who have been subjected to this abusive treatment -- other users have complained about it. - Sean McBride
My personal policy is to avoid all feuds with other commenters -- they are a waste of time -- that is why I stopped engaging with hophmi. The only reason I keep engaging with Annie is because time and again she has interfered in my conversations with other MW users in a highly aggressive way. I have definitely had the feeling of being stalked by her -- often by her in combination with Mooser -- they act as a tag team. - Sean McBride
American -- quickly scanning the most recent 100 comments on MW -- I see at least 15 by Mooser. Total comments posted by Mooser to date: nearly 20,000. http://mondoweiss.net/profile... A high percentage of them have insulted the intelligence of other MW commenters -- essentially dismissing them as morons. - Sean McBride
Just quit commenting. I think I've made 3 comments in 2 weeks on MW anyway. I really have nothing much to add to MW and I am not that into all the Jewish debates. I've started relying more on twitter with Max, Greenwald, Walt and others, to pick up on news blips. I noticed some important news about Hamas this am on Max's twitter, I'll post it above. - American
American -- that is a *smart* use of Twitter -- you are quickly skimming the cream of daily commentary on Israel and Mideast politics. Many of those Twitter links point to valuable long-form articles and essays -- one click and voila. The trick is to find the best feeds to follow. - Sean McBride
Mondoweiss on Friendfeed
Yes, Virginia, there is a liberal Zionist - http://mondoweiss.net/2014...
Allan Brownfeld explains that Liberal Zionism has never existed, because Zionism was always based on an illiberal idea, denying the Palestinian presence and removing indigenous people from the land
What liberal Zionists do to others in the name of ethnic nationalism can be done to them -- and no doubt will be done. - Sean McBride
"Run don’t walk to read this article in the Washington Report for Middle East Affairs: “Lamenting the Decline of ‘Liberal Zionism’ Is Futile—Since It Never Really Existed.” In which Allan Brownfeld of the American Council for Judaism explains that the crisis liberal Zionists are experiencing today over anti-democratic trends in Israel is actually the collapse of their own illusions: these liberal Zionists should have recognized long ago that the ideology they embraced was illiberal at its core." - Sean McBride
"Those who believe that Israel is now in the process of abandoning its founding philosophy of “liberal Zionism” are engaged in a futile enterprise, for that “liberal” Zionism never existed—it is simply a convenient myth. They have not confronted a contrary thesis—one supported by history—that Zionism was flawed from the beginning, not only by ignoring the existing indigenous Palestinian population, but by rejecting the dominant spiritual history and essence of Judaism." - Sean McBride
c; Moshe Sharett quote; "We have come to conquer a country from a people inhabiting it…the land must be ours alone." - Sean McBride
"Those who look at Israel’s current policies, such as continued construction and settlement of the occupied territories, are wrong to blame the country’s right wing. Labor and Likud Israeli governments alike have advanced the occupation. Both right- and left-wing Israelis, apparently, are comfortable with the status quo. Those who lament what they think is the decline—or end—of “liberal... more... - Sean McBride
BEGIN COMMENT - Sean McBride
Allan Brownfeld wrote: <blockquote> 1. ... by rejecting the dominant spiritual history and essence of Judaism ... 2. ... turned its back on the Jewish universal spiritual tradition ... </blockquote> - Sean McBride
Could Allan Brownfeld, or anyone here, provide the names of some key Jewish religious authors and works, outside of Enlightenment non-nationalist Reform Judaism (which has turned out to be a small historical blip in the big scheme of things), that give voice to "the Jewish universal spiritual tradition" and "the dominant spiritual history and essence of Judaism"? Some key quotes? The Torah is an intensely tribalist and nationalist ideological document -- one fully consistent with contemporary Zionism. - Sean McBride
Any good quotes? - Sean McBride
How does Brownfeld's interpretation of Judaism jibe with that of Israel Shahak or Yehoshafat Harkabi? - Sean McBride
Where is the "universalism," for instance, in Maimonides? - Sean McBride
There are deeply grounded cultural and ideological reasons for why the Jewish religious establishment has embraced Zionism with such enthusiasm -- and why it continues to double down on Zionism decade after decade, crisis after crisis. Until that complex of ideas is fully investigated, untangled and understood, it is going to be difficult to change a critical mass of Jewish minds about the rightness and righteousness of Zionism. - Sean McBride
END COMMENT - Sean McBride
Once again, Phil himself has introduced the subject of Judaism on Mondoweiss -- and is promoting the familiar theme that Zionism is an anomalous and illegitimate deviation from Judaism. I don't think that is an argument that can withstand a fair intellectual challenge based on reading aright the foundational documents of Judaism for the past few millennia. - Sean McBride
BEGIN COMMENT - Sean McBride
One can untangle and bring clarity to this subject by assembling two collections of quotes: - Sean McBride
1. universalist quotes by leading Jewish religious thinkers - Sean McBride
2. anti-universalist, ethnocentric, nationalist, racist, tribalist and xenophobic quotes by leading Jewish religious thinkers - Sean McBride
Which stream of thinking has exerted the greatest influence on Judaism as a whole over the last few millennia -- and especially during the last half century? - Sean McBride
END COMMENT - Sean McBride
I would be interested in pursuing this discussion with Phil Weiss and Allan Brownfeld -- not Mooser or Annie Robbins. - Sean McBride
Danaa -- once again check out Mooser's behavior on Mondoweiss -- he is initiating discussion with me -- I am not initiating discussion with him. And his comment to me is entirely without substance. Clearly any criticism of Judaism gets under his skin -- but he is unable to explain precisely why. - Sean McBride
BEGIN COMMENT - Sean McBride
Another question for Allan Brownfeld: - Sean McBride
Within Judaism, the Ultra-Orthodox, Satmar and Neturei Karta represent the main (and perhaps) only anti-Zionist streams. In what way are they universalists? - Sean McBride
END COMMENT - Sean McBride
Interesting -- Mondoweiss deleted my first comment above -- which struck me as being perfectly reasonable and civil. Why? But it approved the second comment. Mondoweiss appears to be highly conflicted and inconsistent about this subject. - Sean McBride
TIf Mooser is initiating something you don't need to respond. Do you respond to every commenter on this or any other subject? why do you care so much what Mooser says? do you take on Hophmi all the time? or every comment Annie makes? I must say that your comments come across to me as needling. however much you read on the subject you are not a religious jew so it is not your faith or... more... - Danaa
just be glad I am not putting up this comment on MW. that would really bring "them" (whoever they are) out of the wood works. - Danaa
Danaa -- what is important to me are the destructive effects that this ideology is having on my country -- the United States. Asking reasonable questions about the ideology in question is not "needling" -- it's an attempt to get at the bottom of what is driving this ideology and political movement. Phil posted an article citing Allan Brownfeld which, once again, addressed the... more... - Sean McBride
Danaa -- you seem to be arguing that one has to be a religious Jew to ask questions about Judaism and religious Zionism. By that reasoning, it would be improper for Jews to raise questions about Christianity, Islam or any other non-Jewish religion. And in any case, the focus of the discussion here is about *politics* -- not religion -- about the ways in which religious believers are... more... - Sean McBride
Whatever you would like Brownfeld to do he is not going to do it and there's no way you can force it. just because you want someone to come out and debate you or explain their position, they will only if they want to. My suggestion would be to find him on his own blog or whatever perch he is on and have him take it up there - if he wants to. The emphasis here is on "want". - Danaa
what i don't understand is why you insist they (whoever0 debate an issue with YOU. For whatever reason they don't want to have that discussion specifically with you. The more you insist, the less likely they are to take up your question. May be you could get someone else to raise it? or perhaps accept that everyone basically agrees there's a problem in the Judaism/zionism department and somehow those who care about judaism (which is not you and is certainly not me) need to resolve it for themselves. - Danaa
Sure what jews do affects others. But you want to argue something that that they don't want to argue WITH YOU about. I keep telling you they ain't gonna pick up the glove as much as you want to duel it out. If I were you I would take it personally, and make decisions accordingly. Perhaps there is a legal instrument you could use to force them to come out and debate/discuss/explain whatever. - Danaa
Now look what you did Sean - you brought out pepsi! now we can all have fun together, can't we? - Danaa
Well, the logjam seems to have broken -- the debate is proceeding on MW. :) - Sean McBride
I looked at the comments. I've said this before----I rarely see any Jews who actually have a true and factual understanding of Jewish history and I think it is because they rely on Jewish writers who write 'only' about Jews. Therefore they get only a Jewish interpretation' of world history, events, the Jews place in it and etc.. They should read some 'straight' world history books by... more... - American
What is most frustrating in trying to discuss the tribe, Jews, zionism or anything related with them is they do not understand how a person (or critics) can hold two views at the same time. There is nothing contradictory about treating or regarding Jews as 'individuals' and at the same time recognizing that Jews often act as a tribe or 'collective'. - American
I can easily agree with what you say American regarding views of history. In Israel in particular we got strictly a jewish viewpoint of history's larger events. For example, we really studied only history of places and countries where jews were at one point or another, and only those periods when they actually lived in the land. examples are Poland and Russia. We got very little Russian... more... - Danaa
ChasMark -- interesting essay on Machiavelli. You should post it on GFTG or your personal feed. - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
Mooser and Annie Robbins on Mondoweiss are still trying to obstruct and censor discussion about the ideological linkages between Judaism and Zionism.
And Annie Robbins is continuing to try to protect Mooser from being challenged about his views on Judaism and Zionism -- whenever this topic comes up, she interjects herself between Mooser and me -- really strange behavior. Mooser hides trembling behind her skirts -- he loses his tongue. - Sean McBride
On the subject of religious Zionism, both Jewish and Christian, Mooser and Annie seem to know absolutely nothing -- no cites, no background reading, no facts, no insights. Their agenda seems to be to protect Judaism from any responsibility for Zionism -- which is an absurd position. The Jewish religious establishment is by far the most important component of the Israel lobby. - Sean McBride
"Fofani"? I don't think this is appropriate, Sean and will not get you many fans. It just looks like you are irritated that Mooser won't engage with you. It's his choice, you know, to not debate this or another issue. Just like hostage. Debate only makes sense if there's another side that actually want to debate. You may want to find another angle to get your point across is my recommendation. - Danaa
Danaa -- you may have missed many of the exchanges. Annie Robbins has repeatedly inserted herself in the discussions about Judaism and Zionism in a way that was clearly intended to obstruct and disrupt that line of conversation and investigation on Mondoweiss. And she has repeatedly failed to draw clear distinctions between her role as a Mondoweiss moderator, Mondoweiss spokesperson and... more... - Sean McBride
Annie Fofani is her Twitter handle, by the way. https://twitter.com/anniefo... Nothing derogatory was intended in the use of her self-chosen Twitter name. (Did Danaa think I was taking a cheap shot at her? :) -- not my style.) - Sean McBride
I thought this was a reference to the Name Game: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... (Annie, Annie, Fofannie) But since her name is Annie, not Ana, her name actually would make the Name Game (which uses the ending "-ana") into a tongue twister. - WJones
My main problem with Annie -- she consistently misrepresents and garbles my views and directs her ire at straw men -- after awhile, one loses patience in trying to sort out the mental mess. You can only have a useful discussion when the participants quickly get each other's points -- and respond intelligently to what you are actually saying. Mooser is even worse in this department -- he... more... - Sean McBride
If annie and Mooser's debate style is not to the level you want then just stop debating them. isn't that the obvious solution? my only question is why do you insist on continuing something that you are not happy with? may be you should find some other people to engage with on this topic, possibly not on MW. - Danaa
I am not saying anything here about the pros or cons of this particular debate, because the point of your point is that they (annie, Mooser et al) don't seem to want to engage with you on the topic. At least not sincerely. If you keep bringing up the topic trying to draw out Mooser, it'll just look like you are trying to score debate points. - Danaa
Danaa -- you've got this completely backwards -- when I tried to debate this subject with other people, Mooser and Annie repeatedly interjected themselves into the discussions with the clear intent to disrupt and obstruct -- they were the aggressors. I know what I am talking about -- I was in the middle of every exchange :) -- (all of it archived, by the way). - Sean McBride
Sean, the topic is probably worth discussing for the sake of other readers, but not to expect Annie and Mooser to engage in a constructive way. I don't know that Mooser is really able to make a detailed engagement on the topic, pro or contra. Annie probably is, but she straightjackets herself on the topic, since I asked why are so there so many PEPs who are conservative on the issue,... more... - WJones
I don't know what the deal is with annie and Mooser but I don't engage with either of them any more since the debate/argument Mooser started with me that annie butted into and was very snide and insulting. I made some comment on a thread in response to something saying I had always regarded Jews as religion because that's how I was raised, that Jews were Jews because they were members... more... - American
American -- that's the well-established pattern by now with Annie and Mooser -- they work as a tag team -- with Annie often interceding (butting in) to try to protect "little brother" Mooser -- who has trouble standing up on his own two feet in a serious debate. Often neither one makes a lick of sense -- often they are snide and insulting. They have dragged down the level of the comments section. The basic agenda -- constrain the critique of Zionism to what they consider to be safe limits. - Sean McBride
Well I just ignore them now--I don't really comment that much on MW any more anyway. My only interest in ever looking into the tribe or Jewishness/Jewish history'Judaism to begin with was simply because of the political problem of Jewish Zionism to try and see*why* there is always a Jewish problem century after century. I think I now have a good grip on the 'why of it'----and imo if... more... - American
Avigail's essay was really great. I think more people should have paid attention (judging from the comments - I expected a lot more. If the thread isn't closed down yet I may interject). The key here is the psychology of brain washing from infancy (that's how it's done in Israel). She is saying what I have been for a while now (and she is definitely the professional psychologist; I am... more... - Danaa
'' The key here is the psychology of brain washing from infancy (that's how it's done in Israel). She is saying what I have been for a while now (and she is definitely the professional psychologist; I am just a good observer) that israelis are a cult, a really virulent one. And one with enough tentacles to draw in their supposed bretherns among the jews of the world. Who then go on to... more... - American
MOOSER: "[“I see ancient Judaism as holding an inner Messianic prophecy of universalism.” ~W.Jones"] Yes, but you have always been one of the world’s premier chumps, so you would think a meshuggana thing like that. Go ahead, be a schmendrick, I can’t stop you." http://mondoweiss.net/2014... - WJones
I think he is being sarcastic. - WJones
Let me ask you again, WJones. why do you insist on carrying on a conversation with someone who simply doesn't seem to want to talk to you? Mooser does not want to discuss anything to do with ancient Judaism and/or whatever "prophesies' one imagines were contained in the OT (which, as you know I consider Rantings, not "prophesies") with anyone, be they jewish or not. It's not his shtick,... more... - Danaa
Another thing - most people who are jewish, however observant they may or may not be, are nopt very interested in talking about ancient judaism, and especially not with those who say they are Christians. That task is perhaps best left to historians and/or theologians with a historical bent. I realize Christians (cf. mostly protestants) do like to talk about early Christianity which gets... more... - Danaa
On this again eh? I honestly don't see the point unless you are trying to prove that Judaism provided the seeds for Zionism. I think there are some beliefs in Judaism that 'could have' ..mainly how it evolved for some into a ethnic or 'peoplehood tribe' . But seriously, how do you think you're going to change whatever is in the minds of those you keep trying to discuss this with? The side that pursues this and the side that avoids it both have their minds made up already so its a lose- lose. - American
American saying it more simply than I did, more to the point, too. - Danaa
Mooser, working in tandem with Annie Robbins, was aggressive and abusive in trying to shut down discussion about the relations between Judaism and Zionism on Mondoweiss as a whole. He started that mess. And now many people are wondering where he is really coming from on these issues. If the subject makes him defensive, nervous and shrill, he should steer clear of it -- and he should... more... - Sean McBride
What this controversy revealed about Mooser is that underneath the comic exterior lurks a true fanatic when it comes to Judaism -- very angry and xenophobic in a classical Old Testament way. - Sean McBride
The anti-Zionist and non-Zionist factions in contemporary Judaism are on the far fringe and are completely powerless -- the Jewish religious establishment overwhelmingly supports Zionism and frames it as an organic extension (or even core component) of Judaism. Regarding the topic in general: it comes up all the time on Mondoweiss, spontaneously, among many commenters and MW writers,... more... - Sean McBride
Judaism is the ideological glue that holds together the ethnic cult of Zionism. - Sean McBride
Drat! I lost my comment and have a cruddy head cold and am going to bed---but will just say again ....quit beating your head against the wall. Mooser and annie don't want it, aren't going to engage. I don't know why you try/care anyway cause nothing anyone outside of Judaism says about Judaism being Zionism or visa versa one way or another is going to change anything. - American
I have no interest in discussing the topic with Mooser and Annie -- but I do with other people on MW who are interested in the topic and who are much more knowledgeable about it than they are. You should advise them to butt out and stick to issues they know something about -- with Mooser, that would be doing Henny Youngman routines, circa the 1950s in the Catskills and Borscht Belt. - Sean McBride
I doubt my telling them to butt out would have any affect. lol BUT.... if you want to pursue the subject with other commenters then be smart and don't step in the cow pie---by addressing Mooser on it, don't respond to him or annie regardless of what they say if they do butt in, ignore it----only respond to the others you say have an interest. - American
yet again, I must second American. Don't engage with those who don't want to engage with you. Addressing others is fine, why not. You know, the easiest thingto do on MW, as I found is to ignore people. Which is why I'm always amazed that people were so tempted to respond to someone like hophmi or the other pro-Israel posters. I did so only once in a blue moon and only when i felt like... more... - Danaa
Danaa and American -- again, you are missing the point: Mooser and Annie Robbins were trying to prevent *other* MW users from engaging in discussion on this topic with *one another*. They have sought to censor and shut down the topic of Judaism and Zionism altogether by means of personal attacks and even vicious verbal abuse (from Mooser). I had numerous lengthy and useful conversations... more... - Sean McBride
But this is a non-issue now -- the MW comments section has lost its vitality -- most of the heavyweight commenters and commenting have disappeared. - Sean McBride
What is going on here is that some MW personalities are trying to cling to the belief that Zionism is a peculiar deviation from the Jewish tradition which "hijacked" Judaism. But this is not the case -- the roots of Zionism lie firmly in Judaism -- that is why the Jewish religious establishment has embraced it passionately and without reservation. What was a deviation was Reform Judaism... more... - Sean McBride
Quite a few minds on MW were capable of discussing these issues in an interesting way based on a mastery of scholarship -- but they are now gone. And this is a conversation that has gone right over the heads of Mooser and Annie. - Sean McBride
DANAA, You ask: <<"Let me ask you again, WJones. why do you insist on carrying on a conversation with someone who simply doesn't seem to want to talk to you? Mooser does not want to discuss anything to do with ancient Judaism... My suggestion is - find someone else to converse with.">> I don't have a special interest in talking with Mooser. I make general comments on MW about things I... more... - WJones
WJones -- indeed -- the issue is about Mooser and Annie fouling up and degrading the MW comments section in general with classical troll methods -- not about any desire to engage in discussions with them. - Sean McBride
''indeed -- the issue is about Mooser and Annie fouling up and degrading the MW comments section in general...Sean).....Yeah but there is nothing you can do about it. The best days of the MW comment section are gone, not likely to return. Except for a few times when articles like the one about Ferguson and cops appears and gets people arguing their side and debating its mostly just repetitive yada yada. - American
American -- as you know, I've pretty much written off the MW comments section. There are still some good posts there, however -- for instance, I just quickly scanned the 100 Most Recent Comments and noticed some interesting posts by JLewisDickerson. The valuable commenters go well beyond opinionating -- they load up their comments with important documentary material from high-quality... more... - Sean McBride
WJones also made some excellent posts just recently. - Sean McBride
I wanted to interject into the comments to defend Sean for getting into a worthwhile topic. - WJones
Once again, Mooser is up to his old tricks: http://mondoweiss.net/2014... Always in attack mode on the subject of Judaism. - Sean McBride
Sean, who cares what mode Mooser is in? seems it's only you that takes it to heart. - Danaa
Once again, he is cluttering up the comments section with nastiness and empty remarks while trying to disrupt a useful discussion about an all-important issue. It's beginning to sound like you are defending or excusing his behavior. I would like see an intelligent discussion on Mondoweiss concerning Allan Brownfeld's views on the relations between Judaism and Zionism. Perhaps it can still happen -- we'll see. - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
Estimated 15,000 people join ‘pinstriped Nazis’ on march in Dresden | World news | The Guardian - http://www.theguardian.com/world...
Estimated 15,000 people join ‘pinstriped Nazis’ on march in Dresden | World news | The Guardian
"Its members have been dubbed the “pinstriped Nazis” and they refer to their demonstrations as “evening strolls” through German cities. But on Monday night, an estimated 15,000 people joined Pegida, or Patriotic Europeans Against Islamisation of the West, in a march through Dresden carrying banners bearing slogans such as “Zero tolerance towards criminal asylum seekers”, “Protect our homeland” and “Stop the Islamisation”." - Sean McBride from Bookmarklet
"Lutz Bachmann, the head of Pegida, a nascent anti-foreigner campaign group, led the crowds, either waving or draped in German flags, in barking chants of “Wir sind das Volk”, or “We are the people”, the slogan adopted by protesters in the historic “Monday demonstrations” against the East German government in the runup to the fall of the Berlin Wall." - Sean McBride
Much of Europe is going "Zionist" -- ethnic nationalist -- using many of the same propaganda memes as Israel and the Israel lobby. - Sean McBride
"“Muslims are plotting to infect our food chain with their excrement,” said a man in his 60s, who refused to give his name. Another, a middle-aged woman in a red leather jacket, said she was shocked that “asylum seekers in Germany have expensive mobile phones, while I cannot afford such luxury and others still cannot afford to eat properly”." - Sean McBride
"Almost two-thirds of Germans, according to a poll for news magazine Spiegel by the TNS institute, believe that Angela Merkel’s government is not doing enough to address concerns about immigration and asylum seekers, and 34% think Germany is enduring a process of “Islamisation”." - Sean McBride
"“Something quite new is brewing here,” said Hajo Funke, a researcher into rightwing extremism at the Free University in Berlin. “We haven’t seen rudiments like these of an extreme rightwing inspired mass movement for years”. Funke said that even the group’s name was incendiary. “It’s nothing short of a veritable call to arms by far-right populists,” he said, suggesting that the message triggered comparisons to Third Reich propaganda." - Sean McBride
You can blame the Zios and the US and the GWOT crap for the anti Muslim incitement. But its also going to be very easy for the racist right wingers to turn their sights on the Jews after having dispatched the Muslims. - American
They dont like the 'Islamisation of Germany the same way they didnt like the 'Jewification of Germany in the 1920's. I have been watching the zionist part in this nationalist rise for a couple of years now. But they are so stupid----they think they can 'partner with' nationalist as a way to increase their zio or jewish dominance in various counteries. But because of their naracisssism... more... - American
The obvious best current move for European and American white nationalists is to cooperate with Zionists now, in an alliance of convenience against Islam on behalf of "the West," and then to use the political momentum created by that xenophobia to deal with other groups -- including their former allies. But surely Zionists can figure out this play as well -- so they must have a... more... - Sean McBride
One easy prediction: these nationalists will reclaim and seize by force the wealth that they believe was "stolen" from them through "trickery" and "deceit." Who can't see this coming? - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
Exclusive: American billionaire pledges to purchase Israeli companies to strengthen Jewish state - Diaspora - Jerusalem Post - http://www.jpost.com/Diaspor...
Exclusive: American billionaire pledges to purchase Israeli companies to strengthen Jewish state - Diaspora - Jerusalem Post
"Morton Mandel plans on investing in Israeli firms as a way of building up the Jewish state, the billionaire American Jew told The Jerusalem Post during an interview in Tel Aviv last week. Speaking from the offices of one of the businesses he owns here, Mandel, the 93-year-old co-founder of the Jack, Joseph and Morton Mandel Foundation, said that he plans to “buy more companies that are not doing well and fix them up. The driver is I want a better, stronger, healthier Israel.”" - Sean McBride from Bookmarklet
"Regarding the government’s World Jewry Joint Initiative, a strategy under which Israel plans on implementing programs to strengthen Jewish identity throughout the Diaspora, Mandel said that the Israelis “should be players” and that the state should “fight for what they will think will strengthen Jewish identity.”" - Sean McBride
Amazing set of comments -- read them and you will see. - Sean McBride
Reading his bio he sounds like a decent and smart fellow. But he's got the tribal disease if he wants to join Israel in strengthening Jewish identity around the world for Israel. Fatal flaw---- getting Jews around the world to act as loyalist to Israel. ....the 'nation within nations' tribe thing is what has always cause the others in nations to not like Jews. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - American
Anyone would have to admit that his bio is impressive and admirable -- a classic American rags to riches success story based on hard work and ingenuity. I like his donation for a building to house a center for the advanced study of the humanities at Hebrew University (because I think the humanities should be richly supported everywhere). But I think the expression of aggressive Jewish... more... - Sean McBride
Zionists are pushing the group competition and conflict button to the max -- polarizing the entire world against themselves. If they want to call that blowback "antisemitism," fine -- call it whatever you will. But it's a perfectly natural human response from groups that are as much concerned about their own interests as Jews are about theirs. - Sean McBride
Live by tribalism, die by tribalism. - Sean McBride
# how to tag some of that data for computational analysis in combination with tagged data from other datasets {c; *category; *instance}: - Sean McBride
c; billionaire; Morton Mandel c; Hebrew University donor; Morton Mandel c; Israel lobby leader; Morton Mandel c; Israeli op; Morton Mandel c; Israeli op; World Jewry Joint Initiative c; Jewish billionaire; Morton Mandel c; Jewish organization; World Jewry Joint Initiative c; pro-Israel activist; Morton Mandel c; pro-Israel billionaire; Morton Mandel - Sean McBride
It's a pity that Hostage hasn't attempted to organize his vast documentary resources in an optimal format for Internet browsing and searching. In their current state, in a sprawl of comments on the Mondoweiss site, they are chaotic and inert -- not effectively usable. - Sean McBride
Last year because Mondo is always claiming most jews dont vote for Israel or support Israel I started to ferret out the quesiton by subscribing to jewish journals across the country to see what the content was most of time. It was pro Israel and support Israel. I unscribed to them some time later becuase they were clogging up my mail box but the San Diego Jewish journal wont let me unscribe and keeps on coming no matter how times I try to unscribe!! So I gave up and keep on reading it now and then. - American
In today mail from them was this---->San Diego Jewish World San Diego Jewish World: Daily Digest by admin on December 16, 2014 South Carolina legislator tells of support for Israel By Anav Silverman JERUSALEM (Tazpit) &#8212; At Alan Clemmons&#8217;s Myrtle Beach law firm in South Carolina, the Israeli flag proudly flies alongside the U.S. and Read more - American
This relentless effort by the Israel lobby to link and fuse the American and Israeli flags into a single icon and symbol is an example of crude propaganda and psychological manipulation at its worst -- and it will almost certainly backfire down the line. Most American ethnic groups have enough sense not to play these kinds of dangerous games. The real message here is that the American interest should be subordinate to the Israeli interest -- most Americans are not fooled. - Sean McBride
Knowing the good ole boy South as I do I can tell you there is more than one that takes a dim view of a foreign flag flying beside the US flag. - American
It would make more sense to link English, Irish, French, German or Norwegian patriotic symbols with the American flag -- but those groups would never be crazy enough to do that. You need to be especially messianic and Aspergery to think that this a good idea. - Sean McBride
I might not be around long-- I am having a serious problem that I think is being caused by foxfire. My computer is freezing up and I have to cut it off to exit and on restarting it shows "Locked' at user sign in. It has also wiped out spelling and other functions and etc.. I had to go to IE and force a shut down of foxfire to be able get anything but a frozen page... so I am going to have to work on it. - American
You can use IE or Chrome until you fix your Foxfire problem. You might try uninstalling and reinstalling Firefox. I also assume you are running a first-rate virus checker all the time. - Sean McBride
Yes I have two virus checkers and haven't found a virus. I think I will do a restore to this am before the latest update and see if that corrects it. ..in the past some updates have screwed up my settings. - American
To shut down Firefox (or any program) 1. type control-alt-delete 2. click on Start Task Manager 3. look for "firefox.exe" under Processes and select it 4. click on End Process - Sean McBride
[Reset Firefox – easily fix most problems https://support.mozilla.org/en-US...] - Sean McBride
O.k....it is too weird that I get a 'Locked' at user sign in----something is seriously messing with my settings. - American
Most of these problems can be quickly fixed with creative Googling -- just find the right combination of search terms to find the solution. - Sean McBride
American
http://electronicintifada.net/content... How school privatization hawks Teach For America promote Israel
If you want a subject for MW take on this one. It has a Jewish angle. Plus US education is now circling the toilet between bad teachers that cant be fired because they belong to a union and Zionist who want turn the US in a Jewish state for Israel and yet others who want to bust up Teacher Unions and don't care how they do it. Its a F'ing mess. - American
'' Teach For America (TFA) is best known for dispatching hundreds of idealistic college graduates to work in inner cities across the United States each year, but it also sends selected members on free, religious-themed tours of Israel. - American
' Called The Reality Israel Experience, the TFA-sponsored trips bring idealistic young American teachers into contact with Israeli politicians and military personnel while “introducing [TFA] corps members to Israel’s education and social justice systems.” - American
'' According to testimonies featured on Reality Israel’s official website, participants are at times led by a “military tour guide,” visit with Israeli military educators at an army base “near Jerusalem” (in the occupied West Bank?), and enjoy “ATV off-roading all over the Golan Heights,” an Israeli-occupied region of Syria. - American
' The Reality Israel Experience is largely a project of Lynn Schusterman, the wealthy widow of the oil and gas tycoon Charles Schusterman. Since taking control of her husband’s fortune, she has established a reputation as one of America’s most aggressive backers of pro-Israel campus advocacy, funding campus-oriented ventures like Birthright Israel and The David Project. - American
'' As publicly-funded, privately-operated charter schools expand their reach and their wealthy advocates gain increasing influence over public education, boundaries between religion and state have blurred. This has opened avenues for ideologues like Schusterman to advance their political and religious agenda among a population of needy and impressionable children. With an eye on... more... - American
'' Unlike certified teachers, TFA members must only complete a five-week summer training program before they enter the classroom. They work for lower salaries than certified teachers and must accept weaker health and pension benefits, a prime arrangement for libertarian-minded governors and mayors seeking to hollow out the public sector. - American
'' In Chicago, where Mayor Rahm Emanuel has shuttered nearly fifty public schools, mostly in predominately African-American neighborhoods, approximately 850 teachers and staffers have lost their jobs. The man-made disaster has been a boon to TFA, which is pouring into Chicago with hundreds of non-union replacement teachers. “The added influx of TFA corps in the city means they now compete head-to-head for jobs with traditional teachers,” noted journalist Emily Brosious. - American
'' “TFA basically now is a replacement worker organization,” Branden Rippey, a Newark, New Jersey-based public high school teacher and leader of his city’s New Education Workers caucus, told me. “They are a scab-running company; they lay off tenured teachers and bring in scab workers. The [TFA] kids are so young, they haven’t had experience, they haven’t had conflict with their bosses, they don’t understand what’s happening and don’t know what they’re being used for.” - American
'' A year before Schusterman began supporting education privatization, Michael Steinhardt, the hedge fund manager who commits millions each year to Birthright Israel, and who has declared, “There were no Palestinian people,” initiated an effort to establish a network of Hebrew-language charter schools that promoted Israel on the public dime. - American
'' Reporters Nathan Guttman and Naomi Zeveloff of the Forward reported that the Israeli flag stands beside the American flag in classrooms of the Hebrew Language Academy (45 percent of the school’s students are non-white). Despite criticism from the New York Civil Rights Coalition, which accused the charters of skirting the constitutional separation of religion and state to “transmit cultural values and identity,” the publicly-funded network has expanded across the country. - American
'' According to a 2011 segment on Public Radio International’s program The World, this is how children at the Hebrew Language Academy in Brooklyn begin each school day: [Teacher is heard saying] “Hands at your side like a soldier…” [Students begin to sing.] PRI reporter: It’s not just any song … it’s the Hatikvah, the Israeli national anthem. - American
'' As the billionaire-backed, bipartisan movement for education privatization sets its sights on inner cities across America, pro-Israel ideologues like Schusterman are riding the momentum. And it seems that little can stop them from imposing their agenda, not even the US constitution. written by Max Blumentha - American
Endless propaganda, indoctrination and mind control -- it never stops; it just keeps accelerating. File under the Zionization of America. - Sean McBride
American -- great post, on an important topic, with careful formatting -- easy to read and grasp. - Sean McBride
named entity extraction: - Sean McBride
1. Adam Simon 2. AIPAC 3. Birthright Israel 4. Charles Schusterman 5. David Brooks 6. Eli Broad 7. Goldman Sachs 8. Hebrew Charter School Center 9. Hebrew Language Academy 10. Israel 11. Jennie Starr 12. Kavod Elementary Charter School 13. Lynn Schusterman 14. Michael Steinhardt 15. Rahm Emanuel 16. Sarah Berman 17. Schusterman Foundation 18. TFA (Teach for America) 19. The David Project 20. The Reality Israel Experience - Sean McBride
On the Judaism/Zionism issue: "In 2011, Starr highlighted the new academy as a kind of pro-Israel activism mill, writing, “A passionate, Israel-oriented, Hebrew speaking community will almost certainly support Israel and stay connected to Judaism.”" - Sean McBride
The message that is being relentlessly hammered home by the Jewish establishment: Judaism, Jews, Jewishness=Zionism and Israel. - Sean McBride
Max Blumenthal was the author of this article, btw. More background: [Is this TFA and Reality Israel stuff Anti-Semitic? I’m torn. http://atthechalkface.com/2013...] - Sean McBride
American, thank you thank you for bringing up this topic and the reference. The situation in Education "reform" is one of my areas of interest. I am reading this now. As you say - it's a veritable mess all around - a race to the bottom. And all because of neoliberalism's model of "privatization" "testing" and "monetary reward/punishment". - Danaa
I hope you don't mind if I comment, but American didn't post this at GFTG, and I'd like to comment. It's worse than you think, American. There is a program that sends public school teachers to view the Holocaust Museum in D.C. for training. I don't know the numbers, but the lady I know who went was still teaching about soap and lampshades several years ago after attending. FWIW,... more... - Todd
Todd, I certainly don't mind you interjecting here. I agree on one thing - the "leftist" agenda in education has succeeded in bringing further down the average level of education kids get in this country for everyone. The effort to "narrow the gap" in achievement cannot succeed as long as the education achievement correlates 1:1 with parental education level, which by extension means,... more... - Danaa
Interestingly, the one area i found where people from "left' and "right" can agree on things is the need for basics in education. In this one area, most of the people on "my" side were actually from the opposing party. Fancy that! there's more to be said on this issue but time is a pressing. Still, lets thank American again for pointing out yet another weird angle in the so-called... more... - Danaa
Todd, I meant to also post this at GFTG ---because I knew you in particular would be interested in this---but got call away on a emergency errand and just got back home. - American
Yep, I agree the leftist have made education about touchy feely stuff and free to be me,me,me instead of learning. I think I am one of the older ones here and I can remember when it was the parents job to 'prepare' their kids for school, to teach them the correct behavior- -iow let them know they go to 'learn' and they have to discipline themselves about learning. I see parents these... more... - American
The TFA may have been set with good intentions originally but as we see in this as with everything else---various special interest have their hand in it...the zios, the union busters, the unions. This country is so screwed up. - American
Sean, no its not anti semitic. Politics, political ideologies and certainly not promoting loyalty to a foreign country should be in public education at all in any way, shape or form. All that stuff needs to be banned, kicked out. Education should be *neutral* period. I don't like teaching the holocaust as a stand alone subject in schools either. Particularly to impressionable young children and it shouldnt even be part of American history, it should be a subject in World History courses. - American
I didn't think the article was remotely antisemitic, and I agree with both you and Max on these issues. I posted the link to that article because the comments are incredibly revealing of a certain mindset with which we are all familiar by now. Internet comments are a gold mine for revealing the real and unvarnished attitudes and beliefs of a wide variety of cultural, political and... more... - Sean McBride
Danaa
Friendfeed as malleable platform?
Sean earlier today: "Friendfeed breaks down the artificial barriers among *all* publications and websites on the Internet -- it is infinitely flexible, reconfigurable and extensible. Mix and match however you like." - Danaa
However, an incident with Taxi's new feed calls into question the reliability of this platform. According to Taxi (as conveyed to me), she had three acccounts on FF, two of which were "dormant", ie, nearly empty, hardly used. In the interest of house cleaning, she tried to delete one of the old, unused ones, which resulted in all three being deleted. No notice ever came up, saying... more... - Danaa
I see a very serious problem here assuming this account is true. I cannot try and reproduce/test the conditions described (ie, opening another account, and trying to then delete it) without risking that my normal account will vaporize as well. I am not sure how this can be tested otherwise. neither can I assume that Taxi would deliberately tell a story that is not true. If I assume that... more... - Danaa
Her description of what allegedly happened doesn't make sense to me -- I've had considerable experience with Friendfeed, and followed many conversations among Friendfeed wizards about Friendfeed software issues -- and these scenarios have never come up. FF is a highly stable social media platform -- written by some of the most skilled programmers on the planet. If this had ever been an issue, other users would have reported it and it would have been immediately fixed. - Sean McBride
Sean, that's the problem I see here. Only three options: either Taxi is not telling the truth and has, in fact, deliberately disabled all her accounts; or she is telling the story as it happened, in which case FF comes across as either problematic or not reliable. And three: her computer was somehow hacked. Yes, it's possible she pressed an option unwittingly and what happened was a... more... - Danaa
the possibility of "hacking" is especially problematic. It raises doubts more serious than mere "platform issues" or "software bugs". I am very disturbed by that possibility even if the likelihood is in the single digit percentage points or below. - Danaa
Danaa -- the FF community -- in its entirety -- is a far more reliable source on matters like this than Taxi -- whose tech skills are questionable. Possibly Taxi's PC has been hacked -- but that would have nothing to do with Friendfeed. FF has been solid as a rock for seven years now. - Sean McBride
According to taxi, she has contacted the friendfeed "team" but has not heard back from them. Do they exists? is there any help available whatsoever on-line to people who use this platform? could facebook be deliberately trying to hobble it? is Taxi a facebook "plant"? is Sean one of the "original" Friendfeed developers? am I asking too many questions? are we all being a bit naive about... more... - Danaa
Danaa -- FF has been in a state of stasis since Facebook purchased it a few years ago -- so there is no active team to contact. It is so finely tuned that it has been running perfectly, with no adjustments or tweaks required. Taxi is describing a situation that no other FF user has encountered for seven years -- she may be a bit confused -- or perhaps her personal machine has been hacked. - Sean McBride
Sean, taxi never claimed to have some kind of exceptional technical skills. Neither do the 100's of Millions who use facebook. Whatever the case may be, just like things that transpired with facebook over the years and got either addressed or modified, the scenario described by Taxi needs to be addressed. perhaps by the friednfeed team. Can what she described happen or not (say by... more... - Danaa
I wasn't a FF developer, but I was a very early user (from the first week it was released) and was in regular contact with the developers, who are extremely good. Again, from the FF standpoint, Taxi is describing a non-issue. The problem is at her end. - Sean McBride
Sean, if what you say is true and the problem is entirely at taxi's end, that will leave the two possibilities - her computer being "hacked" as in "taken over" at least momentarily, or she is lying. I see a huge problem either way. - Danaa
Taxi has a problem, but it has nothing to do with FF. I don't have enough information to know what precisely the problem is at her end. - Sean McBride
To me, this account is like putting in blinking yellow lights - proceed with caution. And that is what I plan to do. I will not extend my use of FF beyond what I'm doing now which is just a group messaging and commenting service. I will not put anything on my own Feed or try and "branch out to form another group. - Danaa
Danaa...ditto. we have to take people for what they claim unless evidence/contridictions become too much to deny. I don't have any reason to think Taxi would lie about what or how it happened. - American
But, sean you seem very willing to believe she lies. I understand you guys had an altercation and that her "colorful" language is not to your liking. However, as one who had no altercation with either of you, and one who is not readily emotionalized in general, I am not so quick to label people, either as liars, or as 'not so smart", or as "brilliant" or as "flaky". - Danaa
Danaa -- check out my personal feed -- with thousands of posts and comments over years -- not a single glitch or problem -- NOT ONE -- and other experienced FF users will provide the same reports. Listen to people who know what they are talking about -- not Taxi. - Sean McBride
Danaa -- I didn't accuse her of lying -- you introduced that word, not me -- I simply have no idea of what is going on at her end. Consult the full history of the FF Feedback group -- https://friendfeed.com/friendf... -- there are no other user reports that match up with hers. - Sean McBride
OK Sean, but I am waiting to hear from someone who encountered the same scenario as taxi (ie, having multiple accounts and trying to delete only one or two. leaving others intact). That's what i want to hear about - this particular scenario - can one accidentally (say, by being technically "unkilled") delete one's main account when trying to delete a dormant account? has that happened... more... - Danaa
It could be that taxi had more than one account with an identical handle - so FF wouldn't know how to distinguish between them and deletes them all in a flash. It could be she didn't put in enough distinguishing characteristics and FF got confused. - Danaa
All other scenarios are more disturbing to me. Hence my interest. I would like to have the possibility outlined above as either ruled out or in. - Danaa
I am worried though why she hasn't created a new account on FF to communicate with us--- unless FF limits accounts from the same isp. If so she would have to get a new isp. Other thing I thought of (regarding her *route* of communication with you Danaa)----is perhaps she didn't say more or announce her intentions because she has been hacked or has a monitoring bug and is having to do... more... - American
There have been no reports that I know of (and I have read every post and comment on Friendfeed Feedback since its founding) that describe a situation in which deleting one account by a user deletes all other accounts by a user under other user names. FF doesn't get confused about these matters -- some users might, however. - Sean McBride
Hacking happens all the time on the Internet -- that is the scenario I would most worry about and focus on. FF is as bug-free as any social media platform can be. - Sean McBride
FF accounts are not IP-based -- they are user account-based. You can sign into your FF account from any IP. - Sean McBride
But is there any limit on the accounts you can have on a single isp? And if I accidentally deleted myself from FF membership could I recreate a membership with the same name or not? - American
There is no limit on FF accounts by a single user from a single IP that I know of. Recreating an account with the same user name as that from a previously deleted account -- not sure -- but I suspect that may not be possible. You would probably need to choose a new user name. - Sean McBride
To test this out, I just created three new FF accounts with various user names from my standard IP number -- no problems. Easy as pie. - Sean McBride
I'm watching the New England Patriots/Miami Dolphins game while typing -- great game! :) Brady to Gronkowski -- TOUCHDOWN!!! - Sean McBride
I think Taxi may want to keep her 'brand" which is the Taxi name--that may be part of the problem. - American
That may be water under the bridge. Never delete your own account on FF if you have any intention of preserving your brand. It takes a great deal of effort to delete an account -- virtually impossible to do by accident. - Sean McBride
Brady to Edelman -- TOUCHDOWN!!! - Sean McBride
41 to 13. - Sean McBride
Trying to fix Taxi's problem: we need to know: 1. the exact URL for the account she originally deleted 2. the exact URLs for the other accounts that were deleted with that first deletion. - Sean McBride
With that information, perhaps we can figure out what is going on. This stuff isn't rocket science but it does require precise facts. - Sean McBride
Right. She could be thinking that "Taximondo" is a separate "account" from Taxi, when in fact Taximondo is just one of Taxi's feeds. Then she goes to delete her Taximondo feed, but since she imagines that it's an account, she goes and deletes her whole account. If she was Logged In as Taxi at the moment she chose to go to the Delete Account Page, then by choosing to delete it, she... more... - WJones
That's an interesting conjecture, WJones. Plausible. I imagine I could have made a similar error. Say, if I had multiple feeds and wanted to delete one or two. But that leads to one of the very problems i tried to highlight: if FF does not have a pop-up menu with question/statement such as " deleting your account will result in ALL accounts and feeds deleted. Do you want to proceed?" then yes, the technically non-savvy can easily mistake, "feed" for "account" and bingo - there goes down the whole lot. - Danaa
WJones -- good thinking -- quite plausible. If Taxi will give us the URL she deleted first, we can clear this up pronto. - Sean McBride
Danaa -- if you check out the Delete Account page -- http://friendfeed.com/account... -- you will see that it provides highly conspicuous advisories and warnings about committing this operation -- **This operation cannot be undone; all of your data will be permanently deleted** -- the language couldn't be more clear. It even provides a box to fill in: "Type the word "delete" (to... more... - Sean McBride
Danaa proposed having text saying " deleting your account will result in ALL accounts and feeds deleted. Do you want to proceed?" However, the correct text would not say ALL "accounts and". The fact is, deleting her account should only delete Taxi and the feeds in her account (eg. Taxi mondo). BUT in reality, she could have confused her Taximondo feed with her account. She could have... more... - WJones
Has Taxi made any progress in opening a new account on Friendfeed and in describing with precision the steps that led to her original problem? I'm willing to lend a hand, but I still need to understand exactly what is going on -- especially the specific account and URL that was first deleted. - Sean McBride
My best guess is that this was the URL: https://friendfeed.com/taxee (note: "taxee", not "taxi") - Sean McBride
She might consider using taxi1, taxione, etc. -- any unused URL name with taxi as the base. - Sean McBride
WJones, your theory makes sense. That's what might have happened - an understandable confusion between feed" and "account". Now at least I know what never to try to do. I am interested in this issue because I lost some good posts of my own and that's something I really don't like to have happened. - Danaa
Still no update on Taxi's travails? We can help her, but we need the specific facts on how she came to delete her account. - Sean McBride
American
I am mystified as always by this supposed Christian and gentile guilt for the holocaust
''''He mentioned specifically the recent Gaza war and emphasized the relevance of Marc Ellis’s newest collection of essays about Gaza in his book, Burning Children: A Jewish View of the War in Gaza. Braverman also discussed Ellis’s work in post-Holocaust theology, and why it’s important for Christians to examine the post-Holocaust guilt that has resulted, for many, in support for Israel. - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2014.. - American
Someone is going to have to explain to me where this came from. In the 11 years i have been discussing Israel and I/P with all kinds of people every time I brought up the claim that Christians and /or gentiles (as in all of them) or America was guilty of letting the holocaust happen it was met with "ridiculous" by everyone. So how did this meme get started? The only people I've seen... more... - American
American
https://twitter.com/MaxBlum... Author of Dahiya Doctrine of collective punishment appointed as Israeli army chief of staff
Max is referring to this in his tweet:........http://www.ynetnews.com/article... - American
''In an interview with Yedioth Ahronoth Friday, IDF Northern Command Chief Gadi Eisenkot uttered clear words that essentially mean the following: In the next clash with Hizbullah we won’t bother to hunt for tens of thousands of rocket launchers and we won’t spill our soldiers’ blood in attempts to overtake fortified Hizbullah positions. Rather, we shall destroy Lebanon and won’t be deterred by the protests of the “world.” - American
''We shall pulverize the 160 Shiite villages that have turned into Shiite army bases, and we shall not show mercy when it comes to hitting the national infrastructure of a state that, in practice, is controlled by Hizbullah. - American
''We have failed in our sophisticated attempts to distinguish between innocent individuals and sinning leaders. We have failed in the effort to distinguish between “simple people who also have fathers and children” and those who incite those simple folk. Without saying so explicitly, we reached the conclusion that nations are responsible for their leaders’ acts. - American
''In practical terms, the Palestinians in Gaza are all Khaled Mashaal, the Lebanese are all Nasrallah, and the Iranians are all Ahmadinejad. - American
What is one of the leading themes in ancient Judaism and the Old Testament? -- collective punishment -- based on nationhood and peoplehood. - Sean McBride
I am staying away from the religious angle and just calling it batshit crazy and ultimately suicidal. - American
Students of intellectual history try to understand the ideas and memes that drive and control cultures -- it's a worthwhile pursuit -- it's important to grasp what is really going on in the world. Contemporary Zionism is largely driven by Torah and Old Testament ideas and memes -- it's a very big deal. Know the ideas and memes and you can predict the behavior. - Sean McBride
Ideas rule the world. - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
The Samson Option and Narcissistic Rage
I was just reading Joe Nesbo's detective novel Nemesis and came across this interesting passage: - Sean McBride
BEGIN QUOTE - Sean McBride
'On the subject of ancient gods, I assume you have heard of Narkissos, the Greek god who became so enamoured of his own reflection that he couldn't tear himself away? Freud introduced the concept of a narcissist to psychology, a person with an exaggerated sense of uniqueness, obsessed by the dream of boundless success. For the narcissist the need for revenge against those who have... more... - Sean McBride
'Death to whom?' Harry asked. - Sean McBride
'To all.' - Sean McBride
'That's insane,' Beate burst out.   'In fact, that's what I'm saying,' Aune said drily - Sean McBride
END QUOTE - Sean McBride
[Narcissistic rage and narcissistic injury http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...] - Sean McBride
"Narcissistic rage is a reaction to narcissistic injury, which is a perceived threat to a narcissist's self-esteem or self-worth. Narcissistic injury (or narcissistic scar) is a phrase used by Sigmund Freud in the 1920s; narcissistic wound and narcissistic blow are further, almost interchangeable terms. The term narcissistic rage was coined by Heinz Kohut in 1972." - Sean McBride
"Narcissistic rage occurs on a continuum from instances of aloofness, and expression of mild irritation or annoyance, to serious outbursts, including violent attacks. Narcissistic rage reactions are not limited to personality disorders and may be also seen in catatonic, paranoid delusion and depressive episodes. It has also been suggested that narcissists have two layers of rage. The... more... - Sean McBride
Concept to contemplate: group narcissistic rage. - Sean McBride
# a few concepts to contemplate in combination: [group *] 1. aggression 2. archetypes 3. behavioral patterns 4. competition 5. cooperation 6. cultism 7. customs 8. egotism 9. interests 10. legends 11. lobbies 12. memes 13. messianism 14. myths 15. narcissism 16. narcissistic rage 17. neuroses 18. objectives 19. organized crime 20. paranoia 21. personality traits 22. propaganda themes 23. psychological traits 24. self-hypnosis 25. self-worship 26. will to power - Sean McBride
Btw, any Jo Nesbo fans out there? I discovered him recently -- good stuff. - Sean McBride
I've read all Nesbo's novels. I don't even bother reading US fiction any more---its also has been so dumbed down by Jewish publishing putting out 99% fiction by Jewish writers of no talent and its all below mediocre. Great writers of worthwhile fiction that often incoporate some political event with astounding character development come mostly from Norway and Europe now. Another sector... more... - American
For high-quality detective, mystery and suspense fiction by American authors, Barry Eisler, David Baldacci, Lee Child and Randy Wayne White stand out. American literary fiction has been in steep decline for decades now. - Sean McBride
I now plan to read all of Nesbo's novels. - Sean McBride
I have read all of Lee Child books also....I like his fast moving narrative style. He doesn't do 'extraneous filler' crap that doesn't move the plot. - American
I'm also a big Lee Child fan -- the Jack Reacher character is truly memorable. (Now that I think of it, Lee Child is British by origin.) - Sean McBride
Some time ago I looked at a book called Tuesdays with Morrie with themes of reflection/compassion highlighted in the reviews. Well the author, I discovered, was not writing a universal story but a Zionist tribal one. Here's his sense of understanding: http://mitchalbom.com/d.... If a writer of a different ethnicity wrote such a column... more... - peacefly
c; Israeli op+novelist - Sean McBride
One reason I now avoid most US fiction writers is that I started noticing in too many books by jewish writers --like Johnathan Kellerman for instance who I use to read were peppered with too much jewishness--as in too much mentioning and praising of jewish qualities and etc---and then the last book of his I read was entirely based on a Jewish Israeli operating in the Us and how 'moral'... more... - American
One could bring some clarity to this issue with a bit of social science: sort ethnic groups by number of ethnocentric novels on the New York Times fiction bestsellers list for the past half century. The hard numbers would tell the tale. - Sean McBride
Also: sort ethnic groups by number of *ethnic nationalist* novels on the New York Times fiction bestsellers list for the past half century - Sean McBride
And: the quality of the ethnocentrism matters a great deal -- is it gentle and understated, part of the natural background? -- or is it belligerent, xenophobic, propagandistic or triumphalist? - Sean McBride
Jo Nesbo's novels are *mildly* ethnocentric (Norwegian to be exact) -- but that is because he is a Norwegian author living in Norway. There is not the slightest hint in his writings of a chauvinistic or confrontational attitude about Norwegian ethnic identity. - Sean McBride
Daniel Silva is a good example of an American novelist whose pro-Israel and pro-Jewish propaganda is crude and over the top. He is a militant ethnic nationalist. Joel C. Rosenberg is another example. - Sean McBride
In Nesbo's fiction parts of it are often critical of Norway or elements of Norway's politics....cant remember the title of the one I am specifically thinking of, but it centered around some politics concerning WWII. - American
I don't read Silva any more either. And I read of lot of fiction because it is my way of 'powering down', so to speak, and mentally relaxing before I go to sleep at night. I have almost run out of worthwhile Us authors to read except for a very few. - American
Truman Capote railed that “the Jewish mafia has systematically frozen” gentiles “out of the literary scene.” In a 1968 essay, “On Not Being a Jew,” Edward Hoagland complained that he was “being told in print and occasionally in person that I and my heritage lacked vitality . . . because I could field no ancestor who had hawked copper pots in a Polish shtetl.” Katherine Anne Porter,... more... - American
The Uber Jews naturally try to label all these authors as anti semites for stating what was obviously "obvious' to the most famous non Jewish writers when Jews moved into US publishing houses. Many complained that any Jewish characters in their books that were even slightly non flattering to Jews needed tobe changed or edited out. - American
As far as these authors being anti semites instead of just resentful of the 'discrimination' against them by the Jewish publishers.....I am reminded of this------>'' If you go into a bar and get your ass whipped, maybe the people in the bar were wrong; but if you go into 10 bars in one night and get beat down in every single one of them, chances are that it isn't them, it's you''. Not everyone who criticizes the Jewish clique can be wrong. - American
There was a nice article last year in Salon about why American authors do not and haven't gotten literature Nobel price for lo so many years. It specifically mentioned Philip Roth, who last year, like this year, and every year before went sulking when Noobels were announced. The article did a masterful job of saying everything and noting many reasons without once touching on the obvious... more... - Danaa
Also, thanks for the tips, guys - did not know about Joe nesbo (so little time for anything but noon-fiction. I am all the poorer for it too). - Danaa
Danaa -- [Google; site:salon.com nobel prize philip roth http://www.google.com/#q=site...] >> [Alexander Nazaryan: Why American novelists don’t deserve the Nobel Prize http://www.salon.com/2011...] - Sean McBride
I made an attempt to read Bellow and Roth but couldn't get all the way thru them.. Bellow's disdain for non Jewish society was glaring right off the bat and Roth?,,,ugh,ugh,ugh...too dark, too ethnic, too self navel glazing. Call me simple but I like fiction with some 'redemption' in the tale. - American
I read that Scarlet Johanson was going to direct a movie based on one of Capote's novels..gawd, can you imagine what that will turn out to be? Does that smack of Jews in Hollywood rewarding her for her Israel defense or not. Cant remember which Capote novel, will have to go look it up. - American
Thanks sean. You saved me the work - that was the salon article. the comments on it were interesting too. Everyone skirting the glaring problem and looking everywhere else but directly. - Danaa
Sean McBride
Still don't think that cyberwarfare is a big deal? Check out the developing Sony situation. In truth, cyberwarfare is going to be the biggest deal of all.
A mad rush is underway by governments around the world to identify and provide large salaries to the world's most skilled hackers. Have a shady background? No problem. Perhaps the shadier the better. What matters is the skill set. Hacking in the future will be able to make or break the world's most powerful nations, corporations and institutions. - Sean McBride
Advanced weapons systems are powerful. What is even more powerful is acquiring covert control of advanced weapons systems by hacking. That's leverage. - Sean McBride
Want to bring down any leader in the world? Hack into their personal data. There are a zillion opportunistic approaches to exploit. - Sean McBride
Brave new world indeed. - Sean McBride
Richard Clarke's books on this subject are good reads. - Eric Logan from FFHound!
# The Drudge Report this morning 1. PAPER: SONY SUSPENDS FILMING 2. REPORT: SONY Unable to Process Payments... 3. Delays premiere of hacker movie... 4. Disturbing NEW WARNING Flashed on Staffers' Computers... - Sean McBride
Richard Clarke has been on top of this for quite some time -- brilliant guy. - Sean McBride
Hackers should start going after 'the money' if they want to make a real difference. Hack and send the elites and Zios money caches out into space where it cant be retrieved. Loot their hedge funds and WS accounts. Do it to all of them. - American
But here's the catch: the plutocrats are scooping up all the smartest hackers they can get their hands on with irresistible financial lures and incentives. - Sean McBride
yes Sean - they buy whom they can. But they can't buy everyone, can they? they didn't buy Snowden (though they certainly tried with cushy job and all), and the y couldn't buy David Applebaum and so far, Assange is resisting their offers too (or he wouldn't have to continue and be holed up at the embassy). A few good ones is all we need to cause havoc. - Danaa
The question is, in terms of the long game, which hacker faction will be able to dominate all the other hacker factions. - Sean McBride
Russian and Chinese have potential, but probably US&Britain, since our systems are English based, Microsoft/Apple based ones. - WJones
I would expect the Chinese to excel at hacking -- certainly they have the brainpower to excel. I would also expect Israelis to excel -- being a bit Aspergery is an asset in this field -- almost a prerequisite. I'll wager that Unit 8200 is damned good. - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
1. AIPAC head 2. billionaire 3. Bloomberg News writer 4. CFR member 5. Iran War ringleader 6. Iraq War ringleader 7. Israeli citizen 8. JINSA member 9. liberal Zionist 10. neoconservative 11. NPR pundit 12. PNAC member 13. torture ringleader 14. Washington Post writer 15. WINEP member - Sean McBride
A very few examples. How many blanks can you fill in? (I can think of a few thousand categories of interest.) - Sean McBride
{c; *category1+*category2; *instance} That is a compound boolean category with two categories. One can create statements with any number of compound boolean categories for fine-grained analysis. - Sean McBride
# there are many other ops in the world: * 1. British 2. Chinese 3. German 4. Google 5. Japanese 6. Lockheed Martin 7. Masonic 8. Muslim 9. NATO 10. North Korean 11. NSA 12. Pakistani 13. Roman Catholic 14. Russian 15. Saudi - Sean McBride
Project: extract all the category/instance pairs from all Mondoweiss articles and comments. Store them in a single plain text list. (The single file would include tens of thousands of statements/lines.) - Sean McBride
# one can create an ontology of subops for ops, for instance: 1. c; Israeli op subop; ADL op 2. c; Israeli op subop; Christian Zionist op 3. c; Israeli op subop; JINSA op 4. c; Israeli op subop; Mossad op 5. c; Israeli op subop; Unit 8200 op - Sean McBride
One thing is for certain: if you get overfocused on Israel, you will cease to understand what is really going on in the world. There are many other powerful players, many of them working very quietly in the background. They keep a low profile. - Sean McBride
The chief objective of semantic markup? -- to create a computable model of all the entities, relations, structures and processes in the world -- to see them whole and to understand their minute interactions. - Sean McBride
Those who keep a "low profile" - are they what David icke calls the "lizard people"? or is it simpler - the grouping of plutocrats who are currently managing the Empire and its minions? - Danaa
may be it's the protocols come to life? - Danaa
The key principles of the Protocols have been understood by sharp operators for many centuries -- several millennia even. Call them Illuminati; call them whatever you will. They tend to control history because they can run mental circles around most of the human race. - Sean McBride
No doubt in my mind the Zios are firm believers in and followers of the Protocols. But the Protocols tactics for domination aren't unique to them alone. Its really a basic step guide for any groups out to gain power and assert dominance. - American
Many sharp operators understand the Protocols inside and out without ever reading it -- they understand these matters instinctively and intuitively. And most of them are probably not Jewish. - Sean McBride
American -- keep your mind open to the possibility that non-Zios are playing Zios to the hilt -- permitting them -- *encouraging* them -- to think that they are in control. It would be a huge mistake to underestimate the mental power and cunning of all the non-Jewish players I mentioned above. - Sean McBride
The semantic mark-up won't help against the "lizard people" (who may or may not be lizards), eh? - Danaa
Well I have tried to figure out who or which non Zios might be running and profiting from the Zio mafia partnership but cant come up with any. I know a lot of 'piggybacking' goes on among group and individual special interest movers and shakers as in---you help us with our/my agenda for the Ukraine or whatever and you will get xxx out of it. But I don't see any "Non Jewish group" that... more... - American
Whichever player has the most powerful information tools usually wins -- especially in the knowledge-based era in which we now live. - Sean McBride
Well, I have mentioned the military-industrial-intelligence complex to you several times -- do you have any idea of how powerful it is? Among many other things, it controls NSA, which is capable of spying on the entire world in great depth and detail. - Sean McBride
I don't think there is any one "Group" that has a 'World Plan' (except the Isr Zios for Israel). I think its more like the Wild Wild West--where you have various rouge groups or individuals out there gun slinging for their interest or ideology. Thats why its all FUBAR. - American
# Some of the following organizations and institutions, working together, have done a good job of running the show for quite some time: 1. Bilderberg Group 2. Cambridge (University) 3. CFR 4. CIA 5. DIA 6. GCHQ 7. Goldman Sachs 8. Harvard 9. IMF 10. MI6 11. MIT 12. NATO 13. NSA 14. Oxford 15. Vatican 16. World Bank - Sean McBride
And they definitely have "world plans." - Sean McBride
The military-industrial complex is one of Keith, the anti US imperialism, ranters favorite examples. He claims we give Isr aid because the US weapons industry wantsto sell to Isr. Except it doesn't even hold up either. I think I referred you to Chas Freeman's article on this. The US weapons makers sales to Isr are a drop in the bucket and doesnt even come within spitting distance of... more... - American
As far as the US weapons and intelligence complexes actually being responsible for getting the US gov to start wars and conflicts so they can sell more weapons and build bigger spy kingdoms---I don't know, that seems so far beyond evil its hard to contemplate. - American
I can't imagine anything easier to contemplate -- it's human nature at work. Human groups tend to pursue their interests with maximum force. - Sean McBride
It's not about selling arms to Israel -- it's about profiting from the Global War on Terror and the Clash of Civilizations to the tune of trillions of dollars. It's the biggest of big businesses. Israel is a tool in exploiting a magnificent business opportunity. Look at how many expensive weapons we sell to Saudi Arabia to help protect it from Israel. - Sean McBride
I think many someones would have blown the whistle on that much much faster if that were the case. It would have been easier for the politicians to do that then it has been for those who have blown the whistle on Isr lobby knowing they would be called anti semites. - American
So you are saying the US gov, lobbied by the War-Weapons Industry, keeps Isr in the ME and lets it rampage on everyone as a way creating chaos and of getting countries like Saudi to buy US weapons. - American
What whistle would one blow precisely? The machinations here are quite subtle. The MIIC works hand in glove with the Israel lobby under the pretext of doing the right thing -- of aiding a small beleaguered democratic outpost in the Middle East while fighting evil "antisemitic" forces around the world. It's a superb cover -- and the income is staggering. - Sean McBride
That is exactly what I am saying -- seems obvious to me. Meanwhile US national security bureaucracies are rapidly expanding their budgets and empires. What's not to like from their standpoint? It's a sweet deal. - Sean McBride
Well let me tell you this---a long time ago I read about the first meeting between JINSA and the CEO of a major weapons company---it was expressed as this----'since we cant beat you we will cooperate with you''. I wish to hell I could find that again..I think it may have been an investigation by Mother Jones or The Nation. - American
Where I disagree with Keith and Noam Chomsky is that I think the Jewish lobby is at least an equal player in this game. It is doing all the heavy lifting in propagandizing Zionism to the American public through a rich network of policy centers and media outlets. - Sean McBride
Well I think the Jewish Lobby 'started' the game and having the 'juice' in congress the arms groups went along or at least didnt protest. - American
But here's the thing: you never know when, down the line, the MIIC might pull the plug on Israel and Zionism. Its self-interest changes with changing conditions in the world. - Sean McBride
MIIC=military-industrial-intelligence complex - Sean McBride
But powerful forces in the West encouraged and enabled Zionism from the very beginning -- think back to that Winston Churchill essay I brought to your attention. Divide and conquer tactics applied to the Jewish world. The objective was to defang Jewish movements on the left. - Sean McBride
Think: what benefits, say, have Dick Cheney, Keith Alexander and Michael Hayden derived from the Zionist-instigated Global War on Terror? - Sean McBride
'' think back to that Winston Churchill essay I brought to your attention. Divide and conquer tactics applied to the Jewish world. The objective was to defang Jewish movements on the left...sean) .....The problem with that theory is there weren't any Jewish movements on the left. There were only two Jewish movements going on in the Churchill era--->Jewish Bolshevism in Russia and the... more... - American
I really get glazed over eyes at the way people get all into talking about socialism, marxism, capitalism, etc.etc.. Because it doesn't make a damn bit of difference to the leaders of these movements---except in which they think will have the most support----Because I dont care what kind of system is set up there will still be the *People At The Top* (Elites of the movement) of any... more... - American
American -- Churchill and other Western leaders believed that Jews were the dominating force behind Marxism and communism in Russia and the early Soviet Union, and Jews were in fact the dominating force behind a wide variety of hard left (and soft left) movements in the United States and Europe from the 1930s through the present day. There is a large collection of scholarly literature... more... - Sean McBride
American -- you're right -- all political systems end up under the control of elites -- that seems to be how human societies operate. (One can analyze human societies in the same way that one analyzes ant or bee societies -- certain behavioral patterns predominate.) - Sean McBride
American
http://www.jns.org/news-br... New U.S. spending bill boosts military aid to Israel
US *increases aid to Israel by 20%. Disgusting. Maybe they should kill another 500 Palestine children and get another raise. - American
The $1.01 trillion Omnibus Appropriations Bill for Fiscal Year 2015, which was unveiled this week by Congress and is currently being debated, provides for $3.7 billion in military aid to Israel, including $3.1 billion in regular annual military aid as well as a hefty boost of more than 20 percent in proposed funding for Israel’s missile defense program at $619 million. - American
Meanwhile--Cuts to US domestic programs----->http://www.usda.gov/documen... Clean Water and Drinking Water State Revolving Funds, Environmental Protection Agency Cut by 472 million Environmental Education, Environmental Protection Agency Cut by 10 million Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Direct Healthcare Screenings, Department of Health and... more... - American
Meanwhile----- US financing for FY 2014 Holocaust Museum $52,385 million. Increase of $1,668,277 million. To cover $48,706 million in salaries and expenses, 1,900,000 in repairs, $1,264,000 in Outreach, $515,000 in equipment replacement. http://www.ushmm.org/m... - American
Under financial transfers from Americans to Israel one should include the total costs of the Global War on Terror and the Clash of Civilizations -- including the Iraq, Afghanistan and Afpak Wars -- several trillion dollars. These transfers keep increasing with every year, while the American middle class keeps declining. This is the United States on Zionism. - Sean McBride
Why aren't the rich casino Jews paying for their own Holocaust museum. - American
When I see thing like cuts to helping the poor elderly with fuel or elec cost or cuts to Clean Water programs and then see increases of our tax money given to Israel for more weapons it infuriates me. - American
You have good reason to be infuriated. All Americans do. - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
Replacement theology: the Israeli government and the Israel lobby are trying to replace New Testament Christianity with Zionism -- with violent Old Testament Jewish nationalism.
In essence, they are trying to roll back and erase the last 2,000 years of Christianity from human consciousness. - Sean McBride
This was my reaction while reading this: [The Future of Evangelical Support for Israel http://www.camera.org/index...] - Sean McBride
Christians who succumb to this campaign of psychological warfare clearly don't understand their own tradition. - Sean McBride
This will be of interest. A report on the 2012 Conference of the CUFI and the Christian Zionist groups. Note it says they claim 1.2 million members. If you add about another 150,000 Old Testament preaching churches then it jives with my breakdown and investigation of churches who officially support CZ-ism based on the US census report on religion. All the zio trolls and a few religious... more... - American
Quite likely: down the line the majority of Christians in the West will rise up against Christian Zionists. Christian Zionists themselves may well revise their views once they take stock of what is going on in the real world. - Sean McBride
The CZ idea is actually inimical to the Jewish community. - WJones
Of course it is -- the Christian Zionist endgame is to eliminate Judaism and secular Jewish ideologies from the world -- to impose the domination of Christianity over the entire world. - Sean McBride
That elimination is only supposed to be done by the divine in CZ ideology. Until the divine does that they are supposed to be supporters, unless some other eventuality occurs, eg. old school idolatry. - WJones
Christian Zionists are clearly trying to rush along Armageddon and the Second Coming of Christ as soon as possible -- that is why they keep agitating for more wars in the Middle East (including an attack on Iran). They hope to blow things sky high. - Sean McBride
Both Christian Zionists and Jewish Zionists are playing manipulative games with one another --- flattering one another, cooperating with one another -- with the objective of respectively coming out on top when the dust clears. Both sides hold crazy and dangerous beliefs, in the opinion of many rationalists and realists. - Sean McBride
Israelis are in a small enough area that they will have a tough time if Pakistan decides to intervene. - WJones
American
http://news.antiwar.com/2014... Congress Passes Bill to Sanction Venezuela Venezuela President Slams 'Insolent' Move by Jason Ditz,
In a voice vote, the House of Representatives has passed a previous Senate bill imposing sanctions on Venezuelan officials accused of human rights abuses. - American
The bill’s author in the House was Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R – FL), while the Senate version was by Sen. Robert Menendez (D – NJ). - American
What a crock. Human rights abuses? And right on the heels of the report of US torture. This is nothing but punishing Venezuela for its relations with Cuba by Cuban 'exiles' Ros-lehtinen and Menendez. - American
Both Ros-Lehtinen and Menendez are pro-Israel militants -- with an emphasis on militant. Not a word from them on a wide array of Israeli human rights violatins. - Sean McBride
I cant even express how sick I am of the tag team of the Cuban 'exiles' in congress and Jewish zionist who use the US to carry out their agendas for overthrowing Cuba and supporting Israel. I'd like to see them swinging from lamp post for their fifth column subversion and treason to the US. They are the slime that makes the policy that makes the world hate America. - American
Many of them don't seem to understand the concept of integrating into American culture -- they don't understand Americanism. Their narrow ethnocentrism -- and especially their passionate loyalty to foreign governments -- is destructive for Americans as a whole. - Sean McBride
American
Fwd: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... old, same old,repeating history, Russia, Germany, US (via http://friendfeed.com/mwff3)
Taxi...this link is showing 'file not found'.....try fiddling with it some more or it may be you have to contact FF adm. Meanwhile only by clicking my American 'profile' page can I see anything from you cause all our direct message are gone and all your old comments everywhere on sean and pepsi feeds are gone too. So however you got this to me keep using it till you get a good feed link going that we can pass on. - American
American - it's the same for me. I can't see anything from taxi, period and all discussions/direct messages with her are gone as well. - Danaa
Might she have deleted her own account? - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
If Israel Turns Right, Where Will It End Up? - Room for Debate - NYTimes.com - http://www.nytimes.com/roomfor...
If Israel Turns Right, Where Will It End Up? - Room for Debate - NYTimes.com
"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has ousted the two most prominent centrist ministers from his government. With new elections slated for March, he appears ready to form a government of rightist allies and religious parties. Does the prospect of a purely rightist government show how much Israel has changed? Could the coming elections transform Israel’s future, it’s place in the world and chances for peace?" - Sean McBride from Bookmarklet
Discussants: Jonathan Schanzer, Diana Buttu, David Newman, Caroline Glick, Max Blumenthal. - Sean McBride
Interesting that the New York Times is publishing Max Blumenthal. http://www.nytimes.com/roomfor... - Sean McBride
I hope it ends up disappearing. The world has had more than enough of Jewish self determination. - American
You do realize that if Israel dissolved as a political entity, most Israeli Jews would move to the United States and Europe -- and continue to operate as a powerful financial and political lobby (albeit not as a pro-Israel or Zionist lobby). - Sean McBride
Yea they would. But it would end up with them trying the same Zionist rule and domination on us they tried on the Palestines and that would result in a eventual US holocaust of Jews a la Germany probably. - American
You seem to be arguing that the dissolution of Israel would lead to another Holocaust -- am I misreading you? - Sean McBride
Yep you're 'sort of' misreading---I was being sarcastic about what would happen if the Israeli Zios had to flee Israel and they all moved to the US and started treating Americans like Palestines. - American
If Zionism and Israel did fail, and Israeli Jews relocated to the United States and Europe, the traditional engines of Western antisemitism would probably start revving up once again to full power -- necessitating a revival of Zionism and Israel. - Sean McBride
Sean - aren't you repeating the Zionist claim about a need for an aggressively implemented Jewish state or refuge. The fact is only naturally existing states are legitimate. In this post-colonial era it would lead to obstruction of morality itself. That's why Western leaders who support Israel and condemn al-Qaeda tribal nationalists come off as hypocrites. - peacefly from iPhone
Zionism is a choice, not an obvious destiny. The biggest lie of course is the Zionist belief that they are the masters of their own destiny. - peacefly from iPhone
I was referring to the notion, promoted by the original Zionists, that antisemitism in the Diaspora -- periodically extreme antisemitism -- is the natural and eternal condition of humanity -- and that Zionism is the only solution to deal with "the Jewish question" -- to escape this cycle of conflict and to create a safe haven for Jews. But, as it turns out, it seems that neither Zionism... more... - Sean McBride
''So the question is, why? - Sean McBride)......You know the answer. The tribe is a 2000 yr old 'Cult. This is so obvious with even a cursory scan of Jewish history. From day one of ancient days the Rabbis promoted a cult belief system of eternal enemies and the Chosen as innocent victims . The Jews in ancient days always lost in battles and competitions with the bigger tribes, the... more... - American
One can see how you come up with that reading, based on several thousand years of history in which a few salient behavioral patterns keep coming to the surface again and again and again. And especially in an era (our own, in 2014), in which many Jews are using the core nationalist and xenophobic memes of the Torah to explain contemporary history and politics. - Sean McBride
But I still feel that I don't have a solid handle on this subject -- I keep digging and thinking about it. - Sean McBride
Not only doesn't Mondoweiss explore these topics -- it has actively tried to censor discussion about them, with only a few exceptions. It seems to be allergic to deep thinking -- don't go there. Focus on day-to-day political activism based on progressive cliches. Don't dig below the surface of events. - Sean McBride
Kevin MacDonald, who is regularly smeared as an antisemite, has thought deeply about the group competition factor driving these behavioral and historical patterns. Certainly group competition is capable of explaining a great deal -- and group competition at the root is driven by genetics. - Sean McBride
set; group competition themes in the Old Testament - Sean McBride
Good pts Sean and American. Perhaps Jews need their own Enlightenment. It is time to admit that the Enlightenment was mostly a Christian European thing. Zionists have hammered this point that it is a Judeo-Christian civilisation. This leaves out any responsibility on the part of Jewish intellectuals to headon challenge aspects of tribalism and cultism. That said I have the greatest... more... - peacefly
The "Judeo-Christian civilization" propaganda meme promoted by Zionism (and by neoonservatives especially) has been a direct assault on Enlightenment values. It has been targeted primarily at Christian fundamentalists (many of whom have been converted to Christian Zionism and turned into drones controlled by the Israeli government). These are precisely the kind of people who most... more... - Sean McBride
"Judeo-Christianists" - or just "Christianists" perhaps. Again all the major figures were Christian. Friedman keeps talking of a Muslim Martin Luther King. He should come up with a Jewish Matin Luther King first. A Jewish Martin Luther King would have not time for Friedman et al - peacefly
I do not see how anyone ( except for propaganda purposes, which it was) could possibly promote any kind of ''Judeo-Christian civilization". To put it in religious background history when Jesus denounced Judaism that was it----there was never any 'marriage' of Judeo and Christianity. It more like a divorce..that became the War of the Roses for centuries. Judeo-Christian is a propaganda meme. As far as any kind of 'civilization' combining the two? Look at Israel--its Judeo. - American
Group competition, group egotism, power games, the will to power and domination, psychological manipulation, deception -- that's the context in which to interpret the ideological construct "Judeo-Christian." The object is here is pull the rug out from Christianity and to acquire control of it through hocus-pocus. All propaganda works that way. - Sean McBride
1. def; hocus-pocus; meaningless talk or activity, often designed to draw attention away from and disguise what is actually happening. 2. def; hocus-pocus; a form of words often used by a person performing magic tricks. 3. def; hocus-pocus; deception; trickery. - Sean McBride
"Bullshit" will also do quite nicely. - Sean McBride
'' But I still feel that I don't have a solid handle on this subject -- I keep digging and thinking about it. - Sean McBride ).....Well I've dug as deep as I want to into ancient Jewish or Judaism's history cause its not going to make any difference in current problem of I/P and Zio lobby on US. I dont know too much about Judaism except what I've read and their various religious... more... - American
A really good book on this subject you might want to look at some time -- Paul Johnson's A History of the Jews. http://www.amazon.com/History... - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
# what doesn't work in online communications
1. personal attacks 2. verbal abuse 3. feuding 4. flailing 5. hysteria 6. shouting 7. shrieking 8. thrashing - Sean McBride
Smart people instantly and automatically filter all that out -- they don't have time. - Sean McBride
What brought that about, again? is this directed at someone in particular or is it an admonishment a la Moses' tablets issued to the wider human race? - Danaa
Actually, I'd say that personal attacks and flailing work very well, seeing the immense popularity of the latest SONY hack? it's a treasure trove of behind the scenes gossip and everyone who is anyone in show business has commented on it, flailing all the way to kingdom come. - Danaa
Also, hysteria has worked for the pro-Israel crowd rather well (Holocauset! gevalt! anti-semitism!) all these years. may be a bit blanted by now, but the tool still works great against any public figure and any politico who runs for office. So yes, smearing works, shrieking works and personal attacks work - at least for the party with the werwithal. - Danaa
I am just observing Internet behavior in general -- and noticing what kinds of communications I pay attention to and which kinds of communications I don't. - Sean McBride
In terms of pushing the masses this way and that, shrieky and rabid propaganda often does in fact work -- take Fox News as an example, which relentlessly pushes fear, paranoia, rage and hate buttons. - Sean McBride
I am talking about communications that work best in influencing elite opinion -- not mass opinion. - Sean McBride
I doubt the real 'elite' actually read any of our communications. they are too busy being full of themselves issuing their own or denigrating others'. The ones that I consider "real elites" are hardly the ones at the top of the line - it's more of a community of "exiled", like Chris hedges, Snowden, Greenwald, Stieglitz etc. just to mention a very very short list. My special elites are... more... - Danaa
I should add that what especially doesn't work in *online discussion forums* is out-of-control and self-indulgent speech -- especially verbal abuse -- it is capable of bringing any forum to a grinding halt. Personal attacks rapidly escalate into infantile feuds. - Sean McBride
I'll wager that quite a few influential minds read Mondoweiss (the main articles) -- if the writing wasn't crisp, calm and fact-based, which it is usually, they wouldn't bother. They visit Mondoweiss with the expectation of acquiring new important facts about Israeli politics that are delivered with a minimum of noise. - Sean McBride
Regarding MW, I am sort of dropping it as far as commenting goes, although I will still check the articles there. Not that I dont appreciate the way it has exposed Israel and I/P, but the intelligence level in the comment section has gone down down down. So many good commenters left since all the banning, and I'm not referring to just the banned ones. All it is now is the same people... more... - American
I agree -- the golden age of the Mondoweiss comment section is over -- it was quite impressive while it lasted. - Sean McBride
FF works better for my use, even to make comments on MW articles, doesn't take as much of my time, don't have to wonder if its going thru and it has a edit function...and a delete so if what you said comes out all wrong you can get rid of it...lol - American
American -- you GET FF :) -- I'm impressed -- yup to all that. Fleetness, flexibility and personal control is the name of the game. - Sean McBride
You can have a real conversation here -- even in real time -- without too much interference. - Sean McBride
I rarely feel motivated to visit the Mondoweiss comment section these days -- I am not seeing much in the way of new information and ideas. And often just scanning the headlines of new Mondoweiss articles in the news feed in this group tells me all I need to know. - Sean McBride
The elite (authority) don't listen to the people unless they do scream. Only ways to get the attention of an elite these days is a briefcase full of money or a gun to their head. - American
The briefcase full of money approach is highly reliable -- and relatively risk-free compared to other methods. - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
Rinsing Israel Out of Europe: The Zionistfrei Movement - WSJ (Brendan O'Neill) - http://www.wsj.com/article...
"In Britain, France, Spain and beyond, a drive to ban products from the Jewish state is picking up speed." - Sean McBride from Bookmarklet
Good. BDS just the settlements isnt enough. - American
This will probably go global, if Israel continues on its current path -- or even a worse path. - Sean McBride
Israel has lost the public relations war in the West. - Sean McBride
We hope. - American
weareone
Taboo Topics and Jewish Lobby talk by Henry Herskovitz and Greg Felton: http://www.gilad.co.uk/writing...
"Henry Herskovitz addressed the Mideast Conflict Forum on September 20, 2014. After several visits to Palestine, Henry attempted to impart the harsh realities observed about Israel-Palestine to his Ann Arbor Jewish Community." - weareone
"Henry's unintended story, due to years of stonewalling, developed into one about Jewish Power. Henry shares his core discovery viz. Runaway Jewish Power - not Occupation or Zionism - vexes the globe. Henry Herskovitz urges everyone to expose Jewish Power in order to diminish it! Ann Arbor typifies dug-in DENIAL pervading Jewish Communities across America." - weareone
"Greg Felton spoke next at the Mideast Conflict Forum. Greg authored "The Host and the Parasite" and speaks on Israel-Palestine." - weareone
"Greg warned that LANGUAGE can be taken hostage and with it our thinking. He further ripped away religion from the troubles besetting the Mideast. It is Fascism coated with Chauvinism that accompanied Jewish émigrés to Palestine." - weareone
"Greg summarizes that shared values little exist with Israel. He analogizes a "master-slave" existing relationship. We can only escape if we "opt out" of any Zionist mindset. Our attention he directs to barcode 729 that identifies products of Israel. [ now changed to 871http://www.earth-heal.com/news...] Boycott he urges!" - weareone
From the video: "Zionism is the symptom, Jewish power is the disease." - weareone
Comment: "The highest form of freedom carries with it the greatest measure of discipline and humility. Freedom that comes from discipline and humility cannot be denied; unbridled licence is a sign of vulgarity, injurious alike to self and one's neighbors." Gandhi - weareone
Excellent video-about 30 min. - weareone
'' "Greg warned that LANGUAGE can be taken hostage')......Yep it has been. ...''liberal, colonialism , self determination, etc.'' ....all these red herring labels and descriptions within Zionism and Jewishness and Israel.....are just covers for what it really is----a Fascist like, Mafia like Cult of ethnic domination over others. That's all it is. A lot of 'Stepford- like minds will fall into the trap of discussing it under those red herring labels and explanations. - American
The reason I lose patience with the whole can of worms is this----->The ENTIRE operating platform of the tribe and zionism is built on one thing---the Jews as innocent victims. That the world of others has since the beginning of time always been wrong about and evil toward Jews and Jews since the beginning of time have always been totally innocent and benign toward the others world and... more... - American
To paint one's divinely chosen group as an eternally maligned victim in eternal conflict with "unchosen" peoples would arguably not be entirely sane. So from what sources might that belief arise? And why has that belief exerted such a powerful hold on the minds of so many people for so many centuries? - Sean McBride
The sources are definitely psychological, in my opinion -- we are looking at a strange phenomenon based on group psychology. Most people who hold these beliefs are unconscious of their own psychology -- they assume that they are grounded in reality. Ideology is not primary here -- ideology flows from psychology. And what is the source of persistent psychological archetypes? - Sean McBride
People who are unconscious of the psychological forces that are driving them are "underwater" -- in my lingo -- not fully conscious or self-aware. Their behavior is mechanical and robotic -- they are automatons. - Sean McBride
American -- where we are not fully in sync on these issues -- I have a high degree of tolerance for certain kinds of neurotic behavior -- they are often linked to and entangled with creative energy -- to civilization building. We are indeed a peculiar species. But some types of neurotic behavior could lead to the destruction of the human race. This stuff is complicated -- I don't see these issues in black and white terms. - Sean McBride
'' American -- where we are not fully in sync on these issues -- I have a high degree of tolerance for certain kinds of neurotic behavior -- they are often linked to and entangled with creative energy -- to civilization building.'''sean)........Its not complicated. The neurotic destructive behavior based on chosen and enemies by uber Jews is bad. The neurotic (obsessive- creative) behavior in pursuit of something like a Steve Jobs for instance is good or benign. - American
Good point -- group neuroticism -- channeled into warmaking against outgroups -- tends to be much more destructive than individual neuroticism channeled into creating great works. Steve Jobs was indeed a very different person than, say, Benjamin Netanyahu -- a much more valuable human being in the opinion of most of us. - Sean McBride
"Neuroticism is a long-term tendency to be in a negative emotional state. People with neuroticism tend to have more depressed moods - they suffer from feelings of guilt, envy, anger and anxiety, more frequently and more severely than other individuals. Neuroticism is the state of being neurotic." - Sean McBride
'' So from what sources might that belief arise? And why has that belief exerted such a powerful hold on the minds of so many people for so many centuries?''...sean )....They arose as I described. As Aztmon has described the same way , as Avigail has described as predating the holocaust and always within the tribe. And it has been passed down from generation to generation of Jews thru out the centuries. - American
What I am trying to figure out: is it primarily a cultural phenomenon or a biological (genetic) phenomenon? One often gets the vibe from messianic ethnic nationalists and xenophobes that they are suffering from a deep-rooted mental condition or disorder -- one possibly associated with genetic factors. If the condition is genetic, eventually we will be able to identify the genetic markers in a precise way. - Sean McBride
The topic of genetics and human behavior makes many people uncomfortable (in the past, ideological racists have exploited this domain) -- but the truth is, scientists are continuing to uncover a genetic basis for many important personality and psychological traits. This field is still in the process of being sorted out. - Sean McBride
'' is it primarily a cultural phenomenon or a biological (genetic) phenomenon? One often gets the vibe from messianic ethnic nationalists and xenophobes that they are suffering from a deep-rooted mental condition or disorder -- one possibly associated with genetic factors. If the condition is genetic, ''...sean)........It could be both. It is first cultural, thats how it begins. And as... more... - American
That sounds like a promising line of investigation and research -- something like that is probably in play. - Sean McBride
# some useful Google searches related to this topic: [Google; genetics *] 1. addiction 2. aggression 3. alcoholism 4. aptitude 5. arabs 6. aspergers 7. autism 8. character 9. crime 10. culture 11. disease 12. empathy 13. ethnicity 14. europeans 15. genius 16. intelligence 17. iq 18. irish 19. jews 20. mental disorders 21. personality 22. politics 23. prodigies 24. psychology 25. religion 26. schizophrenia 27. talent 28. talent math 29. talent music 30. temperament 31. tourette 32. violence 33. war - Sean McBride
Man is not different from animals in most regards. You can take a puppy or kitten away from its mother before it has even had a chance to be trained by its mother or observe her and it will still exhibit the traits of it parents. That is why horse and dog breeders often chose sires and dams with certain "temperamental traits". if a breeder wants a horse with a gentle or easy going... more... - American
Right -- clearly there is a strong genetic basis for traits of personality and temperament among many animal breeds. There are deviations within breeds -- but there is a strong overall pattern or trend. I love Ragdoll cats and Golden Retriever dogs -- mainly for their personality traits and temperament -- calm, kind, intelligent, empathetic. - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
Israel indicts US fugitive who allegedly planned to bomb Muslim holy sites - Israel News - Jerusalem Post - http://www.jpost.com/Israel-...
Israel indicts US fugitive who allegedly planned to bomb Muslim holy sites - Israel News - Jerusalem Post
"An American fugitive who took up residence in Palestinian-controlled cities on the West Bank and who allegedly came into possession of arms in order to carry out terrorist attacks against Islamic holy sites in Israel was indicted last month by Israeli prosecutors, officials said on Tuesday. Adam Everett Livvix, a Christian who is wanted in the United States for questioning on drug-related charges, was apprehended by Israeli police on November 19. According to the indictment, Livvix had recently “told his acquaintances in Israel about his negative opinions towards the Arab population in Israel and his desire to cause harm to Islamic holy sites in Israel.” In October 2014, he conspired with his roommate, an IDF soldier who also holds American citizenship, to acquire weapons. The indictment says this included 1.4 kg of explosive bricks, for which he paid his roommate an unstated sum." - Sean McBride from Bookmarklet
The article specifies the religion of Adam Everett Livvix as Christian -- it doesn't specify the religion of his coconspirator. It doesn't even NAME his coconspirator. - Sean McBride
Naturally not, because he's a Jew. - American
One couild get that impression -- keep him out of the spotlight. - Sean McBride
Mondoweiss on Friendfeed
Saban confronts Bennett: ‘Are you willing to cut commercial ties with Europe?’ - http://mondoweiss.net/2014...
Haim Saban, a leading Israel supporter in the U.S., openly confronts Israeli minister Naftali Bennett: "We live in different realities... Are you willing to cut commercial ties with Europe, because this is what's going to happen if you have your way in annexing Area C."
MW wont let me post this comment in reply to Bennett's claims about how the world couldnt exist with israeli inventions----->@ Walid I am not sure what you are saying. Are you saying that they included some kind of self destruct device in their 'gizmos"? If so that's sort of far fetched. We've been over the myths that Israel invented everything from cherry tomatoes and irrigation to... more... - American
The same personality traits keep popping up among leaders of the Israeli right: 1. arrogant 2. Aspergery 3. bombastic 4. ethnocentric 5. grandiose 6. narcissistic 7. sociopathic 8. xenophobic. Once again, we are dealing more with psychological than political issues here -- the political culture is the product of a set of psychological features. - Sean McBride
American -- I can see some obvious edits that would make that comment go through more easily -- but you probably don't want my advice. :) Look at Phil's prose style in the lead article -- calm, understated, low-key, factual, etc. -- that's how to do it, in my opinion. Let the facts speak for themselves; let readers summon up their own disgust or outrage. - Sean McBride
Did Naftali Bennett just make some terrorist threats in those remarks? - Sean McBride
Bennett is of the opinion that the world is dependent on Israel but that Israel is not dependent on the world -- we are deep into the realm of messianic magical thinking here -- one with a clearly biblical basis. - Sean McBride
With swagger and braggadocio, Bennett is telling Americans, Europeans, Chinese, Japanese, South Koreans, etc. that they are too stupid to make high-quality products -- insulting the entire world to its face. And then pro-Israel activists wonder why Israel has a global public relations problem. As I mentioned earlier, Germany, for instance, probably wouldn't mind getting involved in a bit of friendly competition with Israel in the fields of engineering and education. - Sean McBride
Much of Israel's high tech sector has been dependent on outside investment, especially from the United States. - Sean McBride
American -- your comment cleared. - Sean McBride
Is it beginning to dawn on Haim Saban and other leading pro-Israel activists in the United States and Europe that they may have helped to create a monster that could radically threaten their own interests? - Sean McBride
Yea I just saw it got posted. - American
Here are the facts on the Isr economy. 40%+ of their economy is dependent on exports. Isr exports slightly more to Europe than US. Isr is also dependent on foreign 'investment' for their start ups and venture capital to the tune of 70% of all investment in Isr companies. Their major IT and so called high tech innovation and manufacturing and exporting are almost all owned by foreign... more... - American
Germany, 70 years now past WWII, has literally surpassed every other European country economically and in engineering Germany still rules. I don't know how they did it but they did it. You have to admire them for rising from ashes and the condemnation of the world to become once again the strongest state in Europe. - American
Notice that Germany is acquiring this success and power without any swaggering or braggadocio -- quietly -- no melodrama -- no endless apocalyptic confrontations with the rest of the world -- no frenetic warmongering -- no incessant demands being made on Americans -- no torrents of verbal abuse being directed at political opponents in social media -- no reliance on victimhood themes -- no appeals to "God" or divine texts. Two words: be smart. Keep your head down and go about your business. - Sean McBride
American -- that comment you just posted on Israeli economic stats was highly effective in terms of impacting my mind -- just the key facts -- especially that 70% figure regarding foreign investment. Comments like that give readers the space to work up their own emotional response. - Sean McBride
Regarding the negative psychological features listed above -- what is their source? -- that is the question of greatest interest. Clearly something in the culture is sustaining and reinforcing them. - Sean McBride
# German engineering (just a few examples): 1. Audi 2. BMW 3. Mercedes-Benz 4. Porsche. Germany doesn't need to brag about these products -- the superb craftsmanship speaks for itself. - Sean McBride
[Wolfram Alpha; compare germany, israel http://www.wolframalpha.com/input...] - Sean McBride
HarryLaw: "In a trade war with Europe, 8 million Israelis are bound to win against the 507 million people in the European Union." http://mondoweiss.net/2014... - Sean McBride
All I can chalk up all the Israeli bragging to is their natural hubris. But its so stupid---here these Israelis are running their country and they are either so dumb they have no clue on their own country's economics or either so dumb they assume everyone is so stupid they will believe anything they say. Its jaw dropping when you hear this stuff, - American
Mondoweiss on Friendfeed
Mamdani’s ‘holistic’ challenge: Anti-Zionists must persuade Jews they can only be safe by dismantling the Jewish state - http://mondoweiss.net/2014...
Mahmood Mamdani, Columbia professor, says South African apartheid ended through negotiation with whites who did not fear for their security; and today Israeli Jews must be educated to understand that Zionism is not a safeguard against another Holocaust; they can only be safe in historic Palestine if they dismantle the Jewish state.
It's a sign of progress, imo, that the phrase "dismantling the Jewish state" is reaching a larger audience and now being discussed openly at institutions like Columbia. A few groups and individuals have used this term for years when referring to the solution for Palestine, but in the past this has been received with either a firestorm of criticism, or silence. This is quite a turning point. - weareone
Yes it is being used more.....I 've used ' dismantled' often and I cant remember if it was Sean or someone on MW who jumped on me and accused me of anti semitism and advocating genocide of Jews for saying that . Or it might have been W Jones. Whoever, I dont care---any fool can see that a Jewish 'ruled' state is dangerous to everyone. - American
I've used "dismantled" many times as well American. - weareone from iPhone
Sean McBride
On the entanglement of Judaism with Zionism (Part 2)
BEGIN COMMENT - Sean McBride
Annie, - Sean McBride
Religious Zionism -- Zionism completely entangled with and powered by Judaism -- has become the biggest story in Israeli politics over the last few years -- religious Zionists are acquiring increasing control over the Israeli government and Israeli military and security services -- they are driving mainstream Israeli politics to the extreme right in the name of Judaism. - Sean McBride
These trends are discussed all the time in Israeli and Jewish media. The best Jewish and non-Jewish minds who are knowledgeable about Israeli politics are sounding the alarm about the issue with increasing urgency. - Sean McBride
These remarks by Shabtai Shavit, a former head of Mossad, are typical: - Sean McBride
<blockquote> I am concerned that for the first time, I am seeing haughtiness and arrogance, together with more than a bit of the messianic thinking that rushes to turn the conflict into a holy war. If this has been, so far, a local political conflict that two small nations have been waging over a small and defined piece of territory, major forces in the religious Zionist movement are... more... - Sean McBride
"I am concerned because I see history repeating itself. The nation of Israel is galloping blindly in a time tunnel to the age of Bar Kochba and his war on the Roman Empire. The result of that conflict was several centuries of national existence in the Land of Israel followed by 2,000 years of exile...." - Sean McBride
"The religious Zionist movement ... believes the Jews are “God’s chosen.” This movement, which sanctifies territory beyond any other value, is prepared to sacrifice everything, even at the price of failure and danger to the Third Commonwealth." </blockquote> - Sean McBride
The views of Jewish establishment religious leaders on Zionism -- in Israel and the Diaspora -- are having a much greater impact on these developments than your views and those of Mooser. They are in a much more powerful position to define Judaism to the world than you are. - Sean McBride
It would be helpful if you and Mooser focused on pushing back against these dangerous trends in Israeli and Zionist politics -- and that will require acknowledging that there are major problems in the thinking of the Jewish religious establishment about Judaism and its relations with Zionism. - Sean McBride
END COMMENT - Sean McBride
Sean, why do you expect a different response from the editors and some commenters at MW? Haven't you been saying the same thing for several years to the same people? I came across a MW archive from 2012-- long before I began (and ended) commenting. There were a only a few commenters who acknowledged the truths that you're expressing: you, of course, Thomson Rutherford, American, Jeffrey... more... - weareone
Indeed -- "in denial" -- to a degee that is ridiculous. When you examine the back and forth on this subject on Mondoweiss (to the degree that it has been permitted), you will notice that the replies by Mooser and Annie in particular have been completely irrational, insulting, ungrounded in facts of any kind, etc. It is important for them to maintain the illusion and falsehood that... more... - Sean McBride
So be it. They're entitled to their opinion. Perhaps it's time to move on. - weareone
Phil Weiss himself has approved numerous articles on Mondoweiss that have developed this theme -- it's clear that he doesn't share the views of Mooser and Annie. I think it's important to keep up pressure on this front. - Sean McBride
Well, I'm not as clear on the editors motivations as you seem to be, given the banning of Jeffrey Blankfort, but regardless--I wish you luck, you'll need it. :) - weareone
My impression is that Phil Weiss has come under a great deal of pressure to censor certain topics concerning Israel and Zionism -- and that he has occasionally bent to the pressure. But he knows the score. - Sean McBride
Regarding the need for luck -- Annie has repeatedly held up or failed to pass through perfectly civil and carefully documented posts (like these recent ones) which challenge her and Mooser's views about the relations between Judaism and Zionism -- that's a convenient way to try to control a debate. :) - Sean McBride
Yes, but it's their site---they can do as they please, which is one of the reasons they've lost, imo, some very valuable commenters like Blankfort and Thomson Rutherford. - weareone
True enough -- publications and forums are free to moderate their sites any way they choose. But I think a few personalities have succeeded in driving away many of Mondoweiss's most intelligent and knowledgeable readers and commenters. Most of us noticed quite some time ago that Mooser contributes absolutely nothing in the way of useful information about Mideast politics -- he simply uses the site to express his shallow narcissism -- it's all about his fragile and needy ego. - Sean McBride
In any case, on the Internet it is easy to route around any obstacles with a bit of initiative. - Sean McBride
But yet the editors and some commenters continually praise his commentary. What does that tell you? - weareone
It tells me a great deal about those particular people. :) They are in the business of damage control -- they are trying to create a firewall to protect the creators and lead promoters of Zionism from the destructive consequences of Zionism. This is a project that requires grotesque and twisty intellectual acrobatics of the type that Mooser regularly serves up. - Sean McBride
Give it up. You aren't going to convince those like Mooser that there was/is anything in Judaism that gave rise to either religious (chosen people) or secular (nation of people) Zionism. The proof of the concept of/ belief in Zionism ( a 'nation' of people) within Judaism can be found during the Enlightenment period in the Rabbi's arguments with the nations on what the 'citizenship' the... more... - American
Yes. - weareone
Sean, I was responding "yes" to you, but I also agree with American. - weareone
American -- you've been right about this issue all along -- as I have acknowledged before. What makes Mooser's and Annie's behavior exceptionally weird is that leading representatives of Judaism proclaim the unity of Judaism and Zionism on a daily basis in leading Israeli and Jewish media. When this material is brought to their attention, they try to pretend that they didn't see it. We are far out of the realm of the rational here -- in crazy territory. - Sean McBride
You reach a point with this kind of lunacy where you lose patience -- it has to be treated with withering contempt. - Sean McBride
All that happens when you pursue that is you get put on their hamster wheel. The hamster wheel being Jews are both a religion and a people. If you argue as I have that Jews were not a 'distinct ethnic people' but a religious group--and that Jewish CULTURE and their belief in their ETHNIC STATUS grew out of Judaism the 'religious' Moosers types will deny any Jewish CULTURE (the Zionist... more... - American
"But I think a few personalities have succeeded in driving away many of Mondoweiss's most intelligent and knowledgeable readers and commenters."-Sean. --You seem to be protecting the editors from the consequences of their actions. It wasn't a commenter that banned Blankfort or banned certain topics which drove away commenters who might otherwise provide some balance to the site and expose some truths. That decision was made by the editors. - weareone
Phil wants to, or does, or did believe that Jews have a superior 'culture' to others---regardless of where it came from,whether it be religious or ethnic. - American
"Phil ,et al don't want is any discussion like that to lead to any *examination of the Jewish culture*." If I may borrow your saying, American--- nail on head. :) - weareone
Sean, might you consider a name change for your feed? Does Mondoweiss align with your mission, vision and values? - weareone
A name change is something to think about -- this group started as a mere convenience, a location to track new Mondoweiss articles via its RSS feed. Then it expanded a bit to accommodate commenters and comments that were blocked or banned on Mondoweiss for questionable reasons (starting with the Blankfort expulsion). Increasingly it has included stories and information that Mondoweiss hasn't covered. - Sean McBride
American -- I can't find anything to disagree with you about today :) -- sometimes you hit the nail hard on the head in a way that it needs to be hit -- with might and force. Running into too much bullshit tends to provoke that kind of expression. - Sean McBride
Well, thanks very much Sean and American (as well as a few others whom I'm sure I've left out, though not intentionally) -you've tried to expose truths on these issues for several years. - weareone
weareone -- you have also provided some valuable commentary and insights on these topics -- and you are definitely one of Mondoweiss's sharpest readers and observers. - Sean McBride
Thanks. :) - weareone
I agree with wearone here about the pointlessness of taking on Mondoweiss in an area they clearly are not willing to engage in. As I often noted, I believe it's not so much about the topic (cf. Zionism being inherent to Judaism, which is really a tautology). it's about non-Jewish people interjecting into the discussion. They simply can't allow that because of the paranoia in jewish... more... - Danaa
The reason this line of debate is pointless on MW is because the site is ultimately run to penetrate and influence Jewish people. Not so much the establishment but the ones thinking of peeling off it. Surely, no one needs to convince the palestinians of what's going on so they are in and welcome. neither are they (Palestinians) taken seriously as potential commentators on matters... more... - Danaa
Danaa, I appreciate your comment. One question--when American says that the rabbis argued for Jews to be a separate nation, I understand that may refer to many rabbis, but what about the rabbis of sects like Neturei Karta who have always said that Jews were forbidden from having a separate nation according to the Torah? Is that community very large? - weareone
weareone -- my impression (after studying the subject in some depth) is that the influence of the ultra-Orthodox anti-Zionist community in the larger mainstream Jewish community in the United States, Europe and Israel is so negligible as to be nonexistent. They have been effectively marginalized by the Jewish establishment -- they have no chance whatever of gaining political traction. - Sean McBride
Thanks Sean--I think it's interesting that even though they've been marginalized by the Jewish establishment and even if their numbers are small, they seem to be very well known and respected by anti-zionists internationally. Perhaps that recognition will begin to occur in the US, as well, as the numerous veils covering the truths of Zionism and the Jewish establishment's involvement in it are being removed. - weareone
A major problem the ultra-Orthodox are facing in promoting their views -- they are poorly integrated into the most influential institutions that dominate American and European elite and mass opinion -- they possess little political leverage. - Sean McBride
wearone, first, neturei karta is a tiny sect among the ultra-orthodox, though admittedly they get a lion share of public attention. They are and were not the only ultra-orthodox sect that were decidedly not ready for a zionist state, but the majority of the ultra's have long ago crossed the line to the Rubicon. - Danaa
Your other question - about the rabbis: yes, throughout the middle ages the teaching was that jews are a separate people (they did not use the word "nation" and certainly not in the sense it is used today in English). The admonition for Jews to stay "a people apart" was absolutely crucial to preventing assimilation. It should not come as a surprise that even post-enlightenement many... more... - Danaa
It may also interest you to know, wearone (and I did not study the issue in any depth. I just have first hand knowledge) that in israel itself, the neturei-karta sect are held in rather low esteem. They are considered as a kind of a joke - waiting for the messiah to show up on a white donkey and all. I think they became heroes to anti-zionists which kind of gave the movement new life.... more... - Danaa
"These remarks by Shabtai Shavit, a former head of Mossad, are typical" Nothing new about these remarks. It isn't religious Zionism, it is Zionism -- yes, the tribal culture development from a religion is to blame -- as a whole that calls for holy war. Zionist thinkers from the beginning have called for holy war even though they don't use the language like ISIS. They have been doing it... more... - peacefly
Judaism was the original religion. Zionism is the old religion founded on paranoia, tribe, and so accommodates atheists and believers alike. From Chomsky to Golstein. Now secularists like the former Mossad head are getting worried because the new wave of Zionism, which is getting overwhelming input from the religious whose religious upbringing has come in a Zionist bubble, is not... more... - peacefly
Thanks for the comments Danaa. As you mentioned, I'm aware that in Israel, anti-Zionist orthodox Jews are marginalized, even persecuted. - weareone
Sean McBride
1. Yemen 2. Pakistan 3. Chad 4. Syria 5. Mali 6. Iran 7. Cote d'Ivoire 8. Lebanon 9. Jordan 10. Morocco - Sean McBride
"The WEF’s 2014 Global Gender Gap Report measured disparities between men and women in 142 countries. In the worst-scoring nations, economic and educational opportunities, as well as political representation and health outcomes, were far worse for women than for men. Yemen, the worst country, has been the lowest ranked nation in the report since 2006, when the WEF began measuring gender inequality. Based on the WEF report, 24/7 Wall St. reviewed the 10 worst countries for women." - Sean McBride
"The countries with with the worst gender inequality consistently failed to give the female residents the same access to educational opportunities that they gave to the male residents. In many of these nations, disparities were clear as early on as primary school. For example, in Chad, just 55% of school-aged girls were enrolled in primary school, among the worst rates in the world and far worse still than the 71% for boys. Côte d’Ivoire, Pakistan, and Yemen also had large disparities in enrollment." - Sean McBride
Sean, consider the source. The WEF is a group of billionaires and corporate criminals. Do you think they might have an agenda regarding those 10 countries? Also, I haven't found the Huffington Post to be any different from the usual msm mouthpieces of disinformation. - weareone
How did they get the stats wrong? For instance: "In Chad, just 55% of school-aged girls were enrolled in primary school." False? What are the best sources on this kind of data? - Sean McBride
I'm not sure what the best sources for this kind of data are---it's not something that I have investigated. My point is, given the history of the WEF, I wouldn't trust their data. If you're interested in this subject it might require some research to locate reliable sources. - weareone
Well, I am curious to know how the best data on this subject shakes out -- WEF provides one starting point that can be challenged. I would like to see the challenges. What are the most important statistical indicators on which to focus? Education, income, health, etc. strike me as being significant. - Sean McBride
Ditto wao....you cant take anything put out today on face value--you have to look at who put it out, if its an org or agency you have to look at the board, the executives and etc..and then investigate their individual backgrounds including other orgs they belong, corps they may be affiliated with, invested in or work for. You may discover no agenda but then again you may discover an agenda. - American
I've found that to be true, American. I would probably start with information provided by each country rather than an outside source, especially one with a globalist agenda. - weareone
Everyone has an agenda -- but the validity of the data that all parties promote can be objectively examined and evaluated. Just because a political opponent asserts a particular fact doesn't mean that the assertion isn't true. - Sean McBride
Agreed. I'm just saying the information that's provided in the posted article may not be accurate, given that particular source, so further investigation may be required. It should not be assumed that the information is accurate. - weareone
I agree -- I am looking for informed pushback against this article, from other sources -- with an emphasis on "informed." The comments on Huffington Post, by the way, are mostly useless -- vague insults hurled back and forth. Let's look at the best data. Some bigots are using the WEF data to confirm their hostility towards Muslims, Arabs and blacks. - Sean McBride
If you find any other interesting sources, let us know. It seems we have to sift through so much fiction to find a kernel of truth these days. :) - weareone
I am paying attention to the feedback on this article -- by all means research it yourself and post what you discover. - Sean McBride
A starting point for statistical sources: [Google; nations statistics http://www.google.com/#q=nati...] - Sean McBride
Look at that Huffington Post list again. I find it hard to believe that secular Syria, tolerant Jordan, and half Christian Lebanon (Israel's neighbors) are worse than Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, and the other gulf countries for women. - WJones
Of course that line of thinking is not too positive from the standpoint of softening the focus on Muslim and Arab cultures regarding their treatment (sometimes mistreatment?) of women. - Sean McBride
Did you miss Congo? This is one heck of a non-list. Where's Saudia Arabia, the closest ally of Israel in the Middle East? - peacefly
By all means, let's see some high-quality counterlists. - Sean McBride
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