"Giving your email account password to a social network site so they can look up your friends is the same thing as going to dinner and giving your ATM card and PIN code to the waiter when it’s time to pay."
- Andy Brett
"I don't need some pencilneck with four Ph.D's, one-thousand hours of simulator time, and the ability to operate a robot crane in low-Earth orbit. I need someone with four years of broad-but-humanities-focused studies, three subsequent years in temp jobs, and the ability to reason across multiple areas of study."
- Andy Brett
This is the most bizarre thing I've seen in a while. I call it "Ode to the Excavator" - which has been anthropomorphized for some reason. "Other trucks can dig - oh yes - but not like this machine." cc @brian.j.lindvall
- Andy Brett
Setting aside price, what is the best 4-person car? (assuming safety, reliability, and fun are all important, and it should have a real standard transmission, not the kind with buttons)
Yeah, I really like my current bmw 3, but it's a '97 and I'm thinking of getting a new car. Is there anything better than bmw? A lot of people seem to like Audi.
- Paul Buchheit
Also, would a bmw 5 or 6 be better? Also, are there any convertibles that aren't noisy and annoying when the top is up? (which is probably most of the time)
- Paul Buchheit
You should look at the various hardtop convertibles, because they should be pretty quiet with the top up.
- Gabe
I hear they're redesigning the 5-series for '11 and the design, I think, is a lot better. I'm guessing a 5 or 6 series (esp. M5, M6) would be more fun :) EDIT: link to 2011 5-series look: http://www.insideline.com/bmw...
- Dan Hsiao
I don't think BMW has released sales info yet. I think they usually release in Europe first, and US later. (They do have the offer where you can go pick it up in Munich...). I read somewhere that it should be released "early 2010".
- Dan Hsiao
if you plan to wait for the 2011 bmw you might as well wait for the 2011 9-5 as well ... i'm sure both will be great cars - the 9-5 was supposed to be a 2010, but the sale of saab held up production... they just recently started up production - spyker takes ownership on monday
- Chris Heath
I recently spent many hours driving and riding in an Audi A4 S-Line in Europe on the Autobahn and in small villages. Very nice, very comfortable, great handling and perfectly poised up to 100mph. Not saying I'd pick it if price were no object but was definitely impressed with Audi's execution of a (near?) luxury sedan.
- Hayes Haugen
Can you still get a standard transmission in a BMW? All the ones I've seen recently have paddle shifters.
- Gabe
Paul, I have a 335i hardtop convertible and a 2010 Audi s4. The convertible is definitely noisier than a regular 3 series coupe or sedan although still pretty acceptable. The difference is most noticeable under 40 mph. At highway speeds there is less of a difference. It's not really a four person car though -- the back seats are difficult to access and rather uncomfortable. Compared to...
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- Simon
I like my convertible Ford Mustang - totally fun, fairly safe, and reliable
- Jesse Stay
Are Maserati and Aston Martin actually reliable though Cristo? Someone on Twitter says "Mercedes C230" -- are Mercedes good? It seems that I also heard about them having serious reliability problems.
- Paul Buchheit
MB is garbage. I recommend a Infiniti g37 4 door. I have one and LOVE it.
- Jeff (Team マクダジ )
from iPhone
If you buy a Maserati or an Aston Martin, I think the last thing on your mind is reliability. Has anybody mentioned the Porsche Panamera yet?
- Scoble, Alex Scoble
The Audi's manual says not to drive more than 130mph for the initial “break-in” period.
- Amit Patel
I think Mercedes' reliability has improved some in the past couple years. They have some pretty nice sporty coupes that seem fun (E, CLS, and CL class coupes). Though someone told me before that Mercedes had stopped selling standard transmission vehicles in the US.
- Dan Hsiao
I love my Mini Cooper Clubman--and it's truly a 4 person car....sporty--fun as hell to drive and 33mpg--and the kid gets in and out easily from the back with the extra door. They are also releasing a 4 door "crossover" called the countryman next year and it looks awesome!
- Kelly W.
I've never heard of the panamera. Is it good? Is there someplace I can go to see all of these cars at the same time?I went to a show in sj a few years back, but it looks like maybe that only happens in Jan.
- Paul Buchheit
from iPhone
Öyle soru mu olur Paul yaa? Mühendis adamsın, yakışıyor mu sana?
- mcd
I like my 3-series, but the Panamera is probably worth looking at if you want something bigger. It's kinda ugly, and not really what Porsche does best, but it should be reliable. How about a Jaguar XF?
- Nick Lothian
(What's a "standard" transmission?)
- Nick Lothian
Nick: Did you just put Jaguar so close to the word 'reliable'?
- Gabe
I really like my new Audi A4. You are free to drive it sometime if you want. It drove much better than the BMW 3 series automatics I tried out.
- Bret Taylor
Apparently Jaguar has recently improved a lot with reliability, beating Lexus, Honda etc: "Buick and Jaguar each rank highest in vehicle dependability in a tie, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2009" http://www.autoblog.com/2009...
- Simon
I have a Buick Enclave very pleased with it after 10K miles
- WarLord
I love my 328ic BMW, coincidentally it is also '97. I can not find anything that I like better then 335 coupe. Choosing between 335i and 335xi.
- ✔ ǝuǝƃnǝ
@Cristo - I think modern Jaguar's are ok. But I have to admit when I saw a video of how the auto transmission pops up from the console I wondered how long that would keep working.
- Nick Lothian
A friend of mine just told me that BMW is phasing out stick-shifts. This could be the last year for stick-shits on the M-series.
- Gabe
@Andy, I'm pretty sure that is the trend that most manufacturers are moving in. When they look at sales figures, the number of drivers (even of sports cars) that prefer to shift their own gears is much smaller than the number who prefer the speed and simplicity of automatic manuals.
- no name
Cristo: The kind of transmissions that you get in a BMW M5, for example, were actually pioneered in F1 cars. It has clutches and lets you select which gear to be in, so it's a manual transmission, but doesn't use a stick to select a gear or clutch pedal, so it's not a stick-shift.
- Gabe
I want to get to the point in life where I can start a sentence like that: "Setting aside price".
- Josh Haley
Would getting two two-person cars count? Or four motorcycles?
- Jim Norris
5 Series Gran Turismo only auto 8spd or Lotus Evora is a 2+2 and reliability is way better these days
- Yant
M5 has optional manual tranny but you wouldn't want it unless you really think you can do better than the paddles... but very few people can. after driving a paddle-shifter I've decided that it's just as fun as all the manual cars I've driven, albeit with a bit of effort to learn not to try to put my foot on the clutch. For the M5, I'd suggest keyless entry, rear side impact airbags, automatic high beams, multi-function seats, split fold-down rear seat...
- mjc
@Cristo, paddles are just as fun in a car like that :P
- mjc
I think I'd avoid SMG in the M5. It's always had mixed reviews, and BMW is using an updated version (DCT) in the newer M3 (and presumably the next M5). http://www.bimmerfile.com/2008...
- Nick Lothian
Volkswagen Golf BlueMotion 1.6 TDI 105PS, 99g/km CO2, average of 4l/100km, elected safest car in 2009 by Euro NCAP, 5 door version, mine arrives next week
- Lode Nachtergaele
I don't think you can get a TDI in California, can you?
- Gabe
dude get yourself the biggest mercedes and STFU :)I if money plays no role such a topic is ridiculous. go for the best then..not that difficult or? and the cream of modern automotif industry can be found at mercedes and audi. maybe bmw maybe lexus.
- Chris Hofmann
the interiors of ferrari are pretty ridiculous. either they are hardcore sporty (reduced to the max) or you find cheap plastic parts all over the place (same airvent systems as in lowgrade fiats, and so on), but ya they are sporty cars no doubt...its a matter of taste i guess. since paul asked for a 4 person car i guessed he would like to have the comfort of a limousine. and the germans rock in that regard.
- Chris Hofmann
I believe the Audi S4 is very fun to drive, pretty safe, but not that reliable.
- Matt Cutts
we still drive an old-ish BMW 5 series, one with the funky diesel engine. Enjoyable to drive, super safe and comfy. Fun? depends what you expect - enjoyable certainly. Anything we ever rent falls short
- Iphigenie
@Gary: I have the A3, and am very happy with it. I keep looking for other cars but haven't found anything I like better. The A4 seems boring. I agree, the S4 might be more fun. Safety ratings are really good. I get 34mpg on long trips. And it's been very reliable. There are a few complaints though. My A3 doesn't have memory for seat positions so I can't save separate settings for me and...
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- Amit Patel
Four doors and a manual transmission? That's easy. A BMW E60 M5.
- Mark Davidson
Christopher A Carr: Paul is looking for a daily driver. A Ferrari isn't designed for that, so even though you could cart your wife and 2 kids around in one, it would be a hassle. Remember that low maintenance is one of his criteria. See http://www.sportscarmarket.com/article...
- Gabe
@Gary: I have the 2.0 TFSI. front wheel drive. I would've gotten Quattro but they didn't offer it the first year. I don't drive as fast as Paul and I think that contributes to my getting 34. :) Yes, kids fit in the back easily. And with the windowed roof option they can look up and see the sky.
- Amit Patel
@Matt, the past s4 models seemed fairly reliable according to edmunds, but perhaps there's a difference between theory and practice? (scroll down to "long term ratings"): http://www.edmunds.com/new...
- Simon
The Aston Martin looks really cool, but I'm skeptical that these exotics are practical (in addition to being kind of expensive). I'd rather have a Civic than a Ferrari that's in the shop all the time. Also, on the topic of manual vs auto, it's just taste -- manual is more fun to drive, even if the auto is higher performance -- I'm not racing or anything. So what is the best way to see all of these cars without having to wait until next year's auto show?
- Paul Buchheit
Have a party. Invite all your friends, family and neighbor and ask them to bring their cars you're researching. The test drive them during your party.
- imabonehead
Steve, we have a minivan for the kids and don't yet own a farm :)
- Paul Buchheit
Do you care about 4-door vs 2-door, Paul? Everybody always goes to the BMW/Merc/Audi stuff, but it seems like there's nice cars out there with a stick like the Lexus IS, Infiniti G37, Acura TL.. maybe even the Hyundai Genesis... but at the top of the line seems like they usually go with paddles these days.
- Ken Sheppardson
the G37 sport (G37S) is pretty nice as well ken, I agree, but not in the same class. not including price makes this a different ballgame. ...
- mjc
Well, it is and it isn't. The stick requirement rules out a ton of high end, more expensive paddle-shifted stuff. It's a bit like asking what's the best luxury sedan with cloth seats.
- Ken Sheppardson
Todd, saab was sold to Spyker (dutch supercar company) - the deal was inked last week - it's done - Spyker takes ownership tomorrow (march 1st)
- Chris Heath
Another thing to consider is how important that the car is a rear wheel drive? Have you considered an AWD with a variable distribution like BMW's xDrive? Both answers will definitely help you to narrow down your choices.
- ✔ ǝuǝƃnǝ
I think the Aston Martin Rapide may be the best looking 4-door in existence. Unfortunately it has an automatic transmissions and is kind of pricy. If the Panemera looked like that instead of being ugly, I would have to consider it.
- Paul Buchheit
My dad owns http://www.lexus.com/models..., and it is really great. It is extremely powerful, but gets pretty normal gas mileage because of the hybrid engine. The nav system and computer is also really nice - Toyota/Lexus has by far the best UI for that system relative to other luxury brands. I love the adaptive cruise control and other gizmos.
- Bret Taylor
It looks like the "IS" is the only Lexus that offers a stick-shift, and the Toyota nav system left me quite unimpressed compared to Honda's.
- Gabe
Manual transmissions are surprisingly rare on these cars. So far it seems that only the BMW (many models), Audi S5, and Porche Panamera have them. The Audi S6, Lexus (I don't see a manual option on Edmunds), Jaguar, MB, etc are all auto. People are missing out.
- Paul Buchheit
What about the Acura TL or TSX, Infiniti G37 6MT, Lexus IS10, and Cadillac CTS-V? They all seem to have 6-speed stick-shift options.
- Gabe
None of those look that interesting (they all seem inferior to the bmw, for example).
- Paul Buchheit
Well what makes one interesting, then? For example, why is the Audi S5 okay but not the S4?
- Gabe
Yeah, the S4 may be interesting as well, though apparently it's of an older generation than the A4 (not yet updated).
- Paul Buchheit
The new generation S4 has been available for a few months now -- I bought one and am really pretty happy with it.
- Simon
Nissan GT-R Coupe AWD is superhot! Six-speed dual-clutch automatic-manual transmission
- momonalona
The Lexus IS 250 has a stick, but its targeted at the BMW 3-series. How 'bout the Maserati Quattroporte?
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken: I doubt any Italian car meets the "reliability" criterion.
- Gabe
Sorta seems to me "reliability" can mean different things to different people. In the old days, I think it really meant "am I going to be able to drive it for 10 years without racking up lots of money on major repairs as stuff not designed to last 100K miles starts to fail?" These days, however, when we're talking, what, a 2-3yr lease, are there really that many "unreliable" $60-100K+ cars out there?
- Ken Sheppardson
There is a guy near here with a Quattroporte - it's a nice looking car. A fair few people on ferrarichat.com seem to think it's reliable (of course, these are people who are use a Ferrari for a daily driver, so their standard of reliability may be questionable). The manual transmission on the Quattroporte is the preferred choice too - for a long time it didn't have an automatic.
- Nick Lothian
The Alfa 159 is a wonderful looking car, and has a manual, and it's roughly 3-series size & price - not sure if you want something bigger.
- Nick Lothian
Heck, just a regular Cadillac CTS '08 and newer would be a really nice choice too
- Chris Heath