Giancarlo Angulo - Likes

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There was a lot of chatter about the future of FriendFeed this weekend. The short answer is that the team is working on a couple of longer-term projects that will help bring FriendFeedy goodness to the larger world. Transformation is not the end. Consider this the chrysalis stage -- if all goes well, a beautiful butterfly will emerge :)

October 19 - Comment - Like - Share

Alfredo, Fabrizio, david beckwith and 243 other people liked this

What is transforming... FriendFeed, or the idea of FriendFeed? - Christopher Galtenberg

117 more comments

Thanks for the update, Paul! - Anne Bouey

THANK YOU! - teh Dork Knight aka Kenny

Fabulous News :) - Susan Beebe

Noticed the "leaked" Facebook UI screenshots and the groups blog post today, and both seem FriendFeed inspired: nice to see Facebook trying to bring the stuff we like about FriendFeed to a larger audience. - Mark Trapp

To Robert Scoble: I told you so ;-) - Jesse Stay

Sounds like they're adding some of FF's features to FaceBook. yay - Internet's Tad from fftogo

Mark - got link? - Susan Beebe

Thanks Paul :) - ashish

Devil is in the details: "couple of longer-term projects that will help bring FriendFeedy goodness to the larger world" == Facebook projects with FriendFeed-like elements == no work on FriendFeed itself. - EricaJoy

Paul, FriendFeed rocks as Gmail does ;) - Orlando Pozo

Thanks for the update, the more you communicate, the less we have to speculate. - Peter Hoffmann

The fact that these improvements are coming to Facebook and not friendfeed will not sway those who like friendfeed but dislike Facebook. - Alex Scoble

Thank you Paul for bringing "FriendFeed goodness to the larger world" -- THAT sounds awesome!! - Susan Beebe

integration with facebook? - Rocco Galluzzo

@Alex Scoble: That's true - Jorge Escobar

Susan: http://blog.facebook.com/blog... and http://mashable.com/2009... - Mark Trapp

I hope out of the chrysalis emerges an infested Kerrigan. That'd be awesome http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki... - Ivan Kirigin

Thanks Mark, much appreciated... I'll check those out - Susan Beebe

+1 Ivan :) - Benjamin Golub

But we knew this was the deal the moment the full details of the purchase of friendfeed by Facebook became public. - Alex Scoble

Yeah, I don't give a crap about Facebook. I want to know about FriendFeed. - Rochelle

Is it the interface people dislike about Facebook or the people they're friends with on Facebook? I can imagine being able to import all your subscribers from FriendFeed and have them in a separate group that doesn't interact with other groups you may have on Facebook. - Cristo

sadly, no one with any power seems to care about FF anymore. - Joe Silence is not dead

I'm glad to hear this. I prefer FriendFeed to Facebook any day of the week. - Nathan Clayton

And the answer for me would be some of both. I have real life friends and family that I don't necessarily want to get into the same discussions with as I do with people here. - Cristo

And there's your answer, Rochelle. friendwho? friendwhat now? Oh, you mean Facebook! (No I mean friendfeed) friendwho? (rinse, lather, repeat) - Alex Scoble

there are some ui differences (and i tend to prefer friendfeed in those cases) but i have friended quite a few FF people in FB and the experience is remarkably similar in many ways. - Jason Wehmhoener

Another big difference is I don't think you get the same FOAF interaction on Facebook as on FriendFeed. - Cristo

yep - Jason Wehmhoener

I hope my FaceBook peeps are ready for the FriendFeed firehose ... past experience would say that they're in for a shock. - Crutis

Thanks for the transparency on the Friendfeed "ghost town" matter Paul. Much appreciated. - Alex Knight

Thanks Paul... bring the special sauce to Facebook: http://blogs.zdnet.com/weblife... - Andrew

I like the "chrysalis stage" analogy - sounds cool.... goes an looks for FF goodness butterfly! - Susan Beebe

Good to know that FriendFeed still has some fight left; hope that translates into a viable and sustainable platform/utility for the masses (though I quite enjoy the close-knit, uber-geek community that it's become). - Christian

I don't like the chrysalis analogy. The butterfly emerges from the chrysalis and buggers off leaving the shell. Of course, it might then also get eaten by a bird. Tweet, tweet. - Mark H

Mark LOL nice, ... haha - Susan Beebe

Note that he didn't say that FriendFeed.com was going away, only that they're diverted to bringing it to a much larger audience - Jesse Stay

The problem is Scoble (Robert) and MG both just sent half of FriendFeed away so most of those that would benefit from this announcement won't even see it. - Jesse Stay

Jesse, I didn't get that from Paul's comment. I read that some of the friendfeed ideas will be going into FB. I like that idea, but I still prefer FF to FB because of the different conversations here that I don't have with friends and family. - Travis Koger from iPhone

Yeah, Paul's statement won't help friendfeed. This will just either give people more reason to go to Facebook or find another service entirely. - Alex Scoble

What Alex and Rochelle said. This sounds like a "we're bringing FF to Facebook" announcement, and I don't give a damn about Facebook. I want to know what's happening HERE. And Cristo, both, but more the interface. I care about the friends I've made here, and I'm connected with many of them now on Facebook as well, but I prefer to interact with them here, because I like it better. - Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF

Travis, he didn't say that - you read that, but he didn't say that. I'm willing to bet FriendFeed.com will not go away. - Jesse Stay

As much as I agree about Scoble and MG driving people away, they have also effectively flush out some comment from the FF team. - Travis Koger from iPhone

Travis, there are better ways of getting the FF team to comment - Jesse Stay

:( I quite liked the caterpillar. - Nick Lothian

I think it's the opposite, the butterfly is becoming this crawling caterpillar :) - Jorge Escobar

Oh I don't think FF will go away, and damn will hope it doesn't either! - Travis Koger from iPhone

What I do see is more Facebook integrated into the FriendFeed environment - I think that's a good thing - Jesse Stay

The critical difference between Facebook and FriendFeed is the social model. With Facebook as it is today, you need to be mutual friends to see each others content. There is a "fan page" model but it is oriented toward "publishing/celebrity" rather than information sharing. FriendFeed has an asymmetric model like Twitter, where you can easily discover someone's content without any "friend" gesture whatsoever, and you can follow without friending. This makes the converation more discoverable, and useful.. - Adina Levin

Agree Adina. - Travis Koger from iPhone

If the integration is bringing public/asymmetric to Facebook, then it will be very useful indeed. If the integration is to add FriendFeed-style service integration into the symmetric/private Facebook model, it will be much less useful - it's more of the same - I'll be able to more easily share updates from youtube or last.fm or delicious to my friend network, but be unable to discover new people and infomation. - Adina Levin

Adina: And unless Facebook goes radically toward that model, it won't suffice for me. I could not care less about their upcoming redesigns. - Christopher A Carr

@Jesse - I can't see any sign that they are working on FriendFeed at all. All the indications are that the FF team is now working on Facebook, and only Facebook. That's great for Facebook, and I'm sure they will do wonderful work there. But don't delude yourself that FriendFeed is going to get anything more than critical fixes, and maybe the occasional thing done in someone's spare time. - Nick Lothian

Butterflies look totally different than caterpillars and they also fly away - Melanie Reed

Crickets chirping... is this site alive?? :) - Christopher Galtenberg

+100 Adina. The things I like best about FriendFeed (easy content/people discovery, FoaF, asymmetrical following and being followed) are completely opposite to Facebook's core model. That's why as much as people keep talking about Facebook adding FF-like features, I don't see the REAL FF core features making it over, because the mindset is different. - Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF

I don't see this announcement as anything new, or as reassuring. We knew from the time of the acquisition that there would be would be some movement of FF capabilities into FB. The real question is whether this means absorption of FF into FB or attracting the FB user base into FF. The comment about "bring[ing] FriendFeedy goodness to the larger world" still leaves that question open. - John (a.k.a. dendroica)

+1 everything Alex Scoble has said. Friendwhat? What's a feed? Who uses RSS anymore? We've got PubSubWTFOMGBBQ now! - Mr. Gunn

Agree with Jandy on +100 Adina. - Amy℠

Also, I agree with Jandy and Adina's comments. - John (a.k.a. dendroica)

Nick, Paul just said they're working on other projects right now. That still doesn't mean FriendFeed is going away. I'm not deluding myself at all. I'm telling everyone else they're deluding themselves by assuming it's going away. All the FriendFeed team is still using FriendFeed, and Paul just tried to give us comfort not to worry. For some reason we all don't want to believe him. It's actually kind of amusing. - Jesse Stay

I wonder what the powers that be mean by "FriendFeedy goodness"? Is it understood what WE like about it vs. FB? - Amy℠

Paul - Wishing you all the best as you tend your new butterfly garden :) I'll be here to enjoy them! - Susan Beebe

Jesse: "For some reason we all don't want to believe him." <-- Don't want to believe what? He didn't really say anything. - Christopher A Carr

This is not the news that Friendfeed fans were looking for. - Vezquex: God of FF

The issue isn't belief that they are going to do something. The question is what they are going to do, and whether that will continue the core value of FriendFeed, which is not just information aggregation but discoverability. - Adina Levin

I know more about the "Last Days" and heaven than I know about what's going to happen to FriendFeed as we have come to know it than was given in your rather cryptic answer, Paul. :) And while that may not be a fair comparison (God actually gave details and signs), there is something definitely not forthcoming about your response. A person usually withholds details that affect another... more... - Melanie Reed

Melanie, in other words, Paul works for a technology company in Silicon Valley that doesn't disclose future features, products, and services until they are ready. - Cristo

Hopefully this helps to quiet all of the "friendfeed is dying" talk. Because this thread proves ff is alive and well. - Garin Kilpatrick

@Jesse - I read it differently to you. To me, Paul is saying "We are taking what we were working towards on FriendFeed, and trying to bring that goodness to a bigger audience". No one is claiming they are going to shut down FF. - Nick Lothian

@Jesse - Want to make a bet on the number of new features added to FF before the end of the year? - Nick Lothian

You read my mind. Having seen a few acquisitions, I am wondering if FF staff was told to put the site in bugfix mode. - EricaJoy from IM

Cristo, to deliver some straightforward talk is not about giving away company details. If you have a product that is original and stands on its own, you don't need to refer to it as a "butterfly". Many companies even promote something new and upcoming especially to their loyal user base. It gives a signal. A proper one. It tells your users and future users enough so that they can make an informed decision about what they want to do instead of keeping them on tenderhooks - Melanie Reed

"the chrysalis stage in most butterflies is one in which there is little movement" (via wikipedia) So if you follow that metaphor then eventually FriendFeed will go through a metamorphosis -- that means it's not dead... really how hard can it be to get what he's saying? - Chris Heath

Its pretty hard :) The burning question is if they are putting FF goodness in to the walled gardens that are Facebook or are they bringing FF openness to FB too. I think the people here want the open forums that are FF not the closed ones that are FB. If FB is going hybrid with both walled gardens and open forums that would be OK too. People on FF want open forums... like Twitter and FF... without the crude interface that is Twitter and without the uncertainty that is FF now. - Ed Millard

Facebook is gonna have to rip off much of the privacy to maximize their product in the real-time web world. I am going to assume FF goodness is going to be applied to FB :) *crosses fingers* - Susan Beebe

Just a thought... why does "longer-term projects that will help bring FriendFeedy goodness to the larger world" JUST mean facebook.com? What I get from this is that they are working on a range of things, maybe bringing the FriendFeed sauce to a range of sites, powered by the Facebook back end. Who knows what that means. A FriendFeed service powered by FacebookConnect? Also to...... more... - Johnny Worthington

LMFAO. Johnny++ - Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah

FB needs to leave the privacy for the walled garden and the inner circle. Their current user base likes that. They just need a second feed that is an open forum and you can talk there without it bleeding in to your inner circle feed. - Ed Millard

Seems like the inner circle is breaking down some now, what with parents and other relatives friending teenagers. I'm guessing the information posted on the walls these days is not as private. Is there a way on FriendFeed to limit what on your wall can be seen by particular people and groups? - Cristo

Yes, but blocking doesn't work so well since you can just use Chrome's Incognito mode to get around it. - Alex Scoble

Translation: if you haven't switche to Facebook yet, you better do it now so you can get a good vanity URL. - David Chartier from iPhone

I don't know what all the fuss is about. But could we have the long answer too, please? - Laura Norvig

Although I'm interested, FB != FF. I don't see how the two mix in a way that makes me feel otherwise. Mixing audiences is not a good thing for me (with a few exceptions) and I know others share the same thought. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Did anyone notice that Robert Scoble didn't comment on this thread? What does this mean? Does it mean Robert Scoble won't exist soon? He must be working on a Monday afternoon, no? ;) - Cristo

Paul, will FF be here in 1 year, 5 years? - Robert Higgins

Robert, will you and I be alive in 5 years? - Cristo

Thanks for the update Paul.. - Chris Myles

Cristo I am funking nobody, I would like Paul to quantify his post. Simple. Will FF be here in 1 year? Will FF be here in 5 years? - Robert Higgins

Robert, I was trying to make the point that he might not know and can't predict what will happen over time. - Cristo

IMO friendfeed shoud attract more general audience... Facebook and twitter are having more general users. Most of the FF users are tech bloggers or those who needs aggregation services... I dont know it's just my feeling or not . but this is my impression on FF. but it's great service.. the features are too good... but we will roam were we meet our friends... thats most of the people are into twitter and FB. - Sarath

Sarath, is there a place you can get away from tech bloggers? :) - Cristo

Ohhhh a perrrttty butterfly, I'm moist with anticipation. - sofarsoShawn

Glad to hear it, Paul. - WorldofHiglet

Cristo: i almost made the same observation an hour or two ago when i first read through this posting and its comments. I was skimming and kept seeing alex, alex, alex... and thinking to myself... where's Robert!?! - Chris Heath

Great news. Thanks! friendfeed team. :D - 'Like' robot (frɐnc)

@Sarath - I have a lot more in common with the people I've met here on FriendFeed than FB or Twitter. Twitter is too hard to search, and FB (and Twitter to a good extent) is driven by the people you know in RL (and unfortunately I don't have nearly as much in common in RL with my family, co-workers and acquaintences as I do with people scattered all over the world who I have met on FF).... more... - Lindsay

I think that in his cryptic statement he means, and a lot of people here agree with me, that more Facebook's going to get more FriendFeedy. Which doesn't mean that FF still isn't dead or doomed. After all, he works for Facebook now. FriendFeed=open forum, Facebook=walled garden, totally opposite master metaphors; but I don't think Zuckerberg gets it, and FF belongs to Zuckerberg now. So this is really about FB; FF's still in limbo. Still, some FF people friended me at FB, and I put them in a special list. - Dennis Jernberg

@FF-team keep on rocking :). BTW I also think it's really cool you guys open-sourced tornado. - alfred westerveld

+1 what alfred said, and good to hear words like "longer-term" & "beautiful" coming straight from The Walrus - keep that vision strong. Hope all goes well for FF team doing some good re-inventing the Octopus Garden of FB - seems you've got your work cut out for you there! It would be so nice if any way to keep a "simple & pure" form of FriendFeed alive (maintained and developed - more open source?) for us to enjoy, but no worries .... you've simultaneously raised the bar and paved the way for the rest! - Dan Freeman

Good luck with the development Paul! Hopefully Zuck has some positive insight. - Garin Kilpatrick

I like butterflies. - Harold Cabezas

Paul: If someone offered me a bag of money to do what you guys did, I would have done exactly the same (probably a lot faster too). However, it would be nice if you spent an hour answering some of the questions here. It might also give people like me a little more faith, in what used to be your primary project; Friendfeed. You made the best platform on the planet - why not use it to let us know what the heck's going on? - Jim Connolly

I'm assuming that Facebook wants to keep their roadmap quiet. I respect that but leaving you community in the dark for a brand that the applications stand for community building is rather ironic. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

SUPER!! I don't Blame ya 1 Darn bit fer Dumpin' FacePOOP Paul!! ;PPP Wait FacePOOP is the Maggot Stage!! ;)) - Billy Warhol

If I can still have all my friends that I have here on friendfeed and share things with them the exact same way, I don't care what "www" address I have to type in to get it. I just hope i don't have to give up any of FF's awesome features! Thanks for the update Paul! - David Cook

The problem is I don't know whether to wrote an app on your API or not because i'm not sure whether it will all be dropped in the "transformation". Imagine speding late nights and weekends coding something up only for it to be dropped suddenly. Need a decent long term picture. Looking at Cliqset. - Steven Livingstone-Pérez

Good point Steven - and one of the reasons many of us are spending so little time developing our networks here. - Jim Connolly

waiting.... - ffcode

ffcode: Good luck with that ;-) - Jim Connolly

So the changes are at Facebook not FriendFeed, Paul? - Kol Tregaskes

And good luck to all of your team - Ozkan Altuner from iPhone

This is a truly disappointing/concerning post and I think it would have been much better to hold comment until something more tangible could be discussed. Thanks for adding to the confusion/drama Paul. - Nicholas Kreidberg

yemezler - MobilAdam

I do care about what happens next, but this is the best news of the day nonetheless ! thanks for giving us updates at last ! and I do hope FF will awaken again ! such a great tool, but letdown since the announcement of the buyback by FB - laetSgo

will I see this post in my "best of week" email from FF? - Kirill Bolgarov

If Facebook is going to get fixed, please remember that it needs fixing politically, not just technically. It needs to give people the option to open their data to Google - for instance. A walled garden where the walls are fixed in place sucks. - Tim Tyler

@Paul, or perhaps an Alien will erupt forth from its stomach? (kidding, kidding!) - j1m

what-if: vijay

What if... you could change the default color of hyperlinks? :-)

January 19 - Comment - Like - Share

Kol Tregaskes, AJ Batac and Giancarlo Angulo liked this

You can. Check your browser's options or use a user defined style sheet. - April Russo (app103)

5 more comments

April, I meant, what if you could decide the link color for the whole planet? :) - vijay

Well, if you get to decide and it isn't purple, I'll have to override it with my custom style sheet. :-P - April Russo (app103)

it better not be blue, blue is so boring - Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)

Blue used to be my favorite color, then I got Win98. (may sound funny, but it's really not a joke) - April Russo (app103)

^^ LMAO! - vijay

You will beg for bread - Nestor Talla

lew

FriendFeed's Path to Relevance - http://lewmoorman.com/friendf...

May 29 from beyond 140 for @lewmoorman - Comment - Like - Share

Chris Rogers, HealingBrush, Ho John Lee and 30 other people liked this

Interesting analysis. I have to think about this after I get some sleep. - Robert Scoble

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content should be pulled not pushed +1 - Kirill Bolgarov

FF seems like a v powerful platform that is "almost" there on a bunch of apps. a pretty good twitter reader-but as you say doesn't bring in my full twitter feed. a great commenting engine-but Scoble still picks Disqus for his blog comment engine. a group email engine that could replace egroups/yahoogroups-but lacks the simple invitation engine required for that. a powerful real-time search engine-but doesn't index all of twitter...so close on so many things - Tim Connors

Interesting take, I believe that "3. Allow users to import their RSS feeds so they come in the steam as well." is already possible now, as RSS into a FF Room (now "group"). Or do you mean as a 1-click import option? That would be useful I guess, a "import all my Google Reader feeds at once" option. Agreed that it would be great if there were an option to select Twitter users from an... more... - Alex Schleber

Alex is right. You can import any RSS you like (if it's not your own feed i suggest creating a group that is either public or semi public and adding the feed to that). Another thing... you CAN import twitter accounts for people not on friendfeed - Chris Heath

Chris, I think Lew is referring more to (semi-)automated import of larger numbers of Twitter users into a combined Room-type feed (if you want all your "following" in the so-called "with friends" feed, you can import that into e.g. Thunderbird. For FF it doesn't work b/c Twitter has that feed password secured). Right now the process is exceedingly manual... - Alex Schleber

Intriguing article. I would have to agree with one key element - it's far better to do one thing well than two things in a mediocre fashion. I don't see FF as a microblogging platform ... the features (that I have discovered thus far!) seem to make it a much better "aggregator of discussion". - Allan Besselink

Alex, yeah getting password protected RSS feeds into ff should be high up on the list of new features down the road - I know a lot of people have been asking for that. Also in regards to the 'import all my twitter friends not on friendfeed into a group' functionality ... AFAIK friendfeed does have a special firehose of all of twitter, but there's a special agreement on the use of it. - Chris Heath

I agree FF should try to be a better twitter client. This would be very useful. I also think it would be possible for them to become more useful than disqus for blog commenting. All we need is a good and easy to use wordpress plugin. - TobiasVerhoog.com

Totally disagree, the best posts on FF come from the Micro blogging. Just b/c it's not as popular does not mean that there isn't a market for a third competitor. I also don't buy into the FF is not growing meme. We need to see them stall for a year before I'm convinced that they are doing something wrong. As is, its the best social networking site out there. - Davis Freeberg

Susan Beebe to Susan's feed, Funny Pics and Videos

Burglar left bruised and bleeding by retired boxer, 72 - WOW! - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news...

June 30 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Jacob, chaz2b, Mitchell Tsai and 162 other people liked this

wow is right. - vijay

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Must've been Clint's brother - separated at birth - Capn' One Eye - adrift

Reminds me of the guy from Seinfeld. "IT'S GO TIME!" - Mike Smith

liking the " yeah? want a piece of me? " look he's giving. - vijay

DOH! Wrong house to burgle. - CW™

That is beyond badass - particularly when you consider that the guy has to tell people that an old man totally kicked his ass. - Brett Kelly

...say hello to my little friend? - Joshua Schnell

Ass. Whooped. - Derrick

Pwnd! - Susan Beebe

You do not mess with old man strength - Will Higgins™

The judge said the punk 'got what he deserved'. GOD BLESS THE UK. Also the punk said he 'didn't remember what happened'. Of course he didn't, he got KNOCKED THE F*CK OUT. - Will Higgins™

I imagine him standing over a bruised and bloody burglar saying "get off my lawn." The picture in my head is pretty epic. - Aaron Hood

Sorry, I got a little excited by how awesome this story is. The guy kinda does look like Clint, doesn't he? - Will Higgins™

Justice is served. :-D - Jason Huebel from iPhone

"The Price is Right, bitch!" - Captain Bubbles

Will - yep, he does have the classic Clint Eastwood look goin' on... "feel lucky punk? well, do ya?!" - Susan Beebe

lmao thats wat he gets for targeting an older person well done - eric

Bit of Sean Connery about him: "You must never hesitate." Well done. "You're the man now, dog." - Melanie Reed

way to deliver the beatdown! old dude shoulda feckin' made the kid's eyes match. - Joe Silence is not dead

I want to party with this guy. The old dude, I mean. :) - tinypants - Hagitha of FF

that's right b*tches - Caroline

Wow! Good for him.....I'm with Dead Silence! - Bonnie Foster

NIIIIIIICE! - Dobromir Hadzhiev

Good! - Mo Kargas

the retired boxer "caressed" the burglar very efficiently :) - Besim Dönmez

Haven't read the whole thread. In case it hasn't been stated more clearly: "Don't get into fist fights with boxers." If they are old boxers, and you have no skills, they will still kick your ass. Better bring a gun if you're a pussy. - Christopher A Carr

Do ya feel lucky punk? Well do ya? - Moved to Facebook

Wonderful justice right there. - Diego Barros 

justice is served - Greg from BuddyFeed

Instead of like, can I love this article? - Kreg Steppe

The authorities should stick this on lamposts - Bill Masson

Hang it up in what ever jail dining hall the Ass Whoopee is going to be doing his 30 days in. - Moved to Facebook from fftogo

I just love it when a bad guy gets this shit beat out of him. - Joey Gibson

love it! the old man is like, "how about I teach you a lesson, punk!" - Phil Maxwell

Justice baby - Chris Jackson

Owned! - Guilherme da Rosa

@Earl - he got 4.5 years for aggravated assault! - Daniel J. Pritchett

Owned! Wow! - Rick Cogley

A big virtual pat on the back there eh... :o) - Rob Sellen :o)

LOL Awesome! I wanna grow up to be just like him ;) - Paul OFlaherty

This made me smile, how awesome this little fart got what he was due. How dare he pick on the elderly and how wonderful the elderly did rearranging some youthful behavior. - Janet

+1 jlt, that kid won't soon forget this beating. Maybe he'll get a clue. - Jason Huebel

He got 4 and 1/2 years in prison along with the beat down. - Brent Smorgen Bleg

Ouch. he got rearranged alright. - Jim Hearts FF

OMG this made the top of the FF "Best of day" ... LOL - Susan Beebe

I love that the judge said he got what he deserved. Seriously, more older people should be this strong. Awesome. - Rick Cogley

awesome! - AJ Batac

"McCalium had denied the charge and claimed he could not remember what happened." After the knocks to the head he got I believe it. Good for you, old timer. Glad the UK has better laws than the US. If it were the US, the burglar might have sued and won. - Bradley Farless

That is why you finish the job here in the US and then place a pointy object in the assailants hand. More mess but less litigation. Odd how blind lady justice can be. - Mathew A. Koeneker

LOL - Cos

Ouch… :S - Daniel Schildt

Good Job Sir. He got what he asked for! - Usman Bashir

Kol Tregaskes to Kol's feed, TheNextWeb Forum, Crazy Gadgets

Waterproof computer for the really clumsy | DVICE - http://dvice.com/archive...

June 16 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Alfredo, Ekin Acar, Martin Bryant and 4 other people liked this

"While sitting in a hotel room working on my laptop, looking out at the pool and folks splashing about, it's normal to dream about a waterproof computer. Stealth Computers to the rescue. But, for the life of me, I can't figure out why it's a desktop computer. Wouldn't a laptop make more sense? From the video, I would say it's more for the accident-prone." - more info here: http://www.stealth.com/littlep... - Kol Tregaskes from Bookmarklet

2 more comments

Not if you live under the sea - glub glub - Brent Smorgen Bleg

:-) - Kol Tregaskes

Cool but risky product testing! - Kevin J Hatton

Thomas Hawk

June 16 from Zooomr - Comment - Like - Share

Kol Tregaskes and Giancarlo Angulo liked this

Lindsay

@evernote I so want that Sr. Web App Engineer job!! I have everything but Java (I do C#), & am one of your biggest fans/evangelists.

June 10 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Alfredo, Morton Fox, AJ Batac and 6 other people liked this

You go, Lindsay! - imabonehead

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If it weren't for Java I'd be an awesome candidate for it! And Java's just another language... - Lindsay

Transitioning from C# to Java (and vice versa) should be relatively easy. - imabonehead

Yeah, that's what I say! :) C# is just a better Java. - Lindsay

Lindsay, so go for it! - imabonehead

That'd be awesome! Do it! - Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF

I don't have a good online resume... sigh... almost tempted to take vacation time and make one... - Lindsay

Think of it as an investment of your future. - imabonehead

If I weren't already in the middle of two other side projects and trying to get my big project released at work next week... Can someone please clone me? - Lindsay

Aren't you a bit worried that your current employer would see this? :) - Jonas, Leper of FF

There offices are right next to the FriendFeed office. In fact they used to be the FriendFeed offices before they moved. - Rachel Lea Fox

@Jonas, hey, just because I'm employed doesn't mean I can't lust after my dream job! I LOVE Evernote and wish I had time to write all the extensions that I have brainstormed. Besides, it's unlikely that it would work out just because they're looking for someone with mainly Java experience, and it would be difficult for me to relocate to Mountain View anyway. So it's basically a fantasy anyway. - Lindsay

Robert Scoble

Interesting, Mike Arrington deleted the TechCrunch account on friendfeed. My additional thoughts are on mobs and this here:

June 7 - Comment - Like - Share

Liviu Barbat, Gordon Saunders, Simone Lovati and 181 other people liked this

be right back with more. - Robert Scoble

788 more comments

That makes me sad because it was my favorite tech blog to click "like" on. I talked with Mike this morning at an event and he said last night was one of the worst he's ever lived through with the amount of hatred aimed at him. He deleted 600 Techcrunch comments, too, he told me. - Robert Scoble

Wow, interesting. - Kevin Whalen

Some of the comments I've seen on both sides of the aisle are pretty damn repugnant. I've had that kind of stuff aimed at me in the past and it's never fun. - Robert Scoble

he pissed off Leo's hardcore fans - David Lloyd

wow, deleted the tc account. Scoble: what do you think are going to be the long term implications of this? - ming yeow

It just goes to show that people love to pay attention to negative things, but rarely to positives, or when people make efforts to make up for past misgivings. Sad, but human nature. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Funny, I remember helping push a mob against some people I really didn't like and a friend really ripped into me for doing that. My friend was right, of course. Interesting that not many people are speaking up against the kinds of comments (aimed personally, not at the substance of what happened). I want to be counted as one of those who stood up personally against the kind of comments I've seen. - Robert Scoble

600 hateful comments? Puts a knot in my stomach just thinking about it. Have had the occasional hate comments but never to that extent - David Weedmark

I didn't dig into those treads too much but imagine they got pretty nasty, probably more so on digg. too bad though, i used FF to find lots of TC content - sean percival

Mark: and Leo should call them back and tell them shame. The kinds of things I've seen against Mike (and some against Leo too) are just awful. People saying that Mike should get cancer and die and worse. - Robert Scoble

That seems weird.. Why would anyone delete an account on FF. Were they a lot of hateful comments posted to his account? - Bindu Reddy

thats fucked up Robert. - David Lloyd

David: Given the number of people who hate Arrington's guts, 600 doesn't seem too bad. Just one person harassing you over a period of years over the net (as I've had) is much worse than 600 random people digging at you once and then going away. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Very strange... Was it hacked? - Hugo Romano

But don't you think due to a LOT of pent up frustration against Mike? His attitude has always been a point of contentment amongst lots of people i know. - ming yeow

Bindu: Mike is actually a pretty sensitive guy beneath a lot of bluster. I'm to blame for pushing the friendfeeders to poke at Mike. - Robert Scoble

ming: there's some of that that's Mike's fault too. But when mobs happen they always go overboard. - Robert Scoble

SCOBLE: I was the one who posted the video on youtube (MPB326) that everyone has been linking to and I have gotten the 700+ comments to my email account. I can't believe some of the stupid things people are saying on YouTube. Terrible stuff! I was actually thinking about deleting the video. - Mike Bracco

Sorry but he shouldn't have deleted his FF account. He should have stayed the storm. I think what he said to Leo was out of line, but to receive the vitriol he has is unnecessary. I think he deserves criticism, but not cancer threats. - kenneth glenn

Yeah that's really screwed up. If those people want to get pissed off at something, come to a third world country and take a gander at all the "real" abuses people do. Talk about making you sick ... - Nick in Manila

scobe: roger that. I like leo a lot, but that seemed to be an overreaction by him. then the mobs wayyyy over reacted - ming yeow

ming: and go far further than the problem that incited them in the first place. And Mike rarely gets personal, as far as I have seen, even when his barbs are aimed at something I've done. - Robert Scoble

Mike acts like a dick. Then again, so do I. I used to have a hate-on for him myself until I realized that really, he's a lot like me... Ballsy and annoying on the outside, but a real human with real feelings on the inside. I'm not afraid to call him a jerk to his face, but that's his behaviour I'm commenting on, not him personally. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I don't get why people feel so compelled to fling poo at Michael. He says contentious things, has strong opinions, and sometimes screws up...that makes him human and reasonably interesting. I think that is a good thing. - Neal Jansons

Chris: we're all dicks once in a while. I think that's part of being human. Far as I know there's only one perfect human who has walked on the earth and I bet even he wasn't perfect if we actually could get to know him. - Robert Scoble

Neal: Everyone loves taking everyone else down a notch or two. Primate dominance games. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Mike it would be better to post the follow up video on youtube. It was an interesting conversation and would help put everything into context. - Benjamin Taylor

Neal: Chris nailed it. We love building people up and then dragging them down. I told Mike that whenever I've gotten a shit storm to form it's been when I've been at my most interesting. - Robert Scoble

Benjamin - yeah I wish I also captured the conversation a little while after between Arrington and Leo where they talked it out. - Mike Bracco

This is sad - Johni Fisher

Arrington works his ass off, I've watched him as he's gone after a story. I can't do what he does. - Robert Scoble

Leo has this massive army of supporters, and many more who probably found the clip and came to support him. These weren't neutral third parties giving their honest opinion on the incident, they were Leo supporters through and through. I can't blame him for deleting the account, because I was reading the comments, and they were tough. - Colin

I'm really surprised that Mike still, after all the crap he gets, feels hurt from these comments by people. But last night he and Leo were both discussing how these comments about "mike should die" are not from reasonable, of right mind people. I'm sad that he takes those comments to heart. And I'm sad that trolls thrive in this place (the internet) I love. - Lise

Has Leo said anything to his supporters about their attacks on Mike since yesterday, by the way? - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

As much as we all may like and respect Arrington, it just seems as if he was trying to create news at Leo's expense. - Stuart Tracte

Chris, Robert: I know, but Mike is center of poo-flinging more often than most, and he got freaking SPIT on and had his family threatened last year. It just amazes me, and honestly, each snafu just makes me more sympathetic with him personally (I still sometimes disagree with him, professionally, of course, but that is just the biz). - Neal Jansons from IM

Colin: yeah, and Leo should have spoken to his audience and told them to stay professional. But that will come back to Leo someday. These things always do, which is why my friend was correct when he told me never to push a mob. - Robert Scoble

I missed TWiT so I don't know if Leo brought it up or not during the show, but I hope he took an opportunity to tell others that its not their place to fight Mike on Leo's behalf. Especially after they made up. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

But Robert, working your ass off isn't an excuse for behaving badly to people or acting the way arirngton has in the past. Hard work doesn't mean you get to be a jerk - David Lloyd

Neal: yeah, some people become larger than life and it makes people feel that it's OK to do pretty outrageous things against them. - Robert Scoble

Chris: He didn't. I'm not sure he's even aware of the comments Mike got. - Vlad Bobleanta

Leo said at the end of his TWIT feed that he "had trouble sleeping last night." Perhaps because of this brou-ha-ha? - Steve Burgess

Vlad: Thanks. That's a shame, I think it'd be really good for both sides if Leo did come out and say this to everyone. Even if he just recorded a short video clip and tossed it up, standalone. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Whatever either of them say at this point, it has gone beyond them and their ability to "do" anything - Susan Reynolds

Robert, Leo could have said "please stay professional" a thousand times but come on, this is the internet. Do trolls, who are always ready for a fight, listen to that? - Lise

Susan: Perhaps, but it would still help allow cooler minds and attitudes to prevail and in a shorter time than if they remain silent. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Mark: I think Arrington would agree with you. - Robert Scoble

Chris: He brought the incident up, but didn't calm anyone down. Again, I'm not sure he's aware of what's been going on. - Vlad Bobleanta

Also, the Gillmor Gang section is gone: http://gillmorgang.techcrunch.com/ - Greg Byrne

i still post all my posts here. i can post the other TC ones if you guys want too. - MG Siegler

Chris, that's true, but there are still a vast army of followers who think they are in the right and just go off half cocked - and stay that way - Susan Reynolds

Lise: true too. - Vlad Bobleanta

Lise: probably not, but my friend's words ring true: to hold back mobs as much as possible. - Robert Scoble

This is 1. not a surprise & 2. mobs are not at the behest of the personalities they follow. They are mobs. Mobs glom onto some perceived raison d'etre and go. If Arrington, after all of his time pushing buttons and twisting tits, is surprised by this, well, he's a whole hell of a lot dumber than he ever gets credit for being. - Dave Martin

Leo and Steve had a big fight last night: bottom line is GG is off the twit network - David Lloyd

MG: that would be cool. Techcrunch was my #1 most "liked" feed here on friendfeed. - Robert Scoble

People saying stupid things in comments? This is nothing new. Sometimes you just don't want to deal with it anymore. - Dean Clark

perhaps someone could set up an acocunt that will link to TC articles as they are posted in real time - David Lloyd

Susan: "Madness is rare in individuals--but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." -- Nietzsche - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I hope he recreates it. - Johnny Worthington

Dave: I don't think he's surprised by it, just shocked at how bad it's gotten. - Robert Scoble

Perhaps someone could write a piece detailing the mob situation, defending Arrington, and encouraging him to come back, maybe this is it. - Colin

Dave Martin: I get why he's surprised. There's always a disconnect between someone like him and the so called community, and also there's always a mob waiting to be formed. - Vlad Bobleanta

Not all of those comments were hateful. he pissed me off more when he deleted mine. I pointed out what he said and then opined that I didn't think it was enough and he deleted this: http://ff.im/3FDfA - Jimminy

Big names, little names, it's still hard to see hateful things aimed your way. Intellectually most of us understand, but emotions sometimes get in the way even to the big fish - Susan Reynolds

wtf happened? i missed it and am sorry whatever came to this has come to this. - jeneane sessum

Chris: good quote! My history teacher in College simplified that to "the masses are asses." - Robert Scoble

Maybe he is just shocked that not only Leo's community attacked him but also his "loyal" techcrunch community gave him a bashing - David Lloyd

Robert, I see your point, but I don't need to be told to refrain from attacking someone. I saw what happened. I wish Leo hadn't gotten *so* angry but I respect that he feels passionately. He was defending his integrity. So that I respect. I respect Mike for handling it all so well and not throwing F bombs back. And I love Leo. But I wasn't going to curse Mike or wish death upon him. So those that did, there's no changing them. - Lise

Jeneane: Mike and Leo got into it on Gillmor Gang yesterday. There's a whole thread about that. - Robert Scoble

Not sure how taking TC off FF relates to the problems Arrington was having in comments on his blog. ? - Nick in Manila

TechCrunch Question: I noticed that my comments on FF for TechCrunch articles also appeared as part of TC's comments on their site. Is that part of FF API? - Mike Bracco

Nick: the most hostile comments were in FF comments - David Lloyd

Jeneane: http://friendfeed.com/twit-co... - Vlad Bobleanta

Mark: Aha. - Nick in Manila

oh jeez. thx robert. i'm sorry to hear that. sounds like the chorus got active. - thanks for the link Vlad. had no idea. - jeneane sessum

Mike: You can import FF comments onto Wordpress posts via a plugin - Nicholas James

Lise: good point, but I've learned that if leaders call on their followers to behave appropriately then they usually do. I don't want anyone who calls for someone else to get cancer to read me, by the way. I am here to have great conversations about tech. Keep it on the tech and we'll have a great time. - Robert Scoble

Lise, Robert, the hateful comments say more about the idiots who write them than about the two personalities about which the angry words swirl - Susan Reynolds

Nick: death threats etc - David Lloyd

Lise: There are those who were ready to tear Arrington to shreds, at least until the mutual apologies of him and Leo came out on TechCrunch. At least, I can't believe I'm the only one who felt like that. Some angry people can be assauged. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Mark: Not sure I agree. The Youtube comments are terrible. - Mike Bracco

it's difficult to be surprised by the size of this reaction.like it or not, you guys are celebrities. - Stuart Tracte

Mike: no, Techcrunch had a Wordpress Plugin that was doing that. That Plugin has been removed, too. - Robert Scoble

Colin: I think the general flip-out crazy needs to be addressed, but it needs to be by an A-lister so everyone sees it. The whole way these things are happening makes the whole industry look insane and unprofessional. - Neal Jansons from IM

Stuart: The size, yes. The venom of it, though? - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

shouldnt be too hard to make an unofficial ff account for techcrunch posts - David Lloyd

someone wanna go do it? - David Lloyd

Stuart: that's the thing. We're also people and Mike is sensitive like the rest of us (even if he has built a persona that shows him as above it all). - Robert Scoble

Mark: Surprised if someone hasn't already beaten us all to it. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Mark: I'd rather not do that. I'd rather someone at Techcrunch does that. - Robert Scoble

There are a few existing TC accounts from their feed. - Benjamin Taylor

Scoble's made the point that FF has structural features to control that kind of stuff. Guess it was overwhelmed. - Nick in Manila

Chris C, so you were one of the ones wishing death upon Mike until he apologized? - Lise

well im sure if Arrington took it down, it is probably TC policy not to have FF account, his other writers wont make one - David Lloyd

Fanboys are going to follow whatever lead they're directed. If Leo had said that Mike had terrible BO, there'd be thousands of Leo disciples telling Arrington to get himself some deodorant. It's unfortunate, but that's the way it is. - Jay Caruso

hows this http://friendfeed.com/techcru... - Jack

Leo is well-spoken, he makes things sound good, he's a well-known likeable guy, and he was the one on video, that's a lot of things going for him if you ignore everything else that's going on, and people do. Just mob mentality and drive-by commenting. - Colin

Behind every great character there is a real person. I just hope that the more rational people currently participating in the mob realize this and understand what they're doing before they do anything worse. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Nick: well, yes. I wish we could have a team feed from Techcrunch. - Robert Scoble

I still like Mike and don't think he should have deleted the TC account. I enjoy the TC posts but find that Mike and Erick tend to get to a point that makes me want to stop reading their stuff, and I won't for a few days. - Jimminy

Just create a public standard feed/group (owner controls posts, anyone can comnent), and import TC from twitter/RSS/whatever. - Ken Kennedy

Lise: Not wishing death, but I certainly would have given him shit and got up in his face if I had the chance. I don't fight (often) but I do relish giving hell to people. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Done: http://friendfeed.com/techcru... - Jack

Jay, that's not true. I am a huge Leo fangirl but I also think for myself. - Lise

The people who were commenting took it too far - Mike Appologised. Leo Appologised. That should have been it although Leo's fans just tried to continue to call mike for no reason. - Nicholas James

Jack, subscribed. - Robert Scoble

Lise, it wasn't a blanket statement. I've been a fan of Leo's since the old Tech TV days. Just saying that some will take it too far and it all it takes is the person to open that door a crack. - Jay Caruso

Thanks, Jacky boy x - David Lloyd

Thanks, Jack! - Neal Jansons from IM

Thanks Jack! - Nicholas James

Robert, is there anything else that needs doing? I think I got it right - Jack

Wait... is Jack affiliated with Techcrunch? Why not have MG do this? He offered. - Ken Sheppardson

Nicholas: At this point I'd probably be calling Arrington to tell him to not take it too personally, that mobs are really just sheep with pointy teeth. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

FF is a focus group in many ways. Sad commentary IMHO. - Eric Logan

Jack, Robert: MG can handle this. He writes for Techcrunch. How 'bout we not squat on their brand? - Ken Sheppardson

Chris C, exactly. You just said, you relish giving people hell. You're always ready for a fight. I, on the other hand, am not. And I looked at this situation and considered both sides, despite being a huge Leo fan and not knowing many details on Mike (other than he pisses people off) - Lise

Is there really much more discussion about this? What is done is done. It's already in the past & let's move on. No one knows how this will affect Leo in the future if at all. - Jason Hansen

Want to know what else happened? A single moderator in Leo's IRC chat room muted the entire channel, causing the mob to spill into FriendFeed. - Colin

When I first was diagnosed w/ cancer and the twitter community started the frozen pea fund to donate to cancer research, Mike and Robert were among the first to write about it. As I see it, they both keep a human touch to the community no matter how popular the following. I appreciate that and so maybe its easier for me to see past some of the things that upset the crowds. - Susan Reynolds

I'm not affiliated in any way with TC - Jack

are you okay now Susan ? xxx - David Lloyd

Lise: anyone who does interesting things in media is going to piss someone off. Even me, I try to take reasonable positions and do my homework, but I have lots of haters out there too. It's unavoidable. - Robert Scoble

Jason, I think there is. Considering Mike deleted his account and the GG site no longer exists on techcrunch. I feel bad for Mike and Steve. - Lise

OK, if he asks - Jack

Eric - true - ff as focus group - Susan Reynolds

Why do you feel bad for Mike & Steve? - Jason Hansen

Lise: Steve deleted the GG page, if I heard that correct. It will be interesting to see how the Gillmor Gang goes forward from here. - Robert Scoble

Robert, no I get that. But that's my point. I know Mike is capable of that. And I'm way more of a Leo fangirl. Yet I wasn't with my fist in the air yelling "fight!" - Lise

Mark - thanks for asking. Not OK but very supported by the best of the net - Susan Reynolds

Basically the only 2 people who should have been involved was Mike and Leo. They both appologised - the mob tried to get involved and call Mike for no reason - I mean after both of them appologising to each other that should have been it - people took it too far with some of the comments I saw yesterday. - Nicholas James

Because Steve realized his show isn't really his show. And Mike got hell when he didn't even give Leo that much shit to begin with. - Lise

You know, my main issue with what happened yesterday, is that it was an ego clash. And just that. Funny that in the make-up part Leo kept insisting that he'd like more content on GG and less drama, an hour or two after he himself caused a helluva lot of drama. I do love Leo and watch all of his shows, but yesterday he was overreacting. And I think he figured that out in the mean time.... more... - Vlad Bobleanta

ROBERT: oops caps, I do know Leo and Steve had a fight last night and its not gonna be on TWiT anymore x - David Lloyd

If the mob is acting "in Leo's name", then I think Leo should try and tell them that they're certainly not acting with his permission or blessings. That they should disband and stop attacking Mike. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Steve still seems like he's trying to throw his weight around and try to be in complete control of the show. He needs to remember its not just about him - its about the audience - something he said he didn't care about yesterday - Nicholas James

My impression is the guy went over tipping point for the kind of character he was putting out there, at some point people are going to say enough is enough. - Ian Wright

Nicholas: the show used to be private, Im not sure Steve cares that much about the audience - David Lloyd

Live by the sword... - Ian Wright

Vlad, it was the final straw for Leo. He had said before that Mike was becoming too trollish during the GG show. And when he felt like Mike was about to attack his integrity, well, he blew up. Unfortunately. - Lise

gillmor gang is going to be nothing more than a conference call :-( - Tobias Lewsadder

Nicholas: Steve cares about the audience more than he lets on. He knows that by making things interesting he's doing right by the audience. That doesn't mean, though, that you kowtow to the audience. - Robert Scoble

Tobias: heheh, in the real time world? THAT I would have to see! - Robert Scoble

Isn't that your opinion Robert? - Jason Hansen

I watched the whole thing unfold last night including the after show and it was clear that Mike Arrington spoke before he thought and didn't mean it to come out like people including Leo took it. I am glad that they both cooled down and realized it was a simple mis communication. Its too bad the crowd can't do the same. Mike Arrington may be a pain in the butt but pain in the butts are interesting. - Kim Landwehr

Jason, sorry, lost context. This is all my opinion. I can't speak for anyone else other than me. - Robert Scoble

Kim: bing! - Robert Scoble

"Arrington works his ass off, I've watched him as he's gone after a story. I can't do what he does." Doesn't make his insinuations right. I work hard and couldn't do what he does probably - but that doesn't mean he can act like a jerk - repeatedly according to some. - Mark Outten

I'm pretty sure the Techcrunch <-> Friendfeed comment sync was disabled a few days ago. Not sure it had anything to do with the dust-up yesterday. - Ken Sheppardson

Lise: I know why it happened. I understand that was building inside Leo over time. I get that. - Vlad Bobleanta

Robert, that really bugged me that Steve said he didn't care about the community. But I agree, he cares greatly about the show and the community. He wouldn't have been so hurt if he didn't. - Lise

i was blown away by the second episode of gg. it almost seemed like arrington was torn by who he had turned into, at least the negativity that resides within hm. - Tobias Lewsadder

It's probably just the mob he's upset with Lise. - Colin

I also agree with Kim. I enjoyed watching GG at 6:00 PM during the last hour of shift at work. I would still watch it as well as TWiT. - Jason Hansen

He was hurt by some of the comments, he also blamed Dave Winer for alot of problems - David Lloyd

Mark: who said he's a jerk? Sometimes we're all jerks. And, anyway, when he's being a jerk he usually is keeping it on the story. Not personal. He's taken lots of shots at me but has NEVER said that I should get cancer and die. That's unacceptable. - Robert Scoble

Vlad, okay and I agree with you that Mike should blow those comments off. I'm shocked he hasn't grown a thicken skin - Lise

I think that if anyone bothered to read the Techcrunch appology and watch/listen to the 2nd Gillmor Gang yesterday they'd know the full story. The mob listened to the 1st Gillmor Gang only and drew their conclusions - some of that mob didn't even listen to Gillmor Gang - they just jumped on the bandwagon like sheep especially as they saw like a 1 minute clip on Youtube summarising it. - Nicholas James

I don't know Arrington personally, all I can judge him from is his body of work with TechCrunch and it's top notch. Anyone who criticizes him in a vicious way needs to look in the mirror. A lot of those with the harsh words are probably typing it from their parents basement. I just hate when people rip other people with a pretext of being something else when it's really jealousy. - Mike Bracco

Lise: it's always easy to say people should have a thick skin until you're the one at the center of a mob getting kicked in the groin. ;-) - Robert Scoble

Mike: bing! - Robert Scoble

Steve Gillmor clearly stated that he doesn't care about the audience. And that's that for me, Robert. Lise: I can see Steve cares about the show, and especially his brand inside the show. About the audience, he said it better than I ever could. Please believe the man. - Vlad Bobleanta

I think the Steve-Leo conflict (which was briefly obvious on the show) got totally overshadowed and subsumed by the Leo-Mike issue. - Nick in Manila

Robert's comment exactly. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Robert, true. I know I couldn't handle it. - Lise

Robert: You like Microsoft's new search engine. ;) - Jason Hansen

Vlad: you aren't listening carefully. I heard what Steve said yesterday and totally understood what he was saying. You can't let the audience drive your product. Ask a Porsche owner what they want and they'll say "more trunk space, smoother ride, more leg room, etc." They just designed a Volvo. - Robert Scoble

Robert: 100% agreed. I do not want to be in Mike's position, ever. - Vlad Bobleanta

Vlad: all of us in media care DEEPLY about the audience. If you hung around any of these people you'd know that we read every comment and take them very seriously. But the day you start listening to the audience and kowtowing to them is the day when you lose your way. - Robert Scoble

Robert: How does the mob get its "justice" then? I have not seen the venomous postings you speak of, nor do I agree in any way that that is the way to go. So, how does this get resolved? I, like many, believe Leo was being "entrapped". How does Arrington get out of this with his reputation intact? He's done alot for all of us and definitely does not deserve the level of hatred you speak of, but something need to be done... - Stuart Tracte

Stuart: most of the nastiest stuff has been deleted. - Robert Scoble

Make a good product and the audience will find you. - Kim Landwehr

Side note: Do not try to converse on FF on an iphone.... had a whole paragraph written out.... and lost it... - Stuart Tracte

I think Arrington and Leo will come out of this fine, I'm already paying more attention to both of them. - Colin

Stuart: you should go and listen to the second show we did last night. Leo wasn't entraped. And he didn't have to react that way. When people question my ethics I answer them calmly. I get questioned on that all the time. - Robert Scoble

Every week someone asks me if I'm paid by friendfeed, for instance. - Robert Scoble

Robert: I am listening, and I get your point. I never got Steve's attitude, though. And I was just spinning what he said, I did get the underlying meaning. - Vlad Bobleanta

(I'm not). - Robert Scoble

Tonights FF homework: listen to the full GG show to become better informed http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - Jack

i was in the middle of typing a comment on tech crunch last night when mike shut down the comments, how sad. he mentioned having to have a police car parked in front of his house in the past for similar issues... that is wrong!!! - Tobias Lewsadder

SCOBLE: totally agree! true innovation can't come from what the "flock" is saying they want. True innovators are so because they create something that no-one knew they needed until it is created. - Mike Bracco

Honestly, I suspect that every person who got really pissed at @arrington over the years but had decided to ignore him went back and told him what they'd thought of him all along. He's ruined companies and products on the grandstand. I read his stuff like I watch fox news, for the truth far from the middle but for clues of what might be left out on the sunny side. - Shava Nerad

Vlad: Gillmor is an interesting person. I don't always get him either. - Robert Scoble

Robert, still. I am that community that Steve supposedly doesn't care about. And that's where I almost did pump my fist in the air. When Steve said he didn't care and Leo instantly said he *did* care. But... again, I feel bad for Steve, still. His issue was just loss of control over his baby (the show) - Lise

Colin: Professionally, sure! This isn't any kind of permanent damage to either of them. Personally, though, I know that it's got to hurt them both. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Chris, I think they're both tougher now. - Colin

Shava: He's made many hundreds of companies too. I don't know of a single one that was ruined by TechCrunch. Please back that statement up. - Robert Scoble

Colin: You'd be surprised. Often the people who seem to have the thickest skin on the outside are the most sensitive on the inside. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Does Leo know any of this, btw? I think he thinks this is all over with...considering he was joking about it all. I think he's embarrassed and trying to make light of it. But I don't think it's over, unfortunately. - Lise

Seriously everyone who did not listen to the 2nd show shouldn't even comment on it. Infact the problem should be over and done with it was a minor row which ended pretty quickly with both appologising to each other. That should be the end of it. Instead of people jumping on the bandwagon trying to call someone because he has a huge readership base and earns a nice amount of revenue from his blog - Nicholas James

still watching. - jeneane sessum

If they were ruined by TechCrunch then I'd have to call that company pretty lame. Remember PodTech? Mike pointed out a lack of leadership at the company. In hindsight Mike was right. - Robert Scoble

Chris, but that outer skin just got thicker lol, I dunno, I just think it has to be a big lesson to both of them, they'll remember it. - Colin

Lise: I don't know what Leo is seeing right now. I should call him and check in. - Robert Scoble

I don't know about Mike, but Leo was already making fun of the incident on TWIT, realized their was a slight overreaction on his part - Kim Landwehr

Colin: Yes, they'll remember it. But that outer skin is just their media personalities. You're ignoring the real people behind those names, and how they feel about it. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I don't even believe that Mike was about to question Leo's ethics. He was just upset that they didn't get a Pre. And wanted to make a point about how Palm selects reviewers. I never questioned Leo's integrity. Neither Mike's. I think they'd be really stupid to endanger their careers like that. Which settles it for me. - Vlad Bobleanta

Robert: Will you pass him the link to this discussion? - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I think yesterday was enough fanfare - I'm filing this in the "none of my business" stack - Bwana ☠ from IM

Wow...did not expect to learn this when I logged onto FriendFeed. - Ben Parr

Vlad: you weren't hearing Mike. Please go listen to the second show. He made it very clear why he was asking those questions. Mike asks me all the time about my ethics. It's his way of digging for stories. - Robert Scoble

Robert, you should. I hope they can work this out. It's definitely not smoothed over. Maybe between Mike and Leo but not all 3. - Lise

Bwana: But we need to know what every single person on FriendFeed thinks about the relationship between Leo, Mike, and Steve... did you miss the memo? - Ken Sheppardson

I'll say this again, but Leo's IRC chat was muted, and chatters spilled right onto FriendFeed. If you were reading the IRC chat at the time, it was 100% pro-Leo. Those people normally don't come on FriendFeed, but when they were muted, this was the first place they came to, because this is the 2nd largest chat Leo endorses. - Colin

Robert: That's his way of digging for stories... fine. However, is that something you would do to a respected friend? - Jason Hansen

Mmmyeah, Steve's issue was loss of control over the show. I get that. I've seen how awkward it was at times. But still. How old are these people again? - Vlad Bobleanta

Lise: that's true. Steve feels his show was stepped on needlessly. - Robert Scoble

Jason: All's fair in love and war... And in media. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Jason: in this business? Yes. I ask MYSELF all the time am I on the right side of the ethical line. And when someone is getting a goodie and I'm not, it sure does make me wonder WHY. - Robert Scoble

steve should host the show and he boot whomever he wants and not invite back guests he doesnt feel fit into gg. - Tobias Lewsadder

Tobias: I agree. Steve should be in charge of the off switch on his own show. - Robert Scoble

To run a show, you have to do what Leo does, you have to be able to control cameras and mics, and Steve really needs to get that kind of control, or Leo's operator needs to stay neutral, and out of it. - Colin

Tobias: Steve should take things offline for making the show, and then broadcast it afterwards, rather than doing it live. That might help reduce the bad attitudes it seems to bring out from its hosts and guests. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I do think Steve had a point, It is his show and Leo really didn't have the right to shut the show down, no matter how mad he was - Kim Landwehr

Robert: I would like to see the inner of the business for a week or two. It would be an interesting learning experience I'm sure. - Jason Hansen

Tobias: I think it was unprofessional for Leo to pull the off switch on someone else's show while on air. It makes me wonder how Leo would treat me if I were to host a show on his network. - Robert Scoble

out of interest. was leo, steve or arrington making money from GG? will this have business implications - Anthony Feint

Robert: It would depend if you pissed him off ;) - Nicholas James

Anthony: not yet, but whenever audiences get built around media properties there's always money involved eventually. - Robert Scoble

No Anthony, this was a Saturday, and people's free time. - Colin

Chris: Steve lives and breathes "live". - Nick in Manila

Nicholas: if I pissed someone off they should bite their lip and fire me after the show. That's professionalism. It also gives people a chance to explain themselves. When you're on air it's very difficult to discuss business in a professional way. - Robert Scoble

Robert: How much time has Leo spent on the air over the past 10 years or so? How many incidents like this have their been? Seems like you might literally be blowing it out of proportion, re "It makes me wonder how Leo would treat me" - Ken Sheppardson

Robert: I saw the show yesterday. Yeah, I know, my point was more that he was using the ethical question to start off his 'story' about Palm sending review units. Which is exactly what he said in part 2 of the show, when you were on too. And it's exactly what you kinda said. So let's agree to agree, even if my phrasing isn't phenomenal right now :) - Vlad Bobleanta

I like Mike, I really do, and I respect him, but he has to take some responsibility. Its not what he says, its how he says it, that rubs people the wrong way - Stephen Pickering

Robert: I gotta agree with Ken's last statement. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Ken: that's not the point. Leo has always been on someone else's network. Now he's trying to build a network of his own. That requires a different set of sensibilities. - Robert Scoble

The interesting thing for me was that about a month ago, on another TWiT show, Leo expressed some negative sentiment about Arrington and the way he sort of "stir things up" to try to get responses out of people. It was on net@nite I believe. Anyway, that is the first thing I thought of when this happened yesterday. - Mike Bracco

so I guess we are that petty? such a waste of our attention. Lets get back to reading / listening / sharing. Hopefully Mike will consider friendfeed again down the road and shake off all the negative publicity/bad feelings about inciting Leo. - Mark Essel

but was leo giving free bandwidth to GG? - Anthony Feint

Chris: I was one of Leo's "Laporteans" and have been a friend of Leo's before I even had a blog. I love the guy. - Robert Scoble

Anthony: yes, but again, if you are going to fire someone in media, or shut down someone else's show, you should do that off air. - Robert Scoble

Anthony: but maybe that's just me. - Robert Scoble

I thought the comments towards Mike yesterday were overwhelmingly positive after they both apologized. I gained a new respect for Mike yesterday. - Jesse Stay

Robert "that's not the point. Leo has always been on someone else's network. Now he's trying to build a network of his own. That requires a different set of sensibilities" That's why i made it a point to say Leo would be better off Not "Hosting" the GG but being a Out of Studio Guest - Erle Stride

Mike B, exactly, he was ready to be attacked by Mike. He said it himself. So he went overboard. - Lise

Scoble: Can't substantiate at the moment, so skip it as unsubstantiated, but I remember 2-3 times seeing what he said about something, and what others said, and thinking, he was just talking things down to be contrarian. It's like ValleyWag -- are you familiar with them? Thing is I rarely have read his stuff lately. I prefer constructive criticism over snark negativity, and that's the... more... - Shava Nerad

As an outsider viewing the beginning of the show, my impression was that Leo lashed out as if their is some pent up frustration/anger towards Arrington. - Kevin Whalen

Anthony: I think Leo agrees there, too. He said he was wrong to shut down the show. - Robert Scoble

I think Leo shouldn't have stopped the whole show, after all it is Steve's show. However I can understand why he did. It seems to me he was never quite happy with GG on Twit from the beginning. Which is what he kinda admitted in part2. If the show were to stay on Twit, I think they should just get someone in the cottage to switch between cameras and stuff, and Leo should be a guest. In Steve's show. - Vlad Bobleanta

Shava: I've been on Valleywag more than 70 times. - Robert Scoble

I always had the impression, especially after yesterday's second part, that Leo had never heard the show before letting it on his network. "Oh right you chat with Scoble, Calacanis, Arrington, Doc Searls et al, sounds good I'll host it"; unaware of the drama that occurs. - Jack

Vlad: I agree, and I think so does Leo and Steve. - Robert Scoble

Kevin: Leo's talked about what he dislikes in Mike's persona before, but this is the first time things really came to a head. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

squarespace sounds interesting (still listening) - does put #squarespace in your tweet still enter you in the contest? - jeneane sessum

Robert: yeah I agree to...im just wondering where the shows going to go. ITs going to lose a big audience. I only watched because it was on twit and techcrunch - Anthony Feint

Probably not a good idea to be a guest and be in control of a show at the same time. - Kim Landwehr

Leo DOES have the right to pull the show it's HIS network That's why Steve got so Pissy Lastnight - Erle Stride

Really, he apologized, so shouldn't this be over if it's over between the two antagonists? But then this is the Internet. And yes, I figured you know Valleywag, but this is a general audience as well. A lot of folks don't overlap - Shava Nerad

Robert, don't you think this is a bit of a soap opera? - Jon Lebkowsky

Kevin: That exactly the way it appeared to this outsider. - Nick in Manila

Vlad, I think we all agree that Leo shouldn't have shut the show down. But I think removing Leo from his own network in his own studio is silly. Do you really think he's going to do this again? - Lise

Jon: of course! - Robert Scoble

Mike sounded so reasonable last night. He told Leo and Steve not to make any rash decisions about the show, I'm surprised he didn't apply the same wisdom to himself and yanked the TC account so fast - Stephen Pickering

Jon: of course this is all a soap opera. So is real life. - Robert Scoble

Shava: The thing is, even if this weren't the internet, all our talking heads would still be talking about this. It's like with any kind of media personality, new old doesn't matter. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

If Arrington had gotten a free Pre to preview this never would havve happened - Chris Patterson

Sigh. Okay. "Desperate Technorati." - Jon Lebkowsky

jeneane: No, Calacanis just asked that the listeners of TWiT do that to support the sponsors of the show. - Mike Bracco

Jeneane The contest starts on Monday. Details at squarespace.com/iphone - Vlad Bobleanta

Stephen: lots of us can see the sins in other people but can't see our own sins quite so clearly. Myself included. :-) - Robert Scoble

Chris, I see. - Kevin Whalen

I'm not sure I agree that life has to be a soap opeat, but I have to agree that it often is. - Jon Lebkowsky

Arrington was treated terribly - no doubt. is this new for him? no. has he treated others terribly? yes. will deleting the account keep people from treating him badly? no. will it stop him from treating others poorly? i doubt it. we all act like jerks sometimes. some of us have a bigger audience when it happens. some of us get a lot more crap when we do it. the folks who get extra crap... more... - MikeAmundsen

Your right, I've got to learn to practice that on myself - Stephen Pickering

These guys could use some zazen. - Jon Lebkowsky

lol, Jon! - Shava Nerad

I guess I missed the terrible part on FriendFeed - TechCrunch or Digg or the TWiT chatroom, maybe, but it seemed to me FriendFeed was rooting for Mike by the end of that show. - Jesse Stay

Lise: Lol. Dunno, we'll see. - Vlad Bobleanta

i think this can be debated for days... perhaps finding a resolution should the direction here. - Tobias Lewsadder

Sad. The Techcrunch items were some of my favorite part of Friendfeed. And I seem to remember an issue Mike wrote about some weeks back that impressed me with non-tech issues he feels strongly about. I hope he comes back with the Techcrunch account because whatever else, a few of us think he's part of here. - George Hall (Australia)

Jesse: I think the stuff that got TechCrunch to delete friendfeed came last night. - Robert Scoble

Less chatter, more photon splatter? What's the big deal, everbody's human and loses their cool at times. Some social media/stars/hosts are working very very long days and it's way to easy to fly off the handle when someone questions your rep. - Mark Essel

Which is sad because that was the only way I read TechCrunch before. Hopefully MG continues to share his posts. - Jesse Stay

MikeAmundsen: It only takes one dog to bite out your throat. Mike's lucky in this regard that it's a bunch of people screaming at him once or twice and then disappearing into the void, so much as this issue is concerned. When you have one person in a campaign against you for a long time, though, the damage is far worse than what this mob is doing to Mike. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Tobias: yeah, not sure there is a resolution. I hope everyone who listens to me and interacts on my behalf remembers that there's people involved here. - Robert Scoble

Mike Admundsen - you nailed it - Liza

I expect the friendfeed, if it was anything like this, was too fast and nasty to moderate, and when things die down he'll be back. I can see me doing that if things got fast and nasty - Shava Nerad

WWDC needs to hurry up and get here... many you guys are bored :) - Bwana ☠ from IM

If anyone wants a divergence from this serious talk, check out this CALACANIS AUDIBLE LOVE DANCE that I just recorded from today's TWiT - http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Mike Bracco

Jesse: http://www.friendfeed.com/techcru... - someone remade it ;) - Nicholas James

Mike kept saying that a bunch of FriendFeeders wanted to see him dead. I never saw those kind of comments. Were those kind of awful things said? - Stephen Pickering

I suspect they'll get over it. I've certainly had some emotional moments that led me to delete accounts and worse. - Jon Lebkowsky

Anyway, in a week we'll be back to talking about Apple's new iPhone. Bwana is right. Heheh. - Robert Scoble

Bwana, tis true lol, I'm excited to see what Santa will bring. - Colin

And got ove rit. - Jon Lebkowsky

Robert By the sounds of it - Erle Stride

One thing to remember, on the internet we are all still people. Attack egos, attack actions but leave the people alone - Chris Patterson

Bwana: If only Palm had given more people Pre's the other day, we wouldn't be talking about this. ;-) - Ken Sheppardson

I'm with Leo - I don't think there will be a new iPhone - Jesse Stay

Yes, I will get the new Iphone!!!!!!! Yeah, I've been living with a Razor for two years, but I'm not excited about AT&T - Stephen Pickering

Stephen: yeah, but they weren't people who I recognized. Anyway, time to move on. If I ever participate in a Mob again, just kick me in the knees, OK? - Robert Scoble

Chris Patterson: AMEN. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

h Leo and Steve feel the GG and TWiT don't belong together I just wonder who will be the first to pull the trigger - Erle Stride

well, you folks solve the problems of the world, I have to go feed folks dinner...:) Seeya later Jon! Nice to run across you. - Shava Nerad

OK, I will! heheheh - Stephen Pickering

Tking acct down does nothing to address issue - scoble, we'll kick you in knees if you mob - settles it! - Liza

Shava: I gotta go play with Milan who just woke up. Seeya! - Robert Scoble

http://friendfeed.com/tad... - Internet's Tad

Yay - saved by Milan, Scoble! - Liza

Tad: :) - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

And yet, a Friendfeed without Arrington is lessened. He was as much a part of Friendfeed as Scoble. Heck, it just doesn't seem like Friendfeed UNLESS you've got both Arrington and Scoble talking. - George Hall (Australia)

Deleting the FF account was an emotional reaction. I mean, think about it. Will that stop people over here talking about Mike or TC stuff? Of course not. So what's the point then? Just that Mike will never ever load FF again and therefore won't see some bad stuff being said about him? Sounds strange to me. I hope he changes his mind, because being less engaged with the audience is never good in my book. Trolls can be blocked. Bad stuff can be ignored. But to stifle what can be good conversations...why? - Vlad Bobleanta

robert could it be as simple as... arrington was a jerk, laporte overreacted in attempts to defend his integrity. both were at fault in one way or another. it is the job of the host of the show to end this all. steve needs to step up and ask everyone to drop it. - Tobias Lewsadder

Now you can't post comments to his last article on techcrunch, how cool is that? - GeorgeAris

Vlad: when people get beat up they don't always make smart decisions. - Robert Scoble

Hopefully Mike Arrington will come back to FF after a short time off, He will be missed - Kim Landwehr

Did someone make the techcrunch account again to save it for him? heh - Lise

Perhaps it's time we made an effort to make Mike feel welcome back here again. - George Hall (Australia)

Would there be agreement that this was out of character for Leo and is there anyone following this that hasn't lost it in a professional situation? I sure he meant what he said, although I'm also sure he regrets it happened and feels like an ass. - Jim Gablick

Tobias: Actually, if Steve can get the two of them in one room and shake hands and tell everyone together to lay off on the attacks, perhaps they might. It's a longshot but it could go a far way to making things better between them all, too. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Talking? I don't see Arrington as a talker...I see (saw) him as a sabre rattler and drama king. Unless there's controversy, he's not quiet. Finally, someone told him to shut the hell up for the tool behavior that's his M.O. Scob, if he couldn't stand the heat.... - C. Jason Mancebo

http://www.dramabutton.com/ - Karim

Karim: LOL> - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

+1 Karim - Bwana ☠ from IM

Robert: Agreed. I understand. - Vlad Bobleanta

That drama button was hilarious Karim - Benjamin Taylor

Jason: I don't think Mike minded Leo going off on him so much. It's the aftermath of having the mobs kick him in the nuts that got to him, me thinks. - Robert Scoble

C. Jason: He's that too, but it is a talker. He does engage. And when he's not putting up that jerkface public persona, I'm pretty sure he's a nice, cool guy you can have drinks with. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

i cant believe that we are actually discussing this. shouldnt we feel disgusted that someone felt attacked enough to cancel his account. jerk or not he is human - Tobias Lewsadder

agreed Scoble - Kim Landwehr

never been a fan of mob mentality myself... - George Hall (Australia)

Scob, I think it's cumulative. He's gotten away with ALOT of stirring the pot for a while and people just have had it. Be a contributor, or go away....but I certainly don't agree with the "death and cancer wishes"...that's completely unnecessary. - C. Jason Mancebo

Chris: Mike is always interesting. I was at a tech industry brunch this morning with him and he's always got an interesting conversation going on. - Robert Scoble

How does the saying go... "Live by the swarm, die by the swarm"? - Ken Sheppardson

Jason: then we're on the same side. Arrington gets to me once in a while too. He knows how to push my buttons as well and get me all wound up. But that also is how he gets stories before anyone else does. - Robert Scoble

Heck, Arrington's style created BUZZZ. So why treat him badly? - George Hall (Australia)

It is almost like working for Microsoft. You get attacked daily. - Chris Patterson

C. Jason: I'm a big jerk myself, on the outside, but that doesn't mean I'm not a sensitive and caring person on the inside. He's more than just his persona, he's an actual person too. Sometimes someone does have to come out and say "stop being such a dick" to me, and no doubt to him. But attacking en mass the way this mob [redacted] is doing, that's just not right. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Chris Patterson: LOL. Good one. - Vlad Bobleanta

George: Arrington has done something remarkable. We always talk about him. He doesn't always like what we're saying, but I told him this morning that he has created a media company that is doing interesting things and that he should worry about the day when we're not all mobbing on him for some reason or another. - Robert Scoble

I don't understand Arrington's defense. He's really nice, soft and fluffy on the inside even though he attacks you in public and calls out your integrity? He may have his own issues to deal with, but he's in the public eye and he should expect the wrath of the Internet to reign down when he pulls an asshat move like this one. How many times does he get to slip out of the antics he... more... - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

Maybe he read the Terms and Conditions here at FriendFeed and freaked out? - Kenneth Stein

George: that said, it's not always fun and games being the center of all that kind of attention. - Robert Scoble

+1 on Arrington getting stories before anyone else...when Friendfeed was down a few weeks ago, he was the only one who could provide info on why. Fastest news of that particular day. - George Hall (Australia)

I'm still not convinced we can strictly pin this on Leo fans...that video got dugg bigtime and when a mob forms, people come from everywhere - Bwana ☠ from IM

Robert: Don't I know it. - George Hall (Australia)

Eric, does his actions, though, really warrant people to wish death upon him? (which is, apparently what he's upset about) - Lise

Chris Charabaruk: Let's just please not call them Leo fans anymore. A mob is a mob. I'm a Leo fan and was not part of any mob, ever. And I don't want that association to stick in my head. - Vlad Bobleanta

Chris, I'm sure he is, but too often, people need to hide behind their persona for whatever reason. His is the sabre rattler/pot stirrer...he went WAY too far insulting a pretty good guy's ethics. Not good, but certainly agree with the over zealous backlash..not good as well. I guess "you reap what you sew" is certainly valid - C. Jason Mancebo

Vlad: I'm also a Leo fan and I totally see your point. I'll edit that bit out... - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Vlad, yes. I take offense to that whole Leo fans thing. I'm a huge Leo fan. I don't act that way. - Lise

RobertS: this seems so reminiscent of the January fracas in Europe. Why is it that Arrington engenders such anger in people (and i'm not talking about Leo here)? this isn't some cosmic joke on good ol' boy MIke Arrington. there's a lot of history here. there's a lot of anger that Arrington has exhibited over a long period of time. don't get me wrong, i feel badly for the man. but not... more... - MikeAmundsen

let him go. - Stalyn☂

Eric: integrity is something we should always ask of each other. I don't mind if you ask me those kinds of questions. I got a review unit of the Palm Pre too. You SHOULD be asking whether that biases my review in some way. Mike was mostly digging for a story yesterday, not attacking Leo. That's something you gotta know Arrington about. He was digging and got a reaction he wasn't expecting. - Robert Scoble

The internet is full of high octane evil. It waits for an opportunity such as this to wish death on a person. - Bwana ☠ from IM

Robert, I heard that yesterday, and Leo just popped off. Mike really didn't deserve this one, which you can hear. What upsets me now is that I can see he does personalize a lot of this stuff, which was really done by Leo's audience, and Leo's chat room has an audience I wouldn't wish on my worse enemy. I loved it when we started the FF chat so I wouldn't have to listen to Leo's immature... more... - Francine Hardaway

it seems like people who have been angered by mike at one time or another are using this as an opportunity to lay into him. - Tobias Lewsadder

C Jason: Exactly , it is one thing to attack a persons opinion, but attacking someone's ethics is really harsh - Chris Patterson

No one deserves it - Bwana ☠ from IM

Francine: well said. - Robert Scoble

We had a good discussion yesterday at a tweetup in the city about the whole thing. I think MIke ABSOLUTELY deserved this one. It's been a long time coming. The whole backlash, not deserved, but not surprised. - C. Jason Mancebo

WHAT!!!? - Jason Pollock

C. Jason: if Mike was hiding behind his persona instead of showing the real self, he'd be blasting back at his detractors, not removing their comments and killing the old TC account here. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

NO ONE deserves to have personal attacks that deal with their life or family. - Chris Patterson

I don't think these are even people who were angered by Mike, it was just mob rule. And there's no such thing as an online conversation that's "a long time coming" and bad enough to make someone want to get away from being online. That shouldn't be the way we act. - Francine Hardaway

So Arrington and the other guy worked it out between themselves...so why should a mob stretch things any further? - George Hall (Australia)

Lise, you are absolutely right, that isn't right; no threats are necessary. I didn't see that here however. Not from the regular FF crowd that have regular activity, so I really didn't see that personally. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

Chris: Mike wasn't attacking someone else's ethics. Listen carefully to both shows yesterday. He was asking questions. Leo took it too personally, me thinks (he thinks so too, in hind sight). If your ethics are really above reproach you can answer calmly and professionally. - Robert Scoble

Chris, I think he was hiding behind it in public and now is effected beyond the persona. - C. Jason Mancebo

Francine: very well said. - Vlad Bobleanta

Francine: agreed #2. Well said. - Robert Scoble

Geroge Hall correct. - Francine Hardaway

George: Mob mentality. 100 sheep on their own are perfectly fine, but if they freak out and charge in the same direction... - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Francine: mobs can get out of control here in the real time web. Not sure how we can fix that. - Robert Scoble

Scoble, I gotta respectfully disagree with you. He was absolutely trying to make something out of nothing. Totally NOT ETHICAL! - C. Jason Mancebo

Well, you don't want to be in their way. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

These things push my buttons because I see so much potential for good in the online community and I want the bad stuff to go away. I know that's unrealistic - Francine Hardaway

Eric, I didn't notice those either but I wasn't the one attacked and wasn't looking for those. Despite that, Mike saw it/felt it. That's the point. - Lise

Never liked mobs, never liked being on receiving end of them, never liked following any. - George Hall (Australia)

Making a story is not creating a story. Not cool! - C. Jason Mancebo

Jason: I can understand how you see it that way. DId you watch the second Gilmor Gang last night? Mike explained why he was asking those questions and Leo answered much more calmly. - Robert Scoble

I vote we try to help Mike feel wanted here again. - George Hall (Australia)

maybe leo should join us and ask people to lay off - Tobias Lewsadder

Robert, I haven't heard the second show, but in the first one Leo clearly said that it was a review unit. - Chris Patterson

I'm going to email mike. - Francine Hardaway

Jason: personally the free stuff and review units and access DO bias our reporting and that's something that we SHOULD talk about calmly and professionally. Our audiences should hear our answers. I don't think Mike's question was one that shouldn't be asked. Of EVERYONE. - Robert Scoble

Robert, did you get a hold of Leo about this yet? - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Scoble, I think it was prettied up for public consumption by both of them. Sure, Leo could have been better about it. Absolutely. But I just am not with you on that one. Agree to disagree on this. - C. Jason Mancebo

You should see the second show. You haven't seen that, you can't really get the gist of it. imho. - Vlad Bobleanta

This is not about Arrington but about much larger issues and tensions that are brewing - amt of comments is undeniable proof of that. - Liza

Robert Scoble, I understand your point. "If you only knew him..." I'm sure if I had a beer with the guy I'd grow to love him and all, but I haven't and all I have to go on is what I saw, and I can't side with M.A., not after his history with shooting first with his posts and comments. He really needs to put himself in the mind of the public that find a problem with his actions without... more... - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

Chris: and Mike, in the second show, explained why he was asking that. Techcrunch didn't get a review unit and his theory is that Palm is only giving review units to people who are saying nice things about Palm. - Robert Scoble

On the early access units, how in the hell is anyone (Scoble, McCracken, Ubergizmo) supposed to review anything early without early access units. It's not a gift, it's a loaner. - C. Jason Mancebo

Chris: I'm calling Leo now. - Robert Scoble

I think Leo was right in getting mad - Johnathan Schultz

Ask Leo to come in here - Lise

Come on guys. If you haven't watched the second show, you're blowing in the wind. - Nick in Manila

This talk of super-scary Friendfeed "mobs" is all a little hyperbolic. - Christopher A Carr

Leo should not have said such inflammatory things.. Even if he was pissed off he could have handled himself in a professional manner on the air - Jason Pollock

mike totally clarified himself and leo apologized for taking it the wrong way. - Tobias Lewsadder

A promoter is not a journalist. Much of what I see on TC, and here and elsewhere illustrates that YOU are buzzing things, creating hype which in part drives it forward. The coverage ought to be balanced though, and it's going to likely lead to unfortunate and unnecessary consequences. This might shed a bit of light on it. http://bit.ly/LfVJk - Kenneth Stein

Jason: I hate the review unit thing. Walt Mossberg got his weeks ago. - Robert Scoble

I guess nobody takes Sunday evenings with their families these days, eh? - Ken Sheppardson

Johnathan: Leo's anger was justified, yeah, but how he expressed it was a bit much. But how the way the mob took it as a call to action, that's bad. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I think it should be stressed that Leo can't be held responsible for anything anyone else says. On the irc chat, here wherever. - Vlad Bobleanta

It is really too bad the conversation went bad. Mike really did have some good questions to ask about how business ethics and free products review or not. He just started the conversation really badly - Kim Landwehr

leo's language on the air incited the hate comments that techcrunch got - Jason Pollock

HI Liza, well, I see it yes and no....this specific thing is a good example of "you don't get to be a shit stirrer and get away with it forever". - C. Jason Mancebo

Christopher: A mob is a mob, online or off. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Lise, getting threats like that is something no one should go through, I agree. People should act with civility. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

Interesting post of Mike Arrington(The New York Times Sunday edition): The Morality And Effectiveness Of Process Journalism :http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... - Johni Fisher

On the AIR? Lol there's no FCC regulation yet....I'll refrain from scribing the 7 deadlies here - Kenneth Stein

Looked to me like he was being a jerk and got called on it "what are you going to do about it?" is not the kind of retort that should pass between two adults. That being said, it also looks like Leo has decided to move on so should the rest of us. - J. Abdul-Qahhar

Vlad: That's true, but he can still encourage them to act more responsibly. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

J Abdul, I think the "what are you going to do about it" was still when Mike thought it was all kind of a joke - Lise

Scoble, it's not like they but a hundy in the package and say "review away" :-) - C. Jason Mancebo

No one's going to move on until there's something else to talk about ;) Come on WWDC! - Bwana ☠ from IM

Offline mobs hurt more when they hit you with an actual physical object, as opposed to pissy comments variety of assault from dangerous Friendfeed "mobs." - Christopher A Carr

Ken S, I just fired up the grill. Great day on the coast in HMB today. BBQ and wine happens soon :-) - C. Jason Mancebo

we all benefit from the work that mike does. tech crunch has been a daily read for me for years... although you may disagree with some of his methods, is wishing him death really appropriate - Tobias Lewsadder

C. Jason: They don't have to. Just having the thing before everyone else creates an incentive for acting non-ethically. After all, they give you a review unit (even one you need to return) because you gave them a good review might encourage you to keep giving good reviews for the opportunity to play with the latest gadgets first. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Chris: Yes, and I think he should. Let's just keep in mind, those are just random people who he probably never met. And in the case of the irc chat, are mostly anonymous. Which is part of the problem imo. - Vlad Bobleanta

Tobias, i think we all agree that the backlash has gone to far...yes, - C. Jason Mancebo

Actually, research idicates that being teased and taunted oftentimes is more painful than being hit. - Kenneth Stein

Who were these random people anyway? Friendfeed regulars, or blow-ins? - George Hall (Australia)

I agree, and i think this onslaught has gone on far enough - Johnathan Schultz

Time to man up Arrington. The storm's here and.... Oohh look, another iPhone rumor - Bwana ☠ from IM

George, I'm sure some were FF regulars. I don't think because you have a FF account it makes you of right mind. heh Unfortunately. - Lise

Just a computer engineer, patent attorney, developing some tech - Kenneth Stein

@George Hall: Gillmor Gang regulars. - 321

"Onslaught?" Please. - Christopher A Carr

People need to get a tiny bit of perspective instead of social media tunnel vision - Nathan Cooprider

One thing I would really like to see come from this is that folks like Arrington with the "Not quite so stringent, shoot first retract later" ethics understand that people give a shit about that and it's not cool. - C. Jason Mancebo

George Hall: mostly non-regulars, or that was my impression at least. But not exclusively. Arrington is easy to hate, that's the truth. And some people just need to hate something. Or someone. That is all. - Vlad Bobleanta

Its just feels like this has gone a little to far - Johnathan Schultz

Tobias, but I'm not sure that we wouldn't benefit MORE from TC if it was a bit less "NY POST" ish - C. Jason Mancebo

The whole evening Gilmore Gang put everything into context. It was really interesting, lots of questions and talking points raised regarding technology reporting, journalistic integrity and consumed content. Even a discussion about the GG show itself. It's unfortunate that a few people ran with the 1 minute clip and formed an opinion without looking at the whole day in context. - Benjamin Taylor

I want to make a quick statement, because this is how it seems to be framed here for some. Just because we are choosing to criticize him doesn't mean we are part of a mob or are threatening him. The debate should not be framed as Arrington versus bloodsucking Friendfeed mob. There is no defense for threats, online or off. No one is debating that that I have seen. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

@Johnathan Schultz: It has, but what are us bored geeks with too much time on their hands to do? - 321

jason: agreed - Tobias Lewsadder

Scoble, pretty great day on the coast for an Arrington discussion, no :-) - C. Jason Mancebo

I do have to say that this whole incident is the reason I've came over to FF permanently. - kenneth glenn

Benjamin: agreed. Eric: death threats is a mob in my book. Noone is referring to criticism, but rather to threats and mindless stuff. - Vlad Bobleanta

If someone has actually threatened his safety, that's one thing, but I must say I found it almost funny that he was so upset over terrifying Friendfeed "mobs." - Christopher A Carr

anyone know arrington for an extended period of time? has he always been like this? - Tobias Lewsadder

Vlad, right, death threats are wrong, but that doesn't make me or anyone here criticizing this incident as part of the mob. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

shiftoptionk - that is the core of the issue :) - Bwana ☠ from IM

I think that many people just took the opportunity to join in on the "I hate you Arrington" bandwagon when that started yesterday. Today they're all probably busy in Google Reader (even though RSS is apparently dead) reading the latest TechCrunch posts. - 321

I seem to remember a techcrunch article Mike did weeks back about a different issue...one where he took a principled stand. I wonder if non-regular mob making threats relates more to that than the Gilmour gang thing. - George Hall (Australia)

We're reaching again. Terrifying mobs? Where did that come from? He was getting abused, wasn't seeing any real poing to sharing stuff here, so he deleted the account. It makes his life easier. We're sorta going off the deep end... once again. - Ken Sheppardson

@Christopher No one wants to read death threats about themselves. Real or otherwise. - Glenn Trtanj

bwana: elaborate please - Tobias Lewsadder

shiftoptionk - it was a buildup. This is how Arrington is. Leo got tired of it. - Bwana ☠ from IM

Some days you can take it, some days you blow up - Bwana ☠ from IM

afterwards, they made up..but you can believe Arrington will do it again - Bwana ☠ from IM

Bwana, absolutely agree...lots of folks obviously tire of it. - C. Jason Mancebo

i know he has been like this for a while but im askking if this was the type of guy he was before getting into this business or has the business changed him - Tobias Lewsadder

Ken: This is yet another overreaction, yes. This weekend is really something. However some people do take bad things very personally, and maybe Mike is one of them. Dunno, I haven't met him. - Vlad Bobleanta

Personally, I think TechCrunch on FriendFeed is better as a room anyway. It enforces the separation between a person and their business. That said, I do hope that Mike comes back, and that everyone behaves civilly when he's around. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Excuse me, but if Arrington didn't say anything that stirred the pot, it'd be boring in here - George Hall (Australia)

optionshiftk - that I don't know - Bwana ☠ from IM

George: Damn right. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

And I would ask, on a different note, if someone called out you're ethics in the work that puts food on your table in front of everyone at your place of work, plus or minus 50,000 people, how would you react? With anger I bet. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

I have a shiny drama button here for those that are bored - Bwana ☠ from IM

We need something like http://instantrimshot.com that automatically generates FF drama. - Ken Sheppardson

@George Hall (Australia): Indeed, gives us something to talk about until tomorrow. People just seem to be over analysing all of this. - 321

Chris, I don't agree with your logic on early access = incentive for ethical problems. Lot's of folks get early stuff. The only issue that I see is lots of FALSE POSITIVE reviews by lot's of up and comers...but not the Leo Laportes of the world. - C. Jason Mancebo

And for those that want real drama, please refer to the french fry vs onion rings vs tater tots debate: http://ff.im/3H1oA - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

If anyone thought Friendfeed was JUST Robert Scoble, they missed half the point. It was equal amounts Scoble AND Arrington. The thrust and parry of the differing viewpoints sometimes. - George Hall (Australia)

cstechcast - Yeah, some people think it's excusable because it's "interesting" and it's entertaining. I don't, but that doesn't change the situation though. I never liked the way Arrington did his thing, but I doubt he cares and I doubt it'll affect his career. - Bwana ☠ from IM

Eric: no. And Leo wouldn't have done it angrily if it wasn't for the feeling that he was being Mike's target. When you get questioned, you keep your cool and explain. Leo said exactly this tonight. - Vlad Bobleanta

C. Jason: A false positive review IS an ethical violation, BY VIRTUE OF BEING FALSE. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

George, Arrington was really never on Friendfeed. He was not active here. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

His account was. - George Hall (Australia)

posted some thoughts on this in the longer post here http://friendfeed.com/parisle... - MG Siegler

and he was a part of Robert' - George Hall (Australia)

s best posts. - George Hall (Australia)

Vlad, that is the logical thing to do, but that would not be most people's gut reaction. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

MG: Well played. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

You can't be putting feelings before facts, I like facts. - Colin

Arrington wasn't sitting around on FF all day, but he was here. There were several comments from him over the past few days. - Ken Sheppardson

Colin: Sure you can put feelings before facts. If you couldn't, politicians would be out of work. ;) - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

I got along just fine on FriendFeed without Arrington - but that's not really a big thing - Bwana ☠ from IM

We all have to step away at times... I wouldn't delete my account, but I'm not Mike Arrington - Bwana ☠ from IM

Scoble, have you seen MA's comments on TC? He's admitting to saying "We were promised one but it wasn’t delivered" but the comments are targeted at LL, not at Palm. That's completely shit stirring. Just not necessary. - C. Jason Mancebo

that's why I'm not trying to understand his POV ...or Leo's... it's their business - Bwana ☠ from IM

@Lise not really something you say in jest... Those are or (at least were) what the old folks used to call "fighting words" and the only real reason to say them to someone is a) the two people in question are physically separated or b) the one person doesn't think the other is actually going to do any thing. - J. Abdul-Qahhar

Bwana, I agree, we talk about this and I guess it's proof stirring the pot gets you your celebrity. Next stop, reality show. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

bingo - Bwana ☠ from IM

it's all one big drama button until WWDC ;) - Bwana ☠ from IM

Well that's my hokmah moment for the day, I'll be over here watching the game - Bwana ☠ from IM

I agree with @Bwana but this happens everytime Mike thinks he's going to read something he doesn't like..just as right before he deleted TC's friendfeed account. We may not know him as a person but his actions have always preceeded him. - John Blanton from twhirl

Just talked with Leo. He hadn't realized this was all still cooking, but admits that people have said some really horrid things. - Robert Scoble

J Abdul, I completely disagree. Of course you can say that in jest. You can even, as Mike assumed, throw F bombs at someone... in jest. - Lise

Now that he does know, I hope that he'll come out and say something about it, see if he can put the whole matter to rest finally. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

When I called Leo he answered "are you calling me on your Pre?" Ahhh, the fun we have behind the scenes. ;-) (I wasn't, my Pre is charging). - Robert Scoble

i think leo is focused on wwdc - Tobias Lewsadder

Big tech boys and their toys...and the surrounding jealousy :) - Bwana ☠ from IM

Robert, you still haven't done anything with that Pre, my god! Aren't you curious to play with it? heh - Lise

On twit earlier he was laughing and thought it had all blown over - Jack

Lise: I took some pictures on it today and will do a writeup later. - Robert Scoble

Jack: yeah. I told him these were aftershocks like what happens after a big earthquake. - Robert Scoble

i saw that it syncs with itunes... does it sync calendar and address book thru itunes or thru isync? - Tobias Lewsadder

Anyway, I gotta go, otherwise Maryam is gonna go off on me in public and that won't be fun either. ;-) - Robert Scoble

Robert - just don't walk off of her show! - jeneane sessum

Cya Robert! - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Robert, see ya. Can't wait to hear about the Pre! - Lise

Calacanis made a joke on Twit today when Leo began talking about the Pre, my senses stepped up and became more sensitive for a second there. - Colin

later scoble - Tobias Lewsadder

I was hoping he would set the record straight. It's hard to counter a 90 second youtube clip and the hour follow up with Arrington yesterday isn't widely availible. - Jack

I suspect readers/viewers would have hated the vast majority of reporters from Benjamin Franklin on if they saw the man behind the news then, the way we often can now. Journalism isn't a gentile profession. If you don't want arrogance, then go get your news from a convent. Otherwise, expect and accept that these people are who they are and, for the most part, you get higher quality, more hard hitting news because of it. So appreciate that Arrington is an arrogant ass and leave him alone. - Dawn

Robert here's the thing .. we're all huge fans of Leo and how can we not have something to say about this for good or for ill? - John Blanton from twhirl

Robert's original point was that Arrington copped a tremendous amount of mob attack including threats to Arrington. Sounds interesting for what was essentially a small and resolved issue between him and Leo. I have to wonder if the mob were actually Facebook hategroups pretending to be friendfeeders, since Mike did write an article on Techcrunch about the fact Facebook allows hate groups a say. - George Hall (Australia)

Gee,that quietened everyone. Is the silence the sound of people thinking? - George Hall (Australia)

So... how long until we get a Laporte/Christian Bale mashup? - Jack

I was just thinking about the earthquake analogy...is it a force of nature, if it were not for this thread, would we be talking about this? - Benjamin Taylor

I think most folks walked away after they realized that Robert actually did go AFK to spend time with his family. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Jack: LOL. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

If your a public figure such as an editor of a magazine, you need thicker skin this. This seems to be a reoccuring thing. People say bad things about him and he goes away. If he didn't want the negative comments or feedback maybe he should stop being such an asshole. He attracts this even when not saying crap about people. He gets what he deserves. Leo gets crap as well and i have not see him leave. He just moves on and tries to prove himself in his work. With respect on top of it all. - CW™

In real terms, it's Arrington's job to create buzz and pot-stir. So is that a reason for him to get such a mob reaction and threats? No. - George Hall (Australia)

And if there's one thing that won my respect for him it was that stand he took weeks ago on that Facebook issue. - George Hall (Australia)

While Arrington might have expected a backlash from Facebook users, here was where he least expected it. - George Hall (Australia)

Speaking of mob in a gentler way...does everyone HAVE to go quiet when Robert leaves the conversation? - George Hall (Australia)

angrykeyboarder: why was FF never meant to be used like Robert uses it? He gets some interesting conversation going. - George Hall (Australia)

Most people are probably here looking for Scoble's attention, and want him to respond to them personally. - Jack

Robert also feels strongly about what happened to Mike, as for whatever else, they're friends. And he's allowed to defend his friend. - George Hall (Australia)

angrykeyboarder: Discussion is EXACTLY how FriendFeed is supposed to be used. I don't see a blog post here. I see Robert starting a conversation, and contributing his two cents here and there. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

George, haha I went quiet when Robert left. I just assumed the whole thing would go quiet. Plus, you know Robert can keep a conversation going. - Lise

+1 Chris. - George Hall (Australia)

I wonder if Robert hopes we'll keep a thread going without him once in a while. - George Hall (Australia)

George: LOL, probably. - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

George: yes. :-) - Robert Scoble

LOL - Lise

If anyone hasn't heard part 2 of the Gillmor Gang it's here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - Jack

Angrykeyboarder: this IS my blog on the topic. :-) - Robert Scoble

+1 Robert. - George Hall (Australia)

People who know Mike: Do you think he'll cool down and come back to FriendFeed? - Bruce Lewis

What a wknd ..sooo strong feelings - Johni Fisher

I hope Mike DOES come back. I miss his feeds already. - George Hall (Australia)

I stopped reading TechCrunch some time last year, but started following it on FriendFeed after Mike's month in Hawaii. My impression is that depth/quality has gone up. Not that I did a scientific study or anything. - Bruce Lewis

Woah, I thought I was going to have to ask the question, but it seems the impression I got is coming out in the end. I felt certain that Leo had learned from the past to recognize the Arrington pattern, and that he saw some familiar threads and immediately kicked the loom out of the weaver's hands. In my reading of past things that don't even involve Leo, Arrington's been a subject of... more... - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

Intellectual or professional disagreement doesn't have to mean personal disagreement. While I'd disagree on some of Mike's points, I have nothing against the man personally. And there's still a fair amount of stuff he's written I DO agree with. The Facebook hate group article for one. That shows Mike has principles. - George Hall (Australia)

Thanks for that audio link, Jack... and Robert, I haven't blogged much lately either, but I did in this case... without hearing part2 first! - Richard ¿digame? Walker

People disappoint. I am no fan of Mike Arrington's, but I wish him no ill either. To have even one person wish him cancer or otherwise is just awful. With that said, I no longer buy the "he's a sensitive guy" routine. He's either a tough guy or he's a victim, and the victim seems to emerge when he's wrong. He has the power. He has the attention. He wields it. By his own admission, his... more... - Karoli

I wish him a little bit of ill will. Just minor ill will. Like maybe the apples he selects to be slightly less sweet than he was hoping for, or his timing chain to hop one tooth and make his car ride just a bit rough, or his shoe lace to break when he's tying them. - Matthew DeVries

lol @Matthew - Louis Simoneau

Fortunately, wishing cancer on someone is not going to make it happen. I could stand right next to Arrington, shut my eyes really tight and mentally chant "get cancer" for hours, and the only result would be indesputable proof of my utter stupidity. I'd have to laugh at the goofball who expressed such a sentiment. I would expend actual thought processes on the ones who wished for bodily harm, because those folks might bump into Arrington at a floor show or before or after a session at a conference. - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

found this link at the same time I was listening to this: http://bit.ly/2nhNLw via @arrington and Leo afterword. Didn't see the link, apologies if it's already been posted. - motownmutt

I'm not sure why people hate Mike so personally, it's ok to disagree with him but Mike and TechCrunch seams to have a lot of hate aimed at them for no apparent reason. - DarknessFalls

motownmutt: thats a direct link to the second part of the show. It's from the "bootleg" feed (read:only feed) which includes the first part of the show, as well as last weeks show, and older shows: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - Jack

Actually, it's already resolved between Leo and Mike anyway. And that's really where it should have stayed anyway. Resolved between those concerned. Doesn't need mob commentary afterwards, doesn't need threats to Mike, doesn't need the bullsh**. - George Hall (Australia)

I've been hiding all of these entries about Mike and Leo. I decided to read yours Robert because I know you. Here are some of my thoughts. First, I don't know either Mike or Leo and have never been influenced by either one of them. Second, I love listening to Leo's shows but cannot stand TechCrunch and the attitudes on that site. Third, Mike was the first (and only) person I... more... - LPH™ and his dog P™

@DarknessFalls, I think it was said that some people hold Arrington responsible for the failures of their ventures. He gives his opinion, & people listen (I think). If someone's project didn't make sense to Arrrington, and he said as much, it could hurt. Could the people in this flap be a different group? I hope so. @LPH: Interesting take you have there. You're saying the very post that I thought allowed Arrington and Leo to patch things up actually caused his problem with those who weren't involved? - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

LPH: Actually, Mike contributed in other ways. With the things he'd say to Robert, he'd get some real discussion moving anyway. And I liked his feed. Some of the best things I "liked" were Arrington's feed items. Mike didn't contribute? You mustn't have been paying attention. I'm sure Robert can tell you how Mike contributed in quieter, less noticeable ways to the discussions and other things. - George Hall (Australia)

I don't think channeling through Scoble is actually contributing...maybe that's just me. - Bwana ☠

BoringMage: Some people holding it against Arrington for pointing out major flaws in their products meant their products were flawed. People like Arrington voicing concerns can help them improve or come out with better. Sometimes a harsh critic can be your best friend. If what he says helps you come out with better. In which case, I think Mike was still in the right to voice concerns. - George Hall (Australia)

Palm, at the moment, really needs to have the Pre being a hit. But there's some design flaws in the hardware they're going to need to correct fast. That's a valid point. Otherwise I can see them being sued for having edges on the phone so sharp people can injure themselves. - George Hall (Australia)

I would like to know, in 100% honesty, how many people heard part 2 before commenting, including the apology? I admit - I did not hear it until a few minutes ago. Anyone want to chime in? - Liza

Bwana: sometimes, the greatest contributor is the one who sets things up for someone to kick a goal. - George Hall (Australia)

And, when Scoble's back in this discussion, I'm sure he'll tell people how much Arrington DID contribute in a quiet way. - George Hall (Australia)

@GeorgeH: I think what you said is exactly what the person who said Arrington was blamed for others' lack of success was trying to convey. Since I haven't done anything worthy of Arrington's notice, I wouldn't be trying to lay any blame at his feet, nor would I criticize him for pointing out problems, at least not if he let the organization know and gave the organizers a chance to address those concerns. @Liza: I listened to both and read the TC post yesterday. - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

Not sure what the big deal is on the TC FF account really is. Seemed like nothing but the TC RSS feed being piped into FF for likes and comments. - Rolf Schewe

Two ways to look at how a tech blog criticizing your product affects you. On a non-personal way, they show you you have a flaw. Whether privately telling you or publicly telling you, they're making you aware of it. If you take it personally, you don't improve your product, you just lash out at the messenger. - George Hall (Australia)

People from all types of disciplines follow the Tech Industry. Tech Industry Reviewers become brands that often influence our decisions as trending consumers to become early adopters of new products and services. The most popular brands will always receive benefits from the companies such as freebies, pre-release models, and exclusive (or first opportunity) interviews. The public... more... - thestaticfrost

Thanks for answering my question @boringmage - I was not sure what to think but wanted to see others' rationale, so I followed the stream. I had seen so much noise about it but not the audio part 2. This reshapes the reasoning. - Liza

George: he sure participated more here than Kara Swisher or Walt Mossberg. At some level, though, friendfeed is an aggregator and people deserve participation credit just for putting their feed in here. - Robert Scoble

At the moment I don't get paid for doing a tech review on my own blog. I simply look at the fact it does help if I've used or played with the thing I review. For the most part, I'll point out its good features. But where it has areas to improve, I'll also point those out, too. But someone feels they're going to complain because I point out one or two areas need something a tad better???? - George Hall (Australia)

Thanks for validating how much Mike did contribute, Robert. - George Hall (Australia)

The other part of this whole thing that bothers me is how Steve has been characterized as this guy who doesn't care about his listeners. If he didn't care about his listeners, he'd produce a show just like every other show out there. Instead he chooses to focus on what he views as important for his listeners to hear. He's been right far more often than he's been wrong, by the way. - Karoli

Geez, wonder if mainstream media ever gets this much discussion these days as much as this one show did. - George Hall (Australia)

If comments in here were ratings, the Gilmore Gang would be a number one show. - George Hall (Australia)

Perhaps it's time to get Gilmore Gang on a mainstream media channel... - George Hall (Australia)

George: Mainstream Media talks this way about themselves so they can justify their existence. - Owen Greaves

Why can't we have a rating system? I think we need a web rating system that encompasses comments too.... - Sid Burgess

Liza, I heard most of the post drama drama today on live.twit.tv on a repeat. Gilmore certainly was upset as well. Seemed to take the whole thing pretty personally as well. Not sure how that has turned out. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

Sid: I would love an Internet-wide identity system. But that is really hard to do and get everyone to participate in. - Robert Scoble

Wait. Why is this interesting? - l0ckergn0me

Well, that crack that whip Scoble! :D Actually, I think it would have some self-momentum... people want ratings, advertisers want value... hmmm? - Sid Burgess

He deleted the account because he can't control the conversation. - Jim Posner

Man Google Wave would be so handy right now in a thread like this! - Sid Burgess

Oh no; then you'd see my spelling mistakes in realtime - Jack

;) @jack - Sid Burgess

@l0ckergn0me: I'm hoping to learn something so I can be half as big as you one day and not make the same mistakes that others make so publicly for me. So if I have something wrong, by all means correct me! [edit: I know you like helping people; help me! ;) ] - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

As an pretty unbiased 3rd party, I am wondering why so few responded to listening to part 2 on audio. I know I am not 'relevant' to the crew, but it is a fair question. - AND re: why is it interesting - EXACTLY, it is not interesting except that so many are interested, so as a curious person, I want to understand it. - Liza

Gee, imagine doing any reviews or critiques of any product if you felt constrained for pointing out it had a flaw or if you saw products to review given ONLY to those writing JUST good things. - George Hall (Australia)

Liza: the problem is the youtube video is 90 seconds long and the part 2 is over 1 hour - Jack

people dont have the patience to sit through that. Compare 112 thousand views, to 2 thousand clicks (so far) on the bit.ly link: http://bit.ly/info/2nhNLw - Jack

Jack - fair enough, but this is a 4 HOUR STREAM -and for some really strong opinions, if I were an "influencer", I sure would not say something w/o doing my research - Liza

That's exactly the problem here. Both you and I wouldn't give our opinions without the full picture. But the so called "influencers" just mouth off without doing the proper research, like the "problem" with blogging where unsubstantiated claims and heresay is published. - Jack

Is that like what M.A. does frequently? - C. Jason Mancebo

Actually, I think Arrington does do his research. - George Hall (Australia)

Michael does fact-check or tells people it is unconfirmed in the post, generally. - Neal Jansons from IM

That wasn't directed at Mike at all, he's an excellent blogger - Jack

+1 Jack. Mike does excellent blogs - George Hall (Australia)

George, I have to disagree. He's much more of a shoot from the hip and retract later if I get called on it type of guy. Tthe truth or the facts are good, but only if it's interesting and gets him some buzz. - C. Jason Mancebo

Perhaps it's more like being accused of rape then vindicated, people wil only remember the more sensational story. - Jack

Not directed at Michael or anyone in particular. I asked a simple question, who listened to part 2 audio and few answered. Not directed at anyone. - Liza

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, it was interesting to hear Leo realize what the Gillmor Gang is really about in this second part: I always had the impression, especially after yesterday's second part, that Leo had never heard the show before letting it on his network. "Oh right you chat with Scoble, Calacanis, Arrington, Doc Searls et al, sounds good I'll host it"; unaware of the drama that occurs. Thoughts? - Jack

Liza, I think it might be a little late to expect a flood of comments. This is natural around here. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

Who says geeks and nerds are dull? - George Hall (Australia)

Those who are not geeks/nerds :) - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

@Jack: At first I couldn't figure out where you got that impression, but now I wonder if you're talking about the part where Leo was (if I recall correctly) saying to Steve that he got the impression that what was happening in the show wasn't what Steve wanted happening in the show, and when he was asking him what he wanted to do about it (with someone saying it doesn't have to be discussed right there in public). Is that what you're referring to? - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

If I had already been physically assaulted (spit on), had my family threatened, and then had a mob of people come after me online - deleting an account on a social network probably would be a quick decision. - Matthew McCowan

I mean that Leo was expressing his concern over the high amounts of drama on the show, which he disliked and thinks can be advoided, to which Steve and Robert explained was inevitable and part of the show. - Jack

I need to go listen more, methinks. Just not tonight. Gotta be at work in 8 hours. I can seriously understand not expecting drama, though. - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

I predict GG moves over to Mahalo. - Jim Posner

Oh, wait, I forgot that screaming, mean vlogger guy is on that show; of COURSE there will be drama! - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

Jim: that actually seems like a good fit for the show. i personally think steve should find a way to host it so he can have full control. - Tobias Lewsadder

Could also be an interesting get for B43. - Jim Posner

Reminds me how silky things can get over objects/tech. In Australia you can get fist fights over Ford and Holden (GM) - George Hall (Australia) from BuddyFeed

The show has been very different since it came to Twit. Much more tamed down. This week was almost a return to form, except that Leo ended the show. One of my favourite pre twit shows was when all the other hosts were laying into Scoble for wasting a year of his life on Friendfeed. He was right in the end of course, but the confict that sparks heated debates is why I started listening to the show. - Jack

Guess it's never boring, then. - George Hall (Australia)

It's a shame he felt he needed to. It's a bad decision which is an unfortunate one. - James Stratford

I'm glad he is gone. But maybe he just makes a little fuss and opens up a new account in several weeks. Would be too good to be true. Leo has hit the right point. It's so true. Techcrunch is a piece of crap like Arrington. Only bashing other people and their ideas, A troll with a lot of "followers", that's all, and Techcrunch is a troll site to just serve the Troll in us. If Techcrunch... more... - Ryo / Fuck Facebook

Robert I got to agree w/you on Techcruch. Did u read about: TechCrunch's Notes | The Morality And Effectiveness Of Process Journalism http://ff.im/3HS0e - polou/indigo_bow

Ryo: A few months down the track you'll probably be playing with a crunchpad. And you'll be thinking it a nice piece of tech...but are you going to throw it away when you realize Arrington's associated with it? There are trolls and there are trolls. I don't think Arrington was a troll. Pot-stirrer yes. Troll no. - George Hall (Australia)

Ryo: I totally disagree with you. Techcrunch has helped many many companies launch and provides a valuable service in getting lots of people to pay attention to the tech industry. Arrington is far far from a troll. Is he a jerk sometimes? Yes. But just being hard to live with does NOT make one a troll and neither does bringing up a good argument once in a while. But to try to claim that that's all Techcrunch does is simply false and I won't let it stand in the comment thread that I started. - Robert Scoble

Makes me wonder if Ryo knows who defaced Arrington's wikipedia page... - George Hall (Australia)

the ip addresses are there in the history George - Chris Heath

Hope Wikipedia rectifies it. - George Hall (Australia)

Arrington really opened up a lot in that conversation with Leo. I think his explanations there really explained a lot on why he has to wear a thick skin and act the way others perceive at times. The way he manned up and apologized to Leo I think was very impressive. I will forever see him in different eyes now - I really respect Arrington since yesterday. - Jesse Stay

And Robert, have you consoled Tina yet? she seemed pretty down in here recent tweet: http://friendfeed.com/tinagil... - Chris Heath

Jesse, me too - Chris Heath

There's a few of us who have a lot of respect for Arrington and his principles. - George Hall (Australia)

George, a few million you mean, right? - Chris Heath

Robert: If Mike Arrington feels THAT strong about 'the mob' - why didn't he delete his Twitter feed too? Could it be the hundreds of thousands of followers he has been 'gifted' because of his 'special relationship' with the Twitter guys? - Jim Connolly

That too, Chris. You probably have a better idea than me of exact numbers. - George Hall (Australia)

George, definitely I'm never going to use a Crunchpad. I don't buy products were assholes like him are involved, sorry. Leo hits the spot. And I guess there are another million you hates Arrington even more than me, I don't even care about a Wikipage of him. It should be marked for deletion, that's all. - Ryo / Fuck Facebook

It's sad too that all this fuss over a mere misunderstanding in a show gets so out of hand, because it affects the families, too. Sad because it's sorted out between Mike and Leo, but a whole bunch of people outside of it take things too far. Seriously, nobody had any right to make threats to Mike. - George Hall (Australia)

I just hope everyone can forgive and can move on with good stories and news. - Darren Lowery

Ryo: That's you. Me, I'm itching to own a crunchpad. - George Hall (Australia)

The Tech News Blog (when do we get to know your real name?) I'm sure he looked at the results he was getting, and I'm 100% sure he was seeing night and day results better on Twitter than FriendFeed. I'm sure he weighed his losses, and FriendFeed wasn't worth the negative brand image when compared to the traffic he was getting. Mike's a business man - I highly doubt it was anything personal. - Jesse Stay

Robert, I respect your opinion. Nonetheless, he destroyed many newcomers, too. Remember when he was spit in the face in a conference with entrepreneurs. It seems that this was one of them. Further he insulted whole Europe and bashes Google continuously. If Arrington is no Troll, there is no Troll anyway. The fact that he is "well-known" doesn't make something other out of him. - Ryo / Fuck Facebook

I really cannot understand all this vehemence against Arrington. Neither can Robert, either, nor a fair few Friendfeed regulars. And Ryo, I really do not understand where your vehemence towards him comes from. - George Hall (Australia)

Jesse: My name only changed here a few days ago, it's Jim Connolly - full contact details here http://jimsmarketingblog.com/contact... FriendFeed has not given Arrington a negative brand image - he did. - Jim Connolly

George, I read some of his articles. That's why. - Ryo / Fuck Facebook

Ryo, to understand him I think you really have to put yourself in his shoes. He's had a whole lot of people be jerks to him. I'm sure that would get to you. - Jesse Stay

Jesse: So, if he's so worried about what the mob are saying about his brand, why isn't he worried about his brand on Twitter? - Jim Connolly

Guess you didn't read the right articles, Ryo. - George Hall (Australia)

Jesse, you get what you give. If he would not act like a complete asshole, maybe he would not be hated so much. - Ryo / Fuck Facebook

Jim, I'm sure he couldn't afford to lose Twitter - that's my guess. FriendFeed I doubt was doing much for him, at least in his eyes. - Jesse Stay

Ryo, would I be an asshole for having something against hate groups? And if I did, would you still be saying it's my fault for *insert whichever reason*? - George Hall (Australia)

Jesse: I have no problem with him leaving FriendFeed, I just call bullshit on him suggesting it was the mob that drove him out. If it was the mob, he would have left Twitter, where they are REALLY attacking the guy. For the record, as a Tech News blogger myself, I have a lot of respect for what he has achieved. - Jim Connolly

Many people on the Interwebs are idiots--just look at nearly any YouTube comment! I'm not sure I buy that Arrington is that sensitive about how people have reacted--he's an Internet professional and he more than anyone should understand these outrageous, hate-filled comments are just a bunch of blowhard a-holes. That being said, Arrington had an opportunity to stop Leo and clear the... more... - Paul Salzman

Paul: I know Mike and talked with him at length this morning, both on phone and face to face. He's actually pretty sensitive, but puts on a tough face. It's an interesting part of his personality to see. - Robert Scoble

Ryo: do you buy Apple products? Jobs is a bigger jerk than I've seen Arrington ever be. Ryo: name one newcomer Arrington destroyed. Just one. I'd love to hear his/her story. - Robert Scoble

The Tech News Blog: good point about Twitter. I think Arrington likes that he has half a million followers there while me and Leo have been kicking his ass here on friendfeed (I was kicking his ass on Twitter too, before Twitter added him to the recommended follower list, which zoomed him above me and Leo). - Robert Scoble

TechCrunch leaving Friendfeed is sad, because even when we disagree with each other, it is nice to have a discussion going. - Mike Chelen

Robert: I know about you and Leo kicking is butt on Twitter before the recommended list started. (I have been chatting with you on Twitter for well over a year now!) - Jim Connolly

Robert: Re Twitter followers, seen this from earlier: http://www.thetechnewsblog.com/2009... - Jim Connolly

Robert, No I don't buy Apple products lately. I did in the past. It's not easy to determine how many or who exactly was affected by his bitching, which leads to investors pulling out, or banks don't give money. Actually this guy in Europe was one, but I don't know his name. I think he won't tell us, because he fear legal problems. But you know, if you have such an influence, you have power. If you act like Arrington with this power, it's just irresponsible. - Ryo / Fuck Facebook

On Twitter Mike's personal account http://twitter.com/arrington has a mere 5 thousand followers, it is the TC account with 680 thousand, whilst on FF he had his personal twitter as well as TC feeding in. See the google cache here: http://209.85.229.132/search... - Jack

The Tech News Blog: engagement levels on Twitter are interesting, agreed. I've seen the bot behavior too. Twitter's team seems unconcerned. Ryo: it's bullshit to say you were destroyed by TechCrunch. If anything getting Arrington to say negative things about you focuses the world's attention on you and people (especially his competitors) rush to check out whether or not he's correct. If he wasn't right, that guy would have gained even more followers. - Robert Scoble

Jack: the TC account used to be Mike's personal Twitter account before that account got added to the recommended follower list. Now he's used that just to stream TC links. He used to have conversations with lots of us on Twitter in the old days using that account. - Robert Scoble

It's ironic, though, that getting half a million people to follow you means you can't even get 10,000 people to follow your other account. The engagement isn't there. Getting engagement is much more difficult than most people understand. - Robert Scoble

Ryo, have you ever considered that the example you've just quoted probably didn't have a great product to begin with, or may have had stuff that really needed more work? If the product's good, no blogger with influence would really affect things. But if he points out a potential product needs major work or is complete crap, go get the product right and stop blaming messengers like Arrington. - George Hall (Australia)

George: exactly right. I totally bashed Amazon's first Kindle. it still sold very well because it did have real value (it just was designed poorly). The Amazon team was never as nice to me after that, but I know people who bought it after watching my review and deciding I was wrong about the device, so in the end, I'm pretty sure I helped them out more than I hurt them. A great product withstands all criticism. - Robert Scoble

Exactly, Robert. - George Hall (Australia)

Sorry, just listening to TWiT now :) Leo makes fun of his outbreak... Can be another "Damn you..." replacement... Screw you :) - Ryo / Fuck Facebook

I'm going to have to take issue with you there Robert. Respected reviewers CAN affect the success of a product. That's why we must demand that they review ethically and thoughtfully. - invariant - farewell FF

Ryo, sounds like you didn't hear the aftermath gillmor gang session on saturday http://ia311238.us.archive.org/3... - Chris Heath

Don't forget about the first part: http://www.archive.org/downloa... Mike spoke very kindly about Rajeev Motwani before the shouting began. - Jack

Chris, why do you keep saying this? It doesn't matter. He said what he said, and it was serious. What do you want to suggest with this? That Leo didn't meant it? He meant it! And he was damned right. - Ryo / Fuck Facebook

Friendfeed is better than Twitter, yet he wants to stay with Twitter, COZ its driving traffic to his blog and nothing else - Michael_techie

invariant: we can have some impact, yes, but if only one person is picking on something and is picking on something wrongly it can often have the opposite effect. A good product WILL stand up to Mike Arrington or anyone else for that matter. - Robert Scoble

well what he said after in the second session was serious too - and he claims the pre stuff was in jest and misunderstood - Chris Heath

Chris: he didn't quite say "in jest" but that he was trying to point out that Palm sends review units to those who have given Palm a good set of PR over the last few months. He might actually have a point there but that point was lost both because Arrington started pushing Leo's buttons and because Leo responded to that with an outburst that I haven't seen Leo do ever (and I've been following Leo since the mid 1990s). - Robert Scoble

right robert... but the 'what are you gonna do about it?' he claims was in jest - Chris Heath

Chris: yeah. That's just Mike being Mike. He does the same thing with me to try to push my buttons. Sometimes he succeeds with me too. ;-) - Robert Scoble

and robert... one question about the PR stuff... isn't it fully in Palm's rights and best interests to give out review units as they see fit? isn't that the point of PR? to get the review units out to those you think will give the best reviews? - Chris Heath

Robert, I don't know about that. Something from a company like Amazon, sure. They have the muscle to keep it going. But something from a startup running on a shoestring? A bad review from the right person could kill it. Look at what Engadget/Gizmodo (I can't remember which) did to the Folio - a product that was a netbook a year or so before the Eee PC. - invariant - farewell FF

Chris: yes. And that's why the practice is a little dirty. - Robert Scoble

but isn't that to be expected as core part of what PR is? - Chris Heath

invariant: any company that has all of its hopes hinged on one review is a company that's setup to fail. When I bring out a product I'll assume I'm going to get bad reviews. In fact, that's what I'm expecting with building43. If someone bashes it it won't stop me. I'll learn from it and move on and make it better. - Robert Scoble

Yeah, but the Folio wasn't quite the EEEPC...it was just an oversized Palm Pilot. Not even with an adequate OS for the size of the thing. - George Hall (Australia)

kind of like the old saying don't hate the player, hate the game? - Chris Heath

Chris: I have come to hate a lot of what PR does. The good ones are very helpful and fair to all comers. - Robert Scoble

But the bad ones... - Robert Scoble

right robert, and if what you're selling is truly good then the product/service doesn't need PR then right? - Chris Heath

George: regarding the Folio: exactly. Bad products can't overcome bad reviews. - Robert Scoble

I still think if a review kills anything, the product wasn't right to begin with. And I know that from my cartooning experience over twenty years ago. Critics are harshest when something's clearly crap. You just can't afford to be precious about a creation that's crap. You take the criticism the proper way and go do a better product. - George Hall (Australia)

Ryo seems to be hating the player and the messenger. Wonder if we should ask why. - George Hall (Australia)

Chris: if something really is great PR should only need to facilitate the press seeing it, finding that out, and holding it. I loved the Palm Pre as soon as I saw it on screen and nothing has changed my mind about that since. No PR person needed to give me one. Although the fact that they did made it easier to form an even deeper opinion that it's great. - Robert Scoble

Yikes! - Fred Davis

George: remember, I've been at the harsh end of Arrington's stick. You should go read what he said about PodTech. What he said stung and hurt but it was right and the company wasn't going in a good direction. Arrington just helped everyone's attention focus on that. Could we have pulled it out without that attention? Maybe, but I doubt it in hind site. - Robert Scoble

Palm still need to do something about the sharp edges, though - George Hall (Australia)

night everyone... cy'all later - Chris Heath

Are you saying it's impossible for a great product to fail due to negative publicity? Color me incredulous. - invariant - farewell FF

George: I'm playing with a Pre right now and I don't think the edges are overly sharp. If they did something about them it would pronounce the gaps where the phone slides together. - Robert Scoble

invariant: name a great product that failed due to negative publicity and let's talk. - Robert Scoble

Sometimes even if an idea is ours, it might need work...or it might be crap. Sometimes it's good someone points that out to us. I don't mind a good critic. They're great for getting your idea more focused and improved. - George Hall (Australia)

Robert: was watching a review that showed the edges when opened are sharp enough to cut cheese. - George Hall (Australia)

George: must be really soft cheese. Geesh. - Robert Scoble

Lol - George Hall (Australia)

I mean, can't we all just get along? But then again, I do remember learning as a journalist that controversy sells... even if it does come at a price... - Fred Davis

Exactly, Fred. Heck, a bit of negative publicity actually sells more things... - George Hall (Australia)

George: even there, though, if I read that review that the Palm Pre had sharp edges, all it would make me do is go and hold one and see if they bugged me. If they did, I'd get an iPhone or a Blackberry. If not, well, sold! If that's the worst thing they can say about the Palm Pre, it's actually doing pretty damn well! On the other hand, now I'm going down to the kitchen to see if mine will cut cheese. Heheh. - Robert Scoble

LOL. Palm Pre as cheese knife...now there's a hitherto-unknown use for it. - George Hall (Australia)

Heck,most of us here WANT to see the Palm Pre do well...and Palm themselves. But we'd all like to hope they do listen when some of us do point out where it needs a fine-tune. - George Hall (Australia)

George, well that's my opinion. You have to live with it. What is your problem? Are you an Arrignton Fan-Kiddie? Do you want to start a business soon and need to crawl up his ass for getting a good review? Maybe we should ask why you trying so hard to defend him, and trying to discredit me for having an opinion? - Ryo / Fuck Facebook

Palm Brie? - Mel Buckpitt

Hmmm....Ryo...you can put NO to most of your questions. I just dislike when someone makes a personal attack on a guy for doing his job. Or when he's blamed for some person's misperception of how much influence he has over whether a product sells or not. - George Hall (Australia)

Ryo: interesting that you use the same tactics that Arrington used with Leo. That's sorta weird. - Robert Scoble

I still maintain that the Folio was one of those products. It was a netbook before we even knew what to call them, and it was killed before it was even released by a web site that couldn't imagine the utility of a small, low cost portable. It may have had flaws, but so did the first Eee PC. Who knows what it could have become? - invariant - farewell FF

Yeah, Robert, but we at least knew where Arrington was coming from. - George Hall (Australia)

invariant: the eeepc had a linux/unix operating system with a fair amount of useability. The Folio was, to all intents and purposes, just a larger Palm. Huge difference. And at the time it was brought out, Palm OS was a bit limited. - George Hall (Australia)

invariant: well, maybe they shouldn't have shown it to Engadget first. There's lots of others who would have been able to push it along. But some products are simply before their times. Folio didn't excite me and I saw it. I agree with George. Failed OS. Heck, even Palm has given up on that OS. - Robert Scoble

Robert, George did use that on me, when he replied this: "Ryo seems to be hating the player and the messenger. Wonder if we should ask why." - I'm playing back. And my "buttons" are getting pushed very easily. Please, Robert read ALL the comments before making a conclusion - Ryo / Fuck Facebook

That's not true George. It was based on a linux os just like the Eee. - invariant - farewell FF

Ryo, your comments on Arrington have been accusing him of being a troll. To me, that's treating Arrington a little too personal. - George Hall (Australia)

Ryo: I read all comments and seems to me you're doing the same thing as Arrington. - Robert Scoble

I agree that spiteful comments are not the best way, but at the same time, Mike Arrington really shouldn't have jumped on such a bandwagon. At any rate, I hope that things douse soon!! - Guru Panguji

Actually, Ryo, your comments about Arrington sound very hateful. - George Hall (Australia)

Robert, I'm not. I'm just reacting. George did. But anyways, George, they are. He better not crosses my way in real life ever. - Ryo / Fuck Facebook

Hmmm...Ryo...pick a number and join the queue. - George Hall (Australia)

I can imagine, I'm not the only one :) - Ryo / Fuck Facebook

Ryo, I've been threatened by experts on occasion. I note you don't seem to have any Facebook. Interesting ommision from your list of web/social media concerns. - George Hall (Australia)

I hope you did understand that right. I meant Arrington. He better not crosses my way. It wasn't meant to your address. We are just discussing, that's all. - Ryo / Fuck Facebook

You could defend anything the same way. "Well, it got bad reviews because it was a bad product." But to say that reviews have no effect on the success of a product is mind-boggling to me. Why is there an entire industry based on reviewing products if those reviews have no impact on the product's success? - invariant - farewell FF

Good products improve after a bad review. - George Hall (Australia)

George - Or maybe the company's backers lose faith and pull their funding, drowning the baby before it has a chance to grow up. - invariant - farewell FF

One thing is for sure: If you have the power to help with your reviews, you have the power to harm with your reviews. Good products have always been suffered from bad reviews. Reviewing like he does is a personal opinion. But if you have such a power on your hand you need to choose your words wisely. You can not act like you are talking in a pub. - Ryo / Fuck Facebook

if the backers do that, then they don't think the product's worth going with. Whereas a good product won't lose backers. - George Hall (Australia)

Ryo: name one great product that was kept down by a bad review. Almost every great product has gotten a bad review. - Robert Scoble

Anyway, I'm outta here. Ryo: you can have the last word. It seems you're just pushing my buttons and I have an Apple thread to attend to. Heheh. - Robert Scoble

George, you have a very altruistic view of business. Products get killed all the time for reasons that have nothing to do with how good they are. We'd all be playing games on the Sega Dreamcast II if that weren't the case. - invariant - farewell FF

Admittedly, invariant. Guess I'm still a fan of honest business. - George Hall (Australia)

I seem to remember someone making a mint out of a crap operating system... - George Hall (Australia)

...but by the same token, over the long term, a great product fights back. - George Hall (Australia)

Well take the Dreamcast for example: If Sega would have had more capital they could have kept that business going and potentially been successful, but they just ran out of money. Had nothing to do with the product itself, it had more to do with the business model (i.e. losing money on every console sold). - invariant - farewell FF

And also because another business (Electronic Arts) decided not to support it. - invariant - farewell FF

I think, Invariant, you've pointed out it has less to do with reviews. Bad product OR bad business model. Too easy to fail. Less to do with the review or the reviewer. - George Hall (Australia)

And still no reason to have personal gripes against the reviewer - George Hall (Australia)

George, absolutely. The Dreamcast example was one of a good product that failed, not because of reviews but because of other outside factors. The point is that the good guys do not always win. Reviewers should respect their power and be ethical when they review a product. That's my only point. - invariant - farewell FF

It's just trying to make someone like Arrington a scapegoat for a product - George Hall (Australia)

's troubles. - George Hall (Australia)

Whoa, that's not what I was trying to do at all. - invariant - farewell FF

Of course, a product maker should always expect a review may not always go the way they want... - George Hall (Australia)

Regardless of anything Mike's done in the past to piss people off, I felt bad when I read the update on his post. It's really seemed like he was shook up from the comments he received. Considering the nature of them, I can't blame him. This might seem trivial, but it’s obvious that he was worried or he would have taken the time to correct the punctuation in his update. From my perspective, he’s comes across like an extremely sensitive guy, who has a few issues to deal with, just like the rest of us. - Michael Fidler

I'm just pointing out that reviewers DO have power, and that power can both positively impact or negatively impact the success of a product. As a maker of video games I have direct experience with that. - invariant - farewell FF

I doubt he will do it, but he needs to make more time for himself. If he does, I’m sure he would be a lot less abrasive and a lot happier too. You work equally hard Robert, but you love what you do, and it shows. Does Mike love what he’s does, or is it just work for him now? - Michael Fidler

I don't think Arrington expected to see people behave with such bile and vehemence over such an issue. And of course that would upset him. And it upsets Robert, too, because Robert is still his friend, even if he and Mike occasionally have an intellectual disagreement. - George Hall (Australia)

To be clear I have NO opinion on Mike or the work he does. I assume he's an ethical reviewer and I haven't heard otherwise. I just wanted to address Robert's notion that a good product will succeed despite reviews. I simply do not believe that's true 100% of the time. - invariant - farewell FF

Heck, a few weeks back, Arrington and Techcrunch were the only ones who could tell me why Friendfeed was down for a few hours. Google couldn't. Not many other tech blogs could either. And I was glad he helped us stay informed on that situation. - George Hall (Australia)

I feel like a heel for not understanding the true nature of this thread before jumping in. Let me say this in response to the REAL discussion in this thread: people should be ashamed for attacking Mike over something that was obviously a misunderstanding between himself and Leo. I hope Mike shrugs this off and continues to do just what he does now. - invariant - farewell FF

I can't believe the Gillmor gang section is gone. A year's worth of podcasts, just gone. ? WTF? - Karoli from BuddyFeed

Gillmor Gang is back on itunes! http://itunes.apple.com/WebObje... - Jack

Jack, glad to see it on iTunes. looks like NewsGang live is toast. I am so bummed. I'm going to bed. :( - Karoli

Or search "Gillmor Gang" in itunes and it's the one marked "Explicit" - Jack

It looks like some of the latest Gillmor Gangs, the ones that were only released live, are now available on iTunes. - Diego Barros 

Looking forward to listening to these. - Diego Barros 

Me too, not sure why the new feed though. The old feed is just sitting there doing nothing. - Matt Thompson

Matt, maybe the new feed's because the audio files (and feed) were living on TechCrunch's servers? Since gillmorgang.techcrunch.com is also gone? Not sure. - Diego Barros 

Leo is the holy Grail of tech for generations, to imply that he is even remotely dishonest is the same as calling all his fans dishonest and stupid, I admit I stopped following Techcrunch because of this incident, but I am not hating on Mike, I understand the jealous inner child in him made him say what he did, we all say bad things and a lynch mob is a little too far in this case. - URLREVIEWS

I think Leo was feeling bad enough for accepting a test unit and Mike's words just sent him over the edge, Leo is honest all the way, anyone who listen to his techguy show knows that, the guy even suggest free alternatives to some of his sponsors, how fan dedicated is that? Leo is Legend. - URLREVIEWS

It all comes down to comments, doesn't it? 1. Long comment threads on Friendfeed are a nightmare to read, especially on a handheld. Can somebody add a threading facility? 2. Anonymous on the internet needs to end. http://twittercism.com/anonymi... It's a poison, and it's the real story behind the Arrington/Laporte spat. - Shéa Bennett

I think the comments went way overboard in their criticism of Arrington. The angle he was approaching his questioning from (that Palm were withholding review units) was legit. Just a shame that there was a misunderstanding on Leos part to interpret it as a question of his integrity. - Jamie

The world is a hurting place and we find it much easier to attack others out of our own pain and dysfunction. Both people were sincere in their position, this example shows you how easy it is to be offended on both sides of the argument just by simply having a different perspective. It does appear Mike was questioning Leo's integrity even though the question was sincere in light of the story Mike was working on. I think we can move on and focus on more important issues. - Owen Greaves

Bloggers must go where the conversation is. TechCrunch is not real time. He'll be back. - Garin Kilpatrick

Maybe he will, maybe he won't but if he does, there's certainly no reason for anyone to smug and high horsey about it. We were the asshole on this matter, not him - and a strategic withdrawal from the forum was certainly warranted on his part temporary or permanent. - Matthew DeVries

Garin: I think Mike will come to regret deleting his account, just like Leo came to regret deleting his Twitter account. - Robert Scoble

He can always open a new one. - Amit Morson

Matthew: if I ever get to that point where I get tired of dealing with everyone here, I'll just go private. That way if I want to jump back in at a future date I'll still have my account here. I think Mike made a mistake in just deleting his account. Amit: he could, but someone already took the techcrunch URL. For a business to give that up seems to be not smart, but that's just me. - Robert Scoble

A few weeks ago I almost deleted my Twitter account and I'm glad I didn't for just that reason. - Robert Scoble

Robert - I am glad you didn't delete your twitter account ;) Just keep watering the FF garden instead ! - Susan Beebe

Robert - I'm not saying I condone his decision/action, just that I understand it. I'm sure if he were interested in reactivating/undeleting comments Paul et al would figure out a way to make it happen for him. Just that a barrier to his return is the potential for "told you you'd be back" smugness which is entirely unwarranted, and honestly prickish. - Matthew DeVries

Robert, he doesn't have to deal with everyone. There is no need to respond to each and every bad comment made at him. - Amit Morson

Robert: Mike may have lost 600 comments on TechCrunch but this thread already has 760 comments which makes it #1 on best of week, and we're all talking about TechCrunch. I'm impressed. Mike has already won from this move. - Garin Kilpatrick

Garin, considering his loses and TechCrunch scale, I can't see that as a win. - Amit Morson

Arrington has never liked FF, anyway. And what has being here done for him or Techcrunch? Has it increased his brand awareness, made him more money, got him laid? How can it be a loss when it's never been a gain? - Dawn

Amit: The comments Mike lost were stale, this is fresh and undoubtedly building awareness about Mike and TC. The only way Mike has lost is by dropping friendfeed, but at least he has done so in style. Even here he has not lost because as I said before: he'll be back. - Garin Kilpatrick

He lost his brand name, though I'm sure he can claim it back with FF. - Amit Morson

The TechCrunch brand is growing because of Mike's cunning use and abuse of FF. - Garin Kilpatrick

The TechCrunch brand is growing because of Mike's cunning use and abuse of <strike>FF</strike> all that he surveys. --FTFY Garin - Matthew DeVries

Abuse? I thought these tools were available to use however we wish. I didn't realize there are FF Nazis demanding that their use is the only legitimate use. - Dawn

There goes Godwin... :) Discussion has ended. - Ryo / Fuck Facebook

Dammit Dawn...... - Matthew DeVries

lol Thanks Matthew! - Garin Kilpatrick

Can you say BUTTHURT? - Rustic Thoughts

Glad you waited for 771 comments and 4 days of thoughtful deliberation to bring us that nugget of well thought out brilliance Rustic. The staggering intellectual rigor of your timely, measured, and informed and above all unique point truly brings the discussion to a level that rivals that of the lycium or the Algonquin round table. - Matthew DeVries

Thats a lot of big words for so early in the morning. - Rustic Thoughts

"I didn't realize there are FF Nazi's demanding that their use is the only legitimate use" -- FINALLY... Jeez... I've been sitting here waiting patiently for Godwin's Law to kick it. It's been almost 48hrs since all this happened... must be a new record. ;-) - Ken Sheppardson

I'm giving this thread a *facepalm* award for the multiple site/acct deletions (TC/FF & GG/TC), over-the-top comments, and of course Mr. "BUTTHURT" and use of the term "FF Nazi" http://friendfeed.com/ffacepa... - Richard ¿digame? Walker

What goes around comes around. Arrington is getting what he's been asking for, for a long time. - Chris Luckhardt

Totally tangential, but using BuddyFriend to read a thread with 771 comments really isn't a nice experience :) - Ian Betteridge from BuddyFeed

Actually a better idea would have been to make his account private - Abhishek

I can't find the Gillmor Gang section of TechCrunch... could that be removed too? (hopefully just temporarily) - John Wright

John: Yes, it's gone at the moment. - Ken Sheppardson

There's an unofficial Gillmor Gang podcast on itunes here: http://itunes.apple.com/WebObje... or the RSS here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - Jack

This is a tough situation. We all have reached the end of our patience at least once with someone that takes an effort to get along with, especially if we're exhausted by it. Some people are clueless about their impact on others. I've said things in those situations that I meant, but wished I had taken a higher road and said in a better way because it actually makes everything more stressful. - Keith Barrett

Keith: It wasn't just one or two people it was like 20+ people who didn't even know the full story and jumped on the band-wagon. Those 20+ people also didn't bother to read the "Ouch" post on Techcrunch or watch the 2nd Gillmor Gang - infact they probably didn't even watch the first one - they probably just saw the 1minute clip on Youtube. - Nicholas James

What a shame. What a shame this is still a mob. I've purposefully ignored this whole skirmish, having seen this coming a few weeks ago when the GG went to hell for an evening, and then another wee when Mike hung up and bailed on the show. It is a shame that Mike felt it necessary to delete his friendfeed account. It's also a shame that Mike seems to egg (mob)people on to the point of... more... - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

invariant: the impact reviewers have is strongest on their readers, and their own reliability. if an author does not evaluate products honestly it will cause their audience, which may only be a small fraction of the total market, to make more poorly informed decisions and thereby undermines the value of their writing. - Mike Chelen

Robert - Thanks for starting this thread. The calm voices and mostly sensitive nature of the comments have helped me begin to heal. I am emerging from this very trying weekend a changed person, trampled by a crowd wearing combat boots. I now know how scary mobs are. - Tina Chase Gillmor

Tina: I once was in a real mob after a San Francisco 49er Super Bowl victory (I drove through it) and I've never been so terrified. It's interesting that my friend who told me off for pushing a mob a couple of years ago has been quiet with this mob. Ahh, I love studying how people work. Keep it up, let's get back in the saddle, what Steve, Mike, and you are doing is interesting. That's why the mob formed in the first place so don't forget that. - Robert Scoble

*sigh* mobs suck - Susan Beebe

If you have a mob that theoretically can be pushed at someone, you should be judged separately. It's like being a pro karate fighter - treated in court like a weapon. - Kirill Bolgarov

Oh, by the way. techcrunch sucks and so does mashable. of course it's my personal opinion, but they have gone too far in the battles over traffic and pageviews. their destination is a tabloid with a few to no real value. the only reason i could click on a ЕС link was a good discussion onver it on friendfeed. so, they completely lost at least one reader because of their CEO's personal stuff. that's not that professional i guess - Kirill Bolgarov

Steven Perez to Steven's feed, Tex-Mex Movie Reviews, Haggis (Sean Loyless)

OH NOES! THE TEX-MEX REVIEWS HAS A NEW MEMBER!

June 8 - Comment - Like - Share

Kol Tregaskes, Giancarlo Angulo, Penguin It's Cold Outside and 11 other people liked this

Come join us: http://friendfeed.com/haggis-... - Steven Perez

2 more comments

aw, cute! - Trish Haley

Ethan was most impressed with Samantha Mathis. Less so with Christian Slater. :D - Steven Perez

Better not show him any of Penguin's photos, though. The dual images of Samantha Mathis and Penguin in stripey socks will imprint him for life. :D - Steven Perez from IM

Dan Hsiao

Apple’s Cool Matrix-Style App Wall - http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...

June 8 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Lindsay, Andy Ackerman, Giancarlo Angulo and 6 other people liked this

"Today at Apple’s WWDC event in San Francisco, Apple had a bunch of Cinema Display monitors mounted together on a wall showing what looked to be some sort of pulsating canvas. But a closer look revealed that it was actually a huge collection of icons for many of the apps available in the App Store, arranged by color. Apparently, when someone purchased one, that app’s icon would pulsate, creating the effect." (via MG Siegler - http://friendfeed.com/parisle...) - Dan Hsiao from Bookmarklet

Darren

Op-Ed Columnist - Rising Above I.Q. - NYTimes.com - http://www.nytimes.com/glogin...

June 7 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Giancarlo Angulo, Jeffrey Marsh, Joel Webber and 6 other people liked this

"A common thread among these three groups may be an emphasis on diligence or education, perhaps linked in part to an immigrant drive. Jews and Chinese have a particularly strong tradition of respect for scholarship, with Jews said to have achieved complete adult male literacy — the better to read the Talmud — some 1,700 years before any other group. The parallel force in China was Confucianism and its reverence for education. You can still sometimes see in rural China the remains of a monument to a villager who triumphed in the imperial exams. In contrast, if an American town has someone who earns a Ph.D., the impulse is not to build a monument but to pass a hat." - Darren from Bookmarklet

12 more comments

"It's that the most decisive weapons in the war on poverty aren't transfer payments but education, education, education." .... =P Really, come on. If everyone managed to get a Ph.D., there would not be Ph.D.-type jobs for all of them. - Andrew C

@Andrew - That's not what he's saying at all. Additionally, the "constant amount of work" argument is one of the cornerstones of the failed French policy to curtail unemployment by forcing a shorter work week, with the goal to divvy up the "extra" work to the unemployed (see "Naked Economics"). There is always more work to be done, and the more educated people, the more work they will create. - Darren

If everybody had a PhD, it just wouldn't matter anymore. Somebody still needs to dig ditches and sweep the floor. Just look at Cuba: every other person is a doctor, so you end up with doctors as taxi drivers, golf caddies, and so on. - Gabe

Maybe someone with a PhD will invent a device to sweep the floor. We could call it “Roomba” or something. - Amit Patel

Darren. OK, fair enough. But as a counterpoint, I'd go back to that VF article about the Icelandic financial meltdown. ( http://www.vanityfair.com/politic... ) A few decades ago, they embarked on a plan that boosted prosperity; the author said "[Iceland] has become, in effect, a machine for turning cod into Ph.D.'s." and then... more... - Andrew C

Good point, Amit. Then somebody will just have the skilled job of finding the Roombas when they get stuck, emptying their dirt boxes, and removing the crap that gets stuck in their gears. - Gabe

Gabe, robots to manage the robots. With more robots, you just can't lose. - Rishabh Mishra (p248)

I call Architect! - Andrew C

Who manages the manager robots, Rishabh? Is it elephants all the way down? - Gabe

You guys won't have anything to worry about once you enter the Matrix. - Andrew C

It's robots all the way UP. “The Architect” is a machine. - Amit Patel

D'oh! - Andrew C

Though in the extreme case (everyone has a PhD) educating everyone maximally can reach an absurd point, I don't think this really matters except in places (as in the Cuba and Iceland examples given above) that are isolated and/or have pathologically broken economies. We're in no danger of overeducating the populace in any large industrialized nation that I'm aware of, and better education (and hard work, as the article points out) *is* probably the best route to success for most people. - Joel Webber

Josh Haley

Something is not right - http://img87.imageshack.us/img87...

June 8 from delicious - Comment - Like - Share

Brent Smorgen Bleg, Zulema ◕ ◡ ◕, Jon, the Beartato of FF and 23 other people liked this

I know, there should be more shake cause he is filming it left handed... - Johnny Worthington

11 more comments

you have six fingers on your right hand... someone was looking for you. - Jim Hearts FF

*smashes Jim over the head* - Johnny Worthington

How disturbing is it that this is the ad up in my Gmail at this moment? http://fury.com/tmp... - Kevin Fox

nicely done, Johnny. - Jim Hearts FF

+1 Johnny. I just watched that last night! :) - Dylan Parker

We are men of action. Lies do not become us. - Josh Haley

See Josh, that is why I prefer to be a man of subterfuge. That way I can utilize the incredible tool that is the lie. - Joe Pierce

I see - Josh Haley

If I said I can count on one hand how many times I've seen an social internet meltdown in the last few days, now you know why. - Micah Wittman

I keep losing count..... - Mike Lewis

Look at his fingers! One, two, three… How many fingers do I see? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten. He has eleven! Eleven! This is something new. I wish I had eleven, too! - Kelly W.

Damn You Josh Haley! - BEX

Simon

May 13 from SmugMug - Comment - Like - Share

googirl, sridhars, Giancarlo Angulo and 51 other people liked this

Vacation in Italy last week. Rome, Venice and Florence. - Simon

13 more comments

wow, these are all fantastic - David Vasileff

Excellent pictures, not that that's all that surprising - Sanjay Ghemawat

totally gorgeous, I'm there in my mind - Sheri Fresonke Harper

You have such a great eye for composition. Lovely shots. What did you do in post (if anything)? - Aaron D'Souza

The spiral staircase is my favorite photo. - Chiu-Ki Chan

Thanks :) Aaron: I imported using Adobe Camera Raw and then sometimes selectively adjusted curves and rotated and cropped. http://si.smugmug.com/gallery... is HDR, all the others are from a single exposure. - Simon

so so so beautiful - StephenTsui

Awesome. :) - Satoshi Hayakawa

beautiful! - Dh'ennis Dömingö

Well done. - Piaw Na

Nice. I've got to start carrying a tripod. And my camera. And a wide angle lens. :) - Seth

If Photography was only about equipment, there'd be gobs of great photographers. Fortunately, it's also about having a good eye, skill, and fanatical devotion to technique. - Piaw Na

Good point. I've got to start carrying Simon. - Seth

Wow, the color is incredible! - Michael Turner

Kevin Rose

Leo Laporte Blows up at Mike Arrington - http://www.youtube.com/watch...

June 6 from Digg - Comment - Like - Share

Kol Tregaskes, anna sauce, Brian Hill and 52 other people liked this

Leo rocks - Carol Levesque

26 more comments

Arrington was quite a jerk on this show. the "What are you going to do about it" line was right out of Jr. High. - Jeff Jones

I liked Leo before, but now I respect him even more! Good for you not taking any shit from Arrington, Leo. If he knew you at all, he'd know you buy nearly everything you review. I've lost lots of respect for Arrington here--what a playground bully. I love that Leo just shut 'em all down! Thanks for sharing, Kevin, great stuff. I hope Leo has no regrets, because there should be none. - Paul Salzman

I've never understood why Kevin, Leo, or any other well known technology people ever give a douchebag like Arrington the time of day. - Chris Luckhardt

Leo : once again you've showed there are people we trust and follow (i.e you) and those who can't. Have been following and trusting you a long time, and will do more than ever now. - arnaudt

Leo had every right to tell that guy to shove it. Mike was questioning Leo's integrity, in an irritating and cowardly manner to boot! What self-respecting journalist wouldn't, and shouldn't, react similarly? - Ryan Shepherd

I've sometimes had a hard time reading arrington's articles on TechCrunch. They seemed to have tone that I couldn't really like. This little bit kind of solidified that thought and feeling about him. - Robert de Castro

That was awesome! Leo, your integrity has always been top notch and you shouldn't let anybody question or tarnish it! Keep up the awesome work! - Sean Simkins

What an arrogant ass. Way to stick it to him, Leo! - Shawn Poulson

This is first time i've seen him like this.But he was correct in his stand, a review unit can't really influence such a decision. - Abhishek

Arrington is a jerk. Leo is a class act all the way. SCREW YOU Arrington. your blog sucks anyway. - Rustic Thoughts

That was amazing, good job Leo - Johnathan Schultz

Leo has always been a man of integrity and surely has earned the right to give Arrington directions to Hell, when having his honor questioned. You go, Leo! --- Regular TWiT podcast, er . . . netcast listener, La-Tonia Denise Willis in Seattle - PODFICTIONONLINE

Is it just me or techcrunch.com has this unexplainable air of unpleasentness in their posts? - Alpay Erturkmen

kevin posted this? O Rly? cute. - Caroline

Caroline: if you have digg fed into friendfeed then when you digg a story it comes over to friendfeed - kevin didn't post it if you go to the digg story you can find out who did - he even beat the creator of the video which is pretty impressive - Chris Heath

I don't really know who is right, but I don't think that it's unreasonable to disclose that you were given something for free when making a recommendation about it. As matter of a fact, not disclosing it makes me question a persons integrity. - Ron Hagenhoff

it wasn't FREE it was a 7-day review unit that he only asked for because he couldn't go wait in line for one. it was launched on saturday and leo does the radio show on saturday - therefore he reluctantly asked for a review unit - does that make sense? - Chris Heath

Well since it wasn't free why get so angry? Arrington asked for Leo to make it clear to everyone that the unit was free. Wasn't free end of story. Obviously, there's prior issues between the 2 and I just think that it's weird all these people picking sides. - Ron Hagenhoff

After watching a 2nd time I realized that Arrington pushed on with the FREE accusation even after Leo had said that the Pre wasn't free, That it was just a 7 day demo unit, and that he was thinking of buying one. My bad! I've heard that Arrington has since apologized though and that's a respectable thing to do. - Ron Hagenhoff

I watched this about 4 times and wish I could make out what Mike was saying when they all were talking. I applaud Leo for standing up on the show live yet kinda sad to see him this way. I understand why Leo got the review unit. Mike went to far even if he thought Leo was wasn't serious. Edit: This is Mikes post on TechCrunch http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... - James Reeves

While I like listening to Leo and admire his work, I do not think it is fair to do all this 'Mike' bashing. - Kevin J Hatton

Sure, Mike apologizes and becomes adult about it now, after realizing once again that he doesn't hold near the audience that Leo does. If the tables were turned, I doubt he'd ever give Leo a second thought. What a turd. - Fleagle

Can you say "Ooops I better kiss butt before I lose all my readers?" - Rustic Thoughts

They've both apologized and moved on, I do believe each side has its own valid reasons. Read here http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... - Jorge Escobar

Leo is a bigger man for accepting Arrington's apologies. I still wont read his blog however. - Rustic Thoughts

I agree. I am not sure why some of these guys give Arrington the time of day. Way to go Leo! - Adam Martin

I don't understand how anyone would come on a show and blatantly press an integrity issue, valid or not, with the _host_ of the show. That would never end well. - Shawn Poulson

Chris Messina

In defense of microformats - http://factoryjoe.com/blog...

June 7 from FactoryCity - Comment - Like - Share

Sean McBride, Nicholas James, Daniel Rowley and 4 other people liked this

Neither wrong or misguided. - Todd Hoff

2 more comments

I agree with your position Chris, we must to be pragmatic to make the next step. Microformats was and is a necessity, hope that RDF guys can see the difference and remain constructive. - Dan Romescu

I really loved the term "human-scale", totally agree with the possible adaption rate. And that drives the future. - Burcu Dogan

The belief that ultra-minimal and human-friendly microformats can't have a consistent underlying infrastructure is misguided. One can be terse and logically consistent in designing semantic markup languages. RDFa is much too cluttered. Rebuild from the ground up. Make it clean and simple. - Sean McBride

Danielle Fong

K (programming language) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...

June 7 from delicious - Comment - Like - Share

Giancarlo Angulo and Christopher Granade liked this

Robert Scoble

Use your phone as a digital business card with this: - http://ourdoings.com/roberts...

June 4 from Robert Scoble - Comment - Like - Share

Mike Elliott, Ozkan Altuner, Michael Lehman and 19 other people liked this

http://www.dubmenow.com This is Chris Hopkins co-founder of Dub. They are working on a new version that hooks up to Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn and other data that will come in late June. @dubmenow is his Twitter address. - Robert Scoble

24 more comments

I'm still waiting for the time when we will be able to touch each other's phones to exchange info. - Sasha Kovaliov(.com)

looks awesome Thanks buddy - Lawton Chiles

looks great! Waiting for the Europe version ;) - Lorenzo Strambi

This looks promising especially for sales people with many contacts and are always on the road. - Lon Cohen

Very sweet. This is the type of app that drives a market. - Fred McClimans

US only :( People - reviews! :) - Sasha Kovaliov(.com)

have you seen SnapDat on iPhone? - Goktug Gedik

Trying it out now. - Brian Bufalo

cool idea - Susan Beebe

Grrr! Looks like contact sharing done right, but alas, US-only. :( - Grey Drane

Hey Robert, Check out My Name is E, they already handle Twitter, FaceBook, etc. Let's set up a demo when your free. (fyi, I am on their Board) - khrisloux

So is this like a plaxo client for the phone? (i.e. canonical copy held be web service) - Boris Gordon

Great idea, bummer that the app is failing on my Blackjack. Looks like I'll have to wait for a future release. - Paul Dockter

Looked great but was immediately disappointed that it didn't work in Europe. US only at the moment. - Angus Neil

After using it, it seems to be missing useful features. You can't add a profile picture. You can't add a paragraph to list personal or professional information. Essentially, it's just contact information. Why not leverage the power of this being electronic and add features? - Paul Maez

Why can you only add one IM service and one Social link? No pic either? - Shawn Hickman

I have to wonder whether these types of applications can ever really generate the traction needed to become anything more than a passing fad. If you want to exchange business information why not SMS/email/whatever your .tel address? Or is no-one using .tel? - Gee Ranasinha

To answer and ask you a question, what is .tel? - Brian Bufalo from IM

http://www.telnic.org/ - Gee Ranasinha

Interesting. - Brian Bufalo from IM

No software to install, and works in every country. Here's my info if you're interested http://kexino.tel - Gee Ranasinha

Gee, does that mean that everyone has to buy a .tel address? - Shawn Hickman

err...yes, in the same way that you'd buy a URL. But at about €15/$20 per year it's not that bad. What I like about it is that all your details are stored directly in the DNS without the need for an application, website or anything else and the information is accessible from any device. - Gee Ranasinha

Reminds me of the old Palm Pilot; let you "beam" your contact info via infrared. That was great fun - Bill Alpert from twhirl

Robert Scoble

Thanks for the photo Techmama! (She got me using my equipment on board the Nimitz): - http://www.flickr.com/photos...

June 1 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Roshan Ramachandran, تنهاترین انجل, Edwin Khodabakchian and 61 other people liked this

nice. visited the nimitz when i was 11 years old in France. lots of memories - Ouriel Ohayon

20 more comments

The photos I was shooting with that monster lens, which is a 600mm f4.0 Canon L Series lens on a Canon 5D MKII camera (I had my old 5D with me too, and it's holding a 70-200 f2.8 Canon L Series lens): http://www.flickr.com/photos... - Robert Scoble

THAT is really a monster! - Olcayto Cengiz

Just had a moment of lense envy :) - Asgeir

Asgeir: no need to be envious. You can rent these lenses from some camera shops (I rented this one from Keeble and Shuchat in Palo Alto for $300 a week. Far more affordable than the $8,000 or so it'd cost to buy a new one). - Robert Scoble

Rental shops are great for getting the right equipment for the occasion without having to buy it. Makes life so much easier on the bank account. - Jim Lavin

Robert, here's a good one of you + Guy: http://www.flickr.com/photos... - Andrew Nystrom

Another one w/ you, your gear + smiley Dave: http://www.flickr.com/photos... - Andrew Nystrom

And one of your roomie and the #hastag mafia: http://www.flickr.com/photos... - thanks for sharing all your great pics. Really enjoyed the on-board convo, too. - Andrew Nystrom

that lens is so crazy.. it must be such a pain in the ass to lug around everywhere.. whats it weigh, like 25 lbs? its like carrying a small child! - Jason Pollock

Scoble did you weigh it? lol - Susan Beebe

11.8 lb according to its specs - Brian Sullivan

Wow, you actually handheld that lens throughout the visit? Hardcore. =) - ronin

A 600mm shooting handheld? You are hardcore. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

nice shot of you taking a nice shot - Cee Bee

holy mother of god that things huge. - ralphsaunders

i guess this http://www.flickr.com/photos... is the guy on the deck then.... - ralphsaunders

ralphsaunders: yeah, I'm pretty sure that's the same guy. - Robert Scoble

Eric: I had the 600 mm on a monopod. - Robert Scoble

Robert, do you have a blog post about your camera kit anywhere? Just interested. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com

Eric: nope, although I should do one. - Robert Scoble

I'd be thrilled with a nice zoom that went to 300-400mm. One of these days. - Ken Camp

Rachel Lea Fox

To the rescue by ~Draken413o on deviantART - http://draken413o.deviantart.com/art...

June 3 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Kol Tregaskes, Felicia Yue, Mona Nomura and 26 other people liked this

"Batman and Robin to the rescue zone. No parking between 7am to 7pm unless authorised batmobile." - Rachel Lea Fox from Bookmarklet

3 more comments

Ta na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na...Batman! - April Buchheit

love that! I want one for my room. - Frankie Warren

The one scene from the TV show that has always stuck with me is when Batman stops to put money in the meter. Robin says that it's the Batmobile and no one would give it a ticket. Then Batman drops some civic bitchslap saying that funds go to improve roads etc... That's pimp... That's CIVIC PIMP! - Johnny Worthington

+Johnny - Rachel Lea Fox

Jeremy Zawodny

I'm older today.

June 4 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Giancarlo Angulo liked this

(jeff)isageek

Quantum Of Spock - http://bitchville.tumblr.com/post...

June 4 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Lysender, if, Giancarlo Angulo and 2 other people liked this

Alp

Same-sex couples fight for immigration rights - CNN.com - http://edition.cnn.com/2009...

June 4 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Iván Abrego, Giancarlo Angulo, John (a.k.a. dendroica) and Jess liked this

same-sex couples are forced to move to another country. what do you think? - Alp from Bookmarklet

3 more comments

I think it's sad they have to move. But it's not new. People have been changing countries to protect their rights for centuries. - Jess

Scandalous that is. People should be free in their choice of partner. In all countries. - Ton Zijp

Sad state of affairs. Institutionalized discrimination is still rampant in many countries. Whether because of sex, religion or colour. Whatever declarations of freedom may say, in practice small minded parctitioners of hate wring their hands in glee over how the real world works. Prop 8 showed how people really think when asked point blank about the non-issue (as in non-of-your-business... more... - Henk de Kruyff

You can see the list here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Alp

Steve Chou to Steve's feed, The Apple Room, iPhone

All iPhone 3.0 Rumors

June 4 - Comment - Like - Share

Walt Ruppar, Ronald, George Dearing and 17 other people liked this

Great post Steve.... Source: http://tgrblog.com/2009... From the blog: "Here’s a graphical representation I put together of the dozens of rumors that have been circulating over the past few months regarding the third generation iPhone that’s likely to be announced next week at WWDC 2009" - Anthony K. Valley ©

Scion

June 4 from Flickr - Comment - Like - Share

Giancarlo Angulo liked this

Paul Buchheit

Who owns water parks and how much does a good one cost?

June 3 - Comment - Like - Share

Rochelle, imabonehead, Charlie Anzman and 8 other people liked this

where? - Giancarlo Angulo

33 more comments

Location will probably be the biggest variable to the cost. Here's a $10MM one in Utah: http://www.heraldextra.com/news... - τorƍue

I don't know. A nice one somewhere in the US. - Paul Buchheit

Maybe you can negotiate for some land from the State of California. Slide down Yosemite? - τorƍue

I'm so confused by this post... you want to buy a water park? like with water slides? - Frankie Warren

Probably not. I saw a show on tv about water parks and it just made me wonder who owns them and how much it would cost to buy one. - Paul Buchheit

ah ok :) I know Knott's owns Soak City here in SoCal... there's also one affiliated with six flags magic mountain. I think bigger amusement parks normally operate them; just a guess. - Frankie Warren

Here's $9.3MM 30 min from Chicago: http://www.dailyherald.com/story... - τorƍue

You could then have the "Google Wave Pool" if you owned your own water park - Jesse Stay

I'll take two. - Michael McKean

And the FriendFeed stream - Jesse Stay

I used to love MarineWorld - anna sauce

Hahaha! - Michael McKean

$6MM "phase one", pirate-themed, Augusta, GA: http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories... - τorƍue

You could even have a Twitter fail whale that shoots water and the kids can play under - Jesse Stay

++ Jesse - τorƍue

You could have an Amazon S3 bucket o' water - Jesse Stay

You could name all the water slides after Slide Facebook apps - Jesse Stay

$6.4MM Baton Rouge: http://www.2theadvocate.com/news... - τorƍue

I've always wanted to do either an amusement park or water park that incorporates one of our mountains here in Utah. I'd build tunnels and the works up and down the mountain. Then, in the winter, we could turn it into a ski resort. - Jesse Stay

I was thinking of something with water slides and stuff, like http://www.rwsplash.com/ - Paul Buchheit

$12MM, South Dakota: http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/article... - τorƍue

I love water parks! I think we'd have to take a family trip to a geeky one. - MaryB, BrandingBroadOfFF

1. Usually mid-sized corporations (as part of a theme park) 2. A good one would probably cost about $35 million. 3. I think you should BUY ONE so I can bring my family there on vacation. - Shannon

Amazon sells water parks http://amzn.com/B001LNYETS :) - Gary Burd

Dan Snyder Owner of the Redskins owns several Wet and Wild / Six Flags Parks. The City of Key West is talking about building one on vacated Navy property and they have a prospectus. I will try to locate a copy. http://keywestchronicle.blogspot.com/2008... - Eric Logan

Insurance on these puppies has got to be pricey. - Thomas Hawk

This wouldn't be a "global warming" inspired business model by any chance, would it? ;) - Rick Turoczy

http://bahamaconchclt.org/Images... - Eric Logan

In the future water parks will be free with a 3-year contract to buy the water. - Micah Wittman

I know the family who owns Golf Land. They have a water park. Would you like me to ask re: the park or the whole chain? - Louis Gray

@Paul, are you planning to run a waterpark/zoo given your recent interest of chickens and mini cows? - imabonehead

maybe the cows and chickens will live in the waterpark - τorƍue

That might be too messy imabonehead. Waterpark water is already kind of scary. Louis, if you happen to be chatting with them, it would be very interesting to know both numbers. - Paul Buchheit

I can't even imagine the insurance costs / tort liability risk. - O.Shane

Bindu Reddy

Wondering if anyone on FF has experience starting an internet "small business". i.e. has started a site that makes about 5K a month. If so, what is the name of the site and how hard was it to get it started?

June 3 - Comment - Like - Share

Giancarlo Angulo, Andre P. Siregar, Adam Kazwell and 2 other people liked this

Helen Sventitsky

For Lindsey Is Fierce - because there are worse ways one could humiliate oneself on the internet on a Saturday night than to, er, "vogue".

May 30 - Comment - Like - Share

Greg Birch, Mycaptain, RAPatton and 71 other people liked this

ROFL! Awesome! - Alex Scoble

17 more comments

I do my best. :) - Helen Sventitsky

She did demand "pics" after all. :D - Helen Sventitsky

Thank you for not including the conical, um, adornments ;-) - LogEx

Oh yes, those. Details, details! :D I guess i should have dyed my hair bright blonde and tied it back in a severe ponytail as well...nah... - Helen Sventitsky

HA! That's awesome. I'll let the hair color slide for now . . . for now ;) - Lindsey is Fierce!

Excellent!! Love it :D - Penny

:-) - Mitchell Tsai

:) NICE!!! - shanah

:-D - Dobromir Hadzhiev

I have a feeling that I'm never going to live this down. Damn, but you guys make a girl feel good. :D - Helen Sventitsky

WOMG!! Love!!!!!! - Myrna

Epic Vougage, LOL! - Thunderwing from twhirl

Oops, meant Epic Voguage, sorry for the misspelling, LOL! - Thunderwing from twhirl

thanks ;) - Helen Sventitsky

You rawk. :-) - Mathew A. Koeneker

:-D - Anna Haro

Awesome - RAPatton

*giggle* *curtseys* - Helen Sventitsky

Bindu Reddy

The most annoying thing on Twitter is the fact that you have to limit your posts to 140 characters...

June 2 - Comment - Like - Share

Louis Gray, Sebastian, Lee and 4 other people liked this

Apparently that's what makes it so awesome though. 130 would be too few, and 150 too many. - Paul Buchheit

17 more comments

Agreed. Sometimes, I just need to be verbose :-) - Doug Jones

140 characters is the main point of twitter so you can send and receive a message from your phone - Lee

Agree. But I suppose that's the point of Twitter - Soup

Link to a blog post if you need more. - Erik Craddock

I understand the issue with SMS.... maybe there could be a character counter that when it goes beyond 140 warns you that the message is going get chopped off for SMS users of twitter. However you have to struggle so much to get your message across it's painful... I think Twitter is awesome because it has a cool pub-sub model that allows anyone to easily share stuff. Not because of the 140 character limit - Bindu Reddy

You can always post from FriendFeed and cc twitter, which will leave a link back to the full entry. - Paul Buchheit

there is also some website that splits up your twitter and I think another one that shortens your words to fit 140 Chr - Lee

Paul, I know.. but it would be far simpler if someone didn't have to click to go somewhere else to see the message. Lee. Sounds really interesting would love to know the name of the website. - Bindu Reddy

140 chars seems to be their thing. Smart twitter clients could auto-expand the ff.im links to get the full content (just as they decode twitpic, etc). - Paul Buchheit

http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... has some info, i've never used it though.. - Lee

Lee, do you think there are really many people who get twitter updates via SMS nowadays? I'd think that'd be massively annoying after a while. And kinda silly, given the vast number of twitter clients available for popular phones nowadays. So I wonder if Twitter will ever, well, loosen the 140 character requirement. But then again, probably not, since brevity is part of its charm I suppose :) - Adam Lasnik

I agree with adam. But the 140 character limit also helps in designing interfaces. It's more uniform! - Giancarlo Angulo

I thnk its bst to jst 2 lmt th nmbr of vwls u use :) - Bill Strathearn

I'm with you on the design/charm factor, but I think when they started Twitter they imagined replacing SMS and then being able to contact people on any device. To me it makes huge sense to try and take over the mobile phone market with Twitter....who do you know who doesn't have a phone? - Lee

Yeah but what mobile phone doesn't have internet access at this point? This negates the need for sms. The 140 char limit doesn't seem to make a lot of sense but there are plenty of ways around it until Google Wave comes out :) - Erik Craddock

140 character bursts is devolution in real time... - Adi

I with you on the point that all phones have internet, but when this started (2005 I think) not all phones did. I'm not defending 140 characters I just think that's what the reasoning is. - Lee from email

The 140 char limit is why there several Twitter iPhone clients and 2 ff clients - Shivanand Velmurugan

Mathew™ one of a kind to Mathew™'s feed, The Apple Room

iPhone Rumor Round Up Chart | Cult of Mac - http://cultofmac.com/iphone-...

June 3 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Todd K. Edwards, Kenta Sakatani, mridul and 6 other people liked this

this video capability better be a firmware update and not hardware! all else looks kind of speculative - Cee Bee

2 more comments

Even if it is firmware the better camera quality is going to be hardware. - Mathew™ one of a kind

makes sense, i don't mind that all that much, but video capability should be a feature for all owners of the iphone imo - Cee Bee

Agreed. And it can be done. Jailbroken phones have video. - Mathew™ one of a kind

Atul Arora

Cory Doctorow: Search is too important to leave to one company – even Google |Technology |guardian.co.uk - http://www.guardian.co.uk/technol...

June 3 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Daniel Rowley, Gary, Nicholas James and 8 other people liked this

"It may seem as unlikely as a publicly edited encyclopedia, but the internet needs publicly controlled search" - Atul Arora from Bookmarklet

Giancarlo Angulo › Likes