Efter att under något år jobbat med att få a) en byrå b) kunder att förstå och våga jobba med WP istället för svindyra och kassa CMS-system så känns listan som något jag kunnat skriva (åtminstone fram till de mer designtekniska grejerna). Bra genomgång.
- Niclas Strandh
Hmm, jag har slutat att kolla om jaiku är upp och rullar igen eller inte : / Känns lite sorgligt, även om jag är övertygad om att jag skulle få veta det snabbt nog här.
@Peter: Slutat – som i slutat att tänka att jag ska kolla om Jaiku är uppe. Kollade iofs i morse... Det är ändå lite skönt att du har koll ; )
- Gitta Wilén
Jag funderade på tidigare idag om ingen gjort något som kollar jaiku.com varje minut för att se efter förändring.
- David Hall
Satt precis och funderade på en sådan David. RSS är ju lite overkill för vissa men det kan ju inte vara så svårt att göra en koppling mellan ping (inte webbtjänsten) och ett mail som går iväg.
- Tommie Nordholm
Jag kom på vad det handlade om : ) @Annika:Praliner låter bra. Får ju äta sånt – NU NÄR JAG KAN TRÄNA IGEN!! @Anja: Omega3 kanske vore en bra pryl att testa hsh? Vad funkar bäst? Kapselform? Vilket märke som helst? Eller sälfett? Böckling kanske?
- Gitta Wilén
@gitta har ingen aning - är fiskallergiker ;)
- Anja Säker
Jag måste sluta med att skriva obegripliga förkortningar på mina ärenden... @Anja:Med risk för att blotta min okunnighet, men är säl en fisk? Är du allergisk mot Omega3? Eller är det en massa annat fiskjunk med på köpet oljan?
- Gitta Wilén
@gitta Omega 3 behöver iofs inte nödvändigtvis komma från fisk. Och nej, säl är inte en fisk - ha ha! (läste nog inte ditt svar tillräckligt noga för att se att en säl hade smugit sig in - sorry) Men ofta snackas det ju om att "Ät mer fisk för det är så nyttigt pga omega -3".
- Anja Säker
@skivan: vi släpper en jaikuvariant tillsammans med en massa andra nyheter denna vecka på Dashnotes, fast då får du ju iofs dokument, kalender, todos, kontakter m.m. på köpet. ;-)
- Annika Lidne
from feedalizr
@annika. Låter spännande. Ser fram emot att kika närmare på det.
- Johan Bryggare
@annika, systemet verkar riktigt bra! Jag skall sätta upp ett konto och titta vidare för några andra företag.Jag skall även testa wordpresstemat för att se om de anställda överhuvudtaget är intresserade.
- skivan
@skivan, @Johan Bryggare, @deeped: det börjar närma sig något vi känner oss nöjda med. Dashnotes är ju egentligen inte tänkt för supergeeks som vill ha det absolut utlimata i varje tjänst och plockar ihop sin egen bukett som ständigt förändras, utan vara en smart, social och lätthanterlig tjänst för företag med vanliga anställda som vill få så mycket som möjligt gjort på enklast och snabbaste sätt.
- Annika Lidne
Discussion: Is it ok to share music that you've purchased digitally and give a copy to your friends (without them paying). Is this right or wrong? What impacts does this have to labels, artists, consumers and the economy?
The last time we discussed this on twitter, it was regarding an article that suggested "copying is stealing", let's try to explore both sides of the issues. It's an important topic that's not going away.
- Jeremiah Owyang
Yes, I'd say that this is ok. Friends share and this would be considered fair use.
- Thomas Hawk
Whew. This is a huge topic. I need to gather my thoughts.
- Kyle Lacy
are you talking like 1986 with audio cassette mixtapes, even further back to the oral tradition of storytelling, or modern napster-style copywrite issues? Either way the impact is improved distribution and exposure for the artist/label, a broader selection and ease of choice for the consumer, and a need for the market economy to adapt to these changes.
- Pete D
i have operated a radio station on the internet for nearly eight years now and paid royalties each month for many of those years. i am able to share the music i play with my listeners without them paying, so i feel fine sharing music with my friends that they haven't paid for. it has also been my experience that a lot of my listeners (and friends), after hearing a song i share that they haven't heard before, will write and ask who an artist is and where they can buy.
- carlotta fancypants
Vincent, that's pretty black and white, thanks.
- Jeremiah Owyang
Are we talking moral/immoral or legal/illegal?
- iTad
Tad, it spans both camps. The question is, is it "ok" to share. It sounds like each individual is going to individualize what's "ok' for them
- Jeremiah Owyang
just a small note that the notion of "Friends" is what's changed most radically over the past 10 years, more so than content-ownership. I don't think any artist or label would mind you sharing their track with 5 of your friends, and didn't build for the contingency that you may have 500 "friends."
- Marko Bon
morally no. Legally yes. I give books to friends and I think it is the same train of thought. They are both digitally available and transferrable
- Greg Bond
from twhirl
No. Playing it for them is Fair Use. Giving them a copy is not. Loaning it to them is. @Carlotta, what you describe, though, isn't handing over a copy. It's playing it for them.
- Cyndy
PS, from what I heard the RIA closed down Muxtape friday, although they claim differently http://muxtape.tumblr.com/ . Clearly the mixtape analogy doesn't hold water in the digital landscape for the content-owners, nor should it -- although it sure was a lovely site.
- Marko Bon
Record Labels are just marketing companies. They need to find a new model. It doesn't matter if piracy is right or wrong it is here to stay. If piracy is as damaging as they say it is, they are foolish for not focusing all their energy on adapting to the new market conditions.
- Geoff Schultz {TF}
@marko or 5000 friends at college campuses with shared p2p networks
- Jeremiah Owyang
Record labels aren't the only ones losing out though... performers (they aren't all wealthy yet), unknown songwriters and composers who get tiny royalties to begin with, arrangers and etc. there's a plethora of people behind the scenes who lose money from piracy. How can that ever be good or "ok"? Eventually it has to lead to talented people being forced to do something else to make ends meet, then everybody loses.
- Scott Bannon
Jeremiah, what happens if I share my hard drive out.. but its loaded with images. music, files et al ? I am not explicating sharing any artist /album or Record label. I am sharing a device .. which host's my paid content. How will this fit into the convo -is it privacy or piracy ?
- Peter Dawson
I don't think it's a blanket "right" or "wrong" issue. I have given some mp3s to friends, and I don't think I was "wrong" to do so. I've been given mp3s, and bought the artist's CDs as a result. Giving one mp3 to a friend and saying "This guy's great, check out his music," in the hope they'll buy that artist's music, is reasonable to me. As someone who's tinkered around with music, I'd have no problems if people did that with my music.
- Brent Newhall
I just can't convince myself that there's anything wrong with sharing a copy of a number (which is what any digital file is) with anyone else. When I acquire digital entertainment files - music or video, I generally make a payment to whatever service I acquire them from, not out of a sense of "right and wrong" or "legal or illegal" but because I want to in some small way give back to the creator of said piece of art. I'd much rather pay the entertainer directly, as I did with NIN's last couple of albums.
- iTad
@Tad NIN , broke the model in terms music delivery.. they made nearly $750K within 24 hrs.. .. they cut the Label company out.. So with no hype marketing budgets etc etc.. direct to consumer works.
- Peter Dawson
@Tad, using your number perspective, it isn't that you're paying for a number, you're paying for a giant series of numbers (what a digital file actually is) arranged in a specific and unique pattern that brings you entertainment or pleasure. So, you're paying for the skills, talents and service that went into arranging those numbers in that unique and specific pattern. Does that make any sense? <--haven't had enough coffee yet today
- Scott Bannon
Thomas- I disagree that it's fair use. Fair use doctrine usually follows what you can do with a book. You can't copy a whole book and give it to your friend. You can copy excerpts for free speech or training purposes. You can even make a copy for archival purposes, but when sharing with your friends you have to give them the original book. Same thing with CDs.
- Scoble, Alex Scoble
@Cyndy, i really wasn't clear (they only give you so much space to write here). i have (and do) share music by burning to disc and giving those discs to friends sometimes. a large portion of the music i listen to and play on my station are by artists who are not on labels or are on very small labels and see very little distribution. i believe that by sharing (either on my station or by burning a disc and giving it to a friend) i am helping in the distribution of the music in hopes that others will buy.
- carlotta fancypants
Yes, it is ok. Artists, and their respected labels, make most of their money from shows and goods, you guys.
- Mona Nomura
@Scott Good idea, but the big costs in the music industry are in distribution and marketing. Most signed artists only get about 6-10% of CD/mp3 sales from the label. The rest goes into that incredibly efficient machine that is the modern record label. Basically, when you buy a CD (or an mp3) you are paying for some record label rep to take a radio PM out for drinks, not for an arrangement of music in digital form.
- Sam Levine
Perfectly ok. You used to have to pay for Newspapers and Magazines and it was illegal to make copies of them for your office and for friends. Now they encourage you to share with everyone. The industry evolved with the new technology and changed their business models. In some cases it meant their demise. The recording industry has to do the same. No one laments the buggy whip makers and blacksmiths of 100 years ago, vocations which existed for eons before disappearing in a blink of an eye due to tech.
- Adam Turetzky
I'm no fair use expert but i believe that simple sharing with a friend is covered under that statute.
- Morgan
@Mona, songwriters, arrangers and many session artists make all of their money from CD sales and zero from shows and goods. These folks always get overlooked in this discussion because nobody knows their names, but without them our iPods would be empty and piracy kills these people financially.
- Scott Bannon
@Sam, I don't disagree that labels make the bulk off of CD's, and I'd even agree that most labels can survive the percentage hit piracy costs them. But it's the people behind the scenes who can't afford to take the hit that are harmed most, and ultimately that's going to cost all of us. Hey, I love Madonna but without the dozens of songwriters earning pennies per CD sale that none of us know about she'd be an unknown table-dancer in Detroit today.
- Scott Bannon
Being a part of the industry, the bulk of your income is from shows and merchandise and endorsements. CD sales are a small part of your income even if you own publishing on your songs. This is why there are major artists out there touring themselves to death.
- Rahsheen the Dream
Last week, my younger sister gave me a blank CD to do just this, and I instead opted to buy it for her as a gift on iTunes. I think as the option to purchase is so easy, you should err on the side of integrity, even if copying is legal.
- Louis Gray
I would say that it's probably "wrong" to distribute copies of music you don't own, whether you purchased it or not. That being said, I also think it's all too easy to share media these days and you can easily over-step your bounds without even thinking about it. Most people don't give a second thought to stuff like this. The industry needs to adapt. Ignoring record labels for a second, the artist needs a way to make their music so easy to buy that fans won't bother trying to distribute it on their own.
- Rahsheen the Dream
Or artists need to learn to evolve their business to fit society/technology and/or service the niche. You know what used to be a booming business for 1000's of years? Making saddles for horses. What if these guys sued everyone who bought a car for Transportation mode circumvention? http://saddlemakers.org/ Geoff Smith from Nashville and Jonathan Coulton are two examples of artists doing just that, innovating in the face of change.
- Adam Turetzky
Personally? I don't think we can kid ourselves that it is "fair use". I absolutely agree with people who think the industry sucks... if you decide not to buy into it then don't buy into it. Boycott. You have many other options and can buy music from other artists and outlets. What there is no real way to put a ethics spin on is stealing it. Intellectual property is still property and it's creator should be free to license it in any way they choose.
- Soulhuntre
Technically speaking I believe it’s not legal, but I won’t go so far as to say it’s wrong. I believe a lot of it has to do with the ‘intent’ of the person doing the sharing. If the intent is to send it to someone so they can listen to it, and decide if they’d like to purchase the media (whether CD or file) and then delete the copied file after doing so after a reasonable amount of time...
more...
- Chris Gray
Property and money are fictional concepts. As a society we decide on conventions, and the having bits/bytes available for almost $0.00 cost may cause a massive redefinition of the concepts of property, money flow, creation/distribution/marketing credit. Ramsey pricing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... is one example of a differential pricing model. Drugs for the 3rd world...are like software/music for poor people. Does it help society to tell "John" that he can't run pirated Windows? Not really
- Mitchell Tsai
There was a controversy about digital books ~10 years ago. What if the only 2 copies of your book that were purchased were the ones for the Library of Congress? Licensing and copyright are also fictional legal concepts. During college I was a massive pirater, then I ran many software companies and made my living from selling software. We're revisiting a classic economic problem - Mary might be able to pay $0.05 for a song, but if we set a fixed price at $1.00, she doesn't benefit.
- Mitchell Tsai
Also to who mentioned session artists. If the record labels weren't so bent on making performers "marketable" without discretion to their actual talent, perhaps these session artists with actual skill and talent would get the places on stage they deserve. Let's not forget the fake garbage these labels have been running through computer algorithms to make them appeal to the bell curve, and how the ART has suffered because of it. What cost is society paying to not have its actual songs sung.
- Geoff Schultz {TF}
My general experience has been that people WANT to find and purchase good music. This is the fuundemental reason we share. And yes, it is sharing - not pirating. The music industry has conditioned everyone post-Napster to think of themselves as criminals if they share an album with a friend. The fact of the matter is that the artist makes next to nothing for the album sale in the first...
more...
- Nick Austad
from twhirl
Nick: Artists make ~$1 per album sold thru major distributor, and $10-20 by selling out of their trunk. $1 x 10,000 copies = $10,000. It's a lot of money. The argument that artists make more money at concerts is a non-starter for me. You should be able to make a living releasing wonderful music into the world. We just need a mechanism that works. (and high school students generally aren't able to pay $20,000 for all the music on their iPod...)
- Mitchell Tsai
I'm curious why the distinction between "purchasing digitally" versus buying the CD and ripping it down to MP3? Was there any reason why you targeted digital purchases in your question @Jeremiah ?
- TDavid
I have over 100,000 mp3s. I want to make an offsite backup of these files in case my house burns down. My brother and another friend are holding my backup copies for me. That to me is fair use.
- Thomas Hawk
I can still hear the difference between MP3s and my 1000+ CD collection. Although I mostly stopped buying CDs 10 years ago because I didn't want to dump money down a useless sink. Usually, I only buy CDs now if I'm buying direct from the artist and they receive all $10-20 of the CD price.
- Mitchell Tsai
(Och vill man utveckla: Att internet skulle leda till att alla fick "sin egen tryckpress" sa man redan 1995, men det var inte sant då. Men sju-åtta år senare var det det - för då fanns infrastrukturen och genomslaget, och de riktigt enkla publiceringsverktygen. Revolutionen behövde Wordpress.)
- Erik Stattin
Fast det var relativt sant. Om man tänker på alla vanity-webbar som fanns via Geocities etc. så finns det klara samband. Skillnaden ligger i att det är ännu enklare, att produktionsmedlen är ännu mer "mänskliga" än någonsin tidigare.
- Niclas Strandh
Jag tänkte just att FriendFeed ändå är rätt sjyst. Gillar hur meddelanden från längre ut i grafen bubblar upp för att många har kommenterat/gillat. Nodal points...
- Peter Lindberg
tycker att det år svårt att veta vad man missat sedan sist man var inne
- skivan
Och jag saknar den raka listan med meddelanden och kommentarer om vartannat.
- Peter Lindberg
ser mig alltid om efter andra tjänster. Fördelen med FF är att det är en lifestream på riktigt.
- Niclas Strandh
måttligt impad. Tycker FF funkar som en samlingspunkt men jag gillar Jaiku bättre som snackhörna.
- Annika Lidne
En grej jag inte gillar med FF är att man bara får mejl-alert vid kommentarer *när man inte varit på FriendFeed "på ett tag"*. Har flera gånger upptäckt gamla kommentarer jag missat.
- Peter Lindberg
Jag kommer att vandra tillbaka till le bubblo del Jaiku utan tvekan. För mig är det olika tjänster, olika behov. Så länge tiden finns finns jag på båda.
- Tommie Nordholm
Jag kommer använda Jaiku ett tag till. Jag tror på version 2. När den sedan slutar vara i "Beta" så hoppas jag på en bra upptid. Grejen är dock att det finns ingen annan tjänst som är som Jaiku. Jag testar lite Pownce men det är inte samma sak för att det inte fungerar som Jaiku.
- Alexander
Pownce fungerar ju i princip som Jaiku.
- Niclas Strandh
Om man endast är ett fan ser man inte inlägg på förstasidan. Dessutom dyker inte alla kommentarer upp. Antingen är det en bugg eller så fungerar det så.
- Alexander
from Alert Thingy
@Niclas: I princip, ja, men du ser bara kommentarer till dina inlägg, inte andras kommentarer till andra kontakters inlägg, ens om de som kommenterar är kontakter till dig. Den detaljen tycker jag gör mycket på Jaiku, att man blir involverad alla diskussioner dina kontakter deltar i.
- Peter Lindberg
"Pownce fungerar ju i princip som Jaiku." förutom du lägger på hela biten med filer som man kan ladda upp; att du kan private-message en eller flera kontakter och sköta snack "bakom stängda dörrar" osv. men ja- både är microbloggar :)
- Mathias Wiberg
En viktig sak att lära: att om man har en tjänst som kan gå ner bör man se till att man har sin blogg på en annan server/en annan lina... Jaikus blog är nere också, och jag antar att de inte använder Twitter :)