Actually, as far as I can tell, Like in FB does do something: it's basically an empty comment, so you get notified of new comments that occur after you Like it.
- Mistletoe Glen
@Glen: it's true but what bothers me most is that unlike friendfeed, fb delivers a separate mail for every person that comments on that post. #lame
- 'Like' robot (frɐnc)
I would just like to go on record here and clearly state that, were I able to do what this lion is doing, I WOULD NOT! NO! NEVER! EVER! Thank you.
- Mark "DerBingle" J
Mark, not even if they were dipped in chocolate?
- Adrian
Yau'll are some sick _ucks. Let the King have a private moment for God's sake. Shame on you people. Can't yau'll see he's welcomed in the jungle. He went down south :)
- Jeunelle Foster
Best suggestion from the article: " Give every application in the Android Market its own support site." - That would be awesome even if it was just a branded Google Group.
- James Williams
Thanks, Anne! The best solution to jetlag is to pretend it doesn't exist. As Robert Scoble woke me up with his pocket dial before 6 a.m. Paris time, that's the equivalent of before 9 p.m. yesterday PST. Now, it's catchup time.
- Louis Gray
And who needs sleep anyway, right? Still kidless?
- Anne Bouey
Yup. Sleep is a waste of time and unproductive. We pick up the kids tomorrow.
- Louis Gray
Someone needs to take pics of the kidlets when they first spot you and Kristine!
- Anne Bouey
I will forward your request to whomever is in charge. :)
- Louis Gray
I'm very excited. To get ready i've been reading all the Arthur Conan Doyle books! :)
- Rachel Lea Fox
Yeah. Not sure why I see him as a Churchill derivative character
- Mo Kargas
Because we've been brainwashed by Hollywood that Watson looks like a Churchill look-a-like...
- Jax
Rachel, based on the trailers I've seen, there won't be much Conan Doyle in this beyond the names 'Sherlock Holmes' and 'John Watson.'
- John Craft
Mark, he was fairly fit but had some issues with his leg in some of the first short stories. However after a year or two of the stories his leg issues disappeared from the stories all together and he ran after Holmes without issue. And Holmes is often described as "being prone to uncommon fits of energy" and doing miraculous things.
- Rachel Lea Fox
John, I would agree based on the previews. Though I do hope they will stick to the original personalities.
- Rachel Lea Fox
Perhaps he snuck into Holmes' cocaine to trim some of the weight off.
- Veronica
"I do hope they will stick to the original personalities." - It looks to me that Guy Ritchie has been as faithful to Conan Doyle, as Cubby Broccoli was to Ian Fleming.
- John Craft
Before Iron Man, only movies i think i watched with him in them is, Us Marshalls and Natural Born Killers
- Fee501st
Even if they don't stick to Doyle's plans, murder mystery + Robert Downey Jr = awesomeness. Fairly sure of it. :) But I can't say I'd imagined Watson looking REMOTELY like Jude Law, I'd have gone stockier.
- Amy
I don't think it's an issue of "Was Watson Jude Law hot?" but more "Can Jude Law make a believable Watson?". From what I've seen on the previews, I think he can. Of course, in the roles Law played when he was younger, he looked more like a mannequin than a hottie to me. He looks much better in this.
- Craig Roth
Ach, he's an ok actor, I'm sure he'll do a decent enough job. :)
- Amy
"People here are also worried about the future. They fret that Bangalore, and India more broadly, will remain a low-cost satellite office of the West for the foreseeable future — more Scranton, Pa., in the American television series “The Office,” than Silicon Valley. Even as the rest of the world has come to admire, envy and fear India’s outsourcing business and its technological prowess, many Indians are disappointed that the country has not quickly moved up to more ambitious and lucrative work from answering phones or writing software. Why, they worry, hasn’t India produced a Google or an Apple? Innovation is hard to measure, but academics who study it say India has the potential to create trend-setting products but is not yet doing so. Indians are granted about half as many American patents for inventions as people and firms in Israel and China. The country’s corporate and government spending on research and development significantly lags behind that of other nations. And venture capitalists finance far fewer companies here than they do elsewhere."
- LANjackal
from Bookmarklet
“To start a services company it really takes you just two or three days to get going,” said Mr. Krishnan, whose book, “From Jugaad to Systematic Innovation: The Challenge for India,” is to be published next year. “The moment you are looking at manufacturing, there are hundreds of inspectors and regulations.” - pain faced & reported by several of my friends and acquaintances.
- Kamath (नमः)
"So, Google has finally bitten the bullet and launched Real-time Search. While it won’t yet show up by default when you search, you can trigger it easily. Here’s how…"
- Martin Bryant
from Bookmarklet
Well M. -- the Anti-Clique it does imply your soul purpose in life is to become a production cog in a great machine. That's worth protesting don't you think?
- Todd Hoff
And what about, 'When you feel drowsy, a competitor may have drugged you.'
- Micah Wittman
The best part is that the Korean says "Sleepiness Prohibited".
- Darren
I actually meant that I was picturing American parents protesting that this was pitting students against each other. But yes, in the fight-the-man feeling, it does seem like a noble cause to protest about
- Itachi
yes , just shows that Teachers don't take crap from kids in Asian Countries !!.. and I might as well add their Governments too !!
- Peter Dawson
WOW, no pressure, right? Sobering message for young minds
- Susan Beebe
Given the national scores and drop out rates, I think American kids could use some pressure, something to remind them that they are in fact, competing in the global market, whether they like it or not.
- Ray Cromwell
I think I also need one of this to put on my desk
- Ozkan Altuner
i have a friend also named ken,does he a korean or japanese?
- urin
"Are you a power-user with 5 minutes to spare? Do you want a faster internet experience? Try out namebench. It hunts down the fastest DNS servers available for your computer to use. namebench runs a fair and thorough benchmark using your web browser history, tcpdump output, or standardized datasets in order to provide an individualized recommendation. namebench is completely free and does not modify your system in any way. This project began as a 20% project at Google."
- mjc
from Bookmarklet
This told me that Comcast is 150% faster than my Google DNS servers!
- Louis Gray
App kept hanging on me. Killed it 3 times and gave up.
- Jack (a.k.a. Jeber)
the zip extraction hung for me but the app started, but failed to do any other dns servers besides my current dns, but after that first run though the zip extraction finished and i was able to benchmark with 10 other dns servers
- Chris Heath
My results were that UltraDNS was the fastest, besting 8.8.8.8 by 80%
- Kurt Starnes
My results are the same as Louis' for Comcast
- Jesse Stay
Google DNS has been slower across the board. Even against other 3rd-party services like OpenDNS, Google DNS loses. Stick with your ISP's DNS.
- Jason Huebel
Google is beating OpenDNS for me here. Haven't tested up against my ISP since they are blocking certain swashbuckling sites on behalf of the danish government....
- Rasmus Lauridsen
Here's my benchmark using ns_bench: http://friendfeed.com/jhuebel... i would assume that the country you live in would affect your DNS tests significantly. I live in the US, so OpenDNS and Google have servers in my country to test against.
- Jason Huebel
I think the results can vary quite a bit from country to country.
- Matt Cutts
Yup If I remember correct OpenDNS have their Euro servers in London. Not sure where Google are hiding their euro servers.. Best bet is definitely testing where you get the best speed and use the fastest.. But you probably want to keep testing once in a while, cause if I know google right they will make theirs better quickly.
- Rasmus Lauridsen
the reason why you'd even need a tool like this is that each ISP and even each region in which that ISP is located, routes differently. Comcast's DNS is faster than google's when for example comcast's is sitting in the same building as the place your cable connects to. Funnily enough, I'm on comcast in fort lauderdale, and it suggest's AT&T's DNS in naples. Note that a lot of this is mitigated by having a router (eg. wifi) that caches DNS requests.
- mjc
Waseem Sadiq, CTO (left) and Khuram Hussain are showing me how you can send emails and messages to Twitter, Facebook, and others. It is in private beta now, will launch later this year. http://www.inbox2.com Does all sorts of useful stuff like forwarding, copying, etc. "It is really hard to build a good email client," says Sadiq. They nailed it, must try it.
- Robert Scoble
Very cool. I can imagine this being something to tie me over until Google Wave is released. I presume the transition to Google Wave from Inbox2 will be a ease?
- Vinko
How long does it take for them to send the invite?
- Kevin Whalen
from email
Robert, thx for the plug! Everybody that wants an invite just leave your email address on the website (www.inbox2.com), will take a few weeks before you get one tho, due to the infrastructure we're setting up to serve u all :-)
- Waseem Sadiq
'a few weeks'!! we'll have all forgotten about it by then! -- you've got our interest now (it's about 20 people, how much infrastructure would be required?)
- Paul
Hehe that is true, but if I let you guys in now I might end up spoiling the zen like email experience once its good enough. I'll tell you what, if you are willing to try out the product and tell us how we can improve it, or blog about it, Í will get you an invite (waseem at inbox2 dot com)
- Waseem Sadiq
Can't hold back any longer. I finally let loose and say what I *really* think about various social media sites. Yes, including Twitter and Friendfeed... :o http://www.adamlasnik.net/me...
Your feedback (on the content, style, etc.) is *very* welcome here or -- even cooler -- on the entry page itself (try out my Disqus!). This is my first time writing a long-form entry on my site rather than an actual blog (BLADAM), and I'm curious to see how it goes :).
- Adam Lasnik
"Assymetry of value/convenience: In a nutshell, Twitter reminds me of Old Voicemail. Pretty easy to leave messages, but frustrating to slog through 'em." Oh eMme Gee ... this is the best description I have ever read about what I am feeling when it came to checking my old voicemail. People who called me eventually came to learn that I would call them back and just ask them what they...
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- Miss Elle
Heh, we're on the same page here. And in fairness, I can't take credit for the slam against Old Voicemail. Very glad you're enjoying GV, though! It's one of my favorite Google products, not only because I find the transcriptions typically very helpful, but I also get the occasional massive giggle fit when I get transcriptions promising an "appointment for sex" (instead of [eye] contacts). Efficiency AND entertainment... how can you beat that?! :-)
- Adam Lasnik
I actually don't use the transcription feature. :: shock :: But I do like the fact that I can choose which voicemails to listen to, and I love that they are emailed to me. Almost 12 hours out of the business day, I am at work where (in order to keep kids safe) they have jammed all cell reception. GVoice lets my voicemail get through so I can instantly respond to deaths in the family...
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- Miss Elle
"And yeah, those quizzes. MAKE THEM ALL GET OFF OF MY LAWN OUT OF MY NEWSFEED! THEY ARE EVEN MORE ANNOYING THAN ALL CAP RANTS!" - Yes!! Where's the option to hide all of the stuff that comes in from apps?
- LogEx
LogEx, I'm sure there are multiple angsty FB groups filled with zillions of people who feel the same way we do ;-). And Miss Elle, I'm curious to know why you haven't used the transcription feature. If it's a privacy concern, did you know that GV is one of the few services out there that *doesn't* use people to assist with translations? (they're 100% machine-derived)
- Adam Lasnik
re: Foursquare & all other primarily geo-apps... inherently creepy, particularly if: (1) tracking is constant in the background; (2) they keep a history; (3) privacy controls aren't extremely granular; (4) the privacy policy isn't very tight and consumer-friendly (like allowing full deletion by user, requiring subpoena to release to law, etc.) ...(I could go on and on ;)
- LogEx
@Adam -- Not a privacy concern from Google at all. Without admitting to violating TOS, let's just say that my mother has access to my GVoice account and I don't want her reading some of the things my friends leave as voicemails. (Hypothetically, I may have hypothetically given her access to convince her of her need to get her own account. It is not working. But she still uses the web interface to place the occasional long distance call.)
- Miss Elle
LogEx, I agree with you to a moderate extent (particularly I am in full agreement with giving users strong info and choices in this context), but I get frustrated how folks continue to focus their concerns and sometimes (not in your case!) vitriol against services like this. I continue to wish that people would get at the root of the issue: bad laws, legal abuses (overreaching lawyers), etc.
- Adam Lasnik
Heh! Ah, now it's all clear, Miss Elle. Without intending to recommend any TOS violation myself, maybe it's time that, uh, your alter ego gets a new Google Voice account :D
- Adam Lasnik
Yes, notice and choice are good things. Defaults are key, and granularity can come over time. Google is pretty good about stuff like this... I just shared a note in Reader today about how Reader privacy out of the box was done right. BTW, liked your Google Profile - any chance Google could give owners some stats about views? I get that arbitrary html/js may not be great to allow at this point.
- LogEx
re: my Google Profile... thanks! I'd love stats and more flexibility with Google Profiles, too! We finally got stats with Picasa, so I can tell at least a bit about the popularity of my photos. I hope stats on GP will come, too :)
- Adam Lasnik
Another visual element that follows from the beginning of the film to the end of the film is the use of live-action elements, which was new for Pixar. Can you explain why and how that was incorporated? Ralph Eggleston: I don’t know exactly why that decision was made. The main issue for us was making sure our audience knew that it was human beings who were on this ship. Due to the physics of space and the Buy'N'Large Corporation having taken care of everything, humans have reverted into slovenly big babies. The easiest way for us to do that was to just show them as humans. If we had shown them as even slightly caricatured humans, would it have worked? I don’t know. We didn’t do it. But if they’d been even slightly caricatured, it might not have been as clear how serious the devolution of humans had become. It was all about contrast.
- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
from Bookmarklet
It is a very detailed discussion for people into the design thinking of animation
- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
Chrome OS will help kill Silverlight and other non-open tech, preventing msft and others from recapturing the web. (though I expect that it will support Flash by necessity)
I hope it doesn't. After all we need good media delivery platforms.
- Swaroop
Including GNASH - the open source alternative - would solve that problem
- Bogdan Costea
yeah, nobody really needs flash. kill it.
- Zio Bonino
Chrome OS might be a compelling case for SVG/<canvas> + <audio> tag replacements for flash. Dunno what SVG's perf is like on WebKit tho.
- Matt Mastracci
Microsoft will port it. It's all about codecs & DRM. Ogg Theora isn't all that great.
- Rodfather
@Swaroop eh eh, I've got flash disabled on all my systems :)
- Zio Bonino
@Benjamin I'd prefer HTML web apps over native apps anyday. But it'll take time for it to mature
- Swaroop
Rodfather, I don't think that will be an option for msft :). If Chrome is built the way I would do it, there is no installation per-se -- everything runs in the browser and the config in stored in the cloud (and cached locally). The computer is a pure appliance.
- Paul Buchheit
What about more standard codecs like h.264? That isn't open and is in hardware already.
- Rodfather
h.264 is established and must be in there, but it's not a platform like Silverlight is.
- Paul Buchheit
I know some of the guys behind silverlight. It is some great technology. Too bad it's from Microsoft and is closed.
- Joe Beda ()
from iPhone
A world with no Flash and Silverlight. I can't wait.
- Paul Grav
Yeah, it's too bad they didn't open-source it. This stuff with Mono is silly -- if you want to make a real standard you need to make the real implementation be open.
- Paul Buchheit
MS are about 10 years too late with Silverlight. And they'll most likely be dragged kicking and screaming into supporting HTML5.
- Paul Grav
Zio sez (hopefully humorously): "yeah, nobody really needs flash. kill it" -- have you ever watched a single YouTube video in your life? Like seventeen gazillion other people across the wired world. yeah, you're right, nobody needs Flash. ha!
- .LAG liked that
Remember Dave Clark in 1992, "We reject kings, presidents and voting. We believe in rough consensus and running code."
- Guy Vander Heyden
.LAG: most YouTube videos are playable without Flash now. My iPhone plays most of them and it doesn't have Flash. Certainly by the time the Google OS came out YouTube would be converted completely to non-Flash capability.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: The youtube flash application helps read the flv files on Youtube's servers and provides a UI (decoder too).
- Swaroop
Even Google admits they're not sure I'd bit for bit html5 video is less bandwitj consuming than flash. And flash isn't just media delivery, also interesting games and apps like tonepad, splicemusic.com's online sequencer, etc (I'm musically inclined, so most of my examples will be along that line) and please don't suggest we redo it all in java
- Ed F
from Nambu
Does this mean the next Silverlight release is codename Seppuku?
- Jay Cuthrell
Maybe we'll see commercials encoded in movies if everything is open.
- Rodfather
Flash is too established to kill off right now, so I'd be surprised if Chrome didn't include flash support. It will take many years to get rid of that thing. First they need to fix the standard browser to not be so broken (lack of video, multi-file upload, etc), then they need everyone to switch to the new html5 solutions.
- Paul Buchheit
Scoble ...that may be true, and YouTube plays on my Pre without Flash (yet)...but that doesn't mean that "nobody needs Flash." really? what would replace it?
- .LAG liked that
Is it just me or does Native Client (NaCl) remind you of the Microsoft Active X approach?
- Daniel Chow
But who prevents Google from taking over the net?
- Andreas
youtube videos play on iPhone/iPod Touch as they are higher res mp4 files NOT flv files. It was a big deal when Steve negotiated that deal with youtube.
- vijay
You have Moonlight to run Silverlight applications in Linux. Not perfect, but then an application made on Silverlight is "not perfect" by definition
- Marcos Marado
The point here is that Google has no motivation to include Silverlight on these machines, and installing software likely won't be an option (it's a web appliance), so it will be absent from a lot of netbooks, just as it is absent from iPhones. That cuts into market share, which is a bad thing for a platform that is trying to compete with more universal tech like Flash and HTML....
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- Paul Buchheit
@DanielChow: NaCl has very little overlap with ActiveX, apart from running native code. It runs in a provably safe way, and explicitly does *not* allow it to access arbitrary host APIs. But it can be quite useful when you need to run code that would be too slow in Javascript (even on v8): e.g., heavy encryption/decryption, possibly codecs, definitely game physics, and so forth.
- Joel Webber
There is a time and a place for Flash and Silverlight so I hope it will run it. There are simply some things you can do which aren't possible, or practical in html/css/javascript.
- Steve Temple
Paul: why wouldn't Chrome OS come with Moonlight? And if not, why wouldn't you be able to just install it? And third, why the hell would people want Moonlight for? I never installed it and not even once felt the need to!
- Marcos Marado
from fftogo
because of moonlight http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlig... the potential userbase of silverlight is greatly improved, agree that projects which don't consider compatibility are limiting their potential
- Mike Chelen
@mindboosternoori Ryanair site uses silverlight: http://www.ryanair.com/site... that's the only website I know that uses it - for this you would need moonlight :)
- Ihar Mahaniok
Flash is needed for the google os to be useful in education. Many education based websites are flash based.
- Willowdale
@Paul "Google is probably paying OEMs to ship with this OS, so instead of paying $x/machine to include windows XP, they will get paid $y/machine to include Chrome." - paying present tense, already? Isn't it enough for OEMs not to have to pay hefty licenses to Redmond, etc., while being able to ship with a free, stable OS+browser combo; they need to be paid to do that as well?
- ianf ⌘
I sure hope so. I think the wide array of JavaScript libraries have been killing Flash for years. Silverlight was never really a player. The only think keeping Flash afloat is video
- Scott Radcliff
I don't know what's under the hood of Silverlight (nobody knows), but Flash is basically a sprite engine controlled by Actionscript, which is basically an adapted version of Javascript anyway. It's nicely packaged though, and has an army of developers, so it won't go away that easily, at least not until there are Flash-to-Canvas/ HTML5 porting tools/ translators and the like.
- ianf ⌘
to follow that logic...photoshop is needed as well
- Chris Hofmann
somebody call me when http://playboyarchive.com is working in Chrome OS (it's currently implemented in Silverlight)
- Karim
If it gains any traction at all, MS will just make Silverlight version that will run on Google OS. Sure google could block it, but they haven't done so with the Chrome browser.
- Jeff Weber
Interesting. I doubt the Google OS will get that big anytime soon though.
- Scott Radcliff
from email
Silverlight doesn't have a chance now...I wonder what would Adobe Air do.
- Saad Kamal
not really, if google want to be open then they will need a plugin architecture for it and then MS could just port for it. I really don't see this troubling mainstream users any time soon.
- Darren Stuart
Though I agree with the view that MS monopoly may erode as alternative devices get adoption over PC/Notebook, and these devices will mostly run on open source OS, but it may take years to create a significant change in every day usage of normal users. In the end, OS choice is mostly done by manufacturers, and they would be happy to get paid by open source vendors for putting their OS on...
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- Kaan Bingol
People want media. Hulu, Netflix, Kindle, iTunes, etc. They need to address that or they are DOA.
- Hayes Haugen
Hayes, what makes you think it will lack media support?
- Paul Buchheit
I don't think it will lack licensed media support but what deals they are able to make will be crucial.
- Hayes Haugen
Hayes, i thought you were going to say that Netflix was using Silverlight. ;-)
- Karim
Yes, they are, what is their deal with MSFT? Can they do non Silverlight distribution?
- Hayes Haugen
i believe the Netflix non-Silverlight distribution is a format called "DVD" that works over the "Snail Mail" protocol. ;-) but clearly if Google is paying OEMs to install Chrome OS, they can pay Netflix to go back to Flash which Chrome OS will probably support "by necessity" ;-)
- Karim
How can Google make money from Chrome OS? Or does it want to make money from it except through advertisement? I still can not imagine that all software and service are free and sponsored by advertisements.
- Derek Wei
All Chrome OS questions are answered by today's Fake Steve Jobs ;)
- Hayes Haugen
Is there a need to make money? If more and more people eschew desktop offline applications in favor of online web based apps, it means more pageviews, more eyeballs, more advertising inventory, plus has the side effect of undermining a big competitor's cash cow.
- Ray Cromwell
That's the key, Google wants everything online. They figure the more people online, the stronger they become, and the more money they make. At least that what was said at the Chrome launch.
- Scott Radcliff
from email
I'm amused that the "backwards compatibility" argument against alternative operating systems has slowly turned into "does it support flash", and when you unpack that it really means "does it play YouTube". I suspect Google will make sure ChromeOS cna play YouTube and they don't need Flash to make sure of it.
- Nick Lothian
Is it possible that Microsoft will write Office for the Web using Volta instead of Silverlight? Could be a showcase announcement for their attack on GWT
- Ray Cromwell
I think Microsoft is going to focus less on the front-end of the web and more on the back-end, middle tier and database sides. Azure is a big deal that consumers aren't talking about because it's not flashy but will be pretty important to developers (and especially enterprise-level applications) when it's finally ready because everything becomes an interface to the cloud. Microsoft is...
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- Fa La La La Lindsay
Nosense, I want silverlight, flash, html and any other technology in my desktop & mobile phone. Silverlight? yes, there you can develop under Python, Ruby et al, instead of the outdated javascript.
- Sebastian Wain
It looks like with Native Client, you should be able to write your Chrome OS app in any language you feel like. So far, they have some examples in C/C++, but one of the things they ported is a Lua interpreter. If Adobe isn't going to invest heavily in fixing the show-stopping bugs on non-Windows versions of Flash, it's inevitably going to die, and there's really nothing either Google or Apple can do even if they wanted to support Flash better.
- Victor Ganata
...ActionScript3 is ECMASCript-compliant. I know nothing about standards bodies, and shii like that, but what if Adobe dropped ActionScript and said, "You can now use pure Javascript to build Flash applications..." It wouldn't be a big leap. I'm pretty sure that would shut-up all the Flash haters. And to the folks who say Flash is hanging around just because of video...well, video is...
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- .LAG liked that
Actionscript is just the glue for the more advanced what-iffy graphic functionality of Flash. They can not drop it for Javascript, because it contains additional graphic primitives that JS lacks. But it's not the JS-or-Actionscript that makes it a target for hate, it's other things. Nobody denies that it's pretty capable, but it is also badly written, eats up memory like no other, makes...
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- ianf ⌘
I honestly don't know how necessary Flash is. Apple seems to be doing fine without supporting it. But certainly Gnash and Swfdec should be implementable on Chrome OS. The fact is that without Adobe's full support on a given platform, Flash apps will always be second class citizens on alternate platforms, and so far, there's no indication that Adobe is interested in fully supporting any platform other than Windows.
- Victor Ganata
ianf ...you bring up great points about Flash's detriments, as does Victor, but until there's a better way to bring video to the Web, I can't see it disappearing. Adobe seems to keep improving the Flash VM, hopefully they'll address those CPU-hogging issues and make a more efficent runtime. Yeah, I hate hearing the fans kick-in when visiting a Flash-heavy site too. <sigh>
- .LAG liked that
that only covers video and audio... *sigh*
- Ed F
from IM
Ed, only??? thats one of the main reasons cited for the continued requirement of flash on popular sites like youtube
- Mike Chelen
I know, and it seems I'm the only one who mentions Flash's other uses... :-/
- Ed F
from IM
Ed, those other uses can be accomplished through pure Javascript, video was the last remaining stumbling block
- Mike Chelen
Still waiting on non-Flash recreations of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch... or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch... Well aware of how someone mentioned higher up how you can combine javascript and svg to get nifty flash-like effects. I want apps like that though ^ Only real alternatives I've seen are Java-based ones, and those runs even slower than Flash.
- Ed F
Pardon me, but the OP is a ridiculous conclusion. For that to be the case, Chrome OS would have to kill Windows, OS X, etc altogether. Paul, I understand your viewpoint as being an ex-Google person, but that's just NOT going to happen. Right now the video specification from HTML5 has been dropped because of an impasse, meaning that we may be transitioning from 1 closed-source boss - Flash - to another - H264. Good luck.
- LANjackal
But why do these type of apps have to be written in Flash at all? You can easily do the same thing in C, C++, ObjC, Python, Ruby, etc., with the Native Client API that they're building for Chrome. http://code.google.com/p...
- Victor Ganata
write them yourself then. until then, I'll stick with desktop apps or Flash equivalents
- Ed F
from IM
I'm just saying, it's not like Flash is the end-all/be-all. As Apple well demonstrates, some people can live quite well without it.
- Victor Ganata
Victor ...i think the answer to the 'why do these have to be written in Flash at all' question is because Flash is installed on such a significant portion of Web browsers. But I recall that Adobe Flex had a competitor, Laszlo/OpenLaszlo, which compiled apps to SWF or to Javascript. Who's to say that Adobe doesn't have the same capability of making SWF apps into JS ones? On one hand, it...
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- .LAG liked that
Ed, such apps are possible with Javascript and HTML5 multimedia features, the question will be how difficult developers find it, and whether the performance is fast enough
- Mike Chelen
LANjackal, there is a question of degree in that Flash + H264 uses proprietary software and codec, while HTML5 + H264 requires only the codec. while OGV is no longer part of the spec, it can certainly still be used to have completely open video formats, and recent comparisons have shown it performs well http://people.xiph.org/~maikme...
- Mike Chelen
Silverlight's 3 is looking pretty impressive today but tend to agree
- Charlie Anzman
still haven't updated yet. Busy with something on Firefox
- LANjackal
from IM
What everybody seems to be missing about Flash is that it works because there is one implementation which is mostly backwards-compatible and the same across platforms. It beat Java because, among other reasons, Java just didn't work the same across JVMs and platforms. The problem with HTML5 is that it will have a different implementation for every browser, and that means your app/game...
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- Gabe
Yeah the video spec for HTML5 is currently a disaster
- LANjackal
from IM
Paul, don't you prefer brutal competition SL vs. Flash vs. standards bring to the table by definition? Or are you more into http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - 2020 Google Union - type of ideology?
- Kari Honkanen
Kari, I don't understand your question. Competition is good, but with open-source we get that -- no need for flash or SL.
- Paul Buchheit
Paul, no, we don't get the same level of competition with open-source only. As long as there's an opportunity for big gains (like in this case to bridge the gap before html 5 era...to satisfy demand), there will be innovations driven by that. I believe we all benefit from a free market economy that includes commercial, closed source, innovations. I am more scared of the possible future...
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- Kari Honkanen
I agree that the future is neither open nor closed, but a mixture of the 2. Been preaching that for a while now, but then again there are the fanatics on either side who can't see anything other than a homogenous future
- LANjackal
from IM
I wouldn't worry too much amount multimedia. By exposing WebGL, (and hopefully OpenCL), you can offload a lot of compute intensive stuff onto the GPU via GPGPU techniques, and NativeClient is there to take up the rest of the slack, but the for the vast majority of iPhone-like games, I'm willing to bet V8 Javascript on a modern processor is more than enough. That leaves licensing issues...
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- Ray Cromwell
Paul, so are you saying that Google will block both Flash and Silverlight from ChromeOS? That's a new take on 'open.'
- Cliff Gerrish
MSFT next smart move: get Chrome OS (it's BSD licensed), inject IE9 and Silverlight into it and go benchmark against Chrome :)
- Claudio Cicali ♋
@caludio: They've already done that, somewhat. Silverlight 4 Beta supports Chrome. However I'm pretty sure it's probably technically impractical to run another browser atop Chrome OS anyway
- LANjackal
from IM
Something feels contradictory about a system touted to 'kill' competitors being 'open'. Sounds almost predatory to me.
- Karoli
If the concept of open source didn't allow for competitive business plans then quite a few companies that depend on it wouldn't exist. The "happy smiley" image most FOSS zealots promote isn't reflective of reality. There will always be competition, even among the free
- LANjackal
from IM
I'm not opposed to non-open software, but for OS, browser, etc I prefer that it be open. Cliff, Google isn't going to "block" anything, but they can certainly choose what to include, and my guess is that they won't include SL. As Claudio points out, MSFT can make their own version of ChromeOS that includes SL, which is why open source software is nice (it can't be crippled too much or else someone will fork it).
- Paul Buchheit
I have heard somewhere that Fash uses it's own port where Silverlight works over the HTTP port. That's why Netflix works so well. To that, Flash costs more on a sever side because providers can charge more for that port traffic. Could it come down to who is cheaper? (I am fully prepared to be wrong).
- Johnny Worthington
Johnny, they both use HTTP -- there's no difference there.
- Paul Buchheit
Is Chrome OS BSD-licensed? I thought it was using a Linux kernel.
- Victor Ganata
@Paul - well, Flash can do P2P stuff over non-HTTP posts, but that is very new (Flash 10 I think). The cost isn't affected anyway.
- Nick Lothian
My understanding is that netbooks would have to be absurdly popular for Chrome OS to make a dent in the popularity of Flash or SL.
- Gabe
not rly, the defeat of Flash & SL depends on the rise of HTML5, which will b supported by multiple browsers. Unfortunately spec disagreements r holding that up. That's another advantage of closed systems : fewer cooks often makes the broth get done faster lol
- LANjackal
from IM
How is HTML 5 going to defeat Flash and SL? I haven't used it, but I don't see anything in the spec that looks like it could compare.
- Gabe
@Gabe - what do you think HTML5 is missing? It does video, drawing, local storage, "threading" via WebWorkers. The biggest hole I'm aware of is the lack of access to webcams & microphones. What have I missed?
- Nick Lothian
HTML 5's not "missing" much in terms of its ambition. What it's missing is a consensus among its contributors. Flash and SL have gone through several iterations while HTML 5's been sitting there
- LANjackal
from IM
Nick: When you say HTML 5 has "drawing", are you refering to the Canvas element? I would not consider an immediate-mode procedural raster drawing library to be much of a competitor to retained-mode declarative vector libraries like SVG or Silverlight. Programming with the Canvas tag is sort of the equivalent of programming in assembly language for bitmaps.
- Gabe
@Gabe: I think you've got it upside-down. A Canvas-style API is the fundamental basis on which you can build a retained mode structure like SVG, et al. If a platform includes a retained-mode library as a convenience, so be it. You can build SVG on Canvas, but not the other way around (hacks like IECanvas notwithstanding -- they have horrible performance characteristics and are a nasty abstraction inversion).
- Joel Webber
So, if Moonlight (Mono) runs on linux -- Will google make sure it doesn't work on Chrome OS?
- Cliff Gerrish
No they won't, because it Silverlight already runs on Chrome as of Beta 4
- LANjackal
from IM
Joel: I don't think you said anything contrary to what I said. I just don't understand why any programmer would want to waste time writing an app using a low-level library when I could use a high-level library that implements everything for me.
- Gabe
@Gabe - I agree, and people are implementing those libraries now. See http://raphaeljs.com/ for example. Also, don't underestimate the convenience factor. I don't own any Flash development tools, but my text editor works pretty well for Canvas+JS based stuff.
- Nick Lothian
Nick: Didn't the author of raphael have some massive rant about how bad the Canvas element is? And I don't have any Flash dev tools either, but I use a text editor for most of my Silverlight development. It is incredibly convenient to be able to type something like <DataGrid ItemsSource="{Binding tabledata}"/> into a text editor and not have to create the data grid myself.
- Gabe
Why is Flash a "necessity" for an OS? I enjoy what flash can do, but it is like putting pimped out leather Oldsmobile seats in a Ferrari. It would definitely be nice, but certainly not a necessity.
- Dan Douglass
Early post goof up. To your original point, I agree. I like how Google is approaching the internet space with web apps that can be run with out a bloated browser.
- Dan Douglass
Dan Douglass: Flash is necessary because so many web sites rely on it. How many people would want to get a netbook that couldn't play FaceBook games or watch YouTube videos? Of course Google is in the unique position of being able to make YouTube work on ChromeOS without Flash, but they probably can't do anything about Hulu, Vimeo, or any of the other video sites out there that require Flash.
- Gabe
Movin' the money around keeps the system active. Didn't we see this coming?
- Christopher Harley
It may be on the horizon, but I think I'd rather pay the 30-50 dollars for an OS than let a huge corporation datamine my content to find appropriate keywords (if it turns out to be anything like Google's ad model) so they can feed me "relevant" ads.
- Joshua Schnell
Do you guys think they'll implement either system specifically, or try for both at the same time?
- Joshua Schnell
I don't think I'd mind an ads if a) they didn't get location data, b) it made my AT&T bill be at least $40 cheaper. I don't think I'd do it for less.
- Clark Baumgartner 蔵明 馬武刀