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Atheists
A room for atheists/agnostics and other irreligious to talk, share, comment and generally socialize
Global Times - Islamists in Somalia stone man to death for adultery - http://world.globaltimes.cn/africa...
"Hussein's girlfriend, who is now said to be pregnant, will also be executed by stoning after she gives birth."
- Tanath
from Bookmarklet
I mean, okay, adultery is douchey, but not death penalty douchey.
- Brian Chang
But what's worse is that his pregnant girlfriend is to be stoned to death as well (what was her "crime"?).
- Tanath
Yeah, I guess we don't really know if she was a knowing participant in his adultery. Not that it would warrant being stoned to death in any event.
- Brian Chang
Obviously the "adultery" in question is between this Hussein dude and his girlfriend. How can she not be a knowing participant?
- Haris bin Ali
Tanath to Tanath's feed, Funny Pics and Videos, Funny Funny, Fun Stuff, Skeptics Unite!, Atheists, AASFSHNR
Non Sequitur, October 29, 2009
— UCLICK GoComics.com - http://www.gocomics.com/nonsequ...
Bicentennial (Franc), Brian, Heather and 5 other people liked this
First Kiva Team to Reach $1 Million! - Kiva Blog - http://www.kiva.org/about...
Ken Morley, Eivind and Victor Kamutzki liked this
"The first Kiva Lending Team to reach $1,000,000 in loans is the Atheists, Agnostics, Skeptics, Freethinkers, Secular Humanists and the Non-Religious!"
- Tanath
from Bookmarklet
It's not long before we reach two now :)
- Eivind
Nearly double the Kiva Christians, nice.
- Tanath
French Branch of Scientology Is Convicted of Fraud - NYTimes.com - http://www.nytimes.com/glogin...
Neil de Haan and Eivind liked this
"The French branch of the Church of Scientology was convicted of fraud and fined nearly $900,000 on Tuesday by a Paris court. But the judges did not ban the church entirely, as the prosecution had demanded, saying that a change in the law prevented such an action for fraud. The church said it would appeal."
- Tanath
from Bookmarklet
I need a new doctor. My doc doesn't believe in evolution - the fundamental uniting principle of all biology. :(
M F, Dennis Jernberg, Alex Scoble and 10 other people liked this
Are you sure he's a doctor of medicine?
- Eivind
Yes, he's my family doctor. He's also... friendly towards alternative "medicine." Edit: Darn, forgot to add this to Bitchfest. :P
- Tanath
He believes in micro evolution, right? Isn't that how they play now?
- Eivind
I don't know. He didn't want to talk about it. He said he thinks evolution is "debatable."
- Tanath
He needs to be introduced to this woman: http://www.skepdoc.info/
- Christopher A Carr
You definitely need a new doctor.
- Christopher A Carr
That'd be great. Unfortunately not going to happen. Fortunately though, I've found some good doctors who are available in my area. :)
- Tanath
strange folks still debate it
- ffcode
A part of me wants the AMA (or equiv) to step in and force him to declare this, or somehow otherwise affect his ability to practice.
- Edward Zwart
I'm actually in Canada, but yeah that'd be nice.
- Tanath
Ah, I think I knew that at some point... where abouts again?
- Edward Zwart
Ontario. Within an hour of Toronto.
- Tanath
I believe in evolution, but I think it is debatable, at least in principle: it is still a theory, not a proof. That does not mean that the alternative is creation, necessarily - more that the theory is neither perfect, nor complete.
- mjc
Yeah, I think a lot of the details of macroevolution are still very much debatable. The main problem is that it's pretty hard to craft reproducible experiments.
- Victor Ganata
take a look at the 20,000 generation e. coli study that was published recently
- mjc
Evolution is debatable and a theory in the same way gravity is both those things. Sure, we're almost for sure going to learn further details, but it's playing with words to suggest that "evolution/gravity is debatable" or that either is "just" a theory.
- Edward Zwart
mjc, it's pretty much given that evolution is a fact. The theory concerns the mechanisms by which it operates. And I think he said it's "debatable" simply to give the safest answer. You are right though, everything is in principle debatable. :P
- Tanath
mjc, but that study is probably more descriptive of microevolution. Don't get me wrong. Macroevolution seems to be the only scientific theory that can explain the origin of species. But I think it's a mistake to think that macroevolution has as much evidence behind it as the theory of gravity, which is quite trivial to test experimentally.
- Victor Ganata
It's probably pretty disturbing, but you could probably practice modern medicine quite well without accepting macroevolution at all. You'd have to accept microevolution though. I can't see any other way to explain antibiotic resistance or cancer.
- Victor Ganata
An MD Doctor debating evolution makes me wonder what his opinion of the scientifc theory regarding actial medical procedures. You know formal theory or not, evolution is pretty much settled as fact in the scientific community as are a number of items that are maybe important to you like vaccine safety etc etc A doctor unsure about basic science is messed up run!
- WarLord
Victor: There is no fundamental difference between the two. That one leads to the other is fantastically consistent with empirical data.
- Christopher A Carr
Victor, macroevolution follows from microevolution.
- Tanath
"Macroevolution" is a fact.
- Christopher A Carr
In order to dispute that, you'd have to come up with some mechanism for preventing microevolution leading to macroevolution, and then have a hell of a lot of explaining to do. :P
- Tanath
You can use "God" to explain a lot, Tanath.
- Alex Scoble
Alex: What? ;P
- Tanath
God made Tanath say that.
- Alex Scoble
God is my brain?
- Tanath
Hehe
- Alex Scoble
God of the gaps really doesn't explain anything though.
- Tanath
It does if you believe in it.
- Alex Scoble
Biology is just applied chemistry. You need a chemist.
- ha3rvey (doink doink)
from fftogo
Not really. Thinking it does doesn't make it so...
- Tanath
Plenty of people would disagree with you, Tanath, hehe.
- Alex Scoble
I'm used to that. :) A valid explanation needs to be consistent and coherent, and fit the evidence.
- Tanath
That would scare me
- Moved to Facebook
from fftogo
Oh, you want a "valid" explanation? My bad, hehe.
- Alex Scoble
XD
- Tanath
just want to point out that a theory is something that has pretty solid backing in science.. for something that is contestable and not yet supported by reproducable data is a "hypothesis". But then, everything in science can be contested if you want to... you just need to provide the data, it's what I love about science.
- alphaxion
Dr. Hall, the woman to whom I linked earlier, explained in a workshop I attended that you can't assume MDs have much experience with scientific thought or process.
- Christopher A Carr
I find Wiktionary to be an excellent dictionary, and it does a good job of defining "theory" as well: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki...
- Tanath
Chris, that is unfortunately true. I found a site though where users rate doctors ( http://www.ratemds.com/ ), so I intend to try for the best rated docs in my area.
- Tanath
I want to lobby ratemds.com to include a "believes in evolution" flag. :)
- Edward Zwart
Yes, I realize that macroevolution is the plausible consequence of microevolution, but that doesn't mean that there aren't people who will the deny the former but accept the latter. If you look closely at it, though, only the latter really has immediate clinical consequences.
- Victor Ganata
I'm just trying to make a distinction about quality of evidence: not all evidence is created equal. To me, the strongest proofs are those that are readily reproducible. In some scientific endeavors, this is not easy to come by.
- Victor Ganata
Change in allele frequency is change in allele frequency.
- Christopher A Carr
Yeah, but there's a big difference between whether that allele causes a change in protein structure, which is readily observable, and whether that allele creates an entirely new species of multicellular organism, which I don't think we've managed to reproduce yet.
- Victor Ganata
I'm just playing devil's advocate here. Like I said, there isn't really any other scientific theory that can explain the origin of species.
- Victor Ganata
Evidence consists of facts that justify a statement. Either the facts justify a statement or they don't.
- Tanath
Well, that isn't how physicians are trained to deal with evidence. Some types of evidence are considered better than others. http://www.aafp.org/afp...
- Victor Ganata
Well, physicians generally aren't scientists. That image seems to be using 'evidence' in a colloquial sense. My statement is technically accurate.
- Tanath
Wow, this conversation actually ended up in macro- vs. micro-evolution? I'm sorry if I steered the conversation in that direction with my sarcastic comment early on. There's just evolution btw.
- Eivind
Yes, but what else can we debate then (especially if we've given up counting dancing angels on pin heads)?
- Edward Zwart
Theory of Gravity vs. Theory of Intelligent Falling?
- Eivind
Tanath, that's how physicians and physician-scientists are taught to analyze clinical studies. Certainly, the data they're dealing with is usually not as concrete as what you might find in molecular biology or physics. Eivind, yeah, I realize that biologists don't consider macroevolution and microevolution as separate topics. I know it's the same process of changing allelic frequency,...
more...
- Victor Ganata
Leave it to @RickWarren to turn Twitter into another pulpit from which to preach. Try listening to others for once, Rick. Engage in conversation.
jcunwired liked this
Sense About Science | Simon Singh granted leave to appeal - http://www.senseaboutscience.org.uk/index...
Edward Zwart and Eivind liked this
"This morning at the Royal Courts of Justice Simon Singh was granted leave to appeal the preliminary ruling on meaning in his libel case with the BCA."
- Tanath
from Bookmarklet
God is not the Creator, claims academic - Telegraph - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news...
"Professor Ellen van Wolde, a respected Old Testament scholar and author, claims the first sentence of Genesis "in the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth" is not a true translation of the Hebrew."
- Tanath
from Bookmarklet
It's telling that every religious fanatic I've ever met, even myself when I was one, lacks a sense of humor. It's as though fundamentalist fanaticism destroys a person's ability to appreciate humor.
American Vice: Mapping the 7 Deadly Sins - http://www.wired.com/culture...
Jannifer @wordsforliving liked this
maps of sin created by plotting per-capita stats on things like theft (envy) and STDs (lust).
- Jack (a.k.a. Jeber)
from Bookmarklet
'US cartoonist Crumb zaps the Bible' by Claire Rosemberg - AFP - RichardDawkins.net - http://richarddawkins.net/article...
CBC News - Nova Scotia - N.S. bishop faces child porn charges - http://www.cbc.ca/canada...
What a total shocker?! :(
- Simon Tracey
from Bookmarklet
reasonWeekly - http://reasonweekly.com/
News and stories of interest for free thinkers and skeptics. Sadly, no RSS.
- Jack (a.k.a. Jeber)
from Bookmarklet
Atheism: Bringing the Sexy Back | Cosmic Variance | Discover Magazine - http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicv...
"It would be amusing to just have a contest asking people to guess what the vertical axis on this chart is supposed to represent."
- Tanath
from Bookmarklet
"The answer is, 'reply rate to first-contact messages on an online dating site, as a function of words appearing in the message.'"
- Tanath
Gay People Can Quote The Bible Too | Slog | The Stranger, Seattle's Only Newspaper - http://slog.thestranger.com/slog...
In case the photo doesn't come through clearly, the sign says: "A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed. (Deuteronomy 22:13-21)
- Chris Munro
from Bookmarklet
20 coolest atheist T-shirts for sale on the web - Telegraph - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/fashion...
Eivind and Jack (a.k.a. Jeber) liked this
God's Checklist 2.0 (Audio Fixed!) - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Mark, Eivind and Edward Zwart liked this
This is a quite good video. All of his points are perfectly valid and delivered pretty well. He also has a very good speaking voice which doesn't hurt the overall presentation either (unlike so many other youtube vids)
- Bill Rawlinson
from Bookmarklet
I'm with Bill, presentation is just as important as having a sound logical argument if we actually want to get the message across. This is a good example of how to do it.
- Mark
Putting your best Brad Pitt on doesn't hurt either, especially for the man love. ;)
- Edward Zwart
I think I'd buy that. lol :)
- Heather
I'm pretty sure one of the commenters said, "Stop talking and take off your clothes!" :p
- Mark
"one of the commenters" ... riiiiight :P
- Edward Zwart
LOL!
- Mark
Edward Zwart to Edward's feed, AASFSHNR, Atheists, Skeptics Unite!, Atheist & Agnostic, Atheist Hit Squad
Thought I'd set up a group for The Reason Project. http://friendfeed.com/the-rea... If you have a feed to suggest adding, let me know. @Reason_Project
Eivind, Neil de Haan and Janice liked this
Fwd: Who’s Lying? - http://bits.rawlinson.us/post... (via http://friendfeed.com/finalcu...)
Edward Zwart, Neil de Haan and Eivind liked this
ding ding ding we have a winner?
- Bill Rawlinson
YouTube - Man of God - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Eivind, Edward Zwart, Flynn (Michael A. Volz) and 2 other people liked this
Pastor Cody should've maybe tried to actually answer the question.
- Bill Rawlinson
from Bookmarklet
Pastor Cody can't be for real??
- David (slumrig)
You really should subscribe to somegraybloke on YouTube. These clips are all funny as hell
- Bill Rawlinson
from iPhone
Oh this is hilarious! "That's all they had to do...BUT NO!! They HAD to eat the fruit!" hahaaa
- Edward Zwart
You'll probably also enjoy his clip titled "Choosing My Religion 2" (I think that's the name of it). Great stuff
- Bill Rawlinson
yeah, i've seen a few others as well, it's great deadpan :)
- Edward Zwart
LMAO. Hadn't seen "Choosing My Religion 2", Bill. Loved the bit about the trinity. "...and finally you've got the holy spirit who's very mysterious and ... looks like a pigeon."
- Eivind
yeah I like quoting that part of the video.. "One God? yes and no..."
- Bill Rawlinson
Faith-Healing couple acquitted | The Good Atheist - http://www.thegoodatheist.net/2009...
Helen Sventitsky, Jacob and Alex Scrivener liked this
"Today, a jury has now found the couple not-guilty of manslaughter, although they did find them guilty of the lesser charge of criminal mistreatment, which carries a rather anemic maximum sentence of a year."
- Tanath
from Bookmarklet
"The real reason they got off is because the jury was afraid that convicting the couple would intrude on people’s ability to practice their religion as they see fit."
- Tanath
"4 months after little Ava died, her 16 year old uncle also croaked in their custody from an untreated urinary tract blockage. Clearly, these idiots need to be put behind bars before someone else fucking dies."
- Tanath
This is unreal. Stuff like this pisses me off. >_<
- Tanath
I really don't understand the logic of being more afraid to punish killers then being afraid of killers.
- Heather
Apparently it was more fear of restricting the right to practice religion as one wills. Personally, I think the jury needs to have some sense knocked into them.
- Tanath
The death of the 16 yr old was even worse, since it was the whole church gathered around his bed to watch him die, in what was an easily preventable death, and nobody called for an ambulance till they made sure he was good & dead.
- April Russo (app103)
how many people do they need to kill before they're locked up ad stopped?
- Simon Tracey
from BuddyFeed
UGH this kind of stuff disgusts me. Letting people die needlessly is not "freedom of religion". Idiots.
- Kamilah Gill
Don't we still have some responsibility in this world to protect people who can't protect themselves. Even if it means infringing on "religious" rights. And I put religious in quotes because I honestly don't understand these nut-job religions that won't allow their members modern medical care and other things that make our lives safer and better. Like birth control. Argh!
- Jill is sugar free
#howgoodisGod how good is God? - POLLpigeon.com - http://pollpigeon.com/howgood...
#howgoodisGod is a top trending topic on Twitter right now. "I don't believe in God" is in 2nd place.
- Tanath
from Bookmarklet
Fwd: Coming out atheist - http://northwestern.news21.com/2009... (via http://friendfeed.com/aasfshn...)
Fossil Huntress liked this
I do not see the religion of "Jesus took my Rat's Ass, so I can't give one to my fellow man"!
- ‘-.-’ Tutivillus Grift
http://www.youtube.com/watch... - the whole series of videos is pretty funny in a very dry way.
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Scott Waybright, Mark, achean and 3 other people liked this
My, my, my, Internet is down.
- Andrew Trinh
yeah, I just discovered these videos last week. They are too funny. His 'internet being down' is a pretty good one as well.
- Bill Rawlinson
Apologetics Aerobics - http://www.atheist-community.org/atheist...
Edward Zwart, Janice, Victor Kamutzki and Eivind liked this
OMG! Atheists Exist! : Dispatches from the Culture Wars - http://scienceblogs.com/dispatc...
ProsePetals (aka Denise), Ken Morley, Amy℠ and 47 other people liked this
"...an atheist group takes out an ad on city buses and the city takes the ad down and claims it's offensive. [...] The only thing the ad does is say that atheists exist."
- Tanath
from Bookmarklet
According to the comments the city has already backpedaled but it should never have happened in the first place.
- Tanath
why should it not have happened??
- Rob Sellen :o)
Definitely should never have been taken down
- Lindsey is Fierce!
Why? I can't understand how it's ok to have signs about Christians or whatever... (religious signs) and not for the other side of the coin. Just doesn't make sense. :o/
- Rob Sellen :o)
Rob: That's the point. We're saying it shouldn't have been taken down. There's no good reason. Calling it offensive is an excuse - and if it is offensive, that's their problem (and a serious one if you find simple _facts_ to be offensive). And if you want to start outlawing facts then that's a whole other can of worms... Beyond the facts it's a simple inoffensive message to atheists.
- Tanath
ah I see... OK.. we have seen a similar thing here in the UK, they were on the side of a bus. They were stopped too.. that is wrong to me.
- Rob Sellen :o)
Everyone should have the right to openly express there opinion in a 'free' society but there do need to be agreed standards or we no longer remain civilised.
- Kevin J Hatton
Which is the best place for freethinkers and rational individuals? I am returning to the Land of Opportunity. http://bit.ly/MeltingPot
- Martin Lindeskog
Kevin... civilised? what standards are you talking about? this is just hypocrisy.
- Rob Sellen :o)
+1 Rob
- Edward Zwart
Hey everyone, come and look over here, I've found him! After years of searching I've finally happened upon the last reasonable Christian. His name's Gabe. ;-)
- Slippy "Threadsbane" Lane
I am, of course, just kidding - I'm sure there are plenty of reasonable Christians out there really.
- Slippy "Threadsbane" Lane
There are very reasonable & generally rational Christians... just not when it comes to things like faith.
- Tanath
I have my beliefs. You have yours. I don't try to ram mine down your throat, and I'll thank you for not trying to do that with yours. If you feel a need to go to church four times every Sunday, and a few times during the week too, that's fine, but I don't care, or want to know every time you do.
- Ian May
Ian: There is merit to "live and let live," but on the other hand beliefs matter. Actions are informed by beliefs, and people try to influence public policy according to their beliefs - so debate is important.
- Tanath
Ian, neither a post on a public forum nor an ad on a bus counts as ramming beliefs down someone's throat...
- Mark
I say who gives a rip. Not me. Believe what you want to believe or don't at all. Why should anyone care.
- Danny Minick
I find this thread deeply offensive
- John Hardy
There certainly does need to be equal time on this subject. If the free speech of atheists bothers the religious, why don't the religious have the reaction that, perhaps, their public displays of love for their God might be offensive to the atheists? I personally don't care if someone believes in God or not - I'd just like the entire discussion removed from the public square. (And I'll bet, even having said this, you can't determine whether I am religious or not myself.)
- Ciaoenrico
I choose to believe you're kidding Mr. John Hardy :) (You brought a smile to my face in either case.)
- Eivind
The British comedian Dave Allen said it best: "Go, and may your god go with you." Live your life, keep your side of the street clean, and if I like what I see I will ask you about your faith/philosophy. Attraction, not promotion. Don't trivialize your god/spirit/higher power/whatever by turning him/her/it into a commodity.
- Daniel Fath
Tanath, I've found that many people, even when actual facts are put right in front of them, tend to still believe in what they want to. I'm thinking more of political beliefs rather than religious ones here. What I'm really meaning by my previous statement is that I don't appreciate you (the general you) trying to force me to do what you want to do, when I don't want to. Mark, I wasn't particularly meaning the forum post or the ad, although, the latter could certainly be rather 'in your face' I guess.
- Ian May
Apparently, the offended in this Iowa town haven't heard that there's no such thing as bad publicity. C'mon, believers. You have a bus sign publicizing your eternal purpose, and you get it pulled down? How about reaching out to the atheist group as "free-thinking" believers? Even Paul spoke to locals on their own terms. He didn't demand their pagan signage removed, he quoted their signage in his sermon! (Acts 17:23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage...)
- Joel Zehring
Yeah, that's what America needs, another Paul. :/
- Edward Zwart
Censoring atheism is religious prosecution since atheism is itself a religion. People have also forgotten that Jefferson, Franklin and co. were Masons and theists, not exactly fundamentalists. The country was founded by men who were largely atheists and freethinkers. The rabid style of fundamentalism first appeared as a product of the immediate post Civil War years. Jacksonian democracy...
more...
- Carl Gruber
@ Carl, how is atheism a religion?
- Janice
The country wasn't "founded"..it was stolen... ;o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
Rob, sadly, you could say that about a lot of countries in one way or another.
- mikepk
@Ian But isn't all of politics exactly that, us trying to convince (reason with) each other about our beliefs. It's just that when ideology or religion gets in the way that it sounds like forcing. Strong beliefs loosely held still need to be hashed out. The trouble for some points of view is that they don't stand up well to reason. And then statements like the one's in this ad can be perceived as threatening or in your face, when in fact they couldn't be more innocuous.
- Edward Zwart
Yeah you could do... so people shouldn't say they were "founded".. cos that's a lie... ;o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
Rob: reminded me of this http://friendfeed.com/mikepk...
- mikepk
ah... I can't see what he says. :o(
- Rob Sellen :o)
Carl: atheism is a religion like bald is a hair colour.
- Tanath
Danny Minnick: I just said in my last comment before yours why people should care. To repeat: "There is merit to 'live and let live,' but on the other hand beliefs matter. Actions are informed by beliefs, and people try to influence public policy according to their beliefs - so debate is important."
- Tanath
Tanath... so are you saying I am WRONG to NOT be religious?
- Rob Sellen :o)
Rob: What? o.O Did I miss something, LOL? I wouldn't be saying that, I'm an atheist myself.
- Tanath
ok... lol. :o) god told me to ask... ;o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
Is that so? Can you ask him something useful, like how to resolve the conflict between quantum theory & relativity for me? :P
- Tanath
he just went "tut" :o) so.. no idea...
- Rob Sellen :o)
Hm, well I tried. :P
- Tanath
LOLTheist: Blasphemy is Teh Funneh » Blog Archive » Deicide never tasted so good - http://loltheist.com/2009...
Dickbuttkick, Morton Fox, Haggis (Sean Loyless) and 3 other people liked this
boiled in Armenian well water
- Edward Zwart
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