Smart move (maybe) - if Google is paying Twitter to get their content, why shouldn't Google be paying others as well? News Corp is a big entity - is it a loss for Google to lose all that content or a loss for News Corp?
- Jesse Stay
from Bookmarklet
Good, it would save me the trouble of having to look to see if something comes from Murdoch's entities. I doubt this will actually happen, though.
- Rob H.
Sorry but most people won't even realize that News Corp content is missing. People will search and they'll find other sites. Sorry, the unibrow of the web wins.
- AJ Kohn
So if I link to a News Corp article via Twitter... will that tweet not be searchable?
- Johnny
from iPhone
Johnny, they can block Google spider from news corp sites but twitter will still be indexed as usual.
- Amit Morson
Would be a good move if News Corp carried ALL the news (sorry for allcaps). But there are plenty of others wanting for Google love.
- Mike Reynolds
Calacanis suggested he do this???? It figures....
- Roberto Bonini
He was saying the top ten news oranizations should get together and make an offer to Bing... but that Rupert was likely the only one with the balls to do it; and that Google set a precedent by paying Twitter to index their content. :o)
- Ken Morley
It's curious that he would say search engine referral visitors aren't desired by advertisers.
- Rob Sterling
One word, "Antitrust." Or is that two words? The bulk Twitter feed apparently was not available to the public or it would have already been searched by Google. If content is available to the public now for free, I don't know how you are going to exclude some member of the public (Google) from accessing that content without creating a legal problem.
- Jimmy Walker
I guess new media won't kill old media after all. Old media will simply commit suicide.
- Victor Ganata
And Jason just sent around an email newsletter explaining. I'd post it but its Copyrighted.
- Roberto Bonini
Why is he "talking about it"? Couldn't a quick change to the robots.txt file (which Google and legitimate search robots obey) exclude Google?
- Brian Sullivan
For sure they want to be' payd as Twitter, the move to exit from the index is a suicide about advertising, by now it guarantee 100000 imp x day (It's in the answer of google to Murdock).
- CantorJF
from iPhone
I am going to try showing up early today and try for a seat up front (again). Wired Ethernet at a conference of this size is quite alluring.
- Jay Cuthrell
heh. only one other person in line at the doors... much lighter in the early bird category today.
- Jay Cuthrell
from BuddyFeed
ah yes, the tell tale sign of not sleeping properly... deja vu
- Jay Cuthrell
Let me just say.... the bandwidth is still phenomenal... I've been checking and it's averaging 80Mbps/40Mbps today. Wiline is the shizzle. This was yesterday on a spot check http://friendfeed.com/qthrul...
- Jay Cuthrell
Good for rrripple. Time is the best organization for media that documents your doings. Glubble switched from albums to timelines earlier this year. And of course my site is time-centric.
- Bruce Lewis
KRISPY KREME IN THE HOUSSSSSSE!!!!!!!!!!!! NC REPRESENT!!!!
- Jay Cuthrell
Jason has arranged for Krispy Kreme donuts and coffee to be available to ALL attendees. Nice!
- Jay Cuthrell
Jason of the Argonauts fame.... golden fleece and what not
- Jay Cuthrell
Two after parties tonight: after party then the after after party.... at 5A5
- Jay Cuthrell
Conference is going to start at some point... the announcements are going out now.
- Jay Cuthrell
Demo Pit Picks will be two companies again today -- nice format change considering it was a one winner takes all prior to the change yesterday.
- Jay Cuthrell
I'm waiting for the this is not Basecamp moment
- Jay Cuthrell
Ah.... very nice approach vs. having to download -- it's Air so everything is inline.
- Jay Cuthrell
Quorum building and teaming with checkoff on items
- Jay Cuthrell
I'd love to see what the system resources are for the Air app
- Jay Cuthrell
Okay, that's slick. Admittedly, I'm not a designer. I'll defer to the judges on this one entirely.
- Jay Cuthrell
So, this is a labor of love/hate in this case.
- Jay Cuthrell
Cool, tuned in from Amsterdam
- Jacob
from Android
The first pitch didn't include a statement to their own business model -- and have opted to take it in the Q&A portion. They didn't use all their time either -- ended 1 minute early.
- Jay Cuthrell
Artifacts are stored in S3. Smart... but wondering if this is LAN friendly i.e. localized cache or volume stub assignments to mitigate the party upload/download.
- Jay Cuthrell
The creative market is being questioned.... interesting
- Jay Cuthrell
(sidebar: one of the comments about Demo Pit was how companies will say they are for everything and anyone vs. -- yet get the same type critique when they say they have a niche)
- Jay Cuthrell
The word "island" has been thrown down.
- Jay Cuthrell
Okay, maybe I can't even defer to judges on this one. I'm wondering if this would be different if there was a creative on the judge panel -- or if that is even realistic. :)
- Jay Cuthrell
The coat the guy driving the demo made me think lab coat. Lab coat as in laboratory. Not sure if need new glasses or wearing a white jacket is hip.
- Jay Cuthrell
compare/corrolate of data --- quick comparison of metrics -- not sparklines
- Jay Cuthrell
Wifi on the stage... I think a faraday cage for the iphone stage is a good idea for next time... few demos have been stable on that network for some reason
- Jay Cuthrell
Nice touch... the Beatles RockBand ad showing
- Jay Cuthrell
filter on Facebook is worth checking out the app --- it's very light mode like
- Jay Cuthrell
ahhh... the drag/drop and growl works for their demo... mine crashed :)
- Jay Cuthrell
the auto shorten with bit.ly is clever
- Jay Cuthrell
and mapquest link was full length for AIM
- Jay Cuthrell
20M desktop and mobile users on AIM
- Jay Cuthrell
that means 20M potential Twitter and Facebook clients
- Jay Cuthrell
ah, the mental illness punchline... better delivered this time and there was laughter
- Jay Cuthrell
difference this time -- serious topic handling vs. a reference to exploitation (direct) of those with a mental state lending to a mundane or repetitive task
- Jay Cuthrell
this movie has a subliminal encoding that taps the deeper core of the occipital lobe forcing you to close your eyes and breathe more slowly... drifting... deeper.... deeper...
- Jay Cuthrell
millions and millions and millions of users
- Jay Cuthrell
youngest presenter today if not ever at TC50
- Jay Cuthrell
Cool! Raleigh is on the places page.
- Jay Cuthrell
This is a pretty compelling demo so far but I'm deferring to the judges to weigh in on what this is or isn't in terms of other analytics that tap into streams for brand tracking.
- Jay Cuthrell
Pete Cashmore is alpha dog of the Insttant screen... pervasive... showing up everywhere on it
- Jay Cuthrell
this might indicate there is no true "rise" per se
- Jay Cuthrell
ahh.... they said they "remove the noise" --- smart addition to the pitch
- Jay Cuthrell
Scoble likes it. That kid is too young for Scotch.
- Jay Cuthrell
challenge from Scoble -- engagement scores vs. followers
- Jay Cuthrell
measurement and fuzzy vs cotton vs opening additional questions
- Jay Cuthrell
important point -- sarcasm on Twitter is hard to detect
- Jay Cuthrell
private label archive.org approach with controls and searching inside the history
- Jay Cuthrell
challenges that judges will bring up most likely.... dynamics, personalization, and other unqiue one to one notions and interstitials of third parties
- Jay Cuthrell
oh... and some guy named Chamillionaire -- huge in country and western I'm told
- Jay Cuthrell
I remember hearing something to the effect of Chamillionaire being the first artist to truly grasp the impact of licensing ringtones
- Jay Cuthrell
the demo on stage is showing a lot of UI squish... makes me wonder what kind of monitors are being used vs the lack of HD or wide format projectors for venues -- there is probably a market in there somewhere for the vendors of projection to make this happen by 2010
- Jay Cuthrell
the real estate is palpable now when considering the screen size of the actual, well, screens...
- Jay Cuthrell
judge body language update... I think coffee is in order... long day effect
- Jay Cuthrell
1M to 11M of Webmail/Facebook/Twitter overlap -- neat stat
- Jay Cuthrell
domain.com vs. twitter.com/domain discussion begins
- Jay Cuthrell
we are in critique of pitch mode... can't get to the product just yet
- Jay Cuthrell
what is the point of doing this if it isn't drawing in on the terms a company is comfortable with --- some might take exception with this depending on your view of a customer, company and that role
- Jay Cuthrell
showing signs that this makes companies uncomfortable
- Jay Cuthrell
another pearl "gotta be Simon Cowell too" -- Chamillionaire
- Jay Cuthrell
"...an atheist group takes out an ad on city buses and the city takes the ad down and claims it's offensive. [...] The only thing the ad does is say that atheists exist."
- Tanath
from Bookmarklet
Why? I can't understand how it's ok to have signs about Christians or whatever... (religious signs) and not for the other side of the coin. Just doesn't make sense. :o/
- Rob Sellen :o)
Rob: That's the point. We're saying it shouldn't have been taken down. There's no good reason. Calling it offensive is an excuse - and if it is offensive, that's their problem (and a serious one if you find simple _facts_ to be offensive). And if you want to start outlawing facts then that's a whole other can of worms... Beyond the facts it's a simple inoffensive message to atheists.
- Tanath
ah I see... OK.. we have seen a similar thing here in the UK, they were on the side of a bus. They were stopped too.. that is wrong to me.
- Rob Sellen :o)
Everyone should have the right to openly express there opinion in a 'free' society but there do need to be agreed standards or we no longer remain civilised.
- Kevin J Hatton
There are very reasonable & generally rational Christians... just not when it comes to things like faith.
- Tanath
I have my beliefs. You have yours. I don't try to ram mine down your throat, and I'll thank you for not trying to do that with yours. If you feel a need to go to church four times every Sunday, and a few times during the week too, that's fine, but I don't care, or want to know every time you do.
- Ian May
Ian: There is merit to "live and let live," but on the other hand beliefs matter. Actions are informed by beliefs, and people try to influence public policy according to their beliefs - so debate is important.
- Tanath
Ian, neither a post on a public forum nor an ad on a bus counts as ramming beliefs down someone's throat...
- Mark
There certainly does need to be equal time on this subject. If the free speech of atheists bothers the religious, why don't the religious have the reaction that, perhaps, their public displays of love for their God might be offensive to the atheists? I personally don't care if someone believes in God or not - I'd just like the entire discussion removed from the public square. (And I'll bet, even having said this, you can't determine whether I am religious or not myself.)
- Ciaoenrico
I choose to believe you're kidding Mr. John Hardy :) (You brought a smile to my face in either case.)
- Eivind
The British comedian Dave Allen said it best: "Go, and may your god go with you." Live your life, keep your side of the street clean, and if I like what I see I will ask you about your faith/philosophy. Attraction, not promotion. Don't trivialize your god/spirit/higher power/whatever by turning him/her/it into a commodity.
- Daniel Fath
Tanath, I've found that many people, even when actual facts are put right in front of them, tend to still believe in what they want to. I'm thinking more of political beliefs rather than religious ones here. What I'm really meaning by my previous statement is that I don't appreciate you (the general you) trying to force me to do what you want to do, when I don't want to. Mark, I wasn't particularly meaning the forum post or the ad, although, the latter could certainly be rather 'in your face' I guess.
- Ian May
Apparently, the offended in this Iowa town haven't heard that there's no such thing as bad publicity. C'mon, believers. You have a bus sign publicizing your eternal purpose, and you get it pulled down? How about reaching out to the atheist group as "free-thinking" believers? Even Paul spoke to locals on their own terms. He didn't demand their pagan signage removed, he quoted their signage in his sermon! (Acts 17:23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage...)
- Joel Zehring
Yeah, that's what America needs, another Paul. :/
- Edward Zwart
Censoring atheism is religious prosecution since atheism is itself a religion. People have also forgotten that Jefferson, Franklin and co. were Masons and theists, not exactly fundamentalists. The country was founded by men who were largely atheists and freethinkers. The rabid style of fundamentalism first appeared as a product of the immediate post Civil War years. Jacksonian democracy...
more...
- Carl Gruber
The country wasn't "founded"..it was stolen... ;o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
Rob, sadly, you could say that about a lot of countries in one way or another.
- mikepk
@Ian But isn't all of politics exactly that, us trying to convince (reason with) each other about our beliefs. It's just that when ideology or religion gets in the way that it sounds like forcing. Strong beliefs loosely held still need to be hashed out. The trouble for some points of view is that they don't stand up well to reason. And then statements like the one's in this ad can be perceived as threatening or in your face, when in fact they couldn't be more innocuous.
- Edward Zwart
Yeah you could do... so people shouldn't say they were "founded".. cos that's a lie... ;o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
Carl: atheism is a religion like bald is a hair colour.
- Tanath
Danny Minnick: I just said in my last comment before yours why people should care. To repeat: "There is merit to 'live and let live,' but on the other hand beliefs matter. Actions are informed by beliefs, and people try to influence public policy according to their beliefs - so debate is important."
- Tanath
Tanath... so are you saying I am WRONG to NOT be religious?
- Rob Sellen :o)
Rob: What? o.O Did I miss something, LOL? I wouldn't be saying that, I'm an atheist myself.
- Tanath
ok... lol. :o) god told me to ask... ;o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
Is that so? Can you ask him something useful, like how to resolve the conflict between quantum theory & relativity for me? :P
- Tanath
I think one show is enough for me.... we will probably run our content on Leo's network. I don't have the time to build out an entire network like he is doing.
- Jason Calacanis
good one Robert...enjoyed it especially about value of "doing something that has broader impact" .Also liked the thoughts about doing it different" I am with you. See you at SXSW and lets catch up further
- Richard Binhammer
Richard: looking forward to seeing you!
- Robert Scoble
I understand what you're talking about re: PR, we've worked with you b4 (EA - Dead Space); I agree in principle with what you say, but what you're really talking about is the evolution of PR from a one way dialogue to a two-way conversation through the various touch points in social media. Connecting. Having a dialogue and a relationship. The personal touch. That's always been the difference between good PR and bad PR, not something new.
- Christian
Christian: that day at EA was absolutely great! If that's PR, I want more PR. The problem is that for every experience with PR like that I have 2,000 lame email pitches to go through.
- Robert Scoble
agreed. robert (OMG i'm agreeing with you:P). think of the 90s, back in the day when musicians were gods. good bands shied away from the spotlight and introduced their fans to great unknown bands who didn't get the same fame...
- Terry O'Fee
Robert, Couldn't agree more. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.
- Chandler
Times have changed! Thank goodness. I actually think it is a bit easier to get coverage now...at least it is far less expensive. The key point is that you have to be doing something interesting and creative AND get it out there in a more "real" way. Thank goodness pay for play is over :)
- Troy Malone
Just one comment: if you want to leave your children with something more than some bucks in the bank, teach them to cultivate a rich interior life. Nurture their curiosity about EVERYTHING, not just tech, or social media, or the NEXT NEXT BIG THING. A well-furnished mind helps one become good company for oneself, which is the only way to become good company for someone else.
- Victor Panlilio
More on Gillmor Gang in at 3 p.m. Pacific Time http://live.twit.tv -- we did this experiment two years ago and it'll be interesting to see how the marketers pick up on this announcement this time.
- Robert Scoble
from Bookmarklet
Ahh, now we are in my *social media comfort zone* Posterior placenta, about 10-13 week gestational age by viewing. Nice extremities and profile with nasal bone visualized already (soft marker for Down's when absence of nasal bone). Nice job!
- Janet-The Bottley Crue
We did same here, maybe same day, but no photos...the little "bug" needed a macro lens & the sonogram operator couldn't find one. Not polite in public what she did use but it is an internal device, an alternative to the belly transponder, and said shape is usually known by another name. Rather surprising in the further context that the sono operator was a very cute, young blonde. Confusing day. Russians (wife) keep such announcements secret until the second trimester, so I'm not allowed to speak.
- Douglas Hopkins
Douglas: yeah, we kept ours quiet until week 12 and also Maryam had a test to make sure the baby doesn't have Downs.
- Robert Scoble
Regarding "marketing experiment" - I forget where I read it, but someone said that the most successful advertising is the stuff that doesn't look like advertising at all, because it does such an outstanding job of meeting your needs. Valid points in your post, and there's no reason why smaller services can't try to meet their users' needs also. For example, look at all of the fuss over how services suggest users. What if your personal suggested users on Twitter were to suddenly include pediatricians?
- John E. Bredehoft
Awesome! 3rd BABY Scoble on the way! Cheers to you and your family!! How blessed you must feel right now. You've been through quite a bit of positive change lately - impressive!! Can't wait to hear more :)
- Susan Beebe
Congratulations!!! Solo parent duty this weekend and missed the announcement. Of course tinyprints.com would like to step up to the plate when the time comes.
- Rick Bucich
I think it's well worth it. Also, I don't think they will take it.
- Jason Calacanis
I agree that it might be worth it for Mahalo, but perhaps not so much for other business owners reading this feed.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
I can't believe I'm saying this, but - I think they should take it. They should change it from "Suggested Users" to "Sponsor Users" and give anyone who pays a certain number of impressions based on the amount. Bingo: revenue model. I'm waiting for my job offer, Twitter.
- Shawn Farner
doesn't scale: ~$165k/yr per sponsor, in current scrolling window there are 1st three initial spots & ~100 throughout the scroll - so, ~$500k cost for one of three top spots, and then sliding scale down from there - diminishing returns says that the lower you go the less valuable it becomes, so lets say they could generate another ~$2.5mm from rest of sponsors - that's $3mm for the sponsor list & a very small portion of what their profitable revenue needs be - monetizing api is still best way to proceed
- mike "glemak" dunn
"Americans have cut back on buying vehicles of all types as the economy continues its slide. But the slowdown has been particularly brutal for hybrids, which use electricity and gasoline as power sources. They were the industry's darling just last summer, but sales have collapsed as consumers refuse to pay a premium for a fuel-efficient vehicle now that the average price of a gallon of gasoline nationally has slipped below $2. "When gas prices came down, the priority of buying a hybrid fell off quite quickly," said Wes Brown, a partner at Los Angeles-based market research firm Iceology. "Yet even as consumer interest declined, the manufacturers have continued to pump them out.""
- Thomas Hawk
from Bookmarklet
I recall a couple of years ago that Consumer Reports claimed hybrids were not more cost effective due to increased maintenance costs. There's also debate if they're more environmentally friendly due to the manufacturing of the battery for these vehicles. It could be that hybrids are just more expensive, eco-unfriendly vehicles with great marketing.
- William Beem
I think falling gas prices is only part of the reason. A cratering economy and consumer credit being cut back/cut off has a fair bit to do with it as well.
- vicster
The new Prius will get 50mpg. Seems to me that sending more money than necessary to Saudi Arabia isn't a great idea.
- Robert Scoble
Consumers have the memory and reasoning ability of a goldfish, it seems. The economy tanked and gas prices took a nosedive. What do they think is going to happen to gas prices when the economy recovers?
- Eric P
Robert, we drive two cars that are at about 100k miles each. If one of them dies, we're buying another used car in the <$7000 range. Your comment suggests to me that your car purchasing mindset might be a ways off from others'. I'd like a more efficient car, and both of ours are above 20mpg highway, but we can't afford to make it our #1 concern when choosing a new auto.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
when oil>>gasoline prices start to go back up, this will shift back.
- grant fox
Even at 50mpg, you have to use alot of gas to break-even on the premium cost a hybrid model as over a traditional car. My $11k (after incentives) '08 Cobalt gets me 30mpg regularly. If it takes years to recoup the additional investment in the hybrid, people won't make that investment. Sadly, many people won't dig into their pocket book just for the principle of not sending money to Saudi Arabia
- Kevin Kuphal
This is interesting but the article speaks in absolute, not percentage terms... which makes it hard to analyze. *all* car sales are plummeting dramatically. the article could say, "sales of blue cars plummet".... (as vicster alludes to). Hybrids are not, *necessarily*, the most energy-optimal choice. They take more resources to build and it of course depends on your driving style/habits. But they are generally a smart, responsible choice.
- Anthony Citrano
As Eric says: low gas prices is a very temporary condition. People are dumb.
- Anthony Citrano
William: I recently heard about the environmental damage from NiMH battery manufacture although I have had a Prius > 8 years! Do you have a reference?
- Thomas Ho
from twhirl
Not true in a normal car market, Kevin. The Prius has significantly lower ownership costs than most other new cars for a 5 year period (which is longer than what the average owner keeps a car for BTW) because of its greater efficiency and excellent resale value.
- Scoble, Alex Scoble
the people aren't necessarily dumb, just misinformed. also consider the stigma of driving a prius in f-150 country, something that many left-coasters fail to recognize.
- grant fox
Alex: Would you happen to know at what price per gallon it's break even, i.e. hybrid vs. non?
- Ken Sheppardson
Isn't buying brand new cars an inherently profligate decision? Who's splitting hairs about 5-year TCO at that point?
- Daniel J. Pritchett
The best thing you can say about hybrids is that they kill us all just a little more slowly. I tend to agree with vicster... I'm betting a lot of the hybrids sold last year were purchased as a trade-in, likely in such a way that the loan the buyer got covered the new hybrid, plus the difference between trade-in-value and money-left-on-the-old-loan, and probably fairly impulsively. Not something people would do impulsively now nor be able to get such a jumbo loan for.
- Wirehead
According to Consumer Reports TCO for a Prius for 5 years is about $25,500 on a car that costs $22,000 or so. There are other cars with similar purchase price that cost $39k to buy. For new cars the Prius has the lowest TCO. This includes Corollas and what not. Of course this is based off of national average for miles per year.
- Scoble, Alex Scoble
And I'm not buying the battery argument. Toyota is saying that the batteries, in most cases, will last 15 years or longer with normal use. Cost to replace them is something like $2500 now. Because of recycling technologies available the old batteries aren't doing significant damage to the environment.
- Scoble, Alex Scoble
If I were buying another car, and I won't be for many years, I'd buy a used Prius.
- Thomas Hawk
I agree with you Thomas. My only caveat is that I still won't pay a large up-front premium for it. I figure lots of people are interested in the used Prius, so if it turns out they cost 20% more than an equivalent Camry or something, I'll probably pass.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
@grant - actually, no, people are dumb. ;) @alex: the CR research does not include the net environmental impacts of manufacturing a Prius, which are high and nasty compared to a traditional car with an ICE. Of course much of this is because of manufacturing and sourcing processes that are far from perfected.
- Anthony Citrano
A decent bike of any style costs less than the price difference between a Prius and a Corolla. Given the percentage of people who I work with who could commute via bike, potentially with a train or bus ride in between, but don't.... well... at least I can laugh all the way to the bank even if the rest of the country is busy polluting my air.
- Wirehead
If I could afford a second car, I'd buy a hybrid. Preferably another Prius.
- Nine
I guessed that would happen, before you had to place orders in & wait for months
- The Real sofarsoShawn
@sofarsosean that's why I don't have a Prius now. After mine got totaled, there was a 6-9 month waiting list. Right after I got a different car gas prices went down and there were Prius everywhere.
- Nine
IMO, the largest factor is that the Prius doesn't fit the average consumer's lifestyle. Is there a hybrid mini-van that has a lower TCO?
- Robert Hafer
I just drove through Texas today and almost every car was either a huge pickup or a huge SUV. And this is in a place where you need to drive a LOT to get from one place to another. It is Un American to keep buying these kinds of large cars. Getting people onto a hybrid is another argument altogether.
- Robert Scoble
The new Prius, coming out in May, has the best mileage of any car on the Californian market. The idea that hybrids don't get better mileage is wrong.
- Robert Scoble
@nine and why I had to forgo a 400rxh, which was my dream mobile, besides the waiting period it was also because they cost "that much more", over the long run you're not really saving any money unless you drive a lot
- The Real sofarsoShawn
Lindsey: sending money to Saudi Arabia is about the most unamerican thing I can think of. Do you disagree? If you do, what is "American" to you and how would something be for or against such a concept? To me being American means treating women with respect. That doesn't go on in Saudi Arabia. Being American means having a representational democracy. That doesn't go on in Saudi Arabia. Being American means freedom to wear what you want. That doesn't go on in Saudi Arabia. Buying a big car is VERY un American
- Robert Scoble
I'm buying a new Prius even though it does cost more. Why? To encourage more R&D into new ways to save fuel. To me this is an American issue and we must solve it. Solving problems costs money. But if we get a better car that'll make my son's lives better, so to me that's worth the investment.
- Robert Scoble
@Lindsey - good catch, usually when I hear a word like that my guard goes way, way up. In fact, sometimes I wonder if calling something unAmerican is unAmerican by itself. And to Robert's statement: for many, there's nothing MORE American than buying a bigass Lincoln Navigator, putting a "Support The Troops" sticker on the back, and filling the tank up with fresh Saudi-derived gasoline.
- Anthony Citrano
Plus, I drive about 20,000 miles in a year, so I can actually make a case for paying for a hybrid's extra cost, especially in the Prius, which sold so well that it spread the R&D over a larger number of units.
- Robert Scoble
But Robert being an American is also thinking you have the God-given right to be an ignorant fuck. How else do you explain the last decade, my friend? Also, your logic fails a bit in the sense that it says to be a proper American you must prescribe your specific value sets to other cultures / nations. Also under your logic, then by extension purchasing gasoline at all - or, for that matter, anything plastic or derived from petroleum - is "unAmerican".
- Anthony Citrano
Lindsey: most of the Japanese car brands are manufactured here in America now too. Yes, freedom is an important American value, but thanks to 9/11, which was funded by Saudi Arabia (and everyone involved came from Saudi Arabia) this is now an American issue because they want to destroy the culture we have here. Add in the other stuff, like global warming, and cost (gas prices will go up again, especially now that OPEC has reduced production) and it's pretty un American to defend big cars.
- Robert Scoble
Anthony: the Saudis would love to take our culture and shove it down our throats. But, you are right on first point. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Also - there's a difference between an "ignorant f***" and "insulated from the negative feedback resulting from your actions." Ignorance is not based on national affiliation, last time I checked.
- Steve Lynch
from twhirl
Robert: the objective of 9/11 was not to destroy our culture. Hearing that, I can't help but be reminded of Bush's "they hate us for our freedom."
- Anthony Citrano
I have the freedom to say it's unamerican to buy a big car. So be it. Anyone who wants to take away that freedom is unamerican too. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Saying that America's oil comes from the middle-east in particular Saudi Arabia is a long believed fiction perpetuated by Team America the. The fact is that the entire Middle East (not just Saudi Arabia) is third on the list of American oil imports http://www.nowpublic.com/money... so here in as #1 exporter to the US, Canada politely is waiting on our "Axis-of-Evil" designation then the following invasion. But agree with your value statement: on democracy/respect for others
- The Real sofarsoShawn
Cains: it's not necessarily us vs. them. There's a reasonable amount of evidence that members of the Saudi Royal family, which benefits directly from us buying their oil, at least partly bankrolled Al Qaeda. Regardless, the Middle East is inherently unstable. So depending on the region for so much of our energy puts us at risk.
- The original Kevin
Does that mean that blocking drilling in ANWAR or offshore is unAmerican.
- Robert Hafer
Robert is it unAmerican to call me unAmerican for calling you unAmerican for calling big cars unAmerican?
- Anthony Citrano
Robert: I support both of those things. Even though I live right by the shore you'll be drilling on, and even though I'm an environmentalist democrat. But, I think it's not one or the other. If I were God I'd electrify the car industry while doing a number of other things to reduce our dependence on foreign oil.
- Robert Scoble
Anthony: something like that. Heheh. Mostly I just wanted to have a good conversation today about this topic. If we can't change how we look at the world we are doomed. If we keep assuming we can be reckless with energy (and that's really what buying big cars is) then we're going to leave a world for our kids that's going to be pretty damn tough to live in. We need to change our approach. This is a VERY important thread for all of humanity, not just Americans.
- Robert Scoble
Scoble, true you do. However, everytime you say anything is unamerican it invokes the memory of McCarty. That illicits a very unfavorable reaction. But your point is noted- "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country".
- Roberto Bonini
@Robert - agreed. There's little more important than talking about our reliance on fossil fuels. Best time to deal with it was back when we were ridiculing Carter for saying we needed to change our ways. But sooner is always better than later, and it's far better to be talking about it with oil at $45 than $150.
- Anthony Citrano
Roberto: one method a writer can use to get you to pay attention is to illicit a very unfavorable reaction. Keep the conversation going, this is good stuff.
- Robert Scoble
"putting a gun to the head" of consumers to buy the car you (or the government) thinks they should buy will always fail in the long run. Energy saving cars have to be cars people want to drive or they will stay an oddity.
- Robert Hafer
Even though I'd buy a Prius as my next car I still like photographing the big old American Cars more. They certainly have/had more style back then. Of course I suspect back then people didn't realize how bad those cars were. Just like everyone smoked and pregnant women drank martinis and Miller High Life.
- Thomas Hawk
So, Robert, I can count at least 10 problems caused by cars. A hybrid makes 2 of them a little better. An electric car makes those 2 go away but leaves at least 8 problems (think of things like traffic and parking in SF) and will create new ones. Even environmentalist democrats like yourself need to take a few more steps back.
- Wirehead
If the government wanted to reduce the reliance on foreign oil then they need to remove any tax paid on the hybrid cars plus raise a tax on gas. That effect of this it will raise the value of hybrid cars in the consumers mind, even in a recession. The rise in the fuel tax won't have a big effect on the economy as it was surviving at a higher price a year ago. However there does need to be a sensible cap on the tax rise unlike here in the UK. To be honest I would kill to pay $3/gall, I paid $7/Gall today.
- Paul Bainbridge
@Lindsey, et al: There are many reasons why continuing to expend massive amounts of oil are bad. The nice thing about the "dealing with countries who actively dislike us" is that it's a good catch-all for both the left and the right. Without oil, most of those countries would be banana republics with weird customs that only make the news on occasion.
- Wirehead
I don't know if I should say this considering the tension here: but I ❤ my SUV and it runs on baby seals. And on patriotism http://www.youtube.com/watch... this explains it much better than any words I could use.
- The Real sofarsoShawn
You could drill heavily today and use the increased revenue to research safe nuclear reactors and rapid charge car batteries to make electic car green and viable for consumers.
- Robert Hafer
@Green no unfortunately I have to shove em in my tank still alive, it makes me feel guilty sometimes :( But then I get over it.
- The Real sofarsoShawn
Would some one please explain to me what the difference is between buying middle east oil and Japanese cars? There are many American made cars, including hybrids, that are equal in all areas of quality and fuel economy, yet all I hear is Prius, Prius, Prius. Great car, but if you buy one it's still sending U.S. dollars to Japan. The 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid is coming soon and that's the vehicle that I would be considering if I was in the market for a hybrid.
- Clearlight
Marc: really? Please post the Consumer Reports reviews. Post the gas mileage rates. I'm looking to buy a Prius, which gets 50mpg (the new one, coming this summer). Let me know where all these great cars are. Keep in mind I currently own a GM car, and before that, had a Ford Focus. But the Prius (the new one) is way ahead of anything else I've seen.
- Robert Scoble
Oh, and Japan's society is a lot closer to our own than Saudi Arabia's is. If I had a choice I'd pick Japan right now any day.
- Robert Scoble
In fact, that's another point. I'm not buying a new car today because I know the new Prius is coming out in May. So, I'm waiting. And I'm definitely buying a Hybrid next time. I bet I'm not the only one, either (there's a waiting list at every dealer in San Francisco Bay Area already).
- Robert Scoble
Chris: I have looked. The Toyota's tech is a lot more advanced.
- Robert Scoble
I'd like to think the answer is selling the American people on a targeted lockboxed tax (e.g. tax oil products solely to pay for infrastructure and research devoted to freeing us from a dependence on oil) but I suspect that the American population is too dumb even for that.
- Wirehead
Cisco asked us to unpublish that video until next month because it contained some info about one of its partners that is under embargo.
- Robert Scoble
We had to listen because they paid us to do those videos. If we had gotten those videos as regular journalists or bloggers we would have left them up and said "sorry, you don't get to pull them down."
- Robert Scoble
Judy: I really wish they would have thought about these issues before we had published. Makes us all look bad. But when partners are involved sometimes you can't see all the issues before publishing, unfortunately.
- Robert Scoble
This is why big companies don't give much access to real workers, though. Too many constituencies to serve. One team thinks they are OK to publish. Another team, after seeing them, says "um, gotta pull those down."
- Robert Scoble
Downside of pretend-journalism, indeed. Respectfully, you should get out of "real" journalism -- you're fouling the ocean.
- Dave Newton
is it a written agreement or not?!! but after all it is a moral agreement, the question to ask is the fellowing, will big company open doors to blogger any time and for any one?I doubt that they will do so often, the amazing fact is however they are big they can do efficient communication, why haven't do those video and to spread them using their own means (blog) or any thing? does big company weak in social ?
- abdellah
A couple questions come to mind... You knew the downside of taking the money so 1) why did you? Because of Rocky's situation? 2) Real journalism is blind to these money issues because they are "independent." If traditional papers are going bye-bye, where are we, the people, going to get our independent news from? With Rackable, you will still have some strings attached for certain issues, but at least I know in advance where you are coming from.
- Herschel
Anything about EZchip in there? Is that the partner? No, wait Marvell is re selling the EZchip into Cisco. That could be the partner. Network processing at wire speed!
- Stephen Pickering
So who exactly is Dave Newton? - "I'm a former broadcaster, advertising agency owner". What water are you swimming in Dave?
- Brian Sullivan
The question is, is it clear to the reader that the piece was paid for? If it is then its _just_ and advertisement and if its mixed in with regular journalism then it should be marked as such. Just as it is in the regular print media.
- Simon Lucy
Herschel: yes, partly. I was looking for ways to fund Rocky. I also knew I would get inside access no one else will ever get (which is true, I interviewed two guys who've been inside Cisco for decades who never give interviews). I also knew it would have downsides.
- Robert Scoble
So your passing on the money to noble causes is a kind of protest to the Cisco actions?
- Brian Sullivan
Dave: "real" journalists do pay-per-stuff too, they just do it under "advertorial" banners and often leave their names off of it. Ansel Adams did his art, and he also worked for Polariod and Kodak. People who make media need to make money and as long as people are transparent and disclose when they have conflicts they should be allowed to decide what they want to do.
- Robert Scoble
Brian: my passing on the money is one way to demonstrate that my judgment was not corrupted. Yes.
- Robert Scoble
I thought this line was hilarious: "Real journalism is blind to these money issues because they are 'independent.'"
- Paul Rodriguez
Daniel -- yes I know -- where do you think the quote was from? I was trying to determine which side of the fence Dave Newton is currently on.
- Brian Sullivan
there was one part of that video that unfortunately had some details that made one of our partners uncomfortable until their announcement. It will go back up, unedited, after the embargo is released. (I work at Cisco- http://blogs.cisco.com/authors...)
- Douglas Gourlay
Douglas works for Cisco and is part of the team who hired us to do two days of interviews with the top geeks and team.
- Robert Scoble
I thought Douglas worked for Cisco data center side? Is "intel" a Freudian slip related to the partner who wanted the video removed?
- Dane
Dane: I fixed my comment. Douglas works for Cisco.
- Robert Scoble
Ansel Adams is a photographer - not a journalist. There's a big difference. I think you deserve credit for being transparent, Robert, but you did take the money and sell your services to Cisco. My concern is we'll seeing more of this as traditional media collapses: http://tinyurl.com/djw4qs
- George F. Snell III
Dark: right, maybe not a good comparison. I do think we'll see a lot more of this too, though. On the other side, though, brands like ReadWrite Web are getting more and more popular because they don't allow people to do these kinds of things. Me? My Microsoft experience taught me that being inside lets me get some kinds of content and that as long as I'm transparent about it so my readers will know my potential conflicts of interest I don't see a problem with it.
- Robert Scoble
My point about Ansel, though, was that if you want to do your "pure" stuff, aka "art" or "pure journalism" then you've gotta find ways to pay your rent. I don't mind it when people do both "pure" and "paid" as long as they tell me when they are getting paid so I know it's not "pure."
- Robert Scoble
Ansel's son mentioned to me that Ansel approached his photography differently when he was doing it for himself or when he was doing it for Kodak (he did advertising photos that hung in Grand Central Station for Kodak, which is something I didn't realize about Ansel). Oh, and a photographer +is+ a journalist. Ansel's photos of the West are VERY important today as they document a bunch of stuff that doesn't exist today.
- Robert Scoble
I would much rather have people reporting information be honest, declare their potential bias or lack of objectivity and state the reasons in a straightforward transparent fashion than to blindly claim they are unbiased and totally objective. Nobody is completely unbiased.
- Brian Sullivan
I have no problem with scoble (or anyone) taking the money for work of this type as long as they are clear about it. It gave Cisco the control they wanted (its a shame that this happened but thats what they paid for). I can understand the problem if he was reviewing a product or even worse doing a group test ("i thought hte flip mini was the best camera and by the way thanks to flip for the large brown envelope full of cash i recieved). I say get off Robert's back He did a good thing g and gave us a great r
- Jamie Vidamour
Great Interview..you guys have no idea (or do you?) how critical the information you share and the social network symbiosis with regular folks like me. I am so thrilled to be in the same virtual proximity to you and the likes of Tim OReilly. I have been on a journey I started in the jungles of Belize that have brought me to NYC.."High Tech Retribalization" A Vision I cannot stop living..And then I met the minds such as yourself. Virtually :) Thanks
- bcultral
Robin, that's such a nice thing to say. Thank you! Happy new years, more to come next year!
- Robert Scoble
I look forward to it Robert..Happy New Year to you and yours!!!
- bcultral
"For the past couple of years, I’ve been studying the intersection of individuals and three Internet services: search, content and knowledge exchanges (aka KEs). These three products–or processes–serve individuals by helping them solve their real-world problems, and all three services have been booming over the years."
- Anthony Farrior
from Bookmarklet
I met Jason just this past Thursday. Cool guy. Very busy too. LOL. Let's see how this service goes.
- Amani
"Mahalo, the human-powered search engine launched in 2007 has added another facet to its angle of curated web content – a Q&A feature called Mahalo Answers. What sets it apart from similar services such as Yahoo Answers and the now defunct Google Answers is that people who use the service are encouraged to ‘tip’ those who answer their burning questions."
- Anthony Farrior
from Bookmarklet
Sounds like Jason speaks from experience. Cutting back sucks.
- Louis Gray
You are a bigger man than me, I have a Diet Coke in my hand already at 10:00am.
- Ambar Pansari
Think of all the aspartam you are getting, and you´ll be straight back on regular coke.
- ɯɥøq sɐɯoɥʇ
I kind of miss the days when breakfast was a diet coke and a cigarette in the car. Now it's just the diet coke. An improvement but still a ways to go
- Riona MacNamara
I went cold turkey, worked for me. The trick for me is to drink plenty of liquid (water) and have a little sugar (like a candy) to satisfy my sweet tooth. I have a soda on the weekends. So far, i've been free for 4 months.
- David Bisset (sn)
Awesome Video, Joi!!! Love the shots of you burning the leaves, hanging out in your backyard, and the persimmon at the end is gorgeous. Oh, and the momiji is beautiful too. :-) Great video. So what did you end up using for your workflow?
- David Sifry
Crowdsourcing does not always provide the answers that you expect. I wonder what would be on the front page of the NY Times if popularity was the determining factor for what stories got published. Celebrity gossip? If so, would they be obliged to hire Perez Hilton as their managing editor? People also tend to not like depressing news like people dying in wars, world hunger, pollution,...
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- scott anderson
Crowdsourcing? Who said anything about crowdsourcing? Who said newspapers should start editing the front page based on popularity? Where did the phrase "cater to the masses" come from? Where are you getting these things from? "If you want to keep their interest, you need to be interested in them." That was his main point. Does that say "edit the front page by market survey?" Jeez-a-roni.
- Jay Rosen
Slippery slope. How do you get there from here? Quoting from Dave ... "it was largely considered unethical for a reporter or editor to know which sections of the paper were most read by users of the paper. If the reporter knew, the story goes, he or she might be influenced by peoples' interests in deciding what to write about." Dave indicated that this type of thinking was a bug. I disagree.
- scott anderson
It's often commonly known information that some parts of the magazines are more often read than others (while that information is based on the small sample of tests). Anyways, in most newspapers most commonly read page is comics. ;)
- Daniel Schildt
Where's the switch? The switch that causes people to hear Dave Winer saying, "listen to users" and yet what the brain receives is "abandon all judgment, all intelligence to whatever people tend to consume." Where is that switch?
- Jay Rosen
Jay, it's the same switch that flipped when people told us at Salon a decade ago that we should never look at our traffic reports because it would corrupt our judgment as journalists and turn us into bottomfeeding scum.
- Scott Rosenberg
Yes, the same switch; and I recall that battle pretty well. By the way, is "slippery slope" considered a thought? I mean do people still think of that as an argument: "once you start down, the only option is complete loss of balance until you hit the bottom?" To me that seems more like an escape from the necessity of having to think about something, but maybe shouting "slippery slope" at a problem still sounds like a thought to some folks. If so, it's kind of sad, no?
- Jay Rosen
My most popular blog post is a throw-away picture of Bruce Lee beating up Chuck Norris. Knowing my stats, do I keep posting Lee/Norris stuff? No. But the next ten most-pop posts are about science, and I notice what style and format appeals to ppl, and I may slightly modify my writing style of posts about science - making them better because of this information.
- Bora Zivkovic
I can process the readers' info and not go down the slippery slope. I am still in charge, but feedback - direct through comments and indirect from traffic stats - improves my writing. Newspapers can do the same.
- Bora Zivkovic
Right. "Slippery slope" can mean "pack appropriate footwear, move with caution" but too often people use it to mean "that's scary, let's just sit tight." And there *are* sometimes piles of dazed bruised people at the bottom of the hill.
- Scott Rosenberg
Maybe this is what it is. When people make that equation, "to listen is to cave," they are not making an observation about listening at all. They are making an observation about other people, what scott anderson called "the masses." The masses lack discipline, the masses want entertainment, the masses want Britney Spears-- not news. Most important: the masses are not me, the observer of other people and their decadent habits. And so to challenge the equation, listening=caving, is to take "the masses" away.
- Jay Rosen
But "masses" are interested in stuff other than Britney Spears. Sometimes they don't know it because all the media serves them is Britney Spears: http://scienceblogs.com/clock...
- Bora Zivkovic
You never know what you'll learn if you listen, that's what's really stupid about arguing about whether you should listen or not. Maybe the people who want to say something to you might just make the difference between driving off the cliff and finding a new future. Maybe it's keeping *you* from having the great idea that cracks the nut.
- Dave Winer
BTW, when did listening become "listening in the aggregate." If you know anything about me, you know that I don't think of users as couch potatoes, passive participants. In the 80s when I ran a software company, we used to design regcards so as to solicit original thoughts, not just box-clicking. When a new batch of regcards came in I grabbed them and studied them for interesting comments. When I had a question, I called them and asked. It's also good for business if people get that you care what they think
- Dave Winer
BTW, you might have to listen to 100 users to get 1 good idea. In 1986, I had a meeting with Guy Kawasaki when he worked at Apple. I showed him an early version of one of our products, we had thrown the kitchen sink into it, every half-baked R&D idea, cause our company was failing and this was our last chance. One idea intrigued him. He said everyone at Apple was hand-designing foils to print on Laserwriters (they were new then). He took a piece of paper and drew a box around one of our pages, and...
- Dave Winer
asked if we could do that. Of course we could, and we did, and we immediately sold 1K copies of the product for Apple people, but more importantly, they were so excited by it, they in turn sold many more thousands to their customers, and our company went from being in the brink of shutting down to gushing cash. All because (drum roll) we listened to a user. Ask Guy if you don't believe me, he's on Twitter.
- Dave Winer
Once again, this leaves me wondering how journalism manages to be arrogant without being awesome. (The profession, not so much the people that practice it -- one suspects they've elevated a rough draft of their core values to a religion, and now can't escape from it.)
- j1m
The thinking behind the slippery slope comment was that newspapers are a business that exist to make a profit. The last season of "The Wire" provides a good example of what I was referring to. Once you start down that road, these temporary bailouts become more seductive.
- scott anderson
Also, I never indicated that users should not be listened to. I was referring to the actual quote related to ethics from Dave's article that you obfuscated in your twitter post.
- scott anderson
Lastly, for the record I am not a journalist. I don't even claim to be a good writer. I am a user of the news attempting to communicate my concerns related to this topic to those that in my opinion appear to have a self serving agenda.
- scott anderson
Who is it that you're saying has a self-serving agenda? I like the "in my opinion" part. In my opinion your mother wears army boots! Heh.
- Dave Winer
@Dave: You and Jay. I believe that blogging in all its forms has a valuable role to play in our society. However, I also believe that MSM publications that maintain strict journalistic ethics, including accountability, also provide great value and that the two should not be mixed or try to emulate each other.
- scott anderson
Well there you have it. You should make such accusations carefully and with evidence and back it up. What exactly is my supposed undisclosed (and unknown to me, btw) conflict of interest? (Can't wait to hear this.)
- Dave Winer
@scott "The last season of "The Wire" provides a good example" of a talented auteur unfortunately working out old grievances in public, spinning an entirely unbelievable tale of willful ignorance of total disregard for the truth. Simon also managed to transplant a 1995 newspaper into the current day, an organization that apparently has never heard of the internet, either for reporting the news or checking it out before starting up the presses.
- tim windsor
And I'm with Scott Rosenberg. Slippery slopes call for greater caution, but not total avoidance.
- tim windsor
I've seen this careful to not listen approach in interviews, too. It seems like a lot of journalists only ask questions they already know the answer to. Of course, they want the expert being interviewed to give the answer, but they might as well be putting words in his/her mouth.
- Gordon Vaughan
The line between listening and trusting your own judgment and expertise is a challenging one, no matter how you cut it. But I agree that the "slippery slope" argument is nonsense. If a journalist lacks the judgment to avoid the slide, h probably doesn't deserve the title.
- Pete Forsyth
Also, @davewiner -- I've been trying to participate in this discussion on your blog, but my comments have not been making it past moderation. Can you take a look?
- Pete Forsyth
It's unfortunate that the intent of my original question has gotten lost in this discussion. I blame myself for being too flippant and not tying the point I was attempting to make more directly to the exact issue I had a problem with. I'll try to rephrase the question again in a more precise manner. Dave was informed by the Berkeley J-School crowd that they believed it was unethical to use the data about which sections of a newspaper are most popular in decisions papers make about where to invest resources.
- scott anderson
I responded to Jay's post because he had generalized and distorted the opinion of the "J-School crowd". In hindsight I should have called him out on this and left it at that. All of my comments have been directed to how this specific type of data is collected and used and this issue alone. In regards to the more general question of whether newspapers are listening to their users or not,...
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- scott anderson
That said, for those that believe it is beneficial to use the data about which sections of newspapers are more popular than the others, how should this data be compiled and applied in an ethical manner? Do you survey all the potential users of a paper like the NY Times (aka the masses, the aggregate, etc.) or do you isolate a sample group based on some criteria? What is that criteria?...
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- scott anderson
The problem with the letters to the editor is that they are designed to protect the existing power relations. See this dust-up about the inappropriateness of letters to the editor in science publications: http://scienceblogs.com/clock...
- Bora Zivkovic
There are much better ways to listen to the readership than letters to the editor. News outlets have many opportunities -- some more legitimate than others -- to shape the public discourse and influence public opinion. In reporting, in the structuring of the medium, in the archiving of information. Proactively seeking out feedback is important -- and is commonplace in other industries. Some approaches clearly have ethical implications, while others don't.
- Pete Forsyth
@davewiner If your claim is simply "news outlets should listen to their users," it seems there isn't much for anyone to argue with. I think that's pretty uncontroversially true. However, it's seemed at several points that you are taking a stronger position than that.
- Pete Forsyth
I don't equate listening to caving or that listening will result in bottom feeders but I do not discount the effects that come from the pressures related to being a profitable business, especially in tough economic times. A blog or a niche publication is a much different animal than a news corporation. Are there specific processes or firewalls that exist in the news industry that...
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- scott anderson
I think knee-jerk or reactive answers come out of a specific context, and to suggest that news organizations are dumb or naive misses a more nuanced point. The kind of influence that advertising directors etc. sometimes try to exert over editors can be extreme, and so editors' developing a tin ear to that sort of thing can, in many cases, be a very good thing. It's important hear feedback, but it's also important to not waste one's time hearing repetitive feedback that you can't ethically act upon.
- Pete Forsyth
When Obama said he was not against all wars, just "dumb wars" people seemed able to handle it. Their heads did not explode from having to make a distinction. So...There's smart listening and dumb listening. I think everyone can handle that too-- including everyone looking in on this thread.
- Jay Rosen
Jay, I think we all agree that the distinction is important. The point I'm trying to make is that resistance to input is not always, or necessarily, a bad thing. That is a starting point for finding a solution though, not an end-point. Trusting journalists to have good judgment implies respecting their right to say "in my judgment, this particular feedback is garbage."
- Pete Forsyth
As an aside, I have been blocked from commenting on Dave Winer's blog, for reasons that aren't clear to me. That's why I haven't been involved in the discussion over there -- not a lack of interest.
- Pete Forsyth