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Steve Gillmor
Twitter has broken adding Twitter accounts to FF
try adding a Twitter identity to your FF account. I'll wait - Steve Gillmor
Works for me, no problems removing and re-adding my Twitter account. - netik
tinagillmor tries to add her twitter feed, gets an error. Says "could not find the given account." - Steve Gillmor from IM
bit quick to conclude that twitter has broken with FF don't you think? - Christopher Harris
no christopher if it's FriendFeed's problem I'll be talking on NGL in 30 minutes - Steve Gillmor
Happened to me as well, once I clicked the checkbox below the name and put in the password it worked for me. - J Allen
Jtio what checkbox, the one for Protected? - Steve Gillmor
yes I noted this problem yesterday and today - FF said it could not locate new twitter feeds I wanted to add. - Vernonkell
Don't blame Twitter; I just checked our feeds and are definitely sending tweets to Friendfeed, and they are receiving them. - netik
People are also having difficulty following people. I've seen many messages over the past couple of days with that complaint. - Karoli
Yes, the one for protected updates - J Allen
Where do you go to tune into the NGL live?? - Dave Winer
Bret Taylor of FriendFeed on NewsGang Live at 1PM Pacific stream - Steve Gillmor from IM
Something not working with Twitter? That's truly surprising considering they are the most reliable service on the net. - Bjorn Stromberg
i log into twitter and start following a user - cool. i go to FF and try to set up an imaginary friend (enter name, select twitter service, enter twitter name click "import twitter" and BAM: "We could not find the given account" whoever is causing this, it sux and needs to stop. - MikeAmundsen
interesting. I saw that a bunch of tweets seemed to come into FF 30 minutes late yesterday. I wonder if this is part of a strategy on Twitter's part to disrupt Twitter service within FF in order to undermine the competition without coming out and taking the heat for publicly pulling the API from them. I hope not. - Thomas Hawk
Figures the day I finally give in to starting a FF page and I can't wire up my Twitter account. - Tina Chase Gillmor
We're running into some rate limiting issues, but I'm working with Twitter to get them fixed. I just put out a work-around for now, so you should be able to add your Twitter account now. Sorry for the difficulty. - Paul Buchheit
Welcome to FriendFeed Tina. - Thomas Hawk
Wait, what's broken? Twitter or FriendFeed? Don't understand the post. :( - Mona Nomura
Broken for me at the moment too... -
same issue for me - Sinan Yuce
Same issue for me. It says "We could not find the given account" when I want to add the Twitter account... - HDG Ticaret
friendfeed is pulling my tweets from twitter. I want to stop this. In settings, I am not allowed to do it anymore. Can someone help? - Fatmanur Erdogan
Same issue, @Fatma, servislerden twitter'ı sil. - siniradam
so lame - old twitter handle in FF =/ - Greg G
Robert Scoble
Why I Have Resisted FriendFeed -
Wait until we start talking about him in FriendFeed. Let's see if he can resist the temptation to join us then! - Robert Scoble
lol@Scoble - Shey
From post: "In the end, I’ll probably cave…" - Hutch Carpenter
I caved to FriendFeed, though I only lasted two days. I couldn't handle being someone's imaginary friend. - James Rishabh Mishra
I resisted until Twhirl started supporting FriendFeed. I didn't like it until there was a desktop client. - Greg Hollingsworth from twhirl
These ideas will be around for awhile. He'll turn, though. Yes, its noisy, but its noise that helps when you're in this biz. - David Risley
I'm with Greg. The Twhirl support just makes it so much more bearable. - Rudy Amid from twhirl
Desktop clients are key for my if only they could work on the memory leaks. - nsnadell from fftogo
someone needs to come up with a "seven stages of friendfeed adoption" meme. - Chris Hollander
I stumbled back across this in reviewing some of my past blog posts. For the record...I caved. :) - Jacob Sloan
Gail Gardner
Massa’s Lifesaving Helmet | Pakistan Times! -
Massa’s Lifesaving Helmet | Pakistan Times!
"Last Saturday, during the qualifying session for the Hungarian Grand Prix, one of the freakiest Formula 1 accidents of recent years occurred to none other than Ferrari’s Felipe Massa. It was so scary that I sprang up from my bed and shivers ran down my spine. Massa’s life was spared by his F1 helmet. The Schuberth manufactured RF1.7 helmet was impacted by a spring which had come off the back of Rubens Barrichello’s Brawn suspension and while the Ferrari driver suffered skull injury from the projectile that hit him just above the left eye, the helmet’s ability to withstand such an impact at more than 275 kph was not down to luck but due to its impressive design." - Gail Gardner from Bookmarklet
Robert Scoble
EVERYTIME I notice a market shift, lots of people call me an idiot. Noticing the mobile shifts underway in Europe is no different. More:
The thing is, I talked with dozens of developers from across Europe this week and none of them said I was wrong. They said that there is a huge shift underway in Europe and that Nokia HAS lost mindshare and developer leadership and is underway to market share losses too. - Robert Scoble
This is something you can see with your own two eyes in the street. I'm seeing a huge number of iPhones compared to last year in London. - Robert Scoble
By Europe you mean Norway for eg. ? If so then it's more than natural! - directeur
At one London session of entrepreneurs I spoke in front of, 30% of the audience had iPhones. That was unheard of last year. - Robert Scoble
directeur: I am mostly talking about London, because i have the most experience there (been visiting there for years and watching mobile trends there). - Robert Scoble
Nokia has lost leadership and lost support of developers and Europe no longer has phones that make me jealous. - Robert Scoble
So you're saying the iPhone is popular? Um...what's next? - Tyler Hurst
It is natural! Mobile in northern europe is more developed than anywhere else - directeur
That is a HUGE shift from five years ago. - Robert Scoble
Tyler: not just iPhone. Lots of non-Nokia phones. Blackberries. Androids. - Robert Scoble
Robert, the infrastructures are ready, I bet better than in the USA - directeur
The texting culture there, though, is causing Nokia to miss out on the web revolution that's happening in mobile globally. - Robert Scoble
Having spent some time with the Nokia N97, the iPhone is a stunningly better offering... - Buzz Bruggeman
Surely its no surprise that wealthy entrepreneurs would have an expensive mobile phone? - Mark
directeur: yes, and the infrastructure is being used by iPhones. - Robert Scoble
Buzz: it isn't even close, unfortunately. - Robert Scoble
texting must die! - Tim Hoeck
Robert- iPhone more popular than anything else? Is it the apps that are winning? - Tyler Hurst
Mark: you are particularly clueless with that statement. Most entrepreneurs are very poor compared to others in society. - Robert Scoble
Texting won't die..but the availability of apps on the iPhone will widen the gap.. - Buzz Bruggeman
Mark: entrepreneurs are WHO SHIFTS SOCIETY though. So what they do everyone else does shortly. - Robert Scoble
Yes, but Nokia is fully invested in what's happening in the Valley, look at what they're doing at their Research Center here and look at the Valley companies they've bought - Chris Nuttall
Robert, I'm excited to see where things go. I've been watching the market and yes believe there's is about to be a catalytic shift. - Jason Cronkhite
Buzz: it's interesting that some of the coolest iPhone and Android apps are coming out of Europe. - Robert Scoble
Look at the distribution platform... no suprise... - Buzz Bruggeman
Chris: yes, and what has Nokia done with that investment? Just because you own a great set of technologists doesn't mean you will be able to fix your UI problems and your lack of belief in the web. - Robert Scoble
A friend told me there are more than 130k iPhones on the T-Mobile network here in the USA, e.g. all hacked... - Buzz Bruggeman
Palm, iPhone, Android all treat the web as a first class citizen on their devices. Nokia doesn't. THe web SUCKS on Nokia phones. - Robert Scoble
Chris works for Financial Times, by the way. I'm very interested in hearing his observations about what Nokia will do to fight the Palm/Android/iPhone push to web and great UIs. - Robert Scoble
Yes, it's a puzzle to me how they have done so poorly with their handsets in the US, but they do believe in the web, after all they have rebranded themselves as an internet company. They are still way ahead in their thinking but not their implementation. - Chris Nuttall
Chris: it's easy to say "we believe in the web." It's far harder to make the web work properly on your devices and make it a first class citizen. - Robert Scoble
On the notion of, "We Are The Media", I was at a local cheerleader camp and it was really interesting to see the lines of parents who all had their phones taking video, pictures and sharing media. It was almost like what you see on the red carpet events. - Jason Cronkhite
Chris... implementation seems to be a fairly important issue.. - Buzz Bruggeman
Scoble - ever use Skyfire? iPhone is going to take the "general public" share as its expected to for the next 3 years, but after that - if mobile technology grows into something more, Nokia will take it back with innovation. Something iPhone has yet to truly offer - No Name
Enrique: yeah, Skyfire looks interesting but isn't as nice as Android/Palm/iPhone approaches that are natively built in. - Robert Scoble
Robert, Buzz, you're right, just think it's too soon to write them off, damn clever those Finns - Chris Nuttall
Symbian OS is archaic and needs a new browser, certainly, but you can't dance the fact that iPhone has offered little innovation outside of marketing appeal. Nokia is where the forward advancement in mobile tech is going to come from - Apple has not ever and will not ever provide that (as they don't NEED to) - No Name
Finns are fine, bring out the sauna, but look rather at all the developers on the iPhone platform... - Buzz Bruggeman
Enrique: it's interesting. I have been using a Nokia phone for the past week and it sucks. Copy and paste? Far harder than iPhone. Taking a picture? Far harder than iPhone. Loading an app? Far harder than iPhone. Finding a wifi network? Far harder than an iPhone. Pulling up a web page and typing into it? Far harder than an iPhone. THAT IS INNOVATION THAT MATTERS, NOT WHETHER YOU HAVE A ZEISS LENS!!!! - Robert Scoble
Doesn't anybody ever have a problem with the iphone soft keyboard? I can't seem to get it right ended up back with the blackberry. - Jim
Nokia has been struggling for years to keep up with competition innovation. - Jason Cronkhite
Right now the bigger issue is what Apple has chosen to reveal in the iPhone OS, and what ATT can support! There aren't enough Finns to go around to match this.. - Buzz Bruggeman
"far harder" is FULLY subjective. - No Name
Chris: true. You can never count out Nokia, they have lots of interesting research labs and interesting people working hard on mobile, but they did lose their leadership and now it will be very interesting to see how they will get it back. - Robert Scoble
As for the softtkeyboard, Jim, it is good enough.. - Buzz Bruggeman
Enrique: no, it is NOT subjective at all. Just put a bunch of people in a room and measure it. I was with a bunch of geeks this week and we were forced to use Nokia phones and they really, really suck. You have no idea how badly they suck. And then when I talk with entrepreneurs and see that 30% have already switched, well, you are totally wrong and missing the boat. - Robert Scoble
Oh cool, an Apple v. Nokia thread. Robert, good for you if you're right. However, please don't mistake London for the whole of Europe. Or developers with average users. And please don't ignore the fact that there's more mobile web traffic in Europe than in the US (which was, if I'm not mistaking, said in that Really Mobile post you linked to). - Vlad Bobleanta
Yes, I think they need to strike more alliances here - the Intel one is a good start and supporting something like Moblin - Chris Nuttall
Vlad: I noticed the same thing last year at LeWeb in France and at Davos in Switzerland and in Tel Aviv in Israel (where there isn't even an Apple store, or there wasn't last year). - Robert Scoble
Vlad: average users ALWAYS follow developers. Why? Because cool apps drag people to new platforms. Eventually. And my subway trips in London prove that out too, lots of iPhones all over the place, just like in San Francisco. - Robert Scoble
Chris: those alliances won't fix Symbian. I think Symbian needs to pull a Palm and start over. - Robert Scoble
I've worked with Nokia phones for 11 years, they have definitely come out with shit phones, and crap OS works, but in the end - they thought of every aspect behind the iPhone 10 years ago with their "Yellow Egg"; and have strived to do more & do better. iPhone... no multitasking? crap camera quality? please, they trim & skim - and it's Apple, the abusers of the consumer. It's just how it is, Apple is a marketing platform, Nokia is a mobile tech company. Simple. - No Name
Slowly people will start shifting to soft keyboard smart phones. - Keven
Yes Symbian sucks, but it's like Microsoft abandoning Windows asking them to do that, well, maybe not quite that severe a move - Chris Nuttall
Enrique: again, the web is far more important to most people than having a sharp camera. This is provable. And having a great UI that's easy to use, along with tens of thousands of applications that are fun is more important. - Robert Scoble
As for Nokia, they're a little busy selling 1.5 million phones a day, and most of those to "emerging markets" such as India. As for the browser in the N97, I beg to differ. The UX is not 100% "there yet", but then again, it knows what Flash is. And it's by far Nokia's best browser so far. So I guess in the end you have to make a choice. Pretty or functional. Just don't mistake one for the other. Or you could just install another browser if you don't like it. Because you can do that on a Nokia. - Vlad Bobleanta
Vlad: I know the market share argument. It sucks as an argument. Alta Vista used to own the market share against Google too. - Robert Scoble
How much money do you make selling cheap phones in India? Just curious? - Buzz Bruggeman
Reducing Nokia to being simple a "nice camera" shows me that you're fixated on a biased notion. - No Name
Buzz: Nokia makes a lot, but that isn't my point. My point was that Europe used to be three to five years ahead in devices and now it is behind. THAT is a HUGE shift and one that is causing tons of developers to switch loyalties. - Robert Scoble
Enrique: there is NOTHING ELSE on the Nokia phones that comes close to being better than the current iPhone. Sorry, you can keep that argument up but it does not hunt. - Robert Scoble
Enrique: what matters most is delivering something that users will adopt and love. And, that is what Apple does well. Sorry to say that Nokia is just not delivering and has not for some time. I used to be and avid Nokia promoter (sold the product for years) but its time for them to deliver something to the market that performs and brings new value to use applicaitons. - Jason Cronkhite
Robert, I know you're busy - but to keep things ... realistically put together for this discussion, I've already written on this matter: and followed it up with - No Name
Buzz: It doesn't matter. You're there, the No.1 brand in India for years in a row. And then you add services to the mix. And give people their first EVER internet experience (on a phone, yes). Because that's just the way it will be. More people will be introduced to the net on a phone than on a computer in a couple of years, if not already. And most of those people are in India, Africa,... more... - Vlad Bobleanta
Jason, the problem with Nokia is US market centric for the most part. They have failed to introduce anything ground-breaking WITH service provider support since the Nokia 5190 (the first phone to introduce Apps, btw) - No Name
Well yeah. it's a now market. - Patricia
Vlad, so true ... developing and emerging markets will also shine new light on potential use cases. - Jason Cronkhite
Enrique: I've read your articles. They read like Nokia press releases. I've written them too. Here's my version of your article: written MONTHS AGO. The thing is, I wrote it before the iPhone 3GS came out and before I had good face time with the N97. Today? Sorry, the N97 doesn't come close to the iPhone. - Robert Scoble
I'd say you should look more towards the sony ericsson joint venture for the european handset firm with a better grasp on the market, even if their products have been a bit crap too. But then, I've never met a single phone yet that has been perfect. The iphone has its share of problems (the fact that after about 2 to 3 hours use the damn thing is dead, the touchscreen can be very hit or... more... - alphaxion
Jason: sorry, emerging markets are momentum plays. They ALWAYS FOLLOW what happened elsewhere. Name a single thing that's come up market. Just one. - Robert Scoble
If by user experience, all of you mean learning curve, I agree. There's a learning curve with Symbian, there isn't with the iPhone. But, after that has gone, the user experience is very close. If you're just willing to try. If you're not, then yeah, the iPhone wins by far. - Vlad Bobleanta
Robert: netbooks. - Vlad Bobleanta
Vlad: you are missing my point by making it only about the iPhone. You are forgetting the Palm Pre and the Android OS. Those point the way to great UIs with great regard for the Web. Those are the #1 and #2 things consumers are caring about. THEY ARE DRIVING THE MARKET EVERYWHERE NOW. - Robert Scoble
Vlad: netbooks were not developed in emerging markets, unless you say OLPC, which hasn't been very successful anywhere. - Robert Scoble
Robert: Not true, take a look at what has happened in Africa with crime (citizen mobilization) where new technologies have emerged because of constraints. - Jason Cronkhite
There are lots of companies selling lots of Netbooks, and the ones built on Linux get returned to the sellers, e.g. no drivers.. - Buzz Bruggeman
Vlad: you're wrong about the user experience. I've learned to use a Nokia phone. I'm one of the world's leading users of Nokia phones for live video (I was first to do that at Davos, for instance) but it still takes more frustrating clicks to get to the web and the web sucks when compared to the iPhone, no matter how much learning you've done. - Robert Scoble
Most end users don't want to try to learn something, They just want it too work for them easily. - Kim Landwehr
Buzz: exactly, and Jason, that's not something that has gone from third world to first world, sorry. - Robert Scoble
Geoff: you do realize that the OLPC was developed in Boston, right. :-) - Robert Scoble
Kim... agreed, people want easy, productive maybe next...but easy is the most important, e.g. taking anyway event the slightest pain... - Buzz Bruggeman
I'm not forgetting the Pre, Palm is forgetting the GSM/WCDMA world. I will remember them in Q4. And I'm not forgetting Android either, but I'm expecting a lot more from it in the future. Right now, I don't think the mass market takes it seriously the way it's starting to do with the iPhone, that is all. As for netbooks, Taiwan is not an emerging market, nor a developing one. But I... more... - Vlad Bobleanta
Buzz: actually, people will pick up more difficult things IF there's a compelling reason to do so. The thing is, iPHone has 40,000 compelling things that Nokia doesn't have: apps. The developers in Europe are building iPhone apps, they are NOT building Nokia apps. - Robert Scoble
I have arguing with Netbook oems that the first one that builds a touch enabled/tablet/Netbook that runs Kindle reader software is going to kick ass... - Buzz Bruggeman
Vlad: remember 1993? The Macintosh was way ahead of Windows. What happened in 1995? Windows became "good enough" and had FAR MORE APPS. That's why I am watching Android. The coolest developers are also building for Android. Apple has to be concerned that it's 1993 all over again. :-) - Robert Scoble
But compelling and pain, perhaps argue for the long tail, I would love to see a distribution chart for iPhone apps, my guess is that the 80/20 rule pervails, e.g. 80% of the iPhone apps are either the top 20 or max top 20%.. - Buzz Bruggeman
netbooks remind me of the old Psion computers (in fact, Psion actually hold the trademark to the word netbook!) - alphaxion
Buzz: No drivers? On an OS that ships with a netbook? LOL. One would think that's the first thing an OEM/ODM would care about. You know, it actually working. Anyway, who cares what OS they ship with, exactly? Thankfully Microsoft made XP cheap enough for netbooks so that it became a valuable proposition. You think people in emerging markets know what Linux is more than people in developed countries? They don't. - Vlad Bobleanta
Bill: I had dinner with someone who had lunch with the queen, but that's the closest I got! :-) - Robert Scoble
Vlad.. Windows 7 on a netbook is dazzling. Get one and try it.. - Buzz Bruggeman
Robert: agreed on apps. People develop for iPhone and Android because it is 100 times easier than for Symbian. That will change, but I wonder if it won't be too late. - Vlad Bobleanta
Bill: we have this conversation EVERY TIME there are shifts. You should have seen my arguments with AOL'ers over the Web in 1995. :-) - Robert Scoble
Buzz: I have a netbook and it's been running 7 since December. - Vlad Bobleanta
Vlad.. and? - Buzz Bruggeman
Bill: I still remember the kids who told me that Macintoshes were stupid, too, and that the world doesn't need mice and windows. Yeah, that went over very well. - Robert Scoble
Why haven't you installed Linux on's cheaper.. - Buzz Bruggeman
Buzz: And what? I don't understand what the point of your suggestion was. I use Win7 on all my computers. Therefore, I like it. A lot. - Vlad Bobleanta
Why do people argue against shifts? Because they invested in old stuff and don't want to change. But change is happening and I'm going ot point it out. - Robert Scoble
My point very simply is that the OS platform and all the apps that run on it are key.. there are no meaningful desktop apps on Linux, and the notion that we have bandwidth ubiquity is delusional... - Buzz Bruggeman
Robert: good. I'm not arguing against a shift. Something is always changing, and that's good. Because it's thanks to competition, which itself is the best thing ever imho. However, deeming something dead (as opposed to not having a competitive edge anymore) seems a bit much to me. But again, you might be right. In which case in a couple of years I will gladly admit that you were. - Vlad Bobleanta
these kinds of observations tend to be contentious outside of hard numbers -- people are touchy, you know ;-) -- but anecdotally... i just read the "Dirty Dozen Ugliest and Lamest Cell Phones" list ( and it's a funny look at some seriously BAD design. America has a phone on that list, as does Korea, Japan, and Israel. The other 8 crap phones are all European. Which is kind of surprising. - Karim
Hence, until someone comes along with rich applications that are available either offline or in some 4G world where you always are on line...Microsoft will own huge chucks of this space.. - Buzz Bruggeman
Buzz: But I agree with that. I don't know why, but it seems to me you are associating netbooks with Linux. When most now ship with XP. - Vlad Bobleanta
Vlad: I never said that Nokia was dead. I said it lost its leadership. That is a HUGE difference. Nokia will probably still be a profitable company for decades living off of its momentum. - Robert Scoble
@robert I think some argue against them because too many people cry wolf about them. I mean, I agree with you about a change in the handset market, I do still think Europe will remain ahead of the US for quite some time in most other aspects of mobile comms. But, I wouldn't be surprised if a change there happened. An open mind is a good thing :) - alphaxion
In the 3rd world the OEMs are trying to ship there own builds of Linux, trying to cut costs to the bone.. - Buzz Bruggeman
alphaxion: the neat thing about visiting a place once a year for years is you get to see shifts underway. This is a big one, and there's lots of UK developers who are poised to take advantage of it. - Robert Scoble
Buzz: you have numbers for that? And one more thing, by netbooks I do not mean OLPC. That's on another level. - Vlad Bobleanta
aye, attending tech events in places outside of London (I'd recommend the next time you come to the UK, you step outside of the M25 to see the real UK) you notice that a lot of people talk not only about iphone apps they're developing, but of the web apps they're crafting too. I think the biggest change that is happening is a much bigger uptake of mobile data in general, be it in phone handsets or in dongles strung off of laptops. - alphaxion
alphaxion: my brother-in-law drives a bus in Newport, Wales, so I get there frequently and he says he's seen more iPHones too. - Robert Scoble
Vald, sorry, just anectdotal info...because of our product, e.g. , which seems to be the perfect storm beneficiary for Netbooks, I have been reading and talking to anyone/thing I can about Netbooks.. - Buzz Bruggeman
I agree that there's more iphones (I moved from a palm treo to one in december last year), I was just pointing out that there's more to the mobile market than what handset a person uses ;) I still think you should come to some of the tech meet ups in Leeds, Manchester and Sheffield. - alphaxion
Scoble: what made netbooks so popular? The demand for small, light weight computing made for emerging markets. Now, the market has risen upstream because of constraint in the third world and made netbooks popular along with the timing of cloud computing. - Jason Cronkhite
alphaxion: I watch what developers do. I have never seen a shift that the developers did NOT see first. - Robert Scoble
Jason: netbooks are popular here, too. Why? Small low cost netbooks are popular. They didn't start being popular in the third world and move to popularity in Silicon Valley because of that. - Robert Scoble
Netbooks are disposable computers...amortized on a 6 month basis,and there is a nuclear arms race going on, not HP's recent model with HDef screen.. - Buzz Bruggeman
Robert: I see Symbian as becoming less and less mass-market (of smartphones). This segment will probably end up dominated, in a few countries, by the iPhone. And yes, maybe the Pre and Android too. Symbian will become more niche, and it will (read:should) appeal more or mostly to power users. Because of its underlying functionality, modularity and customizability, which are all... more... - Vlad Bobleanta
And about netbooks, Robert. Sorry. No one thought the need for a small low cost notebook existed in the US before they saw the EEE. I do not mean consumers, but manufacturers. - Vlad Bobleanta
And look how long it took the big guys, HP and Dell, to make their own. Always hoping this will just go away and they wouldn't need to sell anything with such small margins. - Vlad Bobleanta
Vlad... "ignore" is the operative word, think easy...that's all I hear, e.g. easy to use, easy to read..the great bulk of the people I know with iPhones have no clue that an iPhone has any limitations.. - Buzz Bruggeman
Vlad: right. But I didn't get netbooks because they were developed for some poor country. I bought them because they were cool and only $400. - Robert Scoble
Buzz: Cool then. But bad for them. Oh, and some day they will. In which case, unless iPhone OS 5 is anything different, they will need something more. - Vlad Bobleanta
Robert: the origination of netbooks where built because of constrained resources to solve other problems. They became popular here after seeing the effects of much simpler use cases because of the 3rd world. We only recognized the opportunity to innovate after the fact. - Jason Cronkhite
Robert: True. But they were sold in poor countries at first. Which drew your (and other connected people's) attention to them. This created a demand. To which Asus and Acer, in their bid to win market share, responded. :) - Vlad Bobleanta
And I've met plenty of developers that have backed the wrong horse ;) The iphone tho, I agree isn't the wrong horse in this case. Still, doesn't change that there is a general migration to mobile based internet connectivity instead of wired connection restricted to your home. Many of the mobile operators in the UK are giving away netbooks with a 3G dongle contract. - alphaxion
Damian: LOL. That was it. That was why it isn't Android, they were waiting for Chrome OS. Now it makes sense. - Vlad Bobleanta
Vlad: we're on the same page re: netbooks. - Jason Cronkhite
Jason: Yup, it seems so. Good to not argue with every single person here :) - Vlad Bobleanta
You make a lot more money being a fast follower than pioneer... Apple understands that...and so does Microsoft... - Buzz Bruggeman
@jason as I mentioned, the netbook is a kinda evolution of the pocket computers from the likes of Psion (who have the trademark on the name "netbook"). - alphaxion
alphaxion: Yes, that trend is extraordinary imho. The more subsidized netbooks, the better. The more people connected to the internet easier, in more places, and not dependant on cables, the better. Oh crap, now I'm going to have to argue with everyone for this. - Vlad Bobleanta
Buzz: that I do agree with completely. - Vlad Bobleanta
Vlad: I am not sure it's true that netbooks went on sale in third-world countries first, but even if that's true, it's not why I bought one. - Robert Scoble
Robert / Vlad: as Robert said, emerging markets are for momentum...well, Apple needs to look at these constrained and emerging markets to see how the product is used as I'm sure further innovation can be had because of circumstance. - Jason Cronkhite
I didn't say it's why you bought one, I said it's why you were able to buy one. - Vlad Bobleanta
Vlad: I don't agree with that thesis, either. Computers are always getting smaller and cheaper. But, let's get back to discussing mobile, cause even if you are right it really doesn't match the mobile shifts going on now and it doesn't explain why Nokia has lost its way. - Robert Scoble
Robert, I think Vlad & I are both saying that more innovation comes from circumstantial or constrained situations than more people give credit to or see. - Jason Cronkhite
Robert: Agreed. I didn't want to hijack this, but you asked for an up-market example. - Vlad Bobleanta
Jason: that's true. Vlad: yeah, but I don't see anyone marketing netbooks as "you should buy one because they are popular in India." While iPhones are marketed down market like that all the time. - Robert Scoble
Bill: heheh. This is how I work out my jet lag. :-) - Robert Scoble
Bill: don't worry, I have a ton of Microsoft stuff coming in the morning (among other videos that I did in London). - Robert Scoble
I think the key word in mobile is 'easy'. And this was pioneered by Apple. Which is why I keep coming back to them. It's easy to do this and that. Not much, but what you can do is easy. This is the key to success with average Joes, imho. However, for the so-called power users, I think the more options the better. The less artificially imposed limits, the better. It's how I see it. I... more... - Vlad Bobleanta
Robert: how do you feel about mobile commerce and entertainment i.e. live mobile consumption and mobile transactions? - Jason Cronkhite
Yes there is a shift in terms of attention from developers. The driver is the cool and fast user experience and the easy integration with the cloud and cool new devices IMHO. Europe has to catch up and developers must define their objectives. Why? There are the end users with different phones and a developer should try to reach out more than 1% of the world market. Europe mobile technology must attract end users and developers. BTW: Readers should separate between current market share and a market shift. - bishoph
iPhone has captured developers in a way only the Palm did 10 years ago. For this reason the iPhone is more compelling than the N97. Nokia's have been technically superior for years (internet tethering? come on Apple, Nokia's came with bluetooth modem drivers years ago) but Apple packages better, is easier to use and has attracted developers. Also, it's created a platform where the average Joe will be buying apps rather than the internet/gadget fans only. Technical superiority is only half the battle. - David Reinhardt
Robert: the problem of your initial statement is that you're saying "Nokia is European and used to be ahead in terms of mobile phones development, and now it is not, thus Europe is now behind of USA in mobile terms", but you never justify why or how Nokia's lost leadership puts Europe behind USA mobile-wise. - Marcos Marado from fftogo
Just curious about the usability once again @Robert Scoble. As I understand that u only have to slide down the lens cover of the N97 to activate the camera and then use the dedicated shutter button to take a photo, thus having the camera (and the screen) on a landscape mode like every other digital camera. U say that taking a photo with N97 (or some other Nokia device) is far more complex than taking a photo with iPhone. How much easier it is on the iPhone? - Henrikki
Otherwise quite interesting discussion. Nokia is at the moment as weak as it's weakest link, which is the OS. I have been a bit dissapointed about the time it has taken them to implement touch and really focus on developers. The OS is the platform and that is going through a major transition to open software projekt. Nokia just can't abandon the OS and the platform and the transition takes time. Do they have the time, time will tell. - Henrikki
There is absolutely no way Europeans would create their own proprietary OS for mobile devices to compete with the iphone and symbian. Nokia is BY FAR the biggest worldwide mobile phone producer, they sell about a billion mobile phones each year, no matter how many rich people can afford to buy iphones at your conferences. - Charbax
Android 2.0 is ready in September, that one will enable dozens of new manufacturers to come with iphone-killer devices, absolutely FOR SURE. Archos which I am the biggest fan of, they are french and making an Android phone with HD video playback, HD video record, up to 500GB storage, 4.8" 800x480 OLED touchscreen, Tivo-like video recording, DVB-T and DVB-SH mobile TV reception and... more... - Charbax
I was in West Africa last year and it was pointed out to me by a European working there that even though it's a poor country, everyone has a Nokia. And it was almost true. Every mobile phone I saw was a Nokia. They were intrigued by my iPhone but there is no way they could have used one to it's full potential. Compared to Europe and the US, Africa and Asia are huge emerging markets full... more... - Gilbert Harding
This whole conversation is cracking me up! Keep it up, Robert. Of course, a handset isn't the only measure of markets, technologies or leadership in mobile. I will add this point to Robert's observations. The highest ARPU (average revenue per user) globally is in the USA. The greatest number of talk time per month on a mobile happens in the USA @ almost 1000 minutes/month/per user. We... more... - Debi Jones
I'm in the UK now and have also noticed the shift towards more touch sensitive screens over here... my brother and nieces have had touch sensitive LG mobiles and other brands for some years now, way before I got my iPhone last year. They are all still laughing at my ancient PAYG Nokia phone that I use over here for calls and txts when travelling. It's like a museum piece compared to their cool touch mobiles. - Sally Church
@Henrikki as someone who owns an N97 and an iPhone, they are like night and day. The iPhone you just touch the camera icon on the screen and go, the N97 took me over a week to work out how to take a photo and a year later I still have no clue how to use many of the functions including setting up email on it. The iPhone is intuitive and doesn't need a manual. - Sally Church
@SallyChurch I think you'll find you have an N95. The N97 has only just been released, so there's no way you could've owned it for a year. My wife has an N95 and the only things she uses are the phone functions & to take pictures - everything else hasn't been touched. - Edd McArdle
Millions of people in the whole world do know just about <a href="">article submit</a> and article submission programs. It is available to take that for such good story like this topic. - Alexa29kh
Chris Nuttall
me @ / Google leads evolution of browser breakout -
"Google’s decision to extend work on its Chrome web browser to include a computer operating system is the latest sign that browsers are breaking out of their traditional mould, amid new developments in how we access the web." - Chris Nuttall from Bookmarklet
This is the best commentary I have seen yet on the Google OS announcement. Everyone is too keen to write this off as some kind of inconsequential play that will never see the consumer light of day. Also the involvement of linux confuses people too. This will change things for the better and make computers better, faster and user friendly. - Vernonkell
thanks! - Chris Nuttall
Robert Scoble
I'm at Accel Partners with #travelinggeeks in London and just heard a company talk about its Net Promoter Score. Why this is important:
Net Promoter Score is how the world's best companies now keep track of how happy their customers are. - Robert Scoble
I've heard it discussed a lot lately from a wide variety of companies (it's easy to get, only need to ask your customers one question), and at Rackspace it's almost a religion. - Robert Scoble
Wonga is the company and said its NPS is better than Google, which means it's very high. - Robert Scoble
We use it widely for all our online brands at Reed Business Information - Jim Muttram
Those companies with a high NPS will grow quickly without spending money on advertising. Spotify, for instance, has a high NPS and is getting 50,000 downloads a day here in Europe without spending money on advertising. - Robert Scoble
NPS is about more than just one question, if it's used right. It's about providing value to your customers, listening to them and acting upon what they say. Read Reichhelds book, the ultimate question. - Wouter Trumpie
Wouter: true, but many of us hate answering surveys so if you can keep them short you are more likely to get surveys answered, which is why I talked about that aspect of it. - Robert Scoble
definitely agree, should keep the surveys short and use the ultimate question, but you also need to interpret and act on the answers to the one NPS question. Why do or don't you recommend our product or company etc. Some companies just seem to measure NPS, because everybody is doing it, and do not do anything with the feedback they get, which is wrong. - Wouter Trumpie
essentially it is about how many people are talking about you and form the tribe for you.. hence this reduces the advertising spend for the company.. NPS = Evangelists i am guessing.. - aditi
For balance, here is a link to research regarding NPS called, "A Longitudinal Examination of Net Promoter and Firm Revenue Growth" - In summary, Using industries Reichheld cites as exemplars of Net Promoter, the research fails to replicate his assertions regarding the “clear superiority” of Net Promoter compared with other measures in those industries. - - David Gerbino
quite agree that NPS alone is not enough. Actionable feedback and trending is still needed. NPS as part of consumer feedback brings some order to often widely variable responses. - Andrew Cresswell
NPS done right can be very powerful. Very few companies only ask one question -- not even Rackspace. They use the NPS approach, in which you not only ask about likelihood to recommend, but also about WHY. They pass the individual customer feedback directly to the team members who can do something about it. It's the ultimate in actionability. By the way, that article David G references is bunk. Don't just read the text, but pore over the data. For a look at the data, see: - Rob Markey
Are company utilizes this NPS. Ultimate Question! - Mark Williamson from BuddyFeed
Rob Markey, can you find a credible source of an opposing view of NPS? I always try find an opposing or different view on topics such as these. There are so many NPS evangelists out there and for someone to make a decision to use NPS, or anything new, based on just one side of a concept is not always the wisest move. Did I drop the Customer Satisfaction studies I project managed in... more... - David Gerbino
David, The most credible arguments against NPS generally come from the market research/statistician angle. It is absolutely true that the math of NPS (a single question-derived number collapsing an 11-point scale into 3) makes it less precise than more sophisticated (complicated?) indices. In our experience, you lose roughly 5-10% of the predictive discrimination when you drop to a... more... - Rob Markey
Rob, good comment with some great quant numbers in support of your points. I tend to side with the "market research/statistician angle" group, however, when working directly with the frontline, the NPS types of approaches are much easier to conceptualize. When managing for change, sometimes the best method is not the most statistically accurate. - David Gerbino
egad .... NPS has been debated amongst marketers for years. It is useful if used with care. The primary benefit is the simplicity. The primary negative is that it can drive unintended consequences when companies try to shift the score. - Vernonkell
Robert Scoble
The #travelinggeeks are in the building where the oldest academic press started in Cambridge, England. (The Pitt Building) -
The #travelinggeeks are in the building where the oldest academic press started in Cambridge, England. (The Pitt Building)
Lots of history here in Cambridge. We are meeting local entrepreneurs and will be at Microsoft and Nokia research labs later today. - Robert Scoble
No map. Is geocoding turned off on your phone? - Bruce Lewis
Welcome to Cambridge guys - Constantine Nicolaou
Paul Buchheit
Real-time search. We have it. It's here. -
Try It's also fun to watch the embedded search on the blog blog post ( You can see people discussing the blog post, from the blog post, in real time! - Paul Buchheit
coooool - zsafwan 
GREAT ! - stanjourdan
Eeee. Awesome. - Mark Trapp from iPhone
Lol, you flipped the switch before the post came out as far as I can tell. I was searching for it and I couldn't see it. - Daniel J. Pritchett
Yowsa. Makes quick easy work out of social media monitoring, don't it? - Ian Wilker
YAY!!! FriendFeed staff rocks, that's all there is to it =) - FFing Enigma
WAAAAAAAAA.. meta real time search.. love the concept of embed a real-time search !! Way to Team FF -- luv u guys !! :)- - Peter Dawson
Do you guys sleep? Honestly, love the constant output and attention you guys pay to user feedback. I know this highly requested and probably not easy to implement. - Frankie Warren
Twitter Killer! - David Schmidt
Thanks so much Paul & Co. Excellent work! - Leo Laporte
hey love they way they launched search.. espcially when its close to "Search Marketing Day 2009" !1 - Peter Dawson
Thanks Leo. Jim and Gary did most of the work on this one though. - Paul Buchheit
Track is back! This is a gamechanger. - Mike Doeff from iPhone
Track is back! - Christian Burns from iPhone
Excellent news. - LPH™ and his dog P™ from BuddyFeed
I think I'm going to scream if I hear "track" again - someone please define it for me - Jesse Stay
Wow, great work! - Meryn Stol
I stand in awe of your hackfullness. - Ted Gilchrist
Good work. Much-anticipated. - Louis Gray
@Jesse: It's a dead twitter command "track keyword" sends you realtime updates whenever the word is used. Think of it like realtime google alerts for friendfeed. - Daniel J. Pritchett
I'm pretty sure Gillmor et al kept calling it "track" because that's what Twitter called it back when they had it for a week. - Daniel J. Pritchett
On a related note, live embeddable searches mean that I can hack together my own FF embeds for the pages that don't have them yet, like say "comment:dpritchett" - Daniel J. Pritchett
Daniel, Twitter never had this - this isn't "track" - Jesse Stay
you guys rock. - Karoli
The blogpost said they're working to implement "keyword notifications" Jesse, that will be "track" - Frankie Warren
Twitter's brought back track, it's just no one cares. You can now have updates by keyword on Twitter pushed to you, via XMPP, just like track used to. Gillmor says that's not track. - Jesse Stay
That's why I hate the term "track" - no one knows what it is. The way Paul is explaining it, as real-time search, is a much better way of explaining it. - Jesse Stay
I guess we're still missing the realtime notifications piece that folks want. You can shape the firehose to watch terms in realtime but you can't yet get it pushed outside of FF via email or IM? - Daniel J. Pritchett
Daniel, Twitter has that right now, but Gillmor says that's not track - Jesse Stay
/me prints up a few hundred "That's not track!" t-shirts - Daniel J. Pritchett
Jesse: Oh, i'm with you... Real-Time Search is a better term :) - Frankie Warren
BTW, integrating this into my blog right now - Jesse Stay
Me too Jesse. Making a new static page for that comment:dpritchett search I mentioned - Daniel J. Pritchett
this is definitely cool and all, but what about API? We are falling way behind on feature sets :) - Tim Hoeck
It's like an alternative to watching TV, in a literary sort of way. - Ted Gilchrist
awesome!:) - m.0
kewl! - phil baumann
Yay! This is the killer feature (once it's in the API, of course ;) - Brandon Titus
I'd love to see a blog post about how this is implemented. Real-time search has some interesting problems. - Chris Lamprecht
I take it back - I can't integrate this into my blog until I can filter it to a single list. I really need an embed for "comment:dpritchett list:e20" except lists are still virtual in that no one other than me can see them unless I use the atom export. - Daniel J. Pritchett
Awesomeness! I'm loving this right now. - Anthony K. Valley ©
Wow you guys rock! - Alfredo 亜瑠布れっど
I am sloooooooooooow. But what/where is the template to make the embeddable widget. please? - Marg Uerite
You're right Jesse - it's not exactly Track but it's getting a lot closer. The old Twitter Track allowed you to set up multiple search terms (e.g. track iphone) and get those delivered to your IM with zero time lag. At any time you could type "track" to see what you're currently tracking and "untrack" to untrack something - e.g. "untrack iphone". There are some third party tools that... more... - Mike Doeff
Paul, is there a way to change the title of the embed? The long search string looks kinda bad. - Jesse Stay
Mike, Twitter offers that today. Gillmor says it's not Track. - Jesse Stay
Marg, after you do a search, click the "Share / embed search" link to get the embed code. - Dan Hsiao
Jesse, are you sure? Can you provide a URL describing this feature? I think you're referring to Twitter Search (and saved searches) which is totally different. - Mike Doeff
Mike, it's in beta and available to developers, but it's back, minus SMS support: - Jesse Stay
Jesse, when / where did Gillmor say that isn't track? I'm pretty sure that Steve just wants the old track brought back, with some filtering capabilities added (the old Track didn't filter out blocked accounts). - Mike Doeff
Yay! Have been eagerly awaiting this. :) - Rick Turoczy
Mike, he's said in various comments. Looks like Track to me... Heck, it's even called "track". - Jesse Stay
BTW this is on now (look in the sidebar): - Jesse Stay
for my italian friends: stica... - Alberto D'Ottavi from fftogo
Jesse - you can hide the ugly search bar with a little quick CSS - it's <h1> under an easily identified class. - Daniel J. Pritchett from IM
Daniel, good idea - I'd love to change the title more than that though. - Jesse Stay
just a few minutes work and I have a FriendFeed realtime search embedded in a blog (web 2.0 event) - Jeroen De Miranda
FF guys: we like your style :) --- way to go!! - Harscoat
I think I'm going to cry - Bwana ☠
awesomesauce! - Simon Wicks
This is a really great innovation, congrats friendfeed team! - Garin Kilpatrick
Thanks, Jim and Gary! Lots of hard work for a very cool result! - Anne Bouey
HhhhhUuuuuuGggggEeeee !!! - Harold Cabezas
I want to 'Like' this *twice*! many thanks! - mr. lambert
The first step in a storystreaming platform! - Kevin Sablan
Whoa. Wow. And Yes! Fantastic work, FF team. - Micah
Good stuff although should support negative operators such as I should able to search my name in the all posts NOT coming from me. I've tried "from:-username" but it doesn't seem to work. - Ferruh Mavituna
OK, you guys are wicked talented! It's kind of scary, but I love it. So what's next? Just kidding:) - Michael Fidler
Ferruh: you just have it a bit backwards... try -from:username instead :) - Ross Miller
WOOOOOOOOOOW. Friendfeed is really pushing some cool features out :). Friendfeed is the best :) - alfred westerveld
How can we embed FriendFeed search? - Mike Reynolds
Mike - There's a link at the top of the search just beneath the red bar. - Mitch
A box will pop up, take the HTML code from the bottom of that box. - Mitch
Thanks Mitch! - Mike Reynolds
Nice the embedding code can be dynamic.... <iframe src="" frameborder="0" height="600" width="400" style="border:1px solid #aaa"></iframe> - Mike Reynolds
Thanks @Ross it works fine now, love the RSS output. - Ferruh Mavituna
tabbr likes this - tabbr
Woo! So: will this cause a FF server meltdown anytime soon? - Tim Tyler
very good! - standin
Highly addictive--great stuff! I did notice that if you do a search like [google] you'll see dupe stories streaming by quite a bit (e.g. the TechCrunch story about Google Voice shows up over and over right now). Not sure if it's possible to de-dupe based on destination url a little bit more? - Matt Cutts
two months after redesign, we have access to real-time search. good news bc my preferred search engine is friendfeed. ;) - Franc, a rememberer
We are there, in the battle against Twitter - Michael_techie
Best search engine became better :) - Chirag Chamoli
I can't say enough how amazing this is. So, I ordered a bottle of real-time translation to go with this magnificent feast of real-time search :D - Micah
Just to show what is possible now with this feature, I've built SteroidFeed: Go here to see it as well as download the files: Latest version is 1.01. - LPH™ and his dog P™
It's amazing! - Lizunlong
I've been waiting for this since the new UI, excellent, thank you Paul and FF! I'll give this a play later. :-) - Kol Tregaskes
Micah, really looking forward to having your scripts work in Chrome. :-) - Kol Tregaskes
This is great. Well done, guys. - James Myatt
Awesome :D - Praveen Vasudev
great!! - Mike Chelen
Tim O'Reilly
Nice summary of the mind-bending work of Jeff Jonas: Jeff is one of my mentors when it comes to thinking about data
Hmm. I wonder what he thinks of RDF and other semantic technologies. - Michael R. Bernstein
Excellent post. I'm doing some machine learning and data mining and the article shows many of the problems that we face trying to correlate data. Or even worse, to find out those relations that do not exist yet. - Arturo Servin
Paul Buchheit
FriendFeed Blocked In Iran, The Service’s Most Active Region -
FriendFeed Blocked In Iran, The Service’s Most Active Region
"In fact, Iran is one of the service’s most active countries, and it is the most active region as defined by comments per user per day, according to Taylor. Now you can see why Iran apparently wanted to block it. FriendFeed is great at facilitating conversations around topics. The reason for this is that it’s so quick to post a comment and have it be added to a thread. While this can sometimes lead to an angry mob situation, it also can be extremely effective at having a conversation about an important topic in real-time. Except, of course, when the Iranian government blocks you. The only people getting on to FriendFeed from inside Iran now are apparently doing so through proxies." - Paul Buchheit from Bookmarklet
Damn. - Heather
By like I mean, dislike. - EricaJoy
woah. - zeroinfluencer
no surprise :| - Frohiky
Strange that MG Siegler doesn't mention that one of the reasons FF is so popular in Iran may also be due to it being available natively in فارسی [Farsi]. - ianf ⌘
Also, since the headline is ambiguous, I should clarify that Iran is the most active in terms of "comments per user per day", not in total activity (the US still has the most activity in absolute terms). - Paul Buchheit
I love the troll that's in the comments there who is baiting friendfeeders. Ahh, lame. If no one cares about friendfeed except for me and Louis, what are all you doing here? And how come these posts have so many likes: - Robert Scoble
TC loyalists are on the defense... it's been a rough week and a half for them :-) - Chris Heath
All of these services are showing their value at a time like this. I wish the social media showdown would stop long enough for people to see that. - Eric - Final Countdown
Chris: on the other hand, maybe "Karen" is right. Maybe you're all in the mob and Louis and I are the mob bosses. Heheh. - Robert Scoble
To tell you the truth, I didn't even hop over to TC to read what all the hubub was about... I haven't had enough alcohol in me yet... :-) I try to stick to that old mantra: "don't feed the trolls" - Chris Heath
Amazing how helpful a service can be when it can operate in the language the users use... - Aron Michalski
@Robert: I'll admit that Friendfeed has it's mob-like tendencies, but no more so (and certainly not worse than) many other services. It's a danger of any hyper-connected online community. Hive minds form because people congregate around the concept that ideas are shared, as is Trust. When you trust intrinsically your sources for information, you're less likely to fact-check everything, and can be quickly mobilized into action. Sometimes this is a good thing, and sometimes it can go overboard really quick. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
Some folks would rename "mobs" to the term "swarms". Interest runs high and often passionate in a number of different areas, and you're absolutely right about shared ideas and/or affinities. - Karoli
Karoli, good point - I would add that 'mob' would be a more overtly pejorative term. Lots of people claim semantics when they're misunderstood but fail to understand themselves the meanings of the words that they're saying/typing. - Chris Heath
Some might rename "mobs" to "swarms." I wouldn't. At least not always. There have been times, at least a handful that I've personally witnessed, where it rightly *should* be called a mob, though you're right to say that it isn't *always* the case. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
Mark, agreed. My point really was that intent is the defining point. I consider a mob a group intent on destruction. A swarm is more of a group intent around discovery. One is certainly more benevolent than the other. Sometimes, like with the Iranian elections, the swarm is also a mob, but in that case, destruction may not be a bad thing, if the goal is to enforce the true will of the people. I'm not sure it is, by the way. I do believe the results were bogus, however. - Karoli
@Karoli. I'm with you re: results and whether they're the will of the people or the mob (or swarm) mentality in that both candidates have(had) serious issues with the concept of freedom and democratic governance. Since NO ONE becomes a viable candidate in Iran w/o the authorization of the mullahs, I would hazard a guess that the protesters on both sides are merely choosing between the... more... - Molly
Chris Nuttall
Dear CNN, Please Check Twitter for News About Iran - ReadWriteWeb -
Dear CNN, Please Check Twitter for News About Iran - ReadWriteWeb
"One quip we've seen is that "Tienanmen + Twitter = Tehran."" - Chris Nuttall from Bookmarklet
Robert Scoble
Robert Scoble
My wife is Iranian and she can't get through to her family in Tehran. More details on what she saw t -
apparently, it's a mess @scobleizer, a friend of mine is a Farsi interpreter for the BBC - Prolific Programmer from IM
but it does look like Ahmedinejad won - Prolific Programmer from IM
Tim O'Reilly
RT @google: The Google Wave keynote presentation from #io2009 is now available on YouTube
RT @google: The Google Wave keynote presentation from #io2009 is now available on YouTube
yes a revolution it certainly is - Thomas Power
Tim O'Reilly
RT @bfabry: Interesting points on Wave for privacy regarding decentralization. Wave suits the web better than facebook?
This article makes a great point and at the end of the day as we use all of these tools more and more as a part of our every day lives they become less of a novelty and more of a utility. Google apps is a utility and FaceBook and Twitter are novelties. I'm never going to entrust my business information to those systems but I've been entrusting them to Google for over 3 years now. As a... more... - Mike Elliott
Robert Scoble
Which person is making biggest contributions to the 2010Web? I'm making a list, see it here:
Here's the list: I need your help in improving it! How did I make this list? I scoured my business cards and my contact list and we brainstormed and came up with this list of 325 people. It's just a starting point. - Robert Scoble
The green lines, by the way, are people who are on friendfeed. That tells me whether they are really exploring the 2010web or not. - Robert Scoble
Got any other people who should be on this list? Let me know here. - Robert Scoble
Over the next few days this list will get dramatically longer and better. - Robert Scoble
*waving* hey Robert. have you met Xiao Fengjin? Founder of Linkool Labs behind the Juice app. and her Twitter -- try not to base opinion to heavily on FriendFeed use. You'll miss out on some cool folks overseas not using it. :) - So Much More Hawaii
Some on this list are journalists/bloggers. Some are very techie/developers. Some are marketers. Some are VCs. Some are entrepreneurs. Some are CEOs. Some are researchers. Some are power users who are pushing the web in interesting ways. I am looking to build a diverse group of people who are pushing the 2010web forward. - Robert Scoble
I don't know exactly who are the folks who are doing it - but the people who are making the great "detect your browser and if a mobile browser, show a well made, fully functional but mobile browser friendly version of the site" (see Gawker's site on an iphone for example) are among those making a big impact on the 2010 web - Shannon Clark
I suspect the people who will are not on the list yet - they are in china, india, or perhaps south africa or denmark and not on the Anglo Saxon radar - Iphigenie
So Much More Hawaii: I agree. I'm off to look through my Twitter and Facebook lists next. Joelle: that's why I'm asking here, so the list gets better. - Robert Scoble
Good point by Shannon - fixing what's there might be a bigger impact, but it will never be recognised as such. - Iphigenie
But everyone on this list will eventually be on friendfeed. Why? Because I'm building a private group to discuss some stuff with them. That'll help us all eventually. - Robert Scoble
*ack* that was me Robert. So Much More Hawaii aka Christine Lu. (i'm in Hawaii this week for Hawaii Tourism Authority) :D -- anyways, previous comment still stands. Go through all the folks you met in China last year. oh and the Poken folks. they're up to cool stuff beyond what they have on the market right now. - Christine Lu
Robert, send you a request to add some people in mobile 2.0 area. - Rudy De Waele
Rudy, names, we want names! Heheh. Thanks. - Robert Scoble
not directly the 2010 web persay, but I think what companies such as Barco are doing at the very highest levels of display technology (their LED screens were used, some 2000 sq. meters of in fact, for the amazing Eurovision set in Moscow) will have a huge impact in years to come on what we all use for our displays. If display resolutions finally start to really rise (on average) that will impact the web considerably - Shannon Clark
I'm mostly familiar with developers, since that's my profession, so I'd add: Damien Katz (developer on CouchDB), Terry Jones (founder of FluidInfo), James Tauber (creator of the Pinax Project), Brian Aker (developer on Drizzle), Mikio Hirabayashi (developer at, John Resig (wrote jQuery), Malcolm Tredinnick (probably the most active Django developer). There are definitely more but that's off the top of my head. - Eric Florenzano
Marco Derksen - (founder of,, Boris Veldhuijzen van Zanten (Next Web, Wakoopa), - Erno Hannink
You should put there tarpipe folks... - Marcos Marado
@robert add Lars Hinrichs, founder of XING, the only web 2.0 company to successfully IPO. -- He's likely to be starting something new in 2010. - Jason Goldberg
Wouldn't it make sense to start out with less people then increase until you find your getting interesting, relevant conversations Surely with too many people the conversation would quickly become overwhelming quickly, and maybe less focused - Chris Lloyd
Chris: there's a method to my madness, but, yes, I have a hard constraint that I have to live within. - Robert Scoble
Matt Jones & Matt Biddulph of Dopplr / Felix Petersen - Founder at, now Head of Product Strategy Social Location at Nokia / Christian Sejersen - Mobile Engineering, Mozilla / Raimo van der Klein - SPRXMobile & Layar (watch that name!) / Greg Skibiski - CEO Sense Networks / Ilja Laurs - CEO Getjar / Tommy Ahlers - Founder Zyb - CEO at Wayfinder Systems - now Head of LBS at Vodafone / -> most of them all at conference in Barcelona in June :) - Rudy De Waele
I don't envy your task, but if you get it right it could be very important for future web development. Will anything be published from the group? To aid future web developers? - Chris Lloyd
Robert, maybe Bill Balderaz at Webbed Mkting. About to release an awesome monitoring tool that will push the folks in that space. And maybe Beth Kanter who does wonderful things in the non-profit marketing space. - Gregg Morris
Chris: this list will form the core of Building43 and will discuss the 2010web in a private friendfeed group that will be opened to everyone else on June 11th. - Robert Scoble
And some of the guys at the W3C Mobile Web initiative - Maybe Daniel Appelquist? Also add Mike Rowehl (coded Admob, Mowser, Skyfire, etc...) - Rudy De Waele
there seems to be an overwhelming US bias to the list at the moment - Europe? Asia? - Russell Lack
If you're making it a closed discussion group elite, I urge you to try not to just have all the known incumbents - they're the people that made 2008. Get some new thinkers in there, perhaps people that see the needs and weaknesses, perhaps a few critics, and by all means people from outside the core US/UK/Australia/Canada/France/NL group. Of course it depends what you want to... more... - Iphigenie
Russell: got any names? That's why I put it out here. - Robert Scoble
Bwana McCall - Savvy, all-around blogger and technology - Ciro Villa
That's going to be an interesting list. Has it changed much from your older lists? Some user names both on ff or twitter would be great. I'm going to check to see if I can suggest some. Maybe Michael Fruchter should be included too. - Carlos Lorenzo
If we're including journalists, how about Caroline McCarthy? - Chris Lloyd
Carlos: I'm adding names from Facebook right now. The list is getting longer by the minute. - Robert Scoble
You'll be testing the limits of google's spreadsheet app by Wednesday - Iphigenie
I see other Jasons, but no Calacanis.. - Simon Wicks
Is there any particular reason a) why you're making this list b) why anyone should help and c) why anyone should care? The 2010Web seems more like a Robert Scoble PR campaign than a project with any depth. Where's the substance behind this? Someone please point me in the right direction. - Andrew Eglinton
Andrew: a) I'm building a community of people who are fanatical about the Internet for which is why I'm doing it. b) why should you help? Well, because maybe I've helped you along the way. c) why should anyone care? You shouldn't. Move on. - Robert Scoble
Interesting mobile 2.0 choice, Rudy. I'd say Andrew J Scott, Rummble Founder & CEO, should be on the list (@andrewjscott). - Alex Housley
Robert. Is building43 a non-profit outfit? - Andrew Eglinton
Andrew: no. It's a community sponsored by Rackspace. - Robert Scoble
Robert, this is a great exercise. But why do you assume those making the biggest contributions are the ones who are fanatical about the Internet? - Kevin Werbach
Kevin: because I have to start somewhere. - Robert Scoble
Kevin, plus, fanaticism without contribution seems pretty empty. And keep in mind what my goal is: it's to try to get more businesses and people into the 2010 web. To do that I'm going to showcase people who are changing the world with the Internet. That will get their attention. Then we need to show them how they can do it too. - Robert Scoble
Is there any danger of building43 becoming an A-list ivory tower or is this going to be the tech savvy giving back to the cyber peasants? Just curious (which obliterates point C of my previous interjection)... - Andrew Eglinton
Andrew: yes, there is that danger. But it will be short lived because after June 11th you'll be interacting with them. - Robert Scoble
on a country (Fr) & corp filter level I can mention those 2 guys in France. For the corporations they really use and promote 2010 tools to the highest level of those orgs: @ChristianFaure, @dlafont (Denis Lafont-Trevisan) - both Cap Gemini but I do own 0 stock there. They just really get it and they are on FF. Another one that really gets it / use it = Régis Gaidot @rgaidot. also in Germany/austria @bodenseepeter (not on ff). Alexandra Carmichael: - Harscoat
If you want to stay ahead of the curve, follow tipjoy: - Bruce Lewis
So in other words, you're channeling Barry Goldwater -- extremism in the defense of the Internet is no vice. - Kevin Werbach
Kevin: heheh. I'm just looking for people who are using the Internet to improve lives, improve businesses, or just plain build something cool. Stuff like Epochrates that's helping doctors around the world. Or Zappos. Or Twitter, friendfeed, etc. - Robert Scoble
I think you can add Nicolas Dengler co-founder of cocomment and co-founder of mixin. - Frédéric Sidler
June 11th. I'll be there man. Just make sure you've installed a helipad on top of that building though :) - Andrew Eglinton
The challenge is that most people don't want to change the world. They want something safe and comfortable. I'm with you -- the fanatics are the interesting ones, and life is too short to hang around boring people. Anyway, since I'm listed as an "Obama tech advisor", I'd suggest people from that world -- Beth Noveck, Susan Crawford, Vivek Kundra, Aneesh Chopra, and some others not yet announced. What they are doing is still in alpha, but is incredibly important. - Kevin Werbach
Kevin: are you in DC? I'll be there first week of June and would love to get some interesting interviews about the broadband policy stuff. - Robert Scoble
Robert, DM me and we'll tawk. I'm in DC about once a week, helping out and making trouble. - Kevin Werbach
You've said how you made the list, presented the list. But why are you making the list? (I hate lists btw -- when presented by magazines, newspapers, websites seem like blatant pandering - to both the people on the list and potential consumer) - Brian Sullivan
Brian: a few reasons. For one, I want people who have done something interesting. Having someone like Tony Hsieh or Joe Hewitt or Kevin Werbach or Tim O'Reilly as a founding member of a community will get attention. Having 200 of them will get a lot more. Second, I want to focus my content efforts on these people for the first month. They have more to show about what the 2010web will... more... - Robert Scoble
Robert: so the bottom line is that you are pandering? ;-) - Brian Sullivan
Brian: no, we are making sure we have a good list. - Robert Scoble
There's a method to our madness. The first 100 people you invite to start a community will decide how that community goes for a long time. So we're being very picky about who we start with. - Robert Scoble
towatch - Arvind
In response to your 'method' Robert. I agree, the first wave of people will decide the story of a community - providing they have ownership of it. But building43 is a top-down model, what's to say that the people you invite will want to buy into the ethos of your community? Doesn't community begin with collective impetus, collective need? - Andrew Eglinton
Andrew: Building43 is both going to be top down and bottom up. June 11th you'll see just what we are building (it's not just me working on this) and you'll understand. Hint: it's very friendfeed centric. - Robert Scoble
Well in that case I'm sold. Final question from me, and incidently I appreciate all your responses above,will there be a provision in building43 for artists? - Andrew Eglinton
Andrew: I have designers in mind, but how far off of graphic design and web design do you want to go? - Robert Scoble
Robert: While not being sure exactly where you're going with this, it might make sense to include at least a few (call it a control group) of stodgy old CIOs and/or a person or two from the likes of MSFT, ORCL or others that you would say don't "get" the 2010web (full disclosure I work for MS). Without this I think you risk having some serious groupthink even with the luminaries on your list. Maybe this is planned for later in your efforts but I can't help but think it would be a benefit from the get go. - David Ziembicki
I wish I was doing a big contribution, yet I am sitting here and waiting for it to come. So that I can use it :) - Alpay Erturkmen
David: I have a bunch of Microsoft people on the list. CIOs? I'm gonna go for stodgy old companies later. :-) - Robert Scoble
Robert: Better add David Hyatt (founding member of Safari and WebKit) and Maciej Stachowiak (another lead developer) - Charles Ying
Peter Norvig - Charles Ying
Robert, I see some startup people, but the list looks blogger/journalist heavy. What about those developers who may be the Bret Taylor of tomorrow, like Jesse Stay, Cesare Rocchi (Posty) and others like them. - Rob Diana
Oh I do so use Friendfeed :-) And thanks @ericflo! - Terry Jones
And, BTW, FluidDB is nearly nearly out (as a restricted alpha). End of June, we hope. - Terry Jones
Robert Robert Robert, do you ever sleep? - Myrna
This is all fine and dandy but we've got to have last mile bandwidth. Why isn't there a pure Conduit Communications company out there that doesn't have another agenda? The phone companies have their legacy phone business, the cable companies TV. Fiber to the home is what we need. Not geeks. All those people on that list times a million mean nothing compared to fiber to the home. Why is... more... - Web Nex
Wish this list had a way to breakout who is in Michigan. I would love to connect with these folks. - John Minni
Robert: What about Chris Garrett? Maki (doshdosh)? I was gonna propose Tim Ferriss, then changed my mind, then saw he was already on there. ;) - Shéa Bennett
FYI, Andy Baio is on FriendFeed ( as is Jeremy Zawodny ( And I'm pretty sure Kevin Fox is on here too... ;-) ( - Tony Ruscoe
Mark Silva at Real Branding; an outstanding thought leader on the possibilities of Social Media. - Mark Evans
You should add Allyson Kapin who is the founder of Women Who Tech - Sandra
I've been working on how to automate the routing of data streams (such as Twitter/FF updates) so that the network as a whole will begin doing the work of selecting our content for us, eliminating most of the need for manual following/unfollowing. It seems like these ideas could congeal into a definite algorithm very soon. - Joshua Maurice
@rob thank you very very much! glad to be compared to Bret! - funkyboy
theres a top 50 CEO's that twitter here on business week - this would be a good starting point - although I think most of them are on here already. - Nigel Walsh
may I be part of Building43 please Robert? - Thomas Power
@Thomas - you are moving to the US? or is this the virtual building.. - Nigel Walsh
Thanks for including me bud :) - Chris Saad
I'd add @bitsweat aka Jeremy Kemper, who worked really hard to merge mirb and Rails into a new version of Rails. It took diplomacy to mold two rival coding teams into one, and as well genius level coding skills. It's hard to find someone on your list, Robert, who is both a diplomat and a great coder. - barce
a bit corny, but in line with Time Magazine - isnt it all of us? - Nigel Walsh
okay, one more not on the list: When Marc Andreesen was on the Charlie Rose show, Charlie asked him what the next big thing was. Marc didn't answer. Then Charlie asked him about who was working on the most interesting stuff. Marc's answer: Andrew Chen. Andrew came up with the Freemium model spreadsheet... okay, I'll stop. :-) - barce
More fields on Robert Scoble's spreadsheet would be helpful: Affiliation, Title, Facebook Page, Friendfeed Page, Twitter Page, Email Address. (URLs for the pages.) - Sean McBride
Max Levchin ? is another good guy. Co-founder and former CTO of PayPal. - Guy Vander Heyden
'Us' - AJ Kohn
Someone who you don't even know exists yet. - Dean Clark
@yoast for WordPress SEO - Jeroen De Miranda
Robert - I know you have met Sol Lipman and David Beach, founders of - Justin Korn
Robert, btw, John Furrier is on Facebook as well as Friendfeed (you have him listed as FF only). I'm on both - I'll let you decide if I should be on the list or not, though. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
have you investigated @andraz and @gandalfar from Zemanta? I think that understanding text will be a killer application for tracking citations and topics between bloggers - Michele Costabile
thanks for the include robert, btw i'm most definitely on friendfeed ;) - mike "glemak" dunn
Dave Armano (now working with Peter Kim, et al) - Susan Beebe
Mark Zuckerberg is on facebook ;) hehe - add X - Susan Beebe
@eldsjal and @MartinLorentzon from Spotify, and if there is someone out there who have not tried spotify yet, ill strongly recommend you to do just that. This is the way it should be done not just with music but also with video! - Nerkez
It's pretty good, but Andrew Keen belongs on there. Also, so few women on Web 2.0-3.0, eh? Glad you include VWS with Rosedale and Koster. Wagner James Au has not done anything original in 5 years. - Prokofy Neva
Barrett Lyon of BitGravity and who was one of a handful of people who mapped the Internet - Loren Heiny
Maybe Steve Gillmor because at least he is always thinking about this stuff all the time and working it, even though he's always wrong. - Prokofy Neva
Prokofy: Steve Gillmor not being on the list was a major oversight. I always treat my friends the worst. Hmm. - Robert Scoble
What about Dan Cohen, the Digital Historian leading the Zotero project? He's on twitter @dancohen. They're going to be launching a social network for researchers from undergrad to professor that will open up the research process to everyone through their Firefox plugin. - Aram Zucker-Scharff
Paul Todd [ ]. Involved in development of useful apps ( like OneBridge ) for Symbian phones... - Arvind
Damn, need to work harder to make it on this list - Alexander van Elsas
Robert Scoble
PR people, this is the best place to pitch me. See why here:
1. It's in public, so you'll get a little buzz. - Robert Scoble
2. It's a room just for pitching me: - Robert Scoble
3. I can interact with you in a way I never can on Twitter. - Robert Scoble
check out the trailer for my film - Jason Pollock
4. If you pitch me here, I'll follow you so you can send me direct messages here, which are a TON better than DM's on Twitter. - Robert Scoble
5. Other people can join in, which will help you make your pitch better. - Robert Scoble
6. You can use more than 140 characters. - Robert Scoble
I think you will really respond to the content of my film and so will your followers... its all about teens who run for public office in America and youth empowerment!:) - Jason Pollock
7. You can use videos or photos. - Robert Scoble
8. Your pitch here is permalinkable, along with all interactions. - Robert Scoble
u rock scoble! thanks for all your great advice:) - Jason Pollock
9. If you are really spammy I can delete you and I can block you so I can keep this room clean for real companies and real PR people. - Robert Scoble
I like it a lot that one can post comments on the frienfeed embed at the crunchcam page. No need to go through to comment on a thread anymore - Charbax
10. I can reshare anything here to both my friendfeed followers (36,000+) and my Twitter audience (88,000) with one action. - Robert Scoble
Also, Check out It's a new dating service that is built on top of twitter. It's a pretty genius idea and I think single tweeters will love it! Here's a hashtag for it... #140love - Jason Pollock
11. We can talk in real time here back and forth, like what Jason is doing. - Robert Scoble
Jason, it's best if you started your own node in this room, though: - Robert Scoble
nice! thanks for the info and then mention scoble.. u rock! friendfeed is fun. - Jason Pollock
I'd like to pitch you on a new product I'm developing that reduces the green in avatars. - Rex Hammock
Great idea. I've bookmarked this page for the future. Quick question...does this mean you want to be removed from relevant press release emails? (emphasis on relevant) - AllisonWagda
Allie: nah, email is fine too. - Robert Scoble
friendfeed is even better, though, for all these reasons. - Robert Scoble
hmm.. now if I only had something to pedal. Anyone want to look as some pics of my niece and nephew? There, pitch complete. - Kevin Murray
Right, will keep that in mind :-) - AllisonWagda
Brilliant idea!! Hope to read a post on how this works out for you ; ) - Katie Fox
12. I'll actually answer you here, at a rate 100x more frequently than Twitter and 1000x more frequently than email. - Robert Scoble
13. The editorial staffs of TechCrunch, Wired, and VentureBeat tell me they hang out on friendfeed very often. Wired even does all its editorial workflow in a private room here. - Robert Scoble
14. Every time this room changes it pops to the top of my "Groups" list, which prompts me to come here and check it. Far more attention getting than DM's on Twitter. - Robert Scoble
15. Any comment added onto a pitch makes that pitch more searchable. I just added the word "enterprise" onto one of the pitches, for instance, which will make that easier to search for me. - Robert Scoble
Kudos. Love this list...From Saint-Saturnin-de-Lucian, France Pop. 229 - La Peira
Sorry you can't join us for the Intuit Town Hall Thursday, but if you could spread the word via Twitter or wherever I know they'd be really jazzed. They're streaming live at and tweeting @intuittownhall. Let me know when is good for you to talk about Intuit this week. I'm a huge fan, so thanks for your time! - Meri
Meri: start a new post in the room, that way I can retweet it. - Robert Scoble
99. As @wellcomemat's Chief Stand Out Officer (CSOO), I feel compelled to say hello. Hello Robert! Now check out the most powerful local video player on the internet: - Mat Man
Ok, here goes! Get yourself educated about how the US Federal Government is deporting families: Spread the word - xxx xxxxx
Nice approach, Robert. - Louis Gray
This is a great idea! Thanks, Robert. - Gretchen Doores
So not to be too much of a naysayer robert, but what happens when this medium becomes overwhelming for you as well (since you started on email, moved to facebook, moved back to email - though a new address, and now here)? - Jeremy Toeman
Hi Robert, I’ve got a Silicon Valley startup has an engaging new way to manage the information you track on the Internet. Check out the personalized list they’ve created for you. And if you think that’s cool, you should check it out on your iPhone or G1. Go to, click the log-in button, for user name paste in: For password enter: robert01. Let me know what you think. I can take you deeper into the app and their business model upon request. Chao for now. - Rick Popko
Matt Cutts
Ready for Chrome extensions? Me too! Here's how to start writing them: See also
Robert Scoble
@gregcollier my job hunt was over before I quit my old job. But my new job will be announced on Saturday on Gillmor Gang @stevegillmor
Awesome, that is nice to have things all lined up nicely like that. Of course, that's not due to just luck.. you're a very talented and smart guy with a crazy amount of industry connections and good will. You're a good example of career networking... very cool. Can't wait to hear what opportunity you landed! Cheers! <insert bottle of wine> - Susan Beebe
Congrats! True talent cannot hide, even in a recession. - Martha
congrats! - Jay
What is really funny is I wasn't looking for a new job at all because I had a contract that ran until next January. I am glad everything worked out, though, and can't wait to tell you what we are working on. - Robert Scoble
I'm impressed. I have my same ole job since '97. Since I've heard of you first on 2006 that's your third or fourth job. - Oliver Widder from BuddyFeed
i could make a few bets on what robert's new job is - Allen Stern
Thats terrific - good luck Robert. - Vernonkell
Outstanding and I'm looking forward to your announcement as well. Cheers! - ka3drr
Allen - DM me! LOL I can't wait - way too curious! - Susan Beebe
Robert Scoble
Photo from Cisco chairman's office: -
Photo from Cisco chairman's office:
I am hanging out with @omarsultan and @aplese looking out the window in front of John Morgridge's office at Cisco. What is the grey building in middle of photo? A power plant. Reminder that Silicon Valley's new Internet companies need tons of power to run their datacenters. - Robert Scoble
and what does Cisco have to do with your new company? - Marc Canter
Marc: not much or maybe everything. - Robert Scoble
Wow, cool!!! - Susan Beebe
What happened to John Chambers? - paul mooney
John Chambers is the CEO. - Aaron deMello
John Chambers walked by at one point. His office is one floor up from here. - Robert Scoble
Liked, now personally, I prefer to outsource my internet power, and when will somebody please build some Tesla Coils out here! - CLC Radio
I love Cisco and I always have and I always will :) - TheHenry
Thanks Henry! I must say I do too :) - Douglas Gourlay
Chambers is CEO and Chairman. John Morgridge was Chairman before Chambers and is still Chairman Emeritus - and a very well respected philanthropist around the office - Douglas Gourlay
Robert, I LOVED your facebook video you did at Cisco Labs - AWESOME! (I'm a geek, can you tell?!) - Susan Beebe
Robert Scoble
A famous VC told me this week that Facebook is raising another round of funding at about the $6 billion valuation mark. I wish I could invest! Would you?
Can't wait to see how big their round will be... - Daniel Brusilovsky
not sure I'd invest as the upside would now be relatively limited - Shannon Clark
He told me he was considering putting in $25 million. Asked me if I would do that with my money, if I had it. I said "yes." Of course it wasn't my money, but Facebook is the success story. Far bigger than Twitter and thanks to Thursday's announcement I can see a way for them to make a ton of money. - Robert Scoble
I'm still not convinced that they will ever make decent revenue. That being said, if they were public I'd probably pick up a few shares. - Blake
Nope. Too late to make the bib gux - Francine Hardaway from twhirl
No i would invest in twitter. - Mark Overy
Blake: I wonder if we thought about that when the yellow pages first came out when the telephone was very new? - Robert Scoble
Is there information involved in that yes that isn't public? Like what the books look like (how much revenue are they generating anyway?) - What is the burn rate? etc - or just because you think they will "get there"? - Brian Roy
Brian: he didn't give me any other information than this. I'm just going over their growth rate, they are growing a service the size of Twitter every 10 days or so. - Robert Scoble
what is their annual profit value? how much of that money would you be likely to get back in real terms - "potential" doesn't count, I would want a real idea on how much money their business is generating before ever considering investing. (I don't have the cash so it'd be a moot point anyway) - alphaxion
I call Facebook "the velcro of social software services." They have tons of ways to hook you onto the service. Far more sticky than Twitter. - Robert Scoble
Invest in a company that lost $8 billion from its valuation 16 months ago? No thanks. - Mark Frost
alphaxion: in 1991 could you have answered that question for Google? No. That's why VC investing is risky. - Robert Scoble
Robert: 25 million seems small for Facebook, considering their last round was $100M, but of course that is only one VC. Did he tell you how many where in this round? - Daniel Brusilovsky
Mark: every company has lost billions in values in the past 16 months. That attitude toward investing seems pretty stupid. - Robert Scoble
Robert - totally agree with the stick factor. My question is how good is the plan to turn lots of users into actual dollars. If that plan is good (in a non-obvious way) I'd invest. - Brian Roy
Daniel: no, he just told me what he was considering. I'm sure if it's a $6 billion valuation there will be a large pool of folks in there. - Robert Scoble
Scoble: Good analogy. I'd like to be optimistic about it, but I just feel in my gut that the whole social networking business model still hasn't been perfected. I definitely agree that Facebook will eventually crush Twitter. - Blake
Brian: you have to read between the lines, but now they are letting brands be full members of the social graph. I see a TON of ways to make money with that. - Robert Scoble
Brian: here's my audio report from the Facebook announcements this week. -- in there I explain a bit about how I think Facebook will make money. - Robert Scoble
No, at least not in long term. - andrei_c
This doesn't seem like a good idea. $6 billion?! Robert, when you say Facebook's announcement last Thursday are you referring to the new page layout for companies? How much money can that bring in? - Nidhi Makhija
Robert - agree. But revenue is about execution. So it isn't just seeing how you might/can do it but being able to get to it effectively. That is Google's genius. I'm guessing they have the team/leadership to do it... which is why I'd invest (once I heard the plan). - Brian Roy
Nidhi: my bet? Over next 10 years? 100's of billions. Look at Google. Facebook is facing an opportunity that's in Google's neighborhood. Of course a lot of implementation is to come and they might not get there. But I see a way that they'll make billions. - Robert Scoble
If they monetized as well/heavily as Myspace, they would only have $1B revenue. Is he really going to get a 10x return with a $60B exit? Common or preferred? - Andy Beard
Brian: right. And who is on executive team at Facebook? They are executing pretty damn well. Just go see Sheryl Sandberg. She was an executive at Google and knows the secrets to delivering value. - Robert Scoble
depends on liquidation prefs, but assuming i got at least 1x preference i'd be an investor for anything south of $10B. at $6B i'd be pretty bullish; that seems like a reasonable number if you look out 3-5 years. - dave mcclure
A $6 billion valuation would make Facebook more valuable than:, Sun Microsystems, or NetApp. In fact, you could buy Sun + eTrade + Sirius Radio + TiVo and still have more than a billion in pocket change left over. - Louis Gray
Not a chance. I'd run screaming from the building before I invested in Facebook. Sticky does not mean profitable. I remember that 1.0 adage "Get the eyeballs first and then monetize". Lots got the eyeballs - few figured out how to monetize. - AJ Kohn
Andy: the opportunity here is a lot bigger than $1 billion. MySpace is small change compared to what Facebook is going to do. - Robert Scoble
Andy: When I go to MySpace it tells me NOTHING about my friends' behavior when it comes to other businesses. The social graph is very powerful for businesses. Much better than what MySpace built, which is why key executives are now leaving MySpace. - Robert Scoble
I'd invest too yeah - Kaysha
I would invest. I believe Facebook is the OS for social media and something more. They are the White Pages of the Internet. And with an upside limited only to the imagination. - Jeff Pulver
Robert - You'd really feel safe investing in a company whose valuation isn't stable though? - Mark Frost
Negative. not at $6bn. We have absolutely no idea what it's worth, let's be honest. Nobody does. It's a straight gamble. I'd prefer spend the cash on buying into cloud-enabling companies like Cisco and server manufacturers, and the best placed players in the cloud ie Google and MS. Maybe... - john conroy
"going to do" ... Digg, Facebook, Twitter ... they all say they're "going" to figure it out. Show me a profit stream (even a small one) and I'd invest to help scale it but ... until then Cuba Gooding man ... Cuba Gooding. - AJ Kohn
Mark: that's why it's investing and not a "safe bet." VC is risky. So is buying stocks in companies. - Robert Scoble
Does anyone know for sure - does Facebook lose money every time they sign up a new user? In other words, is the reason they're raising money because their revenues are not growing to cover the costs of their growth? - Simon Brocklehurst
...further to my comment above: I guess what I'm really saying is that at $6bn you're talking about a blue-chip, and Facebook isn't a blue chip. It just isn't. - john conroy
Only tonight I glanced down my 'All Friends' list in Facebook and noticed how many have no status. They have not logged in for 7 days or more. In many cases a lot more. The fascination is on the wane. My money? No chance. - Darren
Robert: Oh I know that, I'm just speaking as someone with a very light wallet. ^_^ - Mark Frost
Darren: tell me how that is any different from this: -- I bet your Facebook friends are more engaged with you than these Twitter followers of TechCrunch. Click on 100 followers of Techcrunch. How many have more than one Tweet? 2%? 10%? Not more. - Robert Scoble
john: Facebook is signing up 700,000 new users PER DAY. They are growing the size of Twitter every 12 days! Blue chip? Absolutely. Just like Google was. (We had the same arguments over Google six years ago). - Robert Scoble
Sticking the money into GOOG currently would be a better deal, or AMZN - GOOG 2008 revenues were close to $22B - based on similar can you see Facebook making $15B yearly revenue? - AMZN is currently worth only 6x gross profit - but then the VC neds to invest his money somewhere, and GOOG and AMZN are not an option - at the end of the day FB is relatively low risk and an easy way to do your job as noone will criticize you for it - Andy Beard
Andy: you probably said that sticking money into Alta Vista back in 1999 was better than Google. Wrong. - Robert Scoble
and yet - the fact they are raising money shows that we have not found a revenue model that can cope with the costs they incur - they could self-implode in 1-2 years unless they find an effective route to making break even - Nick Halstead
Read today in Times magazine an interview with Zuckenberg stating that monetization is not a priority yet while Facebook is not getting break even. By the way, did you notice that the fan pages are changing and look now as profile pages??? - Zack Brandit
Zack, yes. That's exactly what I was talking about here: - Robert Scoble
Chris: that's wrong. Everyone on my forums were talking about Google in 1999. Google didn't have a business model until 2004. - Robert Scoble
The problem Facebook has is that people seem to get bored of it. Most people I know are using Facebook less today than they were a year ago. I never saw this pattern with Google. - Simon Brocklehurst
Scobe: Are you saying that Twitter's model isn't working, so Facebook's will? Twitter v Facebook comparisons are fruitless. - Darren
Darren: no, I know that Facebook has 175 million who has signed in in the past 30 days. How many does Twitter have? - Robert Scoble
Chris: OK, I'll grant you the 2003 Google. Same points still hold. You're not feeling it? I look at how addicted my wife is to Facebook (and all her friends). This is the Google of this time. - Robert Scoble
VC is certainly risky.. but a good VC wouldn't fritter their money away on something that wouldn't give even a little bit of ROI. Otherwise they simply wouldn't be a VC for very long. It's all well and good saying "I can see a lot of ways to make money", but visions and actual money making are 2 different things. So again, please answer the question and say how much they're currently making. - alphaxion
"Everyone on my forums", is exactly what White said, "hardly anyone" and he is correct. - coldbrew
I am not saying it is a bad investment, but just imagine Facebook had already IPOed last year, and had managed to figure out their revenue to bring it up to Myspace level, which would then make a $6B valuation on $1B revenue in line with GOOG and AMZN current market valuations. - that isn't necessarily a VC deal - unless they were looking to use the money for a cash purchase of Twitter at a much lower valuation than $500M - Andy Beard
coldbrew: this whole conversation sounds exactly like the ones we had about Google in 1999-2004. - Robert Scoble
I seem to remember a company called Netscape was all the rage once. - Jan Simmonds
@Robert: No, Facebook is not the Google of it's time. Why? Because Google had a very clear business plan. Sell relevant ads on search results. Direct marketers (me) got it and ran with it. It took time to build but it was a clear business plan. Facebook doesn't have that. Unless of course they turn Facebook into a search portal - if they did that then the size and stickiness of the site benefits them. Outside of that, SocNet advertising doesn't seem like a viable business plan. - AJ Kohn
I have concerns about Google if I'm honest. They too fritter their money away on investments that fizzle out to nothing (look at how many companies they've bought for massive amounts of money), they're limited by the size of the advertising market (think as to why they've been slashing their returns on adwords). Now, their positioning as a content delivery caching network is a far more promising one. - alphaxion
Robert - "no, I know that Facebook has 175 million who has signed in in the past 30 days. How many does Twitter have? "- you're still doing it! Comparing Facebook favourably to Twitter does not mean Facebook have a good long-term model. I'm not saying they don't, but if a Twitter comparison is the best these dudes can come up with then "I'm out" as they say on Dragons Den. Using your sort of comparison, who is to say that Facebook is now Google 2003, whilst Twitter is Google 2000. Which one has more upside? - Darren
AJ: you are totally wrong. Google didn't have a clear business model until 2004. I know the guy at Exodus who almost shut down Google because Google couldn't pay its bills. - Robert Scoble
I think most of you people hang out mostly with technophiles; I do not. - coldbrew
Chris: I'll never been that rich. I'll buy you a mojito at the Ritz, though! - Robert Scoble
@Robert: Just because they couldn't pay their bills doesn't mean they didn't have a model or plan. It took time to build the momentum ... the world of search had to 'tip' - and when it did Google was well positioned *because* of their plan. I just don't see that with Facebook. What are they positioning for? - AJ Kohn
I can say most of my 30-something friends only found FB w/in the last 6 months. - coldbrew
Facebook fatigue has certainly been kicking in for myself over the last few months whereas as my Twittering has been increasingly steadily; it is just more "useful". That said, they certainly do appear to be functionally converging, so who knows where we'll end up... - Kevin Bluer
Who cares about Facebook or 6 billion. What are your plans after Fast Company? Is it true they fired you? - Bruce Curley
Kevin: I can see an argument about why you're right, too. On Gillmor Gang right now is Paul Buchheit of friendfeed and he points out that Twitter's API is far easier to develop on. That ease is turning into all sorts of interesting apps which make Twitter more useful. Well, we'll see. That's why VC is risky. - Robert Scoble
If I were a VC I would definetly ask for a clear plan of privacy policies before investing. This might be an issue. I would also ask for some guidelines on future updates since FB seems to change its homepage very frequently, which might result in a potential failure. - denizoktar
Bruce: I was not fired. I resigned my video show to do something else. I still am working part time for Fast Company. I have plans, but will not disclose them in public until SXSW on Monday. - Robert Scoble
@Robert: BTW - this famous VC you mention ... are *they* investing or not? - AJ Kohn
AJ: they didn't say, they said they were considering it, but sounded like they were going to the way they were talking. - Robert Scoble
At this point, I would not invest in anything except gold. Do I sound like a nut? Just check out this video. Actually look at a bunch of his video over the years. Peter Schiff called it all. - Dan Cornish
I'll point out again that while VC is an inherently risky business, it's still not a case of blindfold and a dartboard. A real VC would do at least a bit of research and see if they're likely to make a return. If not then they're not a real VC and would either be someone who can afford to lose the money as it's merely a diversion (kinda like how some people will play the lottery) or a fool. - alphaxion
Dan: Gold and Guns sounds like a good investment strategy over next year. Me? I'd rather be in Facebook, but then I have a front-row seat. - Robert Scoble
Chris: that's funny! But no. :-) - Robert Scoble
@Robert: Interesting. Always appreciate the information and opinion. I disagree and don't see it myself but ... I've been wrong before. Been right before too though ;) - AJ Kohn
You all need to read this: Indie Facebook Developers are making over $700,000 per month. Like I said, there were billions and billions here. - Robert Scoble
Chris: I do not have any compensation or investments coming from or going to Facebook. I was invited to a press conference on Thursday and I have a front row seat because I know many of the players involved and I read a lot of RSS feeds. :-) - Robert Scoble
YES, I would invest!!!!! - Susan Beebe
how many of the indie developers are making those figures compared to the rest? also, advertising revenues, again, are the core of it. How about revenues that don't involve advertising, as in real and repeat direct spending of the users not the whim of other companies? And of this, how much money are facebook themselves making, since this money fountain could all vanish should facebook itself fold. - alphaxion
I bet the sum of the people advertising using Adwrods are making more than Google in total as well - the people using Paypal owned by Ebay are most certainly making bank, but for some reason Ebay isn't even worth 2x their revenue. Facebook developers making $700,000 is nice, great return, invest in the app developers if there is longevity. - Andy Beard
@chris that's my fault.. I called it adwords in a previous comment - that's what 5 beers does to my word association skills! >.< - alphaxion
coldbrew: sorry, I just fixed it. NO need to keep an error in my comments here. - Robert Scoble
Was just watching you on TWiT Live, streaming to my 52" TV via my PS3. Look fwd to seeing more of your stuff on TWiT Live in the future Scoble. - Jason Cartwright
am I the only one who seems to feel a certain air of "ponzi scheme" when your questions are met with answers of "look at these people, they're making money from it" without actually answering your question? And don't think I'm being snarky for snarks sake. I'm really trying to gain an idea of why people are yelling "buy this!" without really backing their claim up beyond "trust us". - alphaxion
I'd rather buy Citi stocks. - Mona Nomura from fftogo
alphaxion: when you are getting 700,000 new people a day you'll figure out a business model, especially since you know so much about each of those people. People who understand media understand the very real value that Facebook is aggregating. - Robert Scoble
again with the vague "well, we'll figure something out... just keep pumping us with money" answer. It doesn't matter how many new people you are getting onto your service if there's no tangiable sense of where the money to pay for it all is going to come from. It is very similar to youtube. They were burning through cash, plenty of people were saying "it'll make loads of money somehow" and yet google are *still* looking for ways of making it profitable. It's the kind of economics that leads to bubbles. - alphaxion
there simply aren't enough people that sit down and ask "so, how much money are you making and how much do you project this to grow realistically". Which is the basic tenet on which all companies have been founded upon. - alphaxion
@scoble... yes, people who understand media understand the real value that Facebook is aggregating, but not if they understand it in the OLD way. if this just turns out to be another advertising play, because they've 2 billion+ eyes, another way to sell people products they don't need, then, hell, I may as well pull the plug and turn Amish... not really, but all of the stuff I've been hearing so far doesn't make be feel confident that FB will end up being anything we haven't already seen... time will tell. - .LAG liked that
Robert this question sparked such interesting comment you should ask more like this. FB to me is a fad unless they buy Twitter which with Twitter Search could be a new Google. Agree with Chris White MS-Facebook is a likely outcome. Google must acquire Twitter before Vodafone wise up. Keep leading the debate Rob. - Thomas Power
What are they spending all that money on? Or is just banking money to survive the future? - Brian Sullivan
@chris actually, I'd say google was all about weaving themselves into the sites they lead you to and the apps you use to access this info. Having dealt with administrating systems, it's scary just how many apps and system builders integrate their toolbar and desktop apps and how many sites use their services that then collect data on the visitors/users. A question I don't see asked and answered often enough is "why?" - alphaxion
@ChrisWhite I certainly meant Adwords not Adsense - people advertise to make money (well unless they are Auto manufacturers) - I look on the Facebook App platform in many ways as an advertising platform, though the transaction that takes place between Facebook and the App developers isn't currently a financial one. Maybe things would be different if Facebook had their "FacePal" payment... more... - Andy Beard
Chris: that's an interesting question. CEOs should never say never when it comes to future business decisions. - Robert Scoble
Social networking seems like a commodity to me. Glorified address book + activity stream. Long term, why is it likely that one company will continue to command a proprietary premium on this? Do we not forget the staggering claims for these companies made doing the last bubble? Lots of similar claims by many companies in the 90s about # of user signups, stickiness, etc. If social networking platforms are so valuable, they're gonna get commodified. Wordpress isn't the only way to host RSS now is it? - Ray Cromwell
I can feel a Metcalf's law retort coming. :) It's like Godwin, but for business model debates. - Ray Cromwell
Chris: really? I don't agree with you. If you can survive through a depression you'll come out of it with rocket burners on. Google gained steam through the dotcom bust. Facebook is gaining steam through this downturn. - Robert Scoble
Chris: agreed. Facebook is not going to have an IPO this year. I can assure you of that. The investors will keep them going for two more years at minimum. - Robert Scoble
Can I buy Twitter instead? - Patrick from twhirl
@Robert: You're thinking "aggregated rich user data" is going to be the Facebook gold mine? Advertisers and brands I chat with think it's of marginal value. Big brands already have deep databases with multiple reporting lines. Prizm data gets you 75% of the way there most of the time. Facebook might be another reporting line but it's not going to be a game changer. Search re-targeting has more value IMO. - AJ Kohn
@Steven: Exactly! Air Miles. Grocery Cards. Credit Cards. Warranty Information. Rebate Information. (You'd be amazed how many people register their stuff!) It's a bit scary what can be obtained from credit bureaus as well. Facebook is the corner, the stoop - it's where people stop to talk and shoot the breeze. Not much gets sold there. I need to connect with them when they're walking past the mall. - AJ Kohn
Think about the data a company like or Quicken Online collects and compare it to the data that FB has on spending patterns and interests. They know enough (but currently don't use this info) to definitively tell you that you're spending $50 a month on BlockBuster, and could reduce it to $20 a month if you change to Netflix, saving you $30. - Ray Cromwell
How many more rounds of funding would you expect? It seems like you might get washed out by later rounds. - Todd Hoff
Everything you hear lately makes it sound like he's had to change that point of view about $15b if he wants capital. - Hutch Carpenter
Great discussion. Some points: the "No one can monetize this space" argument is false. As an advertiser (and a top 3 one at that), We are. And, quite well. #2--However, I wouldn't discount MySpace just yet. FaceBook is a wonderful white pages, it's possible MySpace will be a wonderful Yellow pages. We'll see. $6B is steep, but one difference this data has from the others mentioned (credit cards, gas cards, etc) is it's voluntarily provided--which is a much different data stream. - Alan Edgett
I would, in an instant. Many Facebook apps alone have 10 times the number of users Twitter has. - Jesse Stay
If they gave me a way to keep certain people unaware of my presence, I'd go back - Aaman (Clone of FF)
If I had the choice, I would rather invest in LinkedIn. Facebook has a phenomenal growth there are still a lot of open questions: You talk about businesses creating pages in facebook. This is probably a good idea in the sort term but in the long term as a company you probably want more control and ownership over your community and like AOL had to open up the walled garden, Facebook will have to do it to or someone else with do it for them. In that more open world, monetizing the graph will become even harde - Edwin Khodabakchian
wow...another around... - Kenyth
Interesting. Most seasoned entrepreneurs will tell you funding isn't an ideal expansion, that multiple rounds is not a good sign. Means it isn't making money. Social networks are nothing more than message boards with different user features - and have always been very hard to monetize. New competition is coming fast into the market from places none of y'all are looking at, and we're... more... - Patricia
Patricia: Google had multiple rounds. So did many other big Silicon Valley companies. - Robert Scoble
Chris: I know all about dilution. The reason Zuckerberg is so smart is he's taken a few rounds without getting diluted much at all. Got $300 million from Microsoft and only gave up, what, 1% or so of Facebook? That's brilliant. - Robert Scoble
Robert, yes, i know. it can be an asset. it just depends on if they can find a way to make money. google found it. let's hope facebook does too. i root for all businesses to succeed! - Patricia
still all I am seeing is the taking of money with no idea on how it'll generate money back, which is the whole point of investment. It seems to be the whole mantra of web apps "get users, then figure out how to make money" instead of the way every other industry functions. Do you really think this is a lasting way of doing business or will the web have to mature and show they can make money with their creations before investors will part with large sums of money? - alphaxion
when thinking about it, it is a particularly Valley way of doing business - I don't see this kind of investment internationally, they demand to see what will happen with their money and how it is likely to generate its own revenue instead of going cap in hand back to the investors. - alphaxion
and I do agree that this way of investing does lead to some really innovative things that ordinarily wouldn't stand a chance of making it. But, it is a big concern that the sites can't stand on their own without VC's propping them up by pouring round after round into them with nothing more than "it's gonna be huge!" as the reason. It'll only ever be huge if a cogent business plan exists, otherwise the only huge thing will be the bill VC's nurse at the end of it. - alphaxion
Facebook is finished - paul mooney
FB has the most chance of success because that's where non geeks go. It's the one service they want to use. - Richard A.
I don't get what non geeks has to do with FB's sucess ? - Asankhaya Sharma
Asankhaya: one word: "mainstream" - Claudio Cicali
Interesting to note Apple could pony up $6 billion for Facebook and still have some $18 billion left over. - Mike Reynolds
well i would not invest, fb has been for sometime now in a few years what ever profit could be made should have been made by now, the next big idea will kill fb forever, with the investment totally sunked in - briandsouza
UPDATE on this: Investors in Facebook are telling friends of mine that Facebook is not raising another round. It's possible that this is an opportunity that's being offered by someone who has stock already and is looking to get out. I'll try to find out more and report back. - Robert Scoble
I definitely would! - Pico Seno
Robert - whoa, "someone ... looking to get out." wow. yes, more info please. What is their rationale? - Susan Beebe
I wouldn't. I would rather invest in something simpler like twitter or friendfeed. - Siddharth Mitra
Thomas Hawk
Good Luck Scobleizer! -
Welcome to the World Milan William Scoble, 8
I met Robert at last year's IFA in Berlin for a short walk around the show floor. He's great guy and I wish him and his new venture all the best. And I agree that he should get back together with Rocky. I don't think they are done with their work yet... - Holger Eilhard
Robert has a long history of personal resiliency, so I am thinking that this is just a minor setback. I too want to wish him well. - Brian Sullivan
M, forwarding .. - Daniele Beta
Brian, I don't think of this as a setback for him at all. I think of this as a new and better opportunity for him. Like a lot of magazines Fast Company I'm sure was hit hard in this recent downturn. Robert needs certain things to thrive best. Rocky was a first rate editor. Robert's time is best spent doing what he does which is out and about interviewing people and having someone like Rocky to edit his stuff was important. Robert will do better someplace that is growing rather than cutting back. - Thomas Hawk
Robert you might want to tuck that away for your eulogy. Quite a tribute. - Todd Hoff
Todd: Thomas is one of the best people I know, it's a real honor to have him as a friend. - Robert Scoble
We all know Scoble will be a-ok in the days, weeks and years to come. I'm sure we're going to hear news about this awesome new service that pays by the kilobyte of awesome video you post, meaning Scoble will become very, very wealthy... - Mike Nayyar
Great post Thomas - I'm also looking forward to his next venture ... - Patrick Jordan
A very good article that helps us remember how much he contributes to our community. - Jonathon
Mike: actually that's a very interesting idea! :-) - Robert Scoble
We have to wait until SXSW? You're killing me! Whatever he does you know it's going to be good. - Bruce Lewis
Good luck Scoble. We met at a Social Media Club event in Phoenix a few years back and I have been following you ever since. Looking forward to your new adventures. - John Seiferth
Amen! You've got lots of helpers if you ever need them! - Scott Loftesness
What a wonderful article, and the pictures at Flickr were enjoyable as well. I wish the two of you would do a photowalk in San Diego so I could meet both of you in person! - Laura Zickus
Best of luck to you! May your next chapter be profitable to you in every possible way! - vicster.
Great post Thomas! - Kenton
That was a great summary of Scoble. I'm sure his next adventure will be something to watch. - Jeremy Brooks
The sentiment here about Robert (and folks like TH too) are right on - the level of transparency, integrity and work ethic we see sets the bar high for leaders in a community (a network of micro communities, as it might be put better). Think about Paul Harvey. An endearing, tireless pioneer who reached his community with the media/technology of his day for 70+ years. Scobleizer's journey, I believe, has just begun. - Micah
more time to spend with the Sean McBrides of the world. lucky "fast company" to be rid of a man and his destructive politics. - NoahDavidSimon
Really, really nice piece Thomas - Charlie Anzman
Fabulous post Thomas!! WOW!!!!!!! Lovely, moving and very well documented. Robert is an amazingly passionate, intelligent, smart and uber-technical guy that really has an astounding work ethic that never fails to deliver value in everything he does!! - you captured that very well with this blog post. :) Personally, I -like you- think he should link up with Friendfeed. that would be a PERFECT fit and a complete win-win relationship; however, I'd be concerned that FF might be too small for him. - Susan Beebe
The Economist
Dion Hinchcliffe - @frank_open showing an amazing MIcrosoft touch table retail app that scans barcodes through the tabletop. #We ... - @frank_open showing an amazing MIcrosoft touch table retail app that scans barcodes through the tabletop. #We ...
Watching "Shock Wave" on CBC and the next Cascadia Tsunami on the West coast is terrifying....Sumatra x 5!
Robert Scoble
Why Twitter is not for conversations. I will give you five reasons here:
1. If you get into something with one other person all your other followers will start complaining. - Robert Scoble
2. You can't "thread" and "capture" a conversation, like I can here. - Robert Scoble
3. Most people on Twitter that are joining lately are not people who participate. Compare @ev's followers to mine. - Robert Scoble
4. Twitter's expected usage is "what are you doing?" Not "what would you like to chat with your friends?" Whenever I try to break that usage I get tons of hate DMs and tons of unfollows. - Robert Scoble
5. You can't bundle up a conversation and save it for later, like you can with this one. (You can even permalink to this conversation and link to it from a Tweet, but you can't do that in Twitter itself). - Robert Scoble
Jonathan: Twitter is great for attracting attention to something, or just sending out a general update. For actually going into any detail at all about something, however, it's sorely lacking, and not just because of the 140 character limit. - Chris Charabaruk
Jonathan: Twitter is great for going back and forth about twice. If you want to get really involved it really really sucks. It pisses off all your other followers. DM's would be fun, but you can only DM people who follow you. Makes that worthless to use for a lot of people. - Robert Scoble
Re. to 4: Interestingly, I really enjoy those conversations that form on Twitter, I start click the "In reply to..." all the time and I end up seeing the twitter pages of new, interesting people. - Javier Altman
Finally, if you get to 1,000 followers or more (like many of my friends), you'll miss a lot of stuff and so the conversation might be disjointed. - Robert Scoble
@robert: there are other services ;) - Enrico
First one, impossible to keep track of conversations, 2 user engagement is low 3. Information value is negligible. - Richard A.
Javier: Twitter is an AWESOME discovery tool. Yes. But it is a CRAPPY conversation tool. - Robert Scoble
Robert. which is why I use twitter as I do. - Richard A.
That is true, as purely conversational in anything that is more than 1 or 2 messages in "depth" or "length" or whatever you wanna call it, it's quite terrible. Also, I find that if you follow too many people, then every single "conversation" is impossible to follow. I'm following 200 people, and that's hard to manage and follow some times. - Javier Altman
Agreed. Twitter is a great platform for spreading knowledge, not for idle back & forth chit chat. - David Lanning
Javier: Twitter is an AWESOME listening tool (especially if you have TweetDeck) because you can listen to lots of people on specific topics (thanks to search). It's also an AWESOME promotional tool (look how Mashable is using Twitter) but it's a horrid conversation tool. - Robert Scoble
David. Spreading knowledge? A hyperlink with no real description? No value to me. I want to know why someone is linking to something. - Richard A.
David: I wouldn't go that far. Out of 10,000 Tweets 9,996 are pretty stupid. Should I give you some examples? - Robert Scoble
I find I get a lot smarter by using Google Reader and following some people who put some thought into blogging. Friendfeed and twitter are NOT places I typically find deep thoughts unless it's from someone like Tim O'Reilly, Jay Rosen, or Dave Winer and they both are always linking out to interesting stuff. - Robert Scoble
Robert. I really like how twitter used to be "awesome" as a conversational tool in the past. Now though people have far less time for the site. - Richard A.
I definitely agree on that, Robert. Too bad Twitter has become so centralized and developed a "star system" so quickly... a ton of people with interesting things to say are simply lost in the cloud left in the wake of @kevinrose or @levarburton, you know? The big guys get listened to and usually have little of interest to say -- the smaller guys with actual content worth your time are never heard of. - Javier Altman
Javier, the little guys are the community builders, their engagement provides the dynamics the timeline needs to keep people engaged. - Richard A.
Threaded conversations are needed on Twitter. Becomes increasingly painful to understand what people are referring to sometimes - Paul Papadimitriou
Ryo: Twitter is way older and is further along the growth curve. Friendfeed also requires more work and more engagement. Look at all the icons on the people who are following me here (or that I'm following). Now compare those icons to the ones of the users in @ev's account. Not even close to the same kinds of users. I'd rather have one friendfeed user than 100 twitterers. Watch over the next year and you'll see what I'm seeing. - Robert Scoble
@paul: "Threaded conversations are needed" ... sure :) - Enrico
Javier: Sometimes what those big folk say is something people do want to hear, though. Levar Burton had a big tweetup in Toronto at the beginning of the week, with only an hour's notice on Twitter. Friend of mine got to meet him, blogged about it, and had his server crash under the load when Burton linked to the post in Twitter. But yeah, things of note from the celebs are usually pretty rare. (The post that caused the crash: ) - Chris Charabaruk
Conversation certainly is easier here both to follow and understand. Less chance of being unfollowed for saying something out of context or annoying new users. - Pete Gilbert
Chris: and Levar is one of the real celebrities who actually engages a community. I met him at CES. Really great guy. - Robert Scoble
If Twitter wants to be a great conversation tool, they should figure some way to spin out conversations from the tweet streams of the conversationalists (and I don't mean DMs). That they don't seem to be bothering with that is another strike against the service, at least in my books. - Chris Charabaruk
@Richard: I don't see how much community can be built when your word isn't reaching anyone -- that's how I feel twitter is working lately, what you say gets missed in the cloud. - Javier Altman
I think that we havn't to blame any service that offer a rest api, if there is some kind of lake in some feature then innovate, the main element to get in mind is to avoid redenduncy. - abdellah
@Chris: Maybe LeVar wasn't the best example, of course Geordi LaForge would have something interesting to say :D - Javier Altman
Javier I have written quite a few blog posts about twitter and community building because of how frustrated I am by how passive the site has become. All those I used to follow are now following thousands. They no longer focus on friends anymore. I agree with you. - Richard A.
@Chris: I think that if the web interface for Twitter somehow added the "in reply to's.." that are chained together onto a collapsible tab below a particular, original tweet on the timeline, the problem would be solved. - Javier Altman
@Richard: Exactly, that's why I actually went back the other day and started un-following people. I want to focus my attention, and hopefully that will trickle down to others in my stream. - Javier Altman
Brilliant and I was angry with you, silly me :). Twitter is more or less like a group IM. Mirco-blogging not so much. - Chirag Chamoli
Javier, Because I did the same thing I had 11 pages of conversation in twelve hours. I was quite happy with that result. :-), made twitter feel vibrant once more. I like feeling that people want to engage for more than one message at a time. - Richard A.
Martin Schecter says I'm wrong: -- but this is something he can not do on Twitter (join together lots of little pieces into one whole). Give it up, Twitter sucks for conversations and building knowledge on a topic. Quick, go to Twitter search and find all Tweets on this conversation. You can't. Don't even try. - Robert Scoble
Just Out Of Home: Friendfeed is totally different than Twitter. You haven't really used them if you believe that. - Robert Scoble
what about app that offer to create twitter users group?!! - abdellah
I actually see a use case for both. As a pure broadcasting channel Twitter is great, many people don´t even care about @replies. All they care about is that many people hear what they have to say. A conversation can and will never happen nicely on Twitter, not only because of the technical limitations but in my opinion also because of the different user structure. Twitter will stay popular but will also get polluted more and more. FF might be able to grow with a different user base towards something bigger. - Bastian
I personally find Friendfeed quite daunting. I like the simplicity of Twitter, it's "shoot and forget"-ness, so to speak. Friendfeed is more involved, which helps for conversations, but because everything is linked together in a feed, it can get unmanageable quite quickly. That said, Twitter is obviously imperfect as well. - Javier Altman
Bastian: exactly. Twitter is a "pure broadcasting channel." It's stunningly awesome for that. - Robert Scoble
Bastian, if you want subscribers get an RSS feed, easier to sort by source. - Richard A.
"Friendfeed is totally different than Twitter" - then I'd love to know why both continue to be thrown into battle against each other. Can't they just co-exist? - Shawn Farner
Javier: right. But that's why your engagement here will increase over time and on Twitter yours will decrease over time. By the way, Facebook is seeing a ton more engagement (per user) than Twitter is. Why is that? - Robert Scoble
Friendefeed is a web forum based around RSS aggregation. We use feedly to find the articles, say why we're think they're interesting and people decide whether to pay attention according to that. Twitter makes that much harder to do. - Richard A.
simply because they take it seriousely, remember friend real life one are watching - abdellah
Adding threading, groups, rich DM, would turn twitter into an IRC-meme product, useless. twitter is more a broadcasting product and needs to focus on search, trends, more than interaction - Jean-Charles VERDIE from Nambu
seriously the most ridiculous is their trend :) have you take time to see twitter trend? - abdellah
Robert: I think Facebook is a different creature altogether -- The engagement could stem from IM-ing, or maybe from the silly apps and quizzes you take in it. I personally don't like Facebook, I rarely go in there, and only update the status by having my Twitter linked to it. And I have to disagree, my engagement is still on Twitter more than Friendfeed, and I haven't seen any particular increase or decrease there. Sure, topics like this keep me refreshing the page, but that happens on Forums too :) - Javier Altman
Robert: Facebook is like Friendfeed. we share our personal images with friends (when not web celebs) share blog posts, comments about small things. It's a more intimate community. There is a lot of common ground. - Richard A.
Javier: you really need to sit down with me sometime and I'll show you why facebook is so much more engaging. It has nothing to do with what you're talking about. YOUR engagement might be high. I'm talking about the aggregate. - Robert Scoble
Robert: might be hard to do from Argentina to California, but I'm game :D But seriously, can you expound on the aggregate? - Javier Altman
i want more of my face to face friends here too, but they aren't so tech or early adopters. if they are here, not to participate - just stream. educating the general public on value here will make this stand out more. - Courtney Engle
Courtney: they will come. Twitter had the same feel to it two years ago. - Robert Scoble
Courtney. They're on Facebook though right? Just use the status messages as a form of twitter. It's just as versatile as twitter itself. - Richard A.
Robert Llewellyn is another one who's really into it as well he talks back to the twitterers (okay, he was teasing me about knowing about red dwarf 9, but you know) and he's big into blip. and to a point, yes, even bloody ashton and demi :P - Terry O'Fee
I don't get how you could make Twitter be threaded and still have it be Twitter, which is this rolling stream. You can have little micro convos on Twitter but it's easier to get into a fight precisely because most people on Twitter are on broadcast mode, dispensing with a pearl of wisdom they imagine their hundreds or thousands of fans merely want to docilely listen to, and they hate backtalk. Whoever gets the good backtalk app working will win. - Prokofy Neva
This is probably a noob question, but Plurk offers convo threading, grouping in the form of cliques so why aren't people talking about it as a viable option to the address the concerns listed above? - Tech Teacher
the interface :) - abdellah
Robert - I believe FB is more popular (not better, mind) because it's social networking at its simplest. it's wonderful for older parents who don't get twitter or friendfeed to sign up and add as much or as little as they want. perfect for the people who just want a small, family connection online.. - Terry O'Fee
personnaly I will not use it for just one reason the damn interface. - abdellah
@Kimberly: probably because Plurk didn't ever get critical mass of users. Without the userbase, you can have the best app, and never get anywhere. - Javier Altman
Kimberly: the UI of Plurk feels like a coloring book to me. I never took to it. The people who joined it at first also were not the kind of people who I wanted to have conversations with. Plus, friendfeed was way way way better at all this stuff than Plurk was and friendfeed was started by three superstars from Google. Plurk? I don't even know the people who started it. - Robert Scoble
terry, FB is more particular due to it rigid rule, compared to twitter or FF the process on mutual fellowing is a walk in fire. - abdellah
Funny that back when I started using Twitter in 2006, it was bad etiquette to have too many @'s in your stream. Now that seems to be inversed. - Sam Harrelson
plurk needs to get rid of that stupid karma crap as well. people on there "plurk" and reply so theyre top of their karma, not because they feel like it - Terry O'Fee
you deserve a kiss for the karma mention, I hate it - abdellah
Just Out Of Home: you are right. I'm sorry. - Robert Scoble
abdellah - mwah! - Terry O'Fee
Robert: I do remember early Twitter. It was still mostly status update. Too much of that now seems like they don't have much to contribute and aren't connecting. If Twitter users just do status updates it seems like they are self absorbed or lack contribution of some sort. They're still learning over there. Wait till their eyes open here. - Courtney Engle
I'm sorry, but how the hell would you be able to cope with the stream of information on Friendfeed (considering all that gets aggregated) if it had Twitter's mass? You'd be able to "follow" 20 people and that's it, otherwise you'd never be able to be involved with anybody. - Javier Altman
terry , mwah too (what about kiss feature here in FF) :) - abdellah
Richard: I turned the Twitter sync off as I want my FB wall to not be overwhelmed in my tweets. I keep it for friends to post there, reply, and engage. The sync would make it a mass broadcast firehose drowning those yet to know Twitter or FF, but I do have digg, greader, flickr, etc all synced back to my wall. - Courtney Engle
OT a little, do you ever see in the future a greater integration with gps services on phones with social networks?? imagine being able to see twitters from people in your area. able to contact or @ them?? imagine the advertisers, theyd have a field day! a computer twittering deals close by to where you are... - Terry O'Fee
Javier: you are absolutely wrong. I'm following 14,000 and 28,000 are following me here on friendfeed and it's FAR easier to deal with large numbers here than over on twitter. - Robert Scoble
@Terry isn't that called Loopt? - Javier Altman
terry, oh yes and it sound pretty good perspective, but there will be always a spammer here or elswere to make thing collapse, the main problem with twitter is that twitter bases how fragile and how risky to build on fragile foundation. - abdellah
Robert: Hmm, I see. It could very well be the way I interact with these type of service then. If Twitter only has 140 character lines as the only input and I already have a hard time keeping up with the people I follow, I can't imagine how chaotic it'd be to do that here, plus all the other aggregated info (digg, youtube, likes, dislikes, commenting, etc...) - Javier Altman
Courtney, I don't sync twitter with facebook. I tweet far too much. What I mean is that it's short messages people can comment on without having to join a new service :-) - Richard A.
Javier: because you aren't seeing the advantages of having lists, rooms, and the metadata that lets you hide lame stuff (you can hide all tweets that don't have a like, for instance). - Robert Scoble
Terry, Google latitude has been running non stop on my phone for three weeks by now, works fine. used it to meet one friend a few times already. - Richard A.
Javier: you should watch this video: - Robert Scoble
Robert and Javier. I hide all tweets that haven't been responded to. Works well for me. - Richard A.
i dont just mean advertising though, it would be awesome for twitter meetups for example. where is @(insertname), you could have them on a list to see where they are, see just tweets from people in the area as well, i mean out here in the sticks it would be useless, but in the cities it would be interesting. sure, we have brightkite now, but im thinking in a more twitter esque direction - Terry O'Fee
Richard: don't add more than 150 people to Latitude until version 2 comes out. I can't use it on my phone anymore cause I added 250. Sigh. - Robert Scoble
Terry. There's a service that's being developed in Switzerland that would represent that type of information, but still early days... have to see how it evolves. - Richard A.
Javier, have you explored the "Hide" feature and its "Hide entries like this" options? - Bruce Lewis from fftogo
latitude updates an area, mainly brightkite does the same. imagine posting an entry and the phone instantly updates where that post (or reply) has come from. there will still be privacy settings of course but it would put the social really into social media.. - Terry O'Fee
Robert: Yeah, then again that probably happens because the people I'm interested in the most, that would drive me to actually sit down and organize all this information into rooms, etc. isn't here on FF, but they are on Twitter and FB. I definitely see the superiority of FF in terms of app, I guess I'm just a bit apprehensive to its complexity? - Javier Altman
Robert: I'm not going to, but I have invited my direct family to follow and the occasional friend. Working fine for me. :-). I'm loving the service. - Richard A.
Javier: you aren't the only one. Friendfeed is too complex and they know it. Hopefully they'll have an answer to that soon, - Robert Scoble
@Richard: Dude, if a lot of people do what you do of hiding un-commented stuff, you'd miss, essentially, all of my content on FF. :D - Javier Altman
terry, now after the enthusiast plz make some dark side to the whole project, I mean how could this new service be bad or hurting or make people in danger,!! - abdellah
@Bruce: Not really, I probably should. But I just am not on FF enough to really explore it. I only pop in here when Robert posts this kind of thing that drives me here. - Javier Altman
Robert: Tweetdeck FF video was great. need to clean up my lists of people, conduct searches & filters. Sorting through the pile now could take a while. I just put most into homefeed. - Courtney Engle
محض اطلاع دوستان خارجگینی!!!!! گرووووووووووووووومپ - Moghamer
Javier, but I follow people on twitter with twhirl, so i don't need the same tweets in two places. I don't want to answer without the answer being read. - Richard A.
I'm in the same boat as Javier; the people I'm most interested in are on Twitter and FB, not FF. FF IS much better for having conversations yes, but they are often mostly about tech, food, memes and cats, so the point for some of us is moot. FF still needs a lot of work - you can't hide based on keywords; I may not want to see someone's posts on cats but I might want to see their other stuff, so filtering is very crude. - Sally Church
Javier, you're probably over-thinking it. Try to dumb yourself down a little. Say, "This is something I don't care to see", click Hide, and follow the prompts. I think FriendFeed might actually be easier for late adopters because early adopters have all these preconceived notions about how UIs are to be structured. - Bruce Lewis from fftogo
The big downside to FF over Twitter is that it requires a lot more work to make it work well and ends up with over-hiding, filtering or user scripts etc. If it's too much work it gets dispiriting. If you like tech, cats or memes then you will be in hog heaven here. - Sally Church
@Richard: That is perfectly understandable -- btw, say hi to Maggie for me :D - Javier Altman
Twitter is now the "classifieds" section of the social media newspaper. It's a good place to announce something. And you can start a lot of conversations with very little investment. But it is nearly impossible to carry on a dialog though the classifieds. And while you can write (or link to) a long-winded missive on Twitter, it just isn't suited for that. But sometimes, you just need to get a message out very cheaply. And Twitter does that job admirably. - Lorin Olsen
@Robert... Twitter : Megaphone = FF : Coffe ;-) - Luca Perugini
lorin, does this mean that twitter is a buzz machine injector?!! - abdellah
Javier, maggieconv? Will do. - Richard A.
@Robert ... Twitter as a Megaphone and FF as a Coffee ;-) - Luca Perugini
It's like a shouting on a market square. - Dimitar Vesselinov
I was showing my non-tech wife Twitter this week and right away she picked up on the difficulty of following conversations. - Paul Rodriguez
There's a reason they call Twitter "microblogging". It's like blogging. It's hard to have an extended multi-way conversation with trackbacks. - Bruce Lewis from fftogo
Twitter is see current threads and Friendfeed is to talk about them - Kim Landwehr
People who think twitter is about microblogging are the ones I don't follow. - Richard A.
richard, so twitter is about what?!! - abdellah
@Richard: Ok, then that brings me to a question: what is the proper use for Twitter then? I share interesting news stories from Google Reader, comment on life, use it as a cathartic tool on on occasion, comment on other people's tweets... Is that all that Twitter is, or am I missing something? - Javier Altman
@abdellah I used to think of it as a multiplatform chat too. - Richard A.
richard, yes it can but we haven't to do because we can. this is what bring all the pb people travesty the use of the service if they do using the api it would be intelligent and a source of innovation, but they do using the original service what make thing go out of hand. - abdellah
Twitter has suffered from having so man new users that don't know what works and doesn't. As a result the early adopters have really decreased how often they use it. - Richard A.
Twitter is the conversational equivalent of playing phonetag but it is definitely more lightweight than FF. - Stephan Miller from Friend Deck
stephan, the word playing resume the whole really :) - abdellah
These are valid points. Never thought Twitter is an extended conversation tool. Maybe with new features like targeted tweets to different groups it can become one. It's still early days for them when you listen to Evan Williams. - Joe Buhler
it doesn't have to be "all conversation" or "no conversation". Twitter can be for "some kinds of conversations" or "somewhat for conversation". Or you can endlessly argue that "no it isn't for conversation" and "yes it is for conversation". It's in between. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. - Stephanie Booth from twhirl
Evan Williams is the last person in the world I'll listen to when it comes to twitter. I'd rather speak to actual users of the service. - Richard A.
I am new to Friend Feed, but not Twitter. Thanks for the lesson in FF! - Rachel Levy
I think the big issues are #2 and #5. While search.twitter allows you to view a conversation between two people, it's far from efficient. When twitter fixes this problem, it will be a much better conversation platform. - David Spinks
Both have their uses - and Twitter can definitely use an upgrade. I can see more journalists type people (like yourself) get more benefits from FriendFeed. - Chris Gieger
Robert, that commonmistakesblog entry is weird. If you need to be told how to have conversations "correctly", then there is something wrong with the service. - Andy Bakun
Twitter as a broadcasting channel only makes sense if you either 1) have a lot of followers, or 2) have followers who retweet all your tweets. This is actually no different than having a blog. - Andy Bakun
Proof is in the pudding. Would *this* conversation happen on Twitter? No. Twitter was built as a status update service. It does that nicely. Conversations is a square peg being fit into a round hole. - AJ Kohn
I think Friendfeed should add this list functionality into its posts. It is annooyin when people start commenting before the list is done. - Sweyn Venderbush from twhirl
Again I think Scoble is trying to make Twitter what he wants instead of what it is. No problem with that I guess. Twitter is great for general broadcasts and as someone else said a few quick back and forths. Those are still conversations. Just short ones. What Robert wants are discussions. Which Twitter is not for...Twitter is great for the mobile crowd who like to do as they go. There are other forums for those who like to sit at their desk and have long community discussions. - Sidney
@Andy I think too many people who are currently into Social Media (the tech crowd) try to look at Twitter as what they can get out of it on a business level. I think it is much easier to say, "Hey I'm hitting lunch at this place who's joining me?" and it goes to all my friends instead of having to SMS everyone. This is functionality the non-techs are using it for. It's useful. Saves time and isn't meant for long drawn out discussions. - Sidney
Something else struck me about that commonmistakesblog post... it suggests you put context in all your tweets in order to not piss of your followers who don't know what the hell you're talking about. By the time you put in context (repeating what was said already so people can jump in the middle), and @replies, the 140 character limit becomes even further limited. - Andy Bakun
Andy: +100. - Robert Scoble
honestly I like plurk better than twitter.I don't check friendfeed and reply to stuff that often. - Logan Lindquist
Logan: that's cool. I just never got into Plurk. The UI there is too inefficient for me and too goofy. - Robert Scoble
yea I agree the UI could be more mainstream, but the features and community are much better - Logan Lindquist
Logan: I'll give it another try. Everytime I've gone there I didn't like the community. It shows that if you don't see people you recognize you'll not like the service. - Robert Scoble
wow, im surprised that there are still people who try to enforce rules to tools like twitter,how incredibly naive. twitter is a tool, people use tools the way they want and need to, despite what you, or i tell them, its this that forms the basis of human and techno-evolution...if twitter is being used by people for conversations then it obviously meets that need at some level. its this evolution of technology that drives (or should drive) successful product and service developments, - john
Kind of makes you wonder what made Twitter take off in the first place?, Plurk, Pownce, Jaiku......Is Twitter really that much better? Is it the name? Viral "marketing"? I tend to lean toward the name. I fear that FriendFeed will never catch on simply because of the name. It's not "glitzy". Neither are, plurk, pownce, or jaiku. I'd much rather support because it's open source. - Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ
@slayerboy: twitter's power is a global namespace which allows for interesting social dynamics: you want to know what your friends are doing, you want to share cool experiences with them, you want to follow people you admire. Twitter sux at conversations but they are *very* good at those other use cases and they are dead simple. That and they were able to attract some of the most vocal bloggers and social media advocates (Robert included)! - Edwin Khodabakchian
robert: well of course if the people you follow don't use it then its not much use. its funny how everyone hates twitter and they keep using it. its like the myspace of mico-blogging. - Logan Lindquist
Absolutely agree with #5 Robert - "5. You can't bundle up a conversation and save it for later, like you can with this one. (You can even permalink to this conversation and link to it from a Tweet, but you can't do that in Twitter itself)" I find myself getting more and more frustrated with NOT being able to follow a conversation on Twitter... and esp. a conversation between 2 others... more... - Deanna Belle Govoni
That gives me some inspiration, Deanna. I'd like to see a feature on friendfeed that lets you "lock" an entry to just being commented by a few people, but still be public. You could do interviews and debates this way. It would be asynchronous because new activity floats it to the top where you can see it again. The most recent stuff is the stuff that shows by default (with the previous... more... - Andy Bakun
I guess you could do the same thing with a restricted access room, but they don't have the same exposure, and there's less chance of it cropping up randomly. - Andy Bakun
@Andy Bakun - Yep, the less clicks the better and the less CLUTTER the better - have you seen this post yet?: - too much noise is frustrating, who has time to sift through it all? Your idea is interesting,do you mean that you'd want to be able to "flag" comments from specific... more... - Deanna Belle Govoni
That's a damn good idea, Deanna, the non-focused comments being collapsible. This would help keep things on topic, keep the focus on the target participants, but not restrict other people from participating. It's threads like this one, with 156 comments, that show the power of the FF medium and presentation and UX. Some minor tweaks and there are additional possibilities. - Andy Bakun
Lorin, good comparison the classifieds and trying to have a conversation through them. Even better would be a comparison to the "missed connections" section of the classifieds. - Andy Bakun
Anthony Citrano
Jindal Admits Katrina Story Was False | TPM - http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpoi...
Jindal Admits Katrina Story Was False | TPM
"...the key elements of Jindal's story were that he was in Lee's office during the crisis itself, and that his support for the sheriff helped ensure the rescue went ahead. Neither of those things was true." [So, not only was he talking like a 10 year old addressing a pack of 5 year olds, but he was lying as well? Wow.] - Anthony Citrano
<sigh> The best and brightest they have to offer... do you think conservatives should give up on this sorry lot and start a new party? - David HC Soul
Apparently yes, David :-/ - Richard Walker
John Derbyshire, writing about talk radio, in his piece in the American Conservative said: "Conservatives have never had, and never should have, a problem with elitism. Why have we allowed carny barkers to run away with the Right? " [ ] but the problem goes further than that, as this debacle, from the "banner carrier" of choice of the... more... - David HC Soul
In indirect response to this story and to all the other amazingly rock stupid things the Republicans are doing these days, I wrote this post: if you want to really get annoyed, go to and do a search for "#tcot" some of the most braindead statements will come up. Truly awe inspiring. - thepete
@thepete, let's make that clickable :) - Richard Walker
Hawt conservative ladies here (Smart Girl Politics): - Richard Walker
Ohhh Richard, after looking at those pages, I was confused. I thought you said “hot”. - Anthony Citrano
Haha, thanks, Richard, for linking to that absurd #tcot search. Now anytime we want to get aggravated, we just need to click! - thepete
Louis Gray
Soros sees no bottom for world financial collapse -
Soros sees no bottom for world financial collapse
""We witnessed the collapse of the financial system," Soros said at a Columbia University dinner. "It was placed on life support, and it's still on life support. There's no sign that we are anywhere near a bottom."" - Louis Gray from Bookmarklet
And what's the bad news? - Michael Fidler
This is very disturbing. :( - Susan Beebe
Michael, the bad news is: we are living inside this system that is currently on life support. - Detlef Cordes
Soros is definitely more entertaining than Buffett for his sound bytes. - Cole Jolley
That's what scares me most. It's not a recession/depression - it's finding the bottom to this thing so people can quit worrying so much about how bad it's going to get and start thinking towards how to get better from it. - Ken Stewart | ChangeForge
Why would we wait to reach the bottom before we start fixing it? Are we that lazy/masochistic? - deusdiabolus
But what's the fix? We are living inside a system on life support, with multi organ failure - but to we have a diagnosis? Do we know the exact causes? Money glut? Savings glut? - Detlef Cordes
there is no fix, the system has failed. the replacement is already in place, but the banks and brokerages wont acknowledge this because they are not part of the new system, of course politicians and governments will continue to fund proejcts and electoral promises with hollow instruments of credit for a few quarters yet, this too will rich societies and governments are already... more... - atul abraham from twhirl
atul abraham, please help me: I don't see that replacement. Where is the real collateral? Real estate? Short term credit? For whom? The US government? - Detlef Cordes
I'm in Atul's camp. Sounds like the solution is increased ownership to step in where decay is most severe. - Mike Reynolds
Hey postlinearity. Would you like to share what this new paradigm is about? - Detlef Cordes
And yes the other paradigm is that people will be less likely to overspend. - Mike Reynolds
I don't understand the point of the article. So tell us something we DON'T know? "Experts" that don't offer solutions or directions <<< - Mona Nomura
Mona, you might find this article interesting and disturbing: - Aaman (Clone of FF)
I've been sharing Putin articles since I started FriendFeed but no one seems to find them interesting. South America is another to watch, too. This is nothing new (to me). - Mona Nomura
here is how i see it - 1 ) consumerism based on credit write -offs = NOT GOOD 2 ) govt.s ( like the US and the UK govt ) issueing credit notes dependent on a workforce out of work, dependent on brands that arent solvent, dependent on home prices that nobody can afford, isnt only plain crazy, it is suicidal -- TARP and the entire stimuls package is life - support to a body that has... more... - atul abraham from twhirl
post cut short - thats cool - Detlef, just use google its all out there, thnx, - atul abraham from twhirl
The US govt. are a bunch of morons. I'm still stuck on WHY they approved a bail-out for AIG. They have 10is subsidiaries they could've sold off. And what's going on with small businesses? No love for them, either. Whatever - I choose not to care since they're so dumb it's annoying. - Mona Nomura
The US (and perhaps other countries) has been living well beyond our means for nearly 30 years. No one quite understands how the advent of easy credit and a "me, now" culture has created a massive ponzi scheme of our own making. One Trillion dollars in US revolving debt! It's simply not sustainable and the tipping point has finally come. Stimulus is like spitting into a hurricane. This is going to take years, not months. - AJ Kohn
AJ - it's what our country was built on. We're a capitalistic society filled with the "me me me" mentality. - Mona Nomura
@Mona: True. But we didn't give that society the ability to indulge in "me me me" until the late 70s. Credit Cards, easy credit and lower taxes all created an army of Gordon Geckos who believed over-extending was the new American way. - AJ Kohn
RIght - so it's intertwined. It's only natural to be greedy and only a matter of time until those desires were enabled. Reagan was one of the worst things to happen to this country. Opening up trade? Are you kidding me? Ugh, I'm sorry but I have to hide this thread. Thinking about this is going to ruin my day. - Mona Nomura
@aj: actually, as i understand it, credit cards are just the encapsulation of a concept that began right after WWII: buying things on "time." in order to get the economy going again after the war, banks and retailers introduced this concept. before then, other than homes, people didn't usually buy things unless they could pay in cash. the credit card just simplified this buy now, pay later process...which is now abused. - .LAG liked that
@ LAG: teh way to kick start the " world economy " post WW2 was to make massive consumerism easier, it wasnt just credit, it was malls coming to your bakyard, it was instant shipping, it was Asian sweatshops, it was Africas un ending need for weaponary leading to massive defence contracts, ... it was a blunt thrust at world dominance that American Inc. screwed up royally : ). WMDs in Iraq and all. - atul abraham from twhirl
@atul... i agree: making mass consumerism easier was the post WWII goal. and i think that the massive financial problems that we're dealing with right now ask the next question: what do you do after mass consumerism stops working? i won't completely blame America for this: the leaders in your Asias and Africas and Iraqs, and elsewhere, are equally complicit. - .LAG liked that
@ .LAG - to me its very simple - a Vietnamese or Indian, or Chinese software programmer ( my profession ) will not only charge 10 % of a programmer in the EU ( where i live and work ) but also TRULY kick ass. helping Asia and Africas´ poorer parts to compete internationally will lay the foundation for a new generation of companies that do " micro-profits " for each employee, not massive... more... - atul abraham from twhirl
errata : time, PS : its half past 8 pm here, i have a Monday that starts at 5 am tmrw. saving the wolds ass has GOT to wait. good night. - atul abraham from twhirl
our society is based on debt, what did they think would happen? don't borrow money you don't have, simple. - Adam Singer
Get rid of fractional reserve banking... move to full reserve banking..issue greenbacks to grow the economy without increasing debt. Printing money at the same time you raise the reserve requirement for banks to lend money from 10% to 100% cancels out the risk of hyperinflation. - Patty Seybold
that Putin-on-white-horse-in-Davos story ... puhleeeeeeeeese... ask mr.Khodorkovsky, he will tell you rest-of-story - right after (and IF ever) gets out, stripped from billion estate... - A. T.
he's right - Bob Sonin
@postlinearity so there's no hope for US economy then? Millions aren't likely to change unless in face of major catastrophe... economic or some other kind. - andrei_c
David HC Soul
Proposition: social structure is that which makes pure economic theories fail.
I came across it as a student exercise in "General Principles of Systems Design" (Weinberg & Weinberg; Dorset House 1968) - the exercise is to tackle the argument first from the perspective of a social scientist then from the perspective of an economist -- I've been bouncing back and force since encountering it... - David HC Soul
On the other hand - "the First Regulatory Aphirism: It is not necessary to enter the black box to understand the nature of thefunction it performs." {Stafford Beer: The Heart of Enterprise} - David HC Soul
David, Mark, I got lost in definitions! What means social structure? What means pure economic theory?! - Hayk
Any system based on the assumption that the human actors that compose it act entirely in rational (especially if this is then defined as self interest) seems doomed to failure - it simply doesn't have the requirite variety to match the 'real life' behaviour of the system. - David HC Soul
Mark: I would go with the aphorism that "the Purpose Of a System Is What It Does (POSIWID)" over a belief that the actors in the system can reliably describe the real outcome of a system from what they have 'designed' the system to accomplish. - David HC Soul
So we can understand a society by understanding the outcome of the Society much more reliably than by looking at individual actions inside a rather muddy (if not black) box. If society says it wants onething; but an entirely different thing is produced, and yet no change is attempted then what really is the purpose - what is being accomplished or the rhetoric about what is desired? - David HC Soul
Exactly. The purpose of this would seem to be spur the purchase of a couple more "vente" sized personal stimulants per week than it is to revive infrastructure or capital movement to get the whole economy moving...or if really cynical one might opine that it is to make sure the recovery is delayed. - David HC Soul
Mark... I missed your point on what we could observe (it wasn't "there" when I posted my "posiwid" comment) - you put the prime point succinctly. - David HC Soul
Stowe Boyd
"Change never begins from the top down. It begins from the bottom up." -
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