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beersage › Comments
Year in Beer (short & sweet) | Slashfood - http://www.slashfood.com/2009...
"With the country knee-deep in its nastiest recession in 70 years, Americans needed stiff drinks more than ever. But instead of drowning their economic sorrows with dirt-cheap Coors Light or Bud, droves of drinkers snagged six-packs, 22-ounce bombers and champagne-corked bottles of craft beer."
- beersage
from Bookmarklet
And you thought FriendFeed was doing bad - check out Google Reader:
Paul Harvey, Mitchell Tsai, practicehacker and 59 other people liked this
Regarding FriendFeed's numbers, be sure to see here: http://staynalive.com/article...
- Jesse Stay
I forget to use Google Reader. I prefer FF
- Mike Nencetti
Also see: http://friendfeed.com/jessest...
- Jesse Stay
Isn't that because the URL most people use for Google Reader is http://www.google.com/reader ?
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken is right. I always use http://www.google.com/reader. You can also get feeds on http://www.google.com/ig/ Jesse, it's time for you to retire from stats mayhem.
- Louis Gray
Remember, 65.4% of all stats are made up on the spot.
- Ken Sheppardson
i use google.com/reader too
- Jeff (the メガマクダジ of FF)
Web 1.0 is to Web 2.0 as Alexa is to Compete.
- AJ Kohn
There will also be users coming from other countries like us here (google.ca/reader).
- AJ Batac
Louis, I'm simply sharing the same type of stats you did with FriendFeed. Who shall retire first?
- Jesse Stay
Louis shared stats for FriendFeed using the wrong URL?
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, http://reader.google.com is how I access Google Reader
- Jesse Stay
See how it redirects to www.google.com/reader?
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, my point is Louis's stats mean as much as mine do - there are way more factors that go into this, I agree
- Jesse Stay
Jesse, without demeaning you personally, this is false and ridiculous. FriendFeed is a domain, a specific one, and I chose the primary domain. Google Reader is a subdomain or directory, and you chose the one that, as you show, nobody uses. The Alexa data you showed for FriendFeed illustrated something that nobody is experiencing. This isn't gamesmanship. It's just wrong, again.
- Louis Gray
I have a hard time understanding the fights and points Jesse chooses to get into.....just baffling.
- Matthew DeVries
So let's take this constructively - what's a better way of comparing the two if http://reader.google.com is a bad way?
- Jesse Stay
Neither.... it's apples and oranges.
- Jason Williams
Jason - considering some use FriendFeed as a replacement for Google Reader it's not apples and oranges - they're competition.
- Jesse Stay
Really? Why on earth would anyone use FF over Reader? FF complements Reader but shouldn't supplant it. Is there really a constructive way to read rss feeds here?
- Jason Williams
Jason, many people do that - it always comes out when Scoble is threatening to leave Reader. It's also why your FriendFeed stats now show up with your Feedburner stats.
- Jesse Stay
looks like we gotta get louis to work more hours to get that chart moving in the right direction!
- Allen Stern
Amen Allen (that's the spirit)! I'd love to see more stability and more focus on core functionality, not the social features. More stats, more organizational tools, more sharing tools. Better UI. Less bugs. I would use it more if that were the case.
- Jesse Stay
Give me a better way to manage thousands of items a day and I'll read thousands of items a day. For now I've had to reduce my use due to how bulky and hard-to-manage it all is.
- Jesse Stay
for the record i rarely to never use google reader.
- Allen Stern
when friendfeed shows me full content RSS feeds instead of just title links, let me know. until then, I'll keep using Google Reader. that's the same notion that twitter is a replacement for it. I get it but it doesn't work for me.
- Bill Kinney
Jesse knows that I read more than 1,000 items per day and am connected to more than 1,000 people via shared item feeds. The graph above is not valid. Google Reader is a great complement to FriendFeed, and always has been. It's the vast majority of my feed. Reader is also, very flexibly, able to share to different sites, including Twitter and Facebook.
- Louis Gray
Yes, Bill. Jesse is just grumpy today. :) He knows better than to post data without any substance and try and get a faux argument going. He also is tempting me to post a SocialToo traffic chart and compare it to Twitter. :)
- Louis Gray
i think that louis and jesse need a "time out" - both of you to your respective corners for a juice box
- Allen Stern
No way, Allen! Not when there are great injustices in this world! :)
- Louis Gray
louis i just sat through 4 hrs of city council hearings at city hall - not once did google reader or friendfeed come up :)
- Allen Stern
Jesse, the difference is that Readers traffic isn't dependent on who else is also using it. As much as Google would like it to be, it's not a social tool. I can get my FF feed in Reader but not vice versa. Do you really get your "news" from FF? It's the same thing with Twitter. People try to make it a RSS replacement but it isn't no matter how much you want it to be. 140 characters might be ok for links and quick social commentary but in depth news, not so much.
- Jason Williams
Allen, but they did mention a series of tubes, at least in passing I'm sure :)
- Micah Wittman
*thinks of how to talk Jesse down from the ledge...* Jesse, Hi :) At best you are criticizing conventional wisdom web statistics in general and mixing it with a clearly flawed swipe at Reader. ### Now, carefully, come back from the precipice and live to fight another day.
- Micah Wittman
You guys are all proving my point - that this argument is just as crazy a claim as this one is here: http://friendfeed.com/louisgr... - you can't trust stats
- Jesse Stay
I use Feedly, which is off the back of Google Reader
- Ian May
Jesse, nobody has proven your point. The only point that has been made is that you made a mistake and tried to draw a parallel, and you failed.
- Louis Gray
Of course you can trust stats, Jesse. You just have to understand how they were collected, what they mean, and not try to use them to support some completely unrelated hypothesis. I've seen two graphs of US and global FriendFeed visitor stats that support two different statements... that US usage is down and global usage is up, respectively. The graph you've created for reader.google.com is irrelevant and immaterial, for reasons given above.
- Ken Sheppardson
I could be wrong, but a certain someone who pronounced FF as dead cited that new features in GR were going to kill it. Just sayin'. Also just sayin' - I'm with Louis on this one. The combination of Google Reader and Friendfeed have changed the game for me, bigtime.
- jcunwired
Surely not.
- Will Higgins™
I'm probably in the minority but I have replaced Google Reader with FriendFeed. Pretty much for discussions like this one. I'm not sure I find the same value in Reader, I tend to bookmark and re-visit the same sites anyway. FriendFeed brings something to the table that a bookmark just doesn't. Reader, not so much. At least not for me.
- Mark Davidson
from BuddyFeed
We need a UFC match between Louis Gray and Jesse Stay. The 9-lettered names of mayhem!
- beersage
I'd like to append my last post with, I still scan GR, so the previous comments about using GR and FF together as a powerful combination--in practice, if not in heart--I'm in agreement with.
- Mark Davidson
from BuddyFeed
See what happens when I stayed in GReader (and some Twitter) all day, I missed a good thread. I read/skim a little over 1,000 posts a day, I'm not sure if I read more than Louis (42,597 items in last 30 days) but it's my information center. Friendfeed use to be my place for discussions around the news, since engagement has dropped here (for me at least), I've moved back to Twitter for a fraction of that engagement (FB for friends/coworkers/family).
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
I never knew there was a reader.google.com
- Richard Lawler
Almost all of Google's (non-acquired) properties can do both whatever.google.com and google.com/whatever which is very smart actually.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
On the subject, I must thank Louis, Jesse and many others that act as filters on GReader BTW. When I don't have time to go through the bulk, these guys help bring the cream to the top. I try to do my part in filtering for others but I feel that it's a team effort to bring the signal to others as automated filters aren't smart enough (yet).
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Funny, I cut back on my usage of both services and the graph goes down. You can blame Scoble now. I don't use Google Reader anymore.
- Robert Scoble
Don't talk about yourself in the third person.
- Mark
I blame Scoble for the drop in the Twitter chart as well then. <smirk>
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
My use has gone down significantly and I'm seriously looking for the perfect solution to replace it. Hoping Seesmic or Tweetie or Tweetdeck do that soon. See: http://staynalive.com/article...
- Jesse Stay
I now know Louis's Kryptonite - criticize Google Reader ;-)
- Jesse Stay
Robert, please don't leave Gmail, because I still need that. Thanks.
- Mark Davidson
from BuddyFeed
Jesse - I agree with your April blog post 100%. I also want to mention that Google Alerts is also a helpful tool for monitoring blog posts. (And without a doubt, most of us use it.)
- Mark Davidson
from BuddyFeed
Jesse, kryptonite would weaken someone if it were their personal poison. I am not weakened by your inaccuracies and stubbornness. :)
- Louis Gray
Anyone know what Feedly's numbers are??
- Roberto Bonini
it is still my best organic conversational real time tool...
- Yann Ropars
Feedly is actually down 11% in Nov as well. http://siteanalytics.compete.com/feedly...
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Is this a trend?? The holiday season and all?? What about Feedburner stats?? If RSS usage (i.e for RSS clients) is in decline (unlikely) it would show up there.
- Roberto Bonini
manieles: feedly's content is generated dynamically in the browser so the metrics you are pointing to are just metrics of our blog (most users download feedly from the mozilla (and now chrome) sites. 2009 was a good year for feedly: we grew 1,527% from Dec 08 until Dec 09. http://twitter.com/edwk...
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Ah, I guess that makes my comment above moot. There goes that theory.
- Roberto Bonini
Sorry Edwin, just like reader.google.com the compete numbers don't show the story of true use.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
No problem Mark (it happens a lot). Roberto: Feedly is still relatively a niche service compared to Friendfeed and Google Reader so your theory could be correct. I do not have visibility into the Google Reader usage information but I can say that the underlying infrastructure keeps on getting better and innovating at a very fast pace. They have the foundation for a distributed...
more...
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Sounds like what I said about FriendFeed :-)
- Jesse Stay
Jesse: Friendfeed is down but they are not dead. It all depends on if Facebook will decide to invest and move the service forward or not. If they do not, at some point Twitter and Facebook will have a super set of the friendfeed features and at that point their will be no turn around possible. Friendfeed sold out too early.
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Edwin, Jesse is having an off day. Feedly is doing fantastically. Google Reader continues to have the #1 position in RSS and things are flourishing with their social features. FriendFeed has great technology and a fantastic community, but stalled momentum. Jesse should be in better form in about 5-7 days.
- Louis Gray
Jesse are you sick *again*? I told you to eat more bacon! :-)
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Would be interesting to see a metric that measures total number of posts having comments and likes versus total posts and compare that to the "glory days" of Friendfeed. How much different is the engagement now?
- Steve
Louis is basing his "FriendFeed is down" on faulty stats - that's the point of this thread. FriendFeed's just fine: http://staynalive.com/article... - I agree Reader and RSS are fine. So is FriendFeed.
- Jesse Stay
Steve, you can always use FriendFeed's advanced search to find 100 comments and likes posts.
- Louis Gray
Jesse, discussing this with you is getting boring. That post was wrong and based on data even worse than the public information I used.
- Louis Gray
Nothing on the Internet is dead until the servers are unplugged and the information is not cached elsewhere. There could be 1 unique user on a site and it still could be very useful for that one person.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Mark, that's correct. I covered that when I said I would still find value if I were the last FriendFeeder. What's frustrating about this nonsense of a thread is that Jesse made a mistake with his graph and continues to stand by it.
- Louis Gray
As did Louis (I'm not standing by this graph - I was making a point), and he continues to stand by his (about FriendFeed traffic being down)
- Jesse Stay
Because it is down.
- Louis Gray
Louis, if you think my post is wrong, how about a post proving my points wrong
- Jesse Stay
:-)
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
It is a waste of time. It also does not benefit me or the community to make high visibility of negativity around this site. That's why I posted what I did here previously, also knowing it tends to be written about and spun by other blogs.
- Louis Gray
I don't think Louis believes his graph is wrong - who's the stubborn one? ;-)
- Jesse Stay
Congratulates Jesse and his graph for making my best of day on FF. I am not a fan of Google reader. the graph looks accurate to me and the feedback I see of GR.
- Mike Nencetti
Jesse: I am confused. It seems that the point you are trying to make is that graphs are wrong in general and that both friendfeed and RSS are fine. Is that correct?
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Edwin, correct
- Jesse Stay
Jesse, I believe that Compete.com data is not perfect, but it is the best publicly available data that we have. I also believe that the trends it portrays about this specific site are 100% accurate. Your data showing Google Reader at zero is laughable and an embarrassment to your reputation.
- Louis Gray
Mike, this didn't make "best of day". It made "most obtuse of the day". :)
- Louis Gray
Jesse: which metric would you use to determine if friendfeed as a service is up or down?
- Edwin Khodabakchian
It is not showing it at 0 - it is showing it at very low.
- Jesse Stay
Google Reader's traffic is hidden within www.google.com's data. Dare I add iGoogle for RSS feeds into that picture as well. However, Friendfeed's traffic is not hidden (for US Traffic) in Compete's numbers.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Jesse relied on Alexa data (which is the ugly stepsister of Compete.com), and he suggested that Bret Taylor's graph showing a higher percentage of international users suggested growth, when, more accurately, it portrayed that US visitors fell away at a dramatic rate.
- Louis Gray
Louis: May be you and Jesse are looking at this from different angle and are both right
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Nah. Edwin, I will always support good data. :) This is bad data.
- Louis Gray
Quantcast shows a similar decline. Every service that is respected shows a decline. http://www.quantcast.com/friendf...
- Louis Gray
Louis, I never denied yours was based on US data. My point was FriendFeed was not down, which you claimed it to be.
- Jesse Stay
May be Friendfeed has a lot more persian users which are less active but nevertheless users. But over all Friendfeed has a lot less momentum and engagement because the early adopters have moved to twitter
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Jesse, I continue to claim that global traffic worldwide, including US and non-US traffic is down, period. And even if you were right, turning this into Orkut or Friendster is not a thing to be proud of.
- Louis Gray
Jess: the problem is that down is not as important as momemtum and innovation.
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Louis, again, you're showing the wrong state re: Quantcast - click the "all" link and you'll see something more reflective. They're down in the short-term (at least in the US), but not in the long-term.
- Jesse Stay
There' nothing wrong with Alexa from a world view. Just don't mix numbers between Compete, Quantcast and Alexa. Compete clearly shows the US usage has dropped.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Louis, I never turned this into a comparison of Orkut and Friendster - where is this coming from?
- Jesse Stay
Jesse, the short term is the start of the long term. You know better than this.
- Louis Gray
I am. Those are sites dominated by non-US visitors, contrasted with Facebook and Twitter.
- Louis Gray
Louis, I disagree the short-term is the start of the long term
- Jesse Stay
Jesse: One simpler question for you: do you think that there is a chance for friendfeed to regain momentum and flourish without an engineering team behind it?
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Edwin, absolutely, but I think there will be an engineering team behind it eventually
- Jesse Stay
and there is an engineering team behind it currently, or it would not be able to handle the current traffic.
- Jesse Stay
Hmm. Do you have another example to point us to? Where will the engineering come from eventually?
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Edwin, Facebook
- Jesse Stay
Friendfeed is clearly transforming. It may gain momentum for a while until 'other services' catch up. However once a better wheel is made...
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
I think that you are fooling yourself
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Edwin, absolutely not - there are numbers to prove it - whether it's still FriendFeed or transforms into Facebook, it will still be around, and serving way more than it is now.
- Jesse Stay
Facebook wanted the brainpower and that brainpower is not integrated into other facebook projects
- Edwin Khodabakchian
That brainpower is still keeping FriendFeed running at the same time
- Jesse Stay
Here again. I think that you are fooling yourself
- Edwin Khodabakchian
That brainpower still believes in FriendFeed
- Jesse Stay
Jesse, I would listen to Edwin, and Matthew Davies, and almost everyone else in this thread.
- Louis Gray
Facebook is in a hyper competitive space, those brains are working 150% on facebook projects
- Edwin Khodabakchian
You can clearly see that the FF team is porting features into FB, they are attempting to have a friend of a friend system similar to FF. IF THEY SUCCEED, FB has become Friendfeed.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Jesse, Bret is VP of Products at Facebook and working on Connect and the dev community which reaches 100x+ more people than FriendFeed does.
- Louis Gray
Louis I didn't say FriendFeed wouldn't transform into Facebook. I did say it wasn't going away and it would continue growing.
- Jesse Stay
But it is not growing, and that entire argument is dead right there.
- Louis Gray
It is growing, your argument is dead.
- Jesse Stay
I think that you are right that it is going to stay (that is a low hanging fruit) and it might grow in some geographies (like it does in Iran because of the network effect) and because it was ahead of its time in terms of conversation, the erosion will take longer but there is no doubt that with no engineering, it is a dead end.
- Edwin Khodabakchian
AOL is not growing but it's hardly dead. Wait, I'm on Louis's side on this...
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
AOL is investing massively to survive
- Edwin Khodabakchian
AOL is apples and oranges - if Facebook stops growing you can start comparing it to AOL.
- Jesse Stay
Mark, that's fine. I don't think there are sides. There's what's correct, and whatever Jesse is doing.
- Louis Gray
Or whatever Louis is doing - he seems to think he's correct, which he's not (now this is getting repetitive)
- Jesse Stay
Too bad the friendfeed team did not believe in friendfeed the same way Jess believes in Friendfeed!
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Edwin, the FriendFeed team saw what we all see and sold at the right time for a fantastic opportunity.
- Louis Gray
I will agree to disagree with Louis - that's about the only way I'm backing down on this. I believe passionately in FriendFeed, and I see no reason it's dying.
- Jesse Stay
Edwin look at how much the FriendFeed team uses FriendFeed - they still believe passionately in the service. They believe so as much as I do.
- Jesse Stay
(and I never said it was dying, nor did I say I don't believe in what was built here) Go find me saying that anywhere.
- Louis Gray
Jesse: would you have sold to friendfeed?
- Edwin Khodabakchian
I don't get what you are saying Louis - what is your argument?
- Jesse Stay
Start from the top. (And read your DMs). The graph you show here has zero validity and it is in no way relevant to the graph you are discussing from last week, period.
- Louis Gray
All I know is that public statistics lie. Paul B knows the real answer for FF, as does Jeff Huber for GReader stats.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Okay, so your argument is that FriendFeed is declining - isn't that the same as dying?
- Jesse Stay
If you get the flu, do you always die, Jesse?
- Louis Gray
If you lose 20 pounds, is it guaranteed that you will eventually hit zero?
- Louis Gray
Louis, okay, whatever - I see no reason it's declining
- Jesse Stay
Then you are being naive and ignoring all the public data, plus anecdotal data from this site itself.
- Louis Gray
The FF sale is more than a flu, it's a handicap scenario. It makes it harder to see a perfect future.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Louis: I am not sure that facebook was/is a fantastic opportunity for the friendfeed team. Facebook connect is awesome but this space is still at its infancy and I am not sure that the centralized facebook/twitter model will be the model of the future. Friendfeed had the advantage of understanding search really well and being distributed at its core - great asset!
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Louis, not naive at all - I shared the public data publicly on my blog, showing backed evidence the site is still growing. Where's your rebuttal? Do I have to show this again?: http://staynalive.com/article...
- Jesse Stay
Using your links in your article, Jesse, Quantcast topped out in August and has fallen significantly since. And we already noted that the Alexa data, which is the outlier, shows a small upward trend.
- Louis Gray
Louis, your argument is it's falling short-term. My argument is that it's growing long-term. My data supports that. I'm definitely not naive and frankly I'm beginning to be offended you're calling me that.
- Jesse Stay
OK. Good discussion. I think that Louis and Jess should go get a beer and huge each other. Time to go write some code!
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Yes, if you put the calendar back far enough, the trajectory is upward. Of course it is. And Edwin, I can't get Jesse to drink beer.
- Louis Gray
Great, then we agree
- Jesse Stay
I agree that if you go over a 2 year calendar, traffic to FriendFeed has increased.
- Louis Gray
I guess I missed something... I've seen (1) Quantcast and Compete charts of US reach/visitors which says domestic use is down (2) an Alexa chart that says international use is up (3) a comment and accompanying chart from Bret saying "international growth has started to completely dominate since August (4) a pretty significant shift in the FFholic Most Active user list to international users, and (5) lots of anecdotal evidence from English-speaking users saying they've seen reduced (or stable) activity.
- Ken Sheppardson
...is somebody taking exception to any of those observations?
- Ken Sheppardson
Nope. Agreed, Ken.
- Louis Gray
But the entire thread originated with the Google Reader flat line, which was a mistake.
- Louis Gray
Yeah, I think everybody's just trying to ignore that at this point ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
I just don't get why Jesse's trying to make this you-can't-believe-stats/charts argument. I think there's something in my list of 5 point that Jesse thinks is wrong.
- Ken Sheppardson
Jesse doesn't believe the Compete or Quantcast data showing a decline.
- Louis Gray
I don't think I ever agreed the above graph was correct - it was put there to show a point
- Jesse Stay
So you believe US usage is up, or not declining, Jesse?
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, I didn't mean you can't believe them - I mean they can often be deceptive
- Jesse Stay
Which is amusing, because the blue line here is identical to the same blue line I posted last week.
- Louis Gray
My head hurts.
- Ken Sheppardson
I thought I'd post it up against the same deceptive result so we were on the same terms
- Jesse Stay
Jesse - Next time use a red line .... :)
- Charlie Anzman
Sigh. I could also show a graph that over the last 120 years, GM sales are way up, and compare that to the sale of unicycles.
- Louis Gray
Just laughed out loud at that one Louis
- Hutch Carpenter
Damn, you mean Unicycles sales are up right now? Tomorrow is free shipping day.... :-)
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Are you saying Google Reader is like a Unicycle?
- Jesse Stay
Nope.
- Louis Gray
So Google Reader is going to be like GM?
- Jesse Stay
Ah... sorry... a light bulb just went off... showing a chart that shows US traffic is declining is deceptive in that some people who look at it might conclude that's overall activity, when in fact total, world-wide activity is steady or increasing.
- Ken Sheppardson
That's one of Jesse's theories, Ken. (Still doesn't explain the Google Reader non-sequitir)
- Louis Gray
If Google Reader is like a Unicycle, it's like the Honda's U3-X..... a very cool one!
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
I'm starting to piece this together... so showing reader.google.com traffic is declining when in fact total Reader traffic is up... ?
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, correct
- Jesse Stay
reader.google.com is a domain nobody uses. Reader traffic is unknown, but certainly not the flat line displayed here.
- Louis Gray
Louis, I use reader.google.com
- Jesse Stay
I'd agree with that theory. The World growth is outpacing US internet growth.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
I just took a look at the graph at http://www.alexa.com/siteinf... Turns out that although international reach is up as shown in your graph, Jesse, Alexa shows a 20% or so decrease in their pageview graph since the peak near August. More users spending less time...
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, that is short-term though, which was another point of mine. Long-term they still have an upward trend. It is still much too early to determine if they are declining yet. Maybe in 6 months you guys can all show me I'm wrong.
- Jesse Stay
Facebook bought FF in Aug, that throws a trendline in completely different direction. It's an inflection point.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Mark, FF took a dip after that, but they recovered and went even higher than before the FF acquisition. I wouldn't call that an inflection point.
- Jesse Stay
Which chart shows traffic higher than before the acquisition (not counting the spike after due to curious people who never heard of FF before they read it)? Are you looking at Alexa's "Reach"?
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Yes, Mark... Alexa's chart of international reach shows that the % of worldwide internet users who are visiting FriendFeed is up. It's also the 47th most popular site in Turkey, 227th in Italy, and 412th in Pakistan. :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Mark, correct, which is more accurate because it compares visitors globally, not just US
- Jesse Stay
In fact Alexa says 20.7% users are from the US and 20.6% are from Turkey, and another 20% or so from Italy, Japan, and India combined.
- Ken Sheppardson
Right but the question would be what were those percentages between countries back in August? A shift in demographics needs to be adjusted by online population in those countries.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
There's roughly 74M people in Turkey. For every 1% drop in US visits, about 4% would automatically gain for Turkey in the Pie Chart without a single new user in growth.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
I don't believe they're breaking out the % of users in each country that are visiting FriendFeed, they're talking about what % of FriendFeed users are coming from each country.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken is correct.
- Louis Gray
Strongly Disagree. Look at my coupon work site: RedPlum.com 92.2% are from the US. I highly doubt I have that much audience but I'd love for it to be true.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Disagree with what, Mark? That stat means for every 100 people who visit your site, 92 are from the US.
- Ken Sheppardson
Sorry, I misunderstood your comment. It's a pie of % of FF visitors are coming from which country. We are on same page.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Yeah, sorry... I switched from "reach" to the user breakdown midstream there.
- Ken Sheppardson
So as I was saying, a 1% drop in US visits moves Turkey up 4% when you factor populations and no new additions.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
To tie that together with Compete's US view, the US audience dropped 20% in last 90 days so Turkey would naturally rise in the pie chart regardless of new user growth from that country.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Actually digging that information a bit more, only 21.1% of the Turkey population uses the internet so the spread would widen even further.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
wow
- ★ Soner Gönül
Interesting......
- Keith Griffiths
What a ridiculous discussion! It has already been said: the stats are apples and oranges. Let's look at the comparative numbers for internet users who are brain-dead versus those who can type. It would appear graduation from grade school bans internet access.
- Douglas Hopkins
Facebook hurts !
- Desirade
Yeah, don't bother. Senestezi is spamming.
- Ken Sheppardson
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- beersage
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- beersage
from Bookmarklet
How well can you identify beer brands by looking at the 1st letter of the logo? /via @brookston #craftbeer - http://brookstonbeerbulletin.com/brookst...
"Here is the first of what will most likely be many beer quizzes. I’ll probably do a new one every few weeks. I have tons of similar graphics I’ve been collecting for another project and figured I’d put them to good use in the meantime."
- beersage
from Bookmarklet
American Beer the Belgian Way (story about @allagashbeer) | The Atlantic - http://food.theatlantic.com/mixmast...
Admiral Anika liked this
"The future of American craft beer sits in a shed on the industrial outskirts of Portland, Maine. Built by the Allagash Brewing Company in 2007, the shed holds the country's first commercial "koelschip," a shallow, 15-barrel steel pan used to cool down beer wort--and expose the beer to naturally occurring yeasts that float in through the shed's open stained-glass windows. The results, which are still aging in the brewery's warehouse and could be ready for drinking early next year, will be the first American lambic produced according to the traditional methods used in Belgium, where wild-yeast fermentation is considered a national treasure."
- beersage
from Bookmarklet
Budweiser takes on MillerCoors' Blue Moon in #craftbeer brew-haha | Crain's Chicago Business - http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin...
Eric @ CSTechcast.com liked this
"MillerCoors LLC and Anheuser-Busch Inbev are taking their age-old rivalry into the fast-growing "craft beer" market. Chicago-based MillerCoors' Blue Moon wheat beer is one of the hottest-selling craft brews, but Anheuser-Busch is angling to cut in on that growth with its new Bud Light Golden Wheat. Just two months after its debut, the new wheat beer has nearly matched Blue Moon's monthly sales."
- beersage
from Bookmarklet
Hah, I very nearly bought Blue Moon tonight
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
They should call it something other than Bud Light.
- Eric @ CSTechcast.com
Agreed. Bud Light is a turn-off.
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
Think baseball card collections take up a lot of room? WSJ article on the lost art of beer can collecting - http://online.wsj.com/article...
"HUBERTUS, Wis. -- Kids collect a lot of things these days: Transformers action figures, American Girl dolls, baseball cards. Then there's 10-year-old Randy Langenbach. He collects beer cans."
- beersage
from Bookmarklet
The Beer Nut: Warm up with a winter brew #craftbeer - http://www.the-leader.com/lifesty...
"There is only one thing that makes winter bearable: the cornucopia of breweries across the country that make great winter seasonals. It's not limited to one style -- there are spicy winter warmers, darker lagers, big stouts and even Belgian Christmas ales. There really is something for almost everyone."
- beersage
from Bookmarklet
Max's to expand beer selection from 78 taps to 100 in 2010 |rt@MDbeerspotter @beerinbaltimore #craftbeer - http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/enterta...
"The already massive selection of draft beer at Max's could get even bigger. The Fells Point bar plans to increase its tap selection from 78 to 100 in 2010, according to manager Casey Hard. "More is better," Hard said. "The new year will be very big for us.""
- beersage
from Bookmarklet
Prost! Duo plans to craft German beer at new Loveland brewery | Coloradoan #craftbeer - http://www.coloradoan.com/apps...
"Grimm Brothers Brewhouse partners Arron Heaton and Don Chapman are teaming up to bring German beer to Loveland."
- beersage
from Bookmarklet
What is the ideal number of 30" monitors, ignoring cost?
Никита Васильев, Jimminy Fuller, Yann Ropars and 34 other people liked this
For a moment there, I thought Al Gore had decided to go into radiology.
- Victor Ganata
Well, let's see... the Apple 30" is 27 inches wide, and standard ergo recommendations says you want a viewing distance of 20-40"... 6 would give you a polygon with a 23" viewing distance... 7 would give you you 28"... I'd say 7. Actually 14. Two "rows" of 7.
- Ken Sheppardson
It's really the 360 degree chair/desk rig that's the hard part, btw.
- Ken Sheppardson
Doesn't that leave you stuck inside, Ken?
- Tim Tyler
I too thought it was Al Gore & a post about his many computers' effects on global warming!
- beersage
I think the right number ignoring cost is the same as the right number including cost -- the massive energy consumption exerts downward pressure, just like the cost. But now the ideal number of 30" monitors if you ignore both cost and the effect on the environment...well I still think it's 1. Doing what Al Gore's doing here, to me, is like sitting in the very front row of the movie theatre.
- j1m
30" monitors are very effective internal wall insulation.
- Bernie Goldbach
I think maybe a 10' high by 30' wide wall of them would be about ideal. I can't decide if I would want the wall to be linear or circular, though, or what kind of seating choices I would like.
- ⓞnor
He should convert all those books and papers in his office into electronic format. Use his bookcase as a monitor wall with nine 30" monitors. A setup like this would rock: http://friendfeed.com/imabone...
- imabonehead
Put some of them on a hinged or sliding wall and the trapped problem goes away.
- Andrew C
I just hope his computer desktop isn't as messy as his actual desktop.
- j1m
I am only staring at two at the moment... (actually 2x30"+23"+20")
- Paulo Gaspar
I was thinking of some sort of turret-like setup where you climb up into the ring of monitors... or better yet: hydraulics
- Ken Sheppardson
Yes, ideally you'd want something that would make Professor X jealous. Maybe they could fold down from a petal-like ring arrangement from the ceiling.
- Andrew C
Aha... or think Darth Vader meditation chamber.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, now I'm picturing Al Vader surrounded by monitors, hilarious!!
- Lo
I'd say 3. Anymore and you'll start neglecting one of them.
- Mr. Gunn
Whoa—check out the flip chart!
- Mistletoe Glen
Empirically speaking, zero. I've stopped plugging my laptop into my 30" monitor at work. All the windows get messed up. Plus, I have this theory that sticking to a single laptop screen helps me focus better.
- Jim Norris
Fighting climate change one flat screen at a time. Just think how much power he is saving when he turns it all off to go out. Does he have eyes in the back of his head or is the TV on just because he hates polar bears?
- John Cooper
Jim, I agree with you. When I had two monitors, I used one for actual work and the other for mail, friendfeed and other distractions. I do prefer using a 24" screen to my laptop screen.
- Gary Burd
@Jim, personally, I find that my laptop screen is too confining. I plug into a 23" LCD at work. I use the LCD for TextMate and a couple of Terminals, then I keep a browser open on the laptop for testing and search. That works really well for me. If all I have is my laptop screen, I spend a lot of time Alt-TABing between apps.
- Jason Huebel
Why get 30" monitors when you could just get a couple CRVD monitors (since we're ignoring cost, and all)? http://www.ostendotech.com/crvd...
- Curtiss Grymala
I've settled in on a 3-screen setup: Center (24") has 2-4 terminal windows, either half of 1/4 of the screen each; Right (22") has a Chrome window, IM, and often a couple more terminal windows monitoring processes or logs; Left (20") has either media player software or live.twit.tv in a Chrome window :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken - Are you using any special software to organize the windows on your screen? I'm using a 30" monitor at work as my main screen and my 17" laptop screen as my secondary. On the 30" screen, I use a proggie called WinSplit Revolution to split my screen into sections. It's a lifesaver. Keyboard shortcuts automatically move and size the focused window to any portion of the screen you choose.
- Curtiss Grymala
No, Curtiss. I've tried different apps over the years, but nothing ever really clicked. However, I just discovered that the Windows key plus arrow keys in Windows 7 will now resize windows, e.g. Win+Left expands the window to the left half of the screen, Win+Left again moves it to the next monitor, etc.
- Ken Sheppardson
Nice. That's kind of the way winsplit works, except it uses ctrl+alt. Ctrl+alt+left moves window to left monitor, ca+rt moves to right screen. It also uses ctrl+alt plus any key on the number pad to move the window to any quadrant/half of the screen.
- Curtiss Grymala
from iPhone
OMG. His secretary must hate him.
- Kate Schmidt
The ideal number is as many monitors as he needs to lecture us about saving the environment.
- Morton Fox
Interview w/ Anchor Brewing’s Fritz Maytag on #craftbeer trends /by @CHOW_com - http://www.chow.com/blog...
"In 1969, Fritz Maytag became the sole owner of Anchor Brewing Company in San Francisco. Over the next 10 years, the brewery would prove to be a beacon of hope for good beer in America, as regional breweries were driven out of business by consolidation and macro swill ruled the supermarket shelves. In the late ’70s and early ’80s, when craft beer was being revived in America, Maytag had an open-door policy for new entrepreneurs and gave many of them advice on how to get their own breweries off the ground. Among them was Ken Grossman, the cofounder of Sierra Nevada Brewing Co. I interviewed Maytag while working on a feature about Sierra Nevada, and he had a lot to say about the industry. Some of the interesting bits that didn’t make it into the Sierra story—about why he’s no showboater and how he rebuffed brewing poseurs—is below."
- beersage
from Bookmarklet
The story behind Sierra Nevada Brewing (@SierraNevadaCA) /by @CHOW_com #craftbeer - http://www.chow.com/stories...
"Beer aficionados could hardly do better than the Monk’s Kettle, a bar and restaurant in San Francisco’s Mission District. The beer list is five pages and nearly 200 choices long, including a coconut and macadamia nut porter and a beer made with crushed Chardonnay grapes. Would those two Google engineers at the corner of the bar—the ones drinking challenging Belgian sour ales—ever order a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale?"
- beersage
from Bookmarklet
Heineken to start brewing own beer in India #beer - http://www.nrc.nl/interna...
"The Indian market is a coveted prize for the Amsterdam-based brewer. "In the world of beer, India offers by far the largest and most exiting opportunity for growth," Heineken CEO Jean-François van Boxmeer said on Monday."
- beersage
from Bookmarklet
Awesome brewer artwork featuring Garrett Oliver, John Maier, & Fritz Maytag #craftbeer /by @brookston - http://brookstonbeerbulletin.com/beer-in...
"Today’s works of art are part of a larger project undertaken by New Jersey illustrator Gregg Hinlicky. A decade ago, he began an undertaking to paint portraits of his favorite brewers."
- beersage
from Bookmarklet
Did anyone go to this? Holiday Ale Festival continues through Sunday evening | OregonLive.com - http://blog.oregonlive.com/thebeer...
"Before the Holiday Ale Festival, drinking beer in a tent in the chill of an Oregon fall probably meant you'd just finished the day's deer hunti And almost certainly, you would've been drinking an industrial lager like Budweiser or Rainier, not choosing from among 50 special winter barleywines, bocks, doppelbocks, winter warmers, strong ales, tripels, saisons and more, not to mention a dozen vanishingly rare kegs whose tapping was announced on chalkboards around which beer fans hovered, eager to add another notch to their tasting mugs."
- beersage
from Bookmarklet
The file upload procedure is just plain broke -- is anybody at FriendFeed even interested? About 9 out 10 attempts end up with an endless "processing" cycle.
rowlikeagirl, egza, pila and 13 other people liked this
For the longest time I couldn't even upload. Then all of a sudden, it started working again.
- Admiral Anika
I had this issue with an mp3 I tried uploading today as well. Couldn't they just play from another source without actually having it on their servers? If the link points to a valid file on the internet, it should still be able to play fine.
- Itachi
I think they decided to not respond to this group. See profile: "If you're experiencing a bug or issue, please see our <a href="http://friendfeed.com/about...">Contact page</a> to get in touch with us directly."
- NaHi
from f2p
Aye, same thing with spam. More time/effort is being dedicated elsewhere..understandable.
- Itachi
We're investigating. Are you experiencing this with all file types?
- Paul Buchheit
That's really interesting because I've not experienced this trouble at all. I only upload image files though.
- pea
Seems to be working for some people: http://friendfeed.com/ff-muzi...
- Jason Huebel
I don't know, might just be on and off thing. Worked yesterday fine though: http://friendfeed.com/random-...
- Itachi
I haven't had any problem with anything other than mp3 files but I haven't tried any others either.
- Brian Sullivan
The most infuriating part of this is that the failed upload counts against your upload quota.
- Brian Sullivan
I had problems with it this evening, however, I was on mobile broadband. Worked perfectly when I got home and used wifi.
- Keith Bennett
Happened to me a couple weeks ago with an *MB mp3 file.
- beersage
Whats the upload quota?
- beersage
@Brian, upload quota?
- Jason Huebel
Images generally work for me. An mp3 file took several attempts though.
- Todd Hoff
Apparently you can only upload 3 mp3 files per day (I am guessing per 24 hour period) -- at least that is what the message I got seems to imply. It gives you this message at the end of the upload process -- and you have to wait until the quota is replenished ( though you have no way of knowing when that would be unless you remember when all the upload attempts happened).
- Brian Sullivan
I had some issues uploading .mp3s a while ago (finally just sent them to Posterous and had done with it) - Paul, is there a file size limit? The ones I had were encoded at like 320kpbs, so they were about 9 or 10mb. The smaller ones I did (4-5mb) seemed to have a greater success rate, but I couldn't really test because of the upload limit that counted the failed ones against me.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
From what I can tell, the upload problems are caused by S3 errors (we store the files using Amazon S3). I've put in a little more logging and more retries. If you still have trouble uploading files, post the filename and I'll investigate.
- Paul Buchheit
What is really happening during that "processing" cycle? The "upload" part appears to work -- at least the progress bar and time taken is in line with the size of the file. For me it is the "processing" part that has failed.
- Brian Sullivan
Magic ;)
- Itachi
The "upload" part is uploading to the FriendFeed servers. The "processing" part is the FriendFeed server uploading to Amazon S3, which is where there are sometimes problems.
- Paul Buchheit
Ah, thanks for clearing that up, Paul.
- Micah Wittman
This is still occurring. Not uploading to Amazon apparently.
- Eric Logan
same prblem still
- egza
Brau Brothers Brewing Company aims to put Lucan on the map #craftbeer | Redwood Falls Gazette - http://www.redwoodfallsgazette.com/news...
"A typical week at the Brau Brothers Brewing Company in Lucan is divided into thirds: two days brewing, two days bottling, and two days cleaning up for the next batch. “Brewing days are usually 18 hour days. We start at 3 a.m., and do two batches a day,” amounting to about 2,000 gallons per week, said co-founder Dustin Brau."
- beersage
from Bookmarklet
Brau Brothers Brewing Company aims to put Lucan on the map #craftbeer | Redwood Falls Gazette - http://www.redwoodfallsgazette.com/news...
"A typical week at the Brau Brothers Brewing Company in Lucan is divided into thirds: two days brewing, two days bottling, and two days cleaning up for the next batch. “Brewing days are usually 18 hour days. We start at 3 a.m., and do two batches a day,” amounting to about 2,000 gallons per week, said co-founder Dustin Brau."
- beersage
from Bookmarklet
NY-based Village Voice's 10 Best Beers. @Sixpoint Bengali Tiger on top of Connoisseur list rt @beerwars - http://blogs.villagevoice.com/forkint...
"When we got the idea to do Our 10 Best Beers, little did we realize what a shark tank we were jumping into. While wine drinkers, cocktail swillers, and those that drink their spirits neat are a very vocal and cantankerous bunch, the vast majority of beer fanciers just sit back, foamy quaff in hand, and watch the rest of the drinkers duke it out. But if provoked, there's no one more opinionated than a beer drinker--whether she fancies pilsner, lager, bitter, stout, porter, lambic, saison, or even barley wine."
- beersage
from Bookmarklet
Crikey! @Brookston lists 265+ beers affiliated w/ AB-InBev & MillerCoors including some #craftbeer * ones - http://brookstonbeerbulletin.com/the-big...
"Anat Baron, who directed Beer Wars, kept getting asked about a list of which brands are owned by which of the two big beer companies operating in the U.S., Anheuser-Busch InBev and Miller Coors. I thought I’d help out by putting together this list, which still probably isn’t exhaustive since it doesn’t include experimental releases being test-marketed (or brands I simply missed)."
- beersage
from Bookmarklet
BrewDog Tokyo, 18.2% beer, faces ban over label message | BBC News - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2...
"An 18.2% beer made by a controversial Scottish brewery should not be be sold by bars, clubs and shops across the UK, a watchdog has ruled. The Portman Group said there had been complaints that a message on Fraserburgh-based BrewDog's Tokyo* labels encouraged excessive drinking."
- beersage
from Bookmarklet
Good. Long Trail purchase of Otter Creek Brewing won't result in any job losses says LT Pres. #craftbeer - http://www.addisonindependent.com/200912l...
"MIDDLEBURY — Bridgewater Corners-based Long Trail Brewing Co. is on the verge of acquiring Middlebury-based Otter Creek Brewing and Wolaver’s Certified Organic in a deal expected to make the Exchange Street brewery more financially stable and competitive."
- beersage
from Bookmarklet
15-yr Oregonian beer columnist, John Foyston, taking newspaper buyout but will still freelance - http://blog.oregonlive.com/thebeer...
"On December 18 I'm taking the buyout offered by The Oregonian, ending a 15-year career --- an extremely happy and fulfilling one --- as an Oregonian staffer. (I started out as a freelancer in September 1987 with a concert review of --- wait for it --- Night Ranger...and have written about 5,000 bylines give or take a thousand since then...)"
- beersage
from Bookmarklet
Much ado about nothing? FDA warns about adding caffeine to beers but @CharliePapazian thinks it will be ok - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...
""I woke up this morning and I got myself a beer. The future's uncertain and the end is always near," crooned Jim Morrison and the Doors in the song "Roadhouse Blues." Nowadays, an increasing number of brewers are adding coffee to their porters and stouts to produce beer that you might actually want to down as an eye-opener."
- beersage
from Bookmarklet
Wine Enthusiast Top 25 Beers of 2009 - RandyClemens.com - http://www.randyclemens.com/2009...
"Wine Enthusiast has released their list of Top 25 Beers of 2009, a newcomer joining their annual Top Wine & Spirits lists, no doubt a testament to the well-deserved growing popularity of craft beer and microbreweries. Top honors were given to Captain Lawrence Rosso e Marrone, a sour ale aged for two years in oak with the addition of Zinfandel and Merlot grapes that was given 95 out of a possible 100 points. (Despite the usual stigma associated with Brettanomyces in the wine world, it’s interesting to note their affinity for it in the beer realm.)"
- beersage
from Bookmarklet
Long Trail signs letter of intent to buy Otter Creek Brewing | Rutland Herald #craftbeer - http://www.rutlandherald.com/article...
"A merger between two of Vermont's biggest brewers shouldn't mean any less choice at the local beer cooler, according to a company executive. Long Trail Brewing Co. announced Monday that it had signed a letter of intent to purchase Otter Creek Brewery, confirming rumors that had been swirling around the two companies. Long Trail CEO Brian Walsh said he hoped to close in about a month. He would not discuss the purchase price. Otter Creek owner and president Morgan Wolaver did not immediately return a call Monday evening."
- beersage
from Bookmarklet
Tom Cruise & Katie Holmes' daughter Suri (3 yes THREE!) on high heel shoes - http://www.seyvet.com/foto...
David Cook, "Keizer Soze", Renato Salles and 40 other people liked this
3 yaşında topuklu ayakkabı giymek ister ama giydirilir mi?
- Özer (Wrzl) Dölekoğlu
from Bookmarklet
Yazık kızcaaza
- keiser
hala mı yaw ben cocuk istiyor da ses etmemişler bi kerelik falan sanmıştım
- Özge Gürçay
küçük emrah görmesin:))
- yuri
yalnizca ayakkabi mi, o kiyafet ne, canta vs. sacmalik
- Emel Senkul
iğrenç!
- Kader Kılıç
minik kadın ((:
- *renklerin içinde
bir ikon olarak kullanılıyordu zaten garibim suri. ama pek şaşırtmadı beni.
- Yağız
"WTF?!" dedirtir.
- Serkan Canıberk
scientology tarzı bu herhalde. biz bilemiyoruzdur..
- erastes
ufacık kızlara oje sürülmesine bile tahammül edemiyorum ben bu nedir allaşkına!
- Duygu Eroglu
alt taraftan bakınca resmen kadın gibi duruyor
- PuCCa
Hayır bir de 15 yaşına geldiğinde botoks yaptıracak, babasının doğumgünüde alacağı uzay gemisini beğenmeyecek, Doğumgünü Mars'ta değil de Ay'da yapılacağı için ailesini hiç affetmeyecek.. Çok fena!
- Serkan Canıberk
harbi kadın gibi duruyo, yazık yazık :))
- huzunbaz yuzler
9 unda ağda da yapar katie bu kıza
- Duygu Eroglu
ben ortadaki resmi annesinin resmi sandım ilk başta :( bu ne ya?
- irmm
ah suri vah suri
- Ceyda Babaoglu
apatl büyüklerin ellerinde yazık oluyor çocuklara çok yazık
- errorist
Çantası çok güzel. Kıyafetini de kendime beğendim :)) Minik ayakları ve minik ruhu zarar görecek orası ayrı...
- Gül Deliorman
26 numara açık burunlu topuklu. Rüküşlük sınır tanımaz....
- Acharad Sami vanJoulee
yeni moda oldu bu. gap'ta da çocuklar için topuklu ayakkabı satılıyor. bir arkaşımın kızı da arkadaşlarından görüp özenince neymiş diye bakmaya gittiğimizde görmüştüm. ponponlu topuklu terlikler bile var, mini kevaşe görüntüsünü tamamlamak için.
- satine
korkunç!!! 15 yaşına kadar topuklu ayakkabı giydirmeyin deniyor. 3????
- Burcu Tüzün
Küçük İKONCAN....ehueheuheuheee
- Eda Uzun
Boyle zavalli cocuklari gorunce kendi anne ve babama bir kez daha sukrediyorum aynen su an olduklari gibi olduklari icin.
- Hande
o.O
- Shandiz
aman tanrım .çok tatlı.
- İSMAİL DAĞLI
çok şirin de 3 yaşında gözükmüyo bu daha büyük gözüküyo. bi de 15 yaşına gelince spor ayakkabıdan başka bişi giymeyen bi grunge olursa şaşırmam. annen küçükken seni nasıl giydirirse genelde ilerde tam tersi şekilde giyinmeye başlıyosun. tepki meselesi.
- dolce babanne
ooohhaaaaaaaaa..! diyorum. Bu zihniyete başka birşey diyemicem en usturuplu kelime bu
- Tamkarışık
Anne ve diğer kadın kalın çizmeler giymiş, anlaşılan hava soğuk. Üşümez mi yavrucak?
- Selda Dölekoğlu (Dinemiz)
very grown up. kind of weird...
- See-ming Lee 李思明 SML
Tom and Katie's little big woman toy.
- Ozkan Altuner
yazık...
- zeynep
yazık yahu bu kadarcık cocuga
- IChiGo
buyumus de kuculmus!cok antipatik..
- irem
Çok güzel amaa:)
- Merve
this is not cool at all
- مير «دورا» موسوی
Oh dear! :-(
- Kol Tregaskes
Daha gelişme çağında olduğunu unutmuş annesi herhalde!
- Pelin Ekmekçi
annem bunu görse "anasının kızı ne olucak" derdi
- Hakan çalışkan
bu yasta topuklu ayakkabı giydirmek korkunc birsey cocuga... belinde kalıcı sakatlkk bile olusabilir sart sanki cocugun bunları giymesi yazık
- gözde gökalemi
kizin kendisi giymek istiyor bence tipine bakinca anlasiliyor
- dilan bozyel
Bir kere olur iki kere olur.. Benim kızım olsa asla giydirmem böyle.
- Özge Gürçay
Küçücük kızın ''özgür irade'' diye bir kavramı yoktur.
- Özge Gürçay
Gerçekten ürkütücü bir çift... Victoria & David Beckham'dan bile daha korkunçlar...
- Hande Sonmez
anlamak zor...
- elodeon
looks like her mom.
- Mycaptain
ıyyyy :/ kız cocuunda ojeye tahammulum yoktu ama bu ondan da kotu
- senem
pembe oje eyyyy iyrençç
- Özge Gürçay
çocukken benim de aynı şekilde topuklu ayakkabılarım vardı. stiletto yüksekliği değil ki bu, baya çocuk ayakkabısı topugu. eskiden çok vardı şimdi retro dönüş yaşandığı için tekrar bu modeller çıktı piyasaya. mini mouse, daisy modeli işte. nesi kadınsı anlamıyorum. hatta anatomik olarak dümdüz sandalet giymesi çok daha zararlıdır çocukların... üzerindeki giysilerin de neresi "grown-up"...
more...
- bluretina
hatta anatomik olarak dümdüz sandalet giymesi çok daha zararlıdır çocukların....demıs unlu ortopedist bluretina asdlkjaskajakajs
- senem
Didn't check the comments but I heard she's starring in the next Chucky movie.
- beersage
gel sana ortopedik olarak açıklayayım sevgili snm ama burdan anatomini çözemiyorum.
- bluretina
I used to have little plastic dress-up shoes when I was three, don't see how this is any different.
- Charlotte M
valla bacak gelişimini bozar topuklu ayakkabı. babasının gerzek olduğunu tapındığı kültten biliyorduk ama sfsfsfd bu kadar da değilmiştirdi be
- Zeynep U.
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