I agree with Neil: http://friendfeed.com/mndoci... - Bill Hooker

+1 Neil - the dual recording problem is always the big killer whether in small scale academic projects or large scale pharma deployments. The primary and archival recording point has to be at the bench. Just a question of how to get it there most effectively. - Cameron Neylon

I wonder if there are any studies looking at how people actually fill in a lab book (electronic or paper) while at the bench? I don't see anybody writing stuff out longhand at the bench whatever the format. It is very common to annotate a protocol with minor changes while carrying out the work (e.g. wetlab, pipetting) then clear away at the end and write up those changes and notes a few minutes later. I see ELNs as BETTER for reducing duplication. It would be interesting to knock up a survey for bench scientists using ELNs, see what actually happens and why. - Dave Lunt

You shouldn't have to do the dual record thing - there's no reason for it and to be honest I get quite frustrated how many companies seem to be happy to torture their scientists in this way. Record keeping can and should "just happen" as a result of the natural work process, with the exception in some areas of asking the scientists to sign and witness. (disclaimer: I feel strongly enough about this that I started a company to provide tools to do this....) - Simon Coles

@Dave - we often get complaints from scientists when training that using an ELN will slow them down because it takes longer to write stuff up electronically. Until they do a similar experiment and can re-use the earlier one... at which point the time saving really hits home and generally they never go back to paper. - Simon Coles

@Simon exactly! With paper notebooks your protocols and lab book are separate, with ELNs they can be the same thing. Paste in (whatever) protocol, ammend as you go along or at end from scribbled notes, done. - Dave Lunt

So why is it we are still having this argument with developers that should know better? Apart from the fact obviously that there are a lot of rubbish "ELN" systems out there? - Cameron Neylon

The photo to this article is very cool- I've been in a few labs like this. Just trying to see where the lab book is in the photo. Red file with pipette amd scissors on top? Or is that protocols? Sheet of paper under petri dish? Stapled sheets under the test tube rack? Deep red book on shelf above and right? Nobody working at this bench writes a narrative as they go along! - Dave Lunt

My point is that the current ELNs cannot replace the notebooks since there are too few computers on the bench. this is what I see working with our clients. Until then vendors should develop a tool that will enable "offline" interaction. we took a this approach. so far it looks good. - Jonathan Gross

Nah. When we go this way, it'll be to get rid of the paper - all my students have laptops next to their benches. - Matthew Todd