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Berry Groenendijk › Comments
Terry Jones #1 http://m.kyte.tv/ch...
goodmachine, suelibrarian, metalerik and 28 other people liked this
There are four parts to this video. One of the most interesting developers and ideas for the RealTimeWeb that I've heard yet. I wish FriendFeed has this search engine's capabilities.
- Robert Scoble
Okay, you've got me hooked, RS. Gimme more, please, Sir!
- James D Kirk
fascinating concept "Fluid Info": "database with a heart of a wiki" ... love his accent! Interesting to give user so much control w/o schemas, permissions, etc. Removes all the structure, limitations....wow
- Susan Beebe
ok where's part 2 at?
- Susan Beebe
Susan: Uploads from Spain are slow.
- Robert Scoble
Faster than China or slower?
- David Feng
from IM
Sorry - wrong comment... I mean, commented to wrong person...
- David Feng
from IM
Gotcha! Time for some coffee although that hot chocolate does sound better :)
- Susan Beebe
David: I think uploads in China were faster. But I think the hotel wifi sucks. Can't blame that on an entire country. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Thanks Robert! And thanks for watching.... I'm a bit of a gasbag.
- Terry Jones
Terry your ideas are amazing... ripping away the layers of db constraints to open up an evolutionary platform for information mining / sharing is simply AWESOME! My db structured brain is having a tough time computing the lack of structures, but my intuition tells me this is right for the future....neat data model design concept for sure!
- Susan Beebe
Hi Susan. Thanks :-) BTW, there are permissions. You can have, e.g., a susan/rating attribute that you're putting onto things, and it's yours - no one else can detect/read/write/delete it unless you let them. OTOH, the underlying database objects have no owner. There are no permissions at that level. So you can put a rating (or anything else) onto any object (that you can find). No-one can stop you. So we're fully writable like a wiki, but with a permissions structure within the object (unlike a wiki).
- Terry Jones
Ooooh got it!!! Ok so you're building a core data model (protected) with objects everywhere (open design) which are available to users who are presented with a highly customizable user profile (detect/read/write/delete ) that can call / manipulate said objects to create the user's *own* data set (which has multiple layers of permissions / attributes / tags? to control sharing, reporting and distribution of data) = fabulous! when can I have it? :)
- Susan Beebe
Terry - is this something like entity/attribute/value? I did something like that a few years ago... but found it hard to do searching - equality in my thing was fine, but greater than, less than etc (ie: with a date range) were a bit harder. How have you overcome this?
- Brad
@Susan. Yes, that sounds more or less right. Yes, your own data is on the objects, as it that of anyone else who wants to put something there. it's all combinable, searchable as you like. Plus you can organize multiply, simultaneously, and arbitrarily (simply by adding more tags to objs & searching). We'll do an alpha release in early 2009.
- Terry Jones
@Brad. Dates are stored both numerically and textually. What gets searched on depends on the query. terry/seen > "Jan 22, 2007" is numeric, terry/seen ~ "Monday" is textual, etc. The query language is dead simple. It took me a lot of thinking to reduce everything to very very simple primitive operations and an easily parallelizable query language.
- Terry Jones
BTW, there are 3 more parts to the video coming up... :-)
- Terry Jones
Part II is now up: http://www.kyte.tv/scoblei...
- Robert Scoble
Impressive demo and ideas. I was thinking about similar lines last week using CouchDB (a schemaless document database by Damian Katz). Also the views in FluidDB sound like views in CouchDB. I very much like the idea of sharing data and being able to annotate or enhance the original(!) data. This is Open Data on steroids.
- Berry Groenendijk
Mindnumbing stuff.
- ɯɥøq sɐɯoɥʇ
@Berry Hi. I'm reasonably familiar with CouchDB. It's a very different animal. CouchDB is very focused on documents, and lays out complete documents (serialized JSON strings actually, plus BLOBs) efficiently on disk. FluidDB is not focused on anything :-) And its storage is not done by object, but is instead by attribute (or tag if you like). CouchDB used to not have permissions, but I think that's changing/ed. About views yes, agreed. I hope that makes it clearer. It takes a while to get.
- Terry Jones
Part #3 is now up http://bit.ly/UteO
- Terry Jones
Terry I think I am slowly getting my head around FluidDB. There is still one big problem. The way people tag things. Some people tag things with a x,y coordinates, others with a longitude and latitude, etc. You need consistent tag names (or metadata field names or whatever) to be able to effectively search data. Does FluidDB help you with this in any way?
- Berry Groenendijk
And part #4 http://www.kyte.tv/ch...
- Terry Jones
Hi Berry. No, there's no help, and nor do I think there should be. Conventions evolve. They become consistent to the degree that it's important they are consistent. If it doesn't matter that you write color and I write colour, then it's no big deal. But if I write S.O.S. and you write S.O.B., it could be very important!
- Terry Jones
There's a lot of evolutionary biology thinking behind FluidDB. Attributes will (implicitly) have fitness. Things that are useful will flourish, become trusted, be heavily used, and their owners will similarly gain. Other stuff will not. This gets at the question of spam too. What's spam? But that's another subject - also very important if you're going to build an information architecture that can survive its own success.
- Terry Jones
Terry I like the way you think about these things. Just viewed part #4 of the interview. I am looking forward to the alpha release.
- Berry Groenendijk
Eager to see Alpha product too! send me invite susan.beebe {at} gmail dot com - thanks! This is really inspiring / disruptive technology!! love it! makes my brain hurt in a GOOD way (i.e. un-doing all the overly burdensome architecture that was imprisoning my data!) :-) Terry is one smart cookie!!
- Susan Beebe
How will you expire certain attributes? Similar to domain name management today, will you have leases on groups (or specific) attributes? This seems to be the way that you're going with the revenue model, and would certainly make sense after you've reached enough critical mass. When will you start allowing people to start reserving namespaces/attributes?
- Davison
very neat project
- mikehedge
@Terry - thanks. I built my thing on a standard relational db - Firebird, but everything was stored as text, so it was a bit difficult... :) So... how do you go about implementing "relationships"? ie: I have a video store, with all these videos, and this person rents these vids, so I'd like to send them an email when there's a new release in the genre that they've hired previously? Would love to talk to you more about this. Thanks!
- Brad
@SusanBeebe - you know, that's exactly right! undoing the architecture! yes, sort of kinda..... :) and freeing one'self from the confines of relational theory... but see me other comment to Terry re relationships. Happy Days! :)
- Brad
@Terry - sorry I can't stop thinking about this. In my thing, I maintained another table that aggregated all the various uses of a "thing". So at a glance, I could tell what the most used credit card was for purchases.... which state had the most sales etc.... this was a way to help the business owner make sense of all the data, and plan for the future. ie: Diners Club had like 2% of sales, yet attracted the highest fees - so that tells me get rid of Diners Club as a payment method? That sort of thing.....
- Brad
@Terry - and all - I had better stop here - I could keep typing all night about this, and then miss the new year! :) So happy new year to everyone. And special thanks to Robert for bringing you to our attention.
- Brad
Hi @Brad. Sorry for my slow replies - I don't get any notification of new comments here. I don't really use friendfeed (yet). I'm not sure exactly what @Susan had in mind with her "undoing the arch" comment, but that certainly captures the flavor. Re relationships, there is NO support for them. It's not a relational model. There's just a (conceptually) very simple architecture and laughably simple query language. You get to do analysis on your own CPU :-) Lots of tradeoffs there, of course.
- Terry Jones
The video still works for me.
- Terry Jones
LANjackal to LANjackal's feed, All Things Google, Chrome, TheNextWeb Forum, RWW: The Future of Tech, building43
No thanks, Google--we've got Ubuntu | Business Tech - CNET News - http://news.cnet.com/8301-10...
Roman, yagami, Carlton Prest and 3 other people liked this
"Google's decision to create its own Linux distribution and splinter the Linux community decisively once again can only be seen as foolhardy and self-obsessive. Instead of treading its own path, Google should have sought to leverage the stellar work already carried out by Shuttleworth and his band of merry coders and tied its horse to the Ubuntu cart. If Google truly wants to design a new "windowing system on top of a Linux kernel," there should be nothing to stop the search giant from collaborating openly with the best in the business. I'm sure Linus Torvalds would have something strongly worded to say about Google's plans to "completely redesign" the underlying security architecture of Linux."
- LANjackal
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I think there is some merit to completely redesign an architecture that has its roots some decades ago. Let's just see where it goes.
- Oliver Bouchard
I think Googles plans are bigger. They're downplaying it now - first they need to take on a realistic project that they can deliver any time soon and second they always try not to jump in Microsoft's or Apple's face. But once they have an all-Google platform going, then anything is possible.
- Oliver Bouchard
Google is doing the same thing as Apple. Building a great OS for mobile, notebook, netbook, desktop and server. Difference is that Google does it Open Source and does not sell hardware. They are playing on MS playground.
- Berry Groenendijk
@Holden: "Chrome OS -> windows 7, Android -> windows mobile" but Chrome OS has been released as a netbook OS ... which is exactly the space Android was supposed to be covering. And again, your analogy omits the fact that there are other major OSes besides Windows.
- LANjackal
I agree in that there's not much Google has done *wrong*, but there are quite a few projects/releases of its making that have generally failed to gain much traction anywhere. Gears is one of them. FB chat killed GTalk overnight, not that GTalk ever threatened AIM or WLM in terms of user base anyway. I think Chrome OS will be a *technical* success, but not much more than an academic curiosity for at least the next few years. I'll put my money on Android in the mobile space and Wave when it drops
- LANjackal
from IM
Oh, and Chrome, for all its speed and hype, has absolutely slaughtered ... *Drumroll* Opera. As I said, there's a huge difference between technical success and market success. Google is very good at the former, but outside of search and email (Android may be hyped but it's nowhere near widely available nor has the G1/HTC Magic sold as well as the iPhone or RIM devices), the latter has been tough to come by for them
- LANjackal
from IM
zibb - Tips van weggebruikers zorgen voor minder files - http://www.zibb.nl/1024227...
"Loods aan de rand van de stad en dan met kleiner wagentjes de binnenstad in." Dat is toch al meerdere keren geprobeerd, o.a. vrachttram in Amsterdam. Altijd was er wel iets. Waarom lukt dit nu wel in Nijmegen?
- Berry Groenendijk
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YouTube - Awesome 1930s - http://es.youtube.com/watch...
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Berry Groenendijk liked this
A modern version of running up an over buildings is called Parkour (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...).
- Berry Groenendijk
YouTube - Under the ruler faster than the ruler - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Berry Groenendijk and ɯɥøq sɐɯoɥʇ liked this
Awesome! Now, does this guy do obj-c tutorials as well ? ;)
- ɯɥøq sɐɯoɥʇ
Very nice. But, it does not really explain why this happens. Does it? Friction is probably a part of the answer.
- Berry Groenendijk
Stevey's Blog Rants: Business Requirements are Bullshit - http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008...
What Steve is describing is exactly how Apple makes great products, see: http://money.cnn.com/galleri...
- Berry Groenendijk
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10 Ways to Cut Down Web Development Time - http://digg.com/program...
Chris Rogers, Chris Mayer, nossenigma and Robert Scoble liked this
@Peter I agree. Use of open source products in companies, certainly in Europe, is still not very common. I wonder what keeps companies holding back?
- Berry Groenendijk
Oxite - Lab - MIX Online - http://visitmix.com/Lab/oxite
An open source CMS from Microsoft. I don't know. I think I stick to Django and Python ;-)
- Berry Groenendijk
from Bookmarklet
Live TV on the iPhone - Livestation previews its app - http://uk.techcrunch.com/2008...
I just installed Livestation on my Ubuntu system. Works great! I am very much impressed. Quality is good. Program just works. Wow.
- Berry Groenendijk
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Are you on FriendFeed and NOT in the USA? http://friendfeed.com/grahame... wants to subscribe to you. Leave URL here:
Dimitar Vesselinov, Kamilah Reed (K. Gill), Micah and 21 other people liked this
Graham is looking for some good FriendFeeders who are not in the USA. Me too. Leave your URL here. Like this: http://www.friendfeed.com/scoblei...
- Robert Scoble
yep.. http://friendfeed.com/asfaq.. am from Mumbai and helped spread the Mumbai attack news on twitter at http://www.twitter.com/asfaq..
- Asfaq
Yah, I'm in Australia :) http://friendfeed.com/jjproje...
- jjprojects
http://friendfeed.com/sanjays... Am in Chennai, India
- Sanjay Subrahmanyan
http://friendfeed.com/wyattpe... - another Australian
- Wyatt Peak
Damn, Scoble. You're fast! :)
- Graham English
Graham: I thought it was a great idea! Already I found a bunch of cool people to follow.
- Robert Scoble
http://friendfeed.com/warrens... - AU :-)
- Warren
This turkey from Turkey ;-)
- Erhan Erdoğan
http://friendfeed.com/ircubic I'm a Norwegian :)
- Daniel Bruce
Jansen http://friendfeed.com/jansen @ Hong Kong
- Jansen Lu
Anyone from Barcelona? I'll be there Sunday.
- Robert Scoble
http://friendfeed.com/grumpym... - another Warren from Aus
- Warren Butler
http://friendfeed.com/ilenea - UK :)
- ilene
Robert: You're telling me! Holy tidal wave. :) Love it!
- Graham English
From New Delhi, India http://friendfeed.com/narendr...
- Narendra Nag
I'm in China - http://friendfeed.com/perrywh...
- perry whitecage
Parth Awasthi, India - http://friendfeed.com/parthaw....
- Parth Awasthi
http://www.friendfeed.com/pdenlin... In various places in China
- Paul Denlinger
In Canada, http://friendfeed.com/bmancre...
- Brendon Wadey
twitterer from bangalore http://friendfeed.com/prakashf
- Prakash
from Greece http://friendfeed.com/nikan
- Nikos Anagnostou
New Zealand! http://friendfeed.com/simiana...
- Jonah Merchant
from Bangalore, India http://friendfeed.com/maheshcr
- Mahesh CR
Toronto, Ontario, Canada http://friendfeed.com/elastic...
- Tara
Singapore: http://friendfeed.com/dregar
- Andre P. Siregar
Canada... is that too close?
- Ken Morley
Mexico!... http://friendfeed.com/jorgeav... - technocrat....
- Jorge Avila
ITALY: http://friendfeed.com/cgrassi - Christian Grassi
- Christian
Melbourne, Australia: http://friendfeed.com/d0tski
- Bec Rowe @d0tski
Representin' UK http://friendfeed.com/matthar...
- Matt Frog
Philippines: http://friendfeed.com/jackst
- Jack
In Canada but English: http://friendfeed.com/worldof...
- WoH: Minding her Steves
Another Aussie - http://friendfeed.com/thegadg...
- TechStyles.com.au
England - http://friendfeed.com/adean
- Alan Dean
Romania/Italy http://friendfeed.com/limmoni... - Monica Muntean
- Ioana Monica Muntean
Russia, if you want :) http://friendfeed.com/lawlesz
- Vitaly Pimenov
Alberta, Canada http://friendfeed.com/micahwi...
- Micah
Toronto, Canada: http://friendfeed.com/shey
- Shey
http://friendfeed.com/gaz4695 Gary from England :-)
- Gary
India - Bangalore http://friendfeed.com/itsmeri... - Ritesh
- Ritesh
Robert, I've not seen a single Spaniard here, and I've been looking. Don't know why!
- Richard Walker
http://friendfeed.com/nobabe and hi, from austria - vienna / viennawoods
- Margit Hinke
Salzburg, Austria http://friendfeed.com/kohlhof... (sound of music town)
- Alexander Kohlhofer
Kuala Lumpur http://www.friendfeed.com/thechan...
- Carolyn Chan
Netherlands http://www.friendfeed.com/dehaasp... - Peter de Haas
- dehaaspeter
http://friendfeed.com/berryg - Dutch entrepeneur from The Netherlands
- Berry Groenendijk
http://friendfeed.com/santiro... - Madrid, Spain
- santiromero
Barcelona, Spain - :-)
- eduardo
I'm in Canada. http://friendfeed.com/tanath
- Tanath
http://friendfeed.com/pandemia Italy :)
- Luca Conti
http://friendfeed.com/chantal - Toronto, Canada
- Chantal
Hi! Alberto from Milan, Italy http://friendfeed.com/dottavi
- Alberto D'Ottavi
https://friendfeed.com/thesliv... from the UK
- Simon Lucy
http://friendfeed.com/davemac Melbourne, Australia
- David McDonald
http://friendfeed.com/aadjemo... Delft, Netherlands
- Aad 't Hart
http://friendfeed.com/koltreg... - Kent, England
- Kol Tregaskes
http://friendfeed.com/sveinhd Bergen, Norway
- Svein Håvard Djupvik
London - http://friendfeed.com/jonprice
- Jon Price
Berlin, Germany - http://friendfeed.com/berlini...
- Roman von Contzen
This feels like a party! Hi from Greece: http://friendfeed.com/past
- Panagiotis Astithas
Athens, Greece: http://friendfeed.com/ageor
- Alexandros Georgiadis
Athens, Greece http://friendfeed.com/talos -Vicki Kolovou
- Vicki Kolovou
http://friendfeed.com/bhavish... - I'm in Birmingham, UK
- Bhavishya Kanjhan
From Turkey.
- İbrahim Uzun [ j ]
http://friendfeed.com/andreas... Berlin, DE
- Andreas
http://friendfeed.com/nicolaq... In the UK, south, on the beach.
- Nicola Quinn
http://friendfeed.com/ianlipm... ... UK, East Anglia (it would be good to get some UK feeds, had enough of US politics now!)
- Ian
Why do you want to subscribe to people you do not know?
- Divided By Zer0
London UK
- Dave Nattriss
http://friendfeed.com/vmlemon - I'm somewhere in North Yorkshire, in the UK
- Tyson Key
http://friendfeed.com/mindaug... in Vilnius, Lithuania
- Mindaugas Dagys
http://friendfeed.com/loshavr... I'm currently in Liverpool, UK
- Adam
Toronto, ON http://www.friendfeed.com/goggles...
- Rick Jessup
http://friendfeed.com/larsvedo - Vancouver, Canada
- Vedø
Divided: why do you want to read a newspaper made by people you don't know? Or buy a car from people you don't know? Or eat a meal made by people you don't know?
- Robert Scoble
Milano, Italy, http://friendfeed.com/slowfin...
- Slow
http://friendfeed.com/philhel... - Philip Ferris - Cornwall, UK
- Philip Ferris
A large part of the membership of The Life Scientists room is non-USA.
- Mr. Gunn
http://www.friendfeed.com/carlmor... from Cardiff, Wales, UK
- carl morris
http://friendfeed.com/didicha... - Israel
- Didi Chanoch
http://friendfeed.com/ernieya... - north wet coast of turtle island, courtenay, canada
- ernie yacub
http://friendfeed.com/vinko - currently living in Hong Kong.
- Vinko
http://friendfeed.com/divedi - Bulgaria, Europe - Dimitar Vesselinov
- Dimitar Vesselinov
C o r e P y : Synthetic Programming in Python - http://www.corepy.org/
Writing assembly language programs in Python. Nice!
- Berry Groenendijk
from Bookmarklet
John Resig - Genetic A/B Testing with JavaScript - http://ejohn.org/blog...
A/B testing for websites. Hopefully genetify will be open source soon. Looks like a great tool to test different layouts and promotional texts on websites.
- Berry Groenendijk
from Bookmarklet
Scobleizer — Tech geek blogger » Blog Archive The Twitterization of Conversations « - http://scobleizer.com/2008...
Twitter and Friendfeed are changing the landscape of communication on the internet.
- Berry Groenendijk
from Bookmarklet
Killer open source monitoring tools | InfoWorld | Analysis | 2008-11-24 | By Paul Venezia - http://www.infoworld.com/article...
Handy list of monitoring tools. Must look into these soon.
- Berry Groenendijk
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