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WTF Tax Blog: Sponsored by OMG Tax- A different kind of tax blog - http://wtftax.com/about-o...

March 30 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Berthe and t-ra: not givin up liked this

"WTF Tax Blog is sponsored by OMG Tax, a dedicated team of tax professionals who specialize in compliance with State and Federal tax laws. WTF Tax Blog was created to give taxpayers a necessary break from the typical dry and dreary tax jargon." - Amit Patel from Bookmarklet

Thanks, Amit. I'm sending this to my law student daughter who is taking federal tax law this semester. - Berthe

Amir

Fwd: Edith Piaf - Non je ne regrette rien (via http://friendfeed.com/mqmuzik...)

March 29 - Comment - Like - Share

kate simmons, Berthe, ma∟ıĸ and 2 other people liked this

Perfect :) - moreya

thanks - moreya

thanks. - Berthe

Sean McBride

Facebook Launches Threaded Conversations Page Replies With Automatic Popularity Sort http://6sen.se/YwwtAL

March 26 from Advanced Tweets - Comment - Like - Share

Berthe liked this

sort of like Friendfeed on Facebook? - Berthe

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Apparently -- Facebook is gradually trying to catch up with many of the valuable features of a property it already owns -- Friendfeed. - Sean McBride

I just took a look at the Facebook interface once again after a long hiatus -- it still looks like a mess. Ugh. - Sean McBride

Maybe it will work with Facebook's wider audience but then again, too many commenters would make "conversation" impossible. Still hoping to find a good discussion place. Here on Friendfeed I still find so much orthodoxy, which I do not get. Its the internet! We're anonymous posters, not looking for a job or running for office. IMO, people sell themselves short. - Berthe

In your opinion, which discussion/conversational/forum software provides the best interface and features overall? - Sean McBride

Sean, did you ever look at Jonathan Turley's blog? jonathanturley.org. What I like is that you can "subscribe" to a post and get all the new comments on that post delivered to your inbox. Turley brings up a subject, usually something in the news, and writes his musings and then its up for discussion and he doesn't come back. Getting the updates on new comments to your inbox encourages replies to comments. - Berthe

Yes -- that's a great feature: the ability to receive all new comments in a discussion in email -- absolutely essential in fact. A powerful mail reader like Gmail provides one with many tools for tracking and managing those comments. - Sean McBride

Useful features in commenting/discussion systems: 1. commenter analytics 2. delete one's own comments at any time 3. edit one's own comments at any time 4. exchange private messages with commenters 5. list and multicolumn view of comments 6. receive comments in email 7. reply to comments in email 8. search comments 9. sort comments by popularity 10. threaded comments - Sean McBride

Sean, heres an example of the data mining you talk about, Google Ngram followed by discussion and comments. Comments use Blogger but these are high quality commenters who actually read other comments and make direct replies without the software assisting them, it seems. - Berthe

http://www.isteve.blogspot.com/2013... - Berthe

The trouble with Friendfeed, IMO, is that there is so much non-discussion that its become the norm. Actual discussion is so rare here. Mostly its like people putting up the equivalent of twitter or facebook-status posts. When there is any actual discussion, there is surprising intolerance and anger. Very few here are like you, goodwill-towards-all types. Thats interesting in itself. - Berthe

Can one find better discussion on Facebook or Twitter? - Sean McBride

The 140 character limit on Twitter makes it unusable for discussion and talking with people you know in real life on facebook means walking on eggshells. I haven't been to dailykos in quite a few years because those folks are the worst for narrowmindedness but the site works well for comments and replies to comments. - Berthe

True that. Also, Salon.com's discussion software continues to remain quite primitive -- it hasn't improved much since the days of Glenn Greenwald. - Sean McBride

I got fed up with Greenwald and with Salon. They kept banning a poster I liked. I have not visited that site in years. - Berthe

Amir

A wise man never knows all ,only fools know everything!

March 26 - Comment - Like - Share

Berthe and Maitani liked this

AfricanProverb - Amir

Zulema ❧ spicy cocoa tart

"Age gap: She's old enough to be his ... wife" http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-09... (This is relevant to me. *cough*)

"Age gap: She's old enough to be his ... wife" http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-09-19/features/sc-fam-0918-age-gap-romance-20120919_1_age-gap-age-difference-age-matters (This is relevant to me. *cough*)

March 21 from Advanced Tweets - Comment - Like - Share

Kol Tregaskes, Berthe, Pixie and 10 other people liked this

My wife is 6.5 yrs older, so yeah, no big deal. - John Dupuis

25 more comments

Rach is 3 months older than me... and you KNOW for 3 months a year I strut like a toy boy :) - Johnny from iPhone

My wife is 4.5 years older than I am - DAMMIT, MR. NOODLE

Justin's six years younger than I am. - Jenica

Thanks, ya'll. I was 6 mos older than my ex. Seems my latest crushes have been younger men. - Zulema ❧ spicy cocoa tart

Also, the best quote: "She noticed younger men, often raised by feminist women, were intrigued by and admiring of her success and experience, whereas older men seemed threatened and expected women to play traditional roles." - Zulema ❧ spicy cocoa tart

It's interesting to note that those exact same kinds of articles were also appearing some 24 years ago when my wife and I started going out. 26/32 at the time, BTW. - John Dupuis

this is food for thought... I tend to steer clear of men more than a few years younger, but maybe that's what I'm doing wrong. - t-ra: not givin up

My paternal grandmother was a cougar. So, not a big deal in our household - CarlC, spelling expert from Android

Eh, for me I've seen huge gaps on both sides. I don't mind it at all. My aunt is 12 years the senior, my paternal grandmother has dated men in a similar range (10+ years). I've never dated anyone younger than myself (3-22 months). Most of them in the other direction are at least 10+ years, my dad's 13 years the senior, and my stepdad is 29 years. Age is no big deal. - Gimminy

I'm six months older than Eric. - Elena

I do worry about younger men wanting kids when I'm mostly done having kids. Sure I'm healthy enough to have one more but do I want to? Kinda no. - Zulema ❧ spicy cocoa tart from FFHound(roid)!

I did end up having my kids younger than I might otherwise have. I was 30 & 32 when my sons were born rather than late 30s or 40s that a lot of my contemporaries experienced. The up side to that of course is that I'm only 50 and can already see an empty nest fairly close on the horizon. I have a good friend, he's same age and has a 5 year old. Can. Not. Imagine. - John Dupuis

50 with a 5 year old? Good grief. - Zulema ❧ spicy cocoa tart

I'm 4 days the elder to my wife. - Micah from FFHound(roid)!

John: sometimes, that's how life rolls the dice though. I'm in my 40's and our girls are 5 months and 3 years. - Stephan Planken from iPhone

Four years older than Joshy. The only time it's a problem is when he doesn't understand how awesome late 70's/early 80's music and tv were. - Headless Gnad Kicker

I'm 45 and I have a 7yo and a 5yo. Like Stephan said, that's how life is sometimes. - Stephen Mack #TeamMomo

My wife is 6 years older. been married almost 7 years. - Mike Nencetti

I am a whole 5 months older than my wife. Really helps when we discuss music and tv shows of the 80s. I've been with her for roughly 27 years, and married for 20, so I haven't really thought about age differences. But, I could see why older women might get more respect from younger guys. - Joe Boone

We did the typical. Husband is 8 years and 9 months older than I am (to the day). His maturity level was equal to mine when we met, I was 18. It sucks he will retire next year while I have a bit of time to work, the downside for me with the age difference. - Janet:#TeamMonique

I've got 2 years on Eivind. :) - Kelli H.

I'm catching up, though! - Eivind

I'm 4 years older than Eithne: and she never lets me forget it! :) - Son of Groucho

MWM is 9.5 years older than I am. It seems to be working out okay. :D - Pixie

I am married almost 40 years to someone who is 4 years older than I am but has always told people that he is 5 years younger than I am. - Berthe

Eivind, haha! - Zulema ❧ spicy cocoa tart

Sean McBride

Amazon Launches ‘Send to Kindle' Button For Web Developers & WordPress Blogs http://6sen.se/YJm6Tp

March 21 from Advanced Tweets - Comment - Like - Share

Berthe liked this

I'll have to figure this out. So, I can "send" it to my kindle (only FROM the kindle or from my laptop, too?) and then it will appear there like a book? So I can read it without wireless? Sorry if these questions are ridiculously elementary! - Berthe

This will work like Pocket (formerly Read-It-Later) and Instapaper: you will be able to click on articles and other documents in your Web browser (on your laptop, desktop, tablet, etc.) to send to Kindle where you can read them from any Kindle interface. Nice. (I suggested this feature to Amazon almost two years ago.) - Sean McBride

Sean McBride

This Is the Scariest Statistic About the Newspaper Business Today - Derek Thompson - The Atlantic - http://www.theatlantic.com/busines...

March 18 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

www.yakamozyakut.com, Betsy #TeamMonique, Berthe and Joe Boone liked this

"Here it is: In 2012, newspapers lost $16 in print ads for every $1 earned in digital ads. And it's getting worse, according to a new report by Pew. In 2011, the ratio was just 10-to-1. The digital ad revolution, always "just around the corner", remains tantalizingly out of reach for most newspapers, which explains why some stalwarts like the New York Times and Wall Street Journal have moved to subscription models for their websites to bolster digital ad growth. Just today, the Washington Post announced a paywall." - Sean McBride from Bookmarklet

7 more comments

Going, going, gone... - Sean McBride

I used to commute to NYC in the 80's and almost everyone on the trains bought at least one newspaper a day, sometimes 2 (morning Times or Daily News; afternoon NY Post). I took a rush hour trip to the city on Jersey Transit last year and I don't know if I saw even one person with a newspaper. Its a habit and people under 45 never acquired that habit, IMO. They can't charge for it on the... more... - Berthe

I first predicted the death of newspapers in the mid-1990s -- it was obvious which way the wind was blowing. Many traditional and mainstream media operations still don't get what is going on -- but they would love to crush the Internet. - Sean McBride

Will it be much of a loss if the big news outfits go out of business? I don't miss Newsweek. TVnetwork news is so manipulative and agenda-packed. The usual tactic is to omit or only mention once (Brittany Watts) while pounding other stories nightly (Trayvon Martin). Or just unserious. Why do they keep telling us who won the national spelling bee? Who cares about that? Or who shot a... more... - Berthe

If the mainstream media collapsed, dissolved and disappeared, the world would probably be much better off. Good riddance to a mostly idiotic institution that has been largely under the thumb of a handful of billionaires. Think of its performance with regard to the Iraq War. - Sean McBride

90% of the most useful information I absorb ever day is outside the narrow band of consciousness of reality as defined by the mainstream media. Thank God for the unshackled and free-wheeling Internet. - Sean McBride

Don't be scared: rejoice. - Sean McBride

From one agnostic to another: Thank God for the internet. I say it all the time. - Berthe

Sean McBride

Move Over Rosetta, It’s Time for Duolingo - http://urbantimes.co/2013...

March 17 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Greg GuitarBuster, Maitani, Berthe and 3 other people liked this

"I tried every app under the sun, I tried this entire list, but the same result ensued. Just a few days ago this all changed for good – I stumbled across Duolingo on the App Store (which was released on iOS in November last year) and it is safe to say, it stands as one of the finest works of user web and mobile technology out there." - Sean McBride from Bookmarklet

"34 hours of time spent using Duolingo relates to the same amount of learning as one semester at university." - Sean McBride

I know too many people who have a good level of fluency in several languages to believe that learning a new language is impossible. I'm pretty sure that I could reach a good level of fluency in at least two other languages fairly quickly if I were completely immersed. Learning the basics of a foreign language in high school and college served a purpose, but not having to speak or hear... more... - Todd

Todd

Barney Frank: European countries an afford welfare state because U.S. military protects them-- http://washingtonexaminer.com/barney-...

March 15 - Comment - Like - Share

Berthe liked this

Frank says that the U.S. needs to stop subsidizing Western Europe. Funny he says nothing about supporting Israel or fighting wars for Israel's security. - Todd

No doubt he's on board with the immigration push, too. We should have more discussion of the welfare state here because immigration "reform" will make it more expensive. Didn't the Israelis just kick out a lot of Somalis who were pickpocketing on the beaches? - Berthe

I know Israel has had issues lately with black Africans in Israel, which resulted in violence that would be covered with extreme urgency and prejudice anywhere in the West if whites were making an issue of non-white immigration or participation in society Israel also has a welfare state thanks to U.S. support. - Todd

Scoble, Alex Scoble

Today's date is a palindrome 3/13/13

March 13 - Comment - Like - Share

Iván Abrego, Berthe, Greg GuitarBuster and 11 other people liked this

You know what havoc ignoring the century and the millenium can cause. - Victor Ganata

8 more comments

Gregorian little-endian > Middle-endian - Johnny

Yeah, middle-endian is definitely the least logical of date formats. ISO 8601, people! - Victor Ganata

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... *throws Cyan colored gang sing* - Johnny

I like palindromes & I write my dates this way so I'm happy for all these palindromes in a row! - Starmama from FFHound(roid)!

Well, that's surprising. How did Belize end up with our weird order while no one else did? - Victor Ganata

Not sure. *calculates in metric* ;) - Johnny

Victor http://xkcd.com/1179/ +10 if you get the mouseover joke - Scoble, Alex Scoble

LOL - Victor Ganata

Yeah, I especially like the mouseover on that one...so cheeky - Scoble, Alex Scoble

Mary Carmen

From today's Daily Om:

March 9 - Comment - Like - Share

Greg GuitarBuster, Berthe, Starmama and 2 other people liked this

"What most people do not recognize is that the simple act of clearing one little thing with intention, every day, is more powerful and sustainable than binge-clearing a whole lot of things on the fly. By consistently clearing something small like a purse, a wallet, or even one paper clip off your chronically messy desk, you can bypass your brain’s fight-or-flight wiring system to such a degree as to create a sea change and a ripple effect of global proportions! Adopting a simple daily practice of putting away one thing, for example, or rounding up a small area for sixty seconds, every day, is not only soothing to the nervous system and can feel really good over time, but it’s one of the best ways I know to move energy that feels stuck in your home, head, and heart. " - Mary Carmen

Very true. Good way to clean the basement. - Berthe

Sean McBride

Jumping the Commie Shark: Ted Cruz's McCarthyism is Indicative of a Lost Party - http://www.politicususa.com/sen-ted...

February 23 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Occupy Racism, Berthe, www.yakamozyakut.com and 4 other people liked this

"The wild-eyed craziness of the modern day Republican Party is the result of their refusal to admit that they are no longer the party of fiscal responsibility or national security. They ceded both of those platform identifiers to the Democratic Party. All they have left is social issues, and those are running dry. So now we come to the imaginary list of Commies, being held by the guy whose dad fought with Castro, and who is anti-”amnesty”. The last hurrah. The man whose father fought with Castro thinks that he is more American and more patriotic than his political opponents. So American that he can accuse them of being Commies intent on overthrowing the US government and no one will laugh in his face. This is called jumping the Commie shark." - Sean McBride from Bookmarklet

191 more comments

Stick a fork in it (the GOP) -- it's done. A motley and bizarre collection of losers. - Sean McBride

So, what will the other party (we have to have 2) be like and what issues will they go with? - Berthe

Both Ted Cruz and Rubio have lied about their family and fathers background in Cuba....http://trailblazersblog.dallasnews.com/2011... - American

Which is typical.....'opporuntistic' immigrants usually make up a story when they go into politics. Cruz's claims his father fought with Castro but he actually left a year or more before Castro took over. - American

If either party were worth a damn, the opposing party would have died long ago. I don't see either party doing much for national security, domestic tranquility or the economy. My fear is that we're stuck with both parties because they need each other. - Todd

My take is that its all about power. The Republicans are not that unhappy as long as they hold onto the House of Representatives so they have to figure out issues to keep those seats. They also have governorships and state legislatures. There is a Republican governor and legislature in Michigan now even though Obama won the state and their 2 senators are Democrats. At this time, Detroit... more... - Berthe

Ted Cruz quote: "I'm Cuban, Irish, and Italian, and yet somehow I ended up Southern Baptist." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... Most Southern Baptists are Christian Zionists. - Sean McBride

The Hagel fight isn't about 'party power' ....follow the campaign money.......it's more about GOP senators filling their campaign coffers with special interest money to get re elected. - American

If John McCain hadn't already sold his soul long ago he would sell it now to be Sec of Defense----he is totally eaten up with envy and jealously when it comes to Hagel. Hagel is the real deal---McCain's war record is a media pr creation, the only thing McCain was famous for among his fellow flyers is being Grade A fuck up---and every single fellow POW imprisoned with him VN has denounnced him as selling out to the Viet cong for preferenial treatment. - American

Google [john mccain uss forrestal wet start]. - Sean McBride

My guess is that the Democrats will go too far with the class and ethnic/racial warfare, and we'll be back where we were in 1994, which is declaring the Democrats on the verge of extinction. The Democrats have their fair share of ideological loonies. Unfortunately, I don't think either major party is going anywhere, and that they would join ranks to fight bitterly against a legitimate third party, which is what they did when the original Tea Party emerged. - Todd

"Most Southern Baptists are Christian Zionists." I don't believe that to be true, Sean. Southern Baptists tend to be patriotic, and many have probably swallowed the same propaganda about the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq that many others around the nation have accepted at face value. I would say that it is also true that many Southern Baptists have a soft spot for Jews as "people of the... more... - Todd

There's this thing called Google: 1. southern baptists aipac 2. southern baptists antichrist 3. southern baptists armageddon 4. southern baptists christian zionism 5. southern baptists iraq war 6. southern baptists israel 7. southern baptists israel lobby 8. southern baptists scofield bible 9. southern baptists second coming 10. southern baptists zionism - Sean McBride

Google aside, I've known countless Southern Baptists and the Pentecostals, independent evangelicals and Church of God members are the crazies who are most likely to be real Christian Zionists. These people usually combine under charismatic and non-denominational leaders, and not as Southern Baptists. - Todd

My sister started going to Sunday school at a Southern Baptist church in Virginia last fall. It doesn't sound like its very political. More of a community thing where you bring cupcakes once in a while for the children. The children are very well behaved and polite. That would be reason enough to belong to that church, that your children will be incentivized to be polite and well behaved. - Berthe

Todd and Berthe: Google provides revolutionary opportunities to discover what is really going in the world, from both a macro and micro perspective, on the basis of huge quantities of factual data -- on a level that is far more reliable than depending on personal anecdotes and experiences within one's immediate environment. - Sean McBride

For instance, perform those ten Google searches above, study the top ten hits for each search, and take note of the most significant themes and patterns that emerge. Google is updating and revising its knowledge of the world every second in real time. - Sean McBride

One needn't make guesses about the relations between Southern Baptists and Israel -- one can data mine and graph those relations in detail and with precision. - Sean McBride

One useful approach is to extract the most salient quotes and facts from the hundred hits mentioned above. - Sean McBride

Google is only at the very beginning of its trajectory in its development as a research tool for understanding the world -- the possibilities have barely been scratched. - Sean McBride

Google doesn't replace reality. Go to a typical Southern Baptist church and to a Pentecostal church to see what I mean. Do you think that Gooogle would have reflected Soviet biases if it had been developed in the Soviet Union? - Todd

Todd -- the best way to understand the thinking of the Southern Baptist establishment and leadership is to read and analyze their key publications and statements. Google describes reality better than the opinions or experiences of any single individual. Did you bother reading and analyzing the top ten hits for the ten searches above? - Sean McBride

There are a lot of splits in the Southern Baptist Churches......bascially now sort of a 50/50 split among Southern Baptist.... Pres. Jimmy Carter for instance renounced his membership in one wing of the Southern Baptist because it had become too 'political and radical and moved away from Jesus's teachings'' according to him. .http://www.adherents.com/largeco...... more... - American

I've known countless Southern Baptists and have attended services at quite a few churches as a guest, and Israel was never an issue. Religion is not my cup of tea, but I've lived around these people my entire life, and it is among the non-denominational charismatic evangelicals, Pentecostals and Church of God where you find the rabid Christian Zionists.There may be some overlap with some Baptist congregations, but SBs are generally not the Christian Zionists. - Todd

Todd -- how many conversations have you had with Richard Land or Franklin Graham? With leaders of the Southern Baptist Convention? - Sean McBride

Franklin Graham and Richard Land don't rule the different churches with an iron fist. The traditions go back well beyond these two men. The televanglists shilling for Israel are generally not SBs. - Todd

A bit behind the cultural curve: "In 1995, the [Southern Baptist] Convention voted to adopt a resolution renouncing its racist roots and apologizing for its past defense of slavery, segregation, and white supremacism. This marked the denomination's first formal acknowledgment that racism had a profound role in its early and modern history." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... 1995? - Sean McBride

The Southern Baptist Convention's homepage is here: http://www.sbc.net Google [site:sbc.net israel] http://www.google.com/#q=site... - Sean McBride

Right Wing Watch: Southern Baptist Convention http://www.rightwingwatch.org/categor... - Sean McBride

"A bit behind the cultural curve:..." None of this is a secret. For the most part, SBs are very conservative socially, and they aren't the type of fanatics who would give money they don't have to Israel, or to fight, or send loved ones to fight, for Israel. Pentecostals are often dumb enough to do the first, and possibly crazy enough to do the second. FWIW, 40 years or so isn't really... more... - Todd

Is rightwingwatch anything like the SPLC? If so, it's a scam. - Todd

Regarding Southern Baptists and the Iraq War: http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Israel... QUOTE When you look at the facts rather than the Washington rhetoric, you find that Moran was even more right than it appeared at first. A study by Belief Net found that only the Southern Baptist Convention and some Jewish groups supported the military approach and every other listed... more... - Sean McBride

Which specific facts asserted by Right Wing Watch do you question? - Sean McBride

Do you believe that Southern Baptists and Jewish groups supported the wars for the same reasons? I don't deny that the SBs probably supported war in large numbers, but they most likely did so out of wrong-headed patriotism than out of Zionist loyalties. The Jewish groups certainly didn't support the wars out of patriotism towards the U.S., and that is a major distinction that should be made, - Todd

Isn't right wing watch associated with the SPLC? If so, I have no problem dismissing it as a dishonest group. I could live the rest of my life happily without ever setting another foot inside of a Baptist church, but I see no reason to exaggerate what Southern Baptists are, their history or anything else. As far as being behind the curve socially goes, I don't recall Jewish groups that... more... - Todd

Southern Poverty Law Center claimed that "We Are Change" - the 9/11 truth group - was a hate group, didn't they? - Berthe

Sean, I grew up Roman Catholic and I know that most Roman Catholics are ignorant of most of the doctrines, teachings, dogma, etc. of the Roman Catholic Church. Its just a fact. If they go to mass, they are day dreaming throughout the entire service. Thats why so many stopped going when they dropped the Latin; the English was distracting from their daydreaming. - Berthe

Gee, it bothers me that People for the American Way (which is Democratic-Party aligned) through its "Right Wing Watch" is monitoring Southern Baptists. That is a dagger aimed at religious freedom and the First Amendment if ever there was one. - Berthe

Here's the people for the American Way Board of Directors http://www.pfaw.org/about-u... They are probably all Obama donors. He's probably met them all personally. It is very creepy for them to be monitoring a religion. - Berthe

Here's Alex Jones on the SPLC's attack on We Are Change http://www.prisonplanet.com/the-sou... I trust Alex Jones more than I do Southern Poverty Law Center, Right Wing Watch or People for the American Way. Thats something to say, isn't it? - Berthe

Southern Baptists who have been prominent pro-Israel activists or militants: 1. Chuck Colson 2. Franklin Graham 3. Harry Truman 4. Jerry Falwell 5. Jesse Helms 6. Lindsey Graham 7. Mike Huckabee 8. Mitch McConnell 9. Pat Robertson 10. Richard Land 11. Ted Cruz - Sean McBride

A few famous ex-Southern Baptists: 1. Al Gore 2. Bill Clinton 3. Bill Moyers 4. Brad Pitt 5. Jimmy Carter - Sean McBride

Sean, Thats less than 20 people! Every big organization has a few stinkers. I don't see any heroes on list number 2, either. Al Gore has stuffed his pockets with sweetheart deal cash; Bill Clinton - ugh, I don't even want to get started; Bill Moyers was with LBJ while LBJ was escalating the Vietnam War, wasn't he?; Brad Pitt is just an actor; Jimmy Carter trotted that guy from BCCI around the world, giving him entree to loot foreign countries. - Berthe

Lyndon Johnson was well known to be morally, financially and politically corrupt way before he became president or vice president, too. It says something about Moyers that he wanted to work for a man like Lyndon Johnson at all. I wonder if he's ever been asked any tough questions about Johnson pre-presidency. Johnson was a crook and a scoundrel through and through way before the Vietnam War. - Berthe

You're missing the main point: what is the core ideological orientation of the Southern Baptist Convention as an institution and culture? Clearly it is one of the most reactionary and warmongering religious groups on the American scene -- and its attitudes and beliefs go a long way towards explaining the behavior of Lindsey Graham, Ted Cruz, Mike Huckabee, Pat Robertson and others like... more... - Sean McBride

Lyndon Johnson was a member of the Disciples of Christ, by the way -- not a Southern Baptist. - Sean McBride

In Googling around the history of the SBC, the following topics kept coming up: Civil War, Confederacy, creationism, curse of Cain, curse of Ham, fundamentalism, Iraq War, racism, secession, segregation, sexism, slavery, white supremacism. - Sean McBride

Sean, I wonder if Gore, Clinton, Pitt, Carter, Moyers have any core ideological beliefs or if they are just either mush minds who think they are goody goodies (Pitt and Carter probably) or opportunists who think they are goodie goodies (Clinton, Gore, Moyers). The mainstream media validates them, sure, but why should I? Regarding the Southern Baptists, if it is a religion, I say "Hands... more... - Berthe

Moyers sought out Johnson, long after it was clear to smart people that Johnson was a crook. Why? Would be interesting if he was ever asked. - Berthe

Personally, I've always believed that the South had a right to secede. The Union was entered into voluntarily so why should it be kept together by force? It is so weird that at the same time we are celebrating Lincoln for going to war to keep the country together and getting 600,000 Americans killed, the same people think Bashir Assad is a monster. - Berthe

And I just totally discount any racial sturm und drang from elite white people or elite people of any race. Its so much hypocrisy. They live in areas that are 90+% white and send their kids to private schools but they have their noses in the air about other white people not wanting to associate with black people. It is not accepting accountability for their own choices as choices. - Berthe

As soon as religious groups aggressively involve themselves in politics, they are fair game for intense scrutiny, criticism and vigorous opposition. If they want to be free from criticism, let them get out of politics. The Southern Baptist Convention apparently promoted the Iraq War more enthusiastically than any other religious group in the United States -- and it was a main backer of the Confederacy, slavery and the US Civil War -- that is why it included the word "Southern" in its name. - Sean McBride

What Gore, Clinton, Pitt, Carter and Moyers probably share is a loathing for bigotry, small-mindedness, racism, ignorance, provincialism, xenophobia, fundamentalism, biblical literalism, etc. - Sean McBride

Ted Cruz is expressing the militant Christian Zionism that seems to afflict so many prominent Southern Baptists in American politics -- including Lindsey Graham, Mike Huckabee, Mitch McConnell and Pat Robertson. Christian Zionism is a core component of their religious and ideological beliefs. The problem is with their defective ideology -- the same ideology that passionately defended slavery. - Sean McBride

Southern fundamentalists may have done more to drag down and disgrace the Republican Party than any other single group. As it turned out, the Southern strategy backfired in the long run -- the GOP is now too mired down in and trapped by this backward culture to set itself free and get back on a sane track. - Sean McBride

Sean, you made the comment that most Southern Baptists are Christian Zionists, and that is not true. The Christian Zionists are usually found in the charismatic churches, which are usually Church of God, Pentecostal and assorted independent and non-denominational groups. Ted Cruz is a Cuban opportunist, and Pat Robertson's appeal is largely among the charismatics. The same is true for... more... - Todd

Sean, I don't think a Southern fundamentalist would pass national party muster. No Southern populist, neo-Confederate or anyone wishing to represent regional interests first would be promoted by the national party. The problems are with opportunists who get their marching orders from Washington and New York. - Todd

re Clinton, etc. sharing a loathing for ignorance, etc. Well, if they do, theres a tremendous amount of sanctimony, ignorance and bigotry in them doing so! - Berthe

Todd, thats how I see it, too. The Israel stuff is all opportunism. We might look for who is really responsible for where we are, that the incentives are all in being an Israel fanatic and the disincentives are all in saying a peep the other way. I really do not think its the Southern Baptists or even the Pentecostals, etc. who I strongly suspect of being paid off, the leaders anyway. - Berthe

Berthe, neither Southern Baptists nor Pentecostals are behind the wars or support for Israel. Pentecostals are far more likely to be real Israel fanatics and Christian Zionists, but they are really a fringe group with no real power even locally. Baptists build hospitals while Pentecostals struggle to fund summer camps. - Todd

Everything about the Christian fundamentalists who now dominate the Republican Party radiates (reeks of) authentic ignorance, sincerity and mindless fanaticism -- they really believe the nonsense they spout -- this is a matter of irrational ideology for them, not pragmatic political or financial payoffs. This is the same kind of ideological extremism which forged the Confederacy and instigated the Civil War. - Sean McBride

Two Southern Baptists -- Lindsey Graham and Ted Cruz -- led the charge to try to destroy Chuck Hagel on behalf of the Israeli government and the Israel lobby. They rank among the very worst zealots who have ever served in the US Senate. I strongly doubt that Todd and Berthe paid close attention to their performances during the recent Hagel hearings. - Sean McBride

Come on, Sean, I've probably seen more of Lindsey Graham than you have, since he's almost a local where I live. I don't know Graham, but I seriously doubt that he is devoutly religious, and is probably a SB more by culture and birth than by belief. Lindsey Graham is more like other members of congress than he like his constituents. Cruz is probably more of an opportunist being born of... more... - Todd

I haven't judged all Southern Baptists as a whole -- only their leadership and institutional beliefs and policies. They have a horrific track record historically, for well over a century, and those precedents explain much of their current behavior. What is your personal stake in this discussion? You are relentless in trying to explain away the known facts about leading Southern Baptists. Why? - Sean McBride

Wikipedia on the Christian right concerning race and diversity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... QUOTE The conclusions of a review of 112 studies on Christian faith and ethnic prejudice were summarized by a study in 1980 as being that "white Protestants associated with groups possessing fundamentalist belief systems are generally more prejudiced than members of... more... - Sean McBride

Wikipedia on the Christian right and Israel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... QUOTE The Religious Right has given very strong support to the state of Israel in recent decades, encouraging support for Israel in the United States government. Some have linked Israel to Biblical prophesies; for example, Ed McAteer, founder of the Moral Majority, said "I believe that we are seeing prophecy unfold so rapidly and dramatically and wonderfully and, without exaggerating, makes me breathless." END QUOTE - Sean McBride

Google [christian fundamentalists republican party] http://www.google.com/#q=chri... - Sean McBride

Sean, I don't know what your hang-up with the Confederacy is, but that has nothing to do with current politics. The Confederacy was not an ethnic or messianic religious movement, but was mostly grounded in power and control of resources. Who woulda thunk? You really don't understand how the Confederacy is viewed by many Southerners. They don't view secession as unpatriotic. Most... more... - Todd

article; TITLE GOP insider: Religion destroyed my party AUTHOR Mike Lofgren DATE August 5, 2012 PUBLICATION Salon.com SUMMARY A veteran Republican says the religious right has taken over, and turned his party into anti-intellectual nuts URL http://www.salon.com/2012... - Sean McBride

QUOTE [Mike Lofgren] The results of this takeover are all around us: If the American people poll more like Iranians or Nigerians than Europeans or Canadians on questions of evolution, scriptural inerrancy, the presence of angels and demons, and so forth, it is due to the rise of the religious right, its insertion into the public sphere by the Republican Party, and the consequent... more... - Sean McBride

QUOTE [Mike Lofgren] Bachmann, Rick Perry, and numerous other serving representatives and senators have all had ties to Christian Dominionism, a doctrine proclaiming that Christians are destined to dominate American politics and establish a new imperium resembling theocratic government. According to one profile of Perry, adherents of Dominionism “believe Christians—certain... more... - Sean McBride

Todd -- the Confederacy was very much a religious and messianic movement based on a racist ideology derived by Southern Baptists from the Old Testament. Do your homework. - Sean McBride

The culture of Bible-based racism that produced the Confederacy is still very much with us. At the moment Christian fundamentalists are directing the brunt of their bigotry and hatred at Muslims and Arabs, but they could easily shift their focus back to African-Americans and Jews. Many of the vicious attacks on Barack Obama coming from this quarter already have the distinct flavor of classical Old South racism. - Sean McBride

Generally, Todd, people who try to make effective arguments rely on articles, books, charts, facts, journals, polls, quotes, scholars, statistics, timelines, videos, etc. -- not vague personal impressions. - Sean McBride

Sean, plenty of Northerners spoke of God's providence and white superiority well after the Civil War. So what? That's what some people do. Still, you have to ignore almost every issue of the time to call the Civil War a religious or race war. - Todd

"Baptists and the American Civil War In Their Own Words" http://www.civilwarbaptists.com/ - Sean McBride

Sean, you've given Wikipedia links and links to partisan sites. You've hardly made an academic argument yourself. Besides, I'm not talking about vague personal impressions. I'm talking about actually sitting in different Southern Baptist churches and knowing countless actual Southern Baptists. At some point reality has to come into play. I get the fact that you don't particularly like... more... - Todd

I've read enough about the Civil War to understand that religion wasn't the issue. I'd go with the claims that the war was a conflict between Gaelic and Saxon cultures before I bought the religious angle, and I don't by the Gael v. Saxon theory, either. - Todd

My disagreement isn't with Southerners, non-ethnic whites or Protestants -- it's with Christian Zionists, Christian fundamentalists and Dominionists who are trying to inject their wacky ideas into contemporary American politics. Many people, including quite a few Republicans, agree that they have ruined the Republican Party. - Sean McBride

In any case, Chuck Hagel withstood the onslaught from Cruz, Graham, Inhofe, Vitter and the rest of that crew, and is still standing. They lost. - Sean McBride

Sean, the likely outcome was always that Hagel would be confirmed. There was something else going on. Probably some part was so that Obama wouldn't get any credit for his "bipartisanship" putting Hagel in such a top spot. - Berthe

You're right that I didn't pay much attention to Cruz and Graham. If they behaved like complete loons, I still would be skeptical that their being Southern Baptists had anything to do with what they said to or about Hagel. - Berthe

Honest question: Does anyone know of any Catholic politicians being questioned about the pedophile priests and the cover-up? Was Obama and Romney's attendance at the Al Smith dinner scrutinized in light of the cover-up, like, how could they associate themselves with a church that did that? - Berthe

Your analogy doesn't work: militant Zionism is part of the explicit and core doctrine of Southern Baptists and quite a few other Christian fundamentalist groups -- as was racism and slavery not long ago. No wonder Southern Baptists were so so eager to officially sign on to the neoconservative campaign to go to war against Iraq. - Sean McBride

You haven't been paying attention -- the Hagel controversy was almost entirely about Israel. Read back issues of Mondoweiss for the full documentation concerning what just transpired. - Sean McBride

More useful Google searches: 1. southern baptists civil war 2. southern baptists confederacy 3. southern baptists curse of ham 4. southern baptists ku klux klan 5. southern baptists old testament 6. southern baptists racism 7. southern baptists segregation 8. southern baptists slavery 9. southern baptists white supremacy - Sean McBride

This book was just published: c[book; AUTHOR Alvin L. Carpenter TITLE Southern Baptists and Southern Slavery: The Forgotten Crime Against Humanity DATE 2013 AMAZON http://www.amazon.com/Souther... SUMMARY The Southern Baptist Convention is the only denomination to have been created from the idea that the African, by biblical decree, was... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, I don't think anyone believes that Hagel will make policy regarding Israel or Iran. Statements Hagel made about Israel or were convenient tools to make him squirm. - Berthe

Obama selected Hagel for SecDef because they share the same views on Israel and Iran -- what could be more obvious? - Sean McBride

Anything to do with Southern Baptists and racism or anybody and racism I shrug off. Our entire society is race-conscious. Blacks, Whites, Hispanics, Asians --- everyone is race conscious and no one group more than the others. (Edited after thinking about it: black people are probably the most racist; that seems to be proven out. I'm STILL being pc to say that no one group is more race conscious than any other.) - Berthe

Some people, groups and ideologies are much more racist than others; some aren't racist at all; some are anti-racist. These discriminations matter in human affairs. - Sean McBride

Black people are probably the MOST racist. What to make of that? Not just voting 90%+ for Obama, including precincts with 100% Obama voting. Not just that. But any city in the country where blacks become a majority and will only vote for a black for local government. In the black cities, they vote for the most corrupt black politicians over and over. In Newark there was a black mayor,... more... - Berthe

In view of the now indisputable, complete, through and through racism of blacks, we gotta let go of this castigating ANY white people for racism, Sean. Its just absurd, even laughable. The most "racist" white people are about as racist as the ordinary, average black person. Its just a fact, sorry to say. - Berthe

You seem to be arguing that the entire world is racist and that therefore no one needs to be held accountable for promoting racist attitudes, beliefs, policies and crimes. I have no idea about how you arrived at this position but most people I know would strongly disagree with you. You've even given the impression that you support the Confederate cause -- the very same cause that fought violently to defend the institution of slavery. But it's a free country -- believe whatever you like. - Sean McBride

Sean! What I said was the Southern states had a right to secede. Having entered the Union freely why did they not have a right to leave? Why keep them in the Union by force at a cost of 600,000 dead and many times that number wounded (Lord, what was it like to be wounded before penicillin.) Thats a legal issue, I guess. It was resolved by the war, victor's justice. I think I am... more... - Berthe

As for holding people accountable for promoting racist attitudes, as someone who tries to see truth and not political correctness, I don't see the point of it because there would be no end to it (for an honest person who doesn't see racism as only the purview of white people, something innate in white people). Jesse Jackson, Eric Holder, Barack Obama, Chris Matthews, Bill Clinton, and... more... - Berthe

On what grounds would you object to Confederate slavery, Nazism, South African apartheid, etc. -- if any? - Sean McBride

Sean, would you sign up to go to war to end it? I would not. I would not want any of my loved ones conscripted to fight it either. - Berthe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... Draft riots in New York during Civil War --- why on earth should they die to end slavery???? This is the nub of being for liberty, personal liberty --- you own your own life, imo. - Berthe

War is worse than slavery, unless you're a slave. - Greg GuitarBuster

After the war there is usually famine so the slaves might well be worse off, too. - Berthe

So you have no objections to slavery, Nazism, apartheid and human rights abuses and crimes committed in the name of a racist agenda? - Sean McBride

No objections, me??? I tsk tsk about everything, I'm sure. But die for any of it, no. - Berthe

Not being religious, the logical thing is for me to put my own life and the lives of my loved ones as the first priority, provided we aren't hurting anyone. We're not committing any sins of commission and I don't believe in sins of omission (because where would it end? I should give up everything above the bare necessities if I believed you could do wrong by not acting.) - Berthe

"I don't believe in sins of omission (because where would it end?...Berthe"......"This is the nub of being for liberty, personal liberty --- you own your own life, imo. - Berthe".......Hmm, there is something seriously wrong with you. - American

Yeah, American, I am so sure you spend half the year risking your very life for others! Ha. I was born at night but not last night. No way I believe that anyone commenting here is any more of a hero than I am. - Berthe

Well as it happens Berthe I have risked my life, twice in my life--the first time was swimming out into a rip tide to save a girl from drowning, I won't go into the other incident, too long....not to have done so would have been a act of ommission. Perhaps some day you will be in a situtation and no one will bother to save you....I repeat, something is wrong with you. The kind of selfishness you are expressing is off the charts. - American

American, I donate blood every 2 months. The hardest part is the parking at the hospital but since I do it regularly still, I am making more of a sacrifice than you are making to have rescued someone years ago!!! Thats a ridiculous thing to say, that you did something once or twice and that gives you moral authority to call for other people to be conscripted and sent to a war for YOUR causes. - Berthe

You might succeed in persuading some people who read your comments that you are not simply a hardcore and uncompromising libertarian but also anti-black, anti-gay, anti-Latino, anti-women, pro-Confederacy, pro-Nazi, pro-segregation, pro-slavery, pro-white supremacist, etc. An association with those positions is not going to be helpful for the future of the GOP -- that is why the... more... - Sean McBride

Sheesh. Sean, I think I said somewhere here that I voted Libertarian for President, though I am not ideological, just that I thought that was the 3rd party that might get the most votes hence my vote makes a statement. - Berthe

I think I've also said that I'm not interested in persuading anyone, just speaking my mind. If people cannot or will not deal with what I'm saying directly and go off on some association tangent, so be it. I know that I am speaking for truth, justice, good will and equality for all. - Berthe

Sean, was ending slavery worth your life? This is not a suggestion because I would not want you to be in danger. There are places in this world where slavery still exists and you could take up arms to fight it. Didn't Hemingway go to fight in the Spanish Civil War? And the Lafayette Brigade in WWI. Lord Byron fought for Greek independence from Turkey. If someone wants to do it, then its... more... - Berthe

I think there was no conceivable way that thoughtful Americans could continue to support slavery in the mid-19th century. The Confederacy (and Southern Baptists, based on their peculiar reading of the Bible) bet on slavery and paid a heavy price for misreading the world around them -- they got on the wrong side of history. The current GOP is also on the wrong side of history. Many of... more... - Sean McBride

Two things: (1) If I've shown any "support" for the "current GOP," I haven't been expressing myself well. My interest is where will the politics take us because we are a 2 party country. Ross Perot got almost 20% of the popular vote in '92 but not a single electoral vote. Independents can win governorships or mayoral elections but cannot win control of state legislatures. The House of... more... - Berthe

(2) Theres a big difference between supporting slavery and not fighting and dying to end it it. The slavery issue doesn't really deal with whether it was morally right to hold the union by force at a cost of 600,000 lives lost in the war, probably millions of wounded and the destruction that caused starvation. Thats why we have wars and will always have wars: the elites don't let those costs much into the discussion. War is to be seen as glorious and noble. - Berthe

In the New York Draft riots, the Irish immigrants targeted the homes of prominent abolitionists. One might wonder what those abolitionists were doing owning homes (and presumably living in those homes) rather than fighting on the front lines. - Berthe

I still don't see any evidence for the claim that most Southern Baptists are Christian Zionists. My direct experiences tell me otherwise. Southern Baptists have been around much longer than Israel or political Zionism, so Zionism isn't a tradition for SBs. As far as slavery goes, many slave owners used Greek and Roman civilization to justify slavery. I'd also assume that slave owners... more... - Todd

Sean, as much as you dislike white Southern culture and bitterly dismiss it as backwards and illegitimate, it seems odd to me that you ignore the totally corrupt, virulently racist, completely backwards and often anti-Western black culture that rules most major Southern cities with the U.S. government as its enforcer. I don't believe that any group should be treated differently under... more... - Todd

Slavery and economics from wikipedia link about the NY draft riots "New York's economy was tied to the South; by 1822 nearly half of its exports were cotton shipments. In addition, upstate textile mills processed cotton in manufacturing. New York had such strong business connections to the South that on January 7, 1861, Mayor Fernando Wood, a Democrat, called on the city's Board of... more... - Berthe

Todd, yes, weren't we here before not so long ago talking about the premise that Republicans are the party of stupid people. Aren't there some numbers that the less educated/least educated are more likely to vote for Democrats? Comedy Central/Saturday Night Live think its politically correct OK to ridicule white people - working class or middle income white people - as morons and jerks rather than the often crazy antics and stupidity of black people. Thank God for the internet. - Berthe

http://voices.yahoo.com/preside... "As a point of probable interest, seven of the ten most educated congressional districts are partisan Republican districts and three are partisan Democratic districts. All ten of the least educated congressional districts are partisan Democratic districts." - Berthe

' A veteran Republican says the religious right has taken over, and turned his party into anti-intellectual nuts..." That doesn't ring true. Paleoconservatives have been writing about the neocon takeover of the Republican party and conservative movement for decades. Have the yokels driven the neocons out with pitchforks? That might not be such a bad thing! - Todd

I agree, Todd, not a bad thing for "yokels" a/k/a ordinary people to have a say. There is such a thing as common sense wisdom. The immigration "reform" will be the test and we'll see it in the House of Representatives. Can common sense stop it or will the elites of the Republican Party who want cheap labor be able to ram it through in collusion with the elites of the Democratic Party... more... - Berthe

Berthe, I agree with you on the immigration issue. The yokels aren't supposed to have a say on anything, and that includes having blame for wars and disastrous policies shoved on them, which is really what most of the CZ talk really boils down to. - Todd

"[Slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts." Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America - Sean McBride

God bless the internet. Here is someone's nicely written take that slavery would have ended before 1900 without the Civil War, as the Industrial Age came in. http://voices.yahoo.com/would-s.... Another way to look at the use of the bible to defend slavery: "Starting in the 1820-1830's the Southerners were looking for excuses to justify... more... - Berthe

From the same yahoo voices article: "During the mid to late 1800's another producer of cotton rose up, thus making the need for slaves decline. India was growing in the cotton business fast, exporting, 102 metric tons in 1850, 250 in 1863 and 326 in 1905. India was a less expensive exporter for England, thus causing the cotton industry of the South to die naturally due competition. The... more... - Berthe

c; thesis; TITLE Role of the Southern Baptist Chaplains and Missionaries in the Civil War AUTHOR Michael L. Bineham DATE 2003 DISTRIBUTOR DTIC (Defense Technical Information Center) URL http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin... - Sean McBride

Sean, I read 10 pages into the thesis and will read it all. Its an interesting paper. I note beginning at bottom of Page 8 and continuing to Page 9 that English Baptists wrote American Baptists urging against slavery and the reply "pointing out that slavery was introduced into the colonies against the wishes of the colonists, and that some progress was already being made in moving away... more... - Berthe

It's no surprise that a Southern elite politician backed slavery or used religion to do so. That's kind of like a 20th or 21st century U.S. politician using the word freedom or egalitarian platitudes. Still, I doubt that most Baptists wanted a slave society, and most didn't own slaves. Jefferson Davis wasn't a Catholic, but he did have ties to the Catholic church. Had there been no... more... - Todd

Todd -- your opinions on these issues have little credibility or impact because they are unsupported by facts or cites of any kind. You seem to be in denial about the role of Christian fundamentalism in fostering a racist and militaristic culture in the South that is very much alive in the present day. Southern Baptists like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Mike Huckabee, Lindsey Graham,... more... - Sean McBride

QUOTE Examples of Christian leaders combining political conservatism with Christian Zionism are Jerry Falwell [SOUTHERN BAPTIST] and Pat Robertson [SOUTHERN BAPTIST], leading figures of the Christian Right in the 1980s and 1990s. Falwell said in 1981: "To stand against Israel is to stand against God. We believe that history and scripture prove that God deals with nations in relation to... more... - Sean McBride

"Todd -- your opinions on these issues have little credibility or impact because they are unsupported by facts or cites of any kind." Sean, this isn't an academic exercise, and you aren't my professor. Some things don't need citations. Most SBs are not Zionists as you claimed with no proof at all. The Civil War was fought over regional differences that largely had nothing to do with... more... - Todd

Todd's right Sean and you're wrong about religion in the Confederacy and Civil War. I think you're spending too much effort on the religious track like with Judaism and zionism in the Israel issue---the truth is in many things like Judaism in zionism or Baptist in the confederacy, the religious fringes that might be involved or allude to religious teachings in either is never the whole... more... - American

American -- I think you and Todd need to look much more deeply into the nature of the Civil War by reading the best scholars on the subject -- something I have been doing while pursuing this discussion. I was surprised to discover that the Civil War was one of the most notably religious wars ever fought in the annals of warfare, with Northern Christians (including Northern Baptists)... more... - Sean McBride

How does the motive of material self-interest explain the fanaticism of Southern Christian Zionists in agitating for a never-ending series of disastrous and bankrupting American wars against the enemies of Israel in the Mideast? It doesn't. They are gaining nothing from these wars and are losing a great deal. They are being driven primarily by their fundamentalist biblical beliefs,... more... - Sean McBride

You know, if you took the trouble to pursue some basic Google searches on this question, and to peruse the results with an open and inquiring mind, you might learn a few things. Give it a try. For instance, Google [us civil war religion] pushes this important essay to near the top of the results: [article; AUTHOR James Howell Moorhead TITLE Religion in the Civil War: The Northern... more... - Sean McBride

QUOTE [James Howell Moorhead] First, the [Northern] churches emphasized that the Union had to be preserved because of the special place that America occupied in world history. With its republican institutions, democratic ideals, and Christian values, the United States supposedly stood in the vanguard of civilization's forward march. The success of the Confederate rebellion would imperil... more... - Sean McBride

"Wikipedia: Origins of the American Civil War: Religious conflict over the slavery question" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... QUOTE Protestant churches in the U.S., unable to agree on what God's Word said about slavery, ended up with schisms between Northern and Southern branches: the Methodists in 1844, the... more... - Sean McBride

"You know, if you took the trouble to pursue some basic Google searches on this question, and to peruse the results with an open and inquiring mind, you might learn a few things"...sean".......WHOA fellow!--if you could figure out which historians to read you might realize how far into the religious loony pit you are falling. For whatever reason you are OBSESSED with religion and... more... - American

Regional economic and political differences makes more sense as a reason for the war than religious or humanitarian motives. I'll go with the view that the South was trying to avoid being the losing end of a mercantile system. What happened after the war is more telling than cherry-picked quotes from before the war. The North experienced the Gilded age, while the South was mired in... more... - Todd

Continued.......The Civil War for the South was fought over SLAVERY AS A ECONOMIC ISSUE, THAT FELL UNDER STATES RIGHTS. It was not a fucking religious issue except for religious fanatics IN THE NORTH, it became a issue with the publication of Stowe's Uncle Tom's Cabin and so be.came a 'social issue' with the religious in the North. BUT this only happened AFTER Northerners were NO longer... more... - American

Short form...Religion only played a part in slavery for the fucking religious. 99.9% of the war on the part of the South was..once again...,FOUGHT OVER SLAVERY AS A ECONOMIC ISSUE AND STATE'S RIGHTS.....YES, the big players in the South wanted to keep slaves as labor to enrich themselves to be able to COMPETE ECONOMICALLY with the North. The fucking religious freaks were as usual a fucking side show to the war. - American

IF you want to understand the REAL reasons--the slavery issue, the economic issue, the state's rights issue.....READ Foote and McPherson--they are ranked as the top 2 Historians of the Civil War. QUIT reading Reverends and Religious authors and Wiki contributiors WHO WANT TO MAKE IT ALL ABOUT RELIGION. Trying to understand the Civil War that way is about as accurate as reading Netanyahu's father on Jewish history. - American

American -- one can see that you are highly exxited about this subject (with all the uppercase shouting). The US Civil War wasn't exclusively about either economic issues on the one side or religious issues on the other side -- but about a complex entanglement of economic, religious, social, cultural and ethnic issues that historians are still trying to figure out and place in their proper relations -- this is an ever-evolving field of study. - Sean McBride

American -- why did the formerly Confederate states continue to defend racism and segregation on ideological and religious grounds for quite a few decades after they were crushed by the North in the Civil War? Was their post-Civil War racism driven primarily by economic or ideological factors -- or something else? The Southern Baptist Convention didn't admit the error of its ways on these issues until 1995. - Sean McBride

American -- are you trying to argue that John Hagee's and CUFI's many followers are being by driven by economic and not religious motives in demanding blind obedience to the Israeli government? John Hagee is a classical Southern Bible-thumping fundamentalist from the great (and formerly Confederate) state of Texas. So this is all about economics? How so? - Sean McBride

To refocus and remind you about why I am looking into this topic: it has caught my eye that many of the most conspicuous and aggressive agitators for World War IV and the Clash of Civilizations are Christian evangelicals from formerly Confederate states -- and they were especially conspicuous during the Chuck Hagel hearings. I would like to understand what makes them tick. My impression... more... - Sean McBride

Wikipedia on George Wallace, "states' rights," segregation, racism, etc.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... QUOTE Wallace was elected governor in a landslide victory in November 1962. He took the oath of office on January 14, 1963, standing on the gold star marking the spot where, nearly 102 years earlier, Jefferson Davis was sworn in as provisional president of the... more... - Sean McBride

More on Wallace from Wikipedia: QUOTE Wallace desperately wanted to preserve segregation. In his own words: "The President (John F. Kennedy) wants us to surrender this state to Martin Luther King and his group of pro-communists who have instituted these demonstrations." END QUOTE The red-baiting is interesting -- especially in light of Ted Cruz's recent similar line of attack on the... more... - Sean McBride

"American -- one can see that you are highly exxited about this subject (with all the uppercase shouting). ..sean""...No I am just fustrated that you are portraying the religious angle as the "Cause" of the war or as one of the main 'drivers' of the war in the South...it wasn't. The issue was slavery but it was about the economics, not religion..for the "Decisions Makers" in the South. - American

What you are doing is trying to say/prove that the religious fundmentalism you see today in those like Graham was the religious fundmentalism that created slavery and made the South fight for it and caused the Civil War. What you aren't grasping is that although the religious fundmentalist of 1860 and today may be the same---- the actual reason and causes of those Southerners who led... more... - American

American -- are you trying to argue that John Hagee's and CUFI's many followers are being by driven by economic and not religious motives in demanding blind obedience to the Israeli government?..sean"...No, that's dumb, they are religious whackos. But they are not driving the US Israel war mongering any more than they drove the Civil War. I keep telling you they are a side show, not a... more... - American

Religion also did not drive the American Revolution and was not why America was 'founded' as some religious like to claim. A wacko group of Puritans who fled Europe to burn witches in Mass. is not representative of the MAJORITY of colonial immigrants reasons for coming to the Colonies. ..the irish for instance didn't flood over here for religion they came because of political wars and... more... - American

BTW, you will not find a Southerner who considers Texas part of the South..it was never considered 'part of the South' by the South and still isn't. Texas doesn't even consider itself part of the South...Texas has always considered itself not part of anything but itself. It's a whole different culture from the South. - American

Re "segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever" ---- you could look around America and thats pretty much the state of things. Is Birmingham, Alabama more or less segregated now than when Wallace was governor? Lord, how many times have politicians told us we need a "national conversation about race" and the truth of why race is important to Americans is exactly what cannot be talked about. 90% of Americans know the name "Trayvon Martin;" not 5% know the name "Brittany Watts." - Berthe

American -- non-rational cultural factors -- religion, ethnicity, race, regionalism, etc. -- play a much more important role in human affairs than you imagine, in my opinion. Most people are much less rational than you think they are, and the masses in particular are easily pushed this way and that by appeals to religious, ethnic, racial and regional loyalties. Truly rational minds try... more... - Sean McBride

American -- Texas was a member of the Confederacy and is a hotbed of contemporary Christian Zionism and secessionist chatter. How do Texans and, say, Arkansans differ on basic cultural values? What attitudes and issues divide, say, Rick Perry from Mike Huckabee? During the Chuck Hagel hearing, Ted Cruz (Texas), Lindsey Graham (South Carolina) and David Vitter (Louisiana) came across as three peas in a pod. From the standpoint of most Americans, they all seem to hale from a foreign nation. - Sean McBride

Berthe -- on the subject of segregation: what one notices in contemporary American society is that the most successful institutions -- the key drivers of American competitiveness and prosperity -- are the most intensely diverse and integrated -- Microsoft, Google, Stanford, MIT, Harvard, etc. This is a realm that the George Wallaces among us can't begin to comprehend. Segregationists can't handle the real world -- it's much too challenging for them -- too cognitively complex. - Sean McBride

"... what one notices in contemporary American society is that the most successful institutions -- the key drivers of American competitiveness and prosperity -- are the most intensely diverse and integrated" "Segregationists can't handle the real world -- it's much too challenging for them -- too cognitively complex." Sean, you need to understand that the real world is far more than the... more... - Todd

"Segregationists can't handle the real world -- it's much too challenging for them -- too cognitively complex." This is where you are wrong. I don't believe that there is a solution to competition among groups or the fact that some groups don't fit together very well, and can't run a society when combined. The segregationists understood that much, and cities like Detroit, New Orleans,... more... - Todd

" why did the formerly Confederate states continue to defend racism and segregation on ideological and religious grounds for quite a few decades after they were crushed by the North in the Civil War? " The de facto segregation of the North wouldn't work in the South. The general view is that Reconstruction soured race relations in the South for generations. Putting former slaves in... more... - Todd

I think Todd hit the nail on the head: I am pretty sure I would not have any problem living near white Southern Baptists. Not being a politician, I can admit that I chose to live where I live because I feel safe here and the demographics are key. Its virtually all white. (A few Indian families, probably. A lot of Indians in New Jersey.) I know that my neighbors next door and across the... more... - Berthe

Berthe -- just a note: I wouldn't have any problem living near white Southern Baptists per se -- I am sure most of them are fine people. But I would prefer that Southern Baptists like Lindsey Graham, Ted Cruz. Mitch McConnell, Pat Robertson and Mike Huckabee not dominate the Republican Party with their particular ideological and policy agenda. They are much too provincial to play that role. - Sean McBride

Sean, I might find all of those folks pretty antipathetic but finding equally antipathetic counterparts on the Democratic side is as easy as pie. Joe Biden, Robert Menendez, Jesse Jackson, Ed Rendell, Hillary Clinton, Chris Matthews, Ed Schultz, Rachel Maddow, Anderson Cooper, ---- Oh, gee, I could go on and on with people on the other side who are enough to make me nauseous. Just horrible human beings! We have to put up with them being shoved in our faces all the time. - Berthe

Todd -- actually, you are right: there continue to be important racial problems in American society that won't be solved by imposing the culture of elite research institutions as a social model -- that really would be pie in the sky. Detroit is not going to be able to transform itself into Palo Alto, CA or Cambridge, MA. In many areas of the country, Americans continue to be ethnically... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, is the diversity in those most successful areas by design, i.e., do they deliberately set out to have that diversity via "affirmative action" to be diverse or do they hire and promote on merit and the diversity and integration occur as a natural result? - Berthe

American -- the role of religion in the American Revolution -- now there is a big and complex topic. There is more there than you may appreciate -- too much for me to get into at the moment. - Sean McBride

Berthe -- the diversity in those high tech environments is driven by the need to find the best possible minds and talents that are available worldwide to perform particular jobs -- the criteria are ruthlessly meritocratic -- much like in professional sports -- Americanism at its purest. The resulting integration is an organic and natural development -- not based on the artificial top-down imposition of policies (like affirmative action). If you can't play, you can't play. - Sean McBride

I used to be sort of for affirmative action -- not with much enthusiasm -- but no longer. There is no room for it in the fast-paced world we live in. Talent must prevail and be rewarded without regard for identity politics of any kind. (Asians are underrepresented in the NBA -- should we use affirmative action policies to rectify this injustice? :)) - Sean McBride

"the diversity in those high tech environments is driven by the need to find the best possible minds and talents that are available worldwide to perform particular jobs -- the criteria are ruthlessly meritocratic -- much like in professional sports -..sean"....I would agree with that, however I don't think that is the case in a lot of other fields. Particulary when it comes to areas like the political, banking, media and publishing world. . - American

American -- in the fields you mention, there is probably still a good deal of not-so-meritocratic tribalism and provincialism in play -- but it is increasingly to difficult for institutions to succeed or even survive in those domains without a strong focus on cultivating the best universal talent -- hungrier and more talented players will take them down if they slack off at all. - Sean McBride

Sean. I had smething for you on Southern Baptist but lost the file somehow....anyway you are aware aren't you that most southern Blacks are Baptist?....always have been. If you want to investige the religious angles of the south you should research why blacks were ever Baptist to begin with considering Baptist were pro slavery and stayed Baptist....I don't have time now to go into it ,... more... - American

American -- the Wikipedia entry on the SBC (Southern Baptist Convention) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... covers this subject: QUOTE Slavery in the 19th century became the most critical moral issue dividing Baptists in the United States. Struggling to gain a foothold in the South, after the American Revolution, the next generation of Baptist preachers... more... - Sean McBride

" Talent must prevail and be rewarded without regard for identity politics of any kind." I agree with this statement 100% The only possible exception I could have is that I believe that the U.S. should do all it can to develop talent at home before searching abroad, and that is not being done. It's highly unlikely that all of the talented and intelligent people are moving in elite circles, so it's very likely that talent is being overlooked or ignored. - Todd

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Thomas Page

Thomas - re the wikipedia page on "ethnocultural politics" in the 19th century - those are divisions among white European-origin people in that time period that aligned different Christian sects with one or the other party. In the last 50 years theres been huge social/cultural change and massive immigration from non European places. So many more ethnocultural divisions than a hundred... more... - Berthe

Post civil rights polarity shift of some elements of political parties while others remained to be controlled by the shifted ethnocultural influences? - Thomas Page

Thanks for that link, Thomas. - Greg GuitarBuster

Thomas --- doesn't it seem like thats what happened in the south in the last 50 years? There wasn't much of a Republican party in the South until white southerners polarized as Republicans post 1960s. Will that eventually happen outside the south if/when whites feel/realize their interests are antithetical to all of these other demographics? - Berthe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... enlightenment - secular compatiblity ? ps 3 -9 wasp influence of party - polarity shift http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... melting pot , polarized alloy , http://www.lexipedia.com/english... http://www.lexipedia.com/english... http://www.lexipedia.com/english... ,... more... - Thomas Page

re that wikipedia entry mentioning the Supreme Court and no protestants on the court any more --- I do wonder how the protestants feel about that. Odd that they aren't ever asked (by polling). Also, it is so odd that Sotomayor isn't considered "white," isn't it? She looks to be the whitest one on the Supreme Court. http://www.zimbio.com/picture... - Berthe

Berthe -- are these the questions you are asking? --- Should people of white Protestant or white European Christian heritage worldwide and in the United States have a right to be as emotional and aggressive in the defense and pursuit of their cultural values and economic interests as Jews, blacks, Latinos, Asians, Arabs, Indians, Muslims and other cultural groups are in theirs? If not, why not? Which cultural groups have an innate right to focus on their self-interest? Which groups don't? - Sean McBride

Googling into WASPs [wasps *] blacks, david brooks, decline, elena kagan, hispanics, immigrants, jews, kevin macdonald, meritocracy, minority, mondoweiss.net, philip weiss, richard brookhiser, ross douthat, stewardship, supreme court, wikipedia - Sean McBride

Sean, well put. I ran across this Voltaire nugget the other day, "To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." There are a lot of white people in this country who - really - had very little opportunity to go to college (because they had to earn some money) who are told they have had "privilege" over the groups you mentioned. They even had privilege... more... - Berthe

One should be very careful about stoking the flames of ethnic resentment and conflict -- we all know how that political dynamic usually plays out -- with bloodshed, human rights atrocities, war crimes, mass deportations, mass murder, genocide, etc. But it is also impossible not to notice that many middle-class white Americans now feel like their backs are against the wall and that they are facing a grim future in a nation they once thought they owned and controlled. - Sean McBride

In my opinion, its the Democrats who have stoked the flames of ethnic resentment. Stoked them real good, too. Every kind of resentment. Go back to the calumny heaped on any politician who didn't support making Martin Luther King day a national holiday. What the heck was THAT besides stoking ethnic resentment? But I actually leave that aside and am more interested in what the distinct... more... - Berthe

Or try voting against the "Violence Against Women Act" --- Oh, you gotta be a woman-hating monster to oppose whatever the heck that is, which will not prevent any violence against any women but most likely shovels federal money to some select people. - Berthe

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013... - In my opinion, only a moron would think that some politician who votes against a "violence against women act" is anti woman and likes "violence against women" but thats what the Democrats and the pro Democrat media have shoveled at us for years and years. But I'm interested in WHEN and HOW the reaction... more... - Berthe

How much U.S. debt do the Chinese hold? - Greg GuitarBuster

How much U.S. debt do the Chinese hold? I think its a lot but have no idea where to look to find the exact up-to-date current figure. We're relying on them to keep buying, as well as the other "yellow man," the Japanese. The debt must matter or the Democrats wouldn't want to raise taxes, would they? Of course, its possible that the call for raising taxes is just the usual Democratic thing of stoking resentment and envy. - Berthe

http://original.antiwar.com/buchana... - Berthe

Stephen Mack #TeamMomo to Stephen's feed, Lovefest, Get Fit - Be Active, Fitbit Fans

PROJECT: Let's Get Tamara To Her Fundraising Goal -- 66% there, she needs $755 more by May 1st. She's running a FULL MARATHON to raise money for cancer research. EDIT: 100%!!!!!!!!! WE DID IT! THANK YOU FRIENDFEED! - http://pages.teamintraining.org/ocie...

March 7 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Pixie, Anne Bouey, #cryptic and 26 other people liked this

Hey beautiful FriendFeeders, Tam is running a FULL MARATHON to raise money for cancer research. But if she doesn't hit her $2,200 goal by May 1st, she can't run and she owes the difference to Team in Training. She's so supportive and loyal and has helped out many of us here, so let's make sure she reaches her goal! Many thanks to those of you who have already donated. Any bright ideas for how we can get her the rest of the way there? http://pages.teamintraining.org/ocie... - Stephen Mack #TeamMomo from Bookmarklet

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More discussion here: http://friendfeed.com/express... - Stephen Mack #TeamMomo

oh yeah I 4got. .what tthe tally now ? Wow its 66%.. comeon FF'ers we can do it !! - Peter Dawson

70% now. :) - Hookuh Tinypants

Woo-hoo! - SteVe C

What?!? Stephen, you're awesome. Thanks so much! I'm humbled! $655 left to raise! <3 - Tamara J.

Yay! - Stephen Mack #TeamMomo

I'm at 78%. $475 to go!! Thanks so much, FFers. I love you guys. The donations are awesome and definitely make me and my cause feel supported, but that's not the reason I said I love you. When anyone is in need, whether it be because they've had a bad day, lost a loved one, down on their luck or whatever, this great group of people always rally to comfort and support each other with no expectations in return. Each of you are a gift to this community and I'm glad to be a part of it. - Tamara J.

WOOT! - Stephen Mack #TeamMomo

Yay! - Jennifer Dittrich

Run like the wind, pretty Tam Tam. :) - Steven Perez

Now at 86% and $300 to go! - Hookuh Tinypants

Can I donate a bead for sale? - Shannon - GlassMistress

For a split second I thought you said bread and I was like OH HELL YEAH FF BAKESALE! :D - Hookuh Tinypants

I could do bake sale, lol (just not sure its wise to do cash at this juncture) - Shannon - GlassMistress

You guys are amazing. My heart swells with gratitude and love. I'm at 89% with $250 to go. I wish I could personally hug each of you who have supported me. I promise not to let you down and give my all to running this race for the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society. We're funding a cure and that's exciting. Thank you all, again. <3 - Tamara J.

WOW! That is amazing. <3 You go on with your bad self, Tam! You are doing something wonderful and it's hard to not want to support that in some way. :) - Hookuh Tinypants

I'm amazed! Great job all, this is such a wonderful community. - Stephen Mack #TeamMomo

done. :) - Jeff (Team マクダジ )

94%! $140 to go. Wouldn't it be cool if we brought in the rest of that while she's in surgery? - Hookuh Tinypants

"surgery"?... where have I been? - MoTO #TeamMonique

Moto: http://friendfeed.com/express... - Stephen Mack #TeamMomo

95%! And now just $100 to go! - Hookuh Tinypants

Now 97% and just $75! OMG OMG OMG! - Stephen Mack #TeamMomo

YAY!!! - Kelli H.

yeahhhhhhhhhhhh !! lets go Team FF - Peter Dawson

99% :D - Jennifer Dittrich

o_0 - Peter Dawson

99%. $2175 down, $25 to go. Let's break this bank, y'all! - Hookuh Tinypants

DONE DONE DONE!!! WOO HOO!! - Stephen Mack #TeamMomo

100%! GO TAM! GO FRIENDFEED! #kermitflail - Stephen Mack #TeamMomo

*fistbump* Mr. Mack bringing it home. :D All you people rock. Seriously effing rock. <3 - Hookuh Tinypants

I'm in tears. Just 1 day after I posted this, you did it. I love you all so much. Many thanks, FriendFeeders. - Stephen Mack #TeamMomo

<3 - Kelli H.

100 % !! Way to Go Dudette's n Dudes !! Lub u all - Peter Dawson

Now how about a road trip to San Diego on June 2nd to act as a cheering section.... :D - Hookuh Tinypants

srly ?? the run is Jun 22nd ? thats like lightyears away.. and the goal was reached so soon ? - Peter Dawson

#oohHookuh, don't tempt me. - MoTO #TeamMonique

I bet we could bribe at least Stephen into joining us. We'd be the Hookuh-Moto-Mack Road Show! - Hookuh Tinypants

I just died. - MoTO #TeamMonique

^ Then who wrote this...? :) - Stephan Planken from iPhone

Sean McBride

Thou shalt not commit logical fallacies - https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/home

March 7 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

American and Berthe liked this

This is nice. Thanks for this one, Sean. - Berthe

Neat!....I 'm gonna use this! - American

Betsy #TeamMonique

French Toast Alert System | Universal Hub - http://www.universalhub.com/french-...

March 4 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Soup in a TARDIS and Berthe liked this

"The French Toast Alert System has been developed in consultation with local and federal emergency officials to help you determine when to panic and rush to the store to buy milk, eggs and bread." - Betsy #TeamMonique from Bookmarklet

Maitani to Maitani's feed, About Books & Literature

The Sweet Troubles of Proust by Colm Tóibín | NYRblog | The New York Review of Books - http://www.nybooks.com/blogs...

February 22 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Reiner Grißhammer, Terra Barselonevî, ufuk and 5 other people liked this

"A specter haunts the exhibition of Proust’s notebooks, manuscripts, and correspondence currently running at the Morgan Library. It is the specter of Proust’s mother. As you move from left to right in the room, the photograph of maman with her two sons, which appears first, sends a shiver down your spine. Mme Proust is seated, looking to the left, while her sons, young men in their twenties, stand on either side of her. They are beautifully dressed and have a look in their eyes that suggests the boulevard and the salon. There is something feline and sleek about the pair of them." - Maitani from Bookmarklet

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"It is easy to imagine why maman is so dour-looking and disapproving, her mouth firmly closed, her eyes fixed on the ground. She is a woman who knows what trouble looks like, and these boys are ready for trouble of the most sweet and tender and pleasurable kind. As your eyes wander back to them, you can see that Marcel is more nervous about himself, his gaze not as comfortable as that of his brother Robert." - Maitani

"The first letter sets the scene. It is written to Marcel from his mother in 1895 when he is twenty-four and in Dieppe with Reynaldo Hahn. She is concerned about what time he goes to bed and what time he rises. Her letter is a demand for precise information. So she writes Couche and leaves a blank for him to fill in and then Leve and leaves another blank. Perhaps it is too fanciful to... more... - Maitani

I'll have to read it. Interesting. I wonder how important mothers really are. I'm very close to my daughter but my mother was a mystery. I don't think I ever had what I would call a real conversation with her. No topic ever went any where. And I spent a lot of time with her even as an adult. - Berthe

Don't like to make too much of pictures, though. I always look like I'm being held hostage. - Berthe

Amit Patel

Why is the US in so much debt? - http://np.reddit.com/r...

February 23 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Maitani, Berthe, imabonehead and Stephen Mack #TeamMomo liked this

Reddit's "Explain Like I'm Five" is interesting. - Amit Patel from Bookmarklet

I'm gonna read it all. - Berthe

Sean McBride

The best way to learn foreign languages is through the patterned repetition of the most common brief sentences -- sentence-based.

February 21 - Comment - Like - Share

Kelli H., gltnkrtl, April Russo and 5 other people liked this

Sort *language sentences by frequency of occurrence. - Sean McBride

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We learn words best by associating them with other words -- with their semantic networks -- with their most frequently cooccurring words. - Sean McBride

No. I know many people here in Germany who are in the situation you described, but they either have just a very basic grasp of the language, or their competences are specialised as to their communicative needs. I think Sean's assumption is right. Would be interesting to hear from people who tried something like that when learning a particular foreign language. - Maitani

This is a toughie. I don't think theres an answer; its such an individual thing. Most native English speaking people in the US have no need to learn a foreign language and will never use the foreign language instruction they had to take in high school, just a fact. Its hard to say whats an effective way of learning (or teaching) something useless but big. - Berthe

Learning foreign words individually, in isolation, is inefficient. Learn them within the context of their most natural and frequent word cooccurrences and clusters. - Sean McBride

Sentences are semantic assertions and propositions about the world which describe conceptual and functional relations among objects and entities. - Sean McBride

cristo -- yes, the sink or swim method -- connect language learning to the satisfaction of pragmatic and immediate needs -- that can be effective (although within certain limits). But it is difficult to create that kind of learning environment. - Sean McBride

I've looked at at least six methods closely: Berlitz, Duolingo, Mango, Memrise, Pimsleur and Rosetta Stone. My experience is that a sentence-based approach, right from the start, is more efficient for plunging into a foreign language than a word- and phrase-based approach. Duolingo may be my favorite method at the moment -- but it needs tweaking. - Sean McBride

Google needs to build up lists of the most frequently occurring sentences in all languages. That would be a valuable database to exploit for many projects and purposes. - Sean McBride

Words acquire meaning and semantic richness and resonance by their associations with one another -- by their types of relations and the proximity and intensity of those relations. Sentences specify and describe those relations. - Sean McBride

Duolingo is here: http://duolingo.com/ - Sean McBride

When learning a new sentence, one should have the option to: 1. hear repetitive pronunciations of the sentence by multiple native speakers at both slow and natural speeds 2. hear repetitive pronunciations of each word and phrase in the sentence by multiple native speakers at both slow and natural speeds 3. see the pronunciation of words in the sentence in simple English syllables 4. see... more... - Sean McBride

No current foreign language learning method incorporates all these techniques. - Sean McBride

Learning a foreign language is much like learning to play tennis or the piano -- it's all about developing automatic muscle and nerve memory -- repetition, repetition, repetition. The process is as much physical as conceptual -- perhaps more physical than conceptual. One must establish well-worn neural pathways. - Sean McBride

Google challenge: sort English sentences in the New York Times from 2000 through 2012 by frequency of occurrence -- sort English sentences in *domain *time by frequency of occurrence. - Sean McBride

I've been thinking about this. You might have something there, Sean. I think of 2 sentences I learned at least 50 years ago in very first language classes that stick with me: "Il faut que j'aille a la bibliotheque." - the subjunctive! and "Essen in freien schmekt gut." Of course, everyone knows "La plume de ma tante est sur le bureau de mon oncle." - Berthe

So, learning by sentences isn't new. But it certainly has not been developed as a way to teach foreign language. - Berthe

The trick is to start with the most frequently occurring sentences -- which are the most simple and most practical -- and build from there in a systematic way towards more complex and less frequent sentences. Learn new vocabulary in the context of learning new sentences. - Sean McBride

I think most school language courses want to teach students to read and write, i.e. to read novels and to write essays. This is probably a bad effort for most people. I have no need to read a book in French and I should rather find a good translation. - Berthe

Did you mean "Essen im freien schmeckt gut" -- Food tastes great outdoors? - Sean McBride

I remember my 11th grade French teacher having us read "La Symphonie Pastorale" (Gide) and "L'Etranger" (Camus). It seems absolutely ridiculous to me, honestly and just shows that the principal wasn't supervising her. The themes of those novels would have been inappropriate if we had understood them. She also had us read Madame Bovary which I remember getting the English translation for so that I could understand it. A great book and should be read in the reader's native language, not as an exercise. - Berthe

Yeah, "outdoors" or in the fresh air. - Berthe

What was Rosetta Stone like? What is their method? - Berthe

Another "short" method to combine with actual sentences could be to memorize poetry and use recordings by actors. It would give the learner a sense of the language, the atmosphere of the language. - Berthe

One should see "La plume est sur le bureau" (the pen is on the desk) long before seeing "La plume de ma tante est sur le bureau de mon oncle" (The pen of my aunt is on the desk of my uncle). - Sean McBride

Rosetta Stone is organized around matching images and photos with foreign language words and phrases -- it works quite well up to a point, but it has its limitations. - Sean McBride

Simple poems (especially rhyming poems) spoken by native voices with strong character is one fast track into the heart of a foreign language. - Sean McBride

I know quite a few very bright young people who took several years of foreign language (usually Spanish) in school --- usually beginning in 5th or 6th grade and then starting over with Spanish I and Spanish II in high school. But they couldn't pass a proficiency test when they went to college so had to take Spanish I and Spanish II again. Then they did a study abroad for a semester. And... more... - Berthe

Google challenge: 1. sort *language words by frequency of occurrence. 2. sort *language phrases by frequency of occurrence. 3. sort *language sentences which mention *word by frequency of occurrence. 4. sort *language sentences which mention *phrase by frequency of occurrence. Drill yourself in the most frequent sentences for the most fequent words and phrases. - Sean McBride

I am not sure if it is Rosetta Stone but there is one language course that advertises on TV that has a guy say something in French that is unintelligible. I think he's saying, "J'aime quand je parle francais" but I am not sure. There must be a demand for learning languages or there wouldn't be TV advertisements. - Berthe

Some people learn foreign languages simply because it is fun and mentally stimulating -- it keeps your mind sharp. Many other people need to learn foreign languages as quickly as possible for professional reasons. - Sean McBride

The real question here: can we use scientific and quantitative methods to discover and develop the most efficient techniques for mastering foreign languages (or any knowledge domain). - Sean McBride

Semantic Web folks tend to be strongly interested in the underlying conceptual structures and processes which connect all natural languages. That is where I am coming from on this topic. - Sean McBride

Thats a good question. Math is another one. The schools do such a poor job and theres where the money is to design the method. But I despair that it can happen given the entrenched obstacles. If I was designing a foreign language course, I would do the sentences, interchangeable words, memorization of words, short poems (poems on the level of Poe's "The Raven" - every language must have... more... - Berthe

Repetition of sentences with variations on single elements within the sentence: example: [The *person-type ate a mango.] 1. The girl ate a mango. 2. The boy ate a mango. 3. The man ate a mango. 4. The woman ate a mango. 5. The doctor ate a mango. 6. The lawyer ate a mango. 7. The teacher ate a mango. 8. The aunt ate a mango. 9. The uncle ate a mango. And: [The girl *eat-tense a mango.]... more... - Sean McBride

Sounds good - Sean, are you working on something? I remember trying the Duolingo and the problem was with advancing to the next level because it required you give them the exact response they had in their program. It didn't work. - Berthe

Europeans are much more proficient at foreign languages than Americans because they have a greater practical need to use them. - Sean McBride

With Duolingo, I can quickly figure out the exact response it is looking for. My main complaint: Duolingo moves too slowly. I want the option to accelerate the rate of progress. I only need to see a sentence a few times to lock it up. - Sean McBride

Bottom line: future foreign language learning methods are going to be sofware-centric, algorithm-centric and machine-learning-centric. The user interface will count for a great deal. Traditional textbooks are out. Personalized smart interactivity is the name of the game. The "tutor" will learn about you as you learn from it, and it will continuously adjust its behavior to optimize your learning. - Sean McBride

has any1 tried Memrise.com ? - Peter Dawson

I have -- I am still evaluating it now. - Sean McBride

Yes, I thought so too, Its too slow. I hope you're right and that foreign language instruction will improve using those new concepts but my gut reaction is that it won't. Its been a long time that they could have progressed from text books and what we are talking about above was always available. Most foreign language instruction will be in schools and the structure of exams and homework will not allow for innovation, I think. - Berthe

Re: Memrise: some good concepts, but the overall interface is too clunky and slow -- it needs to be refined and sped up. - Sean McBride

Old school methods -- who cares? :) Interesting minds will breeze right past that clutter with innovative methods. - Sean McBride

In the 90's I was thinking that computers would revolutionize secondary school math instruction because you could do problems over and over and get immediate response to show you where you went wrong or to tell you you have mastered something. It hasn't happened. These are wonderful tools, I am sure. - Berthe

Sean, if you are working on something, I want to pass along the idea of using fables. There are good recordings of fables and they are short and have a point that is easy to understand. In fact, thats another one I remember from 50 years ago: Maitre Corbeau sur un arbre perche lui teint dans son bec un fromage. - Berthe

Fables are a higher level of abstraction than I am focused on at the moment: atomic sentences, not narratives and stories. Master sentences, and stories will automatically fall into place. - Sean McBride

The issue here: the precise cognitive science of foreign language learning. - Sean McBride

You might find this interesting http://www.designandanalytics.com/Learnin... - Greg GuitarBuster

cristo -- regarding childhood native language learning -- doesn't repetition play an important role, along with practical (and needy) interactions with the real physical world around one? How often does one first hear the words mommy, daddy, milk, etc.? - Sean McBride

cristo -- regarding learning programming languages: perhaps the greatest impetus and motivator is having some urgent problem one wants to solve or some interesting idea to implement. One focuses on and masters the techniques that will permit one to solve the problem or implement the idea. It needs to be personal -- hooked up to one's imagination -- not purely abstract and "textbook." - Sean McBride

Greg -- great article! Right on point. - Sean McBride

Greg -- this is where Adam Hogan and I differ -- I think we need to focus on prioritized SENTENCE lists, not prioritized word lists -- although prioritized word and phrase lists are part of the mix. - Sean McBride

Google has the resources to apply Big Data mining methods to sentences and foreign language learning in the same way that is has applied Big Data mining methods to advancing the science of speech recognition. - Sean McBride

cristo -- what I am thinking is that the data mined by Google about the most frequent words, phrases and sentences among all the languages in the world could be used by designers of foreign language learning methods to optimize the learning process. - Sean McBride

cristo -- picture an endless series of sentence-based flashcards scientifically prioritized by importance (frequency of occurrence by language users in the real world). - Sean McBride

I can't picture Sarah Palin learning anything. Not doable. - Sean McBride

The domain of language is more amenable to systematic and atomic decomposition than the domain of foreign policy. The pieces are easier to identify and combine formally. - Sean McBride

That is an entirely different line of research -- and a very important one. Eventually we may download or plug knowledge packs directly into our brains. The approach I am suggesting is doable now. - Sean McBride

Another way to look at this: smart personal assistants may become so capable that there will be no practical need for us to master knowledge in many or most domains -- our "guardian angels" will handle whatever comes up. - Sean McBride

Well, Duolingo and Mango are essentially using variations on the flashcard approach (mastering one knowledge atom at a time in an organized way), and I find this works for me and many people I know. What products do you recommend? - Sean McBride

One key element: making "flashcards" incredibly powerful and full of useful features -- including audio, images, video, mouseovers and popups for auxiliary and background information, etc. We are not talking about traditional and static text-only flashcards. - Sean McBride

I have used Pimsleur a great deal (mostly while driving) to get into three or four languages. I'm a big fan. But it has many limitations compared to multimedia flashcards. Its patterned repetition algorithms are especially interesting. When you think about it, the Pimsleur approach is based on audio-only flashcards -- one small item at a time. - Sean McBride

What I am talking about is more like next-generation Duolingo and Mango than Rosetta Stone. - Sean McBride

Pimsleur uses the same question/pause/response format as flashcards. In fact, it would be easy to convert Pimsleur to multimedia flashcards -- the backbone is there. - Sean McBride

If you want to drive, use audio-only mode for multimedia flashcards -- they will have several modes of interaction. - Sean McBride

I need to think about your theory. Regarding Pimsleur: it's not based on a comprehensive scientific understanding of sentence frequencies in real world language usage. Pimsleur lacks the data. - Sean McBride

In order to conduct conversations in a foreign language, you need to be able to understand and form sentences. The question is, what is the quickest and most efficient route to that mastery. Of course, conducting conversations pushes along the learning process. - Sean McBride

Limitations of Pimsleur: I often want to see the spellings of words and their grammatical background. It's unidirectional. Multimedia flashcards should be conceptually multidirectional -- provide the ability to explore the full context of any word or phrase. - Sean McBride

If you are waiting for a flight, have a good trip. - Sean McBride

Hope you're off to an interesting destination. - Sean McBride

Your favorite destination of all, I trust. - Sean McBride

Peter -- main impressions of Memrise: 1. word-based, not sentence-based (a minus) 2. the memory aid system gets in the way -- I don't need it 3. like the audio 4. needs to move much faster. - Sean McBride

Sentence-based along with some sort of immersion or regular usage seems to be the best way to go. Downloading knowledge packs directly into the brain sounds interesting, but how safe would that be? The benefits are obvious, but would there be any drawbacks? - Todd

Todd, I don't think I'd volunteer to be the first! :) - Berthe

Berthe, I seems dangerous to me, but I know that scientists have been monkeying with the brains of chimps, dogs and other animals for years with interesting results. I'd just hate to be the example where mistakes were made. - Todd

Why physically implant knowledge in human brains that can be easily carried around in one's pocket, wallet, eyeglasses or hat? - Sean McBride

A more interesting question might be, can we genetically engineer species with superhuman intelligence? - Sean McBride

Sean, I guess your second question gets to the heart of your first. The ability to use information, whether implanted or carried around still depends on the limits of the individual. That's the same with computer hardware and software compatibility. As a non-superhuman, I don't know if I like the idea of superhumans. I'm sure attempts have been made, and it would be an impressive achievement. But I think some things should be left undone. - Todd

Nothing that can be done will be left undone -- that seems to be human nature. A dangerous personality trait I know, but that's who we are. - Sean McBride

The question is, how can one optimize drill, practice and repetition by prioritizing exposure to particular sentences (and particular words and phrases) in the most effective way? What is the quickest and least wasteful method to achieve mastery of a foreign language? - Sean McBride

That's a good question. I'm not sure what the answer is, but it would have to include learning the basics of grammar and some immersion with native speakers who are well spoken and current with the language. I would think the process is easier if you are already bilingual. - Todd

The question can be answered with data science and access to enough data -- Google is in a better position to answer this question than anyone -- and I suspect it will within the next few years. - Sean McBride

The big picture here: thinking about questions of foreign language learning from a data science perspective leads one into all kinds of interesting issues regarding text mining, computational linguistics, statistical linguistics, natural language processing, machine translation, etc. The topic is about much more than foreign language learning -- it's a useful pathway into a nexus of closely connected natural language issues. - Sean McBride

But it would also be neat to be able to master a foreign language with the absolute minimum time and effort necessary by learning the most important elements in the most effective sequence. - Sean McBride

Andrew C (✓) to Andrew's feed, US Politics

Recent History Is Still History - Esquire - http://www.esquire.com/blogs...

February 19 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Steven Perez, Greg GuitarBuster, Berthe and 6 other people liked this

"Except for the rancid race-baiting and manic xenophobia, nothing has been aimed at this president that wasn't aimed for nine years at Bill Clinton. In place of birtherism, we had Vince Foster and the Mena airport. The insular conservative media within which people today talk about the president's Kenyan roots and his disguised Muslimhood was formed around the hot central core of conspiracy theorizing and preposterous slander that shaped the reaction to the Clinton presidency. In almost every respect, Bill Clinton was, you should pardon the expression, the Big Bang that created the closed universe of conservative thought in which the base has come to thrive." - Andrew C (✓) from Bookmarklet

101 more comments

"The base is going to be a problem for Republicans even if they lose 15 elections in a row, because the base is not on the same plane of existence in which the rest of the party, and Karl Rove, spend their time. The problem with the Republicans is not extremism. It's alienation of the most profound sort." - Andrew C (✓)

I followed the Vince Foster case and the truth is that the mainstream media rushed to defend the Clinton Administration and make it look like the Republicans were being terrible, terrible to him. When they learned of Foster's death, a whole group of White House Counsel and upper level people like Hillary Clinton's Chief of Staff rushed back to the White House and invaded Foster's... more... - Berthe

Their excuse for being there was so lame. They went into Foster's office in order to be together or some such emotional crap. They were not close friends with Foster. They had known him a few months. He was handling Clinton personal matters, though, including the Whitewater development matter, which is an interesting item for how the mainstream media will hold some politicians... more... - Berthe

So, what were all those Clinton Administration lawyers really doing in Vince Foster's office? They held together and kept telling Congressional committees the same ridiculous story. We still do not know what they were doing in that office on the night Vince Foster died. Theres a pattern there with this Benghazi matter, people keep telling Congress things that are patently ridiculous so that no one is held accountable, truly accountable, not just "I take responsibility." - Berthe

I don't care about the Clintons one way or another but this Benghazi crap by MCCain and Graham is pathetically stupid. Here is the most damning thing you can say about Benghazi-----US intelligence should have been on top of the ALQ like elements in Libya and the St.Dept should have 'anticipated' those elements might use the Mohammad 'film' as a rallying point for the embassy attack. But... more... - American

@Berthe - ah, you're one of the Foster conspiracy theorists too, huh. - Andrew C (✓) from Android

5000 american troops dead and 500,000 Iraqi and it was all aBush/Cheney/Rove lie and you want to talk sbout vince fucking foster... are you friggin stoned? - WarLord

As for Benghazi, Berthe, my friend passed along the point ( https://www.facebook.com/photo... ) that under GWB there were TEN embassy/consulate attacks totalling 60 deaths and Republicans NEVER expressed outrage, because let's face it, Benghazi is just another manufactured outrage for the rubes and it's only because a Democrat is President right now. - Andrew C (✓)

Andrew, why do leap to see someone as a partisan rather than as a seeker of wisdom and truth? - Berthe

War Lord, if you are talking to me, I didn't bring up Vince Foster! I think that was Andrew. I was commenting on the excerpt that Andrew highlighted. Seems there is no dispute that I am correct about what, in fact, happened regarding the investigation of Vince Foster's death and the actions of people in the Clinton White House on the night Vince Foster died. - Berthe

Andrew, I don't know what your point is about the embassy/consulate attacks that happened when Bush was president. None of them killed an ambassador, which seems to be the reason the Benghazi attack gets attention, no? The attack on the consulate in Benghazi went on for hours, didn't it? It wasn't that the ambassador was killed by a bomb. - Berthe

God bless the internet and internet commenters doing research. Heres a comment about those attacks under Bush (and I know I have to say it because of the silly attack that if you criticize Obama you must love Bush: I never voted for Bush and couldn't stand him!) Anyway, heres what the commenter says: "Not helpful at all. Streching and spinning facts destroys credibility. This makes it... more... - Berthe

"Andrew, why do leap to see someone as a partisan rather than as a seeker of wisdom and truth?" - because some "seekers" are fucking lunatics. - Andrew C (✓)

GWB. "Bin Laden determined to strike U.S." more than a month before 9/11. Almost 3,000 people killed on American soil. Come on, Benghazi is total bullshit. - Victor Ganata

Epistemic closure is a much better descriptor than Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. It's too fucking stupid to be dignified with the term "conspiracy". - Victor Ganata

And my scorn for right wing conspiracists isn't just a pure partisan attack. We have a president who has basically announced due process is unnecessary and has outright murdered people publicly to great fanfare, including U.S. citizens, and you want to talk about fucking Vince Foster?!? It's flabbergasting. You wanna impeach him, impeach him for that and not for these stupid allegations... more... - Victor Ganata from iPhone

"I didn't bring up Vince Foster! I think that was Andrew." -- it was my quote/extract, yes, pointing out that the insanely stupid birtherism of today was foreshadowed by the idiotic Vince Foster conspiracy theories of yesterday. - Andrew C (✓)

Andrew, you and I both know that the top Democrats supported the Iraq War and the mainstream media was gung ho for it. My memory goes back decades before yours (probably) so I remember they all supported the Vietnam War, too. Over 58,000 Americans killed (including boys I went to high school with) and over 300,000 wounded (not going to get into the millions of dead and wounded... more... - Berthe

Victor, I don't buy one iota of the official version of 9/11! I could write on and on boringly about it but instead just pass along my own personally persuasive aspect that the official story is a lie: The Bukharis. Adnan and Ameer Bukhari. One had been dead a year when he was reported by CNN to be involved in the plot. The only possible explanation is that someone was collecting Muslim/Arab names. Wikipedia has a good summary. - Berthe

Victor, I agree with every word about Obama. Rand Paul is the only one asking for an explanation of why Obama assassinated Awlaki's 16 year old American citizen son in a separate attack, i.e., not collateral damage. But there are people whose reaction would be to leap on Rand Paul for being a "Tea Partier." Very convenient for Obama to avoid accountability for killing a 16 year old at a barbecue. - Berthe

Andrew, my first comment shared with you the facts of the Vince Foster episode because I know that the mainstream media turned this into a "partisan witch hunt" in the public's mind. But it wasn't that. What happened was that highly educated people from elite law schools paraded before Congress and stonewalled Congress with a ridiculous story that they returned to the White House at... more... - Berthe

Helloooo.....you all should just agree that 99% of our ruling class are incompetent as well as fucking criminals......BECAUSE they are.....Republican- Dems - Tea Partiers ,it makes no fucking difference. And let tell you something else----people who "join up" with one party or another like fucking sheep because 'they think' that party represents what they think are fools. ALL of the... more... - American

American, thats . . . sort of . . . my point. :) - Berthe

Can't help but care about history and truth or else we really are living in that "1984" world. - Berthe

I'm not buying it. They managed to cover up a murder, but couldn't cover up an extramarital affair? That just doesn't seem credible. Frankly, I think that's preposterous. I'm still astounded by the idea of bringing up Vince Foster while completely eliding the fact that the Bush administration completely fabricated the WMD claim that convinced Republicans and Democrats that war with Iraq was necessary. But, of course, both sides do it. Naturally. Right. - Victor Ganata

Did you know that 45% of 'registered voters" are now registered as unaffiliated? That means that both the Dems and the Gop can represent only 25% +or - respectively or one quarter each of all voters......which bottom lines means that Dem and the Repubs are FRINGE parties. And congress has a 8% approval rating....hellooo.....does this not tell us all we need to know? - American

No, it doesn't, because unaffiliated people are really "decline to state". They still vote Republican or Democrat when they show up at the polls. There aren't any other realistic choices. The approval rating for Congress overall stinks, but if you look at individual Senators and Representatives, their approval ratings are ridiculously high. Everyone thinks Senators and Representatives all stink except their own. - Victor Ganata

Victor - I have no idea what the truth of Vince Foster's death was, honestly. What happened back in the 90's was that high level Clinton Administration people were called to testify to Congress and they stonewalled about THEIR OWN actions on the night of Foster's death. People lie for a reason, no? By the time of the Congressional hearings, there was already a Whitewater Special Counsel... more... - Berthe

Anyway, if you can't see the epistemic closure of Fox News and other sources of right wing propaganda, then I highly doubt you're really interested in truth. - Victor Ganata

Victor, theres lots of propaganda coming at us. If I only look for "right wing" propaganda, I'm making myself into a real patsy to be misled. - Berthe

If anything, in these last few election cycles, people who consider themselves "independent" are really conservatives who are so thoroughly disgusted with the Republican Party that they don't want to identify with it, even though they still voted for McCain and Romney and other establishment Republicans. That's the reason why right wing predictions for the last election failed so utterly: they thought there were actually more independents to win over, without realizing they had already won them all over. - Victor Ganata

If you really think that "both sides do it" then you are not interested in the truth. - Victor Ganata

Victor, I voted for the Libertarian candidate but a tidbit of information came out about an enormous spike in the black percentage of the vote in swing states. Inexplicably enormous spike. Like going from 11% to 15% in Ohio (something like that). It convinced me that the election was likely stolen. Sorry to say. Its too big to be explained any other way. - Berthe

Victor, do you truly believe that you are not getting a lot of "left wing" propaganda? I really think the terms "left" and "right" are wildly inaccurate. Its actually just partisanship and the aim is power, not ideology, in my opinion. - Berthe

But the more I think about it, the more I don't believe that the hatred of Barack Obama is really that rooted in the rancor aimed at Bill Clinton. Birtherism is basically just racism, full stop. And, although the whole Vince Foster thing was pre-Fox News, I think it's difficult to separate epistemic closure on the right wing from the existence of Fox News. - Victor Ganata

Victor, that "hating" Obama business is left wing propaganda! See thats how they fool you, with canards like that to lead you around by the nose. My goodness, ask yourself why the mainstream media makes an issue of anyone "hating" some particular politician? There are a ton (tons!) of people like American who hate 'em all. - Berthe

I'm actually pretty sure that my Republican relatives truly hate Obama. Anecdotes are not data, but, no, it's not just the propaganda that informs my opinion. Shows what you know. - Victor Ganata

Plenty of people hated George Bush and I remember the Reagan era with the media ginning up people to hate Nancy Reagan for buying new White House china. Having a long memory, I could give anecdotes of ginning up hatred about every president. Honestly, I could. - Berthe

Left wing propaganda didn't create Orly Taitz or Donald Trump, either. - Victor Ganata

"Both sides do it." I get it. Right. - Victor Ganata

I'll tell you the most egregious, in my opinion, and I did not vote for Bush the elder: The Democratic convention of 1992 which included a speaker, Elizabeth Glaser, who sought to blame Bush the Elder for not doing enough about AIDS (She contracted HIV from a blood transfusion and died of AIDS.) Now, the truth is that Bush the Elder lost a daughter to leukemia. How horrible and... more... - Berthe

If you don't see that "both sides do it" is also pure propaganda concocted by the mainstream media, then I don't think you can really be casting aspersions about who wants to see the truth. - Victor Ganata

Orly Taitz is not a Republican official! My goodness, Jesse Jackson says wacky things - said some recently about Christopher Dorner the LAPD killer - and he is much more closely aligned with the Democratic Party than Orly Taitz is with anyone. Donald Trump is a creation of the mainstream media. - Berthe

Victor, we got off on a tangent regarding "both sides do it" and I have expressed myself poorly if you think that is what I am saying. I am for seeking and finding truth. "Both sides do it" is a way to obfuscate and pooh pooh truth. I'm going to look for truth regardless! Because I don't have a personal stake in anything but truth. - Berthe

We are being manipulated to have sympathy for Obama because people "hate" him. Its just a canard. - Berthe

There's a lot of evidence to suggest that people hating Obama is more than just a canard, but cherry-pick all you want. - Victor Ganata

Victor, I surely am not saying that "people hating Obama is just a canard," of course!! I am saying that it doesn't matter that some people hate Obama any more than it mattered that some people hated any other politician. Boo hoo people hate Obama. So what? The ISSUE of hating Obama is the canard. - Berthe

It matters what the justification for the hate is. Opposing a President for say, deceiving the country into an unnecessary war is different from opposing a President for being black (which really is the root of birtherism). - Andrew C (✓)

Oof. "racism," in the birther story is a silly mainstream media canard. Killing millions of Vietnamese was racist; the Afghanistan war, etc. are clearly racist. Acceptance of the official 9/11 story is racist (because the story makes no sense and has so many holes). Racism in the birther story has got to be the least important racism ever! - Berthe

"If you don't see that "both sides do it" is also pure propaganda concocted by the mainstream media, then I don't think you can really be casting aspersions about who wants to see the truth. - Victor Ganata.....OH PLEZZZEEE.......and where do you get YOUR truth fellow? From the net?..from liberal sites.....from carrier pigeon.....where?..TELL us your source for your truth. Do you EVER... more... - American

We should pass a law banning the use of semi-automatic capitals. - Greg GuitarBuster

Being president while black... The birther movement aim to discredit delegitimize the President. "He isn't REALLY our leader, he's a kenyon muslim with a fake certificate if only the hyper liberal press would investigate they'd agree that black bastard has no business in White House except as a fucking janitor" that isn't racist... Right?!? - WarLord

I honestly don't understand people being hung up on the "birther movement" or why it got so much media attention except that its a distraction. I recall watching Anderson Cooper spend a lot of effort avoiding asking the simple questions of some "birther" person he had on, someone who never made any other national news and could have easily been ignored. The questions that weren't asked... more... - Berthe

Berthe. I am less "hung up" on birthers than 99% of Republicans. The salient question isn't about Obama's birth mother, teh salient question is: Why is Orly Taliz given prominence by Republican leaders? Why did Donald trump go "birther' with no rebuke at all from Mittens Romney? Because it serves Right's purpose to delegitimze this president because if he "stole" the Presidency by... more... - WarLord

There is no ultimate source of truth. If you're not synthesizing multiple sources of information, then, yeah, you're not really thinking. - Victor Ganata

And if you really think that thinking about systemic racism is irrational, *of course* you're not going to understand what the big deal about Birtherism is. There's no point in continuing the conversation, to be honest. - Victor Ganata

Victor, I took the trouble to ask you why "systemic racism" was so important to you. Its an honest question and if you had a good answer, I might well agree with you. In other words, I actually am open to your opinion being persuasive. - Berthe

War Lord, I don't recall Orly Taitz being given prominence by Republican leaders. Honest question: Can you point me to an instance of her being given prominence by Republican leaders? - Berthe

As for Donald Trump --- I can imagine Romney rolling his eyes at having to deal with Donald Trump. Bill Maher made a comment about Sarah Palin's daughter that was HORRIBLE. If the mainstream media had shoved it in our faces long enough, Obama would have had to disavow any connection with Bill Maher. So, there it is: selective. We are manipulated to be outraged and I think we know it but don't take the next step of being skeptical as a first reaction to everything. - Berthe

Here is an article on Bill Maher/Bristol Palin. Please do read it. This is horrible. No decent human being should have anything to do with Bill Maher and it is far, far worse than anything that Trump or Limbaugh ever said. But Obama took a million dollars from this creep. http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012... - Berthe

"or Limbaugh ever said." ... do you not know what things Limbaugh has said? Or do you genuinely think that Maher's comment was any worse than these 10 things? http://hypervocal.com/news... ... Well, I guess you should feel happy that Bill Maher, of all people, thinks Limbaugh's attacks on Sandra Fluke weren't so bad. http://thinkprogress.org/media... - Andrew C (✓)

If you don't understand why systemic racism is important to American history, much less to *any* individual American such as myself, it's not my responsibility to educate you. - Victor Ganata

Victor, QED you have no case. - Berthe

Andrew, nothing on your Limbaugh list comes close to Maher saying that Bristol Palin was "f'd so hard a baby fell out." - Berthe

Berthe, any one of Limbaugh's Sandra Fluke "fucking" tirades beat any Maher commen by a country mile. Frankly the utter seriuosness of Rights "Legitimate Rape" meme make any thought of equivalnce laughable - Everybody dies it is bullshit when you compare the endless repeated hate speech of Limbaugh to any 10 leftists who get any airtime. Plus of course is the absolute reverant acceptance of Rush be each and every "mainstream" Republican leader. - WarLord

I know it's important to deny the obvious Berthe but really some bow to reality is warranted. Otherwise as the Republican party shrinks to a regional,party in Old South, 2 terms of Ms Clinton followed by a couple terms of Elizabether Warren followed by a couple of Al Franken.... #itonlygetsworseontheright - WarLord

WarLord --- Let me be clear: are you saying that Limbaugh used the "F" word on his radio show? Honest question. - Berthe

Berthe your ability to focus on trivial at nthe expense of the actual issue is breathtaking.... Limbaugh attacks a young women using her alleged sexual appetite and no one flinches. Todd Akin talks about "legitimate rape" the entre Republican agenda fro woemsn issues involves Transvaginal unltrasound Ultrasound Probes and you want to know if Rushbo said FUCK ... It is a wonder Berthe but as my mommy used to say" Denial is not just a river in Egypt" - WarLord

WarLord, you are surely not serious. "f'd so hard a baby fell out" is vile beyond anything since John McCain told the joke that Chelsea Clinton was so ugly because Janet Reno was her father. Was Obama ever asked about it? Maher is a very publicized major Obama supporter, financial supporter. - Berthe

Personally, I am not in favor of recriminalizing abortion but if someone opposes abortion because he/she believes that it is a human life being taken, I don't know why one wouldn't expect them to do anything to try to stop it. I don't know why they wouldn't be expected to oppose abortion in cases of rape, either. Seems to me an entirely consistent view and their first amendment right to that view. Vote against them for that or any other reason, thats the voter's choice. - Berthe

Re Sandra Fluke and her university including birth control coverage in student health insurance - here in NJ the legislature is considering dropping the requirement that college students have health insurance because the plans will become much more expensive under the expanded coverage required by the Obama health bill. That seems like a bad thing. http://www.nj.com/news... - Berthe

Re: Maher telling a vile Bristol Palin joke. I don't really care for Maher, but he's a stand-up comedian and political commentator. John McCain telling a vile joke about Chelsea Clinton. McCain was and is a U.S. Senator. - Greg GuitarBuster

"Seems to me an entirely consistent view" - yeah, that's why they support prosecuting the doctors but not the women who had the abortion, because they're entirely consistent. - Andrew C (✓)

Berthe, you are a terrible person and your outrage is disturbingly inconsistent (which I guess makes sense since you seem to have a galaxy-sized blind spot WRT racism... and why what Limbaugh said on that list is at least as vile is because of racism.) - Andrew C (✓)

Greg Guitarbuster -Obviously I think that both McCain and Maher are bad people. Personally, I do not thnk Rush Limbaugh is a bad person but will admit to a personal bias because I have a family member who has leukemia and Rush Limbaugh raises millions of dollars a year for the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society. (I also think his diatribes are political/public discourse stuff and see a... more... - Berthe

Andrew, you do make yourself clear: You are not a "liberal." You do not believe in freedom of speech or religion. You have a very crabbed view of public policy discussion if race is not allowed to be discussed. Affirmative action preferences, minority set asides, disparate impact actions, etc. are public policy issues.. For anyone discussing public policy to be precluded from discussing... more... - Berthe

Actually, no, you simply prove you have no knowledge of history. But go ahead, keep pretending you do - Victor Ganata from iPhone

Victor --- Do you think I didn't pick up that you changed the terms of the issue from why "race" is so important to YOU personally? That was an honest question to you and I note that you cannot answer it so you changed it to history. - Berthe

Will not != cannot. But go ahead and continue regurgitating talking points from Fox News, Red State, and Free Republic, Rush Limbaugh, you independent thinker. - Victor Ganata from iPhone

Victor, you are making the case against yourself very well. (Why do you want to do that? You couldn't pick me out of a police line-up. Why is it so important to you to insult me?) - Berthe

But, fine. I will give you this: I am interested in justice. This requires acknowledgement of injustice. But I don't believe you want to engage in good faith, especially since you're demanding that I explicate things an educated person should already know. - Victor Ganata from iPhone

I'm not trying to insult you, I'm just calling it as I see it. - Victor Ganata from iPhone

Geez, "justice" is pretty darned broad. Theres loads and loads of injustice in the world based on any number of factors, including and especially bad luck. God forbid any of us has the misfortune to be somewhere when a terrible crime is committed. I used to think my "touchstone" for injustice was the child daycare cases but when you start paying attention, theres so much more. - Berthe

Well, I'm glad to hear that. I always credit people on the internet with good faith until proven otherwise. - Berthe

Yes, because the quest for "truth" is a very narrow and well-defined endeavor. Do you ever even look at a mirror sometimes? You're really trying to lecture people about "logic"? - Victor Ganata from iPhone

Oof. There you go again with the insults. "look in a mirror." Oof. I am happy to allow people to see things as they see them, including to have their own opinion about what is important. This discussion at the very top started out to be about facts, the facts of the Vince Foster affair in the 90's and I remember what the facts were. Its opinion whether race is important or not in 2013... more... - Berthe

Aren't there enough vicious criminals to castigate and despise that we don't have to be ugly to other internet posters? - Berthe

Listen, I gave you an honest answer and not something I cribbed off of a website or a talk show, and you responded to me with snark. I'm pretty sure that's an example of acting in bad faith. - Victor Ganata

Where is the snark? Everything I've said to you was sincere. You say racism is very important to you and I asked why and you said you cared about justice and I said theres lots of injustice. Where is the snark? - Berthe

"You have a very crabbed view of public policy discussion if race is not allowed to be discussed." - There's a continent-sized distance between discussing race and saying racist shit like what Limbaugh did, so quit trying to pretend that the latter was really just the former. - Andrew C (✓)

What you have is an endless ability to apologize for, excuse, and distract from racism. Why is that? - Andrew C (✓)

I didn't bring up racism! I do not think it is an important matter. (I don't think abortion is an important matter, either. Free speech, freedom of religion, freedom to think what you want to think, i.e., basic civil liberties --- those are real important, in my opinion.) I asked Victor why it was important to him and he (eventually) said "justice." Theres plenty of injustice and racism... more... - Berthe

Racism is an important issue for me because to me it's a key driver for injustice in the US even today. No, you didn't bring it up in this thread, because you are _intent_ on minimizing it and excusing it. That's why Maher's comment was 'vile' but Limbaugh's comments don't even seem to nudge your outrage-o-meter. That's how you can make the amazingly ignorant claim that racism doesn't... more... - Andrew C (✓)

Actually, what I said was "Theres plenty of injustice and racism is not particularly a cause of injustice in the US (in my opinion)." In my opinion, the news media causes more injustice in the USA than racism and I think thats a very important issue, all the more so because it is not much discussed; it gets a free pass. They gin up hate against people and take away the civil rights of... more... - Berthe

" A person on the internet who you would not recognize if I walked past you on the street " - that's irrelevant, what's relevant is that you have terribly misinformed opinions about how much racism drives injustice. In general, your sense of outrage seems to be highly selective. Bill Maher matters because... I don't know, but Rush doesn't _because you don't listen to him_, because you choose to pretend racism isn't a real issue, and because he raises money for leukemia. Simply amazing. - Andrew C (✓)

Also, you wouldn't recognize me in real life either, but you feel compelled to spout endless digressions and distractions from the topic at hand, /always/ in the service of right-wing excuses (I have literally never seen you criticize a right-winger, esp not without a backhanded 'but Democrats/lefties are just as bad' thrown in.) Your bleating about my 'intolerance' is really amazing. So I'm intolerant but your endless verbiage and total rigidity of opinions is seeking truth. You truly must be a genius. - Andrew C (✓)

I put John McCain and Bill Maher in the same class for vileness. Who else have I named from either party/side? I didn't bring up Rush Limbaugh; he was brought up as a bad person. I don't believe I've said anything about ideology, right or left. The topic was "conspiracy theorizing" and "slander," not the ideologies of right or left, Democrat or Republican. I'd be surprised if I didn't say something to the effect that ideology is a canard in American politics. Its all about power. - Berthe

No, I don't think racism drives injustice. I don't see any evidence of it. Greed drives injustice more than anything, I would suspect. - Berthe

" I didn't bring up Rush Limbaugh" - YOU ABSOLUTELY DID. REREAD THE THREAD. Specifically, you claimed that what Maher said was "worse than anything that Trump or Limbaugh ever said." ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME WITH THIS. If only the truth was somewhere easy to find, such as THIS VERY THREAD. - Andrew C (✓)

"No, I don't think racism drives injustice. I don't see any evidence of it." - this is because you are impervious to evidence, your self-styled 'truth seeker' identity aside. There are vast disparities in unemployment, incarceration, etc, clearly on racial lines (race is a factor even if you factor out class, education, etc), and you refuse to acknowledge it. - Andrew C (✓)

"The topic was "conspiracy theorizing" and "slander," not the ideologies of right or left" - yes, and you (1) tried to present the Vince Foster conspiracy theory as not a conspiracy theory, then (2) tried to equate a few Maher comments with the /torrent/ of undeserved* criticism of Obama as if they were the same thing. (* yes, he deserves legit criticism for his drone strike policy,... more... - Andrew C (✓)

You know what, this thread is exactly why I'm gonna have to block you. You're dishonest and stupid and far too tolerant of racism when it suits you. - Andrew C (✓)

Jkram|ɯɐɹʞſ

Film Character Moves Into Beautiful Brooklyn Brownstone After Getting Dream Publishing Job | The Onion - America's Finest News Source - http://www.theonion.com/article...

February 20 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

ʎəlɹoɯ uəʞ, Berthe, Andrew C (✓) and 3 other people liked this

"BROOKLYN—After being offered her dream job as an editorial assistant at a high-powered, nationally syndicated magazine last week, area film character Eleanor “Eddie” Edison moved into a beautiful brownstone home in the heart of Brooklyn, sources confirmed. “This place is perfect!” said the attractive, if naively hopeful, protagonist, who graduated with a degree in English/Creative Writing from a well-known northeastern university and now lives in a 5,000-square-foot waterfront property overlooking lower Manhattan. “I’m so lucky I just happened to walk by and see the rent sign in the window. Tonight, after our shopping spree, I will invite my best girlfriends over and we will drink white wine and fill each other in on major developments in our lives while we listen to an album by My Morning Jacket.” At press time, sources confirmed the fictional woman, who is currently single while focusing on her career, had just bumped into an insufferable though admittedly handsome young man downstairs who, as it happens, works at the very same publication she does." - Jkram|ɯɐɹʞſ from Bookmarklet

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Meanwhile, a family of down-to-earth people-just-like-you moves into a spacious 6 bedroom classic colonial home in an upscale trees-everywhere suburb in a large California metropolitan area. In reality the house would cost several millions dollars, but this family has money problems just like your family. The children will experience day-to-day problems just like you had, while their... more... - Jkram|ɯɐɹʞſ

How to see through the fantasies without being labeled a crab all the time. - Berthe

LOL! This is only /barely/ parody. Give it a couple of years. :) - ʎəlɹoɯ uəʞ

WarLord

Just off the phone. Signed up for a writing class at 'The Clearing' Folk School in Door County. WI in May. I have a week of "Writers Wellspring" while WarLady is "Independent Study." Which is I think 16 gourmet meals and lots of reading, coloring, and quaint shops in Door... Clearing is a lovely wooded retreat like setting #ftw #whatIneed

February 21 - Comment - Like - Share

Berthe liked this

Sounds really nice, especially the cooking class part. - Berthe

Amit Patel

The Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy « You Are Not So Smart - http://youarenotsosmart.com/2010...

February 20 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Steven Perez, پروتژه, Victor Ganata and 10 other people liked this

"Abraham Lincoln and John F. Kennedy were both presidents of the United States, elected 100 years apart. Both were shot and killed by assassins who were known by three names with 15 letters, John Wilkes Booth and Lee Harvey Oswald, and neither killer would make it to trial." - Amit Patel from Bookmarklet

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"Spooky, huh? It gets better. Lincoln had a secretary named Kennedy, and Kennedy had a secretary named Lincoln. They were both killed on a Friday while sitting next to their wives, Lincoln in the Ford Theater, Kennedy in a Lincoln made by Ford. Both men were succeeded by a man named Johnson – Andrew for Lincoln and Lyndon for Kennedy. Andrew was born in 1808. Lyndon in 1908." - Amit Patel

*drops cuppa on carpet* - Hieronymous Boosh

"If hindsight bias and confirmation bias had a baby, it would be the Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy." - John (bird whisperer)

I have the book and I love it but it's so depressing to realize how bad my brain is. Ignorance was bliss :) - Amit Patel

Amit, I feel the same! I'm sad he seems to have abandoned his blog and podcast though. - Stephen Mack #TeamMomo from iPhone

I would too, if I were spending all my time studying depressing things ;) - Amit Patel

Heh, I found his work uplifting and validating. "Sure, you're dumb and do dumb things, but we all do, and here's why and what you can do about it." - Stephen Mack #TeamMomo from iPhone

Sean McBride

Any Two Pages on the Web Are Connected By 19 Clicks or Less (Joseph Stromberg/Surprising Science) http://www.techmeme.com/130219...

February 19 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Maitani and Berthe liked this

Very interesting. Thanks for this article, Sean. - Berthe

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I've been seeing these kinds of measurements for a decade. It's always 19! - Amit Patel

Isn't 19 some kind of numerology thing for the Muslim religion? Thanks for noticing the number, Amit. (and for the "birthday paradox" note on another thread!) - Berthe

I don't know about numerology; I was thinking of something more mundane: that there may be a fundamental fractal nature of the web that has a parameter of 19, and that would mean that the web's structure in 2013 is similar to the structure 10 or 20 years ago, despite all the changes in technology (IE's rise and fall, mobile, tablet, etc.). - Amit Patel

Interesting. Oh, I wasn't noticing any more than the "19" but I have some Muslim relatives who think the Koran predicted EVERYTHING. - Berthe

Predicting everything reminds me of the Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy :) - Amit Patel

I'll have to look that one up! - Berthe

Amit, I saw your post on the Texas Sharpshooter fallacy and looked it up in Wikipedia. This is great. Thanks. I have a young relative in law school and will pass it along. They love that stuff. - Berthe

Maitani

Schöner aus Boskoop - http://www.obstsortendatenbank.de/schoene...

February 14 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

ma∟ıĸ, Koleksiyoner Ali, Parfe and 21 other people liked this

My favourite apple variety - Maitani from Bookmarklet

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I'm not a fan of Boskoop (I love Braeburn), but the illustrations are so beautiful! - esther

Yes, they are. I love to look at them. :-) - Maitani

Lovely. Love apples. Best apples for baking, just in case this isn't widely known, are Rome apples. - Berthe

Yum, now I have a craving for apple pie. - American

I don't know whether Rome apples are popular or common in Germany. I just haven't noticed them often, maybe because I never bake apples. And I haven't found out what they are called in German. Esther, maybe you know? - Maitani

I've only had one once. http://www.flickr.com/photos... Granny Smith is the biggest cooking apple over here (followed by Gravenstein). - Spidra Webster

Maitani, have you tried Fuji apples? If they are served slightly cold, and thinly sliced, there are hints of Japanese pears. Very delicious! - Adriano

Adriano, I am not aware of having eaten a Fuji apple. Now I'll look out for them, of course. :-) - Maitani

I like Fujis and Braeburns. The Beauty from Boskoop looks like an Apple variety that I often ate in northern Germany and Holland. - Todd

Now, the best way to eat apples? With peanut butter spread on them. Slices of apple spread with peanut. - Berthe

I love apple salad with raisins, grapes and lemon juice and mayo. - American

I like raw apples plain, and I like them cooked with pork. Fried slab bacon with apples and onions is good, and I sometimes make pork chops and sliced apples flambe in a sweet chili sauce. - Todd

Todd, that sounds great. In my house there is me, one vegetarian and one who doesn't eat pork. I have thought (and said) for years that in my next life, everyone I know will eat pork. Ifs going to be the defining issue. :) - Berthe

my secret to great stand-by BROTH revealed: add one part apple sauce to four parts broth, then some crushed garlic. Whenever liquid is required in cooking, substitute that :-) your friends will be amazed. - Adriano

Good ideas from you all. Adriano, I want to try your broth recipe. :-) - Maitani

I like raw apples, Bircher Muesli with grated apple, liver with roast onions and apple slices (that's what comes into mind immediately). - Maitani

My mum stuffs a whole cored apple in a bird when she roasts it. - Halil

Jkram|ɯɐɹʞſ

As awful as the Carnival Cruiseship fiasco was for the passengers, I can't help thinking that there must still be an almost complete lack of an effective evacuation strategy for a ship with that many passengers. I mean, 4 or 5 days stuck on a ship in increasingly intolerable circumstances! What about off-loading to another ship?

February 17 - Comment - Like - Share

Berthe, Betsy #TeamMonique and Nispell liked this

It isn't as though they were out in the middle of the Atlantic, for crying out loud. Those cruises hug the coast moving from port to port. Surely there was a ship (or several ships) close enough to transport the passengers to land and other transportation options. I'm sure it comes down to cost, and Carnival is increasingly demonstrating that they are more than willing to cut corners at their passengers' expense. - Jkram|ɯɐɹʞſ

And it isn't as though they were in some remote, inaccessible place like.. like the Superdome! - Jkram|ɯɐɹʞſ

Todd

What to make of this? http://www.abc.net.au/news...

February 12 - Comment - Like - Share

Berthe liked this

This guy knew something that could sink Israel. "If' he was a bona fide 'traitor" to Israel they would have made a big fan fare over his arrest and imprisonment...so that's wasn't it. Was he a Jew actually joining or infilitrating Mossad to spy for Australia...I doubt that too. Maybe he came across something Mossad or Israel had done and expressed discomfort about it..or maybe he wasn't... more... - American

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This is a strange case. It's also interesting that there isn't an uproar over the fake passports and the use of dual citizens to spy on Israel's behalf. - Todd

My take--> None of the possibilities given so far for Zygier being a threat that could "threaten Israel as a *nation state"..which was how the reason for his disappearence was put by intell experts familiar with the degrees of treatment various Israeli traitors/whistleblowers receive in Israel.....and as compared for instance to the much more lenient treatment of Rabin's assassin and... more... - American

The only possible thing I can imagine that would 'end Israel as a nation state' is some action by the US..and the only thing there I can imagine that would make the US take action against Israel is iron clad proof that Israel was planning to or tried to launch a false flag attack that failed against some US interest or installation in the ME, setting up Iran for it to get the US to... more... - American

American, sad to say but our politicians would move heaven and earth to cover up a false flag attack. - Berthe

@ Berthe.....the politicians would try I am sure...but if known to the US military command I think it would blow sky high...many old hands in US military command and in CIA intell have old grudges against Israel and would love to separate Isr from the US. Remember the news articles leak last year about Israeli agents posing as US CIA in covert operations in other countries and also... more... - American

Here's a refresher on the Israelis posing as US CIA.......http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article... - American

And some comments from US Centcom Commander----->''"This certainly isn't the first time this has happened, though it's the worst case I've heard of," former Centcom chief and retired Gen. Joe Hoar said of the Israeli operation upon being informed of it. "But while false-flag operations are hardly new, they're extremely dangerous. You're basically using your friendship with an ally for... more... - American

And from intell--->What has become crystal clear, however, is the level of anger among senior intelligence officials about Israel's actions. "This was stupid and dangerous," the intelligence official who first told me about the operation said. "Israel is supposed to be working with us, not against us. If they want to shed blood, it would help a lot if it was their blood and not ours.... more... - American

I wish Isr would get caught at a false flag---that would be the end of them....I guarantee someone(s) in Centcom or the CIA would find a way to get them...there a few patriots still around. - American

I agree that whatever the issue is, it is bigger than typical known Israeli behavior. Even typical false flag operations, the USS Liberty attack and the usual spying are taken in stride by all sides, so this has to be big. A good conspiracy theory would be that Zygier stumbled onto information proving that 9-11 was an inside job involving Israel. It sounds good enough to spread. I'll start today! ;) - Todd

@ Todd....I think that one has already been spread...:):). - American

American, Israel DID get caught red-handed in a false flag. The Lavon Affair in the early 50's. There was no accountability. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Berthe

Note that the plan was to blame the Muslim brotherhood. We hear about the Muslim brotherhood every day of the week demonizing them but no mention of this history. Down the memory hole. - Berthe

I will say that I do not think the Israel-loving by our politicians has anything to do with love of the Jewish people. Being pro-Jewish or anti-Jewish (antisemitic) is a canard, in my opinion. Israel has been a way to loot the world and politicians have gotten their share of the loot. - Berthe

"@ Todd....I think that one has already been spread...:):)." In regards to the Zygier imprisonment and death? - Todd

Todd

The rise of America's lunatic fringe--http://www.zerohedge.com/news...

January 31 - Comment - Like - Share

Berthe liked this

I think the anger describe in the article is real and growing, but I don't think it takes a lunatic to believe that the official 911 story is fishy, or that small groups of powerful people do conspire to push their own interests against the will and interests of the majority--the immigration policies of the last 50 years alone show this. The confusion inherent in a giant system and pockets of corruption alone don't account for the obvious dysfunction. - Todd

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Gosh, this zerohedge guy trots out the whole megillah of attacks on free speech and freedom to think for yourself. Not very convincing. But theres a method to it, certainly. I check in with oswaldsmother.blogspot.com from time to time. He occasionally makes a mistake and repeats something factually wrong but if called on it corrects himself. What more can you ask? I have never seen... more... - Berthe

OswaldsMother had an article about Kennedy assassination books http://oswaldsmother.blogspot.com/2013... He makes a point about the worst of them, Posner's, that every decade there is a heavily mainstream hyped book attacking "conspiracy theories" about the Kennedy assassination and that the books are always very flawed, and obviously flawed. So, they are written and hyped for some other purpose than to be read or studied. - Berthe

I've read some interesting takes on 911 on Zerohedge, so I don't believe that the blog is against freedom of speech. As the government and elites lose more credibility, I'm sure more people will be classified as lunatics and fringists. That's already happening. I looks like sanity will be as easy to manipulate as intelligence. - Todd

I've never heard of the oswaldsmother blog. I've read, seen and heard many theories about the Kennedy assassination, but I don't really feel that I know much about it. A few months back, I met an old lady working as a cashier on Hilton Head, who claimed that her deceased husband was a secret service agent who was with Kennedy when he was shot. I should have asked questions. - Todd

IMO, the oddest piece of information about the Kennedy assassination came out just a few years ago http://abcnews.go.com/US... - A secret service agent claiming that an assassination attempt in Chicago by 2 Cuban hitmen that was foiled 3 weeks before Dallas. Yet JFK was riding around Dallas in an open top car shortly thereafter! And reminiscent of the official story... more... - Berthe

My take from all the info, documents, etc, that I've read over the years?...is that oliver Stones movie got closer to the truth than any other explaination...but didn't furnish the real answer. It was not Cuba and it was not Oswald as a agent for Russia. Take your pick from the other suspects.....a small clique within or without the gov or the Israelis in or not in conjunction with the... more... - American

Amit Patel

Centered pentagonal number - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...

January 30 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Maitani, Stephen Mack #TeamMomo and Berthe liked this

"A centered pentagonal number is a centered figurate number that represents a pentagon with a dot in the center and all other dots surrounding the center in successive pentagonal layers." - Amit Patel from Bookmarklet

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I was wondering what cool patterns there might be for a 51 state U.S. flag, and found this. A minor variant of this pattern looks even cooler for a flag: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped... - Amit Patel

Whats the 51st state? - Berthe

Puerto Rico might be the 51st one day. - Hieronymous Boosh

They're part of the U.S., they're U.S. citizens, but because it's not a state, they can't vote for President. The people there want it to be a state. I'm just not optimistic it'll happen :( - Amit Patel

Do they really want it to be a state? Most of the residents of Puerto Rico do not pay US federal income tax. Like Washington DC, Puerto Rico would send 2 Democratic Senators to the US Senate so its not likely that Republicans would go along with statehood if they have any ability to stop it. - Berthe

If it is an injustice, its not a big one, in my opinion! So many more that bother me so much more. - Berthe

Todd

Bob Menendez supposedly uses under-aged hookers and attends sex parties arranged by donors. How many of our politicians are so vulnerable on ethical grounds? Could this sort of behavior help explain some of the corruption in D.C.?--http://dailycaller.com/2013...

January 31 - Comment - Like - Share

Berthe and American liked this

Oh yeah....many, many scandals like this have happened. I think politics actually 'attracts' the lowest of low character people. Look at their "political morals", 995 of them have none there so you can expect their personal morals to be be non existent too. They're filth and trash...nothing else you can call them. - American

He is one of my senators and was up for reelection last year. Dollars to donuts the NY Times and Star Ledger had this story before the election. - Berthe

Menendez had a TV ad that really annoyed me. He shows the area that he is "from" - how underprivileged, hard working, blah blah blah. He doesn't show us where he lives now. See Biden, the self-styled white working class hero whose home has a value of $3 million, all acquired on government salary. - Berthe

MoTO #TeamMonique

NYTimes: Myths of Weight Loss Are Plentiful, Researcher Says http://nyti.ms/118x0JR

January 31 from Advanced Tweets - Comment - Like - Share

Kirsten, Katy S, Stephen Mack #TeamMomo and 6 other people liked this

It would be nice to have the lists of myths, unsubstantiated claims, and documented facts published in a more open format. - John (bird whisperer)

ALL of the Myths listed surprised me. - MoTO #TeamMonique

Berthe › Likes