Sign in or Join FriendFeed
FriendFeed is the easiest way to share online. Learn more »

barbara fister › Comments

Galadriel C.
It is now official: UConn Libraries is discontinuing access to Web of Science as of 9/1/2014.
In 2005, UConn Libraries began a subscription to Scopus with the intent to, after a period of time, evaluate both Scopus and Web of Science and determine which *one* of these two resources should be maintained given use, user feedback, coverage, and fiscal resources. - Galadriel C.
Our usage overall for Scopus over the last three years is higher than that for Web of Science, while the cost of Scopus is significantly lower. - Galadriel C.
Additionally, while Scopus does not yet have the deep coverage that Web of Science does, Scopus does include books, patents, and more conference proceedings at no additional cost. - Galadriel C.
We have determined that our priority in collection development is e-preferred full text content. When we examined our top five e-resource subscriptions by spend for FY14, Web of Science was the only one that is an abstract and indexing resource while the other four are full text journal packages. - Galadriel C.
An official press release, and hopeful an article of our findings from the massive analysis that we did are forthcoming. - Galadriel C.
wow. very interesting! - Christina Pikas
As a side note, should you ever cancel Web of Science, have your internal communications to users ready to go as soon as you tell Thomson Reuters as they will soon blast an e-mail to your campus alerting everyone of the upcoming loss of access without warning you first. - Galadriel C.
^ Good grief. - Marie
Yes, indeed Marie! They even sent one to the archivists and the president of the university. - Galadriel C.
Reminds me of stories I've heard about that time we canceled subscriptions to Elsevier. - lris
Wow! Can't wait to read your full article - nice work! - Jen
But remember, vendors LOVE librarians! - RepoRat
Jeez, that's dirty tricks. - barbara fister
o_O WTF Thomson? that's messed up - Sir Shuping is just sir
Yes, I had strong words for TR. They first said that they knew it was a challenging situation and wanted to help make sure that users had time to switch their alerts. I kept reiterating the four main points *besides* budget for the cancelation. - Galadriel C. from Android
I don't think any librarian needs to be ashamed of budget management. Also sod you, TR, you disingenuous jerks. - RepoRat
I also explained that I knew with the loss of revenue from a big university that it was a challenging situation for them and that I could see their interest in alerting faculty with hopes for a reversal, but that they should be working with the library as their primary customer and that we were profoundly disappointed in their actions which represented a poor business practice. - Galadriel C. from Android
<3 <3 <3 - RepoRat
The ACS pulled the same stunt with our faculty fifteen years ago when we SWITCHED from print to electronic. They spammed all the faculty telling them we were canceling journals. - DJF from Android
Oooooh, interesting. What happens to your WoS backfiles? Or did you have them. - Meg VMeg
We'll be receiving the back files (1974-1995) on CD or external harddrive. Because Scopus is in the middle of reindexing records to go back to 1970, we're going to wait a year and see if we need to invest in locally hosting the back file. Originally TR said they host the bckfile for 10% of last year's subscription fee but then said that they no longer host... - Galadriel C. from Android
...because they need to focus on existing subscription customers. - Galadriel C. from Android
Interesting. We're deeply invested in backfiles, which has made me hesitant to consider canceling, even if my Science librarian wasn't so deeply in love with TR. - Holly's favorite Anna
^ same. - Marie
back in the day I was hopeful that this would be the end result. - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
AND this is not news to Web of Science, iirc. - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
I'm just happy that there's competition. I actually like WoS a lot better than Scopus, but competition is good. - Christina Pikas
the competition made Web of Science better … but not better enough, imho. - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
Looking into back files and our investment in them was interesting. It proved to me that licensing them should be much stronger as we paid once for the back files; so, we shouldn't have to maintain an incredibly expensive A&I subscription in order to access back files easily especially when there are competing A&I resources that on our campus is used a lot more. - Galadriel C. from Android
Would someone mind unpacking the backfiles question for me? I'd like to understand it better. Is the issue how much of purchased backfile is covered by whatever A&I databases have been separately purchased? Or am I totally not getting it? - RepoRat
RR - Web of Science as a regular annual A&I subscription presently includes 1996 to the present. If you want to go further back, the library has to pay a one time fee to purchase back file coverage that is chunked out by year. For example, UConn purchased back filed that included 1974-1995 for art and humanities, social science and science. As long as we had a subscription to current WoS, back file content was also available on the WoS platform. - Galadriel C. from Android
Oh. And that backfile access goes away when you discontinue WoS? - RepoRat
Many libraries have purchased more extensive back files. - Galadriel C. from Android
While it is very true that one has to be able to find a citation to even know that full text exists, there are other ways to get citations (subject specific databases, Google Scholar, Scopus). In addition to paying a very high price for WoS citations and platform access, we are also paying for an OpenURL linker to connect from citations to full text, and then paying millions for full text as well as a lot for ILL if we don't have full text. - Galadriel C. from Android
The cost of access is absolutely unbelievable. - Galadriel C. from Android
Yes RR - the back file access on TR's WoS platform goes away when you no longer have a subscription. University of Prince Edward Island cancelled WoS and now they locally host their own back files. There is no support from TR once they've handed over the raw back files as I understand and it took them a while to get it set up. The whole set up of requiring a subscription for platform access to back files bothers me greatly especially since the back files alone are quite pricey. - Galadriel C. from Android
Wow. That is pretty f***ed up. How much did UPEI have to do to make use of those raw backfiles, if you can give me a sense? - RepoRat
Agreed. In the correspondence I had with UPEI, I got the sense that they had a very competent IT/systems person working on it and it took about a year of steady work amongst other responsibilities. I also *think* it occurred before a lot of libraries were investing more in hosting their own digital collections which may or may not have make it easier - I don't have deep grasp on what local hosting would entail. - Galadriel C. from Android
Thanks, Galadriel. Now I feel I can usefully explain this to students. - RepoRat
You're most welcome! - Galadriel C. from Android
Is there a tactful way to push back when a researcher (not faculty or student) feigns ignorance of resources in a way that makes it clear they expect you to do the work for them?
Does your library have research tutorials you could recommend? - YvonneM
Not really (though I'm taking a class about that tomorrow!). - kendrak
Say something to the effect of you not depriving that person of the opportunity to learn how to use that resource. - Joe
I tell people I can show them how to do X once or twice, but they have to take it from there. Is that tactful? - kaijsa
as an academic library, we are committed to teaching our colleagues how to search rather than doing the search for them. we're teaching them to fish! - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
Respond with clarifying questions about what they've tried so far (which resources, what search strategies), and where exactly in the process they're getting stuck (what they expected to see, what they're seeing instead). Explain that if they can tell you a bit more about what they've tried, you can give better suggestions/instruction. - Meg VMeg
I send them the links to the articles, and information on how to find more like them, and how to connect off campus. "I just want the PDFs." That's not an endearing response. - kendrak
All of my suggested responses come with teeth-bared polite smiles... - Hedgehog
Quote licences. They need to find the *links* And being able to do that is a skill they need to demo. - Pete : Team Marina
"Are you having trouble accessing the PDFs when you go through the steps I listed before? Where are you getting stuck?" - Meg VMeg
Thanks. I'm copying that line. - kendrak
If you're feeling especially annoyed, you can tell them to make sure to copy/paste any error messages into the email so you can help troubleshoot. And that you definitely want to make sure their off-campus access works (in addition to their knowing how to get to PDFs) because you know how annoying and time-intensive they will surely find it, if they have to email someone every single time they need a PDF. - Meg VMeg
"It's not my job to do research for you." A colleague basically had to say this to a guy in our econ dept. The charitable interpretation was that he was used to a corporate environment where somebody did his research for him, probably female. The more accurate interpretation was that he was an a$$hole. - barbara fister
^^^^ this. - Joe
Meg's responses are great. If they still don't take the hint you can ask for screenshots. And screencasts. - Deborah Fitchett
Campus tour guide with flare: black suit and dark glasses, plus tour-based stand-up routine.
Oh, Carleton students. - barbara fister
I'm holding the 1st liaisons meeting tomorrow (we have never been coordinated as liaisons, per se. Used to be coordinated from the collections side....). Topic is outreach strategies. I have one speaker who has been with the same department for 20 years; one who has waaaay too many departments; and me, on general strategies. Can I pick your brains?
I just want to make sure I have as many perspectives as possible. - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
Do you mean for instruction- and collaboration-type activities? Or collection-type activities? - Freeda B.
Outreach activities that liaisons might undertake and deploy. We want to strengthen getting to know our departments and having them get to know us. - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
Sure, I work at a pretty small university, so I rely heavily on face-to-face contact. I attend a lot of meetings in the university, I have invited faculty members out for coffee (ask them about their research!), etc. I also try to offer my "expertise" when working on instruction-type things, as in I don't always just do what the faculty member first asks for if it doesn't seem like a good fit for the context/assignment/class. I find e-mails are not ever very effective. - Freeda B.
Thanks Freeda. What kind of university meetings do you attend where you think you are liaising/outreaching (to destroy perfectly good words!)? I used ot do a lot of that, but this uni is really short on committees. - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
I try to hit each department once a semester or once a year (usually in Spring when things are not as crazy - though October has been a good time, too) - Aaron the Librarian
Aaron, how do you "hit" your departments? What methods do you use? - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
Me: I send a welcome email to new faculty this time of year, setting up a meeting with them to introduce them to library resources and learn about their teaching and research. I send an email around now to my faculty with a blurb for their syllabus, and reminding them I'm here for research instruction and they should get in touch to schedule with me, and also asking for their syllabi... more... - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
Rudi, I've been on strategic planning sub-committees, a committee on first year student experiences, the student learning and assessment committee, and I am a member of our (small) AAUP chapter. I think that the smaller committees or sub-committees are a better place to connect with people, and I look at it as indirect liaison work. I'm not actively promoting library services, but I am... more... - Freeda B.
I show up to the faculty meeting and say hi. Preferably with an invitation and 5-10 minutes on the agenda... but they are suppose to be open meetings so I am not opposed to just showing up, sitting quietly for a couple meetings, then starting to interact (while using the face time at the end of the meeting to chat people up) - Aaron the Librarian
For me, a lot depends on the culture of the department. What works for one would be a bust for another. For example, one department meets weekly, another has no regularly-scheduled meetings. I also found once while doing a massive budget-mandated pruning of whatever resources departments felt they could live without that I had to make sure backchannels were available for dissenting... more... - barbara fister
^^ this is terribly collection-centric, sorry. But the same applies for teaching relationships and other outreach efforts. Departmental politics is always worth studying as you decide best way to approach IF you have the time/resources. I'm at a small place and we each have only 5-6 departments to work with. - barbara fister
Following on from Marie's post: Who is your (living) library hero you haven't actually met?
Mine is Denise Troll Covey. - RepoRat
Uh, RepoRat. :) - laura x from iPhone
^ - Marie
Caroline Haythornthwaite is on my list. I have many heroes! - Marie
You mean met in person? - Julian
Yep. - RepoRat
You, if only because I am a tease / git ;) - Pete : Team Marina
Aw, hell. I swear I wasn't fishing, y'all. - RepoRat
Heh heh. I'm throwing in a vote for Repo myself. :-) - YvonneM
I'll throw in another one: Sandy Berman, if only to give him a kicked-outta-librarianship fistbump. - RepoRat
I'm lucky enough to have met RR a couple of times, so I'll vote for Secret Agent Fister. - John Dupuis
I've seen Sandy speak! It was awesome. And we corresponded once. Also awesome. - maʀtha
I also saw Sandy speak once and got mail from him once. He is great. And I see Secret Agent Fister is going to be at my state library conference this fall! - laura x from iPhone
That was supposed to be secret (jk). it would be sweet to meet you! - barbara fister
barbara fister
It's official. I'm becoming a privacy crank.
*NSA voice* Tell us something we don't know. Haha, you can't. - Pete : Team Marina
New area of well-known crankiness: analytics for information literacy assessment. - barbara fister
::nods:: Go on. - YvonneM
Everybody should be a privacy crank. - John Dupuis
You are my personal & private privacy crank. - Joe
Walt Crawford
Another reportorial inquiry related to my "research" projects on OA. We'll see what this leads to, if anything. (As background, I am now informed that J. Beall does not read what I write. This does not surprise me.)
Maybe this one will lead to a mention (and a link, which may have interesting effects on C&I stats). - Walt Crawford
hope so! - Christina Pikas
I sincerely hope Bealle doesn't get confused about how US law defines "defamation" and copyright like a comic artist has recently ("I don't like it! you're being mean! I'm gonna sue you!") - barbara fister
That's funny: My wife's first comment was "I hope you're not going to get sued." Seems unlikely, partly because I don't accuse Beall of anything, maybe more because Beall himself once received a threat-of-suit letter from a publisher (which drew lots of support for him, as it should have). - Walt Crawford
I should clarify: This story would, if it mentions me at all, be mentioning the list investigation, not the "sad case of Jeffrey Beall." Not that I believe either one is even remotely actionable under U.S. law. - Walt Crawford
I forgot one other thing: If there's a mention at all, it will only be mentioning the "only around 900 of the journals from Beall's list are in DOAJ," and Beall doesn't disagree with that. So I'm not terribly worried... - Walt Crawford
Crime and mystery fiction
Bits and Bobs and a Promise of a Review - http://scandinaviancrimefictio...
Many thanks for the Euro Crime links. - Karen Meek
Many thanks for the Euro Crime!!!!! <----- small indication of my enthusiasm for what you do. - barbara fister
Friends, I am piloting a 1 credit lab for a poli sci research methods class in the fall, and need to get cracking on my syllabus! Have you built or taught one of these? Are you willing share tips, techniques, or whole syllabi?
Hm, I have not built or taught a lab, but I did work with our PoliSci methodologist on his classes for instruction. Is this a 1 hr research lab where they'll be asking you about SPSS programming for their data, or is it more basic methodology stuffs like defining qual vs quant, proper research design, etc? - ωαřмaiden ❤Bassetmom❤
The class I will attached to is a pilot Research Methods class. So, this is the library lab part of it, where I can go more in depth and hands on where necessary. Prof will handle research design in class, and also the data analysis portion of the lab. But I might, for example, do a session on identifying research methods from reading published materials. - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
I will be covering basic library research stuffs as well, since this class is being instituted specifically to address that PS students are getting scarce exposure to library research methods (and direct teaching of PS research methods...) before their 400 classes. - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
Cool. Was it hard getting this through administration? - YvonneM
So far, no. But nothing was changed. A current course is being offered as Research Methods, and the students are being told to sign up for a 1-credit independent study with me. If all goes well, we'll propose an official 4-credit Research Methods class, with the lab built-in and me as co-teacher - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
So interesting! I'd love to do something like this. :-) Good for you. - YvonneM
We do this - my colleague Julie Gilbert developed it. Look her up - she has done it for years and it's effective. - barbara fister from iPhone
Barbara, I have her article! I was thinking about contacting her for the syllabus, but wasn't sure if that might be weird or not. - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
tell her I sent you :) - barbara fister from iPhone
Sir Shuping is just sir
anyone here speak Russian? I'm trying to find a book for a professor, but I can't tell if Google's translate is accurate enough to give me the info that I need.
You can try me. Very rusty. - barbara fister
this is what I'm trying to find, at least as best as i can tell: the title that the professor provided is "Syn chelovecheskii: Ob otsse Aleksandre Mene" - Sir Shuping is just sir
and thank you for offering to take a look at this for me Barbara I appreciate it - Sir Shuping is just sir
Should be the same book, yeah. Looks like a literary biography? - RepoRat
I think it's a literary biography. thanks for verifying for me! - Sir Shuping is just sir
four semesters of Russian not in vain for nothin'! *g* - RepoRat
Sorry, drifted off into another world for a bit. Repo has your back, here. It's about a religious figure who got killed (with an ax! how Russian) - - barbara fister
Did you all see that our own Barbara Fister is on Slate? Excellent.
Thanks. I thought maybe they just took note of my CC-BY license, but apparently they have a deal with IHE to syndicate an artilcle once a week, and this time it got to be me. Interesting - different gang of commenters. Luckily no trolls. - barbara fister
Definitely a different crowd. Wonder what else you could get over there! - RepoRat
Jennifer Howard
Hi everbody. I'm trying to plumb the murky depths of Amazon's dealings with university presses, and it seems like there's possibly an academic-library angle in there somewhere. Are libraries buying much (some) content from Amazon? Does Amazon fill any gaps the library vendors can't or don't? Any insight (or other questions to ask) would be welcome.
I'm pretty sure our undergrad library uses Amazon for quick delivery of brand-new (so not easily ILLable) books, and I think also for some stuff on the "book cafe" casual-reading shelves. There may be more, but I don't hang out in those circles so I don't know about it. My overall sense is that Amazon is a useful backstop for when the Usual Suspects don't have something or can't get it... more... - RepoRat
Can you be more specific about what you mean by "content"? Like, print books? Ebooks? Streaming audio/video? We buy a lot of (print) books, but nothing else. - Catherine Pellegrino
Print books primarily but I'd be interested in hearing about other content as well. - Jennifer Howard
We use it for rush orders, since our normal book vendor's rush process isn't as fast, and usually costs much more. We'll also use Amazon Marketplace for out of print orders or replacement books. Our media librarians buy content from Amazon regularly, but I'm not sure if they have other sources. I don't work with that aspect. - Holly's favorite Anna
Public library here. We use it for some stuff because of better prices or lack of availability through our regular vendor, but it is a serious pain in the neck. - laura x
I know that for us while it isn't a preferred vendor, we've used it to get items that are out of print or otherwise difficult to locate. Not so sure about scholarly type books though, we tend to get those through our vendors even if amazon is cheaper. - Sir Shuping is just sir
Yeah, we pretty much find that many books are cheaper on amazon than through our other "library" vendors, even when you factor in shipping, etc., so we buy from whoever's got the lowest price. - Catherine Pellegrino
We used to use it a lot for our 'Buy not Borrow' stuff but I think we've mostly moved to one of the regular book folk. I think one problem for DVD content is we really need subtitles for accessibility and Amazon doesn't always have those versions. - Jaclyn aka spamgirl from Android
I know our acquisitions folks order quite a bit from Amazon. Rush orders and things not held by our jobber, for example. And quite a few out of print things are there, too. - lris
We will use Amazon (or Alibris) for books more than 2-3 years old, because they are faster and more reliable than asking the vendor to do a search. And we use Amazon for a lot of current fiction and film because it comes cheaper and faster that way. Thinking about university presses, though, I think we only use Amazon for older/out of print titles, not new UP titles. I *think* most new UP titles come in through approval plans w/ various vendors. - Regular Amanda
I use Amazon for virtually all of my books. I'm a tiny branch library not affiliated with the univ. library, so I am too small for a jobber. Also, I haz a credit card for work, so it's pretty easy, and very fast. - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
We use it for some print book purchases (mostly when speed matters); we buy a LOT of our DVDs from Amazon. (We don't stream video and rarely acquire performance rights; home use, baby.) - barbara fister
AFAIK we get some things from Amazon, mostly on a rush order or it's unusual and our regular people don't have it. Same went for when I was at a public library though Rochelle could speak better to their current policy on that. - Hedgehog
Rush orders at MPOW too especially if a person submits an ILl request and indicates that they want the library to purchase. When that service was set up, it was implemented promising users a very short turn around time. - Galadriel C. from Android
Threadjack here: many of you are describing a situation where you only use Amazon if you need something faster than your usual vendors can deliver it, or the usual vendors don't have it. Do you generally find, then, that your vendors' prices are competitive with Amazon's? Because ours sure as heck aren't, a lot of the time. - Catherine Pellegrino
Catherine, I haven't looks lately, but a few years ago the answer was yes: baker and Taylor and Amazon were offering similar discounts on many items - Jenica from iPhone
Catherine, we pay our jobber to prep the books to be "shelf-ready" and to provide clean MARC records to our specifications. Every book ordered from somewhere else adds staff time to cataloging and processing, so that's also a factor in price. Amazon is useful for obtaining materials that our jobber can't, or faster, but that's where it ends for us. The price of the book is only one part of the cost. - Holly's favorite Anna
Anna: Ah, I see -- yeah, we don't have our jobbers do any prep for our books (we looked into it and the cost factor was through the roof) so that makes a difference in what the total cost of an item might be. The person who places our orders checks Amazon, YBP, and B&T, and reports that at least 2/3 of the time, Amazon has the best price. Now, keep in mind that we don't have approval... more... - Catherine Pellegrino
Anyways, apologies for the threadjack! (Jennifer, I have no idea if this conversation is interesting/useful/comprehensible to you, so if it's not, please feel free to delete!) - Catherine Pellegrino
Also, negotiated discounts work just as mysteriously with jobbers as the do with journal packages. - lris
^^ That was my suspicion. - Catherine Pellegrino
No need to apologize--very interesting convo. Tx. - Jennifer Howard
I didn't have space to do more than mention Amazon sales to libraries in this; But maybe I can return to the subject. - Jennifer Howard
the tyranny of the column-inch ;) - RepoRat
Story of my life, even though a lot of what we do is online now, where in theory space doesn't matter. - Jennifer Howard
I don't have supervisory experience and I'm afraid this is going to stall out my career progress. No chance of getting any in current position. Closest thing I have is teaching high school students nearly ten years ago. Ideas on how to overcome this?
Can you take on projects that give you at least temporary supervision of project folks? Even if it's not formal supervision, a lot of places will give that at least *some* weight. - WebGoddess
Hi, good idea. I've supervised a few committee projects. I'll have to look into other stuff. - YvonneM
supervising committee projects counts. a lot of "matrixed" organizations the line management are separate from the project/program management. - Christina Pikas
Professional service? I can at best manage students at MPOW, but I'm doing a whole lot of low/mid level management type stuff for LITA. - Hedgehog
I'm in the same boat, and it's frustrating. I have supervisory experience from high school and my early 20s, but not libraries. Somehow asst mger at Baskin-Robbins and office mgr at a now-defunct surgery center isn't helping me professionally. My strategy has been to focus on leadership and talking about how leading without positional authority is good preparation. My department just... more... - kaijsa
I hate the way career paths are all like "hey, we're basically administrators and managers. Got staff?" instead of "we reward librarians for being great librarians.and contributing to the community and the field." One reason I was happy to be in a tenure/promotion system because otherwise I GOT NUTTIN. - barbara fister
Also tried to invent a promotion path for our non-MLS staff. Everyone said "how interesting.NO." - barbara fister
("Everyone" being higher ups in the college admin.) - barbara fister
I facilitated a discussion about this last month at ALA. The folks who had successfully lept into management were able to spin their project management and ALA leadership into management gigs. *BUT* only to willing hiring bodies. I had a great convo walking with someone afterward, who seemed to be recruiting me, but in the end said -- but oh, you've never supervised anyone. um. - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
Same guy has had a bunch of failed management searches lately (no surprise, and they are not alone in this). So now we are in talks about the next Leadership DG talk, which might be about building better position descriptions to attract the qualities you want. - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
Other take-aways from the panel: for a willing hiring body, they want to see that you have a leadership style, that you take initiative and see things through. For an unwilling hiring body, though, nothing will trump "I hired, fired, and evaluated staff" :( - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
The position description thing is an issue. I think that's why many people end up places where it's just a bad fit. I feel fortunate to have had people willing to look at all of my experience and give me a chance to be in a management position. Hopefully I'm proving my abilities and value. It's tough though to make that leap. You're absolutely correct about the willingness factor. There are so many ways people can get management and leadership experience without a formal title or position. - J. Marie B
While I'm not a huge fan of tenure, I also see the value in academia. It is the only way most librarians will see any sort of advancement and I do think that opportunity should be there. I'd be interested in hearing what you were purposing for the non-MLS staff, Barbara. I have an excellent employee who I fear I'll lose eventually because there isn't anywhere for her to advance, except out of the library. - J. Marie B
We tried to describe a possible promotion path separate of P&T for the librarians in a committee report that I'm presenting on Thursday. I can move up through Asst--Assoc--Full Professor but there's no path to Assoc Librarian, Full Librarian. Unless I got my dept head's job, I permanently am at Asst Information Services Librarian. Huh, I thought the final report was in the IR but I can't find it. I can share it with anyone interested. - Hedgehog
Thanks for the input. MPOW hires librarians as staff, not faculty, as well. - YvonneM
A friend had a bit of supervisory experience, but one of her big resume builders was joining one or two library organizations and becoming president. - bentley from FFHound(roid)!
Martha and Sarah today at the party celebrating their wedding.
That's a good picture! thanks, Iris! - maʀtha
You two are very cute. :) - Laura
Iris, would you be willing to share this pic with me? - maʀtha
that is a very happy picture, made my day. :) - Benedicta
As Aunt Ann says, "That is cute a while" - MoTO: Team Marina
you look so happy!! congratulations!! - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
A big ol' grin spreads across my face every time this scrolls by. - MoTO: Team Marina
happy day! - barbara fister
Instruction librarians: do you ever go over what databases are with freshmen students? What's a good way to explain them? Compare/contrast w/ Google?
I started out by going over what *journals* are with them. I brought in some print issues and handed them out one per student. (Also examples of magazines and books and encyclopedias so we could do a bit of compare and contrast.) Can't remember if I got as far as databases but I'd have said that they're a search engine for articles but because there are bazillions of journals, databases are segmented by vendor (eg Elsevier / ScienceDirect) or by topic (eg Engineering Village) etc. - Deborah Fitchett
I start by asking students how things get into Google or Google Scholar. Most don't know. Then I tell them that I *know* how things get into library databases, and with the disciplinary ones (MLA, APA, AnthroSouce, etc.) I know that experts in the field have chosen citations, added keywords, constructed the thing. Google is a big mystery -- we can have some idea of how it works, but... more... - Regular Amanda
This is interesting. I do some of the above. I also talk about how for specialized information, we often need specialized tools. I explain that much of what is on the Internet is not on the open Web and is not free, so use library tools (such as databases/indexes) because the library pays for stuff and the library has ILL. - maʀtha
In my 8 week class, I teach Google and Google Scholar first, then databases. I use Google Scholar as the gateway drug for library catalogs and databases/indexes. - maʀtha
"large, goopy, mystery creation" sounds like a great description of Academic Search Premier! - barbara fister
Thanks everybody. I only do one shots so it's hard for me to gauge where the students are at. - YvonneM
Just sent my faculty the email about the dire budget. With lots of info about just about how bad it is and why. I'm hoping I didn't over-inform them (also hoping a small army of them will make their Dean shake the Provost for more library $$$). Have any of you had successful instances of this kind of communication w/ faculty? What worked for you?
I think transparency about library budgets is always a good thing - whether or not it changes administrative priorities. - barbara fister
This is bizarre. Nucleic Acids Research is an OUP journal. It's "open access", with all content available to readers on the web. Authors have the choice of a CC-BY-NC license or a CC-BY license (same fees for either). But if they select the CC-BY-NC license, then OUP is the rightsholder for commercial uses. I'm not sure how I feel about this.
you would prefer the alternative that the authors retain rights for commercial usage? I wouldn't think many people would want that. - Christina Pikas
i've seen similar wording in some others, though they don't call it a CC license - usually it's author retains copyright and can do anything NC they like, but if $ is involved publisher must be consulted. - jambina
Christina, personally, I would prefer that authors sign the CC-BY license, but it's not up to me how authors feel about that. Plan B is that authors retain control over future uses of the material, which means that they sign a CC-BY-NC license, and commercial users have to ask the AUTHOR for permission. - DJF
A friend of mine who was editing a book had to omit one of the essential articles on the subject because the publisher's fees for including the article were too expensive. I doubt that the author of the article would have attempted to ask for fees at all, if the article had been in his control. - DJF
I'd definitely prefer authors sign CC-BY, but I can imagine authors deciding they want to retain NC rights. What I can't imagine is an informed author deciding they want OUP to retain NC rights. I presume OUP is relying on authors not being that informed. - Deborah Fitchett
That strategy has worked for YEARS. - barbara fister
Decades. - RepoRat
Is the OUP situation the norm? I had discussions with people who felt CC-BY-NC should be the default, I think under the assumption the author decides on non-NC cases. - aaron
I think for both OUP, NPG and Elsevier you pass all commercial rights (either explicitly or the right to sublicense) to the publisher. Less clear in other cases that I'm aware of but I haven't looked closely. In all the big cases the intent of offering NC licensing does seem to be to give publishers right to refuse over commercial uses, not the author tho. - Cameron Neylon
Oh, this is a good one. Karger's open access option also uses the CC-BY-NC license, but, "Karger Publishers acts as a central point for commercial requests in order to help protect your work from misuse." - DJF
Dang. This is kind of a racket. - RepoRat
Crime and mystery fiction
Fascinating and thoughtful - and I'm also one who prefers romance storylines to take a back seat. I made an exception in THE HEALER by Antti Tuomainen but it was unusual on many fronts and there was no "will s/he, won't s/he" dithering in it. - barbara fister
Thank you Barbara. I am going to have take a look at The Healer. - Bill Selnes
Crime and mystery fiction
Review: Into a Raging Blaze by Andreas Norman tr. Ian Giles -
Review: Into a Raging Blaze by Andreas Norman tr. Ian Giles
I enjoyed it too - though the beginning seemed slow and the protagonist's change from obedient public servant and functionary to principled defender of the truth on the run a little abrupt. But after a bit I couldn't put it down. - barbara fister
Mr. The Jason Fleming
Which do you prefer? "Sustained Silent Reading" or "Drop Everything And Read" #ramona
Woah, flashback! We had USSR in grade school (Uninterrupted Silent Sustained Reading) and the Ribit program in 8th grade (Reading In Bed Is Terrific). - Melly - #TeamMarina
We did DEAR in grade school. DEAR time, every morning, 20 minutes. - Meg VMeg
I would love it if people would order me to drop everything and read, so that's my preference. I apparently practice Ribit routinely. - barbara fister
i practice Read When Everyone Else Has Gone To Bed Cos That's The Only Uninterrupted Time You'll Ever Get. not sure i can backronym that one. :P - Big Joe Silence
We did DEAR; I don't know (U)SSR. Is there a difference. These days I read on the bus, which gives me two hours a day. Or sometimes I write, or sleep, but right now it's reading. Also on breaks because Jung Chang's biography of Cixi is utterly riveting OMG. - Deborah Fitchett
We tried DEAR when I was at CPL...I didn't like it but I htink we needed better structure, one day of it wasn't effective. In a school I could see it better. - Hedgehog
We had SSR, though we mostly just called it Silent Reading. I cannot imagine calling anything USSR in the 1980s. - laura x from iPhone
barbara fister
OA book proposal - $20K first book subventions to be paid by libraries/institutions. Discuss.
This one snuck right past me. - barbara fister
I know that good editors need to be paid, and it takes a lot of work and time for editors to work with writers, but jeez. In many cases, the libraries would be paying for the prestige and cache of a brand name, not necessarily the cost of the base services. - Joe
I'll buy that turning a first-timer's academic work into a good-quality academic monograph requires skilled developmental editing and copy editing. That said, damn, $20K seems high: it feels like $3,000-$5,000 "hybrid OA" charges. - Walt Crawford
I love the way such proposals are so often self-described as "rational." "it's eminently rational that you should pay some of the costs we incur." - barbara fister
I wish someone would raise the rational question of whether we really need first books to evaluate whether faculty are keepers. - barbara fister
Then again, most faculty in the humanities who I know assume that though most of their time is spent teaching, their real job is writing books that will be read by people like them. All six of them. - barbara fister
I'm skeptical of the stated benefits for academic libraries. My library would theoretically pay $45K in this scheme and we'd get what? "...working in partnership with presses to aggregate, host, promote, curate, and preserve the growing corpus of open-access digital monographs...." Really? We get to pay money to do work we already don't have personnel to manage. I'm doubtful, but at a non-ARL research university (high level) with a fewer than 30 librarians. - kaijsa
Eh. Some stuff makes a helluva lot more sense at a level above the individual institution (cf Hathi Trust). I ain't arguing with you that the price is too high, though. - RepoRat
I think we haven't figured out what the price shoudl be - or maybe I should say the price we put on doing things this way. I think univesity presses make a big contribution, and most of them do it without a lot of resources, but focusing on "first books" seems to solve a problem that we should think about more critically first. - barbara fister
During AHAGate a blogger said there was no way any press would publish his dissertation, which was on Old Believers in Russia. I thought "damn, that's way more interesting to me than a lot of UP books" but his point was that there really isn't a reason to invest a lot of time and effort into something that wouldn't command a big audience just to prove he was a worthy historian. - barbara fister
Would these ideas still have value if they weren't refined and polished? Not as much, I'm sure, but maybe we could afford to share (and give credit for) scholarship that isn't lovingly buffed and polished. - barbara fister
Though a big piece of what editors at UPs do is coax people to write interesting books which might not see the light of day without encouragement. I don't know what it would take to create conditions for that to happen without it costing $20,000 per interesting project. (That $20,000 doesn't include the author's time or research expenses, remember, though it might include a small advance or occasional royalty check.) - barbara fister
standard in Canada (from back in the day when i knew this stuff) was 10K in funding per monograph at a UP. very few could be published without that (lots of grant-writing heappening). now, funding models for UPs are very different in canada (smaller presses, few popular titles published to support scholarly titles) but i don't think 20K is unreasonable at all. - jambina
subventions, now with open access. At least there's OA in this. - barbara fister
I'm not against this kind of proposal in theory, just think that libraries need to get some funding for personnel to do work that advances projects like this. Funding for human (not just collection) resources is scarce, but demands for services are high. OA is good, figuring out a new model for UPs is good, supporting scholarship is good. I'm just not convinced maintaining the traditional monograph as gold standard for tenure should be a given. - kaijsa
^^^^ yes. - barbara fister
An essay by the new director of the open access Amherst College press - scholarly books are luxury goods unless you decide up front that they are common goods. - barbara fister
Hi everybody! You've probably seen that Mellon is floating a proposal along these lines too, although it wouldn't be aimed at first books. - Jennifer Howard
Meg VMeg
So...Web of Science is now part of Web of Science. This means if you (like me) were looking for advanced search, cited reference search, author search, etc., and starting to wonder whether you were losing you mind, simply go to the top of the Web of Science search interface, and choose "Web of Science" from the databases list.
Whoa. Meta. - DJF from Android
*eyes spin* - RepoRat
or "core collection", actually... I think. I saw the webinar... pretty confusing. everyone on the webinar complained about things being removed from the main page,but the presenter was all like this is what people want (google box implied) - Christina Pikas
Should have a race to see if Laura X's printing instructions are faster than getting what you want out of WoS. - barbara fister
Yeah, I'm exaggerating a tiny bit. You have to choose "Web of Science Core Collection" from the databases list on the Web of Science search interface. We're asking if there's any way to link to that "collection" (which was also part of the confusion: we had a direct link to WoS even when WoK was available, so it really did look like nothing changed on our end). - Meg VMeg
Hmm ours is already linked by default to Web of Science Core collection. The default is "basic search", under that drop down there are "advanced search" and "cited reference search" etc options. Is yours linked to "all databases"? - aaron
It's linked to something? Something...wrong. But now I know that we can fix it, so thank you! - Meg VMeg
Linked from our library homepage I mean. The link is this , after ezproxy login goes to . - aaron
Yeah, no, I know. I'll have to check. We were worried because sometimes vendors refuse to make individual databases linkable within a platform. - Meg VMeg
We also link it to the individual databases within instead of to the group. We also get bioabs, medline, JCR. So we see the drop down to advanced on the main page. - Joe
I admit I was confused by this post. We have had Web of Knowledge as our main link, but we did link to the individual databases separately. I hadn't even noticed the our WoK interface now says Web of Science again. Why, Thompson? - kaijsa
They renamed Web of Knowledge to be Web of Science. Now we are not sure what to call the real Web of Science in our databases list. - Meg VMeg
Yeah, I get it now. We haven't changed anything yet here. I'm going to tell our Thompson reps what a dumb idea they had. - kaijsa
In other news, I just received confirmation that we do *not* have access to InCites the product, only all of the other databases on the InCites platform that are not InCites the product. I am not kidding. - Meg VMeg
The Web of Science Database within the Web of Science Platform? Kind of like an egg within an egg. - Joe
Any thoughts on a good way to record a session at the conference? Without official set-up (no microphones, for example)?
I've been amazed at how good my iPhone is at recording stuff. If it's a very spread-out panel, though, not sure it would catch everything. - barbara fister
Video is easy. Getting good audio is the hard part. Try to set up the microphone/video device near some speakers (audio equip) if the speakers (people) are mic'ed. - Joe
For the academic librarians re: the new ACRL Framework for Information Literacy for Higher Education - (I'm still reading the text of this as well as the new Framework, so am not going to make any statement yet as to agreement or not).
Having now read this, I'm ok with what they're saying. (it's not that long. :) ) - ellbeecee
Yep, I signed it. I'm not sure any document will have everything we need to consider, but this seems a smart addition. - barbara fister
It suddenly strikes me how vexing it is that the metaliteracy concept (which was dropped from the draft) seemed to leave out "maybe we should resist social media platforms that spy on us" while assuming IL had to prepare students to participate in them. - barbara fister
Most of the document makes sense, but I am concerned about including social justice explicitly. Why should the information literacy framework privilege social justice concepts over other ways of knowing? - DJF from Android
Because it's one of our core values? - barbara fister
DJF, what other ways of knowing did you have in mind? - RepoRat
Better question- whose concept of social justice? - Pete : Team Marina
While many of us identify with the idea of "social justice", that's a very broad heading to be applying to a framework for information literacy. I don't think that "critical information literacy" is synonymous with "social justice", even though it's absolutely true that in today's neoliberal, fiscally conservative, environment, to think critically about information is to take on a social perspective. I would rather not see an ideology embedded in the framework, even if it's one with which I identify. - DJF
Also, what Pete said. - DJF
Then again, the other "ways of knowing" that are included in the document aren't exactly value-neutral. Scholarship is conversation, for ex., assumes one is invited to speak and that a particular manner of speech is uniquely valuable. - barbara fister
It's epistemological stoppers all the way down - Pete : Team Marina
Barb, scholarship is a conversation. The problems of access to the conversation are related, but distinct, and are covered by the framework as well (it could be argued). And that discussion would also have a social justice component to it. Like I said to a bunch of students earlier this month, it's difficult to talk about Open Access without sounding like a Marxist. - DJF
Similar to a lot of academic stuff it takes what on it's face is simple and complexifies the Hades out of the face of it - Aaron the Librarian from Android
To be fair, if you think something is easy, then you haven't thought about it for long. But we're not stuffing all this into a first year one shot, either. - DJF from Android
Absolutely not. This isn't a job (just) for librarians. - barbara fister
+Pete - will now always think of turtles when i hear "epistemology." - barbara fister
barbara fister
So, sometimes I ask my pals for an article because ... well, it's easy, but it's not just that. It's also a natural place to turn, a friendly, informal, connected place. I love ILL, but when there's a way to accomplish what I need through already-established relationships, it's tempting not just because of convenience.
I wonder how this will play out for academic libraries in the near future. As stats drop, will support follow? Or should we be happy about the invisible college providing ILL? - barbara fister
That's actually an interesting research question: while we know that ILL has declined (I think we know that, but I'd have to check), how much of that decline has been as a result of article requests moving from formal to informal article transfer mechanisms, especially since the informal methods provide articles in a more flexible format (informal transfers = PDFs; formal transfers = print, or DRM'd PDF [at least around here]). - DJF
Or a PDF that is a black and white scanned PDF image of an article that used to have color images and charts, and no OCR text search possible. - Joe
while I think our ILL stats have decreased a little, in my building we offer document delivery from our own print collection and that far more makes up for the balance. so at least for a time, I think we may just see a shift in needs. - Hedgehog from Android
#icanhazpdf is super popular for a bunch of reasons. - Christina Pikas
And, of course, I had to bite. VERY crudely (across all NCES respondents, which is a constantly-shifting universe), both ILL provided and ILL received seems to have declined slightly from 2010 to 2012--but it grew (at least provided did) every biennium from 2004 to 2010. I'd bet it's the usual "most well-known places shrank, but many other places grew" situation. - Walt Crawford
[Quick comparison: Total ILL provided in 2012 10,528,989; in 2004 10,174,075; total ILL received in 2012 9,795,177; in 2004, adding in document delivery, 9,985,611. The provided 2012 figure is midway between 2004 and 2006. The peak for provided was 2010 at 11,223,980; for received, 2008 at 10,707,481.] - Walt Crawford
Again, though, that's a gross count, wildly inaccurate for any given group of academic libraries. It's what I could do in five minutes looking at the raw data. - Walt Crawford
Our students aren't part of the invisible college, and they do loads of ILL. But an increasing number of faculty don't even remember it's there (except when they need books and don't want to buy them). - barbara fister
What's funny about the "you have to degrade the quality first if you want to ILL it" is that it's probably meant to increase artcile purchase, but probably leads to #icanhazpdf more quickly. - barbara fister
DJF: DRMd PDFs? SRSLY? (alphabet soup, but ... wow.) - barbara fister
#icanhazpdf knows no CONTU, nor Rule of Five. *g* - RepoRat
^ - Marie
Yes. Our ILL department has taken a particularly narrow reading of the law. So, if you request an article, we will make it available on a server for you to download, but it expires after a while, so you have to print it when you're notified. - DJF from Android
Sigh. We are a net lender here and rarely need articles from other libraries, but I'm lately being stymied by requests for things like a $2500 market report and we just can't borrow them or justify paying for them for individual faculty. It was tempting to ask if anybody has the latest one requested, but I think that's the kind of shit that would get me into trouble. - kaijsa
the marketing reports requests I get tend to be students just googling. they are very specialised and expensive I doubt most libraries would have it. anyway could ILL decline (or possibly decline) cos of open access rising? - aaron from BuddyFeed
At least right now, I suspect that the increase in ILL due to the ease of finding out about things that you wouldn't have even heard of before is offsetting the decrease due to the ability to get things open access. - Rebecca Hedreen
Excellent point, Rebecca. Also ++ RR and ++ Walt. DJF, our consortium has a one week expiration, too, which I assume was a sop to publishers. Had a student in a panic who assumed she only had a week to view the article, after which it would vanish (maybe had encountered vanishing public library ebook loans?) If publishers ever pull that sh!t, #icanhaspdf will no doubt find a workaround. - barbara fister
Construction begins in my library today.
here's hoping it's as non-loud and non-smelly as possible. and that the result is shiny, too. :) - Marianne
what are they building? - maʀtha
The writing center is moving into the library in August, so we're reconstructing most of the staff spaces on the main floor of the library to accommodate that. The temporary wall in the picture is surrounding the space that will become the writing center itself. - lris
Ooh, does that mean Carol Rutz will be moving in? (Probably not, but she's awesome.) - barbara fister
No, she runs the writing program. The writing center is a different thing run by the also-awesome Kathy Evertz. - lris
So what's moving into Scoville, then? - Lily
If I remember right, Scoville is getting emptied, renovated, and then maybe Admissions moves in? - lris
Best renovation wishes! - kaijsa
Happy Birthday to LSW's own Dorothea!!!
Happy birthday :) - Pete : Team Marina from FFHound(roid)!
Many happy returns of the day! - Catherine Pellegrino
Happy Birthday!!! Next time--hoping we get to see you longer/more consciously :) - Hedgehog
Happy birthday! - Marianne
Thanks, errybody. Today my age is equal to the Ultimate Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything. So that means I'll have it all figured out by the end of the day, right? - RepoRat
Wheee! yes, and be sure to tell us. - barbara fister
Happies! - Stephen Francoeur
Omigosh, happiest birthday to you! I hope the kitties bake you a nice cake, preferably not made out of fish - maʀtha
happy happy birthday! - Sir Shuping is just sir
Summer birthdays are the best! Happy birthday, RR! - Lily
Happy birthday! - bentley
Happy day! - Jen
Happy Birthday! - Rebecca Hedreen
Woo hoo! Happy, happy birthday! - Galadriel C. from Android
Happy birthday! - Sarah
Happy Birthday!!!!!! - Katy S from iPhone
Happy bday! - Joe
Happy birthday, Dorothea!!! - Katie
thanks, folks. Ian's Pizza has my favorite only-sometimes pizza around this month, so I raise a slice of BBFAT (black bean, feta, avocado, tomato) in your honor! - RepoRat
mmmmm...Ians. Now I am fantasizing about their grilled veggie pizza and am raising an imaginary slice back to you. - Katy S
Deborah Fitchett
This is awesome - Creative Commons Aotearoa New Zealand are working on a free legal notice that Māori can use to release cultural works more openly:
How do you feel about the "protection against culturally offensive uses", compared to the problems people see with a non-commercial CC license? - Meg VMeg
It is restrictive, yes; but it's less restrictive than no open release at all. Creators need the reassurance that, say, their photo of their granny isn't going to end up on someone's Cafepress teatowels, otherwise they're not going to go anywhere near open. At the moment there's huge amounts of information that is locked up for use by the iwi itself and in many cases people would be... more... - Deborah Fitchett
(It has been a journey for me, with a natural Western bent towards "Knowledge wants to be free!", to get my head around the fact that some knowledge *doesn't* and I have no right to it. Comparing with my thoughts about privacy has been a useful benchmark/triangulation point when my brain's otherwise been tending to flail in despair.) - Deborah Fitchett
What would be the benefit of this license over registered copyright? Is copyright not strong enough? I am not at all saying that indigenous knowledge needs to be free. I'm just curious what niche this license fills. - Meg VMeg
There was a wonderful talk at Access Vancouver about work that was done at University of Washington about designing systems for managing culturally sensitive information. - DJF from Android
Like, in the US we have laws against falsely ascribing Native American ownership/creatorship (e.g., ), so I'm wondering if this is, like, the contrapositive to that. Or something. - Meg VMeg
yes! what djf said! huge community involvement in the collections for both authentication and access. i know that ubc has adopted some of the tech for their Xwi7xwa library. - jambina
It's not that copyright isn't strong enough; it doesn't replace that at all. Everyone gets copyright. It's that *creative commons licenses* don't give/withhold the appropriate permissions when it comes to indigenous knowledge. You can say "Go ahead and use it but attribute" (CC-BY) or "Go ahead and use it but not for commercial purposes" (CC-BY-NC) or "You can't use it at all without... more... - Deborah Fitchett
An example of the challenges of Creative Commons that are simpler for us to understand is the all the CC licences also waive the creators moral rights to restrict how material may be used. So, if you CC license something, you can't stop the KKK from using it. - DJF from Android
Sure, and I'm wondering whether people imagine it will face the same problems as NC. Because, in theory, NC is a good idea too. But, in other theory, NC is *not* a good idea, because no one knows what it means, so it's useless (e.g., ). And "culturally offensive" seems even more ambiguous than NC. Ergo my initial question. - Meg VMeg
I want this to be a clearcut awesome good thing. But NC-CC licensing has not at all been a clearcut awesome good thing (even though I would have thought that would be the case). So I'm wondering how/whether this can be a DIFFERENT clearcut awesome good thing. Or whether trademarks/law/something else are a better recourse. - Meg VMeg
I think it's a bit strong to say NC is "useless." "Not as useful as it might be," yes, but it's still useful. Half a loaf and all that. - Walt Crawford
Hence why they're consulting at the moment about what restrictions it should and shouldn't include. I think trademarks/law would do the exact opposite of opening things up. - Deborah Fitchett
Deborah, can you explain why things are not open currently? Is it something about Māori protectiveness, beyond whatever would or wouldn't be allowed by NZ law? The laws we have here prevent falsely ascribing ownership or creatorship to Native American tribes (and many of the tribes have registered trademarks for their names). So they don't close things down, exactly, but allow legal recourse when IP is used improperly. - Meg VMeg
Sorry, I am not trying to be contrarian. I would like this to be good news. I was excited until I remembered all the NC turmoil. - Meg VMeg
Two part answer: 1) Can you explain why a white person doesn't make their content open? It's because we want to retain certain rights. Sometimes I might want to make something open but I don't want a company to profit off that; NC was created (however imperfectly) to allay these concerns. Likewise a "no culturally offensive use" license can allow people to open their content up without... more... - Deborah Fitchett
That wandered so encompassed part of 2) which is the tikis on teatowels kind of thing. Some things do not belong in the wrong kind of context. Western law does not deal with this. Existing Creative Commons licenses don't deal with it. So the goal is to create a license that does deal with it, by (presumably) spelling out what uses are and are not appropriate. Then a creator can say "I... more... - Deborah Fitchett
I'm not sure if this clarifies things because I'm not sure where the gap is, because I've got all this cultural context you don't. But it's basically for the case where authors want to be open but also want safeguards. Existing CC licenses provide the safeguards that matter to Western creators (attribution, share-alike, non-commercial, no-derivatives) but they don't provide the... more... - Deborah Fitchett
Meg: Have you been following the furor here in Oklahoma surrounding the way Christina Fallin appropriated a plains tribe headdress? I know it's a physical object rather than knowledge, but to me, seems like this is the exact sort of thing that this license option is trying to protect against. American Indian tribes have always dealt with white people appropriating pieces of their... more... - Kirsten
I am not saying that protection isn't called for, or that I don't understand why it might be called for (my last question about the Māori was asking if there was something specific to their traditions/culture that made this different from a CC license for all indigenous people, because it seemed like Deborah was saying that). It is ABSOLUTELY called for, and I 100% understand why. What... more... - Meg VMeg
It seems like a way to put your hand up and say "hey, you can use this, but if I think you're using it in a way that offends me, I'm gonna revoke that right." I see the complexity of limits, but I also see why people may want "some rights reserved" defined in specific ways so that they can say yes while saying no to some uses. People would presumably still have uses that fall under fair dealing (?? is that the phrase in NZ for what yanks call fair use?) - barbara fister
Sorry, Meg. I wasn't reading closely enough. Teach me to skim pre-caffeine. Anyway, to the point: I doubt the Maori license would be able to avoid all those criticisms, since there would always be people (like Fallin) who would want to use items with that license in a way that was disrespectful. Such people often fall back on some combination of free speech and capitalism to justify... more... - Kirsten
Purely pragmatically, the problem I have with NC is that it overprotects -- it renders uses problematic that the licensor probably wouldn't have any problem with. I honestly don't think that's true in the indigenous-knowledge case! So I'm in favor (for the little my white-ass approval is worth), partly in the name of getting more truth out there and drowning out the noisy appropriators. - RepoRat
Back to the U Washington work that I mentioned above, "culturally offensive" probably isn't just a vague phrase, but has strong, well understood, restrictions on culturally appropriate use associated with it that are well understood by the culture in question. For example, letting the US flag touch the ground is (well, was) a simple example of a "culturally offensive" use. - DJF
Barbara's comment about "It seems like a way to put your hand up and say 'hey, you can use this, but if I think you're using it in a way that offends me, I'm gonna revoke that right.'" is exactly why the Creative Commons licenses explicitly waive the creators' moral rights. So, even where Western European culture has a way to control uses, the CC stops one from doing so. - DJF
It seems as this particular effort a) is working very hard to come to a mutually-agreed-upon-by-creators, nuanced and detailed definition of "culturally offensive" (if you click through to Deborah's link, it includes a survey) - which I actually would expect to vary from indigenous tradition to indigenous tradition, given that their sacred / tapu / etc contexts also vary, and b) is... more... - Marianne
tl;dr: oooh, this is really interesting and shiny. - Marianne
An interesting discussion, but I must admit that my reaction to a "no culturally inappropriate uses" license would probably be "If you're not Maori (or Native American or whatever), stay the hell away." Because I would never be sure what was and wasn't culturally inappropriate, except that I'm not part of the culture. And maybe that's right? - Walt Crawford
Maybe museums and schools would be able to use more easily? - Christina Pikas
Walt, I think part of the idea is that the license would *tell* you what is and isn't inappropriate. Meg, yes, while indigenous peoples are in heaps of dialogue with each other for mutual support and sharing ideas on how to reclaim heritage in a coloniser-dominated world, their cultures and therefore needs are still very different from each other so I would expect licenses to vary... more... - Deborah Fitchett
Reunion and flooding are both in full swing. Over 2500 alumni are wandering around campus. Many feet of flood water is wandering around downtown Northfield.
I imagine the alumni in hip waders - maʀtha
I am imagining the email that must have gone out to reunion attendees: "Please be prepared for significant travel ... challenges." - Catherine Pellegrino
I am imagining them saying to each other, "Well, we'll never forget THIS reunion..." - Marianne
... as they paddle their kayaks through downtown Northfield - maʀtha
I would like to say that I have no idea WTF a threshold concept is or how it will be useful. Whatever the threshold is for understanding threshold concepts, I have not passed it.
To borrow a phrase from Marianne, I shall perhaps forever teeter at the lintel - maʀtha
Not sure if you are joking, but for me that's the literal truth. Should I feel guilty? Oh well. Add it to list of things every librarian seem to understand but I don't. - aaron
Not joking. I find the threshold concept baffling, utterly. - maʀtha
So, I'm not alone in this, eh? - maʀtha
I'm not very clear on it. Probably need to read the document fully through tho - Hedgehog
Please send that in as feedback. Also, if you are interested, Lane understands but dissents: - Lisa Hinchliffe
Yep, will do. I'll say here that no one in academia wants to admit that they don't understand something, so I wonder how many will do so openly. Also, if ACRL creates a framework that is totally arcane, it won't get used. I'm just saying. - maʀtha
Yeah, you want it to be *just arcane enough* to indicate that it's new, so that people will bother to read the thing, but not so arcane that they won't. - Meg VMeg
I always thought it meant 'target'- we want to at least get people to this point sort of thing. Info lit is full of arcana, mind you. *shrugs* - Pete : Team Marina
I "get" the concept of threshold concepts -- at least, I *think* I do, though when I read some of what's been written about them I wonder if I'm just fooling myself -- and I think it could be a useful and powerful term to describe those kind of "ah ha!" moments that when they happen for a student, there's no going back. But honestly, yesterday I read Lane's post that Lisa links above,... more... - Catherine Pellegrino
So, but the "I don't have time for this!" exasperation is problematic: on the one hand, I'm thinking "hey, I'm just a librarian down here in the trenches trying to teach my classes, deal with problematic co-workers, and, you know, get my whole college's first-year seminar program off the ground. Plus, I don't have anywhere near the high-level ed-psych, ed-theory, philosophy-of-education... more... - Catherine Pellegrino
+1 for what Catherine just said. Should we include that as feedback? … but I don't want to admit being dumb or (potentially) lazy. - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
Well said, Catherine. I've made some attempts to read this stuff, but have hit the wall each time. I really do intend to try again to wade through all the stuff and to write up feedback, but it is daunting and seems so opaque to me right now, not having the high-level ed psych, ed theory, philosophy of education background - maʀtha
also, + to Meg for "just arcane enough" :) - maʀtha
Catherine's "I "get" the concept of threshold concepts -- at least, I *think* I do, though when I read some of what's been written about them I wonder if I'm just fooling myself" - Exactly describes how i feel. Then again I wonder if for most run of the mill academic librarians like myself, we dont really need to know that much theory right? - aaron
Martha (and others), do you hit the wall in reading the actual concepts themselves (in the ACRL documents) and the associated abilities, dispositions, learning objectives, etc.? Or do you hit the wall in reading the introductory materials in the ACRL documents? Or do you hit the wall in reading what others (Wilkinson as linked above, et al.) have written about either the actual concepts... more... - Catherine Pellegrino
I get mired in the material about the theoretical construct of threshold concepts - maʀtha
Yeah, Martha, then I'd worry a lot less about it, frankly. :) And Stephanie, I don't think it's admitting being dumb or lazy to say, "hey, this doesn't work for me." I think it's valuable feedback that indicates that the document that's supposed to guide (I think? maybe not? I have no idea) members of the profession in improving their work is incomprehensible to those very members of the profession. - Catherine Pellegrino
^and this is my point, in a nutshell - maʀtha
One advantage of being retired and giving up on writing about library philosophy: When I bogged down 1/3 (?) of the way through Lane's discursion, I didn't feel guilty. - Walt Crawford
IMHO, the new concepts are an improvement over the old 'standards'. Maybe its just intellectual laziness on my part, but I don't think it's essential to dig to the point that we find the intellectual bedrock that we all can agree on. In Biology, a couple of threshold concepts would be the scientific method and the process of evolution. Likewise our concepts are broad strokes that must be filled in to make sense of a whiole - copystar
I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea that as someone in the trenches, I don't have to understand the theory behind what I do. It's understanding the underlying theory that lets you riff on standard practices rather than following them by rote, or upend standard practices when they aren't working for me. And if we really want to partner with the faculty on our campuses, we'd better... more... - lris
Catharine, I get bogged down at several points along the way. And martha, I am so grateful posted this. I think I get the TCs, but I don't really get how to make them work in the teaching I do (or how I might be able to shift my teaching to get the value out of the approach... that's the real problem I have), and I think it's my own inability to carve out the time to *really* dig in and... more... - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
Actually, if you would just copy/paste what you all wrote here as feedback, I think that would help. There are others saying their concerns with TCs per se as theory etc. This is a pretty engaged group - if you are struggling w the doc, lots of other librarians will too AND we won't come off as a profession overall competent to faculty who are key partners. FWIW, most of you are making... more... - Lisa Hinchliffe
Also, given the framework claims that these are just examples of TCs but libraries should identify their own, not understanding the theory is going to make that impossible to achieve. So, the framework essentially says the theory is important to implementing the framework. (BTW, also - please don't beat yourself up. I have a second masters in educational psychology and this isn't an easy theory to parse at all!) - Lisa Hinchliffe
The folks who drafted the 2000 standards also said DIY - but libarians tend to turn into AACR zombies when they see bulleted lists of rules (okay, that's a bit unfair. But we are awfully proceedurally inclined and that wierd positiona announcement thing, "detail-oriented" as a profession.) - barbara fister
I get the theory. The apparatus bores me. I also am not impressed by the origin story of threshold concepts - the only thing I like, really, is the focus on "where do students get stuck? Which of those stuck places, when overcome, make a big difference? Can we help faculty help students and avoid sending messages that make it harder for students to claim agency and get how information really works? - barbara fister
I recognized a moment that I think is huge for undergrads - when they realize they are knowledge creators themselves and what they have to say matters. I try to bear that in mind when talking to students, even if they are at a place where they just want to know how the damned thing works so they can cross off that boring paper. - barbara fister
Full disclosure: I never took the standards very seriously, except as a gesture toward complexity. All those bullet points! Just, no. - barbara fister
Other ways to read this feed:Feed readerFacebook