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barbara fister › Comments

Megan loves summer
I'm slow in coming across "The Oberlin Group Statement on Ebooks & Libraries" I don't think I've seen it posted here yet? Lofty words. Will publishers listen?
Not until we actually stop giving them money - DJF from Android
^^^ - Galadriel C. from Android
++DJF & Galadriel C - Aaron the Librarian
We don't give them money. YAY US. Also we have no money. Boo. - barbara fister
Reminds me to poke around for more OA books to catalog. - barbara fister
Here's a version of the talk I gave yesterday "Locations of Literacy: Information Literacy" (plenary panel at MnWE 2014) - (via
I love this. Thank you. - Megan loves summer
Fantastic piece! - Lisa Hinchliffe
So, so, so good! I'm sorry the conference was an organizational nightmare (literally for you). Thank you for sharing your talk. - barbara fister
Thank you! And thank you, Barbara, for recommending me to them. It was such an honor. - lris
Stephen Francoeur
So glad I finally met Secret Agent Fister, who gave the keynote at a really great conference on critical information literacy: I've been at CUNY as a librarian since 1999, but the last few years, I feel like our library association, LACUNY, has been hitting it out of the park with conferences and...
professional development opportunities. - Stephen Francoeur
:D - lris
Yep, you guys are great. I wish I could have been there! - Meg VMeg
It was amazing! And meeting Stephen was a big part of amazing. I agree that LACUNY (which has been around for decades) is holding fabulous conferences, so very happy to be part of it. My brain is full. - barbara fister
Feel like I'm overthinking this, so I'll ask: Do you consider documentaries primary sources? I'm inclined to "no". They are too processed and produced. But, I'm curious for the collective wisdom.
I would say no. The raw interview footage or whatever could be, but the director is editing and putting their POV on it. - Mary Carmen
what MC said. - Sir Shuping is just sir
Like all primary source issues, it kind of depends on the context. A newspaper article is constructed from a POV, but it's also a record of what people thought was happening at a particular time in history. Adam Curtis's BBC documentary about Henrietta Lacks could be a primary source for Rebecca Skloot's book as a record of public disucssion about the origin of the "immortal" cell line. (I *always* overthink primary sources as a category.) - barbara fister
Thanks all! (And Barbara, me too! So glad to be in good company!) I decided the documentary about folks talking about their cancer is not an appropriate primary source for the biochem student working on the effects of THC on tumors.... - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
Well, and that points to another challenge with primary sources: the term means different things in different disciplines. In the sciences, "primary sources" can mean research articles (i.e., published articles that report on the results of a study): - Catherine Pellegrino
Catherine, that's the struggle with this class. It's for honors students, pre-thesis, all disciplines. And mostly I have hard sciences, which are a huge struggle for me! I really don't know enough about the shape of scholarly comm in the sciences :( - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
I struggle too. Just wondering though, what difference does it make practically if you decide something is primary or not? - aaron
In my experience, it's a big deal for our biologists for students to distinguish what they generally call "primary articles" from other kinds of articles (reviews, journalism). In the case of history, students need to distinguish evidence from analysis, even if they appear in the same text. I try to resist too pat a definition because it's not that cut and dried. Ambiguity can frustrate students, but it's good for them. - barbara fister
funnily I get the most from engineering students... - aaron from YouFeed
Jaclyn aka spamgirl
Well, the good news is that, barring asbestos, we'll likely get to open the stacks sooner than we thought. Don't know whose photos these are, but linked from a friend's FB post.
Oh wow. :( - Marie
Oof. - Kirsten
oh, so sorry to see that. - barbara fister
Oh no - that looks like a major re-shelving project. - Jen
Whoa. - Galadriel C. from Android
Hate to think what it'd look like without the bungee cords. :-( - Deborah Fitchett
Wow. Best wishes for the re-opening. - kaijsa
Hmmmmm. - Joe
Walt Crawford
Hmm. I objected to a term I considered demeaning, and was informed that the group that uses it considers it a standard and accepted term, therefore... well, therefore I'm not sure what. I won't push the issue, but it's interesting that the group using a term gets to decide whether it's demeaning or not.
If the term is referring to the group itself then... well, yes? Who else should get to decide? - Deborah Fitchett
What's the term? - Andy
"paraprofessional" - Deborah: No, it's librarians referring to non-MLS-holders who work in libraries. Not a big deal, but a long-time irritant. Esp. since the blogger in question assured me that, oh, *I* was a librarian. Which I'm not. - Walt Crawford
Actually, Deborah, I can think of one good-size group in the U.S., at least, that cheerfully uses a term among/for themselves and will *correctly* be really pissed at anyone outside the group using it for them. I suspect there are others. - Walt Crawford
(I like the blogger who did this, and I don't want to make a big deal of it, but the Para Word has bugged me for a few, oh, decades. Even when, or especially when, the speaker makes Exceptions for a few of us Special Cases.) - Walt Crawford
Oh, right. Yes, I think the "No, they can't take offense at my word for them because it's the proper word" approach is a tad one-eyed. [As is (as you say) the "They're reclaiming for themselves this incredibly painful word and therefore it's totally okay for me to use it too" approach.] And the "But it's okay, *you're* not a mere X" line just makes it very clear it's all about perceived superiority. - Deborah Fitchett
did you suggest an alternative word? (for example, we say "staff" instead here, since that's their official designation from the university too) - ~Courtney F
I wondered about this too. Our staff once embraced the para word; they didn't find it demeaning, but now we tend to say "staff" which may or may not be inclusive of the library faculty, depending on the context. Jacob was arguing that the term "librarian' is appropriate for people who work in libraries regardless of whether or not they hold a master's degree, which he feels isn't... more... - barbara fister
In the patron (or 'user' if you must) view, anyone who works in a library is a librarian - even the student workers. The phrase "the user isn't broken" should apply here - Aaron the Librarian
I didn't suggest an alternative, but "staff" would have been great. Aaron: I'm a "patron" person, but at least "user" is better than...ugh..."customer." I understand Jacob's argument; I was objecting to the term, not the post. Although, actually, I disagree, since that makes the degree (which my wife has and I was too lazy/scared to get) even less worthwhile. - Walt Crawford
Staff can definitely be confusing when you have faculty employees. Sometimes an "all-staff" meeting means all of us, and sometimes I show up and am told that faculty are not included. #academiclibraryproblems. We say staff here, and sometimes are more specific when referring to a library specialist or a library assistant. I like "library workers," personally, or even "library professionals." - kaijsa
"Library workers" is fine. I consider myself a library professional, so can't object to that. - Walt Crawford
My library is in a semi-rural, very politically conservative area. A co-worker turned down a possible book acquisition in her liaison area, which she has a degree in. The book, which happens to support intelligent design, made its way onto our shelves anyway. :-/
And how did that happen? - Katy S from iPhone
I'd love to know, myself. She isn't one to make waves, so she'll probably overlook it. I'm not one to do so either (in real life anyway) but this really burns my biscotti. - YvonneM
Is her area religion or science? Because if they out that in science, I'd be furious. Dewey puts it with religion in the 200s, but I don't know where LC puts it. - Katy S from iPhone
Pretty sure ours are in the Bs. - barbara fister from iPhone
Hi, her area is biology. :-( And this particular book is substandard. :-( - YvonneM
Could it get misshelved? - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
I do biology, and I insist that these get cataloged for religion. I also had a student worker last year bring me a bunch of pamphlets he found when reshelving the (actual) evolution section. Someone went and stuffed them between the books. - Rebecca Hedreen
Can we please just do away with the term B.I. once and for all? #grouse
It's like those skeumorphic icons used in software - nobody knows what it is but it's what we click on or call it. - barbara fister
I would rather call it course-integrated instruction because that is what I would rather do. :) - maʀtha
So it's like the "Save" icon being a floppy disk? - Julian
I've been out of library school for an entire decade and BI has never been part of my lingo. We learned about information literacy instruction in school, and that's what I've always called it. I do have colleagues who won't let go of BI, but I refuse to utter the phrase. - kaijsa
huh? i thought you were talking about business intelligence? - Christina Pikas
"bibliographic instruction" - RepoRat
What Kaijsa said, at least as far as the decade and never been part of my lingo. (Although I have folders in both my email and my hard drive labeled "Spring 2014 BI" etc. because it's the shortest possible way to express that concept.) - Catherine Pellegrino
Information literacy instruction works for me, or just plain instruction. BI makes my skin crawl - maʀtha
My first thought when reading the new Draft Competencies was that this SHOULD put the nail in the coffin of BI, finally? - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
The terminology will slowly wane. But, honestly, though I don't love the acronym, the original conceptualization was actually quite lofty and resonates very much with - believe it or not - the new IL Framework. #KnowYourHistory #DontConfuseTheoryWithPractice The Model Statement of Objectives for Academic Bibliographic Instruction is still one of the most compelling frameworks I've ever seen, even if the name seems archaic. - Lisa Hinchliffe
We renamed the webpages that have the forms for requesting classes and appointments last year. Both filenames had bi in them. Progress. - Rebecca Hedreen
I'm trying to build a fairly comprehensive research guide on several topics around Francophone Switzerland, particularly around ingenuity and quality. (The topics were set by the professor.) This is not an area I know well (er... at all). Suggestions welcome!!!
Le wow. Tabs for chocolate, cheese, and Calvinism. I can't imagine many guides with those tabs. - barbara fister
also a tab for les languages. - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
You'll have to hold on for a while, I was just distracted by the Cheese research tab... - Regular Amanda
The professor for the class is from Geneva, so I think she chose things that she loves and that signify "Francophone Switzerland" to her." - lris
That is so interesting. With the ingenuity and quality topics, are they approaching that from a labor history standpoint, too? It makes me wonder how Swiss companies are usually organized, I'm assuming it differs from the U.S., but don't know for sure. Is one angle in the class something like "why do these Swiss companies all innovate so awesomely?" - Regular Amanda
Yes, I think that's an underlying question -- or rather an assertion in the form of a question. :) - lris
Maybe watches or other timekeeping technology? - Joe
There's a tab for watchmaking. And I am totally stealing your beautiful tab about "how to go from a citation to getting your hands on the actual item" because OMG I can never encapsulate that process in anything less than a 35-page (single-spaced, not including figures, tables, or references) manuscript or a 50-minute lecture. - Catherine Pellegrino
Catherine, in class I usually just go "If there's a place and a publisher listed, it's probably a book. Use the catalog. If not, it's probably not a book, use our A-Z list." - lris
Clicking like on the comment by Catherine about the "how to go from a citation to getting your hands on the actual item" tab. - Joe
Yeah, maybe I have less trouble in class than I do in writing/on the web? But it still presumes that the students know how to use the catalog and the A-Z list, which I've found that one can't presume (at least here). - Catherine Pellegrino
Oh, yeah, can't assume that AT ALL. - lris
tangent: what are yo using for your meetikng availability scheduling? - Aaron the Librarian
nvm... I clicked through the (obvious) linky I missed the first time through - Aaron the Librarian
barbara fister
So, somebody just sent me a JSTOR article and I noticed it embeds the time and IP address of the person downloading it. This bugs me in a big way. WRONG, JSTOR!! Has it always done that and I just didn't notice?
typical watermarking. total privacy violation. - RepoRat
Seems like almost all providers are doing something like this these days. Though, more often it seems to state the institution rather than IP. - Lisa Hinchliffe
Further proof that this is someone else's intellectual property and they are WATCHING YOU. Ick. - barbara fister
ebrary has been adding some code to the book chapters I've been downloading. I assume it means they can get back to my account if I start posting the PDFs online - Hedgehog
Kind of amazing how we forget about privacy while enforcing IP regimes. - barbara fister
I will have to check T&F downloads, too. - Joe
I always crop off when sending something to a patron - Christina Pikas from iPhone
^^^ good for you. What a pain, though. Gah. - barbara fister
our IPs are proxied for MPOW so they only actually show you're coming from MPOW, not who you are. To a certain extent I don't mind because it shows who's doing the forwarding who shouldn't. i hate, though, that sage makes the page 8x10 when it should be like half a page. I started cropping those for my own use so I can print two pages per sheet (or really 4 per sheet) - Christina Pikas
T&F says: "Downloaded by [University of Denver - Main Library] at 10:00 24 March 2014" on the side of the PDFs. - Joe
I don't have a problem with "provided by [institution]", or some equivalent. But identifying the specific computer (which is identical to a user for many devices on campus) is a problem. - DJF from Android
I agree - it seems really problematic. More and more of our students use laptops; they probably are not showing a particular IP, but to be honest, I'm not sure. - barbara fister
On a related note, tips about how to hide your location info: - Stephen Francoeur
My campus also recently banned proxy use (at least the common ones, like Anonymouse). Messed up my "testing off campus access" protocols. - Rebecca Hedreen
Rebecca, when I want to be off campus in my office, I tether my laptop to my phone. - DJF
Rebecca, what it you used Tor running off a USB? - Stephen Francoeur
I use Tor, but that would would probably be a banned proxy browser for you as well. - Joe
if you're using Tor, can you still get to IP authenticated stuff? - Christina Pikas
Only if you access it via the proxy server. That is, use tor to connect to the proxy in a way that looks like you're of campus. It's slow, but it works. - DJF from Android
For ours access to all eresources incampus or not, requires ezproxy, so it will never reveal the user's ip address i believe? - aaron
Right - just the one for the proxy service. - Christina Pikas from iPhone
Crime and mystery fiction
I obviously need to read this. - barbara fister
I like this series very much, based on the 2 I've read so far. - Karen Meek
One of my favourites series despite the fact of having read only 2 books as well. Unfortunately there are about 4 books only translated into English. - Jose Ignacio
And the two earlier ones are not translated by St Don :(. - Karen Meek
barbara fister
Crunch time! Do anybody have subscription to portal: libraries and the academy? I would very much love to send some faculty an article this afternoon. Help? fister @
If doable, DM me and I can send the ref. - barbara fister
I can when I get back to the computer, I thnk. That will be in 45min - Christina Pikas from iPhone
thanks muchly! - barbara fister
I can't dm you until you subscribe. unless you want to e-mail me: cpikas at - Christina Pikas
okay, got it from hedgie. Thanks, all! - barbara fister
I really wish people didn't deface their postprints with giant watermarks all across every page. so much not-wow. - barbara fister
Joe Hardy
Is there such a thing as a random emerging technology idea generator?
Isn't that called a "venture capitalist?" - Steele Lawman
what is the current way to monitor trends in the field? Is someone keeping a list or is everyone on their own? I would like an ongoing list of ideas with entries of libraries who have implemented them with Failure/ Success stories. - Joe Hardy
p.s. I see Search is down again - Joe Hardy
Didn't someone here create a failure wiki?> - Joe Hardy
Dave Pattern set up a snarky Library 2.0 Idea Generator in 2006. - Stephen Francoeur
Ha, yes. something like that. but a little less snarky and more current - Joe Hardy
Oh, here's a related snarky site: the Librarian Title Generator. - Stephen Francoeur
++ Steve - barbara fister
So you want a Library 2.0 Idea Generator 2.0? - Deborah Fitchett
Yes! - Joe Hardy from Android
Gotta admit, in four trials, the Librarian Title Generator didn't come up with any that sounded even mildly implausible for an academic or public library intent on being Library 3.0 or a Thought-Leading Library. - Walt Crawford
For that matter, one of the titles was awfully close to a job I had at one point... - Walt Crawford
Galadriel C.
LSW Meet-Up at ER&L?
Whose up for lunch on Monday or Tuesday or...? - Galadriel C.
I'm game! - ~Courtney F
Open to anything. - Joe
Oh, God. That's soon isn't it? I'm so behind. - Holly's favorite Anna
Yepyep - Marie
I'm in! - Jaclyn aka spamgirl from Android
POIDH - maʀtha
I'm in! Can't wait to see y'all. - Jen
Ok, we've got a group! How about meeting at the registration desk on Monday after the last morning session and heading to lunch then? Who wants to pick a spot? - Galadriel C.
I might get a chance to wave hello before heading to the airport. Wish I had more time there. :( - barbara fister
YAY. I might get a chance to finally meet Barbara in person! - Joe
I get to hear Barbara speak at ER&L and WAAL! #winning - Jen
Can we meet at the Sunday evening reception? Barbara, will u be at that? - Marie
Oooh! That's a good idea Marie! Let's do that. If folks aren't going to be at the reception we could always have an LSW lunch too. - Galadriel C.
The reception would be easier for a larger group. Someone want to print out a codslap sign and we can claim a table or two? - Holly's favorite Anna
Voting for the lunch as well. My flight lands at 6pm on Sunday, so I don't think I can make the preconf reception. - Joe
The cods are marvelous. I'll print and bring them with me for the reception. Can we organize a lunch in addition to meeting at the reception? - Marie
Yes! Lunch too would be grand. Meet Monday at the registration desk after the last morning session? - Galadriel C.
Sunday evening should work for me. - barbara fister
Let's do both - now we just have to find a good place for Monday lunch.... - Jen
maybe Arturo's? - Marie
Reception on Sunday + lunch Monday at Arturo's sounds fantastic; it will be good to see folks! - Galadriel C. from Android
Great. See you all. - Joe
Pics? - maʀtha
What time for lunch Monday? My kids might join us... - Jaclyn aka spamgirl
conference lunch break starts at 11:40, according to the schedule - ~Courtney F
Glad that it is just 2 blocks away. - Joe
Just meet at Arturo's at around 11:50? Jaclyn, can the kids come at that time? - Joe
it's tricky to just meet there unless we have a headcount before we get there..... - ~Courtney F
Meet at reg desk? - Jen
See you at the reg desk! - Galadriel C.
Yes and my husband & kids will meet us there. - Jaclyn aka spamgirl from Android
Had a great time with you all. - Joe
Yes, you too Joe! - Galadriel C.
Who is coming to LibTech in St. Paul this spring?
me! - RepoRat
Maybe just us? - maʀtha
John Fink is going to be there. But I'm staying home - DJF from Android
Yay John Fink! - maʀtha
Hooray! - maʀtha
Anyone want to get together for drinks/dinner Wednesday night? - Jen
There's already a SLIS party 5-7 Weds. at Any or all of y'all would be welcome to crash it. - RepoRat
There's a board game meet up on Wed and maybe a LibTechWoman meetup too. (I'll be there) - copystar
I need to go to that sometime. - Holly's favorite Anna
Yep, my coworkers are organizing the board game thing - maʀtha
be sure to say hi, copystar! (I look just like my photo) - maʀtha
The Rabbit Hole makes their own rice wine :) I'm going, Jen, and I'm not a UW person, so come hang out with me - maʀtha
I'll drive you home, Martha ;) - RepoRat
Yeah! - Jen
The board gaming is across the parking lot from the restaurant, fyi - maʀtha
well, maybe we'll head over there afterwards ;) - RepoRat
Or people can head over and join us :) - maʀtha
It is right across the street! This is fantastic as I am sans car. Rabiit Hole then game night - sounds like a great way to spend the evening. Looking forward to it. - Jen
Ok, so I am trying to calm my normal pretravel jitters by making myself a map to orientate myself and from what google tells me the Market and The Rabbit Hole are a handful of blocks away from the hotel. Am I wrong - copystar
no, they are adjacent - maʀtha
Right but - I think the games night is at the Sheraton tho - and thats on Chicago Ave..and not across the streetÉ - copystar
Rabbit Hole is in the Midtown Global Market, which is a giant old Sears building. It takes up a whole city block. The Sheraton is on the adjacent block. - maʀtha
Just a dash across a big parking lot - maʀtha
There are also a ton of other places to eat in the Market. - maʀtha
Thanks - figured it out - different hotel address! - copystar
Your map is correct. The Market and the Sheraton are adjacent. Technically, they are across the street from each other, but that street is really just an entry to the parking lots and a transit hub for buses. - maʀtha
hurrah! - maʀtha
As an aside, I would like to point out the proximity of Uncle Hugo's and Uncle Edgar's bookstores, just across Chicago Ave. - maʀtha
Joe Hardy
Currently I have my work ID on one of those zip lines attached to my belt loop. I use it to checkout books, open doors, and potentially pay for purchases. The problem is A) I have left it at home before because it is one extra thing to remember, and the babies think it is a toy and B) sometimes it falls off
How do you carry around your ID. Looking for inventive solutions - Joe Hardy
I've got the same sort of setup - ID attached to retracting line, usually clipped to a pocket. I just leave it in my car when I get home, so I can't leave it in the morning on accident. - Jennifer Dittrich
I just keep mine in my wallet. that way i don't have to worry about it - Sir Shuping is just sir
I've thought of the wallet solution because I see others doing that. But I also watch as they tediously remove it and hold it to the door etc.. And then put it back in their wallet :) - Joe Hardy from Android
I keep mine in my wallet. With the RFID door locks, I don't need to take it out of my wallet to get in. - DJF
Does it work if you wave the wallet at the door? I keep both my IDs in a baggie in my bag and I just raise my bag to the sensor. - Betsy
i have the retracting one too. i try to put it in my purse when i leave work so i still have it, but that doesn't always work... and might not be a solution for you. :) - holly #ravingfangirl
I have a phone case that has a spot for cards. Very book-nerdy; had to have a hole cut for the camera, tho. - barbara fister
Clip on device with a cord. ID is always in my purse because of being called out in the middle if the night. I needed a no brainer process. - Janet from FFHound!
What DJF said. - Derrick
Most of the dudes at my office just keep theirs in their wallets as well (which can be kinda hilarious if they're too lazy to take their wallet out and just back up to the door sensor.) - Jennifer Dittrich
What DJF said. It even works from inside my purse -- just hold the purse up to the door and it's like Moses parting the... doors. - lris
The only thing I ever use mine for is the back (staff) entrance to the library, where it has to physically go through a card-reader, so I carry it in my wallet and use it once a day. - Catherine Pellegrino
I have mine on a lanyard. We're required to display it above the waist while at work. All the retractable thingies I've had broke so I just bend to badge out - Christina Pikas from iPhone
What Jennifer said. - Stephen Mack from iPhone
Well I guess I haven't really tried having it in my wallet. Just relying on what I've seen coworkers do there. Will test it out - Joe Hardy from Android
In my wallet, but it's not a good solution. The door can read it from in there, but the printers can't, which means I take it out and leave it at work and have to get someone to let me in the next morning. Or I take it out and put it in my pocket so I won't leave it at work, and then leave it at home and have to get someone to let me in the next morning and can't do any printing either. - Deborah Fitchett
Zip line earring!! - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
LSW: Joe
Ok. I will also add in this slidedeck that Marie and I are doing. Also would not have done this without the LS Dubya.
I want to add that Marie is the one who put in three huge pics of me. Not sure what she is going to say during those slides. I certainly wouldn't have done that... - Joe
mwahaha - Marie
BTW, I have a couple of public librarians interested in contributing the JCLP - fingers crossed. - barbara fister
Crossing. - Joe
Since "Discovery happens elsewhere", as Lorcan Dempsey so famously said, how do we make it easy for users who have discovered the perfect thing get it (or even find out if they CAN get it), even when getting it requires going through library authentication mechanisms that are on the opposite side of the internet from where they are.
of course, if this was easy, they wouldn't pay me so much *cough* - DJF
OPEN ACCESS, that's how. - RepoRat
Bookmarklet thing-y seems most likely to be helpful but getting it marketed and pushed out is of course challenge. We are not a shining example of getting this tool out to users... E.g., - Lisa Hinchliffe
RepoRat, yes, that is the answer moving forward. But that doesn't solve the problem for our licensed backfiles not for our ebook collections. - DJF from Android
Lisa, yes, we have an ezproxy bookmarklet that is also badly promoted. But that doesn't help when we have access from a provider other than the one that our user discovered. - DJF from Android
yeah, I know. best answer I got is "umlaut." - RepoRat
that ezproxy bookmarklet looks pretty sweet. we just moved to ezproxy this year and i didn't know about the bookmarklet. - Marie
i <3 libx ... but that's just me. - Christina Pikas
Bookmarklets are great except of course when you use multiple computers. - laura x
I think what we need to be thinking about is how we can work with our vendors so that when users randomly wind up their sites, they can log in directly somehow. JSTOR, for example, has thought of this, but I'm willing to bet money that if you did usability tests with students, they'd fail to figure out how to use JSTOR's system to see if their institution has access. But I think what... more... - Stephen Francoeur
I should have prefaced my comment by agreeing that users find a lot content by searching elsewhere online, often when they are not on our IP range and things can't magically appear to them in the way they do on campus. We can't start thinking about this problem soley as one of user education, marketing bookmarklets, etc. We have to think bigger. - Stephen Francoeur
Stephen, that's the dream of Shibboleth. Unfortunately, Shib is a huge complicated protocol that seems to require a lot of fiddling to configure correctly, if my local experience is anything to go by. - DJF
Yeah, that its complicated and requires a lot of fiddling is a shibboleth about Shibboleth from what I hear, too. I wonder if I should look into it more and decide if I should start advocating for it here at CUNY or just Baruch College where work. - Stephen Francoeur
Yes, limits to Bookmarklet. But, we should really at least promote what we have set up! Not a criticism of anyone but myself here. :) Putting this higher on my to-do list ... - Lisa Hinchliffe
I've been thinking about this because we've recently had a flurry of questions to MPOW's technical support email (which I oversee) about getting access to things where the person is including the link to the thing they want, so they obviously found it via Google (Scholar). - DJF from Android
Well Lisa, as you know promoting the proxy bookmarklet is one thing my place does right. But it's out of necessity, since we have to route all access via ezproxy even within campus and until recently we were not registered on Google Scholar library links. "Discovery happens elsewhere" is pretty old but I don't know about you guys, but my stats are showing, % of direct/referrer access to... more... - aaron
Another thing we have and don't promote enough is our locally developed "Journal and Articles Locator" - ... which also features a copy/paste my citation option - I'm not sure if we could add a function that would take a URL and try to parse the relevant data - I'll check with our developers... - Lisa Hinchliffe
Lisa, yes you guys have awesome stuff. Quite surprised you not promoting them. Still I wonder, perhaps our sessions end up focused on just "tools and tricks" rather than focusing on the real goals of IL. There is limited time after all, so something have to give. - aaron
Lots of ways to promote besides taking time in sessions. We suffer from being large - hard to have anything stand out, be consistent, etc. We're making good progress toward addressing this come fall tho so I have hope! - Lisa Hinchliffe
upthread, "But that [proxy bookmarklet] doesn't help when we have access from a provider other than the one that our user discovered" -- and this is why LibX is so great, right? linking from DOI, ISBN, etc., to your link resolver, which *always works and never fails* oh well... - JffKrlsn
I love libx. Except libx doesn't work in IE sigh.. That's why some librarians here dont want to promote it unlike the bookmarklet. And your remark on the link resolver is sarcasm of course. - aaron
I really like RR's solution. Simple and clean and no need to be affiliated with a dues-paying institution. - barbara fister
barbara fister
Favorite current list of foreign and international government websites? I used to rely on Michigan's but it kind of died....
I loved Michigan's governments website. :-( - Betsy
bump - no faves? - barbara fister
I use but I don't have any others in my toolkit... - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
There was something at the UN, but now all I can find is this: (and that wasn't it, or at least it didn't look like that before.) - Rebecca Hedreen
From what I can tell, Northwestern's site is as good as it gets. Thanks all. - barbara fister
I suspect it's not the same thing..but Michigan's Government Gazettes Online page is still working if that helps... - MontglaneChess
Q do any of you have a personal target or kpi that aims to measure how many % of books you acquired for Collection development circulates? Eg X% of books you ordered circulated at least once.
Thanks Lisa. U VA's one is " 60% of all new monographs (excluding reference books and other non-circulating materials) circulate within two years of the time of cataloging." - Interesting mine is set to 50% within one (instead of two) years. Each librarian will be individually assessed. - aaron
We measure it, but with the intent of comparing across disciplines and selectors, not meeting a benchmark. (Well, our benchmark is really 'do better than last year'.) - Jenica from iPhone
The idea of a benchmark sets off all kinds of alarms in my head. Why should librarians in non-book disciplines be punished because books don't circ? - RepoRat
But then, why are you buying books for a non-book discipline? - DJF
Probably because somebody above you has whacked-out ideas about What A Library Collects. - RepoRat
^^ If this is conceived as punishment, then that's a problem. But, if it is about aligning collections w needs, then this should help with said whacked-out ideas. I don't know that I would frame it as assessing librarians - might make more sense to look at by fund - at least it does to me if librarians manage more than one fund. - Lisa Hinchliffe
Re timeframe. I know at many US schools, certain courses are only taught every two years - so that's one reason for taking a slightly larger timeframe snapshot. Also, two years gives a chance to also look a multi-circulations in a bit more meaningful way if you want to add that level of analysis. BTW, though we don't KPI it - we did run some test reports after someone from UVA spoke on our campus. For most areas, our numbers did meet their KPI (at least a couple of years ago). - Lisa Hinchliffe
Boo to tying to librarian evaluation. But I admit I was pleased to see that our HQs overall circulate at five times the rate of the collection as a whole. Combo of subject interest, endowment $$ that make it possible to buy new books, and serious weeding. - barbara fister
It doesn't make sense to me for it to be about assessing individual librarians. Assess individual *disciplines*, sure, to inform future collection development: if discipline X is at 90% then it may need more books; if discipline Y is at 20% then it probably doesn't need as many. View in combination with interloan and other requests for the other side of the coin. - Deborah Fitchett
Help me design the most outrageously expansive list of must-dos for academic libraries ever. "What every academic library MUST DO" that you know is off the rails, but sounds superficially plausible. GO.
(As usual, this is for an LJ column I am meditating. If I want to use your contribution, I'll ask first and follow your desires as far as credit.) - RepoRat
3D printers! Makerspaces! Hackathons! - John Dupuis
Create a learning commons with study rooms with an iPad-run reservation system. - laura x
Must have an active and interactive presence on every single social networking platform. - copystar
Must evaluate every student against every information literacy competency - copystar
Have a reference desk that looks more like ... well I don't know what, but not like a reference desk. Also must eliminate the reference desk, AND must staff the desk with students, not librarians. Preferably young, hot students. - Catherine Pellegrino
Roving reference, especially 24x7 in dorms. - Jaclyn aka spamgirl
Must have collection development skills that *include* the assessment of existing and new electronic resources not just buying books. - Galadriel C.
Ouch, Galadriel. - Jaclyn aka spamgirl
Must archive every data set produced by every faculty member, student, staff, or person otherwise involved with the campus. - Regular Amanda
Must provide personalized, 24/7 reference service to all undergraduates. - Regular Amanda
Must subscribe to every journal and database needed by everyone on campus while keeping materials-budget inflation to no more than the prevailing inflation rate. - RepoRat
Must acquire every print copy of written work by faculty even if they decide to publish their work in a $400+ anthology. Also, the library must pay $$$ for the author's rights to publish the same work in their repository. - copystar
Must have a librarian embedded in every course. - Catherine Pellegrino
must have a search interface that looks like google, goes thru all library resources, and brings back the five things perfect for the professor's research, the phds thesis, and/or the undergrads paper, without being told audience - Hedgehog from Android
Gamification of everything - Hedgehog from Android
Get all of the big deals, and might have to cancel the small non-profit publishers to keep the big deals. - Joe
MUST provide travel to higher level administrators to many, many conferences. - Joe
Must keep all print journals to appease That One Guy on the faculty. - Steele Lawman
Must have converted their entire ILS to run on linked data. (Gimme more tech-services stuff if ya got it. Access services, too.) - RepoRat
Must allow faculty to check materials out for unlimited periods of time. - Steele Lawman
Must own enough copies of all required textbooks so no one actually has to buy one. - Hedgehog from Android
Must have both print and electronic for every book & journal. - Jaclyn aka spamgirl
Must have a space that is inspiring but not intimidating, welcoming but not mall-like, with quiet spaces and group study spaces that are well-marked but multi-purpose. Include as many non-library services for students in this space without sacrificing either study space or stacks. - Steele Lawman
every department on campus must have their own librarian (that is, a unique librarian for every department) - ellbeecee
(add "embedded" to the above for Buzzword Compliance *g*) - RepoRat
Must be able to perfectly manage holdings information for online resources so that no user is ever put off by incorrect info on any of the 150,000 different titles we have full text access to. - Stephen Francoeur
Free printing for all users. - ellbeecee
Including color printing, 3D printing, poster printing, and plotter printing. - RepoRat
Free lunch for everybody for life. Or just faculty. - Rachel Walden
Technology support for any type of device users may have. - ellbeecee
Separate, adequately-sized areas for quiet study, social study, and group study; all three study-space types must be further divided into undergraduate, graduate, and faculty areas. - RepoRat
Free immediate one-on-one support for all patrons and all projects in the following areas: digitization, GIS, digital humanities, research-data management (in all disciplines), journal publishing (including editing and production), MOOCs, copyright management (including copyright-status searches), patent management, metadata creation, licensing for text-mining, research statistics, grantwriting... - RepoRat
Individual temperature controls for study spaces, i.e., each group/individual study room has its own thermostat. - ellbeecee
Provide unlimited streaming of all the new hot movie releases. - Marie
Provide Advanced Forelock Tugging and 'Just Do My Friggin' Research' services - Pete
All books available in English (or at least instantaneous, free translation services) - Meg VMeg
Must have accurate usage data for every database since the beginning of time. - Joe
Must seamlessly integrate all subject databases, catalogue, institutional repository, electronic art/archives collections, subject guides, university expertise management system, university datasets register, etc etc, into a single user-friendly discovery layer. - Deborah Fitchett
Well, for what it is worth - here's ACRL's answer to the question: Though, I think you can just focus on #1 and get a LONG WAY "Libraries define, develop, and measure outcomes that contribute to institutional effectiveness and apply findings for purposes of continuous improvement." - Lisa Hinchliffe
Libraries must efficiently provide all information resources needed by their constituency...</depressed-now> - Cameron Neylon
^^^ even if that means abandoning all values to do so. And no whining! - barbara fister
Must have a digital humanities center. Oh wait! nevermind ... - barbara fister
Oh, I forgot! Must be humble at all times. - RepoRat
but it's hard to be humble, when you're perfect in every way ;) - ellbeecee
Must not wear cardigans, buns or glasses. (Currently I have two of the three.) - Deborah Fitchett
Must be highly influential in setting and implementing academic policies, and well respected by the campus community. Must also be unexceptionable and not rock the boat. - Jenica from iPhone
*** dies *** - barbara fister
Must measure & assess everything. In real time. In minute detail. And provide ROI for every activity done, with clear cause and effect stated. - aaron
Heh - maʀtha
Did anyone mention: provide access to all the things electronically, remotely, to all alumni, local business people, recent prisoners , local school children , students of community colleges... Forever. - Christina Pikas from iPhone
Must provide services allowed by data mining (like amazon "also bought", reviews, etc.) but still completely protect patron privacy. And prevent spamming and manipulating the system, too. - Rebecca Hedreen
Hyper-accurate RFID/GPS on every item so it's location can be pinpointed when it "goes missing." This should also specify when the person who has an item out will bring it back... - Megan loves summer
^Also allow you to email the person (without disclosing their identity to you, of course), to ask when they're going to return it. - ellbeecee
Without privacy violation. - RepoRat
Must eat shit and buy next year's shit at 5-10% markup. - Andy
Does anyone have a spare $187,000 lying around? "Complete your collection of SAGE journals with the 2014 SAGE Deep Backfile Package for $187,000*" and "save significantly off the list price value of $752,707.00"!
hehehe "package" - Andy
What planet do they dwell on? - barbara fister
one that is disintegrating under 'em like in a sci-fi movie - RepoRat
that said, it's a tiny bit easier to find one-time than continuing money, I believe... and backfile deals are what big libraries I know about buy with it. - RepoRat
Galadriel C.
Who has or is implementing Alma? In hindsight, what questions would you ask ExLibris before proceeding with Alma?
MfPOW just chose it, but they're not far enough along to have anything useful for you. I'd ask about APIs and data access, myself. - RepoRat
Interrogate the relevancy ranking with real user searches. REAL USER SEARCHES. - Lisa Hinchliffe
yes, and just how black-boxy is the relevancy ranking? is it tweakable? by someone without a comp-sci degree? - RepoRat
<threadjack> Why do we hand so much money over to private equity firms with dubious products again?</threadjack> - barbara fister
because we treat developers like serfs or aliens and they leave. - RepoRat
We will be implementing, but haven't started the process yet. I'm interested in how UStat pulls use stats (we already have SFX so I'm going to start us using that now, in hopes we can get the kinks worked out before my department is caught up in the acquisitions module move), and just what reports can be run automatically vs. custom. Also, how do custom reports work (and not work) and... more... - Kirsten
"We" do? or specific libraries do? Why can't write those checks to "cool lib developers who set stuff free?" Oh, yeah. - barbara fister
"we" do in general, yes, with occasional exceptions. best I can tell, the flow of programmers between libraries/archives and vendors/startups/whatever is one-way and rapid. - RepoRat
If it is anything like Primo, you can tweak it - but you can't know the rules they use so you are tweaking a black box... - Lisa Hinchliffe
Alma is the back end for resource management, acquisitions, circulation, etc., and Primo is the front end instead of a catalog. - Galadriel C.
Oh, good point - so, it is exactly the same as Primo. :) Though, in our case, further complicated by having Primo Central Index plus other collections uploaded. - Lisa Hinchliffe
I saw a document about Primo where they express tremendous pride that their relevancy ranking can cope with titles that start with "the" (or where the user adds a superfluous "the"). Turns out they're right, at least one of their competitors (I haven't tested all) can't cope with this and I'm just all O.o You guise, it's 2014, how is stop words cutting edge technology? - Deborah Fitchett
Anyway one thing I'd ask if you're moving from Voyager is about migrating past circ stats to their nice new analytics package. (Spoiler: You can't, but the more people ask the more likely it is to get on their roadmap.) You'll also want to know about receipt/spine label printing. And you need a really good understanding of how they model electronic resources because it's quite different and not understanding it in migration makes for a mess. In general the advice I've heard is to ask ALL the questions. - Deborah Fitchett
Oh, those are good questions, Deborah! - Kirsten
Does phrase searching work in yours? E.g., try "pregnant twins" ... We've had a ticket in for months. - Lisa Hinchliffe
I'd start by asking your vendors if they work with Alma libraries and if EDI or claiming or other "batch" functions are still working. - Jen
Do those things, yep. Also, let's stop treating programmers badly. In fact, let's treat them really well and get some shit done. - barbara fister
Dealing with title-initial "the" in MARC records doesn't even need stopword tech -- use the 245 indicators FFS! Granted, that doesn't fix it for non-MARC data. - RepoRat
(That said, stopword tech is trickier than you'd think. You still want to find French books about tea, for example. The devs on MfPOW's on-the-way-out Blacklight implementation used to use as example a book "To Be or Not To Be" that was entirely unsearchable until they tweaked the stopword setup.) - RepoRat
On a related note, the Innovative developers used to talk about the "Bud Not Buddy" problem, after the Newberry winner that is challenging to search for - DJF from Android
I always thought the stopword issue isn't so much they know to ignore it, is rather, the ranking itself. Sometimes the "The" in "The X" is important. Sometimes it is not. The reason why Google is so good at that is it has so much data, it can tell with very high accuracy when the stop word should be ignored and when it shouldnt. - aaron
Yeah, one of the other tricky things with stopword tech is that for us it'd be really useful for {he, te, ngā} and probably some others to be stopwords (Māori for {a/some, the, the-plural}) but it's probably not reasonable to expect the symbol for helium to be a stopword. - Deborah Fitchett
Re: EDI, I got confirmation from WT Cox that they've worked with Alma libraries and their EDI process is currently working well for those libraries. - Kirsten
^^^ Thank you Kirsten! - Galadriel C.
Sure thing! Also, we're doing our all-day live demos today, so hopefully I'll get answers to some of these questions and be able to report back. - Kirsten
I'm envious of your all-day demos! We've had three vendors give 2 hour demos plus 1 hour Q&A each and it's very hard to get a full understanding and ask ALL the questions in that period of time. - Galadriel C.
Well, we've all-but-signed and are a solidly ExLib library, so I suspect that's got something to do with it. - Kirsten
OK, I did my duty and made clear that they really, really need to have a way to import old circ and browse stats. In the process I got complimented for asking good questions, so thanks, y'all, for making me look good! RE: API, they're using RESTful API and a separate "developer network" space where you can edit and test certain things before implementing them. What I've seen thus far of... more... - Kirsten
Yay, thanks for pushing the stats thing and for the report back! The import/export stuff and licensing part sound hopeful. - Deborah Fitchett
Academic librarians, do any of you have an instruction coordinator who is also a subject liaison? If so, I'm interested in general input into how that works, job descriptions, etc.
ME TOO! We are having discussions of what we want in an IC, and there's a lot of stuff being crammed in to the job! - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
We have that. Soup or Sir Shuping could tell you more than I can, though. - LB hates stale candy! from Android
We have a information literacy coordinator who is also a subject liaison for marketing, business management etc. Ist that the same thing? - aaron
We don't have job descriptions but being small, we do it all - each of us does reference, does collection development, is liaison to four or five departments (including instruction), and that just reminded me that I have to write a report by Friday. Damn. Oh, and I'm allegedly the coordinator. - barbara fister
We had an instruction coordinator who was also the liaison to some departments, but she was promoted to oversee all of public services, so she is no longer "just" the instruction coord. - Joe
What Barbara said. I'm the instruction coordinator. - Catherine Pellegrino
I'd say it is a relatively common model at mid-sized places. But, at UIUC - no. - Lisa Hinchliffe
Yes, at UIC. Our IC at the main library is liaison to education and/or psych I think. Would you like me to introduce? - Hedgehog from Android
What Barbara said. I'm the instruction coordinator and humanities liaison librarian. - Steele Lawman
I've noticed more people with titles that include both, and I'm curious about how the liaison work balances with the coordinator work. Both can eat all of your time so easily. - kaijsa
In my case the coordination part is rather lightweight--we mostly coordinate ourselves, and I just run the monthly meetings. I'm sure it would be different at a large university, though. - Steele Lawman
Barbara said it! We have an instruction coordinator who is liaison to several subjects. She also works with our Freshman Year Experience program and gets all the "subject: other" questions and classes. - Rebecca Hedreen
Yeah, we're not large-large, but the general instruction program (meeting gen ed needs) is a big job. - kaijsa
You know what would be a real challenge? Cataloguing a live chicken
I imagine it would be like cataloging an antelope. - Katy S
Chicken as document? - DJF from Android
We're putting seeds in our catalog! I don't know that they'll be fully catalogued, though. - Rochelle *boom* Hartman
Someone left a live chicken in our library a few years ago! Maybe it was a donation? - Meg VMeg
Seems with RDA and the newer, more fluid conception of a continuing resource it would be a lot easier now? :) - Lisa Hinchliffe
Note: "title ceased" - DJF
Cataloging a live chicken would be one thing, processing it quite another. - Steele Lawman
Weed the chicken. - Joe
Chicken is realia. - Joe
Continued by "Roast Chicken" - Rebecca Hedreen
I love you people - maʀtha
Do progeny get subsequent title notes? - maʀtha
Someone asked me yesterday if there are librarian jokes but he would never get how hilarious this thread is! - Lisa Hinchliffe
Continued by eggs - dozen. - barbara fister
*dies* - maʀtha
yeah, you can find the conference session on YouTube, as well as the PDFed paper. I used that to teach document analysis in my XML course. - RepoRat
see also: cookery, poultry - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
omg, this thread has made me laugh all day long. - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
Can we get to the part where we argue about the chicken crossing the road? - Andy
I'm not confidant that the chicken ever crosses the road - maʀtha
but does it crosswalk? - RepoRat
Would you like a pork Otlet ? - Pete
wut? - maʀtha
Do you need an authority record for Chicken, 2012-? - Joe
If it didn't cross the road, why not? Is it too good for that side of the road? And if it did cross the road, why? Did it not find the side of the road it started on to be welcoming? - Andy
^this - maʀtha
The Wi-Fi was better on the other side of the road. - Joe
The chicken crossed the wrong road. Now it sleeps with the nuggets. - Pete
LSW: Jen
Biographical e-resources: Does your library license any e-resources for biographical research? Why or why not? What are those resources?
I don't have any input into the decision, but this is what I've collected of UNC's online resources in biographical stuffs: - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
We have Gale (Cengage, whoever)'s Biography In Context, but I think that's through the statewide consortium, not something that we specifically selected and pay for directly. - Catherine Pellegrino
I'm able to find needed bio info through other databases - especially if it's a literary person. Just making sure our bases are covered. I will get a quote for Bio in Context though - thanks much Catherine and Stephanie for sharing your sources. - Jen
We have Gale's Biography in Context and Biography and Genealogy Master Index. - Marie
We have a lot: Some comes from the state, some we get on our own. Much of the stuff we group as biography/genealogy are primary source collections that have other academic use that might have been the primary reason we got it. - kaijsa
We have the two national biographies (American National Biography and the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography) and sometimes use Biography in Context, which we get through the state. If we *had* to choose, we'd probably put the ANB and DNB at the top, because our main users of biographical stuff are historical researchers. - Regular Amanda
Oh, man, the questions we used to get before the Internet. And the giant sets of directories we had to buy. We had an index to biographical sources - what a pain in the butt that was. Children, some things are better now. - barbara fister
Our statewide consortium went with EBSCO this year, so it's Biography Reference Center and Biography Reference Bank (Wilson) for us. Barbara, I'm also a fan of searching more than one year of an index at a time! - Rebecca Hedreen
Galadriel C.
Continuing to work on my slide decks for #erl14 - take it away Regina Spektor!
Continuing to work on my slide decks for #erl14 - take it away Regina Spektor!
Maybe this will inspire me. I'm more than a little freaked out about going to E&RL (briefly) for the first time, followed by LibTech. Eep. - barbara fister
ER&L has fantastic food & lots of fun librarians (read: Friendfeeders). Can't wait, Barbara! - Jaclyn aka spamgirl
^^^ Yes! ER&L is my favorite conference at the moment. I'm so happy that you're going to be there - no matter how briefly! - Galadriel C.
Catherine Pellegrino
I just got a wonderful, AWFUL idea: for a whole (academic) year, whenever we empty a carton of paper for the public printer, instead of recycling the cardboard carton, stack it up next to the printer. With a big sign that says "how much paper have you used this year?" And another sign that says, "things you can do to use less paper:"
Imma run this past the director of the Environmental Studies minor over dinner tonight. - Catherine Pellegrino
:D - laura x
Better get an estimate of how much paper that is--that pile of cartons could be HUGE! - Rebecca Hedreen
We did that here once, piled up all the paper that was discarded, with boxes. It caused a big stir. And we finally got a print management system in the library. - maʀtha
Might want to figure out a way to attach the boxes to one another, so you can make the pile really tall without having to worry about it toppling over and bonking someone in the head. - Kirsten
Good points, Rebecca and Kirsten. I'm not sure if we'll attach the boxes to each other: I had thought of re-stacking them periodically in seasonally-appropriate shapes (Christmas tree, etc.). Rebecca: Yes, the pile will be friggin' huge. That's the point! :) Martha: we have a print management system, and the students have pretty generous print quotas. Which is part of the problem. :) - Catherine Pellegrino
Also make sure everyone knows not to "borrow" a box whenever they need to ship something. - Betsy
Standard carton should be ten reams, 500 pages each ream, 5000 per cartain (unless you get 3-ream mini-cartons to make lifting easier). An interesting idea... - Walt Crawford
A long time ago, I saw a display at a community college library (Skagit Valley, maybe?) that was a huge clear container holding all the abandoned printouts from a quarter or maybe an entire school year. It was impressive/depressing. - kaijsa
p.s. Maybe use a sharpie to number them as they accumulate and keep a running tally somewhere public, like a counter on the website or something. - kaijsa
Director of Env. Studies gives it the thumbs up. :) He recommends involving the campus "Go Green" (faculty-staff) group, but I know from other things he's said that they're a bunch of feckless nincompoops, so I think I'll try to get the student group instead. - Catherine Pellegrino from iPod
Feckless Nincompoops is my newest new band name! - maʀtha
ooo. it would be fun to do a huge clear container, and run a contest: Who can guess how long it will take to fill this with discarded printing? - Jenica
Some of our student employees once filled a giant glass display case with the discarded paper that was pililng up near the printers. Then we went to metered printing and we no longer had much discarded paper. - barbara fister
Yeah, see -- we HAVE metered printing, and we still get a fair bit (though not usually outrageous) amount of discarded printouts. So that's definitely A Thing. But we're still going through literally hundreds of reams of paper every year, just of stuff that students actually pick up. (Now if there were a way to tactfully mention that all this paper is coming out of the LIBRARY'S supply budget, not IT's budget...but that's another Thing entirely.) - Catherine Pellegrino
You don't get student fee dollars to pay for printing!?! Oh, hell no. - kaijsa
I honestly think that this sounds like a University budgeting problem and not a student problem at all. - Steele Lawman
Well, I think it's both, actually: using library funds to pay for student printing is a college budgeting problem. The *amount* of student printing is a student problem.* The two problems require two different strategies to address them. Since the college budgeting problem is above my paygrade, I'm working on ways to address the student problem. - Catherine Pellegrino
*Actually, it's at least as much a faculty problem as a student problem, since some of the main drivers of student printing are: faculty requiring students to submit assignments on paper (and some require single-sided printing), faculty requiring students to bring print-outs of .ppt slides to class and/or prohibiting students from having laptops in class for notetaking, and e-reserves (see above re: faculty prohibiting laptops in class). - Catherine Pellegrino
Catherine, my world resembles yours. A lot. - Jenica
Fascinating. - Laura
Every time this pops up in my feed, I think of the Grinch and his "wonderful awful" idea. - MoTO: Tufted Coqeutte
B is now my favorite. (That was a deliberate reference.) - Catherine Pellegrino
*preens* - MoTO: Tufted Coqeutte from Android
John Dupuis
Collaborate, co-operate, communicate!:
So, uh, OA advocates are like Bill Nye and traditional publishers are like Ken Ham? I can live with that. - John Dupuis
dammit. you're gonna make me read this thing, aren't you? - jambina
;-) - John Dupuis
It really is a shame that Skitch is full of reasonable compromisers only interested in scholarship, while OA is just full of extremists. (Summarizing the echo chamber in that post's comments. Oh, I forgot: It's only an echo chamber if it's not happy with the current state of affairs.) - Walt Crawford
I think the original post is well-written and nicely even-handed, but then the comments just go off the rails. Which seems to miss the point of the original post, no? - Regular Amanda
The trouble with well-written nicely-balanced posts from Big STM Pub (Wiley in this case, not Elsevier) employees is that some of us begin to have a deeply ingrained suspicion of what they mean by OA support. E.g., "we get the same profit margins, but from a different source..." - Walt Crawford
Not Elsevier, Wiley. (Full disclosure: I know the original poster somewhat.) I'm totally behind flagging the *comments* as a tiresome "poor me" view of OA. But, in line with the original post, I'm totally willing to admit that there are some extremist advocates on both sides. - Regular Amanda
I also liked the call for more diversity across the industry, librarian on CHORUS board, publisher on SHARE board, etc. - Regular Amanda
Amanda: Caught that (wrong Alice, wrong publisher) after I wrote my comment, which I've fixed. I do like some of what she says. Maybe if there was a more neutral forum for discussing these issues--which, at one point, Charleston might have been. - Walt Crawford
Yes! I agree, a neutral forum. - Regular Amanda
I find the analogy kind of interesting. Yes, at a certain level maybe it is easier to persuade with a more nuanced argument than for polarized hard core advocates to just lay in to each other. On the other hand, the world isn't 6000 years old. The sun doesn't revolve around the earth. The creationists are just wrong. The age of the earth isn't half-way between 4.5B and 6K. The message *I* take from the analogy is that one side really is on the right side of history and the other isn't. - John Dupuis
It's funny. My post, which is held up as an example of unreasonable criticism was actually a response to what I found to be a quite aggressive statement that "publishers are doing every they can with A2R and Licenses for Europe and CHORUS so stop complaining" - probably written a bit in anger. I guess that makes the argument tho in some ways... - Cameron Neylon
To me there's something amusingly pathetic about all the NO WE'RE THE REASONABLE ONES THEY'RE SCARY SCARY WEIRD MEAN PEOPLE stuff spewing out from the publishing lobby right now. I don't say that to minimize its impact, but... I dunno, I can't help chuckling. - RepoRat
Hello Peer to Peer readers. - Joe
<threadjack> Why hasn't anyone used the term "OAholes"? Or did I just coin the term? </threadjack> - Andy
I think you just coined it. It's pretty good! - RepoRat
I aim to contribute in the most indirect and non-viable fashion. :D - Andy
Fwd: Saw this in the comics section of the Post today (via
Huh. - Joe
@#$#@%$## - barbara fister
well, damn - MoTO: Tufted Coqeutte
*sighs* monocausal arguments will be the death of us. That and energy issues. - Pete
My FIL is a blacksmith. He has a modern (perhaps not state of the art) shop. It's pretty nice. - Andy
Also, waiting to see if this is a multi-panel comic in which the daughter is proven wrong. - Andy
I hope there's more, because as it is it's not even funny. - kaijsa
Tough crowd! - Steele Lawman
given my memory of this comic, i wouldn't count on them following it up. maybe i'll be wrong though. - Sir Shuping is just sir
That was surprisingly unfunny, along with being, well, stupid. (I know, I know: Since we started reading the paper via Kindle, I only look at the comics I actually find amusing, 'cuz I have to get to them separately. Most comics probably haven't been funny for a very long time.) - Walt Crawford
Most comics in the newspapers haven't been funny for a very long time. Foxtrot is the only one I still read, and it's Sunday only. All my other regular comics are web-based and likely never to be in a newspaper, though I do buy the print book collections of them when the artists produces them. - Holly's favorite Anna
Whelp, it's the punchline. As someone pointed out on The Twitters, print cartoonists shouldn't be throwing rocks. - Andy
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