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barbara fister › Comments

laura x
Hail me, for lo, I have spent half an hour on the telephone explaining the clearing of the browsing history from Internet Explorer, the downloading and installing of Google Chrome, and the nature of the web browser, the search box, and the address bar.
I trouble shot my dads printer problem over the phone for an hour last week. I feel your pain. - Steve C Team Marina
for whom were you doing this? - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
Library patron. The URL to our catalog changed slightly when we moved to Polaris, and so all the people who had bookmarked it were freaking out because it wasn't loading, and etc. - laura x
omg, so you'll be getting A LOT of these calls? - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
is there any way to pull a redirect? .htaccess? - RepoRat
So far we've only gotten a handful of calls about it, so it hasn't been a huge problem--nowhere near as huge a problem as the unwillingness of the new site to load in IE or to load at all some days, etc., etc. As Rochelle once wisely noted, it seems like a great idea to roll out your new website and your new ILS at the same time, but actually, it's not. - laura x
Oy gevalt. If it were me, I'd tell the IE folks to type in the address bar. Then I'd walkem through downloading and installing Firefox. Bwahahahah. - Mary B: #TeamMonique
That's more or less what I was doing. But it is time-consuming for those who are afraid of computers. - laura x
Every time a librarian convinces a user to switch from IE, an angel gets its wings. - Jen
What do we get if we convince IT to make a browser other than IE the default on student computers? - maʀtha
A flock. - barbara fister
The flock browser? - Joe
laura x
Oh look, it's another one of those white supremacist tracts thrown into Academic Search Elite (see
Lovely. My tax dollars at work. (Yeah, I know, censorship yada yada.... but I don't like crappy publications being supported with money from libraries who just say "whatever, we'll take whatever you got; we like big numbers of full text titlesl." That goes for just generally low-quality "scholarly" journals, too.) - barbara fister
"Notes: This title is not held locally." - Steele Lawman
Yes. That actually kind of means nothing. Well, it usually means we don't have a print copy, but it doesn't always mean there's no electronic access. Once in awhile I try to figure it out and then I give up. - laura x
Great Neck Publishing. EBSCO has loads of titles from them. Seems to be a serious metadata fail here--EBSCO document type is "historical material" but date is 2009. - JffKrlsn from Android
it's the ideology that EBSCO is wishful-thinking to be "historical" - Steele Lawman
I dug up this old thread (thank you, FF search!) because I wanted to use one or the other of these examples in a presentation for faculty in a few weeks, and discovered some interesting things: first, we have Academic Search Premier, which I have always understood to be a subset of AS Complete and a superset of AS Elite, but we have neither American Renaissance (as per Carol's comment... more... - Catherine Pellegrino
And then second, CUFTS helpfully told me that American Renaissance is indexed (with full text) from 2006 through 2011 in ProQuest Ethnic Newswatch, which I find marvelously ironic. - Catherine Pellegrino
I just checked in SFX and the only places it's listed are two PQ databases (Alt Press Watch is the other, but both through 2012). And Ulrichs lists it as ceased. So yeah, looks like EBSCO yanked it entirely and it's gone out of business. - Kirsten
Oh, hey, this may be the first time I've ever done a little dance of celebration around a ceased journal. :) (another LSW thread on the topic here has more details: I'm still looking for an example -- beyond the obvious Time, Newsweek, People, etc. -- of "crap you don't want students citing, right here in <strikethrough>River City</strikethrough> our databases!" Any suggestions? - Catherine Pellegrino
Proquest has Seattle's The Stranger. - DJF from Android
Stephen Francoeur
Do you know by heart your library ID# or barcode #?
Yes. Both work and my local public library. - ellbeecee
For work yes, PL no. - Pete : Team Marina
90257862952. Yep. - RepoRat
Nope, but my browser has it stored. I just have to remember the first digit (7). - Catherine Pellegrino
Yes! though I got a new barcode on my ID and didn't tell the library system. - barbara fister
I don't know my barcode #, but I know the alternate ID I created for it. - Katy S
nope - DJF
barbara, how do you check things out, then? - DJF
I do have mine saved as a keyboard shortcut tho - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
Yep. - Jason P
I know the numbers of my PL one, but can never remember what order they go in. Work? Maybe first three digits, on a good day. (Remembering random strings of numbers is not a strong suit.) - Kirsten
I remember my credit-card number too. (Not gonna type it here tho. Don't ask.) - RepoRat
I JUST finally memorized it after 8 years. - Rochelle *boom* Hartman
I couldn't learn the first one. They gave me a new one when I moved, and for some reason that one was a breeze to learn. - Betsy
RR, what's your credit card number (by heart, please, and with CCV and exp date)? - Uli
Yes, all 14 digits of it! - Lisa Hinchliffe
I can probably be attacked via social engineering. BUT IT'S GONNA BE HARDER THAN THAT Y'ALL. - RepoRat
you mean there are people who DON'T have their credit card numbers memorized? - DJF
I don't have mine memorized … relying instead on the keyboard shortcut. - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
No. This is this first card I've had since junior high where I didnt tho. also first time I've had a publib w/ username for placing holds that wasnt my card# - Hedgehog from Android
I can, however tell you a number from jr high/high school 120204588926 - Hedgehog from Android
i know my publib one but not my work one - Christina Pikas
Work, yes; public no. This work one is much shorter than the last which I also knew (and shorter than the public). - Rebecca Hedreen
Nope, I keep it in a password-locked local Evernote note so I can copy/paste whenever I need to log in and renew things. - MontglaneChess
Work yes, pub lib no - Joe
I have had it memorized for years. - Julian
I have everything memorized. It's a curse. I still remember some NDC codes from when I was a pharmacy assistant and CPT codes from when I worked at a surgery center. - kaijsa
00085-1132 is an albuterol inhaler. Never forget! - kaijsa
Yes and everyone at my library is amazed I have it memorized - John: Thread Killer
Our ID system doesn't talk to our patron records, so I have no idea what my new barcode is - and neither does our ILS. I aim to keep it that way rather than memorize a new 14-digit number. - barbara fister
I am with Kaijsa. I have managed to forget a few barcodes, but 6-20-16 was my junior high locker combo. - laura x from iPhone
Nope. I know my Texas driver license number, though. - Meg VMeg
I did, but then I became a donor to the library and they issued me a special card. That's nice, but it had a new number :( - Heather Piwowar from iPhone
sure, although it's not really required because my browser will remember it ... thankfully, for work and school it's all connected to AD logins so there's nothing extra to remember. - henry
Work yes, public no. - Steele Lawman
Public library, 14 digits, yes. :) - Rachel Walden
Mostly - FLEMING from Android
barbara fister
Caption contest!
"Winner of the ACRL's prestigious Herman J. Schmidlap Award for Irony in a Scholarly Publication." - Catherine Pellegrino
(no caption, but if you need it, I have access) (I WANT to have an snarky yet witty caption but dammit, the helpful side just comes out) - ellbeecee
"Man, if only I could access this article about what happens when people lose access." - Andy
"I'd recommend this article to my librarian, but my library has shut its doors." - Regular Amanda
^^^^^^^^^^ win, sadly. - RepoRat
by The Government of Canada. - John Dupuis
(Health Canada library closures do seem to be mentioned in the article. Not coincidentally, they are also in the news right now: - John Dupuis
Good news coverage. - barbara fister
This morning's pre-caffeinated intellectual hamster wheel of librarian geekery: Are newspaper blogs any different, really, than newspaper articles? Should they really be cited as a different format? Is there any difference in authoritative quality/value?
I think so, yes. I would think of blogs as the step before a printed editorial, I think. AFAIK, there's not the editorial process fully in place for them, and the speed of publication causes some concerns for quality. - ~Courtney F
It probably varies from one paper to another. In some cases, they are essentially op/ed columns, with some appearing in print (cf Krugman @ nyt). In some newsrooms there are different editors for digital. It's all very confused. I think rather than "newspaper article" we should think in terms of "news" vs "opinon" vs "feature" but citations don't do that. i have been noodling a threshold concept - type concept on this very thing. - barbara fister
I would cite them as blogs. perhaps with more credibility than your average blog, but with less credibility than a printly, published op-ed piece, and mostly less gravitas than a published news story. Tho as bf notes, there are exceptions. #formerNewspaperLibn #CurrentJournalismSchoolLibn - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
I think format is going to become less and less important going forward. We need to teach students (and faculty) to evaluate each source on its own merits. I'm not saying format doesn't matter at all, just that it is nothing in itself to hang one's hat on. - maʀtha
Exactly. But as new formats emerge, we have to make sure we understand them (this thread brought to you by trying to figure out if I understand newspaper blogs. And the merits therein..... News blogs are fine/perfect for the content analysis I'm doing right now about rhetoric of the Bundy situation. But as I have been reading them in such quantity, I'm finding the only way I really know... more... - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
A couple of our local crazy fuc*ers are "official" bloggers for the statewide newspaper, so yeah, I'd cite them differently. - Louise "Weezy" Alcorn
news articles are more likely to have been edited by a professional editor and/or at least another person with journalistic experience. Not sure about news blogs; I might ask around to see what my colleagues' consensus is on that. - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
Meg VMeg
I'm teaching Scrivener (in combination with Zotero) tomorrow (for the first time). Any advice/thoughts would be much appreciated, though you are all probably asleep by now.
I am not asleep, only 9:15 here. But I don't know scrivener. Sorry. - Joe
Interesting. Also don't know scrivener - but curious why/to whom you are teaching it. - barbara fister
Fascinating. I had a student in my office trying to figure out how to make Scrivener work with Zotero, and we were unable to come up with a solution that worked for him. I;m assuming this workshop means we missed something? (would you be willing to share your slides or worksheets or notes?) - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
this is what we recommend for Zotero/Scrivener integration: ; for smaller projects, RTF scan will often do, too: - adamsmith
Yep, we found those. He did not like either option. (I think the key part of our dilemma was in finding what "worked for him" and he wanted something seamless. Lo, the impossible dreams!) - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
oooooh i'd like to see that. I've got Scrivener on my laptop for my GREAT AMERICAN NOVEL. heh - LibrarianOnTheLoose
I was teaching Scrivener and Zotero (and their potential integration) to history grad students (a few of whom apparently use Scrivener to manage their digitized primary sources rather than as a writing tool, which was interesting). Hey, does anyone know if you can mix Zotero-formatted footnotes with normal non-citation footnotes in Word? I assume not, but can't find anything official, and can't install Zotero on my computer until they fix it. - Meg VMeg
don't know about Z, but in RefWorks, you can. the way you insert a citation footnote is to use word's feature and then hit the insert there... it's probably the same - Christina Pikas
Zotero actually renders the footnote though. I guess inserting it using Word is still an option, if you needed to have non-citation formats. - Meg VMeg
Hot damn, you can mix Zotero-formatted footnotes and Word-inserted (non-citation) footnotes in Word for Windows 2010, at least. I'm stunned. It re-numbers everything when you move from Chicago to APA and back. - Meg VMeg
That works for all word processors with Zotero add-on (would be a disaster if it didn't). Zotero actually just tells the program "insert footnote here", so it's doing the same thing you do when inserting a footnote manually. - adamsmith
I am well used to those kinds of disasters :) - Meg VMeg
One of my goals from my performance evaluation is to create learning objectives for some of my one-shot sessions. In the past I've gotten some resistance from my supervisor when I've suggested adding a form of assessment to the end of1 shots. We typically use an end of semester Likert scale questionnaire. I think she's worried....
..that doing both is too much assessment. Thoughts? - YvonneM
there's such a thing as "too much assessment"? *boggles* - RepoRat
too much if there's survey fatigue... but i don't think that's the case here. I think you should do some assessment at the end of each class - Christina Pikas
So, the Likert thing is at the end of the semester? And you're wanting to do a quickie-assessment thing at the end of your session? I can't see how that could be "too much" since they're so widely separated in time. - Catherine Pellegrino
Let's break the assumption that assessment = separate survey. Much better to use performance analysis anyway. Just gather up the work students are doing in the session as part of learning and analyze it. Saves class time too. - Lisa Hinchliffe
Also (and you probably know this, which is why you're wanting to add some assessment to your one-shot), what you learn from an assessment is VERY VERY DIFFERENT from what you learn as a result of a Likert-scale "were you satisfied" survey. *cough* *cough* - Catherine Pellegrino
And ALSO, Lisa is very very smart. :) - Catherine Pellegrino
Thanks everyone. A few years back I asked her about using Survey Monkey and she reacted negatively. & I don't know how to address this reaction whenever i bring up 1 shot assessment--almost as if she thinks I'm dissing the survey, which she created?.** Lisa, they usually end up searching through databases--should I give them a mini-assignment, like writing down their search terms, and then collect these during class + hand them back? Sorry if this is a silly question. - YvonneM
Yvonne, something like that is what we do for our 1-shots with freshmen. Here's some info and sample assignments/assessments: and - ~Courtney F
I struggle with what Lisa said. Whatever worksheets/in-class work I have them do in class I want to leave the room with them, in however faint hope that they will feel inspired to keep moving on the roll we got them on. The time between a successful initial search and my grading/returning the worksheet to them feels like a damage.... - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
We look at student work - papers, projects - for signs of information literate life, but not to directly assess learning that librarians directly facilitate. More to see what our seniors are capable of and where they are still struggling. Our indirect one shot assessments as about confidence and ask them some other what-if type questions. We just decided to give it a rest next year to... more... - barbara fister
Well, RudĩϐЯaЯïan - in the olden days we used NCR paper for their worksheets so they left a copy. But, now, maybe have the worksheet be an online form that emails to them and you? - Lisa Hinchliffe
YvonneM - yes, exactly! I'd pick one thing you want them to learn, ask yourself about how you would know if they learned it, and then collect the activity they'd do to show it to you. I love figuring this stuff out so please feel free to describe in more detail or shoot me an email with specifics! :) - Lisa Hinchliffe
we've started using shared Google Docs with our students (previously used NCR worksheets). - ~Courtney F
Question about surveys … I just did training for ~20 people (2-3 at a time) for a class. I want to survey them to see how effective the training was. Survey is optional & confidential. Besides that, are there any issues I would be concerned with before sending to the attendees?
I wouldn't think so. Saying that it is confidential should get you truthful responses. I would also poll them in six months to see if they are able to incorporate your lessons into their everyday workflow. - ♫Robot Chicken, Trainer♫
i don't think so. - Christina Pikas
their assignment is due this week, so the questions will include "did you use X-Y-Z in your assignment." Thanks for the confirmation. :-) - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
I don't think so either; I hope you get interesting/useful responses! - Galadriel C.
i would try to make sure I asked practical questions - such as the one you mentioned - rather than "are you satisfied" questions that make them feel like they are rating the survey giver. you probably don't need that advice :D. - Marianne
I'm supposed to give a survey worksheet at the end of all of my classes. I don't like it because it's all touchy feely --there's nothing practical I can get out of it. There's only one question I'm required to use, keep meaning to rework the thing. - Hedgehog
I like my end of class evaluation form. I wonder if I ever posted it? - Christina Pikas from iPhone
We send ours out on paper to be distributed in class two weeks or so after the session. Questions are mostly learning oriented not teacher eval oriented. Someday we hope to make it online but it's hard to get results unless it's done in class. - barbara fister
I offered them info. on how to cite the Bloomberg terminal at the end of the survey (and also offered to email it to them, so not biasing those who submit survey). Of 4 results, all 4 said "smaller class sessions." Agreed, but I already kept them to FIVE per session. I might do this survey thing again; so far, so good. - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
Holly's favorite Anna
Anybody here ever receive an invoice or request to return a book to Edwin Mellin Press that was sold through the Amazon Marketplace?
Huh? no. - barbara fister
I don't think so. - Galadriel C.
C&RL 75th Anniversary Special Issue | Association of College & Research Libraries (ACRL) -
Academic-library LSWers, please vote. (Personal bias disclosure: there's a lot of futurist-defeatist junk on the list that I'd like to see voted down. I would also LOVE to see Malenfant's UMN scholcomm article make it.) - RepoRat from Bookmarklet
holy cow, they totally missed: Taylor, R. S. (1968). Question-negotiation and information seeking in libraries. College & Research Libraries, 29(3), 178-194. - Christina Pikas
write it in guys! - Christina Pikas
ok, I know the point was supposed to be for me to go and look at these seriously and vote, but unfortunately with the state I'm in today, all I got is randomly reading snippets of, sharing them out loud to my coworker, and alternating between giggle fits and consternation of at least 3 different flavors. - Marianne
such a weird mixture of "the past is a different country" and WHY IS THIS STILL THIS WAY with a side of wow, dude. - Marianne
good gawd that one is seriously horrific, isn't it. - RepoRat
Voted for Malenfant and some others that seemed like they had an impact. Not that I agreed with the impact, but they had some impact. - Joe
At least one of my coworkers up there for his 1980s paper. - Hedgehog
I voted a while back and did choose Malenfant's article because it has been useful to me. I wrote in Michelle Holschuh Simmons' excellent 2005 article, Librarians as Disciplinary Discourse Mediators: Using Genre Theory to Move Toward Critical Information Literacy. I know it won an ACRL research award, but I think it deserves more mad props. - kaijsa
This is rather embarassing. - barbara fister
How so? - maʀtha
I can't find six articles I would vote for. - barbara fister
ah - maʀtha
You're allowed to vote for fewer and write one in. I don't disagree with you, though. - RepoRat
I voted for 2 and wrote one in - Christina Pikas from iPhone
I voted for two plus a write-in also. - kaijsa
Stephen Francoeur
Anyone know anything about PhilPapers? Just got a weird email from them that seems a bit off in tone. Here's a snippet. "Those institutions that have not purchased a subscription by June 1, 2014 will have their access restricted in various ways explained on the site. Since PhilPapers replaces traditional commercial indexes, we believe that it is...
Since PhilPapers replaces traditional commercial indexes, we believe that it is appropriate for university libraries to support the service by purchasing subscriptions. This is why we write to you. " - Stephen Francoeur
Then, I'm told that 22 faculty and students use the site. As far as I can tell, there are no faculty. Just students. Anyone seen anything like this before? It reminds me a bit of the problem arXiv is having in getting institutions to pitch in with $$$ but I've never even heard of PhilPapers before. - Stephen Francoeur
I've never heard of it either. Looks like it is a free site that scrapes the content of various publishers. I'd guess that it replaces traditional commercial indexes the way Google Scholar has replaced traditional commercial indexes. Not quite yet. - Joe
MPOW hosts PhilPapers, starting last year when we recruited the guy that created it. Yeah, the group that runs it is having problems figuring out a stable funding situation, and they do think that the larger schools should be paying a bit for it. The people I know in the field find it very useful. - DJF
There's a certain tone-deafness in saying, "hey, we built this thing that you didn't ask for, or even know about, and some folks at your university may have kicked its tires once or twice to see what it does, so now we're going to send you a threatening email demanding that you pay for it." - Catherine Pellegrino
Wayne has updated his blog post following an email conversation he's had with Bourget. It also looks like the message that went out to people who subscribe to the PhilPapers newsletter might have had a slightly different tone from the one that librarians have received. - DJF
I guess they are working on users too, because I heard from one of my philosophy profs today that she wants us to make sure we retain access once this goes to a pay model. - Steele Lawman
Hi Everyone. PhilPapers is a very widely used service in philosophy. We have 65,000 registered members and half a million visitors per month, about half of which are returning users. This is huge for a research tool in philosophy. However, since PhilPapers has always been entirely free, there has never been any reason for librarians to be involved in setting up access to it. As a... more... - David Bourget
P.S. Sorry about the tone. We obviously got that wrong and should have explained more. For more background see my comment on Wayne's blog here: - David Chalmers
If only you'd talked to one of your local librarians before sending the message out. - DJF from Android
Hi David and David -- thank you for commenting here and explaining the situation more fully! I appreciate your taking the time to do that, and the situation sounds a lot more reasonable than I'd characterized it above, so I apologize for my snarky tone above. I've just taken on liaison duties to the Philosophy department at my college (which isn't on the list, despite being one of many... more... - Catherine Pellegrino
thanks for the information on this y'all, especially David and David. I didn't get that message, but I'll pass it on to the philosophy liaison so that she can talk to the department about it and see if they have any money to kick in. I do have one small note of concern in that the site identifies faculty/students by this something that when folks register are aware of? - Sir Shuping is just sir
I'm happy that they pushed the date back but it's still way too soon. A 6-month window would have been more in line with the way interface changes/license changes are offered. Plus, our $ are all gone for this fiscal year (ends in June). If we know far enough in advance, we can encumber the funds and plan for it. Not happy with the way this played out and not making me terribly... more... - Stephen Francoeur
For some reason that I don't entirely understand, Wayne Bivens-Tatum deleted his original blog post at Academic Librarian about this and then posted a new one: My comments on the original post have now gone poof, too. - Stephen Francoeur
Stephen yeah on the money as well. I hadn't thought of that til I started writing the email. $500 isn't bad compared to other things, but my library has no way of paying for this for the upcoming year given that we're already tight with just keeping access to what we have and whether the department or someone else at the univ. can swing it, i don't know. I can kinda understand why Wayne... more... - Sir Shuping is just sir
Could someone refresh my memory on the link to the information about subscribers on their site? - lris
I'm also bothered by the lack of user privacy in this, and the money issue is very real. Since most of our registered users are faculty, they're very interested in supporting. But they're going to have to cancel a journal subscription or two in order to pay for it, and we don't do our journal renewal until this summer. There's no way we can start a new subscription until after the... more... - Kirsten
Thanks. Sir. - lris
I wish W B-T hadn't deleted his post and the comments. I understand the urge to retract but now I'm even more confused. - barbara fister
Concerning the privacy issue, do the faculty and students know that they are going to be listed on the website as a user of the database? That is really the first time that I had seen that. Maybe it is part of a click through agreement when you sign up for the database. - Joe
Even more from Wayne Bivens-Tatum on PhilPapers: - Stephen Francoeur
And perhaps PhilPapers could talk to librarians at their own institution, if this hasn't happened? - maʀtha
Still not that I know of, but I haven't asked the Phil librarian about it - DJF from Android
I do find it a little disheartening that, before launching a subscription drive aimed at libraries, they wouldn't first take a few minutes to talk to a librarian at their home institution. Maybe they did, or maybe they tried and didn't get a response, I don't know. On the other hand, I am glad to see an OA project like this in the humanities! - Regular Amanda
On privacy: as it says at the top of the listing, some users have opted to make their profiles private and do not appear there. It is possible to opt out. The profiles listed are public profiles created on purpose by PhilPapers members. Everyone knows that these profiles are public and we go to great lengths to allow everyone to opt out if that's their wish. PhilPapers isn't just a... more... - David Bourget
On contacting librarians: I didn't reply to this point earlier, but, yes, we did talk to librarians at UWO (three in total), and we followed their advice. We also wrote to about 20 other librarians. Then our first batch of communications was sent to an initial sample of 35 librarians. We talked to a lot of librarians before we made our campaign public, and we paid very close attention to everything they said. - David Bourget
barbara fister
Do anybody no a librarian living in Las Vegas? I have an unusual need for a volunteer sherpa.
I know this guy a little bit... Cory Tucker at UNLV. What kind of Sherping do you need? - Joe
Rudy is at UNLV, too. - ωαřмaiden ❤Bassetmom❤
I thought she was at UNR up the road? Both can gamble though. - Joe
Tom Ipri used to be there. I wonder if he can offer suggestions. - Stephen Francoeur
Rudy's at UNR :). but, what kind of sherpa-ing do you need? - RudĩϐЯaЯïan from YouFeed
Are you traveling there to shift the stacks or something? ;) - maʀtha
(aren't the sherpas going on strike?) - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
I mean, who would you need a library sherpa for on the road? You are a librarian of mystery - maʀtha
Should it be spelled sherping or sherpaing? - Joe
I'm acquainted with a couple of people at UNLV who are different people from the one that Joe knows. - ellbeecee
I know a few UNLV people. One of my former colleagues here took a job there 6 weeks ago. - kaijsa
A public librarian who is cooridinating the Sisters in Crime booth at ALA needs someone local (or nearby) whose mailing address could be used to collected donations of books, then to deliver them to the ALA exhibit hall. Probably about four boxes of mysteries, something like that. (There are drawings. People seem happy to get free books without knowing anything about them other than that they are free.) We may have some volunteers further afield but thought I'd check on locals. - barbara fister
Emailing with a faculty member about why he can't just log on to St. Olaf e-resources. Blerg.
His response is on the one hand commiserating and supportive, and on the other hand frustrating because he suggests that maybe someone should raise this as an issue to be solved. I'm sad that libraries get cast as gatekeepers when we often have so little power. - lris
Yes - maʀtha
Raise this as an issue? We should have thought of that! </snark> - barbara fister
replace "St. Olaf" with "Notre Dame" and welcome to my life. :/ - Catherine Pellegrino
replace "St. Olaf" with Columbia, NYU, and the 21 other schools in CUNY and welcome to my life. :-( - Stephen Francoeur
Is it in poor taste to cast the blame back on faculty? So often I want to say: this is the system you all collectively built and actively maintain! - Freeda B.
we might want to clean up our own house before we do that. - RepoRat
I think faculty are not in a position of power here, either. Sure, the rank and tenure processes make changing scholarly communication avenues a chore, but faculty didn't make the decisions about lending ebooks. - lris
Hell, the faculty here actively work against us even buying ebooks (and I'm on their side) - DJF
We have a browser button that some people like to use. (Developed by a chemistry student.) I think that has helped some people figure out an easy way to log into content that we subscribe to without having to go through the library linkages. See the thing about the DU Lib Proxy. - Joe
Yeah, here it's less about OA and more about "we're two distinct institutions that share a founding congregation and an online catalog, but that's about all we share, despite your fervent desire that the situation be otherwise." The provosts of the two institutions got together recently and hatched a Brilliant Plan for the bigger university to just "add" our smaller college to their... more... - Catherine Pellegrino
Yeah, it's REALLY hard to share stuff if you're not a single funding agency. We would have to incorporate if we wanted to be able to sign agreements together. - lris
My public library version of this is, "Yes, I know you have a Coralville Public Library card, but do you live in Coralville, University Heights, or rural Johnson county? Because if you live in Iowa City or Hills, you will have to use your Iowa City card to get ebooks, and if you live somewhere else, well, then, they might belong to one of these two other groups...." - laura x
LOLsob - lris
The combining FTEs thing sometimes works on vendors/publishers. My uni has successfully negotiated statewide access to databases, ebook packages from Proquest, Gale, Lexis-Nexis and probably others I'm forgetting. So we pay and all community colleges, schools, and publics in Wyoming get remote access. Our small population is a big reason why we get away with it, but if a big school says they will pay for a sub if they can add on a small school, it can work. You can do this with an MOU. - kaijsa
Dang it! Now I want a Sugar Daddy school! ;) - lris
Yep, I was going to say that too. We subscribe to med/science titles "consortially-ish" with a few smaller, affiliated institutions because we're so big that everyone else is a drop in the bucket (I have no idea what the extra-library university/administrative financial entanglements might involve). - Meg VMeg
Coming back to say that the ebook issue is still a big deal and a huge pain in the rear, etc. etc. Not trying to minimize that at all. Steve, Marianne, and Joe and I are all in the same consortium and I'm sure have all had to explain to a patron from another school why they can't access one of our ebooks that tantalizingly sits there in the shared catalog. To make it more confusing, we... more... - kaijsa
^^^ yep - Steele Lawman
Crazy mashup of shared catalogs and proprietary collections. Hello, new world. Ugh. - barbara fister
Possible silver lining: it's going to be hard to get these problems fixed until faculty are aware of them, and obviously they're becoming aware. The trick there, of course, is how to get their outrage pointed in the right direction. - RepoRat
One thing that's really not working in our favor is that Carleton and St Olaf have been branding our libraries as "two collections working as one." All of a sudden people are saying, "hey why can't I use St Olaf stuff? I thought our collections work as one." - lris
"One System One Library [only not]" fistbump. - RepoRat
ayup - lris
You ever want to share a link, and have the person you are sharing it with go to the exact spot you are looking at? The ability to embed your own anchor tags into someone else's page without needing your friend/colleague to install a third party product. THAT, that is what I want
Like footnotes. See "trails of association" in the other convo about discovery. - barbara fister
Ah. Yes. Wonderfully synchronistic - FLEMING from Android
Lisa Hinchliffe
Working on drafting principles for discovery/delivery/access. (Note: not for a web-scale discovery system but rather conceptual/strategic.) Care to opine? (See first comment for text.)
1) Fully Develop and Deploy as Few General Tools as Possible 2) Wide-Scale Implementation of Adaptive/Contextual Assistance 3) Library in User Workflow 4) Fewest Steps from Discovery to Delivery 5) Everything Owned/Licensed/Provided Should be Discoverable 6) Full Library Discovery – Content, Services, Spaces 7) Consistent Language/Labeling 8) Greatest Discovery/Delivery at Lowest Cost - Lisa Hinchliffe
Do you feel like open access falls under 5? (6? 8?) I don't know if it is a foundational principle of discovery/access, but I feel like currently there is a real problem with integrating free content into the avenues of library discovery. - Freeda B.
Looks comprehensive. Any one of these points would be tough to pull off. I believe (2) is particularly tough with off the shelf packages. - aaron
"Provided" is our attempt at open content but with the concept of "selection" added in. We aren't looking to be Google. But, COMPLICATED! :) And, yes - these are a vision worth working toward ... not likely to be ever fully achieved! - Lisa Hinchliffe
I was about to suggest 'selected' in place of 'provided' because as you say, we don't want our discovery layer to index *all* the open access resources if our users are focused only on certain subject areas (as at MPOW). But yeah, all that looks pretty awesome. - Deborah Fitchett
Trails of association made visible and useful. Vannevar Bush. (But not with the microfilm part.) - barbara fister
"although I found the paper on a .org website, the fact that it is also in PubMed gives the published paper more authority" Discuss among yourselves.
I'm totally overthinking it, but I'm not certain it's a wrong statement. We do believe that the things in databases are quality, right? A database source gives an item more claim, yes? I think it's bugging me because it's not actually true? Or is it? (she says as she chases her tail....) - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
It's a correlation/causation fallacy. It's not more authoritative because it's in PubMed; it's in PubMed because it's more authoritative. (Or actually it's in PubMed because it's in [journal] because it was judged by hopefully authoritative people to be of sufficient quality/importance.) - Deborah Fitchett
okay, so, the problem is it doesn't tell you very much. there are lame things in PubMed. in itself, being in PubMed doesn't really tell you anything about the credibility, relevance, or authority of the source. so, it doesn't hurt her case, but it doesn't help it either. - maʀtha
also, in the age of OA, I'm uncomfortable with claims that a source is somehow more credible because it is owned by the library or in a database we pay buckets of money for - maʀtha
Ah, Martha's just clarified for me what was bugging me about what I just said. That is: *some things* are in PubMed because they're more authoritative. Other things are in PubMed for other reasons. From this end of it we don't know which things are in for which reasons, and that makes it hard to assess whether it's authoritative. - Deborah Fitchett
Yeah, authority comes from the creator, not the database. There are white supremacist rags in Academic Search Premier, and there are top notch works produced by Orgs. - lris
Yep. - maʀtha
Isn't mayo an org? - Christina Pikas from iPhone
You're right! I thought it was .com. - maʀtha
Exactly. So, it feels right (most folks do this, even if unconsciously)), but it isn't actually right. For students learning to identify authority, we practically force feed them that stuff in databases is the good stuff, right? But we don;t do it explicitly, so we leave the ins and outs of the details unsaid. (student isn't being graded down for this, I posted it here because it really struck me as identifying something) - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
We do? I don't think I know anyone who teaches that databases are de facto full of good stuff. - lris
The databases are a tool, just like search engines are a tool, and print indexes were a tool. There is nothing automagical about them that makes their content inherently better. I am constantly telling students, "It really is okay to use the Google. Here is how it can be helpful." Maybe there are instructors who tell students that the most important thing, and the only important thing... more... - maʀtha
Here are some more important questions: What is the source? How was it created, by whom, and for what purpose? In what culture does it exist? Can you tell how it fits into the larger universe of knowledge on this subject? and so forth - maʀtha
I think we imply it when we push the databases. I didn;t say we teach it. And this was a poor attempt to apply a lot of evluation criteria, but this one they pulled out of the air. We may as individuals take a different tact, but I think librarians, in general, send this message. (and especially at MPOW, where most folks go their middle years without seeing a librarian, ever. Profs... more... - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
I think you're conflating search tools and evaluation in ways that I haven't encountered. You can perform certain functions in databases that you can't in other places. And you can get to some content you can't get to other ways. But even with database results we still have to teach evaluation and critical thinking. I often teach google, Wikipedia, and a database, each as a tool with its pros and cons, each needing very similar evaluative skills. - lris
The fundamental problem here is the (on bad days not entirely groundless) belief that requiring students to *think* in this way is an idealistic but fundamentally hopeless goal and that the best we can hope to achieve is to train them to memorise a set of places that are good vs places that are bad and do research by, like a pigeon, pecking the right button to get the rewards of a good grade. - Deborah Fitchett
This assignment was that they search for their topic, and evaluate an item they found there, and also the potential usefulness of government information for their thesis topic. I didn't conflate evaluation and tool; the student evaluated with a criteria that suprisingly included tool, and I started thinking about how that entered into their toolbox. he wasn't explicitly taught it, but I do think he has been implicitly taught it along the way? Or at least, that's the theory I'm considering. - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
This doesn't surprise me at all. PubMed doesn't have a limit for peer-reviewed/scholarly content because the (research, non-editorial) articles largely tend to be peer-reviewed, so it is easy to come up with a correlation to authority. In fact, it's basically used as an advertisement for PubMed, that it doesn't include news/magazine sources. The medical literature employs a different (more nuanced?) scale of evidence than your "typical literature", though, so you have to think beyond peer-review. - Meg VMeg
I have heard librarians say "library databases are better than the free web" which tends to imply "if you use them, you'll always be safe." So yeah, I think in a sense people teach it. - barbara fister
I'm intrigued by the implicit ".org is less authoritative than .com" that seems to underlie the original statement. Am I reading too much into that? - Cameron Neylon
Oh, I read that as "Being on a .org site hints at a paper's authority, and indexing in PubMed confirms." PubMed isn't a .com. - Meg VMeg
I read it as "this advocacy group posted this info, but it's SCIENCE not advocacy and SCIENCE is truth." Or "it's not just on this website, it was published elsewhere and confirms what the website says." or something like that... - barbara fister
How do we feel about Likert scales for instructional evaluation?
Do you mean, as a way to rate instruction innovation? - Freeda B.
Students almost never select the always or never options. That has almost always been my experience. - barbara fister
Hi Freeda, I meant to put "evaluation." Corrected! - YvonneM
5 - DJF from Android
Could be appropriate depending on the question you're trying to answer... - Megan loves summer
Sir Shuping is just sir
happy birthday to the awesomeness that is the katy s!!!
Happy birthday Katy :) - Pete : Team Marina
Happy birthday, Katy! - RepoRat
Happy birthday, Katy! - Tamara J. B. from FFHound(roid)!
Happy birthday! - John (bird whisperer)
Happy birthday, Katy! Hope you have a lovely day! :) - Jenny H.
Happy birthday, Katy! Have a great day! - Stephan Planken from iPhone
Happy birthday :) - Eivind
Thanks! - Katy S from iPhone
Happy Birthday! I hope no one drops by unannounced :) - maʀtha
Many happy returns of the day, and hope it's a great one! - Lily
Happy birthday! - Stephen Mack from iPhone
Happy birthday! - Jen
Happy Bday!!!! - Just Val
Happy Birthday Katy!!! - Melly
Many happies! - barbara fister
Happy birthday, Katy! - Anne Bouey
Happy birthday Katy! - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
Happy birthday, Katy!! - Katie
Happy Birthday Katy!! - Hedgehog
Happy birthday, Darlin! - Starmama from FFHound(roid)!
Happy birthday, Miz Katy! - Corinne L
Have a great day! - YvonneM
Thanks, everyone! - Katy S
barbara fister
I'm hanging out with Iris today - aren't you jealous?
Well yes. - maʀtha
We had funz. - barbara fister from iPhone
Such a great time. :) - lris
barbara fister
YAY we're back, she says, sobbing with relief.
Okay, not really sobbing, but you know? I miss this place. - barbara fister
Thinking, at least partly because of Barbara Fister, of a conference discussion group thing entitled, "H important is patron confidentiality?" Key points to begin the discussion include the Amazon Kindle library deal, Overdrive, subscribing to services that require patrons to register at the vendors' sites (eg, Zinio), and search engines that...
rock on - maʀtha
and search engines that don't support secure network connections - DJF from Android
And ILSs that send your password in plain text.... - laura x
Yeah. Refworks does that too. - DJF from Android
good lord, really?! - RepoRat
also, hang tight for my next LJ column, which is about one small piece of this constellation of dilemmas. - RepoRat
The response to "I forgot my password" is an email message that includes ALL the usernames and passwords, in the clear, associated with the given email address. - DJF from Android
that just ain't right. - RepoRat
Nope. And it used to be the case that they didn't bother to obscure your password while you were typing it in on the mobile website. I really don't know why we pay for it at all. - DJF from Android
Our ILL system that keeps a record of everything you have ever requested. Ditto 3M and OneClickDigital. - kaijsa
The FBI will be pleased to know. (Ours keeps a record for too long - should be scrubbed on return. - barbara fister
Our ils scrubs on return, or when fines paid. Don't know about ill, but I suspect it's approximately forever - DJF from Android
I once had a conversation with an IT guy at my old library, who said, "you know, it's true that the ILS scrubs circ records as soon as the book is returned. It's also true that the ILS is backed up nightly." Gave me the right shivers, it did. - Catherine Pellegrino
IFRT might be interested in hosting such a discussion..... - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
Catherine Pellegrino
because Johns Hopkins University Press so conveniently placed these two articles next to each other for screenshotability:
What? That's totally a word. - Catherine Pellegrino
I was wondering if you guys were going to be in the same issue, and here you are back-to-back! - Steele Lawman
BFFs! - lris
this is how world domination starts... - jambina
well I for one welcome our new information-literacy overladies - RepoRat
^^ - Marie
That is one special issue of portal! - barbara fister
I will be pointing my colleagues to this issue while bragging that I know you both. - kaijsa
Wow, that's a VERY special issue! I know authors on 5 articles in that issue! Apparently, I know very exciting, very smart people! - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
laura x
Guest pass, guest pass, guest pass, study room, study room, study room (times many). - laura x
Books about how one becomes a chef for a kid and her mom doing a school project. Way fun. No books, but we explored the OOH and one of our career databases, and then they decided to go look at the prefaces to cookbooks (brilliant idea!). - laura x
Three computers down. - laura x
No, I cannot extend your time, because we have no open computers. - laura x
Soccer mom in urgent need of a computer... to update her FB profile photo. We also had to crop it. - laura x
Consumer Reports on air purifiers. - laura x
Assorted tax forms and publications for someone whose mother just died. - laura x
Print account, study room, and lots of dead air (first nice day in two weeks). - GretelSK
So many printing questions. So many study rooms. - laura x
Wow - maʀtha
Overheard at the research desk just now: "You are going to be a horrible boyfriend someday." - Steele Lawman
It's the Sunday at the tail end of spring break and student workers are suffering from schedule amnesia. - barbara fister
In the middle of clearing paper jams I get an IM grilling me about what reference librarians' work weeks are like. - Steele Lawman
Another IM, this one looking for EBSCO. - Steele Lawman
Public library Sunday: 10.5 hours of business crammed into 4 hours. - laura x from iPhone
Megan loves summer
I'm slow in coming across "The Oberlin Group Statement on Ebooks & Libraries" I don't think I've seen it posted here yet? Lofty words. Will publishers listen?
Not until we actually stop giving them money - DJF from Android
^^^ - Galadriel C. from Android
++DJF & Galadriel C - Aaron the Librarian
We don't give them money. YAY US. Also we have no money. Boo. - barbara fister
Reminds me to poke around for more OA books to catalog. - barbara fister
Here's a version of the talk I gave yesterday "Locations of Literacy: Information Literacy" (plenary panel at MnWE 2014) - (via
I love this. Thank you. - Megan loves summer
Fantastic piece! - Lisa Hinchliffe
So, so, so good! I'm sorry the conference was an organizational nightmare (literally for you). Thank you for sharing your talk. - barbara fister
Thank you! And thank you, Barbara, for recommending me to them. It was such an honor. - lris
Stephen Francoeur
So glad I finally met Secret Agent Fister, who gave the keynote at a really great conference on critical information literacy: I've been at CUNY as a librarian since 1999, but the last few years, I feel like our library association, LACUNY, has been hitting it out of the park with conferences and...
professional development opportunities. - Stephen Francoeur
:D - lris
Yep, you guys are great. I wish I could have been there! - Meg VMeg
It was amazing! And meeting Stephen was a big part of amazing. I agree that LACUNY (which has been around for decades) is holding fabulous conferences, so very happy to be part of it. My brain is full. - barbara fister
Feel like I'm overthinking this, so I'll ask: Do you consider documentaries primary sources? I'm inclined to "no". They are too processed and produced. But, I'm curious for the collective wisdom.
I would say no. The raw interview footage or whatever could be, but the director is editing and putting their POV on it. - Mary Carmen
what MC said. - Sir Shuping is just sir
Like all primary source issues, it kind of depends on the context. A newspaper article is constructed from a POV, but it's also a record of what people thought was happening at a particular time in history. Adam Curtis's BBC documentary about Henrietta Lacks could be a primary source for Rebecca Skloot's book as a record of public disucssion about the origin of the "immortal" cell line. (I *always* overthink primary sources as a category.) - barbara fister
Thanks all! (And Barbara, me too! So glad to be in good company!) I decided the documentary about folks talking about their cancer is not an appropriate primary source for the biochem student working on the effects of THC on tumors.... - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
Well, and that points to another challenge with primary sources: the term means different things in different disciplines. In the sciences, "primary sources" can mean research articles (i.e., published articles that report on the results of a study): - Catherine Pellegrino
Catherine, that's the struggle with this class. It's for honors students, pre-thesis, all disciplines. And mostly I have hard sciences, which are a huge struggle for me! I really don't know enough about the shape of scholarly comm in the sciences :( - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
I struggle too. Just wondering though, what difference does it make practically if you decide something is primary or not? - aaron
In my experience, it's a big deal for our biologists for students to distinguish what they generally call "primary articles" from other kinds of articles (reviews, journalism). In the case of history, students need to distinguish evidence from analysis, even if they appear in the same text. I try to resist too pat a definition because it's not that cut and dried. Ambiguity can frustrate students, but it's good for them. - barbara fister
funnily I get the most from engineering students... - aaron from YouFeed
Jaclyn aka spamgirl
Well, the good news is that, barring asbestos, we'll likely get to open the stacks sooner than we thought. Don't know whose photos these are, but linked from a friend's FB post.
Oh wow. :( - Marie
Oof. - Kirsten
oh, so sorry to see that. - barbara fister
Oh no - that looks like a major re-shelving project. - Jen
Whoa. - Galadriel C. from Android
Hate to think what it'd look like without the bungee cords. :-( - Deborah Fitchett
Wow. Best wishes for the re-opening. - kaijsa
Hmmmmm. - Joe
Walt Crawford
Hmm. I objected to a term I considered demeaning, and was informed that the group that uses it considers it a standard and accepted term, therefore... well, therefore I'm not sure what. I won't push the issue, but it's interesting that the group using a term gets to decide whether it's demeaning or not.
If the term is referring to the group itself then... well, yes? Who else should get to decide? - Deborah Fitchett
What's the term? - Andy
"paraprofessional" - Deborah: No, it's librarians referring to non-MLS-holders who work in libraries. Not a big deal, but a long-time irritant. Esp. since the blogger in question assured me that, oh, *I* was a librarian. Which I'm not. - Walt Crawford
Actually, Deborah, I can think of one good-size group in the U.S., at least, that cheerfully uses a term among/for themselves and will *correctly* be really pissed at anyone outside the group using it for them. I suspect there are others. - Walt Crawford
(I like the blogger who did this, and I don't want to make a big deal of it, but the Para Word has bugged me for a few, oh, decades. Even when, or especially when, the speaker makes Exceptions for a few of us Special Cases.) - Walt Crawford
Oh, right. Yes, I think the "No, they can't take offense at my word for them because it's the proper word" approach is a tad one-eyed. [As is (as you say) the "They're reclaiming for themselves this incredibly painful word and therefore it's totally okay for me to use it too" approach.] And the "But it's okay, *you're* not a mere X" line just makes it very clear it's all about perceived superiority. - Deborah Fitchett
did you suggest an alternative word? (for example, we say "staff" instead here, since that's their official designation from the university too) - ~Courtney F
I wondered about this too. Our staff once embraced the para word; they didn't find it demeaning, but now we tend to say "staff" which may or may not be inclusive of the library faculty, depending on the context. Jacob was arguing that the term "librarian' is appropriate for people who work in libraries regardless of whether or not they hold a master's degree, which he feels isn't... more... - barbara fister
In the patron (or 'user' if you must) view, anyone who works in a library is a librarian - even the student workers. The phrase "the user isn't broken" should apply here - Aaron the Librarian
I didn't suggest an alternative, but "staff" would have been great. Aaron: I'm a "patron" person, but at least "user" is better than...ugh..."customer." I understand Jacob's argument; I was objecting to the term, not the post. Although, actually, I disagree, since that makes the degree (which my wife has and I was too lazy/scared to get) even less worthwhile. - Walt Crawford
Staff can definitely be confusing when you have faculty employees. Sometimes an "all-staff" meeting means all of us, and sometimes I show up and am told that faculty are not included. #academiclibraryproblems. We say staff here, and sometimes are more specific when referring to a library specialist or a library assistant. I like "library workers," personally, or even "library professionals." - kaijsa
"Library workers" is fine. I consider myself a library professional, so can't object to that. - Walt Crawford
My library is in a semi-rural, very politically conservative area. A co-worker turned down a possible book acquisition in her liaison area, which she has a degree in. The book, which happens to support intelligent design, made its way onto our shelves anyway. :-/
And how did that happen? - Katy S from iPhone
I'd love to know, myself. She isn't one to make waves, so she'll probably overlook it. I'm not one to do so either (in real life anyway) but this really burns my biscotti. - YvonneM
Is her area religion or science? Because if they out that in science, I'd be furious. Dewey puts it with religion in the 200s, but I don't know where LC puts it. - Katy S from iPhone
Pretty sure ours are in the Bs. - barbara fister from iPhone
Hi, her area is biology. :-( And this particular book is substandard. :-( - YvonneM
Could it get misshelved? - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
I do biology, and I insist that these get cataloged for religion. I also had a student worker last year bring me a bunch of pamphlets he found when reshelving the (actual) evolution section. Someone went and stuffed them between the books. - Rebecca Hedreen
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