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Holly's favorite Anna
HathiTrust confuses me. Can someone explain to me what contents are available to anyone and what contents are not? How do you get access to the contents that are not freely available? I see info about costs for partnerships, but that seems to be for institutions that are using Hathi to host their digital content, not for access to other content.
SO MUCH TEXT. On every info page. Makes my head hurt, and I don't think I'm looking in the right places for the info I need, and I can't find those right pages. - Holly's favorite Anna
I <3 you so much for asking this Anna. I thought I was the only one who was unsure about what it was. Backup for Google books? An "oops, we shouldn't have given that stuff to Google, we'll do it for ourselves", An attempt to provide online content for users?, A stopgap measure until legalities are settled around orphan works because doing nothing is worse than doing something well-intentioned? - Kathryn is a free elf
Hathi began as a safe place for GBooks libraries to store the TBs of data coming back from teh g00g, yes. (That's why they went after and got trusted-digital-repository certification from CRL.) Being a library project, the next question Hathi asked itself was "what can we DO with all this stuff now that we have it?" The answer to that question is legally fraught, not just by copyright... more... - RepoRat
Mostly, you can't get access to the stuff that's not out of copyright -- YET. Is a waiting game. - Jenica
Hathi is also, somewhat back-burneredly, expanding its remit as a preservation repository. Some member orgs are working on using it as such for their own digitized materials. This is all small-scale at present; it seems likely to grow. - RepoRat
we are joining, partly for the preservation aspect. - jambina
We don't need it to store our digitized stuff. We're a small liberal arts college. Is there anything in it now that we need? How much does it cost to get access? That last question I have not been able to find anything that can answer it clearly. - Holly's favorite Anna
Those questions have no answer until the GBooks settlement plays itself out. - RepoRat
"until the GBooks settlement plays itself out"? I thought GBS was pretty much dead, dead, dead. Am I wrong? (Kathryn: "*until* legalities are settled around orphan works" is wonderfully optimistic.) - walt crawford
Hearing on Thursday or Friday, but yes, settlement looks pretty dead; I saw three different Smart People say that yesterday's Authors' Guild lawsuit is probably a reaction to settlement breakdown. I should have phrased it as "until several outstanding legal questions are resolved, by lawsuit resolution and/or legislative action." - RepoRat
A number of libraries are using the APIs from HathiTrust in their catalogs and discovery layers in various ways. Here's an example: - Stephen Francoeur
We're getting a lot of HathiTrust metadata I believe. - Pete's Got To Go
And here are some thoughts by Jonathan Rochkind from Johns Hopkins U about APIs from Google and HathiTrust. - Stephen Francoeur
And look, a bunch of authors are suing Hathi Trust! and YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO INDEX MY BOOKS NO NO NO!! And we'll sue on behalf of those copyright owners nobody can find. Cause somebody has to look out for their invisible selves. - barbara fister
i can't wait til the Quebec Writers Union finds out McGill is joining Hathi. maybe i should get an unlisted number. - jambina
btw, thank you all for this thread; it is helping me rethink my end-of-semester Google Books class session. - RepoRat
and thank you for this thread from ME, who didn't understand Hathi at all until about 10 minutes ago, and is still cross-eyed with perplexity at any mention of the Google Books Settlement. - Catherine Pellegrino
karen coyle just had a post that talked about this. - bibliotecaria from BuddyFeed
not sure if this is widely known but Hathitrust also makes econtent accessible for the disabled. This si one of the features of membership. It's a handy way to satisfy accessibility issues. - Elizabeth Brown
Aaron the Librarian
How are our central VA LSWians? Rumor had it that they had a 5.8 earthquake around 2pm today... Which apparently was felt from Albany to the Carolinas
Also felt in Toronto and Columbus Ohio. Not in my neck of the soybeans, though. - barbara fister
A friend of mine claims to have felt it here in northern Indiana, but I was completely oblivious. - Catherine Pellegrino
All well here, although it was an interesting moment when the building swayed. I've never been in an earthquake before. - bibliotecaria
Katy S
I'm curious: Would you expect most public library patrons to know that they can search for books in WorldCat? Would you expect them to know what WorldCat is? I was talking to someone today (who has been a librarian for a long time) who thought that they would. I didn't agree, but I thought I'd ask y'all.
Nope. Worldcat is a libraryworld thing. People do love its awesome once you show it to them, though. (ETA: That is, I dont think usual users - or even academic users - know what it is until theyre taught) - ωαřмaiden ❤Bassetmom❤
As a public library patron, I have absolutely no idea what that is, other than having seen it mentioned here on FF a few times. - Rochelle
Oh god no. No one ever knows what it is. - Meg VMeg
okay - so I'm not going crazy. She was so insistent, that I started to doubt myself. - Katy S
Nope. I only know of it because you told me about it several months ago. I've used it once in that whole time. - Anika
Same here - I've heard you guys talk about it, but outside of that? No. - Jennifer Dittrich
I only really got to know what WorldCat is in my collection development class this summer. - Derrick
As a patron of many years' standing, I had never heard of it. - Anne Bouey
Nope. I know I was first exposed to FirstSearch when I was in college, so that's probably when I first used WorldCat. Not sure if I really became familiar with it until I worked in cataloging. - Laura
No. Maybe 20%, and those would be the history/english major types. - Joe
I'd be surprised if most public library patrons knew about Worldcat--especially if the local catalog doesn't feature it heavily. - walt crawford
Agree with everyone. The general patron would not know about Worldcat. - Fiona Jones
<small>I'd actually be surprised if all librarians knew. Many, yes. Possibly even most but I'm less sure of that...</small> (Oh, though I still follow the habit of the general public of including all people who work in a library as a librarian.) - Deborah Fitchett
before open worldcat came out, the public library where I worked didn't have access to worldcat in the branches and the librarians didn't know what it was because they'd gone to library school before it. i hope the librarians know about it now, but there's no way the patrons do - Christina Pikas
I'm not sure I really learned about it until I became a librarian and a good part of that is because I'm the ILL person. I've got professors that thought they knew every trick in the book about research in their area and they always look surprised when I show them worldcat. And these guys know their stuff about research. - Sir Shuping is just sir
I just searched my public library website to see if I could find anything about it. The only mention I found is a link to it in a section about teen homework help, along with links to Internet Public Library, Google, and Wikipedia. The explanation there says, "Look into other libraries catalogs for your search at WorldCat -- the world's largest network of library content and services." - Rochelle
This is why I always try to link to WorldCat when I mention a book in any of my blogs, or Facebook, or anytime I'm sharing info about a book with someone online. I think it's sad that people don't know what WorldCat is. I mean, it's linked to from Google Books! - Laura Krier
Tim from LibraryThing used to rail against WorldCat with the line that it was being out-performed by a social network for dogs: That was in 2009. WorldCat is now better than Dogster, but not by much: - copystar
When I was doing Library Leadership Network, I made sure that all references to books linked to records--partly because the alternative (and the way contributed articles sometimes arrived) seemed to be linking to Amazon, and I thought pointing directly to a bunch of libraries was far superior. - walt crawford
I'm an average person who knows about it but doesn't really use it. I suppose if I had to do some serious research I would look into using it. Most average people might encounter it in college, though I don't think it came up at all while I was in school. Maybe it comes up more now. Short answer is, no, I wouldn't assume that most people know about it. Many people probably barely know about making library holds, let alone WorldCat. - Kamilah Reed (K. Gill)
I generally point to as it likely our library catalogue will have seamless integration with their holdings via API: .. for free ;) For more info: - copystar
WorldCat is 'when Amazon fails' search site. Also, I use it for showing patrons where they can find certain books if they are so inclined to drive and look. (With Princeton and Philadelphia colleges and universities being so close, it is a viable option for some.) Otherwise, it's for finding the really rare or niche stuff. I was helping someone who wanted books written by Elijah... more... - Andy
IIRC, I didn't discover FirstSearch -- and I didn't even hear the word Worldcat mentioned -- until graduate school for Literature. I don't think I was atypical. The average user? Absolutely does NOT know what Worldcat is or even that it exists. - bibliotecaria
Thanks, everyone! - Katy S
a subset of our patrons would know what it is, but that's because (at least for now) all of our requests for materials go through ILLiad, so some people at least know they can use Worldcat to pull in all the info. definitely not everyone. - holly #ravingfangirl
I wouldn't expect public library patrons to know that. Maybe academic library patrons would, but I wouldn't take that for granted, either. - John (bird whisperer)
would people encounter worldcat from googling? - aaron from BuddyFeed
Worldcat links tend not to pop up in the first pages of a search, at least in my experience of searching book titles. This is probably self-fulfilling obscurity, given the way search results reward popularity. - barbara fister
Worldcat pages are indexed by Google? I thought that was the point of Open Library. - Meg VMeg
They are there - but well hidden. I've been running into "wordcat identities" today, too. - barbara fister
Since our library is closing down soon, but we'll be leaving the records online for awhile, we were going to add a link to each record that says, "find this in Worldcat." But since we also figured nobody would know what that is, we will probably say either, "find this item at a library," or, "find this at a library near you." Suggestions welcome. - Laura Norvig from iPod
I don't know what that is. - Eric - Final Countdown
Since MPOW hasn't contributed holdings information to OCLC for years now, I'd only recommend using WorldCat for stuff one can't find in our [insert word for "catalog," since it is strongly preferred that we not use such library-like (OOPS... in trouble for using the L-word) words]. - Julian
Off topic, if not catalog, what word do you use instead to be less library-like? - aaron
We haven't figured it out yet. Certain words are strongly preferred for us to not use, if not outright BANNED. For example, "share." Never would we "share" our holdings information with another organization. (Hopefully, if we don't have it, someone else locally who does "contribute" -- more preferred word -- to WorldCat does.) - Julian
Huh, you have words you can't use, but haven't figured out what to replace it with... I think a certain word would come to mind, but I haven't figured it out yet. - aaron
This is going to be hard. But if someone asked you for tax rates (personal, income, VAT) for as many developing countries (asian etc) for as long a period as possible say 1945/1960 to present. What would be the most complete source?
Without looking, I would suggest something like the WTO, The Economist, a large scale bank / investment house... - Pete's Got To Go
Not 100% sure it would have everything you need, but my best suggestion would be the RIA Checkpoint database from Thomson Reuters ($). - Elizabeth from BuddyFeed
I'd consider the CIA factbooks if you have access to the older ones, but, like Pete, I'm not checking the source for inclusion. Maybe something in the World Bank or the OECD? - ellbeecee
ISI emerging markets? - jambina from Android
OECD has info on taxing wages - Historical rates (old definition) (eISSN: 2074-4307 DOI: 10.1787/tax-data-en ) - my access goes back to 1979, but I wonder if they published print versions of their Tax Statistics and if they'd be available. Aaron, give me an email address, or email me - and I'll send you a sample so you know if this is what you need - if you don't have access to the OECD iLibrary - ellbeecee
Wait, never mind. I always forget that the OECD doesn't contain all/many developing countries - ellbeecee
Yeah first thing we looked oecd..great but as you note not many developing.. worldbank which i also tried already is really incomplete. The rest are interesting ideas. Thanks.. Really helpful. - aaron
did you try google books? maybe someone already wrote a comparative history or something? (that would be very lucky) - Christina Pikas
I think World Development Indicators (from the World Bank) is where I'd start looking, if you have access. - kaijsa
Would the UN or IMF have any data? - bibliotecaria
Thanks all, tried all of them already. - aaron
An interesting experiment from Karen Coyle in coding RDA in XML: (please note that I don't know enough about either to really comment; just think it's nice to see a non-MARC example of how this could work)
#ooh talk that library talk, girl. - MoTO Boychick Devil
Well, it was an experiment, and I don't think it really took advantage of what RDA can do. It still followed some of what is, to me, a legacy of AACR2 in MARC. But it showed some of the potential. - bibliotecaria
LB needs a break.
LSW roll call: Who's here from New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Delaware, Virginia, West Virginia, or DC? Looking for some contacts in those states. Julian? Maurice? Alan? Who else?
I used to live in MD about 16 years ago.... - Joe
Well, you mentioned me already, but I am in Maryland. - Alan
Andy's in Jersey, i think - ωαřмaiden ❤Bassetmom❤
Aaron Dobbs is in PA. But I think he's on vacation so you might not hear from him anytime soonish :) - ellbeecee
Christina Pikas is also in Maryland - Alan
Technically I must always be on vacation (i've fixed as many problems while on vacation as i do when I'm working-and that number is in the high double digits) - Aaron the Librarian from Android
Thanks! Those of you I haven't hit up already, I'll DM. - LB needs a break.
Aaron, you aren't subbed to me, so I can't DM you. :( - LB needs a break.
I'm in upstate NY. - Elizabeth Brown
Just DMd you, Elizabeth. :) - LB needs a break.
I'm in NYC. - Meg VMeg
I'm in NYC, too. - Stephen Francoeur
I'll hit y'all up when I'm on my computer instead of my phone. Thanks! - LB needs a break. from YouFeed
Yep, I'm in Maryland 'sup? - Christina Pikas
Yeah, I'm in NJ. Sorry for the slow (=non) response to your DM. - Andy
Jumping in late, but I used to be much better connected to the archives world in the DC area -- which is archives-rich. Wish I could have helped. - Julian
Oops! Forgot to follow up! Hang on. - LB needs a break.
WNY here. - Blake
Metro DC area. - bibliotecaria
Katy S
OH: "We didn't do full cataloging on our graphic novels. We just did quick records and left out fields. We never thought they'd catch on and we didn't want to waste time on them. Who knew they'd have all of these series and that people would actually read them."
*facepalm* - LB needs a break.
This was followed by: "I don't consider this reading. This is what is wrong with kids today." - Katy S
If it's worth buying, it's worth cataloguing - DJF from Android
So, what is reading? - Andy
Andy - The person who said this is a big fan of Christian Romance, so I guess that would qualify. :) - Katy S
Does she read Amish romance (aka 'butter churners')? - Andy
Andy - She might. I know the library carries them. To be honest, I've never seen such a large collection of Christian fiction (when compared, proportionally, to other genres) in a small library as I've seen in this one. The Christian fiction section is at least double and maybe 3 times the size of fantasy and science fiction combined. - Katy S
("Butter churners" killed me.) Katy, do the circ stats justify those proportions at your library? Just curious. - LB needs a break.
LB - I have no idea. I'm just doing a short term/contract project here related to a grant and I overhear these things. I know that they don't get a lot of circulation in s/f, but part of that is b/c until a couple years ago, they had next to nothing in that area outside of ya/kids titles. Readers interested in those areas would have figured out pretty quickly that the library wasn't the place to go for books they want. - Katy S
Ah, gotcha. :) - LB needs a break.
Obviously, there's a bias against the graphic novels. The teen library orders them and they all reside in the teen section. They are enormously popular, but, from what I understand, if it weren't for a few staff members in that department, they wouldn't have ever been ordered. - Katy S
I found that comment stunning -- and not in a good way. (And as a cataloger, I do know that cataloging graphic novels and comic books can get really complex.) - bibliotecaria
at a school where english is not the primary language, the graphic novels are very popular - i spent some time looking in oclc at them & it is a mess, so it is not just a single library/institution - bob
In terms of the actual cataloging, what I found most shocking was that they were leaving out the 490 field (among others) so they didn't have a good way to make the series name an access point. It seems to me that the series statement would be very important when cataloging graphic novels, so the fact that it was left out was just mind-boggling. - Katy S
Absolutely. Series are extremely important in novels of any type, but especially so in the graphic-type books. (I'm including comic books in that category, not just graphic novels.) - bibliotecaria
walt crawford
Between yesterday and today, I have viewed the home pages of every California public library/district (based on CA lib stats). Fewer awful ones than I remember from years ago. Too many "just a dept. of the city" pages. (Early work toward next book. Next week: New Jersey public libraries--a lot more districts than CA.)
If you're wondering: "Next book" after the one that's currently being edited--that is, the one that's due March 2012, after The Librarian's Guide to Micropublishing is published. - walt crawford
That sounds exhausting. - bibliotecaria
It wasn't all that bad, actually--there are only 181 libraries/districts in CA, and there's certainly diversity. And it's certainly an interesting project... - walt crawford
It does sound interesting, as it's the kind of methodical project that I find myself drawn to. - Stephen Francoeur
It is also, as sad experience shows, the kind of methodical project that only makes sense when you have (a) work support, (b) sponsorship in advance or (c) a book contract--with advance--for something that combines the methodical with the anecdotal. Otherwise, well, my sad experience with liblog and library blog studies speaks for itself. - walt crawford
Rachel Walden
Lots of people seem to understand that one reason Netflix needs to charge more is that the studios are going to hike prices on the content, and they need more money to provide a variety of content or even to continue providing the same content. Thinking about parallels to licensing of journals, etc. in libraries and explaining that to people.
Like--except that Netflix isn't charging more; it's charging differently. I'm going to save money. Anybody who doesn't give a damn about DVDs is going to save money. - walt crawford
Walt, for you and the way you use it, they're not (which I think was discussed in another thread). For people like me who had streaming plus 1 DVD out, the price is going up something like 60% with no additional value to me. This is not really meant to be an argument about what Netflix is doing, though - rather, I've seen numerous comments where people are aware that Netflix is about to renegotiate its streaming licenses with the content owners, and what they are charged is about to go up substantially. - Rachel Walden
Those people may not give a damn about DVDs, but they get that the cost of the content is going up. - Rachel Walden
Yep--and, specifically, the cost is absolutely going to relate to how many streaming subscribers there are. As I noted in my blog post about the situation. This is rational pricing, or unbundling if you prefer. - walt crawford
What I'm wondering is when they were going to announce it to their subscribers. I only just heard about it here. There was no netflix email to inform me of this -- although admittedly they still have time. - bibliotecaria
Notification emails seem to be slowly trickling out. Mine showed up about 6:30 p.m. yesterday, which I found disappointing after hearing about it all day through other venues. It can provide an interesting opportunity for us to provide cost/price raising/access issues with other electronic resources in a way that many of our patrons/faculty/students/users will find familiar and have direct experience with. - Hedgehog
That's what I'm thinking, Abigail. - Rachel Walden
I agree that Netflix should have notified all their customers before the news blew up--my email finally arrived this morning. I'm somebody who does care about DVDs, partly because I want to be able to watch offline and partly because newer and more desirable content is only available that way. My 3-discs/unlimited streaming plan will be $23.99 after the rate hike, compared to the current price of $19.99. This is still affordable to me, but I don't also subscribe to cable television. - kaijsa
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