Mavericks of Troy, NV!

You know that will never happen. At least Blair here kept his religious conversion to after he left office! - Rachel Clarke

Rachel: I wouldn't be so sure. At some point they will see the errors of their ways. Focusing on abortion while the economy burns like Palin did today in front of her audiences? Please do be serious. - Robert Scoble

My Guess is that the Palin Party will separate from the Repubs when/if this campaign hugely goes down in flames. - Bored

Bored: that would be awesome because the religious wackos would never win without another group like the fiscal conservatives (who should never have joined up with them in the first place, it turns out. Bush proved that). - Robert Scoble

Um... it would be interesting to know if taxpayers pick up airplane fees and per diem fees etc. for other politicians to speak at other events, maybe not religious events? Ex. Jimmy Carter, Democrat + Baptist? or the Clintons? or the Bushes? college commencement addresses? charities? red cross? etc? - Justin Long

@Justin - all modern presidential campaigns do this. This is the anti-theist movement on FF using any excuse to beat up Christianity. That Palin is involved is a bonus. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins

Mark: you're sort of right. I'm not beating up all of Christianity, though. Not all Christians believe what Palin does. Not all Christians use their religion as a litmus test for who they'll vote for. Not all Christians believe it's more important today to talk about abortion than the economy. Not all Christians believe McCain would make a better President than Obama. So, clearly, I'm not beating up Christianity here. I'm beating up religious wackos who control the Republican Party. - Robert Scoble

+1 Robert - Jeff P. Henderson

See the update at bottom. This isn't a religion issue so much as a travel expenses issue, since she charged taxpayers more to travel to her own home. - Bruce Lewis

Maybe you didn't read the article, Mark, this is something Palin did as Governor. When a _Presidential_ candidate like Obama spends money to speak somewhere, he's spending campaign money, that is, from supporters. However, what this article, and her other statements and positions, do is further delineate that she doesn't think much of the establishment clause of The First Amendment. Nor do many in her wing of the party. Which means, in my mind, she's a fundamentalist, not a conservative. - Rick Powell

I think many of those people might be happier in some Christian version of Islamist theocracies, complete with rabble-rousing, kill the heretic rallies such as we've been seeing from their campaign. That seems to be their goal. Which is why, if for nothing else, they must be defeated. - Rick Powell

What I meant was, it would be interesting to know if people in office (not in election campaigns) spend public money to speak at events - religious or otherwise - e.g. some of those I listed. I do believe it's okay to use your religion as a litmus test; i think a voter can use any qualification he or she desires. On the other hand, I think that someone in office should NOT use religion as a litmus test for their decisions, generally speaking. - Justin Long

And I for one do think the economy is more important than abortion simply because the economy is more likely to see some progress. We have had plenty of Republicans in office who have done nothing about abortion, largely because it's politically impossible at the moment. Although generally I wouldn't vote for a pro-choice candidate. What a difficult line to walk, between what is *possible* and what one *feels is important*. Sometimes we just get angry. I think a lot of Americans on both sides are angry... - Justin Long

Christians should try and remember the passage "Be angry and sin not" - or "he who says to 'You fool' is in danger of hell fire" - etc. I'm off my soap box now. - Justin Long

Yawn. Do 0bama supporters have anything else to do besides be obsessed with Palin? - Spencer Scott

Obama secured $100,000 in federal pork for Rev. Pfleger's church in Chicago. Where's the outrage? The title of the article implies taxpayers sent money to the church whereas they just payed for travel which is what taxpayers usually do for governors, mayors, and presidents. Here is source: http://www.suntimes.com/news/p... - Edmundo

and recession - adolfo foronda

+1 to Edmundo for using the phrase "Where's the outrage" - MikeAmundsen

Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins just tried to claim that disagreements with Sarah Palin's brand of religious extremism are attacks on Christianity, religion and theism as a whole. See what I mean about the generally low level of intelligence among Sarah Palin supporters? Barack Obama himself is a Christian, religionist and theist, as are most Sarah Palin opponents. What causes this kind of mental meltdown? - Sean McBride

We non-believers shouldn't forget Obama supports faith-based initiatives being supported with tax dollars. - Jack Carlson

Either religious extremists will be expelled and expunged from the Republican Party, and perhaps it will recover its health, or the extremists will be permitted to take over the party entirely and drive it into irrelevance and extinction. My personal assessment is that the Republican Party is beyond saving at this point -- neoconservatives and religious fundamentalists have damaged it beyond repair. - Sean McBride

speaking of "anti-theist movement", I just watched Religulous last night. it just floors me to see elected officials be so anti-intellectual and too much faith based. and I thought that leaders in developing nations are lightyears behind when it comes to psychosocial development. - ~C4Chaos

Is this actually against illegal or is it just being stated that way? - Jeff Layton

+1 to Jack Carlson. Obama is *very* religious and we could see several initiatives that bring attempt to bring churches into gov't activities. - MikeAmundsen

Welcome to FriendFeed Edmundo, that was an interesting first comment. What you failed to point out was that the $100,000 in "federal pork" that went to "Rev. Pfleger's church in Chicago" actually went to the COMMUNITY YOUTH CENTER *attached* to the church. You know, the place where kids can play basketball after school, get homework help, learn karate or golf, get help finding a summer job, prepare for college, or use the computer lab if they don't have a computer at home. - Karim

But God forbid poor black kids should learn how to play golf, eh? Because then where would you be? lol EDIT: they also have some kind of nutritional snack program. So it's possible some of that $100,000 is literally "federal pork." - Karim

Jeff, good question. If you drill down to the Yahoo! News article (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...) it says "Experts say those trips fall into an ethically gray area, since Democrats and Republicans alike often visit religious venues for personal and official reasons." - Karim

How can any apartment cost £4 million in these times? - Michael W. May

if you're making several million per movie, even if your worth goes down 20% you're still living well - clarke thomas via twhirl

I'm just wondering how any real estate keeps that kind of value ;) - Michael W. May via twhirl

certain locations don't drop by much; and if you REALLY want something; you pay top dollar - clarke thomas

Much of Manhattan real estate hasn't moved much. ~100k drops in price. - Marko Bon

My understanding of that neighborhood is that it's quite the rich hangout. But the REAL reason I "liked" this had nothing to do with the article. ;) - Mavericks of Troy, NV! via fftogo

Browning is always festive this time of year.... - Clen Gampbell

That Glen: he wants a German Karabiner 98 Kurz BCD4. Hmmm. - Robert Scoble

Unfortunately, he's sooo correct, but that stinks doesn't it?! (You can't handle the Truth!) ... awesome scene - Susan Beebe

Susan: nothing worse than 14-year-old who speaks the truth. - Robert Scoble

Would you consider Patrick's asking for Christmas and Birthday money early a run on the bank? - Michael Hussein Markman

A rifle? I predict a scene like in A Christmas Story. - Rochelle

no marketer has that maturity of understanding ... except to take advantage of it for personal benefit ... patrick has a higher calling, to prepare people for truth, to mature the social processes ... that career category has a name we don't know yet, but he will know .... please do not encourage marketing ... let him go into human transformation - Gregory Lent

My kid runs runs rings around me. Every time I see her, I realize it more. Yours sounds brilliant! - Charlie Anzman

I once asked a Sunday school teacher why she does it. Her answer "They're the only honest people left in the world" .... - Charlie Anzman

Wow...smart kid - Rah™

Appealing to the lowest in humans is more a disease than a talent. - todd

No pressure on Patrick, of course ;) - MiniMage LightBlueRanger

Knowledge of how people can me manipulated can also be used for good. - Rah™

Rah, that is the way of the dark side. It will consume and use you as you think you are using it. - todd

Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Therefore, having knowledge of anything gives you power, which can end up corrupting you. The secret ingredient, I think, is fear. As long as you can control that, you can balance along the edge of the darkside instead of getting swallowed by it. - Rah™

Famous Jack Nicholson Line comes to mind " You Cant Handle The Truth " - johnpiercy

The force that controls fear is the light side. The force that feeds fear is the dark side. - todd

My take would be: People don't like the truth when that parcel of truthiness might mean A) Accepting it entails pressure to change a comfortable habit, B) The Risk/Reward of embracing it is not clear cut or C) You'd rather be happy than right. I could go on, but then my hope for entertainment value would completely evaporate. Anyway, this may be interesting: http://www.philosophytalk.org/... - Micah Wittman

Micah, the On Bullshit guy is always interesting. - todd

excellent - Jeremiah Owyang

one smart son you have, Robert! - Hayk

I don't think it makes it okay. People should be able to face life, be mature, responsible, etc..... but your son IS very smart. Make him be a politician instead. - Patricia

the truth is hate to those who hate the truth. - Jens Christian Freund

It takes a lot of effort to acknowledge and deal with the truth if the truth is not pleasant. Most people don't want to make that effort if it is at all uncomfortable for them. Entertainment is usually pleasurable and when it is an alternative to an uncomfortable truth people prefer it. Patrick has great observational skills. :) - Lindsay Donaghe

Nice one, Patrick! Marketing is an excellent career, I just wish there were more marketers that faced the truth rather than trying to spin things. - Sally Church

I think Americans are experts at denial. From slavery to the cold war, Vietnam to Iraq, we've got a lot of truth we'd rather not think about. There's a shiny Jetsons future from the 50s that we'd rather believe, and anything you can say that suggests an alternate path is called for is insulting to it. "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all". While everyone's giving "advice" to Patrick mine would be: stick with the truth, to heck with marketing. - Jason Wehmhoener

roffffles - Brandon

LOL! OMG - Rah™

holy omg - Pete Delucchi

would this make Obama proud or disturbed? - Pete Delucchi

lulz - Monique(boring)

why? no. how...no, why did you look these up? ROFLMFAO - Faboo Mama

oh and is that ramen jello? disgrossting! - Faboo Mama

Heh. - Ayşe E.

ok now, that got to be some very dense jello... - turn.self.off

dense jello = dense candidate? - Cee Bee

hahahaha awesome! It is possible! - Chris Johnson

Give it a few hours, then take the pics again - Josh Haley

HA! awesomesauce! - Not Not Geoff Schultz

hehe - Marco (aureliusmaximus)

Congratulations, Cee Bee. You win the internet. - Steven "Snake" Perez

yes!!!11oneunodos - Cee Bee

No link? - Eric

where's an Obama mold when you need one? PS the ramen-jello is gnarly. - Marko Bon

whaaaa? - Sarah Perez

OMG--what a beautiful day it is when a candidate uses this analogy the night before and I get to actually see someone doing it the next day on the internet. Thank you! - Kelly W.

Hilarious!!!!!!!!! - Abby Martin

I stared at this for a few seconds, and then rofl'd. - possible248

I'm rubber and you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you. In other words, right back atcha. ;-) - .·*♥pea♥*·.

Awww - Tad - the Meme Maker

Hey, Rah, all I can say is thanks for not ping.fming this one. :) Makes us FF'ers feel kind of special-like. - Pete Delucchi

LOL! This is definitely an FF exclusive ;) - Rah™

Also, I don't know how *obligatory* it is, but the post is awesome, so, thanks for making it! You're awesome! - Pete Delucchi

I have no idea why I threw "obligatory" on the front of this...LOL. Sounded right at the time. - Rah™

You betcha, dude - Clen Gampbell

even me? - Lindsay Donaghe

Much love. - ::Kristen::

Ditto - David Cook

Suck up. No I will not loan you money. - Bored

@Bored: Who are you? - Mona N.

Mona, I said the same thing a few minutes ago, and totally agree with you, who are you Bored? http://friendfeed.com/e/961c64... - Pete Delucchi

I was subscribed to him and (s)he wasn't subscribed to me. I really wonder who s(he) is!! - Mona N.

christopher welle right? am i close? - .·*♥pea♥*·.

God, my memory is toasted right now, Patricia, I think you nailed it. - Pete Delucchi

I kind of feel bad for ruining his fun, if I am right but people seemed to be getting frustrated so i figured i'd offer a guess. :/ :D - .·*♥pea♥*·.

Yep - Rodfather

I'm going to blame my lack of sobriety or your superior intellect on figuring this one out. Either way, you're awesome, Patricia! :) - Pete Delucchi

Sheeny Buns <3 - Monique(boring)

Rahsheen is still awesome. :) - Abby Martin

Why should we give more power to somone who abuses the powert hey currently have? Sounds like a sure sign of further abuse. - Douglas E. Welch via twhirl

What got me was how much dancing around she (& her lawyers) have done to obfuscate this, where it turns out to be a very simple matter, from Moneghan's and the panel's perspective. Also- interesting insight into Todd's abuse of her power. - anna awesomesauce

yeah, well, if you read the report, it had FOUR findings. The *second* one was that she was legally within her rights to fire Monegan for any cause. The *first* finding was that she violated state ethics law. Palin's lawyers are spinning the results on the first finding by saying that Palin didn't benefit financially, so there was no ethics violation. But clearly, according to that law, you don't *have* to benefit financially in order to be unethical. - Karim

The report makes it clear she used her power to settle a cheap family feud, a personal vendetta. No money changed hands, but it was still *wrong.* Do we want this kind of person to hold the 2nd-highest office in the land? - Karim

+1 anna -- the stuff about Todd Palin showing up at cabinet meetings, when he isn't a state employee, when these meetings discuss confidential state matters and are closed to the public -- should be setting off alarm bells in people. - Karim

with all due respect Chris, it's about reality - not how any media (new or old) tries to spin it. - Chuck Boyce via twhirl

+1 Robert, +1001 - Kirill Bolgarov

Am I reading the same link that you guys are? What I read wasn't about spin or blowing smoke. What I read was a call to take responsibility as leaders - to get people to quit looking at the problem and start looking for a solution. That doesn't deny in any way deny that there is a real problem, it merely focuses the energy on efforts that will move us through this next phase of pain faster. Of course it's 1:20 AM and I've had 3 beers after a 14 hour workday, so I reserve the right to be wrong. - Bill Sanders

Bill: the point that I was trying to make is that we're still calling in fire alarms and aren't yet able to call for much deeper help. - Robert Scoble

And a lot of the media and portions of the business sector seem content to jam the 911 lines with false alarms, to extend the metaphor, Robert. It's up to us in the New Media to be realistic, not morbidly sensational or absurdly optimistic. - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins

I agree with Bill (and Christopher Penn). Robert's right: there are still fire alarms yet to go off. But I can already read that on the home page of CNN, The Wall Street Journal, Google News, and a thousand other web sites. OTOH, there are a few that truly add insight, perspective and/or depth to the headlines. I think it does more good to "lead the way" than just parrot headlines. If I'm out of work, I'd rather learn how to improve my resume than hear about how many people are out of work. - Will King

I read the same thing as Bill and appreciate Chris's point: "Despair dies in the face of confident leadership" that's exactly what's missing in the White and Congress right now - they seem to be inspiring more despair rather than stepping up to the plate and leading coherently from the front. - Sally Church

Robert: Thanks for clarifying. I read it as a call to personal responsibility. I agree that the deeper help and rebuilding will come after the clean up. However long that takes. - Bill Sanders

The problem with all media right now is that reporters aren't experienced enough to be talking about what's going on. 100% of those on TV are hired by their looks/performance and not necessarily by their knowledge and experience in a certain area. That we have nearly no one that can logically explain what is going should say it all. If you can't talk about what it truly means to the bottom line in our world, you shouldn't be talking about it. I agree it's time for everybody to wake up, whatever else it takes. We got ourselves into this. If we do the right things we can get out. And in the future, we need to hold everybody - including ourselves - at a higher standard. - Patricia

Know one way not to despair? I didn't have a dime in the stock market. Too poor. Someone joked the other day, "I invest heavily in commodities, like food, and gas." But what I'm doing, and how I'm going to approach this is I'm going to find ways to equip people. I'm going to push even deeper into educating on the business applications of the tools, including when people's jobs go belly up. - Chris Brogan

I'm not one that gets taken in by false prophets or sensationalistic journalism. Yes, this crisis is bad and there will be "casualties" - but crying about it isn't going to help the situation. The politicians are doing enough of this for us all. What I saw from Chris's post was exactly what we should always be doing - believing in ourselves and helping others where we can. I fail to see how that was "blowing smoke". - Danny Brown

I don't think what Chris is saying is all that complicated: he's just trying to get people to realize that despair is a choice, not a fate. Regardless of how dark things get socioeconomically in the coming months/years, we're all going to have to choose our perspective. How you see things precedes how you do them. People with desperate eyes do desperate things. - phil baumann

Chris: you'll find me doing the same as you. Helping people rebuild after a storm comes through is definitely a good role for all of us. But the storm still hasn't hit Silicon Valley yet with its full strength. That will come over the next two quarters. For me my role is to tell you how bad I see the storm being. It's not to pull back from the truth. And that's not "crying." Any more than a weatherman telling you to freaking get out of town before a storm moves in is "crying." - Robert Scoble

It is damn hard to lead when you haven't been realistic about where the heck you are to begin with. The idea that social media can "lead" the way out of re-set of the entire financial system is laughable. This should change some of the fundamentals of how our economy works - i.e., savings rate, regulation, sound long term priorities (not making the number quarter over quarter). It isn't doom and gloom to critically assess where we are, what is coming. Leadership is what we do once we've done that. - Brian roy

Robert- oh I know. You're definitely on the optimistic (yet reasonably realistic) side. I mean, you've got other genetics mixed in there with that Valley living. Your post where you mentioned your brother's bar actually caught my eye. Finding those indicators like that and thinking about the downstreams of all this might be where others find an opportunity. Damn, it's a blog post I didn't want to write yet. Well, guess I have Monday ready. : ) - Chris Brogan

Brian: I don't see "social media" leading us out of anything, so there we agree. But I do hear the call to leverage all our channels of influence (including our social media tools) to help lead our way out of this mess. Obviously there will be differences in opinion on what to do and how to do it. And its a fine line to walk. Witness Robert calling it like he sees it and the angst it seems to have caused... - Bill Sanders

I think the most important thing here is to engage in this discussion with the assumption of goodwill and do our best to understand the other person's POV. Afterall, we are (mostly) after the same things. - Bill Sanders

I'm starting a new weekday radio show about HOPE on blogtalkradio. Starting Monday, October 13th at 3:00 PM EST. All the details are over here: http://offonatangent.blogspot....... I'm tired of hearing all the negative talk. Join in. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/s... Guest call-in number: (347) 215-8647 This show will broadcast daily at 3:00, starting Monday October 13th and end on Monday November 3rd. Thanks, --Steve - Steve Garfield

Bill: amen! - Robert Scoble

At the risk of sounding pedantic, the fundamental difference between social media and mainstream media is that (wait for it)... it's social. If all we do with that gift is repost mainstream media reports about how bad it is, shame on us. If we can find a way to translate the social piece into action, that could help in practical ways. Here's one idea I have, which I acknowledge is vague in its current state. Maybe you can build on it. Here's the idea: how can social media connect out-of-work people with complimentary skills? Can we enable a useful bartering economy? (e.g. I'll fix your PC if you fix my truck?) - Tom Cunniff

+1 Tom - I'll give it some thought. - Bill Sanders

Tom: I'm holding a Twitter and FriendFeed meeting at the Half Moon Bay Ritz on Tuesday evening to do just that. Network to see where jobs are, how we can help each other as we go through this storm, etc. - Robert Scoble

That's the Indian Home Ministry for you. Take that, US! - Yuvi

painful, even in the 21st century they'll take any excuse to stick to an old colonial law. - Rahul Das

@Rahul: The government isn't alone. Ever read Rediff comments? ;) - Yuvi

what do you expect? Bigots exist everywhere. If anyone has visited the Khajurao temple, it has explicit carvings detailing homosexuality. I'd like to see anyone say its against our culture. And there are more examples too. - Rahul Das

Rediff comments! Don't get me started. It is actually a decent representation of what Indian masses are truly like. The Home Ministry is catering to THAT kind of audience right now. - Vijayendra Mohanty

There was a law here in Ireland until about 10 years ago against homosexual practises. It was never enforced for the past x(?) decades, but it had never been repealed until the mid to late '90's. - john conroy

@John - But, did you have the government actively trying to 'stop' the law from being repealed? - Yuvi

I have debated this with so many people who seem rational and logical and yet for some reason are against homosexuality being made legal. When asked why, most are caught without a reason. - Rahul Das

in fact I wrote about this very issue a few weeks ago. http://cli.gs/U8779D - Rahul Das

@Rahul: In India, most people are caught without a reason for most beliefs. "Because Everyone else does it too!" seems good enough for most people :( - Yuvi

@Yuvi: you are right. Thinking for themselves is beyond most people! - Rahul Das