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Bill Brandon › Likes
Google Chrome released for Mac - http://www.tuaw.com/2009...
winckel, Bill Brandon, Andrew Terry and 4 other people liked this
I've been running Chrome for the past 24 hours. It's been fairly stable for me, but I haven't "tried" hard to break it.
- Rex Hammock
I've heard good things about it. @ginatrapani runs Google Wave in it with no problems
- Roberto Bonini
I have an old copy of a Chromium snapshot in /Applications at the moment, and I downloaded the new Chrome release a few hours ago. I'd be interested to see how much has changed.
- Tyson Key
It seems that most of the changes, barring some new tab moving transitions, and what I believe to be a new Import Wizard, are mostly bugfixes and upgrades to various components. I wasn't expecting anything ground-breaking, although it felt pretty stable when I tried it out.
- Tyson Key
Dumb question - how do you *re-run* the passwords/bookmarks importer on this version? Under Preferences/Personal Stuff, the Import Data button is greyed out...
- Andrew Terry
Unsure, although it should be invoked automatically, if you've never installed Chrome. Coincidentally, it won't let you import data from Chromium, or detect the presence of an installation of it, despite pretty much being an identical product...
- Tyson Key
Of course, removing all Chrome-related files from $HOME/Library would "work", but that involves too much unnecessary hassle, for the end result.
- Tyson Key
Tyson - thanks for the info; I had installed an earlier version of Chrome, and you're right - the import was invoked automatically - but I dismissed the prompt.. D'oh... I'll have a play around in $HOME/Library and report back!
- Andrew Terry
No problem, Andrew.
- Tyson Key
Looks good - Chrome feels light and user friendly. i like the single box for URL / Google search. Not sure I'd use it by default - Google's ubiquitous and it can't be good for privacy to my mind
- winckel
Twitter Users Are Now Younger on Average Than Facebook's - The Steve Rubel Lifestream - http://www.steverubel.com/twitter...
Bill Brandon liked this
Ancient spiders yield 3D secrets - they look a lot like today's spiders too: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2... [BBC]
Bill Brandon liked this
If you like Polaroid pictures, you'll love this retro app: http://adjix.com/e924
Bill Brandon liked this
Do you know the oldest ( & only "official") Novena? http://happycatholic.blogspot.com/2009...
Bill Brandon liked this
Very Useful: "HOW TO: Simplify Your Social Media Routine" ( http://mashable.com/2009... ) Thx 2 @rgbroitman
Bill Brandon liked this
I want - http://fit-pc2.com/wiki...
OnuRC, Jessica, Tyler Ham and 163 other people liked this
"Introducing fit-PC2 CompuLab introduces fit-PC2 – the smallest, most power-efficient Intel Atom PC to date. fit-PC2 architecture is what sets it apart from other nettop PCs - fit-PC2 is designed around the Intel Atom Z530 1.6GHz and the ultra low power Intel US15W system controller hub, rather than the Atom N270 and 945G used in other nettop-PCs, thereby reducing power consumption by more than two thirds. US15W incorporates hardware video acceleration. This allows fit-PC2 to run Windows XP or Ubuntu Linux at just 6W and to play full HD 1080p H.264 video using less than 7W."
- Leo Laporte
from Bookmarklet
some limitations of the fit2pc: no n wifi, only 1gb ram & is soldered, reader is not sdhc, no wol, hdmi still needs sep audio line. if it could remedy those, then it would be more awesome than i originally thought it was. still cool idea. (edited to add: forums say hdmi does not support hdcp. boy, lots of surprises in what it *can't* do. almost a parody of an 'efficient' device.)
- sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq
Got error when clicked the link. Actually I thought I could show the screenshot, but ff can not add images to comments.
- Nitin Nanivadekar
Where and when can we buy this ??
- Qbat
Very nice
- Amit Morson
as sweet as a purring kitten
- Willem (@wim66) ☠
awesome. when do they start production?
- Chris Rutili
from BuddyFeed
And here I was waiting for netbooks to get better performance and instead we see the same low performance spreading from the mobile world, where it made sense, to our desks. Crud. It's nice that it's got low power requirements, but that seems to be it.
- Henrik
When do they start building the computer into the keyboard?
- Brian Sieker
I need a small, very low power consumption system with two ethernet ports to replace a home server. The fit-PC2 is so tantalizingly close; I'd have to add a USB ethernet dongle, and those are teh suck.
- DGentry
"Want" is a serious understatement. I could do some evil, evil things with that!
- ax0n
Very sexy! I can imagine having three or four of these with SSDs around my house.
- Barry Biddlecomb
from twhirl
With more HDMI ports and built-in blu-ray this would be an excellent choice for HTPC. Here's a better link to the data sheet http://www.compulab.co.il/fitpc2...
- jcunwired
For the right (low) price, even with it's flaws it could be a great little media server. And here I was wishing upon an eee-box-star.
- thepete
sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq: Thanks for those helpful pieces of info. Please consider using punctuation and capitalization in the future. I know it's not cool, but it serves a purpose (e.g. it helps knowledge transfer, the supposed reason for commenting in the first place) :P.
- coldbrew
I want this as well.
- Doug Slater
they should sell them in multipacks
- Matthew Snape
I doubt that 1080p H.264. is watchable. Need some proof. It would be a key factor for me.
- Dmitriy B
I want one of these.
- Robert Gregory Browne
The newer boards use a dual-core Atom and NVidia 9400M chipset. Even has CUDA support. I believe it could decode 1080p. http://mini-itx.com/2009...
- Rodfather
Looks great. I want also. I'll wait for Windows 7.
- Scott Kraatz
Smaller than a MacMini. I'll wait for Windows 7 too.
- Randy Caldwell
I'd love to attach this to the back of a monitor and hang it on a wall
- Camden
Brian Sieker: Asus already started stuffing the whole pc inside a (nice looking) keyboard, take a look at the Eee Keyboard http://gizmodo.com/5124985...
- Rui Pires
Amazing!
- Eren ÖĞRÜL
I wonder how well this will run Boxee.. Is it the perfect boxee box?
- raf
I'm always skeptical about the 1080P claims for nettops.
- Ryan Whitwam
FriendFeed, I still don't completely understand you, nor do you speak to me in a way Twitter does, but I have 782 subscribers here. So I'm going to try.
Brent - Loving Life, Nicholas James, Jack and 77 other people liked this
You'll come to love it, Harry.
- Leo Laporte
782 subscribers can't be wrong! :)
- Violet Mae Lim
Don't worry I don't get it either. I just feed all my social stuff into it.
- Keith Hobin
Participation is key - start speaking back and the value will come to you.
- jcunwired
Harry - if you are new to FriendFeed, think of 'likes' as retweets and comments as '@replies'. So it is quite similar to Twitter.
- Atul Arora
Hello there!
- Derrick
And if you @troynt's excellent greasemonkey script for twitter (http://userscripts.org/scripts...) , you will see that FriendFeed is not much different from Twitter.
- Atul Arora
If you're looking for FriendFeed tips, the FFundercats have a weekly podcast to keep you covered on what posts are hot on FriendFeed and new features being brought to the site. http://ffundercats.podomatic.com
- LonelyBob
You will need to learn to filter content, this room will help. Its one worth subscribing to http://friendfeed.com/ffss
- jcunwired
Yeah!
- Robert Scoble
Harry: if you spent more time here you really should have more than that. You are one of my favorite tech journalists and I have 36,000.
- Robert Scoble
Robert... Mr McCracken only has one comment... (cue southern accent)... there's your sign
- Chris Heath
Chris: exactly. You won't get it until you participate.
- Robert Scoble
Just try it out...c'mon...my name's Harry as well, and I don't know about you but I don't know many other Harry's. =)
- Harry Wolff
It took me a long time to understand FriendFeed... It's worth figuring out.
- Bob Morris (polizeros)
Harry, we should sit down some time. I'll walk you through it, and you can be taught.
- Louis Gray
For those who don't know Harry he was editor of PCWorld and does some of the best tech blogging out there.
- Robert Scoble
Harry, do people ever ask you if your name is a pseudonym? I used to wonder every once in a while when reading one of your articles.
- Chris Heath
783
- Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)
Rob, you actually made it 796... but still, yeah...
- Chris Heath
;-)
- Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)
Thanks, all--well, almost all. I cheerfully admit to enjoying playing the role of the dense person who doesn't quite get FriendFeed. But I do understand that it isn't worth anything unless you dive in and participate. Part of my problem is that I'm more of a serial social networker than a parallel one, and I'm not ready to scale back on Twitter yet. But I do promise to spend more time in here
- Harry McCracken
see, that wasn't so hard. ;-)
- Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)
Welcome to FriendFeed Harry... 797
- Mitchell Tsai
welcome to friendfeed Harry
- (jeff)isageek
Friendfeed rocks, and yes it's different to Twitter. In fact, I get tired of the direct comparisons. I use both.
- Ian May
Harry: glad to have you join us. The comments everyone has made about participation are dead on: no one will know you're here unless you start commenting/liking other people's material. Once you get engaged on other people's items, they start to care what you think and say. POOF: interaction. Oh, and it might be a good idea to fill out your profile: you'd probably have a boatload more followers if people here could tell at a glance that you were an editor of PCWorld...
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Welcome to FriendFeed!
- Barry Biddlecomb
from twhirl
Harry, I feel the same way. I think I get FriendFeed, just not sure that real-time feedback (vs momentarily delayed) is as big a deal as so many folks make it, particularly to folks without large followings. But I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt as well.
- Tom Gimpel
Watchin' and learnin'....watchin' and learnin'.
- Sharon Tappan
I'm new to both sites but am thoroughly enjoying learning from them both!
- NXT Nutritionals. inc.
Harry: you'll get there. More and more of my Twitter network is here every day and the conversations are both deeper and more useful than the ones I'm seeing happen over on Twitter. You gotta make a choice of where do you invest for the future, I understand, but I've never regretted spending more time here.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: I have found more relevant & meaningful conversation on friendfeed. It seems more social media & business ppl are here than twitter.
- NXT Nutritionals. inc.
Harry -- it's about letting your online activity stream communicate for you. Also, it's about how threaded conversations actually allow you to say something. :) Glad you're here. P.S., going to JavaOne this year?
- Steve Lynch
from twhirl
I've found its not as obvious as Twitter but I get the feeling there's all this power under friendfeed I'm not seeing yet.
- William
Harry: you should watch when I show friendfeed to Jimmy Wales, founder of Wikipedia: http://www.ustream.tv/recorde... -- that might help you discover some of the power.
- Robert Scoble
I don't get why Twitter still has not added comments and groups. I don't like going to two different sites.
- Donald Forth
Donald: Twitter's leadership is religious about keeping the service as simple as possible.
- Robert Scoble
Donald: too religious, in my view.
- Robert Scoble
I know why Harry doesn't understand Friendfeed: he doesn't participate in its own discussion :(
- Jérôme Flipo
You are not alone! I have been on FF time to time but did not figure out how it works..:confused
- Jacque
http://friendfeed.com/scoblei... Like FF, like a whole lot more if I didn't have to spend time figuring out how to filter content, then I discovered your comment (http://www.ustream.tv/recorde...)
- Julie Williams
you got one more Mr. Technologizer
- Buford Koechig
Yes yes yo. Me either. I guess it's still worthwhile to stay... just hang on.
- Jack
The more you use it,the better it gets.
- ashish
Qik and Twitter goes to Congress - http://scobleizer.com/2008...
Bill Brandon, JimmyJet, Erhan Erdogan and 20 other people liked this
http://qik.com/video/125962 here's the follow-up interview I did on Wednesday, and a link to Aaron Brazell's coverage (including some of my articles) here: http://technosailor.com/2008...
- Andrew Feinberg
Thanks Andrew and Aaron for following up on this.
- Robert Scoble
I don't intend to leave the issue alone.
- Andrew Feinberg
Really following this. QIK and Twitter are two things that give members of congress the ability to get back some of that human quality. Makes it more than just seeing them in shades of black and grey.
- Dean Clark
Please, anyone who has any information on this that hasn't been published but wants it out, feel free to contact me privately.
- Andrew Feinberg
Indian Gov does live webcast from parliament. Is the issue here in US of individual congressman's sharing of live proceedings or more about the lack of control over the conversations it will start outside among people?
- Sudha Jamthe
wow finally the tech main stream media picks this up, , this hit the web a couple days ago!
- Tanya
Of course should Twitter and Qik be allowed. Politicians that use this kind of technology should be admired. Barrack Obama seems to use all available forms of modern technology. That's my man as new president although my vote doesn't count...
- Håkan Dahlström
It's all the more impressive some are using the technology because it's your political opponents who scrutinize these materials most closely and critically. I learned that lil' fact the hard way by blogging as a local elected official. Posting material adds hugely to the time and energy demands of elected office when you give your critics more material to work from. But the overall payoff is huge: a healthier democracy.
- Walter Neary
Maybe big media is getting ticked off and crying to the politicians. After all, some folks might decide they don't need to buy a paper/magazine if it's on Twitter, and the computer is competing with tv (at least, it's owning the tv where I'm concerned).
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
MiniMage: The process for getting access to politicians in the Capitol itself is convoluted and designed as a gatekeeper. There is currently no way for freelance writers or bloggers to get accreditation. Watch my full interview with Culberson http://qik.com/video/125962 at about 6 minutes to go and see what he means.
- Andrew Feinberg
@agfhome: I'm just not getting to your interview vid. I'm sure the problem exists between my keyboard and my bed (PEBKAB), since I can't recall going to qik before.
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
from NoiseRiver
"if everybody likes you, you are probably pretty mediocre"
zeroinfluencer, Dorian |_|), Igor Poltavskiy and 59 other people liked this
If everybody likes this tweet, what does that mean?
- Hutch Carpenter
@bhc3: This means that this tweet might be true. @loic is not his tweet... --I rock in logic, I know :)
- directeur
from NoiseRiver
Amen. The trick is having people dislike you for reasons you can live with.
- BISQ
if everyone likes you, you're either biting your tongue or haven't found your passion.
- Morgan
@KathySierra corollary: Being Loved or Hated (or both) is ok (even good); but ambivalence or indifference is Death.
- dave mcclure
I'm sure plenty of people hate me -- chances are I've probably blocked them :(
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
we need a "hated this" on friendfeed
- Loic Le Meur
*BLOCK* :P
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
we need a hate this on friendfeed!
- Loic Le Meur
+1 Hutch
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
one of my favorite videos by Honda is "Hate Something" (on YouTube)
- dave mcclure
Loic, that's so sad! (Is the opposite true, if everyone hates you then you must be a maestro!)
- Dave Winer
Loic be nice or I'll block you on Seesmic! LOL
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
@davew: Your implication is not logically true :) @loic come on NoiseRiver ;-) We have better than "hate this"
- directeur
from NoiseRiver
@Aaron Dave says thanks for reminding him :P (*kidding*)
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
Boring people don't have enemies. Not all interesting people do, but boring folks never do. If you're lucky tho - your friends like you as much & as passionately as your enemies hate you.
- Lucretia Pruitt
Next time someone tries to do a block on me, I will retaliate with DOS denial attack on their server! Block per Block! lmao
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
Loic, Does this mean I have to become the only person that doesn't like you to save you from a life of mediocrity? I love seesmic so much I would do that for you.
- Cathleen Rittereiser
from NoiseRiver
I'm pretty medicre but my friends have lots of haters. What does that mean?
- Robert Scoble
I only clicked Like for the irony.
- Zach Underwood
"We are sorting ourselves out by choosing to live with people that we agree with," Bill Clinton quote from today. Is this true of FF community?
- Steven Cains
@cains: It's true of every community. The alternative: What, you're going to force me to be with people I DON'T like? Who gave you the power to choose for me? And what about freedom of association in the Constitution?
- Alexander Williams
from NoiseRiver
This brings to mind a couple versus from R.Kipling: ... If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you; If all men count with you, but none too much, If you can fill the unforgiving minute With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it...
- Franklin Naval
What's wrong with being mediocre? Doesn't mean you can't do extraordinary things.
- Jim Kukral
from twhirl
Jim: I'm extraordinarily mediocre.
- Robert Scoble
It's not possible for everybody to like anyone. If everyone else in the world likes a person, then my husband will hate him/her.
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
If you always try to get everyone to like you and never say anything that expresses your true feelings for fear that someone might be offended does that mean you hate yourself?
- Guilty Party
Part of me really agrees with the quote, but part of me also thinks it's a load of crap. I think that if there's someone everyone likes, that person is probably hiding something or not allowing themself to be fully transparent. For me, I prefer total transparency - I want to know if I'm going to like you or hate you. Any middleground just wastes time and energy.
- Sam Dodge
I agree to a point. You have to have an opinion and stick up for that, but you can't just be generally abrasive.
- Jeremy Vaught
I was thinking about this some more Loic. I think this statement is bullshit propaganda tripe spouted by people who think being a dick is "interesting". No, it's just you being a dick. Being liked is a good thing. Let's not try to claim that good people are boring as you suggest.
- Jim Kukral
Asuming you're good, I think it's easy to be disliked and come across as arogant. It's far harder to be good and liked.
- Ben Metcalfe
from twhirl
There's no such thing as "everybody." There's nothing wrong with mediocre. Being hated does not mean you are more [interestng, intelligent, creative] etc. Being liked and being mediocre are factors independent of each other.
- Roxanne Darling
from twhirl
You can be liked by many people, but it is impossible to satisfy everyone. Sometimes you will bump into people that you don't like. I would say "If everybody likes you, you are not honest"
- Erno Hannink
yes that is 100% true unless you are an antagonizer. Notice Amanda Chapel is both intelligent and has people listening to her.
- Noah David Simon
To be a real jerk in social networking brings people to you. but it makes ur life a nightmare. I would prefer mediocrity
- Noah David Simon
Everybody Loves Raymond
- Morton Fox
and then there are the Chris Brogans...
- Noah David Simon
in an optimized system (social or economic) mediocrity is healthy =) (retweeting myself here into FF, since FF doesn't pickup the twitter conversation)
- Thomas Knoll
I got my twitter account back @NoahDavidSimon and I notice by not being there I still have around 1000 followers.
- Noah David Simon
by not tweeting I got a better share of listeners... but not really. I just didn't piss them off yet
- Noah David Simon
I would rephrase it : “if you want attention from everyone, you are probably ZERO" or "if you want to be liked (loved) by everyone, you are mediocre" LOLOLOLOL
- Lora Lufark
If everybody comments you...:)
- Igor Poltavskiy
everybody hates me
- Pokai
Social Network Evolution - http://www.seanpercival.com/blog...
Gaby K. Slezák, Bryan Landers, Tony C. and 17 other people liked this
Great article!
- Phil G
thx, also noticing i have some FF echo here becuase of twitter, perhaps twitter is the one service not to feed into here
- sean percival
Interesting how if the first comment is "Great article!" that I'm far more likely to click on the link and check out what was written.
- Robert Scoble
Me too, they are like preemptive blog comments! The best of the day/week listings are very cool too. Easy to see where the swarm is talking. http://friendfeed.com/summary...
- sean percival
So we need a "tag team" to get noticed? One to publish, and another to say "Great article!" & click "like" :-)
- Mitchell Tsai
If momentum continues, you'll see lots of peeps "boosting" ff content just like what is done with digg, yahoo buzz , google etc. ;) The best organic content will still rise pretty high though.
- sean percival
Sean, don't worry about the twitter echo. If anyone is annoyed by it, they can hide that particular twitter entry, or all your twitter entries.
- Phil G
Robert -- me too! That's why I reserve it for truly good articles. ;)
- Phil G
There are so many new services. Thus, we run to each new service, play around for a bit and then quickly abandon it. FF is the exception, however. :-) Great article.
- Roger Chen
To the point in your post about owning your FriendFeed, couldn't agree more. I wish WordPress was more like FriendFeed. A widget in the sidebar or an import of FF comments just doesn't do it for me. Had no clue when reading the first list of comments on your blog what the heck Scoble was talking about until I realized he was referring to comments over here on FriendFeed.
- Dominic Jones
Constantly changing just to keep up with the pack.
- Bob Gannon
Excellent post and definitely where SM needs to go!! We need tools to help us control and manage our online identities / brands. I like the ME central concept!
- Susan Beebe
Have you already checked out http://noserub.com/ ?
- ※Fu※
@Fu (interesting username:) That is very cool, thanks for the heads up
- sean percival
you're welcome. I hope it is what you were looking for. You may also be interested in this article here: http://lifestreamblog.com/examini...
- ※Fu※
I found this via FF but lost the page it came from, I did want to "like" it but for the 1st time i seen a plugin with comments and likes, and instantly could like it from the site it originated from...which brings me to... how long before we have this on every type of blog platform, and also on media or any other sites sort of like "X amount of digg's" I'd love to add this to a few pages, other then wordpress, nice article too.
- Tony C.
There is a wonderful intersection between mobile devices and social networks that has not really be properly exploited
Benedikt Koehler, rob zand, John Sirman and 11 other people liked this
Yes, LBS without having to enter my location manually :)
- Sean Alexander
yes, i agree. first one to figure this out correctly is going to win big. much larger opportunity than twitter via sms or Facebook on the iPhone
- Michael Gartenberg
I agree. This may evolve in places like India & Africa where people have access to mobile, but not PCs. Or so ISTM.
- shelisrael1
it will once more people have better mobile devices.
- Tyler Gillies
from NoiseRiver
I wonder what Michael thinks of BluePulse?
- Robert Scoble
just blogged about (something like) this: http://www.ianschafer.com/2008...
- Ian Schafer
This is what I like about twitter - how good it is in SMS.
- Soulhuntre
from twhirl
It has the potential to be bigger then Web based social networks. I wrote my thoughts on it here, including some monetization strategies.
- Ross Maguire
What interests me is how often the market leader technology is ignored to court the "wow" factor of the A-listers. The iphone is, statistically, a trivial part of the market yet companies liek Qik will pander to it long before building a Windows Mobile version - to get the Techcrunch link.
- Soulhuntre
from twhirl
Blue Pulse is cool but i want more than that... i've already invested in too many social network, anything new must play with all of them
- Michael Gartenberg
Look at the adoption rates Gennefer.. it's already happening. many so called smartphones are free or little cost. Even the mighty 3G iPhone is down to $99
- Michael Gartenberg
It will be interesting to see where the innovation comes from. The web 2.0 crowd is just starting to think about the mobile space. The mobile folks have suffered under the domination of carriers, awful devices & OS's, and related afflictions that they are just getting over the demoralization of the past decade or more. I think it takes a while to start to "get" the new possibilities in mobile. In many ways it is the opposite of the PC based Internet, and simple location enabling is not enough in my view.
- Dean Terry
The space will really only open up after next February when the 700MHz spectrum opens up for next-gen mobile devices. Wait.
- Andrew Feinberg
Gennefer, i'll bite.. Name some names? what phones don't cut it? why? and what's a smartphone for that matter :)
- Michael Gartenberg
Just looking at it, but BluePulse doesn't seem to know where you are. And you shouldn't have to tell it. Just to start, mobile social apps should know where you are, where you've been, what / who is around you, and then eventually begin creating & filtering persistent place & people based data.
- Dean Terry
not sure i'd call the latter two phones smartphones, it's way i stopped using the term in research... meets a tech definition but not a logical.. i'd argue that most WinMo devices and the iPhone are as powerful as the n95
- Michael Gartenberg
You know how in some films the place is a central character itself? That's what it's like in mobile. Whereas the Internet is an abstract non-place where we're supposed to forget where we are, place matters in the mobile experience. In my view this will be a big part of the "unexploited intersection" that Michael hints at.
- Dean Terry
See JSR-179 -- http://jcp.org/jsr... -- for an API for Java for location-based services. It doesn't even require GPS capability -- http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/forum... -- enjoy and share your creations!
- Prolific Programmer
Brightkite seems promising, but virtual interaction, games & searches on mobiles are still too cumbersome
- Roger Penguino
twitter would be much more interesting if the "via" was not a device/user agent but instead a set of geo-coordinates for an interface like brightkite. brightkite needs to be geo-aware to be viable long term. these 2 services seem to be where the communities are now but they are largely redundant. twitter's poor service has hurt them in expanding the metadata associated with a tweet. brightkite is adding twitter like functionality of late, we'll see who wins or whether another player emerges, like loopt
- rob zand
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