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Bill Hooker › Comments

Bill Hooker
Screwing over a junior colleague to make your point about Impact Factor is stupid | DrugMonkey - http://scientopia.org/blogs...
Tags: lostart - Bill Hooker
Jenica
Our feedback board re: our 24/5 finals week hours is asking for suggestions. There are a handful of requests for kittens, and one for "rock salt and wrought iron for the demons", and then one for "cups for the free water dispenser." So we put out cups. The next day "Bigger cups, please."
I would love to know what happens if you put out rock salt and wrought iron. - RepoRat
I use these boards to keep me grounded. On the one hand, knowing what students really think REALLY MATTERS as i make decisions. And staying in their goofy-ass loop is awesome. But on the other hand, I have to remember we'll absolutely 100% never ever ever ever please them all fully. Ever. - Jenica
RR, it's damned tempting. :) - Jenica
doooooo eeeeeeeeet! - Catherine Pellegrino
Yes, put out a basket labeled "as requested" with rock salt, wrought iron, and pictures of kittens. - lris
I asked the undergrad library here if they kept all the suggestion cards and responses on their (lively, EPIC WIN) suggestion board. Turns out they do. I told them they HAD to do a chapbook of these; it'd be a WIZARD fundraising tool. Sigh. They didn't listen. - RepoRat
...days like this are why I love working in libraries. Best after lunch cheer ever. - MontglaneChess
Totally need to put salt around some windows and doors and post pictures. - Rachel Walden
Oh, and if you do the salt/iron, you should also put out a small box with a hinged lid and label it a "crossroads box." - Rachel Walden
Isn't it supposed to be "cold iron"? I'm not up on my demonology... I guess that's an oversight that could really come back to bite me, huh? - Bill Hooker
Rachel Walden
Is it weird to still use the old business letter format with the mailing address of the sender and recipient? I mean, I'm not physically mailing it anywhere, but it looks wrong without it somehow. (for a cover letter)
I always do even though it is a little weird. - laura x
what laura x said. I make my students do it on cover letters, too. - RepoRat
Yep. What Laura said. - Catherine Pellegrino
If you don't use a formal layout of some kind, it devolves into casual email. So, since a standard layout is needed, the one we're all used to makes sense. <-- my $0.02 - Bill Hooker
I do it for thing like cover letter and recommendations. - kaijsa
Way I figure it (and this is what I tell my students), a little extra unnecessary formality never did nobody no harm; that's why you dress one level up from your prospective employers for an interview. Whereas if you omit the formality and end up in front of a stickler for etiquette, you're screwed. - RepoRat
Thanks, all. - Rachel Walden
Bill Hooker
PeerJ now a Full Member of COPE - PeerJ Blog - http://blog.peerj.com/post...
Tags: lostart - Bill Hooker
Bill Hooker
Fortnightly Mailing: Why Open Access matters - an illuminating discussion between Peter Suber and David Weinberger - http://fm.schmoller.net/2012...
Tags: oa petersuber davidweinberger - Bill Hooker
Bill Hooker
Tags: management resources reference - Bill Hooker
barbara fister
So I just learned that Proquest dumped hundreds of thousands of dissertations into Turnitin. I think this is evil. I also learned, poking around, that many ETDs have a "run it through Turnitin" step. I don't think libraries should be supporting a private corporation that relies on a dubious fair use claim to build their empire of badness.
Sorry, just had to vent. Curious if any of you feel differently. - barbara fister
WHAT? This is just ridiculous on so many levels. - Lisa Hinchliffe
hmmm. so, publishing your dissertation with PQ now means you give up your copyright too? doesn't Turnitin take rights over everything that it puts in its maw? - RudĩϐЯaЯïan from YouFeed
I agree. It sucks. - Marianne
It's not the fair use claim that bothers me about Turnitin. After all, if you think Google books is fair use, then you can't complain about the transformative use of Turnitin. My complaint has always been the fact that my school requires students to enhance their business model in order to pass a course. - DJF from Android
I wonder whether students who check the PQ option to not allow 3rd party indexing get opted out of this as well.... - Sarah from FreshFeed
...I wonder if mine's in there? how would I check, if my campus doesn't have Turnitin? - Catherine Pellegrino
I've been complaining about their business practices for years. Looks like I started complaining on my blog in _2006_ (!!!). http://jasongriffey.net/wp... - Jason Griffey from iPhone
(note also that students in classes that use Turnitin are required to accept the company's terms of use, which grant that company a license to use the material submitted, so they don't actually depend on the fair use defense. See also my complaints about facilitating commerce while doing my homework.) - DJF
In court they have relied on fair use (and if that flies, it should totally be okay for HathiTrust too, Google Books and any other way people want to mine copyrighted texts) but in this case it doesn't seem anyone gave them permission except ProQuest. Maybe the third party checkoff thing is how they are getting around it. It's still outrageous, imo. While poking around, though, I was amazed at how many universities say they won't accept a dissertation until hit has been run through Turnitin. - barbara fister
Barbara, you're right, I slightly misstated. They have used fair use as their defense in court, but they don't HAVE to, which is what I should have said. The fair use part is probably related to their harvesting of web content more than their use of student-submitted assignments. - DJF from Android
I bet it is the third party checkoff - I don't think they could do that otherwise. - Sarah
Ah, I haven't read the decision carefully. Given other lawsuits, it seemed a really weird invocation of fair use (so long as you use it for something, SURE, GO RIGHT AHEAD! But libraries? whoa, have to think about that...) I wonder how long that third party link has been an option (or default or whatever it is...) - barbara fister
BTW, here's a press release.This happened over a year ago. How many people know about it? http://pages.turnitin.com/rs... - barbara fister
I know it's been added within the past five years or so, because our Graduate College had a fit when they realized some of the dissertations were being sold on Amazon without the students knowing it. PQ provided a new agreement with a yes or no option at that point. - Sarah
because making it easy to find the dissertations that ProQuest has been selling for decades anyway is just evil? - DJF from Android
Because the grad students didn't know that they were doing that. Finding your dissertation on amazon without knowing it would be there was shocking for many. They get the PQ selling it, but expected it to just stay there. - Sarah
Had a similar experience to Sarah, only in my case it was library brass who got the Fatal Email from a pissed-off graduate, and they assumed it was somehow my fault -- either I had set this up somehow, or I'd told ProQuest it was okay. - RepoRat
I'm very lucky in that our Graduate College is very sane. - Sarah
Holy shit. - Meg VMeg
Given my generally anti-copyright stance, I think I'm totally fine with this? - Steele Lawman
But given that dissertations aren't published in the same way that published books and articles are, I think I might have a problem with this? Clearly I'm conflicted. - Steele Lawman
It's a puzzle. I was a tad annoyed when I found Goodreads was importing my personal blog onto their site, but then thought "well, it does have a cc license." I can see why people who didn't realize Proquest could sell it on any platform including ones they use daily were taken aback. - barbara fister
I'm not sure why dissertations aren't public domain in the first place. - Bill Hooker
(Turning up in Turnitin would annoy me though.) - barbara fister
US attitudes are very market-oriented. This post at IHE today on Swedish approaches to dissertations was interesting .... http://www.insidehighered.com/blogs... - barbara fister
That is quite interesting - thanks for posting! - Sarah
Stupid question, how does ProQuest having the right to do whatever they want with dissertations lead to Amazon? I've seen questions about students confused to see it there. - aaron
If they can do whatever they want then that includes selling it on Amazon (rather than just through their own platform) where it'll get a wider distribution but authors weren't expecting to see it there. - Deborah Fitchett
Amazon is not publishing the books. ProQuest is listing them on Amazon, which it's allowed to do since the students generally given ProQuest a license to distribute them. - DJF
I'd still like to see Barbara's original source for where she got this information (unless it's a private communication, etc.) -- not that I don't believe her, but I'd like to see the context, etc. -- and I'm still curious how dissertation authors can determine if their work is contained within Turnitin or not -- or are we to understand that ALL PQ dissertations are included? - Catherine Pellegrino
Sorry, missed this question way back when - I believe it came up on WPA-L but is also in this news release http://turnitin.com/en_us... It's not clear, but it sounds as if it's everything post 2008, though maybe opt-outers are out. I don't know how authors would know if their work is there or not. - barbara fister
My bigger problem with TUrnitin is that it teaches students how to plagiarise more deviously. As an academic I have used it when my radar went off abt student work so I manually uploaded (unit outline tells students I may do this). Think the PQ uploads feed into bigger text/data mining issues & copyright which will utterly explode in next 2 years - Kathryn is a free elf from iPhone
I dunno, isn't plagiarising with sufficient deviousness indistinguishable from a literature review? Is the problem that it doesn't teach them how to plagiarise deviously *enough*? - Deborah Fitchett
Nah - most common plagiarism is throwing a thesaurus at someone else's work then passing it off as their own. - Kathryn is a free elf from iPhone
Heather Piwowar
Has anyone tried to obtain textmining access from Elsevier recently? Positive or negative experiences to share?
I think you are the only one with the stamina to even try. - Bill Hooker
Liking to bump but I suspect Bill's right... - Cameron Neylon
I would expect that Peter MR tried... - Egon Willighagen
we're trying to get the reaxys api access they promise in all their literature... seems like they shouldn't hype it if we have to tell them why we're using it and wait now > 2weeks to get started with it :( - Christina Pikas
i think they might be trying to get out of supporting academic users with their api... but it doesn't say that on their website. - Christina Pikas
Bill Hooker
Walt at Random » Blog Archive » It Didn’t Work for Phil Ochs, It Doesn’t Work for Jeffrey Beall - http://walt.lishost.org/2013...
Tags: lostart - Bill Hooker
Bill Hooker
The Big Deal and the Damage Done by Walt Crawford (Paperback) - Lulu - http://www.lulu.com/shop...
Tags: stuff want oa scholarlycommunication - Bill Hooker
Bill Hooker
Yeast de résistance :: Ethan Perlstein - http://www.perlsteinlab.com/blog...
Tags: lostart - Bill Hooker
RepoRat
Chance to get librarians on the open-science radar; let's take it. Sayeed Choudhury, Carly Strasser great choices off the top of my head. http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog... No limit to how many/how often you can nominate!
So our own Heather Piwowar is also a red-hot possibility. - RepoRat
wow, that's lovely, RR :) I think maybe I'll get a tshirt made that says "red-hot possibility" ;) I'm leaning in Aaron Swartz direction. Negatives: misses opportunity to honour someone who is still active, working in the system. Positives: white house, see this white house? FIX THIS. - Heather Piwowar
I second Heather... probably would not support Aaron Swartz' nomination... I think it's better to select someone who is active. - Christina Pikas
If someone else doesn't nominate Heather P, I will! And how did I not know about Carly Strasser until now? (Agree with Christina about Swartz -- benefit of sending message outweighed by loss of chance to boost someone active.) - Bill Hooker
even if someone else DOES nominate Heather P (which MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED ALREADY I'M NOT SAYING), do it anyway. Volume can't hurt. - RepoRat
Should we also nominate Jason P--Heather's copartner? - Hedgehog
I was thinking about him as well. - Joe
Rock on. NOMINATE ALL THE CHAMPIONS! - RepoRat
works with Carly at his internship gig ... awesomeness. - henry
Bill Hooker
Bill Hooker
Jeans and Shorts Made in USA by the All American Clothing Co - http://www.allamericanclothing.com/made-in...
Tags: clothes stuff madeinUSA - Bill Hooker
Bill Hooker
Still Made in USA.com - American-Made Mens Apparel - http://www.stillmadeinusa.com/men...
Tags: clothes stuff madeinUSA - Bill Hooker
Bill Hooker
Tags: clothes stuff madeinUSA - Bill Hooker
Bill Hooker
7 oz. Union Made in USA T-shirts - UNISEX - Lifewear union made t-shirts, sweatshirts, made with ALL USA COMPONENTS! - (Powered by CubeCart) - http://www.unionshirtsupply.com/store...
Tags: clothes stuff - Bill Hooker
holly #ravingfangirl
just under 3.5 lbs, you guys. good grief. - holly #ravingfangirl
I love rhubarb! - Son of Groucho
PIE? SAY YES TO PIE - jambina
i have learned my lesson! rhubarb is for pie! and crumbles/crisps. and sauce. - holly #ravingfangirl
And for onstage extras. - Brent Schaus from iPhone
There's something wrong with that celery... - Bill Hooker
<3 Brent - Steele Lawman
Walla Walla rhubarb! - m9m, Crone of FriendFeed
Brent. - Spidra Webster
just made a fresh rhubarb pie because of this post - Joe Hardy from Android
Bill Hooker
(data not shown) Hypocrite | Wandering Third Instar - http://scientopia.org/blogs...
Tags: lostart - Bill Hooker
Heather Piwowar
My dad died yesterday. He had terminal cancer, but his death was sudden: he had a major stroke on Saturday. I'm my father's daughter in so many ways, and I will miss him terribly.
I'm so very sorry to hear this. My thoughts are with you and your family - maʀtha
I'm sorry for your loss. - Marie
Can you take some time off work? - Joe
oh Heather, much love to you. do let us know if we can do anything - even if that is just bad knock-knock jokes to take your mind off things. - jambina
our condolences - Pete
thinking of you, here, too. take care. - Marianne
*hugs* I'm so sorry for your loss. - LB hates stale candy! from Android
I'm very sorry. *hugs* - Betsy
Condolences. And hugs - Christina Pikas from iPhone
I'm so sorry, Heather. - Katy S
I'm so sorry. As another father's daughter left without hers, my thoughts are with you. - Jenica from iPhone
I'm so sorry to hear this. I'll be thinking of you and your family. - Catherine Pellegrino
Love and light to you, Heather. - Derrick
*hugs* and thoughts with you heather - Sir Shuping is just sir
I'm really sorry to hear that. Thinking of you and your family. - Stephen Francoeur
so sorry Heather - weelibrarian
Condolences! We'll be thinking of you. - Rebecca Hedreen
I'm so sorry for your loss. - Jenny H. from Android
I'm very sorry, Heather. - RepoRat
So sorry for your loss. Got the email auto-reply and was afraid that was what had happened. Best wishes for all your family. - Cameron Neylon
So very sorry to hear this. Many hugs to you. - Hedgehog
my deepest sympathies. that's a difficult loss. - t-ra: WeirdnessSandwich
I'm so very sorry, Heather. - Micah from FFHound(roid)!
I'm sorry for your family's and the worlds loss. Take care of yourself and those around you as best as you can and let others help take care of you. - Steve C
So very sorry. Do take time for yourself. - Mary B: #TeamMonique from iPhone
very sorry to hear :( let us know if we can help with anything - Joe Hardy from Android
I'm so sorry, Heather. I echo Jenica's thoughts from another fatherless daughter. I miss mine every day, and it's been almost 20 years. *hugs* - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
My condolences, Heather. My thoughts are with you and your family. - Bill Hooker
I'm so sorry, Heather. He must have been so proud of you! Thinking of you and yours. - Meg VMeg
My condolences. It's an awful passage watching your parents die. - Heather
So sorry. Take your time with it. - Björn Brembs
I am so sorry. My thoughts are with you and yours. - Regular Amanda from Android
Very sorry for your loss! I am like you in that I am so much my father's daughter. I don't know how or what I'll do when mine passes which I know is inevitable. Take care. - Paulette
thanks so much for all of these kind thoughts. they mean more than you know. hugs to those who have been or are in a similar spot, and thank you for sharing that with me, it helps. We had a lovely service on Saturday... he would have cried the whole time :) Here's his obituary: http://bit.ly/YKEBb7 Thanks again, everybody, for caring. - Heather Piwowar
that's a lovely obituary, Heather. Thank you for sharing it. - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
Egon Willighagen
Looking for: Metabolism of Loratadine and Further Characterization of Its In Vitro Metabolites, http://www.eurekaselect.com/93528... pls mail to first dot lastname at gmail
Thanks for checking! - Egon Willighagen
Sorry, me neither. *bump* - Bill Hooker
Christina Pikas
virtual high 5 to L. Quilter who took ST down a peg on Liblicense.
Hint on ST? - Joe
(Sandy Thatcher?) - barbara fister
ding! that's the correct ST and here: http://listserv.crl.edu/wa... - Christina Pikas
Bingo. - Joe
L. Quilter has been v. awesome in my books since at least 1997. <3. - Marianne
I said something mean about Thatcher then deleted it. Instead I'll say--is he ever useful, or is he just a full-time troll? - Steele Lawman
I've known her online since 1995 or so, previous life and all that. Was just plain shocked to cross paths with her in library land! She's fantastic. (also: super thrilled to have no idea who ST is. do I need to?) - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
He said something nice about DPLA on Secret Agent Fister's latest IHE column. I was surprised. Unless it wasn't actually him! - RepoRat
I find Thatcher confusing--I don't think he's a full-time troll, but I'm mostly not sure what he is or believes. One of the few people who talk about OA who I really can't pin down. (Almost like I used to be, perhaps?) - Walt Crawford
On this particular list he has to comment multiple times on every single thread regardless of the relevance on his running the penn state press (and retiring some time ago). I'm sure he makes some good points but geez. - Christina Pikas from iPhone
Sandy's one of several reasons I unsub'd from that list and one other. Dude just talks too much. - Bill Hooker
He had a draft concept for OA books back in 1996 http://www.psupress.org/news..., but he seems to be so anti-OA today. - Joe
Bill Hooker
A Talk With Muhammad Yunus - NYTimes.com - http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013...
Tags: yunus social business - Bill Hooker
Bill Hooker
How to overcome Imposter Syndrome | Sauropod Vertebra Picture of the Week #AcademicSpring - http://svpow.com/2013...
Tags: lostart - Bill Hooker
Marge LW
I understand some more congratualtions go out to RepoRat on winning 2013 @UWMadisonLS Early-Career Award. What can I do, but simply bow down? Commencement speeches, cutting edge research and classes..I could go on. Rock it out!!
thanks, Marge :) - RepoRat
Excellent news; hearty congratulations to you RepoRat! - Galadriel C.
Not that any of us are surprised, but continued congrats anyhow, RR! - Lily
Congrats, RR!! - Katie
Woo! - lris
Hoo! - Joe
Well deserved recognition for an underappreciated Rat! - Bill Hooker
Awesome! - kaijsa
Stephen Francoeur
danah boyd, "why I’m quitting Mendeley (and why my employer has nothing to do with it)," apophenia - http://www.zephoria.org/thought...
Pull quote: “I cannot say the same thing for Elsevier. As most academics and many knowledge activists know, Elsevier has engaged in some pretty evil maneuvers. Elsevier published fake journals until it got caught. Its parent company was involved in the arms trade until it got caught. Elsevier played an unrepentant and significant role in advancing SOPA/PIPA/RWA and continues to lobby on issues that undermine scholarship. Elsevier currently actively screws over academic libraries and scholars through its bundling practices. There is no sign that the future of Elsevier is pro-researchers. There is zero indicator that Mendeley’s acquisition is anything other an attempt to placate the academics who are refusing to do free labor for Elsevier (editorial boards, reviewers, academics). There’s no attempt at penance, no apology, not even a promise of a future direction. Just an acquisition of a beloved company as though that makes up for all of the ways in which Elsevier has in the past _and continues to_ screw over scholars.” - Stephen Francoeur
And Elsevier apologists pile into the comments. - DJF
I loved her response to the first one, which boiled down to "no, REALLY, fuck Elsevier sideways." - RepoRat
omg... so, to summarize, microsoft is less evil than elsevier so it's ok that i work here. (i made sure to avoid all capital letters in this sentence) - Blake
Microsoft is probably less evil than it once was, but I still don't really trust it. As with many large organizations, their research arm probably is really independent, and I have no problem trust MSR more than I do the rest of the organization (cf, Bell Labs vs the rest of Bell/AT&T) - DJF
I don't trust OCLC as far as I could throw it. I trust OCLC Research pretty much implicitly. So yeah. - RepoRat
There's also the fact that, as danah points out, Elsevier is actively trying to restrict, control, and shut down open scholarly communication and research. Microsoft, no matter how evil, doesn't care about that. So it's easy to be 100% "Microsoft evil", and still be opposed to what Elsevier is doing. - DJF
I'm also not super-thrilled at the "discredit danah b/c of her employer" tactic. Smells of ad hominem. Sorry, Mr. Gunn. - RepoRat
yah know... i don't see that as ad hominem. I actually made that point, too. Elsevier has some really talented UX designers and what not on staff and people who aren't individually evil, but that doesn't make the company as a whole any less evil. just because she cares about kids doesn't make microsoft any less evil. (i use microsoft products, too) - Christina Pikas
Agree w RepoRat. Her employer has nothing to do with this. She could work for Springer or T&F and still legitimately think that Mendeley being bought by Elsevier is bad for the industry. - Heather Piwowar
Disagree. Her employer is entirely relevant. Microsoft is another giant gatekeeper IP-troll asshole corporation and anyone who works there can be expected to have been indoctrinated into that mindset, even if only slightly and subconsciously. So, for such a person to see another similar company as despicable says a lot about that second company. - Bill Hooker
This is all a sideshow. Whether db is a hypocrite (and I personally don't think she is) has NOTHING to do with whether the Mendely acquisition is good for Mendely users (and I personally think it is BAD for users). So congratulations on the misdirection and ad hominem, William Gunn, because it is apparently working. - Steele Lawman
Heather Piwowar
Re Mendeley/Elsevier one area I don't see being discussed in twitter stream etc, is that this buys Elsevier proprietary Intelligence. What Mendeley reveals in their Open API is only a tiny amount of their total data. It isn't click stream or highlighting or fine grained demographics etc. This means that Mendeley gives Elsevier a competitive...
advantage on what scholars do and how they do it. People are talking about whether Mendeley will treat all publishers equally like Scopus does... there is a difference. Scopus is built on citations, which anyone could in theory get with enough money. With Mendeley, Elsevier gets workflow information, and no other publishers get that. It is a smart move for them, but a blow to people who think that propping up Elsevier is not best for the industry. - Heather Piwowar
yes. please write that blog post. - RepoRat
Will try but no time today. Someone else free free to beat me to it, no need for attribution. - Heather Piwowar
the way things have worked before, a given aggregator only had access to individual user behavior related to their own publications, and not even always (library proxy servers protect people to some extent). Now Elsevier knows what every Mendeley user is reading and saving; they may even know some of where Mendeley users *get* what they read and save. if that doesn't seem worrisome to people, they weren't paying attention to the Attributor thing. - RepoRat
link to Attributor thing? - Heather Piwowar
http://scientopia.org/blogs... and http://scientopia.org/blogs... I think Elsevier would LOVE to peg Mendeley users who aren't clearly downloading via library or toll-gate access mechanisms. - RepoRat
Even if they are, the shared groups (which I'll admit to having been one to encourage for cross campus collab) means all the researchers then have access. - Hedgehog
But doesn't this mean they're going to start getting sued like whoa? I mean, it was my understanding that Mendeley's provision of (some of?) this data to the publishers was one of the only reasons they weren't already getting sued like whoa. - Meg VMeg
Meg, I hadn't heard that. Got linky? Because that's a reeeeeeally interesting angle. - RepoRat
Hard to stop thinking about Mendeley-as-elsevier-loyalty-card for data collection. I'm not thinking about it wrt subscription enforcement, but rather as intelligence for future Elsevier product innovations. Future product innovations that help Elsevier as priority #1 and scholarship and open scholarship with the same priority Elsevier has previously shown. - Heather Piwowar
Is Meg referring to something like what Jason Hoyt mentioned this moring? http://enjoythedisruption.com/post... - Hedgehog
Heather, regarding the insight available through the API and user activity. Imagine Elsevier was out of the picture, what would you say if Mendeley used it to do the same for itself. Develop and innovate on features that it had exclusive insight to, toward its own advancement? - Ricardo Vidal
I'd be ok with that. I've been assuming that's what you've been doing till now. - Heather Piwowar
So, following that logic, because you see Elsevier as evil, you consider that they'll certainly use the same tools to their advantage. Which is therefore bad. - Ricardo Vidal
I don't consider Elsevier evil. I consider them interested entirely in their own bottom line and very demonstrably willing to make decisions that are not in the best interest of science to defend and promote it. I don't want to help them do that with papers, my review hours, or my click data. - Heather Piwowar
as somebody said recently in a different context, if you're using their products when you have a choice, then you are funding their work. Unfortunately, academic libraries don't have much choice when it comes to subscribing to the journals, but we do have a choice of citation management platforms - DJF from Android
So we've talked about the enforcement angle and they understand this would be a really dumb thing to try to do. They want us more as a application platform since the whole Sciverse Apps thing didn't go all that well. - Mr. Gunn
Thanks for the feedback Heather. I see your point and can only hope that we can keep doing our good work and proving Mendeley a valuable tool and resource for researchers. - Ricardo Vidal
We've so far been successful with the approach that Open Access papers are read more, but if all the OA advocates leave Mendeley, then it's going to be hard to keep making that case. Having a strong OA community *within* Mendeley is really important and I hope people will stick around to show them that. - Mr. Gunn
soooo... instead we should implicitly say "Elsevier sucks except when they own something we like?" That's a stance I personally am kinda uncomfortable with. Like PSuber, tho, have never been a Mendeley user, so easy for me to say -- I'll just chug right along with Zotero the way I've been doing. - RepoRat
it doesn't matter whether the OA advocates are on Mendeley or not. People will still be reading their papers a lot. That's the point of OA. - DJF from Android
yes, but having good quality data accepted by even the most conservative groups showing the OA advantage certainly helps, and that's what Mendeley can provide - Mr. Gunn
Mendeley can definitely provide that, but again, it doesn't require that the OA advocates use it to achieve that. - DJF from Android
well, there will be less data on OA papers, less people doing interesting OA-related things with the data, etc. That's why I think people should stay. Just picking up your toys and going home is the easy way out. - Mr. Gunn
Sure, if we were children, and if this were a game. However, "if you're using their products when you have a choice, then you are funding their work" - Meg VMeg
And if I trusted Elsevier with the kind of data I would put into Mendeley. Here's the thing: I DON'T. That's not entirely Elsevier's fault (MIT and JSTOR and Attributor and Facebook own some of the blame, among others)... but I don't think Elsevier has exactly covered itself with glory, either, and it's *crystal* clear which financial side of the bread is buttered. Do I trust Elsevier to resist temptation for the sake of ethics? THEY HIRED ERIC DEZENHALL FFS. No. I don't. - RepoRat
So I'm glad that Mr. Gunn and Ricardo Vidal think Elsevier will do right by all this, and I think *they* believe that; I don't believe they're trying to blow smoke up FF's collective arse. I just... don't believe that will remain the case. Temptation much too great. Elsevier won't fsck up tomorrow, or the day after... but they'll fsck up. Guarandamnteed. - RepoRat
Elsevier is a big big place. I wish I could quote to you from the email I just got from some people within Elsevier promising their support in helping us make a business case for openness - saying they're our allies, but acknowledging that a huge organization like this isn't all going to be aligned internally. - Mr. Gunn
I got some great email about a global text mining plan too. Many people there really believed it. There was a time and a place and a scheduled tweetup. Plug got pulled. - Heather Piwowar from iPhone
no organization is immune from having plans canceled - Mr. Gunn
I agree. Though it wasn't a passive "plans were cancelled". Someone at Else cancelled the plans because they were too liberal/edgy/threatening even though had all sign offs till the day before. I just share that story to say we all know great email doesn't always work out. - Heather Piwowar from iPhone
Fair enough. Just pointed it out to show some nuance beyond the "everyone at Elsevier is evil and eats puppies" narrative extant. I have a feeling the task is even bigger than I realize, but that can't stop me from trying, and that really shouldn't stop you from supporting me, either. - Mr. Gunn
I'll try really hard not to take the quote "everyone at Elsevier is evil and eats puppies" out of context when I cite it in my next paper. :-) - Joe
I haven't seen that narrative on this thread. I'm trying hard to figure out a good way to support you that is consistent with what I believe, because I want to support you William Gunn :) - Heather Piwowar from iPhone
I support you, man. I just think they're gonna fuck you over, and it makes me sad. I do not want them to do that. - RepoRat
I do recognize the possibility, but I have to give it a shot. - Mr. Gunn
Salon commented here: Elsevier: All your data belongs to us http://www.salon.com/2013... via @Salon - WarLord
"some people within Elsevier promising their support in helping us make a business case for openness" Yes, and I'm sure all the hundreds of trillions of bacteria living in/on Hannibal Lecter and all his trillions non-neuronal cells were all nice and friendly - if only it wasn't for the measly 70-90b of neurons in his skull... Quite likely, the large majority of people working at... more... - Björn Brembs
I honor your efforts, Mr. Gunn. They remind me no little of my own vis-a-vis the libraries I've worked in. - RepoRat
This post captures Heather's sentiment, I think: http://www.salon.com/2013... - Björn Brembs
Maybe I will try my hand at a timeline of blog posts kinda like what John D does. - Joe
Wow, I haven't been back here in ages. Been trying to sort out my own thoughts on this...and I don't think I have a clear answer. I have a Mendeley account, I use it for a bunch of things including feeding the bibliography on my blog, and I haven't deleted it yet. Matt's point is the one that troubles me, Elsevier do have a history of running things into the ground. On the other hand it... more... - Cameron Neylon
...but there is another side to this which is that I know some of those cancelled projects of which Heather speaks and they had lots of those good people in them. So I worry about the inverse problem. What will happen to those people who have been on the inside working for change (and being shafted from time to time) now that there is a new shiny Open thing, both as the beacon everyone... more... - Cameron Neylon
I also remember when Elsevier bought the Beilstein database, and they have since greatly marked up access to that data. 1998 and 2007 were key years of that. http://www.elsevier.com/about... This is kinda similar. - Joe
fwiw, i posted on it here: http://scientopia.org/blogs... I'm pretty pragmatic when it comes to this sort of thing. It's not my primary reference manager (RefWorks is, sigh), but I intend to keep my account. - Christina Pikas
I also intend to keep my account, so that I can keep on putting stuff into the OA Irony Award group. A good bit of it from Elsevier. - Joe
(Slightly offtopic: here in this conversation we see what we lost when FF took a nosedive. This thread is better than all the scattered tweets and news links put together. I'm thinking it's time to re-invest in FF, since the sky hasn't actually fallen (I was a Chicken Little myself)...) - Bill Hooker
Something slightly ironic about returning because its back to a smaller group of people though... - Cameron Neylon
Have to admit I saw a link to Heather's post and thought "oh yes, Friendfeed, I remember when I went there..."But it is still here and functioning clearly which is interesting in itself. There must be some measure of maintenance and upkeep going on behind the scenes. - Cameron Neylon
y'all should come back. Nothing else is as good. - Heather Piwowar
Yeah, it's still pretty awesome and unlike anything out there. - Ricardo Vidal
It remains the best. Reminds me of my empeg :-) http://www.empeg.com/ - Björn Brembs
Cameron, it's good to read your thoughts here. It's a good point also about BMC, which is itself now a part of Springer. I hope FF is still here 4 years from now when open access is the default and everyone realizes this ;-) - Mr. Gunn
I've just blogged about Elsevier's emerging workflows here. http://www.darkrepository.net/blog... Scopus a big winner IMO. - Garret McMahon
Bill Hooker
Tags: film documentary want2see - Bill Hooker
Bill Hooker
Yeast Colony Morphology | IheartAnthony's Research - http://research.iheartanthony.com/2013...
Tags: lostart - Bill Hooker
Bill Hooker
Thought of the Day II | DrugMonkey - http://scientopia.org/blogs...
Tags: lostart - Bill Hooker
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