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Bill Hooker › Comments

Christina Pikas
virtual high 5 to L. Quilter who took ST down a peg on Liblicense.
Hint on ST? - Joe - Systems Analyst
(Sandy Thatcher?) - barbara fister
ding! that's the correct ST and here: http://listserv.crl.edu/wa... - Christina Pikas
L. Quilter has been v. awesome in my books since at least 1997. <3. - Marianne
I said something mean about Thatcher then deleted it. Instead I'll say--is he ever useful, or is he just a full-time troll? - Steele Lawman
I've known her online since 1995 or so, previous life and all that. Was just plain shocked to cross paths with her in library land! She's fantastic. (also: super thrilled to have no idea who ST is. do I need to?) - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
He said something nice about DPLA on Secret Agent Fister's latest IHE column. I was surprised. Unless it wasn't actually him! - RepoRat
I find Thatcher confusing--I don't think he's a full-time troll, but I'm mostly not sure what he is or believes. One of the few people who talk about OA who I really can't pin down. (Almost like I used to be, perhaps?) - Walt Crawford
On this particular list he has to comment multiple times on every single thread regardless of the relevance on his running the penn state press (and retiring some time ago). I'm sure he makes some good points but geez. - Christina Pikas from iPhone
Sandy's one of several reasons I unsub'd from that list and one other. Dude just talks too much. - Bill Hooker
He had a draft concept for OA books back in 1996 http://www.psupress.org/news..., but he seems to be so anti-OA today. - Joe - Systems Analyst
Bill Hooker
A Talk With Muhammad Yunus - NYTimes.com - http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013...
Tags: yunus social business - Bill Hooker
Bill Hooker
How to overcome Imposter Syndrome | Sauropod Vertebra Picture of the Week #AcademicSpring - http://svpow.com/2013...
Tags: lostart - Bill Hooker
Marge LW
I understand some more congratualtions go out to RepoRat on winning 2013 @UWMadisonLS Early-Career Award. What can I do, but simply bow down? Commencement speeches, cutting edge research and classes..I could go on. Rock it out!!
thanks, Marge :) - RepoRat
Excellent news; hearty congratulations to you RepoRat! - Galadriel C.
Not that any of us are surprised, but continued congrats anyhow, RR! - Lily
Congrats, RR!! - Katie
Woo! - lris
Well deserved recognition for an underappreciated Rat! - Bill Hooker
Awesome! - kaijsa
Stephen Francoeur
danah boyd, "why I’m quitting Mendeley (and why my employer has nothing to do with it)," apophenia - http://www.zephoria.org/thought...
Pull quote: “I cannot say the same thing for Elsevier. As most academics and many knowledge activists know, Elsevier has engaged in some pretty evil maneuvers. Elsevier published fake journals until it got caught. Its parent company was involved in the arms trade until it got caught. Elsevier played an unrepentant and significant role in advancing SOPA/PIPA/RWA and continues to lobby on issues that undermine scholarship. Elsevier currently actively screws over academic libraries and scholars through its bundling practices. There is no sign that the future of Elsevier is pro-researchers. There is zero indicator that Mendeley’s acquisition is anything other an attempt to placate the academics who are refusing to do free labor for Elsevier (editorial boards, reviewers, academics). There’s no attempt at penance, no apology, not even a promise of a future direction. Just an acquisition of a beloved company as though that makes up for all of the ways in which Elsevier has in the past _and continues to_ screw over scholars.” - Stephen Francoeur
And Elsevier apologists pile into the comments. - DJF
I loved her response to the first one, which boiled down to "no, REALLY, fuck Elsevier sideways." - RepoRat
omg... so, to summarize, microsoft is less evil than elsevier so it's ok that i work here. (i made sure to avoid all capital letters in this sentence) - Blake
Microsoft is probably less evil than it once was, but I still don't really trust it. As with many large organizations, their research arm probably is really independent, and I have no problem trust MSR more than I do the rest of the organization (cf, Bell Labs vs the rest of Bell/AT&T) - DJF
I don't trust OCLC as far as I could throw it. I trust OCLC Research pretty much implicitly. So yeah. - RepoRat
There's also the fact that, as danah points out, Elsevier is actively trying to restrict, control, and shut down open scholarly communication and research. Microsoft, no matter how evil, doesn't care about that. So it's easy to be 100% "Microsoft evil", and still be opposed to what Elsevier is doing. - DJF
I'm also not super-thrilled at the "discredit danah b/c of her employer" tactic. Smells of ad hominem. Sorry, Mr. Gunn. - RepoRat
yah know... i don't see that as ad hominem. I actually made that point, too. Elsevier has some really talented UX designers and what not on staff and people who aren't individually evil, but that doesn't make the company as a whole any less evil. just because she cares about kids doesn't make microsoft any less evil. (i use microsoft products, too) - Christina Pikas
Agree w RepoRat. Her employer has nothing to do with this. She could work for Springer or T&F and still legitimately think that Mendeley being bought by Elsevier is bad for the industry. - Heather Piwowar
Disagree. Her employer is entirely relevant. Microsoft is another giant gatekeeper IP-troll asshole corporation and anyone who works there can be expected to have been indoctrinated into that mindset, even if only slightly and subconsciously. So, for such a person to see another similar company as despicable says a lot about that second company. - Bill Hooker
This is all a sideshow. Whether db is a hypocrite (and I personally don't think she is) has NOTHING to do with whether the Mendely acquisition is good for Mendely users (and I personally think it is BAD for users). So congratulations on the misdirection and ad hominem, William Gunn, because it is apparently working. - Steele Lawman
Heather Piwowar
Re Mendeley/Elsevier one area I don't see being discussed in twitter stream etc, is that this buys Elsevier proprietary Intelligence. What Mendeley reveals in their Open API is only a tiny amount of their total data. It isn't click stream or highlighting or fine grained demographics etc. This means that Mendeley gives Elsevier a competitive...
advantage on what scholars do and how they do it. People are talking about whether Mendeley will treat all publishers equally like Scopus does... there is a difference. Scopus is built on citations, which anyone could in theory get with enough money. With Mendeley, Elsevier gets workflow information, and no other publishers get that. It is a smart move for them, but a blow to people who think that propping up Elsevier is not best for the industry. - Heather Piwowar
yes. please write that blog post. - RepoRat
Will try but no time today. Someone else free free to beat me to it, no need for attribution. - Heather Piwowar
the way things have worked before, a given aggregator only had access to individual user behavior related to their own publications, and not even always (library proxy servers protect people to some extent). Now Elsevier knows what every Mendeley user is reading and saving; they may even know some of where Mendeley users *get* what they read and save. if that doesn't seem worrisome to people, they weren't paying attention to the Attributor thing. - RepoRat
link to Attributor thing? - Heather Piwowar
http://scientopia.org/blogs... and http://scientopia.org/blogs... I think Elsevier would LOVE to peg Mendeley users who aren't clearly downloading via library or toll-gate access mechanisms. - RepoRat
Even if they are, the shared groups (which I'll admit to having been one to encourage for cross campus collab) means all the researchers then have access. - Hedgehog
But doesn't this mean they're going to start getting sued like whoa? I mean, it was my understanding that Mendeley's provision of (some of?) this data to the publishers was one of the only reasons they weren't already getting sued like whoa. - Meg VMeg
Meg, I hadn't heard that. Got linky? Because that's a reeeeeeally interesting angle. - RepoRat
Hard to stop thinking about Mendeley-as-elsevier-loyalty-card for data collection. I'm not thinking about it wrt subscription enforcement, but rather as intelligence for future Elsevier product innovations. Future product innovations that help Elsevier as priority #1 and scholarship and open scholarship with the same priority Elsevier has previously shown. - Heather Piwowar
Is Meg referring to something like what Jason Hoyt mentioned this moring? http://enjoythedisruption.com/post... - Hedgehog
Heather, regarding the insight available through the API and user activity. Imagine Elsevier was out of the picture, what would you say if Mendeley used it to do the same for itself. Develop and innovate on features that it had exclusive insight to, toward its own advancement? - Ricardo Vidal
I'd be ok with that. I've been assuming that's what you've been doing till now. - Heather Piwowar
So, following that logic, because you see Elsevier as evil, you consider that they'll certainly use the same tools to their advantage. Which is therefore bad. - Ricardo Vidal
I don't consider Elsevier evil. I consider them interested entirely in their own bottom line and very demonstrably willing to make decisions that are not in the best interest of science to defend and promote it. I don't want to help them do that with papers, my review hours, or my click data. - Heather Piwowar
as somebody said recently in a different context, if you're using their products when you have a choice, then you are funding their work. Unfortunately, academic libraries don't have much choice when it comes to subscribing to the journals, but we do have a choice of citation management platforms - DJF from Android
So we've talked about the enforcement angle and they understand this would be a really dumb thing to try to do. They want us more as a application platform since the whole Sciverse Apps thing didn't go all that well. - Mr. Gunn
Thanks for the feedback Heather. I see your point and can only hope that we can keep doing our good work and proving Mendeley a valuable tool and resource for researchers. - Ricardo Vidal
We've so far been successful with the approach that Open Access papers are read more, but if all the OA advocates leave Mendeley, then it's going to be hard to keep making that case. Having a strong OA community *within* Mendeley is really important and I hope people will stick around to show them that. - Mr. Gunn
soooo... instead we should implicitly say "Elsevier sucks except when they own something we like?" That's a stance I personally am kinda uncomfortable with. Like PSuber, tho, have never been a Mendeley user, so easy for me to say -- I'll just chug right along with Zotero the way I've been doing. - RepoRat
it doesn't matter whether the OA advocates are on Mendeley or not. People will still be reading their papers a lot. That's the point of OA. - DJF from Android
yes, but having good quality data accepted by even the most conservative groups showing the OA advantage certainly helps, and that's what Mendeley can provide - Mr. Gunn
Mendeley can definitely provide that, but again, it doesn't require that the OA advocates use it to achieve that. - DJF from Android
well, there will be less data on OA papers, less people doing interesting OA-related things with the data, etc. That's why I think people should stay. Just picking up your toys and going home is the easy way out. - Mr. Gunn
Sure, if we were children, and if this were a game. However, "if you're using their products when you have a choice, then you are funding their work" - Meg VMeg
And if I trusted Elsevier with the kind of data I would put into Mendeley. Here's the thing: I DON'T. That's not entirely Elsevier's fault (MIT and JSTOR and Attributor and Facebook own some of the blame, among others)... but I don't think Elsevier has exactly covered itself with glory, either, and it's *crystal* clear which financial side of the bread is buttered. Do I trust Elsevier to resist temptation for the sake of ethics? THEY HIRED ERIC DEZENHALL FFS. No. I don't. - RepoRat
So I'm glad that Mr. Gunn and Ricardo Vidal think Elsevier will do right by all this, and I think *they* believe that; I don't believe they're trying to blow smoke up FF's collective arse. I just... don't believe that will remain the case. Temptation much too great. Elsevier won't fsck up tomorrow, or the day after... but they'll fsck up. Guarandamnteed. - RepoRat
Elsevier is a big big place. I wish I could quote to you from the email I just got from some people within Elsevier promising their support in helping us make a business case for openness - saying they're our allies, but acknowledging that a huge organization like this isn't all going to be aligned internally. - Mr. Gunn
I got some great email about a global text mining plan too. Many people there really believed it. There was a time and a place and a scheduled tweetup. Plug got pulled. - Heather Piwowar from iPhone
no organization is immune from having plans canceled - Mr. Gunn
I agree. Though it wasn't a passive "plans were cancelled". Someone at Else cancelled the plans because they were too liberal/edgy/threatening even though had all sign offs till the day before. I just share that story to say we all know great email doesn't always work out. - Heather Piwowar from iPhone
Fair enough. Just pointed it out to show some nuance beyond the "everyone at Elsevier is evil and eats puppies" narrative extant. I have a feeling the task is even bigger than I realize, but that can't stop me from trying, and that really shouldn't stop you from supporting me, either. - Mr. Gunn
I'll try really hard not to take the quote "everyone at Elsevier is evil and eats puppies" out of context when I cite it in my next paper. :-) - Joe - Systems Analyst
I haven't seen that narrative on this thread. I'm trying hard to figure out a good way to support you that is consistent with what I believe, because I want to support you William Gunn :) - Heather Piwowar from iPhone
I support you, man. I just think they're gonna fuck you over, and it makes me sad. I do not want them to do that. - RepoRat
I do recognize the possibility, but I have to give it a shot. - Mr. Gunn
Salon commented here: Elsevier: All your data belongs to us http://www.salon.com/2013... via @Salon - WarLord
"some people within Elsevier promising their support in helping us make a business case for openness" Yes, and I'm sure all the hundreds of trillions of bacteria living in/on Hannibal Lecter and all his trillions non-neuronal cells were all nice and friendly - if only it wasn't for the measly 70-90b of neurons in his skull... Quite likely, the large majority of people working at... more... - Björn Brembs
I honor your efforts, Mr. Gunn. They remind me no little of my own vis-a-vis the libraries I've worked in. - RepoRat
This post captures Heather's sentiment, I think: http://www.salon.com/2013... - Björn Brembs
Maybe I will try my hand at a timeline of blog posts kinda like what John D does. - Joe - Systems Analyst
Wow, I haven't been back here in ages. Been trying to sort out my own thoughts on this...and I don't think I have a clear answer. I have a Mendeley account, I use it for a bunch of things including feeding the bibliography on my blog, and I haven't deleted it yet. Matt's point is the one that troubles me, Elsevier do have a history of running things into the ground. On the other hand it... more... - Cameron Neylon
...but there is another side to this which is that I know some of those cancelled projects of which Heather speaks and they had lots of those good people in them. So I worry about the inverse problem. What will happen to those people who have been on the inside working for change (and being shafted from time to time) now that there is a new shiny Open thing, both as the beacon everyone... more... - Cameron Neylon
I also remember when Elsevier bought the Beilstein database, and they have since greatly marked up access to that data. 1998 and 2007 were key years of that. http://www.elsevier.com/about... This is kinda similar. - Joe - Systems Analyst
fwiw, i posted on it here: http://scientopia.org/blogs... I'm pretty pragmatic when it comes to this sort of thing. It's not my primary reference manager (RefWorks is, sigh), but I intend to keep my account. - Christina Pikas
I also intend to keep my account, so that I can keep on putting stuff into the OA Irony Award group. A good bit of it from Elsevier. - Joe - Systems Analyst
(Slightly offtopic: here in this conversation we see what we lost when FF took a nosedive. This thread is better than all the scattered tweets and news links put together. I'm thinking it's time to re-invest in FF, since the sky hasn't actually fallen (I was a Chicken Little myself)...) - Bill Hooker
Something slightly ironic about returning because its back to a smaller group of people though... - Cameron Neylon
Have to admit I saw a link to Heather's post and thought "oh yes, Friendfeed, I remember when I went there..."But it is still here and functioning clearly which is interesting in itself. There must be some measure of maintenance and upkeep going on behind the scenes. - Cameron Neylon
y'all should come back. Nothing else is as good. - Heather Piwowar
Yeah, it's still pretty awesome and unlike anything out there. - Ricardo Vidal
It remains the best. Reminds me of my empeg :-) http://www.empeg.com/ - Björn Brembs
Cameron, it's good to read your thoughts here. It's a good point also about BMC, which is itself now a part of Springer. I hope FF is still here 4 years from now when open access is the default and everyone realizes this ;-) - Mr. Gunn
I've just blogged about Elsevier's emerging workflows here. http://www.darkrepository.net/blog... Scopus a big winner IMO. - Garret McMahon
Bill Hooker
Tags: film documentary want2see - Bill Hooker
Bill Hooker
Yeast Colony Morphology | IheartAnthony's Research - http://research.iheartanthony.com/2013...
Tags: lostart - Bill Hooker
Bill Hooker
Thought of the Day II | DrugMonkey - http://scientopia.org/blogs...
Tags: lostart - Bill Hooker
Bill Hooker
A pox on your numbered references, redux | Sauropod Vertebra Picture of the Week #AcademicSpring - http://svpow.com/2013...
Tags: lostart - Bill Hooker
Bill Hooker
Car Ride Science, Ep. 1: Copernicus | Wandering Third Instar - http://scientopia.org/blogs...
Tags: lostart - Bill Hooker
Walt Crawford
So now J.Beall is taking out after Ithaka as well, apparently for wearing nice suits. https://plus.google.com/u...
wtf? - jambina
In the context of one of the resigning JLA editorial board being affialited with Ithaka S+R. He's broadening his targets, I guess. Wonder if he'll ever label one big commercial publisher known to republish papers and create phony journals as predatory? - Walt Crawford
Thank you for linking that, Walt. "Their representatives are handsome, top MBAs, outfitted in fine woolen suits." That is the funniest thing I have read in a while. - Steele Lawman
aw, now i want a woolen suit! - Marie
wow. - Sarah
pretty sure that's the same dude who commented on my American Libraries interview that the problem with SUNY Potsdam's journal subscriptions is that my staff are unionized, making too much money, and stripping resources from the students. So this is pretty much par for the course, yeah? - Jenica
(Seriously, this is awesome: "Jenica Rogers appears to be enjoying the attention she is receiving as the anti-corporatist heroine. The real story is much different. Students at SUNY Potsdam are the victims of a greedy union." Because that's TOTALLY WHAT'S GOING ON HERE.) /threadjack - Jenica
Ah, geez, Jenica: Can you post a link to that? Yesterday, working on my C&I OA roundup (in this case, an Open and Shut? interview regarding the claim that Beall was blackmailing "predatory" publishers), I assumed that Beall's defense of email spoofing *must* be correct--unless he'd gone around the bend. - Walt Crawford
These incidents are making me wonder just a little about those last five words. Maybe he's just overstressed and lashing out. I've done that. - Walt Crawford
i'm going with "around the bend". Seriously. - Jenica
I am too. Beall's a bit strange. - RepoRat
What an asshole. - Mary Carmen
and unhinged. Really. - barbara fister
I'm not personally always happy with the way Ithaka spends (and raises) money, but it's not about the suits. And flailing at faculty for being in a union? what a peculiar set of windmills to tilt at. - barbara fister
He has a long history of this, so if he's gone around the bend it was a while ago. He was tilting at Dublin Core a long time ago (he wrote a paper in Library Hi Tech News in 2004 whose abstract started "The Dublin Core Metadata Standard was conceived illegitimately, had a troubled life, and has finally met its demise."). - Sarah
And goes on to accuse OCLC of creating Dublin Core in order to make money off of it. - Sarah
phew. leetle too much quicksilver in that man's diet. - RepoRat
So he has no coherent agenda, outside of "if there's money in it, I'm against it?" - Steele Lawman
mebbe the lawsuit is getting to him? - jambina
Thanks for that useful background, Sarah--LHTN is "paywall, can't read" (and I stopped writing for it when Emerald decided they should charge twice as much as Pierian had...and canned the editor, who was a friend). So there's a track record. - Walt Crawford
Thanks for the link, Jenica. I had, of course, read and enjoyed the interview when it first came out, but missed that...odd...comment. Now I'm better informed. And, oddly, I never thought you wanted to be an "anti-corporatist hero," just that you were trying to do your job properly. - Walt Crawford
Thanks, Walt. That's pretty much my goal, yes. - Jenica
Sigh. I wish the Library Leadership Network still existed, not only because it was a decent source of income but because I think it could lead the way for discussing what contemporary & future library leadership is all about, without the overhead of a journal. But that bridge doesn't even have water under it any more... - Walt Crawford
otoh, it's nice that someone is irrelevantly commenting on the apparel of the mens, rather than the usual "cardigan- and sensible-shoe-wearing" womens. #offTopic - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
This is a shame, because *someone* really needs to be naming and shaming the genuinely predatory OA publishers. I had hoped OASPA would do that... or do *something*... but whatever. You'd think Skitch would be all over that... hmm, come to think of it, how long before Beall starts blogging there? - Bill Hooker
Oh, he's the same kind of asshole who suggests that it would be cheaper to run public libraries with interns and volunteers. Now I know what the academic library equivalent looks and sounds like. - Andy
Bill: For SK to take after predatory publishers (but, of course, only predatory *OA* publishers) would be entirely useless, since SK regards *all* OA as predatory. OASPA needs to get some teeth. - Walt Crawford
He is a libertarian, if that helps explain some of his economic philosophies. - Joe - Systems Analyst
Joe, we're all librarians! What does that have to do with our economic philosophies? Why, to be a librarian is to be...oh, wait. Never mind. - Steele Lawman
+1 Steve. Oh, and as for Beall's libertarianism? I assume the University of Colorado Denver is a private university with no government support, then? - Walt Crawford
I'm sure that one can be a libertarian working for a state institution the same as one could be an atheist working for a Catholic one. Might have some cognitive dissonance from time to time, but don't we all? - Steele Lawman
I guess "cognitive dissonance" is one way to put it. Another one begins with "hyp..." If you're an atheist who believes church institutions should all be shut down, then I think you'd have difficulty working for a Catholic institution--although, of course, there are librarians who think libraries should go away. - Walt Crawford
It seems unlikely to me that most people are that doctrinaire. Heck, many Catholics themselves have significant problems with the Catholic church. I think if we tar him as a hypocrite for his political views, we are getting into "fine woolen suit" territory ourselves. - Steele Lawman
Maybe that's true. - Walt Crawford
Catholics have a finely-developed ability to compromise with ridiculous authority figures. We (long-lapsed but still belonging to a degree) get a lot of practice. I am not sure how libertarians fare. - barbara fister
John Dupuis
This may be the worst post on OA I have ever attempted to read: Why Open Access is Good News for Neo-Nazis http://www.socialsciencespace.com/2012... As one can imagine, I didn't get very far.
'splain, plese. - Uli
Go home sociology, you are drunk - Pete
^^^ LOLOL - Catherine Pellegrino
i <3 pete - jambina
sociology is one of my liaison subjects. mostly they are fine, but sometimes... *sighs* - Pete
Soo much wrong. - Joe - Systems Analyst
Pete made me laugh. - Marie
Pete wins the internet today - awd
*headdesk* - Kirsten
No no no no... As one commenter notes, the neo-Nazi use is fair use in any case--and as a paraphrase, it doesn't even need fair use/fair dealing. Sure that guy wasn't set up by SK to make them look reasonable and articulate by comparison? - Walt Crawford
I certainly HOPE that OA is good for Nazis. It should be good for everyone. - Steele Lawman
Terrorists can download oa articles, too, and use them for homework or to understand their medical conditions - Christina Pikas from iPhone
As if copyright was holding people back from editing academic papers to reflect their belief systems and using those edited papers to advance their own agenda. That never happens, right? - Andy
Well, oddly, Nazi propaganda was in many ways a creative editing of in-copyright philosophy, so... - Pete
Bad things can be done with innocuous toll access content, too. Remember the kids who learned of telephone tones at 2600 Hz (and other Hz) from an IEEE journal to make free phone calls and sell illegal boxes in the 70s? - Joe - Systems Analyst
Yeah, and just look what happened when regular folks started reading the Bible... - Catherine Pellegrino
404: Yes, I remember those kids. Two of them created a company that sells a lot of phones and tablets. - Walt Crawford
But Neo-Nazis use phones! And tablets! - John Dupuis
It's that bizarre argument that goes "Bad people use hammers to build their houses so we can't let good people have hammers either or who knows what will result?!" - John Dupuis
Where's the SK outrage? A publishing model (against which they have nothing; which, indeed, they support, with a few small caveats) has been grossly misrepresented. - Bill Hooker
John, just like with guns. - Steele Lawman
LOL, EC, that's very true and a discussion around my house more than occasionally. Free speech, too, kind of operates the same way. - John Dupuis
I would note that one recent would-be OA guru uses a more sophisticated version of this as a primary argument against CC BY: "What if your stuff is used for purposes you don't agree with?" Or, in this case, "What if somebody adds value to your work and has the temerity to CHARGE for it?" - Walt Crawford
That would be this: http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/impacto... The comments are interesting too. It'd be fun to lock Taylor & McCormick up in a room and see them slug it out. McCormick's at the iAnnotate workshop in a few weeks so I'll be curious to talk to him a bit about OA in the humanities vs. the sciences. - John Dupuis
That wasn't the specific item I was thinking of, but it's consistent with Heather M's crusade against CC-BY. And I have now been told, what, a dozen times about HM's doctorate. - Walt Crawford
HM != Her Majesty. - Joe - Systems Analyst
That depends on who you ask, actually--at least in terms of apparent desire to lord it over how OA is done. - Walt Crawford
Bill Hooker
Heather Piwowar
From email convo. Nature's Terms of Use: http://www.nature.com/info... Using The Site point 4. The "provided" is only for copying. The restrictions on downloading seem additional and are a terms of use issue... I don't believe these would be touched by UK copyright law. Standard legalese or not, it is fairly unintelligible as a sentence,...
and Nature can surely do better :) If Nature wanted to facilitate textmining, they could so by stating it clearly here no matter what the state of the copyright law. Instead this sentence seems clearly meant to deter it. - Heather Piwowar
Nature (Macmillan Publishing) doesn't *want* to do better. Timo et al. probably do, but they don't make the decisions -- money does. Every day that the subscription model survives, every day that publishers retain control of all kinds over the scholarly record, is another day of higher profits than will be possible in an 100% OA world. So NPG is doing everything they can to delay OA --... more... - Bill Hooker
I know. But they want to look like they want to do better. So I think publicly (or in broadly cc'd email) highlighting ways they can do better can be effective. fwiw I heard Timo talk about textmining at Charleston and he seemed in no rush to make that situation lots better... it was pretty depressing. - Heather Piwowar
Bill Hooker
DJF
LSW: DJF
The difference between librarians and real faculty? Faculty keep academic regalia in their offices at all times. (This is not mine, but is from a faculty office that I visited today for a research project I'm working on.)
IMG_20130315_112105.jpg
Mine is shoved in a bottom file cabinet drawer. - LibrarianOnTheLoose
I, too, keep mine shoved in my bottom file cabinet drawer. I remain thankful that someone my size retired just as I got hired, so she gave me all her regalia! (that stuff is so expensive). - MontglaneChess
Mine's hung on my office's coat tree. Am I faculty or librarian? MUA-HAHAHAHA I explode your brain. - RepoRat
Mine is on the back of my door... *sigh* - awd
Do you have these things in case a convocation breaks out? - ♫Jorge Covert, Trainer♫
SLIS holds its own graduation ceremony. We're supposed to show up in our medievalesque togs. (And holy wowzers, yes, the said togs be PRICEY.) - RepoRat
Mine's in a closet in my assistant's office. Not sure what that makes me, either. - LB: Ratchet Bear
One only ever wears the drag for a half day or a day once or twice a year, and only ever on campus. So why drag it back and forth from home? Wear it, take it to the campus dry cleaning outlet, take it back to the office. Done for the year. - DJF
Maurice, you just never know when something regaliaworthy will happen! :) - LB: Ratchet Bear
ok, so it is like being a Boy Scout. Always Prepared for Pomp and Circumstance. - ♫Jorge Covert, Trainer♫
Mine's in my coat closet at home. I'll inform the faculty senate that I'm not real. - kaijsa
Another reason for me to be happy I left academia. If I'm gonna wear a dress, I want to be lip-synching on a stage and looking fucking fabulous, not plonking around at a dull graduation ceremony. - Bill Hooker
I actually enjoy the hell outta our graduation ceremony. Mah kids, I luhs them. (I admit that the faculty and honorary-doctorate speeches are hit-or-miss.) - RepoRat
Our campus pays for rental each year so why pay all that money!?! (FYI - if you own yours, they reimburse dry-cleaning.) I find it to be a charming benefit. - Lisa Hinchliffe
DJF - you clean yours every time? I have three sets hanging on the back of my office door. - ~Courtney F
I have my hood from my undergrad degree, and nothing else. The only postsecondary convocation I have attended is my own. I neither own nor need regalia. - DJF
Also, If you attended convocation in Southern Ontario in July, you'd clean it afterwards too. - DJF
I attend graduation in both May and August in Nashville... I've only ever cleaned mine once :) Apparently our a/c is better than yours ;) - ~Courtney F
Yes, it probably is. - DJF
I'm waiting on delivery of mine from College of Dentistry so I can show up at graduation this year. Not sure how fancy it will be. If not fancy enough, I'm going fabric shopping and asking my mom to help. #allthevelvet #minewillhavecustompockets - Hedgehog
Heather Piwowar
In which I stop pulling punches with H Morrison (comments): https://plus.google.com/u...
you go, girl - Meg VMeg
So her arguments not really making sense isn't just my reading comprehension problem? Good to know. - kendrak
Why is she being a jerk when you're essentially on the same team? - Christina Pikas from iPhone
she's not the only one who does that, PETER MURRAY-RUST and MICHAEL EISEN and STEVAN HARNAD and LI'L RICKY POYNDER. (There, see, they've got ME doing it.) - RepoRat
I've had Christina's question in mind for a while, and I think RR has the answer of sorts (and maybe add Bremb to that list). In Morrison's case, part of me hears a need to be The Authority on OA (with a doctorate on the subject and all). I suspect SK does less harm to OA than its "OA BUT ONLY ON MY TERMS!" advocates. Heather P, good to see you in the Suber camp (as I interpret the route you're taking). - Walt Crawford
The OA movement does seem to attract a fair bit of almost religious zeal on the part of some of its adherents. I think they all want to be pope of OA. Locking them in the Sistine Chapel and maybe losing the key doesn't seem like a bad idea. - John Dupuis
And the whole "nobody can charge for anything ever" isn't part of my definition of OA. - John Dupuis
it feels very empowering to call a trolling comment a trolling comment. I should do this more often. - Heather Piwowar
John: That last one is particularly interesting. Peter S. and others (e.g., Walt C) have noted for years that it would be both appropriate and interesting for a Gold OA journal to make all refereed articles free and charge for (a) print subscriptions, (b) non-refereed editorial material. I believe Science, for example, would do very well with such a structure. And be in the letter & spirit of OA. - Walt Crawford
Yup, BMJ has this model I believe. I do think it is a bit too bad... there is lots of great stuff in the magazine section that it would be better if the whole wide world could read.... but people gotta charge for something and the moral/research-progress arguments for magazine content being OA just aren't as strong. (fwiw this is why I was willing to write non-OA content for Nature's magazine section) - Heather Piwowar
Absolutely. The idea that only a very small number of business models are "pure" is counter productive, especially for non-scholarly content. (ie: http://scienceblogs.com/confess...) - John Dupuis
Walt, I forgot to mention: yup, I am in the Suber camp on pretty much everything. If I ever find myself not in the Suber camp I reevaluate my position because I am likely wrong :) - Heather Piwowar
You folks are giving me so many good ideas for fresh material for my late-April OA precon (if enough people sign up for it). Keep it coming. (Sorry: Mild threadjack.) - Walt Crawford
+1 Heather. - John Dupuis
HM's comments are head-scratching, that's to be sure. It's like she's arguing that if Elsevier made its content CC-BY and then someone else developed a fee-based commercial product around that content that somehow the original OA content is thereafter compromised or less useful or no longer OA. Am I reading her totally wrong? - John Dupuis
It's like how some people think gay marriage rights somehow affect the sanctity or validity of existing straight marriages. - John Dupuis
I think you're reading her right, which is wildly frustrating. - Walt Crawford
It's like a car crash, I can't look away. - John Dupuis
That, Graham, may be the most patronising e-mail I have seen! Parsing it as '*I* know OA, leave it to me, you do whatever Sciency stuff it is you do' - Pete
Yeah, I think you were oaexpertsplained. - John Dupuis
Wow. Just wow. - Walt Crawford
HM is unexplainable. Does she not understand that the source remains oa and freely available no matter what happens to the downstream revisions and mashups? - Joe - Systems Analyst
Not cool to post private email in public, even when said email is weapons-grade assholery. - Bill Hooker
I'll hold my fire on Stevan Harnad, and PMR just pisses me off every time he shows up these days (what the fuck is with the stuffed animals? is he losing his marbles?). But Eisen and Brembs are very much part of the solution imo; without a few strong voices on the OA side it's too easy for the SKitchers and allies to slide the Overton Window their way. And how is Richard Poynder a problem?? - Bill Hooker
Eisen doesn't often screw this up, but when he does -- as IMO he did with the reaction to the OSTP memo -- he does it big. Brembs is very, very good at pushing organizationally infeasible Big Plans, which makes me (at least) shut right down when he starts up with his "libraries will save us!" crazytalk. Poynder has openly dissed libraries and librarians, taking his cues there from Harnad and PMR. - RepoRat
@404: I've argued with HM about exactly that. She worries about incentives for the commercial entity doing the enclosing to try to do away with the original, OA, source version. E.g. EvilCo™ Publishers duplicates PubMed Central and then lobbies the US gummint, which is famously and horribly susceptible to such nonsense, to reduce costs by defunding PMC itself. (Not to put words in HM's mouth here, any errors mine etc) (Edit: PubMed Central, not PubMed) - Bill Hooker
@RR -- ah, mine own ox was not directly gored by RP so I missed that. Mea culpa. Eisen is a good sport, you can yell right back at him (I did, over the OSTP memo, and I am but an egg in his HHMI-funded presence). Brembs can also take it as well as dish it, but I understand if you are just tired of pointing out where ugly facts undermine his beautiful theories about libraries and what they can do in the real world. - Bill Hooker
Well, the evil companies did try to shut down pubmed once, for being an anticompetitive use of government money intruding on the private sector. - DJF from Android
I'll admit that I'm likely deluding myself as to how much of the potential libraries have, they will be able to realize. However, I find the potential is large enough to warrant unrealistic visions and push for them. And besides, my library now does pretty much exactly what I would dream all libraries should be doing, and so is the entire TU Delft, so it can't be totally out of this... more... - Björn Brembs
Plus, I do feel somewhat sad to find myself on a blacklist set up by people who I thought were on the same team as me... :-) - Björn Brembs
Oh hey, there's no blacklist, there's just us arguing. It's all good. - Bill Hooker
@bb I'm quite enjoying the reactions to your recent article -I read a lot of the thoughts on your blog but having them in an article seems to be getting more attention. - Christina Pikas from iPhone
What Bill says. There's no blacklist. Well, there is, but only SK is on it. - Walt Crawford
Bjorn, don't worry you're definitely on my non-black list. I really do appreciate your vision of the role that libraries could play in scholarly communications, even if the path from here to there can be a bit hard to visualize at times. - John Dupuis
Nils Reinton
Characteristics of the Chlamydia tr... [Adv Clin Exp Med. 2012 Nov-Dec] - PubMed - NCBI - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed...
Please send to sciphu_at_sciphu_dot_com - Nils Reinton from Bookmarklet
Google found this: http://www.advances.am.wroc.pl/pdf... when all I was looking for was the journal homepage... - Bill Hooker
Nice ! Thank you Bill :-) - Nils Reinton
Bill Hooker
In which I stop pulling punches with H Morrison... - Heather Piwowar - FriendFeed - http://friendfeed.com/researc...
Tags: lostart - Bill Hooker
Bill Hooker
Heather Piwowar - Google+ - Here's what CC-BY does for textmining: if a publisher… - https://plus.google.com/u...
Tags: lostart - Bill Hooker
Bill Hooker
NeuroDojo: The terrifying death of Google Reader - http://neurodojo.blogspot.com/2013...
Tags: lostart - Bill Hooker
Heather Piwowar
Following up on FF thread from a while ago, I finally blogged about PMC bulk downloading restrictions and whether they are necessary due to copyright, as claimed. Please come weigh in? https://researchremix.wordpress.com/2013...
Nothing substantive to add but thanks for bringing this some much needed attention. Egon asked related questions ages ago (http://sennoma.net/?p=621) and I never could find an answer anywhere. - Bill Hooker
lris
In an uncharacteristic fit of panic about what might happen if FriendFeed goes boom, I secured us the URL facebook.com/groups/theLSW
It's requiring a login "to see this page." I assume that's only until the page is needed (which I hope isn't any time soon)? - Betsy
You can hit escape to make it go away, usually, unless/until Facebook changes its mind about that. (If FF goes boom I still won't rejoin Facebook, sorry. Or Google+.Hopefully FF won't go boom.) - Deborah Fitchett
Betsy, that's odd because I made it totally open. But I won't worry about it for now because mostly I just wanted to be sure of the URL. Hopefully FF won't go boom. - lris
Guys, don't spend too much time talking and worrying about FF going boom because of the takeover -- that's what we did in the Life Scientists room, which is now basically dead. Self-fulfilling prophecy, and FF is still here doing fine. I really, really wish we hadn't done that (I was one of the main culprits, predicting immediate boomage). - Bill Hooker
also, there's a google hangout room thing for LSW too. So which room should we go to in the unlikely event of a boom?! https://plus.google.com/u... - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
Meanwhile, if there are people you really want to think that LSW is dead, guide them to the Google+ room (I started) or the wiki or the Facebook group or... is there a MySpace page, for Songs of the LSW? - Walt Crawford
I've set up a space in Friendster, too. Also, I've commandeered a group study room in my library for the LSW. - Stephen Francoeur
have we laid claim on alt.libraries.LSW (or should that be rec.libraries.LSW)? - Catherine Pellegrino
Thanks Francoeur. I tried to get a study room here but it turns out we don't allow staking out study rooms. Stupid policies. - lris
*heads up to CUNY for the library LSW study room* - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
Hmm, maybe we should have checked on this before, but does your library allow food and drink? If not, we'll want to choose a different library. - lris
Oh, I think the LSW is only interested in two things and it ain't food and drink. - Stephen Francoeur
Yo. It's new yawk... hookers an' blow are our food and drink - awd
though, as an alternative, we *will* take food and drink. But only catered, with good booze. - Louise "Weezy" Alcorn
Bill Hooker
A full modular, $250K per year NIH grant doesn’t actually pay for itself. | DrugMonkey - http://scientopia.org/blogs...
Tags: lostart - Bill Hooker
John Dupuis
RT @researchremix: Awesome: PeerJ computes research $$ saved by choosing @thePeerJ instead of subscription journals. See front page + https://t.co/UkzQ4DLOkQ
Are any libraries/universities with OA fee budgets keeping track+publicizing their system "savings"? Sounds like a great thing to brag about, and a great way to reinforce that subscription money is, when it comes down to it, research money. - Heather Piwowar
I'm not sure if anyone is really publicizing their numbers but it would be interesting to know. There certainly aren't any real "savings" in the system yet. Paying APCs is an added cost to subscriptions/collections budgets and even when some hybrid journals refund the OA fee, that ends up cost-neutral. As for our subscriptions budgets, if our institutions were able to claw that money... more... - John Dupuis
And I did write about this very question: http://scienceblogs.com/confess... - John Dupuis
could be funders would lower allowable indirects to make sure the money is spent on research. there is leverage. - Heather Piwowar
You could compare the $$ value of APCs with the $$ value not paid on OA articles (green or gold) cited in researchers' reference lists. - Deborah Fitchett
There's a library-internal organizational issue as well that John (wisely) skates over a bit: there's a cadre of librarians whose JOB it is to allocate money for info. Just as they have been (with rare exceptions) signally unwilling to reallocate stuff-buying funds to author-side fee funds, they are not going to welcome the idea that their work is evaporating. So they won't want to hear about purported "savings." (I also agree with John that at this point savings are theoretical, not actual.) - RepoRat
There's one other issue that the OA movement as a whole needs to think harder about: "savings" = "no, really, we're NOT going to pay for journal subscriptions when stuff goes OA." Which is a thing the OA movement has been super-reluctant to say outright. Which I think is kinda disingenuous-verging-on-dishonest of us. - RepoRat
An interesting wrinkle from the Canadian perspective: the pot of money that the library budget comes from is largely provincial government funding + tuition, about 80/20 with variation among the provinces. The lion's share of government research funding would be tricouncil grants (SSHRC, CIHR, NSERC), which are the federal government. - John Dupuis
+1 RR. Though "savings" could also come from "we're way more willing to walk away from journal subscriptions unless they are lowered to a reasonable price" because their unique value is now lower. So partly from fewer journal subscriptions, partly from downward price pressure on subscription prices. - Heather Piwowar
John, thanks, I didn't know that about Canadian library funding. - Heather Piwowar
That being said, it'll be interesting to see what happens as we get past the OA tipping point and closer to the OA event horizon. When and how are we going to recognize that we can start drawing down on journal subscriptions and what is going to happen with that money? - John Dupuis
and what happens to the library and its staff, particularly in science libraries, when the wallet function is diminished? - RepoRat
the fewer papers that are only available by subscription (esp well-funded,correlated with high use, papers) , the worse the "pay per click" and "pay per paper you have access to" numbers are going to look. Publishers have been pushing these because they looked good in Big Deals as I understood it? But as more papers go out of that system, these numbers will start looking worse.... more... - Heather Piwowar
the problem, Heather, is that many of us have incentive NOT to push back, because our jobs depend on the current system. you know what they say about people understanding stuff their jobs depend on... - RepoRat
I know. And I hear you. I just don't know the solution. Is there anyone whose full time job is to increase transparency about journal prices? Could there be a person like that? Could be a uni/SPARC/etc researcher with this as their #1 focus? Who else could it be? Otherwise it is everyone's side project, but the "worthy opponent" is lots o people on publisher side dreaming up waysto spin numbers so they can sell for high prices. - Heather Piwowar
*shrug* at some libraries there are scholarly-communications librarians, but given the prevailing winds, they're often muzzled. they do what they can. - RepoRat
I don't know the history of SPARC, but it seems like librarians pulled together SPARC because they knew full-time, unmuzzled attention was needed on something that would (eventually) benefit everyone, is that right? So could it be a role in SPARC? Maybe a 2 year sloan-funded gig, to start with, to collect this data, consolidate it, maybe ideally start to put it in someone maintainable? feels like there should be a solution. I guess JISC funded is another possibility, but then not as NA relevant. - Heather Piwowar
suggest it to Heather? - RepoRat
yup. Except no. I don't have time, can't spare the focus. Which is everyone's problem. Which is one of the reasons we are where we are. <depressed><running away to go work on the things Im committed to work on while trying to care about fewer things><still depressed> - Heather Piwowar
hang in there. we're making progress. :) - RepoRat
"disingenuous-verging-on-dishonest of us" -- not it! I've been saying for years, in writing, in public, that OA would decimate profit margins in publishing simply by enabling real market competition. I think the tipping point for OA will come when that finally sinks in -- that the subscription model is a protection racket. - Bill Hooker
Nope, you're not it, Bill. :) But I know you know who is. - RepoRat
I think there are people in publishing who understand the potential very clearly and are engaging the battle on two fronts. First via sock puppets like KA who argue against OA. The second front is newer and perhaps riskier for them and that's the Alicia Wise "we love OA because APC dollars are potentially just as juicy as subscription dollars" strategy. No doubt kicked into high gear by that stock analyst report from a year or so ago. - John Dupuis
Tell a scientist that 3% -- or for that matter 0.6% -- of a funding agency's budget might be diverted away from directly funding researchers and that scientist will HOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWLLLLLLLLL. I have seen this happen. - RepoRat
Does anyone have the numbers handy on the total value of the journal subscription market? $4 billion seems to be a number at the top of my brain, but I could be totally wrong. - John Dupuis
Is there a known figure, rather than an estimate, for that total? U.S. academic libraries paid $1.253 billion in 2010 for electronic serials, but that's only a piece of the action. ($1,252,586,887, to be more "precise.") - Walt Crawford
Heather Piwowar
RT @lescarr: Steve Hall also sceptical of citation advantage and also any benefit from industry access to the literature. #openaccess @royalsociety
Unlike, actually. - Joe - Systems Analyst
Don't know who Steve Hall is, but let me guess: his income depends on subscription publishing. - Bill Hooker
I'd google, but I am guessing there are lots of Steve halls out there. - Joe - Systems Analyst
Anyone tell who this steve hall is? - Joe - Systems Analyst
Bill Hooker
NEW YORK, Feb. 25, 2013: Infectious Diseases Point of Care Diagnostics - Products, Players and Outlook to 2017 | PRNewswire | Rock Hill Herald Online - http://www.heraldonline.com/2013...
Tags: pointofcaretesting RPS - Bill Hooker
Bill Hooker
Double X Science - Science. It's the new black. - http://www.doublexscience.org/the-fin...
To pass the Finkbeiner test, a story about a female scientist cannot mention The fact that she’s a woman Her husband’s job Her child care arrangements How she nurtures her underlings How she was taken aback by the competitiveness in her field How she’s such a role model for other women How she’s the “first woman to…” Tags: sexism - Bill Hooker
Bill Hooker
Custom USB Flash Drives Imprinted with your Logo - http://www.flashbay.com
If you need to make schwag, I'm told these folks are honest and reliable. Tags: work schwag stuff - Bill Hooker
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