"Given that the concepts and realities of Darwinian evolution are still challenged, albeit rarely by biologists, a succinct briefing on why evolution by natural selection is an empirically validated principle is useful for people to have to hand. We offer here 15 examples published by Nature over the past decade or so to illustrate the breadth, depth and power of evolutionary thinking. We are happy to offer this resource freely and encourage its free dissemination."
- Michael Kuhn
After three rounds of referee comments and subsequent manuscript revision I get the comment: "we would like you to argue around the concept "you only find what you look for" in the discussion and conclusion". WTF, - in a scientific paper !!! What does that even mean ? Anyone have any ideas on how to respond to this ?
who's asking you to do this? the editors? as for what it means: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... – but that wouldn't be a positive thing to put in a paper. I don't know what your findings are, but perhaps you can argue "you only find what your method of detection could possibly find" like in the different methods of looking for protein complexes http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi...
- Michael Kuhn
Yes, it's the editors and the paper is a straightforward summary of prevalence of a Chlamydia trachomatis variant (nvC trachomatis). We were only looking for nvC and we found nvC. Finding specifically what we are looking for is kind of a cornerstone in diagnostics (specificity) as opposed to basic research, where you might want to find anything and everything. Nevertheless, like you say...
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- Nils Reinton
how about this pattern: "There are other mechanisms to cause X, for example, A, B, and C [REF]. However, our findings explain XX% of all cases and thus show that Y is an important mechanism in the etiology of X."
- Michael Kuhn
That would be ok if there were other "mechanisms to cause X", but here "X" is the presence of this bacteria. Our method is not in dispute, nor is the quality of that method, presumably then, it's agreed upon that our method explains 100% of the cases, and I still do not understand what the editors want from us. I would if this was a question of the specificity or sensitivity of the method, but even then the statement would make little sense to me.
- Nils Reinton
Nils, remember that reviewers comments, even editors, don't have to make sense. It sounds to me like they're trying to suggest that they wanted some discussion of sensitivity and specificity, so put that in there and say something like "Detection of other analytes, while of significant diagnostic utility, is beyond the scope of this method."
- Mr. Gunn
Mr Gunn FTW. I will just add that I have found some editors to be very responsive to questions like "what the fuck do you mean by this?" -- it might save you some time to ask them directly for a clarification. (Also that I am not in favour of jumping through meaningless hoops to satisfy an editor who *won't* give a reason for his/her requests. There are plenty of journals out there.)
- Bill Hooker
Thank you all for valuable advice. I will end up doing a combination of all of the above. I already sent an e-mail reply to ask for clarification, but have also started working in changes such as those suggested by Michael and Mr. dr. Gunn. This is for a national journal which was chosen to reach our clients as effectively as possible, - and it's open access :-) Collaborative studies on...
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- Nils Reinton
So after trying to work in something sensible into the manuscript, in frustration I ended up adding the following to two different sentences (one in the conclusions section and one in the discussion section): "..... emphasizing the point "you only find what you look for"". And....now the paper is approved. Not sure if I am sad or happy about this.
- Nils Reinton
Frustrating indeed. I recently abandoned a submission (only a letter to the editor) rather than jump through any more hoops. This is, unfortunately, not an option for anyone still in academia or anywhere else that papers are currency.
- Bill Hooker
Wow, it seems that Google has decided to censor out the interesting image
- Lars Juhl Jensen
When turning 180° later http://tinyurl.com/yh65ojc you can see that grandma was safe, and the truck has gone. So I guess, Google's staff stopped to help her
- Pierre Lindenbaum
Maybe the fire truck had nothing to with the accident. Maybe grandma saw the Google Street View car and go so excited that she fell on her bicycle ;-)
- Lars Juhl Jensen
@Pierre, thanks for the catch. I actually do get the correct data. The absence of bars seems to be a limitation of the Google Charts API and the max size of the chart image. If the X-axis is too long, the bars need to be thinner for it to fit into the plot area, and you can only go so thin and then loose readbility. Like I said - this is a quick hack :) Ideally I'd use matplotlib or R as the backend for plotting, but am lazy right now
- Rajarshi Guha
interesting, and very cool. One question/comment, does the Google Charts API by default adjust the image so that the x-axis crosses at a non-zero point on the y-axis? I'm sure that breaks one of Tufte's rules about misleading graphs...
- Andrew Su
@Andrew - yes. It took me a bit for me to realize that the count for the first year was not always zero! The Charts API does have a way to set the y range, but I'm going via the pygooglechart Python module which doesn't seem to support that.
- Rajarshi Guha
i was about the link to my pubmed trends tool, but i see it has already been done :) it is indeed slow -- a clunky php proof of concept really. (it has been especially slow today because apache filled itself with processes that were trying to do i'm not sure what...) http://www.cotch.net/assed...
- Joe Dunckley
Polymers are where the problem with assuming that chemistry is structure centric come home to roost of course. Nico Adams has been looking at developing ways of describing polymers effectively and it really isn't straightforward. The whole notion of substance, chemical, and structure get very very messy.
- Cameron Neylon
What is distressing is that someone added that initial obviously incorrect SMILES and it propagated easily to all those databases. As Tony has said many times curation is a big challenge in chemical databases.
- Jean-Claude Bradley
I'd say the cause of everyone blindly copying data, is that they are happy enough to be able to copy data at all... it all starts with Open Data and the right to fix things, and share those fixes...
- Egon Willighagen
I'm not sure that the reason people are copying data are because it's Open. PubChem continues to proliferate yet it is NOT Open. We've had this exchange before..PubChem is NOT Open data but I "judge" it gets copied because people treat it as an authority. It is not a good idea to treat PubCHem as an authority as it is a repository...non-curated and with no efforts underway to curate it...
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- Antony Williams
I agree that PubChem should not be treated as authoritative, but the big advantage it has over ChemSpider is that it can be downloaded and re-used.
- Michael Kuhn
I agree that people copying PubChem is indeed not because it is Open... that one is copied merely because it is free and confuse that with Open. That said, I love to see the day that there was a court ruling on that state of the PubChem data, which is at some places claimed to be Public Domain, something refering to the copyright being with the providers, while at other places... a bullet proof statement would be *very* useful indeed.
- Egon Willighagen
Michael - there is every intention to provide access to the ChemSpider structure collection in the near future. This will not include all associated information in a record as the associated information has mixed licensing but free to use.
- Antony Williams
ChemSpider and Wikipedia have the advantage that errors can be corrected. Are there mechanisms in place to correct errors in DrugBank, PubChem and the many other derivative databases?
- Jean-Claude Bradley
DrugBank: yes, David Wishart is said to be quite responsive to comments. Same for KEGG. PubChem: NO. They just aggregate tons of source databases, and you would have to hunt down the source and hope it makes it way downstream... Thus ChemSpider's annotation efforts are invaluable, and I would love to be able to re-use them
- Michael Kuhn
Michael...drop me an email at antonyDOTwilliamsATchemspiderDOTcom and let's discuss how you want to use information and what you need to get at and it might be an issue of simply pointing you to the right web services. Lots of people are using ChemSPider through web services at present. We'd love to help you
- Antony Williams
Nucl. Acids Res. (6 November 2009), gkp937. Over the last years, the publicly available knowledge on interactions between small molecules and proteins has been steadily increasing. To create a network of interactions, STITCH aims to integrate the data dispersed over the literature and various databases of biological pathways, drug-target relationships and binding affinities. In STITCH 2, the number of relevant interactions is increased by incorporation of BindingDB, PharmGKB and the Comparative Toxicogenomics Database. The resulting network can be explored interactively or used as the basis for large-scale analyses. To facilitate links to other chemical databases, we adopt InChIKeys that allow identification of chemicals with a short, checksum-like string. STITCH 2.0 connects proteins from 630 organisms to over 74 000 different chemicals, including 2200 drugs. STITCH can be accessed at http://stitch.embl.de/. 10.1093/nar/gkp937 Michael Kuhn, Damian Szklarczyk, Andrea Franceschini,...
- Neil Saunders
I didn't expect the paper to come out this quickly, I was quite surprised to see it in my feed reader on the weekend. I have now activated STITCH 2 as public website ... hope it's not too buggy :)
- Michael Kuhn
umm .. you are going to make me re-do some work :p
- Pedro Beltrao
@Michael - quick questions: I don't think I ever saw homology evidences in the drug-gene interactions. Do you guys avoid doing this or it is just not reported in the evidence info ?
- Pedro Beltrao
@Pedro: going from STITCH 1 to 2 will change the identifiers of proteins and chemicals, so check first if you run into trouble there
- Michael Kuhn
re transfer: if you are in human or mouse, you probably won't see so much transfer. but if you go to e.g. chimp, you'll see a lot of transferred evidence
- Michael Kuhn
Thanks to Pierre for finding this. Math Overflow (http://mathoverflow.net/) actually seems to work and has a community, but the listed sites have almost no audience (yet). Seems Ask Sci is slightly ahead, though.
- Michael Kuhn
@Jane: some of us in this room do think that StackOverflow-for-scientists would be a good idea, but please adhere to the guidelines of this room: "Try not to spam and if you are associated with a service (and most don't know that), please say so." – If you're associated w/ sciencestack, we'd love to have a discussion about how such a thing could actually work (or why MathOverflow seems to work, and asksci / sciencestack no [yet])
- Michael Kuhn
Isn't "science" too broad for this? Don't we need smaller units (i.e. chemoverflow, biostack?) Lots of the science questions are very general-sciencey.
- Matthew Todd
Despite the fact that sometimes good solution come from people in a different field I would agree with Matthew. More specific sides would reduce the noise for the majority of users.
- Konrad Förstner
Well, StackOverflow also has a huge range of topics. The problem with e.g. splitting chemistry and biology is that you then don't know where to put your biochemistry questions. ;) The tagging system (interesting / ignored tags) should help with that.
- Michael Kuhn
@Michael: Thanks for the notice. + for mentioning the tagging system! @All: Please direct your discussion and suggestions on Stack Overflow for scientists to http://friendfeed.com/science...
- Jane Breezler
Very sad, I saw Warren introduce an early version of PyMol, it was an excellent piece of software for a one man effort. The mailing list announcement is here: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin...
- Greg Tyrelle
Ah i see. Nothing on the google yet. He was relatively young too, wasn't he? Sad...
- Shirley Wu
from twhirl
I met him in August and he seemed fine! very depressing
- Rajarshi Guha
He wasn't much older than me and I knew him a bit back in my modeling days, so this really sucks
- Deepak Singh
Very, very sad. Today in my graduate course on RNA one of the students spent most of the class showing us images of the ribosome that he generated with PyMol. The first thing I introduce to the students in this course is how to use PyMol. This is truly a great loss to the community.
- Tom Tullius
so sad. I only interacted with Warren via email, but it was always a pleasure. I greatly admired his support of FOSS, and was inspired by his ground-breaking work in molecular visualization. such sad news.
- tim
So sad--young guy, met him at a conference about 2 years ago. Accomplished so much--his science and entrepreneurship was an inspiration to me.
- Mary Canady
Anyone else interested in helping continue the PyMol codebase?
- Donnie Berkholz
Donnie, certain hope that it doesn't go away
- Deepak Singh
Last I glanced at the PyMol codebase it was actually pretty scary. Sloccount says: Totals grouped by language (dominant language first): ansic: 477951 (85.93%) python: 65182 (11.72%) cpp: 12928 (2.32%)
- Anders Norgaard
I realize I might get slapped for this but with light comes shadow (very Jungian I know). The upside of Warren releasing code as Open Source is that his work can live on and be continued. This is brilliant. The shadow is what about about his young wife that he has left behind? I talked with Warren earlier this year and PyMol was helping him to create a living. But what does his family...
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- Antony Williams
"Here we investigate [...] interaction-specific or edge-specific ('edgetic') alterations." 'edgetic'? seriously? Looks like it has precedence, also by Marc Vidal: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed...
- Michael Kuhn
"Yesterday I [Guido van Rossum] attended a biweekly meeting of an informal a UC Berkeley group devoted to Python in science (Py4Science), organized by Fernando Perez."
- Michael Kuhn
errr - authors who give out their user details deserve what they get!
- Jo Badge
I'm not sure I've understood the implications of this, but isn't just like an account on any other service?
- AJCann
well, another option would be for journal submission systems to drop the requirement that only the corresponding author can submit. it should be enough to let the PI verify the submission.
- Michael Kuhn
they might have been aiming for January 2010, when the NAR db issue officially comes out
- Michael Kuhn
It makes sense, since the data they have on this database is part of paper that Boone talked about and that I assume is currently under review. Still .. annoying :)
- Pedro Beltrao
yep, I just got the email response back. They will remove the password protection when the other paper describing the data is published. Bummer :)
- Pedro Beltrao
"Here, we provide a detailed account of chronic alcohol intake by mammals as part of a coevolved relationship with a plant."
- Daniel Mietchen
"Therefore, we hypothesize that moderate to high alcohol intake was present early on in the evolution of these closely related [primate / human] lineages." :)
- Michael Kuhn
sent you a direct message w/ my email address
- Michael Kuhn
If anyone in Wave has spares can they also check the Life Scientists invite list? Drop me you're Wave address (I'm cameronneylon@googlewave.com) and I can add you
- Cameron Neylon
from twhirl
Khader or anyone nice, here's mine: ctt.journal at googlemail.com
- Claudia Koltzenburg
Khader, if you still have some, I am mikael dot huss at the same domain as Claudia above
- Mikael Huss
@ajcann ha!! Knew you couldn't last - are you ajcann? I'll attempt to add u to some stuff....
- Jo Badge
from iPod
Hi Khader. neil.swainston_AT_manchester.ac.uk if there are any spares. Thanks.
- Neil Swainston
For the public record, I didn't receive a Wave invite from Khader :-(
- Graham Steel
Graham, that was a too early announcement :|, usually wave takes a day or two to send the invitation. In Wave's own words "Invitations will not be sent immediately. We have a lot of stamps to lick. "
- Khader Shameer
"usually wave takes a day or two to send the invitation" I was not aware of that, thanks for pointing this out, Khader. Thank you kindly for sending out the invites...
- Graham Steel
I'll add myself to the list of the currently waveless: carlfulp AT gmail DOT com
- Carl Fulp
May as well add my name to the list of those left behind ! elbuono AT gmail DOT com
- Ian Simpson
from twhirl
still holding out - I know that if I get one of these, I'll get sucked into the Waveome and my thesis will soo *never* be done in time!
- 'Mummi' Thorisson
Got few more invites: added Ashish, Lucas, Andrew, Carl, Ian :)
- Khader Shameer
It's funny how just as for many Google == search, GReader == feed reader.
- Neil Saunders
yep. has anyone here tried Fever? http://feedafever.com/ For me GR is working fine, but I only have ~50 new items each day in my feeds. I'm guessing to take advantage of the "prioritizing" Fever does, you'd need more input (and be interested in more input)
- Michael Kuhn
I use Bloglines to follow about 200 blogs, mostly scholarly communication/OA/open science stuff. That's pretty much the limit though -- and many of those 200 are very infrequent posters. What I really want is a reader that has a "related" function like FF's.
- Bill Hooker
via @gruber: "Amazon CTO Werner Vogels on where Amazon’s new hosted MySQL Relational Database Service fits in with their other cloud storage services."
- Michael Kuhn
cool idea: a wedding gift w/ built-in GPS: it'll only open at a specific location, and it only tells you the distance to wherever that is
- Michael Kuhn
from Bookmarklet
Genius. "At one point a friend of the family, a charming gentleman from up the street, said to me with a thick accent, “You are — how you say in English? — a BASTARD!” That one comment made this whole project worthwhile."
- Bill Hooker
can't help you with that, but maybe you could ask directly Carsten Wiuf as he has all his articles in pdf on his site - http://www.daimi.au.dk/~wiuf/
- Andrej
in particular, I'm wondering how exhaustive the phenotyping for any given gene is. I.e.: If a phenotype is not listed, how high is the chance that it does occur but wasn't recorded?
- Michael Kuhn