It's not a bad idea but comes dangerously close to Spec work - Lindsey is Fierce!

I probably won't have time to do it today, but I think it would be a cool exercise... Besides, if you don't like it, suggest a solution, right? - Her Lindsay-ness

Well, it looks a hell of a lot better using this - http://beta.friendfeed.com/ajbatac... - so that's not a bad starting point for any new design. - Mark H

I agree Mark, I like AJ's version a lot better. But this is also an opportunity for all the graphic designers in the FF community to take a swing at this... maybe come up with something even more snazzy and quit bashing the stuff that's there. - Her Lindsay-ness

@Lindsey - you can look at it as spec work, or a chance to have a say in how something you love and use on a daily basis looks and feels. If the FF devs picked your design, even if you weren't paid for it, what awesome resume fodder!! - Her Lindsay-ness

Lindsay . . . that's what they all say. They're more than welcome to ask for my input if they are so inclined but I won't be making a mockup when they could just hire a better designer. http://www.no-spec.com/ - Lindsey is Fierce!

I guess I look at FF as more of a hobby than a job. I would probably do something for free if I had the time. Again, if it were used, it would be nice cred to point to and say "I designed that!". Portfolios are often built on pro-gratis or did-it-for-peanuts work. If you've already got a big profile with paid clients I can understand the no-spec thing, but for people who are building their portfolios it's a great opportunity. - Her Lindsay-ness

I like it how it is... This BETA-UI is great. - Ryo / Fuck Facebook

Spec work undermines the entire profession - Lindsey is Fierce!

That just doesn't make sense to me for people who aren't already fully established in the profession. How can you possibly get your name/work out there if you don't do any non-paid or cheap work to build your portfolio? - Her Lindsay-ness

There are plenty of ways Lindsay. Please read through the site I linked to. They have all the information on why Spec work is bad. - Lindsey is Fierce!

Spec work is evil. :( - Jason Shultz from twhirl

Ok, so maybe I shouldn't have said contract then... I had it more in my mind about doing it because I wanted to make FriendFeed better. Pro-bono or as the No-Spec site says "What is Pro Bono? Pro Bono is defined as providing a service without compensation. You donate your services for free or in some cases at a reduced fee that just covers basic expenses. Pro Bono is an excellent, ethical way to boost your portfolio." http://www.no-spec.com/working... I don't see anything wrong with volunteering. - Her Lindsay-ness

I admit I'm conflicted on the entire idea a bit Lindsay but overall it generally never benefits the designer. It's a hard lesson every designer has to learn. A lot of businesses use spec work because they just don't value true design. I don't get the impression the creators of FF value design either or they wouldn't have the design they do now. - Lindsey is Fierce!

By "the design they do now" do you mean the beta or the current site? I actually liked the minimalist, clean, bright design of the old site fine. Nothing really got in the way. I don't like the new one because it feels closed-in or maybe it seems very 2005... But I think they they probably spent a good bit less time focusing on that than on the functionality. Again, it's a lot easier to change the look and feel (replace images, tweak CSS) than fix the broken functionality (javascript and server side code). As a developer, I would be more concerned about releasing to beta something that worked the way I wanted it to instead of looked perfect. The look and feel is the icing on the cake... but there has to be a cake to ice. - Her Lindsay-ness

I'm referring to the beta. I don't have a problem with minimalism but all of their designs have lacked refinement. Just as you said, you're a developer you see more value in the development. I happen to see value in both. You have multiple employees so you can have both. I'm talking about UI design as well as Content Design. I don't think you value design as much as you should. A great design isn't just about gorgeous images and typography. It's about content layout, organization, and hierarchy to . . . - Lindsey is Fierce!

make the users' experience better. They can have both they just chose to only focus on one. This is teh 3rd iteration of FF, they've had plenty of time to work on the UI and overall layout. - Lindsey is Fierce!

I am a developer but I have been working on the UI side of development for most of my career and focused significantly on the workflow and the way information is organized and presented. But that's a different part of the development cycle than the graphic design (which I have also had occasion to work on). Information flow is the functionality of the site, not the look and feel. Both are necessary for good UX, but they can be done independently of each other for the most part (and integrated later). There's a difference in saying a site looks ugly and it's hard to navigate or use. There's a whole profession around Information Architecture that fits in between graphic design and development. In MOST cases one person doesn't handle all three aspects, but some people can. In this case I'm just talking about the look and feel. - Her Lindsay-ness

And my main points were that 1) this is a beta that is most likely about the functionality of the site because most of FF's staff are developers and not designers and 2) the graphic design portion could easily be changed in the beta if they got enough feedback. I don't think their focus has ever been on the look and feel but on providing functionality. The layout has changed several times, and will probably continue to do so if they get feedback. Maybe they should consider hiring an IA or HCI person. - Her Lindsay-ness

My point is if they didn't care about the look and feel then why change it at all? If they aren't designers then they should hire one. If it can easily be changed why is this the 3rd look we've seen without a designer's work? My second point is, they don't value design (it's obvious) so why should I create a mockup with my expertise for someone who won't value it? - Lindsey is Fierce!

Who says they don't care about it? I know a lot of developers (in fact most developers I know) don't have graphic design skills but that doesn't mean they don't care about how their app looks. And yes, most development shops do have a designer on staff to handle that aspect since devs usually aren't skilled in it. But FF is a small house and maybe, just maybe, they don't have a budget for that yet so they're doing the best they can in the mean time. And I don't think that you would be the right person to do it for them simply because you seem to be so antagonistic about them not caring for design. I can see it from the point of view of a bunch of devs trying their best to put out something that WORKS and works well for people who have ascribed many different purposes to the application than they originally intended it for and that's a tough job. Cut them a break. And since there's such a good community here that LOVES what they give us, I don't think it's asking a lot to offer some free time to make - Her Lindsay-ness

... to make the product you use better. It is free, after all. Bleh... whatever... nevermind. Seems like every time I've tried to come back online lately I just end up in an argument. - Her Lindsay-ness

I liked your suggestion, Lindsay. Free submissions seem to be more socially acceptable for software developers than they are for designers, so you might never win them over. - Daniel J. Pritchett

I never said I was the right person for it. My design skills are suited to different types of websites. I'm antagonistic because I've seen it too often. By the 3rd design you can clearly see it's not a priority of theirs. You suggested graphically-oriented people make a mockup, I'm just telling you why I won't. I wonder if this situation were reversed and they had a gorgeous design with a good set of core features, how many developers would dedicate their coding skills for free to help them extend those features. I'm guessing not too many. - Lindsey is Fierce!

Coders do that ALL THE TIME. Look at AJ Batac's plugin today and Benjamin Golub's mobile version... Did anyone pay them to do that? You give a programmer an API and a core functionality that he loves and you'll get free extensions out of them. Then they get a reputation for interesting work and get more paid work out of it. It's part of the job... it's part of being a good developer. - Her Lindsay-ness

Lindsay, a small point about Ben -- it's great he was recognized for his work, but other developers like Carter Rabasa (http://www.cubanlinks.org, http://friendfeed.com/cubanli...) has written several FriendFeed and Disqus enhancements that were eventually replicated by the respective businesses without any credit to him. - Phil G

+1 Phil. At least Carter gets a few mentions from other FFers like us. - Daniel J. Pritchett

I know Phil... that's a "danger" you face... but you can still point to "I did it first and they copied it from me" and it still promotes you. And as a developer you learn from writing that code and build stuff you can reuse on other projects. It's never a wasted effort. - Her Lindsay-ness

Ok, point there. Still, the glory is nice too, sometimes. - Phil G

I'll give you a small point Lindsay but honestly this argument could go on forever. Another reason mockups aren't always the best for design is because design work relies heavily on the dialogue between the client and the designer. You can't expect to have the best design you can without having a conversation with the client. You need to ascertain their problems so you can figure out how to solve them properly - Lindsey is Fierce!

And yes, I appreciate the guys who haven't "hit the big time" in recognition like Carter and directeur and Hao. But you do it because you love it and you want to give back to something you use and enjoy. - Her Lindsay-ness

IIRC Louis Gray claimed some influence on Ben's hiring, too. It might help to A) live in the area and B) get a top user who is also a respected blogger to put in a good word. - Daniel J. Pritchett

@Lindsey - yes those discussions are crucial to being successful on a project. But in this case, you know exactly what the business needs are... you're a user of FF for (I'm guessing) probably close to a year now... Other than for features they haven't released that are in the planning stages you know what FF does and what would make it look better. There's no better person to help make the product better than someone who uses it every day and is intimately familiar with everything it does. - Her Lindsay-ness

I thought you said I wasn't the right person for the job? :P Ok ok . . . I kid I kid - Lindsey is Fierce!

LOL! Well, you COULD be! ;) - Her Lindsay-ness

Just for you so I can put up or shut up ;) http://friendfeed.com/e... - Lindsey is Fierce!

http://beta.friendfeed.com/minimag... - MiniMage, sheeple of FF

Very well done Lindsey, thanks so much for taking the time to mock that up and share it with us. - Daniel J. Pritchett

Can you add service icons, maybe as a small overlay in the bottom right of the avatar or something, to your mockup? I think it would really help make the oint about what's missing with those indicators gone. - Mr. Gunn

Can anyone recommend a good mechanic that does spec? - Glen Group