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Bob Sonin › Comments
Arrington doesn't understand how FriendFeed connects to Twitter. It *is* a Twitter client. FF wishes that wasn't necessary but it is.
heri, Lora Lufark, Boris Gordon and 9 other people liked this
Oh, I think FF knows it is. That's why the "send to Twitter" check box is on by default. It's just a superior client in every way.
- Chrimmus Tad
But it won't always be.
- Matthew DeVries
it's a twitter client 95%
- Bob Sonin
FF as a twitter client? not for me: twitter is a client to my friendfeed platform. how can I skip twitter entirely? I want 'post to facebook' pipe (too).
- jacek
@jacek, just link up twitter to facebook, and then your comments on FF will appear on twitter, and will then in turn appear on facebook.
- Jordan Brock
Mixed reactions to FriendFeed overhaul - http://news.cnet.com/8301-17...
Enrique Gutierrez, Kyle Judkins, lolise and 10 other people liked this
it's a mess?
- Bob Sonin
Mess? It's a beta, it's not going to be perfect. ;-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Their a mess.
- Mathew™ one of a kind
I keep switching back and forth from the original to the beta. Trying to get a grip on it.
- Mattb4rd
I think the beta has some great ideas in it functionally. Hate the displaying avatars thing, though, and hate the colors.
- Laura Norvig
I like the beta for the most part. Need to ditch the gray, at least.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Laura: Hide avatars in feed with this "user style": http://userstyles.org/styles... At your service. :)
- Meryn Stol
I guess I'll have to get used to it. But on the whole I think it's less intuitive than the old version, which is not good for newcomers. And at the least I'd like service icons and filtering by them back.
- Araceli
I love it. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Laura: also try Cleaner FriendFeed: http://userstyles.org/styles...
- Meryn Stol
I dont know.. The new interface rocks with that userstyles addon from AJ Batec http://userstyles.org/users...
- Kyle Weller
damn was a little late on that one
- Kyle Weller
Hmm, good call Araceli - that is a feature I use quite frequently. I don't like losing that. Disconcerting.
- Laura Norvig
Thanks, Meryn, I installed the avatar remover. Much better.
- Laura Norvig
Does Palm Pre have a chance against iPhone? IMO: No, but it might not matter - http://scobleizer.com/2009...
Olivier Castets, Bruce Lewis, Parth Awasthi and 26 other people liked this
agree totally, Apple seemed a little behind the developers at first but are now providing them with so much. The one thing that steered me from the iphone to start was the missing mms etc, but the experience of using the phone more than makes up for it. Now with 3.0 filling a lot of gaps, and potential of new device... they've got one hell of a phone/pda/entertainment device.
- Matt Randles
If Palm has made one mistake with the Pre rollout, it's failing to realize how fickle and FUDdy the tech press can be. You'd think they'd have learned their lesson after the beating they took over Foleo, only to see an entire market segment (netbooks) emerge around that form factor/use case within a year or so. The only thing that's changed since CES is Apple announced cut-and-paste and some other incremental updates yet the Pre buzz is already waning.
- Ken Sheppardson
I don't want to change from Verizon to AT&T so the Palm Pre is interesting ot me. I know there are others like me
- Marion Vermazen
I agree that Palm won't knock off Apple from their throne. But will easily beat out many of the also rans who have squandered their positions. Palm gained massive market share in the PDA and early smart phone space because they understood useability. I think this fundamental understanding is showing through in the Pre (at least from what we can see in the videos). In addition, Palm was...
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- Joe Brinkman
Agreed with @Joe, Palm has still nostalgic developers that can't wait to have another Palm in the palm of their hand. A decent one, the Pre, probably. Moreover the application development model will be SO easy that almost immediately, Pre could benefit of most of the must-have social/web/communication apps...
- Jean-Charles VERDIE
Palm doesn't stand a chance against Apple in this - the iPhone is ridiculously sticky- i.e. there's a huge switching cost, and of course there is all the media - including games. Everyone seemed to forget that Apple didn't just close their R&D facilities. I think Android is really Palm's biggest problem - because 'everyone else' is going to end up using it, and so there'll be a bunch of free with contract Android phones before too long. Where is Palm's opportunity in this?
- Robin Barooah
By the way, you don't have to knock the iPhone off it's "throne" to have a chance against it. Garter says in 4Q08 iPhone's 10.7% smartphone market share is fourth behind Symbian (47.1%), RIM (19.5%), and Windows Mobile (12.4%). If Palm can flip, say, 1 in 7 Symbian, Rim and Win users and not a single iPhone user, they still knock iPhone out of fourth. http://blog.symbian.org/2009...
- Ken Sheppardson
Maybe I'm mistaken, but isn't the Pre exclusive to Sprint? Second point, they're abandoning their base of developers. I personally know someone with a rather large Palm application that could take a very long time to rewrite and migrate. It's too bad they don't have a way to port/recompile existing apps for the new device.
- Rob Fahrni
@Ken - Does just running symbian count as being a smartphone somehow? I had a Nokia N70 before my iPhone, which ran Symbian, was very featureful and had PIM apps etc, so would probably count in these kinds of figures, but the reality was that trying to use those features via a phone keypad simply didn't compare and as a phone it was worse than my old 2110. How many actually usable smartphones are running Symbian and WinMo - vs traditional handsets that happen to be powered by these OSs?
- Robin Barooah
A lot of doctors use the Palm Treo because there are good medical apps for it, so as those wear out it will be interesting to see if they go for the Palm Pre or the iPhone. I still miss the old Palm V as a PDA though, that was a great gadget.
- Sally Church
i think you need to ask will Palm Pre knock Microsoft OS's out of the picture for some? Will HTC have to step it up as some have suspected they are with a new phone coming out?
- Uncle CW™
Another way of looking at it is - I use my iPhone all the time, and yet I only make about one phone call every other day - I don't even have the phone app on the dock anymore. I think that's the world these devices have to compete in.
- Robin Barooah
@Robin - I'd say that it's a smartphone, by virtue of running Symbian OS, or at least in the sense that it's pretty open as far as mobile phones go (or at least it's the "most open" phone I've had, in terms of being able to install 3rd party applications and Multimedia Framework plug-ins, and to an extent replace some native ones (Opera comes to mind), not to mention being able to move almost all data freely to and from it) although I'm biased (not that I want other platforms to fail, of course)...
- Tyson Key
I'd say that the Pre still has a good chance in the market, assuming that Palm manage to advertise it right for the not-as-tech savvy folks, as Apple have done with the iPhone. Still, they should keep the power-users in mind, too.
- Tyson Key
Several things weigh against Pre, not the least of which is that you can't buy one. Palm is taking a drubbing in its sales while all the focus is on an intangible. The quality appears to be there but again mass production and this climate could present issues. Finally, this is G3 vs. G1 so it has to be more buggy and less tested. Pre would have to seduce me to make me lose my iPhonaphillia.
- Phil Boiarski
Robert, you are very brave (IMO foolish) to predict Android will run a long second to iPhone. The Apple app market is saturated and devs are sick of it. Real smart phone users will gravitate to Android and when some handsets finally come on to the market it will make Apple's 20 million phone sales look relatively puny.
- Bob Sonin
I hope Palm has long term plans. If they put all their marbles on the Pre and it fails, they're done.
- Rodfather
I think Google is building their foundation right now. I expect very big things from them in the future both on Android and other Social platforms they're building. Never underestimate Google.
- Jesse Stay
Don't forget the huge demographic of frustrated Windows Mobile users who aren't waiting for WM6.5/WM7 to come out. Combine that with legacy users who still wax nostalgic about their old Palm/Handspring PDAs (see above, myself included) and I see big things for Palm IF they can get the Pre out before the next iPhone.
- Jericho
The smartphone market has to be at least 4 x the PC market - a computer in every pocket, and a computer that is also a fashion accessory. There must be room for more than a couple of players. Palm need to focus on stabilizing the company and delivering the best experience they can with the Pre.
- Shauns
Robin: I was just using Gartner's definition of smartphone and market share numbers. I think IDC doesn't include Symbian, but the other numbers and proportions still hold. iPhone is at best third behind Blackberry and Windows Mobile. IMHO the Pre has the potential to plop down in the middle of the market and while it may win over an iPhone user or two I think it's more likely to appeal to the RIM/WinMo user...or the folks who have held off from jumping into the smartphone market.
- Ken Sheppardson
I agree that its going to be daunting for Palm to woo people to move to Sprint. But having seen the development model (video on youtube) It seems like Palm really has got it right! Html+CSS to create your apps! Though its at risk of alienating its current developer base, aquiring new developer base is pretty trivial!
- Dilip Krishnan
Good to see Palm becoming relevant once again.
- Mike Seidle
Why is FriendFeed becoming such a bummer?
Kyle Weller, Shayanlinux, Bob Sonin and 4 other people liked this
Examples?
- Johnny Worthington
People caught up with other things? The economy, jobs, other ventures, etc.?
- Derrick
Friendfeed is what you make it :D
- Bec Rowe @d0tski
This seems to be a popular meme lately, what's not as good about it these days?
- Ted Roden
This is what I'm doing with it. I don't think it's a bummer. http://friendfeed.com/joshhal...
- Josh Haley
Mark Wilson leaving FFundercats was a bummer.
- Pete Delucchi
The quality of my FF stream is just as high as ever.
- Chrimmus Tad
OK, true.
- Josh Haley
The Twitter / Facebook cyclone has ambushed their opportunity set, how do they get more relevant when their best features are being usurped? A loyal bunch doesn't transcend, yet.
- Bob Sonin
Bob... that assumes FF is trying to be a Facebook or Twitter, which is not the case. It takes a long time to be an overnight success.
- Johnny Worthington
FF was at its most frenetic through the US elections; that pace could never be sustained. I find that the open and intelligent FF conversation surpasses anything FB or twitter provides.
- Mel Buckpitt
I'm not bummed. I agree with @d0tski: "It is what you make it." I think the feeling of malaise that some feel has several reasons: 1) FB and TT are constantly mentioned in the broader media, and are growing like wildfire, while FF doesn't SEEM as hot; 2) A lot of the most prolific contributors have scaled back or dropped off (for many reasons, including possibly posting to the point of burnout) and 3) Spring is coming, and people—who still have jobs and who don't—are spending more time offline. 2 cents
- .LAG liked that
...like i said in a similar thread somewhere, i think it's important to not fall in love with online services, they are ephemeral by their nature. think about favorite bulletin boards, forums, chatrooms, MetaFilters, WELLs, UseNet newsgroups that have come and gone in popularity. hopefully, along the way, you'll meet some online voices who you'll interact with on the next new service, but these services, these online communities, they rise, they fall, they unplug, they die and are replaced by the next thing
- .LAG liked that
um, I think friendfeed has the best conversations and the most interesting people than any other service
- Kyle Weller
AllTop's Custom Pages Finally Tip Me to Using the Product - http://www.louisgray.com/live...
Daniel Brusilovsky, Charlie Anzman, Lu Tao and 20 other people liked this
Meh. For me, it's just another page to maintain and visit. I still prefer google reader as it's easier to use and has the ability to share, star, e-mail, tag, etc.
- Matt Soreco
i like the interface because you can scan your favorite blogs very quickly on the same page
- Vishy
Matt, one thing I believe it does for me is show my "favorite" feeds, if there is such a thing. Forget a blogroll. I can post up the feeds and people I read most often in one place.
- Louis Gray
alltop is embarassing
- Bob Sonin
If we were able to add our our feeds then it might be useful. But to only be bale to select what is already on Alltop is good but not totally ideal. But a good service nonetheless. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Was gonna do a post ... Copped a quick comment on yours instead :)
- Charlie Anzman
Some thoughts on being an 'underwater' home owner and walking out on a mortgage - http://www.25hoursaday.com/weblog...
Private Sanjeev, Ho John Lee, Karim and 9 other people liked this
You are under no moral obligation to pay off your mortgage. The deal is if you can't pay they'll take your house and all your principle. They made the loan based on their assessment of the value. That's their risk. If they were wrong about the value of the home that should be their problem as that's what free markets are all about.
- Todd Hoff
Right; no moral obligation. Especially since more than 8 million families are doing the same. And the longer that people string things out, the bankers keep making their bonuses and kicking the can down the road. The quicker everyone walks away, the quicker prices will correct, and people can buy again at more reasonable prices.
- Joshua Allen
from fftogo
Ask your current mortgage holder to produce the original document, not a copy. If they can't, you need to immediately consult with your attorney for an opinion, but I believe you are under no obligation. Also, sell 1//10 of 1% of the property to some one; this resets the foreclosure clock.
- MVB (Grinch of FF)
Some caveats, though. A foreclosure *may* impact credit record for more than 7 years. Also, it (AFAIK) wipes out any personal savings you have, which could be risky. So I think it amounts to a tradeoff between a $50k loss in the future and potential risk in short term. And of course, you would want to verify that rents have fallen suitably before walking :-) IMO, bellevue rents are nowhere near bottom.
- Joshua Allen
from fftogo
Well, the bankers make be making bonuses, but the reality is, given current circumstances, you would be socializing your losses and spreading it onto everyone else. One could make an argument as to people who can't afford their mortgages being assisted by society, but people who can afford to make payments? I do think it is an area of gray. Allowing a preventable foreclosure to happen also drives down properly values for neighbors as well, yielding a sort of prisoners dilemma with respect to getting out.
- Ray Cromwell
However, it's easy for me to speak from my position (currently not underwater), and I understand the school issue, my son is 4yrs old now, and I want to move to Cupertino or some other district by the time he is ready for kindergarten.
- Ray Cromwell
The reality is that's the deal and that's what you are morally obligated to live up to. The bailouts are all other people's decisions, not yours, and you are not responsible for their choices. There are no preventable foreclosures. You could have a billion in the bank and walk away because the house is the collateral.
- Todd Hoff
"It may come to the point of having to sue them to get them to take the house back,"
- Gabe
Todd's right. Nobody held hands in front of a preacher and promised to "pay mortgage till death do us part"; it's silly to talk about morals here. The economy cannot begin recovery until it is deleveraged, and everyone's housing values will take a beating whether now or later. Blaming the victim is great for the class-warfare Santelli's of the world, but is ultimately is impotent to...
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- Joshua Allen
Joshua, is your comment supposed to say "is impotent to save your house"? I was thinking 'important' was possibly the correct word.
- Gabe
@Gabe, I think "impotent" was correct, as in "Blaming the victim can't save your house value anyway."
- Ruchira S. Datta
if your home is in a half decent area it will recover/hold it's value; it is a false economy to think you will save in the intervening period, you won't, with the costs of moving, the pain in the ass factor, and the risks around rents and sale prices you won't be ahead not to mention the bust to your credit standing, probably for good
- Bob Sonin
Bob, home values in 2006/2007 were historically overvalued due to cheap credit and it is wishful thinking to believe that home prices will get back to that level in the near to medium term. However you're right that the current drop in home prices (about 10% - 15%) isn't enough to make up losing the tax breaks or taking the hit to the credit worth it. If we see a 25% - 35% drop in our area then I'll be singing a different song.
- Dare Obasanjo
If it gets to that point, I will try the 'produce the note' strategy, but I did consult a real estate attorney. The mortgage holder can present a copy (even an electronic copy) to a judge to be granted a waver. It's a common practice in contract law.
- Greg Guitarbuster
What should be the first book on my Amazon Kindle?
rowlikeagirl, Patricia F. Anderson, Dutch Driver and 28 other people liked this
Kindle for Dummies
- Jim Addz No Value
what about something you could read to milan?
- Allen Stern
Ender's Game
- Franklin Pettit
Allen: that sounds good, any suggestions?
- Robert Scoble
how about "Naked Conversations?"
- imabonehead
Anathem
- Chrimmus Tad
A walk in the woods (edited)
- Uncle CW™
I wanted to do "Team of Rivals" because I have the hardcover and it's too heavy to carry around at sxsw.
- Tom
cat in the hat? i have no idea!
- Allen Stern
Max Quick Book 1: The Pocket and the Pendant : http://tinyurl.com/cchv2z (granted I am biased :) )
- Mark Jeffrey
Since we're all in the same "noisy" boat, I say "Wordy Shipmates", Sarah Vowell.
- Chad Fjelland
I'd say my books, but I can't convince either HappyAbout or O'Reilly to publish my books on the Kindle :-(
- Jesse Stay
Zen and the Art of Motorcyle Maintenance - just finished it and loved it.
- Damien Franco
@Robert: Can you embed links in ebooks for Kindle? If so, you should write one: "Scobleized: the Best of Scoble. Interviews in Tech 2000-2010" and cover the cover with names.
- Ed Shahzade /NextInstinct
"Where the Wild Things Are". For your little one.
- Josh Haley
A Briefer History of Time, read it to Milan. ;)
- xero
Something by Peter Drucker, especially since your on the business side of things. He'll turn your world upside down and then in and out.
- Stephen Pickering
Wow, I haven't had my old Kindle for a year but this one has all my old books on it. Awesome!
- Robert Scoble
Fast Track Photographer by Dane Sanders, it's a quick read. He makes some amazing points about branding that are applicable to other industries too.
- Meredith Williams
Outliers. If you haven't read it. Otherwise, might I recommend Dune?
- Mike Nayyar
Confessions of an Advertising Man by Ogilvy. It's a fun, quick & informative read that's still relevant.
- barce
A People's History of FriendFeed by Howard Zinn. That'll totally blow your mind.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Twilight? LOL!
- Meema Esguerra
"The Art of Computer Programming," Volumes 1-4.
- imabonehead
Ezra Pound's "Cantos"
- Mistletoe Glen
imabonehead, those books are so dense, it'll require two Kindles.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Two Kindles?! Perfect! One for each hand! Double the reading.
- imabonehead
The Bible of course.
- Dale Harper
Heh, I love the suggestions for the Bible when Robert is technically Muslim. ;)
- xero
Goodnight Moon is a good one for reading to your child I think - or at least my daughter loved it from very young. Grown-up choice - Tender Is The Night.
- Patrick Jordan
from BuddyFeed
The bible was actually the second book on my Kindle, and I'm an atheist.
- Nine
three books you should read (take your pick) [http://friendfeed.com/e...]
- MikeAmundsen
Farenheit 451.
- Martha
First ebook i read was on my Newton 100 (110?). Heart of Darkness.
- Hayes Haugen
The Kindle Manuel. Well I hope its on the Kindle. If they printed it out then I would wonder how much they believe in their product.
- Uncle CW™
Alvin Toffler's "The Third Wave"
- Keith - @tsudo
for Milan - Beatrix Potter tales. For you, Iain Banks' Use of Weapons. Great book and only $1 right now!
- neil roseman
Enders Excile
- Christian Burns
Dune
- J. Abdul-Qahhar
The Art of War by Sun Tzu
- Jennifer
How I wasted 2008 (and the early part of 2009) by Robert Scoble
- Bob Sonin
I get my Kindle tomorrow and my first book is ordered: "The Pardoner's Tale" by Morgan Ferdinand (AKA "Nine"). Next up: the Bible (King James of course) and Shakespeare. Essential classics. And yes, I'm an atheist. Maybe also "UR" - the book written for Kindle by Stephen King, about an e-reader.
- m9m, Crone of FriendFeed
For the language of course. And because it's the version everyone quotes from. Rumor has it that Shakespeare contributed to it; the editors hired poets to rewrite "Psalms."
- m9m, Crone of FriendFeed
I guess I'd say Eastern Standard Tribe, but that's becuase I selected it for a bookclub http://kindlebookclub.mobi/
- Bastard Operator From FF
"How To Become Rich Enough To Own A Kindle"
- ::Kristen::
The Way of the Peaceful Warrior
- Stephen Grant-Jones
The Groundswell
- Spyros Papaspyropoulos
from twhirl
The Lord of the Rings
- Michael Fidler
The Autobiography of Malcolm X. He assassinated on February 21, 1965. R.I.P.
- Mikael Pittam
from twhirl
I'm trying to read 'Snowcrash' on the iPhone. It's not working out well. May have to grab a Kindle :p
- Rodfather
Janet and John..being the 1st
- Terry Jones
I'd vote for Harry Potter, but you've probably already gotten your 1st book :)
- Phil G
1984, George Orwell. Becoming more topical by the day.
- Henk de Kruyff
from twhirl
Harry Potter is not available for the Kindle
- Mistletoe Glen
Well, make sure it is nothing from Mr. Roy Blount Jr. as he just penned on op-ed in the NYT about Kindle 2 not paying for audio rights. o_O
- coldbrew
How to use Social Networking by Robert Scoble lol
- Rob Cairns
Shel Silverstein's "The Giving Tree" to read to Milan (beyond the story, no trees were cut down for the Kindle format?)
- Maryam
maryam - that was my mothers book to me
- Allen Stern
How are the illustrations in the Silverstein book(s) on the Kindle? My son loved his books - still does (and he's 25).
- Brian Sullivan
Allen, it's especially beautiful then :)
- Maryam
"The Book Thief" was a great book. Read it on my Kindle v1.
- Daniel Norton
Farenheit 451 :)
- Steve Lynch
from twhirl
Looked for Ender's Game (was suggested by another as well as in here) - but it's not available!
- James Hull
facebook by Mark Zuckerberg
- sofarsoShawn
The Kama Sutra
- Derrick
I am sure this was said but Naked Conversations.
- Steve Rubel
Your Childhood Favorite
- bcultral
Finishing Brian Tracy, How to Master Your Time (audio) - do good confirmations
- Daniele Beta
13 Things That Don't Make Sense
- E.P. Scott
would be nostalgic to have in your collection: neuromancer, pattern recognition, best of 2600, art of war, and frank herbert's dune (if any of these are available for the kindle)
- sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq
The Republic by Plato Allan Bloom Trans.
- sofarsoShawn
I was going to tell you to read my book, "Foundation and Endowment Investing", but I don't even know if it's available on the Kindle yet.
- Cathleen Rittereiser
Paris Hilton Confessions of an Heiress ~ changed my life fornever
- sofarsoShawn
a book against DRM....
- Terry O'Fee
"Foster Mom," by Francine Hardaway, so you learn something else about me:-)
- Francine Hardaway
"Walden" ;)
- Steve Isaacs
heh, Steve
- Kamilah Gill
One of the Common Craft "In Plain English" books.
- Nate Pilling
from twhirl
"Grown Up Digital" by Don Tapscott: http://bit.ly/xw3AU - an excellent book about the social ramifications of the web and modern technology on society
- Nathan Chase
Farenheit 451 - the classic about book burning
- Chris Loft
Find "Steal this Book" on BitTorrent and have the Kindle read it to you aloud.
- Ken Sheppardson
"Catch 22" or "On Bullshit" by Frankfurt
- Hayk H.
Never Eat Alone by Keith Ferrazzi
- Melvin Ram
kylehase: the cool thing is that my Kindle came with several books loaded on it from my first Kindle. I am buying a bunch of books, though, based on this thread. Thanks!
- Robert Scoble
Who thinks Scoble dominates the "best of day" (and beyond) for Friendfeed? I do.
Morton Fox, Jeff P. Henderson, cathycracks and 36 other people liked this
Provocative, thought-inducing posts + comments combined with thousands of followers. Yup.
- Hutch Carpenter
Always tons of comments / likes because it's generally great content/insight
- andy brudtkuhl
I'm glad he leverages his giant Twitterbase to create conversations on FriendFeed. It's usually more fun than a blog post!
- Daniel J. Pritchett
Without a doubt. I'm glad someone is able to instigate so much discussion.
- coldbrew
I look at best of the day and I only see one or two items from me. That's hardly domination.
- Robert Scoble
Way to get yourself up on the best of day Jeremiah: http://friendfeed.com/e...
- Hutch Carpenter
Scoble is on 6 of my best of day feeds. Not two.
- Jeremiah Owyang
3 for me
- Hutch Carpenter
Mona N. dominates my best of day just as much as Robert does, currently.
- Alex Scoble
Well Chris - I like your contributions too, even if you think I live in an odd part of (non) San Francisco.
- Hutch Carpenter
Jeremiah: that's because you have 268 friends and are VERY heavy on geeks and techies. Those people participate in my items a lot more than, say, Alex's friends do. Remember, Best of Day is different for everyone and is based on your friends and what they are engaging with.
- Robert Scoble
I'm just razzing you Chris. You know, one of these days we should subscribe to one another. But let's not be hasty.
- Hutch Carpenter
It's what Robert says plus a very good reason: he is very good at what he does and is appreciated as such
- Alexandros Georgiadis
If you (generic) aren't happy with the content you see, or don't see, on Friendfeed, then change/add people to whom you are subscribed, or look at what you are and are not filtering. Also, take a look at FFholic.com; look at who is most active instead of who has the most followers.
- MVB (Grinch of FF)
That makes more sense Robert.
- Jeremiah Owyang
Scoble is only on my "Best of" twice ... same as Owyang.
- Beebo Wallace
Right now I have two items from Scoble and two from Jeremiah (because Scoble commented on them ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
I miss a lot on Twitter with just @scoblelite Mostly it's noise, however.
- A Mitchell
just two Scobles for me - but one of the best things I did was to take R. Scoble and a few other hyper-FF users out of my FF homefeed and into their own group (sorry Robert - just had to be done). I get to see more interesting stuff now than every before and FF doesn't feel quite as cliquey anymore
- Frederic
Frederic: that's how I'd use friendfeed. I suggest creating a list called "noisy assholes" and putting me on it. There is SOME value to my like feed ( http://www.friendfeed.com/scoblei... ) but it can overwhelm other people, so should be kept separate until you figure out whether or not you are getting any value from it.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, quit calling yourself an a-hole!! Noisy, we all can be but an a-hole you are most certainly not!! >:(
- Mona Nomura
Robert - absolutely - lists are probably one of the most underused features on FF (wouldn't call you a noisy asshole, btw - you just produce a hell of a lot of content on any given day - and that's a good thing :)
- Frederic
Mona: thanks, very kind of you, but being an asshole is memorable. I saw the guy who runs http://radio3.cbc.ca/ talking about how they want to build an even crappier website at Northern Voice on Saturday. I thought that's funny because it's a very cool website. Then it hit me that I've been thinking about his speech for the past three days. By saying they do a crappy job I've been arguing with him in my mind for three whole days! :-)
- Robert Scoble
I think Scoble pays $1000 / day to be on that list (just teasing)
- Bastard Operator From FF
Sean: it costs more than that! :-)
- Robert Scoble
Scoble: I was shocked this was 10 hours old and no one took that shot.. I had to, it's too easy
- Bastard Operator From FF
Robert, I thought you were going to be spending less time on these services, or have you found a way to turn it into an income earning activity
- Bob Sonin
Intresting thing about that. Scoble dominates YOUR Best of Day. Mine, not so much. The Best Of Day feature is soley for your feed and those you choose to subscribe to. Also to, Scoble doesn't really dominate it, the poeple who comment and participate in the discussions he sparks cause it to be so.
- Johnny Worthington
Bob: I was hardly on the past five days. And "maybe." :-)
- Robert Scoble
Not usually, I usually see a lot more of other people's stuff.
- Mathew™ one of a kind
@Robert: I could tell you weren't active (actually posted about it). That says a lot about you as a person and about the power of FOAF.
- AJ Kohn
Blame Scoble --- scoblefeed! :) I like Robert so I don't complain, but yes he's HUGE Louie!
- Susan Beebe
In the last few days, I've noticed that personal items (stuff from real friend with few followers) were in higher place in my "best of".
- Jérôme Flipo
I've actually not got a lot of Scoble in my best of week.
- Chris Nixon
In it's current form, Friendfeed is too complicated to go mainstream. I see this as an early adopter tool, or for the hard core social folks.
Mitchell Tsai, zeroinfluencer, Franklin Pettit and 97 other people liked this
Yet Facebook and AOL-Bebo are pursuing a lot of what makes FriendFeed tick
- Hutch Carpenter
I have to agree a bit... It can be a bit much for some folk ;)
- Cheryl Allin
thanks for sharing that insight!
- Allen Stern
Its may also cause a data overload even though you follow 10 if it goes mainstream, so it better not :=)
- Yunus Tunak
Of course he posts this right as I try and jump back into FF and just found the 'real time' link, LOL
- Cheryl Allin
from twhirl
Totally agree.
- JonathanJoseph
Facebook is more complicated and has more features. So, explain why that's not too complicated to go mainstream?
- Robert Scoble
GUI.
- Mona Nomura
@Robert Facebook connects you to your friends. That is a basic need. Friendfeed connects you to content, not interesting for many (non-tech) people ;-)
- Alexander van Elsas
Facebook was not that complicated when it was gone mainstream imho, now its still mainstream as people pull more people :)
- Yunus Tunak
Alexander: are you saying you're not my friend? Damn, ruined my whole day. I thought friendfeed was about reading smart stuff from the people I know.
- Robert Scoble
Excellent keep em out!
- andy brudtkuhl
Also - I agree with Robert. Facebook is waaaaay more complicated than FF
- andy brudtkuhl
Really, I am surprised you think that. I really like FF and would use it more then Twitter but I have found if I tweet from FF I don't get as many followers per day.
- John Flynn
I found facebook and myspace to be lightyears more complex than FF and Twitter, that's my Facebook is little more than a landing pad for people to find me, but otherwise unused.
- Matthew DeVries
Disagree. Facebook has the most horrid UI right now and each iteration gets worse. FriendFeed has a clean UI and is iterating to get better. The real issue here is that the amount of information can be overwhelming ... at first. Weren't these the same things said about ... TV channels ... the Internet ... or blogs in their infancy? In addition, why put the 'social' blinders on? FF is a data flow. Non-linear learning is the future and FF is a gold mine for anyone willing to invest a little time.
- AJ Kohn
>> for anyone willing to invest a little time. key words here. You really don't see the problem?
- Richard Lawler
How FriendFeed is complicated? Anyone who has a blog and Facebook and Twitter and Flickr and delicious and StumbleUpon and digg and YouTube and Google Reader and LinkedIn and Vimeo .... Can easily understand everything about FriendFeed!!!
- Amit Morson
@Richard: No. I don't. How long does it take to start a blog? Or create a MySpace account? Or build your Facebook friends? Or get followers on Twitter? Like *anything* you need to invest a modicum of time to get the most out of a tool.
- AJ Kohn
I actually don't agree. Why do people generally think that "mainstream" means dumbest users? We have a great diversity of people here, and they're not all tech' geeks. It's all in the UI. And imho the UI is nice enough, even the URLs (which are a part of the UI) are designed in a beautiful and simple way. It took me some weeks of using FriendFeed to develop NoiseRiver (another very complex UI for FriendFeed) though I've been what could called "mainstream". Also, FB is more complicated for me than FF.
- directeur
The thing is Facebook has all sorts of social hacks to draw users in. For instance, I know someone who was drawn into Facebook because of "relationship status." His girlfriend created a page for him so that she would have someone to be related to. He realized he better take control of that page. Bing, another user of Facebook.
- Robert Scoble
@Robert, I'd be honored to be your friend, but I doubt that would have anything to do with me writing 'smart stuff' ;-)
- Alexander van Elsas
I feel like people need to grok Twitter before they end up grokking Friendfeed. And you have to grok Facebook (and status updates) before you can grok Twitter. Of course, it's probably just be sampling bias, but that's how my friends who have made those jumps seem to progress.
- Victor Ganata
Well, over on Facebook we can poke each other and I can send you baby photos. Here? All we have is conversations. No toys. No poking.
- Robert Scoble
Precisely Robert - we all like to to talk about GUI and Usability and complexity... but mainstream denotes people feel a compelling need (reason) to use something. My take is that people know why they will/are signing up on Facebook... but have no idea why they would use FF. That can (and will IMHO) change... but only when we can articulate the value in concrete terms like "managing relationship status" or "staying connected with old friends".
- Brian Roy
2Robert "from the people I know": I think, we are also reading the thoughts of people who we don't know but we want to meet with or be friend in real life or give value to their posts, comments and likes.
- Ömer Faruk Kurt
Friendfeed is identical to many many message boards out there. That's all social networks at their core truly are. It'll take a long time for mass market users to migrate to formats of this nature but it's really more about training user and visibility than anything else. So, it could happen but probably won't. But there is nothing novel to the message board.
- Patricia
Brian Roy - Facebook has added lifestreaming to achieve "staying connected with friends".
- Hutch Carpenter
@directeur it is not about mainstream users being 'dumb'. It's about developers not understanding that mainstream users are not looking for the coolest technological tricks but a service that provides them direct value. UI is definitely a huge factor. Geek desire to add more controls and possibilities than the human mind could care about is another ;-)
- Alexander van Elsas
Omer: stick around here for a few minutes and I'll bet I'll know more about you than my next-door neighbor. That is a sad commentary on human life now, but it's true.
- Robert Scoble
Hutch - and your point is? There is a BIG difference between why I use something and HOW that something accomplishes what I want done. Some tool can implement the HOW far better than any other... but if I don't know why I'm using it who cares?
- Brian Roy
AJ, clearly you've never sat down and watched someone start a facebook page or myspace account. Within a couple of minutes you've gotten all the feedback necessary to get most people hooked. That's not the case on friendfeed for non geeks.
- Richard Lawler
FF needs pictures and a pretty interface, the mainstream like this! Take a look at this page - not very pretty. Facebook has more bells and whistles for the average person.
- Chris Frost
Brian Roy - My point is that Facebook starts with friend connections, then adds lifestreaming. FriendFeed starts with lifestreaming, and we find friends. The latter model takes some coaxing to get people over here.
- Hutch Carpenter
I'd suggest that for most end users, it's almost impossible to stand at the top of the learning curve and see why others can't get up it.
- Ken Sheppardson
@Robert glad you can't poke me here. That would definitely be a friendship killer. BTW getting blackmailed into Facebook is a tactics I have witnessed before too. People take Facebook way to serious.
- Alexander van Elsas
I always thought of myself as hard core and thanks to Jeremiah it's been proven. :)
- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
Hutch - Ah! Ok... got it. So facebook has a compelling mainstream message about WHY you would use it (connect with friends) and good tools to help you do that. FF has great tools with (perhaps) an absence of a compelling mainstream message about WHY you would use it. I'd buy that.
- Brian Roy
I think the most important disadvantage for Friendfeed is that I have to scroll all the way up to be able to add a comment at the bottom. Major UI bummer! ;-)
- Alexander van Elsas
Sure Robert, We want it to be like that. We are broadcasting ourselves to remove the borders. People wonder what his friends are doing, so we are following facebook. People wonder what are the people are reading and thinking so we are following ff. People don't want to be lonely :) want to talk and share.
- Ömer Faruk Kurt
@Richard: Okay, show me the proof. Where's the data? Where are the comparative UI stats on MySpace versus Facebook versus Twitter versus WordPress versus FriendFeed? Sorry, but YMMV and from the rate of FriendFeed growth I'd say there isn't nearly the problem with UI that many claim.
- AJ Kohn
Ken hits it on the head. It's the same reason why people who prefer a command line interface can't understand why other people can't live without a GUI.
- Victor Ganata
@AJ let's take out Twitter as a stream for FF. I'd like to knw how fast FF is growing then? Aren't they simply lifting of Twitter traffic (just wondering)?
- Alexander van Elsas
FF wants you to use all kinds of web tools(flickr, twitter, reader etc.) and use as many as you can, thats by definition not mainstream.
- Yunus Tunak
Sorry AJ, I left my Facebook powerpoint in my other Internets. I don't need a number to tell me what an afternoon spent at a library can easily make clear.
- Richard Lawler
And FF UI is messy too, i am using Stylish with my own codes to tweak FF interface.. Many people do.
- Yunus Tunak
I think it's not complicated. it's just practically impossible to keep up with the content flood if you have a life :D
- Roland Hesz
I think FF is simple, not messy
- andy brudtkuhl
I think ff is a specialized version of a forum. FF changed forum concept a little bit and now we can subscribe what people are saying. Also, we have a homepage filled with the posts of our subscriptions.
- Ömer Faruk Kurt
I felt the same way initially but when they added the "real time" feature and the ability to create lists (filtering) it provided me with some of the features that Twitter Indian-gave us oh so long ago. The ability to thread and to have our life streams merge from other services is a plus not a minus.
- Aron Michalski
from fftogo
Bluntly, those of you who judge FriendFeed by how early adopters choose to use it, lack imagination. Picture someone who simply follows a few friends, clicks "Like" on stuff, and occasionally shares a message, photo or link.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
@Alexander: Twitter as a % of the content is an interesting topic. I don't know but I don't think they're leveraging the *traffic* per se, but if Twitter were to shut off the ability to feed Tweets into FF ... that would be interesting and likely bad for both services.
- AJ Kohn
Bruce, you haven't explained why that person would leave the facebook account they already have.
- Richard Lawler
@Richard: That's your opinion and you're welcome to it. And qualitative research is wonderful. But ... Library users, that's a unique segment isn't it? And what part of the country did you do that? Urban or Rural? That's a good deal of bias. It's a fine opinion, but right now in year one, FriendFeed growth is strong based on the numbers.
- AJ Kohn
Richard, I was addressing people who say FriendFeed is too complicated, not people who say Facebook is too adequate. I don't think FriendFeed is going to beat Facebook in 2009 or 2010, but I do think FriendFeed has great long-term potential. The untapped market is bigger than Facebook's userbase.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
AJ, the library point is an example, there is no doubt that you can go to a library near you today and watch someone casually using setting up a page on myspace or facebook. They way that person reacts to their first few minutes and the way they'd react to the information friendfeed presents are entirely different. A year one growth number tells me nothing about friendfeed's mainstream potential. Actual user experiences tell a lot.
- Richard Lawler
Bruce, what untapped market? How many people are out there who don't have facebook pages, but are at all interested in the features presented by friendfeed?
- Richard Lawler
The market is everybody who currently uses email to share photos, messages, and things they find on the web. I wrote more about it here: http://friendfeed.com/e...
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
Since I wrote that, Facebook did go ahead and implement half of FriendFeed's "Like" feature, bolstering their adequacy, but there's still a long way to go.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
Bruce - Those people have facebook pages. If they don't, they don't want to, and they don't want friendfeed either. The assumption that people will use the hide feature to make friendfeed palatable is ignoring how people use these services. You can look at the complaints about facebook to see most people don't understand or use filters well already.
- Richard Lawler
I'm so down with that, Jeremiah. Most people don't WANT all the info FF makes available
- Francine Hardaway
from twhirl
You should try http://www.popego.com (full disc: I'm an investor), they are trying to fix these issues
- Emiliano Kargieman
Who WANTS frf to become mainstream? I don't. All people who are here are pretty cool and we almost don't have ghost accounts, no jerks, no advertisers. Conversations and posts are awesome. Why invite 175 millions?
- Sasha Kovaliov(.com)
I agree. I don't want FF to become like Usenet did in the 90s.
- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
FF may not go (public) mainstream anytime soon, but I think it could be widely adopted across enterprises within the year. Wonderful opportunities exist with FF.
- Mark Evans
Hi guys! What would you think about a one-week-user-generated campaign to promote FF? We're enough FF lovers to spread our message all over the Internets. If we make this our challenge, we could make FF mainstream in 15d.
- Jérôme Flipo
Mark, frf on enterprise level any soon - I doubt it. Most of them still not ready for social software. Look at SharePoint - is it a bit social? SAP is integrating twitter and Lotus notes have got linkedin support and we are in 2009. I think it will happen but not that soon and not in the way it exists now.
- Sasha Kovaliov(.com)
Let's create a FF room to organize this campaign, get @Jeremiah and @Robert inside and the web is ours!
- Jérôme Flipo
I think once you resign yourself to the fact that there is just too much "stuff" being posted for you to see every thing, and start using list to decide what you are going to read and when you are going to read it, FF becomes much more manageable. As far as FF going mainstream, all it will take is for (the management team of) some pop star or movie star to start pushing out tweets or the rss feed of their site and the rest will come running...
- J. Abdul-Qahhar
In some ways I agree with Jeremiah because I can't get a lot of my Twitter and Facebook friends over here. They're comfortable with what they have and feel connected with their friends in each place, they also get content which they feel they're in control of in the sense the sense they are sharing with only people they choose to connect to. Friendfeed is still mostly a tech or geek playground by comparison. Which means I have to spend time at the other places if I want to play with friends, sigh.
- Sally Church
I love how easy it is to post something I found online on ff. I wish all blogging tools had the same feature! I would write stuff all the time and probably be annoying - but it is such a hassle to grab images and upload them. That feels very ol skool.
- JoEllen
Does it really matter whether this goes mainstream or not? Not.
- tony
Jeremiah: Ha ha. No. FriendFeed has one of the nicest, cleanest, interfaces around. Once you learn how to filter and set up lists, the interface gets even easier and nicer. As with so many other things technical, it all comes down to RTFM.
- Steven Perez
Agreed, so FF needs to make sure that it doesn't get more complicated and leave the mainstream behind. Unless they only care about early adopters, which I doubt.
- Jeremy Campbell
from twhirl
What is currenly "complicated" in FriendFeed? Really, I don't see anything wrong with its UI, maybe some enhancements are welcome, but it's really very usable. Kevin did a great job!
- directeur
Agreed. It's powerful, but needs a much me simple interface.
- Ian Betteridge
from twhirl
Facebook is the most damned complicated interface they could have dreamed up once you've spent a day with it. Same with My Space, who can find anything on those pages. Twitter is simple, but you have to subscribe to 200 people before you start to get anything good going. I only really like the FF interface. It's very functional, fast, let's me spend plenty of time here. On Facebook I update my status and them I'm out.
- Eric @ CSTechcast.com
I cannot understand why people think FB is LESS complicated than FF. Absolutely ridiculous
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
Agreed Rahsheen
- Tyler (Chacha)
Who said Facebook and FriendFeed are competing for the same thing? I use both and they are two seperate things entirely. And that's ok. Why do we have to have a winner? I don't hang out with my different sets of friends all at the same time. And also, why the rush to get mainstream? You don't tile the roof before laying the foundation </get off my lawn>
- Johnny Worthington
FriendFeed is less complicated than Facebook, and if used for the same purpose (connecting with existing friends), then it has got something going for it. At least FriendFeed users are not bombarded by silly application requests.
- Rishabh Mishra (p248)
So maybe there could be an option to use a basic or advanced UI for FF. I do lament the lack of mainstream appeal, but I love the power and flexibility it gives users.
- Tom Landini
Yes, Friendfeed is really complicated for people to understand. My dad (who I think is fairly wise) is just catching on to everything - Facebook was the easiest for him to join. Twitter second. FriendFeed? Confusing.
- Tabz
I don't believe it is more complicated, just offers you with a different way of gaining and disseminating information. Not complicated though once you have your FriendFeed groove going, it's pretty easy.
- Sharon Dexter
When I first started using FB it felt complicated as hell, now it's second nature. FF doesn't have a great flow but as more people use it, that should change.
- Nathan Wooding
I think it's deceptively simple
- anna sauce
I don't think that Friendfeed itself is terribly complicated - one could even call it elegant - but the problems that it addresses tend to be those experienced by complicated people - people with lots of social media outlets and not always good ways to aggregate them or to comment on them with a close network of trusted peers. If I were Friendfeed I'd stick with the elegant solution for the geeks and look at how all of its content can be aggregated more effectively for non-geeks.
- John Blossom
I agree. Friendfeed has a lot going on that make it a valuable tool, but it's a bit overwhelming when you first start navigating it.
- Trish Ridgway
I don't think FF is complicated it's just hard for some people to manage so much information
- Mihai Secasiu
It's not mainstream because not everyone is into reading and filtering a stream of information/conversations. Yes, a lot of people are interested in this, but not the mainstream, IMHO. Another argument could be said that we can do most of what FF does inside Facebook now, if we chose to (import feeds, blog posts, tweets, conversation streams, "likes", etc). But do we all (on FF) do it? Probably not. Some people like specialized tools for each job - others like a universal tool for everything (ie FB).
- Brian
Friendfeed is still early in its development cycle: It is one of the cleanest platform available and has captured a great core. It now needs to find a set of killer apps which will allow them to clear the chasm. And when they do, they will put a lot of pressure on both twitter and facebook because they have a much more open and cleaner foundation. The only piece that is missing at this point is an addressable user namespace. That is what creates the power social dynamics on twitter and is sometimes missing.
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Jeremiah, I've been saying this for ages. It is a promotional content tool that 99.95% of the population have no use for. It's more like a medium for PR. That Robert thinks this is where the conversation happens is not true.
- Bob Sonin
For me FF is about pushing life stream to Facebook. Only the social media crowd reads FF, but everyone I know sees that same info on Facebook. I installed the FF app on Facebook that feeds all the FF activity into Facebook. I really appreciate that FF has gone out and done the work to connect all of my social tools into one place. Great tool.
- Travis Murdock
Like Francine, I think it's more about the information. I don't particular think FF is hard to get, it just takes more work to strike up conversations with people than it does on Twitter or FB. The thing about FB is that everyone I went to MS, HS, and college with is on there. But those people are not over here. That's why people might think FB is easier. The "average person" is not going to use FF--I don't think, ever.
- Lynne d Johnson
gotta jump on the bandwagon here: facebook is really more complicated than friendfeed. and i'd also like to posit that "complicated" is not always a deterrent - in many cases it is the extra features that lead the more hardcore users to flock to these services. either way, i agree that friendfeed isn't yet mainstream, but it took twitter several years to hit that level too (or facebook for that matter).
- mike fabio
Wow. Big discussion. Just skimmed some of the comments. I think it not that it's inherently complicated, but that (as already said by some people) the core value add is not big enough for most people. Looking at the success of Twitter and Facebook vs FriendFeed's limited growth (even though it offers most of the features that the whole body of Twitter users in aggregate is asking for) is an interesting lesson in product development. So I guess the next question is, where does FF go from here?
- Andrew Shuttleworth
The thing is its not complicated to use, but to understand its value, and to get value from it, is complicated enough that most people will never want to use it.
- Richard Lawler
@Bob Sonin: Nearly 100 comments on this *one* thread alone seems to prove that conversations *do* take place on FF.
- AJ Kohn
"Why would I need 500 channels of television?! It's too much to deal with!" Sound familiar? A lot of 'social media' folks seem stuck in thinking FF has to deliver the same things or act the same way as other services. That's just not true. Nor has it ever been true in the evolution of any medium.
- AJ Kohn
I still think that for most people, the value of brief posts from people in a social network is not immediately obvious. Even in FB, most people take a little while to understand the purpose of status updates/posted items/walls/the newsfeed, and only a fraction of FB's users actually use them, and only a fraction of that use them actively. In FF, its analogous functions are basically what it's all about!
- Victor Ganata
Like any other product, survey clients and give the customers what they want, pretty simple.
- Jim Peake
AJ - for every "500 channels of television" "no one will ever need a computer with more than xx MB of RAM" there's a thousand products that don't catch on with the mainstream. You've got to do better than that.
- Richard Lawler
Complicated does not mean not useful. At a certain point the growth of a communication tool limits it's utility for anything other than selling soap. I use IRC semi-daily because it's easier to get in front of the people who know about what I want to discuss. As long as FriendFeed makes it easier to find conversations about things you're interested in it will be useful. Confusing newbies is just a side benefit.
- Sam Levine
Completely agree Jeremiah.
- Jamie
depends on what mainstream really ultimately is, facebook is technically mainstream, but a slice of users are hard core and others dabble currently, ff in this new beta is looking like an extremely powerful aggregator and discussion tool compared to even several weeks ago
- Patrick Boegel
Gmail is down and lots of people are talking about it. http://search.twitter.com/search...
Daniel Rowley, Igor Poltavskiy, Niki Costantini and Smeerch liked this
imap is working fine on my iphone, no sweat!
- Carl Plant
from twhirl
same issue here - Gmail down
- Arnaud Fischer
big deal
- Bob Sonin
like Carl said, as long as IMAP still works...
- Holger Eilhard
Gmail is extremely slow to respond.
- Russ Jackson
It's back up here in the US.
- Steve Rubel
HOW TO: Connect With the FriendFeed Community - http://mashable.com/2009...
deakaz, Frode Stenstrøm, Nicholas James and 65 other people liked this
"Perhaps you’ve heard about FriendFeed over the last few months. Perhaps you’ve been intrigued by its ability to aggregate all of your social media and social networking feeds all into one place. Perhaps you’ve heard about its remarkably fast-growing community (3327% in the last year, 26.6% in the last month alone). But maybe you’ve put off joining because FriendFeed’s community isn’t as simple as it might seem. Making new friends on FriendFeed can be tough for new users and even social media veterans. If you’re looking to truly utilize the fast-growing FriendFeed, understanding the community and making new friends is a must. That’s why we’ve put together this step-by-step guide to connect, network, and make friends on FriendFeed."
- Steven Perez
from Bookmarklet
I've heard talk of this place but I figured it was too difficult for me to understand.
- Christopher Harley
I've tried connecting, but it's just soooo haaaard. :(
- Steven Perez
from IM
Oh, yeah, and some social media guru named Manny Nomura helped out with this post. I should probably look him up. *ducks*
- Steven Perez
Isn't it just for early adopters? What use is it to us? pfffft
- WorldofHiglet
Start by subscribing to a couple dozen recommended friends. If you want to find the top FriendFeeders, there is nothing better than Alltop’s top FriendFeed users where you can find folks like Hugh MacLeod who commented on a post in January, another one in December, and another in August. Or perhaps subscribe to Justine Ezarik who commented twice in October, once in November, but then...
more...
- Christopher Harley
Who is Justine Ezarik?
- Steven Perez
I don't approve your language.
- Uncle CW™
"If you want to find the top FriendFeeders, there is nothing better than Alltop’s top FriendFeed users": http://frienderati.alltop.com/
- Christopher Harley
Very nice step-by-step guide to FriendFeed
- Iván Abrego
ROFL@ChrisHarley. Listen to him he speaks the truth! @@
- Carlos Ayala
Meh. I was kinda torn by this list, seeing as I already wrote the seminal post on how to connect with people on FriendFeed: http://silas216.com/2009... [/sarcasm]
- Steven Perez
Christopher, is your beef with the article or with FF? Maybe the Alltop FF list isn't the best recommendation, but I do think the post offers some helpful tips/information for users who don't quite get FF yet.
- Jennifer Van Grove
@Jennifer I can't fault the impetus for writing the post. Users need some sort of hard and fast rules for getting started but pointing them toward people who've parked their services on FriendFeed, seldom to return to the conversations they've started, sets new users up for frustration.
- Christopher Harley
LOL at you all. Especially you, SP.
- WorldofHiglet
Yeah, how to connect on FF is fairly simple, if intimidating at first. I think there's a post coming out this later on tonight.
- Steven Perez
from IM
steven, there's more than enough already..
- Terry O'Fee
:P
- Terry O'Fee
Oh, what's one more, Terry? Besides, it means less LOLcats in the main feed. :D
- Steven Perez
from IM
Christopher, fair enough, but I still think the post is a good starting place for newbies. I've read more than a handful of posts that over complicate FF use cases and make the service appear more daunting than it is.
- Jennifer Van Grove
Jennifer, you're right about that. Here's a line that speaks directly to this issue from Steven Perez's post above, "(A) They have lives as social media mavens elsewhere on the internet and (B) they’re the first names you see when you sign up. So, let us never bring up this spurious line of reasoning again. [My Edit] Because, (C) They've abandoned the conversation and following them,...
more...
- Christopher Harley
Friendfeed is pretty deep without being super intimidating. I enjoy discovering useful features as I go. I'm not really an 'early adopter,' a geek or a Tech Blogger. Just someone who is interested and enjoys learning.
- Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)
This was the best FF write-up I've ever read. Ben did such an amazing job -- and I truly hope I'm not alone when I say: he certainly captured the essence of FriendFeed. BTW, it was all Ben, not me!
- Mona Nomura
Anything that can help people understand is a good thing. To have two good articles in a day is unusual, though. I wonder how many new users they will bring in?
- WorldofHiglet
Two? Whose am I missing?
- Mona Nomura
what's with mahalo and alltop, do they stink to everyone else?
- Bob Sonin
No list of users is idea, but alltop does have a good list, and I also mention scoble's lists and gray's lists. If it bugs you, bug Guy Kawasaki. Bug him via Twitter DM - He responds.
- Ben Parr
@Higlet - The intent was to help people get into the community and integrate easier and faster. Help people understand it, and be useful in the process. You hit the nail on the head.
- Ben Parr
Christopher: I think of it as a learning process. When noobs get bored hanging out with the popular kids, they then move onto to the cool kids. :)
- Steven Perez
"social media veterans". Seriously?
- Chris Cotsapas
YES! Don't you remember the Social Media Wars of 1998 and 2002? My God, the streets ran red with the blood of USENET vets and MySpace noobs. The entire internet was awash in flames and sorrow. And when the dust settled, only the Final Five remained to rebuild social media as we know it.
- Steven Perez
Friend Feed's too hard.
- Chrimmus Tad
SUCK IT UP, SOLDIER! We have to hook up with Sergeant Reynolds' platoon in Serenity Valley! MOVE OUT!
- Steven Perez
from IM
You crack me up STEVEN PEREZ!
- BEX
..But if your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you, Steven Perez.
- WorldofHiglet
If you want to be well informed as well as well entertained (well well well) all you need to do is follow STEVEN PEREZ and the people that he interacts with. Everything else will follow . . . especially if you interact, participate, soak it all in . . . and laugh . . .
- Chris Loft
YOU WILL HOLD THIS LINE, HIGLET. YOU WILL HOLD!
- Steven Perez
from IM
ROTFLMAO, Chris! ... Wait, you were serious?!? Oh, crap. Ummm, I need to put on a clean shirt. *wanders off to the laundry room*
- Steven Perez
from IM
No - I think I was too busy carving some AOLer a new one with their own WebTV keyboard.
- Chris Cotsapas
Er, what is it I'm supposed to be holding again? *wonders over to get some mockoclate-covered protein cake*
- WorldofHiglet
Just as well, Higlet. You are ordered to lay down arms and surrender to the Alliance.
- Steven Perez
from IM
*pouts* well that's just great! How come we get to be on the losing side? We got these shiny brown uniforms, too. It don't sit right with me.
- WorldofHiglet
Yeah, whatever. I'm going to Miranda.
- Steven Perez
from IM
Pax be with you...
- WorldofHiglet
K-Pax?
- LogEx
*yawn* so tired ..,
- Steven Perez
from IM
This thread is full of win. Can I join your Browncoat army, Steven Perez?
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
Yes, Jandy, you can. How's your thieving skills? :)
- Steven Perez
from IM
You figuring to take a dirt nap, Steven? If not I suggest you leave Miranda. There's a Mr Badger eager to speak to you...
- WorldofHiglet
Urgh, too sleepy here. On to Persephone, then.
- Steven Perez
from IM
Actually, that was a really good newbie guide to FF, aside perhaps from the Alltop list, which I haven't seen. Once you subscribe to someone like Mona or Tina though, it's not hard to find awesome people to follow - just pay attention to FoaF and active commenters. And Steve, I'm actually more of a rush in firing, Navy Seals! kind of a girl. Is that acceptable? :)
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
NOT AT ALL! You go ahead, and we'll be right behind you. That way, when we all turn around and start running, we'll be in front of you. :D
- Steven Perez
from IM
Last night I bought into the meme that #'s of followers matter again. I was wrong. Again. Here's why:
Roman Zolotarev, Gordon Saunders, Patricia F. Anderson and 94 other people liked this
1. If you base your ego on something you don't control you'll continually be unsatisfied. Now we REALLY don't control how many followers you'll get. It's like winning the lottery. If you thought that winning the lottery mattered in some way to your life then you'll always be unsatisfied.
- Robert Scoble
2. The list of top Twitterers now has no integrity and everyone knows it, so being on that list no longer matters. It's sort of like the number of results that Google says it has. That number is a joke too and no one pays any attention to it.
- Robert Scoble
3. Who is listening to you has absolutely no impact on your life unless you are selling advertising. Who is TALKING to you DOES have an impact on your life. That's probably why I spend so much more time on friendfeed than on Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
4. Even if the list had some integrity there would always be someone more popular than you. Even Barack Obama will be passed someday.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, there is a saying in business. When somebody doesn't stop talking, it's marketing. When they shut up and listen, its sales.
- Patricia
Was it Twitter's "Suggested Follower" feature that's changed your mind Robert? http://tinyurl.com/cc66ow
- Jim Connolly
5. Talking to masses is fun and I hope everyone gets lots of friends to talk to because there is some value in having lots of people to respond to your questions or bring you the latest news, but I find when I wake up in the morning I head first to my list with only 150 people on it. Why? Intimacy is more important than popularity to humans.
- Robert Scoble
But how else can you tell who wins?
- Mistletoe Glen
Jim: yeah, that feature pissed me off last night. Why did I get pissed off? Because I bought into the meme that how many followers you have matters. But, it also reminded me that I am not in charge of how many followers I have. It is not based on any objective criteria (at least now, I thought it had at least something to do with objectivity and that you could earn followers by putting good content out. Now I see that you can earn followers by some subjective criteria and that led to this post).
- Robert Scoble
6. Due to http://search.twitter.com and friendfeed's search (and discovery items) you can have conversations with people without having any followers. So, having tons of followers is having less and less value as people go to Twitter search more and more (or use TweetDeck's search features).
- Robert Scoble
The list of top twitters has integrity - we know exactly what is and it's true to that - it's just not the way you would like it...
- yanwoo
@Glen: is twitter a contest?
- .LAG liked that
yanwoo: no, it has no integrity anymore. You have no idea why someone is at the top. You used to know, not anymore. Now if I worked at Twitter I could make someone go to the top of the list just by putting them on the suggested friends list.
- Robert Scoble
.LAG: all lists are contests. That's why they piss off so many people and why they are defended by people who are rewarded by them (me included).
- Robert Scoble
Robert: You will appreciate this then - How I deleted 23500 followers in 5 minutes (AND why I reset my Twitter account to zero.) http://jimsmarketingblog.com/2009...
- Jim Connolly
@LAG Some people obviously think so ;)
- Mistletoe Glen
Robert, the # of people following a person on twitter is a bit like a black box. Sure, we know all the accounts that are following someone, but we have no idea if those accounts are real people, marketing spammers, casual users, or something else. Until I can point at a users account and say "This is a real person, I know how to tell 100% of the time" then follower numbers are meaningless HS popularity contests. However, I do feel like once a person gets over a critical mass of real followers, the potential
- Daniel Spisak
re: #3... if you are saying good things, and people are listening and being informed or inspired to do good things, then it matters. Maybe not to you, but potentially to others.
- LogEx
...for crowdsourcing becomes possible and this is where Twitter has a lot of benefit to the user.
- Daniel Spisak
Jim: you are a braver man than me. Based on my talks with geeks who are increasingly finding themselves distracted and addicted by Twitter and friendfeed I would expect more people to do that in the future.
- Robert Scoble
Daniel: due to retweeting and Twitter search (and friendfeed) how many followers you have doesn't matter to crowdsourcing (as much).
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Thanks! It was getting stupid - Now, I can enjoy the small amount of time I spend on Twitter and DON'T NEED tweetdeck.
- Jim Connolly
I don't think this new feature of suggested users is any different from the throwback days of twitter when we had 10 highlighted users on the public timeline a year or so ago. why were you not beefin then? People received "extra credit" back then too.
- Liz
Glen, how will you know you've "won?" I judge myself off of how many times I get retweeted. That demonstrates readership, credibility, engagement, interest, etc. Those are attributes I like judging myself by. Not whether I won some popularity contest by figuring out how to get Biz or Ev to put me on some subjective list.
- Robert Scoble
The LA Times was also unhappy: http://bit.ly/Zp61T It doesn't bother me too much. There are plenty of lists online, so I won't get too worked up about Twitter suggesting people to follow. It would be nice if they allowed users to suggest who ends up on that list. But, as Robert points out, numbers don't matter, conversations do.
- Paul Rodriguez
@scoble, @glen —then, godd*mn, I'm getting my *ss kicked on twitter! i should give up. i'm so far behind, i'll never catch up. wonder if there are performance-enhancing drugs i can take to get back into the game. .LOLz
- .LAG liked that
Liz: I don't even remember that. But no one ever looked at the public timeline after Twitter got popular. It also didn't let you add one group with one click.
- Robert Scoble
Jeez, Robert, you just caused me to read that whole thread about Arrington, look at the Find People feature inTwitter, and try out Mr. Tweet. Spent an hour. Did it do me ANY good? I doubt it.
- Francine Hardaway
from twhirl
Paul: @leolaporte was unhappy. People who make their livings off of advertising find this stuff disturbing because Twitter can decide who will have businesses on its system (number of followers could translate into money. @techcrunch says that already 2% of his traffic comes from Twitter). Me? I'll have to earn my money the old fashioned way: good content.
- Robert Scoble
Francine: I think this stuff is all good. It causes us all to think about the tools we're putting so much of our lives into. Hope things are going well for you, can't wait until you're back in Half Moon Bay again. Let's go get a drink, I have lots of things to tell you when you're back.
- Robert Scoble
@scoble: perhaps it's the advertising model that's broken then.
- .LAG liked that
Robert, what are the big drivers of traffic to your money-making content among friendfeed/twitter/facebook/flickr/etc.?
- Bruce Lewis
Bruce: my referrer page usually has Twitter #1, friendfeed #2, Google Reader #3. When I'm on Techmeme it usually jumps to #1 or #2 for a day.
- Robert Scoble
.LAG: bing! Bing! Bing! You win the award of the insight of the day award.
- Robert Scoble
Content drives traffic, so it's the quality of the Followers not thew quantity
- paul mooney
Facebook has tons more users than friendfeed. Funny that you don't get lots of traffic from there.
- Bruce Lewis
Robert, it's hard for me to believe that you actually "bought into it" last night. You've stated numerous times and times again that followers don't matter and we understand what you are saying. But, if it is so hard to stand by what you preach, then don't preach at all.
- Michael Forian
Michael: I'm human. I fall into traps just as often as anyone else does. I make mistakes just as much as anyone else does.
- Robert Scoble
Bruce: facebook does not have the expectation that you'll discuss science or technology or news. The stuff that comes into my news feed is generally pretty fun stuff, but is not that. When I put videos into Facebook, though, it brings me good views and engagement.
- Robert Scoble
@scoble: but otoh, what are the alternatives to advertising? yes great content is critical, but it doesn't guarantee revenue or viability by itself. and then if you're a site with great content, eventually, you too, will probably end up advertising. i think the guys from 37signals have some wonderful ideas about how to survive and thrive using a different model, it starts with not worrying about being so BIG.
- .LAG liked that
I'm yet to see any convincing proof Scoble's human :) No one's online THAT much.
- Jim Connolly
I was a little confused because you at one time were saying the number of followers shouldn't be included in a tweet pagerank (http://scobleizer.com/2008...), so using the number of followers in this context shouldn't make sense either. Or do you see them as different?
- Todd Hoff
.LAG: if I had some answers I would be implementing like mad.
- Robert Scoble
The number of followers does not matter... to a point. However if you are a business, charity or person with a strong message to get out you have to also remember that your message means nothing if people don't hear it. So while the number of followers should not matter to your ego or self-worth, it definitely matters when you are shouting on the rooftops. You need a huge number of followers to have a greater impact. To that end followers are extremely important.
- Patrick Allmond
Todd: I believe that even more today now that the follower popularity rank thing has been messed with by Twitter's fooling with it with a subjective choice.
- Robert Scoble
Patrick: that is true, sort of. I can get my message heard without having any followers. I've seen that proven over and over again lately. How? More and more people are reading http://search.twitter.com or Friendfeed. Let's do a test. You open a friendfeed account. No friends. You post something. You tell me about it. I'll like it. That will put that item into view of all my followers. So, how many followers do you really need? None.
- Robert Scoble
Patrick as right. The hard thing is that # of followers is one of many things that do matter, but that we can't completely control. We have to constantly adapt.
- Bruce Lewis
Robert, Patrick is still right. What if Robert Scoble didn't have any followers? Who would you tell about your content then? Somebody has to have followers to make this work.
- Bruce Lewis
attachment = suffering
- William Harryman
"Zen and the Art of Tweeting" by Robert Scoble
- coldbrew
This is a great list and SO true! I still cannot figure out FriendFeed though. Many people who follow me on Twitter are just following to see if I will follow them back and are truely not interested in what I have to share and discuss as topics of interest.
- Hummie
Even if the list was correctly pointing out who is "the best Twitterer", why does it matter. Millions of people post that don't subscribe to anyone but just people they know. You need to not base your selfworth on the Internet and instead on your happiness.
- Jennifer
*in conclusion read the stream of "the REAL Shaq" his twitter diharreaha proves that # of followers doesn't mean the followed is spitting out gems
- sofarsoShawn
Would Scoble care about this if he were on it? I don't think so.
- coldbrew
Jennifer: if you are in the content business you are getting paid via advertising. Advertising is paid by "CPM" or, per 1000 readers/visitors, etc. Let's say you were making $25 CPM. Well, then, having another 10,000 readers is worth $250. If you can get those people to visit every week, that's a pretty nice chunk of change.
- Robert Scoble
coldbrew: I disagree. I am not allowed to accept gifts from the companies I cover. I cover Twitter, so getting this kind of reward isn't acceptable. I also care about the integrity of the communities and tools I use and interact with. I would definitely speak out about this feature and would pull my name out of it to protest that it was using subjective criteria to make people popular.
- Robert Scoble
Bruce: I know a lot of people who have lots of followers. I bet I would be able to convince at least one of them to RT my messages. If not, I get traffic from http://search.twitter.com -- just write about something that's trending and you'll get followers from that.
- Robert Scoble
So, basically this boils down to $, like most things. Personal motivation is an interesting topic in itself. Anyone that checks their web analytics daily (pageviews/ uniques, email subs, rss subs, followers, friends, etc.) is simply on a completely different wavelength than myself.
- coldbrew
By that logic, Scoble, you should request FF to remove you from suggestions, as you do not know, specifically, the criteria for getting on such a list.
- coldbrew
coldbrew: yup, when you do this as a business those are the things you care about. My wife, though, isn't doing it as a business and she still is caring about lots of those things on her Facebook account. So, even people who don't do it for money care about things like who is following them. It's a huge trap to fall into and one that isn't very satisfying. Humans are weird, aren't they?
- Robert Scoble
Humans are weird for a lot of reasons, but caring about popularity and influence is not one of those reasons.
- Bruce Lewis
coldbrew: that is absolutely NOT true. I already figured out the algorithm for how friendfeed works. Did you know that I'm NOT on the default list there? Here, try it. Open a friendfeed account with no friends. First of all, it will recommend NO ONE. Huge difference from Twitter. Second, add someone who does NOT follow me. I will NOT be on the recommended list.
- Robert Scoble
coldbrew: friendfeed presents a different list to everyone who comes here. Its algorithm HAS INTEGRITY. It is based on the most popular person OF THE FRIENDS YOU ADD.
- Robert Scoble
Just asked my good buddy and girlfriend about how many friends they had on FB (they' barely know what Twitter is). GF, "200 something" and my buddy, "No idea", so I'm sure you are having an impact.
- coldbrew
coldbrew: on friendfeed no one is getting rewarded who did not earn that recommendation FROM THEIR FRIENDS. This is one reason I really like friendfeed. Friendfeed really engineers things a lot better than Twitter and thinks through the consequences of doing something wrong or removing integrity from the system.
- Robert Scoble
Seems to me it was pretty inevitable as Twitter got bigger that any sense of meritocracy w/ followers would dissipate. I suspect more things will crop up to counter it's importance and offer different views of the best and most interesting Tweeters. Stocktwits is probably an early example of how Twitter may get sliced up. If that is a trend that plays out then #1 tweeter will become a database statistic :-)
- yanwoo
Robert, that's only partial integrity. First, that process has an accelerating effect that makes the most popular even more popular. Second, it's popularity rather than interestingness.
- LogEx
It is still your perception of some method for bestowing authority, rather than concrete knowledge, that is leading you to the conclusion.
- coldbrew
Logical: that is true, but that happens in life anyway. It is based on meritocracy, though. I spent thousands of hours on friendfeed last year when people thought it wasn't important to pay attention to.
- Robert Scoble
I'm speaking facetiously about "winning," of course, though some people seem to think it's a contest. Twitter's a bullhorn; even the # of retweets is a factor of how many followers you have.
- Mistletoe Glen
I agree with Robert on this one, it is not the number of followers; it never can be the number of followers. What it should be about are people who like you, who you like, who you want to share information with. It should not be a clique, you need to allow new members in and allow for diversity of opinion, yet in the end it will always be about like minds, sharing information that has the ability to change the world, and if not the world, at least the location that you live in.
- Dan Morrill AKA Techwag
coldbrew: wrong. I've done extensive testing of the http://friendfeed.com/setting... feature and understand how that list was decided on. Plus, you can do your own tests to verify what I say. On Twitter the list is totally random and subjective.
- Robert Scoble
Glen: I disagree with you about RT's. I've seen people get massively RT'd who only had a few followers.
- Robert Scoble
Campbell, most of *us* knew where you were coming from at the outset. Your thoughts on retweeting are spot on.
- coldbrew
Scoble, edge-cases, especially anecdotal stories, aren't the stuff that comprises the guts.
- coldbrew
80/20 rule?
- coldbrew
coldbrew: You've got some good points to make, but it might be easier to move on if you'll first admit Scoble was right about friendfeed's recommendations.
- Bruce Lewis
coldbrew: oh, yes, there is an 80/20 rule here in place. Just like most of life.
- Robert Scoble
"admit Scoble was right about friendfeed's recommendations" You mean that they seem to be more equitable than Twitter? Or, something else?
- coldbrew
That one can empirically determine that Scoble isn't automatically on the recommended list. They aren't entirely a black box.
- Bruce Lewis
Bruce: they aren't a black box at all. You can very easily figure out who and why people are on the friendfeed list. Oh, and the list is infinite and you can't automatically add the entire list, so you've got to click one by one and add people that way. There isn't a huge reward for being on the list the way there is on Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, my only point was that a person with 62,798 followers has a statistically higher probability of getting retweeted than someone with only 281 followers. There's simply more chance of seeing what got tweeted in the first place.
- Mistletoe Glen
Glen: that's true, but is getting less and less true over time as more and more people use things like Search.Twitter.com. Anyway, I'd rather have 100 active followers who actually talk with me than 1,000 followers who are there just to collect my name on their follower list.
- Robert Scoble
Agreed, But the fact that Twitter's recommendations are a "black box" is not what indicated to me (a long time ago) that # of followers was not something to obsess over. Also note: FF does not make it easy to determine how many followers a given person has.
- coldbrew
coldbrew: true, but ffholic does that.
- Robert Scoble
Search only helps if you're happy to ride an existing trend. If you want to start a new trend it's useless.
- Bruce Lewis
I have 1000+ followers, but less then 100 I really know. So in essense, I have 100 followers
- Lorraine Ball
I don't use ffholic (it is funny that they use ASP.NET :-), but you'll notice FF obscures these numbers (probably based on values they would like to instill).
- coldbrew
When the community is small and relatively homogeneous, a scalar metric like follower count might be a reasonable proxy for influence/popularity. However, as the community gets larger, more diverse, and "multidimensional" a single metric like followers breaks down.
- Ken Sheppardson
It's a bit like eBay feedback: consider two members with a 1000, 100% positive feedback score. You can get that by buying 1000 fifty cent Pokemon cards or by selling a $X million worth of collectibles. The bare number means very little, at least when used to compare members.
- Ken Sheppardson
BIZ Stone's quote from the LA Times: Twitter co-founder Biz Stone acknowledged that offering “suggested users” wasn’t the ideal solution and suggested that the service might evolve to cater to particular users’ interests. “Right now it’s sort of like staff picks at your local bookstore,” he wrote in an e-mail.
- Jim Connolly
Your point is well taken, Sheppardson, that multiple variables should be considered. There was a rumor at some point that Twitter intended to monetize based on this suggestion "engine" which I do not believe had any merit. It is akin to allowing payment for organic SERP placement.
- coldbrew
I think it is ironic that one of the best gadget bloggers of our time, Ryan Block (who used to run Engadget), has 1/10th as many followers as his girlfriend, Veronica has. Veronica will see someday why this system has no integrity. Jim: that quote shows the kind of engineering care that Twitter puts into things. That might explain why I see the fail whale on a regular basis. Well, that just verifies that I made the right choice last year to spend much more time here on friendfeed than on Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I like FF better than Twitter and spend much more time here. You made the best choice in terms of quality. But I'm not convinced you made the best choice for driving traffic to your money-making content. Quality matters, but quantity matters too. It's a tough choice.
- Bruce Lewis
How much of Twitter's power comes from tight SMS integration, and why doesn't some "Twitter clone" just make a play for simple SMS services horizontally (B2B style)?
- coldbrew
Quality versus quantity. And at end of the day it doesn't matter *if* you're contributing good content and simply using the service. The follower number plays to a person's ego ... it is, in my opinion, a real drawback to the service. It encourages the wrong type of behavior. I think FF has intentionally made these stats less obvious for a reason.
- AJ Kohn
Bruce: friendfeed has been growing faster than twitter did in its first year. I'm pretty sure the quantity will show up here too. And, anyway, I do have a few followers on Twitter so I can reach the audience I want to reach.
- Robert Scoble
coldbrew: not much anymore. SMS mattered a lot more two years ago than it does today since the iPhone came along. It will matter even less in the future after more people get smartphones. But, yeah, it does matter a little bit today.
- Robert Scoble
Coldbrew: I think apps like http://www.tatango.com will provide the SMS glue. That's a cool company, I'll have a video of them up this week.
- Robert Scoble
I know about tatango. Funny you should mention that. They seem to be sitting on their hands
- coldbrew
"Intimacy is more important than popularity to humans" -Robert Scoble Or rather it is more important to those who are conscious of the love God puts inside all of us to act upon or not: (Matt.5:3) http://www.biblegateway.com/passage... (Psalm 42:7) http://www.biblegateway.com/passage...; And this brings into perspective what we enjoy as opposed to what we love.
- Melanie Reed
SMS matters a whole bunch b/c it makes the field more open. SMS was built on the pager tech and I can get SMS when I'm out of phone range.
- coldbrew
All these problems will be solved when twitter acquires friendfeed.
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Ed, is that an opinion or are you airing fact ?
- atul abraham
from twhirl
Kambiz: I did not delete any comments here. Not sure what you are talking about.
- Robert Scoble
in our personal egoic minds, it should not matter, which is what you point out quite well - as I was expressing yesterday at NV09, I really tweet for myself... some ppl take that to extreme and tweet for themselves to be popular, playing games so they can sit at the cool kids table :( but bigger 'reach' creates more power to make a difference (when used for good). More access to network also means more access to better information (ie, my passport problem) which makes difference in our lives at key moments
- Chris Heuer
Good point re: who is talking to you, vs. listening to you. I've stopped following twitter people with a bad ratio - too many followers to who they read. Exceptions: hodgeman & anamariecox. I just don't like the ego of people who have big followings but don't engage.
- anna sauce
Last week, Mashable featured me as a twitter professor - in the 16th spot down the page http://mashable.com/2009... The first person listed was our friend (who you should be following) Chris Penn - he added 1400 followers in one day and I received just over 700 in same time http://twittercounter.com/chrishe... - http://twittercounter.com/cspenn (mentioned as real data point) IMHO the 'top100' shows the power laws of the A-List challenge in action, more pop u r, more pop u become
- Chris Heuer
Chris sounds like a catch-22
- anna sauce
Featured on mashable? Sounds prestigious...
- coldbrew
One must have amazing insight if featured by mashable, knowing how exclusive that site is about coverage.
- coldbrew
Nobody deleted comments, you just got confused about where you left your comments.
- coldbrew
If Scoble were covered by mashable for his usage of Twitter, he'd gracefully decline b/c it would be a payoff.
- coldbrew
Robert prove that you're not on the FF payroll
- Bob Sonin
Bob: Techcrunch looked into it. Arrington thought I should be getting paid by friendfeed. But I did not give friendfeed anything it didn't earn.
- Robert Scoble
Kambiz, this is the Dr. Jekyll post. You commented on the Hyde one. :)
- jcunwired
Then in the interests of full disclosure/transparency, what 'did' you give them
- Bob Sonin
Bob: links on my blog and tons of praise.
- Robert Scoble
nice work, cool
- Bob Sonin
ANA - perhaps, but not really - my argument is for disclosure so people know when its paid placement versus genuine recommendations - not passing judgment on the act, seeking clarifications and trying to further the conversation --- cant say its bad for everyone and then say I am dong something similar - more nuanced discussion then that, which you can read about in this post I just wrote http://bit.ly/30cKv "Is it ok for companies to pay to be featured users in Social Media sites?" (key is word USERS)
- Chris Heuer
Thanks for stopping by and dropping a link, Heuer. Stay classy man.
- coldbrew
Heuer, quick question: how many comments have you made without leaving a link to one of your own sites? [EDIT: specified type of link]
- coldbrew
@scobleizer, I disagree. Of course it matters. Number of followers matters and being at the top of the list matters. BUT, like the weather there is very little you can do about it, so it's probably not worth a lot of time worrying about it.
- Christian Anderson
coldbrew - generally about 90+% since I so seldom blog - on this page, with this comment 50% - is there a point you are trying to make? BTW - it seems I mistakenly was commenting on the other question (too many comments here and too many tabs open on my browser) - sorry about that --- do you not think that everyone has the right to start their own conversations and questions and then make others aware of that by sharing the link (insofar as it is on topic)
- Chris Heuer
I like your point #2 especially. Also, I have seen a few people who are gaming the system where a few people just retweet each other. Like they have a mob or coordinated thing to up their standing. Also, there are lots of people that are just trying to increase there followers and this is all they care about and you get junk Tweets and it fills the channel up with noise. Just fyi, if you follow lots of people you follow none. The channel will be crowded with junk. Trust me.
- Bill Romanos
Ana - are you asserting that people who have more followers then people they are following all have big egos? that they are not engaged? or are being disrespectful of people who follow them? (re: ur statement above) I couldn't disagree more vehemently with your broad brushed stereotyping - the majority of those with big followers and equal follower/following rations are quite the opposite of ur assumption - they are usually the ones in it for their egos - to be at the top of the list and using you to do so
- Chris Heuer
Ana, more importantly - what are your tips for dealing with the deluge of inbound communications from thousands of people into your SMS account? clearly you need unlimited text plan for $x per month first - then you need to resign yourself to the fact that you are probably going to miss things that are very important because of the decreased signal to noise ratio... This is a complex issue which IMHO requires us all to respect how other ppl choose to communicate, especially when its not causing any harm
- Chris Heuer
This conversation brings up a lot of ideas for me, but I can say simply that, in my gut, quality and not quantity is the way to go in ANY interaction. On-line, off-line, I don't care where. So, numbers without substance isn't going to do you any good on twitter or elsewhere. I guess the only time quantity works is for ad-clicks, because who cares if it is quality if you are just counting ad clicks.
- Martha
Heuer, I will spell out my point this time, though I do not believe it requires an IQ of significance to comprehend. You barely interact here on FF, and when you do, it is usually (>50%) in order to get people to take actions elsewhere (e.g. read your blog post, fill out a survey, etc.).
- coldbrew
Get it? Fairly insulting, imo.
- coldbrew
coldbrew - of course the real reason for putting a bit.ly link to my blog post that reframes this question is because I wanted to get the google juice from Robert - that is clearly what my track record shows to be true. Of course it has nothing to do with the fact that there are limits on the size of comment within FF... btw - with this comment, its over 70% of my comments on this page that dont have a link. wondering why you have a private feed - would be interested to see what you do without registering
- Chris Heuer
coldbrew - ah, so I am not native enough for you in FFand you dont like that I use twitter as my primary communications vehicle? well too bad - thanks for initially trying to thinly veil your insult and criticism and for ultimately feeling comfortable enough to insult me openly - no offence taken here at all because clearly you dont know Jack either...
- Chris Heuer
I realize having a private feed and not pimping myself at every opportunity would confuse you. I'm at a loss to explain it to you other than to say I value information and candid, honest conversation.
- coldbrew
PS - for people who actually care about these issues instead of trying to pass judgments on others, the very simple reason I request others to look at these things is so that we, as a broader community of practitioners, can connect the dots across communities to learn from one another and take collective action outside of any given echo chamber which creates insular feelings like those expressed by my new best friend here - thanks for making the point clear to all - I dont use FF daily, I am elsewhere often
- Chris Heuer
"for people who actually care about these issues "? Are you fucking serious? I have no ulterior motives, and I'm not trying to position myself as a "social media expert"; and, I certainly don't have a site that focuses on "social media" as something one should "leverage." So, before you go on espousing your integrity, take a look at the facts.
- coldbrew
OMG, what a spat! Chris, ignore him.
- Francine Hardaway
Frankly, I'm a bit tired of the sausage festival that is tech blogging. Veronica is a breath of fresh air. She has the power of "it" and "it" rules the world.
- Mattb4rd
@Scobleizer not that you'd worry, but I read what you write because it often gives me something to learn and think about that I would otherwise not find easily somewhere else. And you have a unique way of doing that. The fact that so many people choose to do the same is irrelevant to why I read your material :)
- Valeria Maltoni
Yes. When one is interested in finding some sort of "truth" through discussion, the best choice is to ignore those with differing opinions. Brilliant strategy, Hardaway.
- coldbrew
Hardaway, I realize you only came into this conversation at the last minute, but allow me to explain. There was a perfectly good discussion being had here, when Heuer (someone with whom you are apparently familiar) decided to chime in with a link to a semi-relevant blog post inspired by this very comment thread. He did not make his argument *here* where the discussion was being had, no; what he had to say required many more words than FF makes available.
- coldbrew
So, an entire post was written and Heuer made his weekly FF comment with "appropriate" shameless plug to his post. I suppose I can see how people that only come to FF occasionally don't grok the issue I'm having here, but that won't stop me from making it.
- coldbrew
I come here all the time, and often find a blog post comes out of a discussion I'm having here, or a comment on someone else's blog.
- Francine Hardaway
That is good. I just ask that you don't suggest someone ignore me for expressing my opinion. I'm no expert, but I do try to be informed about the topics in which I participate. I was offended, and I took it up directly with the offender. Please suggest to me what I might do differently in such a situation.
- coldbrew
I would have felt better about Twitter's recommended follows had it been some sanitized Google algorithm but this feels like some whorish self promotion and takes a lot of shine off Twitter.
- Ernie Oporto
from Nambu
i agree with @scobleizer here. the suggested people to follow in twitter has totally screwed with the 'meaning' of the rankings
- Chris Heath
Until WSJ publishes a US$/followers Forex rate I will continue to believe that number of followers is fundamentally worthless
- Jeffrey J Davis
For me, it was kind of strange to see the issues of "how many followers do I have" when I started reading blogs in 2008 for the first time. Seems like people like followers for many reasons (1) good conversations (2) boost to self-esteem (3) improve career prospects (4) share knowledge with others (5) etc... On the $ side, one of my friends with a labor-of-love website created over 7 years, now makes $1,000s/day (not thru advertising, but selling his own products)...
- Mitchell Tsai
Traffic can help connect people with services & products they like. In some cases, sharing pictures, articles, news about kids-friends-relationships, may be our gift to the world community. Sometimes, people are finding new jobs, developing new life paths, getting helpful therapy or support, or simply enjoying themselves. It's sometimes a little annoying for me to hear people criticizing other people who are here for reasons other than their own, but it's "free speech".
- Mitchell Tsai
Even with "trolls", I love the community on FriendFeed (Admittedly, I'm spending more time on Facebook...and unfortunately many people who share pictures there decline my requests to share them on the wider web, so I don't repost Facebook pictures on FF). More power to the people who are having fun accumulating "friends" or "followers".
- Mitchell Tsai
It's even useful to connect with 10-20 very-active-spammy-type-friends/followers. I no longer connect with spammers (unless truly interested in their stuff, which occasionally happens), but my few spam connections help me see if other people accept those spam connections. I suppose if my Facebook limit starts hitting 5,000, it'll be time to delete the spammers (after sending them a note explaining why I'm pruning my Facebook connections). P.S. Scoble, you rock!
- Mitchell Tsai
Good food for thought as I'm developing my conceptual 'follower' definition. I'm returning to value added in our network.
- ka3drr
+1 Ryo
- You.
Ryo: I regularly do things to get them into Google for myself to pull out later. The fact that other people are here doesn't matter.
- Robert Scoble
Ryo: it's funny, though. You don't need any followers to participate here in this conversation. So, why do followers matter? http://search.twitter.com displays your Tweets even if you have no followers. That way you can find other people interested in a topic. I find lots of things on google.com that have no followers either. Not saying that it's not nice if they show up (followers are wonderful) but they certainly are NOT a precondition to participating and having people participate with you online.
- Robert Scoble
Even if you *do* think they matter, using a save search in Twhirl can help you find folks to share with... I have 2000+ in Twitter and I'm nothing huge...just a bit strategic. ;)
- Cheryl Allin
The problem with an ego is that sometimes the holder of said ego cannot see over it ... well because it's an ego.
- Joe Breen
LOL, Ryo. So true. I can't tell you how many things I've posted on FF, and I get NO RESPONSE. I'm either painfully boring, or I need more followers so that I have a good chance of someone finding it interesting.
- You.
Prove that Techcrunch did not pay @biz $10,000 to get on Twitter's suggested friend list. They sure were not more popular than @leolaporte two weeks ago.
Wayne Sutton, Iván Abrego, Jay Neff and 114 other people liked this
Leolaporte deserves to be on the list -- he had twice as many followers as @Techcrunch did a week ago. Twitter's list is corrupt.
- Robert Scoble
Interesting suggestion but hard to prove or disprove.
- Liz
I'm out of the loop. Where is the list?
- Will Johnston
How about prove that they did?
- Omar Gallaga
Will: you go to friends/suggested friends on Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
wow's he's totally left you for dead, he's a smartie that arrington
- Bob Sonin
Omar: that is easy. Twitter has no criteria for getting on this list and mostly added big brands onto the list.
- Robert Scoble
Why $10,000? Are you just making up a figure or are you privy to some information? (As an aside, I see Brooke Burke on the list with 62,000+ followers. Wow, when did THAT happen?)
- Omar Gallaga
Bob: I will have the final revenge. In a year all the influentials will be on friendfeed.
- Robert Scoble
Yeah, I'm liking this, on the 'guilty until proven innocent' premise that Techcrunch seem comfortable in applying to all and sundry, including FB and Last FM within just the last week..
- Andy Connell
Scoble, interesting assertion, but... I must ask: who the f*ck cares? :)
- l0ckergn0me
I'm on the list, and I certainly don't have $10,000 to give anyone. Do you think I somehow bribed them, Robert? Hmm?
- Veronica
l0ckergn0me - I echo that sentiment completely.
- Mitch
who cares?? i'd rather follow that interest me. not how many followers they have..
- Terry O'Fee
Couldn't this also be taken as a statement on the morals of TechCrunch?
- MarkCarras
guilty until proven innocent?
- Mark Collier
I just noticed Robert's not on the list. Oh my God, I think I just figured it all out!
- Omar Gallaga
Robert, if you're so big on meritocracy, why have you, or the friendfeed founders driven by my ff posts without a 'like' or 1,000 retweets by now? You follow me. I've tweeted big news or quality stuff, and watch the "A-List" wait to see it from another "A-lister" before they'll retweet. Power liking some small fries mixed in with friends just so you can point to your proof is bs. Why hammer Twitter for the 1,000th time?
- Ed Shahzade /NextInstinct
so now we know Twitter's monetization strategy
- practicehacker
Way to spread FUD.
- Veronica
way to spread BS :P
- Terry O'Fee
Mark - yeah, gupi.. too complicated?
- Andy Connell
Hmm, never checked the list before. Wonder if new users use it a lot, or maybe I'm the only one who doesn't.
- Will Johnston
Ed: just today I Twitteted several people with fewer than 50 followers.
- Robert Scoble
Veronica: prove it is FUD. THAT is why this feature is corrupt.
- Robert Scoble
REALITY CHECK, ROBERT: NOBODY CARES. :)
- l0ckergn0me
Please... prove it's true. Is this just TC you're accusing, or everyone on the list?
- Veronica
Robert, you made the accusation. I think it's on you to prove there's something to your finger pointing beyond just... you know... your finger.
- Omar Gallaga
Veronica: I am not on the list. Neither is @leolaporte. We both had more followers than you did (and more than many on the list). Now I am wondering.
- Robert Scoble
@techcrunch and @veronica don't appear on my suggestedfriends list so is it a random list then?
- Iain
l0ckergn0me - Reality check .. YOU don't care...
- Andy Connell
Veronica - let's forget about Robert's question - being on that list provides more eyeballs and more pageviews for those on the list. for those of you on the list using twitter as a marketing platform (i.e. all of the list) - it provides more traffic and you know what that equals.
- Allen Stern
Note too Veronica that I did NOT say you paid. It is just that the criteria for getting on the list is corrupt.
- Robert Scoble
HAH! This is the funniest thing I've heard all day. Are you really just that bored this afternoon to accuse people of spending money to be on a suggested users list? #1 As Chris says, who the frak cares. #2 Do you honestly think someone like me or iJustine have that kind of money? #3 Wow, man, I thought we were cool.
- Veronica
I've made several "who to follow on Twitter" lists for the publication I work for and it's never just about who has the most number of followers. Maybe they just find the people on their list more interesting/appealing to newbies, from their point of view. Why do you assume the criteria is only "most followers?
- Omar Gallaga
Allen, I understand that. But the fact of the matter remains that I (I cannot speak for anyone else) never asked to be on the list, nor did I ever pay anyone to be there.
- Veronica
Veronica: I did not accuse Techcrunch of paying either. Read my question VERY carefully. I did accuse Twitter of making a feature that looks corrupt.
- Robert Scoble
Robert... Do you have any proof that this occurs? Is there any accounts of this occurring in the past (anecdotal or stated). I'm don't know either way but asking people to prove a something didn't happen without an established cause of suspicion is intimidation and, frankly, wrong.
- Johnny Worthington
If you are not accusing us of paying, then how are the criteria "corrupt?"
- Veronica
Veronica: the fact that Twitter is picking its stars with subjective criteria is corrupt.
- Robert Scoble
thanks veronica - yea my point is the marketing and "top of mind" that being on that list gives you special folks - i am not discussing the money point, robert is.
- Allen Stern
Robert -- aren't you the one always laughing it off when people unfollow you and saying that the number of followers you have isn't as important as the number of people commenting on Friendfeed? Now you're saying that if Twitter bases this list on anything other than number of followers it's corrupt? Or is your initial question in some third language I can't parse?
- Omar Gallaga
Veronica: prove you did not pay. You can not. The feature is corrupt. I can prove I did not pay to get on top of friendfeed. You can no longer prove that on Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
Um, Robert... they onus is on you to prove they did... sorry.
- Johnny Worthington
And what if they decide to rotate the list? If you're not still on there, will you continue to throw around accusations? Sounds like sour grapes, and you're better than that.
- Veronica
Omar: yes. Who follows you does not matter. But that does not change fact that this feature corrupts the integrity of Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
I agree with Johnny. C'mon, Robert! Show us some of that investigative blogging! Prove that TC (or I, for that matter) paid to be on there. Would you like me to send you my banking statements?
- Veronica
Omar: it is corrupt because you can no longer trust Twitters' follower numbers. The people who are most popular on Twitter did not earn their position through objective criteria. That is corrupt.
- Robert Scoble
I asked if you think a feature like this should be based solely on number of followers. Is that the only criteria you think is fair for making suggestions on who to follow?
- Omar Gallaga
Veronica: you did not earn a position higher than @leolaporte. So why are you defending this feature?
- Robert Scoble
Omar: it should be based on objective criteria everyone can figure out so no questions of propriety will stick.
- Robert Scoble
Allen is on point with his comments. Being on the list does equal more $. Regardless of how folks got on it. But again this list does show that who you "know" is critical in the social web.
- Kipp Bodnar
Perhaps, Robert, it is not a position to defend? Does Veronica use Twitter as a revenue tool? If not, this is moot.
- MVB (Grinch of FF)
I think you should enter some criteria to generate the suggested user list (likes etc)
- Iain
What criteria besides number of followers? That's the only one you've brought up.
- Omar Gallaga
Robert the influentials won't be on FF, it's just an aggregator, the influentials will have their own quality medium with distribution
- Bob Sonin
I do not know why Veronica is on the list and not @leolaporte so now I am wondering what is going on and no one can prove money and gifts did not get exchanged.
- Robert Scoble
I'm not defending a feature. I'm defending myself from being accused of paying a company to feature me.
- Veronica
Robert, you're a bank robber. Prove to me that you aren't. See how dumb that sounds?
- Veronica
I heard he stole $10,000.
- Omar Gallaga
That is easy: I have not received a gift from a bank I did not earn.
- Robert Scoble
In that case Robert, you are traveling the path of Joseph McCarthy. Rather than presenting evidence of corruption, you are throwing around accusations and telling those you accuse to prove you wrong.
- Johnny Worthington
Prove it.
- Veronica
Johnny: people are getting gifts from Twitter they DID NOT earn with subjective criteria. Why?
- Robert Scoble
@Scoble your headline is linkbait - but your point is valid - the recommender is crap. They should buy @mrtweet
- Chris Saad
I think Robert is making weak arguments, but his base point is sound--if there is an algorithm that is making those picks, then it's not very transparent. If the list is editorial, it would be nice to at least know who has made the picks.
- Eric Florenzano
Tell us what you think the criteria should be, Robert. Other than "being Robert Scoble."
- Veronica
@ev posted that they just picked some names. It's not really that big of a deal.
- Christian Burns
Veronica YOU received a gift from a corporation you DID NOT earn. I did not receive such a gift. This feature is corruptible.
- Robert Scoble
Great question Robert... maybe you should lead with that rather than dropping corruption accusations. I actually think there may be some underhanded work in a few selected cases but unless I have evidence, I'll ask questions first, set up witch hunts later...
- Johnny Worthington
Why didn't I earn it? Also, it's not a "gift," it's a recommendation.
- Veronica
I say the feature is done by hand and the appearance of impropriety is nothing more than lack of research by an intern.
- MarkCarras
@Veronica Robert is not suggesting he should be on the list. He has always actively worked to flatten these tools, not do land grabs which he could easily do. Suggesting that's what he is saying is not very productive.
- Chris Saad
Chris, it's hard not to take personal affront to this bad logic.
- Veronica
@Veronica, as I said his initial tweet is linkbait - it's clearly an exaggeration - but his underlying point is valid.
- Chris Saad
Johnny: note that I did NOT accuse anyone of anything. PLEASE read carefully! I just am pointing out that some people are receiving gifts without earning them. This is why Fast Company forbids me from accepting gifts. So MY integrity does not get called into question.
- Robert Scoble
@techcrunch prove to us that you are not plotting to take over the world while you pretend to drop out and take pictures of tropical beaches. I bet you aren't even going to answer me.
- Christian Burns
In that case, I'd like my gifts BACK
- Chris Saad
If someone added up all the pro ff posts, anti-twitter posts, link direction, they'd assume Robert was into the FF funding.
- Ed Shahzade /NextInstinct
This is absurd. What gift, in tangible terms, is being given?
- MVB (Grinch of FF)
Chris -- in a separate post Robert said " two weeks ago I was more popular than Techcrunch and @leolaporte was a lot more popular than me. Today Techcrunch is way more popular than either of us" -- that's flattening the tools?
- Omar Gallaga
Robert, your inflammatory remarks and accusations (and they are that, no matter how many times you tell us to READ CAREFULLY) come off as really childish and insulting. If you have an issue with a feature of Twitter, there are better ways of pointing it out than accusing people who considered you acquaintances, if not pals.
- Veronica
I just can't believe I am not on the list! I sent @biz 5 bucks too. WTF?
- Beebo Wallace
Veronica: you did receive a gift. Advertising is sold by 1,000 viewers. Ask Ryan how much 1,000 people are worth. You did NOT earn that gift by any objective measure.
- Robert Scoble
Must have some troubles with the American to Australian translation but without this thread for explanation, it sounds like you wondering out loud if Techcrunch paid biz to get on the list...
- Johnny Worthington
@Omar ok well that's an even lamer way of expressing the point haha
- Chris Saad
Beebo: obviously $5 wasn't enough.
- Robert Scoble
It's well-known you can't "prove a negative". Or make logic with such as "clearly, pigs fly, because we have a black president" - more to the point, that list stinks, and bad -- McCain and Tony Robbins are on my list, and a bunch of corporations.
- Richard pancakhaus Walker
Robert, you keep avoiding the question of what you think Twitter's objective measures should have been if not just number of followers. What do you think they should have been?
- Omar Gallaga
I've been saying for years that recommendations should be based on interest overlaps, still, no one listens. www.socialwhois.com
- Chris Saad
@scoble just admit you are asking Twitter to implement APML Profiling and Matching and let these people chill out
- Chris Saad
Insulting people is a great way to get a point across.
- Veronica
I think it is definitely a gift. You are gaining followers who are in turn being effected by your content. They aren't mailing it to you with a bow on it as in a physical gift, but they are making it much easier for you to generate revenue or web influence power.
- AJK
Robert, there is no such thing as CPM for Twitter because followers -- and recommended user spots -- are not bought and sold. Period. You think they are? Prove it.
- Ryan Block
Who gives a frak? Honestly. Accusing @techcrunch of paying $10,000 is stupid. How do we know he DID? Did Twitter contact you and say "the only way you can be on the list is if you pay $10,000?" And all the bagging on Veronica isn't necessary. It's a stupid list. GET OVER IT.
- Zach Flauaus
Veronica: it is interesting that you feel accused. This feature sucks. Some day you will see why.
- Robert Scoble
I feel accused because you accused me, and everyone else on this list. Not indirectly, directly. Oh, someday I will see why? When I'm not longer ON the list? Actually, Robert, that will be fine with me because I won't care. Because I haven't invested in BEING on the list.
- Veronica
Zach: I did NOT accuse anyone of paying. I am accusing Twitter of designing a corruptible list. Friendfeed's list is defendable. This one is not.
- Robert Scoble
Scoble obviously "deserves" some sort of recognition. If he doesn't get it, others must be paying. Right?
- coldbrew
Read about this and other social media revelations in Robert's next e-book, "Scobleized: Destroying Relationships, Throwing Out Baseless Accusations and Talking Down To Peers."
- Omar Gallaga
@Everyone who is saying the discussion is pointless just doesn't get it. These things are worth $. They seriously affect the way twitter works and who gets attention. Attention = $. Social tools are about finding niche audiences. If Twitter is biasing towards celebrities or given individuals (for whatever reason) it changes the medium and the message. Stop pretending that these things don't matter.
- Chris Saad
@Omar - LOL.
- Veronica
Robert... do you think that Techcrunch did pay biz $10,000 to get on the Twitter's suggested friend list?
- Johnny Worthington
This whole discussion is rather petty and absurd.
- coldbrew
@Johnny *sigh* he was making a point by giving a clearly exaggerated and baseless example. Our inability to prove it either way IS THE POINT
- Chris Saad
has anyone tried to find out how the suggested friends algorithm atually works or are we assuming its a manually generated list cos they haven't said much about the suggested friends feature?
- Iain
Perhaps the problem is that Robert should just say what he means. Also, still waiting for that objective criteria. Waiting... waiting...
- Omar Gallaga
Veronica: well since there is no objective criteria for being on the list and since being on the list is a gift of tens of thousands of in earned followers and since you don't care anyway why don't you tell Twitter to make the list based on objective criteria and pull yourself off of that list until it is? That is what I would do (friendfeed fixed its list after that kind of pressure). Not to mention I can not accept unearned gifts anyway.
- Robert Scoble
Chris.. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want my name used in this way. My issue is not with the point Robert is trying to make, it is the way he is going about it...
- Johnny Worthington
Scoble: "Prove that Techcrunch did not pay @biz $10,000 to get on Twitter's suggested friend list." That's not accusing @techcrunch paid $10,000 to Twitter? Twitter designed that list for who they (read: employees) think people should follow. Perhaps it was money, but I highly doubt it.
- Zach Flauaus
How has your follow rate increased since being on the list? My assumption would be that it has increased significantly since being on the list.
- AJK
Yeah, this is like a high school kid whining about his brother having all the friends, and mindlessly laying blame.
- coldbrew
@Scoble accusing @techcrunch is not making things personal. @techcrunch is a big boy and Arrington and Scoble are friends. It was clearly a statement to reveal ambiguity in the process - @Veronica no need to read any more into it than face value.
- Chris Saad
Haven't logged into Friendfeed for a long time, but this is rather insulting, Robert. You're seeing dollar signs and personal gains in # of twitter followers?
- Derek Reiff
@coldbrew I think everything is reminiscent of high school... I'm in the damn place. lol
- Zach Flauaus
Johnny: no I do not think Techcrunch or Veronica paid to get on this list but there ARE brands on there. Did they pay? I have no idea. But this feature is as corruptible as shelf space at Fry's.
- Robert Scoble
Robert -- you're saying that you would have asked to be removed from such a list had you been included? What if you and Leo were both on it, but this phantom "objective criteria" you keep mentioning was not transparent?
- Omar Gallaga
One man's corruptible is another man's monetizable.
- Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
Definitely Chris! Recommendation algorithms MUST be based on something else than "popularity". We've discussed this, you and me, often, and I still believe that these algos could be 100 times smarter using "personal relevancy" — I'm sure you still share this opinion with me :) I hope I'll be able to provide a proof-of-concept thingy (yes, the one you've seen) still experimental but surely optmizable.
- directeur
Omar: yes. I would be forced to remove myself from thiis list if added.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: To me it looks like a list of people who aren't going to overwhelm new users and people that are going to be interesting. The reason your not on the list is because you would flood a new user and might make them want to leave the service. And all Leo does is promote TWiT and doesn't really present much value to the newer users except to lead them to his show. Honestly Scoble there is nothing corrupt about this. This list wasn't designed for us anyways, it's for new users, just let it go.
- Jimminy Fuller
I'm checking out of this conversation now :)
- Chris Saad
Robert, that's cool, but again without the context of your friendship with Mr Arrington and this thread for explanation, .normal' people will think that the list is corrupt and, by extension, cast dispersions on the name of the people on it (which I think is a part of Veronica's issue). While your point may be valid about the integrity of the list, please be advised that your words will have an effect on those not on the inside of social media.
- Johnny Worthington
I am not allowed to accept gifts worth more than $100 and being on a list decided on subjectively is a no no for journalists. Especially those at Fast Company.
- Robert Scoble
@directeur - is it popularity, an algorithm, or just a random sampling of people the folks at Twitter have heard of? it doesn't seem to be randomized whatsoever.
- Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
Robert. you have more than enough people following now. Why does this bother you so much? it's rather sad.
- Terry O'Fee
Good point James. I never thought of those reasons for the picks. I think Robert posts stuff of great value most of the time, but the point is still very much on target.
- MarkCarras
Terry: the integrity of the tools I use for my living concerns me a lot.
- Robert Scoble
Robert -- did you ask to be removed from this Forbes Web Celeb list? Seems like that was quite a gift: http://www.forbes.com/2007...
- Omar Gallaga
Mark, sure, it definitely is not random! It can't be random and show the same faces all over the web (friendfeed, twitter..) You've described very well "popularity". But the fact is, that me "directeur" (a given user) would really like to see people who'll share my interests, this is imho the next step in socialmedia: connecting people "smartly", and providing content for users smartly too! and this could really be done (I've crafted 3 modest proofs of concept) using notions like APML. This is really DOABLE
- directeur
his ego would be mended! :P
- Terry O'Fee
I have no stake in whether Tech Crunch did or didn't pay someone to get @biz on the suggested list on Twitter, I do however believe that the twitter suggested list it self encourages herd following , and that those who have a massive jump in following over a short period, have a very shallow following, while those who acquire their followers over time have a much deeper following
- Kim Landwehr
I understand Scoble's point. His post is misleading and deliberately provocative, but the underlying point is fair: "Twitter's suggested friend list generates lots of followers for those who are on it." Decoding his original post: "1. Two weeks ago, @techcrunch was less popular than @leolaporte. 2. Then @techcrunch ended up on the suggested friend list. 3. Now @techcrunch is more...
more...
- Stephen Mack
The fact that we're having this discussion is just sad. Just one blogger's opinion, though.
- Ben Parr
Mark: I totally agree that Robert posts stuff of great value but he can throw controversial ideas out that he can't back up sometimes, case in point. The main reason that I don't see him on the list isn't quality but moreover the quantity of his tweets. I wouldn't want to be on the list either just out of respect to new users.
- Jimminy Fuller
Well, directeur, your model is incorrect unless it places Scoble at the top of everything. If it does not, you're taking a pay off :-)
- coldbrew
ben - i agree. instead of using this for what its meant for, people cry that they dont get on the top of the list. it's hillarious..
- Terry O'Fee
coldbrew :) No, Robert will be just like you in this system. BUT, there's something else and I've had the pleasure to discuss it with a very smart guy: AUTHORITY. This is NOT popularity, it's smarter (should be - because the current used definition in socialmedia is wrong) more specialized and could be done too (collaboration planned with that smart guy)
- directeur
directeur: The issue is that they can't predict who someone would like. We're talking about something that none of us should be using. It's an introductory tool not something you use once you have developed your network. It's impossible to create a recommendation that works using a non existent data-set. The only way they could modify it is if they ask the user some questions about themselves during registration, that's not user friendly. Would you like to be trown a bunch of questions when you sign up?
- Jimminy Fuller
James, very smart question, and yes it's doable. The content submitted by a user, the content a user likes, comments on, retweets is a very rich dataset that could be used to establish an APML profile.
- directeur
thank you, jason. probably one of the smartest comments ive seen on this useless conversation...
- Terry O'Fee
Robert, would you be in the same position on this if you were on the list? Or would you promote the list and the fact that you made the cut?
- Debi Jones
i wonder if he would of posted it on his website too...
- Terry O'Fee
Firstly, can you prove they did?
- sofarsoShawn
directeur: You didn't get me though, it's for new users they have no data, they haven't retweeted, followed anyone, hasn't liked or commented on anything yet. And the majority of people aren't going to have an APML. Therefore trying to pick people off of this nullset is impossible. Honestly if I want to follow someone on twitter I'll ask my current followers for suggestions. Starting out Tabula Rasa on a new service though it's not possible.
- Jimminy Fuller
Looks like we have a good old fashioned weekend BitchMeme going on here.
- Mike Doeff
what bugs me is it's impossible to find people/friends/followers with interests and careers outside of tech. I've been trying since October to get a good list of science posters, and I have a grand total of 1. Kiki Sanford, and she never retweets, so I can't poach people from her.
- Matthew DeVries
I don't follow @scobleizer because he's a twooshbag. But I did learn that @brookburke twitters, so I'll be following her.
- kchu
terribly done yes. Paid no. Twitter should just buy MrTweet or one of the location based twitter recommendation services so it would provide people close to the new people or related interests instead of throwing random bigwigs who don't respond, not related to their interests.
- BCK
Wow I can't believe you are getting so bent out of shape about this "corrupted feature" Scoble. I respect what you do but I had to stop following you because it was just too much and became annoying after a while. But seriously, who cares? Why is being followed considered a "gift?" And why would you tell them to take you off this list if you were recommended? That's just stupid. Being followed is like me walking up to you and saying, "Hey I read your blog." Is it not? I can't believe you reacted this way.
- Eric Bland
hmm.. look at it the other way: some new users are joining twitter and the twitter team is simply trying to improve the experience of those users so they put together *a* set of profiles to help. This is how it works in startups. Over time, they will improve that feature so that it is more transparent, targeted, effective but you have to start somewhere. I do not think that twitter is trying to bribe anyone: they are way beyond the point of needing to do that. Too provocative Robert!
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Honestly, I would never recommend @scobleizer, or any frequent twitterer, to a n00b twitter user because he would scare them away. Scoble is for hard-core users.
- kchu
The burden of proof lies with the party making the claim, as this is obviously not a case of prima facie. And even if it were true, who the hell cares? This is fascinatingly idiotic.
- Mouse
This entire thread reads like petty, petty bickering, mostly on the part of Robert. It's this kind of narrow minded, stubborn soap boxing that gives blogging in all its variants a bad name. I imagine what really happened is a few folks at Twitter saw some fun twitter peeps with a high profile name and a nice signal/noise ratio and decided to throw them on a list without much second thought and then moved on to more important business of the day.
- Joost Schuur
One thing I take away from this is that true journalism will never be dead. Robert saw something intriguing, something that didn't add up, something suspicious. In the Edward R. Murrow days, someone would have methodically, slowly, and doggedly chased the story, built the story and told the story. Bloggers however, have a whim and fire off a post. Yeah, it will precipitate the truth, as twitter is forced under the pressure of 100,000 voices to come clean or explain the algorithm, but I guess.....
- Matthew DeVries
.....I just find Murrow's way to be more elegant
- Matthew DeVries
OM NOM NOM ... hmmm these grapes are very sour today...
- Terry O'Fee
Robert Scoble is playing the Bullshit card on TC! I see a war coming...
- Outsanity
The only thing to be answered by this unanswerable question is: you get tons of followers by being on Twitter's suggested friends list.
- sofarsoShawn
Hell, I can't even prove that *I* didn't pay @biz $10,000 to get on Twitter's suggested friend list.
- Mistletoe Glen
I was on that list (@cinevegas) and did not pay to be on it. Somebody actually alerted me that I was since I didn't even know.
- Roger @ CineVegas
Also this feature is a month old, why now are you attacking it?
- Roger @ CineVegas
Lord all mighty. All of you don't get it do you? Twitter is about community, conversation, relationships. You are all to narcosistic to see that. Quit arguing like children. Just Twitter or shut up. Ge'ez! Act like an adult already.
- Norbert Davis
What if it's just who Twitter happens to want you to follow? Was it corruption when the video store workers would all post their weekly pics? Was "Steve" on the take because he pick 5 Warner Brother's films? They should tell how that list is compiled, but you don't defame to force candor. This isn't fucking Nam, there are rules.
- Matthew DeVries
The fact that this conversation happened on FriendFeed was not lost on me.
- MVB (Grinch of FF)
it screws with the integrity of everything on twitter. in every way. i have 18K followers, but am not on the list. maybe i got all those followers in some side-deal with twitter that wasn't disclosed? or one day i lose 10K followers and my competitor gains 98K. is it because @biz was given some stock? or they didn't like something i said? it could all be totally innocent but it still taints everything.
- Dave Winer
#followfriday = Communism
- Andrew Smith
The thing is that the Twitter Suggested List is simply corrupt because there isn't an actual method behind it.
- Tyler (Chacha)
Robert is simply saying the the list isn't based on popularity.
- Tyler (Chacha)
I think that is a valid statement (I think I've ended the comments.... boo)
- Tyler (Chacha)
ITS A CONSPIRACY I TELL YA! THE WORLD IS OUT TO GET US!
- Tyler (Chacha)
Twitter needed to pick some suggested names that would be most likely to get a beginning tweeter to continue tweeting. If Twitter decides that Hammer is the way to get people to continue using the service, that's Twitter's prerogative.
- Ontario Emperor
As long as it's obvious and transparent that this primer list completely due to some person or some committee's fancy with no metric whatsoever, then Twitter is doing nothing wrong. Have they admitted this? It should be apparent on the page itself.
- Matthew DeVries
It's brilliant way for twitter to expand it's user base from tech geeks to the larger populace overall.
- sofarsoShawn
It is quite reasonable for companies to make subjective recommendations to their customers. The Apple iTunes store, for example, provides several very subjective music, video, and app recommendations on its front page. Robert's employer just recently published a very subjective list of fifty companies that they thought its readers would find interesting. Time magazine compiled a list of 100 people they found interesting in 2008. Wait, wasn't Michael Arrington on that list?
- Steve Wilhelm
Robert's argument are weak at best, founded on the assumption that Twitter's "suggest" feature should only be based on a user's # of followers. While it would be nice to know how they choose who makes it on the list, I honestly don't think Twitter has to disclose it. This is a parallel to Flickr's "interestingness" meter, which decides who make it onto their "Explore" page. The fact they don't tell you exactly how the photos are chosen, doesn't mean that it's corrupt.
- Trevin
Coming to this late, but just want to thank Chris Saad for laying out the objection to an arbitrary list of recommendations in clear and sane fashion. (As opposed to inflammatory fashion, which resulted in all this hot air.) Saad's right: attention = $.
- Ian Wilker
None of this will matter when celebrities and sports figures get on Twitter, and Twitter really goes mainstream. Scoble's 63K and Laporte's 90K will be dwarfed. Reality check: Twitter is much bigger than Scoble.
- Mohamed J
@Mohamed J I would much rather have scoble who is real on Twitter than some PR person for a celebrity.
- Michael McGimpsey
from twhirl
MichaelMG: I haven't seen the suggested users list but @TechCrunch, @aplusk, @the_real_shaq, @mchammer are not run by a PR employee. Plus, Scoble is too noisy for the Twitter newbie (who is most likely not a tech head).
- Mohamed J
Leather ♥ Donut - ftw.
- kchu
A few questions: 1. Does 'suggested friends' imply impartiality? To me 'suggested' or 'recommended' connotes a subjective opinion while 'popular' or 'top' implies a strict numbers-based ranking. 2. If a service's 'recommended friends' list is created by number of followers and is in itself the most effective way to get more followers, then how can this help but be a feedback loop? How...
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- Kevin Fox
Put a different way: Why do we assume that Twitter should only recommend the most popular people?
- Kevin Fox
Isn't this more about one person wanting a different set of criteria for 'eminence' in a list vs a set of criteria decided by another person(s)? Sounds like you should make your own list to your criteria; folk love lists and someone is bound to look at it. Their list, their criteria ... your list, your criteria.
- Colin Wheeler
Even when you are on holiday you are causing trouble Mike
- Chris Saad
just seems to me that twitter made a selection of accounts that might be of interest to a new user, trying to cover a wide range. Perhaps their criteria are not as ominous as you make it, perhaps they looked at a stream that someone new could feel would be accessible to newbies?
- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
Pay @biz :)
- Josh Lam
@michael arrington HAHAHA!!!!! While I agree with scoble's premise that the list is fundamentally flawed. I do think this whole conversation is very very funny!!! Now has twitter responded with how they are making the list?
- Benno
i am convertible to 1 e-token of intangible 'value' in this imaginary perceived point value system of social media numbers
- sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq
& i rate your performance by the # of sounded claps i make @ a given rate per sec w/ respect to the db emitted. right this sec, this is convertible to 1/3rd the popularity rate unit counted in the perceived cumulative total + 1 in regards to the gross popularity total i just made up and substituted from other people's realities assumed to be true. this is my derived perception of social media popularity that may change at any time and may be replaced for another assumption.
- sɹǝɥʇɐǝɟʞɔɐןq
Ah the smell of conspiracy in the morning.
- Robin Wauters
I think twitter should replace all the little avatars with Tom from MySpace.
- Wes Hoogenboom
Wow this stirred up a lot of shit. I actually have to go with lockergnome, why should we care. This article: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technol... clearly states that the suggestions are staff picks and therefore subjective. The people that sign up and start following the twitter staff picks most likely are going to be annoyed and bored with most of the tweets because they dont know those people and because they werent served with suggestions by interest..
- Kahlil Lechelt
This should be re-named as "pre-selected list", not suggested. Twitter is just trying to quickly increase usage for future monetization.
- William Mougayar
if recommend is synonymous of "most followed", then #1: @scoble you say the contrary all day long (followers are pointless) #2: this feature itself is useless since we just need a search engine "by number of followers". I therefore assume that twitter tries/is trying/intends to/ put value other than simply nr of followers. and how can you do this with objective measurable inputs? Finding someone interesting or not is based on your own standpoint. So the feature is controversial per se
- Jean-Charles VERDIE
I'd pay 10K to get a profile there, do i twitpic a check in?
- sean percival
To market my brand, I'd pay 10k, get put in front of 1m faces, and another mil or 3 over time after this post gets thoroughly read. All this attention is worth quite a bit more than 10k, wouldn't you say.
- Zax Stevens
My first thought was that they would sell spots on that list if they hadn't already. Robert's topic is provocative only because Twitter's added a feature that looks so baldly commercial. Not that there's anything wrong with it!
- Michael Pilla
Here's a simple test: Go to 2 different Twitter accounts you may have (e.g. personal/business). Check that list. It's the same! So, this isn't a "Recommended list" in the way that FF or APML might do it. It's not related to who you follow/don't follow & what you like. It's just a list that's marketed by Twitter- let's take it as it is.
- William Mougayar
"Robert -- did you ask to be removed from this Forbes Web Celeb list? Seems like that was quite a gift: http://www.forbes.com/2007... - Omar Gallaga" So Robert, how about it? Did you pass on the "gift" Forbes made you?
- Alexander Kucera
Wow, longest conversation every!
- Sweyn Venderbush
from twhirl
Omar and Alexander: I didn't pull myself off of the Fortune list because 1. that didn't end up getting me much of anything, certainly not provable. 2. It was a subjective list done by a professional group of editors and it was presented as subjective. 3. it reflected real-life popularity. In fact, one could argue that being high on Twitter and friendfeed follower lists is why I got onto Fortune's list. Before two weeks ago those follower lists had integrity. Today they do not. But no big deal, I'm over it.
- Robert Scoble
I didn't see him on the list.
- Patricia
This is eerily similar to a high school election.
- Oldengrey (Jay)
Twitter has a suggest list? don't remember the last time I used it if ever
- Jeff Quinton
Biz Stone - From The LA Times: Twitter co-founder Biz Stone acknowledged that offering “suggested users” wasn’t the ideal solution and suggested that the service might evolve to cater to particular users’ interests. “Right now it’s sort of like staff picks at your local bookstore,” he wrote in an e-mail.
- Jim Connolly
Robert: I view the Suggested Users feature on Twitter as a Staff Pick in iTunes. They have no relevance to anything else. It's just what the guy behind the screen wants to pin. I was very sad to read this. I love the idea that the individual user is beginning to rise over traditional mainstream media. It's something I've worked toward for the past 3 years. However, I see this as the death of journalistic integrity.
- George Force
Robert: You speak of Twitter's Suggested User feature being corrupt, however, within the same action you lay down egregious accusations. What ever happened to the days of fact checking? You have to keep in mind, no matter what your intentions are, you swing a big stick. Thousands of people are going to read what you say. If you do not intend for something like this to be taken as media, then you need to make clear what your intentions are.
- George Force
Everyone has been waging war to try to win the popularity contest, and they've focused so hard on this that they've forgotten the basics. As the paradigm shifts, we are starting to create a high tech sewing circle where the words slander and libel have no meaning. We all need to work a little bit harder to try to remember that there are real people with real emotions on the other end of the wire.
- George Force
George: read again. I did NOT lay down ANY accusations. I did not accuse anyone of anything, I just said this creates a situation where we can not be sure how they got on this list. Please read carefully. This feature is corrupt. Why does Ryan Block have 1/10th as many followers today as Veronica? (They used to be about the same). Because Twitter "picked" Veronica to be popular. That's subjective and ruins the integrity of the follower system.
- Robert Scoble
George: right. Subjective systems pick stars for weird reasons. Do you pay to get on the iTunes list? I don't know, but given the music industry's past of payola I really wonder. How did the brands get onto Twitter's list? Did they pay? Why Veronica and not Ryan Block? Ryan ran Engadget. He deserves to be on the top of any list too. This system is stupid and lame and not well thought out (which even Twitter admits in the Los Angeles Times this weekend).
- Robert Scoble
I understand that you want change on Twitter. I don't blame you for that. But why should they listen to what you have to say? You go onto their platform and out them publicly more than once a day. Twitter doesn't owe anyone but their VC anything. If you hate Twitter so much, then stop using it. It could easily be said that you're giving friendfeed a gift by going to Twitter and talking about friendfeed. Are you receiving a check from friendfeed?
- George Force
Your whole argument could then be boiled down to, "Twitter made a poor choice in thinking about their recommended accounts feature and it is poorly thought out." Good thing this was just an FF thread and not a blog post.
- coldbrew
There is no reason to say vile things about a service on their platform due to a matter of preference. If you don't like Twitter, stop using it. It's that simple. Twitter works very well for what I need it to do. friendfeed serves another purpose entirely. Twitter does not need to be friendfeed. You said in a different post about how we need to stop focusing on followers and start focusing on who's talking. I would say we need to stop focusing on followers and start focusing on what we're saying.
- George Force
George: I do not receive checks or any compensation from friendfeed. I didn't receive any compensation from Twitter when I talked it up a LOT two years ago (my readers got sick of me talking about Twitter all the time back then too).
- Robert Scoble
Now I'm going to go watch some guy get kicked in the groin on YouTube!
- George Force
coldbrew: who said this is not a blog post? :-) There's no real definition for what a blog is. Friendfeed is blogging. So is Twittering.
- Robert Scoble
George: I totally disagree. These are communications platforms and one of their uses IS complaining about how they are built. I used to use the telephone to complain about AT&T too. So there. :-)
- Robert Scoble
I'd like to wrap up my opinion about the whole subject in 2 sentences: 1) Who are you to recommend people to me? 2) Recommending people to me means that you know me, that you know what I'm **interested** in. i.e. Every recommendation algorithm that **IGNORES** the user is by definition stupid.
- directeur
Jason: I did not make any claim. Go and read it again. This time read it. Don't react emotionally. Read it like a computer compiler would. Parse each word. I will admit I was sensational and stupid. I did NOT call out Techcrunch. I called out Twitter. That's different. I did say that I am not sure how people got on the list. Why did Veronica get on this list and not Ryan Block? You can't explain it. Neither can I. So, that opens up the door to corruption and graft. Perception does matter.
- Robert Scoble
The only fault I can find with twitter is that it has created a new breed of egomaniacs.
- jcunwired
Because my name was used in Robert's post (and we discussed this ad nauseum on Gillmor Gang) I'd like to weigh in. I know it sounds like sour grapes when I say anything about this. And I suppose some of it is. I did enjoy being at the top of Twitterholic. And there's tangible benefit to it - it gives you cred (some, not a ton). I suppose Twitter leaves me off its recommended list because I'm not always a fan of how Twitter does business. That, in itself, points to a problem with how the list is generated.
- Leo Laporte
Why does perception matter? Because you are not even able to unemotionally read a sentence without reading meaning into it. Now, try to read a sentence (like what Twitter is communicating by making Veronica a star and not Ryan Block or not Leo Laporte) and add that same emotionality into it. THAT is what I was trying to point out.
- Robert Scoble
I do admit I made that point in a stupid and lame way, though, and for that I'm sorry. But it did get you to engage on this and think about it and for all the hurt feelings this morning THAT is a positive thing.
- Robert Scoble
If you don't think number of followers is important, then the "suggested list" is irrelevant. And I think that's what Twitter is saying. "Who cares if Whole Foods is acquiring thousands of unearned followers a day? We just want new users to have someone to follow." My point is that Twitter has immense power to influence the course of Twitter. This simple suggestion list thrusts some users forward for arbitrary and opaque reasons. This is why an open solution is ultimately better for us all.
- Leo Laporte
Leo: I prefer to use the words "algorithmic" and "objective" instead of "open" but I get what you're getting at.
- Robert Scoble
Look, Robert, I'm not trying to bust you up. I respect you and what you've done for the community. What I'm saying is that "Prove that Techcrunch did not pay @biz $10,000 to get on Twitter's suggested friend list," sounds an awful lot like an accusation. That's it. Hence, the focus on quality. People need to stop a second and think not about WHAT they're saying, but HOW they're saying it.
- George Force
@scobleizer That's because you want to preserve Twitter. I don't think _any_ private micro-messaging solution is adequate. It needs to be open, like email. No algorithm is going to make a proprietary solution acceptable in my mind.
- Leo Laporte
George: the point is that I don't know what the criteria is. So, you can't prove anything about anything on this list. That causes a perception problem for everyone involved. I know people who WOULD pay to get on this list. Why? At some point thousands of followers will mean money. I used to work for a magazine with 110,000 subscribers that made millions every year. This list ruins integrity of community. It is corruptible.
- Robert Scoble
Goodness gracious, folks. I'm in la la land right now and I still understand the point Robert was trying to get across. Pour out the Scoble haterade for two seconds.
- Shawn Farner
Leo: ahh, I see what you mean by open. I thought we were just talking about the recommended follower feature. Now that you are talking about the entire system I totally agree. I have on my to do list to take another look at Identi.ca. We should start another thread about whether or not that's the answer and if not, why not.
- Robert Scoble
I have to agree with Jason H. Robert, you DID accuse TC of paying off Twitter. You creatively arranged the words to make it look like you are not directly making an accusation, but we can read between the lines. You do have something against TC, but that is your issue to resolve, don't bring it here. Ba a man and either say it out loud and to Arrington's face or shut the hell up about this. If you have a problem with Twitter then bring it against them. Sack up or shut up. Investigate or go home.
- Norbert Davis
Robert, I'm not disagreeing with you entirely, and I'm certainly not becoming overwhelmed with emotion. Would you be interested in having a round table with myself and Ben Heckendorn on my podcast? Leo would also be welcome.
- George Force
I'm not trying to get ratings or promotion. I'm interested in this subject.
- George Force
Norbert: Mike Arrington (founder of Techcrunch and I are friends. I picked Techcrunch because he would get what I was trying to say. He speaks out against corruptible systems elsewhere (like his competition with Demo conference, which companies pay to get on stage). I didn't accuse anyone of anything. I did say that this system raises the perception issue. This is why journalists aren't allowed to own stocks in the companies they cover and why they aren't allowed to take gifts. This is a corruptible system.
- Robert Scoble
Scoble could post about the air-land speed of a European Swallow and get "engagement" much like TC and their one-word post, "Twitter."
- coldbrew
Twitter needs the cash, good for them. It's about time they found a way to make a little $. Also, I don't think popularity is the best indicator of a friend. @Techcrunch has been good to me, Leo on the other hand...(-;
- tarafireball
"And, therefore, Twitter is a witch. Burn Her!"
- coldbrew
Spill it, tarafireball. What'd Laporte do?
- coldbrew
Its amazing that this topic gets more comments than the ISP/wireless bill, that will affect us all.
- Joe K
Here's Arrington's post with 442 comments: http://www.techcrunch.com/2008...
- coldbrew
This post wouldn't have gotten nearly the attention with a less incendiary title. Even "I can't prove Techcrunch didn.t..." probably would have blown over quick.
- Bruce Lewis
It'd be interesting to see some eye-tracking type analysis on threads like this to see, on average, how many comments people read before commenting themselves. Seems like there's a whole lot of repetition.
- Ken Sheppardson
That's not entirely fair, Lewis, I wouldn't continue if I didn't have some assurance that some smart folks would chime in.
- coldbrew
There are 256 comments on this post. I guarantee you I'll not be reading them all before I post this.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
Rasheen, it is a summary about how they chose the Knights of the Round Table. Hint: The Black Knight always wins, b/c it is merely a flesh wound no matter what happens :-)
- coldbrew
FTR, I read every last comment (like always), sigh.
- coldbrew
As someone who moved away from just numbers to quality numbers, it's all a tempest in a teapot to me. I can reevaluate my relationship with either TC or Leo at any time, but the specter of payola makes it feel like 1999 all over again.
- Scott Pierce
I am amazed at the level of BS people are spewing here to grind their personal axes - also amazed that some people would take this so personally as an attack when it clearly wasnt an attack on them at all. Robert, in a rush to post like he often is, did not craft his words carefully enough and issued a challenge using incendiary language and referencing a friend (who will survive the debate clearly). This sort of thread is what makes Andrew Keen squeal with delight...
- Chris Heuer
Q1: is twitter adopting a pay to play model for being featured anywhere on its site? Q2: Will the user community (especially new signups) be better off if they are open about how they are doing it? NO DOUBT - FAIR DISCLOSURE ALA ADVERTORIAL Q3 Does this sort of advertising (and the sort that has GaryVee using adsense to promote his twitter account) have a positive or negative impact on folks or does it matter at all? does this use of money as power to get attention take away from open/meritocratic ideals?
- Chris Heuer
one disclosure piece - last week I contacted the folks behind twitter counter to see if we (aka me for Social Media Club) could buy a 'follow us' ad on their top 100 page - as the noise gets louder, we need better ways for getting noticed. http://twitter.com/socialm... was in the top 100 there for several months until recently being kicked off list by hollywood celebtrities joining conversation - Q4 should celebrities and companies be on separate lists - should we have user 'types' to differenentiate
- Chris Heuer
I own twegomaniacs.com. I will gladly accept $10,000 from anyone who wishes to be placed on that list :)
- jcunwired
How is this at all different from Google Reader's suggested content bundles, or the defaults that are included on start pages (some of which actually do pay to be there). Frankly, I'd have no problem if Twitter did charge for these spots, though I'm confident they haven't done so thus far. People are clearly willing to pay (see twittercounter) ... it's a good biz model
- Adam Ostrow
Robert, the fact that you claim over and over again that you didn't make any claims, makes it even worse. The implication is there, even if you didn't mean to suggest it. A lot of people read that implication as an assertion. You are a polarizing person, and people aren't going to be carefully parsing your words anymore. You must realize this by now, and if you don't recognize this passive aggressive aspect of your nature, then that is the real issue here.
- Joost Schuur
Why does it even matter if Twitter is 'broken' just because they don't have a perfect way to recommend followers at a time when they've just started opening up to non techies? Twitter suggestions have been available for a few weeks now. Can't we just let the system try and balance itself out for a while, before we freak out? Twitter is going to improve the system on their end, and some...
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- Joost Schuur
Joost: OK. It was a lame and stupid way to make a point but I think we are all adults here and everyone can see I wasn't asserting that corruption had already taken place. I just wanted to point out that this is a corruptible system that is rewarding significant gifts to some people in the community.
- Robert Scoble
It doesn't matter that Ryan Block has 13,000 and Veronica has 110,000. You are right. Onward!
- Robert Scoble
FWIW, I follow you, and everyone else on my list, because you post what I find to be interesting content. Leo is also there, Techcrunch is not, Veronica is not. Isn't it more important to have a fan base that is fascinated by the work you do than the random choosing of an arbitrary list that few people take seriously? I'm not a fan of suggestions in this regard anyway, not unless there is a compelling reason why I might be interested, and Twitter doesn't provide it, so its useless to me. No big deal.
- jcunwired
PC Easy: so not being on this list is punishment for bad behavior. Got it. That is why I hate subjective lists.
- Robert Scoble
Haha, we run mrtweet. We were #5 two weeks ago, and we were absolutely shocked by the massive increase in numbers by everyone. It is pretty puzzling for us - we are pretty sure we did not get recommended at all, since our growth remains very consistent. Oh well. ;)
- ming yeow
This is why the top Twitterer lists have ABSOLUTELY NO VALUE ANYMORE. I think Twitter really screwed up by using the suggested users.
- Bill Romanos
@ Robert: A) According to Merriam-Webster a gift is "something voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation". So no, since you call being on Twitters recomendation list a gift, Veronica did not earn it neither did TechCruch and neither did Leo. B) Your statement "Prove that Techcrunch did not pay @biz $10,000 to get on Twitter's suggested friend list." sure sounds like an accusation of coruption. C) Your ranting is really only damaging your reputation and FF by association.
- ChiliMac
Who even uses this feature anyway? I know I don't. I'm only going to follow people I find from other people I follow. That way I'm getting people with similar interests not what Twitter or FriendFeed THINK I might like to follow. PS. I just checked out my suggested user list and TechCruch wasn't on there. Maybe because I already follow him. But, in that case, if Robert knows he's on there doesn't that mean Robert doesn't follow him?
- ChiliMac
ChiliMac: Re "Who even uses this feature anyway?" Every new Twitter user sees this list. After you sign up, you're first asked if you want to try to import friends from another service (i.e. Gmail, Hotmail, Yahoo mail, etc.) The next screen is 20 users selected from an apparently larger (~100ish?) list --with all 20 checked--and a big "Finish" button. Following everyone in the random(?) group of 20 is the default for new users.
- Ken Sheppardson
I think Roberts problem is not that they implemented this feature but that the way it has been implemented. If the selection method was clearly paid or algorithm based then I don't think too many people would have a problem with it. It would appear at the moment that the criteria is just "people that I think are good". That is open to abuse as it has a bearing on the influence certain...
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- Anton Mannering
from twhirl
I bet $10 you are mentally handicapped :D
- coldbrew
Wow, I think you can get posted in Who's Who for only $35. Who cares?
- Todd Kulick
Well, it's either pay up or join the train of Twitter users who wave through the system and are fast approaching 40,000 followers even though you've never heard of them, nor have they ever added anything of value to your life. Coercion is a bitch.
- matt
gila kuasa, gila nama... (power crazy, name crazy!)
- Pajama Domain
How do I get on this list? I have all this money that Obama gave me to spend to stimulate the economy. Can I stimulate Twitter's economy? Where do I mail the check?
- Stephen Antonucci
This is a provocative post, Robert. iJustine did give Evan cupcakes. I remember their public exchange and acknowledgment. Was that a coerced coincidence or just innocent cavity propagation? I think the real power of the "suggested" followers "scam" is choosing high profile folks while including the lesser folks you have been calling out. The nobodies who are now the most popular proves...
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- David W. Boles
There are a lot of comments, so if this is duplicating what someone else said - so sorry :) If you want a great way to get a REAL recommended list, head over to HubSpot's Twitter Grader - get graded and there will be a recommended list below.
- Mitch Canter
lolololol
- "Joey"
Not trying to bash anyone, but I'm curious as to why people think that twitter is under any obligation to make their free service "open". Twitter seems to be saying that they reject the meaning of twitter follower counts as defined by others. Twitter's ultimate goal, I think, isn't to be a public service so much as to be a profitable company. "Their house, their rules" so to speak. If people want an open system, then they would probably prefer services like those that Leo Laporte proposes.
- James Brodman
James: For me it sorta boils down to a monopoly power argument. What's wrong with Twitter not being open (and thereby controlling the "micromessaging" market/protocol) is the same thing that's wrong with AT&T controlling the phone service market or Microsoft controlling the operating system market.
- Ken Sheppardson
Robert, by your metric, wouldn't any celebrity (tech geek or otherwise) also have an unfair (and unmeritorious) advantage in getting followers? Thus, having unfair influence? Veronica, you did get a gift. However, I am not sure you can earn a gift.
- Rob McNealy
"promotional consideration" disclaimers are standard practice in TV game shows. Why not on Twitter?
- Michael Markman
Why $10,000? Do you a have a copy of a check or a receipt or some such?
- Chuck Baggett
Soros sees no bottom for world financial collapse - http://www.reuters.com/article...
Moses Kpetigo, Thomas Frütel, Patarakin and 61 other people liked this
""We witnessed the collapse of the financial system," Soros said at a Columbia University dinner. "It was placed on life support, and it's still on life support. There's no sign that we are anywhere near a bottom.""
- Louis Gray
from Bookmarklet
And what's the bad news?
- Michael Fidler
This is very disturbing. :(
- Susan Beebe
Michael, the bad news is: we are living inside this system that is currently on life support.
- Detlef Cordes
Soros is definitely more entertaining than Buffett for his sound bytes.
- Cole Jolley
That's what scares me most. It's not a recession/depression - it's finding the bottom to this thing so people can quit worrying so much about how bad it's going to get and start thinking towards how to get better from it.
- Ken Stewart | ChangeForge
Why would we wait to reach the bottom before we start fixing it? Are we that lazy/masochistic?
- deusdiabolus
But what's the fix? We are living inside a system on life support, with multi organ failure - but to we have a diagnosis? Do we know the exact causes? Money glut? Savings glut?
- Detlef Cordes
there is no fix, the system has failed. the replacement is already in place, but the banks and brokerages wont acknowledge this because they are not part of the new system, of course politicians and governments will continue to fund proejcts and electoral promises with hollow instruments of credit for a few quarters yet, this too will end.cash rich societies and governments are already...
more...
- atul abraham
from twhirl
atul abraham, please help me: I don't see that replacement. Where is the real collateral? Real estate? Short term credit? For whom? The US government?
- Detlef Cordes
I'm in Atul's camp. Sounds like the solution is increased ownership to step in where decay is most severe.
- Mike Reynolds
Hey postlinearity. Would you like to share what this new paradigm is about?
- Detlef Cordes
And yes the other paradigm is that people will be less likely to overspend.
- Mike Reynolds
I don't understand the point of the article. So tell us something we DON'T know? "Experts" that don't offer solutions or directions <<<
- Mona Nomura
Mona, you might find this article interesting and disturbing: http://www.kitco.com/ind...
- Aaman (Clone of FF)
I've been sharing Putin articles since I started FriendFeed but no one seems to find them interesting. South America is another to watch, too. This is nothing new (to me).
- Mona Nomura
here is how i see it - 1 ) consumerism based on credit write -offs = NOT GOOD 2 ) govt.s ( like the US and the UK govt ) issueing credit notes dependent on a workforce out of work, dependent on brands that arent solvent, dependent on home prices that nobody can afford, isnt only plain crazy, it is suicidal -- TARP and the entire stimuls package is life - support to a body that has...
more...
- atul abraham
from twhirl
post cut short - thats cool - Detlef, just use google its all out there, thnx,
- atul abraham
from twhirl
The US govt. are a bunch of morons. I'm still stuck on WHY they approved a bail-out for AIG. They have 10is subsidiaries they could've sold off. And what's going on with small businesses? No love for them, either. Whatever - I choose not to care since they're so dumb it's annoying.
- Mona Nomura
The US (and perhaps other countries) has been living well beyond our means for nearly 30 years. No one quite understands how the advent of easy credit and a "me, now" culture has created a massive ponzi scheme of our own making. One Trillion dollars in US revolving debt! It's simply not sustainable and the tipping point has finally come. Stimulus is like spitting into a hurricane. This is going to take years, not months.
- AJ Kohn
AJ - it's what our country was built on. We're a capitalistic society filled with the "me me me" mentality.
- Mona Nomura
@Mona: True. But we didn't give that society the ability to indulge in "me me me" until the late 70s. Credit Cards, easy credit and lower taxes all created an army of Gordon Geckos who believed over-extending was the new American way.
- AJ Kohn
AJ gets it.
- MVB (Grinch of FF)
RIght - so it's intertwined. It's only natural to be greedy and only a matter of time until those desires were enabled. Reagan was one of the worst things to happen to this country. Opening up trade? Are you kidding me? Ugh, I'm sorry but I have to hide this thread. Thinking about this is going to ruin my day.
- Mona Nomura
@aj: actually, as i understand it, credit cards are just the encapsulation of a concept that began right after WWII: buying things on "time." in order to get the economy going again after the war, banks and retailers introduced this concept. before then, other than homes, people didn't usually buy things unless they could pay in cash. the credit card just simplified this buy now, pay later process...which is now abused.
- .LAG liked that
@ LAG: teh way to kick start the " world economy " post WW2 was to make massive consumerism easier, it wasnt just credit, it was malls coming to your bakyard, it was instant shipping, it was Asian sweatshops, it was Africas un ending need for weaponary leading to massive defence contracts, ... it was a blunt thrust at world dominance that American Inc. screwed up royally : ). WMDs in Iraq and all.
- atul abraham
from twhirl
@atul... i agree: making mass consumerism easier was the post WWII goal. and i think that the massive financial problems that we're dealing with right now ask the next question: what do you do after mass consumerism stops working? i won't completely blame America for this: the leaders in your Asias and Africas and Iraqs, and elsewhere, are equally complicit.
- .LAG liked that
@ .LAG - to me its very simple - a Vietnamese or Indian, or Chinese software programmer ( my profession ) will not only charge 10 % of a programmer in the EU ( where i live and work ) but also TRULY kick ass. helping Asia and Africas´ poorer parts to compete internationally will lay the foundation for a new generation of companies that do " micro-profits " for each employee, not massive...
more...
- atul abraham
from twhirl
errata : time, PS : its half past 8 pm here, i have a Monday that starts at 5 am tmrw. saving the wolds ass has GOT to wait. good night.
- atul abraham
from twhirl
our society is based on debt, what did they think would happen? don't borrow money you don't have, simple.
- Adam Singer
Get rid of fractional reserve banking... move to full reserve banking..issue greenbacks to grow the economy without increasing debt. Printing money at the same time you raise the reserve requirement for banks to lend money from 10% to 100% cancels out the risk of hyperinflation.
- Patty Seybold
that Putin-on-white-horse-in-Davos story ... puhleeeeeeeeese... ask mr.Khodorkovsky, he will tell you rest-of-story - right after (and IF ever) gets out, stripped from billion estate...
- A.T.
he's right
- Bob Sonin
@postlinearity so there's no hope for US economy then? Millions aren't likely to change unless in face of major catastrophe... economic or some other kind.
- andrei_c
SURVEY: If social media is intended to help people be social, how do you start or extend your conversations using social media tools?
Wallace, Susan Beebe, Mona Nomura and 2 other people liked this
I was hoping this was multiple choice.
- Phil Yanov
I think "social" is the wrong word. Everyone uses it (including myself) but it is misleading. I think it should be connection media. I view "social" media as a way to connect oneself with information and people. Some encourage social aspects (such as FriendFeed and Twitter), but ultimately, we are here to connect with more data/information. (sorry, this wasn't answering your question exactly)
- Justin Korn
You crack me up, Phil.
- Ken Stewart | ChangeForge
To answer your question, I have met individuals through "social" media and connected with them via email later on to actually socialize with them. I used Twitter, FriendFeed, and my Blog to find those with similar interest in order to start that initial conversation...
- Justin Korn
Justin, so you would see "connected media" as a means to extend your realm of connections vs. connecting with people you already know (in meat-space)?
- Ken Stewart | ChangeForge
Use a SocialToo SocialSurvey! ;-)
- Jesse Stay
Jesse, I was actually looking for conversation ;-)
- Ken Stewart | ChangeForge
Sorry, been out socializing, will try to comment further tomorrow (intoxicated)
- Justin Korn
Be careful, Justin. Commenting while intoxicated can be dangerous ;-)
- Ken Stewart | ChangeForge
Ken, SocialSurveys provide comments below each survey to encourage conversation. Comments go out to Twitter with a link back to the survey.
- Jesse Stay
Ken - Thanks for the warning...I shouldn't have been online last night :) As for your questions - I think it really depends on the network in question. For FriendFeed, Twitter, and even LinkedIn, I'd say yes, I use these networks to extend my realm connections. Facebook is a different beast, but for the most part, I use that one to connect and stay up-to-date with the people I already know.
- Justin Korn
comments and converstation have a very finite life, like news
- Bob Sonin
Jesse, yes I know :-) Comments and conversation are indeed 2 separate things my friend.
- Ken Stewart | ChangeForge
Bob, I think that is perhaps the smartest thing I've heard anyone say today - or maybe even this weekend ;-)
- Ken Stewart | ChangeForge
Justin, that echoes what I typically find... however, I'm investigating using FB for other things than simply keep up to date with those I now.
- Ken Stewart | ChangeForge
I'm on live now on Joel Comm's http://www.tweetathon2009.com -- lots of other cool people are on after me too.
Daniel Rowley, Alfredo, Suzie Cheel and Daynah liked this
Already watching! :)
- Daynah
hey robert, tweet delay about 50sec aft FF post
- JuneM
Robert, what are you thinking about FF, looks like you've pulled back a fair bit
- Bob Sonin
Bob: I pulled back cause I was busy in Seattle meeting lots of geeks. Gave three speeches, had three meetups, in two days and did six interviews. Whew.
- Robert Scoble
Should PR agencies and social media vendors walk the talk when it comes to social media? http://www.web-strategist.com/blog...
Robert Scoble, Hutch Carpenter, Dan Morrill AKA Techwag and Rodney Rumford liked this
of course they should. they should be practitioners and eat their own dog food. anyone that does not and tries to sell their services/products is full of it.
- Rodney Rumford
you bet they should..the smart ones realize in order to take a larger piece of the interactive pie they have to be savvy on all social media fronts..tools,adoption,metrics,integration etc..
- George Dearing
How would anyone consider using a social media vendor who is not using the platforms themselves?
- Chris Frost
They should just stop talking.
- Shawn Farner
PR is a waste of time/money in social media
- Bob Sonin
+1 Chris Frost and Rodney
- Hutch Carpenter
No Arrington.... No TechCrunch - http://whatisgoodwhatisbad.blogspot.com/2009...
Sarah to the rescue?
- Bob Sonin
Friendfeed's User and Usability Problem - http://www.centernetworks.com/friendf...
Greg Guitarbuster, Nicholas James, Ken Stewart | ChangeForge and 43 other people liked this
succinct Allen, don't believe these are addressable in a simple fashion and as such FF stays as a "super early adopter" tool, but mainstream, eh no way
- Bob Sonin
And as an early adopter tool, it is providing a good framework to start from, but agree with Bob, certainly not ready for mainstream.
- James Fridley
Some good points, some of which I've noticed myself (the twitter / FF crosstalk particularly). I don't see a particularly good solution to any of them due to the architecture of the pieces involved. I'm not sure I agree with the desire for organization tools for FriendFeed, but that reflects my personal bias against making me "work" for content. I like gmail because I no longer have to categorize and organize my mail, instead depending on search.
- mikepk
The solution on this is going to be when FriendFeed is consolidated with Twitter. The way the economy is going these types of consolidations are going to be happening sooner than we otherwise would have thought.
- Wayne Schulz
Apart from Robert and Louis the conversation is weak. The rate of commentary and participation is diminishing at ~10% / month... it needs to be going the other way
- Bob Sonin
So Bob, how do you think that gets solved?
- Louis Gray
Louis: i need the ability to more easily shove stuff into rooms. I can't put RSS feeds in there. Twitter search RSS feeds aren't working again and I can't build a search query here and shove stuff into rooms. Rooms are the secret to friendfeed's success because we can keep conversations small.
- Robert Scoble
Also, pros need to be able to make money here. Right now pros are being forced to spend time on their blogs and not participating here. Why? Because someone like Huffington or Techcrunch will get paid for building page views on their blogs, but not in spending time here. It is the pros that keep things interesting -- I'm under the same pressures, by the way, I've just been ignoring them.
- Robert Scoble
Bob: you can put feeds in rooms now can't you? I've got a couple of rooms setup with feeds going into them
- Glenn Slaven
I do like the idea of achiving ghost users, the talking to noone issue can be a problem. Although having said that I have seen good discussions come out of such posts. Not involving the author obviously, but others around it.
- Glenn Slaven
Glenn: I just opened a new room and tried shoving a feed from http://search.twitter.com into it and it rejected the feed. Also, you can not do a feed in friendfeed (from say a search term) and add that into a room.
- Robert Scoble
Gotta agree with the last comment on the blog, only issue I have with friendfeed are the cliques. At times it feels like I'm back in HS and jumping in on the conversion would make me that weird kid who hangs around for some odd reason. Great post allen
- BCK
Robert: I just added the twitter search for the #Australia hash tag into the Australia room: http://friendfeed.com/rooms... worked out fine. It's true you can't include a FF search feed in a room, not sure whether than's an oversight or a deliberate exclusion
- Glenn Slaven
Louis, I don't think it needs to be solved, it's a niche market/audience around promotion of ideas/thoughts/products and that's fine, it isn't a mainstream service; they will need to work out how to keep Robert et al happy or else there won't be much participation as it begins to negatively impact personal earning power
- Bob Sonin
++ BCK there is an early adopter elite that stroke each other's egos but little of substance discussed - eg cats, gadgets, babies trump gaza holocaust and other real life issues - twitter actually has much more intelligent interaction in 140 with excellent exchange of info.
- ernie yacub
ernie: you got to be kidding me. I'm watching tens of thousands of tweets and 99.999999999% of tweets are totally lame. Want me to give you some examples? Heck, just on my screen now "early flight Monday." Yeah, really intelligent!
- Robert Scoble
"Interaction" on Twitter? Twitter is a megaphone medium and nothing but. FF is where conversation is at. Most people who are complaining about lack of value on FF haven't discovered views or how to manage their feed properly.
- Mo Kargas
Try taking the FF search feed url, dumping it into Y! Pipes, possibly combining or filtering, and bring the Pipe back into FF.
- coldbrew
wow coldbrew - why don't we all just spend all day working on ff :)
- Allen Stern
Would like to see a feature to follow particular parts of subscribed feeds, ie. options to choose not to view Flickr feed from a particular user.
- Chris Frost
Commented on your blog Allen - for a reason :)
- Charlie Anzman
thank you charlie :)
- Allen Stern
Very nice post. The loneliness of early adopters versus mainstream masses .. and a huge gap between them!
- Jan Horna
I do have some yahoo pipes pulling in data, it was the only way to manipulate and shape data into FF funnel!!
- Susan Beebe
Robert: i think you may have a noise to signal problem.
- ernie yacub
more exciting js-kit news coming this week! :)
what sort of stuff?
- Bob Sonin
Valentine dinner thought: Google wishes it were Microsoft. Facebook wishes it were Google. Twitter wishes it was Facebook. Friendfeed wishes it was Twitter. Me? I think friendfeed is in the best position.
Rubin Sfadj, Lakshman Prasad, Benno and 102 other people liked this
We are geeks, shoot us.
- Robert Scoble
How romantic!!
- DHS
I concur
- Shevonne
What about Yahoo? AOL? ;)
- Nicholas James
Nope. The TwitterDudes get: the more minimalist they are, the more they win.
- Ed Shahzade /NextInstinct
Nicholas: they just wish they mattered.
- Robert Scoble
Just curious, are you considering this a hierarchy then, with Microsoft on top?
- Tyler Brownfield
I Follow about 150 people here on Friendfeed and I only know of one hyperactive User.....
- paul mooney
Tyler: or is Microsoft on the bottom? You decide! :-)
- Robert Scoble
Paul: I know Louis Gray too!
- Robert Scoble
& I wish I was Robert Scoble
- sofarsoShawn
kinda funny with the new guy talking about cloud computing you think that ms wants to be google...
- Terry O'Fee
i dont think any of them are going to matter if they dont make money... ms/google are doing the best money wise
- Terry O'Fee
And everyone is thankful they are not Pownce. (ok that was kinda mean - six apart should do something cool with it... right? )
- Derek Overdahl
I think friendfeed is annoying... Especially when people post links from Twitter to their FF or to other people's FF's... But you, Mr Scoble, are cool. :)
- Nicki Laycoax
six apart?? lol. have you seen livejournal lately??
- Terry O'Fee
@Terry: Twitter doesn't need to make money at the moment. They've just raised a further $35million. That doesn't necessarily mean that it is worthless.
- Nicholas James
Robert's having entirely the wrong kinds of thoughts over Valentine's dinner.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
the money isnt going to continue to roll in all of the time. im not saying its worthless (far from it!) but hopefully they're starting to go in that direction instead of sitting on their hands..
- Terry O'Fee
Terry: the focus on money is misplaced. But that's OK. Anyone who has an audience of millions and isn't able to make money isn't trying very hard.
- Robert Scoble
Tina: we won't tell you our real thoughts. But Maryam is happy. Oh, so happy she dropped me off at the Apple store for a minute. :-)
- Robert Scoble
i wish i was a freakin' kick ass iPhone app developer after reading how one guy made $600K so far on one little game. http://tinyurl.com/d4g3fp
- Christine Lu
Romance fail? :p
- Josh Haley
Josh: no, I'm in love even more with Maryam now than ever. She puts up with my geeky conversation.
- Robert Scoble
Keep up the good work. You know which work I mean!
- Josh Haley
Who's this other social network "Maryam"??!?!! I thought you were all friendfeed?
- sofarsoShawn
Maryam is a facebook'er. Sigh. But I love her anyway.
- Robert Scoble
Facebook's still in a pretty good position. They just need to get their stuff for businesses in order and remove the 5,000 friend cap.
- Jesse Stay
Facebook is soooo over, we are now in Friendfeed time
- paul mooney
Robert Loves FF ... how cute!! And FF <3 loves him back! :)
- Susan Beebe
I love optimism but I'm not drinking this kool-aid.
- Shawn Farner
Well, I don't think you've got the who wants to be who right but I *do* think FF is in the best position.
- AJ Kohn
Paul Mooney, you may be right in two years. But 2009 is Facebook's year, and 2010 probably will be too.
- Bruce Lewis
Funny point, Robert. My analysis of your topic: Google wants the experience of Microsoft - particularly in the political lobbying area, Facebook wants an ad revenue model that makes them money, Twitter wants to be able to sell marketing information on its users interaction, and FriendFeed wants the lime light that has been glistening over Twitter.
- Tyler Brownfield
Bruce, this may turn out to be the year of the cockroaches http://friendfeed.com/rooms...
- paul mooney
Everyone wishes they were Apple.
- Sebastian
well robert it's not a very smart place to be in at the moment. yes, i know that everything isnt about money but wouldnt they want to make something of this??
- Terry O'Fee
Friendfeed & Scobleizer 67.5 % http://valentwine.com/
- paul mooney
Terry: Google was in the exact same place in 2001. It didn't worry them. Facebook hired Sheryl Sandberg because she was at Google back then and knows how to turn the corner.
- Robert Scoble
you really are a comedian, back it up
- Bob Sonin
back then and right now are two very different times for people... i dont know, id be worried robert. at least all of these programs should be looking towards a paid optional version.
- Terry O'Fee
Ff seems like it is good for alisters with 20k followers who get a lot of replies/dm's and want to go back later and have the comments all organized and packaged. For the rest of us mortals Twitter is enuf.
- mal
Ahh, yet another naval-gazing discussion about FriendFeed on FriendFeed :)
- Ian Betteridge
Yes well I load heavy armaments on my destroyers, how about you? I like my fleet nimble, aircraft carriers are just soooo sloooow wtfomg
- Brian Hendrickson
This made me laugh and is sooo true! Hope you had an awesome weekend Robert! :)
- Justin Levy
Chrome wants IE's surf-share
- Brian Hendrickson
Yahoo wishes it was Yahoo!
- Iggy Kin
i wish i was brad pitt or seth rogin.
- Pokai
I can see how Friend Feed wants to be Twitter. Twitter is garnering such momentum in media, it's certainly the hottest site currently.
- Maria Nieves
Microsoft definitely wishes it were Google in the online advertising field.
- Phillip Stewart
I still like FF the best, although I sometimes get a tad frustrated. Think it might be as close to ideal as possible, though. I think they are all moving closer together and eventually it will be hard to distinguish between them. I mean "Likes" on Facebook? that is confusing me.
- Martha
Just booked Spring Training 2009 trip for mid-March just after SXSW. First time taking the twins and indoctrinating them in baseball fandom.
Jesse Stay, Ed Shahzade /NextInstinct, Susan Beebe and Jeff (the マクダジ of FF) liked this
baseball is good for the soul; hopefully by the time they grow up there will be fewer *
- Bob Sonin
Great Stupid Piece Of Shit - http://www.loiclemeur.com/english...
it's not nice to talk about you know who like that
- Bob Sonin
Facebook Cannot Steal FriendFeed's Soul - http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...
Tyson Key, Shey, Jamaican of FF, Thomas Hawk and 40 other people liked this
FriendFeed is Forever!
- Tyson Key
i think we're all pretty harsh on facebook really, sure "likes" are a pretty big feature here on Friendfeed...but come on now, it's not the be all end all. Friendfeeds entire news stream stemmed from Facebook
- Zee.
Facebook's version is pretty damn spammy on your own Profile. There's gotta be a way to manage it.
- Glenn Batuyong
I am a strong believer that each Social platform has its own set of advantages, and the fact that some of them "steal" things from one another, the basic premise of their existence is very different, and can be used in a parallel fashion, without eating each other. I've posted some thoughts on my blog, which you can read here: http://cli.gs/Z7gujE
- Jorge Escobar
from FriendFeed MT Plugin
Personally I like the fact that FB added a "like" button... I think FB and FF are currently being used for different purposes. FB is much less about content/links than FF is. Having a simple "like" against status updates is very useful
- Bindu Reddy
Sarah - did you notice the 'like's are no longer published on our walls? Facebook keeps screwing with the functions and it's irritating me LOL
- Mona Nomura
I almost betrayed friendfeed by joining tweetdeck in order to find my @ replies. But nothing can compare to FF.
- @CrystalinaB
Zuckerbum! The REVOLUTION is HERE!
- sofarsoShawn
quality always wins, unless you're not in a capitalist/democratic structure
- Bob Sonin
@mona: oh nooes :(
- Sarah Perez
Well said, app. You hit it on the head. FriendFeed better not die. I liked Facebook for a very brief time, and now I can't stand it. I only have to check into it periodically because all my family and some friends are there and not on FF.
- Kamilah Gill
from FriendFeed MT Plugin
Cooliris - For People Who Like to Waste Time - http://whatisgoodwhatisbad.blogspot.com/2009...
TED talks are so illuminating, support this assertion
- Bob Sonin
There are days I would rather go without food than without WiFi. Unfortunately, I am currently missing both.
Darren Heydon, ♥ Stephiepooos ♥, Morton Fox and 20 other people liked this
Hope you have both hungers satisfied soon!
- Ladybug Heather
i guess it is easier to use wifi (assuming you have a computer) to forget about hunger than to make food entertain you all day
- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
What happened to the food? As you can tell, my priorities are all messed up :)
- MiaD
Get the wifi fixed and order food online
- Shevonne
Still in Vegas. Company didn't pay for WiFi in the meeting room for the last half day. And... I blogged through breakfast from the hotel room. Should have stayed there! More to do!
- Louis Gray
I think food and WiFi are at the same level on Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.
- Martha
No wifi? the horror!
- Sarah Perez
Went without internet for 6 months once. Stupid phone company was working on the lines (it was a rural town). grrr Thought I'd die.
- Roberto Bonini
Time for a burger and fries
- Bob Sonin
This blog is dead! ORLY? - http://scobleizer.com/2009...
Andrew Terry, Steve Rubel, Bill Romanos and 20 other people liked this
there should be something between blogs and twitter.
- Cem Dalgic
@cem According to the recent Arrington/Scoble discussion that something is FriendFeed.
- Gordon Saunders
IMO, Blogging/Blogs have actually been helped by both Twitter and FriendFeed. A blog is great if you have something substantial to say. You than use FF or Twiiter to promote your blog post. More blogs have become discoverable because of these tools. Pretty sure Blogger's traffic graph is going up not down
- Bindu Reddy
Thanks Robert. I actually went back and reviewed some offline “diary” posts that I did back in the day. It reminded me of Twitter. From 1999-2005 I had a Livejournal blog. Those entries were 5 times a day, consisted of a few sentences and looked exactly like my tweets today. Interesting how Twitter has become my blog now. I am still blogging but certainly not as often.
- Adam Jackson
@G. Saunders sure but there is still a bunch of links to main blogs etc. there should be an algorithm which extracts an executive summary out of blogs into 3-5 lines.
- Cem Dalgic
IMHO its a matter of what you have to say! If it is just something quick and to the point then twitter (or similar) is probably the way to go but if you need to make a more important statement or be more expletive then you need your blog!
- Thomas V. Fischer
Actually I find finding “Marketing Guru”s amusing in twitter. Maybe that’s the most funny thing about my twitter experience. I’ve realized that ‘being a husband’ makes you ‘more human’ when you are a Marketing Guru :) Anyway, back to the subject, I’ve always preferred longer posts than 140 characters, but all these tools are great for different purposes and audience. I think neither blogging, nor twitter/facebook will DIE. hehe. I should learn how to use FriendFeed efficiently though...
- ilter
hah, for a second there, I thought you called my name...
- Orli Yakuel
so which social networks are you going to spend less time on?? Has Arrington become the voice of reason or the appreciation that only you can monetize your own content
- Bob Sonin
Bob, I think you'll see me spend less time on all of them, including friendfeed. Now that I don't have a producer I'm having to do a ton more work, so that will affect my ability to participate here too.
- Robert Scoble
such grandiose statements are best left for SciFi original movies.
- Mister Groonk
from twhirl
postlinearity: can you get it on Google Reader?
- Robert Scoble
Dead? such a harsh word? Is that the politically correct term? ;)
- Sean
Getting back to "blogdom" to reveal longer thoughts is always welcomed
- Shevonne
keep on delivering quality robert
- Bob Sonin
Twitter is for quick links and thoughts, Blogging is for expanded concepts that need qualification. Blogs are for branding also.
- Chris Frost
What about Tumblr and Posterous for something inbetween? If Twitter is a microblog, they appear to be miniblogs. (Don't ask me about nanoblogs or megablogs!) I've not used, but am tempted to try.
- Carolyn
I can't decide between a Storm or the iPhone (yes I [Mr. Apple Naysayer] am actually considering it for the features)
Tyson Key, @CrystalinaB, iMorpheus and 17 other people liked this
It's hard to swallow no Wifi on the Storm, but the iPhone doesn't even do video [natively] and has a lower screen resolution and crappier camera.
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
I heard bad things about the Storm.
- Shevonne
Yes, Storms are generally bad =P
- vijay
I am a huge BlackBerry fan, but I have heard nothing but bad about the Storm.
- Michelle Martinez
But very romantic for valentines.
- Todd Hoff
have you tried the storm? the push button screen is annoying
- Richard Lawler
You should think about the Curve if going the Blackberry route.
- Shevonne
Have you looked at the HTC Touch Pro? Although you are likely on Rogers so maybe they don't have it. WiFi, video, 3.2 MP camera, nice interface, active sync for GMail, Google Maps with GPS. I like mine a lot.
- Kenton
Storm is nice in theory, but not in implementation. If you're gonna go BB, look at the Bold. Also, the iPhone has MAD apps. Something to think about. I like my Apple stuff, but I'm no fanboy. And I love mine.
- Derrick
@Shevonne There's been a lot of iPhone fan-people who have been spreading a lot of crap about the Storm. I've played with it alot and it's downright sexy. @Richard I love the clickscreen, it's a great idea.
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
If I were you I would also consider the BB Bold.
- Michelle Martinez
I have heard negative stuff about the Storm. And seeing the commercial where they type on the screen and every letter clicks makes me think I would go insane using it. Between the two I'd pick the iPhone. But I will also say that I love my Android G1! :)
- Fa La La La Lindsay
Bold >> Curve?
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
I just recently switched from a BlackBerry to the iPhone. Both have their advantages/disadvantages. Both data plans are $30/mo. (at least, mine was on VZW) and, for me, the iPhone makes that $30 much more worth it. Way better browsing experience and a lot more apps.
- Shawn Farner
Check out Cnet Reviews. That is where I get all my tech reviews: http://www.cnet.com/?tag=hdr
- Shevonne
Shey - wait! All the new phones are coming, which means 1) you will have more options and 2) the prices will drop. Seriously, wait.
- Mona Nomura
iPhone. I don't understand why anyone would use a blackberry (i've spent all morning wrestling with one -- they cache SSL pages -- WTH)
- RAPatton
@Mona what new phones?
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
There are tons coming out. New Curve, new iPhone, Samsung, etc. etc.
- Shevonne
@Shevonne @Mona The sad part is it will take forever for those phones to come to Canada. I HATE the Canadian telecom market
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
Isn't Microsoft rumored to be coming out with one as well?
- Shevonne
@Shey =( You can't get an unlocked one on Ebay? It's just like here. Europe and Asia have phones we'll never get our hands. Makes me green with envy.
- Shevonne
@Shevonne, I think everyone has pretty much agreed that the MSFT phone rumors were about software/services for Windows Mobile and not a MSFT-branded phone
- Alan Cheslow
@Shevonne E-bay? *shudder*
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
The Bold is supposed to be better than the Curve, larger keys, better camera, wi-fi. My dad has one and likes it.
- Michelle Martinez
There are tons of Androids in the pipeline (which personally I'm excited for) as well as the... wait for it... PALM PRE and the iPhone 3rd gen. Seriously, wait.
- Mona Nomura
Yes iPhone pix blow, but I use the wifi ALL the time and take pictures with my camera.
- Kelly W.
Former Crackberry addict --- GO FOR THE iPHONE! really really really better!
- Susan Beebe
iPhone. I can't remember what my life was before I had an iPhone. Honestly.
- Baard @ Pixum
If your going to get a Blackberry, go with the Bold. Otherwise, the iPhone sounds better like a better choice.
- Michael Fidler
Android :)
- Mike Fruchter
wow, i tried the storm that my lawyer had. it thoroughly sucked. he returned it in 3 days saying that he is faster on his Touch (can't have att phone, poor bastard). wait for the new iphone. sure to kick everyone's ass again...
- tommy payne
from twhirl
I'm really close to getting an iPhone. Really close...
- Karoli
I'm not a BB guy (i'm on my 2nd iPhone) but if you want to do more than email from the phone - go with the iPhone. Internet access is unparalleled - Safari alone would be enough of a win, but couple that with socnet specific apps and it's a hands down winner. If you were considering a storm, you're ok with the soft keyboard and unless you really, really need it to do video (which you may be able to do if you jailbreak?) the iPhone's gotta be the way. :)
- felix
I'm BB all the way, but when it comes to qwerty as to the Storm: dunno
- sofarsoShawn
I think I am going to go with the Palm Pre.
- Jauder Ho
Palm Pre, or Nokia N97!
- Tyson Key
(Although I'm biased in favour of Symbian OS-based devices)
- Tyson Key
Mona++, WAIT. If you don't wait a while, you'll be pissed. If you think about it, both of these phones are already old news
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
@Abby I think I'm just going to wait until August when the contract expires and see what pops up then. Jas and I both need new phones
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
Is the Wal-Mart $100 iphone rumor still going?
- sofarsoShawn
Shey go for the storm. People just steal iPhones on Bart (true story)
- @CrystalinaB
wait for more android phones dude
- Bob Sonin
The Storm is awesome. Love mine.
- Scott Maentz
Buy the iPhone—no doubt. There are some interesting things about Android and the Palm Pre. However, neither of them has the goods to catch Apple in features or variety of 3rd-party apps. Apple is just on version 2.2.1; version 3.0 of the software (and likely the hardware) will be out around June-ish, which should result in another jump in features and capabilities. Like with the iPod, Apple has a lead they will not lose.
- Albert Willis
iPhone vs. the Storm. Most of the hardware is comparable, but Apple has the advantage with software, with the AppStore, etc. Video capture on non-jailbroken phones is coming. And no wi-fi on the Storm is a deal breaker. I mean, that's just nuts. Mobile Safari was great when it was released and continues to get better and better. I do an amazing amount of surfing on the iPhone—it matters.
- Albert Willis
iPhone is as far as i saw not able to forward SMS messages and all music once put in it is hard to retrieve. it has no bluetooth and has no ability to deal with business cards... or?
- Hayk H.
love my iphone. besides a shuffle, it's the only apple product i own.
- cjmart
Yep - no SMS forwarding. And no sending contact vcards ( or otheer contact format). The iPhone will read a vcard but wont send. Much to my distinct distste. But i can live with it.
- Roberto Bonini
iPhone all the way. If you jailbreak, you can fix the missing features.
- Mohamed J
i bought a HTC Touch HD, and as much as it is windows mobile 6.1 based, so far i like it a lot! it is not necessarily as easy in autorotating as iPhone - remedy is called GSen - but it is arguably better and has better charactereistics than iPhone. so perhaps consider it as well.
- Hayk H.
Facebook Activates “Like” Button; FriendFeed Tires Of Sincere Flattery - http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
Kol Tregaskes, Tom Moore, B2B Specialist and 62 other people liked this
"Facebook has just activated a new feature that allows users to leave “Like” labels on photos, notes, and other items across the network. The feature, which is nearly identical to one on FriendFeed, was first seen in a demo video last month but has not been available to the public. According to Facebook’s blog post on the feature, users will be able to say that they “Like” something whenever they leave a comment. It appears that the feature is being gradually being rolled out, because I can’t seem to find it anywhere. Facebook has stepped on FriendFeed’s toes with a few other features, including the ability to import activity items from third party sites into your News Feed and the fusion of microblogging with activity streams. We should note that it was Facebook that really popularized activity streams in the first place, and these improvements may well have come about eventually even without FriendFeed’s inspiration."
- Susan Beebe
from Bookmarklet
I just "liked" my OWN posted item on Facebook - FAIL ... hahahaha!
- Susan Beebe
huh. "FriendFeed's inspiration." Seems like they deserve more credit than that.
- Pete Delucchi
Friendfeed CREATED the "like" concept, not just inspired it
- Susan Beebe
I am curious how the facebook user community will adopt this new feature (copied from FF)
- Susan Beebe
Votes, favorites, diggs, retweets, likes...is there really a difference other than the word chosen?
- coldbrew
As long as it doesn't go the other way around where FriendFeed asks me for a birth certificate with the first name "Ontario" on it.
- Ontario Emperor
from fftogo
Facebook's "like" feature doesn't bump items up in the feed.
- Morton Fox
Shameless Ctrl C + Ctrl V.
- Jonathon
Facebook can bite me
- BEX
Apparently the Facebook "like" feature, when clicked, does not promote items to the top of one's feed.
- Susan Beebe
My understanding is that when a comment is made, it is counted as a like (per the TC post). [EDIT: worded funny, not true]
- coldbrew
I am still unclear to what it does - and I've been liking stuff for the past 15 minutes LOL
- Mona Nomura
Mona - hahahah! I think it's interesting that FB failed to add any new on screen assistance / pointers to highlight this new feature and help users understand its functionality... hmm
- Susan Beebe
"...users will be able to say that they “Like” something whenever they leave a comment." - So when one goes to make a comment, the "button" will be made visible.
- coldbrew
I'm guessing this gives users involved in the item a status message (when someone else likes the post). If not, I can't see much of a point. These likes will be largely missed! Well, if they implement it poorly for now, they can always fix it.
- Zach Landes
FB probably had this brewing for months/years, unfair to say they copied it, same would be saying that FF copied FB's feed feature i.e. their whole lingua franca
- Bob Sonin
Using the Like button does post this knowledge to your own profile, e.g. "Victoria likes Amy Jean ******'s posted item. 11:26pm. It provides a link to the item as well as a link to the original posters profile.
- Victoria Plautia
This will be really interesting to see how folks at my office figure it out! LOL
- Susan Beebe
+1 coldbrew
- Tyson Key
Anyone else remember the thumbs up and thumbs down thing they had on there a while back? That to me never did anything at all, no matter how much i dugg down (come on, they ripped that off as well) items i didnt want to see, i still got similar ones come up. So, i wonder if this is a keeper for them if it does nothing, i can like stuff but it doesnt seem to show up anywhere, and i cant keep track of items i have liked.
- Simon Wicks
I don't think Facebook gets it yet.
- Terence
I am sure most FB users are unaware of Friendfeed and Twitter, so these features will seem new and exciting to them.
- Nick
So bizzare. Just yesterday I was wishing I could "like" in Facebook. Ryo: I'm unsure a FF profile anymore than what have now is a good idea. Isn't one of the points of FF is we have too many profiles floating around already? The FF profile greasemonkey script works well.
- Paul Reynolds
from BuddyFeed
it's funny how everyone here hates FB...too bad 200 million, including myself, say otherwise. as long as FB doesn't royally screw up, that (and twitter) will be where *it's* at
- stanleyyork
all this "FB copied FF" hating going on - I'm wondering - do you believe that no one else should be able to have a "like" button because FF has one? And do you really see a significant difference between FF's like and Digg/Reddit/Stumbleupon's like icons? Wouldn't you prefer if sites all became better using the best features available?
- felix
The browser side script pulls in other peoples LinkedIn and Twitter bio's for *you* to read. Not others to read yours (that would be silly indeed). Why can't you embed your FriendFeed on your homepage? Isn't that the ultimate profile? http://screwtheman.com
- Paul Reynolds
It's so crippled though - it seems you can only like status messages so far, not photos etc - until i can easily 'like' as i scroll past everything in my news feed, i'm not that interested
- Kevin
Jason - I too am concerned about that
- Susan Beebe
Hopefully the like concept will become an open standard.
- Steven Cains
@Jason & Susan: Do you want hoards of FB users to invade FF, anyway?
- Jemm
Only if they are really smart, cool and decent folks! no jerks, trolls or evil people allowed.
- Susan Beebe
My good friend Kim had her daughters Facebook account hacked and duplicated by some perv .. who is now sending lewd messages to the daughter ... family pictures were duplicated ,,, watch what you post ...
- johnpiercy
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