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bouncinglime › Likes
بدون عنوان - http://www.critic.ir/index...
Vahid۹Online, mhmazidi, Business Blogger 【ツ】™ and 26 other people liked this
Cultural freedom. Not.
- Robert Scoble
at first i thought they were strange birds...
- edythe
dear robert. dose cultural freedom is bikini????????????????????????
- Masoud
or nude?
- Masoud
Cultural freedom is the freedom to do whatever you want. Wear a bikini. Or nothing at all. Or wrap every body part in red cloth. I don't care. That's the point. Out here you can do it all and express yourself how you feel you would like to express yourself. In other places you are forced to express yourself the way other people want you to express yourself. That's not freedom.
- Robert Scoble
:))
- mehdi ufgvn
To look I: cultural freedom just woman honor thats with veil
- Masoud
Aida: then why the lack of diverse clothing here? In other words, you're free to be cultural as long as you fit in with everyone else, right? Keep in mind my wife's mom sent her to US because of these attitudes.
- Robert Scoble
You're free to wear a veil here in the states, too. It's just not forced. And if you say it's not forced in Iran, I'll come back at you with tons of stories from Iranians that prove that it IS forced.
- Robert Scoble
Aida: exactly. Islamic countries don't have cultural freedom.
- Robert Scoble
Uniforms ...uni-thoughts ...uni-fates ...if you omit one of those women from the picture ... nothing will change in it ...that's how people are reduced to mere copies ...
- Selma
im sorry for you and for aida,and i invited you and ida to cultural freedom thats you mean:nice body nude body. and...........im sorry
- Masoud
i like islamic republic country with even dont cultural freedom,and you can like usa and any country with cultural freedom.bye baby
- Masoud
Masoud: you might talk to my wife. Her friend was whipped for the mere infraction of being caught with a girl. When I get together with Iranians (there are thousands in the San Francisco Bay Area) I hear story after story like that of people getting thrown into jail for the stupidest things, or getting punished in other ways.
- Robert Scoble
Masoud: there's a lot of things that the United States does wrong. I don't stand up for them, though (like Bush's use of waterboarding as a torture method). We can all improve. The problem is that you don't have freedom of speech, either, so if you try to tell your government it is wrong you'll probably get thrown in jail. I don't have those problems to worry about. Only a small portion of the world has true freedom of speech and I pinch myself every day that I have that here.
- Robert Scoble
ولی رابرت راست میگه! ... ما واقعا آزادی فرهنگی و آزادی بیان نداریم ...این که دیگه روشن و واضحه...من نمی فهمم مخالفت شما با این حرف چیه؟
- Selma
Interesting how cultures and belief systems are colliding here. I remember when the Russians used to hate us. I always believed that if we could just show them our grocery stores they'd change. That was pretty close to the truth. Well, now, I wish I could bring every Iranian to Half Moon Bay, CA, USA to show them what a really great beach looks like. :-) Of course here everyone bundles up cause, well, it's usually cold!
- Robert Scoble
منم نمی تونم مخالفت کنم.راس میگه دیگه.حرف حساب جواب نداره.بعدشم گاد فادر جان خانوم اسکوبل ایرانیه براش همه حرفای ما رو ترجمه می کنه.حواستون باشه ییهو سوتی ندید
- Maryamss
Religion you for you Religion I for I مثل قرآن جواب میدهم دین شما برای شما دین من برای من
- Masoud
اون وخ نباید بنویسی My relegion for me, your relegion for you?
- Ehsanislav
Masoud: the thing is, when you have freedom of religion then your beliefs actually mean something because YOU can stand up and have credibility when you say you believe them. In your case I don't know if you believe what you do, or you are just trying to fit in or keep from getting thrown in jail. Also, there are undoubtedly SOME people in your country who don't believe what you do. They don't have a choice where you live. Yet you think that's OK. Hmmm.
- Robert Scoble
اشتباه نوشتم؟عجب پس ترجمه های قران هم اشتباه داره ببخشید احسان جان البته حرفی که می زنی درسته منم خودم دیدم منطقی نیست ولی فکر کردم اون ها با حساسیت بیشتری عمل می کنند
- Masoud
مسعود جان ...نکته اینجاست که چرا همین حرف قرآن که میگی توی کشور خودمون اجرا نمیشه؟ چرا توی کشور خودمون افراد این آزادی انتخاب پوشش و اعتقاد رو ندارن؟ حرف رابرت هم همینه
- Selma
نمیدونم من سئوال کردم
- Ehsanislav
به حسن : اينا كماندو هاي معروف هستن
- Mr Jojo
I don't read Farsi, so will have my wife, Maryam Scoble, translate in the morning. She's on FriendFeed too.
- Robert Scoble
خیلی جالبه
- Behnam
این حرف به سیاست کثیف ما مربوط میشه نه دین من این دین رو دوست دارم اگه مجالی باشه براتون دلیل میارم آزاد ترین دین دنیا چه دینی هست
- Masoud
Rutger: Google Translate doesn't do Farsi, unfortunately.
- Robert Scoble
Seems like our problem is that some people are so used to these forced ideas that they fail to see it any other way ... and unfortunately those people are in a position here to enforce it on others ...at best in any argument with those non-Iranians who protest, they resort to "keep your ideas to yourself and I’ll keep mine to myself" the irony is that same "reasoning" is not valid...
more...
- Selma
Selma: arguing probably won't change anything. But things DO change. We used to have slaves in the United States. We don't do that anymore. Minds CAN be changed. It's slow, though. But, I never thought the Berlin Wall would fall, either, and that did. Sometimes change happens very quickly. Much quicker than we expect. Humans want to be free. All the Iranian Americans who I've talked with say that too. They are sad that their friends back home don't have freedom.
- Robert Scoble
ما کاری به دین نداریم مسعود جان ...قرار شد دین و اعتقاد هر فردی محترم باشه و مال خودش باشه و کسی هم کاری به اون نداشته باشه ...درست؟ حرف شما رو هم بر آزادانه ترین دین دنیا بودن اسلام می پذیریم خوب؟ ...حالا مسئله اینجاست که همین حرفی که هرکسی به دین و اعتقاد خودش باشه هم توی کشور ما اجرا نمیشه ... وگرنه چه احتیاجی به گشت ارشاد و ممنوع کردن پوشیدن بوت و مانتوی کوتاه و غیره؟ ...اونچه اینجا مورد انتقاد قرار گرفته (از طرف رابرت و دیگران) دین اسلام نیست ...سیاست های فرهنگی و مدنی کشورمونه ...
- Selma
پس شما اساسا مخالفت های روبرت رو نمی دونید اون اسلام رو دینی می دونه که جلوی آزادی هاا رو می گیره
- Masoud
Robert: I guess here we have lost quite a bit of our optimism, but I do hope change would come one day ...we need it so bad, and we need it so urgently! ... :)
- Selma
Selma: I understand that. We still have George Bush as a President. Can't wait until next January. By the way, I should have been clearer, since many probably don't know my wife is Iranian. She lived in Tehran until she was 14 when her parents sent her to USA to study and escape these kinds of attitudes/rules/cultural beliefs. She was threatened by a soldier one day just for laughing in the street.
- Robert Scoble
@masoud: روبرت مطلقا اشاره ای به اسلام نکرد مسعود جان ... در مورد نبودن آزادی فرهنگی در کشورهای اسلامی حرف زد ... مگه کشورهای اسلامی دارن واقعا قوانین اسلام رو اجرا می کنن به نظر شما؟
- Selma
@Robert: I already knew about Maryam :) although i don't leave comments but i have been following most of your conversations with the Iranian community for the past few weeks ... the great thing about the internet is that it gives people a chance to see that things COULD be happening in a different way. I hope that'd speed up the natural process of things and help bring the change we are waiting for ...btw if Obama turns out to be as good as it seems, could we borrow him for a term or two? ;)
- Selma
Selma: you can have him in eight years. :-)
- Robert Scoble
نه آخه چرا شما همه چیز رو بهم بسط میدهید این مثل روز روشنه ما خلاف جهت حتی اسلام عمل می کنیم توی شدید ترین و تعصبی ترین کشورهای اسلامی معلومه که اجرا نمی شه
- Masoud
Islamic countries don't have cultural freedom روبرت گفت
- Masoud
مگه کشورهای مسیحی و یهودی آزادی دارن؟ واقعا اونجا هیچ نقض حقوق بشری نمیشه ؟آیا آزادی فقط آزادی لباسو حجابه؟ مصادیق رو هم ما گم کردیم
- Masoud
من معتقدم توی اون کشورها آزادی فرهنگی خیلی خیلی خیلی بیشتر از کشورهای اسلامی اجرا میشه ...خیــــــــــــــلی بیشتر ...بی عدالتی همه جا هست چون آدم ها ذاتا سودجو هستن ... ولی مصادیقش توی کشورهای دیگه از جنس دیگه ای هست ... اون ها بحث از آزادی هایی می کنن که ما خوابش رو هم نمی بینیم ...ما هنوز اندر خم کوچه دو تا تار موی دخترهامون توی خیابون وممنوع کردن فلان مو سیقی و سانسور کردن فلان فیلم و خبر و خرد کردن شخصیت زن تحت قوانین حمایت از خانواده و ممنوع کردن فلان کتاب هستیم ...
- Selma
برای همه ی کسانی که دهانشون رو باز کردن تا یکی بیاد و براشون لقمه بیاره و اونا هرچی رو که بدن ببلعن متاشفم متاسفم برای ما که حقیقت پشت در انتظار ما رو میکشه و ما تو خونه همسایه به دنبالشیم متاسفم که چقدر لغت آزادی ضعیف و زبون و ذلیل شده که باید برابر باشه با برهنگی
- Masoud
من اگه تا صبح هم حرف بزنم نمی تونم بگم تورا خدا دینومون و از سیاستومون جدا کنیم چون نمیخواین قبول کنین وضع الان ما با نیروهای حکومتی بسیارمتفاوت است با چیزی که اسلام میگه اسلام میخواد.خب مصداقش همین حرف حضرت علی که می گفت اسلام را پوسته ی وارونه بر تن کرده اند!!!!! چقر راسته
- Masoud
Robert every people, every country, every religion has a choice to do it their way! Stop shoving American democracy - capitalism on other peoples' believes! America is America, Iran is Iran, and Israel is Israel. Keep your politics at home!
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
نمی دونم چرا عصبانی میشی ...داریم در موردش با آرامش صحبت می کنیم دیگه ...قبلا گفتم باز هم میگم ...نه من و نه دیگران هیچکدوم اینجا ایرادی به "اسلام" نگرفتیم ... ما داریم راجع به سیاست های مدنی مملکت خودمون حرف میزنیم ...دین و سیاست رو هم از هم جدا کردیم ...مگه غیر از اینه؟
- Selma
thanks igor
- Masoud
It's not about countries, borders and religion Igor ...it's about the freedom to choose
- Selma
مسعود طعنه تلخ ایگور رو نگرفتی انگار
- Selma
Freedom to chose should not be counter against the social fabric of the society!
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
Maybe it's an Islamic state, maybe it's a totalitarian state using religion to oppress its people
- sjjh
When I go to a Mosque, I take my shoes off! That is respect to the Muslim people and Muslim religion! I have a choice not to take off my shoes but I will be disrespecting Muslim people. I am not a Muslim. I am a Jew!
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
So you think the government-set rules for what we wear and what we do is "the social fabric of the Iranian society"? how come it wasn't like this 30 years ago before our revolution then?
- Selma
The topic of our discussion is the current situation in Iran, we HAVE TO wear hijab whether we are religious or not, Christian, Jew,etc ...it's mandatory for every one. you get arrested for drinking, for not covering yourself, for wearing manteaus that aren't long enough (down to your knees), etc...etc ... all we are saying here is that ...respect the religious people but please let us live our lives the way we want
- Selma
We want to have the choice about our clothing and our beliefs ...being atheist is considered a serious crime here ... is that a disrespect too?
- Selma
جدی؟؟؟مگه اصلا به رابرت که نه هیچ کدوم از آرمان هاش با ما یکی هست نه خونش و نه مشکلاتش مربوط هست که بیاد به سیاست های مدنی ما ایراد بگیره یا هر بیگانه دیگه؟؟؟؟که شما هم همه با به به چه چه ازشون تمجید کنید؟شما خودت چقدر جوامع غربی رو می شناسید و از وضع مملکت اونا خیر دارین که اینطور از اونجا یه مدینه فاضله ساختید و از اینجا جهنم؟
- Masoud
Should not Iranian people decide what is right or wrong for them? Why does America get involved in Iran? America overthrew The Iranian Shah for their convenience, now they want to put MacDonald's on every corner in the name of democracy!
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
رابرت همسر ایرانی داره و با مملکت ما خوب آشناست ...من هم به اندازه ای که لازم بوده از دنیای اون ور مرزها دیدم و تجربه کردم ... من تعریفی از اون جا نکردم مسعود عزیز ...من نگران مملکت خودم هستم ..می خوام ایران خودم مدینه فاضله ای بشه که همه دنیا بهش غبطه بخوره ...این که گناه نیست که بخوام مردم کشورم، خانواده و اطرافیانم حق انتخاب روش زندگیشون رو داشته باشن
- Selma
@Igor: hmm... I don't think we ever said we wanted America's help for establishing civil rights and cultural freedom here ...(the Obama comment was just a joke btw ) ... we are struggling inside our own country, and sooner or later we'll manage to balance things out one way or another, thank you :) ...
- Selma
IMHO freedom overrides everything else in terms of importance. What value does the so-called 'social fabric' of a nation have if the only thing holding it together is government coercion? Legal enforcement of social norms/values should be the last resort - otherwise communities become irrelevant.
- Alexander Carlill
خوبه آفرین همینه منم می خوام کشورم که عاشقانه دوستش دارم مدینه فاضله شه/اما آیا انتخاب حجاب و سانسور نکردن وممنوع نشدن یک کتاب باعث میشه کشورمون مدینه فاضله بشه به خدا منم راضی ام و همیشه دعا می کنم این اتفاق ها بیافته اما دوست عزیز اینا فقط جنگ های زرگری است که غرب برای ما باز کرده تا از جای دیگه که اونا می ترسن غافل بشیم
- Masoud
Can anyone translate for me?
- Alexander Carlill
"Freedom" as an ideology? How much real freedom do you have? Did Americans have freedom to get rid of George W. Bush after he took America to war under false pretense? He was even reelected for the second term! Pleaze, preaching freedom or "freedom fries"? The only freedom Americans have is to buy an iPhone after waiting online for many hours! Oh, and you can thank Robert Scoble for recommending the iPhone which is a brick!
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
Please do not "preach freedom" but apply it! I would love to see you go to 1 Pennsylvania avenue and scream freedom! I wounder how long will it take for you to be arrested by the secret service! Pathetic!
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
I just hate propaganda! Be it American, Iranian, Israeli, Russian, or any other color and flavor! Be real and respect people and cultures!
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
@Scobleizer: Robert, I think you misunderstand "culture." You're speaking as if a particular approach is free of culture. But none of us are free of culture. I would claim that even the freedom you refer to is related to a particular sub-cultural norm, even in what we speak of as the West. Try nudity in the workplace or in your favorite shopping mall. Also, I think it is a...
more...
- Dennis E. Hamilton
I am surprised Robert even making an issue here! He should stick to his gadgets and leave eugenics out of his life! But maybe machines have no emotions and he is trying to be human!
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
خسته ام حوصله ندارم این همه بحثو بخونم، ولی حالم بد شد از دیدن این عکس
- saeedeh
Beautiful! ^_^
- bouncinglime
Troll INDEED. This conversation is being reduced to something along the lines of personal attacks, questioning Robert's humanity. Sarcasm or not, let's stay on target. That said...I understand where both sides are coming from. They may see this photograph as "freedom", just as we see our scantily-clad females as "freedom". They may be "oppressed" by not having "choice", our women may be "oppressed" by rampant objectification. I dunno, just saying.
- Victor Vasquez
I respect Islam's fashion and need for boundary. I understand their needs in this respect. And I hope the Islamic world can respect America and Israel's boundaries as well and understand our needs for those boundaries to be secure. We in America might even learn a thing or two from your culture about respecting women in my opinion. Our feminism has failed us miserably. Rhetoric has very...
more...
- NoahDavidSimon
Victor Vasquez I did not attack Robert personally! I said he is a geek blogger who blogs about gadgets and should not impose his notability as a such blogger on a cultural debate! But you reduced yourself to labeling! Why not just call me a "Jew"?
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
@Igor. I concede my hypocrisy. Apologies. Though I fail to understand why I would call you a Jew...Moving on, I don't quite see why Robert ought not share his views that may venture outside the realm of tech. Then again, it might be safer that way and avoid possible firestorm.
- Victor Vasquez
In addition, while Robert Scoble runs around preaching freedom and democracy, he blocks every opposing opinion user! That is a contradiction and a double standards in itself.
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
Apology accepted and no hard feelings. My above response is to why I am inclined to be biased against Robert.
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
problem Victor is that Scoble has a "HUGE" audience waiting to be influenced into the next "TECH" thing... and what if the next "TECH" thing is L Ron Hubbard? It is a slippery ethical slope when you are a media figure. I believe Scoble has gone to the dark side for a while now. Though I would never call him stupid. I think he is very calculating. Robert has a pattern of bringing in cultural bias into his technology information. After all what is technology anyway, but a hierarchy of power?
- NoahDavidSimon
As Noah said wielding power and audiance Robert brings his bias and discrimination to a debate! The result of which has a paramount influence on the Internet. I would go as far as to call it "Social engineering of society!" and this is dangerous!
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
the problem with the very word "tech" is it is misleading... and Robert is using that confusion to other and black sheep various opinions that question his world view. I myself would do the same thing of course... if I were powerful I would use my power to leverage change... but I wouldn't hide behind lies. Robert is not transparent. That bothers me. Like I said... we all have boundaries. But we need to make those lines clear. Not hide them behind self righteous Blue State babble.
- NoahDavidSimon
I am glad Bill Gates does not attempt to infuse his powers on politics! I guess that is why Microsoft is a success even though it is almost a monopoly!
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
Robert it is not too late to change. Open up the door! Let your elitism be a growing one that respects difference. Not an elitism that pretends difference is not there. Come on down to the human level Scoble my brother!
- NoahDavidSimon
Looks like a summer holiday on the caspain post-79. Its quite beautiful photo in an errie sort of way. We may need some Phillip Glass music playing in the background.
- Neyma Jahansooz
First off to say that I wish freedom and peace for all beings regardless of anything else. but to play the advocate for a moment, some Islamic women find the Shadora (veil) empowering in a certain way. Meaning that theirs is a subtle feminine power that has absolute mastery and control over the home and hearth whereas the men are like children in a playground going out and doing 'worldly' things whereas the 'real' life is in the home where the veil is lifted.
- Neyma Jahansooz
gender is more complex then we can imagine. to defend America and Israel's boundary we packaged our invasion of Iraq as a sociological duty. This was a mistake. I believe we were right to invade Iraq, but I would of preferred to of done it simply because of the terrorism Iraq and other countries were sponsoring in Israel and elsewhere. Igor you are wrong. Noam Chomsky says there were in...
more...
- NoahDavidSimon
That doesn't mean G-d has left Israel and America, but we have to stop dictating the rules of the home to other cultures. Hell is a road paved on good intentions. I doubt that most Christian missionaries that brought disease to the third world really meant harm, but it is not the job of an outside culture to dictate morality. On the other hand, defending our borders from terrorists...
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- NoahDavidSimon
Noah, America made Sadam, Khamenei, Cadafi, Bin Laden! When It is not convenient for them geopolitically they go to take them out! Marriage of convenience? Miss Liberty needs to be more respectable with her suiters! It is not just what "she" wants but what her lovers want as well as what the other players at the party! "Give me Liberty or give me Death!" is an empty cry unless you willing to exercise it! Hypocrisy, double standards and every other deceit, all for what?
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
America has become a joke, a pun of tragedy! Do you think anyone can help Amerika? As an Israeli I wish America was out of Israeli politics, but I know it will never happen! It is scary for all of where all of us this is going!
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
They say a picture speaks a thousand words! This picture will make it crystal clear! Miss Liberty with her skirt up showing her panties! http://friendfeed.com/e...
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
that was not what I was trying to say.
- NoahDavidSimon
Igor America is no different then any other entity. It chooses it's allies and is sometimes betrayed. If you think America is such a hypocrite then why would you attempt to friend Mark Davidson? I warned you didn't I? We all try to friend the enemy. I'm trying to friend Robert Scoble right now. We all put our hands out to the other side and we should not be criticized for doing it. As we are speaking right now. Israel is talking to Syria in secret talks. This is the nature of politics.
- NoahDavidSimon
UNFORTUNATES!
- Natalie
and Robert Scoble... what kind of cultural freedom does your elitist blue state private gated community have today? Women in makeup? discomfort? you are no more transparent then the women in that photograph
- NoahDavidSimon
Noah I friend my enemies to learn about them! Ignorance is not bliss! The saying goes, "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer!"
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
But Robert Scoble, come on, how many women actually *chose* to be wrapped up in black on a beach even, when left to make that choice? That's where your moral relativism starts to break down. And click through to this guy's page and ALL his pictures for a context that clearly seems to be more about feminism and admiration of the female form that some of the PC gang here are willing to admit.
- Prokofy Neva
Igor... you thought Mark Davidson was your friend till you realized he was an aMANdaChapel drone. you desperately want to align yourself with the Blue State tyranny, and get frustrated when they reject you. They reject you because their politics are a facade of support for something that does not like you for who you are. Robert Scoble is a facade of the monoculture and he is so fat that no one can see the bigotry behind him. Igor you don't know who your friends and enemies are.
- NoahDavidSimon
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