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I have a hard time distinguishing libertarianism from a philosophy where fairness means I can always do what I want, no matter how many other people it might inconvenience, harm, or outright kill, and neither the duly elected government nor the people who they represent have any right to disagree.

October 29 - Comment - Like - Share

empireofno, rowlikeagirl, vicster and 34 other people liked this

Amen, brother, amen. - Spidra Webster

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That seems to be what American libertarianism is about. - John (a.k.a. dendroica)

Totally. - josh neff, Fun Dip of FF

I have a lot of soft-core libertarian tendencies, but I draw the line where: (1) there are information or power imbalances (look around... pretty prevalent); (2) markets are not operating freely and efficiently (look around... pretty prevalent); (3) there's too much risk of harm with a laissez-faire approach (after-the-fact lawsuits are little consolation). The rights of individuals are paramount, but not to the detriment of the group. - LogEx

Good observations, Victor - Melanie Reed

It's a complex label that applies to many different things [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...]. At it's simplest, small-l libertarianism is a worldview at the other end of the spectrum from authoritarianism. Take the test at http://www.politicalcompass.org/ ...I'd bet that >75% of the people on FriendFeed would score in the lower-left quadrant (Left-Libertarian]. - LogEx

Most self-identified libertarians would say that your freedom ends where it crosses the freedom of someone else. I can do what I want, but you don't have to help me do it. - Alex Scrivener

So, I could inconvenience all I want, but harm, or outright kill would infringe on your rights. - Alex Scrivener

LogEx, I took that test again out of curiosity, and boy did I hate the wording of many questions this time. I wonder how accurate it is. (and yes, I was lower-left, but more lower and less left than 10 years ago... how predictable) - Friday Lo is Friday!

Another fun test is the "Libertarian Purity Test" http://www.bcaplan.com/cgi-bin... - Alex Scrivener

Wow, Alex, that's worse. I couldn't answer 4 of the first 5 questions and gave up. There's no "it depends" option. - Friday Lo is Friday!

Yep, libertarians would be just fine allowing people to smoke in public areas regardless of the overwhelming evidence of the high costs to society associated with second hand smoking. - Alex Scoble

"They're just questions, Leon. In answer to your query, they're written down for me. It's a test, designed to provoke an emotional response... Shall we continue?" - LogEx

More like a test designed to prompt answers that reveal little about the respondent. On several of those I realized that someone who is the polar opposite of me would answer the same way. That's just crazy. (but then, I'm a bit of a nerd when it comes to the imprecise meaning of words) - Friday Lo is Friday!

Lo, what's "tl;dr" ? (I saw the tmi bit) --> nvrmnd, googled it. - LogEx

too long; didn't read - Maxamad

Well, libertarians are fine with allowing owners of private establishments to allow smoking, if that's what you're talking about. - Alex Scrivener

If by "private establishments" you mean restaurants, sorry, but those are public places and as such, it is perfectly acceptable for the government to sanction smoking in these areas for the greater good. - Alex Scoble

And there is a fundamental difference. Just because someone invites you into his place does not make it public - Alex Scrivener

I've met a quite a few libertarians that are quite reasonable.. there is a difference between libertarianism and narcissism.. - Pavan

The problem with "my rights end where yours begin" is that there are way too many scenarios where people's rights clash. At that point, who decides whose right is more important? - Victor Ganata

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. - Alex Scoble

Victor, isn't that what the Constitution is for? Oh, and by the way, if we don't like the Constitution and don't think Congress is doing enough to fix it, we are explicitly allowed to call for a convention. - LogEx

LogEx, tl;dr is perhaps the most common response I've seen to my comments on the internet. (I have logorrhea) - Friday Lo is Friday!

This libertarian accurately articulated my problems with the Nolan chart: "The Nolan Chart does an excellent job of describing conservatism, and the difference between conservatism and libertarianism. It does a much poorer job of describing liberals. In fact, the Nolan Chart is not really two-dimensional. Both dimensions are different aspects of a value of concern to libertarians: the... more... - Andrew C

Lo... ooh, logorrhea sounds like something I should have ;) - LogEx

Political compass is an interesting test and if you are using a Constitutionalist argument. Logex, your probably a right libertarian. I personally like the John Birch Society creed. - Eric Logan

Alex, this country was built on the ideal of liberty for the individual, not what's good for the majority is best for all. That's why we have civil rights, and why marijuana should be legal. Anyway, I'm guessing most people fall into the gray area, and it depends on the issue how libertarian they are. Oh, and people should be able to pump their own gasoline. :) - Cristo

Andrew, thanks, I was wondering when there would be some analysis on the methodology. BTW, the political compass is not the same as the Nolan chart (seems the main diff is that populism is replaced by authoritarianism... which does have implications for interpretation), but perhaps some of the same criticisms apply. - LogEx

Give me liberty or give me death! - LogEx

if you posit only negative rights (Life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, etc.) they can't conflict. If you hold for positive rights, well, then you're in trouble. - Alex Scrivener

I dunno Cristo, I think the whole notion of government existing is to protect the good of the majority from those individuals who don't use their rights in a kind way. Complete individual freedom for all would mean a seriously crazy world. But this country was founded on the idea of keeping restrictions on liberty to the bare minimum, sure. - Friday Lo is Friday!

One would think this conversation was tailored for me, wouldn't one? - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

Yeah, where have you been, MVB? - LogEx

I was out on a site all day. I read the above comments, and, other than Alex Scoble being a total socialist, there isn't really anything I need to add. ;) - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

Government exists to protect rights. Determining what those rights are is essential before a higher level discussion can take place. - Alex Scrivener

That's a pretty narrow definition, Alex. Government also, if done correctly, can be better at roads, utilities, etc... Acting as a co-op would for purchasing power to obtain better prices for the members of the co-op. - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

If my happiness depends on killing you, surely that's a conflict of rights? :D - Victor Ganata

Victor, yes. MVB, if you want to get technical, I hold a Thomistic view of government, which involves natural law, human nature, and 'The Good'. But in general, government = rights protector. Everything else is secondary. - Alex Scrivener

with scrivener on this.. - Pavan

Anyway, my point was that, on the increasingly rare occasion I get suckered into an argument with a self-identified libertarian, I always feel that they're basically just asserting that their individual rights are somehow more important than my individual rights. So, while, yeah, I realize that in theory, it is distinct from narcissism and solipsism, in practice, I find it hard to see how. - Victor Ganata

I do agree that the purpose of government is to protect rights, but the only way for governments to exist is for individuals to give up some of their natural rights. - Victor Ganata

I disagree that you have to give up rights to have government. The only thing that seems necessary to give up is money, in taxes, and as long as you are allowed to leave (see: East Germany) that is at least nominally voluntary. - Alex Scrivener

victor: nope a libertarian's rights are not greater than yours.. they are the same.. a libertarian would lead his life within his rights according to his needs.. your needs are your problem. - Pavan

Libertarians don't want to interfere with you, they want to be left alone. It's kind of a defining characteristic. - Alex Scrivener

I'm coming from a Hobbesian perspective here. Remaining in a state of nature gives you more liberty than being bound in a social contract. You do give up something to become part of civilization. - Victor Ganata

I have a hard time distinguishing libertarianism from the philosophy where libertarians do not like any political solution to every political problem, while their solutions can never be applied, because that would pretty much lead to anarchy. - Rene Wirtz

Utopian anarchy and idealized libertarianism do seem to have a lot in common. I think utopian anarchy would be the ideal system. Everyone would just innately know the right thing to do, and never impinge on each others rights. - Victor Ganata

Liberals, conservatives, libertarians, progressives, republicans, democrats. Does anyone like any group? - Cristo

Oh yes, I'm a progressive progressive. (But you can call me a socialist, too *wink*) - Rene Wirtz

Clearly, the problem is that people suck, no matter what group you put them in. I think that a realistic system of government has to take that into account. - Victor Ganata

Very true, Victor. But it would have to be a government that actually listens to its citizens. - Rene Wirtz

Interesting article here: "Libertarianism as a Liberal Project" http://friendfeed.com/alexscr... - ...helps to explain why I think of myself partly as a fiscally-conservative bleeding-heart libertarian ;) - LogEx

LogEx, but that is what libertarianism has been stereotyped as: objecting solely against state impingement on liberty, never mind the tyranny and oppression that a human being or corporation in a state of nature is capable of. Frankly, I can't see the typical American libertarian being behind that--it would immediately be seen as impinging on the liberty of private citizens. It's really more in tune with progressive and neomarxist goals. - Victor Ganata

It's silly to define and root yourself as anything, when after every move white makes, black makes a counter move and the shape of winning changes. Progressives realize that a move ago being less controlled made sense, but after black's last move, that path to the prosperity may be closed and a more authoritarian central control is prudent. Once you realize life is all middle game, it makes more sense. - Matthew DeVries

@Victor, sure, but I think there is more common ground on liberty-libertarian issues across the liberal-conservative spectrum than there is on almost any other issues in that spectrum. Maybe we can use that to bundle things a different way, reduce authoritarianism, and then be able to deal with real issues one by one. - - @Matthew, yes, I've never thought the extremes of any philosophy... more... - LogEx

Just to stir the pot a little more, I am a radical libertarian with monarchist sympathies. Why? People are more suspicious of a king's claims than the claims of someone with a "mandate from the electorate" - Alex Scrivener

Alex, isn't that contradictory? *confused* - Rene Wirtz

No, libertarianism only means support for liberty, not democracy. - Alex Scrivener

Then why would you have monarchist sympathies? *still confused* - Rene Wirtz

People will only put up with "Because I said so" so far, before they resist, and people are wary of give power to a separate entity, like a king. But in a democracy, the leaders can always say "This is what the people want. I have a mandate." There is no external check. - Alex Scrivener

OK, but you can vote out a democratic government, but you can't vote out a king. - Rene Wirtz

I never said it was perfect - Alex Scrivener

*LOL* But then wouldn't a democratic government be slightly better than a monarchy? (And perfection doesn't really exist ... anywhere ...) - Rene Wirtz

If you want details, I favor (in an abstract way) the tripartite mixed regime as laid out in 'De Regimine Principum, ad Regem Cypri' but always with the understanding that governments must fit with the history and traditions of a people. - Alex Scrivener

alexscrivener, interesting twist re. the monarchy strategy. But, historically it seems to me royals have employed the same type of rhetoric as modern elected representatives. Of course the Kings with an unabashedly self-centered rule are the most notorious, but 'best for the subjects of the realm' is not unheard of. - Micah Wittman

*Housekeeping Item* @Victor - Subscribed! (lol, can't believe I hadn't till now, but I don't groom my subscriptions much at all for probably a year now.) - Micah Wittman

For anyone really interested in a solid defense of monarchy, try Liberty or Equality: The Challenge of Our Times by Erik Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn. A fascinating book, and the closest anyone has come to convincing me to be a monarchist. - Alex Scrivener

This is me on libertarianism: http://piaw.blogspot.com/2009... - Piaw Na

@Cristo: I like being a progressive liberal. The conservatives have been wrong on every issue in history. They were wrong about giving votes to women, they were wrong about child labor, they were wrong about pollution, they were wrong about National Parks, and they will be wrong about gay marriage and are currently wrong about healthcare. I can't think of any issue in history where the conservatives were ultimately proven correct (they were even wrong about WWII) - Piaw Na

Piaw Na: right on! I've said the same thing! - josh neff, Fun Dip of FF

Piaw Na, great. And your economic policy? BTW, I think all groups are wrong on some things, and some groups are right on some things, although not all groups are right on some things. And while I agree with every one of the issues you stated, I don't agree with all the policies of progressives or democrats. - Cristo

Economic policy? The conservatives were wrong about marginal tax rates, and tax cuts boosting the economy. Clinton's progressive tax increase certainly didn't hurt the economy either. Starve the beast didn't work, and hasn't worked, and smart conservatives (e.g., Bruce Bartlett) are starting to realize that. And in the long run, economic policy is driven by policies such as racism, the... more... - Piaw Na

Okay, so you're equating republican with conservative. Try reading "fiscal conservative" as in Ron Paul or Ross Perot. You know, like in a strong dollar, and not putting ourselves into deeper debt, which both democrats and republicans have done. - Cristo

@Piaw Na: I am thinking the conservatives are the real, unsung heroes in any society? They are taking a bullet for the team as the conservative forces are needed in any society (in some form) to help steer the ship, but they are bound to look both stupid and uncompassionate in the light of history as they by default initially will have opposed all those progresses we are so proud our society has made. *edit: And for the record, I'm NOT playing that part! :)* - Eivind

Eivind: I'd be much more grateful if they were truly unsung. They seem to have way too many supporters at any given time in history, from the pro-slavery crowd to today's Rush Limbaugh/Joe Lieberman crowd. - Piaw Na

There's a time and place to put on the brakes, and those are laudable. But the rest of the time, it really isn't. - Andrew C

They are NEVER able to answer how they will protect children or the public in general from the rampage of greed. - Brad Nickel

I'd hate to call the pro-slavery folks unsung heroes. - Piaw Na

It's highly dependent on definitions, but I usually think of the the people who want to put on the brakes moderates, and the people who want throw it in reverse conservatives/reactionaries. Life is change. Anything that doesn't change is dead. On the other hand, believing in a mythic future can just be as dangerous and destructive as trying to turn back the clock to the mythic past. I don't think one side is more right, but I do think that a lot of times, one side is less wrong. - Victor Ganata

It always depends on the timetable, doesn't it? With slavery, Lincoln was an unsung hero at first, and he didn't free the slaves because of overwhelming anti-slavery sentiment. But he quickly became one of the most sung heroes in US history. - Friday Lo is Friday!

Lincoln sounds like a flaming librul to me, even now. Liberating property sounds downright communist, in fact. - Victor Ganata

Lincoln got a bullet to his head for what he did. The conservatives get jobs at think-tanks, lots of money from industry, newspaper columns, highly paid tv and radio shows. I don't think the word "hero" means what you think it means. - Piaw Na

I don't think that any person has ever really belonged to another, but Lincoln was not nearly as liberal as I on the matter. - Friday Lo is Friday!

So the Lincoln Memorial is a condemnation to eternally remind everyone what an asshole he was? (also, do you think he was really unpopular and everyone wanted him dead, and that's why he was shot? LOLOLOL!!!) - Friday Lo is Friday!

sic semper tyrannus? Says you....JWB - Matthew DeVries

I wouldn't be surprised if there are people alive in certain parts of the U.S. today who absolutely loathe Lincoln. - Victor Ganata

Certainly, Lincoln could never be a libertarian hero. - Victor Ganata

There's people who still think the South was something different than the flat out bad guys. That somehow the importance of the other things on their platform other than slavery (states rights, etc.) somehow equilibrated it's movement as an overall good and noble cause. - Matthew DeVries

I don't think of the North as flat out good guys, either, though. But most of the time in politics, you end up having to side with the lesser of evils. And the Civil War seems to be another case where libertarianism, limited government, and strict interpretation of the Constitution would totally fail. The most likely result of following such a philosophy would be the permanent schism of the Union and the Confederacy. I doubt either nation would've endured intact into the 21st century after that. - Victor Ganata

Which, putting slavery on the table, made it an easy choice. Flip that one issue around, and I'd have routed for the South. That one issue erases the entire rest your manifesto. Something like ritual child rape would have to brought in to trump it. - Matthew DeVries

Expansion hurts my head. http://rationalwiki.com/wiki... - Eric Logan

You're still rooting for the south too today. They're anti-abortion rights, anti-gay rights, and still manage to be anti-civil rights. I definitely don't see those as being unpopular movements today. - Piaw Na

April Buchheit

"Blue Cross sent me a postage-prepaid postcard to send to my Senator opposing a Public Option" (PICS) - Democratic Underground - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss...

October 26 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Laura (hear me raura?), Michael Muller, Jay Cuthrell and 98 other people liked this

"So I'm using Blue Cross's postage to send MY message. Thanks Blue Cross for the postage." - April Buchheit from Bookmarklet

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Ingenious. - Maxamad

The postcard says "Postage will be paid by addressee", which implies it's the senator who will be paying the postage. Of course, the senator's franking privileges may make it so that the taxpayers pay the postage. - Gabe

True. But why is it that the Senator Hagan/taxpayers should be paying for Blue Cross' message? - Christopher Chung

My friend did this, too. I hope I get one in the mail. - Ayşe E.

They haven't sent me one of these, but when they do, I'll be sure to mail it in unmodified (or with a big "NO ON PUBLIC OPTION" written on it, perhaps). The very notion of government run health insurance is a travesty that will end up bankrupting this country. - Otto

So you don't think Medicare or the Veterans Health Administration is going to pan out, even after all these years? - Mark Trapp

Medicare and the VA system are living proof of my statements. They offer crappy service and are continually costing more and more as time goes on. They are unsustainable in the long term, and basically expanding these failures to cover everybody is only going to accelerate the problem. - Otto

What's long term? The VA system has been going since 1778, and Medicare since 1965. Are you thinking at the 300 year mark, they'll finally collapse? - Mark Trapp

Right on! Good for you! That's a great idea - Ciaoenrico

Our Canadian single-payer health care has been going strong for some time now with no risk of bankruptcy. I'd like to see some evidence that our system is unsustainable. - Matt Mastracci

The VA system is garbage, ask any veteran who has to use it on a regular basis. And medicare is on the verge of bankruptcy, and has been for at least decade now. Last I checked, medicare was the biggest drain of tax revenue that exists. Predictions I've seen give it 10 more years, tops, even with restructuring. - Otto

What Matt said. - Nathalie, Dreamer of FF

Love this post. - Trish R

That's awesome! - Jan Ole Peek

Of course, the assertion that government-run health insurance is unsustainable (whether Medicare, the VA, the Canadian system, or any other) raises the question of what system is more sustainable than government-run insurance. It's certainly not the current American one. ... I love April's use of the mailer. - John (a.k.a. dendroica)

Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favor of health care reform... But insurance reform is unnecessary. The problem is not the insurance companies, their reactions and bad-behaviors are created by the high cost of medical care to begin with. Fix the health care system to not cost so damn much, and the problems with insurance will solve themselves. Strike at the source of the problems, not at the consequences of them. - Otto

Otto: Insurance causes high prices of medical care. Since you don't pay, the hospital can set its prices arbitrarily high and the insurance company pays whatever its maximum is. Since the insurance company pays so much, they have to have high insurance rates, which makes insurance expensive to buy. If the government had their own insurance, they would be big enough to demand low prices,... more... - Gabe

That's insane. The existence of insurance does not cause the high price of medial care. You have it exactly backwards. Furthermore, the idea of a government-run-insurance plan would not solve that problem, if it was at all the truth, because you're dealing with a supply demand situation. The government run plan could say they weren't going to pay above $X, at which point the medical... more... - Otto

The truth is that most of the waste in medical costs comes from two places: administrative overhead and fraud. Both of these are primarily caused by Medicare and the bureaucracy surrounding it. - Otto

Otto: Why is that you keep ignoring all the evidence from other countries that support national health care (e.g. http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues...) and you also keep ignoring the facts that show that medicare has lower costs that private insurance (e.g. http://www.cms.hhs.gov/Nationa... ) - Robert Felty

@Otto - why do you think there is so much administrative overhead? To deal with all the different insurance companies and the reems of paperwork to get a claim approved and avoid malpractice suits. That means more people have to be hired and trained just to deal with all that stuff and more systems and processes have to be put in place to handle it all. Insurance companies make more... more... - Her Lindsay-ness

@Lindsay: I know several people who work in administrative roles in hospitals. Not one of them agrees with you. The problem isn't the insurance forms and such, those are fairly standard. Almost all of the administrative overhead is due specifically to Medicare. And no, I do not work in the health insurance industry, so your ad-hominem attack makes no sense whatsoever. Why is it that... more... - Otto

@Robert: I'm not ignoring evidence from other countries, I'm discounting most of it based on facts that contradict the ones you are linking to. And Medicare has lower costs than private insurance because it rarely pays for anything. How many people who have medicare must also have their own insurance in order to get proper medical treatment? Have you looked up the numbers on that? - Otto

Otto, how does limiting the pricing result in providers refusing service? In Canada, the Federal Government sets the pricing schedule, but the private providers are still here, providing us good service for a set fee. More info on our system: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... I would say that our health care system is an excellent counterpoint to "if you fix the fees at a certain point, providers will stop providing service". - Matt Mastracci

Otto - would you care to share some references which contain the facts that contradict those which I shared? I am open-minded, but I need to see actual data from credible sources to form my opinions. - Robert Felty

How does Otto make the claim that insurance isn't even part of the problem when medical loss ratios in the health insurance business have dropped from 95% to 80% in just 15 years? (and if you don't know what that means, you don't have an informed opinion about health care reform.) - Andrew C

I am always amazed at the ignorance of those arguing against public health care services when practically the entire world is doing it and they always have their facts wrong about Medicare and every other system. They'll become advocates when they or their loved ones are being evicted or foreclosed upon while they are dying an excruciating and untreated death. - Brad Nickel

Otto, just exactly how many veterans have you actually talked to? The VA definitely has flaws, but all the veterans I've talked to seem to like the service provided, and often compare it favorably to the private sector. And why are all those people out there so opposed to changing Medicare if it's so terrible? Since you've stated you haven't seen a doctor in decades, how could you possibly have any experience with any health care system whatsoever? - Victor Ganata

FFS... @Matt: Canada has a lower doctor to patient ratio than anybody else does, and it's decreasing all the time. @Robert: You have Google. Use it. I wouldn't believe links you provide me, so why should you believe links I provide you? Do your own research and make up your own mind. I'm not trying to convince you or anybody else, and I frankly don't care what you believe. @Andrew C:... more... - Otto

*shrug* I'm supposed to be swayed by second-hand anecdotal evidence from someone who doesn't have any recent direct experience with any health care system? If you don't care, why do you continue to post? - Victor Ganata

*shrug* I'm supposed to be swayed by somebody who actually has a vested interest in the health care system (ie, a doctor)? See, I can use fallacious arguments as well as you can, Victor! ;) Also, I post to express my opinions and ideas. Why else would anybody post anything? - Otto

Otto, your facts on doctor:patient ratio are incorrect. Our ratio is 2.2 per 1000, versus 2.4 per 1000 in the USA. In fact, our ratio has improved from 2.1 in the 1990s. While our doctor:patient ratio is not as high as other public health care systems, it isn't far off that of the USA. - Matt Mastracci

Here's my reference: http://www.oecd.org/dataoec... "Between 1990 and 2007, the number of doctors per capita remained relatively stable in Canada" - Matt Mastracci

Otto, but, fair is fair, so long as you don't pretend your anecdotes are generalizable truth, I won't pretend mine are either. It is clear that you do have quite a grasp on fallacious arguments. :) And I do agree that it's important to consider the source of your evidence. - Victor Ganata

Otto, the dropping medical loss ratio specifically means an increasing share of premiums isn't going towards paying for health care; that is /by itself/ inherently bad! In an actual working market, advances in efficiency, if any, would be passed along to the consumers in the form of lower premiums. Instead, prices are getting jacked up even faster than health care inflation because the health care insurance industry exploits monopoly power. - Andrew C

@Matt: According to the WHO: http://nofearsingapore.blogspot.com/2007... the numbers are slightly different. Close, admittedly. However, the important thing to note is that Canada's ratio is the lowest among almost all industrialized countries, which was my point. I was not comparing to the US, specifically. - Otto

@Andrew C: I understand what "medical loss ratio" means. I understand what "profit" and "premiums" are. What I don't understand is why you think a company should not be allowed to make a legitimate profit? Insurance is gambling. If you don't like the bet, then don't gamble. Or, if you really want to see the loss ratios decrease, then ALLOW COMPETITION. Currently there is virtually no... more... - Otto

You make no sense. A company should certainly be allowed to make a legitimate profit, but indefinitely extracting rent at this level is a clear symptom of market-setting power. Trying to call one the other doesn't actually make them the same thing. Also, people can only reasonably get it from their employer _because that's the only affordable option_. Individual insurance exists; it's... more... - Andrew C

I find it pretty funny BTW that you have implicitly agreed with the rest of us that the health care _insurance_ industry actually is part of the problem. - Andrew C

"Insurance is gambling. If you don't like the bet, then don't gamble." It shouldn't have to be a game. Everyone is going to need medical attention at some point in their life. It's a matter of how you will be able to afford to pay for it. People pay for insurance because it's the only way they can afford to ensure that their health will be taken care of. It's not really an option if you... more... - Her Lindsay-ness

lolling at the "insurance is a gamble" statement. Classic. - Andrizzle Gizzle

It's the conservative message: You're On Your Own. - Andrew C

For the record, I'm not a conservative. I'm also not a liberal. I'm a person, with my own opinions and ideas. Labeling people only means that you're not paying attention to what they're saying. - Otto

@Andrew C: Individual insurance is priced out of the market because of regulations limiting what kinds of plans can be offered. Why can I not a health insurance plan for, say, emergencies only? I'm healthy, I don't have any need to go to the doctor much, I never get sick, the only reason I'd need to do so would be an accident. So why can't I buy that insurance? State regulations... more... - Otto

@Lindsay: Your statements are provably false. Not everyone is going to need medical attention at some point in their lives. Furthermore, if your statement was true, health insurance would not work at all, since the entire point of "insurance" is to spread risk. If risk was 100%, as you claim, then there's nothing to spread. For the record, I do not currently have, nor need, health... more... - Otto

So basically you're gambling, hoping that you will "win the game". At what point do you decide you need insurance? And hopefully you don't get anything before then. It is pointless to argue with someone like this, just let him enjoy his smug satisfaction on having figured out the whole mess. - Andrizzle Gizzle

Everyone has some chance of getting hit by a bus or eating E.coli tainted food or having a tree branch fall on them. {shrug} - Andrew C

Except for the winners who have somehow divined ways not to do so, I guess. - Andrew C

@Otto, your claim about emergencies-only plans being ruled out seems incorrect to me: http://www.insurance.com/health-... - Andrew C

Otto is completely right. Insurance, not having insurance, it's all gambling. What's relevant is regulation limits choices; or forces one person's judgement and preferences on another. Big government healthcare won't work because the government can't do anything well because unlike a market it doesn't have distributed knowlege and I don't think the incentives are right. Witness the UK's... more... - Rob Fisher

While I don't know if we're using the word catastrophe in the same way, clearly there are policies that have very high deductibles where realistically, the only time they would pay benefits would be if you ended up hospitalized. And there are plenty of policies that don't cover preventative care at all. Even these types of policies are out of the reach of quite a few Americans. - Victor Ganata

What a silly response Otto. Its all emotional. Why do you think the argument here is so passionate? The fact that you would even dismiss it that way tells me everything I need to know about your point of view and existence. Sad. - Brad Nickel from email

If "the government can't do anything well" why do they even exist? Unless you're an anarchist, I can't see how it makes sense. - Victor Ganata

There are limited things governments might be good at. Defense of the realm; keeping the peace. They are not good at providing goods and services. When they try to provide (or control the supply of) food, for example, you get famine. That's because you need market signals to stimulate [the right amount of] supply [and demand<delete], and that information is not centralised. The same problem affects government supplied healthcare. Hence waiting lists. - Rob Fisher

We have waiting lists now. In what way are the NHS's waiting lists worse than the delays caused by having to argue with insurance companies to get coverage for diagnostic tests, procedures, and specialist referrals? - Victor Ganata

Because the latter involves the invisible hand somehow! - Andrew C

It's hard to say. I'm not arguing that you don't have a problem, just that more government isn't the solution. E.g. on the NHS you often end up paying for your own treatment anyway just so you get it in time. This is not an improvement. - Rob Fisher

So that's not really different from the current system we have now: you can always pay cash. I think "more government isn't the solution" is a bare assertion that needs a fair amount of evidence to actually prove. - Victor Ganata

Medicare and the VHA have waiting lists? Really? I haven't ever heard anyone waiting for Medicare, and it's single payer. I haven't heard of anyone in England (or Canada, or any other developed country) put on a waiting list. Do you have evidence to support that? You would write off education, food safety, the highway system, firemen, and air safety as well? Seems like you're asking for a very extreme form of government that isn't very much like what developed countries are or what they provide. - Mark Trapp

Otto: The way that discourse works in research-based journals is that one person makes a claim, and backs that up with either data, and/or references to other research. I would happily read any references you give. I don't understand why you wouldn't look at references that I give. - Robert Felty

Rob Fisher: if government controlled healthcare doesn't work, then why does Canada spend less on health care per person, but have lower infant mortality rates, and longer life expectancy? In addition, these numbers have improved since they started their single payer system, while our numbers have basically remained flat. http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues... - Robert Felty

Victor: What can I say? You probably won't be impressed by my Austrian economics theory. You could come and live in the UK and get sick, and see what it's like. :) I do hope the USA manages to avoid the worst of it. Maybe look around at what many other countries do; I don't think anyone gets it quite right. Singapore seems to have good healthcare; but their statistics look good partly... more... - Rob Fisher

I also think it's fallacious to believe we're actually arguing about a completely government controlled system. The public option is not even close to a true single-payer system, and nowhere near a nationalized health care system. It is quite similar to Medicare, except with different eligibility criteria, and as far as I can tell, Medicare doesn't seem to have destroyed the private health insurance industry, no matter how many people try to argue that slippery slope. - Victor Ganata

Part of the reason all healthcare isn't like that is because not all health procedures and exams are as simple as eye exams. - Andrew C

@Rob Fisher - the number of Canadians who seek treatment in the US is not very large: http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi... - Andrew C

You probably can't get a new liver in an hour and expect to have a good outcome no matter where you go. - Victor Ganata

But you should be able to get simple scans and tests quickly and cheaply. You can't on the NHS. The point about this not being about an NHS-like system is taken, though. - Rob Fisher

If you are insured by a private insurer in the US your health fate is decided by insurance underwriters and doctor panels whose sole mandate is to save and make money for the company- not to keep you healthy or prevent you from getting sick or sicker. A doctor's intuition on what a patient may need, even in terms of preventative/investigative testing is hooey as far as they are... more... - Karma Martell

How do we get to a point where you can make money by keeping people healthy? People want to be healthy, so it must be doable. - Rob Fisher

The prescription drug cos would fold, Rob. That is not what they want. - Karma Martell

i wish i could do more than "like" this. oh, and while i'm here loving this, @Rob Fisher -- my answer is, make money doing something other than "keeping people healthy" -- putting profit and human life in the same objective is bound to have some horrifying conflicts of interest, no matter how pure the "health" motivation is. and with $$ involved, it will never even be close to approximating pure. - (dot)lizard kelly

@Rob - you can make money by keeping people healthy, but as (dot)lizard kelly just said, you can make _more_ money by not... for example, by collecting premiums from healthy people and denying coverage to your sick customers. - Andrew C

@kelly - I wouldn't mind people profiting by keeping people healthy. Hospitals and doctors do that. The trouble with insurance companies is that they profit by denying people care. - John (a.k.a. dendroica)

Karma: As long as *someone* can make money at it, doesn't matter who. (dot)lizard kelly: food is important to be healthy; people make money at providing food; no conflict of interest there. I'm not convinced there's anything so different about healthcare. I'll sleep on it and let you know if I have thought of an amazing business plan in the morning. And if it doesn't work, I'll be looking for regulations that stop it working. - Rob Fisher

(I suspect the reason is you can't switch insurance companies easily.) - Rob Fisher

Simple scans and tests frequently lead to incidental findings that are almost always benign but lead to literal million dollar workups. I actually don't think easy access to everything is always the right answer. - Victor Ganata

The food example may not be a good counter-argument here in the U.S., where farmers have actually been paid not to grow things in order to artificially keep prices up. - Victor Ganata

Evidently you and others that spout this free market gobbldy gook have never worked for corporate America and the absolute incompetence in those organizations. Hello , can you say mortgage, banking, savings and loan, energy, etc etc etc. It is a lie and a myth and you folks have gotten away with it for far too long! Thanks, Brad - Brad Nickel from email

I have worked for corp America. As Brad says, free market is never free. The wealth is not distributed. There needs to be accountability and standards. As Obama says, an insurance co should not be able to come between a decision made by you and your doctor. And Victor, it's about fair access, not just access if you have the money and you can override the system. - Karma Martell

The problem is that access is controlled by two forces: actual medical need, and the need to generate a profit, and lots of times these forces end up opposing each other. As the costs of medical care continue to increase, I think we're going to have to decide as a society which is actually more important. - Victor Ganata

This is not to say that I don't think people who actually provide the care shouldn't be compensated for their labor. (In my case, that's just self-interest.) But there's a huge difference between fair compensation and outright profiteering. - Victor Ganata

So who is paying for the "Public Option"? - Brett Veenstra

And who here does not know Blue Cross is a private company. - Mahmood Padura

If you go by what's in the House bill, the public option will initially be financed by seed money from the federal government that is supposed to be paid back in 10 years. In the long run, it's supposed to be funded entirely by the premiums of people who choose to participate in the plan. - Victor Ganata

Otto: it is not the existence of insurance companies that keep prices high (auto insurance's existence doesn't make auto repairs artificially inflated), it is how the system works. If I am a healthcare provider and you are a patient who will only pay $100 no matter how expensive the treatment is, I can set the price as high as I want. Your insurance might only cover $500, but somebody else's might cover $1000 or $5000, so there's no reason I shouldn't set my price at $5000 for the treatment. - Gabe

Furthermore, let's say that there's a 1% chance that you'll need another $5000 test (an MRI perhaps). If you do need it and I don't give it to you, there's a chance you'll sue me and my malpractice insurance goes way up. If I give it to you and you don't need it, you don't care because you're not paying for it. You end up getting lots unnecessary tests just so I don't get sued. In... more... - Gabe

I dunno, didn't Japan solve the MRI problem by providing lots of them and driving the cost-per-exam down? ( http://www.pbs.org/wgbh... ) - Andrew C

And besides, the insurance companies in the States deal with that problem by denying procedures. - Andrew C

Health care is not a right http://peikoff.com/video-u... - Crutis

It might be instructive to look at the US airline industry before and after deregulation. It used to be that prices were fixed, so airlines competed on service. This meant that service was good, and profits were built-in so airlines weren't constantly in bankruptcy. It also meant that flying was a luxury that most people could not afford, which made it not so crowded either. After... more... - Gabe

Unless you intend on repealing EMTALA, access to emergency care regardless of ability to pay is in fact a guaranteed right in the U.S. - Victor Ganata

Hmmmm... Unless Crutis you think they fall within Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness! Thanks, Brad - Brad Nickel from email

What of someone is happiest if they choose not to acquire health care insurance? It would seem to me that the imposition would thwart their pursuit and remove their liberty. - Mattb4rd

When are we going to learn that the cake really is a lie? Re: Washington D.C. - I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. - Mattb4rd

Civilization is impossible without some form of government. The idea that we can live without it is the lie. - Victor Ganata

No, the lie is that government is somehow required in all aspects of daily life. Civilization does need government, but mostly it needs it to stay as small as possible and leave people alone as much as possible. You are not a child. Grow up and deal with your own problems instead of expecting the rest of society to take care of you. - Otto

BTW, a "public option" doesn't actually bother me provided you use absolutely zero tax money to pay for it. Make it paid for entirely by the premiums of the people who opt-in to it, and I have no further argument against it whatsoever. (Also, eliminate the part of the current plan that imposes tax penalties on those of us who choose to not have health insurance, as that is simply flat-out wrong. If I choose to cover my own risk, then that is my business, not the governments.) - Otto

Yeah Otto, that works well. For example banks, mortgage companies, savings and loans, toys from China, Enron.... The naive Libertarian view of the world that somehow everything will work out in the end and all will be well makes me laugh every time I hear it. Greed, perversion, violence, and chaos don't go away when the government goes away. Human run institutions are all equally flawed... more... - Brad Nickel from email

Brad: I don't know what world you're living in, but it's not the same one I am. Government has done very little good in the world, and is in fact responsible for the vast majority of evil in it. Perhaps you forget who's waging wars, eh? A few people inconvenienced by a bank or who signed bad mortgages doesn't really much compare to millions and millions of dead people. Also, "this... more... - Otto

Sure, because the US Department of Defense had absolutely nothing to do with the Internet whatsoever. But I agree. To believe that the government is either completely virtuous or always evil is delusional. - Victor Ganata

Actually Otto, religion and greed are responsible for most of the wars. Whether a government fights them or not is irrelevant and these days its private corporations that are fighting much of our wars and doing a piss poor job of it as evidenced by the debacle that is Iraq. That there is a fine example of where we should have let government run things, but we had to privatize things at... more... - Brad Nickel from email

@Victor: The DoD had very little to do with creating the internet, short of funding it. They paid for it in order to connect universities together (whom they were funding for other projects as well). It's not like they sent over a bunch of engineers to lay some cables or actually wrote any of the protocols or anything. Vint Cerf didn't actually go work for DARPA until 1976. The first pipes were laid when he was still in school. - Otto

@Brad: It's amazing to me that anybody can espouse a philosophy like yours, which enables governments to control the population and do basically anything they like, including killing millions of innocent people through senseless wars and immoral legislation. Corporations didn't bomb Iraq and Afghanistan, the federal government did. Corporations didn't lie to us about the non-existent... more... - Otto

Yes, because ordinary people with no funding or government backing whatsoever can always complete large scale worldwide projects if they just work hard enough, without any assistance. Rugged individualism FTW. - Victor Ganata

@Victor: Why must everything come down to "large scale" and "worldwide" in your view? Are you so incapable of taking care of your own problems that you want to a) take care of everybody else's and b) have yours taken care of by everybody else? We're talking about health care. Why must "health" be a worldwide problem, to the extent that you want to take away individual rights in favor of... more... - Otto

Otto, where are we talking about taking away individual rights? I'm talking about HR 3200, not some fantastical single payer system or some nationalized health care system from your paranoid nightmares. Don't be a fool. Look around you right now. Clearly health can be a worldwide problem. And it's disingenuous to believe the Internet would have been built if some government hadn't been around to provide funding. - Victor Ganata

Silly Otto... Its obvious that an informed conversation with you is impossible, since you are unable to defend your actual philosophy or arguments and rely upon distortions and extremely silly exaggerations to try and make a point when the question being asked can not be answered with the truth. This happens every single time I debate a Libertarian. They can't explain themselves or how... more... - Brad Nickel from email

Because we'll have to pay for your silly self to keep you alive when you are sick and dying and don't have coverage. - Brad Nickel from email

@Victor: HR3200 takes away my right to choose my own health insurance (in my case, none) by imposing additional taxation and penalties for my choice. It also uses tax money to finance the "public option", which I'm firmly opposed to. And it's disingenuous to believe that the internet would have NOT been built if the government had not provided the funding. It would have happened... more... - Otto

@Brad: I'm tired of listening to your socialist and communist rhetoric. (See? I can apply incorrect labels just as well as you can! I'm not a "Libertarian".) Anyway, if you want the government to control your life, keep it to yourself, I'm not interested. Also, if you can find anywhere I called you anything other than "Brad", I'd be very interested. Note: Saying your ideas amount to "totalitarianism" isn't name-calling when it's true. - Otto

You are a funny guy Otto and I mean that in all the ways it can be interpreted. - Brad Nickel

Fine. Welcome to my block list, Brad. If you ever grow up and decide that you want to have a real conversation instead of trolling, then I'll be happy to oblige you. Until then, just rant incoherently to somebody else, eh? - Otto

LOL. See what I mean. You are funny. - Brad Nickel

Are you kidding me about the Internet, Otto? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... Note that 2 of the original nodes were UC schools--government funded public schools. With HR 3200, it's obviously going to take money to get the public option up and running, but it's supposed to be paid back in 10 years. As for the mandate, it's not ideal, but I don't see how else it will work. Otherwise,... more... - Victor Ganata

No, I think they are supposed to let him die. - Brad Nickel

@Victor: No, I'm not kidding, and that link backs up every word I just said about it. As for the public option paying for itself, are you joking? Medicare is continuously in the red (average benefit per person in Medicare is $11,000 per year!) , and you think making a bigger version will somehow magically work? As for the mandate, that's an absolute deal-breaker, because it it is... more... - Otto

That's how government projects almost always work: they award private companies contracts to do the work. Even HR 3200 is structured that way. - Victor Ganata

If you actually look at it, HR 3200 isn't structured like Medicare. And why is it that state laws that mandate you to carry auto insurance if you drive haven't been struck down by the Supreme Court if it's so unconstitutional? If you're totally healthy there are policies with $10,000 annual deductibles that cost like $50 a month. Obviously, the health insurance companies would rather you pay for a more expensive plan if they can get you to. - Victor Ganata

Why in the world is a high deductible insurance plan not what you want, Otto? - Andrew C

"Medicare is continuously in the red" - regular people who aren't on Medicare either lose benefits or coverage entirely or get outrageous rate hikes, so I'm not sure why you seem to keep claiming private insurance is any better... - Andrew C

My goodness, a single-payer plan in BC costs ~$54/person/month and the deductible is way lower than $10K. And what I lose in 'freedom', I gain back in peace of mind and more money in my pocket overall. (and isn't the glibertarian definition of freedom money?) (Amazingly, the US actually spends as much _government_ money on health care per capita as Canada, and then of course far more in private money on top.) - Andrew C

@Victor: a) State laws don't require you to carry auto insurance. They require you to carry auto insurance *OR* post a bond for some fixed amount, in case you hit somebody else. and b) Auto insurance is about liability (protecting other people from you), while health insurance is not (it's about about protecting you from other things, people included). - Otto

@Andrew C: I fail to understand the question. A high deductible insurance plan is not what I want, because it is not what I want. What I want is a health insurance plan that will only cover me from, say, accident. Something that doesn't cover routine crap which I won't be needing anyway, or which I can pay for myself. In cases where there is an accident, I don't want *any* deductible,... more... - Otto

A high deductible plan effectively only covers you for catastrophes, because you're on your own for the first $5K or $10K, so all "routine crap" will be out of pocket. - Andrew C

BTW, not seeing a doctor even for routine checkups is also gambling. Good luck with that. - Andrew C

"Effectively" is not the same thing as actually. And if there was some kind of major incident, I'd still be on the hook for the $10k, which is still problematic. Basically, a high deductible means that you're getting no real coverage at all, it's not disaster coverage. - Otto

The $10k outlay doesn't sound problematic to me; you've been investing your money, right? - Andrew C

Andrew C: No, it's not. There is no actual need for "routine checkups" in a healthy human being. You'd free to disagree, but I'm just going to say you're wrong, and that is that, so there's no point in arguing it. And whether I can afford $10k or not is beside the point, it's still not the type of coverage I actually need or want. - Otto

Otto - You have a valid point that insurance is designed to cover catastrophes. It turns out that preventative medicine helps to avoid catastrophes though. So it is in the best interest of insurance companies to encourage their customers to get preventative care. One way to do that is to pay fot it. Another way to do it would be to give people discounts for getting regular checkups, just like you get discounts on auto insurance for having a good driving record. - Robert Felty

Yeah, there really is no point in arguing with you, not when you just make statements and "that is that". (Good thing cancer never starts off growing in the body for years before becoming a major problem! And that arteries don't ever get clogged before they close up entirely.) - Andrew C

Robert: Preventative medicine does help to avoid catastrophe, however, it's also far cheaper to cover your own costs there instead of relying on insurance coverage to pay for it for you. It makes no sense for insurance to cover basic care. You don't pay for gasoline with your auto insurance, do you? The fact that insurance covers basic care means added burdens to the administrative overhead, higher premiums, etc, etc. It's a bad system overall. - Otto

OK, so you want catastrophic coverage that starts from dollar 1 for accidents, but no insurance for routine procedures. I think this is a little ridiculous, but you're right, I don't think insurance companies offer that. - Andrew C

Insurance companies are actively prevented from offering it, is what you meant to say. Many state laws require certain minimum levels of coverage, so the plan I want/need is unavailable to me because of over-regulation. - Otto

Preventative care isn't gasoline. Food is the analogy to gasoline. And no, health care insurance doesn't pay for food. - Andrew C

@Andrew C: Okay then, if you don't like that metaphor... Does your auto insurance pay for oil changes? My point is that health care should not pay for routine stuff *unless I want it to*. I do not want it to, I'm perfectly capable of dealing with routine stuff on my own. - Otto

Otto - this is not just about you though. It is mostly about the millions of people who don't have any insurance at all right now. Also, with the oil change analogy, that is not quite right either. Standard auto insurance does not pay for vehicle failure. It pays for vehicle damage due to accidents. There probably is a small correlation between frequency of oil changes and automobile accidents, but I bet that the correlation between regular colonoscopies and advanced colon cancer is much higher. - Robert Felty

Robert: Auto insurance does indeed pay for vehicle failure, if you have comprehensive insurance. Depends on the type of failure. On the other hand, you can get liability insurance to only pay for accidents caused by you, if you so want. You have choice of what to get. And I'd venture to bet that the correlation between colonoscopies and colon cancer is indeed quite high, but in the... more... - Otto

Otto - my dad gets regular colonoscopies, because he has diverticulosis, and I am not ready for him to die just yet. - Robert Felty

Robert: He has a medical condition. I'd hardly call that "routine maintenance", sort of thing. - Otto

Sure. The reason why health insurance companies don't offer plans like that are completely because all 50 states have strict mandates, and certainly not because the health insurance companies don't think they're profitable and would prefer that you pay for more coverage. Of course it's always the government's fault, and never the invisible hand's. - Victor Ganata

Victor: In this case, what I said was in fact true. All 50 states and even the federal government have tons of regulations on the health insurance industry. Rates, premiums, etc.. these are all fixed by the individual states. The insurance companies have to work within a very narrow window of guidelines, sort of thing. This is one reason that so many of them have tried hard to deny... more... - Otto

The only regulation I see that applies to all 50 states is that insurance companies have to be solvent, capable of paying claims, and able to process claims in timely fashion. Fact is, the insurance companies have continued to make record profits despite all these regulations, so I'm not exactly going to cry them a river. - Victor Ganata

Switzerland gets by with strict regulation... Admittedly, I doubt they have the kind of catastrophe-only plans you like, but (1) the insurers there make it work, and (2) they achieve better coverage and outcomes than the current US system does. - Andrew C

@Brad Nickel - The right to life does not imply the right to the labor and property of other individuals. Medicine is exactly that: the products and services of tremendously skilled individuals. To claim by right their labor and products is the moral equivalent of slavery. - Crutis

I just can't get over the rhetoric. It truly makes me laugh outloud. Slave labor. It's not worthy of further debate. - Brad Nickel from email

It's hardly slavery when health care professionals take oaths to serve society in exchange for the position of privilege it puts them in. And they provide care that isn't fully compensated quite frequently: it's part and parcel of many of the contracts they sign with insurance companies. Are you going to call that slavery too? - Victor Ganata

@Victor, no I call it what it is: charity. Charity should be encouraged. @Brad, when you stop laughing maybe you can refute the right of a physician to contract with a patient without government interference. Until then the only laughable idea is the logical conclusion of your argument that physicians could be imprisoned unless they run their businesses for free or at a loss. - Crutis

It is impossible to be a physician without government interference, since license to practice is issued by the state. I'm not sure I'd want it otherwise, personally. Anyway, once again we're straying from the topic at hand: there's nothing in HR 3200 that says you have to accept gov't issued insurance, anymore than you have to accept Medicare or Medicaid. It will still be quite possible to have a nice little boutique practice without getting a paycheck from the gov't. - Victor Ganata

I do medical billing for a nursing home. Those of you who are in favor of a public option obviously don't understand Medicare and Medicaid. We couldn't take care of anybody if we had to rely only on what the government pays. And doctors didn't go to school for all those years and incur all that debt just to be civil servants with tons of red tape and poor compensation. There will be a huge shortage of doctors within a decade. If the bill passes the Senate, we're in for a true disaster. - Dawn

Steven Perez to Steven's feed, US Politics

Ten more companies reportedly say they won’t advertise on Beck, bringing total to 46 | Media Matters for America - http://mediamatters.org/blog...

August 27 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

david beckwith, Mitchell Tsai, @baratunde and 41 other people liked this

"Adding to an increasing list of companies distancing themselves from Fox News Channel's Glenn Beck, ten new companies whose ads were recently seen during Beck's program-Applebee's, Bank of America, Bell & Howell, DirecTv, General Mills, Kraft, Regions Financial Corporation, SAM (Store and Move), Travelers Insurance and Vonage-have pledged to take steps to ensure that their ads don't run on Beck's show. Forty-six companies have now committed not to support Beck's show since ColorOfChange.org launched its campaign three weeks ago after the Fox News Channel host called President Obama a "racist" who "has a deep-seated hatred for white people" during an appearance on Fox & Friends. Three of the latest defections-Travelers Insurance, Bell & Howell and DirecTv-join the list of advertisers who claim to have already placed Glenn Beck's program on a "do not air" list, but whose ads have been seen on Beck's program, apparently against their wishes." - Steven Perez from Bookmarklet

80 more comments

You know the less freedom of speech he has. The less we all will have. Political Correctness has gotten whacked out of proportion - Ricky Thomas Cain

He must be doing something right - Josh Haley

Ricky, he has all the freedom of speech he wants, no one is keeping him from speaking his mind. The companies are choosing to not pay him for that speech, the free market is making the point that they don't want to hear what he has to say. That doesn't keep him from talking. - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

Free speech and hate speech are exact opposites, Hate speech like Beck practices routinely has no place in any public setting especially TV that goes in home filled with small children and should be punished - WarLord

Beck being a paranoid, delusional, conspiracy theory loving lunatic probably isn't helping his cause any. - Scratch5150

Read carefully, the companies are being pressured by pro racial groups. How does color of change sound nonracial? - Ricky Thomas Cain

Funny. I thought this was called "letting the free market decide". - Steven Perez

Ricky re:ColorOfChange.org: "Our members are united behind a simple, powerful pledge: we will do all we can to make sure all Americans are represented, served, and protected—regardless of race or class." - LogEx

Steven, Steven, Steven. Didn't you know that the free market only gets to decide when it does what we want? - Ha3rvey (not Akiva)

Oh, I knew. I just thought someone needed to clue Ricky in on this concept. - Steven Perez from IM

Ricky, You do realize that the free speech part of the first amendment refers only to the illegality of the government infringing upon speech. http://www.law.cornell.edu/constit... Corporations are not required to fund his speech. His freedom of speech is not being infringed upon. - Katy S

Beck exercised his freedom of speech and said that our black President had a deep seated hatred of white people, Beck pretty much tossed gasoline and a match in the middle of a racial tinderbox and somehow we should be shocked that a black organization is upset with him? But at the end of the day its simple profit and loss free market - color of change is showing advertisers the color of money and advertisers would rather have a pool of potential customers happy than angry ;) - WarLord

He said he thinks Obama is a racist. How is he preaching hate speech? He also mentioned this once. My brother and half my family that is black and watches him constantly. My only point is, what happens when a group like Color of Change or whatever Political Correctness goes awry, and you cannot sit and say well i don't like handicap people? I say this because I have Cerebral Palsy, do... more... - Ricky Thomas Cain

this is playing out exactly as it should, in my opinion. Beck still has a job and is free to say whatever he wants. likewise, advertisers are free to pay for whatever programming they want. - jbrotherlove

I do agree with that jbrotherlove. I just want to point out ColorofChange does not represent my view. I represent my own, and you are right warlord to a certain point. What violence, mass murders, or beating has beck caused? I myself do not see the acclaimed violence. I am very sure apart of it is ratings driven. And I just feel that eventually none of us will be able to say what we... more... - Ricky Thomas Cain

This is no misunderstanding. This is also not a violation of rights. Corporations have a right to choose who their brands are associated with. The things he said were too close to the edge for some of these companies. Personally, dude is nucking futs and I hope he loses his job. - Rahsheen ™, Coach of FF

You are right corporations do have the right. But besides myself does anyone else here watch him regularly? I ask cause sometimes the biggest critics are those that hear one thing and (Do to one thing) Think he must say far over reaching travesties. This just reminds me of the IMUS thing, IMUS who i did not care for either. Said his things. Even though he was known for his satire, or... more... - Ricky Thomas Cain

Ricky: do you imagine that I *haven't* watched the Human Fart in action? I wasn't impressed by his act on CNN Headline News, and his descent into X-FILES loony bin territory has not changed my opinion of him. He's a world-class buffoon in a three-ring circus, and if advertisers are finally getting wise to his act, then more power to them. - Steven Perez from IM

Ricky - I don't own a television. I'd rather spend my time reading. I have little patience for the yelling back and forth that occurs on most of these shows. It isn't debate or any sort of interactive discourse - it's just people talking at each other and past each other. Having said that, my only point was that this isn't an issue of free speech (constitutionally speaking). - Katy S

Steven :))) - Mahmood Padura

Well, I only asked since I have debated people before saying its so great living in Michigan for an example. The kicker is I know exactly how it is. I will agree, on an few occasions i totally disagree with him, that or i think he is fed the wrong information. Especially regarding technology segments like the Cars 4 Clunkers thing. I was saying have you read any other TOS? (Terms of... more... - Ricky Thomas Cain

sniff - Dave Hodson

What violence, mass murders, etc. has Beck caused? Well, just for starters, there's that guy in Pittsburgh who murdered 3 cops because he thought Obama sent them to take his guns. He also helped Bill O'Reilly get the abortion clinic doctor in Kansas murdered. When the serious terrorism begins, that'll be the end of Glenn Beck. - Dennis Jernberg

So let me see if I understand this, Ricky. Glenn Beck is either (a) too stupid to understand that what he says has ramifications far beyond his mouth or (b) knows exactly what he is saying and doesn't care about the effects. Which is it, Ricky: is Glenn Beck a fool or a liar? - Steven Perez from IM

I don't think he is a fool, he exactly knows what he is doing. - Mahmood Padura

I think they all know exactly what they're doing and they don't care about the consequences, as long as one of them is besmirching the name of the current President Of The United States. - Rahsheen ™, Coach of FF

I think Beck is a fool and a liar, neither of which recommends him. - Ayşe E.

Ricky, the flaw in your argument is that the boycotting corporations don't have to listen to ColorOfChange either. If they thought it was some fringe group that didn't have a valid point of view, they'd go on with business as usual. But the issues *have* been raised and rational people are starting to see (if they hadn't already) that Beck is a hater and a liability and shouldn't be supported. - LogEx

Oh dear god, the Pittsburgh thing is totally misconstrued. If i had a radio and said well there is a higher volume in gun purchases. Does that make you think revolution is imminent? Where is any ones personally responsibility for themselves? Or are we all mass robot drones, that only believe what TV tells us? I prefer to listen, and come to my own conclusion. If that is far too alien of... more... - Ricky Thomas Cain

RE: "Beck is an entertainer." In a word, bullshit. And I'm tired of that fallback excuse. No one ever grabbed a gun and went to a town hall meeting because MR. SMITH GOES TO WASHINGTON or RED DAWN told them to. Stephen Colbert is an entertainer. Glenn Beck is not. - Steven Perez from IM

LMAO at "pro racial groups". - Andrew C

Ricky: "things are spiraling out of control now a days"? Yeah, when people start arming themselves for a town hall meeting, I'd say that things are a bit out of kilter. Especially when said people get their Jefferson references from a third-rate radio show clown on Fox. - Steven Perez from IM

Oh but Glenn, Beck has often said he isn't a journalist and I can very much see his radio personality in the TV show, and where the hell do you get this people arming themselves at town halls? The only guy that got media attention was a black guy, with i believe an M-16 Besides that do you realize it is also the 2nd amendment to bear arms? And Beck might be third rate. But Jefferson was... more... - Ricky Thomas Cain

Um, no, LLL. You don't get to yell FIRE in a crowded theater and then claim that it was all entertainment. - Steven Perez from IM

Ricky: poorly quoting a brave man who was being hunted by government troops because you don't like how a recent election turned out is facetious. And pay attention to the news a little better. More than one ding-a-ling has showed up with weapons at town halls. - Steven Perez from IM

Personally I think Fox News is pure mental poison. It's purpose is to provide hints and innuendo (if not blatantly laying out absurdity) to incite unrest in people who are looking for an excuse to be upset. It twists everything to squeeze out the most absurd and extremist viewpoint just to get people riled up. And it does it all in the name of being "fair and balanced." It is an evil... more... - Her Lindsay-ness

First gun at a town hall that Obama attended was a white guy with a pistol open carried in a tactical holster and a sign that said(approximately) that the tree of liberty needed to be watered by the blood of tyrants... There is little question in my mind of the intent and message of that sign with Obama in hall right next door - WarLord

Quoting myself from elsewhere: In my opinion, the current healthcare debate has become, unfortunately, the civil war of our time - thanks to people on both sides spreading misinformation - and again, I am particularly critical of Faux News - so if you happen to be conservative, and see this as a bias on my part, fine. But when you watch through the lens of retrospect over the past, oh,... more... - ProsePetals (aka Denise)

The point is quite simple, LLL, and Lindsay has touched on it already at some length. Further than that, I'll say this: Fox is now courting the very types of people that made the 19 April 1995 bombing of Oklahoma City possible, and they're doing it to score cheap political points for a political party. Clowns like Beck and Hannity are stirring unrest because they think that it's good... more... - Steven Perez from IM

Click on the link and find out. - Steven Perez from IM

++ [Lindsay|Lynn Thing] ... I just cringe when I see Fox "news" on a TV. I get such a racist, closed-minded, xenophobic vibe, it really creeps me out. - LogEx

@LogEx - I just hate what it's doing to my family who watch it all the time and are absolutely convinced that the US is completely going down the tubes, Obama wants to kill all the old people, and we're all about to become "socialist slaves". Many hours of sleep have been lost over these ridiculous ideas. Things are not great, but they've been worse and we will all get through this. MUCH EASIER if we quit the damn fighting and focus on finding solutions that work for everyone. - Her Lindsay-ness

I think Fox is primarily geared towards ratings and they have a lot of experience pushing the buttons of a large uneducated, simpleton population of dullards, racists, dipshits and dumbasses. I doubt the guys at the top really give a damn about politics. In the end, most of Pres Obama's policies are awful similar to Pres. Bush's. Beck is a clown who's job is to get butts in front of the... more... - Internet's Tad

LOL the obama attended one was the Black guy, and Hannity I will agree is far far mor Right Wing, I can't stand his viewpoints. As to the pistol point just watch http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Ricky Thomas Cain

I guess what really makes me embarrassed is that my family ends up being lumped in with the "uneducated, simpleton population of dullards, racists, dipshits and dumbasses." I wanted better for them. And they think that I'm the one who's deluded... or maybe just uppity. - Her Lindsay-ness

Yeah - we're uppity. Trying to think for ourselves and stuff. - Internet's Tad

See what happens when you go for that book-larnin', Tad? :) - Steven Perez from IM

I don't take him seriously, not everything he says. I mentioned a criticism above about him. I listen to him for a different point of view. Since I listen to all points of view. That is the beauty in understanding points of VIEW. Even if they are tottally off base or not. I like debate, I watch MSNBC and CNN as well. - Ricky Thomas Cain

Beck plays mid-day on the talk radio station I listen to here in town. I like to see how long I can stand listening to him at lunch - I think my record is maybe 10 minutes. Of those 10 minutes maybe 6 or 7 consist of Beck talking about... Beck. - Internet's Tad

Then I wonder why you bothered arguing at all, Ricky. After all, pressuring companies with the threat of no business has been in vogue at least since 1955: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Steven Perez

There will always be stuff to be upset about... that's life. But you need to realize what's really WORTH spending your limited time and energy worrying about... what you can actually change... what's really YOUR business... and what's just a lie... The problem is that we need to get people back toward the middle and not the extremes that Fox News and Glenn Beck help polarize. Choose your battles and make sure they're actually worth fighting. - Her Lindsay-ness

My point was in the beginning at my first comment. Also the Montgomery boycotts may be simmillar but boycotting a civil law or abstaining from it. Is far different then, a civilaian private company/mouth piece for fox. One is a TV where you can change the channel, the other is a true civil rights issue. Beck isn't a civil Rights issue. Though I understand what you are trying to say via the boycott. The Colorofchange group does not represent everyone, but only themselves that are involved. - Ricky Thomas Cain

That will be cold comfort to the next victims of Fox-inspired violence, Ricky. - Steven Perez from IM

Beck is more in the mold of Father John McLaughlin, who in the 30's had a radio show where he started blaming certain "minorites" for the problems of the great depression. Good riddance to anyone who yells FIRE in a crowded room. Beck is an immoral person and I know a few peopel who worked with him in the past, when he worked in a lil ol radio station in Washington State. - Steven Taub

And also, freedom of speech doesnt apply here. You work for a company that deals in speech issues, you can do what you want. Freedom of Speech doesn't mean while you're on contract with a private company, that you can say anything you want. Despite Fox's hideous political ways masked as independent thinking, they were smart to realize that Beck is a liablity. . - Steven Taub

When, a shooter says Glenn Beck said this or I heard it on Fox News I will be more inclined to believe it. HOWEVER there is still Fruitcakes in the world. You should try living in Germany, a game as simple as Command and Conquer is Illegal there, if you are in possession of it you go to jail. You wanna know why? It incites violence as they say over there. Do you believe the game incites violence? Even if it is just a strategic war game? - Ricky Thomas Cain

And yet, Ricky: http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Steven Perez

Sarah Palin Tells Facebook Friends: Watch Glenn Beck! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009... (The two deserve each other.) - Dennis Jernberg

There's a pair, for sure. - Her Lindsay-ness

lol you really believe the huffing ton post is a reliable news source? Besides need i say i voted Bob Barr or would have Ron Paul - Ricky Thomas Cain

No, Ricky. I think I could have figured that one out. Also, not at all germane to the point. - Steven Perez from IM

Ricky: I didn't say the Huffington Post was a reliable news source, at least if you lean rightward. But this story was so perfect I had to post the link. As for Ron Paul: if he had run, I would have voted for him. And I lean leftward. - Dennis Jernberg

As to the link Steve there is always a bias. I dont agree with everything the young turks do. I dont believe he is totally being unbiased. Though he has certain parts he is right on with his point of views. I lean as a Strict Constitutionlist i do consider myself a moderate. - Ricky Thomas Cain

Well, thank you for missing the point, Ricky. I'll try again, and this time, with a much shorter clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Steven Perez from IM

It's simple. Corporations care about money - that's it. They don't want to appear to endorse viewpoints that alienate significant portions of their customers. If there is a chance that they will lose customers (due to boycotting), they will definitely pull their ads. That's why boycotting works. It is only about money really. - Kenya

And for the record: I haven't met a Strict Constitutionalist who didn't think that they weren't moderate. - Steven Perez from IM

LOL well let me put it this way if it deals with government. I turn into an anti government guy! If it deals with social issues (with no government involvement) i can lean both ways or i sit out the issue. I apologize above, i got a link to the Young Turks link first. I am looking at the second one. I got his point, the crowd says fear, he (bob ingalis) says hold on one sec. Which he... more... - Ricky Thomas Cain

Ricky, the guy didn't get booed because he said, "Hey, Glenn Beck sucks." He got booed because he told people, "Look, that Beck guy is feeding you a line. Stop listening to him." At which point, he got the loudest boos of the day. Because he called out an "entertainer". This does not bespeak of a sound and balanced worldview. - Steven Perez from IM

If someone tells me, "Hey, you should stop watching Rachel Maddow. She lies all the time," my reaction is not going to be "STFU, pusbag!" It will be something along the lines of "Such as?" In other words, prove to me that you are correct. Shouting people down and carrying a piece tells me that you've already lost the argument and now are resorting to just being a bully. - Steven Perez from IM

But in a general view that is when either in their perspective they saw Bob as either 1) Telling them what to do or 2) Hes criticizing something I like I am only looking at it from a psychological point of view. Since I took 2 years of psych in High School, as well as a year of Political Science Business Law, and local tort law. Am I an expert no. That is where it becomes my opinion, I would probably react the same as you would. However we are not everyone else. - Ricky Thomas Cain

And I reiterate: Fox is now courting the very types of people that made the 19 April 1995 bombing of Oklahoma City possible, and they're doing it to score cheap political points for a political party. Clowns like Beck and Hannity are stirring unrest because they think that it's good for ratings. They are small children playing with matches, and even when they burn the house down,... more... - Steven Perez from IM

And I say there still needs to be personal self responsibility. Also there are fruitcakes in the world. I must say I gotta sleep heh, I enjoyed our debate of minds. Notice I believe we all debated fairly which I think is better then some weird comments i get from a user named Madonna on VOX about tea parties. Cause i had a status message of 2 days till Lansing Tea party woohoo. Or a... more... - Ricky Thomas Cain

And don't forget the "Friend Of Bush" who hires these guys: Rupert Murdoch. He owns everything Fox including Fox News, plus such right-wing outlets as the Weekly Standard and the Wall Street Journal. Beck, Hannity, O'Reilly, Coulter, etc. may encourage the wingnuts and terrorists, but Murdoch approves it. He's the king at Fox. - Dennis Jernberg

Just to make a quick comment. You do know Murdoch is Australian, and Fox News and News corp are Australian in orign. I read up on Murdoch once and was suprised. Murdoch is actually a liberal in his personal views. Its Roger that is the staunch conservitive. Anyways Night all - Ricky Thomas Cain

Fine, Ricky. Like I said: chidren. Matches. Boom. Doesn't matter where it came from, the result is always the same. - Steven Perez from IM

That clown makes O'Reilly sound like William F. Buckley Jr.. - Christopher A Carr

Yes but the beauty is we have the freedom to all make a choice. It was a great debate Steve i enjoyed it. - Ricky Thomas Cain

To Ricky - I know this debate is "closed" but there are two thoughts I cannot let slide. First. Rupert Murdoch is NOT a liberal - he was *never* a liberal. Australian born, with dual Australian-American citizenship, yes. Liberal, no. News Corporation is neither Australian nor liberal. That is a distortion of the history. News Corporation *was* founded in Australia, just as Murdoch was... more... - ProsePetals (aka Denise)

I received word back from a friend in Australia, and he offered this very insightful bit of information to dispel ANY doubt about Murdoch's political proclivities: "The Australian version of the Republicans is the Liberal Party. Murdoch has notoriously allied himself with the right wing of the Liberal party, and with the right wing of the Labor party. His meeting with soon-to-be Prime... more... - ProsePetals (aka Denise)

Dry your eyes mate - Kevin J Hatton

( the partisan side of myself) I'm really enjoying this, I really want to know how Murdoch himself can justify keeping him around. - Tate DA FF MVP

Mona Nomura

Holy wtf Batman >:( - http://www.diefatty.com/general...

September 15, 2008 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Rick Cogley, bnoise, Tyson Key and 43 other people liked this

via Adam: http://friendfeed.com/e... - Mona Nomura from Bookmarklet

21 more comments

AHahaha haahahahahahahaha damn.... - J. Abdul-Qahhar

Bacon as a strong issue in religion? - Mo Kargas

I think its about time that the Religion vs Bacon argument was brought into our schools. - Slippy "Threadsbane" Lane

I guess that baconists and pastafarians mix well together - Jemm

Yes they do that sect is called the Carbonaraists.(pasta, bacon, sausage, egg, cheese, butter, oh and parsley). - Mark Interrante

Carbonaraist SPLITTERS! Everyone knows that the one true FSM favours the meatball as the only meat to serve with pasta. - Slippy "Threadsbane" Lane

haha my 13 yr old niece calls herself a pastafarian on some of her online profiles. - Laura Norvig

I'd take bacon over heaven any day. Mainly because bacon is heaven, so, you know, two birds. - Rachel

No God of mine would hate bacon. - The Archangel ωαřмaiden

He loves and hates us, you mean? :( - Mona Nomura

via me: http://friendfeed.com/e... :) - ·[▪_▪]·

Wha??? this is weird. The only religious thing with bacon I know about is that orthodox jewish folks do not eat bacon (pork products). That's it... no biggee deal... these signs are weird! - Susan Beebe

@Susan i'm thinking these are shopped. - ·[▪_▪]·

·[•_•] - totally agree! - Susan Beebe

I thought for a second I remembered hearing, "The bacon of Christ" in a liturgy in Catholic school, but surely I remembered incorrectly. - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

Derrick, your religion thread reminded me of this LOL - Mona Nomura

Mona, I swear, I didn't mean for that thread to venture off the way it did. I pondered something, asked it, and there you go. I'm thinking I'm skipping bacon and going straight to the smoked pork shoulder, though. Send cole slaw. - Derrick

Have you ever received that stale bread they call The Body of Christ during mass? That is nowhere near as tasty as bacon. - Joe Pierce

*without reading thread* BaconFTL! *hides* - Yuvi

So. The wages of sin is bacon? How do I join this religion? - Victor Ganata

Victor: http://friendfeed.com/monasfe... - Mona Nomura

Mona, the website is gone :( There is no God! - Victor Ganata

Anthony Citrano

WTF does patriotism even *mean*? Loyalty to what, exactly? A logo? A vague concept? Unthinking nationalism? Or is it about ideals? Sorry, Virginia, but patriotism ain't blind loyalty and putting a sticker on your car.

August 23, 2008 - Comment - Like - Share

Alex Scrivener, CAJ, somewhere else, Jared B. Luther and 14 other people liked this

...I can't like or agree with this enough!!! - JA Castillo

17 more comments

Look at that. Here we are having a complete argument in one thread and then you post something with which I absolutely and completely agree. - Brad Nickel

I really like this post. Except I think 'Virginia' should read 'America'. - Aaron Hood

@Aaron - "Virginia" is a metaphor for the average American. Thanks though. There's a good quote from Mark Twain on the subject .. I'll attach when I can find it. - Anthony Citrano

I really hope the upcoming generation figures out the answer to this question. Really. - Josh Haley

@Anthony- Understood. @Josh- We're working on it. Or trying to at least. - Aaron Hood

I think it means putting two american window flags on your car. - Alex Scoble

But only after some grave national crisis. - Alex Scoble

Also requires the use of the magnetic yellow "support the troops" ribbons. I know when I was in Iraq, I only felt better by knowing that so many people supported me by their use of magnetic yellow ribbons. - Michelle Martinez

Yeah, what's bad is that not one dollar made selling those magnetic things ever made it to the troops, unlike all the Live Strong paraphernalia. Those stickers really annoyed me as a former member of the armed forces. The best way to support the troops would have been to vote for someone that wouldn't have sent our troops overseas to an unnecessary war. - Alex Scoble

Michelle & Alex- YES! Please stop showing off that you support the troops by having a magnet on your car. Send your money to the USO or to a veteran's fund. We don't need to know that you support the troops. - Aaron Hood

I remember the sense in the days after 9-11 when it was felt that this event was too horrible, too precious to be commercialized. Everyone was doing everything for free or at cost and if anything so much as *smelled* commercial, people were shamed. It didn't take us too long to get from there to the Franklin Mint late-night TV commercials selling "limited edition" $50 coins with a flag and a little World Trade tower on them that "rose" out of the coin... - Anthony Citrano

Yep, Abby, and what did that take, a whole month? - Anthony Citrano

Patriotism is what spiritual link connects you to your country or nation! It's like the kingdom of heaven, it is in your heart!! Those who put stickers on their cars are capable of that much only - appearances. Nationalism, ideals, loyalty are empty but charged words...for those who can do no better. - Hayk H.

Sounds like hogwash to me, Hayk. I am asking for a more specific definition of patriotism, specifically what Americans mean when they say it. I disagree that the words are empty - so long as we explain what we mean when we say them - because coming from most people they are simply platitudes. - Anthony Citrano

Anthony, you are right. I reread and thought of it as much :) But we put meanings into words. As for definitions, here is one, "Patriotism is a feeling of pride and love for one's country." ....... 'Nietzsche wrote that words with a history cannot be defined. Their meanings are in their stories, their biographies. That is surely the case with "patriotism." Patriotism is as patriots have done.' Source: http://bit.ly/3ZW7bp - Hayk H.

Dave R using my least favorite say-nothing term “un-American” inspired me to bump this. - Anthony Citrano

You're welcome! - Dave Roth

"Patriotism" is to the average citizen what "Electability" is to the average politician. They are both vague and ever-changing consensus of the population (or media, for the cynics out there.) - Scott Ohlemacher

Rochelle

When I'm not holding Audrey, I'm usually holding my other child.

June 16 - Comment - Like - Share

Wulffy, Bren, Photophobe, Lynne d Johnson and 83 other people liked this

MAN MAN - Akiva Moskovitz

35 more comments

Max says hi! - joey

So that's what Akiva looks like :P - Johnny Worthington

What a cutie!! - Katy S

I have a lustrous and healthy coat. I also shed. - Akiva Moskovitz

If you have a shedding problem, you really should look into purchasing and using a Furminator: http://www.furminator.com/ - Katy S

Katy, we have a Furminator! I love that thing. - Rochelle

I meant for Akiva - but then, maybe that's what you meant too.... I love it, too. With two cats, I would have a real problem without it. - Katy S

This child likes laser beams a little more then the other. - veo

Ooh, I need one of those. - joey

Veo, I forgot to tell you (to tell Eric) that we ordered a new one. It'll be here tomorrow. - Rochelle

YAY! the batteries kept falling out of the other one. - veo

It always amazes me how comfortable some felines are when laying on their backs or side. Cats are funny like that - Terence

OMG he has the best cat face ever! - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

Beautiful Kitty!!!!!! - Rachel Lea Fox

Akiva! - WorldofHiglet

I love your kitties expression in the first picture LOL - martha

Yeah, that's classic. "She wants to watch WHAT? with me?" - Chris, Taskerrific Guy

Spike's eyes remind me of the GMORK from neverending story: http://greenhunter.files.wordpress.com/2008... - veo

Cute!! - Alex Scoble

She looks so soft and lovable. - James Stratford

And the cat's not half bad either, right James? - Mattb4rd

Veo, that is awful. - Rochelle

*dead* at veo - Derrick

AW look at the fur between his toes! - BEX

Cutie catty...:) - Prabodh

Claws make for a difficult labor - Matthew DeVries

love the white marking on his face. it looks like an upside down heart. - Marie is organized.

Fabulous looking cat, looks like a real character! - Kevin J Hatton

cutest.kitty.evar! <3 - vijay

CAT! - Simon Wicks

Audrey is a great name for a cat. - Gilbert Harding

WHAT a beautiful kitteh. Rochelle, do you ICHC??? ;) - 'Like' robot (frɐnc)

What is ICHC? - Rochelle

I CAN HAZ CHEEZEBURGER? - Alex Scoble

yes, exactly that. ...I suppose you dont ;P haha - 'Like' robot (frɐnc)

Aww - Tyson Key

Mona Nomura

iPanties: Slide to Unlock - http://www.facebook.com/ext...

May 5 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Tanath, HealingBrush, Rick Cogley and 230 other people liked this

Too bad they're grannies. - Mona Nomura from Bookmarklet

80 more comments

No. - Derrick

you call those grannies? Honey, you don't know grannies. - Laura Norvig

Derrick honey, you are biased. ;) Laura - those are totally grannies!! - Mona Nomura

Locks? I'm not sure I like the lock idea ;-) - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

Look at where the slider is positioned, people! - Mona Nomura

i like 'em. - ♥patricia♥

You have a sexy, sexy granny Mona. - Internet's Tad

Is it a worry that you had to call out the lock location? And as far as grannies go... they're alright :-) - Rob Kramer

Where's the t-back version? - AJ Kohn

those are plain ole' bikini underwear. These are granny panties: http://bp3.blogger.com/_svG_Pa... - Laura Norvig

@Laurie, Oh man. Those are serious granny panties! - ♥patricia♥

I'm thinking Mona likes the kind of underwear that covers her womanly bits with dental floss. [EDIT: Not that there's anything wrong with that. I bet she looks smokin' in em.] - Laura Norvig

+1 Laura - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

Speaking as a heterosexual male, I think these are great. - Tudor Bosman from email

Partial to the floss ;-) and LOL @ Rick - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

Rob, you do seem to have the physique to be able to wear floss appropriately... - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

Or why where any at all? - Charles Alden

HA! I didn't mean for myself! - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

I've always liked the bikini cut... - matthew john ernisse

Charles: the seam in blue jeans can be quite irritating for some people, knickers help prevent that. - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

With my luck I'd get the endless, spinning color wheel. - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF) from fftogo

instructions, pffft...i dont need no stinkin instructions! - Carlos Ayala

++MVB!! LOL And Laura, those are horrific! - Mona Nomura

OHHHHH SNAP - Andru Edwards

*calls wife to ask if it's okay to "like" this* - Ha3rvey (not Akiva) from fftogo

Hahhahahha! Harvey! - Mona Nomura

I'm surprised Apple wasn't like, NOPE SORRY. "Objectionable content." Lawsuit. - Shawn Farner

Charles: Try riding a horse bareback while going commando. You'll become a believer (at least part time!) - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

Wow, Gizmodo faked the model shot. That's dedication to your craft right there. - invariant - farewell FF

Where's Leather Donut?...weighing in with his intuitive thoughts??? Myself: Granny nope :/ - sofarsoShawn

Me doing my LD impersonation: RAWR! - ♥patricia♥

Me doing my LD impersonation: easy & easy access double RAWR! - sofarsoShawn

Wow - I've seen this on a T-shirt, a doormat but THIS is awesome! - BEX

Awesome. - Sean Oliver

Bloomers = grannies -

Plus, if they were granny panties, shouldn't a grandmother be in the photo? lol -

1up Outsanity...but, ewwwww - sofarsoShawn

For Shawn to say ewwww I am terrified of reading Out's comment. So I will not loolllll! - Mona Nomura

You know you're going to... Your finger is just itching to click the more comments link, lol -

I can slide it with open arms. :) - Alp

This beats all other iterations of the "slide to unlock" schwag... - Jon, the Beartato of FF

Out, I am not loll! You're freaky deaky dude. And you guys are all missing where the actual slider is positioned. Cha-Chiiiing! - Mona Nomura from IM

Mona, I know you are hinting at something so but I've been rubbing my screen for the last hour trying to work it out and all Ive done is worn a hole....what am I doing wrong? - Threepwood

lollll!!!! Hahahahhahahahhahahhahahha!!!!! - Mona Nomura

I love that people on this thread mimicked another user's comments. That is just so great. And Laura- those grannies are criminal. - anna sauce

OK random comment, what is the nailpolish doing in the granny pants photo? - anna sauce

Anna!! I didn't even look at the granny-roos Haha! - Mona Nomura

Fantastic!! :D - Roberto from fftogo

notice how everything predicated with an "i" now a days....now iPanties...what's next...by golly? - sofarsoShawn

iWin7? lolll! - Mona Nomura from IM

iAn Ziering started it! - Joe Pierce

Its all nice but please get it off Celina Jaitley, she is yuck and she talks weirdly. Please photoshop it on someone else. Then I would enjoy it more. =P - Faraz Mullick

supper :) - Serkan URHAN

Mona these are not grannies, Laura's url was grannies. seriously! - anna sauce

These are TOTALLY grannies! - Mona Nomura

They dont' look granny like to me. I'm just sayin' - Joe Pierce

whatever you call them they look good on her :) - (jeff)isageek

@Jeff, yeah, but they'd look even better on her floor! Bah-dump, cha! Thank you, thank you. I'm here all week. - Joey Gibson

* _ * - yasin ghasemi

From what Kevin Smith told me, every woman has a pair of granny panties. - Steven Perez

MONA WINS THE HOLY FUCKING SHIT AWARD! - teh Dork Knight

I agree: NOT GRANNIES! SHEEEEESH!! I would call these normal undies :) - Zulema ◕ ◡ ◕

want - Baard @ Pixum

Is there an API for that? ;) - Jason Williams

Or just an Auto-Lock = Never setting ... - Patrick Jordan

Aren't those things always permanently on Auto-Lock? - Kittyburgers

The password is always TEQUILA - Moved to Facebook from fftogo

This would sell AWESOME in the Chicks with D*cks/ Wangs demographic (hermaphrodites/pre or /during op Trannies) market, so as to jump the lines at sporting venues etc. & YES they ARE GRANNIES! - sofarsoShawn

面白い。けど、パートナーがこれつけてたら大ウケしちゃって、Un-lockどころじゃなくなりそう（笑）。 - Sakurai.Catshop

それよりムードが・・・（汗）あはw　お初です。萠と申します。てきとーによろしくです☆ - Mona Nomura

これをつけているときはok.のサイン……いや待て、そもそも下着を肉眼で確認できるときは、すでにStartしてるよな……？ - 椎出啓

椎出啓氏：だと思われますw - Mona Nomura

@mona 初めましてです。monaさんのポストは、よくlikeされるみたいで、実はちょくちょくお見かけしておりました。 - Sakurai.Catshop from fftogo

ありがとうございます！レス、いつでも大歓迎ですよー　日本語打つ機会あまりないしw　てか最近日本語忘れ気味でヤバイです。かなーり・・・（汗）w - Mona Nomura

With my luck, they'd be password protected. - Robert Hafer

Mona, if these are granny undies, what exactly do you wear? lol - Daynah

Anna, apparently the nail polish is there to give perspective on how giant the panties are. Full story (towards the bottom of this post): http://metalia.blogspot.com/2007... - Laura Norvig

Liked 滑动解锁裤衩 XD http://is.gd/x2pF - sG

creative :-) - Rick Cogley

@Mona - ウケる。これ見たらなんもできないね。 - Rick Cogley

@Mona: checkout http://ipanties.weebly.com. They are real! - david braginsky

Anthony Citrano

The FIOS dispatch lady called. We still on for tomorrow, she asked? Oh yes we are, ma'am, like a cheap suit in church!

May 6 - Comment - Like - Share

Beau Liening, Alex Scoble, Mona Nomura and Brad Nickel liked this

So jealous. Dear Verizon, please save me from AT&T and Comcast. Please come to Miami. - Brad Nickel

FIOS for a little over a year now. Still awesome. - Michael Pardee

Anthony Citrano

Folk: let's all, together, agree there's a big difference between KNOWING something is true and WANTING it to be true. Random example: I wish, wish, WISH that most of America's big banks were not totally insolvent. But all my wishing / praying / rain-dancing does not change the fact that they *are*.

May 2 - Comment - Like - Share

Alex Scoble, bcultral, AJ Kohn and 2 other people liked this

@Mohomed, that's true. I only know 99.9%. ;) - Anthony Citrano

Truth is in the eye of the beholder. - CW™

@Jason - are you channeling GWB? - Anthony Citrano

Anthony Citrano

Confirmed: Miss California's Breast Implants Funded By Pageant | Huffington Post | http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009...

May 2 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Jorin Cowley, Mycaptain, Steve C and 14 other people liked this

[News Anchor] RODRIGUEZ: “Why is the best possible confidence involve getting breast implants? Why does that improve her odds of winning? Why in that meeting don't you discourage her from going that route, rather than help her to pay for breast implants?” - Anthony Citrano from Bookmarklet

22 more comments

[Pageant Director] LEWIS: “Well, we would never encourage her to go that route, but...” - Anthony Citrano

RODRIGUEZ: “But why not discourage her?” - Anthony Citrano

LEWIS: “... it's a personal choice.” - Anthony Citrano

Regardless of who she is or who bought 'em: that's a rather sad boob job. - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

@Tina: LOL - AJ Kohn

Why not just have each state pluck some semi-pretty woman with low self-esteem and do a full on nip/tuck makeover - let the best plastic surgeon win! *groan* - AJ Kohn

LEWIS: “Many of the girls use chicken cutlets.” - Anthony Citrano

Cutlets? Why not chicken breasts? - Jim Espinoza

AJ...sounds like you got yourself a tv show...sad thing is it would probably do well... - Jeffrey Marsh

@Jeffrey: Sad, but ... probably true. And then 10 years down the line there's the 'Where Are They Now' episodes. - AJ Kohn

@AJ and @Jeffrey - I dunno why that's sad. Or rather, why it would be any sadder than, say, ‘The Bachelor’. - Anthony Citrano

So much of this to be sad about... Her overzealous desire to win a beauty contest at all cost and be a product,(even a bad boob job), the contest's need to win and treat her like a product, the media's need to discuss it, our need to watch this train wreck.... sigh... - Brad Nickel

@Anthony: Equally sad. Bachelor is ... terrifying IMO. - AJ Kohn

But Brad, if modifying oneself to be a better ‘product’ is an innately sad thing, there are millions of sad people around. Not a day goes by that I don't see advice being solicited about: how to write a better resume, which classes to take to excel in certain professions, how to kiss your boss' ass, or how best to get the attention of a ‘hiring manager’. Same shit, different outfits. - Anthony Citrano

And BTW I don't really think it's a bad boob job myself. - Anthony Citrano

Not a bad augmentation, the valley still runs too wide but she chose an appropriate size to her build. - Janet

Why does her body look like Skeletor? - Derrick

You leave Skeletor out of this. - jojo, adventurer

@jlt, agreed re: sizing, but she'll likely need that valley in her future porn career. - Anthony Citrano

I said it was a bad boob job for the simple fact that it decidedly looks like a boob job. Natural C cups don't look like skin colored Tupperware in a string bikini like that. As for the visible sternum ridges (aka the Skelator look), that's a whole 'nother discussion that I'll leave for another time. - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

And she has a gap the size of the Grand Canyon between them!!! - Lokei Atikus™®

@Tina: I hear ya, but many who get boob jobs aren't going for the totally ‘natural’ look; they're going for the ‘better-than-natural’ look. (And, of course, that's purely subjective.) @Lokei: I bet Janet wishes she had thought of that. - Anthony Citrano

@Lokei, grand canyon ties Tina's Tupperware comment (total LOL), but Anthony did suggest she had a great career for after the beauty pagent competitions :) - Janet

Anthony Citrano to Anthony's feed, fashion photography

Greg Williams Photography | http://www.gregfoto.com

April 27 - Comment - Like - Share

HealingBrush, googirl, Michael Fidler and 33 other people liked this

Are you dating one of these girls Anthony? - Matthew DeVries

3 more comments

3rd pic - blown away! - vijay

@matthew: that's confidential. ;) @vijay: yep, I love that pic of Naomi! - Anthony Citrano

Just not right..... sigh - Brad Nickel

I love the way the website is done. Brilliant! - Mark Philpot

Anthony Citrano

Who in the fuck EVER actually believed it was “unpatriotic” to question our leaders? Stand up and be counted. (In the spirit of full disclosure, I believe it's about the most patriotic thing one can do.)

April 15 - Comment - Like - Share

Parth Awasthi, tinypants - Hagitha of FF, sam and 31 other people liked this

You tree hugging liberal! - Mona Nomura

38 more comments

Sure beats a Bush hugging conservative! ;) - jcunwired

It is the duty of every Patriot to defend his Country from it's Government. - Robert Hafer

I'm a nationalist -- remember I'm Japanese? ;) - Mona Nomura

2 words (and a link) "Question Everything". http://cli.gs/LbGh50 - ‘-.-’ Tutivillus Grift

I seem to recall a time period immediately after 9/11/2001 where it was extremely unpopular to question government policy. I don't remember seeing any real public dissent until 2003, when a handful of people realized how ridiculous it would be to invade a country that had nothing to do with the attacks and took to the streets. I do believe "traitor" was quite a popular word to describe these protesters. And yet, somehow, I doubt anyone is going to say "aye" to your question, Anthony. - Victor Ganata

I'm a progressive libertarian conservative liberal. ;) Now, back to the subject, I agree Victor... it was a lonely time for those of us stomping our feet. - Anthony Citrano

Victor - that's the exact reason why I stay out of political discussion. 9-11 traumatized me. - Mona Nomura

A smart population would have been *roused* to public engagement by 9-11, but Bush told everyone the best way they could help was by going to the mall. He's my hero. - Anthony Citrano

Anthony: 90% of the population has an IQ of 120 or lower. Humans aren't, by definition, generally smart. - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

Victor: You're right. In fact, Dick Cheney came right out and said that anyone who questioned the government was supporting the terrorists. - Kevin Pedraja

I've always thought nationalism is one of the most pernicious forces in history, responsible for quite a few atrocities. I actually never thought I would witness how destructive it is in my lifetime, in my country of birth, but here we are. And now no one is going to publicly confess to buying into the frenzy and fanning its flames. - Victor Ganata

Can there be a distinction between valuing criticism of leadership, and assuming bad intentions? - Edward Zwart

Getting some real West Coast intellectualism here. Awesome profundity. - Douglas Hopkins

Is that East Coast sophistication? or Mid West pragmatism? - Edward Zwart

FFing Enigma: you're cracking me up.. you even cited my 90% rule (90% of all people are pretty stupid) - Bill Rawlinson

I've always questioned my government. i publicly disagreed with Bush back in his heyday (getting nasty emails as a result) and I'm even questioning my government now, on both economic policy and treatment of prisoners not in Guantanamo Bay. IMHO, if you aren't capable of having a clear-eyed view of how your leaders operate, then what's the point of being involved in the decisions your country makes (i.e. voting)? - Helen Sventitsky

It's the truth,though, at least if one is a believer in the standard bell curve model of IQ. Average is 100. 80% of the population is within 1 std deviation from normal, so 80-120. Ergo, 90% are 120 or below (though really 120 isn't exactly 'stupid' that's std college graduate IQ level). - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

Questioning our leaders is a good thing, calling returning veterans "baby killers" is a bad thing - Robert Hafer

Kind of goes along with Sturgeon's Law, really. Maybe the reason why 90% of everything is crap is that 90% of everyone is stupid. :) - Victor Ganata

Don't sweat Douglas, guys. This is what he does. He shows up for a minute, makes a snide remark about the general nature of the discussion, then evaporates. @Helen - exactly. - Anthony Citrano

Question Authority was my parents mantra for me along with love one another. - Brad Nickel

"ain't no use to try and wait for the magic word..." - Jason Citrano

Alas I have nothing insightful to add but I agree with Anthony and Tina's comments and was particularily ashamed of how quiet the people were post 9-11. Scare tactics worked internally. - Steve C

Robert, who's calling returning soldiers baby killers? Sure, there's always people on the extremes who say or do ridiculous things, but for the most part today's soldiers enjoy extremely strong and widespread support from the general public, even people like me who think invading Iraq was dumbest foreign policy blunder in a generation. But, more importantly, what does this have to do with the discussion at hand? - Kevin Pedraja

I wonder when we Americans will finally get over Vietnam. Probably never. - Victor Ganata

When we stop having new ones, Victor. - Alex Scoble

Ahh-men, Alex. - Anthony Citrano from BuddyFeed

Also having countries stop stomping on our feet would be nice too. But doubt it. And I consider myself a independent leaning republican and I didn't care much for Bush. And been wondering about Obama for some time. I personally don't care for government controlling everything and that worries me. Not to mention what Obama considers "rich". I hate politics but they control our lives so what can you do? - Shawn aka ringking

Does everyone claiming 90% of people are stupid believe they belong in the last 10%? - Eivind

Eivind: I wasn't exactly saying 90% of people are stupid, I was just pointing out the standard deviations of IQ. With that said, I know where I stand on that spectrum - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

Aint your leaders there to SERVE you.... ? So you HAVE to stand up for whatever it you believe in regardless WHO is leading? - Rob Sellen :o)

I know you weren't saying that Tina. But then all you are left with is a statement that 10% of the population are smarter than the remaining 90% :) - Eivind

The only reason I brought it up is because Anthony said a smart population would do X. The reality, though, is that there is no 'smart population', the standard bell curve makes it impossible. - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

Agreed, Tina. - Anthony Citrano

Hmmm. To answer this somewhat seriously, those who questioned the patriotism of dissenters tended to be in the conservative media; of course, Fox News (O'Reilly, et. al.), Limbaugh, Coulter. Additional universes included country radio (Hello, remember the Dixie Chicks and what they went through?), middle class consumer outlets (WalMart). There were a lot of stopping points for dissent. And to point fingers, the New York Times did its best to saddle up to the administration lest we forget Judith Miller. - Cole Jolley

To be more plain about it, how many members of Congress voted in support of the war, despite an OVERWHELMING amount of evidence from external media sources that there wasn't any threat from Hussein? 77-23 in favor from the Senate, 296-133 in favor in the House. - Cole Jolley

Ok Tina, I'm gonna let this go really soon, I promise:) I guess it is a reasonable approximation if we say that the average IQ in the US is 100 and the distribution fits a bell curve. And then you define 'smart' as the top 50% or top 20%. This doesn't really say anything about 'absolute smartness', and your population could still be expected to do X. - Eivind

Definitely agree, the definition of 'smart' is entirely subjective (or multi-faceted, or more likely both). I do think, though, that keeping this information in mind is helpful when discussing what a group should/shouldn't do. For instance: during the election it was common for people to say the public "should" read up on all the facts and make an informed decision. Whether they should... more... - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

I really couldn't say. But I think that should be the aim when presenting the information. - Eivind

Anthony Citrano

Barry the giant sea worm discovered by aquarium staff after mysterious attacks on coral reef | Mail Online - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...

April 11 - Comment - Like - Share

Hassan Ibraheem, Russell Holliman, Allen Harkleroad and 19 other people liked this

[h/t Andrew: http://friendfeed.com/aburd] - Anthony Citrano

10 more comments

Tastes like chicken! - Anthony Citrano

Little salty... - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

Want! - Steve C

NOM! - AJ Batac

Today's catch of the day/sashimi special! - imabonehead

distusting. - Alp

Strange creature. - Richard A.

smells good :) - efecan

We could use Barry for bait and catch a lot of fish - Mike Fruchter

Give it time , The SciFi channel will be making a movie about the worm in a upcoming Saturday night movie. - Moved to Facebook

Slimy looking things creep me out. EWWWWW! - Sally Robinson

Appetite: Vezquex: God of FF

xPUD: small and fast Linux. 10s boot, 48mb - http://www.xpud.org/#

April 7 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

HealingBrush, Edmund Tay, Nasser Hasani and 14 other people liked this

"xPUD is an unique Linux consists mainly of a web browser and a media player, with a simple user interface on top of it. It can turn your computer into a kiosk-like station by leverage some web technologies, that makes surfing and watching movies easy as a pie." - Vezquex: God of FF from Bookmarklet

Appetite: Filip Visnjic

Boks [Air]: Visual Grid Editor - Blueprint CSS | CreativeApplications.Net - http://www.creativeapplications.net/2009...

April 7 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

HealingBrush, Matt Harwood, Stylish Eve and 13 other people liked this

Boks is an AIR application (Windows, Mac and Linux) that provides a User Interface for Blueprint CSS’s framework. It’s been designed for those who think the Grid System is good but never really took the time to give it love. - Filip Visnjic from Bookmarklet

This is exactly something I was looking for a few months ago. Superb! - Kevin Elliott

Appetite: Kamath (नमः)

Lifehacker - Portable Ubuntu Runs Ubuntu Inside Windows - Portable Ubuntu - http://lifehacker.com/5195999...

April 5 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

HealingBrush, Cee Bee, Numan Arda Çebi and 24 other people liked this

"Windows only: Free application Portable Ubuntu for Windows runs an entire Linux operating system as a Windows application. As if that weren't cool enough, it's portable, so you can carry it on your thumb drive." - Kamath (नमः) from Bookmarklet

Interesting idea, has anyone tried it yet? - Ray Metzen

I've used Knoppix for years, but haven't tried this. Worth a shot! - jojo, adventurer

Sprague D

Online Age Quiz Is a Window for Drug Makers - NYTimes.com - http://www.nytimes.com/2009...

March 25 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

edythe and Brad Nickel liked this

"Pharmaceutical companies pay RealAge to compile test results of RealAge members and send them marketing messages by e-mail. The drug companies can even use RealAge answers to find people who show symptoms of a disease — and begin sending them messages about it even before the people have received a diagnosis from their doctors." - Sprague D from Bookmarklet

Amazing. - Brad Nickel

oh, no. - edythe

Anna Haro

industrial_romance - http://www.flickr.com/photos...

March 29 - Comment - Like - Share

HealingBrush, ElijahBailey-Zu of FF <0,, Håkan Dahlström and 30 other people liked this

تغزل صنعتی - Zahra R

US Politics: Steven Perez

Fox's Glenn Beck says Obama is building concentration camps for Republicans - Boing Boing - http://www.boingboing.net/2009...

March 19 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Glenn Batuyong, Chieze Okoye, Michael Forian and 3 other people liked this

"In a recent spot on FOX and friends, Beck claimed that he had conducted "research on" the so-called concentration camps being built by the Obama White House as part of a conspiracy to establish totalitarian rule in America and the he could not "debunk them." According to Beck, "If you have any fear that we might be heading toward a totalitarian state, look out. There is something happening in our country and it ain't good."" - Steven Perez from Bookmarklet

9 more comments

Suffering from ADD is not a crime. - Todd Hoff

Beck is a lunatic. - Joe Silence is not dead

A lunatic with a TV megaphone, first on CNN and now FN. - Andrew C

There's a snarky comment about the irony of Republicans living off the government somewhere in that whole pile of bullcrap, but I'm too tired to tease it out. - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

apparently Beck will do just about anything to produce ratings, copy-space, and troll-some headlines. - MikeAmundsen

The really unethical part about the claim is this: he provides no evidence FOR this crackpot idea; he just says he can't summon up any evidence AGAINST it. In a rational world, this kind of stuff is FALSE, until proven TRUE. But rationality doesn't live on Fox "News", does it? - Stan Scott

Finally - a use for all those dusty square red states! - Bill Sodeman

OH! But I like Glenn Beck (I'm signed up to his newsletter)! He isn't all that bad, he even had Penn Jillette on his show! To be honest, he's like a watered down Alex Jones. - Michael Forian

Even if you're amused by Glenn Beck, remember that there are a good number of people out there who take him VERY seriously. It's a lot like laughing at an anti-gay joke; it just fuels the fire... - Stan Scott

Peter: I know, because I remember where I've heard this story before: http://boingboing.hexten.net/2005... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... That's what so funny about this. Beck took something that happened during the Katrina debacle and turned it into a paranoid conspiracy. Oh, and you can actually visit a few of these facilities now - if you work for ICE or are an illegal alien being detained. Everyone else is SOL. - Steven Perez from IM

The Apple Room: Neil Bernhart

Online Back Ups: Which service do you use, and how do you like it?

March 18 - Comment - Like - Share

Brad Nickel, Andre and Roberto Bonini liked this

Amazon S3 with JungleDisk - Micah Wittman

5 more comments

I use Amazon S3 with JungleDisk too - Timothy Griffin

Amazon S3 via Dropbox. I also use MobileMe. - Bill Sodeman

s3 and duplicity for my actual system backup — I *love it*. Then dropbox and mobileme for small stuff (documents, mostly) - Andre

Oops, forgot about MobileMe. - Timothy Griffin

Drop box, but want to create a corporate version. Would sell like mad... - Brad Nickel

here's a backup guide we did... talks about some online options: http://www.macgasm.net/2009... - Joshua Schnell

Mona Nomura

Myspace angle + Obligatory Photo of Body Parts. Myspace is for winners!

March 16 - Comment - Like - Share

HealingBrush, Mitchell Tsai, ld and 104 other people liked this

I can't believe I actually used those pictures as defaults. Not my finest moments in life LOL - Mona Nomura

62 more comments

Oh , transcript to Vahid Online - رونوشت به وحید آنلاین :)) - Mil∂d

I know this is a joke and a meme and all... but hummanah hummanah! - Andrew

ZOMG legs! - Sparky, a big deal

وحید بیا ببینم هنوز مایندت اپن هست یانه ، به به عجب سلیقه ای هم داری آفرین وحید (اسمایلی تعریف الکی و مرامی - Farzad

I get a friend request a day on Friendster... All pretty obvious fakes, too. But (is this a compliment?) if I didn't know you and these were the photos in the friend request, I'd think you were a fake too. - Andrew C

woah - Jesse Stay

O_O - TheBuzzMachine

Ya - like I keep saying, not my finest moments in life! - Mona Nomura

Only appropriate geek reply: I'll be in my bunk - Bastard Operator From FF

HEAT! - Carlos Ayala

++ Sean - Glenn Slaven

NSFW! This is a meme? I may need to switch to fftogo with images turned off for a while. - Bruce Lewis

OMG HIDE! ;) - Mo Kargas

Actually, my friends are picking on me in the picture comments. Very left: what's up with the bump in crotch? Middle: You look like a catfish - Mona Nomura from IM

...this is why I love the internets! :P - JA Castillo

HAWT. The only person who gets pictures like that of me is Sean, LOL. >.> Wait... *looks at own feed*. Never mind. ^.^ - PENGUIN: MAJOR CAPS LOCK

SEEEEEXXXXXYYYYY!!! - Michael Forian

Mona, your friends pick on you because they think there's no way you could possibly be insecure, given how good you look. - Bruce Lewis from fftogo

O_O - Rahsheen ™, Coach of FF

Agreed with Bruce, it's good ole fashioned jealousy - Mo Kargas

Myspace is for whiners? I couldn't agree more, Mona! :D MMMMmmmmmmm, legs ... - Steven Perez

WOWzers! I'm switching teams!!! - sofarsoShawn

Love the hair color. Did you just color it? - Shevonne

'vonne - nu uh, this was when my hair was still light. I also had the typical Asian blonde high lights -gag-. Aw Shawn, did you actually say something... nice? HA! ;) - Mona Nomura from IM

This keeps popping up to the top of my friendfeed - I'm so going to get in trouble with my wife over this ;-) - Jesse Stay

HIDE button - it's your best friend, Jesse! ;) - Mona Nomura from IM

Theres only one person who would Dare give the Internet the raspberry. *drops giant helmet over face* Mona! - Joe Pierce

I haven't seen this pop up again in the last minute. *bump for more Mona leg on everyone's feeds* :-P - Carmen

Joe - what does that mean? The raspberry? Carmen - I hid my own post, this is embarrassing. -hangs head in shame- - Mona Nomura from IM

An inspiration to us all! - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

Actually I think you win Mona!! :) - Penny

Where's the bacon? - Eric @ CS Techcast

What... no FMP shot? - Yolanda

FMP? Penny - we're providing the best of all worlds - boobies and legs ;) - Mona Nomura from IM

Mona, it was a reference to you sticking your tongue out, it was also a paraphrased quote from Spaceballs. I say geeky things sometimes. Also, you don't have anything to hang your head in shame over! - Joe Pierce

I MISSED A SPACEBALLS REFERENCE? THAT is what I should be ashamed of!! - Mona Nomura from IM

:D~~ - Jess Lee

Nice legs, Mona. - Josh Haley

A certain ZZ-Top song has just come to mind... - Walt Ruppar

@Walt Cheap Sunglasses? - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

lol MVB - Josh Haley

Man, FriendFeed is becoming myspace. LET'S MAKE COMMENTS ABOUT ALL THE GIRLS WHOO! - Mike Nayyar

LOL Mike! :D - vijay

OMG *faints* - Alfredo

how did i miss this? Mona you are looking mighty fine. - Alfredo

LOL - Praveen Vasudev

oh oh my turn my turn. :) - Alfredo

mona is to my productivity what bacon is to my productivity - Marko Bon

<3 - Kristian Salonen

@Marko a massive time suck or a delicious beginning to your day? - Mike Nayyar

Hot. - Nia

how come the pic with you rasberry(ing?) is smaller than the other two? - Alfredo

@Mike, does it really take you THAT long to eat bacon? ;) - Josh Haley

@Mike is there a difference? The more times I re-read your question the dizzier I get ;) - Marko Bon

nice legs. 8^D - Chieze Okoye

The attention this is getting is starting to make me think pervy thoughts, keep it up. - sofarsoShawn

Ummmm... huh huh. - Internet's Tad

RAWR - Haggis (Sean Loyless)

...wow - mjc

I.... spy..... a butt cheek. - Paul Reynolds

Mona, was off FF for a while. Screw work - your legs just brought me back. - Kamath (नमः)

hottt - Onur Gündüz

makes me want to post pics of my legs. - Vincent Pham

Mona Nomura

Flipping through "The Very Hungry Caterpillar" by Eric Carle, one of my fav. children's book authors. What's your favorite children's book?

March 16 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Christopher Harley, Mo Kargas, Alfredo and 40 other people liked this

Go Dog Go. - Thomas Hawk

69 more comments

The Berenstein Bear series is good. My little ones love those books. - Hutch Carpenter

This one's easy, The Cat in The Hat. - Ha3rvey (not Akiva)

The Digging-est Dog was my favorite. I think my son's is probably It's Not Easy Being A Bunny. - Joey Gibson

Corduroy is the first that comes to mind but there are ohso many - Tamara

Cat In The Hat - Johnny Worthington

Phantom Tollbooth, Wrinkle in Time, Egypt Game - Richard ¿digame? Walker

Of Time, Space, & Other Things - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

Cows Can't Fly - Mark Dykeman

Are you my Mommy? - Glen Campbell, B.A.

Who's yo daddy! - surprised the only 'staple' is "Cat in the Hat" - Mona Nomura

My current favorite is Fox in Socks - Kevin L

I've always liked you Mona - now we're clearly friends for life. LOVE Very Hungry Caterpillar. A great Australian kids' book is Possum Magic. Highly recommended. - Kate Foy

Asterix and Tintin - Sally Church

OMG Eric Carle has a book titled: "Pancakes Pancakes"!! I LOVE the man's books. And Kate? Any Eric Carle fan is a friend for life of mine, too! :) - Mona Nomura

I totally forgot "Where the Wild Things Are" - Ha3rvey (not Akiva)

Harry Potter Books 1-7 - sofarsoShawn

Harry, the Dirty Dog - Alan Simpson

Love the classics, but today, I'm liking Mo Williems a lot. - stretta from twhirl

OMG I LOVED Harry the Dirty Dog!!! - Mona Nomura

Anything by Dr. Seuss or Richard Scarry. - Laura B.

Definitely Go Dog Go. Thomas knows what's up. - Akiva Moskovitz

"Sometimes I like to Curl Up in a Ball" - Erin @queenofspain

Shut up, Erin. Are you serious? *edit: holy cow, that is a real book!! - Mona Nomura

A good children's book can be read many ways, and has little details that are revealed over repeated readings. Isn't it fun to figure out where the mouse is in each color panel of Goodnight Moon, and see how that book and Runaway Bunny tie in to each other? - stretta from twhirl

Harold and the Purple Crayon! - Jennifer Dittrich

I actually learned a lot about body parts and basic science through books. ie: scabs, nostrils, blood, etc. (Japanese children books LOL) I wonder if there are English translations http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp... - Mona Nomura

Fox in Socks. But Camilla's first exposure to reading was Eric Carle's "Brown Bear, Brown Bear" - April Buchheit

The Poky Little Puppy - Louis Gray

Mike Mulligan and the Steam Shovel - Louis Gray

++stretta. Mo Willems is awesome, especially for beginning readers. - Private Sanjeev

when I was young, Where the Wild Things Are - now, The True Story of the Three Little Pigs, http://tiny.pl/bpsx - William Harryman

The Cat In The Hat - Jeremy Brooks

Principia Mathematica - no shit! - Russell Wagner

OMG, so many! I read a lot of stuff. But little kid stuff? Probably Dr. Seuss...esp "Are You My Mother?" - the best line: "You are not my mother, you are a SNORT!" That killed me when I was 5. - Sarah Perez

'Possum Magic' by Mem Fox. She read it to our class in school, and that's one of my fondest childhood memories. Just the way she read it... - Bec Rowe @d0tski

Possum Magic is great (we have signed copies of Mem's books, she lives in my town) ,, Hungry Caterpillar is and always has been a favourite, and now I love to read The Gruffalo and The Gruffalo's Child to my kids :D Another great Mem book is Ella Kazoo Will Not Brush Her Hair - Penny

My daughter loves Go Dog Go, so I rate that one too. Green Eggs & Ham is another fave. Also love Goodnight Moon for toddlers ... - Patrick Jordan

Cat In The Hat, as well. - David Cook

Goodnight Moon by Margaret Wise Brown - Michael Forian

Go Dog Go for me too. My dad and I still ask "do you like my hat?" - Chris Rivait

Alexander and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day - Sally Robinson

Where the Wild Things Are - Jim Hearts FF

Like that Mike Mulligan & The Steam Shovel one too - and Runaway Bunny, and The Little Red Hen (which there is a superb iPhone eBook of) ... - Patrick Jordan

"Guess How Much I Love You" (the one with the nut-brown hares) - Vicky

The Gruffalo for my kids. For myself, something called "The little book of monsters", which I've not managed to lay hands on as an adult - Mark Aitken

Good topic Mona - and also like The Very Hungry Caterpillar ... - Patrick Jordan

There are so many titles I don't recognise here! Bet there's a top 100 books list on t'nternet somewhere... - Mark Aitken

Ooh, also, 'Hairy Maclary' :) - Bec Rowe @d0tski

Olivia Helps With Christmas - DGentry

Yay for Hairy Maclairy and Zachary Quack! - Vicky

Stephen King's THE STAND. - Steven Perez

I threw The Shining off our 11th floor balcony when I was 14 or something - because it still scared the shite out of me just walking past it on the shelves after reading it ... - Patrick Jordan

Depends on the age, but "Guess How Much I Love You" is one of my favourites... - Steve Lacey

Harry and the Dinosaurs also rocks. - Steve Lacey

@Patrick - I buried my copy in the bookshelves and slept with all the lights on for a month after reading The Shining. I refuse to watch the movie, in any version, but most especially Kubrik's version with Jack Nicholson. Typecasting? - Sally Robinson

Oh, the Places You'll Go!, Green Eggs & Ham, Cat in the Hat, Harriet the Spy - Egyirba

Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs. :D - tinypants - Hagitha of FF

Scarlet Monster Lives Here. - Yolanda

Chris Van Allsburg - Shevonne

I read Carle to my daughter quite a lot when she was younger. I like Mo Willems (spelling?). And there is a guy that does Russell the Sheep that has art that is so slick. Past that, of course Dr. Seuss! Gosh, with all of these likes, am I a kid trapped in an adult's body? - Ken Stewart | ChangeForge

The Surprise Doll and Mike Mulligan and his Steam Shovel and a book about Baby Animals - adf

We read The Lorax a lot, it's a fun read with lots of silly words - Brian Hendrickson

My 2 year old son loves Freight Train and his "bright baby" Truck book - they're nightly staples. - adf

Alexander and his terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I could read that for smiles at any time. Even now! hah - Sonya Smith

Liked, because I'm sure this thread will come handy one day. - Aviv

LOVED "The Phantom Tollbooth" when I was a kid. As far as really little kid books go... I love to read "Goodnight Moon" to my son before bed. He is 10-months-old and really likes it! I am sure we will have many more favorite books as he grows up! Looks like I have a lot of good suggestions here! :) - Meredith

there was this one book about a chameleon that I loved. can't remember the name of it now. - chrisofspades

Cars and Trucks and Things that Go. With the little goldbug you had to find. - Steve C

Great book and I love Eric Carle. I love the "True Story of the Three Little Pigs". - John Flynn

THE GIVING TREE - stretta from twhirl

FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

Alright, so how's this for WTF interesting: I got a CC offer from AmEx in the mail today. It says that since I'd been a customer before, they want to give me the opportunity to rejoin their ranks. This is in addition to a call I've received from them over the weekend.

March 16 - Comment - Like - Share

Nicholas James, Tyson Key, WorldofHiglet and 6 other people liked this

Why is this interesting? One, AmEx was in the news today saying they showed way high defaults in February (and, as an aside, I'm pretty sure I called the post-Christmas CC defaults a while ago). Two? I don't have a good history with AmEx, they're one of the cards that I fouled up when I was in college and had to go back and take care of several years later. So, basically they're approaching someone they know has had a bad history with them. My interpretation? CC companies may be seeing a crapload of defaults, but the response will be to tighten the belts on credit to most while offering smaller, high interest lines of credit to those that might not be as credit worthy. More money to be made on interest and/or late fees, and having 5% of your customers default hurts less when their credit lines are less than 2k or so... - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

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Tina two things: 1. did they offer you a credit card or a charge card? They are working their way out of the credit card biz. 2. I'll be stunned if they actually issue you a card if you screwed them in the past (without you paying the old balance); AmEx has a very long memory. [edit: I see you said you paid the old balance, so ne'mind #2.] - Anthony Citrano

Yes, an actual credit card (the verbiage in the offer specifically touts the flexibility to pay it off each month or over time). I have no desire for the card, but I'm tempted to apply just to see if they go though with it. - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

I think if you've paid the old defaulted balance, and you have a FICO of ~700+, you'll get the card. - Anthony Citrano

Bah. It will never change :( - WorldofHiglet

Caroline

GEEKYGOD! on vi.sualize.us - http://vi.sualize.us/view...

March 16 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Darren Heydon and Brad Nickel liked this

PACMAN Sticker on his MBP! - Caroline

1UP - Caroline

FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

To those that have requested I install a back yard cam: no dice my friends. That would mean I would have to wear normal looking clothes when I work in the yard, and that's just not gonna happen. Plus, I'd have too much cleaning up to do to even make it presentable for viewing =P

March 16 - Comment - Like - Share

Brad Nickel, Shane Wolsey, Bindu Reddy and 7 other people liked this

Like a security cam? - sofarsoShawn

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No, Matthew said I should put one up so everyone could watch the transformation (we're doing a veritable overhaul of our lot this year). It wouldn't do me much good from security standpoint either, as I'm pretty much hoping someone comes in the back yard and burns my shed down (we fondly call it the crack shack) - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

It would a cam for the yard, not some kind of crazy Tina Voyeur Cam. Set it up with a reverse motion sensor. When you walk out there, it turns off and just broadcasts the last shot it took before the motion. - Matthew DeVries

Interesting... I do have a fair amount of wildlife back there for an urban yard: fat squirrels, tons of birds, the occasional hawk looking for a snack. It could be like the roaring fire broadcast, only different ;-) - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

But to increase web traffic, you should so post it on www.tinaswelltrimmedbush.com - Matthew DeVries

HAAaaaaaaahahahahhahahaaaa!!! Matthew now owes me a keyboard! - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

I haven't checked godaddy yet to see if that is available for you. - Matthew DeVries

Hahahaha! Hard to resist..... - WorldofHiglet

Matthew, I don't think I wanna know... - FFing Enigma (aka Tina)

Appetite: Parham

Google Voice - https://www.google.com/account...

March 15 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

HealingBrush, Jeroen, Colby Olson and 34 other people liked this

Frustrated Canadian wants it now. Must wait weeks. Can't wait. - timedalkat from twhirl

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even more frustrated European wonders when it will ever come over here. Google always keeps the good stuff in the US. - Mark O'Neill from StumbleRead

please god tell me they wont change my grand central number - adolfo foronda

Looking forward to playing around with the new branded service. Never got around to looking at this while it was Grand Central. - Mark Aitken

How does this compare with tagline? - Bryan R. Adams

The "invite to upgrade" appears in the Grand Central inbox (not the gmail inbox) FYI\ - Richard ¿digame? Walker

Loving the integration with Gmail contacts. One of the few Google acquisitions where the end result is a better product. - Daniel Sims

What timedalkat said. - Micah Wittman

I want an 808 (Hawaii) number - Grand Central never had 'em. - Bill Sodeman

Daniel: Absolutely. They did a fantastic job with this one. Google Voice is awesome. - Aaron Baer

adolfo: it's the same number that gets migrated. - Aaron Baer

london, uk - frustrated too - Franz Sittampalam

Jeff (the メガマクダジ of FF)

Obama's new strategy: Blaming Bush for 'mess' - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id...

March 15 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Thomas Power, Kol Tregaskes, Chieze Okoye and 11 other people liked this

"Over the past month, Obama has reminded the public at every turn that he is facing problems "inherited" from the Bush administration, using increasingly bracing language to describe the challenges his administration is up against. The "deepening economic crisis" that the president described six days after taking office became "a big mess" in remarks this month to graduating police cadets in Columbus, Ohio. "By any measure," he said during a March 4 event calling for government-contracting reform, "my administration has inherited a fiscal disaster."" - Jeff (the メガマクダジ of FF) from Bookmarklet

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If not Bush and his failed economic policies, who should he blame? - Jeff P. Henderson

Can he just start working on fixing the mess rather than pointing the fingers! - Michael Forian

I think one reason for this is that the situation is far worse now than anyone had imagined, even a few months ago. - Jeff P. Henderson

I dunno, Jeff. Seems to me the whole mess started with the deregulation in the mid 90's. Republican Congress certainly more to blame than anyone. - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

If he would just listen to Dr. Ron Paul for a minute, I bet he'd be better off than he is now! - Michael Forian

As long as they are doing everything in their power to correct the problems, blame should be cast. It's important to understand who caused it and how so we can enact legislation to keep it from happening again. - ·[▪_▪]·

@MVB I totally agree. But Bush and company did nothing in their 8 years of control to reverse the deregulation, even thought there were signs that it was not working out well. - Jeff P. Henderson

Jeff, nor did Pelosi and company. - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

+1 MVB - there is plenty of congressional blame to go around here.... - Jeff (the メガマクダジ of FF)

this is new? - Richard Lawler

I recall after 9/11 President Bush never once blamed the former administration, and this "crisis" is nothing compared to that. - Craig Eddy

Ultimately, Jeff, it is you and I who are to blame; we keep electing these people. - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

Jilly, I believe, as Senator, he was 'Present' alot. - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

I believe the guy in the oval office is accountable. PERIOD. He knew what a bag of ass he was being handed. The time to blame is 2 years from now at the midterm elections. NOW just fix it. - Moved to Facebook

I think we should tax the tax on all the taxes.....and then tax that too... that way we can raise more money cover that 1.7 trillion $$ deficit - Jeff (the メガマクダジ of FF)

I do tend to agree with that to a point, Earl. Truman and "The Buck Stops Here" and all. But we also have to learn from our history so as not to repeat the same mistakes. That requires discovering all the responsible parties as well. We have yet to do that. - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

@mvb Oh I agree totally, But He needs to spend his more of his time fixing problems and less making sure everybody knows he wasnt president until Jan 20th 2009. I think we know that. - Moved to Facebook

100% - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

I disagree, Earl. When the Republican party is going to try to paint Obama as the source of our economic problems for the 2010 election Obama needs to constantly remind people who actually got us in to this mess. - Alex Scoble

Well Alex, If he turns this mess around , IT wont matter what my former party says about anything . - Moved to Facebook

True enough, Earl. - Alex Scoble

Wow.. where were all you defenders of past presidents when the Bushies were blaming 9/11 on Clinton? And for those who say the Obama should "spend more time fixing the economy than laying blame" he has done virtually nothing BUT work on the economy. Speaking a plain truth, that the economy was terrible and getting worse when he took office, takes no time away from his work. They are just lines in speeches which explain the ways he it trying to turn us around. - Jeff Jones

Jeff, friendfeed didn't exist back then. But if it had, I would have called bullshit on all the GWites who blamed 911 on Clinton. - Alex Scoble

Chris, health care is an intricate part of the economy as it runs around 16% of our domestic spending. So, if almost one out of every five dollars is spent on health care in this country then getting a grip on the vast problems of that industry and what it costs US families is an absolute necessity in turning around the economy. And, since green jobs are a cornerstone of the Obama jobs program then green energy is also a necessity. Everything is connected economically and we've ignored that too long. - Jeff Jones

This "crisis" is nothing more than a low in a cyclical economy. A deep low, perhaps, but still a part of the cycle. - Craig Eddy

@Chris: They definitely understand economics. They're just looking out for themselves and their buddies, not for you and I (and that goes for both parties). - Craig Eddy

Yeah, the push to green energy is very important to our long term economic stability. The spike in oil prices was one of the causes to the economic mess. We need to have stable and affordable energy pricing to have a healthy economy. - Alex Scoble

Wow I feel stupid, now. I have completely missed Obama's plan to lower health costs. The only reports I can find are either making a new bureaucracy that will add expense or the latest idea of taxing premiums. - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

Chris, I'm a Democrat. As long as the Democrats stand for most of the issues that I believe in, I'll be a Democrat. There's just no point in being an independent. There's almost zero chance that an independent will become president. - Alex Scoble

incoming prez blames outgoing prez of the other party? really? wow! what a novel idea! "Nixon blamed the country's economic and other problems on Democratic President Truman's administration..." [http://www-cgi.cnn.com/ALLPOLI...]. oh maybe someone did that already? - MikeAmundsen

Chris, so we are only talking about the Stimulus Plan? Where was that rule stated? The stimulus plan is only one piece of the overall strategy to turn the economy around. And. like Alex, I am a Democrat because they most closely align with my political beliefs. I am neither a blind supporter of everything any Dem proposes nor am I automatically dismissive of anything a Republican supports. However, we've tried it their way for the last eight years and it got us... well... this. - Jeff Jones

I reserve the right to vote for anyone, Chris, but I can't see voting for a Republican anytime soon. Fortunately for me, my worldview fits very well with the Democratic party. I wouldn't want to live with the schizophrenia of liking half the ideas of one party and half the ideas of the other. - Alex Scoble

Wow... I'm a Democrat and yet I too can vote for any person I choose. How does being an Independent give you more freedom in the polling booth than me? - Jeff Jones

Chris, everything is politics. You might as well be tired of breathing. - Alex Scoble

Yeah, I'm gonna go with Chris on this one. Party affiliation used to be important but in the last 25 years have really been two sides of the same coin. I'll evaluate decision by decision and person by person. And I see much irony in saying that Obama is handicapped by the Congress he must work with but it's all Bush's fault when he had a Democratic Congress... But then I'm borderline retarded... - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

Name me something that deals with people, Chris, that isn't politics. Relationships? Politics. Buying a house? Politics. Working in an office? Politics. - Alex Scoble

too much politics, not enough leadership. and we vote these folks in (or out). gotta remember: "The fault... is not in our stars..." - MikeAmundsen

Mark, don't be disingenuous. Bush only had a Democratic congress for 2 of his 6 years. - Alex Scoble

@Alex: A daughter's love. - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

Okay, so if a truck runs into a tank because nobody plowed the road and gas starts spilling on the road and if you go up and throw a match on it, somehow it doesn't seem credible to me to blame the truck driver alone. - Dawn

If nobody plowed the road because of the President's policies, Dawn, you'd blame the President. - Alex Scoble

Psst, Alex... I think Bush is the truck driver in the example... - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

No, Bush is the guy who caused the plows not to work, Mark. Bush never worked an honest day in his life. - Alex Scoble

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that GW didn't do any math in his lifetime either. - Alex Scoble

Alex, I don't think you want to be comparing backgrounds. We've got an associate professor for President. If you find that so impressive, then I've got used car I'd like to sell you. - Dawn

I'll gladly compare Obama's particulars to those of GW any day of the week, Dawn and you know it. - Alex Scoble

Not rationally. And, yeah, I know that well. :) - Dawn

If you are calling me irrational, no you don't know me very well at all. Which is a bit of a disappointment. - Alex Scoble

Apparently the White House now agrees with me: the economy is fundamentally sound (http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive...) - Craig Eddy

Oh, come on, Alex, I'm just ribbing you because you do get very emotional, as do most of us. Maybe you noticed the smiley face? Perhaps I should have made it a winking face. - Dawn

ZOMG Dawn is laughing at Alex's expense!!!11!!! - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

Bah...Stabbity! - Alex Scoble

We all need to get together and be strong.. Unionize citizens! And then we go talk to the gov. Call it a... er.... Declaration of indepe.....oh wait, somebody already tried that??:) - Jeff (the メガマクダジ of FF)

I'm really at a loss for words. Bush said that all his problems were Clinton's fault, even the ones that started in his second term. But from the outside looking in, I'd hate to be the president to clean up after W. - Anika

All of this finger-pointing forgets that the President has a lot less control over the economy than we think - or pretend - that he does. It's really us. Then again, that's true about most of our problems. If you want someone to point the finger at, find a mirror. - Anthony Citrano

well put, Anthony. - Chieze Okoye

He's right with that. Bush and his nazi government put the USA on its knees. Now Obama need to get rid of the crap. It's okay if he say so, too. 8 years of Bush can't be repaired in a few month by Obama. He might be the best president ever, but he is not a magician. It will take much longer than 8 years to reverse the Bush catastrophe. - Ryo / Fuck Facebook

Too many expectations on one man. He's not the messiah. Obama's facing some titanic tasks. He's been committed to clean up all the huge pile of s**t his predecessors left behind and on top of that he has to please everyone, voters, monopolies...and some undercover powers that have always exerted pressure upon the US administration. That is like putting some grenade in your hands and running away. After coping with this he has little margin to deal with his campaign promises and still he can. - Carlos Lorenzo

I hear ya Carlos, But I am not paying him to try. I am paying him to DO - Moved to Facebook

Oh brother. - Craig Eddy

Rochelle

Just did a video call with my parents. Can't wait until Audrey understands it's them on the computer screen!

March 15 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

tinypants - Hagitha of FF, Brad Nickel, RAPatton and Laura B. liked this

My son loves vid calls w/pop pop and grandma at 2.5 years, - Brad Nickel