Björn Brembs › Likes

Sarah G.
RT @mrgunn: "The library exists to serve the research needs of scholars, not to house collections or keep publishers in business." #2013ssp
Christina Pikas
D'oh. Got so caught up in playing with text mining in r that I forgot the original question
Heather Piwowar
Today is my last day as a postdoc! The 3 years zoomed past: great great run. Next up: full time direct employee of @ImpactStory :)
I want to write a blog post all about it. Alas swamped on time and emotion dimensions at the moment (family estate stuff, grant applications, new code release...). Struggle just to tread water just now. so we'll see. - Heather Piwowar
so access to the literature will be come an even bigger thing :( ? - Christina Pikas
I'm really lucky: I'm going to be able to keep affiliations to UNC ("affiliate") and UBC ("honourary research associate"), so I can still access subscriptions and have a local community. I fear my own ramp in OA ranting the day that I don't have uni affiliations, I will admit! :) - Heather Piwowar
Happy last day! - Hedgehog
Sarah G.
RT @mjsuhonos: Preservation may not be sexy, but access is. Use the latter to drive the former. #oculdc
Cameron Neylon
The bravery of librarians -
Two things caught my attentions over the past few days. The first was the text of a Graduation Address from Dorothea Salo to the graduating students of the Library and Information Sciences Program at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. The second was a keynote from Chris Bourg, whose blog is entitled “Feral Librarian”, gave at The Acquisitions Institute. Both focus on how the value of libraries and the value of those who defend the needs of all to access information are impossible to completely measure. Both offer a prescription of action and ... - Cameron Neylon
My small effort at pissing people off for the day: - John Dupuis
404 error for Dorothea's link - maʀtha
I know but that's a problem at her end I'm afraid. Looks like is also down... - Cameron Neylon
@John That list is...ummm....extensive... - Cameron Neylon
Tell me about it. When I started compiling it a week or so ago I figured I'd end up with 10 or 20 items max. But the number of small programs and departments that have been cut really surprised me. - John Dupuis
Up around 2000 page views for the post. - John Dupuis
Holly's favorite Anna
RT @laura_hudson: I love this story about a woman gender-flipping a cheesecake poster at her gaming job (and her boss's response!):
RT @laura_hudson: I love this story about a woman gender-flipping a cheesecake poster at her gaming job (and her boss's response!):
The other poster is worth the click! :) - That's So CAJ!
Awesomes - Eric Sizemore
I liked the whole story... - walt crawford
that is f'ing awesome - Sir Shuping is just sir
"Ruby Underboob and Brosie the Riveter, together at last" - Steve C, Team Marina
Heather Piwowar
new @researchremix post: My champions of Open Science
and thanx! - Egon Willighagen
Heather Piwowar
Just went back to find my 1st blog post. Y'know who welcomed me from day 1? @sennoma @LibSkrat + @petermurrayrust :)
...and Paul Miller! - Cameron Neylon
what you have done with that blog in six years is nothing short of astounding. - RepoRat
Bookmarking this for lonely days. Astounding, she said. Astounding! Onward. - Heather Piwowar from iPhone
Oi. You kick azz. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise. - RepoRat
Yup, i do :) but i get lonely. Anyway.... Just so cool you guys were there from day one. I'm forever grateful to Bill Hooker for finding my blog, flagging it to oanews, and issuing strong welcome :) - Heather Piwowar from iPhone
Six years already? Excellent :) - Hedgehog
walt crawford
It Didn’t Work for Phil Ochs, It Doesn’t Work for Jeffrey Beall -
Does someone have a copy of the 2013 "Predatory OA" paper of Beall? Sounds like a fun read. - Egon Willighagen
Walt, yes. If you unglue it, I'll contribute and encourage others to also, for sure. Be sure to set a minimum level that makes you happy, though. - Heather Piwowar
Egon: Since the serials crisis is over and everybody has access to all the subscription serials they could possibly read, you must--MUST--be able to read Beall's article. Of course, I can't (not without paying $23.68, an oddly specific sum), but that's because I'm one of those nonexistent unaffiliated folks who don't matter. - walt crawford
Heather: I will do that. So far, I've received 0 email and 0 comments on the post itself, but it's early yet. - walt crawford
I'm just puzzled. He's a librarian right? At a university? Who presumably has to argue for a budget? Which he's just lost all leverage over for ever and for all time because "there is no problem"? Am I missing something? - Cameron Neylon
He's at the University of Colorado Denver Auraria Library. If his ScholComm role is similar to the one at my uni, he doesn't actually have any collection development responsibilities or a budget to manage. How the UCD electronic resources and collection development librarians feel about what he's saying would be very interesting to know. - Hedgehog
"Jeffrey is the Scholarly Initiatives Librarian at Auraria Library." I think his background is as a metadata/cataloger. - Joe
yes, he started out as a cataloger. He previously had a holy war against Dublin Core and argued for MARC. - Sarah
Which may make me indirectly partly responsible for him (except that I never argued *against* DC), for which I apologize. Come to think of it: I never argued *for* MARC except to say that if you're going to call it MARC, you should know what you're talking about. - walt crawford
I think I am detecting a tendency towards high profile tilting against windmills as a consequence of "being on t'internets" which seems to lead to highly polarized positions being taken up. Profile building seems to require taking extreme, even archetypal positions.</potCallingKettleBlack> - Cameron Neylon
Cameron, indeed. The more "extreme" your statement, the higher the impact. And because it is hard to find new scientific results that are extreme, people focus on things around science. (or make new science finding sound more extreme than they are... which is *very* common deep inside the publishing world, as we all know) - Egon Willighagen
Executive Order -- Making Open and Machine Readable the New Default for Government Information | The White House -
is it just me or does this deserve a "holy wow" or two? "Newly generated government data will be required to be made available in open, machine-readable format by default" - Marianne from Bookmarklet
Absolutely a holy wow. :) - Hedgehog
Cool video about it Although, they're both listing off to one side - Hedgehog
Such a big wow. - Heather Piwowar from iPhone
Hell fuck yes that's a holy wow. - laura x from BuddyFeed
I'll see that holy wow and raise you a #fuckyeahbuttercup - RepoRat
(would have done so earlier except I just had time to drop my bags in my hotel room before heading out to Zombie Burger, which is a real thing that exists JUST LIKE OPEN GOVERNMENT DATA NOW) - RepoRat
Seb Schmoller
"Elite journals: to hell in a handbasket?" not yet, says @Hadas_Shema commenting on -
"@Hadas_Shema" - Seb Schmoller from Bookmarklet
Random and won't necessarily lead to anything question: IF (and it's a big if) I was taking a self-directed tech learning course, and I had 2 out of 3 components figured, and wanted to pick, as my third, ONE programming or scripting language to attempt to become very basically competent at, which one would you recommend and why?*
*Given that I am likely to become a librarian of some sort in a year or two; given that I am really not intending to become a systems librarian; given that my background is in circulation; given that I think digitization and circulation are allied fields; given my science training; given my not having DONE science in a decade; given my not having programmed anything except one game in the last fifteen years (though I was pretty skilled for a non-programmer before that)...** - Marianne
** feel free to ignore the above comment and just answer based on your own skills/experience/interest - any data is better than no data :) - Marianne
You have several good choices. R is excellent for number-crunching and data visualization of many sorts; it would help you either as a science librarian or in acq/circ if that's where you stay. Python is a general-purpose language often seen in scientific computing; it's also a Swiss army knife that can chop metadata, dice websites, and julienne repetitive tasks. Ruby and PHP are in broad use on the web, as is Javascript (though I don't rec Jscript as your first language because it's kind of grotty). - RepoRat
Heh, RR. I am grinning at you because that was exactly the short list I was hoping people would help me pick from (though I welcome other suggestions too) - do you prefer one of those over the others, or think I would? Steve, thank you. - Marianne
Well, I'm an ancient unreconstructed Pythonista, so I'm a leetle biased. I still like Python, and it's still my get-shit-done tool of choice. If you can *possibly* pull off both Python and R, I think that would be ideal. - RepoRat
R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R or Python - Meg VMeg
<threadjack>I think I may have mentioned on FF somewhere that here at YorkU the required CS course that my son is taking as a physics 1st year teaches Fortran. Yes, Fortran. The good news is that his cohort is actually the last one to learn Fortran. Starting this summer, the course is switching to Matlab, which makes a lot more sense for physics in this day and age, though I'm sure many would also argue for Python. </threadjack> - John Dupuis
Python is relatively close to very structured English, which could be an argument to starting with it. I'm struggling through it right now via a HeadFirst "Learn to Program" book which uses Python and A Byte of Python (free book) - Hedgehog
Python or Javascript - copystar
I learned Python first, and I found that a lot of its nitpickiness helped me with XML especially. - Lily
Answering Ethel's question: Python has a long-standing reputation as a good gateway language because of its relatively uncluttered syntax, clean design, and broad application domain. R is a domain-specific language, which means that moving on from it to other languages will involve a somewhat greater learning curve... but the jobs it DOES do, it will usually do better and/or more simply than Python. (Though I hear NumPy is pretty awesome. I've never worked with it.) - RepoRat
(thank you SO much, everyone. I would like this thread myself if I could.) - Marianne
Oh, and see also :) - RepoRat
you can limp along in R without actually knowing how to program by following recipes from books and by using various gui packages and/or r-studio.... i'm so old i learned pascal in college but that gets me exactly no where. I'd like to learn Python and I'd like to force myself to do more regex searching... but this isn't about me :) - Christina Pikas
Thanks for your comments on this, everyone. I'mma be taking the self-directed tech course (with tech folks for classmates!) in the fall. Very excited about it. - Marianne
tell me more about this course and how it works? - RepoRat
RR, the syllabus from last fall is here: . Obviously it tends to be focused more toward other branches of the iSchool, but our program director made a point of publicizing it to us as an allowable elective. Like most self-directed electives, there's a... more... - Marianne
thanks! - RepoRat
Seb Schmoller
Gripping >> Sweden's most linked to text: Jonas Hassen Khemiri's Open Letter to (Justice Minister) Beatrice Ask. -
Seb Schmoller
#OpenAccess - Breaking the Monopoly of Large Academic Publishers. Ann McKechin MP (member of the HoC BIS Committee) reports. -
John Dupuis
For those that are interested, my interview with campus radio about Open Access is here:
It's longish at 20+ minutes. Apparently they got good feedback on the interview, so that's nice. - John Dupuis
Thanks. Maggie was fun to work with. She interviewed me a few months ago about Aaron Swartz and as she mentions this was kind of a sequel to that. - John Dupuis
Stephen Francoeur
danah boyd, "why I’m quitting Mendeley (and why my employer has nothing to do with it)," apophenia -
Pull quote: “I cannot say the same thing for Elsevier. As most academics and many knowledge activists know, Elsevier has engaged in some pretty evil maneuvers. Elsevier published fake journals until it got caught. Its parent company was involved in the arms trade until it got caught. Elsevier played an unrepentant and significant role in advancing SOPA/PIPA/RWA and continues to lobby on issues that undermine scholarship. Elsevier currently actively screws over academic libraries and scholars through its bundling practices. There is no sign that the future of Elsevier is pro-researchers. There is zero indicator that Mendeley’s acquisition is anything other an attempt to placate the academics who are refusing to do free labor for Elsevier (editorial boards, reviewers, academics). There’s no attempt at penance, no apology, not even a promise of a future direction. Just an acquisition of a beloved company as though that makes up for all of the ways in which Elsevier has in the past _and continues to_ screw over scholars.” - Stephen Francoeur
And Elsevier apologists pile into the comments. - DJF
I loved her response to the first one, which boiled down to "no, REALLY, fuck Elsevier sideways." - RepoRat
omg... so, to summarize, microsoft is less evil than elsevier so it's ok that i work here. (i made sure to avoid all capital letters in this sentence) - Blake
Microsoft is probably less evil than it once was, but I still don't really trust it. As with many large organizations, their research arm probably is really independent, and I have no problem trust MSR more than I do the rest of the organization (cf, Bell Labs vs the rest of Bell/AT&T) - DJF
I don't trust OCLC as far as I could throw it. I trust OCLC Research pretty much implicitly. So yeah. - RepoRat
There's also the fact that, as danah points out, Elsevier is actively trying to restrict, control, and shut down open scholarly communication and research. Microsoft, no matter how evil, doesn't care about that. So it's easy to be 100% "Microsoft evil", and still be opposed to what Elsevier is doing. - DJF
I'm also not super-thrilled at the "discredit danah b/c of her employer" tactic. Smells of ad hominem. Sorry, Mr. Gunn. - RepoRat
yah know... i don't see that as ad hominem. I actually made that point, too. Elsevier has some really talented UX designers and what not on staff and people who aren't individually evil, but that doesn't make the company as a whole any less evil. just because she cares about kids doesn't make microsoft any less evil. (i use microsoft products, too) - Christina Pikas
Agree w RepoRat. Her employer has nothing to do with this. She could work for Springer or T&F and still legitimately think that Mendeley being bought by Elsevier is bad for the industry. - Heather Piwowar
Disagree. Her employer is entirely relevant. Microsoft is another giant gatekeeper IP-troll asshole corporation and anyone who works there can be expected to have been indoctrinated into that mindset, even if only slightly and subconsciously. So, for such a person to see another similar company as despicable says a lot about that second company. - Bill Hooker
Heather Piwowar
Re Mendeley/Elsevier one area I don't see being discussed in twitter stream etc, is that this buys Elsevier proprietary Intelligence. What Mendeley reveals in their Open API is only a tiny amount of their total data. It isn't click stream or highlighting or fine grained demographics etc. This means that Mendeley gives Elsevier a competitive...
advantage on what scholars do and how they do it. People are talking about whether Mendeley will treat all publishers equally like Scopus does... there is a difference. Scopus is built on citations, which anyone could in theory get with enough money. With Mendeley, Elsevier gets workflow information, and no other publishers get that. It is a smart move for them, but a blow to people who think that propping up Elsevier is not best for the industry. - Heather Piwowar
yes. please write that blog post. - RepoRat
Will try but no time today. Someone else free free to beat me to it, no need for attribution. - Heather Piwowar
the way things have worked before, a given aggregator only had access to individual user behavior related to their own publications, and not even always (library proxy servers protect people to some extent). Now Elsevier knows what every Mendeley user is reading and saving; they may even know some of where Mendeley users *get* what they read and save. if that doesn't seem worrisome to people, they weren't paying attention to the Attributor thing. - RepoRat
link to Attributor thing? - Heather Piwowar and I think Elsevier would LOVE to peg Mendeley users who aren't clearly downloading via library or toll-gate access mechanisms. - RepoRat
Even if they are, the shared groups (which I'll admit to having been one to encourage for cross campus collab) means all the researchers then have access. - Hedgehog
But doesn't this mean they're going to start getting sued like whoa? I mean, it was my understanding that Mendeley's provision of (some of?) this data to the publishers was one of the only reasons they weren't already getting sued like whoa. - Meg VMeg
Meg, I hadn't heard that. Got linky? Because that's a reeeeeeally interesting angle. - RepoRat
Hard to stop thinking about Mendeley-as-elsevier-loyalty-card for data collection. I'm not thinking about it wrt subscription enforcement, but rather as intelligence for future Elsevier product innovations. Future product innovations that help Elsevier as priority #1 and scholarship and open scholarship with the same priority Elsevier has previously shown. - Heather Piwowar
Is Meg referring to something like what Jason Hoyt mentioned this moring? - Hedgehog
Heather, regarding the insight available through the API and user activity. Imagine Elsevier was out of the picture, what would you say if Mendeley used it to do the same for itself. Develop and innovate on features that it had exclusive insight to, toward its own advancement? - Ricardo Vidal
I'd be ok with that. I've been assuming that's what you've been doing till now. - Heather Piwowar
So, following that logic, because you see Elsevier as evil, you consider that they'll certainly use the same tools to their advantage. Which is therefore bad. - Ricardo Vidal
I don't consider Elsevier evil. I consider them interested entirely in their own bottom line and very demonstrably willing to make decisions that are not in the best interest of science to defend and promote it. I don't want to help them do that with papers, my review hours, or my click data. - Heather Piwowar
as somebody said recently in a different context, if you're using their products when you have a choice, then you are funding their work. Unfortunately, academic libraries don't have much choice when it comes to subscribing to the journals, but we do have a choice of citation management platforms - DJF from Android
So we've talked about the enforcement angle and they understand this would be a really dumb thing to try to do. They want us more as a application platform since the whole Sciverse Apps thing didn't go all that well. - Mr. Gunn
Thanks for the feedback Heather. I see your point and can only hope that we can keep doing our good work and proving Mendeley a valuable tool and resource for researchers. - Ricardo Vidal
We've so far been successful with the approach that Open Access papers are read more, but if all the OA advocates leave Mendeley, then it's going to be hard to keep making that case. Having a strong OA community *within* Mendeley is really important and I hope people will stick around to show them that. - Mr. Gunn
soooo... instead we should implicitly say "Elsevier sucks except when they own something we like?" That's a stance I personally am kinda uncomfortable with. Like PSuber, tho, have never been a Mendeley user, so easy for me to say -- I'll just chug right along with Zotero the way I've been doing. - RepoRat
it doesn't matter whether the OA advocates are on Mendeley or not. People will still be reading their papers a lot. That's the point of OA. - DJF from Android
yes, but having good quality data accepted by even the most conservative groups showing the OA advantage certainly helps, and that's what Mendeley can provide - Mr. Gunn
Mendeley can definitely provide that, but again, it doesn't require that the OA advocates use it to achieve that. - DJF from Android
well, there will be less data on OA papers, less people doing interesting OA-related things with the data, etc. That's why I think people should stay. Just picking up your toys and going home is the easy way out. - Mr. Gunn
Sure, if we were children, and if this were a game. However, "if you're using their products when you have a choice, then you are funding their work" - Meg VMeg
And if I trusted Elsevier with the kind of data I would put into Mendeley. Here's the thing: I DON'T. That's not entirely Elsevier's fault (MIT and JSTOR and Attributor and Facebook own some of the blame, among others)... but I don't think Elsevier has exactly covered itself with glory, either, and it's *crystal* clear which financial side of the bread is buttered. Do I trust Elsevier to resist temptation for the sake of ethics? THEY HIRED ERIC DEZENHALL FFS. No. I don't. - RepoRat
So I'm glad that Mr. Gunn and Ricardo Vidal think Elsevier will do right by all this, and I think *they* believe that; I don't believe they're trying to blow smoke up FF's collective arse. I just... don't believe that will remain the case. Temptation much too great. Elsevier won't fsck up tomorrow, or the day after... but they'll fsck up. Guarandamnteed. - RepoRat
Elsevier is a big big place. I wish I could quote to you from the email I just got from some people within Elsevier promising their support in helping us make a business case for openness - saying they're our allies, but acknowledging that a huge organization like this isn't all going to be aligned internally. - Mr. Gunn
I got some great email about a global text mining plan too. Many people there really believed it. There was a time and a place and a scheduled tweetup. Plug got pulled. - Heather Piwowar from iPhone
no organization is immune from having plans canceled - Mr. Gunn
I agree. Though it wasn't a passive "plans were cancelled". Someone at Else cancelled the plans because they were too liberal/edgy/threatening even though had all sign offs till the day before. I just share that story to say we all know great email doesn't always work out. - Heather Piwowar from iPhone
Fair enough. Just pointed it out to show some nuance beyond the "everyone at Elsevier is evil and eats puppies" narrative extant. I have a feeling the task is even bigger than I realize, but that can't stop me from trying, and that really shouldn't stop you from supporting me, either. - Mr. Gunn
I'll try really hard not to take the quote "everyone at Elsevier is evil and eats puppies" out of context when I cite it in my next paper. :-) - Joe
I haven't seen that narrative on this thread. I'm trying hard to figure out a good way to support you that is consistent with what I believe, because I want to support you William Gunn :) - Heather Piwowar from iPhone
I support you, man. I just think they're gonna fuck you over, and it makes me sad. I do not want them to do that. - RepoRat
I do recognize the possibility, but I have to give it a shot. - Mr. Gunn
Salon commented here: Elsevier: All your data belongs to us via @Salon - WarLord
"some people within Elsevier promising their support in helping us make a business case for openness" Yes, and I'm sure all the hundreds of trillions of bacteria living in/on Hannibal Lecter and all his trillions non-neuronal cells were all nice and friendly - if only it wasn't for the measly 70-90b of neurons in his skull... Quite likely, the large majority of people working at... more... - Björn Brembs
I honor your efforts, Mr. Gunn. They remind me no little of my own vis-a-vis the libraries I've worked in. - RepoRat
This post captures Heather's sentiment, I think: - Björn Brembs
Maybe I will try my hand at a timeline of blog posts kinda like what John D does. - Joe
Wow, I haven't been back here in ages. Been trying to sort out my own thoughts on this...and I don't think I have a clear answer. I have a Mendeley account, I use it for a bunch of things including feeding the bibliography on my blog, and I haven't deleted it yet. Matt's point is the one that troubles me, Elsevier do have a history of running things into the ground. On the other hand it... more... - Cameron Neylon
...but there is another side to this which is that I know some of those cancelled projects of which Heather speaks and they had lots of those good people in them. So I worry about the inverse problem. What will happen to those people who have been on the inside working for change (and being shafted from time to time) now that there is a new shiny Open thing, both as the beacon everyone... more... - Cameron Neylon
I also remember when Elsevier bought the Beilstein database, and they have since greatly marked up access to that data. 1998 and 2007 were key years of that. This is kinda similar. - Joe
fwiw, i posted on it here: I'm pretty pragmatic when it comes to this sort of thing. It's not my primary reference manager (RefWorks is, sigh), but I intend to keep my account. - Christina Pikas
I also intend to keep my account, so that I can keep on putting stuff into the OA Irony Award group. A good bit of it from Elsevier. - Joe
(Slightly offtopic: here in this conversation we see what we lost when FF took a nosedive. This thread is better than all the scattered tweets and news links put together. I'm thinking it's time to re-invest in FF, since the sky hasn't actually fallen (I was a Chicken Little myself)...) - Bill Hooker
Something slightly ironic about returning because its back to a smaller group of people though... - Cameron Neylon
Have to admit I saw a link to Heather's post and thought "oh yes, Friendfeed, I remember when I went there..."But it is still here and functioning clearly which is interesting in itself. There must be some measure of maintenance and upkeep going on behind the scenes. - Cameron Neylon
y'all should come back. Nothing else is as good. - Heather Piwowar
Yeah, it's still pretty awesome and unlike anything out there. - Ricardo Vidal
It remains the best. Reminds me of my empeg :-) - Björn Brembs
Cameron, it's good to read your thoughts here. It's a good point also about BMC, which is itself now a part of Springer. I hope FF is still here 4 years from now when open access is the default and everyone realizes this ;-) - Mr. Gunn
I've just blogged about Elsevier's emerging workflows here. Scopus a big winner IMO. - Garret McMahon
Re: Elsevier acquired Mendeley. It's not as bad as I thought. -
"One thing that Mendeley did good was the PR BS. I can give you thousands of examples of unethical practices they did during the years (with proof). And now they do this even more PR BS "sorry to see you go"." - pn
Egon Willighagen
Thanks for the likes! - Egon Willighagen
Heather Piwowar
Fun! My paper with @tjvision is @thePeerJ preprint #1 :)
I will admit to stalking the @thePeerJ site a little till the preprint "Submit" button appeared. To each their own fun :) - Heather Piwowar
walt crawford
In case you're not one who reads my blog, here's the gist: As of March 25, 2013, I’m walking the walk: Original content is now covered at least implicitly by a Creative Commons “BY” license: It may be freely used as long as credit is given. Period. I’ll have the actual license and icon as soon as I figure out how to add it. (And I'm thinking about it for C&I, despite the almost total lack of revenue...) - walt crawford
And it's (CC BY) now there on individual posts. Not quite sure how to get it on the overall blog, but this is a good start. - walt crawford
Heather Piwowar
Text mining hits the pages of Nature News again, and quotes me from my blog #bloggingTotallyWorthIt
Doesn't *link* to the blog, mind you. Maybe that hyperlinking thing will catch on one of these days? - Heather Piwowar
nah, hyperlinks are just a fad. - RepoRat
Hypercolor's where the money's at. - Meg VMeg
I have a HyperCard stack about that very topic. - Catherine Pellegrino
I guess I could add the link here, in case anyone finds this and wonders: - Heather Piwowar
Heather Piwowar
In which I stop pulling punches with H Morrison (comments):
you go, girl - Meg VMeg
So her arguments not really making sense isn't just my reading comprehension problem? Good to know. - kendrak
Why is she being a jerk when you're essentially on the same team? - Christina Pikas from iPhone
she's not the only one who does that, PETER MURRAY-RUST and MICHAEL EISEN and STEVAN HARNAD and LI'L RICKY POYNDER. (There, see, they've got ME doing it.) - RepoRat
I've had Christina's question in mind for a while, and I think RR has the answer of sorts (and maybe add Bremb to that list). In Morrison's case, part of me hears a need to be The Authority on OA (with a doctorate on the subject and all). I suspect SK does less harm to OA than its "OA BUT ONLY ON MY TERMS!" advocates. Heather P, good to see you in the Suber camp (as I interpret the route you're taking). - walt crawford
The OA movement does seem to attract a fair bit of almost religious zeal on the part of some of its adherents. I think they all want to be pope of OA. Locking them in the Sistine Chapel and maybe losing the key doesn't seem like a bad idea. - John Dupuis
And the whole "nobody can charge for anything ever" isn't part of my definition of OA. - John Dupuis
it feels very empowering to call a trolling comment a trolling comment. I should do this more often. - Heather Piwowar
John: That last one is particularly interesting. Peter S. and others (e.g., Walt C) have noted for years that it would be both appropriate and interesting for a Gold OA journal to make all refereed articles free and charge for (a) print subscriptions, (b) non-refereed editorial material. I believe Science, for example, would do very well with such a structure. And be in the letter & spirit of OA. - walt crawford
Yup, BMJ has this model I believe. I do think it is a bit too bad... there is lots of great stuff in the magazine section that it would be better if the whole wide world could read.... but people gotta charge for something and the moral/research-progress arguments for magazine content being OA just aren't as strong. (fwiw this is why I was willing to write non-OA content for Nature's magazine section) - Heather Piwowar
Absolutely. The idea that only a very small number of business models are "pure" is counter productive, especially for non-scholarly content. (ie: - John Dupuis
Walt, I forgot to mention: yup, I am in the Suber camp on pretty much everything. If I ever find myself not in the Suber camp I reevaluate my position because I am likely wrong :) - Heather Piwowar
You folks are giving me so many good ideas for fresh material for my late-April OA precon (if enough people sign up for it). Keep it coming. (Sorry: Mild threadjack.) - walt crawford
+1 Heather. - John Dupuis
HM's comments are head-scratching, that's to be sure. It's like she's arguing that if Elsevier made its content CC-BY and then someone else developed a fee-based commercial product around that content that somehow the original OA content is thereafter compromised or less useful or no longer OA. Am I reading her totally wrong? - John Dupuis
It's like how some people think gay marriage rights somehow affect the sanctity or validity of existing straight marriages. - John Dupuis
I think you're reading her right, which is wildly frustrating. - walt crawford
It's like a car crash, I can't look away. - John Dupuis
That, Graham, may be the most patronising e-mail I have seen! Parsing it as '*I* know OA, leave it to me, you do whatever Sciency stuff it is you do' - Pete's Got To Go
Yeah, I think you were oaexpertsplained. - John Dupuis
Wow. Just wow. - walt crawford
HM is unexplainable. Does she not understand that the source remains oa and freely available no matter what happens to the downstream revisions and mashups? - Joe
Not cool to post private email in public, even when said email is weapons-grade assholery. - Bill Hooker
I'll hold my fire on Stevan Harnad, and PMR just pisses me off every time he shows up these days (what the fuck is with the stuffed animals? is he losing his marbles?). But Eisen and Brembs are very much part of the solution imo; without a few strong voices on the OA side it's too easy for the SKitchers and allies to slide the Overton Window their way. And how is Richard Poynder a problem?? - Bill Hooker
Eisen doesn't often screw this up, but when he does -- as IMO he did with the reaction to the OSTP memo -- he does it big. Brembs is very, very good at pushing organizationally infeasible Big Plans, which makes me (at least) shut right down when he starts up with his "libraries will save us!" crazytalk. Poynder has openly dissed libraries and librarians, taking his cues there from Harnad and PMR. - RepoRat
@404: I've argued with HM about exactly that. She worries about incentives for the commercial entity doing the enclosing to try to do away with the original, OA, source version. E.g. EvilCo™ Publishers duplicates PubMed Central and then lobbies the US gummint, which is famously and horribly susceptible to such nonsense, to reduce costs by defunding PMC itself. (Not to put words in HM's mouth here, any errors mine etc) (Edit: PubMed Central, not PubMed) - Bill Hooker
@RR -- ah, mine own ox was not directly gored by RP so I missed that. Mea culpa. Eisen is a good sport, you can yell right back at him (I did, over the OSTP memo, and I am but an egg in his HHMI-funded presence). Brembs can also take it as well as dish it, but I understand if you are just tired of pointing out where ugly facts undermine his beautiful theories about libraries and what they can do in the real world. - Bill Hooker
Well, the evil companies did try to shut down pubmed once, for being an anticompetitive use of government money intruding on the private sector. - DJF from Android
I'll admit that I'm likely deluding myself as to how much of the potential libraries have, they will be able to realize. However, I find the potential is large enough to warrant unrealistic visions and push for them. And besides, my library now does pretty much exactly what I would dream all libraries should be doing, and so is the entire TU Delft, so it can't be totally out of this... more... - Björn Brembs
Plus, I do feel somewhat sad to find myself on a blacklist set up by people who I thought were on the same team as me... :-) - Björn Brembs
Oh hey, there's no blacklist, there's just us arguing. It's all good. - Bill Hooker
@bb I'm quite enjoying the reactions to your recent article -I read a lot of the thoughts on your blog but having them in an article seems to be getting more attention. - Christina Pikas from iPhone
What Bill says. There's no blacklist. Well, there is, but only SK is on it. - walt crawford
Bjorn, don't worry you're definitely on my non-black list. I really do appreciate your vision of the role that libraries could play in scholarly communications, even if the path from here to there can be a bit hard to visualize at times. - John Dupuis
laura x
Aaron Swartz to Be Honored by Library Association - -
"The Internet activist Aaron Swartz will be awarded the American Library Association’s James Madison Award on Friday as part of the group’s Freedom of Information Day event at the Newseum in Washington, D.C." - laura x from Bookmarklet
On a related note, if people haven't had a chance to go to one of Cory Doctorow's Homeland book launches and heard the Aaron Swartz talk he gives, he kicks some serious ass: (I'm thinking of that because he gave the Toronto talk at a TPL branch, hosted by the Friends of the Merril Collection.) - John Dupuis
Heather Piwowar
Following up on FF thread from a while ago, I finally blogged about PMC bulk downloading restrictions and whether they are necessary due to copyright, as claimed. Please come weigh in?
Nothing substantive to add but thanks for bringing this some much needed attention. Egon asked related questions ages ago ( and I never could find an answer anywhere. - Bill Hooker
Zulema ❧ spicy cocoa tart
RT @sup3rmark: Two weeks of no pope: baby cured of HIV, breath test for cancer, salt water found on moon of Jupiter. Day one with pope: Google Reader dies.
And the baby might never have had HIV h/t to Derrick - Katy S
Hmm, is there doubt that the baby's HIV RNA PCR was positive? It might be a false positive, but detectable HIV RNA in the blood is usually interpreted as confirmation of infection. - Victor Ganata
That I don't know. I choose to be skeptical until I see more proof. - Katy S
It's actually fairly typical for viral load to be detectable on primary infection, then for viral load to drop to undetectable levels for years and years until CD4 counts start to drop. So I think it does make sense to be skeptical that's she's completely cured. - Victor Ganata
I guess the infectious disease doc who wrote the WSJ piece does doubt the initial viral load test, though. If they started the anti-retrovirals right away without doing a confirmatory test, then we'll never know if that first test was real or not. - Victor Ganata
Ugh, I don't know why I tried looking at the comments. It basically degenerates into gay bashing. - Victor Ganata
Haven't there been proven incidences of babies being born without HIV when their moms had it? - Zulema ❧ spicy cocoa tart from Android
Oh, yeah, that's definitely happened. If they treat the mother with anti-retrovirals, there's a really good chance that the baby will have a negative test (although this actually doesn't rule out infection.) What's different here is that the baby supposedly had a positive test, got treated with 3 drugs instead of the usual 2, and has had at least one negative follow-up test about two years after treatment, even after presumably stopping the anti-retrovirals after 5 months when they were lost to follow-up. - Victor Ganata
But since the latent phase of HIV infection where viral load is undectable can last for years and even decades, I think it's a little premature to declare she's "cured". - Victor Ganata
As always, Victor, you keep us well-informed. <3 - Zulema ❧ spicy cocoa tart
but whatever happened to google reader and Pope ?.. btw the med stuff is great leaning too - Peter Dawson
walt crawford
Gotta admit, this may be one of the most absurdly false opening statements I've ever encountered: "Ever since the creation of the Internet, the use of public libraries has been on the decline." [Link to the blog post--the author of which also recognizes that the line is false in every respect:...
Or here it is again, since it seemed to be swallowed: - walt crawford
SEE I TOLD YOU... oh wait - Blake
Hey, Blake, get all your "facts" from advertising schools, and that's where it leads you. I should qualify "false in every respect": I'm sure there's at least one public library system where use has been down since...well, geez, "the creation of the Internet" is several decades ago, and that would be one seriously underperforming public library system. So maybe not. Let's say "false in 99.9% of every respect." - walt crawford
John Dupuis
RT @researchremix: Awesome: PeerJ computes research $$ saved by choosing @thePeerJ instead of subscription journals. See front page +
Are any libraries/universities with OA fee budgets keeping track+publicizing their system "savings"? Sounds like a great thing to brag about, and a great way to reinforce that subscription money is, when it comes down to it, research money. - Heather Piwowar
I'm not sure if anyone is really publicizing their numbers but it would be interesting to know. There certainly aren't any real "savings" in the system yet. Paying APCs is an added cost to subscriptions/collections budgets and even when some hybrid journals refund the OA fee, that ends up cost-neutral. As for our subscriptions budgets, if our institutions were able to claw that money... more... - John Dupuis
And I did write about this very question: - John Dupuis
could be funders would lower allowable indirects to make sure the money is spent on research. there is leverage. - Heather Piwowar
You could compare the $$ value of APCs with the $$ value not paid on OA articles (green or gold) cited in researchers' reference lists. - Deborah Fitchett
There's a library-internal organizational issue as well that John (wisely) skates over a bit: there's a cadre of librarians whose JOB it is to allocate money for info. Just as they have been (with rare exceptions) signally unwilling to reallocate stuff-buying funds to author-side fee funds, they are not going to welcome the idea that their work is evaporating. So they won't want to hear about purported "savings." (I also agree with John that at this point savings are theoretical, not actual.) - RepoRat
There's one other issue that the OA movement as a whole needs to think harder about: "savings" = "no, really, we're NOT going to pay for journal subscriptions when stuff goes OA." Which is a thing the OA movement has been super-reluctant to say outright. Which I think is kinda disingenuous-verging-on-dishonest of us. - RepoRat
An interesting wrinkle from the Canadian perspective: the pot of money that the library budget comes from is largely provincial government funding + tuition, about 80/20 with variation among the provinces. The lion's share of government research funding would be tricouncil grants (SSHRC, CIHR, NSERC), which are the federal government. - John Dupuis
+1 RR. Though "savings" could also come from "we're way more willing to walk away from journal subscriptions unless they are lowered to a reasonable price" because their unique value is now lower. So partly from fewer journal subscriptions, partly from downward price pressure on subscription prices. - Heather Piwowar
John, thanks, I didn't know that about Canadian library funding. - Heather Piwowar
That being said, it'll be interesting to see what happens as we get past the OA tipping point and closer to the OA event horizon. When and how are we going to recognize that we can start drawing down on journal subscriptions and what is going to happen with that money? - John Dupuis
and what happens to the library and its staff, particularly in science libraries, when the wallet function is diminished? - RepoRat
the fewer papers that are only available by subscription (esp well-funded,correlated with high use, papers) , the worse the "pay per click" and "pay per paper you have access to" numbers are going to look. Publishers have been pushing these because they looked good in Big Deals as I understood it? But as more papers go out of that system, these numbers will start looking worse.... more... - Heather Piwowar
the problem, Heather, is that many of us have incentive NOT to push back, because our jobs depend on the current system. you know what they say about people understanding stuff their jobs depend on... - RepoRat
I know. And I hear you. I just don't know the solution. Is there anyone whose full time job is to increase transparency about journal prices? Could there be a person like that? Could be a uni/SPARC/etc researcher with this as their #1 focus? Who else could it be? Otherwise it is everyone's side project, but the "worthy opponent" is lots o people on publisher side dreaming up waysto spin numbers so they can sell for high prices. - Heather Piwowar
*shrug* at some libraries there are scholarly-communications librarians, but given the prevailing winds, they're often muzzled. they do what they can. - RepoRat
I don't know the history of SPARC, but it seems like librarians pulled together SPARC because they knew full-time, unmuzzled attention was needed on something that would (eventually) benefit everyone, is that right? So could it be a role in SPARC? Maybe a 2 year sloan-funded gig, to start with, to collect this data, consolidate it, maybe ideally start to put it in someone maintainable? feels like there should be a solution. I guess JISC funded is another possibility, but then not as NA relevant. - Heather Piwowar
suggest it to Heather? - RepoRat
yup. Except no. I don't have time, can't spare the focus. Which is everyone's problem. Which is one of the reasons we are where we are. <depressed><running away to go work on the things Im committed to work on while trying to care about fewer things><still depressed> - Heather Piwowar
hang in there. we're making progress. :) - RepoRat
"disingenuous-verging-on-dishonest of us" -- not it! I've been saying for years, in writing, in public, that OA would decimate profit margins in publishing simply by enabling real market competition. I think the tipping point for OA will come when that finally sinks in -- that the subscription model is a protection racket. - Bill Hooker
Nope, you're not it, Bill. :) But I know you know who is. - RepoRat
I think there are people in publishing who understand the potential very clearly and are engaging the battle on two fronts. First via sock puppets like KA who argue against OA. The second front is newer and perhaps riskier for them and that's the Alicia Wise "we love OA because APC dollars are potentially just as juicy as subscription dollars" strategy. No doubt kicked into high gear by that stock analyst report from a year or so ago. - John Dupuis
Tell a scientist that 3% -- or for that matter 0.6% -- of a funding agency's budget might be diverted away from directly funding researchers and that scientist will HOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWLLLLLLLLL. I have seen this happen. - RepoRat
Does anyone have the numbers handy on the total value of the journal subscription market? $4 billion seems to be a number at the top of my brain, but I could be totally wrong. - John Dupuis
Is there a known figure, rather than an estimate, for that total? U.S. academic libraries paid $1.253 billion in 2010 for electronic serials, but that's only a piece of the action. ($1,252,586,887, to be more "precise.") - walt crawford
laura x
an open letter to the Edwin Mellen Press | lis.dom -
Wonderful. Just wonderful. - barbara fister
Thank you for this. - RepoRat
You're welcome. I am only sorry that repeated bouts of illness meant it took me so long to write. - laura x
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