So we are all in and the speaker is here. Interesting set of people in the room. Publishing, funding, policy, trouble makers... - Cameron Neylon

liveblog commences - Graham Steel

there is a big screen up the front showing the BL room - I'd forgotten that the default UI would show a big smiley picture of me if I set up the item :-) - Cameron Neylon

Roughly how many folks are there, Cameron? - Graham Steel

There is probably about 60-70 people in the room I would guess - Cameron Neylon

Just starting now...introduction to the BL - Cameron Neylon

Describing digital initiatives at the BL - Shoutout to UK PubMedCentral, beta version of the website coming soon - Cameron Neylon

Twitter using #blts will be automatically streamed into the friendfeed room - Cameron Neylon

Sarah K introducing John - thinking for a while about having a session on the future of scholarly communication - Cameron Neylon

....and heres John! - Cameron Neylon

Going to be a cut through what is a big topic - Cameron Neylon

What is scientific "knowledge" - showing a journal page from late 19th C - Cameron Neylon

Communicated knowledge by writing it down, printed on paper, and posted out to people - Cameron Neylon

Showing a journal from Hindawi - really not very much has changed, incremental advances over the printed page article - Cameron Neylon

The earhorn example as an example of the pitfalls of incrementalism - see one of John's online talks at http://slideshare.net/wilbanks - Cameron Neylon

Overcoming incrementalism is a real challenge - large shifts require big changes in thinking. There is much more to scientific knowledge than the printed paper - Cameron Neylon

research materials, data, ontologies, annotations, wikis - Cameron Neylon

showing a semantically marked up paper - the one from PLoS Neg Trop Dis that was described in PLoS Comp Biol - Cameron Neylon

Google works because hyperlinks are sparse but with a fully marked up paper there are very dense links. May need to do something different, as well as "just" doing the markup. - Cameron Neylon

Now showing the http://beta.cell.com - it looks new. "It reminds me of when AOL told us what the future of the web was and it looked a lot like TV..." Want raw data, real information. - Cameron Neylon

We need radar, not earhorns, it is going to look very different and be disruptive. Just like radar was. - Cameron Neylon

If you'd said in 1992 that the web would destroy bookstores you wouldn't have been believed. Don't believe people when they say they know what the future looks like. - Cameron Neylon

Four princples of publishing: registration, certification, disseminatoon, preservation. Regisstration and dissemination obviously broken by web - Cameron Neylon

Now showing my lab notebook. Woot! - Cameron Neylon

Woot - Graham Steel

Instant registration and dissemination. But that is not enough. Otherwise could set up a random statement generator and wait for the Nobel prize to roll in. - Cameron Neylon

Preservation in the digital world is not so good. Internet archive is not comprehensive. Mention of LOCKSS program. Multiple copies with hashes. - Cameron Neylon

Peer review combines two things and confuses them. 1) Is it sound? 2) How important is it? - Cameron Neylon

First is (hopefully) more objective than the second. Showing a funny slide out peer review. I don't know the source. "Strange Matter"? - Cameron Neylon

PLoS ONE example - separating validity from impact - can anyone point me to the paper that correlated a persons publication impact with the likelihood of rejecting papers? Just got queried but can't find in Friendfeed right at moment - Cameron Neylon

Power of standardisation: TCP/IP and HTML examples. How to do for scientific information? Need three layers, technical, legal, and semantic. Semantic web doesn't really work yet. Legal infrastructure is getting there but issues as science is often not about making a copy - therefore copyright doesn't apply - Cameron Neylon

FYI, if following on Twitter, petermurrayrust and peterballantyne are both live tweeting the event. Use #BLTS at search.twitter.com. - Jill O'Neill

Annotation - a semantic problem. Giving the coffee exampls: again see http://slideshare.net/wilbanks for this slide sequence - Cameron Neylon

There are as many names for genes as there are names for coffee - Cameron Neylon

Need common names to be able to share anything semantically. - Cameron Neylon

Federation: There are at least 1000 databases with over 250 different terms of use for nucleic acids. BUt using climate change/polar info from Polar year project. Lots and lots of pieces. Trying to make informed decisions about climate change. 399 different databases with different terms on reindeer herding and climate change?!?! Did I really get that right?!? - Cameron Neylon

Discipline exceptionalism: "No one else appreciates how complicated our work is, therefore we need to write our own definitions and terms and policies" - Cameron Neylon

If we get it wrong - won't just be garbage in garbage out, but amplified garbage out. Systems could be unstable. Single copyright case brings the whole thing down. Wrong protein to wrong gene, people get sick and die. - Cameron Neylon

Moglen's analogy to barriers to open source. Ask not why the electrons want to move around the circuit. Ask what the resistance of the wire is? Key Question: What's the resistance and how do we overcome it? - Cameron Neylon

...applause... - Cameron Neylon

anybody out there wants to ask questions then drop them in here... - Cameron Neylon

Thanks Cameron & Fiona - Graham Steel

you're welcome graham, send you my chiropractor's bill later :-) - Cameron Neylon

Hmmm, not sure how many are library people per se. Most seem to be publishing or academic trouble makers... - Cameron Neylon

today's OKFN virtual meeting is now in full swing - can I keep up both? I'll try :) - Graham Steel

John: Its a complex problem, solution probably going to come from a stable institution, Universities, governments, publishers. (Me: Signfiicant question mark over universities' stability though) - Cameron Neylon

John: Deciding what to throw away may become the big problem as data explodes - Cameron Neylon

Complicated question about: "to what extent can you draw an analogy between 'mixing up scientists and the web and seeing what comes out free' and natural evolution". John answers talking about walled garded net services circa 1992. The web won out, in an evolutionary sense, because it was open and anyone could play. - Cameron Neylon

Stephane Goldstein: "Is there a mistaken heroic assumption that scientists like to share" [giggles from audience]. John: Publication and patenting are sharing. Not because people want to but because people get registration and validation. Therefore a question of providing incentives to share materials and links. Key is enabling people to claim credit through things other than traditional publication and citation. Freudian slip from John: "Need to allow people to go into an interview with a printout of their multidimensional impact". Me: Printout?!?! - Cameron Neylon

reading through the thread... "a session on the future of scholarly communication" sounds like a great topic for future shindings - Daniel Mietchen

Q. from the OKFN session that I would like to put to John and post back "Can we tell a story about people who have been helped by open data in development yet, or is it still theoretical" - Graham Steel

batteries about o go here. Ok - will try to ask that question - schedule is slipping here. John doesn't like making imprecise short answers... - Cameron Neylon

and what if, instead of listing editorial boards on your cv, everyone could see the reviews you did in public? - Daniel Mietchen

constraining size of publications is certainly useful, but could be much more effective if we'd replace the introduction of manuscripts by hyperlinks to collaboratively written encyclopedic articles that are updated as new results come in - http://bit.ly/4ftzn . Similarly, the methods and results sections could simply link to the relevant data pages at places like OpenWetWare, and the article itself could focus on the discussion aspect. - Daniel Mietchen