Ben Borges › Comments

"We invaded Afghanistan more than seven years ago. We have not broken the back of Al Qaeda or the Taliban. We have not captured or killed Osama bin Laden. We don’t even have an escalation strategy, much less an exit strategy. An honest assessment of the situation, taking into account the woefully corrupt and ineffective Afghan government led by the hapless Hamid Karzai, would lead inexorably to such terms as fiasco and quagmire. Instead of cutting our losses, we appear to be doubling down." - Sean McBride

This is now 100% Obama's and the Democratic Party's deal -- it's not about Bush, Cheney and the Republican Party. My read is that Obama lacks the strength to take on the neoliberals (neoconservatives) in the Democratic Party, controlled by Richard Holbrooke, Rahm Emanuel and company. - Sean McBride

Wow -- I have received absolutely no pushback from any of my posts that have been critical of Obama. Is no one defending Obama on Friendfeed? A bad sign indeed for Obama and this administration. - Sean McBride

Re bad sign: Either that (I doubt it) or people are just ignoring you. - Carlo Zottmann

Carlo -- I have close to 400 subscribers, and usually don't have much trouble igniting discussions (check my feed). What I think is going on is that Friendfeeders who were strong supporters of Obama before the election are beginning to realize that Obama's Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq policies are intellectually indefensible, and that Obama is getting into serious trouble very early... more... - Sean McBride

The paragraphs by Herbert above are eloquent and dead on target. Is there a single Obama supporter in America who is interested in challenging Herbert's points? I haven't encountered one yet. So why is Obama doing what he is doing? - Sean McBride

@Sean: what's to challenge here? are we screwed? yep. is there an easy end in sight? nope. is this Obama's doing? nope. can he solve this quickly? nope. Is Obama likely to be held accountable for the state of that nation? you bet. hey, i don't want his job - do you<g>? - MikeAmundsen

Mike -- I would expect to see a great deal of anger from Obama's base and strenuous efforts to hold his feet to the fire. (It's beginning to happen, actually.) If Obama had any backbone, he would be living up to his campaign promises. Instead he has handed control of his (and our) destiny to the very same political camp that ruined the Republican Party. Escalating American military activity in Afghanistan and Pakistan IS Obama's doing. He is now fully responsible for these policies. - Sean McBride

screwed is a little word for the extent of this worldwide ongoing damage and there is no Obama nor any other US or EU politician to save our asses, my comment can look dark but i'm not counting on any of the very politicians that have allowed this crises, wars and the rest to happen to save our asses now... - Ben Borges

Ben -- Herbert's point is that because of the extremity of the current economic crisis, Barack Obama should not be dumping more good money after bad in futile foreign wars that have no rational or realizable political objective. - Sean McBride

@Sean: ok, i think i see your point. you are disappointed in voters who elected Obama and are not giving him enough crap over not ending the wars fast enough. that's cool. you're looking for Obama supporters who want to way they're OK w/ how he's handling the wars, right? - MikeAmundsen

Or those who are still under the ether, Mike. - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

Mike: Obama is not simply not winding down the wars, in Afghanistan and Pakistan he is *escalating* them! I want those who supported Obama on the basis of his campaign promises last spring to start challenging the Obama administration and asking hard questions about where his administration is going. Don't blindly support this administration simply because Obama was your guy vs. McCain.... more... - Sean McBride

Do I sound a bit worked up about these issues? I am. I thought we were finally out of the woods after eight years of Bush and Cheney. Now I am not so sure. I apologize for the emotion on the subject. - Sean McBride

Sean, vis a vis Afghanistan and Iraq, Obama is doing exactly what he claimed he'd do. Concentrate on the former and exit the latter, based on conditions on the ground. He ran on exactly those ideas. Which part are you surprised about? - Rick Powell

Sean, did Obama promise to bring the troops home or did he promise to bring them out of Iraq? By moving them from Iraq to Pakistan, he accomplishes the goal. - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

Rick and Mark: I agreed with Obama that Afghanistan and Pakistan were more urgent concerns than Iraq. I believe we need to go after terrorist groups in those regions using highly surgical and nuanced methods. What I didn't envision was becoming entrapped in full-scale Iraq-style wars in those nations -- and that is the track we are now on. I don't think Obama supporters signed on for that policy, and they are beginning to complain. - Sean McBride

@Sean: i got no problem w/ your emotions. we're cool. and i share your frustration. FWIW, i don't blindly support Obama. just as i didn't blindly support Bush or any of the other prezzies. things suck right now. they've sucked for a *long* time. they'll proly continue to suck for a long time. - MikeAmundsen

Mike -- I pegged you as an independent thinker months ago -- I understand where you're coming from. My hair may be a bit more on fire than yours at the moment. :) - Sean McBride

@Sean: LOL. understood. hang in there, man. hey, cheer up -. maybe i will get even worse<g>! - MikeAmundsen

Don't get me wrong, Sean. I think there are a lot of supporters still mesmerized by his intoxicating cadence and smile that don't actually listen to what he says and pay no attention to what he is doing. - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

Mark -- you're right, of course. And I see few differences between these people and those automatons who supported every Bush/Cheney policy. - Sean McBride

btw - with all the convo on this thread, i can't understand why i'm the only who who 'liked' it so far. - MikeAmundsen

Mike -- perhaps Bob Herbert, the most liberal columnist at the New York Times, has become too radical a voice for many folks to endorse or encourage. :) How dare he challenge Obama. (He was a major Obama supporter during the campaign.) I think this is an extraordinarily important essay -- a watershed column, not just a run-of-the-mill bit of political opinionating. Herbert is crystallizing a major opinion shift on Obama. I know a strategic turn in events when I see it. - Sean McBride

See this also: Amy Goodman: Global Support for the War in Afghanistan is Plummeting -- So Why Aren't Americans Talking About It? https://friendfeed.com/e... - Sean McBride

More liberal than Krugman? - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

That's a close call, Mark -- reasonable people can disagree on that point.:) Both Herbert and Krugman tend to follow their honest thinking wherever it takes them -- and they manage to ruffle quite a few feathers. - Sean McBride

I'll cede that one is a very close second... Anywho... So, US drones are flying from Pakistani airbases and Obama is moving troops in. Would you be offended if I said "Called It!" - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

A first-rate prognostication, Mark. The question now is, where does it go from here and how far does it go. How many hornets will we manage to stir up from the non-terrorist sectors of Afghan and Pakistani society? How many new terrorists/freedom fighters will we create? - Sean McBride

I'll follow it up with what I also have previously stated: A presence in Pakistan, Iraq and Afghanistan gives the US unfettered air access to Iran. Also, Pakistan has water access so the US could bring much more equipment and troops in to Pakistan than to Afghanistan. - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

Genie: the first quoted paragraph in this thread, which stands nicely on its own, delivers a heavy body blow to the core legitimacy and authority of Barack Obama and his administration. One would expect Obama supporters to be roused to his defense. I am going to take a quick look around netwide to see what kind of response this column received. - Sean McBride

Interesting: this Bob Herbert column has received 21 buzzes (likes) on Buzzflash and 7 comments so far, all pro-Herbert and anti-Obama. This is from a *progressive* site. http://www.buzzflash.net/story... - Sean McBride

From Buzzflash on the Herbert column: "More importantly, We The People need to stop taking the 'he's got this attitude', the 'he's a zen master' attitude, the 'he's an enlightened being' attitude, the 'he's Lincoln, MLK and FDR rolled into one' attitude and we need to recognize what's really going on. Obama is defending Bush's outlawry in court. Obama has fired up the US military... more... - Sean McBride

Ok: this Herbert column is ringing a bell. Always reliable basic Google tells the tale: http://www.google.com/search... It is being widely reposted and reprinted, with many favorable comments. Check out the 40 comments, for instance, on Common Dreams http://www.commondreams.org/view... - Sean McBride

Mark -- the pressure to line up American forces in preparation for a military attack on Iran seems to be coming primarily from neocon/PNACer Richard Holbrooke, who is a co-founder of UANI (United Against Nuclear Iran): http://www.unitedagainstnucleariran.com/ If you think that it's a great idea for American foreign policy to be run by Benjamin Netanyahu and Likud, you'll love UANI.... more... - Sean McBride

I think it's a bad idea, not a good one, for the record, but it's important to be able to understand the thought process so that one might also be able to counter it. So it seems I understand the thought process well enough to be able to predict with a certain amount of confidence what the next two steps will be. That and $4.50 will buy me a cup of coffee. The general public seem ignorant/apathetic. - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

Sorry, Sean, I just don't see this "turning against Obama" thing. There's a big difference between supporting a candidate and in general supporting what he proposes, and then living with a Presidency. The press is just doing its job, as are its citizens. I would be a lot more worried if there were no dissent from progressives, although they must have been asleep during the campaign if they are surprised by anything so far. - Rick Powell

Rick -- most major historical trends and shifts in public opinion begin at the far peripheries of discourse, and I am fairly good at detecting them at their earliest phases. Two or three strong voices (like Bob Herbert, Glenn Greenwald and Amy Goodman) can often set in motion political tidal waves. I see major problems for Obama developing already, especially among his base. I've seen enough of his behavior over recent months to doubt strongly that he has any meaningful control over his own administration. - Sean McBride