Michael, if there's more I'll be updating it, naturally, although the API is pretty new - Duncan Riley
Duncan, I was referring to Winer's comments on the post. Perhaps you haven't seen them yet? - Michael C. Harris
Don't know why, but I'm getting network timeouts when trying to reach the page.. never has happened before :( - Bwana McCall
Michael, I have read them and I'm monitoring various channels. The API as I've written it up could be it, but it could be a fully fledged Twitter compatible (new) API as well....least that's what I'm reading people speaking in German talking about :-) - Duncan Riley
What's bad IMHO about identi.ca is that the solution offers to build multiple isles connected *two-by-two* i.e. A is connected to B, B is connected to C. But A doesn't know about C (if it's not connected to it). What's the benifit? Decentralization of course! What's the inconvenient? When a node of identi.ca's clones is down there's no mean to have a real continious discussion. - directeur via NoiseRiver
@directeur: I haven't dug in there enough to know whether it's required to be acyclic or not. If not, then it could be just set up as a redundant mesh with multiple nodes reconnecting to the fabric in various places. If not, link-deaths are going to be brutal. Didn't we already solve this problem? :P - Alexander Williams via NoiseRiver
@squidlord: Good idea indeed! And yes we did! :) I still somehow think that we're reinventing the wheel at a certain level. I'm sure that Identica folks are that close to find the ultimate solution, but IMHO having an established and well studied design and concept (I'm not talking about the openmicroblogging protocol, I don't believe in it) is the first thing to do. Delivering an API is the last thing to do. I'm like that I LOVE to challenge established concepts ;-) - directeur via NoiseRiver
@directeur: I've always felt the API needs to be done early, actually, and the rest of your interface should descend from it. If it's not useful to you as a designer, then why should it be useful to folks who want to leverage your work? (IRC, damnit. I totally want to see someone impliment a Twitter-clone on an IRC backend. :)) - Alexander Williams via NoiseRiver
@Alexander Williams (squidlord): Yes! Done before (it's a design workflow) but *delivered* when your design is solid. And Oh yes! I dream of an IRC solution too :) - directeur via NoiseRiver
Unfortunately Yahoo and these early-stage projects won't live long enough for this side-by-side comparison with Twitter - Jason Carreira
I hope he does well and improves FireEagle...no fail whale please! - Susan Beebe
Folks... Blaine is hellacious competent! Seriously doubt any one of you will eat their shorts when this proves out true. I'd have him on my team ANY time. - Gerald Buckley
I don't have enough technical knowledge to judge Blaine, but his departure didn't make Twitter better, did it? Re Yahoo's long term viability, even if Microsoft or 7 Eleven or whoever takes over Yahoo, I don't see these projects gettting killed. - Ontario Emperor via fftogo
Ontario, apparently, according to the latest twitter status blogs, his leaving has paved the way for improvement (if you read between the lines). - Jason Carreira
WTF - they spent their money on that? Well, I hope they have really fixed the problems they've had with the site or there would be no reason to search twitter!!!! GAH!! - Paula Hawk
It's a good buy. They will spend their money on development costs of a better "reply tab" otherwise. - Aaron Brazell
now all the twitter whores can make stalk accusations within the system. wonderful. - Noah David Simon
Don't get me wrong, I like summize, I just think they need to make sure they have twitter itself under control before buying out other sites - just MHO ;) - Paula Hawk
maybe summize is bringing something else to the table to help twitters back end - Brian Ries
@Brian, I believe Summize uses the XMPP access to get the public tweets. Given that they use it, have tons of activity and never had any real problems, search could be only part of the purchase. - Rob Diana
Yeah, these b/c/d-paper lenders (banks) are closing up shop (since late '06 and '07) and vanishing in the middle of the night... yet none of those held the assets of IndyMac. - Czar D.J. Peterman
haha! Do I remember wrong or wasn't Duncan one of those people who pretty much hated FF when people started coming on board? If so, it's great to see the turn-around! I completely empathize. :) - Lindsay Donaghe
Someone please tell me how to make $$$ by sitting at home on my computer and refreshing FF over and over. I promise to "Like" and "Comment" on lots of stuff. - Tad Donaghe
Lindsay, yes, but that's all in the past. I saw the light, via Louis :-) The thing I didn't get at first (and the thing Louis called me on) was I didn't see the value in the conversation. Now I do. Probably way to much given I'm never off FF :-) Tad, tell me about it :-) - Duncan Riley
The addiction is contagious Duncan. I can empathize with your condition as I have the same symptoms! ;-) - Larry Kless
hey Tad, there's a business idea. Feedpimping! - Anthony Citrano
Maybe PayPerPost can do a PayPerlike? ;-) - Duncan Riley
So yeah, they asked permission to open the phones, and we told them no. Told them that if we had to activate in-store instead of at home, then we were opening them in the store, and they would allow us to shoot our episode there. Then, of course, they sent us home to activate due to their issues. - Andru Edwards
Only thing that's put a smile on my face today with all this iPhone nonsense is the Godzilla one! Seriously funny... - John Samuelson
"Like Saddam, we're total bad-asses. We have missiles! Godzilla! Our soldiers are all armed with flaming holy scimitars! You will drown in rivers of your own blood! Stay away." - Chris Baskind
The idea that they only have a 75% success rate on something they deem as "an awesome display" is definitely something to be ashamed of. This is the best they can do, and it was barely a passing grade.' - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
Louis, whilst I am amoungst those that value your opinion, that hypothetical, improbable does not lick the boots of the reality of shameful journalistic integrity, misrepresenting a nation (of people, remember), and spreading that lie as far as the eye can see. When we turn the emphasis away from the facts of what happened, we make it matter less. - Michael W. May
the neo cons control Godzilla. Watch out it is a Zionist threat - Noah David Simon
Louis: Three hitting your town would be a big deal, but none of these have enough range to reach your town... or any town in Israel, which is the larger concern. None of these are Shahabs http://tinyurl.com/6ch6pg. - Steve Lynch
always remember that close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades and nuclear weapons. - Nathan Eckenrode
Luckily we aren't obligated to only read those things that Techmeme deems important. - Ontario Emperor
And for the record, I don't want the discussion on Techmeme for personal traffic. I want it on Techmeme for exposure and expanding visibility. - Louis Gray
maybe, just maybe because it's not really newsworthy? racism is alive and well, so nobody should be as surprised as you seem to be when it rears its ugly head on the internet? - Andy Green
There's some 'X' factor Gabe has. Some sort of engine that's tracking memes based on terms. Big blog links can make it happen. Smaller blogs probably have to fall into that 'X' factor world. - Hutch Carpenter
Except, Andy, that TechMeme's goal is to track "memes" and discussion or news on the Web. This is clearly one of those "memes" that is engaging conversation. I've been on there a number of times for discussion that's not necessarily "news". - Louis Gray
The perennial problem of race and class issues, is that throughout history, it's a zero sum game. It's a given. - Kevin Lim
can you remember a story that has generated so many comments? techmeme's failure here will be something we will remember when we're looking for news that has the community buzzing. - Nice Fish Films
@louisgray actually, it appears that techmeme is simply following the "tech" part of its name. if you look at the front page, it's all about technology, not social issues such as racism. To me, techmeme is simply keeping its eye on the ball by not participating. - Andy Green
Personally I'm happy it's not on Techmeme...the news today is iPhone and iTunes. And besides, it's TECHmeme. - Mack D. Male
I'm torn as to whether this story should receive more coverage. Do we want to give these people more attention? @Louis what value do you see in continuing the discussion? - Carla Thompson
ah well, we tried. we could talk about this at elite tech news podcast. - Jason Kaneshiro
Carla, the commentary from SAI, SheGeeks, Profy, Shey, Bwana, Hutch all added to the conversation as to their views and experience. I want to increase the visibility of how real and rampant this problem is, rather than turn away from it in a fit of Apple/iPhone/MobileMe mania. Those of us in this sphere have seen multiple opinions, but I bet 80-90% of those who read Techmeme and other sites haven't yet been made aware. - Louis Gray
@louis - please continue to highlight this issue. I'm totally shocked you seem to be the only one saying this is unexceptable. - Toby Graham
I think if you're reading TechMeme, chances are pretty good you're on FriendFeed or subscribed to one of the bloggers you mention. While I disagree with those who say the story doesn't belong on TechMeme - it's about racism within tech communities - I think these assholes attacked Wayne and Corvida to get attention. And that's exactly what we're giving them. No, they won't go away if we ignore them but I don't think their behavior is going to change because more people are aware of it. - Carla Thompson
@Toby I don't think it's the case at all that Louis is the only one saying it's unacceptable. I think there are differing opinions on how to respond to it. - Carla Thompson
These blog posts are getting dozens of comments and there are multiple blogs linking to each other on this topic. I can't think of any reason why this shouldn't be on TechMeme today. - Mike Doeff
@Carla, zero tolerance is the way to deal with it. "The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing." - Albert Einstein (thanks to AJ Batac for sharing the quote) - Toby Graham
How can the topic *not* be on Techmeme? I'd assumed the algorithm was automatic. Just how much of what gets on there is subject to human editing??? - Sprague D
What's pathetic to me are the people who dismissively say, "Why are you so shocked, it's always like this," as if it's a non-issue. Those are the people who just "ignore" it, therefore giving tacit endorsement of the homophobia/racism prevalent in online discussions. You want to stick your head in the sand and pretend it's a non-issue, fine, but the rest of with a spine/ethics/balls/morals are going to keep talking about it. - faboo mama
Faboo mama: I think it's because of how much information and culture people appear to consume and yet when a tiny slice of reality shows up it's like OMG BAD PEOPLE. That's not necessarily the same as an endorsement, it's more of a critique of how isolated people are, in a world much bigger than them. - Eric Rice
@Carla I don't see why the puppets can make Techmeme and this issue shouldn't. I've seen so many comments to the effect of "Wow I didn't know this still happened in 2008". People need to hear about this. - Shey
Too busy tracking real issues in the space, you know.. like the iPhone - sean percival
Does anyone know how TechMeme works? Was it manually curated out by TechMeme or did this whole conversation stay on FF and not really on Twitter via TinyURLs? - Elliott Ng
I don't even read TechMeme, who cares. Aren't we all going to run into these stories at one point or another anyway? - Shawn Farner
I don't read techmeme either, to be honest. I have come across these stories solely because I either already subscribe to those bloggers, or I saw it here on friendfeed - Rahsheen Porter
We should digg, bookmark, et al a single post on the subject to gain visibility. Need a focused effort. Any suggestions for the single post we can all digg? Of course, one post on the subject by the very cool Dave Winer would be an excellent solution ;) - Dave Martin
I am the same as others...I dont really follow techmeme. I can get all the stories via twitter or friendfeed. - (jeff)isageek
Interesting - for some reason so many blogs have been omitted, including Louis who started the discussion here (and I think his post on the subject was the first one, correct me if I'm wrong). What I don't get today is where Gabe Rivera with his reply - he usually jumps in pretty quickly with his explanation that we all have no idea how exactly Techmeme works. Gabe? - Svetlana Gladkova
It says in the name: Techmeme. Tech. This is - as is hunger in the world, bombing of terrorist, war, American Idol and other stuff etc not a topic related to tech just because people in tech blog about it. As for Gabe not replying here - this is what you get when you put tons of comments in a scattered service and expect somebody else to know about it. Or for example do you read all services available on the net about yours Svetlana? - Nicole Simon
Perhaps I'm overparticipating in FriendFeed, even at just a few comments a week, if people sense something is amiss if I don't reply to everything involving Techmeme. Anyway...Andy Green mostly covered the obvious points. So, what's the story here? Some anonymous losers said nasty racist things in some chat area (which happens all the time), and then Louis Gray noted how bad that is? Hmm...if you're going to suggest that an omission on Techmeme is wrong, you're gonna need to find something more uncontestably newsworthy than that. - Gabe Rivera
The tech piece is the anonymous nature of the communications. This is the Internet form of wearing a white sheet and covering your head. There is absolutely a tech angle-- the tech enables this behavior. I'm not saying anonymous shouldn't be allowed, but burying your head and ignoring it is not the answer either. - Kevin
@Nicole: Actually yes, I have all the alerts enabled for Profy everywhere I can in order not to miss something related to Profy. And as far as I know, Gabe must have some similar system for Techmeme since he really constantly appears on FF with his explanation of why our guesses about Techmeme are wrong moments after the comments are submitted. - Svetlana Gladkova via twhirl
Typical response there Gabe --- treating it as an isolated incident -- that's one of the reasons why it took a year for the TechNigga thing to blow up. I definitely see a link between the Feldman news and this incident. Feldman got continued coverage through his puppet crap yet this doesn't. - Shey
Oh jesus, then get ARRINGTON to post about it, THEN it will matter. Feldmen's his pal apparently. Besides, this DID hit the news last time because He talked about it. This year later thing is because something went from social media's wild west space to the real world which bitchslapped Feldman's ass back into struggling comedian-dom. There. You got it. Have a great day. - Eric Rice
And don't give me this shit about 'newsworthy', the PUPPPETS made it on there. As have 12 million Twitter/Friendfeed/Facebook Twitter/Friendfeed/Facebook Twitter/Friendfeed/Facebook Twitter/Friendfeed/Facebook posts. Try polling some grownup shit like Bloomberg. - Eric Rice
And it doesn't matter if you personally don't read techmeme or not. Others do. Others do in order to catch crap like this. That's all from me, I'm gonna go eat the head of a baby harp seal now. - Eric Rice
lol I'm not even sure you know what it is we're talking about. Yelling is ok; just do a little reading first before making yourself look silly. - Shey
Thanks for adding to the conversation, Cyndy. (Cyndy was there with us and DM'd me on Twitter immediately, saying "that was just about one of the ugliest things I have ever seen".) - Louis Gray
Cyndy, sadly there is not another side to "social media", if that were the case it would only be a problem for a limited subset of the world's population. There is another side to people -- a side we understandably don't want to spend much time looking at. - Robert Seidman
Cyndy thanks for speaking up. Agree we individually have responsibility to speak up. Male, straight, white people should have a say however...and that say should be that racism in any form is not cool and should not be tolerated. - Elliott Ng
I'm afraid to like this post but I like you for writing it. As you know, I'm much more cynical than you so I really wasn't really shocked. But still sad. We have come a long way, but have a long way to go still. It takes time. More than a lifetime, sadly. - Robert Seidman
It was horrible. As I said earlier, I actually came back here to read FF,with the interview in the background. The chat was so distracting that I couldn't keep up with the conversation. At first it was one or two and I could keep up with you and Shel and the others, then it became too much, like a magnet for scumbags. - Victor Ryden
That's horrible, and I do find it surprising - guess that's probably naive. - Patrick Jordan
Good post, Louis. Racist behavior happens every day on the web. In Hawaii, it's everyone vs. everyone else. - Bill Sodeman
Thank you for shedding light on this subject - it's shocking. - Sonciary Honnoll
not surprised. the web is only a function of the society we live in and many elements within our society are simply ignorant and incorrigible when it comes to race issues. anonymity afforded by the web to many just provides an extra incentive and set of tools to let their hatred spread. perhaps that's a defeatist or cynical way of looking at things, but many people have to deal with this kind of disdain day in day out. - Cee Bee
It's atrocious, but not necessarily surprising. Many like to think we've come along way. We have in some respects. But as Louis said, there is an underbelly, but I'd venture to say it's less secret than most think. That being said, I don't think Feldman fits into this category. I put his video in the category of extreme social commentary. I respect that some view it as racist, but to me he's satirizing a subset of society that does exist, not just in African American culture, but American culture. - Seamus Condron
Anyone that's gamed can tell you the same... spend an evening on Xbox Live. Now, about that Cluetrain Manifesto..... - Eric Rice
What's interesting is there are so many areas around the country that treat racial issues differently. I noticed a HUGE gap from the East vs West Coasts, North vs South.... Some people are too sensitive while others are too desensitized. - Mona N
I've been careful not to wade into the Feldman/1938 nonsense. So far, it hasn't been my battle. But while I understand this type of talk is common in some places on the Web, I was very unhappy to see it, especially toward Wayne and Corvida. There is absolutely no place for it, and I felt it necessary to be brought to light. - Louis Gray
That was an excellent post. I'm not shocked, I've been on about the racism that permeates blogs and social media for years. I'm glad to hear that Corvida and Wayne handled it well. - faboo mama
Are you people seriously shocked about this? I grew up in California (the Bay Area to be exact) and when I lived in Manhattan I experienced ALL sorts of things I never have in my life. ie: being called "Chinaman" to my face... as a pick up line lol - Mona N
Already commented on the blog. This one was overdue. Thanks - Charlie Anzman
It's shameful. What can you do but try to spread tolerance and intelligence in your own life and work. I still get angry though. - Graham English
Mona (and others), maybe "shocking" is the wrong word. I'm not too naive to think this doesn't exist. But I can still hate it and be very dismayed by it. Just because it's commonplace doesn't make it acceptable. - Louis Gray
Louis, I hear you, and I'm definitely not condoning it in any shape and form. Racism and ignorance is a problem that is rarely addressed in open light and I think it's great that in FF, we're able to have civilized discussions. The issue (IMO) we should be talking about is what we can do moving forward to prevent these thoughts... - Mona N
In need one last one here. As opposed to when I lived in a 'Metro area', it's not to hard to find these sentiments (against all kinds of groups) in deep rural areas. It's the older generations ONLY. The kids have grown up...Thankfully - Charlie Anzman
Thanks for highlighting this through your thoughtful and balanced post. I am constantly amazed with the uncivil nature of commenting on some websites and I suspect people think they can hide behind that word: anonymous. - kamla bhatt
The US' global efforts are noble but we have so many issues within that need to be fixed and addressed first. Like EDUCATION - Mona N
I was in there also for a little bit, and I saw enough in that span of time. It was a shame, the stream was interesting aside from the chat. - Shawn Farner
Charlie, I don't know which rural areas you're speaking of, but Harrisburg Pennsylvania, Blatimore MD, New Jersey... even the outskirts of California are um... sheltered? To say the least. lol - Mona N
@Czar Derek Peterman: you can not pretend that attitudes like that are not prevalent throughout the internet. Look at YouTube or Digg comments, some of the most classless people to ever exist. Listen in on an Xbox or PS3 game. Think about why most black bloggers now moderate their comment sections...Yes, it's "The Web". - faboo mama
@faboo_mama I didn't get to say thanks for helping me get my Seesmic account into friendfeed :-P So I'll do that here. @Mona_N I hope you aren't busting on Harrisburg!!! I like to think we aren't that sheltered. - Shawn Farner
Racism and homophobia are both hugely prevalent in gaming communities: a vast section of the internet population. Calling someone a "fag" or making racist jokes is more common than saying "hello." It's still very much this: http://www.penny-arcade.com/co... - Mark Trapp
Mona - You touched 1 chord with education. The other is 'role models and great leaders'. Our media has made it nearly impossible for great leaders to run (or even just speak) without some sort of scandal. Maybe, over the long term, some of US can fix that right here on the web. Louis' reference to Martin Luther King had me wondering if he could have even achieved what he did ... in today's world. Food for thought - Charlie Anzman
Shawn, I had a ton of good and bad experiences at Harrisburg lol - Mona N
Having lived my entire life in southeast Texas, this doesn't surprise me, either. It always saddens me and makes me angry, but never surprises me. - Trish Robinson
You're just getting a glimpse at what a lot of people of color see daily. Not always overt, but the anon posters bring most debates and discussions to the lowest possible level. Check out Topix with hotbutton issues. - sergiooo (droffset)
See the thing is, so many people get "shocked" or "rant".. but shouldn't we be discussing NOT how awful/horrible/un educated these commenters are but what we can possibly do. If you are aware, I believe it's part of your social responsibility as functioning human beings in society to do something, anything, with these strong opinions.... - Mona N
The best example is Katrina. After the nation went into mourning, what happened? It was forgotten. (btw I signed up for the Red Cross and volunteered) - Mona N
It's hideous, true - but I actually find naked, obvious racism much easier to contend with than the less-obvious kind. When someone spouts vile spew like that you discuss here - I just write them off as worthy of any attention or respect. It's those who hold similar beliefs but hide them under pretense of being polite that scare the hell out of me. They're harder to unmask and more common. :( Kudos to Wayne & Corvida. - Lucretia Pruitt
@Mona N: When I see/hear stuff like this, I always call it out. The first thing I'm told is that Im being sensitive, then come the flood of emails from people who are too wimpy to stand up to racism in "public" but are more than willing to offer emailed support. - faboo mama
...see this is why I hardly post political and or current issues on my feed. Once I open my piehole I can't shut up. Bottomline: I think it's great so many people care. Now the question is, what can YOU do? - Mona N
best way to care is not to encourage that behavior within our environments, and educate those we can. - Todd Jordan
I wasn't there, but I go through this almost every time I stream live on Ustream.tv. This is why Feldman's behavior didn't surprise me. This is also why I prefer Ustream's moderation tools (IRC) to silence and permanently ban the cowards. - Bwana McCall
Isn't that censoring? I think it's great these issues are brought to light... Now whether I agree or not is a WHOLE different story - Mona N
It is amazing that guy who dismiss real world racism (Winer was a Wright apologist) get all bent at some off color humor. - Soulhuntre via twhirl
as a black person, I'm not too offended by that stuff. I've had one girlfriend (white) whose family and friends would talk about me using the word 'nigger', and another Puerto Rican girlfriend whose one side of the family refuses to accept me for being black. I've experienced racism from the Amazon Jungle to the Carribeans to Colorado.
It's really something where, as a young black male, I don't really have time to convince everyone to be thoughtful and courteous of color, sex, religion, ethos, or any other physical, hereditary, or learned characteristic.
Besides, why let someone who hides behind anonymity get beneath your skin? At least in Feldman's post he was who he is.
The most important thing in this country is not that everybody is not racist, but that despite whatever social or cultural difference or prejudice someone has against you or I, opportunity still flows abundant. - David Adewumi
Louis, thanks for bringing it to our attention. This is an important discussion that we're having and we need to shine a spotlight on this type of ignorant racist behavior for the world to see. Even though it's everywhere, it doesn't mean it should be tolerated or condoned. Call it out and fight it down where we can. - Larry Kless
Lucretia, you're so right about the "less-obvious kind" of racism being harder to deal with. "TechNigga" and everything Loren said about black people didn't bother me. It was just so much attention whoring from someone who imagines himself to be Lenny Bruce. But Arrington *asking* if the videos were racist, claiming that complaining to Verizon was some kind of conspiracy -- y'know, THAT kind of pissed me off. :-) - Karim
I was amazed that Arrington, who is not a *complete* idiot ("as far as I know"), could sit there and watch black people being depicted as boozing, drug-abusing, bling-wearing thugs whose primary interest in technology is real-time prostitute tracking, and then ask his readership, "What do you think? Is that racist?" - Karim
Maybe it's not racism I hate so much as fucking stupidity. lol - Karim
lol I wish. Alas the exact Arrington quote was, "So what’s your opinion? Is the video racist? Should Verizon have stood by Feldman? Tell us in the comments." Maybe next week he can do a story about lynching in the Jim Crow era and wind up with "So what's your opinion? Were these killings racially motivated? Were the black men guilty? Tell us in the comments." Idiot. - Karim
It's interesting what happens when you hang out with people of like mind. I just don't come across this sort of stuff. - Michael C. Harris
What a douchebag... whoever this Arrington person is - Mona N
Mona N & Karim: :) you guys both said good stuff. - edythe
if you think you are a race, you will find racism, because you define yourself by it... same with sexuality of gender - gregory lent
Reading this a little too late. Well said, Louis, Mona, Karim. - Parth Awasthi
@gregorylent Odd comment. The issue is, what happens when other people see you as a *race*? Are you saying that racism is a figment of the imagination of the people *experiencing* it? That's precisely backwards. - Madsimian
Madsimian, what's wrong with you? :-) Didn't anyone teach you how to play "Blame the Victim?" (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V...) It's *supposed* to be played backwards: it's always the innocent victim's fault they got lynched, or denied entrance to the country club, or denied the job, because they chose to *see themselves* as black. Remember, it's always the victim's fault! - Karim
Loren Feldman makes the exact same point in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...) when he says that "The problem with the black community is that they're self-hating.... It has *nothing* to do with the white guy." He repeats the point again later for emphasis: "White people have *nothing* to do with black people's problems." Always blame the victim. - Karim
@Karim :) Ok, I was baiting gregory lent a bit. My wife is the racial justice program coordinator at a YWCA, and I was looking for an easy win to make up for all the times she's confounded me in more nuanced argument... I'm cheered that this discussion is happening, actually. Both racism and sexism are arguably more of a problem online than off. Good that some folks are noticing. - Madsimian via fftogo
