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Bret Taylor to Bret's feed, FriendFeed News

You can now get a daily or weekly email digest for anybody's feed on FriendFeed. You'll get a daily or weekly email with the most popular posts from that person's feed. To get the email, click the "Email/IM" link at the top of anyone's feed, and select the "Best of day" or "Best of week" email option.

August 6, 2009 - Comment - Like - Share

Forex Berza, Ahmet Alpat, ᏓᏰ #team Monique and 258 other people liked this

You can see all of your email settings at http://friendfeed.com/setting... - Bret Taylor

37 more comments

Thanks Bret! :) - Matt Ruiz

Thanks to Kevin for doing a great design for what turned out to be a more complex set of UI options than we had originally anticipated, and thanks to Tudor for implementing the email backend. - Bret Taylor

Great! Thanks! Love FF! - Scott Monaco

I now get the FriendFeed Feedback posts as a Best of Day email so it doesn't fill up my feed, but I don't miss feedback. I also set up a "Best of Day" email for my "Technology people" friend list so I get a pretty good overview of tech news every day via email. - Bret Taylor

This is a really cool idea Bret, I wish you can make that an RSS feed option as well. I'd be much more likely to read summaries in RSS than in email. - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

Mark: http://friendfeed.com/bret... - Casey Muller

Lovely. Thanks guys. - Mitchell Tsai

Casey: Thanks for the tip. What's the 7 before the "?" mean in the URL? The number of likes or replies needed to be included? - manielse (Mark Nielsen)

this is killer, the random influx of email during the day was kinda getting fail-ish. I love the daily digest. - Drew Lucas

Very cool! Any way to get archives of previous months? (especially helpful for those of us who leave the internet for weeks at a time...) - Mitchell Tsai

WOW. that's really helpful！ - K.D.

Looks like a great addition for those who are not embedded on the site. Nice intro. - Louis Gray

Cool! - Josh Haley

Ahsan: it is somewhat random right now when the emails are sent, but we built in the backend capability to control what time they are sent, and we plan on exposing that control to users in the future. Right now, it is kind of random - sorry! - Bret Taylor

Cool! can i get a daily or weekly email digest for the "Saved searches"? - 0M0M from email

This will be incredibly useful. Thanks to all involved in the design and execution. - Kathy Fitch

Nice addition! - Michael Fidler

But what exactly is "Best"? Is it anything that has a certain number of likes/comments? - Laura Norvig

@Bret LOL THAT WAS MY PROJECT! I will release it tomorrow. But you've also did it and killed my friendfeed application **sigh** But mine has multi-reporting weekly-daily-monthly at the same time and adjustable entry count! - Alp

@Bret please consolidate me or I won't code new apps with you api! :-) - Alp

Alp: we were not trying to withhold data. Later today the documentation will be updated to reflect the ability to obtain "Best of" for users. The feed id will be USERNAME/summary/N (similar to "Best of" for lists) - Benjamin Golub

Hi Ben, that is pretty funny, I tried that URL earlier today to see if it has been secretly released :) - Paul Kinlan

Bret: While Twitter struggle to keep their fail whale under control, you guys are developing stuff like this. Amazing - Thanks! - Jim Connolly

awesome feature, this will be highly useful for my corporate group ideas / content sharing; projects, etc.... THANK YOU :) - Susan Beebe

Great work. I especially like that it works on lists too. - Meryn Stol

my inbox might say different, but I like that :-) - Dobromir Hadzhiev

Wow, this is really neat! And it links into the idea I expressed earlier, re: reducing signup friction / enabling limited guest privileges. Imagine if I could embed one of my FF rooms on my personal web site, and enable people to subscribe to that feed by e-mail with just a couple of clicks... rather than saying "you can get e-mail notifications but you have to sign up for Friendfeed first." "sign up" -- though admirably lightweight on FF -- is still a huge barrier. - Adam Lasnik

is there a love button cause I dont like this option I LOVE this option..great work guys - (jeff)isageek

Three options I would like (1) Can I select "top 100" instead of "top 30"? (2) Could I select both "best of day" and "best of week"? (3) How about older timeperiods? I'd love to get an e-mail with stuff from last week or Mar 2009? Start & end dates? Anything to help me read FriendFeed off-line would be great since I spend long periods off-line at festivals (especially during summer time) or overseas. - Awesome job guys! - Mitchell Tsai

So this works on groups too, cool! But we still cannot see Best of for groups on the site on friends lists. :-( I have several friends lists that include just groups and when I select to view the best of the page it's empty (even though if I got to the individual best of for those groups there are entries there). - Kol Tregaskes

does anyone know of a web service that can do this? (I'm thinking weekly email updates of my favorite feeds/people) I don't think there's anything like friendfeed .. - Franc, a rememberer

That's a cool feature - Xitong Liu

Emails no longer get sent except for Subscriptions. The last non-sub email I recieved was July 15th, 2011. - Gimminy

I still get them. - AJ Batac

I get these every day. - Me

i get it - solncee

I still get it - AJ Batac

*jealous* I no longer get anything but subscription emails. - Bruce Lewis

Paul Buchheit

Blame FriendFeed - http://www.techcrunch.com/2008...

May 24, 2008 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

WoH: Professor MOTHRA, Francisco Euzebio da Cruz, Pat Hawks and 26 other people liked this

"Remember: I blame FriendFeed for this, and Robert Scoble, Steve Rubell, Dave Winer, and all the rest of the puppets and ex-Techcrunch analysts who, by appearing to rationally debate the pluses and minuses of FriendFeed versus Twitter, suggest FriendFeed even exists in the absence of Twitter. Nik Cubrilovic doesn’t help either with his cogent (except for the Rails part) analysis of Twitter’s scaling problems. Nowhere in this debate (most of it mercifully hidden forever behind the FriendFeed black hole where conversations go to die) was there a word spoken about the fatal Track bug until Jack hit the Off switch. Now, in the cool clarity of no pulse whatsoever can we begin to rationally approach a solution. Forgetting that Hillary has shown no indication of processing the similar lack of pulse in her White House aspirations, let’s put the blame for all this squarely on the parasite API suckers and their dark master FriendFeed. Good." - Paul Buchheit

32 more comments

? - Paul Buchheit

I accuse my parents (a little MST3K humor) - Mark Dykeman

My guess is that a good deal of folks who are otherwise technology experts haven't yet mastered the "Hide" option, and seeing Twitter in FriendFeed makes them feel it's simply an echo chamber for Twitter. Hiding Twitter, and/or utilizing the many other sources that are not Twitter here in FriendFeed makes it more valuable. - Louis Gray

Someone pass around what Steve Gillmor is smoking. That is some heavy stuff he's got in his stash. I think I counted 10 words he seriously made up for that post. And why is friendfeed to blame for the XMPP/Jabber shutdown? - Mark Trapp

WTF? This guy reminds me of Gary Busey, but angrier, if that's even possible. - April Buchheit

This article simply doesn't make any sense. Please reword for clarity. - Eric Florenzano

This is very amusing :-) - j1m

I was afraid when I saw "?" there. And now...no comment... :S - Erhan Erdoğan

Is he kidding? I hope he's kidding. FriendFeed exists with or without twitter. In fact, I would love to see twitter removed from FriendFeed altogether. Guaranteed there would still be plenty of conversations revolving around the links shared, the pictures posted, etc. - EricaJoy

I don't follow Twitter at all on FriendFeed. I find it somewhat ironic that one of Steve G's big passions was (is?) "Attention Metadata" and FriendFeed via likes, comments, etc is actually a service that makes great use of attention metadata! - Robert Seidman

I enjoy that this Friendfeed post has more comments than his post on TechCrunch. - Mark Trapp

This is the most buzzword-laden web 2.0 rant I have ever read. It's like he is making words up to describe stuff every other paragraph or so. And.. what's this jab at Clinton in the middle? How random. - Phil Glockner

FriendFeed direct posts are really similar to Twitter in my mind. - Hutch Carpenter

@Paul can you share the percentage of FF users that hide twitter posts? - EricaJoy

Gillmor refuses to realize that the comment feature of FriendFeed does indeed add value that Twitter lacks. That's probably the key reason why I MOVED MY conversations to FriendFeed! Also, the sharing feature is the reason why I like FriendFeed! IF I merely wanted the 'stream of consciousness' of Twitter, I would just use Twitter! I think that FriendFeed 'exposes' the 'chinks in Twitter's armor' - Thomas Ho from fftogo

I think that Mark Trapp's observation is 'priceless' - Thomas Ho from fftogo

It sounds like Gillmor hasn't given FriendFeed nearly enough time if he thinks it's only "Twitter, but slower". I have a great time on here with Twitter hidden half of the time. If anything, let's blame Twitter for so much noise and/or so much conversation due to their issues - Andrew Dobrow

FriendFeed can definitely make it without Twitter...so many conversations occur without Twitter being involved at all. - Chris Rossini

That... made no sense to me. Still dazed from the insanity of it all. I see more conversations here on links and such than on tweets. And really, why is FriendFeed to blame for the Jabber shutdown? Seriously! - dgw

Hilarious - Aviv

Twitter is probably the least interesting feed I see on FriendFeed. - Adam Thorsen

funniest ever on tc - kosmar

This whole article was most undirectional article, I have read in recent times. I read it twice, and can't make out, what he want to say. - Varun Mahajan

Adam, same here. I personally find the vast majority of twitter messages to be extremely boring and of no use to me. - Aviv

Where are these "siloed conversation spamyards" to which he refers? You could say that about any chat system (if I understand his rather obtuse meaning) and FF discussions are quite cogent and open. (And seem especially so if you've ever spent any time in the Digg comments.) - Nicķ

I usually keep the Twitter FF feed open. FF is definitely NOT the only app pulling on Twitter's API. Hundreds of sites, clients, etc?. Twitter had (maybe has) time to distinguish itself. Just 'come clean' with regular community updates. (PR time?) So far it's been lame. In the meantime, there's no doubt Friendfeed will continue to increase it's pull. Twitter put the API out there. THEY need to deal with the results, whether they were ready or not - Charlie Anzman

FriendFeed is what you put in to it. If you add all your Twitter friends and nobody else, FriendFeed will appear to be Twitter with siloed conversations, but in that case that's exactly what you asked for. If you don't add a thousand people as friends and convince a thousand people to follow you then you won't see any of this 'spam graveyard' Steve talks about. You get what you ask for, and irrelevance is what you get if you add irrelevant friends. - Kevin Fox

It's also worth noting how much FriendFeed thrived when Twitter had its difficulties this week. That would seem to put a hole in the argument that FriendFeed is primarily a downstream service to Twitter. - Kevin Fox

Yea Cat fight !!!! - viki saigal

OK friendfeed is NOT twitter. Its something else, and I like both. (sticks out tongue)...via feedalizr - Photo Larry

He shouldn't drink before writing for TechCrunch - Alejandro

man, I honestly care jack shit about what people post on Twitter, but I find FF incredibly useful. Gillmor is seriously off his rocker with this post (which is the least legible I've seen on TC in a long time). - Chieze Okoye

4 years passed, all the comments are still valid. #humdaybumpday - Ahmet Yükseltürk

Dave Winer

If you're going to do an API please use XML.

July 15, 2008 - Comment - Like - Share

urdumania1, John Mueller, Alan Le and 10 other people liked this

Interesting why only XML for the API ? - Peter Dawson

14 more comments

No more JSON? - Jim McCusker

I agree; JSON is barely human readable. - Roger Jennings

But on huge sites, JSON may make sense from a price & performance perspective. - Jim McCusker

why use xml? and more generally what type of API? - Rob Diana

How 'bout you provide options so developers can use what's appropriate for their application? - Ken Sheppardson

If you are doing an API that will be accessed from a browser use JSON. XML is the wrong answer. But most people ought to just offer both. It is trivial to offer your API in several formats. - Sam Pullara

XML isn't supposed to read by humans, it's supposed to read y machines. But I like Same Pullara's point. Returning data in various types isn't that difficult. - Chris Jones

XML is more generic, but really its only presentation - make it as easy as possible for people to use by offering the output it in multiple formats (RSS, XML, ATOM,...). - martin english

JSON please. But really it's pretty trivial to do both - Benjamin Golub from fftogo

agreed. XML is universal and has things like XSL, XSLT, XPath, XQuery that you can use with it. JSON has no such ecosystem, just a quick and dirty way to parse a string. XML is more than a string. Plus, JSON has no way to validate it, as far as I remember. - Eric Marden

I like JSON better. It's faster and easier to parse IMO. - Winston Teo

If you intend your API to be consumed by a browser then please provide it in JSON. Its just so much easier and faster than having to parse XML. And JSON being barely human readable? Um, isn't that why we have computers now? And wow, do I remember the fuss that was made over XML back in the early 90's how that wasn't human readable. We got computers to read it for us as well. - Troy Forster from feedalizr

why is it so hard to support both? - Jesse McPherson

As several people have pointed out the best ideal is support multiple formats. JSON works best if your API is being consumed by a browser or similar platform where javascript is the language. If you're building a desktop app in something like .NET then the native tools to de/serialize XML are fantastic. RSS and Atom are XML with specific DTDs and there are tons of libraries optimized for these formats. - Troy Forster

Dave, has your opinion on this changed now that you have a JSON parser? - Original Flavor

Louis Gray

“Size Comparison: Twins vs. Electronic Gadgets” - http://friendfeed.com/e...

July 19, 2008 - Comment - Like - Share

Andrea Alexia, arieana, Mike David and 90 other people liked this

"Yes, it's me, abusing my baby pictures quotient on FriendFeed again. But in case you wanted to get a visual on Sarah's size, here's one item for comparison - the iPod Touch. Also included, Matthew, sleeping next to the iPod Touch, TiVo remote and Blackberry. It's better than using a ruler!" - Louis Gray

36 more comments

LOL LOUIS!!!! - Mona Nomura

This will replace the pencil markings on the wall as a measurement of growth. - Hutch Carpenter

Way too cute! - michael sean wright

will there be an unboxing at some point - Allen Stern

The TiVo remote has hardly changed at all in 10 years. - Robert Seidman

WOW, they are SMALL! cool pics!! I love the one with the baby on the couch with 3 devices - Susan Beebe

Okay that's just really damn cute :) - justine

one day these kids are going to say, 'dad used us as props for his gadgets!'...and then there will be blood! lol - .LAG liked that

@.LAG, then I'll remind them how when we parked in what I thought was acceptable shade outside Babies R Us today, they both went nuts, and I had to extract them from their car seats and walk into the store (using the exit), with the pair held tight to my chest, to commiserate with their mother. I'm sure I was quite the sight. "Hey! Look at that guy! He's in over his head!" (fingers pointing) - Louis Gray

Hey! Someone should say you - this is really unhealthy!! : ( - Erhan Erdoğan

@Louis - You definitely look in over your head. However, I was that way with only one. Now my children are 21 and 18 and I still remain in over my head. ; ) - Rex Hammock

This made Maryam crack up and say "that's cute!" - Robert Scoble

@Rex, I look in over my head? Definitely? Where's the proof on that? I disagree. :-) - Louis Gray

I don't believe you all - Robert, Louis, Maryam, all likes, comments - i urgently need a judge for this photos! : ) Your tech love is get out of control!! - Erhan Erdoğan

now let's see the Touch duke it out with the Blackberry - Paulo Elias from twhirl

I'm so going to do this one day when I have one. haha - Daynah

@Erhan and Brian, 1) They're not sleeping with the gadgets in their cribs (yet) and 2) I am not worried about that nonsense. I might as well unplug the microwave and TV while I'm at it, no? - Louis Gray

We always left a computer keyboard in our kids cribs as a toy -- they loved it. - Oldengrey (Jay)

The important thing to remember is that if Louis were forced to choose between his children and his gadgets,,,well, I'm sure the kids would find a good home. (JUST KIDDING!) - Ontario Emperor

lmao I'm so reporting you for this. Too hilarious - Corvida

Hey guys you have to see this related post... Scoble is competing with Louis' over coolest kid toys! http://friendfeed.com/e... - Susan Beebe

OMG! that's priceless! I <3 it! Put the device on vibrate and see what happens! I bet it would sooth any crankiness. Can you say iTunes visualizer? Better than Baby Einstein. Makes us AND them drool into relaxation. My son has gumdrop iMac in his bedroom specifically for that reason (glorified nightlight). Hey! We have to do what we have to do, right? Why not have some fun with it? Hellz ya! - Melissa Davis from twhirl

You know Louis, most parents use a wall and a pencil to show height and growth, you choose electronic equipment, what comes next? comparisons to the wii and ps3? then a macbook, then macbook pro, then dell blade server, where will it end?!!?!? - Allen Stern

Oh what beautiful little souls! I'm sure they are very precious to you :-). - Heather Colman

umm... it's not too heavy on him?! - Orli Yakuel

those photos are really embarassingly sad. Please leave the kids alone. - Claudio Cicali

A coochii coo! They are too cute! Twins are born small but they'll catch up in no time! Congrats! - Zulema ❧ spicy cocoa tart

LOL.. awesome pics - Aviv

apparently Amazon S3 is down - Shey

Total weirdness - the cuteness overload causes the pics to show for me even when S3 is down! It might be just my cache, ofcourse, but I like the first theory better :) - Yuvi

I'll take the electronics when the kids are all grown up. It won't matter to me that the stuff is decades old. - Rishabh Mishra (p248)

oh this is ROFL! - susan mernit

Ok, from one tech geek to another, that has to be the most cute thing I've ever seen. =) - David Cook

It's February 21, 2009. I'm in the middle of a music search on FriendFeed and found these pictures from July 19, 2008. How time flies... - Ontario Emperor

Wow, where'd you dredge this up, Haggis? - Kevin L

Just showed this to Matthew, and he says, "That's Braden!" - Louis Gray

beautiful - Rida Sayf

Sarah Perez

KickPost Predicts Popular Posts for Top Tech News - http://blog.louisgray.com/2010...

July 18, 2010 from Google Reader - Comment - Like - Share

Caleb Elston and Zu from AOD liked this

Would love your thoughts Sarah! - Caleb Elston

Louis Gray

KickPost Predicts Popular Posts for Top Tech News - http://blog.louisgray.com/2010...

July 18, 2010 from louisgray.com - Comment - Like - Share

Mike Fruchter, Oguz Serdar, Hutch Carpenter and 3 other people liked this

KickPost is the newest product via Caleb Elston: http://friendfeed.com/calebel... - Louis Gray

2 more comments

Get in here: http://kickpost.com/beta - Louis Gray

my cabeasy man! - Allen Stern

Hey guys! Thanks for the post Louis. I just finally decided yesterday to put it on hacker-news for some feedback, didn't expect anyone to pick it up, but then again, you are the guy who detected Toluu traffic from your logs :) - Caleb Elston

Ken Sheppardson

I’m Joining TWiT - http://www.kensheppardson.com/2010...

May 4, 2010 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Alfredo 亜瑠布れっど, Glenn Slaven, Adewale Oshineye and 46 other people liked this

"For the past few months I’ve been consulting with This Week in Tech (TWiT) helping build a new TWiT.tv website. Last week Colleen Kelly—who’s done an amazing job building out TWiT’s studio, live & mobile streaming infrastructure, and IT systems—decided she’s moving on from TWiT and accepting a position with Google. One thing led to another, and Leo Laporte and TWiT CEO Lisa Kentzell made me an offer I couldn’t refuse: I’m joining TWiT as their VP of Engineering." - Ken Sheppardson from Bookmarklet

18 more comments

Ken, seriously!!! Wow, congratulations! - Micah

Thanks, guys. It's been sort of a crazy, mind numbing few days :-) - Ken Sheppardson

And Colleen's going to Google. What a wild ride for ya'all. - Micah

Wow - congratulations Ken! That's exciting! I admit I'm a little jealous ;-) - Jesse Stay

It's sad to see Colleen go, but I'm happy for her, and I'm happy for you, Ken. I knew I have heard your name before when Leo mentioned your name. It's so exciting. Whoohooo!!! :D - Molly Song ;)

If you need an assistant... Even to rub your feet and get your dry cleaning, you have my number :P - Johnny from iPhone

Congrats Ken. Do share some juicy stories with us. ;) - Meryn Stol

That's awesome! See ya in the cottage! - Robert Scoble

Congrats! - Vlado Handziski

Congrats Ken! - Shey

Well done. Attaboy!! - Roberto Bonini from iPhone

Congratz man! - Carlos Ayala

People at the cottage keep asking me if I know what I'm getting myself into... as Colleen walks through explaining everything she's built it's a little mind numbing. In a good way, of course. :-) - Ken Sheppardson

Congrats, Ken. All the best to you. - Derrick

:-)"mind numbing",hm I saw mind halo. Congrats,Ken! - Slavomira

Congrats Ken! - imabonehead

Wow, awesome! Congrats to you *and* Colleen. - Laura Norvig

Congrats - Timothy Caron

cool - rose-angela

Paul Buchheit

It's interesting that having my FriendFeed and Twitter set to public is completely unremarkable, but my using the same setting on Facebook seems like a big deal, e.g. http://blogs.wsj.com/digits...

May 5, 2010 - Comment - Like - Share

polymath22, Dave Martin, Glenn Slaven and 85 other people liked this

The first sentence of that article should explain the difference to you. If it doesn't, then I think you need to lay off the Kool-Aid for a bit. It's clouding your mind. - Akiva

291 more comments

Were either Friendfeed, or Twitter, sold as a private place to interact with friends, to begin with? - Gimminy

Akiva, putting those two sentences next to each other does not mean that they are logically connected. I chose to make my settings more public. Why is that an issue? - Paul Buchheit

Doesn't your Facebook profile have things like address and phone number? - Gabe

Yeah, as I mentioned, I don't make phone and email public because I don't want sales calls or whatever. - Paul Buchheit

"We made the site so that all of our members are a part of smaller networks like schools, companies or regions, so you can only see the profiles of people who are in your networks and your friends. We did this to make sure you could share information with the people you care about. This is the same reason we have built extensive privacy settings — to give you even more control over who you share your information with." - Mark Zuckerberg 9/8/06 - http://blog.facebook.com/blog... - Carter ♥ JS

That's not the issue, Paul. The issue is that the privacy settings in Facebook can cause people to 'unwittingly expose' information about themselves. My FriendFeed and Twitter accounts are also public but I don't have my home address or phone number or anything linked to those accounts. You, of course, are far more educated about Internet privacy and whatnot than, say, Grandma Indiana... more... - Akiva

The point being that Facebook level-set their users to expect privacy as the DEFAULT. Twitter and Friendfeed never did that. - Carter ♥ JS

Akiva, I'm pretty sure the default for home address and phone number is not "public". I only adjusted my defaults to make them more public, not less. - Paul Buchheit

I think the 'big deal' portion has everything to do with original intent and marketing - Twitter and FF haven't been marketed as private. Facebook very explicitly started that way. In migrating away from their original ideas, the FB team as not been a) open or b) responsive about privacy concerns. I really respect your work, but FB staff dismissing these concerns because they don't... more... - Jennifer Dittrich

A Twitter or FriendFeed profile doesn't list your address, phone number, schools you attended, employer, personal interests, family members, birthdate, etc. If you fill in the blanks on a Facebook profile, all of that is shown. - Rochelle

+1 Rochelle. - Jeff (Team マクダジ )

Paul, you might be right. When I signed up for Facebook, the first thing I did was lock down everything that I wanted locked down. But not everyone is going to understand that. And it doesn't help that you guys are consistently changing (you may say, refining) how privacy is controlled which just adds to everyone's confusion. Combine that with the fact that it seems like your boss is... more... - Akiva

Perhaps you're reading too much into what I said. All I said was that I made my stuff mostly public, and that I've gotten a lot of value out of that. - Paul Buchheit

I think we'll all look back on this transition from "privacy is essential" to "privacy is an obstacle" to be on the biggest bait-and-switches ever executed at scale (400+ million people). - Carter ♥ JS

I locked down everything... And then everytime some new "feature" rolls out, I need to go back and "re-lockdown" stuff... It's annoying - Jeff (Team マクダジ )

I probably have, Paul. I think I just saw your statement in contrast with the article and went with that. - Akiva

+1 Carter re: biggest bait-and-switches ever executed at scale. - Alex Schleber

I'm curious what everyone here is putting on their fb that is so secret? Maybe I'm doing it wrong. There are certainly things that I don't want out there (like my credit card numbers), but I'm not going to put that on my fb profile. - Paul Buchheit

I don't think it's so much the information as it is the principle of the matter. But maybe that's just me. - Derrick

Btw, I agree that there is a legitimate debate with respect to the way in which Facebook updates defaults, but that wasn't the topic we were discussing. - Paul Buchheit

Really Paul? Look, in all likelihood Facebook, Zuck, and you are succeeding at pulling one over on hundreds of millions of people. And you know exactly what you're doing. Fine, you win, but please spare us this "innocent from the country" routine. A certain class of people (read tech geeks) are not fooled for one second. - Alex Schleber

What Derrick said. - Rochelle

Humor me Alex. I'm genuinely curious what people are most fearful about. - Paul Buchheit

Example: I have friends on Capitol Hill in DC who are insanely paranoid about their public image, but still like sharing some fun photos or stories with close friends. That's one use case. There are MANY more. Please don't treat yourself as representative of 400 million people. - Carter ♥ JS

It's simple really: I use Facebook to communicate with my Family and Friends. Those communications are *not public* and they're damn well going to stay that way. FriendFeed/Twitter are not places where I talk to family and friends. - Otto

For example, why does one need to share a real name, or phone number at all? You don't have to do that with FriendFeed, or Twitter. Can you do that on Facebook at all? - Derrick

The problem I have with the Facebook deal is that it was a bait and switch. They got people to sign up with this understanding that your info was in a closed system and seemingly secure unless you didn't want it to be. Then, after they got everyone to input their info, they said, "Hey, we changed our mind; we're going to give it to advertisers anyway. Quit if you want." - rowlikeagirl

Paul: I get value out of having Twitter and FF completely public. Thats not the issue. The issue here is that FB was originally sold as a private service. Another thing. You and I may have seen value out of being completely public, but the only value to anyone about Grandma Indinana being completely public belongs to the knitting accessories advertisers. - Roberto Bonini

Paul, for me, it's not a matter of fear but a matter of ownership. I'm definitely on the more paranoid end of the scale as I'm only marginally comfortable for people to know even what city I live in. On the other end of that spectrum are guys like Robert and Louis who put their cell phone number on the web and welcome people to call. I don't want any of my information going out of my... more... - Akiva

It's simple, Paul. While I agree that I myself never put much of anything into Facebook I might live to regret, the same isn't true for everybody else. Several examples curated over here: http://alexschleber.amplify.com/2010... - Alex Schleber

This "value to advertisers" meme is interesting. It gets repeated a lot by bloggers, but nobody ever explains what any of this has to do with advertising. Ad targetting could be done regardless of privacy settings (just as Google does). - Paul Buchheit

I have no problem talking to the world about things going on in the world. But that is definitely *NOT* what I use Facebook for. I use Facebook to talk to people I know about things going in our daily lives. I use it to communicate with my BBQ team members. I use it to talk to my mom and dad. None of that is useful for anybody else to know. Nothing I post on Facebook is useful in a... more... - Otto

You have a BBQ team? Is that as awesome as it sounds? - Paul Buchheit

Yes. :) http://www.thequesbrothers.com - Otto

Re "value to advertisers": by making more of FB public/open/crawlable, you can increase the volume of traffic/pageviews and ultimately increase impressions/clicks. Money in the bank. - Carter ♥ JS

And for the record I don't have a FB account. In the old days, snail mail mostly guaranteed privacy for your communications by virtue of the fact that your communiques were physically sealed by you. That essentially is the analogue version of FB pre privacy changes, albeit not at scale. In other words, privacy was implicit in the social convention of exchanging snail mails. With FB,... more... - Roberto Bonini

Can anyone show up to those competitions and eat the food, or do you have to be judge or something? I'd seriously consider making the trip. - Paul Buchheit

"Privacy is hard; let's have a BBQ!" :) - Benjamin Golub

Judging is a process that requires certification and a class, sort of thing. However, the WCBCC here in Memphis next week has a "People’s Choice" category. Basically you pay like $4 and get to judge 5 different samples from 5 different teams. Repeat as many times as you want: http://memphisinmay.org/peoples... And then, of course, if you know somebody on the teams, and can talk 'em into it, then it's all you can eat... :) - Otto

You cannot argue with a thread that gets derailed by BBQ. It's against the law. - Akiva

Carter, I doubt it. Fb has a completely ridiculous number of page views already. The bump from searching random status messages or whatever would not be significant. - Paul Buchheit

Speaking of profiles: Benjamin, you need to update yours to say "Facebooker", right? ;) - Carter ♥ JS

Wow, I'm definitely going to have to go to memphisinmay sometime. - Paul Buchheit

Paul, you can NEVER have too much traffic. Come on... anyway, this thread has made me hungry. And it's only 11am PST! :( - Carter ♥ JS

Carter: As far as I know people that work here don't call themselves Facebookers. But I have that exact question listed in my Twitter profile: http://twitter.com/bgolub - Benjamin Golub

Dang, now I want bbq. - Derrick

"I promise Facebook will or will not take over the world with Likes, targeted ads, and evil privacy violat... oh look, there's a shiny BBQ object over here..." :( - Alex Schleber

Paul, the issue is choice. Facebook users used to be more private by the nature of what Facebook was. It's great if some people want to be more public, but in the process of adding those features, Facebook has most definitely removed choices to keep many things private and essentially coerced more public settings, but yet still operates under a model where people's profiles are expected... more... - Tinfoil 2.0 from iPhone

I'm really glad Paul's talking about this - I wish more of the Facebook team would talk about intentions. I hear a lot through personal connections, but nothing makes a bigger difference than the internal team being willing to talk about this stuff with the public. - Jesse Stay

I have no problems with aspects of my profile being public, but IMO the problem is that Facebook tends to go with default opt-in often enough, and in general isn't consistent with how changes are implemented and doesn't necessarily make it easy for users to know exactly what they're doing. - Deepak Singh

+1 Jesse (as another FBer) - Ashwin Bharambe

Here's my opinion: Facebook is in a no-win situation. If they stay private, everyone criticizes them as a "walled garden", and they can't grow as fast either. If they go public (yet keep privacy controls in place), everyone will criticize them for revealing too much information. I think Facebook's making the right move in making things more public so that future new users know without a... more... - Jesse Stay

Jesse, it ultimately doesn't freaking matter what Paul thinks their intentions are (so far he is sounding a tad naive here), only the eventual *outcomes*. Do you trust Mark Zuckerberg? How about Microsoft or anyone else who may one day buy or control Facebook? - Alex Schleber

Then there's this: http://www.eff.org/deeplin... re: the new "connections" formerly known as Interests, etc. ... yeah, Paul, let's see your detailed response to what is said in that piece. Thanks in advance for not veering off into BBQ. - Alex Schleber

FB Privacy concerns now bore me. For anybody interested in continuing BBQ talk: http://friendfeed.com/otto42... :-) - Otto

Alex, ultimately you can't trust any company, can you? - Jesse Stay

Otto, amen - Jesse Stay

FWIW, Facebook does have a process for users to debate these terms - if enough users disagree Facebook will re-evaluate. I believe the last few times there weren't enough objections to change. - Jesse Stay

Also, FWIW, the only information available by default is here: http://www.facebook.com/help... - specifically, "name, profile picture, gender, current city, networks, friend list, and Pages" - Jesse Stay

I don't think it's that big a deal they're sharing that, personally. Heck, I give away my phone number and e-mail address on my blog, both publicly and in a parseable manner in the source code. - Jesse Stay

Jesse, that "process" is totally rigged. The problem is that users are lazy and stick to defaults (even if those default change over time). Asking lazy people to log objections is very cynical. - Carter ♥ JS

Carter, and I don't think most users really care - Jesse Stay

Well, they don't care * incrementally*. It's like the frog in the water that never notices the water is getting hotter until its too late :) - Carter ♥ JS

Ye ye...keep telling yourself that, Jesse. I think TODAY's Facebook IM glitch proves that they still do care to some extent (if they are conscious of the issues at least). do you want all your instant messages to be public? How about your phone SMS and convos? What if the phone/cell co decides that all that really doesn't need to be private anymore, that your privacy is overrated anyway, and people should just get with the "new openness" program... - Alex Schleber

Alex, you guys are way too paranoid. Just don't put anything online you don't want public and you're fine. That goes for Facebook as well. Educate people on that rather than saying "the sky is falling" with Facebook. - Jesse Stay

"If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place."--Google CEO Eric Schmidt - Ashish

Jesse - that is a fine thing to say if people are giving *warning* that what was default private has now become default public *before* it happens. With the changes recently made I now have people who are finding my best friends family members (both girls) because now my likes and wall posts are public. Now I have to stop communicating with them until I figure out all of the myriad ways to hide my FB data and even then the trust has been lost so I doubt I will continue. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Re: Eric Schmidt - search Google for "Eric Schmidt affair", good stuff! http://www.google.com/search... - Carter ♥ JS

i miss friendfeed. - Zee.

As anyone who's married knows, it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. - Darren

Facebook did what they had to do to compete long term in the ever changing social landscape. - Darren

It was the right decision. - Darren

Darren, even if FB considered it the proper decision (which I really hope they do for all the grief they are getting) it could have been executed in a more tolerant/privacy friendly manner. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

bear, consider the actions of recent Facebook's warning. It's clear Facebook wants to be more public. - Jesse Stay

Darren.. I agree and they did it in a VERY impressive and powerful way. It even uses privacy rules in place since last Nov/Dec, so I don't understand *most* of the recent complaints. - Chris Myles

Chris, agreed - Jesse Stay

Jesse, Chris - that is great that they used existing framework as it did make it easier to check what changed. But what isn't great was the lack of info (and it could be because i'm just now a FB "power user") on the fact that my actions on other's posts/events now cause them to be more visible than *they* want. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Chris/Darren, just because "they did it in a VERY impressive and powerful way" doesn't mean we all have to like it. The same could be said e.g. for the Nazi's taking over Germany. - Alex Schleber

Yeah, what LogEx, Akiva, Roberto, etc all said: FB started off closed. People signed on with a certain set of expectations. FF and Twitter started out open, people signed on to those two with different expectations. It's like why no one (reasonably) complains the bus is public but would complain if their taxi started picking up a bunch of other passengers midway - the rules changed midstream, to the detriment of the existing users. - Andrew C (✓)

Oh wow - now Facebook is being compared to the Nazis? Really??? Except you don't have to be on Facebook. The Germans had no choice. I wish those with problems would just kill their accounts and stop complaining. This is getting ridiculous. - Jesse Stay

BTW, I think most of the Facebook team would take serious offense to that Nazi comment - Jesse Stay

Here is another "everything you ever do with/on the Internet is pretty much public" counter-example: Online Dating. Do you want all of your "dating graph" (any profile you ever checked out, messaged, etc.) made public? Yes, there is no absolute expectation of privacy - e.g. vis-a-vis the state/law/etc., but I doubt too many people would have started using these services if the companies had said: BTW, we will eventually make all of this information public or semi-public. - Alex Schleber

Alex, personally, I don't have a problem with that, but I live a boring life. Again, don't use Facebook or a dating site if you have a problem with it. - Jesse Stay

FWIW, those things get exposed all the time - Jesse Stay

...and yes, I agree that one should think twice about posting/using anything on the Web, but that doesn't mean all privacy questions are a binary decision. Just because someone can get to certain information somehow, is NOT the same as a company shoveling it out the door with all hands on deck... as is now the case with FB "Open" Graph. - Alex Schleber

Jesse - will you please *stop* saying "or a dating site if you have a problem with it"! FB started as a private way to share personal information *by design* and then it changed how it works. If FB would let me delete my account and *my data* then I would have done that the first time they changed how things work. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Bear, why can't you delete your Facebook account? It's quite simple. Do it, so long as you stop complaining. - Jesse Stay

Wow. - Derrick

Alex, have you ever seen the information Google has on you? Google has much more than Facebook right now, and you probably don't even know it. - Jesse Stay

@jesse - i'm not complaining about anything except the pious holier than thou way you keep saying "hey, if you post in public you get what you get" while completely ignoring how the rules got changed under the FB users feet. PLUS you can't DELETE an account - it just gets "deactivated" and all of the data remains. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Bear, no rules were changed since December. Features added, yes, but nothing changed. BTW, I'm pretty sure you can delete your account entirely. If not, they can't do anything with the data after you cancel, at least per the terms (only thing they can do is keep it on your friends' news feeds, which I think makes for a much better experience). - Jesse Stay

@bear: True account deletion is possible: http://www.facebook.com/help... (Note: it takes 2 weeks of deactivation before they actually delete the account). - Otto

Evidently this is a holy war now - Jesse Stay

Expectations are fine but times change, facebook started three years before twitter and the only content they have required to be public is your name, profile photo, gender, list of friends and pages you are a fan of (like). They did it using a very public method that forced *everyone* to review and double check their settings and they told you they were migrating to the more public... more... - Chris Myles

Jesse, I was merely referring to Chris' use of "they did it in a VERY impressive and powerful way", to which you agreed. As in: that alone isn't a freaking criterion for anything. - Alex Schleber

I wonder if Paul regrets making this particular thought public? :P - Carter ♥ JS

Chris, amen - Jesse Stay

Bear, you can either delete or deactivate. Here's the link to delete: https://ssl.facebook.com/help... - Rochelle

Alex, I was giving kudos to Paul.. I'm impressed, it's powerful. I also don't feel my trust has been violated because I kept up with the privacy changes (http://www.eff.org/deeplin...). I'm looking for people who are ready to move forward (http://friendfeed.com/chrismy...).. I remember these exact arguments last year, I'm ready to move on!! - Chris Myles

Jesse: To some people, not using Facebook is like withdrawing from society. - Gabe

Carter, I am glad he did, this needs to be discussed. I just hope he's been working on FB messaging platform, and therefore doesn't have full visibility to what Zuck has cooked up here. The true implications of this likely won't be apparent for another 1-3 years. I really do hope that Paul's/Jesse's et al. best-case-scenario, optimistic view actually comes to pass. But I'm not holding my breath either. - Alex Schleber

exactly Gabe, the "people can just leave" argument is getting pretty naive at this point. See here: http://alexschleber.amplify.com/2010... - Alex Schleber

Gabe, in that case, just be careful what you put online. If you're that paranoid, kill your account. Heck, kill your internet connection. There is no such thing as perfect privacy. - Jesse Stay

Jesse, please stop the "perfect privacy" straw man argument. There is no perfect anything, so does that mean we can't have an opinion? - Alex Schleber

Jesse: Also, I recall from a movie or TV show trailer a few days ago: "You're being paranoid. That's what someone says right before they betray you...". Frankly, it's also a not-so-thinly-veiled insult as well, since you are referring to us per a DSM-IV diagnosable mental disorder criterion. Just saying... - Alex Schleber

Alex, you may have an opinion, but your argument on Facebook doesn't make sense if you think your privacy can never be exposed. Same goes for Google, Gmail, Orkut, Private Twitter accounts, or any other service where privacy is expected. These things are exposed all the time, often without you knowing - that's a fact of life. Don't put it online if you don't want it exposed. All the complaining and opinions in the world won't stop that. - Jesse Stay

Jesse: That's a poor argument. Being exposed by accident or via a bug is different than being exposed by design. I'd prefer to live in a world where private information can be both online and shared and still well-protected by a proper set of controls. You don't need perfection to achieve this goal. However, you do need to stop moving the target around. - Otto

Alex, sorry but to think that nothing will EVER change is also naive.. I think we've all gone a little extreme to make our points. There is nothing wrong with strong opinions and even expectations but there HAS to be a balance. facebook has done a reasonable job considering they have a microscope us their a$$ and not everyone will be happy with their changes. - Chris Myles

CW, come on - so you're offended that your name, gender, city, network, and friends same info are exposed as you browse the web? Nothing else is exposed, unless you opted in. - Jesse Stay

Oh, and the fact that you "liked" it, but that too is opt-in - Jesse Stay

Google has a really good position paper on opt-in vs opt-out http://www.law.ed.ac.uk/ahrc.... (if anyone is interested). - Chris Myles

"dont put it online if you dont want it exposed" - that is both fair and unfair. True - the only 100% privacy is if you never share anything but that's hardly useful. I think people are entitled to feel that a breach of some covenant has happened when something that used to be under our control (who gets to see what) gets changed and taken out of our control, and automatically shared... more... - Iphigenie

Maybe it would help if Fb had a feature that showed the list of people who had access to what information and why. That way I could say "If I click 'Like' on this post, who will be able to tell", and decide right then if it was worth clicking. - Gabe

Jesse, that's simply not true. When I went to the settings page I have a screenshot of here: http://alexschleber.posterous.com/this-is... ALL of those options were CHECKED by default. And FB has hidden this most important "what my friends can propagate about me" setting 2 layers deep... - Alex Schleber

First, kudos for Paul & Facebook insiders who *dialog* publicly about the elephant in the room. BUT, bottom line: Privacy as normative bait & switch and opt-out settings. Apple gets lauded for 'Hardware-Software That Just Works'; if a modicum of evidence existed that FB has the ethos of 'Privacy That Just Works', there would be more support from the tech-competent and Facebook-history aware public (a small, but influential slice of the whole). - Micah

CW, they told you about the changes and even forced you to accept LAST NOV/DEC (see link above). Are you a fan of the site governance page (which announces future changes to get voted on)? If you don't feel comfortable what are you doing using the tool? - Chris Myles

Although I agree with Paul that it should not be that big a deal that he chose to make his profile fully public (with tiny exceptions) to people - that has never been the problem for me, and I found the flexibility of sharing to a list only to be mostly a matter of courtesy (dont bore school friend with technical shares, or the wrong language) rather than privacy (I always treated it as... more... - Iphigenie

Alex, Did you take a screen shot last Nov/Dec? both of those settings were available for your review then http://www.cynicsunlimited.com/2009.... - Chris Myles

And, provincial as it may be, I'm looking to Josh's dramatic reading of this thread. (**Special Mention**: GO TEAM BBQ!) #JoshHaley #DramaticReadingBOD - Micah

that's it, i'm off to chop peppers in farmville ;) - Iphigenie

OK so obviously there has been a HUGE uproar about this last year and again now.. I've had messages from friends on facebook warning of the dangers and facebook has publicly stated they are trending toward the public social norm.. I was in the middle of no where for 5.5 years and I knew what was going on with facebook. We can't second guess and protect everyone.. but messages were... more... - Chris Myles

I'm just going to let Chris fight this for me - he's doing a great job. I'm behind you all the way Chris! :-) (and I totally agree) - Jesse Stay

But yeah - even my Mom asked me about the changes last Nov/Dec - Jesse Stay

Sorry Jesse, I'm on my last legs here. Privacy, expectations, trust and comfort are all VERY personal and people have to make their own choice!! Don't like (trust,respect) it.. leave. Worried everything will become public someday.. don't share private things. Double check your settings, ask questions, read every future dialog/message and assume future features will default to public sharing.. that's what I'm doing (and have always done). Facebook and me.. we're good! - Chris Myles

Chris, I am too - none of this uproar makes sense to me, but I'm losing energy to fight it. As Otto said, the privacy uproar is getting boring. - Jesse Stay

and that is why I am so glad you are not on the Facebook team dealing with Privacy - the fact that you find something that others find important as boring and not worth discussing. The issue boils down to what a reasonable/non-guru user of FB can expect in regard to their privacy and the answer is that they can only expect FB to change things without notice and to continue to make things opt-in that used to be off by default. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Bear, it's not that I don't find it boring - I find the fact that we're repeating ourselves over and over again boring and the fact that people like you keep spreading false information like "you can't delete your account" boring. - Jesse Stay

I wasn't spreading false information, I was stating my opinion and it was corrected. At the time I last looked at my FB, which was the last time they changed privacy defaults, I could not fully delete it. Now I find you can - so for the folks who come to me for help with computer stuff I can point them to that page if they want. Me personally, I live in this bleeding-edge world and know how to deal with it. A lot of the points I raise are proxy items from the folks who look to me for help. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

I thought you got to choose what you enter into Facebook. Phone numbers and addresses and which school you went to etc... Most profiles I have set up for people have been set and forget. Either all closed, friends of friends or open. - Johnny from iPhone

Bear, also, since December, Facebook hasn't changed any previous privacy settings. They've added features since, but your privacy hasn't changed. - Jesse Stay from iPhone

Jesse - the impact of what was left as a default value changed. I say that as a casual user because people are finding me via FB that were not finding me previously via my network and city settings. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Bear, and you still have the option to opt out if you think it's a bigger impact. Everyone was notified 6 months ago exactly what was public and what was private. - Jesse Stay from iPhone

The minimal information exposed really isn't that big an impact though, I don't think. - Jesse Stay from iPhone

again, can you read what i'm saying ... I went into the settings 6 months ago and opted out of a lot of things and now I went back into it and items are now appearing with more options to select than were previously available. So the net change may be giving me more choice but some of the default values were tweaked to a more public view than I expected. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Facebook even sent out an email notifying people - Jesse Stay from iPhone

Jesse, do you think the fact that you are in a part a FB developer (through SocialToo, other?) may taint your point of view here a bit? Are all those people worried about aspects of this (Scoble, Om, various Google developers, etc. etc.), are we all "paranoid"? BTW, I haven't said one thing about account deletion. - Alex Schleber

Jesse I think often forgets that as a FB dev he often sees these changes long before others and has an fuller mental skeleton of what the interactions are than the "normal" user (IMO) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Bear, I deal with the normal user more than I do developer. Most normal users don't care. - Jesse Stay

Jesse, BTW, the settings from 6 months ago (I for one overlooked the "What your friends can share about you through applications and websites" settings, and I am at least semi-savvy on this sort of thing) don't mean much, because ***THEN we didn't know that the entire thing was going to be shared with every possible site out there implementing "Open" Graph with a few copy&pastes.*** If the same stuff was already discoverable through Facebook Connect, then I missed that, ... - Alex Schleber

Jesse - then we inhabit totally different realms of "normal" - by far everyone who I deal with is hating on FB for these changes :) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Alex, yes, you missed that - Jesse Stay

Bear, are those you deal with primarily in Silicon Valley? ;-) - Jesse Stay

Jesse - actually no - I live on the east coast and in a rurally conservative area. as far away from Silicon Valley as my job allows :) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

... AND of course a lot fewer sites implemented FBConnect (because it was harder), showing up on a site required login with FBC there instead of it being automatic as it is now. Etc. - Alex Schleber

Alex, actually, name, location, gender, profile pic were all available without login via FB Connect before - Jesse Stay

Yes, but what about Interests, Religious orientation, etc. etc. ?!? - Alex Schleber

Alex, and tens of thousands of sites were implementing FB Connect as that information was available - Jesse Stay

Alex, that info isn't available as public by default right now - Jesse Stay

"right now" - that's the battle we're all fighting - for people that care about these things, we can't promise that it will remain any certain way - Christopher Galtenberg

And don't forget the raising of the 24-Hour limit on keeping data going away. That is a bit of a change, no? - Alex Schleber

FYI From Nov's update "Information set to “everyone” is publicly available information, may be accessed by everyone on the Internet (including people not logged into Facebook), is subject to indexing by third party search engines, may be associated with you outside of Facebook (such as when you visit other sites on the internet), and may be imported and exported by us and others without... more... - Chris Myles

The whole 24 hour limit thing is just recognition of the de-facto situation anyway. FB never had any real way to enforce that limit or how people treated the data that was received. - Otto

Christopher, Facebook hasn't made any moves to signify that will be changing any time soon. Not sure what you're getting at. - Jesse Stay

(Christopher G) - Jesse Stay

"any time soon" <- that - Christopher Galtenberg

Christopher, you can say the same about any other company that holds your data - still not sure what you're getting at - Jesse Stay

Yes you do - Christopher Galtenberg

Christopher, no I don't (???) - Jesse Stay

I really hope that Zuckerberg turns out to be a benign dictator... - Alex Schleber

Alex, :) me too! - Chris Myles

Wow - Jesse Stay

Re: benign http://www.businessinsider.com/10-reas... - sorry if I'm trolling, just my friend graph can't stop talking about this - Christopher Galtenberg

Look we can't even talk about what has happened, let alone what might. I trust they will give me notice of future changes and no I'm NOT naive. - Chris Myles

Chris, yeah - they haven't violated my trust, yet. - Jesse Stay

Oh great - now Louis Gray shared this on Twitter. Are we going to have to repeat this again? ;-) - Jesse Stay

Christopher, you should read some of the comments on the original post here http://www.rocket.ly/home.... Personally I have no tolerance for overly sensationalized blog posts, I like to make decisions based on facts!! - Chris Myles

Jesse, because you've essentially said you have no trust. (don't put anything online you don't want broadcast). Most FB users were led to believe they *could* trust FB with personal information. - Tinfoil 2.0 from iPhone

LogEx, I haven't said that either. I feel like I can trust Facebook. - Jesse Stay

I read the comments. I'm saying that my FB graph is abuzz about the article, and my friend count is dropping. The article matches the sentiment about FB perfectly. That's what matters, not that point #9 is invalid (it is). - Christopher Galtenberg

If FB allowed for a permanent "opt-out of public data until I say otherwise" that NEVER had to be revised whenever a new feature came along, some of the privacy complaints would be moot. However, this goes against FB's business interest of trying to have it be a more public system(as is alluded to in this thread). - George S.

Looks like it's me, Jesse and Paul :) - Chris Myles

Regardless, a great deal of data is also shared by various FB apps (e.g. when the user gets the dialog requesting that data is shared). This is a backdoor into their "private" data, so to be truly private you'd have to opt-out of many FB apps as well (unless they changed their policies). - George S.

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*sigh* - this is going in a loop - Jesse Stay

Jesse, you said "Don't put it online if you don't want it exposed" in this thread and similar statements in other forums. It's fine if you personally trust FB with your info, particularly since you don't seem to acknowledge that there are valid reasons for people to want and need privacy in their online interactions. But millions of other users don't feel that way, and have been and... more... - Tinfoil 2.0

The fact that there is so much controversy in this thread (and many others like it) are: (1) people want things from Facebook that Facebook no longer delivers; (2) it's difficult to know (particularly for laypeople who don't follow every little move like we all do) what exactly happens with your data and what may happen in the future. - Tinfoil 2.0

LogEx. Can you totally lock down your account. Is it possible? - Johnny from iPhone

LogEx, that was in response to people paranoid about the existing Facebook privacy preferences. If you have a problem with your name, city, profile picture, and network being exposed, best not to put anything online. Nothing has changed from Facebook. - Jesse Stay

Johnny, NO, it is no longer possible. It used to be. - Tinfoil 2.0

Johnny, your name, city, profile picture, network, and friends will always be visible. Everything else (assuming you don't like anything) can be locked down. - Jesse Stay

LogEx, that's only part of the story - you seem to have an agenda - share what I shared if you want to share the whole story. - Jesse Stay

Before November, the only thing required to be public were your Name and Networks. Friend List, Pages, and "Connections" can be very sensitive. People were brought up in Facebook believing that they had a private place if they wished to interact with friends and family. - Tinfoil 2.0

LogEx, that is correct, and they sent you an e-mail notifying you that was changing. That is the only thing that has changed in years. - Jesse Stay

Jesse, my agenda is, and always has been simple: maximize choice for users so that they can be AS public or AS private as they wish. - Tinfoil 2.0

LogEx, Facebook is *all about* choice. Lock 'er down. The only info exposed is what I listed above. Do you really have a problem with that? - Jesse Stay

Try getting as granular as you can with Facebook on Google or Twitter - you can't. - Jesse Stay

Also note that even Twitter private profiles expose more information than what Facebook does by default. - Jesse Stay

Jesse, part of this issue is trust. FB has a reputation problem, which the "only thing that his changed in years" has a lot to do with. It's a very significant change. Additionally, that "granularity" is both a blessing and a curse. Is there a "One Button" privacy feature? Because some people don't WANT granular. - George S.

Google knows remarkably little about me, due to the way their services are architected and due to the tools they provide. And, yes, I do have a problem with Facebook steadily removing privacy choices in Nov/Dec and again in April. People are now forced to share more. You can no longer "lock 'er down". - Tinfoil 2.0

George, one privacy change in 3 years is a pretty good reputation. - Jesse Stay

LogEx, I think you're naive in thinking that Google knows little about you - Jesse Stay

I don't think that logic is meaningful, because it's a pretty fundamental policy change - George S.

George, everyone has had the opportunity to delete their Facebook account if they choose. It's not a whole lot of information they exposed. Also, the entire Facebook population was given the opportunity to debate the change, as Facebook allows for any policy change. A very insignificant amount of people did. - Jesse Stay

FWIW, even before the change there was info, such as your profile pic and name that were exposed to the public - that has always been the case. - Jesse Stay

I'm not being at all naive Jesse. I use multiple Google accounts and have never populated any Google profiles with real world information about myself. I won't bore you with other details about how I manage my relationship with Google. - Tinfoil 2.0

LogEx, you are definitely not the normal user then - Jesse Stay

Also, "It's not a whole lot of information they exposed" - shouldn't that really be for each user to decide? Not all half billion users are privileged white males who don't have to worry about nuances of what might get exposed about their interactions with friends and family (and around the web). - Tinfoil 2.0

LogEx, you're on the web, on a social network that gets indexed by search engines - delete your account if you don't like that. I think it's a rather paranoid move if you're really bothered by that, though. Google and Twitter expose default information about you as well. - Jesse Stay

pain = (user-count * new-feature-impact ^ trust-involved). Everyone for or against any certain social network or policy knows that. Another axiom: The fans of the network in question will always act blinkered; the antagonists will still use the network within 60 minutes. - Christopher Galtenberg

Christopher, you are exactly correct - Jesse Stay

I think this argument isn't really about "default" information. Any service where you identify as a "real" person requires you to share this information. Though it is worth noting that Facebook expects you use your real name, while other services (i.e. Twitter) allow for more anonymity if you so choose. - George S.

George, what is this argument about then? I've lost track. - Jesse Stay

Yes, George S. makes an excellent point. Google and Twitter absolutely do not require your real world identity. Facebook collected hoardes of private real world identity info, THEN declared that much of that was being forced public (or coerced through UI). - Tinfoil 2.0

LogEx, you're sidetracking the fact that your name has been public for quite some time now - Jesse Stay

(goes to look up the default information listed in I'm on Facebook--Now What??? back in 2007) - Jesse Stay

This betrayal of trust shows two things: 1) FB is afraid of losing the real-time search content to Twitter and 2) Zuckerberg has learned *nothing* from the Beacon disaster. - Dave Hodson

Dave, what betrayal of trust? - Jesse Stay

Feels like he's repeating himself --> - Jesse Stay

Jesse: betrayal of trust -- users expect their data to be private. Pulling a fast one on them with new "default" settings that remove privacy setting is a betrayal. - Dave Hodson

Understands why Paul has given up on this conversation --> - Jesse Stay

Because you are not listening to the valid concerns of others. - Tinfoil 2.0

Dave, nothing fast has been pulled - read my comments above - Jesse Stay

Jesse: I have a teenage relative. I went through this person's profile and was shocked what the "suggested" defaults now expose to the world. - Dave Hodson

2 of the key privacy concerns on FB are more about 1) change from default-private to default-public, 2) How your other information is used by 3rd parties (e.g. Apps, etc., like when the app asks to share your info). In #2, most people just blindly "Allow". But they don't really know what they might be sharing, or to whom. - George S.

LogEx, I've heard it all - none of it is making sense. No privacy settings were removed this time around. - Jesse Stay

George, there has *always* been information available as public - Jesse Stay

They absolutely were changed in April via Connections. - Tinfoil 2.0

Jesse, I don't think you're grasping what I'm saying. - George S.

In 2007 they made all profiles on Facebook indexable by Google, to the extent of your name and some other small information (I'll look it up when I get home) - Jesse Stay

From another FF conversation: "The best privacy setting of all is yourself." Only give FB what you want to show up on CNN.com. Which for me is pretty much nothing now. - Christopher Galtenberg

LogEx what was changed? - Jesse Stay

Christopher, I agree with that - Jesse Stay

Jesse - perhaps you don't agree with my thoughts, but at least agree that there is negative sentiment out there about this and FB hasn't done a good job of clarifying changes. - Dave Hodson

Dave, your thoughts are 100% incorrect - it's not that I don't agree. It's that they're completely false. - Jesse Stay

Jesse, see: http://www.eff.org/deeplin... & http://www.eff.org/deeplin... & http://www.eff.org/deeplin... - Tinfoil 2.0

Jesse - wow, that is really funny. I don't know that I've ever been 100% incorrect before. Glad you have an open mind on this topic. - Dave Hodson

LogEx, you were given the opportunity to opt out of connections. If you don't like it, kill it. - Jesse Stay

Right, delete large sections of profile because FB no longer allows you to share them privately. That sounds like a great feature. - Tinfoil 2.0

Dave, you're not listening to me - your information has pretty much always been available as public. When did you first create your Facebook account? - Jesse Stay

Name and Networks have historically been the only things public. - Tinfoil 2.0

LogEx, then delete your Facebook profile if you don't like that. You have plenty of choice. Nothing is being taken away from you. - Jesse Stay

LogEx, you are correct. - Jesse Stay

Jesse, that's what you don't get. The point is that FB has been steadily removing choices. - Tinfoil 2.0

Jesse - I'm listening, I'm just 100% incorrect - Dave Hodson

Dave, exactly - Jesse Stay

Delete your profile = choice? - Christopher Galtenberg

Christopher, yup, that's still choice if you're offended by that little information being shared about you. Are you really *that* reliant on Facebook? - Jesse Stay

FB has become so so insistent at removing choices at the privacy end of the spectrum while boosting choices at the publicity end. To deny that people have at least as much need of privacy as they do of publicity is naive and dangerous. - Tinfoil 2.0

These things are tools - if they're not useful any more, don't use them. - Jesse Stay

LogEx, "*so* insistent" - 2 times in the last 3 years? - Jesse Stay

Sorry, my cut-and-paste typo. - Tinfoil 2.0

We know what you're saying, Jesse. Thanks for representing. And actually, am about to find out how dependent I am/was -- interested to see. - Christopher Galtenberg

The more you apologize for what everyone is trying to tell you is wrong, the more guilty you look. Stop apologizing for Facebook, Jesse. People shared who their real friends were, using their real names, and even tagged pictures of their kids, because they were told it would be safe and private. Now that hundreds of millions of people are locked in, Facebook is forcing its "privacy doesn't exist" model on them. It's fucked up and you know it. - Mr. Gunn

I don't have a problem with the changes in privacy settings (and I'm a lot more paranoid about privacy then Paul is). I DO care about the "pre-approved data sharing" though. I don't want CNN to be able to link the stories I read with my real name because I'm concerned about the potential to link me-as-a-real-person to a profile based on news stories I read. - Nick Lothian

One might be quite happy to walk down the beach with a wife or daughter, knowing that a handful of people might be looking at them lasciviously. Having someone collect pictures of them and a lot of private data under the false pretence of privacy and trust and then start sharing them around is a different thing entirely. The word pimp springs to mind. IMHO of course. - Jan Simmonds

+1 Mr. Gunn. Wow, quite the conversation while I was gone. I agree with @Zee much further up: I miss the old Friendfeed conversation days...FF was never the same after the buy-out shock. "Damn you Zuckerberg for siphoning off the FF team to slave away in the FB salt mines"... - Alex Schleber

See also: Facebook’s Paul Buchheit ***justifies*** increasing openness, less privacy http://social.venturebeat.com/2010... - Alex Schleber

Paul, For starters - both FriendFeed and Twitter have not changed their privacy policy as frequently and as ominously as Facebook has. :( And, I DON'T WANT ALL OF MY FRIENDS TO KNOW WHAT I AM DOING ON THE WEB - GOD DAMN IT. :) - Space Cowboy

Alex, you have an incredible talent for spinning context and slicing and dicing a conversation to *amplify* your point of view. Did you read the post you linked to? It says the exact same thing as the one Paul linked to above.. and there was no justification, just Paul's reasons for opening up his settings. I'm sure he's quite comfortable given his friendfeed history, it doesn't mean you or anyone else has to be!! - Chris Myles

I watch "best of day" emails from FriendFeed every day and this is the first one that got me excited about coming into FriendFeed for more than the past month. Is FriendFeed coming back? This thread shows it has the potential to. - Robert Scoble

Robert, While you're here.. what are your thoughts? - Chris Myles

People realizing that FB is basically a public network now should actually consider the best open public sharing network: this one. - Christopher Galtenberg

Christopher, there is *nothing* better than friendfeed (for me). - Chris Myles

Agreed - feels like a secret that people are yet to wake up to - almost everything good you want to do on the web you can do here (share, save, learn, filter, search, group, like, nudge, chat, dialogue) - Christopher Galtenberg

I even use private groups with *great* success! - Chris Myles

The real issue here, is that it's only us geeks that know there's a real facebook privacy issue OR give a shit. Most "normal" people have no idea their "private" info is wide open or that Zuck's constantly changing the rules of the game. That said, no one's forced to use FB. BTW: I'm 99.9% certain Zuck's gonna get away with this bait & switch bullshit. - Jim Connolly

Oh - and Friendfeed is MASSIVELY better than Facebook. - Jim Connolly

Been on-line since 1989, for someone who wants your information, there is no such thing as private information in a community environment. - Justin Hitt

1UP Jim. - Derrick

Chris, 1) of course I read the post I linked to, and apparently VentureBeat came away with a similar impression, that Paul's forays on this stuff have a tinge of "justifying." Look, it's OK, in the end FB can & will do whatever it wants, it's just that this strange "what privacy issues?" sermonizing is giving me the willies. Too much FB kool-aid already. And there seem to be a lot of other people on this thread who have similar feelings. - Alex Schleber

Justin, there's no such thing as an unstealable car either, but that doesn't invalidate the purpose of door locks. - Micah

... 2) I whole-heartedly agree that FF still rules, even though there has been no development in nearly a year, which is shocking if you think about it. I really wish FB hadn't bought these guys out, they could have done much better work here FASTER. Hey, money is money. After the buy-out, things went all emo on here though...so it hadn't been particularly useful for tech discussions. Nothing wrong with how the remaining folks use it, but that had never been my use case. - Alex Schleber

3) I am very happy to see that despite out differences, we can all still agree on Friendfeed being a superior solution. It's a shame that Google hasn't done a better job with Buzz (why is frankly beyond me), they could have done a FF++ and things would have been gravy... - Alex Schleber

4) BTW Scoble seems to be of two minds about it, he knows what FB is up to (and has argued that pretty much nothing can be done about it anymore), but also likes spying on other people's musical tastes on Pandora, etc. :) He gets "great value from that"... - Alex Schleber

Robert Scoble: FriendFeed is growing slowly. It's not a big-audience site like you're looking for, but it's still a place for great discussions. - Bruce Lewis

Bruce, that may be true but Robert's stated time and time again that he prefers tech-oriented discussions over anything else. Once he couldn't successfully get tech people to commit to FriendFeed, he wandered back to Twitter... or was it Buzz? Maybe it was Facebook. I can't remember. - Akiva

Don't you mean: FF is slowly returning to what it used to be. - Roberto Bonini

And honestly, I'm mostly with him on that. I miss the early days of FriendFeed when it was 80% tech and 20% LOLcats. Now it's 80% drama and 20% LOLcats. - Akiva

The only thing I dislike about Facebook's changes is that they made Friends and Pages public information. When they did that, I had to go and remove about 30% of my Friends and almost all of my Pages. It was quite annoying and I found that I used Facebook much less afterwards, since it was no longer a safe place to communicate with people. But if that's what Zuck wants, so be it. I'll just not use it as much. - Otto

Akiva: And 72% statistics that are made up on the spot (18.15573% of which are unnecessarily precise). - Stephen Mack #TeamMomo from iPhone

LOLs @Stephen. In this debate, statistics mean very little. - Roberto Bonini

At the moment, I really only use FB to a) share web links and things with friends, b) promote my own stuff via Pages and subscribers, and c) party/event tracking. I've blocked all the crappy game things long ago, so those don't bother me so much. Realistically, Facebook is only really useful to me as a venue for people to follow my own feeds (via the Like Pages mechanism). I have 400 odd followers that way. Facebook has become a feed-reader. - Otto

Akiva, if you're seeing too much drama, you're too hesitant to click Hide. - Bruce Lewis

Some REAL good points being made here! - Jim Connolly

Bruce, to know which threads need hiding, I have to see them first. - Akiva

There aren't enough drama posts to make anyone's feed 80% drama by virtue of seeing them once. The only way to have an 80% drama experience here is to let them keep popping back up. - Bruce Lewis from fftogo

Oh. You took my percentages seriously. Probably not a good idea. - Akiva

Joking is fine. I just want to make sure people reading this thread understand that you can get whatever flavor of conversation you want out of FriendFeed, percentage-wise. Absolute quantities are limited, but that can be a good thing. - Bruce Lewis from fftogo

Bruce, you're being Apple to Akiva's DeGeneres. :) - Micah

Micah, that's cool! Tomorrow Akiva is going to get on his show, apologize, and talk at length about what a fan he is of me and things I make. - Bruce Lewis from fftogo

Then you both win. - Micah

Can I high-five Akiva now, or do I have to act mad until after the apology? - Bruce Lewis from fftogo

Robert, I haven't had to mute a thread in a long time - maybe you're right ;-) - Jesse Stay

I have no clue what you people are talking about any longer. - Akiva

me neither Akiva - i just came to post that "i saved a ton of money by switch my car insurance to Geico" ;) (not really, they stink) - Jeff (Team マクダジ )

Akiva, Micah was saying that I took your joke too seriously the way Apple took a DeGeneres joke too seriously. It was a nice way to ask me to lighten up. I complied by jokingly taking his analogy too far. Of course, explaining all this makes the joke 80% less effective. - Bruce Lewis from fftogo

Ah. But it makes me 20% less clueless now. - Akiva

Pay attention. We are talking about BBQ. OMGWTFBBQ. - Laura Norvig

You took his what seriously on the *internet*? - Christopher Galtenberg

For all of you self righteous privacy advocates out there, nobody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to use Facebook! In case you all are not aware, you can choose what info to include in your profile, nobody is forcing you to enter your phone #, etc... You can even use a fake name if you'd like. You can choose what people can see what info, the tools are there to setup your account pretty much any way they want to - Brian from FFHound!

"self righteous privacy advocates" - you couldn't be more illuminating, Brian - Christopher Galtenberg

disrepute and shifty ethics: the FF/FB model of selling out & "professionalism"; this can surely be just more lip service "From Facebook, answering privacy concerns with new settings" http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn... - sofarsoShawn

Paul Buchheit

Justin.tv: The iPhone App - http://blog.justin.tv/justint...

March 23, 2010 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Ashwin Bharambe, Private Sanjeev, Caleb Elston and 3 other people liked this

"From the outset, we were focused on making a full-featured app that didn’t cut any corners. For us, that means two big things. First, every channel on Justin.tv will automatically be available on the iPhone. No need for the broadcaster to use any special software or specific formats. If you have a Justin.tv channel, you’re available on the iPhone immediately. Second, every channel has chat that connects both iPhone viewers and site viewers. And it looks great, you can watch video, read and even type chat all at the same time." - Paul Buchheit from Bookmarklet

Louis Gray

Is the iPad for Dumb People? - http://calebelston.com/is-the-...

February 5, 2010 from Google Reader - Comment - Like - Share

Caleb Elston liked this

Hope it wasn't just *another* iPad post :) - Caleb Elston

Caleb... great post. - Johnny

Mark Rizzn Hopkins

Is the iPad for Dumb People? http://calebelston.com/is-the-...

February 5, 2010 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

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Kol's Fav Feeds - Google Reader

Is the iPad for Dumb People? - http://calebelston.com/is-the-...

February 5, 2010 from louisgray's shared items in... - Comment - Like - Share

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I did not expect to like the iPad. I didn't even expect Apple would create a tablet. The ergonomics of such a device never made sense to me. I couldn't get over the lousy text input methods or the inevitable nuisance of holding it at all times. Plus the idea of navigating Mac OSX with your finger just seemed silly. Then the iPad was demoed, and it all made sense. Apple didn't set out to create a tablet as other companies had in the past, the same way they didn't set out to create a phone the same way every other company had in the past. They set out to fundamentally change the way we interact with our computers. More on the iPad in a bit, but first some background. I used to build computers from parts when I was 12. I would obsess over the most stable motherboards, geek out on the latest nVidia graphics cards, and study CPU benchmarks seeking the best price to performance ratio of AMD and Intel chips. All that was fun, it was a hobby, but it eventually became a chore. Reformatting and...

The Cynical Bastards

rizzn/linkblog> Is the iPad for Dumb People? http://calebelston.com/is-the-...

February 5, 2010 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

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Paul Stamatiou

"[iPad] is for people who don't want to think about their computer anymore" http://calebelston.com/is-the-...

February 5, 2010 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

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Richard Laksana

Is the iPad for dumb people? - http://calebelston.com/is-the-...

February 5, 2010 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

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Sven Olaffson

Is the iPad for dumb people? - http://calebelston.com/is-the-...

February 5, 2010 from Hacker News - Comment - Like - Share

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Comments - Sven Olaffson

Bill Grant

Added my 2 cents... RT @Stammy "[iPad] is for people who don't want to think about their computer anymore" http://calebelston.com/is-the-...

February 5, 2010 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

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Rob Diana

Who is Android's Customer? - http://calebelston.com/who-is-...

January 18, 2010 from Google Reader - Comment - Like - Share

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Chris Miller

TheSocialGeeks Episode 24 uploading now with exclusive annoucements only heard here :-) Are you subscribed?

January 7, 2010 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

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Robert Scoble

@parislemon @louisgray @arrington I'm glad you guys are killing embargoes. They are just ways to ensure everyone writes about your company.

January 6, 2010 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

Caleb Elston, Kol Tregaskes, Anne Haynes and 4 other people liked this

That's one reason. Another is to make sure your code is complete and developers are awake when traffic hits. :) - Louis Gray

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Why are journalists so against entrepreneurs? I don't get the anti-embargo thing. Some times a lot of coverage is a good thing, even if it's repetetive. - Jesse Stay

Jesse: because this is a competitive business. If we always published the same thing as everyone else then you just commodify the news and turn boring and never get a new audience. There has to be a reward for working your ass off, building trust and relationships with companies and executives, and breaking exclusive news once in a while. All this press release regurgitation is just not good for the industry. - Robert Scoble

The entrepreneurs and PR want a commodified press. It's easier for them to deal with. Why? Because they can just push out messages and get them reprinted on 20 blogs. But the press, if they want to build value, MUST fight against commodification pressures. Arrington knows this better than anyone, which is why he plays games back against PR companies. - Robert Scoble

Robert, does commodity really hurt the top blogs though? Each one of them has their own unique audience that still needs to hear the news. Why should I have to subscribe to TechCrunch, and Mashable, and Venturebeat, and Readwriteweb all to get the general tech news? Competition can still occur in the non-embargoed stories and the scoops and exclusives. - Jesse Stay

Also, I think Entrepreneurs need to stand their ground. If someone breaks the embargo, they don't get your stories in the future. If you can't trust a journalist, why continue giving them stuff? I think lack of trust is a huge demotivator - Journalists should have a responsibility as well, and entrepreneurs should stand up for that. - Jesse Stay

Jesse: the thing is that it's a lot harder as the PR industry becomes aligned to find those scoops and exclusives. It was very easy to get scoops and exclusives six years ago, but today? Very very difficult. But, yes, I agree with you. Journalists, if they agree to an embargo, need to stand by their word and it's good they are being outed. But I see them as separate things. - Robert Scoble

I think it does hurt the top blogs, though. For one, there's a LOT more noise in the industry than needs to be and there's a lot of waste that could be spent elsewhere. Today at Google there were something like 60 journalists in one room. Are we going to get 60 different stories? No way. What a waste of resources that could be spent somewhere else. - Robert Scoble

I'm fine if you say ahead of time that you're not going to respect any embargoes (I just won't send mine your way), but if you say you will and then break it, that's poor form and deserves more attention that entrepreneurs and news sources can't trust you as a blogger. (you being bloggers that break embargoes, not you, Scoble) - Jesse Stay

Jesse: I agree with that. - Robert Scoble

Bindu: as a journalist I disagree. If I can tell my readers about a fantastic new idea or new company coming, I will and my readers eat that kind of stuff up. They'll even wait for the servers to get turned on. Heck, look at Apple. They showed us the iPhone six months before it shipped. - Robert Scoble

One strategy I really like is to give one blogger an exclusive, then wait to launch and tip all bloggers that something's launching (with not much more details than that), what the website is, and the time it goes live. Then let them race to be first. It's all about the hype machine :-) Apple does this well. - Jesse Stay

I agree that bloggers and journalists always like to be first. I get a little jealous when Louis Gray gets the exclusives on products due to the relationships he has with some entrepreneurs. ;-) (note that he does that by building relationships, finding the little guy, making them big, and respecting embargoes when asked) - Jesse Stay

Bindu, you did the right thing. It is not your fault. Robert is no longer in the news business. - Louis Gray

Bindu: I'm not saying it's your fault. Just trying to explain that your interests and journalist's interests aren't aligned. - Robert Scoble

I remember when there was an embargo around IT gadgets in my country. Flow of information, gadgets, media, etc. should be free. Same about current topic - I think spreading of information may happen in numerous steps, but no embargo! And, if there is one - don't break it! It will kill you as a blogger or journalist in a really short time, and doesn't worth it. - Peter Smulovics

Louis: I disagree that I'm no longer in the news business, by the way. Everything I do is about news. It's just I don't need to be the first to post anymore to cover the news. Sometimes I cover the news just by retweeting your post. In that case it's still nice to know what the news is so I can put it in context with other stuff. But today I helped break lots of news. Launched a company... more... - Robert Scoble

That's true. The UStream connections were very strong. Good work. - Louis Gray

(says to himself) must stay out of this conversation... must stay out of this conversation - Allen Stern

Damage is already done. The VentureBeat post was highlighted by a popular tech news aggregator as well today, rewarding the behavior. - Louis Gray

I really enjoy reading your discussions! Thank you for sharing! - Anne Haynes

I'm sorry but I thought the whole point of blog embargoes, from the consumer perspective, is to offer the readers multiple perspectives. Not to regurgitate the same press release from one site to the next. - Benin Brown

Lesson learned: when it comes to launch, the most important factor is the quality of the review. One great review will generate a lot more attention than 10 average reviews. So find out who is doing the best written and video reviews in your space, approach them and give them an exclusive in exchange of their time+the highest quality review possible. - Edwin Khodabakchian

Hmm. Mike had a Nexus One for weeks before the official release, as he wrote in his review yesterday. He never let on that he did, nor do I recall that TechCrunch was reporting stuff official that Mike would have known about. On Dec. 12, they were using pictures from another blog rather than one Mike could have shot himself, if he really wasn't respecting an embargo. It talks about... more... - dannysullivan

Chris Miller

KickPost / Coming Soon - http://kickpost.com

January 6, 2010 from Diigo - Comment - Like - Share

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Rob Diana

Quantcast Raises $27.5 Million Series C Round From Cisco And Prior Investors - http://www.techcrunch.com/2010...

January 4, 2010 from Google Reader - Comment - Like - Share

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(jeff)isageek

Foursquare Launches on Palm Pre - http://mashable.com/2010...

January 2, 2010 from Google Reader - Comment - Like - Share

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Jesse Stay

RT @louisgray: Today @Jesse announced @SocialToo is profitable, has more than 50,000 users, and you can send invites. http://blog.socialtoo.com/2010... #imanadvisor

January 1, 2010 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

sofarsoShawn, Susan Beebe, Kol Tregaskes and 11 other people liked this

Jesse - I just also signed up but the web page was mangled by chrome and when I login it doesn't seem like it's working. What do you need from me to help debug? - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

20 more comments

Congrats Jesse! - Johnny from iPhone

Thanks Bear - I'm showing your payment went through. The backend is being redesigned as we speak. Is the site usable right now? - Jesse Stay

hehe - yea, and congrats! :) (thanks johnny) - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Bear, you'll want to also add your e-mail address to your Preferences page (we're going to prompt you soon if that hasn't been entered, also part of the redesign) so you get the daily e-mail. - Jesse Stay

And thanks! (Thanks to Johnny too!) - Jesse Stay

it's usable - yes. I got some bad rendering when I clicked on the "buy now" button at first and also when returned from the paypal. I logged out and logged back in and was entering my email when I noticed all of the "buy now" buttons still in prefs - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

The e-mail feature only applies to the "Send me daily e-mail statistics about new followers and unfollowers" option in your Preferences. Is there a Paypal button there? There should be a checked checkbox now. I'm also considering a "just get everything I need" option to remove the confusion. - Jesse Stay

The whole purchase page is going to be re-done. I agree it's confusing. I hate the design right now (that's because I did it, and focused on functionality). - Jesse Stay

There is a checkbox next to the email feature. What was the visa purchase I just made for? the premium items or are they ala-carte? - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Bear, yes, they are ala-carte - the item you purchased gives you a daily e-mail with all the people that followed you and stopped following you the previous day. There are also some free features (one sec and I'll explain those): - Jesse Stay

ahhhh, then heck, I sure wish there was a single purchase page - now my wife is going to pester me about multiple CC charges to the same service ;) -- no problem, i'll enjoy it now and come back after the redesign and upgrade some more - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

auto-follow those who follow you: this works for free for people that follow you after you join SocialToo forward. If you need to catch up people that followed you before joining, you need to purchase the one-time $5 option. - the same goes for unfollowing those who unfollow you - Jesse Stay

DM filters: you can specify keywords, and if we see DMs that match those (like "mafia", for instance), we can delete those for you, unfollow the user, block the user, and report them to @spam (all automatically) - Jesse Stay

*nod* - the descriptions are very good for each item - I was just confused because I didn't go through the preferences page to get to the purchase page. Hit it direct from the login so I missed (probably in the chrome rendering screw-up) that it was ala-carte. Coolness. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Bear, sorry about that. No problem on waiting - you may not need the other features anyway so don't feel like you need to get everything. It's one reason we do a la carte. - Jesse Stay

My favorite free feature (we may charge for this in the future or add it to a premium plan, just forewarning): DM E-mails - turn off Twitter's DM e-mails, and just enable them in SocialToo and we'll detect DMs and send them to you with much more info than Twitter provides. In addition, we automatically delete all phishing DMs that we detect and you never, ever receive them if you've signed up for the DM e-mails. - Jesse Stay

no worries -- I just wanted to get the "who followed you" email feature enabled. I was doing it myself but yours is better implemented. Yea, I don't get any auto-dm spam as I am very careful about who I follow. - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

Bear, as soon as I get all the redesign stuff worked out I'll be focusing again on functionality and I've got some really cool ideas for that e-mail and stats that I'm expecting to do. Stay tuned for that. - Jesse Stay

The auto-dm filters aren't just for blocking auto-dm spam. They work for real DMs that could be malicious as well. The phishing e-mails, for instance, which often get sent by compromised friends' accounts. Also, with the e-mails, you can respond to the e-mail via e-mail and it gets sent as a DM back to the individual. (did I mention that was my favorite feature?) :-) - Jesse Stay

Congrats, Jesse! I'll have to check it out again. - Mary B: #TeamMonique

Congrats!! ... Guess I should really try it now (He ducks) - Charlie Anzman

Louis Gray

Today @Jesse announced @SocialToo is profitable, has more than 50,000 users, and you can send invites. http://blog.socialtoo.com/2010... #imanadvisor

January 1, 2010 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

sofarsoShawn, EricaJoy, Hunter Clarke and 18 other people liked this

congrats jesse! - Caleb Elston

10 more comments

Well done, Jesse - great news! - WoH: Professor MOTHRA

Thanks guys! - Jesse Stay

hey will get involved Jesse - Thomas Power

paid the $20 ended up here: - Thomas Power

Welcome to SocialToo on Facebook! Here are some tools we think you'll like: SocialToo can help you become a Social Network power user, learning more about the relationships you build on the Social Networks you belong to. Be sure to check out these tools and then venture on to SocialToo.com to get even more! * SocialToo Status - With the click of a few checkboxes you can send your status... more... - Thomas Power

wasn't sure what to do after this, sorry? - Thomas Power

Thomas, the $20 gets you the daily e-mail. You'll want to be sure you enter your e-mail address now on your Preferences page and tonight you'll get an e-mail with who followed you and stopped following you the previous day. - Jesse Stay

Thank you, btw, Thomas! - Jesse Stay

Actually, that message shouldn't have happened. I'll look into that. You're accessing it from http://socialtoo.com right? - Jesse Stay

I need to explore SocialToo's Facebook options. I really enjoy the nightly Twitter report. Well worth the $20 to me. - Mark Davidson from BuddyFeed

Thanks Mark - a lot more features for Facebook should come out this year on SocialToo. Stay tuned... - Jesse Stay

Bill Moorier

Wrong Correctness - http://www.artima.com/weblogs...

January 2, 2010 from Facebook - Comment - Like - Share

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Atul Arora

New Blog Post: 2010 Computing: Lighter, Faster, Mobile and Connected. http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r... /via @louisgray tip @techmeme

January 1, 2010 from Twitter - Comment - Like - Share

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Louis Gray

OAuth is becoming a cautionary tale - http://www.scripting.com/stories...

January 1, 2010 from Google Reader - Comment - Like - Share

SAM and Caleb Elston liked this

I disagree with what Dave is saying here. OAuth needs Facebook and others to adopt it in order to survive. It wasn't going in the right direction, so those companies took charge. Dave Recordon, if you read in the comments, made it clear they had full intentions to wrap this back into OAuth 2.0 if it makes sense. The fact is, calling it another revision of OAuth helps me, the end user,... more... - Jesse Stay

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See also: http://commented.org/blog.... Keep in mind I am not claiming any expertise here. I am sharing because it is interesting and relevant. This is also why I wrote about OAuth and WRAP on Thanksgiving. http://blog.louisgray.com/2009... - Louis Gray

It should also be noted that Eran is not even on Twitter, despite Twitter being perhaps the biggest supporter of the old format. Note that Yahoo, perhaps the biggest implementor of OAuth, is also in on the WRAP proposal. :-) I think Eran is just bitter. Understandably so considering a lot of the original spec was his effort. - Jesse Stay

Write it up, Mr. Stay! Sounds like a job for a guest post! - Louis Gray

Perhaps soon, and I'll do it as a guest post if you like :-) I've got to get my new years posts out the door first. And before that I've got to get a couple SocialToo features out the door. :-) - Jesse Stay

Louis Gray

Goodbye Aol. Hello Entrepreneurship In 2010! - http://www.somewhatfrank.com/2010...

January 1, 2010 from Google Reader - Comment - Like - Share

Caleb Elston liked this

Paul Buchheit

The Master, The Expert, The Programmer - http://zedshaw.com/essays...

December 27, 2009 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

Private Sanjeev, Piaw Na, Karthick R and 58 other people liked this

"What I notice is that my peers are progressing to more and more complicated and convoluted designs. They are impressed with the flashiest APIs, the biggest buzzwords, and the most intricate of useless features. They are more than happy to write endless unit tests to test their endless refactoring all the while claiming that they follow XP’s “the simplest thing that works” mantra. I’ve actually seen a guy take a single class that did nothing more than encapsulate the addition of two strings, and somehow “refactor” it to be four classes and two interfaces. How is this improving things? How can more somehow equal simpler? This should never be the case. These are the actions of an expert. These experts are very smart, capable, and skilled, but they are too busy impressing everyone to realize that their actions are only making things worse for themselves. In the end all of their impressive designs are doing nothing but making more work for themselves and everyone around them. It’s as if... more... - Paul Buchheit from Bookmarklet

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This applies to experts in any field. - WoH: Professor MOTHRA

It takes smart people to make complicated things simple. - imabonehead

Is it possible he's talking about Java programmers? - Gabe

i really liked this post (it resonated with me) until the end, at which point i felt alienated. - Neha Narula

What alienated you, Neha? To me, it seemed valid enough but a bit overwrought and trite. I know plenty of experienced, skilled working programmers who value just-get-it-done simplicity -- the "professional master" doesn't seem that elusive. - ⓞnor from Android

I'm a big fan of keeping it simple, but some problems do require a thorough approach. - Andrew C (✓)

"In contrast there are masters in the martial arts who learned their art as a means of survival and became masters in a realistic and hostile environment. We don't have anyone like this in the programming profession, " ... what about Carmack and Abrash & co? - Andrew C (✓)

BTW, I dunno if this is what put Neha off, but it almost sounds like Shaw wants to deny the reality of a nice O(n log n) solution beating out an O(n^2) solution (assuming small k, whatever) on a problem of decent size. - Andrew C (✓)

I mean, the stories of the martial arts masters may involve simple-looking moves, but they are also (in the stories) _perfectly_ executed, the product of careful observation of one's opponent and expert timing and precise angles. You might be able to pare down a simple linked list to the bare essentials, but I don't think it's quite analogous to not using a more complex structure _where appropriate_. - Andrew C (✓)

Nice... "The main thing I noticed about the experts I’ve encountered is they are into impressing you with their abilities. They are usually incredibly good, but their need for recognition gets in the way of mastery. Everything they do is an attempt to prove themselves and in order to do this they must perform like an actor on stage. There’s nothing wrong with this, and I don’t think the... more... - Ken Sheppardson

Andrew: Maybe the point was that an Expert would say "Aha! You need to keep these items in order, so a self-balancing tree is the perfect solution.", while a Master would say "Ah, but you never have more than 5 items, so a linked-list will always be faster!" - Gabe

this part, so much guy/son stuff! i dislike superfluous interfaces as much as anybody else: “There was this guy I worked with who once optimized a complicated red- black tree getting 300% performance boost. I was baffled and ask, 'How’d you do that? That’s impossible.’ To which he responded…” “'That’s my linked list my son.’” - Neha Narula

This is the kind of crap that gives java such a bad image. It used to be that people used it for what it was -- a simple OO language with garbage collection and a fast VM. Now you have architecture astronauts going off the deep end and making everyone assume the language has to be that way. I believe this disease stems from people who focus more on the process than on the product of their work. That's a recipe for disaster in my book. - Joel Webber from BuddyFeed

Neha: So lt's the fact that the language is male? - ⓞnor from Android

The impulse is good, but people have such different senses of what is simple, what has quality, what flows with the Tao. It's like beauty that way. What the story doesn't say is the 300% performance boost was on a limited test data set, in the real world it performed 3x worse and all the complexity had a reason that made sense once you "know." :-) - Todd Hoff

Complexity that's "there for a reason" is the worst kind. But who even talks about red-black trees vs linked lists? TreeMap vs LinkedList isn't the issue, interface swaddling and hyperfine dependency injection is the issue. Thing is, fights are decisively won, but code maintainability is much harder to measure, and even the importance of performance can be disputed. - ⓞnor from Android

I find it funny how the article, while praising simple approach, suffers from superfluity of language. - andrei_c

egnor: unnecessarily so. - Neha Narula

Neha, I thought the final "That's my linked list my son" was to make clear the parallel with the earlier quote "That was my foot my son" from Mestre Bimba. - Ruchira S. Datta

Todd: Imagine the situation where you are storing data for the US Census, and need to keep track of the people in a household by age. Since it's sorted and unbounded (there's no maximum number of children a family can have), you can easily think that a nice O(n lg n) algorithm that keeps a balanced binary tree is the right way to go. However, if you bother to look at the data, you'd see... more... - Gabe

I wish I could "Like" this article again :) - scott willeke

might have created a "MEGA-liked" button:) - alex melnikov

It's a great analogy, but in reality, the martial arts stuff is mythology. Wing Chun proponents often talk about simplicity of the art, but they'd get their butts kicked in a sloppy street fight because invariably, most real world fights are messy, quickly go to the ground, and result in grappling and choking and eye gouging. Bullshido has lots of examples of this. The 80 year old guy... more... - Ray Cromwell

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