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Cameron Neylon › Comments

"although I found the paper on a .org website, the fact that it is also in PubMed gives the published paper more authority" Discuss among yourselves.
I'm totally overthinking it, but I'm not certain it's a wrong statement. We do believe that the things in databases are quality, right? A database source gives an item more claim, yes? I think it's bugging me because it's not actually true? Or is it? (she says as she chases her tail....) - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
It's a correlation/causation fallacy. It's not more authoritative because it's in PubMed; it's in PubMed because it's more authoritative. (Or actually it's in PubMed because it's in [journal] because it was judged by hopefully authoritative people to be of sufficient quality/importance.) - Deborah Fitchett
okay, so, the problem is it doesn't tell you very much. there are lame things in PubMed. in itself, being in PubMed doesn't really tell you anything about the credibility, relevance, or authority of the source. so, it doesn't hurt her case, but it doesn't help it either. - maʀtha
also, in the age of OA, I'm uncomfortable with claims that a source is somehow more credible because it is owned by the library or in a database we pay buckets of money for - maʀtha
Ah, Martha's just clarified for me what was bugging me about what I just said. That is: *some things* are in PubMed because they're more authoritative. Other things are in PubMed for other reasons. From this end of it we don't know which things are in for which reasons, and that makes it hard to assess whether it's authoritative. - Deborah Fitchett
Yeah, authority comes from the creator, not the database. There are white supremacist rags in Academic Search Premier, and there are top notch works produced by Orgs. - lris
Yep. - maʀtha
Isn't mayo an org? - Christina Pikas from iPhone
You're right! I thought it was .com. - maʀtha
Exactly. So, it feels right (most folks do this, even if unconsciously)), but it isn't actually right. For students learning to identify authority, we practically force feed them that stuff in databases is the good stuff, right? But we don;t do it explicitly, so we leave the ins and outs of the details unsaid. (student isn't being graded down for this, I posted it here because it really struck me as identifying something) - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
We do? I don't think I know anyone who teaches that databases are de facto full of good stuff. - lris
The databases are a tool, just like search engines are a tool, and print indexes were a tool. There is nothing automagical about them that makes their content inherently better. I am constantly telling students, "It really is okay to use the Google. Here is how it can be helpful." Maybe there are instructors who tell students that the most important thing, and the only important thing... more... - maʀtha
Here are some more important questions: What is the source? How was it created, by whom, and for what purpose? In what culture does it exist? Can you tell how it fits into the larger universe of knowledge on this subject? and so forth - maʀtha
I think we imply it when we push the databases. I didn;t say we teach it. And this was a poor attempt to apply a lot of evluation criteria, but this one they pulled out of the air. We may as individuals take a different tact, but I think librarians, in general, send this message. (and especially at MPOW, where most folks go their middle years without seeing a librarian, ever. Profs... more... - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
I think you're conflating search tools and evaluation in ways that I haven't encountered. You can perform certain functions in databases that you can't in other places. And you can get to some content you can't get to other ways. But even with database results we still have to teach evaluation and critical thinking. I often teach google, Wikipedia, and a database, each as a tool with its pros and cons, each needing very similar evaluative skills. - lris
The fundamental problem here is the (on bad days not entirely groundless) belief that requiring students to *think* in this way is an idealistic but fundamentally hopeless goal and that the best we can hope to achieve is to train them to memorise a set of places that are good vs places that are bad and do research by, like a pigeon, pecking the right button to get the rewards of a good grade. - Deborah Fitchett
This assignment was that they search for their topic, and evaluate an item they found there, and also the potential usefulness of government information for their thesis topic. I didn't conflate evaluation and tool; the student evaluated with a criteria that suprisingly included tool, and I started thinking about how that entered into their toolbox. he wasn't explicitly taught it, but I do think he has been implicitly taught it along the way? Or at least, that's the theory I'm considering. - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
This doesn't surprise me at all. PubMed doesn't have a limit for peer-reviewed/scholarly content because the (research, non-editorial) articles largely tend to be peer-reviewed, so it is easy to come up with a correlation to authority. In fact, it's basically used as an advertisement for PubMed, that it doesn't include news/magazine sources. The medical literature employs a different (more nuanced?) scale of evidence than your "typical literature", though, so you have to think beyond peer-review. - Meg VMeg
I have heard librarians say "library databases are better than the free web" which tends to imply "if you use them, you'll always be safe." So yeah, I think in a sense people teach it. - barbara fister
I'm intrigued by the implicit ".org is less authoritative than .com" that seems to underlie the original statement. Am I reading too much into that? - Cameron Neylon
Cameron Neylon
Debt, Pensions and Capitalisation: Funding schol comms innovation -
One of the things that has been bothering me for some time is the question of finding the right governance and finance models for supporting both a core set of scholarly communications infrastructures and shared innovation spaces. In this post I wanted to think about how we bridge the funding gap from promising pilot to community infrastructure and how debt financing might play a role. - Cameron Neylon
Mr. Gunn
How Excel handles dates is an unmitigated disaster which has caused many undetectable time series analysis errors:
Ouch - Christina Pikas from iPhone
NotLike - constantly caught out by this and the inconsistency within data sets that it causes. - Cameron Neylon
Christina Pikas
anyone else having trouble with cambridge journals this morning?
I just got into one of our perpetual access PDFs. We dropped our current subs though, so I couldn't tell you about recent issues. - Jaclyn aka spamgirl
it might just be me. my coworker was able to get to the pdf. even though i tried is it down for everyone and it was... sigh. - Christina Pikas
I just have problems with CUP in general but I don't think that's what you mean :-) - Cameron Neylon
John Dupuis
RT @bfister: @waltcrawford on The Sting: since OA jls pubbed by Elsevier, Wolters-Kluwer, and SAGE accepted fake article, we should condemn THEM. Okay.
Works for me. - RepoRat
I must admit, I think this essay's considerably better than the Beall one, speaking only as the author. Dunno whether it will get the astonishing readership counts (around 500 as of right now). - Walt Crawford
Naughty, naughty, Springer. - RepoRat
[Just under 900 downloads now; very strong for one week, not quite at Beall levels.] - Walt Crawford
I'm interested to see whether any other scholarly publishing association even comments on the Springer/IEEE issue...full disclosure, PLOS has a seat on OASPA board and the person who holds it reports to me. - Cameron Neylon
Oh, I'm pretty sure they'll shut up. They know they have skeletons in their own closets. If anybody speaks up it'll be NPG, because they have a small stable they're relatively confident in. - RepoRat
Yep, but I would love to see RvN call out STM or AAP on whether they will be doing anything... - Cameron Neylon
That would be amusing! - RepoRat
Walt Crawford
Just what I needed on Friday evening of a, well, tricky week: Peter Suber praised my Bohannon/sting essay on Google+. My week's just gotten much, much better.
No, I don't know how to link to it, or I would. He was commenting on an OATP note on the essay. Google+ has become something of a focal point for OA folk, much like FF for a few hundred library types. - Walt Crawford - Actually similar to Friendfeed. The link is in the "time since post" text. This link works for me anyway. - Cameron Neylon
Cameron: Thanks. For some reason, I wasn't getting a link when I did hover-overs anywhere. Maybe just wasn't paying attention. (Admittedly, if it wasn't for OA/Suber, I might not use G+ at all, and as it is it's infrequent.) - Walt Crawford
Is there work done to quantify how much % wise of each Universities's output is open access and a) by green b) by Gold/Hybrid ?
Lots of work. Not a whole lot of great data. We're working on some tools to try and make this easier. We're pretty good on OA publishing and hybrid (within limits) now but repositories are really hard to work with - Cameron Neylon
Harnad et al have done this several different ways - Christina Pikas from iPhone
Thanks starting on open access efforts here, wanting to see how many here already publish open access and maybe benchmark a bit. I guess, I can use the open access filter in Wos as a first cut, but that's obviously limited to what's indexed in there. - aaron
The oa filter is at he jnl level so it misses all gold oa in hybrid journals - Christina Pikas from iPhone
Thanks Christina good to know. - aaron
If you have a list of DOIs or something similar I can run them through what we have - its not near perfect yet but it might give you an idea... - Cameron Neylon
John Dupuis
RT @jenny_molloy: ACS places doi-like spider traps in page HTML. Clicking=instant institution IP-blocking. Astonishing. Blog: #ACSgate
oh FFS - jambina
Oddly, the spider trap code seems to be on the abstract page only, not the full text html. ( - John Dupuis
Actually not just institution - I've managed to block access at my home IP address to the whole domain - Cameron Neylon
Mr. Gunn
Holdren has a progress update on OSTP public access policy implementation: (PDF) 23 agencies submitted
but it doesn't really say anything, unfortunately. - Christina Pikas
Oh it says quite a just need to read between the lines. Particularly note the narrative 'driven by public interest'...'support from congress...' While it doesn't tell us *which* agencies are proposing what routes the call out for PMC is significant, and the 'public-private partnership' is code for CHORUS (probably DOE). Also that statement 'reviewed for consistency and compliance' means that they've taken a moderately tough line on the requirements. Lots of good signs in there... - Cameron Neylon
Codsignal: A graduate of mine has run into a spot of professional bother in the Baltimore area and could use moral support, professional connections locally, and (possibly) crash space. Anybody BaltoWashish around here who might be willing to lend a hand?
I can be some support repo. they can call my google voice number to get a hold of me. (it is in my twitter profile0 - ♫Jorge Covert, Trainer♫
thank you! - RepoRat
I'll do what I can. dm for phone number if needd. - Christina Pikas
I'm sure other people are better placed but I know folks who know folks... - Cameron Neylon
Cameron Neylon
Dear LSW - If there were a book entitled "Open Access in Practice: An implementation guide for institutions" would this be a thing that would pique your interest? If you imagine such a resource what would it have in it? Who would you want to have contributed to it?
I'd get in touch with Emily Drabinski, a librarian at Long Island University, who has a great story to tell about how she took a closed access journal that she was on the board for--Radical Teacher--and helped turn it into an open access journal. I'd also want to hear from electronic resources librarians that have thought long and hard about how to optimize access to OA materials as part of their library's offerings. - Stephen Francoeur
I'd also want to hear from someone who helped rewrite tenure and promotion documentation for a department so that OA efforts were recognized. - Stephen Francoeur
Maybe also a chapter about someone's experiences taking older toll access journal articles they'd published, tracking down the licenses, and figuring out what they could upload to an IR. - Stephen Francoeur
David Parry could be interesting. He got OA Tenure in communications. I interviewed him last fall: - Hedgehog
Answers to the question of how libraries are funding support for open access in the changing and evolving models currently in play. - Jenica from iPhone
I'm interested in the users of OA material - WHY are we so concerned about Open Access? My answer is so that more folks can see the stuff - reporters at tiny papers (or those without librarians, or without access to $ databases), interested lay people, independent researchers without access to a library / Interlibrary Loan. I feel like the audience for OA is implied but not explicitly mentioned. - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
Development of policies at an institution that support open: open articles, open data, open lab notebooks, etc. How are unis balancing that with IP rights grabbing? What policies in place to support? Ditto what Stephen said on Tenure. - Hedgehog
Interplay between different units on campus - obviously faculty, library but also Vice Chancellor for Research type offices which are going to have heavy compliance issues to face with coming OSTP directive implementations. - Sarah
Reporat needs to write a chapter. She just doesn't know it yet. - Joe - Systems Analyst
I would buy this as long as it is less than $139.95. - Joe - Systems Analyst
Does Heather Joseph write chapters? - Joe - Systems Analyst
Also a vote for Walt Crawford and the others mentioned at - Joe - Systems Analyst
Obviously the book would be open access - but you'd have to pay for print. But so far clear that such a thing doesn't exist at the moment. In scoping this I tried to think what was distinct from Peter S and Walt's book and it seemed that the combination of practical implementation, case studies, and an institutional focus worked. - Cameron Neylon
...and in case its not obvious this is what I'm thinking about: - Cameron Neylon
Jill Emery would want to contribute. - Joe - Systems Analyst
Interesting idea. I'm not sure I *would* be a plausible contributor, but I could be wrong. (Having been the recipient of warm attention for having the effrontery to charge for my OA book, I'm *still* a little, um, burned out about that whole thing...) - Walt Crawford
Yes, I think Peter's book is good as an extension of what he did on his website and with SPARC in terms of dispelling myths, explaining concepts, etc. But a practical hand's on book for librarians would be very useful. I think something about how students, including undergraduate students, would benefit from and can be incorporated into OA plans would be helpful. - Freeda B.
Also, I don't know if you have seen this: Jill Emery (mentioned above) is one of the people behind this site. - Freeda B.
A good number of the people in coapi? - Joe - Systems Analyst
Sigh. I'll play devils' advocate. No, I do not think this will be useful. There have been untold numbers of how-to guides. They haven't made a pebble's splash in a pond, because people in power *refuse to give a shit*. When you write a guide that tells them why they have to, let me know. Until then, how-to guides get handed to some schlemiel at the bottom of the hierarchy who is told to go to town -- with zero resources and support. Hey, you have a how-to guide, what else could you possibly need? - RepoRat
Looking at RR's comment and trying to refute it--despite the lack of, you know, being in a library--I have to look at some of my ventures (including commercial ones) and conclude that RR's pretty much on the money here. - Walt Crawford
I hate to say it, but a guide to How To Save Big Bucks and Serve Your Campus Customers Better by Implementing OA might very well do better (that is, be paid attention to), but it would preferably come with a fairly high price tag. And maybe paid webinars. Sorry if that's cynical; I rarely give in to cynicism. - Walt Crawford
One caveat: I do think such a book on OER might actually fly. Open textbooks appears to have legs. - RepoRat
I don't know whether its a difference between UK and US but there is a lot of fairly senior interest in UK institutions in how to shift from we kind of know we need to do something to what actually *is* it. How much of that is words rather than real commitment is a fair question of course. - Cameron Neylon
...but I take the point about targeting. It needs that element of how you will save lots of money... - Cameron Neylon
Cameron, here in Canada as well there's a huge push coming from the funding agencies for OA with not a lot of practical advice for nervous faculty or administrators to grab onto. One thing I'd like to see is a case study of a small society journal that goes OA and both the society and the journal live happily ever after. - John Dupuis
WIth reference to RepoRat's comment but also something I've been thinking about for a while, I think it'd be useful to include information on ways to promote Open Access on a budget of zero and not much more staff-hours. Like being open to buying an Unglue.It book just as we are to buying print books, or including some OA resources in your catalogue, or promoting OA resources to your patrons -- things that can be sold as getting something for nothing/little but at the same time do advance the cause. - Deborah Fitchett
(Plug: me and MfPOW have been running a #FridayFreeStuff hashtag on Twitter, and a couple of other libraries here are also occasional contributors, to promote OA material. Not the best hashtag alas because it was named when it was just a regular blogpost so once or twice it's been swamped by some company using to give away actual free stuff. But this is the kind of dead simple, cheap, thing I'm thinking of.) - Deborah Fitchett
also -- *marketing* to faculty & higher-ups in admin about OA. I work with folks who teach marketing, so I think it's useful - but So Many do not think it's useful - but it's part of the problem. We don't know how to promote this to faculty or even higher-ups in libraries/admin. To get at RR's point about the Joe Schmo at the bottom of the library who gets the book & writes a report. But maybe not. - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
Deborah, the correct answer to "how do we do that" is "you don't." As for marketing, talk about things there have been how-tos on for a decade. Cameron, what I think would actually fly in the US is a *compliance manual for OSTP mandates* once those actually happen. Same thing really -- but laser-targeted to a problem People In High Places actually believe they have. - RepoRat
@RR Yeh that's fair. And a lot of what we're seeing in the UK is exactly that. I still think there is value in collecting together a lot of the stuff that already exists. Experience and best practice from different places so that where there is institutional support (and it does exist a few places, even in the US) people don't have to re-invent the wheel. - Cameron Neylon
Well, if you're gonna do that, I'm in for whatever I'm worth. - RepoRat
RepoRat, well, we do have institutional support (from High Places if not always from Jo(e) Researcher, OMG that meeting I just got out of) to do some things here - we just also have a miniscule budget. But there are small things we *can* do - and have done so, to be blunt, "you don't" is simply inaccurate - and additional practical ideas (and even just being able to say "Important Book says we should!") would be useful. - Deborah Fitchett
Don't understand some of the negativity here. I personally and many others I am sure at MPOW would find it useful. That was my issue with the Suber and Crawford books, mostly theory. Okay so maybe the book alone won't change your fate if you happen to be somewhere where nobody cares, but it can't hurt right? I mean it sure would beat yet another book on how to use social media in libraries right? - aaron
There are things you can do, yes. I have seen negligible evidence that no-budget "things you can do" have moved the needle appreciably anywhere. So I'm standing pat on this one. No money, no follow-through, no point. - RepoRat
So Chapter 1: This needs resources and support. - Cameron Neylon
My view is that there are things you can do on your own and with limited resources but that the smart choice to make there is to gather a coalition to make the case for resources and identify potential supporters in senior management. One of the truly striking things about the UK and EU situation is how fast things moved over (haphazardly) prepared ground when individuals like Willetts... more... - Cameron Neylon
Aaron: I think the semi-negativity's mostly from those of us who've been burned--and, I gotta admit, seeing my book called "mostly theory" further suggests that I would have no place in such an effort, since the book was deliberately aimed at practical issues, although admittedly not an OA in Five Easy Steps how-to (which I couldn't possibly write). This stuff is hard. - Walt Crawford
Oh, well, great to hear a bunch of stuff that I've put a bunch of effort into dismissed as "no point". Okay, I probably agree that if there's no follow-through there's little (but not no) point, but that doesn't follow from "no money". Doing small things can be a way to get confidence and support to *get* the follow-through. And maybe it depends who your audience is: if the audience is... more... - Deborah Fitchett
Yeah, I hear you, and I'm sorry. I don't always know where the line is between warning people away from bashing their heads against walls that are not gonna fall down and actually being that wall. It just hurts my heart to see people trying so hard in the face of such stupid restrictions and out-of-control expectations and -- noting own bias here -- I really want to see more of these people refusing to be heroes, instead downing tools and saying "Respect and appropriate support or GTFO." - RepoRat
Maybe I should clarify: I am NOT NOT NOT suggesting that Cameron give up on this effort. Not at all. I'm only saying (a) it's hard and (b) I don't think I would personally have anything to contribute. Nor am I dismissing anybody's local efforts as pointless. - Walt Crawford
Yeah, and I do myself vacillate wildly between the "Let's just stop making bricks until they give us straw" approach and the "Ooh, a customer, how much help can I give them before they flee in terror?" approach. It's probably that for my own sanity if I can't do something big then I have to at least do something small otherwise I get distinctly miserable. But you're right, very important not to encourage people to bash heads against brick walls if it doesn't actually provide them any salutory benefits. - Deborah Fitchett
@Walt No probs whatsoever. Doing this would likely cost significant $ so am looking to identify a) whether its useful and b) what the pitfalls are up front. Criticism is useful. - Cameron Neylon
Thanks, Deborah. I think what distinguishes your situation from the ones that really piss me off is that pretty much everything is wing-and-a-prayer where you are; this isn't any different. Whereas it's places that HAVE staff and HAVE resources and just refuse to use them toward these ends where I'm all NO COME ON this is ridic. - RepoRat
Walt: Sorry if I offended. I view both your book and Suber's as books that clarified conceptual issues, this new proposed book is on case studies I believe. As for "smashing heads in brick walls"..I seeing the words "Zero support and resources" and "some schlemiel at the bottom of the hierarchy". Are we talking about the lone coordinator problem where the library hires this new... more... - aaron
Mostly the former, Aaron (though there are other ways to abandon people), but the phenomenon tends to be connected to lack of support in high places. - RepoRat
So what if the initiative was open with big fanfare, and perceived as "glamorous" , with tons of manpower assigned to it and not only that but perceived "High flyers" assigned to lead/support etc. Would that have a fighting chance? It's still early days here of course..... - aaron
RR: Oh yeah, if an organisation has money and/or staff then it darn well ought to do something with it. I just keep forgetting that such places actually exist. :-) - Deborah Fitchett
It's hard to keep up the fight - i've abandoned any OA efforts at MPOW because we have no staff and there really was so little interest... instead i have to direct my efforts at keeping us employed and being entrepreneurial about getting reference work around the lab. - Christina Pikas
Thanks everyone for your thoughts. There's a lot of rich and useful stuff here on targeting, effectiveness and messages that need sending. My inclination is to go ahead and take a shot at this, but think hard about the way it needs to speak usefully to senior management, local management, and foot soldiers on the ground. Those kinds of questions are supposed to be picked up and addressed as part of the sprint methodology but this has been really helpful in avoiding some potential black holes. - Cameron Neylon
Go for it. If you don't, someone else will... and you'll do a better job. ETA: I think a good model for this, one you may actually have read already, is the Library Publishing Toolkit, - RepoRat
What RR sez, on both counts. (As it happens, I *own* a print copy of the Library Publishing Toolkit...for which I wrote the foreword, "Makerspaces for the Mind." An impressive project.) - Walt Crawford
Sidenote: the makerspaces of the mind concept dovetails with what Mita and Barbara said in their respective keynotes at LibTech - maʀtha
I finally met @jambina today. She's a real person, as it turns out.
NFW - Meg VMeg
W! - Marie
W! - Marie
I can confirm that there was a real person I met who claimed to me @jambina - of course she was operating under a pseudonym of some sort so it took me a while to figure out - Cameron Neylon
I SAW THE MEETING. IT HAPPENED. And it was beautiful. - Holly's favorite Anna
And she drinks Budweiser! - Steven M. Cohen
only with you, Steven. - jambina
Pinch her to make sure she is real Marie. - ♫Jorge Covert, Trainer♫
Fuck that shit. PBR! - Joe - Systems Analyst
Cameron Neylon
Does Open Refine always choke when there are a moderately large number of text facets (~1000) or am I doing something wrong...
Text facets? I've done many more rows of data than that with no issues. Not that many columns though - Christina Pikas from iPhone
Nah, this is only four columns but trying to do things like removing 'The' seems to take forever. And a minor edit on a facet (even when there is only one example) can take 20s to recover from. Wierd. - Cameron Neylon
Only 2000 records to. Just selecting one out of a text facet can take ages to update... - Cameron Neylon
It's been crazy slow and then crashed almost every time I try to do anything with it, but I assumed that was some pleasant quirk on my computer's part. - Meg VMeg
can we blame it on java? i've never found it to be slow (not sure it even uses java, but i blame everything on java) - Christina Pikas
Always blame everything on Java. I did do a manual increase of memory but that didn't seem to help. I think it is some wierd memory issue I suspect, but I've never had problems before so this is frustrating. - Cameron Neylon
Cameron Neylon
The entire future history of scholarly communications has already been dissected and discussed on Friendfeed. Unfortunately the search function doesn't work so future generations of developers are fated to repeat all of those mistakes. Discuss.
The above is just a restatement of who does and doesn't get into the history books. Discuss. *g* - RepoRat
Yes, well welcome to being ahead of your time...I can't help but feel I may have said that to you circa 2009 anyway... - Cameron Neylon
Search works intermittently, and it search intermittent time periods. A recent search would find recent things, then items from 2011 and earlier. - Joe - Systems Analyst
I know. Once search works, I will print out ALL of friendfeed. - Joe - Systems Analyst
Cameron Neylon
I don't suppose anyone kept a list circa 2005-2010 of all the sites where people were supposed to be commenting on papers?
would help? #ProbablyNot - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
I hate to cite G.McKiernan, but he has kept track of alternative publication systems in some of his 20+ blogger blogs. Cameron, if you have not heard of or had gotten email from G.McK, you are lucky. For example, and other blog posts from 2007-2010. or or... more... - Joe - Systems Analyst
Well probably all the conversations are actually here in the Friendfeed archives if search actually worked... - Cameron Neylon
Yes, I've had some of those emails from time to time but not for many years. Nor from A. Plutonium in a very long time for that matter... - Cameron Neylon
(Good heavens, he really does have that many blogs) - maʀtha
...and they are all just as colourful... - Cameron Neylon
Help me design the most outrageously expansive list of must-dos for academic libraries ever. "What every academic library MUST DO" that you know is off the rails, but sounds superficially plausible. GO.
(As usual, this is for an LJ column I am meditating. If I want to use your contribution, I'll ask first and follow your desires as far as credit.) - RepoRat
3D printers! Makerspaces! Hackathons! - John Dupuis
Create a learning commons with study rooms with an iPad-run reservation system. - laura x
Must have an active and interactive presence on every single social networking platform. - copystar
Must evaluate every student against every information literacy competency - copystar
Have a reference desk that looks more like ... well I don't know what, but not like a reference desk. Also must eliminate the reference desk, AND must staff the desk with students, not librarians. Preferably young, hot students. - Catherine Pellegrino
Roving reference, especially 24x7 in dorms. - Jaclyn aka spamgirl
Must have collection development skills that *include* the assessment of existing and new electronic resources not just buying books. - Galadriel C.
Ouch, Galadriel. - Jaclyn aka spamgirl
Must archive every data set produced by every faculty member, student, staff, or person otherwise involved with the campus. - Regular Amanda
Must provide personalized, 24/7 reference service to all undergraduates. - Regular Amanda
Must subscribe to every journal and database needed by everyone on campus while keeping materials-budget inflation to no more than the prevailing inflation rate. - RepoRat
Must acquire every print copy of written work by faculty even if they decide to publish their work in a $400+ anthology. Also, the library must pay $$$ for the author's rights to publish the same work in their repository. - copystar
Must have a librarian embedded in every course. - Catherine Pellegrino
must have a search interface that looks like google, goes thru all library resources, and brings back the five things perfect for the professor's research, the phds thesis, and/or the undergrads paper, without being told audience - Hedgehog from Android
Gamification of everything - Hedgehog from Android
Get all of the big deals, and might have to cancel the small non-profit publishers to keep the big deals. - Joe - Systems Analyst
MUST provide travel to higher level administrators to many, many conferences. - Joe - Systems Analyst
Must keep all print journals to appease That One Guy on the faculty. - Steele Lawman
Must have converted their entire ILS to run on linked data. (Gimme more tech-services stuff if ya got it. Access services, too.) - RepoRat
Must allow faculty to check materials out for unlimited periods of time. - Steele Lawman
Must own enough copies of all required textbooks so no one actually has to buy one. - Hedgehog from Android
Must have both print and electronic for every book & journal. - Jaclyn aka spamgirl
Must have a space that is inspiring but not intimidating, welcoming but not mall-like, with quiet spaces and group study spaces that are well-marked but multi-purpose. Include as many non-library services for students in this space without sacrificing either study space or stacks. - Steele Lawman
every department on campus must have their own librarian (that is, a unique librarian for every department) - ellbeecee
(add "embedded" to the above for Buzzword Compliance *g*) - RepoRat
Must be able to perfectly manage holdings information for online resources so that no user is ever put off by incorrect info on any of the 150,000 different titles we have full text access to. - Stephen Francoeur
Free printing for all users. - ellbeecee
Including color printing, 3D printing, poster printing, and plotter printing. - RepoRat
Free lunch for everybody for life. Or just faculty. - Rachel Walden
Technology support for any type of device users may have. - ellbeecee
Separate, adequately-sized areas for quiet study, social study, and group study; all three study-space types must be further divided into undergraduate, graduate, and faculty areas. - RepoRat
Free immediate one-on-one support for all patrons and all projects in the following areas: digitization, GIS, digital humanities, research-data management (in all disciplines), journal publishing (including editing and production), MOOCs, copyright management (including copyright-status searches), patent management, metadata creation, licensing for text-mining, research statistics, grantwriting... - RepoRat
Individual temperature controls for study spaces, i.e., each group/individual study room has its own thermostat. - ellbeecee
Provide unlimited streaming of all the new hot movie releases. - Marie
Provide Advanced Forelock Tugging and 'Just Do My Friggin' Research' services - Pete
All books available in English (or at least instantaneous, free translation services) - Meg VMeg
Must have accurate usage data for every database since the beginning of time. - Joe - Systems Analyst
Must seamlessly integrate all subject databases, catalogue, institutional repository, electronic art/archives collections, subject guides, university expertise management system, university datasets register, etc etc, into a single user-friendly discovery layer. - Deborah Fitchett
Well, for what it is worth - here's ACRL's answer to the question: Though, I think you can just focus on #1 and get a LONG WAY "Libraries define, develop, and measure outcomes that contribute to institutional effectiveness and apply findings for purposes of continuous improvement." - Lisa Hinchliffe
Libraries must efficiently provide all information resources needed by their constituency...</depressed-now> - Cameron Neylon
^^^ even if that means abandoning all values to do so. And no whining! - barbara fister
Must have a digital humanities center. Oh wait! nevermind ... - barbara fister
Oh, I forgot! Must be humble at all times. - RepoRat
but it's hard to be humble, when you're perfect in every way ;) - ellbeecee
Must not wear cardigans, buns or glasses. (Currently I have two of the three.) - Deborah Fitchett
Must be highly influential in setting and implementing academic policies, and well respected by the campus community. Must also be unexceptionable and not rock the boat. - Jenica from iPhone
*** dies *** - barbara fister
Must measure & assess everything. In real time. In minute detail. And provide ROI for every activity done, with clear cause and effect stated. - aaron
Implement a card catalog system capable of providing information about books meeting specific keyword filter criteria. And produce a listing of candidate volumes in real time. (I was a college student inthe 70's, so we're talkin' dream material here.) Wait... whut? They do? Since when? Okay... nevermind. - Jkram|ɯɐɹʞſ from Android
Heh - maʀtha
Did anyone mention: provide access to all the things electronically, remotely, to all alumni, local business people, recent prisoners , local school children , students of community colleges... Forever. - Christina Pikas from iPhone
Must provide services allowed by data mining (like amazon "also bought", reviews, etc.) but still completely protect patron privacy. And prevent spamming and manipulating the system, too. - Rebecca Hedreen
Hyper-accurate RFID/GPS on every item so it's location can be pinpointed when it "goes missing." This should also specify when the person who has an item out will bring it back... - Megan loves summer
^Also allow you to email the person (without disclosing their identity to you, of course), to ask when they're going to return it. - ellbeecee
Without privacy violation. - RepoRat
Must eat shit and buy next year's shit at 5-10% markup. - Andy
Hi Mac users: do you have a recommendation for an FTP application that works well on Macs? Thanks!
Transmit. I gave Cyberduck (free) a fair shake, this is years ago mind you, but gave up and put my money on the table for él Transmit. - Micah from FFHound(roid)!
Transmit - Johnny from iPhone
I got used to filezilla on windows and it works just fine for the mac as well - Sir Shuping is just sir
i've used both cyberduck and filezilla. both are good (been a while since i used cyberduck though) - weelibrarian
Transmit for sure. - Steele Lawman
Have never regretted ponying up for Transmit. - RepoRat
Cool, thanks everyone! - Zamms
The last time I switched I started using something with an orca in the logo. I need to look it up. My Mac's at home. EDIT: not a whale, a fish. Fugu. It came bundled with my university alumni account internet software. - Betsy
<whisper>I'm still using Fetch</whisper> *slinks away in shame* - Catherine Pellegrino
I use Filezilla on all platforms. - COMPLICATED MR. NOODLE
I was happy using Fetch, but then I had trouble uploading to my website and Blake couldn't figure it out. I noticed the university's bundle had switched to Fugu, tried it, and that worked fine. - Betsy
I'm using cyberduck quite happily but then I really only use it for updating a WordPress site, nothing terribly serious. - Cameron Neylon
transmit is fine. filezilla (free, doesn't look very mac-like) works fine if you're cross-platform. the ftp program that you get in a command window is fine if you know how to use it. - henry
Exactly what Micah said. - Tinfoil 2.0
Cameron speaks, my whole table nods. #sparc2014
I hope I wasn't just saying wibble wibble wibble... :-) - Cameron Neylon
not at all. though now i really want you to say "wibble wibble wibble" on the mic. - jambina
... and then we'll put a techno beat behind it and release it as a supercut... - RepoRat
YES - jambina
Wish I was there this time around. Glad that they have a somewhat ok video feed, but missing all of the social events... - Joe - Systems Analyst
...only if the video is of the table nodding... - Cameron Neylon
That could work. - RepoRat
Picturing slowmotion bobblehead dolls at the table. - Joe - Systems Analyst
John Dupuis
Collaborate, co-operate, communicate!:
So, uh, OA advocates are like Bill Nye and traditional publishers are like Ken Ham? I can live with that. - John Dupuis
dammit. you're gonna make me read this thing, aren't you? - jambina
;-) - John Dupuis
It really is a shame that Skitch is full of reasonable compromisers only interested in scholarship, while OA is just full of extremists. (Summarizing the echo chamber in that post's comments. Oh, I forgot: It's only an echo chamber if it's not happy with the current state of affairs.) - Walt Crawford
I think the original post is well-written and nicely even-handed, but then the comments just go off the rails. Which seems to miss the point of the original post, no? - Regular Amanda
The trouble with well-written nicely-balanced posts from Big STM Pub (Wiley in this case, not Elsevier) employees is that some of us begin to have a deeply ingrained suspicion of what they mean by OA support. E.g., "we get the same profit margins, but from a different source..." - Walt Crawford
Not Elsevier, Wiley. (Full disclosure: I know the original poster somewhat.) I'm totally behind flagging the *comments* as a tiresome "poor me" view of OA. But, in line with the original post, I'm totally willing to admit that there are some extremist advocates on both sides. - Regular Amanda
I also liked the call for more diversity across the industry, librarian on CHORUS board, publisher on SHARE board, etc. - Regular Amanda
Amanda: Caught that (wrong Alice, wrong publisher) after I wrote my comment, which I've fixed. I do like some of what she says. Maybe if there was a more neutral forum for discussing these issues--which, at one point, Charleston might have been. - Walt Crawford
Yes! I agree, a neutral forum. - Regular Amanda
I find the analogy kind of interesting. Yes, at a certain level maybe it is easier to persuade with a more nuanced argument than for polarized hard core advocates to just lay in to each other. On the other hand, the world isn't 6000 years old. The sun doesn't revolve around the earth. The creationists are just wrong. The age of the earth isn't half-way between 4.5B and 6K. The message *I* take from the analogy is that one side really is on the right side of history and the other isn't. - John Dupuis
It's funny. My post, which is held up as an example of unreasonable criticism was actually a response to what I found to be a quite aggressive statement that "publishers are doing every they can with A2R and Licenses for Europe and CHORUS so stop complaining" - probably written a bit in anger. I guess that makes the argument tho in some ways... - Cameron Neylon
To me there's something amusingly pathetic about all the NO WE'RE THE REASONABLE ONES THEY'RE SCARY SCARY WEIRD MEAN PEOPLE stuff spewing out from the publishing lobby right now. I don't say that to minimize its impact, but... I dunno, I can't help chuckling. - RepoRat
Hello Peer to Peer readers. - Joe - Systems Analyst
<threadjack> Why hasn't anyone used the term "OAholes"? Or did I just coin the term? </threadjack> - Andy
I think you just coined it. It's pretty good! - RepoRat
I aim to contribute in the most indirect and non-viable fashion. :D - Andy
Cameron Neylon
I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that repositories are largely designed to make it as difficult as possible to find out whats in them, and what it actually is...I have 36,000 DOIs and I'd like to know whether they are in a repository...
Yeah, good luck w that, as far as I know. Though I'd love to be wrong! - Heather Piwowar from iPhone
*shrug* yeah, basically. author-supplied metadata, need SQL knowledge and back-end server access to batch-fix anything, no version-spanning identifiers, no agreed-upon version-linking metadata... the scaffolding to make this shit work just isn't there. - RepoRat
NISO is working on the version-linking problem, but, you know, *NISO*... - RepoRat
...and OAI-PMH...[shudder]...well not the standard so much as the way its implemented in apparently 25 subtly different ways, and that's before people start shifting the endpoint without notifying anyone - Cameron Neylon
Version linking problem will likely get solved by Crossref and either UK repo community or SHARE getting itself together. I don't have a problem with either route - lets get DOIs or handls for repository content and then we can set up some sort of global "relates-to/is-a-version-of" service somewhere. People are already gathering that data anyway - just its all over the place. - Cameron Neylon
Can you do title of article matching? I know that won't work in many cases. Maybe 80-95% of the time? - Joe - Systems Analyst
OAI-PMH is shite. It didn't have to be, but that's what happens when you dump something into the world and then abandon it, LAGOZE AND VAN DE SOMPEL. - RepoRat
Title matching is problematic and we essentially have to do it via a pull of the entire repo content as well as essentially no-one currently provides a search API. I can see why people keep building things like CORE and BASE as a way around these problems but...[sigh] - Cameron Neylon
Once I've got some info we can then do fun stuff (we could do more fun stuff if most publishers weren't just as crap at providing good metadata of course but one battle at a time) - Cameron Neylon
when you say nobody provides an API you mean repos? If so, are there any repo platforms that do,and if so are they doing what you need? - Kubke
So eprints and DSpace both surface an OAI-PMH service by default. But they tend to do so in very inconsistent ways. What no-one seems to do (or at least document) is a service by which I can hit a repo with an identifier like a DOI and say "do you have full text for this?" This seems to me rather fundamental to the point of the exercise...really not keen on the idea of downloading the entire catalogue for a few thousand repos... - Cameron Neylon
How's a repo supposed to know? In a self-archiving context, faculty won't put in DOIs for stuff they deposit (even assuming it has one yet, which a pre/postprint often won't). Title/author matching is dicey as hell. - RepoRat
Assuming mediated deposit, that lookup is pretty time-consuming if done manually. There is no service that automates it that I'm aware. - RepoRat
No you're right there isn't. To be honest my problem isn't so much that people don't use OAI-PMH dc:identifier to provide a DOI, but more that there is no way to lookup. I'll live with title/author matching as a starting point but what's really problematic is there's no way to say "here's a bunch of articles, tell me which ones you (think you) have, and tell me of those which you have full text for" - Cameron Neylon
That said, a good deposit path would involve triggering off bibliographic databases, that info would often include enough to determine a DOI. And of course the Crossref API itself is pretty good at matching a freetext citation (authors plus title plus journal). It could be done (and some repos do it) - Cameron Neylon
but whatever would anyone need a repository query API for?!?! The Great Information Scientists didn't build one, so obviously it's not needed! Everybody uses OAI-PMH, so that MUST mean it's the bee's knees!</sarcasm> - RepoRat
(Do not ask me about the NISO conference call where people were shocked, SHOCKED, that I do not think much of OAI-PMH. Just do not ask me about that. But the last sentence in my previous comment was pretty much verbatim from that call.) - RepoRat
Yes. Well. We're likely to be shortly publicising how the best repositories make it straightforward to determine policy compliance and how can figure that out. Never would have thought I'd become a fan of league tables... - Cameron Neylon
Go for it. - RepoRat
Have you played with at all? I could see this helping... but at this early date possibly not much. - RepoRat
barbara fister
We can watch Jenica's Charleston Conference plenary talk now!
"We're professionals. We need to start acting like it." - barbara fister
Deer (and librarians) in the headlights have a short life span. Time to reclaim our rights. - barbara fister
She's gonna tell us. "Respect. We are not supplicants." - barbara fister
Policies that are not alien to our values. - barbara fister
Transparency. Tell people how we spend our money - and reject NDAs. - barbara fister
You'll probably get backup from your higher admin. NDAs are not in the institution's interest. - barbara fister
NDAs pit one library against another. No libraries benefit because you're not in a safe place. Solidarity, bitches. (She didn't say that last bit.) - barbara fister
don't worry, the part where i piss people off -- and which deserves a trigger warning re: domestic abuse -- is nearer the end. - Jenica
Consortia thought libraries were forbidden by SAGE to switch from one to another. Not a free market. - barbara fister
Y'all don't mind if i post my notes here, right? Good talk! - barbara fister
Elsevier tells us what we will subscribe to. Interference in our choices. Problem with ACS package was a high base price that all institutions pay, meaning a small undergrad instituion paid half of what a giant school did. Not fair or appropriate. - barbara fister
Inflationary upticks. They're like bedbugs - infestations that are hard to kill. (that bit is mine, not Jenica's. No bug metaphors.) - barbara fister
Need clear information and models that reflect actual economic forces. Radical? - barbara fister
Why is speech so shocking? We should speak freely. "You said f*ck online once, so we're never going to talk to you again, ever." "I wonder if a man would get that?" Touche. Disagreement in public punished. Puttig it in writing - uh, we'd rather not. "We're allowed to have voices." In public! Unless your job is on the line . . . you're allowe to talk. Don't let anyone silence you. Why are these people in the audience not screaming and cheering? I am. - barbara fister
We keep giving publishers money for big deals, so we get more big deals. Is more actually better? Are consortial deals that don't reflect our needs really helping us? - barbara fister
I may yet have to watch this. (My forthcoming LTR has a "possible solutions" chapter that talks about two kinds of transparency, the first of which should be possible, namely pricing transparency, starting with public institutions in the many states with FOIAs and moving to eventually make NDAs useless.) - Walt Crawford
You're going to sign it. Why are you doing that? - barbara fister
Well worth watching. - barbara fister
(The other kind is probably a pipe dream; you'll have to wait for the LTR for that one. I am proud of this particular project and delighted that it will reach at least 600-700 libraries...since Big Deal and Damage Done has yet to hit the 100 mark.) - Walt Crawford
Stop agreeing to abuse. - barbara fister
Walt, I just wowed friends with stuff from The Big Deal. - barbara fister
Abuse metaphor: Your spouse won't let you talk to your friends, asks you to break the law, reminds you you'll be homeless if you walk away, buys you little presents if you behave. Sounds awful, right? Right. - barbara fister
And it's how this works. - barbara fister
CCC gives a bit of candy, then uses the funds we give them to sue us. Another good metaphor here - helping you with your groceries, then getting a law passed that says you have to pay them to carry your groceries. - barbara fister
Understand the terms of your contracts. Your facebook update can wait. - barbara fister
Speak. Take action. Nobody will solve these problems for us. We have to be agents of action. We are more than purchasers of access. Let's build a new system.It's our job to look out for libraries. We are more than purchasing agents. We're smart, savvy, creative, passionate, dedicated, stubborn. We can be smarter, more powerful - if we choose. - barbara fister
Nobody will offer us power for being nice. - barbara fister
Barbara: Great. (The LTR one is, I think, much stronger. If the editor keeps the analogy I use in the opening chapter, especially...) - Walt Crawford
Brilliant, Jenica - great message, great delivery. The way you frame the controversial abuse metaphor is very well done. Should be eye-opening. - barbara fister
Anyone who says it's inappropriate wasn't paying attention to the lead-up, which absolutely sets the trap for the metaphor. The point isn't that "it's so bad, it's like being abused." It's that "look at what these terms are. Huh. They look strangely familiar . . ." - barbara fister
thanks, Barbara. I do, however, take seriously the criticism that abuse survivors didn't deserve to be blindsided during the opening plenary at a conference about libraries and publishing. That's fair. But I don't have any intention of backing down from the assertion itself. - Jenica
Yes, that's understandable, I guess, but I feel as if many of the people complaining aren't objecting for that reason or are misusing it as a reason. It's silencing, and I'm glad you don't do that. - barbara fister
Also, I love that you're not just blaming publishers/vendors, you're explaining how librarians perpetuate this "way it is" and don't have to. We're supporters of free speech, fairness, and transparency, right? So lets do it. - barbara fister
Cosigned. We can't own their shit; we gotta own ours. - RepoRat
YES. that. right there. We can't demand that we go somewhere else while we blindly follow the same old paths. - Jenica
It's tremendously powerful rhetorically - both the overall approach of "we need to take control of our role in this space" and also the metaphor. It's high risk and it is shocking but that shock lies at the centre of the argument. I'm not sure how you could cut effectively to the core of your argument without hitting a very raw place for those affected - even had you left the connection unspoken. I should say I have no direct experience of such things so this should be read in that light. - Cameron Neylon
Love the hockey question. Where the puck is? Where the puck is the puck? - Joe - Systems Analyst
Sthatcher. - Joe - Systems Analyst
Yeah, he tried round 2 via email, apparently convinced that I just don't UNDERSTAND what I'm talking about, and if i'd only listen to his explanations I'd see how unfair I was being to the poor CCC. I got the same from a grand high muckety muck at Sage. - Jenica
So is Sthatchsplaining a variation on mansplaining? (Not manleysplaining, that's a whole other problem.) - Walt Crawford
I understand that the CCC tries to make it seem like they are a nonprofit co, even though that hasn't been the case for like 30 years, and that they paid for half of the legal costs to sue GSU. They are raking in the money from libraries. - Joe - Systems Analyst
It was also interesting to see that the abuse part of the presentation was pretty small. Others make it seem like that is what the whole presentation was about. Since vendors and publishers hold a monopoly on the content (no one else has the Journal of X), then that itself can lead to a disparity in a relationship. - Joe - Systems Analyst
LSW: awd
COD Signal: how to start this: MPOW's College of business wants to determine their journal's Ranking as part of their ASCSB documentation.
Academy of Business Disciplines Journal. ISSN 2150-1033 - awd
We don't really have access to anythikng which lets me determine impact factor and the form is opaque enouogh I'm not sure what is being asked. Thanks for ideas/process suggestions - awd
Maybe someone else can check me on this, but I don't see that they are indexed in Web of Science, so that "ranking" by ISI Impact Factor is out. Is that what they mean, by "ranking"? - Regular Amanda
it's not in simago or scopus, either (well if it's not in scopus it can't be in scimago, I guess, so duh) - Christina Pikas
you could manually look at how many times it's cited, but it's not going to be complete if it's not indexed anywhere - Christina Pikas
Right, I don't see that it's indexed :\ - awd
I hate to suggest it but try Google Journal Rank? Probably still not good data in Business Studies but it might have something in it. - Cameron Neylon
And if it's not indexed, even if you did some number crunching by hand, I don't know how you could reliably compare and rank with other impact factors unless you calculated the number in exactly the same way. (Dunno why I'm fixated on this "ranking" thing, but that can mean so many things...) - Regular Amanda
Which you can't, because Thomson's exact algorithm is not public. *sigh* - RepoRat
Cameron Neylon
Could someone who has DOAJ full text links in their library indexing or catalogues get in touch?
we have it set up in our ejournals list, not in the catalog though. - Sir Shuping is just sir
we have it turned on in SFX - but I'll bet most libraries do so? - Christina Pikas
What Christina said, I think. (Though it rarely works. Grar.) - Catherine Pellegrino
Yeah, we don't put any electronic-only journals in our OPAC. That's all through our link resolver. - Kirsten
Well I can tell you it aint working at the moment because of a screw up by previous hosting company. Looking to find someone who would have a set of doaj links and what articles they're associated with (and yes, the previous hosting company that pulled out at short notice lost the f&#$ing mapping table...) - Cameron Neylon
So the question is does someone have that mapping (ie article to doaj link) and what would that look like. Then the index could be reconstructed. - Cameron Neylon
Could you see what the discovery providers have? (We have them turned on in Summon, for example, but the linking is through SFX). - Jaclyn aka spamgirl
Sounds like asking someone like SFX is the sensible route - I was just unsure where the information would really lie in the system. - Cameron Neylon
The information is in SFX. Discovery layers use the link resolver to get you to the article, so the discovery layer's index doesn't have the linking. - Kirsten
Serials Solutions has it too. We've got it in our 360 linking service. - Rebecca Hedreen
Thanks all, that's really helpful. - Cameron Neylon
Thanks a lot everybody (and thanks Cameron for sharing the rq for help!). Hopefully we'll be able to piece this together. I do wonder though - does this situation mean that SFX and 360 Link have anywhere between 1 and 1.58 million URL-s which are basically broken? Or did they index the end-point of the redirects that you got if you hit sth like . - Emanuil Tolev
i'm a bit confused with this because I was thinking we didn't have article-level linking for DOAJ. I'm not sure thought. - Christina Pikas
I tried a few PLOS ONE articles through Google Scholar through SFX through DOAJ, and it worked totally fine. - Meg VMeg
Meg, did those links take you to the article level or just the journal level? - Stephen Francoeur
Article. - Meg VMeg
Here's a title that worked for me: "Nutritional Asymmetries Are Related to Division of Labor in a Queenless Ant." Also worked at the article-level when I tried PubMed via SFX via DOAJ, just in case Google is magic. - Meg VMeg
Huh PLOS ONE definitely shouldn't work because we haven't been giving DOAJ article level metadata...wierd...SFX handling them separately? - Cameron Neylon
See? Everything is mysteriously, terrifyingly fine! If it helps at all, for that article, my options via SFX are DOAJ, EBSCOHost Academic Search Complete, ProQuest Central, PubMed Central. - Meg VMeg
I don't think you'd need to give DOAJ article-level metadata. For reference, the article Meg mentions above would link like this:[our base... more... - Kirsten
Do your libraries get blocked by Wiley, ACS etc for excessive downloads? What is the procedure generally for handing that? How fast do you usually get the block lifted?
We have been blocked for excessive downloads when people use EndNote to retrieve too much fulltext at a time. The procedure for us is that we email our licensing team and they deal with it (I am not sure what "deal with it" means, entirely). The block is lifted in a few days, I think? At most? Depending on how long the emailing/dealing with it process takes. - Meg VMeg
we get blocked fairly often by OSA. We determined that it wasn't on our end - something was wrong with their algorithm. eta - the main campus people contact them and they lift it. really, they should just block an ip. - Christina Pikas
Really? This is *common*? The mind boggles really. - Cameron Neylon
Oh yes, it happens all the time. The bigger the school, the more often one is targeted. - DJF from Android
It's common for us, latest case was Wiley. That's right, the whole of Wiley. You can imagine how many questions it generated. - aaron
So throttling the specific IP and raising a query never occurred to anyone? WTF? - Cameron Neylon
I had to talk to a student about this before she downloaded thousands of court cases from Westlaw. (which she ended up not doing, but I didn't want to take a chance) - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
I think from the point of view of vendor etc, they see the ip range via ezproxy is us, they shut us down. :( As we access only via ezproxy (in campus or off) , this kills us dead! - aaron
Yeah, for us, I assumed they could only see an ezproxy IP address, unless it's an on-campus machine. - Meg VMeg
Not recently, as far as I know. MFPOW had it happen with ACS because someone in South America got the login/password of one of our users and was systematically downloading content from ACS via our proxy, but they notified us when they shut it down. I think it has happened with my current POW, but it's been long enough I don't remember the details beyond having IT block that account... more... - Holly's favorite Anna
@Aaron - my labs external traffic goes through just a handful of IPs,too. - Christina Pikas from iPhone
at least once a month this happens - jambina
John Dupuis
Elsevier's response to the Canadian Tri-Agency Draft OA policy:
We're probably not supposed to be able to see this document, but I did find it accidentally via Google so that's their problem not mine. I'm at the desk right now so can't read it carefully, but I imagine there's some good stuff there. - John Dupuis
"We take an evidence-lead approach..." where we take an entirely irrelevant number and apply it to business practice... - Cameron Neylon
"It is worth noting that very many Elsevier journals do have an embargo period of 12 months, but not all." - Joe - Systems Analyst
" appropriate amount of time is needed for journals to deliver value to subscribing customers before the manuscript becomes available for free." - Joe - Systems Analyst
Yeah, the parts on embargoes are pretty bad. On the other hand, a couple of years ago if someone had told me that the main point of OA contention with Elsevier in 2014 was going to be embargo length, well, I think I would have taken that. Is there a larger Big Content anti-OA plan where disputing embargo length is only a small skirmish? I guess so, but I'm still glad to see that the battlefield seems to have shifted somewhat. - John Dupuis
I'm with John. This is pretty significant progress. - RepoRat
There is a bigger picture here - settle on embargoes with an 'average' length of 12 months because 'one size doesn't fit all', double down on publisher control of access through CHORUS and then hold back the tide for another few years before we get real OA so they can squeeze out as much money as possible. All that said, yes its progress...but Elsevier still putting $100kS into battling against Californian and New York OA legislation. - Cameron Neylon
sent it to the CARL OA gruop - thanks for posting! - jambina
Cameron, absolutely. The big publishers definitely have a long game and a short game. - John Dupuis
jambina, I'll have a post up collecting all the responses I've found probably sooner rather than later. Did McGill respond? Is it public? York's is here: I was on the group that sought feedback and formulated the response. - John Dupuis
we did respond but it isn't public yet. still working on it... (gah.) you got the CARL one though? - jambina
Yes, I got the CARL one. - John Dupuis
@John, I'm not sure - a lot of them only seem to have a short game - Cameron Neylon
Cameron Neylon
A long shot - looking for a legally incorporated campaign organisation in California which is focussed on Open Access (and that I am unaware of)
Do you mean registered lobbyist or 503(c) non profit or? Maybe either? And not plos - Christina Pikas from iPhone
Which ones are you aware of? - Meg VMeg
Not a registered lobbyist, but some sort of community organisation but not a generic one like PLOS, EFF, CC etc but something with a focus on something OA-ish. Doesn't need to be a non-profit necessarily. - Cameron Neylon
Maybe ping Heather Joseph? All the ones I know of are based in DC, but if there's one in CA, she'll probably know. - RepoRat
Thanks for all that, will be in touch with Heather anyway on this. What I'm looking for is an existing legal entity that would make it unnecessary to create a legal entity basically. But it seems highly unlikely that at a perfect fit one exists that I'm not aware of. - Cameron Neylon
Internet Archive? - jambina
Somebody else to contact would be Catherine Mitchell at CDL. She's gotta be hooked into that community! - RepoRat
Walt Crawford
I know ego searches can be disappointing, but I was a little surprised to check the new 219-page CREATe OA literature review and find...that I've apparently never written anything worth citing on the topic. Including the book. Well, damn.
Certainly encourages me to keep working in the area! Not. - Walt Crawford
I'm about to go to a meeting to tell them what they've missed so happy to take guidance. I'm probably not going to read their lit review if its that long so Cliff Notes on the deficiencies very welcome. - Cameron Neylon
I didn't read the whole bloody thing, and I'm not sure what I'd say about the deficiencies--other than Peter Suber, the Acknowledged OA Commentariat has pretty much ignored me and most other library-type folk, so not much new there. And I am an observer/commentator, not an OA activist. (Also, Harnad thinks I'm anti-OA...) So, mostly just disappointed. Nothing new there. - Walt Crawford
Hmmm, also nothing by Taylor, Curry, Wilbanks, Thaney, Salo, Brembs, Piwowar, Fister... - Cameron Neylon
For Salo, Piwowar, Fister...see my comment. Although what you're finding is that the literature review only reviewed some slice of the literature...which isn't really surprising. (Maybe only the literature in peer-reviewed journals? Nope, that's not it, since Harnad, Suber, and Poynter are cited for a number of gray-literature sources.) - Walt Crawford
Bummers, all around. - Joe - Systems Analyst
Not really, there's lots of stuff about history, positioning and perspectives but the emphasis is on pieces from Poynder, Harnad, Davis. Stuart Shieber gets one citation, Mike Carroll similarly (remember this is a copyright project!). Plenty of non-peer reviewed in there, and indeed very little *peer-reviewed* material, mainly opinion pieces of one sort or another. - Cameron Neylon
Emphasis on books as references I suppose. Fitzpatrick's Planned Obsolescence makes it in, however as was noted as the impetus for the thread Walt's book is a howling omission from that set. - Cameron Neylon
Christina Pikas
today was the first time i'd heard of knowledge unlatched ( - does anyone know how this is different from is it just that it's things that are already published or...?
yeah, that's the basic difference: KU wants the money up front to publish at all, whereas is going after stuff that's already published. - RepoRat
Also - when I looked at it, it seemed to be a package deal, not title-by-title. - barbara fister
KU reminds me a lot of SCOAP3, actually. If only any of the titles were at all relevant to MPOW's subject focus. - Deborah Fitchett
Its a consortium arrangement so institutions subscribe to a package of books to cover the costs of production from a range of publishers. Total price is set up front so institutions have an interest in growing the program contributors. Its clever and seemed to work for a first round. Maybe something in this for journals in AHSS as well. - Cameron Neylon
Sarah G.
Serving powered doughnuts is optional.
electric donuts? GIMME - RepoRat
Sheesh! Obvious doughnuts (note the spelling) need to be steam powered...! Obvious advantage being that they will then be both powered and powdered...though perhaps the powdering might be not of the correct type... - Cameron Neylon
But aren't steam-powered doughnuts just bagels? - vicster: full-bodied
you say this as though it were a bad thing - RepoRat
Stephen Francoeur
Dale Askey, "Is it time for a PLoLIS?" Taiga Forum -
Pull quote: “But given our philosophical embrace of open access, our general professional stance that information should be freely accessible whenever possible, and our facility with the tools and procedures of journal publishing, shouldn’t a massive open access library and information science publishing platform along the lines of PLoS be something of a no-brainer?” - Stephen Francoeur
"The journals that most of us know and read (and cite) are still subscription based." Fast writeoff of C&RL and ITAL (and others), that is! [One problem with OA and the profession: Go OA and the profession ignores it...] - Walt Crawford
Also: I'm no more convinced that One Big LIS Journal to Serve Them All would serve library folks all that well, any more than PLOS One can (or should) really serve in lieu of all specialized journals. - Walt Crawford
I am in favor of a PLOLIS like journal, and I would support it and submit articles to it. But, I am not like all other librarians. - Joe - Systems Analyst
Askey dissed the hell outta IRs to my face at a conference panel discussion where I was on the panel. He's kind of got a history of poor form verging on 'splaining with respect to OA and its library practitioners. - RepoRat
(I felt so bad after that that I vowed then and there I wasn't doing any more IR or OA panels for a good long time. I really do not need any more people with no skin in the game telling me how I did it wrong.) - RepoRat
This doesn't surprise me based on the Taiga Forum post. - Walt Crawford
I was thinking that PLOLIS could be tied to a repository. People post articles to the repository, and then people peer-review or comment on the works. Then, people revise the articles based on the feedback. I know overlay journals have been thought of and/or tried in other disciplines, but maybe something like this could work in LISland? - Joe - Systems Analyst
I must admit, if there was to be a library-field megajournal, an overlay journal along those lines might be the way to go--but only as a complement to, not replacement for, any number of specialized OA journals. (Anybody have pointers to how/whether overlay journals are actually working?) - Walt Crawford
well, a bunch of overlay journals have ceased recently - like the virtual journal of nanotechnology or whatever it was called. But there's a journal starting up as an arXiv overlay... so I guess they're hopeful. - Christina Pikas
My sense is that overlay journals don't work, in at least some part because people subconsciously expect a unity of utility (search, browse, nav) and presentation (typesetting) from anything calling itself a journal. - RepoRat
So from that it would follow that if you could provide that, you might crack the problem of overlay journals? I think the mathematicians are getting close with using ArXiv as a back end but its harder in other areas. Kind of illustrates how little a journal really is without the branding... - Cameron Neylon
Maybe! I don't know. But if the big advantage of overlays is that they're cheap, adding production back into the mix makes them expensive again. I'm not sure it's quite what current journals think of as "branding" though -- production values are part of branding, but it's also Making A Name (which is less correlated with rigor or anything else useful than academe would like to think)... more... - RepoRat
So, you know, we might already have overlay journals in LIS. They're masquerading as LISNews, Cites and Insights, Current Cites, AL Direct, etc. Brand plus an (idiosyncratic, undocumented) selection scheme. If we could firm up the selection documentation, and get attention, we might be on to something. - RepoRat
This is turning into a very interesting thread. As a pseudo-scholar in the library field, I see the best kind of journal branding as relating to "more likely than others to have articles I might be interested in," which is neither rigor nor production values--in a way, it's what a good magazine is. - Walt Crawford
As for RR's suggestion of what we already have: Current Cites may be close to a model of sorts; C&I is, at times, at its best; AL Direct and what's left of LISNews much less so. Notably, they're overlays on a combination of scholarly, non-scholarly, and gray literature. There was at one time an "organization" involving CC, C&I and several dearly departed. - Walt Crawford
[COWLZ, if I remember correctly--and it's documented in C&I.] If there was energy or money, some loose federation encouraging more focused overlays might be at least interesting and maybe useful. I am not volunteering to be point person; been there, done that, didn't even get a T-shirt. - Walt Crawford
Yeah, it wouldn't be a fun job. Talk about your cat-herding. - RepoRat
Also, the thought occurs that PeerJ is trying to own an overlay-ish model with its preprint server. Put the manuscript here, then if it's selected it gets production-valued up. This is not unclever of PeerJ. Could it work in LIS? I don't know. LIS has such weird, rigid, tunnel-visioned notions of "authority" that it'd be an uphill climb. But it's the only way I could see life re-injected into E-LIS or DList. - RepoRat
Yes, E-LIS is what I was thinking could use a different front end. - Joe - Systems Analyst
Concerning the tunnel vision of LIS journals, this article tells us what journals librarians should publish in. Sigh, another list of the best of, because we want to make many librarians ignore anything that isn't on the list. - Joe - Systems Analyst
same shit different day. *sigh* - RepoRat
Oh...lovely. I'm sure that list will creep into P&T norms - Hedgehog
does C&RL take letters to the editor? that's worth one. - RepoRat
Read (most of) that article. Interesting how non-peer-reviewed "journals" stick firmly in the top tier for places to submit--unless LJ became a peer-reviewed journal when I wasn't looking. (At least in the past, I'd question the peer-review status of Library Hi Tech as well, but maybe it's changed.) - Walt Crawford
I was going to say something about Library Trends, which normally invites articles, but it does claim to do refereeing... Still, I'm impressed by the wall-building to assure that new journals stay fringe forever. - Walt Crawford
Yeah, they referee. From them came the deathless "is she allowed to say that?" re something or other in Roach Motel. (Intellectual freedom? Wuzzat?) - RepoRat
I guess when I published in LT (which was, admittedly, 31 years ago), the referees just didn't have anything to say. - Walt Crawford
Or the editors didn't pass on the reports, which is what happened to me; Sarah Shreeves gave me a list of things to improve distilled from the feedback, and informally passed on the Deathless Question. - RepoRat
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