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Cameron Neylon › Comments

Cameron Neylon
You know that feeling when you gain a new perspective on all the problems that you though insoluble for several years...?
Sure. :) What's up? - RepoRat
Of course, it may well just be that I have a new hammer and all of those issues look like nails :-) - Cameron Neylon
General theory of cultural change in scholarly communications...(and failures thereof) - Cameron Neylon
Formulate the basic problem as one of convincing knowledge clubs (which have non-rivalrous but excludable goods) to share those goods by giving them access to network effects that create new club goods. - Cameron Neylon
Crossref succeeds because the club (publishers) gives away a resource (infrastructure plus identifiers) that gives them a club good (traffic and attention) - Cameron Neylon
IRs live or die on the basis of their ability to convince academics that by depositing manuscripts (club goods -> public goods) that they will exploit the network of the web to get more attention (club goods). Where discovery works and the network is created effectively (eg QUT, Liege, Southampton) this works. This provides design principle for the underlying infrastructure (ie repository software and support systems) that seem to map to success stories. Discovery is critical, frictionless deposit etc etc - Cameron Neylon
Knowledge Unlatched works because it takes the club goods of the library monograph budget, and access to the books themselves, and turns them into a public good, but delivers club goods (saved money in the longer term) back to the club. struggles (as do many crowdfunding campaigns in general)because there is no club to start with so where does the benefit get returned to ? - Cameron Neylon
Consequence: we need to build infrastructures and templates that enable frictionless conversion of club goods to public goods and allow easy integration into *existing* networks/communities that all the club to exploit network effects and gain club returns (or at least given them confidence that such returns are likely). - Cameron Neylon
And this arises out of the view that knowledge is *not* created as a public good but as a club good (non-rivalrous but excludable). Knowledge/insight is situated within communities and needs to be transferred out of them into public spaces. - Cameron Neylon
...which is not new, but took me a long time to wrap my head around. - Cameron Neylon
"... and the network is created effectively" seems really handwavey to me, though that may be because I spent six years trying to create that network and failed quite miserably. How does one effectively create such a network? Are there prerequisites without which it won't happen? Etc. - RepoRat
Yep. It is. My interim answer is that the community probably already needs to exist in some form if you want the easy route. The longer term answer is that we need to build the network as infrastructure. So the reason we can even talk about this is that the web exists as an infrastructure that eases connections and makes network effects accessible on a much larger scale at lower cost. So at some level we need to create those networks... - Cameron Neylon
...the new piece is that we should probably be doing that (at least in our space) by connecting up clubs, rather than trying to "crowdsource" individuals. "build it and they will come" drops out as a design anti-pattern immediately if the club/group/community is central - Cameron Neylon
But yes, things that can stop network effects being accessible include friction (legal, financial, political), poor discovery, lack of nothing new there but it seems to link failures in a number of different bits of our space - Cameron Neylon
I *think* that the logical conclusion of a good model that builds on this would be a) templates that make it easier to adopt good practice in building services/infrastructures/clubs that work in this system and b) good ground rules for telling if something is probably not going to work. That seems useful. - Cameron Neylon
I can go along with this. The piece I would add -- not least because I lectured about it in class today :) -- is FFS START SMALL and grow from there. A thing I didn't realize when I was writing Roach Motel or even How2Scuttle is that if you set your scope to "all of campus, all at once" you're screwed because you can't focus your effort enough to actually help anybody, not to mention... more... - RepoRat
Yep! And that's consistent with the economics of successful "clubs". They need to be at a scale where you can build trust internally before they can be persuaded to unilaterally trust externally. Homogeneity is as much an issue as size because of this. Is it generally true that the most successful IR programs started in departments? Southampton ECS, Harvard FAS (but basically CS), QUT?.... more... - Cameron Neylon
That's an interesting research question. Among the lit review should be the Carrots and Sticks article from D-Lib that I love so much; the angle that fits here is that the IR managers quite consciously and intentionally used bribery to get club rivalries/competitions going. - RepoRat
You'd have to explain Mana'o and DList's failures away though. I think that's possible, but it would still need doing. Can't speak for Mana'o, but my impression of DList has always been that they vastly overestimated LIS faculty's give-a-shitness. (Or, to put it in club terms, the internal cohesiveness of the club. ASIST always seems to me like a bunch of people getting together who for the most part don't actually like each other very much.) - RepoRat
CUNY's internal social-network thinger would be an interesting case to look at; so would MLA Commons. Both seem designed for club-building. - RepoRat
Yep, that's useful. Things that would need to fit the model, failures and successes will be crucial to seeing if this makes sense. - Cameron Neylon
Just for my own curiosity's sake, I'd love to hear how California eScholarship turned itself around. I mean, there's an official story, and I mostly believe it as far as it goes. But I'm *dead sure* there's more to it. - RepoRat
this is the best thing on the Internet today. thank you. - jambina
Any chance that my wishful thinking of the schol comm future has any chance? - Joe
Academics gotta think that it is a big club just for them. - Joe
Ok, so I think I need a more robust and less hand-wavey version of the model before trying to shoe-horn stories into it. Also need a grounding in proper case study methodology at some point. But this does seem to be making some sense still (been churning on it for a few days now...) - Cameron Neylon
if i can help and test any theories out, let me know. i have the fortune (most days) of building a repository from scratch, so working with clubs is totally my angle right now. - jambina
I definitely think you're on to something worth testing as empirically as possible. - RepoRat
@jambina Will bear that in mind. I need to think about how best to take this forward. Will take some time to get the ducks lined up. - Cameron Neylon
all good. we are still moving slowly on this (oh funding requests, how i love writhing thee) so timing might work out. - jambina
Freeda B.
We're having a discussion about whether to use NIH "author manuscript" versions of article to fulfill ILL requests at MPOW. As a staunch open access advocate, I'm all for it, but I'm getting some push back. The author manuscript versions, as far as I can tell, have gone through peer-review, but not the final copy edit.
Anyone know a little more about the NIH open access articles and their relation to the final published versions? - Freeda B.
doesn't it depend on the publisher and what they send/allow? - Christina Pikas
If they are NIH, shouldn't they be in PubMedCentral already and not need ILL? - Hedgehog
Exactly, they are in PubMedCentral, but the pdf has a disclaimer about being an "author manuscript". For example: - Freeda B.
Just convert to document delivery and send the requestor the PubMed Link? - Aaron the Librarian
Yeah, I guess I"m thinking along the lines of Aaron-- it's already open, why is anyone requesting an ILL? It's the same manuscript, just doesn't have the PDF formatting the journal put in place... changes would be commas/typos. - Hedgehog
Yes, you are all responding in exactly the same way I did to the question. But some people here are concerned about sending students or faculty something which has not gone through the final editing process. I guess I'm trying to find a way to convince them or at least assuage their concerns. - Freeda B.
Pagination may be different, so harder to cite to a specific page of the article? - Joe
The figures may also be on completely different pages, so if so one wants to cite a figure, hard to know which page it appeared in the final version. - Joe
The NIH expects it to be the same material, that's good enough for me. I could see wanting it for Joe's question but that seems rare. - Hedgehog
Perhaps I am a bad person (I likely am for this) but I would just cite the PubMed Author MSs content as a webpage published in a collection (the PubMed colletcion) for an academic assignment. {I get that in a formally published venue the version of record would be fairly mandatory} - Aaron the Librarian
*grumbles about the confusion created by this, a wish that the PMC was the final version, and @#$%@# publishers* - Rachel Walden
The final version *could* be different. People requesting ILL may either 1) not know a copy is available in PMC, or 2) want to be sure they're seeing a final version. I do worry about whether anything (supplementary items, figures, etc.) could be problematic/missing in author versions, whether any corrections that happened in editing may be missing and important, etc.But I also think folks are probably overestimating how thorough/transformative that final edit might be. - Rachel Walden
I'm tagging this thread for a likely future C&I discussion of OA Colors (the problems with green being part of it, as in this case). Thanks. Nothing to offer, though. - Walt Crawford
This is all very helpful. It is also making me explore why PubMed isn't connected to our 360 Link tool, so that users could discover PubMed articles on their own. My guess is that most people would happily use the PubMed version if they found it first, so I'm going to see if we can make that happen. - Freeda B.
Nothing much to offer but that because its a strong cultural preference for print version of record, applying just logic to the answer is unlikely to help because it requires surfacing reasons for that preference (which people don't much like to think about). To be successful you need to add a values argument on top of the "its close enough" argument. Also copy editing? Does anyone do that any more? Proofing yes, copy editing is pretty unusual. - Cameron Neylon
I got into a rather umm interesting exchange on my last paper with the journal copy editor. - Hedgehog
fwiw- our standard thing is something like - we found it available online here:... but if you still need the version of record from the publisher we can get that for you. I don't do ILL for a living, but I'm pretty sure no one ever asks us to buy/ILL anyway - Christina Pikas
Connecting PubMed to 360 is a true pain in the ass, but worth it. And it would solve your problem. - maʀtha
Cameron Neylon
Re: Principles for Open Scholarly Infrastructures -
"Hi Leigh. Yes the Open Definition should be a touch point. I think we felt that wasn't widely enough known so that making the data definitely available in some bulk download form was good to signal. And you're right on open formats as well. I guess in terms of privacy we were trying to signal that the default is open but there are edge cases that need to be acknowledged. Certainly we weren't saying it should be used as an excuse. Maybe that needs to be more explicit." - Cameron Neylon
Cameron Neylon
Re: First analysis of software metrics -
"Your comment about not following metrics on the forks is interesting because it surfaces an issue that is clearer within software repos but definitely generalises to data (and possibly written works. To what extent is it useful/necessary to natively aggregate up metrics for the forked repos (as opposed to expecting a downstream analyst to decide whether/if they want to do that)? This also comes up with annotations (issues in this context I guess) where you want to somehow signal a transitive property so that the annotation of a gene in a document actually flows through to the gene in the database or the issue on the forked repo flows through to an upstream version..." - Cameron Neylon
Cameron Neylon
Re: Principles for Open Scholarly Infrastructures -
"That's a really good question. Clearly the governance doesn't fit in terms of stakeholder involvement and financial transparency is minimal. I wonder whether you've hit on an issue which is that our model only works for relatively small infrastructures or at least homogeneous(ish) communities. As things get bigger the issues of effective and representative stakeholder engagement become substantial." - Cameron Neylon
I understand this Dorothea Salo knows stuff about things.
I've heard the same. Too bad she's hard to get ahold of. - lris
She's kinda Looney, but I really like her ideas and she's a lot of fun - Aaron the Librarian
Look for the purple streak. - ♫Maurice the Trainer♫
It's all lies. - RepoRat
RepoRat, I think that's libelous and slanderous. Just wait till Dorothea sees that! - lris
LIES I TELL YOU. (Besides, Dorothea's one of those commie open-access, information-justice freaks, she won't sue.) - RepoRat
*I've* heard she doesn't just know stuff about things...but things about stuff... - Cameron Neylon
Cameron Neylon
Principles for Open Scholarly Infrastructures -
Everything we have gained by opening content and data will be under threat if we allow the enclosure of scholarly infrastructures. We propose a set of principles by which Open Infrastructures to support the research community could be run and sustained. - Geoffrey Bilder, Jennifer Lin, Cameron Neylon - Cameron Neylon
Cameron Neylon
The problem of expertise: The Brighton/English Touring Theatre production of Stoppard’s Arcadia -
The play Arcadia by Tom Stoppard‘s links entropy and chaos theory, the history of english landscape gardens, romantic literature and idiocies of academia. I’ve always thought of it as Stoppard’s most successful “clever” play, the one that best combines the disparate material he is bringing together into a coherent whole. Rosencrantz and Guildernstern are Dead feels more straightforward, more accessible, although I don’t doubt that many will feel that’s because I’m missing its depths. In the Theatre Royal Brighton/English Touring Theatre production that just closed at the Theatre Royal in Bath the part of Thomasina was played by ... - Cameron Neylon
Cameron Neylon
This week I apparently will mostly be cranky...
...and mostly responding to queries with "FFS, just go and read this thing years ago and get back to me afterwards..." - Cameron Neylon
We had our Steacie Library Hackfest this week. Just finished and it was a huge success. I am uncrankyable this week. #yulhackfest is the hashtag. - John Dupuis from iPhone
That's a plus. I need some of that I think. Ideally energetic enthusiastic people who've actually done some homework... - Cameron Neylon
Other than being buried in gruntwork, I'm actually having a great week! Classes going well (I GOT THROUGH RDF/XML WITHOUT KILLING ANYONE including myself), met an applicant today that I really hope chooses us, got Encode Club off the ground... life's good! - RepoRat
LSW: Joe
Justin wonderin'. How did people hear about the LSW?
Josh's blog, I think. - Pete
Twitter - ellbeecee
It was whispered to me in an elevator at CIL in DC 2008. By Josh Neff. Also the picture from CIL2008 in Meredeth's article makes me miss a whole bunch of folks who I don't see enough anymore. Let me get this stuff out of my eye. - ♫Maurice the Trainer♫
Iris and Martha, back when LSW was still in a meebo room - Sir Shuping is just sir
From Ruth at SLA - Christina Pikas from iPhone
I'm not sure. Probably Josh's blog, too. - bentley
I was in the Meebo room on the day it was born. Cigars were handed 'round; there was a brandy toast. It was a beautiful baby. *dabs at eyes* - Rochelle *boom* Hartman
I think I couldn't get on Meebo because I had the ancient computer then or something. :-( - bentley
I think from Rochelle's blog post about it, which also led me to getting onto Twitter in the first place. Almost 8 years there now. - Katie
blake had a tweet in his feed that led to a link to here, and to see what the link actually said, i had to sign up... - LibrarianOnTheLoose
From some pamphlets my doctor gave me when I asked about spells of dizziness. - Stephen Francoeur from Android
Meebo... oh look, Rochelle Said It Better Than I Could. Summer of 2007, iirc - Aaron the Librarian
I don't believe you Stephen... - Joe
As you shouldn't, because actually I heard about it in a vision. I was in the Zs, dusting some of my favorite library science titles, when a flash of light blinded me and knocked me to the floor. A booming voice told me, "Go ye online to find ye brethren, like minded folk who, enticed by calls for slatterns and powders of mystery, make sport of all that is sacred." - Stephen Francoeur
I do remember the Meebo room from the summer if 2007...mainly because I'd pop in the evening from whichever hotel as I drove cross country from Youngstown to Tucson for the new job. Terre Haute, Joplin, Amarillo, Albuquerque, Tucson. It was gone by the time I moved back east in 2010. That was Van Horn, Tyler, Birmingham, Atlanta. (the things that stick in my head...) - ellbeecee
From laurax, I think. It's so hard to remember. - kaijsa
Actually, Stephen's recounting might mirror what happened for some of us - especially the description provided by the Great Cataloguer. - Aaron the Librarian from Android
I don't remember specifically, but I do know that at a conference sometime before CiL 2009, there was a small crowd of people having entirely Too Much Fun, and I kinda-sorta recognized some of them from their blogs, and thought "that right there? That's the LSW." And then at CiL 2009 I was sitting on the floor in the hotel lobby with 'em. :) - Catherine Pellegrino
Roundabout way. I was invited to a crime & mystery fiction FF group by Maxine Clarke (super-crimeficfan and Nature editor who sadly is gone now but did a lot of Nature's media stuff and was a good online friend). Then I browsed around and thought "wait, I think Iris mentioned this Library Society of the World thing..." AND THEN A VOICE SAID .... like Stephen, only not in the Zs. - barbara fister
I'm guessing one of the founders mentioned it to me *or* I picked up on it from an early blog post. I don't believe I was one of the really early folks, but probably among the first 200. - Walt Crawford
I remember your posts from your drive too, LBC! - laura x from iPhone
Meebo room. I'm going to with probably Rochelle dragged me in :) - Hedgehog
Meebo room, mentioned by Steve? - Megan loves summer
I came across LSW through Friendfeed. Wish I could remember exactly what/when/where the connection was made but...see para 8/9 in http://book-shaped-object.came... - Cameron Neylon
It's all Rochelle's fault circa 2008/2009. - Galadriel C.
^^ that. All my friends are here, even if I'm mostly silent. - Louise "Weezy" Alcorn
*takes a bow* - Rochelle *boom* Hartman
I was there at the beginning...? - Julian
I think it was probably Mark Lindner. Meebo was definitely involved. I was looking for a way to stay connected to libraries while I lived abroad. - Jaclyn aka spamgirl from Android
Iris was my college librarian and showed me the light when I began applying to library schools. - Lily
Meebo room, but I forget how I found that. It was 2007, probably, and I was lonely at work. Sort of what stephen said, only in the basement with the shelf list catalog. We called it "the B level." - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
I found this on the earlier version of my blog: It seems that it was the science gang that got me on FF not the librarians. No idea how I ended up in LSW at this point, probably just by accident or following the trail from someone I already knew. - John Dupuis
I found it when the group was raising funds for Walt to attend ALA...and I'm not sure where I saw that, probably on LIS News? - John: Thread Killer
I think maybe Josh's blog? - maʀtha
Walt Crawford
Thinking this request may not have reached LSW people (or you're all trying to get out of Chicago).
Closing the loop: Rudy verified that the doi's working properly. Thanks. - Walt Crawford
Also aware I haven't sent you my comments on the manuscript. I need to pull the comments out of one device onto another and I hadn't got that far yet. Will try to do it tonight. - Cameron Neylon
Cameron: Thanks. - Walt Crawford
Meg VMeg
Here's a funny trend I've noticed: folks wanting to use web scraping tools for their research projects, essentially to index journals, because they don't know that it's already been done.
But can they actually get the bulk index data? I can't. - kendrak
They want subsets based on fields that are indexed, so it would be as easy as doing a search and exporting metadata. And both Scopus and WoS have APIs now. - Meg VMeg
We've had the same trend. (I'm trying to figure out how to talk with faculty en masse about the difference between licenses and copyright...) We've been working with EconLit to give a faculty member what he wants so he won't scrape-- for months. They are willing, but the amount of red tape is truly absurd. - RudĩϐЯaЯïan
If there's an API available, it still wouldn't be as much fun. #doitthehardway - kendrak
True, they did preface their question with, "How can I make this as hard as possible for myself, by redoing all the work that someone else already did and that the library pays a lot of money for access to?" - Meg VMeg
Any chance you could give me a sense of how much of this is going on? We're advocating for copyright reform in Europe and one of the publisher arguments is "there is no demand" - to which my answer is generally, sure there is but you don't see it because people just don't ask...I'm guessing this isn't really text mining per se but its a similar space - Cameron Neylon
I've seen mention of this sort of thing as being not permitted in some recent license agreements. Mostly business data, but still. Watch out for that if you end up helping them. - Holly's favorite Anna
Oh, these are bibliometrics projects that would be easy to do the "old-fashioned way", it just sounds cooler and harder and more DH-y if you use a web scraper and you've never heard of bibliometrics. It is truly nothing fancy, which is why it's funny to me. - Meg VMeg
Though it cheers me to think of Eugene Garfield as a proto-Digital Humanist. - Meg VMeg
Cameron Neylon
Another tree, a different cat...
2015-01-25 09.36.59.jpg
2015-01-25 09.36.21.jpg
This was actually a cub. There is a picture somewhere in here of a full grown cheetah up in the same tree which just goes to show...cats...trees....high stuff... - Cameron Neylon
Walt Crawford
Two-parter on my massive OA research: 1. To end the coyness, it will appear as an issue of Library Technology Reports (from ALA TechSource) sometime this summer, which means I'll do 15,000-18,000 words of reasonably tight, coherent presentation on the results and what they mean.
2. If there are one or two of you--max. three--who would like to review the rough draft of "Idealism and Opportunism: The State of Open Access Journals," let me know. The draft should be ready late this week or very early next; I'd need comments and suggestions within two weeks of sending the PDF. Reward: I'll send you a signed copy of the LTR issue when it appears. - Walt Crawford
[The Library Loon is not eligible, as it's linked to at least once. But then, the Library Loon isn't on FriendFeed. The BAE, whoever that might be, probably is eligible.] - Walt Crawford
Oh, and if it's not clear: the draft will be fully formatted (in a style resembling LTR) and will be roughly 17,000 to 18,000 words, or about 42-44 pages. One rough-draft chapter left to go; right now it's at 16,600 words, and the final chapter should be brief. - Walt Crawford
I'd love to but timeline doesn't work for me. I'll look forward to seeing final version though! - Hedgehog
Hedgehog: if your library subscribes to LTR, you'll get it automatically; if not, it should be $45 (with the first chapter free online). Dunno *when* this summer it will appear... - Walt Crawford
If its useful for me to to review then I should be able to do on that timeframe. This week tight, next week mostly tight (but with some plane time Friday), week after starting to clear somewhat. - Cameron Neylon
Hi Cameron, I'm mostly looking for library people, but I'd be happy to send you a copy. Hi others: If it takes more than 2-3 hours to read through it and tell me if there's something glaring that I missed/overemphasized/screwed up, I've done it wrong. That's really what I'm looking for; it will go through proper editorial and copyediting passes in any case. - Walt Crawford
I should note that the only journal I mention by name is PLoS ONE, of necessity given a discussion of publication volume. (That is: there are four OA journals I tag as "megajournals," but one of them--PLoS ONE-- has fivetimes as many articles as the other three combined.) - Walt Crawford
Caveat: That's as of the penultimate chapter. The final chapter might have one list of journal names as an example of OA presence in one relatively small field, namely LIS. Or might not. - Walt Crawford
<bump> Anybody else? - Walt Crawford
can't - must dissertate - but I'm sure you'll find someone good! - Christina Pikas
Thanks. No pressure. I rarely even ask (being, you know, an arrogant SOB)--but I'm ahead of schedule this time, so thought it was worth a try. - Walt Crawford
I have a big presentation on the 29th, so as long as I can start after that I should be able to do a review. - John Dupuis
np - I'd love to see a copy in any case! - Cameron Neylon
John, Cameron, I'll email you both PDFs when the draft is complete--either Friday or Monday, most likely. I don't plan to touch it after that until February 9, and even comments by February 16 would be useful. Thanks! (Could you each send me your email address--in email to I can send the PDF?) - Walt Crawford
Walt, I am no open access fiend, or even very smarts about it, but I would like to know more -- and would, therefore, be happy to look at your piece for my own education AND to help you out. If you want library type feedback without OA expertise, I'm your girl. :-) [will gmail that to you too] - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
Thanks all! John, Cameron and Stephanie have sent me emails, and I'll send them PDFs. Three seems about right. - Walt Crawford
Megan loves summer
Is anyone familiar with / subscribing to Open Book Publishers, started at Cambridge? They have a library membership scheme through which libraries can support the initiative (and pay for downloadable access, etc.)
I know the founders, they're good folks. Coming from an academic, not library background but have built the operation up from scratch, essentially with no outside support. Its a freemium model (unless a specific book gets additional funding) where ePub/PDF etc are extra but online reading is free (print also attracts a premium over cost but not huge revenue there). If I were writing a... more... - Cameron Neylon
Cool, thanks. - Megan loves summer
John Dupuis
I don't think we have a thread here yet for the Springer/Nature merger. Some info here on what is and isn't included:
The most interesting thing that *isn't* included is Digital Science. If I were Springer that might have been the thing I wanted most, the forward-thinking, innovative group that will (you hope) set you up for the next 10 or 20 years. - John Dupuis
It doesn't look like a let's-us-and-Pearson-fight either, because what I presume to be Macmillan's higher-ed textbook arm remains separate. I thought Springer had a textbook portfolio? I could be wrong. - RepoRat
oh wait, now I'm completely confused. Macmillan Education *is* included, but the US arm of it isn't? Weird. - RepoRat
As for Digital Science, a disruptive-innovation strategist would call leaving them separate the right move; it prevents the Old Skool at both businesses from squelching DS. Springer might well want it, but would Springer be good to it? That's the question, I suspect. - RepoRat
The resulting behemoth will be a curious pushmi-pullyu with respect to open access and library relations. I have no way to even make a stab at predicting the outcomes. My sense is that Springer has a rep among librarians for being pretty chill and reasonable about things, whereas NPG... doesn't. Springer also saw opportunity in BMC, whereas NPG didn't really move until PLoS ONE kind of forced their hand. - RepoRat
DS may have argued not to be included so that they would not be squelched. - Joe
Is the Frontiers In OA journals part of the deal? - Joe
Heck if I can tell. Anybody else? - RepoRat
The merger is Macmillan Science and Education which includes Nature, Palgrave, Scientific American and presumably the investment that Nature has in Frontiers. Springer has a fairly substantial book business, less so in text books tho I think. Macmillan re-organised a while back and the old "US" and "UK" businesses (which weren't anyway) were recombined into vaguely sensible blocks - Cameron Neylon
As I said elsewhere I think including Digital Science would look like a full stack play that would scare Competition Agencies, or certainly give Elsevier grounds to object. - Cameron Neylon
Oddly, of the Big Evil publishers, the place where DS would probably fit best is Elsevier. But I think Springer too is at least somewhat focused on the 10-20 year time frame on how OA, etc, could end up changing things in a big way. - John Dupuis
Heck, my sense is Springer got there a LOT faster than Elsevier. - RepoRat
Re Frontiers, looks like not: - RepoRat
I guess I would say that NPG and Springer have both been innovators, but in different ways. NPG has a killer R&D department in Digital Science, whereas Springer has been pretty damn foresighted about business currents in STEM publishing. If the combo adds NPG's Build Cool Shit ethos to Springer's Do Good Business Without Being Total Jerks About It ethos, this could be good. If it... more... - RepoRat
Wish that FF technology could allow me to like RRs previous comment. - Joe
Cameron Neylon
Who do you get to say I am? -
There’s an argument I often hear that brings me up short. Not so much short because I don’t have an answer but because I haven’t managed to wrap my head around where it comes from. It generally comes in one of two forms, either “You can’t possibly understand our world because you’re not an X” (where X is either “humanist”, “creative” or “social scientist”) or its close variant “You can’t possibly understand…because you’re a scientist”. There are a couple of reasons why this is odd to me. The first is a ... - Cameron Neylon
I have bitten my tongue on "how is that not an ad hominem argument?" soooooooo many times... - RepoRat
Both ad hominem and usually followed up with "...and because science communication is like this and like that...which I clearly understand" which is somewhat...ironic in its symmetry. - Cameron Neylon
heh. that too. - RepoRat
Cameron Neylon
For my holiday project I’m reading through my old blog posts and trying to track the conversations that they were part of. What is shocking, but not surprising with a little thought, is how many of my current ideas seem to spring into being almost whole in single posts. And just how old some of those posts are. At the some time there is plenty of misunderstanding and rank naivety in there as well. The period from 2007-10 was clearly productive and febrile. The links out from my posts point to ... - Cameron Neylon
Nice overview of the discussions. - Joe
I guess its not surprising but the technology moves on, the problems don't. Quite interesting how many things that I thought were really important to try don't seem worth it any more because they'd be too easy - proof of principle is trivial and doing it well hard work... - Cameron Neylon
laura x
Do you have a MacBook Air? If so, what size, and do you like it?
I have a 4-year-old Air in the big size (13") and I love it. It's still running like new and is on Yosemite, but I've had to replace the charger twice because the cords fray eventually. A good friend got the 11" at the same time and I'm kind of jealous of him because that would fit my purse. - kaijsa
3 year old 11". Its good laptop. Sits by my bed for when the tablet can't cut it. Its also the bedrooms Media center for when the Roku won't cut it. It also is the guest laptop when needed. I don't like people on my main rigs. - Me
Two year old, 13", love it. - Todd Hoff
2012 Macbook Air 13" with 256G SSD. Best laptop I've ever had. - Eric - No Gimmicks
I miss my 13" Air. Easily best laptop I ever had. - Jason Griffey from iPhone
I live off of my 2013 11" Air. Can be fully opened on any economy class plane or train on the planet* [*that I've tested it on] - Cameron Neylon
So for someone who has never owned a mac and want to start using what would you recommend? - aaron from Flucso
That depends. If you're using it for normal library stuff, then a macbook air of some size is probably fine. If you're going to be doing media editing on it, then a macbook pro. - DJF from Android
I really just want something I can write on (and check FF on) that doesn't want to install updates for 15 minutes every damn time I open it up. - laura x from iPhone
For writing, do you need Word? Because if not -- especially if Google Docs is an acceptable alternative -- I'd really recommend a Chromebook. Plus, they're super-inexpensive. - Catherine Pellegrino
No, I almost never write in Word (I haven't even owned it in years). I just want a keyboard and trackpad I don't hate and a computer that's not constantly in need of Windows updates. - laura x from iPhone
I still use the 2010 11". I still love it. The battery could be better. - Rodfather from Android
We got J this one about 6 months ago, and I use it for Google Apps work stuff sometimes, and it's been lovely: extremely portable and reliable, no (noticable) updates. Can't say whether you'd hate the trackpad, though: - Catherine Pellegrino
I'm LOVING my new Chromebook 11 for writing!!! - Lisa L. Seifert from iPhone
I have a Chromebook and it's good for web surfing stuff, but the sound and trackpad are so inferior to my Air that I rarely use it. I use mine mostly in the kitchen with recipes. Can't beat the price, though. - kaijsa
Yeah, the price is great, but so was the price on my current laptop, which I hate. Maybe I'll brave Best Buy tomorrow and see if I can try some things out. - laura x from iPhone
If you're willing to pay more for a better machine, I am biased toward recommending a Mac. - kaijsa
Macs cost more than cheap laptops. They also last two or three times longer than cheap laptops. - DJF
I adore my 13" Air. And I also am quite fond of the gaming laptop we have at home, but my hatred for its constant need for Windows updates is unspeakable. So if you don't need the graphics or processing power of something more robust, the Air is, IMO, unbeatable. - Jenica
Windows updates take forever, too. - kaijsa
Mac all the way. Jojo (son) loves his Air. I have a 13" non-Retina Pro that I'll trade in for a 15" Retina this summer (it's a VAR program here where I trade in the machine every two years). Because Macs last longer when you're not driving it into the ground with giant image and video files and hundreds of megs of font files, you can save a few hundred dollars by buying a refurb from Apple or a machine that's a couple years old from or - Mary B: #TeamMonique
2 yr old 13" MacBook Air - Best thing I've ever owned. - SAM
I made my wife and parents all get 13" MBAs. They like 'em just fine. My parents travel at least two-three times a year so they really like the lightness. - rønin
Wow. You *made* your wife get a specific computer. I've only been married 36.9 years so far; I can't even imagine *making* my wife buy a specific computer (or much of anything else). (OK, so we're both happy Windows users, even with the usually-once-a-month updates.) - Walt Crawford
And, admittedly, if I was traveling a lot I'd probably buy a lighter machine. It would probably be a Chromebook. - Walt Crawford
Tech stuff are the only things I can get away w/doing that. She just doesn't care w/computers & phones. I just hand her things, "Here, use this." Anything else in the house though, forget about it. - rønin
Until my current machine, I've always had Macs at home. I decided to save money last time I got a computer and I have been regretting it ever since. I've gone back to writing by hand because I know by the time the current machine gets going, I'll have forgotten my idea. Mostly I'm wondering if people find the Air a satisfying alternative to a MacBook Pro, which I don't want to pay for. - laura x from iPhone
It doesn't have the retina screen, otherwise I like mine (13 in) - maʀtha
Laura, the biggest differences between the air and the pro are the optical drive and the number of ports. If you don't use cds/dvds, and don't plug a lot of stuff into your computer, then you can get away with an air. I got a pro because I needed those extra connections. - DJF
Thanks--that was my impression, but I wanted to be sure I wasn't missing something I should be thinking about. Now I just have to find some money hiding under a rock or something. - laura x from iPhone
well, the pro also has a faster processor, but that's not a problem if all you're doing is web/email/youtube/netflix. - DJF
If you buy an Air, I've heard that getting extra RAM will make the computer last much longer (i.e., you'll have room for OS upgrades and new applications). You can also buy discounted Applecare on Ebay (though you should use PayPal and "beware fraudulent sellers" : ). These are all my plans when I get around to replacing my MacBook with an Air. - Meg VMeg
You can also get extra RAM and flash memory later. My bro is a Genius and is going to help me upgrade my Air (I might put in a faster processor, too). I'd love the retina screen, but can't justify replacing a machine that runs almost perfectly even if it's getting old. Correction: he's a Creative who works Genius a few hours a week. Sorry, Brother. - kaijsa
DJF: no more cd/dvd drives in the MacBook pro, fwiw...haven't been for a couple of cycles now. - Jason Griffey from iPhone
Kaijsa: you can't actually get new RAM for the Air...the ram is soldered to the motherboard, not slotted. I'm fairly sure even the Geniuses don't do that level of hardware work. - Jason Griffey from iPhone
Yeah, he just corrected me and said I can add bigger flash memory but not RAM. This is okay for my purposes. - kaijsa
So I assume I would then want to start with the largest amount of RAM possible? - laura x
^^ yes. And I TOTALLY support a MacBook Air - I LURVE mine. It's so light for conferences & so much easier to type on than a tablet. It's pricey tho, but worth it, imho. - Stephan!e•CogSc!L!brar!an
I have the latest 15" MacBook Pro, and I like it much better than the previous version I had. - COMPLICATED MR. NOODLE
Get the best standard config MacBook air (ie they sell four models at Best Buy, the best one) as d you should be good for the life of the laptop. - Eric - No Gimmicks from iPhone
I'm going with the 13" with 8GB. I thought about the 11", but I think that's a little too small even for me. Thanks, everyone! - laura x
Awesome call. I would advocate for those 2 extra inches pretty aggressively. Makes all the difference. - SAM
I'm late to the party, but I'd like to comment that the 13" MBA's 12 hour battery life is amaaaaaazing! Very comfortable with all day usage without a power adapter. - Arlan K.
Cameron Neylon
Data Capture for the Real World -
Many efforts at building data infrastructures for the “average researcher” have been funded, designed and in some cases even built. Most of them have limited success. Part of the problem has always been building systems that solve problems that the “average researcher” doesn’t know that they have. Issues of curation and metadata are so far beyond the day to day issues that an experimental researcher is focussed on as to be incomprehensible. We clearly need better tools, but they need to be built to deal with the problems that researchers face. ... - Cameron Neylon
There's one more known trick for getting people to improve metadata -- believe it or not, it's putting in *wrong* metadata. Do this right, and it itches people enough that they correct it. FWIW. ;) - RepoRat
Also, I think you and David Rosenthal share a hive mind: - RepoRat
Yep, wrong metadata is a good strategy but it needs to be in the context of "mostly right" and "wow, that just appeared of its own accord?". In this system "wrong" can also be "not quite right enough to drive functionality" which is a great place to be. - Cameron Neylon
The sense of "capture metadata at source" and then add to it as appropriate/necessary seems to be gathering some steam (per Rosenthal piece). Maybe I'll stop being heretic on this sometime ;-) - Cameron Neylon
Walt Crawford
I know, I know, I shouldn't comment at Skitch, but I had to...and that's uncovered, among other things, David Wojick's claim that no-fee Gold OA journals aren't "part of the market," which is one way to dismiss them, I guess.
Hmm. My response to the *second* comment on my comment is awaiting moderation. My response to Wojick himself seems to have disappeared entirely. Not sure what that means, or whether I should care. I am impressed by the mentality that simply defines away a huge chunk of the scholarly article arena because The Greenbacks. - Walt Crawford
I see they approved my response to the second response to my comment, and have tried again to respond to Wojick, slightly less heatedly this time. (Reluctantly, to be sure: by Wojick's standard I'm not doing research at all because nobody's paying me for it.) - Walt Crawford
"Librarians, in other words, are in an unholy embrace with the publishers they despise." - John Dupuis
Well that's blithering nonsense. No question that they're part of the is definitely a price point - Cameron Neylon
If you go back there, you'll see that for Wojick it really is Entirely About the Greenbacks: he doesn't think Elsevier and friends are going to convert to "the subsidy model" therefore it's irrelevant. Once you understand that the discussion has nothing to do with access to scholarship, it becomes clearer. (Oh, and of course those 4,000-odd pipsqueak "subsidy journals" pose no threat whatsoever to Elseviley's future profits. Because.) - Walt Crawford I'll go back to avoiding skitch commenting and doing my bit to bring actual facts to the discussion of access to scholarly articles, which apparently is an entirely different discussion. (I'd guess skitch and Beall both getsmany times the readership of C&I, but I'd like to be wrong on that.) - Walt Crawford
Cameron Neylon
If were fined $10 every time someone mis-used the term gold #openaccess I think we could fund all of scholarly comms..
If that included every time somebody looks at a journal's page misdefining gold OA, I think you might be right. - Walt Crawford
It's true - but I'm getting much more irritable with stuff coming out of institutions on this (or from "experts") - Cameron Neylon
welcome to my so-called (prior professional) life. I had to swallow that BS from sooooooooooooo many people... - RepoRat
And another $10 for every time someone says, "But what about the poor publishers?" - John Dupuis
and another $10 for "it's not sustaaaaaaaaaaaaaainable" - RepoRat
And $1 for every time Sandy Thatcher brings up university press monographs. So low cause otherwise it would bring down the world financial system. - John Dupuis
Ugh, we gotta stop this, because I am thinking THINGS I SHOULD NOT BE THINKING about the opportunities for mayhem in the NASIG/SSP co-day (I am going to NASIG).* - RepoRat
* disclaimer: things I would not ever actually do, but are still fun to think about, in a wistfully evil sort of way - RepoRat
Because you never know what's going to just slip out by accident ;-) - John Dupuis
Yeah, it might be a knife.* - RepoRat
* disclaimer: I never carry a knife when traveling. Like the TSA would even let me, sheesh. - RepoRat
Cameron Neylon
Interesting - lags between online availability & official pub date inflate Impact Factor. cc @ctitusbrown
oh, clever (of the publishers). evil and stupid (of Thomson). - RepoRat
it's really Roach Motel writ large -- I've been known to open OA talks with the koan "how does your paper get cited twice in the same journal issue in which it appears? post a preprint!" - RepoRat
suggests that one thing the CrossMark initiative should track across versions is date of availability. - RepoRat
Crossref is looking at a duplicative works standard that might cover some of this. The same game is also being played with embargoes. It might be available online but you have to wait a year for it to be "officially published" - Cameron Neylon
yeah, what BS -- I mean, ADDED VALUE. - RepoRat
Cameron Neylon
Does anyone have an up to date figure for subscription market share (by $) of the big trad publishers?
no, sorry. it's a very interesting question. - RepoRat
Generally available in those reports people pay thousands of dollars for...I'm looking at a back of the envelope calculation that gives a jaw dropping result, but I need those figures to confirm... - Cameron Neylon
Ok, not quite so jaw dropping...or maybe...arrgggh...can't get quite the numbers I need to pin this down... - Cameron Neylon
Besides "by $" it would also be interesting to have "by number of pubs" or "by number of journals", because the first I biased towards expensive journals... - Egon Willighagen
Yes, that's kind of my point in this case. Basically I'm trying to calculate how much orgs or countries could do with money saved by subscription cancellations. Often I've got total subscriptions but not by publisher, or by publisher but not the total so I can't calculate proportions... - Cameron Neylon
Yeah, trade secrets... - Egon Willighagen
barbara fister
This is a thread for inarticulate growling. Rawr!!!
grrrr argh - lris
thanks. I needed the solidarity. - barbara fister from iPhone
Arglarglarglarrrrrr! - Grumpator
mfargrahsshew - ellbeecee
grrrrrrrrrr ruff - Christina Pikas
What Steele everyone else having a week as well? - Cameron Neylon
I'm just a bit overwhelmed by lots of Things. - ellbeecee
Yeh. That... - Cameron Neylon
Grraaa -- *dissolves in coughing* - RepoRat
Rrrrrrrrrgarrrrrrrgrar. - laura x
Grrrrrrtttthh. - Laruia Ingalls Botts from Android
ARGBARGARGbargargbargARG. - Regular Amanda
d-d-d-d,b-b-bu-bu-buh,aaAAARRGH *facepalm* *doublefail* - Kathy
urrrrrrrrgh aaaaaaaaargh - Nikki D.
grgrgrrgrrrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr - Andy
Uuuaaaarrrrgggghhhhrrrrr - Mr. The Jason Fleming from Android
pppppppphhhhtttthhhhhbbbbtttttt [eta: *some witty Ministry of Silly Walks reference that works better then the lame one my brain refuses to release*] - Aaron the Librarian
schmoopie. - Megan loves summer
Neeeow ... wum ... ping! - Aaron the Librarian
Cameron Neylon
Policy, practice and problems: UK university cultures and responses to open access | Ngoding -
Policy, practice and problems: UK university cultures and responses to open access | Ngoding - Cameron Neylon
Cameron Neylon
High throughput sequencing for neuroscience | Cryptogenomicon -
"Scripting is a fundamental lab skill, like pipetting" via @marc_rr - Cameron Neylon
Cameron Neylon
To some a citation is worth $3 per year | Bits of DNA -
Those US News and World Report rankings are terrible and you should never give them any credence: via @lpachter - Cameron Neylon
Cameron Neylon
New CSIRO software opens Windows to science | CSIRO -
Workspace workflow platform. See #eRes2014 Tags: eRes2014 - Cameron Neylon
Cameron Neylon
An -style headline from - I like it: 'This study -
An @upworthy-style headline from @NiemanLab - I like it: 'This study finds that SM use reduces polarization' - Cameron Neylon
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