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Can we start a rational and cool headed thread on 9/11 here?

February 6, 2012 - Comment - Like - Share

Feel free to try. I happen to be a 9/11 skeptic myself, by the way -- with no apologies and a high degree of confidence. But I've discussed all the key issues at length several times in several forums already. Been there, done that. :) - Sean McBride

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The political establishment has handled the issue essentially by burying all discussion about it -- not a word. Whenever the details about 9/11 come up in online discussions, the official story is quickly picked apart and demolished. At some point the powers that be decided that complete silence was the only effective strategy for addressing all the open questions about 9/11. Don't... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, by 9/11 skeptic, do you mean you think it was an "inside job", with controlled demolition, and effectively a massive false-flag (with perhaps some sincere terrorists who were used as patsies in a cover story)? Often 9/11 "skeptic" refers to people who buy the official story, and 9/11 "truther" those who think it was a false-flag. So wanted to be sure where you stood. - anonymouscomments

My reason for starting this here, is so MW commenters can discuss it rationally (without getting banned!). But I'm also interested if any like-minded people would like to contribute to a webpage where the basics of the most persuasive evidence can be laid out, without BS theories etc. I myself am an unapologetic 9/11 "truther" and would like a resource where I can confidently direct... more... - anonymouscomments

I'm a 9/11 skeptic in the sense that I think that 9/11 official story is absurd in literally hundreds of important details. A plausible case can be made that 9/11 was an inside job and false flag op, but I won't endorse any theories about 9/11 until a new investigation uncovers all the facts and answers all the outstanding significant questions. I maintain an open mind on the subject. - Sean McBride

There are hundreds of valuable websites out there that discuss the facts and evidence about 9/11. But there is always room for a new take on the subject. - Sean McBride

I am 911...Someone(s) "Let" it happen.....or either the US is the most agency incompetent country on earth..... and the hijackers the luckiest amatuer terrorist that ever lived. Maybe all three. - American

Is this the 911 thread? I’ve been writing in the other one. - MRW

MRW you had it right- the other one is the new one. - anonymouscomments

Sean- I have put all the settings so that i should receive emails, but i never get a SINGLE email from friendfeed. not one, and i tried messing with and re-saving settings... am i missing something? or is it impossible for me to get email updates when people post? do i need software for my device or PC? etc. ~thanks - anonymouscomments

[Contd.] Olson’s new wife is blond, same height as Barbara Olson, and has the same ratio between the pupils. Ear canals and ear lobes end on same horizontal line relative to facial markers like nose, distance from top of lip or eyes. Lots more. These are things that cannot be faked or operated on, they are forensic indicators. Hairlines and forehead structures appear to match. I ran a... more... - MRW

anonymouscomments -- the email notifications feature doesn't seem to be working for anyone at the moment, which is quite frustrating. One has to track new comments by eye. One can complain about the problem on Friendfeed Feedback here http://friendfeed.com/friendf... But development of Friendfeed, which is now owned by Mark Zuckerberg/Facebook, is currently in limbo. - Sean McBride

Generally, however, each time you visit http://friendfeed.com/mondowe... the new posts and comments should be easy to spot. - Sean McBride

MRW, good analysis on the tantalizing Olson/new wife similarity. I have been fascinated by this since first reading about it on the bollyn site (do you ever read this site? lots of original reporting). This is the kind of issue that seems ripe for investigation...is she or isn't she the same person? Enquiring minds want to know, and this seems knowable, with DNA etc technology available. - chauncey

chauncey, I didn’t think of the DNA connection. ;-) I pointed this out to Bollyn years ago, actually. The key is always the ear. There is no plastic surgery that can effectively move the ear canal on the head wihout the risk of death. Very few reconstructions chop off the ear lobe-can’t deal with the ear without leaving scars of work done--so you can usually make determinations based on... more... - MRW

MRW, interesting analysis, you've "drilled" it down even further (stay away from the ear!). - chauncey

chauncey, check out Lois Gibson’s work for the Houston Police Department. http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/lois1... “Lois Gibson works for the Houston Police Department and is probably the most respected forensic artist and facial expert in the world. She has just been awarded with a notation in the Guinness Book of World Records for the highest crime solving rate based on composite... more... - MRW

will do - chauncey

OK, MRW, I read the article... very interesting indeed. Certainly in the case of the oldest tramp, I think even to the untrained eye she's got it right...in the case of the other two, its less clear but I'm not saying she's wrong...of course, Charles Harrelson is of particular interest, everybody is familiar with him, especially since he's Woody's father...my memory was that it had been... more... - chauncey

Chauncey - "Charles Harrelson is of particular interest, everybody is familiar with him, especially since he's Woody's father" I wasn't, never heard that before. Damn! - mark e

yeah, per Woody, Charles left the family when Woody was 7. I just read that Woody's mother's maiden name was, Oswald, coincidentally (I guess!) - chauncey

"Woody's mother's maiden name was, Oswald, coincidentally (I guess!)" LOL - mark e

BTW, Woody is a signatory at artists and actors for 9/11 truth, and has agreed to act in a to-be-made movie along with other prominent actors: http://actorsandartistsfor911t... - chauncey

chauncy- i look FORWARD to that movie, thanks for the tip. maybe it can make up for that idiotic waste of time fahrenheit 9/11..... when moore could have used his mass appeal to blow it open, he flopped. [BTW i am a *little* suspect of the website... could it be a scam? an intended flop? $25 to "get your name listed on the credits"?....any good info they are moving forward with a sincere script?] - anonymouscomments

Yeah, Fahrenheit 9/11, a red herring if unintended. Did you know Moore's agent is Rahm Emmanuel's brother? Re the proposed movie, the working title is "A Violation of Trust." It is the brainchild of Howard Cohen, I believe no prior scripting experience but has been working hard on it for a long time. You can hear an interview of Cohen here:... more... - chauncey

MRW (or anyone else), have you read "JFK and the Unspeakable" by James Douglass. I just finished it, highly recommended. I haven't read many other books on the subject, but for me this book really transcends. Eisenhower had warned about the military industrial (congressional) complex, but he didn't do anything about it, and when JFK stepped in, it was very much in full force. When,... more... - chauncey

MRW, since you mentioned elsewhere you haven't been reading this feed as much lately, I thought I would point out the above since you may have missed it...best - chauncey

This 2003 banned History Channel hour should interest you. ;-) The Johnson family got it banned: http://www.personalgrowthcourses.net/video... - MRW

I've read about "the fingerprint" before. I think that ties LBJ to the assassination beyond a doubt. Surprising docu, I'd not seen it before. It seems the crew who killed Kennedy, and who organized it, were themselves killed off. The life expectancy among the assassins doesn't appear to be much greater than that of their victim. - mark e

Mondoweiss on Friendfeed

The evolution of Peter Beinart - http://mondoweiss.net/2012...

March 13, 2012 from Mondoweiss - Comment - Like - Share

Sean McBride liked this

Peter Beinart's shifting opinion on equal rights for Palestinian citizens of Israel.

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Chu, hello...you mentioned Spinoza as a guide under this article...how does he serve as a guide, cliff notes version? Thx - chauncey

Big deal. So Beinart is being lionized by his peeps. Christ Almighty, these guys (like Beinart) are slow to come to a new realization. They ought to talk to non-Jews more. ;-) Or Blankfort. - MRW

Indeed they are slow. Beinart was the uber cheerleader for the Iraqi invasion. And I'm not sure the 2 state is realistic any longer. Palestinians get the 22% leftover land - not a fair deal. But the one state is gonna bring Jim Crow out of the closet. - Chu

Spinoza became persona non grata in the tribe of Judea. life (November 24, 1632 – February 21, 1677) - Chu

Sean McBride to Mondoweiss on Friendfeed, Mideast Politics

Israel's Shimon Peres reflects on Hollywood's global influence - latimes.com - http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/movies...

March 9, 2012 from Bookmarklet - Comment - Like - Share

American liked this

"Israeli President Shimon Peres told a movie and television industry audience at the DreamWorks Animation studio lot in Glendale on Friday that Hollywood often wields more influence across the globe than world leaders do. "The children believe the actors more than politicians," Peres said to a crowd that included Billy Crystal, Barbra Streisand, Steven Spielberg, DreamWorks Animation Chief Executive Jeffrey Katzenberg, Walt Disney Studios Chairman Rich Ross, CBS chief Les Moonves and Sony Pictures Chief Executive Michael Lynton, among other Hollywood executives. After Katzenberg introduced the Israeli leader as "a real hero," Peres spoke for less than 10 minutes, urging "close cooperation between Hollywood and Israel" and reminding the audience that "among the founders of Hollywood there were many Jewish people."" - Sean McBride from Bookmarklet

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There is so much wrong with this picture. - Sean McBride

Another avenue of subversion and mindbending of Americans. Will we accept the US being a Jewish State? - American

Peres is out to lunch. My Latino friend who lives in Fly-By-Country and who loves NPR--make that loved NPR--is now fed up with it. He's in town, we were driving two days ago, listening to a cloying half-hour NPR story about some Israeli rock star wannabe who could sing Adele's hit in Hebrew. It sounded like a club recording on an iPhone. My friend turned to me and said, "Isn't this... more... - MRW

I've have not listened to NPR for years. I think the last time was driving with a co-worker, who was a fan of it, and they had on one of their "news" interview programs. I don't remember what it was about, but I got annoyed enough I started lecturing the radio about the questions they were not asking and correcting the lies. My co-worker, who was a liberal libertarian type, was kind of... more... - mark e

Whether it sound like a conspiracy or not the fact is there is no main stream or public source, other than the net, that I know of, that has not been turned into, or at minium guarded by a Israel centric or Israel first interest. If one goes back to the 1963 Fulbright senate investigations and hearings on zionist activites in US press and media--fast foward it and mutpliy it by 1000 force --you will understand how we got in this mess. - American

NPR is insidious...practically every time you turn it on you hear the careful propagation...and the tone, too...Chris Hedges: "the happy talk of NPR"...as if all the nice liberals have to do is huddle around their radios and everything will be OK - chauncey

"Peres said to a crowd that included Billy Crystal, Barbra Streisand, Steven Spielberg, DreamWorks Animation Chief Executive Jeffrey Katzenberg, Walt Disney Studios Chairman Rich Ross, CBS chief Les Moonves and Sony Pictures Chief Executive Michael Lynton, among other Hollywood executives." One wonders if there was anybody there who wasn't a full fledged parasite? - mark e

"One wonders if there was anybody there who wasn't a full fledged parasite?" Whoa! Could you please explain what you mean. by "full fledged parasite"? Why are these people parasites? Parasites on whom? This is very disturbing language you are using and I would like you to clarify it, please. - GuiltyFeat

The language is only disturbing to you, GF. No one here owes you an explanation; we know what it means. As a non-American, you don't count. Not in this discussion. - MRW

Is that really how everyone feels? Sean? - GuiltyFeat

mark e, MRW and GuiltyFeat -- just catching up here. Regarding "parasites" -- my reaction was, what? (Actually, WTF to be honest.) That is classical inciting anti-Semitic rhetoric. How are they "parasites"? Most of them are highly talented American success stories. So: please explain the use of the term in a way that makes any sense. The term isn't always Judeophobic in this kind of context but it usually is. - Sean McBride

What bothered me about this story was that Shimon Peres seems to be trying to turn Hollywood, Google and Facebook into political and propaganda arms of the Israeli government and the Israel lobby -- a big mistake from the standpoint of the best interests of those American institutions. Also, Peres, whom I once admired for his eloquent efforts to try to achieve a Mideast peace agreement,... more... - Sean McBride

GuiltyFeat -- feel relaxed and comfortable about posting here. We should all be interested in the views of Israelis -- Israel is the heart of most of the controversies under discussion. And: mark e and MRW -- sorry, but I've got to call them the way I see them. - Sean McBride

Old school secular progressive Zionists like Peres no longer wield any significant influence over Israeli politics. He's a dinosaur and his pretty words are inconsequential. Netanyahu, Lieberman and the religious settlers, along with Christian extremists like Rick Santorum and John Hagee, are the true face of contemporary Zionism, not Peres. - Sean McBride

How I define anti-Semitism: hostility towards all Jews in general and towards "Jewishness." I know it when I see it -- it's not difficult to spot. Islamophobia: hostility toward all Muslims in general and towards Islam. Anti-Roman Catholic bigotry: hostility towards all Roman Catholics in general and towards Roman Catholicism. Anti-black bigotry: hostility towards all blacks in general and towards black culture. And so on. How do you define anti-Semitism? - Sean McBride

I think you pretty much nailed it. I think there are additional layers for each but you version stands as a working definition. An example of layers would be that I think there is a kind of anti-Arabism that exists in addition to and separate from Islamophobia. I think there are people who would excuse their own Arabophobia (is there a better or even an actual word?) by saying that they... more... - GuiltyFeat

GuiltyFeat -- right -- anti-Arabism or Arabophobia is another major pattern of bigotry. Here is the problem I have with bigotry in general: it tends to burn a whole in the skull of the bigot. The personality of the bigot becomes completely consumed by obsessive hatred for a single group. Bigotry is life-denying and mind-closing. Consider, for instance, Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer,... more... - Sean McBride

Now, with regard to the "parasites" language: I understand that some people are justifiably angry at the Israeli government and the Israel lobby -- *very* angry in some cases (I know I am extremely angry at the campaign by some pro-Israel activists to drive Americans into a war against Iran). But if that anger begins to spill over to Jews in general, then we are getting into disturbing... more... - Sean McBride

Sean - I find it equally disturbing when you bring out the "classical inciting anti-Semitic rhetoric" line. There's nothing that can truly be said about Israel that some apologist can't twist into an example of "classical inciting anti-Semitic rhetoric". I think the only real question here should be - Is the term "parasites" in this context true and meaningful or false and slanderous. - potsherd

potsherd -- the term "parasites" has often been used by anti-Semites over many decades (or centuries) to describe Jews in general -- it's a loaded word. One has to be careful about using it when discussing Jewish political issues. I am still not sure what mark e intended when he used the word in the above comment to describe that collection of individuals. I look forward to his explanation. - Sean McBride

How is Billy Crystal a "parasite"? You may not like his sense of humor (fine), but I often find him to be funny and personable. He's a legitimate American success story. I don't know what his views are on Mideast politics. The fact that he was present (as a member of a crowd) at a talk given by Shimon Peres tells me nothing about Billy Crystal's views on anything. - Sean McBride

Potsherd read the comments thread above. Mark e, listed a bunch of American attendees at a talk by the Israeli president and then wondered if "if there was anybody there who wasn't a full fledged parasite?" I asked for clarification of who he thought was a parasite and why and MRW told me that as a non-American, I don't count. Mark e was not saying anything about Israel that I or Sean... more... - GuiltyFeat

I find it absurd when any comment criticizing Israel is dismissed as anti-Semitic. But the counterpoint to that is the MW way of never being allowed to identify any comment as anti-Semitic even when it is clearly motivated by race-hatred rather than political disagreement. - GuiltyFeat

I think what mark e was thinking of was 'nepotism" in some Jewish dominated fields, which is widly known and accepted about the film industry and publishing and our media. Capote and a host of other well known American writers referred to the publishing world as the Jewish mafia because their books would be edited and or rejected for any mention of Jews or phrases that weren't... more... - American

It's a nice effort, American and it's good to see what a real apologist looks like, but your explanation doesn't really make sense in the context of Mark e's comment. He describes the attendees as "full fledged parasites" and, other than Nobel prize winner Shimon Peres, there wasn't another Israeli in the list. Out of interest, why did you feel the need to try and explain it so benignly... more... - GuiltyFeat

American -- ok. It's reasonable to point out that there is some pro-Israel and pro-Jewish bias in the American mainstream media (maybe more than some). Specific cases can be raised and substantively discussed -- Mearsheimer/Walt and Solzhenitsyn, for instance. But how do we get from there to Crystal, Streisand, Spielberg and others being "parasites"? I don't follow the logic. - Sean McBride

Just out of interest, do you believe that nepotism in the fields you describe as "Jewish dominated" is something specific to Jews? Is there any nepotism in fields which are not "Jewish dominated"? Do you believe there is something different about the the way Jews behave compared to non-Jews? Is a Jew 10% more likely to perpetrate an act of nepotism than a non-Jew? 20%? 50%? Your best estimate will do. - GuiltyFeat

American -- ethnic nepotism -- a fascinating topic, worthy of discussion. All ethnic groups practice ethnic nepotism to some degree -- that is human nature. Jews do it, Irish do it, Anglos do it, Italians do it, etc. But really: the success of Crystal, Streisand and Spielberg is due to ethnic nepotism? How about raw talent? Forget about whether you personally appreciate their work -- many people do. - Sean McBride

Sean - There is no logic, mark e just used the wrong phrase for what he meant I believe. No one who suceeds lilke Streisand gets there without talent and hard work. At the same time would a aspiring Jewish actor or writer find doors open more easily in a field dominated by Jewish executives in general. Maybe sometimes, but they do have to have some talent at least and work for it so parasite doesn't describe them.. - American

American, I'm so pleased you brought up Capote. I'm a big fan. In his Playboy interview in 1968, he specifically said that the "Jewish Mafia" was a state of mind rather than something that divided along racial lines. What do you think of Mark e's reductive use of the same idea into a way of vilifying Jews rather than criticizing the homogenization of American culture by Jews and non-Jews alike as Capote claimed he intended. - GuiltyFeat

So American, your opinion now is that Mark e misspoke? We're still waiting to hear from him, but I guess if he is willing to state that "parasites" was the wrong word to use and that he doesn't believe Billy Crystal, Barbra Streisand, Steven Spielberg, Jeffrey Katzenberg, Rich Ross, Les Moonves and Michael Lynton are "parasites" then we can write the whole episode off as an unfortunate... more... - GuiltyFeat

I'm a big fan of Capote, too, and know about the controversy over that remark. Capote was a very complex person with many self-contradictory impulses -- but a simpleminded Judeophobe he was not. He was too smart to be a bigot of any kind -- much too curious about human nature in general. - Sean McBride

Sean --- Did I say the "success" of Crystal and other was "due to" nepotism? No I didn't. I said that nepotismin Jewish dominated fields "may" open more doors for aspiring actors or writers. I have explained it. Nepotism exist, but the people you mention also have talent and work hard --- nothing contridictory about those two things. I think you could consider the case of Adam Creasily... more... - American

American -- nicely said in your last comment. And I agree that aspiring Jewish actors and artists might have an initial edge in the entertainment industry because Jews are a major presence in that world at the highest levels. But in the end, it's all about talent -- choosing the best talent is a smart business decision and the entertainment industry is interested in the bottom line. Matt Damon, Brad Pitt and George Clooney are all doing quite well, thank you, and they are hardly Jewish. - Sean McBride

Guilty Feat, Did MW provide a reason as to why they banned you? - Chu

Did you mean Adam Creasy? Do you have a link? - Sean McBride

Chu, no. I received no communication from them whatsoever. I just logged in one day to find that my comments were no longer accepted or even submitted to moderation. - GuiltyFeat

I recall you saying you were sick of the comments section and were deciding to quit. But I then saw in the comments that they booted you. - Chu

American, I'm also looking for some record of an "Adam Creasily". Also, are you suggesting that if this person (whoever he is) got a job at CNN or NBC he was specifically hired by Jews? Why? - GuiltyFeat

Chu I took some time off when patm was stalking me and trying to follow me on LinkedIn, Twitter etc. It was a little unnerving. But after about a month I was commenting as usual until there was some agitation to have me banned because I expressed the opinion that someone who wrote that Jews control Hollywood was a low-grade anti-Semite. I can only assume that they were successful in... more... - GuiltyFeat

GuiltyFeat: on the subject of Jewish influence in Hollywood, Shimon Peres seems to have raised it himself: "After Katzenberg introduced the Israeli leader as "a real hero," Peres spoke for less than 10 minutes, urging "close cooperation between Hollywood and Israel" and reminding the audience that "among the founders of Hollywood there were many Jewish people."" Peres is doing a bit of... more... - Sean McBride

I have no problem with pointing out there are some Jews who run Hollywood studios. I have a problem with the racist assumption that as Jews they will always place their allegiance to other Jews and to Israel ahead of their fiscal responsibility to their employees and shareholders. - GuiltyFeat

Ok -- but Shimon Peres is helping to raise questions about the degree to which Jews in Hollywood are emotionally involved with the Israeli interest -- in contradistinction to the American interest. He is appealing to their ethnic and/or religious loyalties to drum up support for a government that is controlled by the most right-wing extremists in the history of Israel and which is pursuing policies that could gravely harm the American interest. - Sean McBride

Sean....sorry didn't save the links and going to be busy for about 30 minutes then will have more to say on this ----but I did mispell the name, it's Adam Ciralsky and he's a producer now for CBS. You can google and find the info on him......if I remember correctly what nailed him was his contacts with AIPAC. Then there was some further interest or speculation about him in his posiiton... more... - American

GF and Sean - I agree that the "parasites" comment was questionable and I'd also like to know what he meant by it. Go ahead and criticize it as offensive, but NOT with the "classic antisemitic incitement" line. If a statement is offensive, it's offensive. Antisemites accused Jews for centuries of a "blood libel" too, so does that mean no one can use the word "blood" if it's aimed... more... - potsherd

GF: http://articles.latimes.com/2008... - MRW

Peres was telling Hollywood to create more movies that promote Israel. "The children believe the actors more than politicians." "close cooperation between Hollywood and Israel." Implied in that, from my POV, is a request to make more movies that place Israel in a shining light, and more anti-Islamic movies. Employees and shareholders are well-protected under US laws to have their... more... - MRW

Says Joel Stein in the Los Angeles Times: "Jews totally run Hollywood." http://articles.latimes.com/2008... (Interesting article, MRW.) - Sean McBride

If Peres really cared about Israel, he would be urging Hollywood to boycott Israel immediately and help save it from itself. - Sean McBride

GF...you were banned at MW for the same thing you are doing here----which is turning every topic under discussion away from the actual subject and 'into' one of anti semitism and accusing people of anti semitism. As in this thread where the subject was Israeli use of Jewish dominated fields to propagandize and gain support for Israel and zionism. Your passive aggressive approach to... more... - American

Hollywood has another charter: meet the customers' needs. Everyone I know, and I mean 99.99% of them are fed up with Holocaust movies, both here in the US and Canada. It's like enough already. We've had over a quarter of a century of them flogging WWII from that POV. And no amount of PR saves these movies outside of the NYC-DC corridor: they go straight to video or online. - MRW

Analogy: lipstick:pig; Peres:Israel under Likud/Netanyahu. - Sean McBride

Hmmmm, my throwaway comment of parasites started a tempest in a tea cup. Did a hasbara troll arrive? Ah, yes, super settler (ss, for short) got it started. :) Anyway, parasite wasn't supposed to be about those people being Jewish since I don't know if they all are, beyond the obvious famous ones. I could care less if they were Jewish. It's a condemnation of the showbiz industry, which... more... - mark e

I get just as pissed at US WWII propaganda movies that have caused the majority of Americans to have a totally warped idea of our own history. We got the Tea Party movement as soon as Obama was elected because people believed the movies they saw as a kid about the American Revolution being ignited by the Boston Tea Party, when that was a complete fallacy. (The truth? It was the British... more... - MRW

mark e -- who are your favorite directors? - Sean McBride

Ernst Lubitsch. ;-) - MRW

I had to look him up. :) - mark e

mark e -- this is the propaganda strain you stumbled into: Google [jews parasites] http://www.google.com/#q=jews... See this for instance: German Propaganda Archive http://www.calvin.edu/academi... - Sean McBride

"Peres spoke for less than 10 minutes, urging "close cooperation between Hollywood and Israel" I've yet to see any film critical of Israel come out of hollywood. I've also yet to see any film from those bigoted turds which portrayed Arabs and Muslims as human beings. What does the sweet talking nazi peres want? "Rambo" as an Israeli settler, running amok about Gaza with a machine gun... more... - mark e

Sean McBride - "mark e -- who are your favorite directors?" The person who directed this, who ever they are, is one. :) http://www.youtube.com/watch... - mark e

What's even worse are the distribution companies, who will not allow foreign fare that is critical of Israel to get wide distribution in the US. THAT is where the problem lies. Guess who owns the distribution companies? - MRW

Beware becoming more MW than MW where it concerns anti semitism. My interest in discussion of US-Isr-I/P-ME issue is just those elements. I am not interested in raising anti semitism toward Jews. I am also not interested in protecting Jews from anti semitism induced by Israel and zionism. Those two entities are the responsibility of the general Jewish collective and they can fall or... more... - American

"GF...you were banned at MW for the same thing you are doing here----which is turning every topic under discussion away from the actual subject and 'into' one of anti semitism and accusing people of anti semitism." Your evidence for this? - GuiltyFeat

"Everyone I know, and I mean 99.99% of them are fed up with Holocaust movies, both here in the US and Canada. It's like enough already." Interesting. There are conservatively 150 movies released every year into cinemas. Could you please, off the top of your head name three Holocaust movies in the past 10 years (say since 2002) that have contributed to the overwhelming "enough already"... more... - GuiltyFeat

"I am also not interested in protecting Jews from anti semitism induced by Israel and zionism." You reveal yourself here, American, to be a very American kind of bigot. Anti-Semitism is no more caused by Israel and Zionism than Islamophobia is caused by Syria, Al Qaida and the Taliban. The Ku Klux Klan don't hate black people because they form a disproportionately high volume of the US... more... - GuiltyFeat

"What's even worse are the distribution companies, who will not allow foreign fare that is critical of Israel to get wide distribution in the US." MRW, please give an example of a foreign movie, critical of Israel where the makers have claimed that they were denied distribution in America because of the contents of the movie. I call bullshit on this statement of yours and would like to... more... - GuiltyFeat

I see three of my last four comments are all asking for evidence and clarification on wild statements that have been made here. I hope you will all hold me to the same standard if I make a claim about something being more than just one man's opinion. I know a lot of shit gets bandied about here as if it were fact, but I like there to be a healthy distinction between opinion and truth. - GuiltyFeat

"However I do not consider it anti semitism to criticize 'group traits or general attitudes" of Jews when there is sufficient reason and evidence to do so" I get that, American, except that's kind of the very definition of bigotry. You are willing to decide that all Jews (of all ages, genders, nationalities, and political beliefs) share some group traits and general attitudes based on... more... - GuiltyFeat

GF - do your own homework. It's easy enough with a good search engine. You can start with Valley of the Wolves and go from there. - MRW

"You are willing to decide that all Jews (of all ages, genders, nationalities, and political beliefs) share some group traits and general attitudes based on rules that you have determined." That's Israel's definition of a Jew WORLDWIDE for automatic entry into the Jewish State. - MRW

I am not the least bit concerned with being a bigot by your definition. The issue of Jews as group supporting Israel "Politically" makes them a "political player", as such they will be criticized like any other political group with a belief or agenda. If their religion makes them a zionist or Israel supporter in the way some Christians are conservative supporters or in the way some... more... - American

The main purpose of hasbara trolls like gf on forums like this one is not to sway people into becoming pro-zionist, they spam this kind of site to disrupt it and get everyone arguing about irrelevant stuff, sow dissension and get people hostile to each other. Divide and conquer. The usual tactic is to claim that someone is an antisemite, since practically anything can be twisted to look... more... - mark e

Take a conversation about nazis and what they have done. Along comes a poster claiming one of the others (or all of them) is being anti-German, for whatever bs reason. The conversation then gets turned into everyone trying to justify their criticism of nazis, and prove they are not anti-German to the satisfaction of the troll. And he keeps coming up with new ways to "prove" they are... more... - mark e

mark e....Agreed. Ignore. GF not even a good zionist troll, just wants 'personal gratification" by game playing about Jews, not issues. - American

I didn't realize that's what I was doing and that FriendFeed was a "perceived anti Zionist forum". Live and learn I guess. But mark I think you're misinformed about which one of us is the troll and which one of us is prepared to engage in intelligent debate. Let's ask Sean. Sean if I was to say that I can't be bothered to deal with a moron like mark e. anymore but that I would like to... more... - GuiltyFeat from iPhone

GuiltyFeat -- you asked for some concrete evidence to back up several assertions that were made in this thread -- seems like a reasonable request to me. And it's reasonable for others here to request that you back up any assertions you make with concrete evidence. Let the best evidence declare itself in any of these disagreements. - Sean McBride

mark e -- Nine of my favorite movie directors of all time: 1. Alfred Hitchcock 2. Chrisopher Nolan 3. Francis Ford Coppola 4. Joel and Ethan Coen 5. Martin Scorsese 6. Orson Welles 7. Quentin Tarantino 8. Stanley Kubrick 9. Woody Allen. Four of them are Jewish: the two Coens, Kubrick and Allen. Make of that what you will. :) - Sean McBride

Sean McBride - "Four of them are Jewish: the two Coens, Kubrick and Allen. Make of that what you will." OK, why is it important enough to you that you know their religion, at least the religion of the Jewish directors? BTW, do you know which religion the others practiced? No cheating looking it up on the web, now. ;) I don't know what religion my favorite directors practice (for example... more... - mark e

It's not that important for me to know the religion and ethnicity of my favorite directors, but I know because one simply knows these things if one is strongly interested in film, literature, music or some other branch of the arts. I guess my main point is that their success is the product of their talent -- not of ethnic nepotism or tribalism. - Sean McBride

Fascinating facts: Religious Affiliation of the Directors of the American Film Institute's 100 Years ... 100 Movies List, The 100 Greatest American Movies http://www.adherents.com/movies... - Sean McBride

Sean McBride - I've seen or read several interviews with Kubrick, yet I never remembered or retained the info about him being Jewish, if it was even mentioned. Your list of religious affiliations is something I never would think of looking up to find out. It's not even something I would think even existed. :) I'll look up people at imdb.com to find out what they have worked on,... more... - mark e

GF- "Anti-Semitism is no more caused by Israel and Zionism than Islamophobia is caused by Syria, Al Qaida and the Taliban. The Ku Klux Klan don't hate black people because they form a disproportionately high volume of the US prison population. You, I'm afraid, have everything arse-backwards. There was racism before all these convenient excuses arose to make bigots feel good about... more... - anonymouscomments

After cast lead she said to me "I used to think the Jews and Israel were special, but now I don't know....". Clearly she was already a bit of a "racialist" with little nuance to her understanding of the world. I tried to set her straight regarding Jews being neither here nor there.... just a complex and varied group with some intense things going on in the past and present. But I think her view was forever changed, and she is now likely a little antisemitic. Score one point for Israel. - anonymouscomments

Now let me bring up 2 other very salient Israeli issues when it comes to fostering antisemitism. The USS liberty undoubtably drives some service members (who find out about it), to harbor animosity towards Israel. The fact that American Jews likely created the political environment where such an act could be attempted, let alone covered up by the elected officials, can very... more... - anonymouscomments

Then we have the isolation of the US from the entire WORLD when it comes to Israel, a situation of grave global importance. There is no rational US-centric explanation for *much* of the US position on Israel for a great many years. You can even look back into how the CIA and state dept viewed partition itself. Jewish influence in US domestic politics played a key role in creating this... more... - anonymouscomments

Yet another prominent event would be the Iraq war, which is likely going to be a defining moment in the decline in America. Why did we invade Iraq? Well, MIC profits mattered, some right wing "geostrategy".... but also.... people who looked out for Israel's interests, or foolishly considered US and Israeli interests as one and the same (their very political ideology allowed to flourish... more... - anonymouscomments

And just to really lay it out there..... 9/11 was undeniably, upon my analysis, and inside job. Again, this is not a "Jewish" event.... Cheney and all the Iran-Contra nutters and so many others were involved. But it is likely that Israel-firsters played a supporting role, if not a key supporting role, despite the variable elements that "profited". In fact, the Mossad very likely did... more... - anonymouscomments

GF- Also, you act like islamophobia would exist in its present form without 9/11 or the *various* players trying to foster it, many right wing Zionists right out in front. Forget the role the media has played in fostering islamophobia, especially FOX "news". Sorry GF... but there is a right wing Zionist attempt to increase islamophobia, even if 9/11 was nothing but lucky Saudis with box... more... - anonymouscomments

Anonymous, your comments are first class and I have no issue with them except that the racism existed before Israel and it will continue to exist regardless of how Israel treats the Palestinians. Your Korean friend was and remains the same racist using absurd reference points to extrapolate the behavior of 14 million people whether her conclusion is we're all smart, we're all good with... more... - GuiltyFeat from iPhone

In closing... any form of generalized bigotry often has a "kernel of truth". When the "kernel" actually represents something that is problematic, perpetuates or foments injustice, and represents undue influence and subversion, this "kernel" should be digested by said community, out of their own self-interest. Many American Jews see the writing on the wall, and realize there ARE issues... more... - anonymouscomments

[And I agree regarding my Korean coworker... Jewish fetishization is the opposite side of the antisemitism coin, and ethnic/religious worldview paradigms can be flipped... her worldview is inherently flawed, but so many exhibit her same flawed conception of "groups"/religions/identity.... and Israeli actions can and do cause this "flip". In fact, some Christians are starting to react to... more... - anonymouscomments

I once read a quote by a prominent Zionist, Abba Eban I believe, that stated that Israel should always court world powers for support, and gave switching from GB to France and the U.S. as needed as an example. That's the very definition of parasitic, and if Israeli politicians are advising Jews in Hollywood to propagandize American audiences for the sake of Israel, well, that may not be... more... - Todd

I don't think I have ever met a person who didn't hold some bigoted thoughts, so I take anti-bigots with a grain of salt. And to find Jewishness annoying is mainly a matter of taste. Really, antisemitism doesn't mean much as long as a person isn't actively harming innocent Jews for being Jews. For the most part, the charge of antisemitism is aimed at those who wish to bring guilty Jews... more... - Todd

Please define what you mean by annoying Jewishness. - GuiltyFeat

It's such a dull cliche to claim that the accusation of anti-Semitism is only used to beat up people who criticize Israel. I have never used it like that. I use it only to highlight the irrational prejudices some people have against people they have never met whose parents were Jewish. American displays these prejudices, mark e is an out and out Jew-hater and Landon is a bloody white... more... - GuiltyFeat

Then, leave. - MRW

I said I would if Sean tells me he prefers to hear from mark e than from me. Your opinion, on the other hand, is of significantly less concern. - GuiltyFeat

GF. Now I recall why you were banned from MW. It's all coming back now how you thread jack. Why dont you start a thread for discussion instead of policing the discussion. Post something about Israel for discussion. - Chu from iPhone

Really Chu? Is that why I was banned? Your evidence, please? I love how people throw around the accusation of thread-jacking as a way of avoid answering hard questions. So, Chu, in the context of this thread, Todd wrote about people who find Jewishness annoying. What do you think he meant? I think he's a bit of a racist. I'm betting you'll refuse to comment. - GuiltyFeat

GuiltyFeat -- I can't conduct all your arguments for you. :) You saw how I addressed this issue above in earlier comments in this thread. If you have a beef with Todd, take it up with him -- debate him on whatever facts you think he got wrong. Regarding "my community" -- I'm a community of one. I think for myself and don't try to tell others how to think. - Sean McBride

I'll tell you what I find annoying these days -- too much ethnic or religious militancy and self-obsession among *any* groups -- and I am particularly put off by messianic and xenophobic ethnic and/or religious nationalism. "Annoyed" doesn't begin to cover it. This is no way to live -- bogged down in ethnic and religious conflicts. - Sean McBride

GuiltyFeat -- Likud Zionists, religious Zionists, fanatical settlers, price tag attacks, AIPAC, neoconservatives, etc. represent a much greater threat to Diaspora Jews than traditional antisemites. You need to start addressing that issue -- you aren't focused on the most serious threat to your own interests as (apparently) you define them. - Sean McBride

Could you explain that please? In what way do religious Zionists represent a greater threat to diaspora Jews than traditional anti-Semites. As a Jew growing up in London I was only ever spat on and punched by traditional anti-Semites. I was not aware of the threat that the Likud posed to me. - GuiltyFeat

GF: you are not thinking strategically. Religious Zionists, both Jewish and Christian, 1. are pursuing an aggressive and messianic Greater Israel ideology 2. have destroyed the peace process 3. are driving Americans into a series of self-destructive Mideast wars that could collapse the US and global economy 4. have loudly presented themselves to the world as the official spokespersons... more... - Sean McBride

GF -- regarding religious Zionism, see here: http://friendfeed.com/mondowe... - Sean McBride

GF "I'm betting you'll refuse to comment". I read where you said you were punched in London, I believe facilitating your aliyah. (You said that before on Mondoweiss as well). Did they hit you because you were Jewish? - Chu

That minor incident did not facilitate my Aliyah. I made aliyah when I was 26 and married with a kid. I was punched in the face outside the cinema when I was 15 after seeing Gremlins. I believe it was a racially motivated punch, yes, but I didn't stop and ask for details. - GuiltyFeat

"I believe it was a racially motivated punch, yes, but I didn't stop and ask for details." How were identified as a Jew? What year was this? - MRW

I am surprised GF agreed with my comments above. So I guess the mystery is solved.... GF is hypersensitive to antisemitism, but admits it is also (unclear X% of the time) connected to Israeli and collective Jewish actions, but likes to focus on borderline comments by people here on FF or MW. He should be screaming about the violent colonization of the West Bank, among other things, but instead he attacks people when they might (possibly) harbor a general dislike of Jews, in the general sense. - anonymouscomments

MRW: It was December 1984. I was wearing a kippah. - GuiltyFeat

Anonymous. You misunderstand me. I am screaming about the colonization of the West Bank. I think the settlers are lunatics putting everyone in danger and there should be an immediate withdrawal to 67 borders. I have learned so much from visiting MW, but I can't get my head round the fact that many commenters use their righteous indignation at Israel as a smokescreen for prejudice. It... more... - GuiltyFeat

"If you weeded out the loonies and pushed spokespeople like Annie and Phil and Sean to the forefront, your arguments would gain traction faster." This is wishful thinking. Who says that saying it politely is going to make the Israeli gov't listen more? Your Gov't believes might makes right after all. I think you are hypersensitive, and that’s fine, but Todd is not going to hunt you down... more... - Chu

GF- "... but it's freakjobs like Todd that keep the moderates from voting him out." man, get over the AS (which is real, but not ANYTHING like what we have seen historically.... anti-gay, anti-arab, and anti-black crimes/discrimination are orders of magnitude higher.... and jews now *are* the establishment in the US, you can't say the truth about israel, let alone broadcast actual... more... - anonymouscomments

BTW- i think 9/11 has NO place in the debate for palestinian rights. that is a geopolitical issue, of grave importance to humanity, and the trajectory of the US. if i was a face of the movement, i wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. i think the MW rule is smart. but this is FF, and we all share info and speak our minds here. i think 9/11 was an inside job, i think it likely mossad... more... - anonymouscomments

GF- sorry for all the CAPS, but i did get a little upset. this is not to indicate i take AS lightly, but i do not feel compelled to police it with a *hypersensitive* eye, leveling the serious charge even if i lack solid evidence. and i do NOT blame political realities on the fact that there are ASs out there. to see how thin your skin is, and how absurd you sound, IMAGINE if you where... more... - anonymouscomments

GF -- yes, I've been obnoxious and told you you haven't read enough books (I am trying to provoke you to display the erudition you may be hiding or have overlooked), but I agree with most of your statements in the comment above. I think a very sharp line needs to be drawn between legitimate criticism of Israel and expressions of raw (or even latent) antisemitism -- otherwise all efforts... more... - Sean McBride

Sean- I largely agree with you, and I appreciate the way you tenderly nudge any anti-Semites that pop up. But I have a question for GF- does he spend much time policing Israelis themselves for anti-Arab and anti-Muslim bigotry? Or does he just realize it's so pervasive it's a nonstarter? Also, does he understand that too aggressive enforcing of what *might* suggest someone is an... more... - anonymouscomments

I think GF is coming 'round but he needs to not feel disgusted by the sense of antisemitism that may or may not lie beneath the surface. Tough talk about Israel is going to exist as long as they continue to act as a pariah. - Chu from iPhone

That's what I meant earlier. These Israeli trolls take over the forum and turn every conversation to be about their own slander, slurs, lies, personal failings, what have you. Anything that distracts from the subject at hand will do. As long as the subject isn't Muslim demonizing or deferential zionist worshiping and propaganda dispension. - mark e

i hear you. they need to focus on the bigger problems, namely the 4 decades occupation. - Chu

I hear u both. I'm done with laying out the reasons why antisemitism is often linked to Israeli actions and Jewish politics, and laying out why *unsupported* charges of antisemitsm are unhelpful and way beside the point. Maybe GF will alter what he focuses on, as we have focused on this enough already. Sean is good at picking up and outing any real anti-Semites or antisemitic lines of though anyways. - anonymouscomments

I think it is just precious that someone who ADMITS that he moved to Palestine to live with his own Jewish people, and supports Israel, calls me a racist or a bigot. That's just priceless! I honestly don't give one kosher damn about his sensitivities. And matzo balls can pour from the skies before I shudder at the accusation of antisemitism. I don't really know what the term even means... more... - Todd

It simply means, Todd, that you are prejudiced about someone who calls themselves a Jew before you have met or heard what they have to say. You're a bigot and a racist and a bit of a pratt. I want to thank everyone for the advice. I have now blocked Todd so I won't see his comments and he won't see mine. I abhor censorship (such as MW banning me from commenting), but I simply don't have time in the day to deal with his petty unacknowledged bigotry. - GuiltyFeat

Wow, that hurt! I hope he enjoys his ethno-state. - Todd

Mondoweiss on Friendfeed: Sean McBride

Hostage is one of the deepest thinkers on Mondoweiss -- perhaps *the* deepest thinker. A big vision guy with an incredible command of all the small details.

March 8, 2012 - Comment - Like - Share

American and Chu liked this

Check out this comment: http://mondoweiss.net/2012... - Sean McBride

65 more comments

My reply (without the paragraph breaks): "Hostage, Wow! What a great post by you in the comment you linked to, and what an enlightening quote from Hannah Arendt on this subject. This is precisely the kind of thoughtful discussion I was looking for and which Shmuel and Leander so far have failed to provide. This is the link:... more... - Sean McBride

Hostage is a bad ass. Hostage should write a book. Is Hostage a lawyer?. - Chu

I don't know if Hostage is a lawyer, but the range of his knowledge on a wide variety of subjects (including Mideast politics) bowls me over. He is a precious asset. (As are Philip Weiss and Jeffrey Blankfort.) - Sean McBride

Outstanding! Hostage is real history. What I been saying based on my own amateurish research ---that ancient Jewish persecution is another myth. The conflicts were always a two way street. - American

In persistent ethnic and religious conflicts -- particularly conflicts that extend over centuries and millennia -- there is always plenty of blame to spread around. (And many brilliant Jews have delved deeply into that subject with objectivity and fairness.) - Sean McBride

GalenSword knows a lot about Jewish Persecution. He was banned from Mondoweiss years ago under the name Joachim Martillo. http://mondoweiss.net/2009... - Chu

I remember reading some of Martillo's writings in my browsing of the Web on Mideast politics. He made me uncomfortable. Clearly has has mastered much literature on this subject and knows what he is talking about, but in the blame game I felt intuitively that he was overemphasizing the Jewish factor. It would be easy for anti-Semites to exploit and abuse his historical investigations.... more... - Sean McBride

What stands out about the Jewish vr others conflict is that it went so far as to' create' the demand for a separate Jewish nation. We can't compare it exactly with religious majority nations like Muslim because they were 'naturally' already existing for centuries. So how is it explained? I don't think Israel would have ever actually gotten off the ground had it not been for the holocaust. Without the holocaust I think zionism would possibly have been a 'colony' entity somewhere but not a nation. - American

He has a interesting position: David F says it well: "I have also missed Martillo’s commentary. His rhetoric can be quite provacative and a bit nutty, but his possesses a truly extraordinary level of knowledge of Eastern European history and Zionism." Joachim said that Bohdan Khmelnytsky was thought of as the earlier Hitler to Jews in Eastern Europe, but I can't find his post on that topic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Chu

The Holocaust was absolutely essential in kickstarting Israel into life -- and, as we can see from Benjamin Netanyahu's recent comments in pressuring the United States to attack Iran -- it is still the chief propaganda weapon in its arsenal -- and a highly effective one. - Sean McBride

Here is Phil Weiss on Martillo: "We delinked Joachim Martillo because of his endless Jewbashing. But he’s smart. Here he is on Israeli ambassador Michael Oren‘s hogwashian scholarship in Power Faith and Fantasy, which says the US has been Zionist from jump street...." As usual, Phil is smart and nuanced. He is tryng to sort through all these issues with relentless honesty. - Sean McBride

Is Martillo Jewish? If so, what I have noticed is some Jewish writers, researchers, historians are more condemnatory , or angry, I guess you could say about all the misinformation or myth in Jewish history once they discover it. It's far more personal to them than to a non Jewish individual. It's like a betrayal. - American

One can see the same pattern in the critiques of Christianity, Roman Catholicism, etc. by former Christians, Roman Catholics, etc. who know the game from the inside. They tend to be much less restrained in deconstructing their former beliefs than outsiders. - Sean McBride

Interesting wki article. It mentioned what I would like to see Hostage take up. That is the use of Jews as collectors/enforces for the crown and noblemen >>>( "The result was an eradication of the control of the Polish szlachta and their Jewish intermediaries">>>>"This Szlachta, along with the actions of the upper-class Polish Magnates, oppressed the lower-class Ruthenians, with the... more... - American

See this book on the "middlemen" issue in general: Benjamin Ginsberg; 1993; The Fatal Embrace: Jews and the State; University of Chicago Press - Sean McBride

American see link in MW post titled "Traditional Jewish Attitudes Toward Poles" by Mark Paul http://mondoweiss.net/2010... - Chu

I have no problem with Martillo. If other people find him threatening or kooky, I at least find him to be more honest then Weiss--and far less likely to go on about Jewish superiority, when he is much more of an example of Jewish talent than Weiss is. - Todd

I like Martillo as well, he gives you his unbiased opinion. He's not a politician. - Chu

Chu, thanks for two links back to mondo. I only read Mondo infrequently back in 2009 -10, didn't start regularly with MW until the last year. In addition to the info, it's interesting to me to notice that really nothing has changed about some of Phil's attitudes about Jewishness and also that many things discussed now have been discussed before. - American

But Weiss will probably be much more effective in moving the needle on debate about Israel. As for his open acknowledgement of his Jewishness and grounding in Jewish culture -- I dig that. That's who he is. I would be alarmed if he didn't acknowledge that. It gives him cred. I believe him. He is a believable person. - Sean McBride

Hostage is a retired USAF military officer who was deeply involved with international law. He lives in fly-over-country. Hostage's self-descriptions: http://mondoweiss.net/2012... . . . http://mondoweiss.net/2011... . . . Here he demolishes... more... - MRW

"We delinked Joachim Martillo because of his endless Jewbashing. But he’s smart. Here he is on" Apparently the pettiness, hypocrisy and dishonesty that surrounded the banning of Blankfort is nothing new at Mondoweiss. It seems that any criticism of Jews, or anything Jewish, beyond the most pollyannaish of criticism, is viewed by Weiss as "Jewbashing" or antisemitic. It was Weiss's Judeo-supremacy or Jewish centric attitude that put me off the site. - mark e

Hostage is the real deal. - Sean McBride

Chu, how do you know GalenSword was Martillo? Martillo had far more smarts when he commented on teh site (before the archives) than GalenSword ever showed, IMO. - MRW

The delinking of Joachim Martillo was in the blogroll. - MRW

I think Martillo said that he is also GalenSword, and GalenSword's profile is pretty much the same as Martillo's. As far as showing less smarts goes, I would imagine that Martillo simply tired of the abuse coming his way and backed off. - Todd

Sean, about "Jews and the Fatal Embrace"...I had heard of that book and just took at look at the reviews on it. >>>>>"A forceful study of the relationship between Jews and the state. Ginsberg (The Captive Public, 1986) contends that Jews have frequently sought the protection of the state as a response to the hostile attitudes and actions of their neighbors--but that when Jews achieve... more... - American

American -- I read the Ginsberg book some years ago. My impression then was that he was quite nuanced in describing the complex relations between Jews and Gentile power elites. I need to reread the book to discuss the details. In no way at all would I describe him as a simplistic propagandist on these matters. - Sean McBride

"Hostage is one of the deepest thinkers on Mondoweiss -- perhaps *the* deepest thinker. A big vision guy with an incredible command of all the small details." He's also got on helluva computer search system, and continuing access to databases most don't. I'd love to know where he went to school. It was probably one of the military colleges at some point in his life; they leave Harvard... more... - MRW

MRW, if you check galensword profile, his web address he lists is eaazi.blogspot.com - Chu

Sean, you don't have to be a total or simple propagandist to hold the line on the " Jews are victims", which is the most important bulwark built to prevent Jews as group from being looked at and judged as any other group. And you can do this in a very nuanced way. Consider how fearful you are of criticism of Jews as group incting anit semitism. The holocaust is the retaining wall for... more... - American

Thanks, Chu. - MRW

I also don't have a problem with Phil hanging onto his identity, I do think it makes a difference in how he views criticism of anything Jewish and anyone who does bring up anything negative that isn't strictly aimed at zionist and sometime even at zionist like Blankfort did in the Transfer agreement fight. As Confucius said...to know a thing you must first divorce yourself from all love... more... - American

I agree that Weiss' willingness to acknowledge his inner conflicts regarding aspects of his jewish identity gives him an important credibility. For example, he was willing to be interviewed by Atzmon, many of whose ideas he doesn't "truck with," knowing these aspects would be poked at and held up for inspection. This willingness is part of why I don't think it was his his idea to ban... more... - chauncey

I have no problem with Weiss being as Jewish as he wishes, but he shouldn't claim to be a universalist or an assimilationist at the same time. Much of his ethnic chauvinism would be harshly denounced in a white European. For what it's worth, I don't see Weiss as much more than a soft Zionist and a gatekeeper for Jewish power. In all honesty, I don't believe that Weiss wants a rollback... more... - Todd

I don't know exactly what Phil wants for Israel. I haven't picked up on that, maybe someone else has. As for his assimilation, he has stated that he is American first and Jewish second. But that is a good point about ethnic chauvinism. If WASP were always talking about how we established civilization or all the 'contributions' WASP had made or how intelligence and superior WASP were we... more... - American

chauncey: I agree. Others here: I have seen no signs of Jewish ethnic supremacism or chauvinism in Phil Weiss's writings -- quite the contrary -- he can be highly critical of the Jewish establishment and of negative strains in Jewish culture -- and he often is. The core mission of Mondoweiss is an epic affront to the Jewish establishment. Do you have any particular quotes to support... more... - Sean McBride

Keep this in mind: Phil is probably under immense pressure behind the scenes. The Israel lobby is probably going to try to "adjust his attitude" using any means, fair or foul, that work. Remember Richard Goldstone. So far Mondoweiss overall is still on track with its original mission and hasn't been pulling any punches. - Sean McBride

Todd - That's close to what I think also. They're there to keep the dialog from transcending into something that could actually effect the status quo. There is a certain distance, beyond which they proclaim "verbotten". This is where the hatred of people like Atzmon comes from, he goes way beyond their verbotten line and exposes what he sees as the roots of Jewish problems with... more... - mark e

And consider this: how many blogs in the world have stimulated so much high-quality discussion as Mondoweiss? MW is a real phenomenon in terms of inspiring a torrent of thoughtful feedback. - Sean McBride

mark e and Todd: which online publications on Mideast politics do you prefer to Mondoweiss? - Sean McBride

Sean McBride - I bounce around between quite a few sites, some regularly, some infrequently. Most of the sites I regularly read are more broad in scope than MW and provide a better "big picture" view. MW is good for the day to day Israeli atrocities against the Palestinians, they are so so on Jewish-zionist influence on the USA and less than so so outside it. MW is very piss-poor on... more... - mark e

mark e -- what are your top 5 favorite sites/publications on Mideast politics? - Sean McBride

Sean McBride - I don't have any favorites on the ME. - mark e

mark e -- it seems to me that MW's main focus is analyzing the activities of the Israel lobby -- and this it does very well -- better than Stephen Walt, Glenn Greenwald, Richard Silverstein, Juan Cole and other bloggers in that class. - Sean McBride

mark e -- does any other blog provoke as much engagement from you as MW? - Sean McBride

Sean McBride - I view more news sites than blogs. Now same questions to you. - mark e

mark e -- blogs? Weiss, Greenwald, Walt, Silverstein, Sullivan, Cole, Lang and Lobe among others. - Sean McBride

Publications on Middle East politics I pay attention to: 1. +972 2. American Conservative 3. Andrew Sullivan 4. Antiwar.com 5. Antony Loewenstein 6. Atlas Shrugs 7. Commentary 8. Consortiumnews 9. Counterpunch 10. Debkafile 11. Democracy Now 12. Dissident Voice 13. FailedMessiah.com 14. Forward 15. Glenn Greenwald 16. GlobalResearch 17. Haaretz 18. Information Clearing House 19.... more... - Sean McBride

I don't know why we are concentrating on Phil but I will say this----when I first started reading the site what hit me first was Phil seemed more concerned or as concerned with I/P being something 'not worthy of and reflecting badly on Jews" more so than he saw the horror and injustice of it re real human Palestine. I think I have seen a shift in that since his trips to the area. Maybe... more... - American

I have started reading Aztmons blog lately and would love to see a combination of people like Blankfort, and Grant Smith --the guys who really, really know something and know the players and where the bodies are buried and the nature of zios and the lobby do a blog. - American

I will suggest if anyone wants to keep up with the zio and neos are up to they should go to AEI and the Heritage monthy and look at papers they are putting out...which all find their way to congress . And it pays to go Govtrack and check out what congress is doing. Just stick Israel or your subject in the search function and watch the bills and resolutions roll out. - American

Sean McBride - Sites I visit daily, or almost daily are google and yahoo news, to get a general idea what happened since the last time I logged on the web. Other dailies are GlobalResearch, Counterpunch, antiwar, Informationclearinghouse, dissident voice and MRZine. Lately I've been checking RT, also. Infrequently there are many sites I visit, some like once or twice a week, some maybe... more... - mark e

Sean, I don't really read many other blogs on the mideast. If I look at a site on the topic these days, it's often the site of someone that was banned from MW, such as Martillo, Chris Moore or Richard Witty. Foreign Policy is often good. But I find the commenters make the site, and Mondoweiss had the best comment section that I knew of, and many of the commenters that I really enjoyed seem to be on this site. - Todd

MW is one of the sites that supported the 2009 Mossad/CIA regime change against Iran. They also ran propaganda supporting the same in their Libya war crimes and also the ones against Syria. What I find MW most useful for is for seeing what politically inclined, liberal American Jewish people are thinking about Israel and themselves, besides what I said before. And until recently, I only... more... - mark e

mark e -- what is RT? - Sean McBride

RT.com is a Russian website. - Chu

What is RT's political orientation and reputation? - Sean McBride

for what it's worth, here's the wiki article. see the section below controversies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Chu

RT is Russia Today. They are a government sponsored non-profit, sort of like NPR. They can be much more hard hitting, and are less affected by zionist loyalties, though those views are present. Their political orientation appears to be liberal to the right. I think I've seen a few people on the left interviewed, but mostly they have centrists and righties on. - mark e

Chu - I'm only familiar with the RT that is on the web (rt.com and their youtube account), and didn't know RT had those other services. But that wikipedia entry is the usual biased crap once you get to the section called "4 Controversies and criticisms" and is a typical example of why wikipedia is useless except for bios of uncontroversial popular musicians. :) The things criticized... more... - mark e

I hear you Mark. I did say here's the wiki article for what it's worth. I have listened to their RT here and they and of course their conspiracy theories over the years. For me they're another valid source for information. - Chu

I will add RT to my list of publications to pay attention to. - Sean McBride

Since we're talking about RT, I thought I'd post up this example of some of their better programing: "Super Tuesday a 'Super Letdown' as America realizes that her Presidential Candidates 'Just Suck' http://rt.com/program... They are a mainstream site that does the news like alternative sites do. If you got a spare 1/2 hour, this particular show is worth the time. - mark e

PressTV is good too. - MRW

Definitely. - mark e

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Responding to commenters on recent bannings - http://mondoweiss.net/2012...

March 1, 2012 from Mondoweiss - Comment - Like - Share

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Following the announcement of our new comments policy, there’s been considerable criticism of Adam Horowitz and me for a lack of transparency in banning decisions. We never explained commenter bannings in the past, but given the celebrity of Richard Witty … Continue reading →

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My comment at Mondoweiss: Phil, I appreciate your thoughtful and graceful explanation for Mondoweiss editorial policies. Any discussion about the issues you have raised that is not appropriate for Mondoweiss can be pursued here: http://friendfeed.com/mondowe... And in this specific thread:... more... - Sean McBride

Sean McBride: didn't see you had brought this one over already. I'll try and delete mine. It's now deleted. - mark e

From Weiss: "Richard Witty and Jeffrey Blankfort, both of whom I consider friends" I suspect Blankfort might crack a rib laughing over that. - mark e

mark e -- are you beginning to appreciate the flexibility of this software platform for organizing discussions? :) In any case, I think Phil was trying to be diplomatic, which is the smart thing to do. - Sean McBride

Deleting one's own posts is easy: Edit > Delete this entry. You have total control over your own posts, and can edit or delete them at any time in the future. - Sean McBride

Perhaps a new subtitle at Mondoweiss might be in order? Mondoweiss: A Place For Liberal Zionist Jewish People To Advocate Reform In The Homeland - mark e

Phil's main point: to be effective politically, one must be careful not to allow criticism of Israel and the Israel lobby to drift into anti-Semitic hate speech. I strongly agree. I would disagree, however, that Jeff Blankfort has made any anti-Semitic statements (and I don't think that Phil made that accusation). - Sean McBride

mark e -- Phil Weiss is by no conceivable stretch of the imagination a "liberal Zionist," in my humble opinion. But he does find anti-Semitic hate speech to be intolerable, as should we all. Defining what that hate speech is is problematic, but it is doable. Certainly any attempt to incite hostility towards Jews in general on the basis of actions by the Israeli government or Israel lobby would qualify. - Sean McBride

Regarding Phil's wish to engage in reasonable discussion with mainstream Zionists (and even extreme right-wing Zionists) -- of course we should be doing that. The truth will out through fair and open debate. - Sean McBride

I love this paragraph: "We preserved Witty’s presence here over the years because he was a stand-in for American Zionist opinion and there was value in having his voice. But in the end the moderators agreed that Richard had become a troll, pulling the conversation away from the thread, repeating arguments, causing moderators too much work." So they remove Witty and add half a dozen less witty Witty spam-alikes, plus open the site up to crypto-zionist witch hunts against anti-zionists. - mark e

Sean McBride - I've seen this thing happen too many times before not recognize the code change. I'll have to disagree with you here. With regard to Weiss, I recommend a German film from the 70's called Mephisto. The film is based upon a real person, but they changed his role. In the film he tries to get along while at the same time tries to help his friends. The real person was much... more... - mark e

mark e -- actually, I've seen the film (I'm a fanatical movie buff). That's not my read on Weiss at all -- we will have to disagree on this point. Try to see the big picture here -- scan the last few dozen articles on Mondoweiss -- it's as hard edge as ever, pulling no punches. The Blankfort episode is a big blip on the screen, but it's still only a blip. Weiss deserves more respect than you are giving him, in my opinion. - Sean McBride

Regarding Adam Horowitz's articles: they all strike me as being solid and uncompromising. - Sean McBride

Sean - my portrayal of Weiss probably isn't correct. I think what Blankfort said about him is more likely closer to the truth. As for Horowitz, he lives down to his last name. One can not support the war crimes of zionists and the slander of zionists and support the Palestinians at the same time. The war crimes of zionists and slander of zionists leads to more hardship for Palestinians.... more... - mark e

Update--Adam did respond to my post in the affirmative so he gets points for that. - American

Sean, I respect Phil also, but I also think he is way, way too into this anti semitism worry and censoring. If anti semitism rears it head in any big way it isn't gonna be because of anything anyone said about Jewish history or the Jews in general, it will be because of something the "Jewish State" does that people take out on the Jews.. He's likely to cause more resentment of Jews by... more... - American

I didn't see anyone posting that they are leaving the site. Except taxi, yesterday. I also see that the banning of the inconsequential among the commenters was not addressed by Phil - potsherd

All I can think to say is WOW: http://mondoweiss.net/2012... - mark e

"I also see that the banning of the inconsequential among the commenters was not addressed by Phil" The backlash of banning the inconsequentials is not seen as a threat that needed to be addressed for the sake of the site's reputation. Banning Blankfort gave Mondoweiss a huge credibility hit and this "explanation" by Weiss is known as "damage control". - mark e

Moving comment by Miriam there. Also, pro-Atzmon, and it was published. - Sean McBride

American -- your comment was published. Would you agree that European Jews suffered something rather more than "discrimination" last century? - Sean McBride

mark e -- Adam Horowitz has been highly critical of the Israeli government, the Israel lobby and Zionism. What more do you want from him? To commit harakiri? :) Mondoweiss has a more open-minded moderation policy than any other quality forum I can think of. - Sean McBride

Sean McBride - "Adam Horowitz has been highly critical of the Israeli government" So has Donald. Horowitz can be as critical as he wants, but if he promotes their disgusting wars and Libya and Syria are Israel's wars, as he has been, then he's a hypocrite. He is helping Israel kill people by legitimizing Israel's propaganda. And he's hurting the Palestinians far more than helping them,... more... - mark e

mark e -- well -- I have opposed the Libya War and the proposed Syria War on the grounds that they are extensions of the Clean Break grand strategic plan designed by Richard Perle and his cronies. I was a big fan of Christopher Hitchens until he had a nervous breakdown after 9/11 and morphed into a hysterical neocon and Islamophobe. I haven't read all of Adam's articles -- the ones I have read were pretty much on the same page with my beliefs and analysis. - Sean McBride

A comment of mine to Phil at MW: Phil, 1. I think it's positive and commendable that you are conducting your explorations into Zionism from within your own (often illustrious) cultural tradition -- you openly embrace it and challenge it from within (you "plant [your] flag in Jewish turf"). In some ways in the current political climate that takes more character and backbone than going... more... - Sean McBride

Sean McBride - up until Hitchens adorned kneepads and worshipped at the alter of neoconnery, I thought his heart was in the right place. But also found him to be self-obsessed, excessively wordy and rather vacant. Not to mention boring to listen to or read. ;) With regard to Horowitz, Libya and Syria, I've seen nothing from Mondoweiss about these conflicts that wasn't in favor of them.... more... - mark e

I'll add that right now, Syria is where Israel is fighting a "hot" war, Iran is a covert war and still a potential "hot" war. Common sense would dictate that Syria should be given at least equal exposure as Iran for that reason alone, especially to counter the zionist propaganda. But where is Mondoweiss? They hardly mention Syria or the war crimes the zionists are committing there. They... more... - mark e

Guilt by association. Very clever. - mark e

A comment by me on this thread on MW did not pass moderation. I missed the original discussion that resulted in the banning. I pointed out that Zionism and racialist anti-Semitism were fraternal twins, and that this role included Zionist cooperation with the Nazi regime in the Transfer Agreement, documented by Edwin Black in his book. I also cited the terrific interview with Jeff in... more... - Harry Clark

Reading this makes me understand why Phil banned these topics, though I'm sure Jeff's comments were more thoughtful than this. Of course the WZO couldn't control the boycott, whatever deal the Nazis thought they were getting. Otherwise this is "holocaust denial", omits Poland, where 3 million Jews lived in 1939. There were a few tens of thousands left in 1945. Pray tell, where did they all go? Well, this is one board I no longer follow (along with MW, though I read the posts there). - Harry Clark

Harry Clark: here is how this software platform works: you have the power personally to block any other users you don't like. You won't see their posts again and you can concentrate on the users whose posts you like. It's a self-organizing, bottom-up system. I agree that Landon seems to be drifting into peculiar territory, but the best way to handle him is through factual and reasonable rebuttal. - Sean McBride

mark e: here is a list of Adam Horowitz's articles on Mondoweiss: http://mondoweiss.net/author... I agree with most of them. Do you agree with any of them? - Sean McBride

Sean, if you are talking about the German Holocaust then yes of course it was more than discrimination. But I consider the holocaust to be a total aberration in humankind carried out by a cult, the Nazis. The ancient persecutions of Jews they talk about, if you look at ancient history, wasn't different from the persecution of other tribes and religions --slaughtering the 'other' back... more... - American

American -- this is what most strikes me: biblical and Jewish ideology at the core seems to be organized around perpetual and apocalyptic conflict between the chosen nation (Israel, Zion) and "the nations" (goyim). This is the fundamental myth and meme. Obviously cult believers in such an ideology could easily get trapped in an endless cycle self-generated and self-perpetuating conflict... more... - Sean McBride

Messianism and xenophobia of course pervade most or all human cultures -- it's all a matter of degree. - Sean McBride

Sean...,as a equestrian, horse lover, breeder for decades I know genes can determine temperaments and personality as well as physical conformation. Serious animal breeders breed for traits. The environment the animal is raised in can change their inherited temperament and the same I believe is absolutely is true for humans. The question is, can for example some mental "conditioning" of... more... - American

Looking down the road, I suspect that scientists will discover an important genetic component in all manifestations of tribalism, ethnocentrism, racism, xenophobia, etc. It will all be mapped out in detail. What most strikes me about these behaviors is their obsessive-compulsive quality -- people who demonstrate these behaviors seem out of control, sleepwalking, mere automatons. The phenenomon has a mechanistic and deterministic feel about it. - Sean McBride

They've already discovered it, Sean. Dr. Norman Doidge wrote about it in the The Brain That Changes Itself. He said that since 2000, neuroscientists have discovered that unlike what they thought before: your intelligence determines your culture and therefore your actions, it is the other way around: your behavior determines the culture and culture rewires the brain. Takes six months for... more... - MRW

Sean..about Judaism. I had a close Jewish friend that was only Jewish in the sense he still went to Temple.. One of the kindest people you would ever know. He was the second husband of a widowed friend of our family who was gentile. After his death some years ago his wife and I were reminiscing about various things we had done, taking boat trips together and etc. and how he told... more... - American

A CBC interview with Dr. Doidge: interview starts at 29:30, and ends at 45:43. October 19, 2009 - Try To See It My Way http://www.cbc.ca/thenext... Puts a whole different cast on the concept of 'ancient values' and pride in some formof bahvior that was appropriate two millennia ago. - MRW

American -- I think one has to draw a distinction between pre-Enlightenment Judaism and post-Enlightenment Judaism -- the latter is less dark, less obsessive-compulsive, less tribalistic and more rational, tolerant and open-minded than the former. And there is also the curious matter that some secular Jews (and secular left-wing Jews -- even communists) can be as ethnocentric, xenophobic and self-ghettoizing as Jewish religious Zionists. - Sean McBride

Interesting MRW.....but then it makes sense doesn't it? It's like changing your "habits"....by doing or not doing something a certain number of times until it becomes automatic or an automatic thought. - American

Yeah, takes three days to begin to change a habit, but six months to get it to start rewiring your brain. - MRW

The entire purpose of religious cults, and their repetitive rites and ceremonies, is to keep one's brain hardwired in a way that benefits the cults' creators and leaders. Religion is all about psychological programming. - Sean McBride

Sean...I can't even get into Judaism because I don't know much about it or all the different sects. But I think it's pretty obvious that the tribal 'identity' part for Jews, whether religious or secular, is the glue for many of them. - American

I have a strong interest in world religions, and have read a great deal about Judaism (and the Abrahamic tradition in general). I know the details. Ethnocentrism seems to be the glue that holds together all branches of Judaism, with varying degrees of intensity -- ultra-Orthodox, Orthodox, Conservative, Reform and Reconstructionist. It's no wonder that so many religious Jews all across the spectrum from right to left are susceptible to the lure of ethnic nationalism (Zionism in this case). - Sean McBride

Religion sort of makes my eyes glaze over. Although we belong to the Episcopal church I consider myself spiritual instead of religious. I had 16 years of Catholic education at my Jesuit Uncle's insistence , kindergarten to boarding school to first two years of university before I transfered for my last two years. It never stuck with me I gravitated more to the analytical and critical thought side. ..which the Jesuits were very good at, maybe too good. LOL - American

I do remember reading the Koran as a assigment in high school. We were given different religions, all kinds of various religious and political movements and propaganda pieces to critique and deconstruct. I remember my impression was that Islam was not half as bloody as the bible. LOL - American

Sean McBride: "here is a list of Adam Horowitz's articles on Mondoweiss: http://mondoweiss.net/author... I agree with most of them. Do you agree with any of them?" I wasn't asking for a list of every article Horowitz authored, but ones specific to the Syrian and Libyan wars, and you know that, Sean McBride. Here is what I wrote for reference: "Can you provide a link to what Horowitz wrote about these Israeli wars of aggression that you agreed with? Perhaps I missed it?" - mark e

Harry Clark - thanks for posting that interview of Blankfort. It was very interesting and he talked a lot of his background and knowledge of local politics. I had not seen him talk about those kinds of things much. I hope you're still looking in, in spite of the zionist landon troll. They do that kind of stuff all the time. - mark e

mark e -- one often has disagreements with political allies -- sometimes many disagreements. I don't attribute bad motives to MW simply because I disagree with Phil and Adam on Libya and Syria. What counts is their overall vision. - Sean McBride

American -- the Bible is bloodier than the Koran, true. Objective content analysis has easily established that fact. - Sean McBride

sorry just got to an actual PC.... i find the fact that PW addressed our concerns far too little, too late. he said exactly what we could expect, but in no way ameliorated a very poor judgement call (IMHO). i have NO problem with the new rules.... but JB was targeted for *past* crimes, that the new rules would have taken care of (i believe JB would have avoided WWII digressions if given... more... - anonymouscomments

also, when the rules came down, i thought i was banned..... i have talked about 9/11 a fair amount. if JB was banned for nuanced discussion, a *few* times, of a topic that would henceforth be verbotten.... why was i not banned for OFTEN talking about a different henceforth banned topic? why? i even dipped my toes in when those JB WWII threads came out, defending him repeatedly. the... more... - anonymouscomments

I agree, mous. I found Phil's post quite offensive. It had a very hollow ring to it. - patm

Sean "Looking down the road, I suspect that scientists will discover an important genetic component in all manifestations of tribalism, ethnocentrism, racism, xenophobia, etc. It will all be mapped out in detail. What most strikes me about these behaviors is their obsessive-compulsive quality -- people who demonstrate these behaviors seem out of control, sleepwalking, mere automatons.... more... - Danaa

Annie confirmed today that the "staff" on the site don't have their comments moderated. This undoubtedly includes the moderators. It's a two-tier system of participation, like the "superusers" at Daily Kos vs the unwashed horde. - potsherd

Potsherd - it goes both ways. I was surprised to see some of my less temperate comments make it through. In fact, I later (when temper cooled some) wished I could remove a couple of comments of mine, like you can do here on FriendFeed. I suspect that some commenters have something of a "trusted user" status and are rarely moderated. Maybe it's a privilege that can be removed. that being said, I should really watch for that temper of mine... - Danaa

I usually check the section on the right hand side under "recent comments" to see if there are any new comments. Since the comment system is so mixed up, that's usually the only way I can find where the newer comments on a thread had been posted, without going through the whole thread comment by comment, which can be really daunting in those 100+ comment threads. Often when I click on... more... - mark e

Danaa, the reason I ended up as "Potsherd2" for a while is that a glitch in the software was posting my comments without sending them to moderation. When someone found out about this, they closed the account, which is in essence banning. I couldn't open another account under another name. When I contacted Phil, he was clear that he would rather leave me banned than let my comments go... more... - potsherd

WTF? http://mondoweiss.net/2012... I never thought much of mooser, he always seemed to be a spoiled, insecure, adolescent, redneck tosser. - mark e

There is a contridiction at MW. I'll call it a "Phil conflict". Phil's purpose I think we all know is to bring Jews to the light about zionism and Israel. That means he himself thinks Jews bear some collective or general responsibility for Israel and zionism and they should stand up and speak out. BUT, then he doesn't want anyone to imply that Jews have some collective responsibility... more... - American

American, I see that Annie and Walid and Shmuel are discussing the 1933 anti-Nazi boycott. I just found an exchange between Hostage and myself on the matter some months ago here http://mondoweiss.net/2011... here, http://mondoweiss.net/2011... and here http://mondoweiss.net/2011... - Robert Werdine

Robert, I just posted the following on the same thread as an answer to Shmuel. It sums up my opinion on the Jewish world call for the boycott against Germany. >>>>Shmuel said--"In revisionist “history” however, it becomes important, because it frames Nazi anti-Jewish policies as part of a “war” between Germany and “International Jewry” – actually started by the Jews! If that isn’t... more... - American

The point here Robert is it doesn't matter if the boycott got backed down and wasn't successful --it's how this public declaration of economic war appeared to Hitler and the Germans and increased their dislike of Jews and framed them even more as 'enemies" of Germany and the German people. It was a very stupid thing to do considering Hitler had control of millions of Jews he could take... more... - American

I just read the comments by Thomson Rutherford and American about zionist support among the Christian evangelicals. Very interesting, I had assumed, like several others, it appears, that these people were much more pro-Israel than it looks like they actually are. Never being a church person, what went on among these religious types was never something I knew about much first hand. The... more... - mark e

I've been skimming the MW "Responding to commenters on recent bannings" thread. I wrote up a list of dates a couple of years ago for Yonira, who was incensed that I would, from Edwin Black's book (although I called him Edwin Brown). http://mondoweiss.net/2010... . I went into my comments to get the URL for an April 22, 1984 Channel 5 10 O'Clock... more... - MRW

I've noticed that a *factual* discussion about European/Jewish relations in the first half the 20th century causes enormous consternation and anxiety among some MW commenters -- and a complete shutdown of their rational faculties. It's a really important topic to discuss, explore and understand in the context of contemporary political, cultural and military conflict over Israel and Zionism. Feel free to discuss it in new threads here. - Sean McBride

NY Times>>WORLD JEWS PLAN TO WIDEN BOYCOTT; Leaders of 35 Nations to Take Up Anti-Nazi Campaign in Amsterdam Tomorrow. July 19, 1933. http://select.nytimes.com/gst... - MRW

MRW - "Now, tell me what's so horrible about knowing this, or stating the facts." A more widespread knowledge of the connections between the nazis and Jewish zionists, and specifically how the zionists worked with the nazis to betray Jewish people and how much the zionists helped the nazis? You have to ask? :) OK, this knowledge is pretty well known to a lot of us who have been opposed... more... - mark e

What would finding out the zionists colluded with the nazis, betrayed many, many Jews, knowing full well those people would be going to their deaths and that these zionists founded Israel, what would this knowledge do to your view of zionism and Israel? This is the absolute worst betrayal you can imagine - Jews betraying Jews to nazis. Much worse than goys doing it. Would you still feel... more... - mark e

Once the zionist myth gets busted by something like this, I mean these are deep belief that will be shattered, all of it will fall. No aspect of zionism will ever be able to pass the smell test after that. That means no liberal zionism, either, you wouldn't have any credibility. This is why both hard core zionists and their soft core liberal cousins are so opposed to anybody talking... more... - mark e

From the 1933 New York Times article: "The Jewish World Economic Conference arranged to be held here in October is being preceded by a gathering of Continental leaders of the faith in Amsterdam Thursday at which both Britain and the United States will also be represented." The phrase from the title -- "Reich Jews' Dominance Is Ended" -- to what does that refer? What dominance did they possess? - Sean McBride

Hostage returned with a vengeance: http://mondoweiss.net/2012... - mark e

Brilliant comment by Hostage in this Responding to Commenters thread on MW: http://mondoweiss.net/2012... I hope Phil and Adam read it. - MRW

mark e -- no shit, sherlock. He wiped their asses. - MRW

MRW - "I hope Phil and Adam read it." It wont make any difference. They might lie some more to try and justify what they are doing, but they wont go back. If Hostage continues, they'll probably ban him like Blankfort. - mark e

Sean -- a lock on banks, courts, hospitals, publishing, media, and shipping, according to my sister-in-law's (Jewish) mother who lived there at the time, although she was 11 when she was orphaned in WWII so what she knows is hearsay. The Jewish charities, run by the Zionists, refused to help her because she was too young to go to Palestine. They left her for dead. (The nuns found her in... more... - MRW

Good thing I copied all of Hostage's comments. Will add the latest. It's brilliant. When the turmoil here dies down, will post Blankfort's and Hostage's comments for everyone (download). Phil will see Balnkfort at Occupy AIPAC. - MRW

Hostage is getting into the deep stuff -- the roots of the problems that Mondoweiss is wrestling with. I started to get into these same issues earlier today when I drew the all-important distinction between pre-Enlightenment and post-Enlightenment Judaism and the Jewish tradition. - Sean McBride

I think Phil is sensitive to and knowledgeable about the issues Hostage raises with regard to those three branches of the Jewish tradition. - Sean McBride

You know, there is no reason why one can't collect the best comments by Jeff Blankfort, Hostage and others and store them under dedicated threads in this group. - Sean McBride

Pre-Enlightenment Judaism and the Jewish tradition: often racist, self-ghettoizing, xenophobic, intolerant, supremacist, brutal, superstitious, ignorant, anti-scientific, etc. Of course many pre-Enlightenment cultures were afflicted with these problems to one degree or another. - Sean McBride

Sean -- "racist, self-ghettoizing, xenophobic, intolerant, supremacist, brutal, superstitious, ignorant, anti-scientific, etc." Sounds like what is being created here in the US. - MRW

Yes -- the neocons are deliberately encouraging the expression of those traits among Christian Zionists. Cultural engineering and the promotion of Judeo-Christian fascism through Fox News and related media outlets and institutions. The debauching of America. - Sean McBride

It aint just the neocons doing that encouraging.... - mark e

Stunning comment by Hostage.Surprised it got thru. - American

American - please give me a link to the gilad-phil exchange - I never read it. - Taxi

Taxi...here is the interview ....http://www.gilad.co.uk/writing... is the thread at MW....http://mondoweiss.net/2011... is a link to Gilad's other comments at MW......http://mondoweiss.net/profile... - American

Cheers big ears! (hey don't touch your ears checking - it's just something the brits say!) - Taxi

Sean -- "Cultural engineering and the promotion of Judeo-Christian fascism." So is the term Judeo-Christian. A Zionist creation in the last 50 years. - MRW

Re-read the three mondoweiss links--his comments on Arendt--in Hostage's stellar comment. I like it when Hostage goes all KAPOW! with irrefutable facts. http://mondoweiss.net/2012... - MRW

kapow kabang kaboom - shshshsh shake that room! Oh Hostage you vroom! Oh Hostage you vroom! (hahahahahaha sorry folks but sometimes realism tickles my funny bone) - Taxi

I'm just listening to obama's speech to aipac 2012 and I've just lost my sense of humor (not for long don't worry folks - I'm the kinda person who'll be laughing and crying and meaning both in the middle of a nuclear fallout - uhuh I'm a great person to die alongside hahahahaha).... anyhooz yeah that disgusting obama phrase "zionism is NOT racism!" (oh the irony the irony the irony of a... more... - Taxi

They're rented callers I reckon, Landon. To me the freeform blogsphere is where I take the country's pulse and more and more yanks even in haaaaaaaaaretzzzzzz are saying bugger off to israel. Beside, c-span and the rest of them are irrelevant. Obama is secure in saying no to war with iran cuz he's taking this advise directly from our military. It's aipac versus the american military... more... - Taxi

Landon -- Henry Ford was an antisemite and Judeophobe. - Sean McBride

American -- what am I missing? Hasn't Phil Weiss been far more critical of his tribe (and the Jewish tradition) than most (any?) Anglos, Irish, Chinese, Italians, African-Americans, Arabs, French, Germans. Hispanics, Swedes, etc. have been of theirs? What exactly are you demanding of him and of Jews in general? To utterly renounce their cultural identity? Will you hold every other ethnic group in the world to this standard? (If I have misunderstood you, straighten me out.) - Sean McBride

Like me, American doesn't believe in censoring taboos. Full stop. (Straighten me out too American if I've got ya wrrrrrong!) - Taxi

American -- there are strong strands of racism in most ethnic cultures -- right? This isn't exclusively a Jewish or Zionist problem by any means. For instance, Europe and Europeans (and people of European descent) throughout their history have been afflicted with mild expressions of racism now and then. <irony> But I think one can reasonably argue that all groups (including Jews) need to address this issue aggressively and thoroughly within their respective cultures. - Sean McBride

Okay wot's going on? I just posted a comment and the site ate it up whole and without a trace! - Taxi

Sean, I don't remember the name of the arab philosopher, I'll have to search for it and pass it on when i do find it, but he's from the 'golden age' of the arabs and he wrote extensively about tribe loyalty and concluded that it is better for the tribe to go against a criminal member who committed a crime against another tribe as not doing so would lead to the tribe's slow suicide. He... more... - Taxi

Taxi -- isn't Arab culture as subject to tribal urges as European, British, Irish, French, German, Jewish, Chinese, Japanese, etc. cultures? There are some exceptions in every culture, of course. But I am curious to learn more about the Arab philosopher you mention. - Sean McBride

Sean, O.K. I'll straighten you out. First ,don't put words in my mouth with ridiculous twist like "demanding they utterly renounce their cultural identity". Second, follow along now....1) Jews have disliked Gentiles (thruout history) as much as Gentiles have disliked Jews (thruout history). If that isn't clear to you then you have missed what Hostage, I, Blankfort, Gilad and a host of... more... - American

American -- your claim is that Phil and Adam refuse to acknowledge that there are racist strains in Jewish culture as a whole (including Judaism) and are trying to restrict the discussion on this topic to Zionism only. I am still not convinced. I need to see some clear quotes and examples to be convinced. Are they critics or opponents of authors like Israel Shahak or Yehoshafat Harkabi,... more... - Sean McBride

American -- you know, I fully understand the white hot anger many people feel towards Israel now (especially with its frenetic and relentless campaign to push Americans into a war against Iran), but I think some of that rage is spilling over into anger against Jews in general -- and that worries me. Are you worried? Do we really need to be reminded of what happened in Germany in the... more... - Sean McBride

Sean -- "Does one need to be *really careful* about how one pursues disagreements with the Israeli government and the Israel lobby?" No. Not with the threat of war with Iran hanging over our collective US heads, and the utterly catastrophic consequences. Who is banging the drum for war? Who is saying it must be done for Israel's security when there is zero threat from Iran? Who is... more... - MRW

Well Sean if you can't see MW is saying that any suggestion of "Jews as a group or people" having any blame in the past or present I can't help you. And I can assure you I see the Big Picture, unhampered by pseudo intellectualism and philosophy and theory and based completely and entirely in fact. I really don't care about Phil's obsession with his Jewish identity or his ideas as... more... - American

I wish Hostage was contributing here. - MRW

So do I. I'd throw that lying, shamelessly self-serving comment he just posted about me right back in his teeth. http://mondoweiss.net/2012... - Robert Werdine

Sean, American jewery has invested mega money and time into spreading islamophobia right across America - I know xtian fundies did it too, but we're talking about usa jews here. It's already a 'worrying' state of affair. What is the difference between pushing islamophobia and pushing judophobia? Nuttin' to me. American jews pushed for islamophobia even relished spreading this dangerous... more... - Taxi

Sean, I echo most of what MRW said and have said the same over and over on MW. THIS---the Israeli Fetish and corruption in US government is something Zionist have "actively created" and other Jews have both actively "and passively" allowed to be created For Them. You ask am I concerned about "being careful" and need to be reminded what happened in the 1930's? In a word NO. I think the... more... - American

Landon, let me say this. Hostage is indeed very knowledgeable, and I’d be a liar if I said I haven’t learned much from him that I did not know. I have. But he's deceitful. Nothing illustrates this more than our latest spat over Deir Yassin, where the full extent of his dishonesty (and cowardice) was plain for all to see. Once again, Lord Hostage got mired in the muck of his mendacity,... more... - Robert Werdine

This was never a fair or honest debate. I had absolute faith in the integrity of my arguments and the validity of my assertions, which I documented and sourced in copious detail, and I had faith that they would withstand the harshest scrutiny that anyone here had to offer. Hostage, on the other hand, could not honestly debate the matter because he knew that the facts were against him.... more... - Robert Werdine

MRW, that was a great, righteous comment above that should appear on MW as well as here. That it will not is more fallout from the removal of Blankfort, and the shift in thinking that led to it. A shame. - chauncey

Hostage obviously has a long memory. He has never forgotton the times I’ve debunked his little deceptions. Here are a few examples that managed to pass moderation: Here, http://mondoweiss.net/2011... Here, http://mondoweiss.net/2011... And here, http://mondoweiss.net/2011... - Robert Werdine

Wordy werdine, please don't make us read stuff we already ran away from hahahaha! Just kidding! NOT! Hahahaha gotcha! - Taxi

Thanks, chauncey. Sean -- in addition to my above, reread Hostage's remarks here carefully. http://mondoweiss.net/2012... - MRW

MRW, American & Taxi - well said. - mark e

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video... ;) - mark e

Lol mark e, I've seen Tibetan monks fight more viciously than your gamers in the video. - Taxi

Taxi - those monks can get brutal with each other. :) For those people reading this now and scratching their heads wondering what this was all about, werdine and landon were in an epic fight about something very important (the nature of which escapes me atm) and were accusing each other of writing posts and then deleting them later to make the other look silly. Then, it seems that after having seen the video I posted up, both decided to delete those posts. :) They probably deleted them at the same time ;) - mark e

hahahah thanks mark e for the clarifications - just so you know, i'm always up for a left-of-center video distraction. - Taxi

Thought I'd post a comment here as I have been banned from commenting on MW since last September. Here's a quick recap for those who have forgotten me already (I know you haven't, Taxi, but there may be others who have). I'm a 42 year old modern orthodox Jew who was born and educated in the UK and who made aliyah in 1996. I self-identify as a Zionist. I have never voted Likud and I... more... - GuiltyFeat

Actually i have forgotten you - who are you again? apart form a self-confessed hoyteetoytee racist bugger. Whatever - welcome old friendo! o waitaminute! You that somebody from golders green, north london, right? now living on some poor suffering Palestinian family's land - rrrrriiiight you are hahahaha1 - Taxi

How are you guiltyfeat? wots the weather like in occupied Palestine? Suiting better than your country of birth? Hey bring all yer racist paranoid friends here - we'll all have a pic-nic hahahahha! - Taxi

Awww, sweetie, I knew you'd remember me. But i think I told you already that I live in Ra'anana on land which was bought by Jews almost a century ago. Sorry to disappoint. But let's not get all ad hominem again shall we. I have no problem stipulating that enormous harm was done by Israel to Palestinians during the creation of the State of Israel and thereafter. I want justice for the... more... - GuiltyFeat

If you really want justice for the palestinians then you'd get the fuck outta occuied palestine you peace fakester! (going out to dinner now a-ba-bye!) - Taxi

I remember you Guilty Feat. I doubt you got banned for calling anyone a anti semite back then since that was a pretty common slur.. Must have been something else. I have always wanted an opportunity to debate a real zionist without fear of censorship. So let me ask, when you say compensation for Palestines do you mean for those who are refugees in lieu of return or are you one who is in favor of moving all Palestines to Jordon as outlined in the Jerusalem Summit plan? - American

American, thanks for engaging. Firstly I'm pretty sure it was for calling someone who I believe is a low-grade anti-Semite, a low-grad anti-Semite. I believe Danaa, Chaos and even Annie explicitly asked Phil to ban me for upsetting the other person's feelings, but you would have to ask the moderators to be sure as no one ever communicated with me on the subject. As for compensation, I... more... - GuiltyFeat

O.K. so what you are saying is you would allow for some set number of Palestines to return ....how would you determine which ones and how many? Second question is do you think Israel should return all the illegal settlement land to Palestine and move the settlers to within 'legal' UN Israel boundaries? - American

I don't know how to determine who should return. I believe there are smarter people than I on both sides of the negotiations. I believe Israel should end the occupation of land outside its 67 borders. I couldn't care less what happens to the settlers currently living there although I imagine we would have to make room for them if they decided to return to Israel. If they chose to stay... more... - GuiltyFeat

I think GF that puts you in the Liberal zionist camp. IOW you are for Israel remaining as a Jewish majority or primilary Jewish ruled state but not in favor of Israel expanding or fully expanding into Palestine. I would agree that dismantling Israel is not practical and I have reservations about a One state solution because I don't think Israel would give Palestines full equality in... more... - American

Gf likes his/her occupation perfumed. Listen good gf, Arab jews belong in the mideast and euro jews like you need to get back to your own countries. Western colonialist will NEVER be welcomed in the mideast, whatever religion they may be. Zionism=murder and racism in the mideast - that's the reality that you've impressed on the region. You're deluded if you think you're any different to... more... - Taxi

GF, why did you move from GB to Israel? Was it a preference to live among Jews? Or religious? Or financial? Or what inspired you? - American

Thanks for that Taxi, Hasan Nasrallah couldn't have said it better. - Robert Werdine

Let him hang around Taxi---a chance to explore the zionist mind without gatekeepers. - American

American, I agree with you that a 1ss would be a recipe for eternal conflict to make today's look tame. If it were implemented the entire political and economic life in the state would come to a standstill, with everyone pursuing claims for this and that greivance and what not. I just don't hink it would work - Robert Werdine

A 2ss with all of WB and Gaza and E Jerusalem with a compensated resettlement, however imperfect, seems the only way to me. - Robert Werdine

Taxi makes me laugh. I'd love her to be in a room with the British racists who used to tell me also to "go home" so they could hear her saying the same thing now that I'm here. Who would win that shouting match? - GuiltyFeat from iPhone

Actually werdine, hassan nassrallah coulda said it a thousand times better than me - and more, he actually LIVED IT you freak! Nassrallah actually kicked your occupying asses right off lebanese land! He didn't just talk the talk, he frigging walked the walk all over your spineless backs! You're a real shithead calling yourself a 'shia'! I already made you eat the stinking shorts of THAT... more... - Taxi

Taxi is it your contention that no Palestinian has ever legally sold land to a Jew? Why? How do you feel about the Palestinians who would be willing to accept monetary compensation? - GuiltyFeat from iPhone

Shut it fg! Go to frigging sweden if you're bothered by racism in the uk! Your excuse for being a horrid little colonialist is stupid, just like your pseudonym! - Taxi

Not debating with you fg! NOTHING to debate - GIVE BACK WHAT YOU STOLE! And while you're at it, go talk to a REAL Palestinian about 'monetary compensation' - fucking swindlers! - Taxi

Sounds like someone forgot to take his meds this morning. Thanks, as ever, for that well-tempered reply. Maybe your potter friend from Bint J'Bail could come and tell us more about what he DOESN'T know about Lebanese in America? Like how my mother would havew been honor-killed by her family for marrying a German-American? Please. - Robert Werdine

Sounds like someone forgot to take their truth serum again werdine. - Taxi

Okay... back to some serious shit: I can't remember who posted this link on mw, but it's a must read: http://www.infowars.com/us-thin... - Taxi

Yes Robert and GF, you agree with problem of One state but for different reasons then I. I am on the Palestine side out of principle--human rights and law and ultimately justice. 'Perfect' Justice would be dissolving Israel as a nation and returning it all to Palestine. But there isn't likely to be any "perfect" justice. And as I said, creating 7 million refugees by dissolving Israel... more... - American

There are 7.2 million Palestinian refugees in the world today, American. Most israelis have dual passports. Do the maths. Don't reward the criminals or their children in even the smallest measure. http://al-awda.org/faq-ref... - Taxi

Taxi you're such a kook. Let's say for the sake of argument that you're right about everything. Do you have any practical suggestions for a solution that doesn't involve the forced repatriation of millions of people which I think you must know even in your angriest and rantiest moments is never going to happen. It doesn't matter if that would be the fairest solution, it's simply never going to occur. What else you got? - GuiltyFeat from iPhone

Shut yer trap fg! Which part of 'I ain't debating' do you not get. Your slimy reasons for being a colonialist disgust me. Fuck you and your one state and two state solution! You're the fucking problem! Just get out! That's the ONLY solution! Get out or get pushed out - by the outraged indignant victimized natives - and rightly so! - Taxi

Taxi, you're just an irrelevance. You have nothing to say and no practical suggestions. You're determined to be part of the problem while I want to be part of the solution. If I left Israel tomorrow, just as you suggest, how would that possibly change anything? You're just an angry child. All the righteous outrage and indignation isn't going to push out 7 million people. When you're ready to get real, come back and be civil, until then you're just noise. - GuiltyFeat

"Tree, you're just an irrelevance." (the original wording of the post, before gf edited) I don't see Tree posting here. Sounds like someone is confusing which board they posted that to. BTW, who just had an argument recently with Tree at MW (hint-hint-nudge-nudge-wink-wink)? ;) - mark e

American, you asked earlier about why I came to live in Israel and I want to try to answer. There are two aspects to my Zionism and it's something that I don't think is discussed enough. The first aspect is that I'm a religious Zionist. That means that I believe it is incumbent upon me to live my life as a Jew inside the biblical land of Israel. I would compare this to a Muslim taking... more... - GuiltyFeat

mark e, my bad. I have corrected my mistake. Thanks. If you're hinting that I have another pseudonym on MW, then I'm sorry to disappoint you. I don't. I was and remain GuiltyFeat. I am still banned over there. I have never asked for the ban to be removed and I have never opened another account. I still read MW fairly regularly. I don't know why I wrote Tree instead of Taxi. Apologies to both for any unintended insult. - GuiltyFeat

gf - "I'm a 42 year old modern orthodox Jew who was born and educated in the UK and who made aliyah in 1996." I don't think any one here is interested in learning about the specific events in the history of your excretory system's day to day functions (with the possible exception, perhaps, of werdine), irregardless of how notable you feel that specific 1996 event was for the world at large. I would advise providing your medical practitioner with that info instead. If you feel you are having a problem. - mark e

How delightful. A poop gag. I bet you're hilarious at dinner parties. Do you have anything useful to say or do you always just talk shit? - GuiltyFeat

fg this child will kick yer zionist ass all the way to the hague or back to golders green! Just look upthread at all your me me me me indulgent posts - you think anyone gives a shit what YOU want. Your entitlement complex is pathological and acute and a real real real bore! You were probably banned for vain tedium! Talking to you is like being stuck at a party with a boring boring self-centered drunk! - Taxi

O.K. GF your first or main motivation was religion, your other motivation was political. In your political motivation you are saying you were disadvantaged by being a Jew in other countries therefore you think you must live in or have a Jewish state in order to not be disadvantaged. So the quesiton is how were you disavantaged in GB which I am sure has the same religious and minority protections as the US and many other countries? - American

fg you deserve re-banning. Enjoy your bitterness bitch! - Taxi

American - sorry but I don't give an inch to disrespectful zionists. I don't know where you're going with your engagement with the freak fg, but let it roll budy, I'll let you take the floor - unless that scum addresses me again, i won't intrude on your pace of inquiry. - Taxi

American, as an observant Jew in the UK I was unable to fully participate in school activities such as sports or plays. I didn't want my children to have to choose between their religion and their social lives. As a university student I was disadvantaged by missing lectures that took place on days that I observed as religious holidays or that took place on Friday afternoons in the... more... - GuiltyFeat

GF, sounds like basically religious 'convience" re life style ,based on the fact Israel is politically and socially lawed and structured by Jewish religious rule in those areas. So the next question is .. what would you say to a Israeli Palestine Muslim who had similar complaints about Israeli Jewish customs that affect him such as holidays and etc. that you had about GB customs? - American

I would absolutely understand why an Israeli Muslim or a Muslim from any country might consider moving to an Islamic country for an easier religious life, just as I left the country of my birth and the adopted country of my parents to live here. I certainly would never advocate for that, but I totally empathize with the problems of being a religious minority. - GuiltyFeat

But GF.....You do realize that you would be telling a Muslim Palestine of Israel who was an original native of the land that to have the same conviences you have he would have to move from "his' land because the Jews wanted it and changed it for something as petty as Jewish convience. Why is it do you suppose that true ME Jews like those living in other Muslim countries like Iran don't seem to have enough of a convience problem to consider moving to Israel? - American

I'm not telling him anything. I was a native of England. I chose to move to a Jewish country for a more fulfilling religious life. I would understand why any other religious person might feel the same way, but I don't require them to feel the way I did and it's of no consequence to me if they don't. I understand the unfairness of imposing a Jewish state on non-Jews who lived here before it was a Jewish State. I don't have a solution for that. Do you? - GuiltyFeat

One other question GF, would you be just as satisfied living your religious life in a Jewish colony or country somewhere else? And do you require a nation to do that in?...for instance Quakers and others live strictly by their faith and mostly to themselves in their own communities within a lot of countries. - American

BTW GF, what do you do in Israel, what kind of work? - American

I work in marketing for a large American software company. I'm not really interested in the ghetto experience. I enjoy living in a diverse community living and working with people from different ethnicities and with different levels of religious observance. It breeds tolerance. I find that some of my Jewish friends in London and New York actually lead a more closed off life than I do... more... - GuiltyFeat from iPhone

Thousands of children in Palestine have died over the years just so fg can have her frigging sabath uninterrupted. The vanity of this is outrageous and clearly infanticidal. Sickening to the core! You should be banned not just from mw but from the whole civilized world you wretch! Coming here to troll and do your 'marketing' for an extra shekel or two are you? - Taxi

Taxi, honey, you are a person filled with hate. I am not. You would, given the opportunity, do me harm while I have never held a weapon or raised a hand in anger. You hold me personally responsible for the illegal action of my government and my army without the slightest sense of irony. You are aggressive and belligerent while I am calm and understanding. I want resolution while you... more... - GuiltyFeat from iPhone

American, I want to address something you mentioned earlier. You wrote about the true Middle East Jews. This is a bogus distinction for me. As a religious Jew I am commanded to live in the biblical land of Israel no matter how watered down you consider my bloodline. If I were a convert to Judaism, I would have the same obligation. Malcolm X writes in his biography of his surprise at... more... - GuiltyFeat from iPhone

shut the fuck up with your iphone banter you ethnic cleanser! I ain't reading your posts so don't bother trying to engage me. I know you're paid and you're here to make excuses for jewish war crimes against humanity and THAT'S why you're getting the boot in the face from me you filthy fucking real estate whore! - Taxi

How can you reconcile having a 'religious and spiritual' lifestyle with continuing acts of child-torture and infanticide in your name? Cuz Palestinian children aren't jewish it's okay by you? - Taxi

Taxi, sweetie, you are filled with hate. It boils out of you. You are asking me questions, but you don't want to hear my answers. You believe I am a non-person. I have no opinions that you are interested in. No experiences that you could ever identify with. Have a long look at the two of us and tell me who is more rabid. You said earlier that you would not engage with me further. You were lying. I am telling you now that I will no longer respond to your angry little trifles. I am not lying. - GuiltyFeat

Yes I do hate people who allow infanticide to take place just so that they can enjoy their freaking 'religious' lifestyle! You're like a fucking polite nazi around here and I don't buy it one bit! We've heard all your 'polite' excuses before - in fact you were frigging BANNED for them by a coupla other jewish guys! Where the fuck do you get your entitlement-complex from? God? You don't... more... - Taxi

O.K. GF...I'll tell you what I think from your answers. You said >>>1) "I would like the Jewish state to exist in some part of the biblical land of Israel. I don't need all of it. I don't care who has sovereignty over the parts I don't live in, but I want to live in a Jewish country where I am at no disadvantage being a practicing Jew. I don't want Rabbinic law to supersede civil law, I... more... - American

Whoa! I have no idea how you got there from what I said, but good luck to you. I think I clearly stated that it was of no consequence to me if a Jew or a Muslim chose to live as a religious minority in their country of birth. I meant their choice is no concern of mine. In discussing my "watered down bloodline" I was simply trying to counter the differentiation you made between one kind... more... - GuiltyFeat

"you contridicted yourself or lied because the Rabbincal law that makes your religious "convience" does supercede civil law and if it didn't that convience would not exist." If you consider it a rabbinic law rather than a civil one which defines the working week as Sunday through Thursday instead of Monday through Friday then I guess your logic holds, but it also exposes your narrowly... more... - GuiltyFeat

"Then it might be of consquence to you and not worth the convience of a Jewish country built on someone's else land." I have to ask you the same question I asked earlier. Is it possible that some parts of the country that is now called Israel were not stolen? Do you believe that no Jew has ever owned land legally either by inheritance or through legal purchase within the borders of the... more... - GuiltyFeat

What to do with the zionists? Put them in zoos? Caging animals is now starting to be seen as cruel, perhaps in the future, people will do away with caging animals up in zoos? That would leave a lot of empty cages. Rather than see them go to waste, why not put the freaks of humanity there on display for the entertainment of the masses? Ideal spot to dump that more incorrigible zionists.... more... - mark e

Wow, Mark, you really are a troll. Awesome. do you think there's room in your cage for zionists, nazis, corporate lawyers AND internet trolls with feeble imaginations and limited ability to engage in reasoned debate? I promise to help you out with some of the soy scraps as I imagine you haven't quite worked out a use for your opposable thumbs. Ya big dumb doofus. Let me know when you want to stop the ad hominems. Until then I'm done with you, troll. - GuiltyFeat

Just take a good look upthread fg - you're the 'narcissistic' racist troll not mark e. Nothing short of cluster bombs falling on your head would snap you outta your frigging zionist somnambulism! - Taxi

These hasbara nazis are so sensitive. It's not like the zoo cages would be like those in their torture chamber on Guantanamo, they would have heating, plenty of food and water and best of all, they would get to be the center of attention all day long and be housed among their own kind. - mark e

You know GF, I'm beginning to think Mark e and Taxi should co-edit a blog of their own, just like Phil and Adam. And I have a name for it: THE UNHINGED.COM. On this blog there will be no reasoned debate, and those engaging in civil discourse will be banned. Only hysterical ad-hominems of the Taxi variety, and the rancid, vulgar bathroom humor of the Mark e variety will clear moderation. - Robert Werdine

Oh yeah - and another thing about zionists: they are ALL so fucking BORING! Same shitheaded lies every single fucking day on and on the same boooooooooooring propaganda - no frigging sense of humor neither - everything is holocaust and misery and violins and a box of kleenex in yer pretty bored indifferent face. - Taxi

Is this where the "war of ideas" has landed? - Todd

Taxi - the zionist hasbara is so boring because there is nothing there but a faulty computer program that is getting overwhelmed by its own obsolescence. - mark e

Ah Taxi, how very good of you to share with us yet again the spirited spectacle of your table pounding tantrums, the red-faced fury of your rages, the sweet music of your shrill, shrieking screaming voice, and the eloquent vocabulary of your profanity. It does you credit. - Robert Werdine

GF....Just telling you what I see based on what you said. We all know how to say the reasonable things in a debate or conversation to keep it going and draw people in...BUT...we also can recognize when things said don't match the underlying "attitude" because the attitude does come through. You can say you 'don't need all of Palestine" and you can say you don't approve of certain things... more... - American

Werdine you aren't worthy of engaging with cuz you're a proven LIAR and have no credibility and you were banned from mw for incessant Nakba-denial to boot. A more suitable forum for werdine would be were all the holocaust deniers congregate - you have so much in common with them people. GF was banned cuz he specifically picked on Palestinian posters on mw calling them "low-grade... more... - Taxi

Is Hostage Joachim Martillo? http://eaazi.blogspot.com/2010... Hostage sounds a little -- no, a lot -- tamer than Martillo, who sets my teeth on edge, but he sure does have his facts (or ducks, h/t Bibi) in a row. - Landon

Is Netanyahu uniquely evil? Does the evil that Bibi expresses emerge from a systemic zionist matrix -- ie. zionism is evil & Bibi acts it out? Are there strains of zionism, some (ie. Jabotinsky militarism) being evil and others more benign? If so, how do both strands relate to biblical Judaism? - Landon

MRW, following some of the links on this discussion, yours from 2010 came up -- http://mondoweiss.net/2010... I think you've got some facts wrong. Zionists did not pay Nazis to allow German Jews to 'transfer' to Palestine; Nazis made a deal with zionists to ALLOW 60,000 German Jews AND THEIR WEALTH to transfer to Palestine. The... more... - Landon

also read Werdine's version of the Transfer Agreement. When someone mangles the facts as Werdine did (ie lies), you have to ask Why? What is he hiding? To braid this thought with the comment to MRW -- the deal the zionists made, according to Ed. Black, on the flyleaf, was "the Jewish-led boycott of German goods would cease in return for the transfer of German Jews to the Holy Land." No... more... - Landon

wondering if this is still active? - LovelyIsraelis

Sean McBride to Sean's feed, Mondoweiss on Friendfeed, Mideast Politics, Middle East Discussion

Targets of attack by the Israel lobby (more than 200 items)

March 1, 2012 - Comment - Like - Share

Lit, anonymouscomments, MRW and American liked this

1. Alan Hart 2. Alex Odeh 3. Alexander Cockburn 4. Alice Walker 5. American Conservative 6. Amnesty International 7. Amy Goodman 8. Andrew Sullivan 9. Andrew Young 10. Angela Merkel 11. Annie Lenox 12. Antiwar.com 13. Arab Spring 14. Arabs 15. Arianna Huffington 16. Barack Obama 17. Barbra Streisand 18. Ben White 19. Betty McCollum 20. Bill Clinton 21. Bill Moyers 22. Bobby Ray Inman 23. Brad Pitt 24. Brent Scowcroft 25. Britain and Brits 26. CBS 60 Minutes 27. Center for American Progress 28. Center for Constitutional Rights 29. Chas Freeman 30. Chris Hedges 31. Christiane Amanpour 32. Chuck Hagel 33. CIA 34. Coldplay 35. Colin Powell 36. Cornel West 37. Counterpunch 38. Cynthia McKinney 39. Cyrus Vance 40. David Cameron 41. David Petraeus 42. David Remnick 43. Democracy Now 44. Dennis Blair 45. Dennis Kucinich 46. Desmond Tutu 47. Duncan Kennedy 48. Ed Asner 49. Egypt and Egyptians 50. Ehud Olmert 51. Elvis Costello 52. Europe and Europeans 53. Facebook 54. Fareed Zakaria 55. Flynt... more... - Sean McBride

9 more comments

Any others? - Sean McBride

The range of targets is simply mind-boggling. When one analyzes the overall trend of the attacks, and their mounting ferocity, one might conclude that the Israel lobby is having a nervous breakdown. - Sean McBride

Should probalby do a list of all the people who have been physically assault by AIPAC'ers also. - American

That list might include all ops that have been committed by the Israel lobby against a variety of targets. - Sean McBride

How did a political lobby manage to acquire so many enemies? - Sean McBride

One interpretation of this data: there is a faction within the Zionist world that is mysteriously driven to provoke apocalyptic tension with "the nations" in order to maximize its feeling of mystical solidarity. This impulse may have its roots in some of the deepest and darkest memes of the Old Testament. Some of these people are probably unconscious of their cult behavior -- they are on automatic pilot, completely out of control. - Sean McBride

From where are these relentless and escalating attacks originating? 1. ADL 2. AEI 3. AIPAC 4. Alan Dershowitz 5. Caroline Glick 6. Christian Zionists 7. Commentary 8. CUFI 9. David Horowitz 10. ECI 11. Fox News 12. FPI 13. Frontpage Magazine 14. Israel National News 15. Jennifer Rubin 16. Jewish Press 17. Jewish World Review 18. JIDF 19. John Bolton 20. Likud 21. Michael Ledeen 22.... more... - Sean McBride

why pitt? - chauncey

Alison Weir? Gordon Duff? Jimmy Carter? - chauncey

whoops, I didn't hit "more," I guess you got 'em covered - chauncey

Mondoweiss on Friendfeed: anonymouscomments

Jeffrey Blankfort was banned. I find this shocking due to the nuance in his comments, and the fact that it was a retrospective ban, of an important contributor. Seems fairly indefensible without allowing him a chance to self-censor himself in light of the rule changes, should he want to do that. His email response to my inquiry-

February 7, 2012 - Comment - Like - Share

Sean McBride liked this

Actually, I do not know if he wanted the email itself pasted. But bottom line, he was banned. He also asked me to pass on his appreciation to all those who have expressed their support of him. - anonymouscomments

590 more comments

I am surprised to hear that Jeffrey Blankfort was banned from Mondoweiss, since he was one of the smartest, best-informed and most valuable contributors there. - Sean McBride

Four questions: 1. What were the specific comments that triggered the ban? 2. What were the specific complaints against those comments? 3. Were any of the comments unfactual? 4. Did any specific people lobby for banning Blankfort? Whose feathers did he ruffle? - Sean McBride

My impression was that Blankfort argued that Zionism played a role in provoking or enabling European and German anti-Semitism in the early 20th century. Many mainstream historians would agree with him. He emphatically argued *against* the anti-Semitic viewpoint that Jews were responsible for provoking crimes against themselves. I think that Blankfort should be unbanned and reinstated at Mondoweiss. - Sean McBride

What could be a bigger issue in the great debate about Zionism than the question of whether Zionists may be doing more harm than good for Jewish interests around the world? Is Zionism good for the Jews? It's a legitimate and important question. One of my key beliefs and themes is that all forms of ethnic nationalism are out of step with modern Western democratic values and practices and... more... - Sean McBride

anonymous, could you please pass my own sincere regrets to Jeffrey for this nonsensical banning business? also, since you have his e mail, could you possibly ask him whether I could communicate with him directly? I have expressed my opinions several times over in support of what Jeffrey had to say - and his right to say it, without being smeared for things he never said. But it would... more... - Danaa

It would be interesting to see the comments in question, verbatim. - Sean McBride

I hunted down his email on my own, and I do not know him personally. So anyone else can do the same, should they wish to. I linked him to MW friendfeed, and hopefully he will comment here in time if we are so lucky (though he just said I could state what happened, and to pass on his regards, so he may not be interested). Regarding Sean's questions, he stated this, which pretty much... more... - anonymouscomments

So it seems it came from the moderator crew. The specific comments are clearly the ones regarding early Zionists and their interaction with German antisemitism etc... namely the discussion where Slater called him an antisemite. You can just search his comments, but one comment that (I assume) would fall into the "offending" category is this http://mondoweiss.net/2012... - anonymouscomments

I will add that JB never made an antisemitic comment (duh), and any discussion around the WWII/pre-WWII history was nuanced, conditioned, and entirely factual. He was banned, it seems, because he went over a "line" that offended some/most of the moderators, who apparently have very thin (reactionary) skin. Even if that line of discussion was to be "banned" going forward, it seems absurd... more... - anonymouscomments

In my opinion, Blankfort is better informed and more thoughtful on this subject than Slater. I don't think Blankfort should have been banned, and I think he should be unbanned, but Mondoweiss has the right to impose whatever editorial standards on its commenters and comments that it wishes. - Sean McBride

Who knows what pressure Phil Weiss might be under. - Sean McBride

Danaa- I will send him your comment, and invite him to speak for himself on friendfeed if he desires. I don't even feel comfortable emailing him, as I grabbed his email from the web, but he was responsive to my initial inquiry. I don't even feel very comfortable relaying things, as I do not know what people want said, and things can be lost in translation. I also do not even want to... more... - anonymouscomments

A reminder: this forum in no way represents criticism of Mondoweiss, which is one of the most valuable sites on the net. It's just a mechanism for Mondoweiss commenters to discuss topics that are inappropriate on Mondoweiss. - Sean McBride

An analogy: right now many secular Israeli Jews harbor hostile feelings towards religious fundamentalist Israeli Jews (haredi) that almost have the look and feel of classical European anti-Semitism. Is it "anti-Semitic" to discuss this fact of life? Hardly. It's the truth. - Sean McBride

Anonymous, Sean, Danaa,all.....I am surprised at Bankfort's banning. But maybe they banned Slater too. Looks now that's where all this started. Slater has a extreme case of 'anti semititis', anyone who doesn't agree with him is a anti semite. He called me an anti semite in some argument over the Dems supporting Israel...for something so silly I don't even remember what it was. But I don't think Phil bans people lightly so there might be more to the whole thing then we will ever know. - American

I got a reply that JB does not want to get involved in friendfeed, and seems to want to get away from the PC to some degree. But he said I could share his email with anyone who wants it. I do not like posting emails on the internet, but should you have a desire to email him, just find one of his counterpunch articles... (he seems busy in the next few days, so perhaps give it a few days to avoid falling through the cracks). ~cheers - anonymouscomments

Thanks anonymous. Have time. Will wait (a little). - Danaa

It was okay to post it and I'll add it at the end of this intro because I am more angry now than when I was first notified of the banning by apparently Phil under pressure by his minder, Adam, since Phil was obviously uncomfortable in passing on the news of my banning in an email the day before the second post on the rules enforcement was posted. Frankly, I was unaware that the site had... more... - Jeff Blankfort

Jeff -- thanks for sharing your side of this unfortunate controversy on Mondoweiss. My observations: - Sean McBride

1. I have the highest respect for Phil Weiss's intelligence, fairness and bravery in tackling some of the most difficult subjects concerning Israel and Zionism. - Sean McBride

2. Phil certainly has the right to moderate and edit Mondoweiss however he likes. - Sean McBride

3. I also highly prize your research and writings on these subjects and wish you would be reinstated at Mondoweiss. - Sean McBride

4. I haven't seen the slightest sign of any anti-Semitism in any of your articles or comments. - Sean McBride

5. I wish the particular moderators who were upset by some of your remarks would enter into a *reasonable* discussion about these matters and specify which particular passages bothered them and, most importantly, *why*. - Sean McBride

6. Shouldn't the role of Zionism in provoking or enabling anti-Semitism be fair game for rational investigation? Isn't this a big part of Zionism's story? - Sean McBride

By the way, quite a few founders of Zionism and Israel harbored views about Jews that were often steeped in classical anti-Semitic stereotypes -- arguably they were themselves anti-Semites. Mainstream scholars and journalists like Tom Segev have covered this ground in depth -- it shouldn't be controversial in the least. The facts of the case have been well-documented. - Sean McBride

Jeffrey; I am really sorry you were picked out for censorship. I don't think you are "the problem", but the mindset that further simplifies your comments. There obviously is a reason for the Taboo, it is meant to starve out antisemites. Unfortunately I do not think that an enforced philosemitic or anti-anti-Semitic standard with it's own psychological problems is a stable solution. But what do I know. - LeaNder

That doesn't make sense. - Justme

"6. Shouldn't the role of Zionism in provoking or enabling anti-Semitism be fair game for rational investigation?" You are aware that you just paraphrased the argument against Jeffrey? It may be an interesting question but ultimately it can be reduced to the "the Jews brought about their own misfortune", by having among them a group that embraced core concepts of right-wing... more... - LeaNder

"...a subject that henceforward is going to be censored on the site." It's the "henceforward" that makes Jeffrey's banning unfair and reprehensible. - patm

"It may be an interesting question but ultimately it can be reduced to the "the Jews brought about their own misfortune", by having among them a group that embraced core concepts of right-wing antisemitism. You can't really mean that?" No, LeaNder, such a meaning is without merit. But Jeffrey has never said or implied any such thing. As noted above, the relationship of Hitler and the Zionists is a fact of history and can and should be dealt with on mondo. - patm

LeaNder: regarding the possible role of Zionism in stimulating or enabling European anti-Semitism, you wrote "ultimately it can be reduced to the "the Jews brought about their own misfortune."" I emphatically disagree with that statement -- and certainly that wasn't Blankfort's claim. Stand back and look at human history and behavior in the big picture: ethnic nationalism has *always*... more... - Sean McBride

LeaNder: turn this around: do you think that German ethnic nationalism in the 20th century -- and setting the Holocaust completely aside -- played a key role in provoking anti-German sentiment among non-Germans? Of course it did. Why do you think it is that modern Western democracies try to keep a lid on ethnic nationalist urges within their polities? - Sean McBride

"Some major historians have already done this -- it's a mainstream historical topic." Sean, LeaNder, Jeffrey, I've not read much on this topic. Can you recommend some titles? - patm

Sean, I think you exaggerate the influence Zionism had on antisemites. But concerning nationalism, Marcel Stoelzler, has made the convincing argument that it indeed mattered. But he makes it in connection with Germany as a "late nation". This late nation suddenly needed the definition of who belongs and who didn't. But while that may explain later developments it doesn't explain earlier... more... - LeaNder

"German ethnic nationalism in the 20th century -- and setting the Holocaust completely aside -- played a key role in provoking anti-German sentiment among non-Germans?" Can you differentiate between the actions and results of this nationalism and it's theoretic existence? (for lack of better words). I think people hated Germans when they learned about what happened under the Nazis. - LeaNder

Sean, why not set aside German ethnic nationalism and just consider the hefty size of the German-speaking population and their thrift, industry, prosperity as provocations. I'm really thinking of today, and the growing animus in Greece and other regions of the EU. - patm

LeaNder -- I haven't said how much influence I think Zionism exerted in stimulating European anti-Semitism -- just some. Historians like Jerry Muller, Arno Mayer and Dennis Prager have argued that Jewish involvement in communism played a more significant role in motivating anti-Semitism than Zionism. That is one line of argument by reputable historians who aren't remotely anti-Semites... more... - Sean McBride

LeaNder -- perform a content analysis of the leading Nazi ideological documents (including Hitler's "Mein Kampf") -- which topics do they mention most? Why were they angry at Jews? No one is trying to justify or excuse the anger -- just to accurately and truthfully describe their ideological agenda, which is the mission of all serious intellectual history. - Sean McBride

"Historians like Jerry Muller, Arno Mayer and Dennis Prager have argued that Jewish involvement in communism played a more significant role in motivating anti-Semitism than Zionism." This could well be the case. Was it not the communists who were first rounded up by Hitler and sent to the prison camps? - patm

LeaNder -- of course you are right: European anti-Semitism long preceded modern Zionism, and has been a major factor in Western civilization since the ancient and pre-Christian era. Arguably most conflict between Europeans and Jews for 2,000 years has been motivated by religious differences. - Sean McBride

"perform a content analysis of (Nazi ideology) ...Why were they angry at Jews?" They basically conflated the Judeo-Bolshevik threat, while at the same time using absolutely contradictory stereotypes. What should this explain? If you ask me these guys were highly irrational,and crazy, just as they were manipulatively enamored with power. Look for the genesis of their numbers to support... more... - LeaNder

patm -- it's fair to say that Nazis considered communists to be the main enemy, and they considered communism to be a Jewish movement. (See Muller, Mayer, Prager and many other historians on that topic.) Their concern about the threat of communism was understandable --- Bolsheviks at the time had murdered many millions of innocent civilians in the Soviet Union and had expressed... more... - Sean McBride

"The cognitive error of Nazi anti-Semities was in blaming all Jews for communism". Sean it's ultimately everyone's decision, but I tend not to trust the Nazis, and I think German conservative parties shouldn't have either. They could have prevented this. The right and the left fought each other on German ground already in the Weimar Republic. The Nazis killed both their left-wing... more... - LeaNder

"If you ask me these guys [Nazis] were highly irrational,and crazy, just as they were manipulatively enamored with power." This is the truth of the matter, I agree, LeaNder. They were not sane people. The Great War and its aftermath is to blame for the insanity in some Nazis. In others it would have been DNA. - patm

"it's fair to say that Nazis considered communists" Last note: if that would have been all there is, what problem would they have had with the Zionists? I think the White Russian networks interaction with the Nazis and it's distribution of the Protocols of Zion is an interesting story. And yes, it may not have had the same impact without the Zionists. But then, these White Russian networks also were behind the Russian pogroms which led to Zionism. I think you will always move in circles in this topic. - LeaNder

Thanks for the references, Lea, Sean. - patm

Dennis Prager on this subject: click on page 45 for the nub: http://books.google.com/books... - Sean McBride

You can also use Amazon.com to browse and search in Dennis Prager's book: 1. http://www.amazon.com/Jews-Re... 2. Click to Look Inside 3. search: communism - Sean McBride

Now that I think about it, I can see why this discussion would be distracting for Mondoweiss. It's too deep, too complex and not directly relevant to Mondoweiss's core mission, which is effectively challenging the Israel lobby and changing Israeli policies. - Sean McBride

Agreed, Sean. Consider Lea's statement: "But then, these White Russian networks also were behind the Russian pogroms which led to Zionism. I think you will always move in circles in this topic." Endless circles moving to no firm ground. Still, this does not justify Jeffrey's banning. My last note. - patm

Sean "It's too deep, too complex and not directly relevant to Mondoweiss's core mission, which is effectively challenging the Israel lobby and changing Israeli policies". The real problem the way I see it that there will be no way of mounting a successful challenge to The Lobby without precipitating a certain amount of anti-semitism. The latter to be understood as collateral damage. I... more... - Danaa

Danaa -- I agree with most of your thoughts there (especially concerning Blankfort's valuable posts), but this worries me: "there will be no way of mounting a successful challenge to The Lobby without precipitating a certain amount of anti-semitism. The latter to be understood as collateral damage." I see what you are driving at, but what if this process gets out of control, like a... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, not to mistake my comment on "collateral damage" with any wishful thinking on my part. It's more of a premonition. What is happening is that as The Lobby - and the too-many-to-count Jewish bodies that support it - overstep the bounds of what society will tolerate, the repercussions can be difficult to control. That's the clarion call effectively issued by people like Blankfort. He... more... - Danaa

Your comment about precipitating "great depression": what I see is that the great "powers" are working over-time to limit the repercussions so that post-Iran will just be a a "perturbation". See the notes issued by saudi ararbia about "replacing" the oil lost from Iran. See the threats against Iran retaliation. The only missing element to mounting the attack is uncertainty about the... more... - Danaa

I doubt it was anything Blankfort wrote about the zionist-nazi historical interactions that got Blankfort banned. It was his objections to the Slater arguments for justifying aggressive war. The Mondoweiss site has never met an Israeli or American sponsored color revolution they couldn't support or provide disinformation for. Look at all of their posts with regard to these covert wars.... more... - mark e

mark e: some of us (including me) were aggressively skeptical in questioning Jerome Slater's promotion of just war theory but weren't banned. What struck me in the statement on the new editorial policy at Mondoweiss was the suggestion that the argument that Zionism may have played a role in stimulating or enabling European anti-Semitism during the 20th century was tantamount to "Holocaust denial." Perhaps that was the hot button that was accidentally pushed. - Sean McBride

Give 'em time, they'll get around to the rest of you, should they feel you are as much a threat as they obviously felt Blankfort to be. Real antizionist views are being systematically shut down on sites which previously proclaimed themselves to be anti-zionist. At the same time covert wars, like what is now happening in Syria, are being promoted by these same sites. These people are not... more... - mark e

Regarding the question of JB and zionism in anti semitism increase in Germany. Even ordinary Germans couldn't miss the very public activities -worldwide statements of zionist at the time and of course it increased suspicion of and created attitudes toward Jews. Don't see how anyone could doubt that or equate it with holocaust denial. The real problem is that it is not allowed to say... more... - American

interesting commentary here. i cannot seem to get emails when people post... so i missed it till now. i do not think JB was banned for his opposition to slater's commentary/war-cheering. MANY piled on, including other contributors i think. none of us got banned. i think he was banned to censor his comments on the WW2 era, due to hypersensitivity from some mods (and i guess adam). it is... more... - anonymouscomments

so as i am fairly sure they will not be hunting jews (but i expect some significant grassroots violence and attacks on temples; i'll fight this just like i fought islamophobia as best i could), i am more preoccupied with the present, and future, of the US and the world in general. i'm worried about iran, and the US is already a stumbling empire ready to get a devalued currency down the... more... - anonymouscomments

Sean McBride & anonymouscomments - reading your responses got me curious and I went back and took another look at the Slater prowar thread. I had not noticed how much Weiss went after Blankfort over the zionism thing. He was visibly pissed off. I missed that before, the layout of the comments section of that site is abominable and often one cant tell who is responding to whom there. I... more... - mark e

I cant believe he was banned. Jeffery has a lot of impact and Mondoweiss shouldn't have thrown Jeff under the bus for his commentary. Bad move on their part... - Chu

Jeff is friends with Gilad Atzmon, and Jeff was likely the one who brought Weiss to post an article about Atzmon (http://mondoweiss.net/2011...). From that day forward, you really saw a split within the mondo crowd. One side listened to Atzmon, and they other side blocked him out calling him a Holocaust denier, etc. - Chu

I think it would be a mistake to attack Mondoweiss and Phil Weiss over this episode. Mondoweiss provides facts and analysis that challenge the Israel lobby that are difficult to come by from other sources. I do think, however that it was a mistake to ban Jeff Blankfort, and that the banning may have damaged the forward momentum of Mondoweiss. Apparently Mondoweiss is still struggling to... more... - Sean McBride

I think it's good for Mondoweiss to present multiple and opposing points of view on Israel and Zionism -- one learns from the argument and dialectic which those differences provoke. Also, no one agrees with anyone else on everything -- if Mondoweiss's take on Mideast politics isn't tuned precisely to your tastes, start a new blog and discussion forum. It's easy to do. Overall I feel... more... - Sean McBride

I get the feeling from reading Weiss over the years that he is willing to push the envelope, and successfully frames things in the positive. I think you make an important point about understanding the history that needs to be laid out to understand. "Why were they angry at Jews? No one is trying to justify or excuse the anger -- just to accurately and truthfully describe their ideological agenda, which is the mission of all serious intellectual history" - Chu

Phil Weiss over several decades has pushed the envelope hard, at considerable personal risk. He has more than paid his dues. - Sean McBride

but it's sad that Jeff is no longer able to post. He was a sort of anchor in the comments section. Banning him is a blow to 'the war of ideas'. - Chu

Understanding anti-Semitism: identify the key anti-Semtiic texts, the key themes in the texts, and the frequency with which those themes are mentioned. Basic intellectual history. Pay attention to the actual belief systems which drive anti-Semitism. Understand them. Describe them accurately. THEN rebut and deconstruct them, if that is your agenda, and render moral judgments. Now, if... more... - Sean McBride

Chu -- perhaps there should be a motto change at Mondoweiss -- from the war of ideas in the Middle East to the skirmish of ideas. :) Blankfort is an Ajax in the war of ideas -- possibly too much to handle. Perhaps Adam Horowitz would be overwhelmed by Blankfort in debates about the history of Zionism. My point of view is that one can't understand contemporary Mideast and Israeli... more... - Sean McBride

skirmish: "A minor battle in war, as one between small forces or between large forces avoiding direct conflict." - Sean McBride

Mondoweiss has problems with the watchers like david green, Homphi and a host of others. They are there to stop the discussion into the historical past. They likely sound the alarms and report to larger organizations. Homphi I recall is affliated with the AJC. - Chu

Sean did you create this friendfeed page? - Chu

Chu -- yes, I created this Friendfeed group -- it took less than 10 seconds. If anyone knows of a better platform for setting up discussion forums on the fly, please share. - Sean McBride

Chu -- I never had any problems debating pro-Israel activists on Mondoweiss like David Green, Hophmi, eee, Witty and others. During those discussions, I kept asking myself -- is this the best that AIPAC can bring to "the war of ideas on the Middle East"? Really weak. When you review those interactions, you realize that the Israeli government and the Israel lobby don't have a leg to stand on -- they are trying to get by on sheer bluster and intimidation. - Sean McBride

You wonder why Israel is never debated on the senate floor. Because the argument for the neo-colonial theocracy doesn't hold up. It doesn't pass the smell test. - Chu

Sean, what would be ideal if anyone registered here could post articles and discuss. That may be problematic though. But it would be nice to see what someone could post, or anyone who found some info-nugget that could be discussed... - Chu

often there are some good articles that mondo misses because it's not part of their discussion. When the film Defamation was released, there was no discussion of it. I thought the movie made an important impact, but all was silent. - Chu

Marc e, I don't quite agree that MW is trying to turn into a liberal zionist site (a la Slater) though it does appear they are subject to considerable pressure from that corner. Like Sean, I think Phil personally paid more than his dues, questioning jewish influence, privilege and identity. Few dare go there. But that being said, the site has had some success and apparently there is an... more... - Danaa

Chu, I think you may be on to something about the Gilad Atzmon interview being the "beginning" of a retrenchment. Gilad has always been the tip of different kind of a wedge. He got himself a crowd of British anti-zionists as enemies, probably when he went after the Bolshevik Jewish history. The questioning of the history leading up to and through the Holocaust was just Mother's milk for... more... - Danaa

Danaa, I agree with you that the comments policy is likely dictated by those who fund the site and perhaps from pressure of Zionist groups, whose aim is to stifle discussion. When mondo switched from the Nation to the newer CERSC, Phil implied there was going to be a better fit to grow, but it seems the opposite occurred. And last year, when Gilad entered the comments section all of... more... - Chu

Chu -- you CAN post items here and discuss them -- go right ahead. The mechanics of posting couldn't be more simple. - Sean McBride

Danaa, I didn't just divert the conversation after mentioning Matt Taibbi's taking the piss about 9/11 conspiracy theories, I closed my side of it down. I felt like an ass, forgetting about that new rule, which I frankly think a good one. It's another topic that never gets to firm ground. - patm

Sean, I agree that Phil wants to concentrate mainly on activism, and that's ok by me, but I tend to agree with a comment Avi-G made, something to the effect that Phil hadn't thought through what he wanted to do on the site when he set it up. But then, it's not often any of us really know what we're getting into when we start something. btw Avi-G has not been around lately. - patm

Danaa, you're right about the high drama that occurred during the Gilad thread. Phil certainly didn't think much of Gilad's inelegant English prose. But I remember distinctly Gilad admitting as much himself, saying he'd learned his English late. It's hard to be subtle and nuanced in a language not your own. - patm

Danaa - Mondoweiss already is a liberal zionist site in the sense of the depth they are willing to go. I looked over the Atzmon thread Chu linked, and then read the original material at Atzmon's site and what happened there summed things up fairly well. And explained and exposed what I thought might be at root of the Mondoweiss inconsistencies. Atzmon is a sharp thinker, and being once... more... - mark e

patm. just to put your mind at ease - you are not the one(s) I had in mind. But yes, diversion-wise it's hard to avoid sometimes. Am guilty of that myself, on occasion, though I do make an effort (not always successful) to remain at least partly connected to the thread. Just out of respect for others, not for any other reason. And for my style of writing (yes, I know...) it's very hard... more... - Danaa

mark e - that's quite a pen-full. Lots to digest. Shame to keep it hidden among us afficionados. More later.... - Danaa

Chu, Phil wrote about the movie Defamation. http://mondoweiss.net/2009... - Justme

mark e, I think your comment makes a lot of assumptions. The way you talk about 'they' assumes Adam and Phil talk about and agree on everything. I don't know that they do. I don't even recall Adam posting about the Libyan war. Seham was for the war too which really surprised me and I don't know that was coordinated with the site. It could be they were just stupid or gullible as opposed... more... - Justme

Justme - "They" was meant to refer to the site. I used "they" because I also do not know what differences there are with Weiss and Horowitz, or who else might also be determining the site's content. As for the Libyan war, I actually didn't claim Horowitz supported it, or that Mondoweiss did. A great many so called progressives did support it. I did see some material in support of this... more... - mark e

re: taxi's post: Indeed it seems an intellectual travesty to give them the final say over what gets published. It also dulls the site down to have moderators who don’t FULLY understand the value of a dynamic and free-flowing debate, or disapprove of the authentic and original ‘spirit’ of mondoweiss that made it what it is today. Yes I’d say Mondoweiss has recently lost it’s spark and... more... - Chu

mark e: that's a significant limitation of this software -- comments are formatted as a separate paragraph. One workaround: post each paragraph as a single comment -- each comment is signed by the author and the train of thought is relatively easy to follow. (I read your comment by copying and pasting it into my text editor, where it is easier to read. You made many good points.) - Sean McBride

Why I opposed military intervention in Libya: 1. I got a nasty vibe from the rebels -- my instinct was that they would probably be as bad or worse than the regime they were trying to overthrow. 2. Obviously the op was part of the overall neoconservative campaign to habituate Americans to waging an endless succession of wars against Israel's Arab and Muslim enemies -- keep lubricating the Clash of Civilizations. Seriously: do I look stupid? :) - Sean McBride

Chu - re moderators on MW. You (and us) may be unfair there. I believe the tale of moderators gone harsh is what Jeffrey may have been told. It is more likely however that "moderators" is what gets thrown under the bus, them being the faceless, nameless power over the commentariat. In truth, I reckon it is not them that set the policy but Adam - and Phil. If you think about i - it is... more... - Danaa

Sean McBride - next time I'll do as you advise about breaking up a long post into separate posts, I wasn't thinking earlier. Thanks. - mark e

Danaa, I agree with this comment: "So lets' hold our fire a bit with regard to that and concentrate on the policy - and its effect - which is what we can see play out now." The new rules don't specifically exclude discussion of relationships between nazis and zionists in Germany prior to the holocaust. It's talk of the "Jews brought it upon themselves" variety that won't be tolerated, nor should it. - patm

Danaa, burnout, not just Blankfort's banning, may account for the decline in dynamism among some longtime posters. It has to be a grind, endlessly refuting the same old zionist crap. Lets hope the many newcomers to the comments section get up to speed quickly, or better yet are already there and can take over much of the load. - patm

On the "Lull" thread, someone stated, perhaps annie, that "Phil is gone." What does that mean? - patm

Danaa, It’s true, 'moderator' may be the two guys running the show. But they said that they had hired others in the past to take the extra weight off their shoulders. Phil has seemed to stand for pushing the limits, and why the sudden change now? All that's been discussed in the previous years is now forcing long time commentators to be falsely accused with charges of anti-semtic tones?... more... - Chu

MRW makes his stand: http://mondoweiss.net/2012... I’m not sticking around unless Blankfort is here. I can do without the pilpul. So this is my adieu. It’s been a great run. Truly. I am going to miss so, so many of you. - Chu

A note on my experience with moderation on Mondoweiss: I've never been banned there, never had a comment blocked and have had nothing but friendly communications with those who are officially associated with Mondoweiss. In other words, my experiences with Mondoweiss couldn't have been better. But this is curious: ever since Jerome Slater accused nearly every commenter on Mondoweiss of... more... - Sean McBride

Also that they allowed him to publish an article, and then consequently behave like such an incompetent in the commentary. He really lost his skin with his anti-semetic accusations. Slater, I respected and never said anything ill of him, realizing he was a old Zionist who is going to fade into history soon enough. But he did some damage to himself that was completely unnecessary. Him and the Donald... - Chu

Re: Adam Horowitz: I've been impressed by all his posts on Mondoweiss, and by his most recent posts in particular. In no way can be he accused of lacking boldness, courage or intellectual independence in discussing Mideast or Israeli politics. He's right on the hard edge. - Sean McBride

Woohooo hiya everybody! Good grief where y'all find the time to be here, there and everywherrrrrre?! This place 'feels' like mondo but without the double-agents hahahahaha! - Taxi

dumvita, john h has been pining for you. Gotta go folks - life's waiting. But I'll be baaaaaaack! Laterz! - Taxi

Jeffreygate! - Taxi

dimvita, I read many of your comments, which I thought never exceeded the line. Some type of restructuring is occurring at Mondoworld and it don't sound good. Perhaps they got some seed money, but with that money came new moderators. That's odd that they wiped your comments slate clean as well. Guess that's what happens when you defend Gilad. - Chu

Taxi, I agree with your end of the month deadline. Sounds more than reasonable. If the first group leaves the site en masse, there will little left to push debate. I thought Phil was away. He will likely address what's up, i Hope! - Chu

dumvita: re: "moderators" here: I set up the group (it took less than 10 seconds to do so) but have no interest in censoring or controlling anyone here. Post whatever is on your mind that is relevant to Mondoweiss-oriented issues. (I will delete any commercial spam, however, to spare us all.) My motive was simple: to give Mondoweiss commenters a space in which to discuss issues that might be deemed inappropriate on Mondoweiss. I am still a big Mondoweiss fan. - Sean McBride

Re: Gilad Atzmon: I find his writings to be interesting, stimulating and insightful. But would it be fair to say that he may have crossed the line from opposing Zionism to attacking the Jewish tradition in its entirety? Am I misreading him? Being unfair? I find a great deal to like, to admire and to be inspired by in the Jewish tradition -- I can understand why many Jews aren't willing... more... - Sean McBride

Thanks Sean for this nifty little place. Yes, Gilad is a natural polemicist, fiercely driven by his personal truth. - Taxi

dumvita. Sign in as a new name, if you're willing. - Chu

For instance, re: Atzmon: I am Anglo-Irish by ethnic background. I am not an ethnic nationalist (neither an Anglo or Irish ethnic nationalist). But I wouldn't be happy about entirely dumping my cultural traditions, from which I have derived much nourishment. My hackles might be raised by unqualified attacks on that tradition in its entirety. Again, am I misreading Atzmon? I understand... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, I think he's not apologizing ever for things he may have said in the past, and why should he at this point. People come to many conclusions and it's difficult to say I crossed a line, but I think he has insights that many on the left won't acknowledge. He seems to be friends with Jeff from the articles I've read on his website. I haven't read the wandering who yet. - Chu

Chu -- right -- I am not asking Atzmon to apologize for anything -- he should just be himself. And much of his analysis is dead on the mark. I am just trying to get in the shoes of progressive Jews who might see Atzmon as someone who is attacking them at the very core of their identity and being. That hurts. I am not surprised that in some cases they are lashing back. - Sean McBride

dumvita -- being blotted out from the Book of Mondoweiss with no warning or explanation -- that has to be traumatic. Sorry to hear it. - Sean McBride

dumvita -- really creative thinkers almost always get pushed to the farthest margins -- that's been the historical pattern for millennia. :) Often they are way ahead of the curve and are eventually vindicated by events. - Sean McBride

Another one banned here. I must admit, I'm most disturbed that no one seemed to miss me! - potsherd

I am reminded of the many "banned from Daily Kos" groups that sproinged up. - potsherd

POTS! I can't believe it WTF why?! Truly, your name actually did pop into my head, as did several other absentees, but I just thought you've not posted too frequently lately etc. Whoah my head's in a spinaaaaah! Speechless I am! - Taxi

Maybe Phil is bored and Adam wants to be a media man and not a revolutionary. - Taxi

Damn! MRW don't leave yet. If the most intelligent commenters start jumping ship others will follow. I think Taxi is right, let's see what plays out for awhile. Although my commenting brain is turning to mush and burned out from overload of the same pilpul MRW is fed up with. I don't know what happened or is going on if anything fundemental is, but I'd rather be banned than cede to... more... - American

I have no idea in my case. I queried but no reply from Markoweiss. Adam was always better at responding to things. - potsherd

I missed you Potsherd, but I haven't been following as much. Too much else cooking. Why were you bounced from the site? I thought you quit. - Chu

Potsherd, that sucks. I had no idea. Assumed, like others, that you were just taking a break. Now that I think about it, I do wonder about kalithea (who took few, if any, prisoners) and Avi_G (who may or may not be the same as the old Avi. I still don't think so, but annie said otherwise). - Danaa

dumvita, this banning business bodes no good ('tis an ill wind, etc....). Yes, the site is till valuable, no doubt about it, but something is happening behind the scenes. The way they do things with the likes of Phil and Adam is with carrots, not sticks. And I am sure that deals are being offered and withdrawn as we speak. If you can't get to people through their fears you do it through... more... - Danaa

Sean, do you think this thread should be bumped up or is it best kept not-so-visible? of course anyone who wants to get here can. - Danaa

Danaa - "I do wonder about kalithea" I had thought Kalithea had been bumped by Annie Robbins after she went ballistic on Kalithea here: http://mondoweiss.net/2012... But I noticed Kalithea posting after that. When you mentioned that Kalithea might... more... - mark e

Danaa -- it would be fine to bump this thread to the top, and Friendfeed usually does this when a new comment is added to a thread, but for some reason the feature doesn't seem to be working at the moment. We need to check in on the URL now and then to keep up: http://friendfeed.com/mondowe... - Sean McBride

Sean, I just wanted to ask you a question, if you don't mind. Did Witty get banned too? - Robert Werdine

Robert -- I don't know, but I guess probably -- Witty is usually not one to hide his light under a bushel. :) (He's welcome to post here, by the way.) - Sean McBride

as painful as it was to understand Witty logic, I would take him back if Jeff and Potsherd were reinstated. - Chu

Wow, Anne Robbins comment to Kalithea "i think you should do a walk back. in fact i would recommend it highly. as i mentioned previously, this is not a democracy." A bit to much mother goose for me. - Chu

Hey mondo folk, Some racist zio twerp called yoni c (never heard of him till my friend emailed me a twitter of his just now) is enjoying us having a community crisis: link to twitter.com If you scroll down his page, you’ll notice he’s obsessed with annie haahahaha! (i posted same on mondo's 'lull' thread) - Taxi

Yoni C @yonatan_c https://twitter.com/#!... "Watching the antisemitic commenters on MW self destruct is FUN!" mondoweiss.net/2012/02/a-lull - Sean McBride

So: pro-Israel militants are gloating over the current direction and condition of Mondoweiss? - Sean McBride

Yoni C's self-description on Twitter: "Zionist for a two state solution. Combating the new antisemitism. Other interests include Cyber-Warfare, Information Security, and some mayhem if warranted." - Sean McBride

How should one interpret the phrase "some mayhem if warranted"? It sounds like it might be a threat to commit cyber-vandalism. - Sean McBride

Do you know who else called Mondoweiss commenters antisemitic? Jerome Slater, the liberal Zionist and proponent of a two-state solution. - Sean McBride

once fractionalized, mondoweiss becomes much less effective..that is the goal, as is the breakup of middle eastern states through both external and internal conflict. control of the media is the power. this now must include the internet. blankfort was getting too close..good for him - flyod

Yoni C's Twitter page: https://twitter.com/#!... He seems to be fairly obsessed with Mondoweiss. He is rejoicing over Norman Finkelstein's characterization of BDS as a cult. He's very abusive and bullying -- like overexcited ethnic nationalists everywhere. It is disturbing to wonder if Jeffrey Blankfort was banned from Mondoweiss because of relentless pressure from this fanatical sector of the Israel lobby. - Sean McBride

Yoni C used to post on Mondo. Although not sure if Yoni C was the same d-bag Yonira (aka DGB). If you go back to some of Mondo’s first day’s of comments. People would say you should die phil. There were some serious mental cases attacking Phil. - Chu

The frigging joke is on all zionists: with or without mondoweiss around, the end of Apartheid israel is one mother effing guarantee - according to the CIA, they've got some 14 years left. He who laughs last laughs best! - Taxi

Taxi -- we had a discussion about the CIA report you mentioned here on Friendfeed: http://friendfeed.com/mideast... - Sean McBride

Say, this is interesting: 1. Yoni C on Twitter on Mondoweiss https://www.google.com/search... 2. Yoni C on Twitter on Phil Weiss https://www.google.com/search... - Sean McBride

Did Yoni C play a role in agitating for the new Mondoweiss rules? He complained about 9/11 "truthers" and Holocaust denial. - Sean McBride

That inconsequential yoni creepo is a paid hasbarado. The less we talk about him the better. I merely posted his shit link to let everyone know that the enemy is watching, taking note, and gloating. - Taxi

Taxi. That site of yoni's is crap. Added hophmi is part of the feed. Hophmi is Michael brenner and he has his own twitter feed. What a group of whiners, I'm glad they have a forum to commiserate with each other, given their pathetic Israel first inclinations. - Chu from iPhone

"Hophmi is Michael brenner." here's his url, Chu. http://mlbrenner.blogspot.com/ . It says Hophmi in his 'complete profile" at this url. - patm

You got the hophmis to the "right" and the donalds to the "left" and the Phils and Adams in the middle who seek to appease both. Meanwhile, support for Palestinian independence gets diverted into another debate on who is an antisemite and how best can the status quo be served. It's called full spectrum dominance. If zionists cant gain control of an opposition entity and co-opt it, they try to shut it down. - mark e

Sean...thx for starting this thread, have enjoyed it. I hope JB is reinstated...at the very least perhaps we'll get an explanation, cuz right now it doesn't compute for me. BTW, on the subject of JB and other worthwhile voices on I/P, I would like to reference Kevin Barrett's Truthjihad radio. It was here that I first learned of MW (Phil Weiss was interviewed, one hour), and there are... more... - chauncey

I've been away from my computer for a bit but not surprised to see things still steaming re MW and not just from my banning but of others who have contributed to the site. I assume Phil, though physically away, is following this thread as well as the one on MW and whether or not he made some kind of Faustian deal to keep him and the site alive, is feeling at least if not more "shitty,"... more... - Jeff Blankfort

To indicate the state of his being pulled from two directions, the subject of Phil's message banning me was "Bad News, Good News." The bad news was, of course, my being banned. The "good news" was that I would still be free to post articles on The Lobby a subject on which my contributions were appreciated and that we could possibly post articles together with both our by-lines. It was not an offer I could accept under the circumstances. - Jeff Blankfort

I genuinely feel sorry for Phil. He was the first and only Jew I have ever known who both closely identified with the Jewish community as a whole and who at the same time openly criticized the power and influence of the pro-Israel Lobby. The others, such as myself, who take that position and, believe me, we are a minority within what passes for the Left, have nothing to do with the... more... - Jeff Blankfort

What specifically is it that Atzmon says that set MD aflame? What's the uproar over Zionist-Nazi collaboration? There's well established evidence of collaboration. Whether the zionist motives for it were good or bad, or the best they could for Jews in war time, or if they deliberately and unnecessarily sacrificed some Jews for the Zionist cause seems like fair game in the zionist... more... - American

I do agree, based on knowing Phil thru the site, that Jeff's banning was atypical and likely from Phil being put between rock and hard place. I just want to know exactly what or who put him there. - American

Furthermore I don't see how anyone could claim that acknowledging zionist -nazi collaberation is promoting the idea of Jews bringing the holocuast on themselves. That's a ridiculous leap. - American

Phil may be calculating correctly that he will gain traction in his critique of the Israel lobby only if he enlists the support of as much of the progressive Jewish community as possible. The Gilad Atzmon camp seems (am I mistaken?) to hold that community in contempt and therefore Phil, as a matter of practical politics, has decided to draw a line between himself and the Atzmon people.... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, while I agree that Gilad has at times gone "over the top," his analysis of the Jewish Left and the role it has played in the Palestinian solidarity movement and the Left, in general, has been spot on and I say that from having come up against it, with regard to the Israel-Palestine issue for now, what is more than four decades. By their collective unwillingness to deal with the... more... - Jeff Blankfort

One thing that characterizes Chomsky as it does his anointed successor, Finkelstein, is besides their rejection of the Lobby having significant influence over US Middle East policy, their demand that the Palestinians recognize Israel's legality, their opposition to BDS directed against Israel, and their belief that they have the right to tell the Palestinians what they should or should... more... - Jeff Blankfort

At least, Jeff, Phil did respond to you. He showed you that much respect, as he ought to have done. - potsherd

The Jewish left? Most of them are ultimately no more willing to give up Israel and Jewish 'exceptionalism' than the uber zios are. And you can't get justice for Palestine without getting rid of Israel's exceptionalism. Period. - American

Those that are threatened by dialogue, which does not fit into the progressive narrative, should reevaluate the progress that is occurring, or lack thereof . I cant really see the ground swell of change with the current critique inside the US against Israel. Cast Lead came and went. Various opposition groups need to come together against the juggernaut if there is going to be progress... more... - Chu

At this current rate, there is going to be a few desolate bantustans for the Palestinians in the coming decades. Anyhow, I hope this site can serve as a alternate discussion forum for the dialogue that can't be expressed on other sites. - Chu

Dumvita, I too came out for Gilad, several times over, perhaps from a somewhat different angle, than you, but unequivocally so. I realize that, for whatever reason, some people are accorded special privileges, which, by itself should make us wonder. I never had a comment modified, or lost (though some, I admit, should well have been edited, and certainly some deserved to be lost for... more... - Danaa

HEY Dumvita!....I wondered what happened to you...thought maybe you were just busy or taking a break. Can't believe you were banned! Thanks to sean for setting up this site so we can find all our 'disappeared' friends. I don't understand this banning and am shocked it was going on evidently BEFORE we even knew about it! You, potsherd..who else is missing? This isn't right...I have... more... - American

Just tuning in again and, yes, thanks to Sean for setting this up. So far the commentary as been more free wheeling than it was at MW and the absence of the Ziotrolls whose job, paid or voluntary, was to divert us from whatever was the subject at hand is welcomed. What also rankles, personally, is that "anti-Zionists" Max Ajl and David Green, tribalists to the core, who are in denial re... more... - Jeff Blankfort

Hiya Jeff. Remember that long and detailed discussion you and I had a coupla months ago on MW about whether israel will strike Iran in 2012? Remember I doubted they would and you were truly concerned that israel would start a big bad war and drag us Americans into it? Well, I just wanna say that, so far.... I'm right! And I'm staying RIGHT! hahahahha! Ooooooh beware beware beware the politics of fear! But seriously, it's so cool to see your posts here. Thanks forever for being YOU! - Taxi

hi danaa, wrt "I had thought Kalithea had been bumped by Annie Robbins" i thought i would point out i do not have the power bump people, if i did david green and slater would be so banned. here's the conversation. http://mondoweiss.net/2012... with... more... - annie

fight? my battle is with apartheid. i choose my battles wisely and it isn't with anyone here. your flippancy is even appreciated, much in fact. - annie

Chu -- I found Annie's post here to be very interesting (like most of her posts on Mondoweiss), and I hope she continues to share her thoughts. Re: Ron Paul: I have serious reservations and disagreements about aspects of his thinking, but I think his views on foreign policy and civil liberties are so important at this stage of American history that I am willing to set those... more... - Sean McBride

Annie -- I love your passion and courage! Keep fighting the good fight. - Sean McBride

annie - I did not make that comment - mark e did. I only "wondered if Kalithea has been banned" because I did not see her (assume it's a her) around for a while and knew the tenor of her comments, and strong support for Ron Paul, might have raised some eye brows (at times it raised mine, but only a tiny bit). Since then I've seen her commenting so that wonder is no more. Never saw the... more... - Danaa

thanks sean, mucho appreciated. thanks for starting this thread. danaa, i adore you (you probably already know that). just thought i would take the opportunity to reiterate i can't ban people and if i could it certainly would not be a poster like kalithea with so much fire in her belly. i'm shocked potsherd was banned, off my radar completely. re paul, frankly i have neither the time or... more... - annie

Re: Al Media: Google [univision iran haim saban] - Sean McBride

annie, thank you indeed. I share Sean's sentiments about the importance of your role in keeping the light shining where it should. I too was shocked at potsherd's banning - kind of out of the blue. And without explanation apparently. Personally I believe that there should be some basic etiquette applied to on line discussions, whether they be in a forum or a blog. There's a reason we... more... - Danaa

dumvita: everything you just said is true. And this is the larger framework for understanding global (and American, and Mideast) politics that Mondoweiss as a rule doesn't address -- nor is it under any obligation to do so. A few hundred billionaires, most with a neoconservative agenda, are seeking absolute dominion over the entire human race. We know who they are and how they operate.... more... - Sean McBride

Oh -- I have the highest regard for Norman Finkelstein. I've read all his books carefully and learned from them. I admire his intellectual honesty and courage. But there are deeper thinkers out there, people with a better understanding of how the world really works -- that's a fact. - Sean McBride

dumvita - In my opinion, it's not the governments trying to take control, it's those behind the governments. People like that Saban, organizations like AIPAC, etc. The government, like the media, is a tool they use to get that control. The censorship in the alternative media is just as bad as that in the mainstream media, but most of the time it's more subtle and not as obvious. This is... more... - mark e

Sean, this just in: I think you may have another refugee from the Mondoweiss Nakba: me. I’m not positive, but my comments are just not passing moderation. If this is true, I’m pretty sure it is because of a spat I’ve had with Hostage over the past week. http://mondoweiss.net/2012... . I happened... more... - Robert Werdine

Please everyone - I feel must call attention to the very deep and provocative comment by Thomas Rutherford on the "lull" thread - it takes on Lobby and zionist control and analyses potential outcomes that is temperate, yet cuts to the bone. That the comment went up is a tribute to MW, so that people can see that perhaps we haven't yet crossed the Rubicon. It ius unfortunate though that... more... - Danaa

dumvita - you'd be surprised to the extent that population control and marketing has been employed in all aspects of our lives. It's gotten to be quite a sophisticated science. But this control is fragile, and they know it. It only takes a small spark to begin unraveling the make believe world they've created in people's minds so they keep the fire brigade alert and ready to douse. This... more... - mark e

I don't like to see the kind of exchange that Werdine referenced, between him and Hostage. It exposes a strong intolerance of dissenting views, a too-great willingness to assume that dissenters are not persons of good will. There is room for honest disagreement, but this fact seems to be too easily lost. - potsherd

This entire incident gives me a deja grue, back to the days of the Zionist purges at the Daily Kos, where so many strong voices were silenced. - potsherd

Danaa - I agree with TR's conclusions about reducing the zionist influence to be able to work on the other plagues crippling the planet, but he seems to contradict this with statements like "Whether Zionists believe they need to control the whole world is irrelevant, I think, to Palestinians, Iranians, and to me as an American anti-Zionist." It is that zionist control that is making... more... - mark e

Thanks potsherd for your comments. I'm sorry they banned you. I can understand me, but you and the others? makes no sense. This isn't the first time the moderators have rescued Hostage from his own folly and dishonesty. In the last comment I attempted to post, which was censored, I said: " Indeed, it is not at all difficult to discern your method of obfuscation here: falsify a... more... - Robert Werdine

In any event Potsherd I think what was done to you and the others was a travesty. Blankfort too. I certainly strongly disagreed with Blankfort but I never called for him to be banned. I don't even think anything he said could be honestly construed as Holocaust denial. I think Phil treated him pretty shabbily, and I'm not sure why. I thought they were friends. I know I had been skating... more... - Robert Werdine

What has happened to Sin Nombre? Did he leave? - American

Robert -- I strongly disagree with nearly every sentence you write, :) but you put much effort into your posts and you document most of what you assert. Feel free to post in this group without any concern about ever being moderated, censored or banned. If people want to engage with you, that's their prerogative. - Sean McBride

One really cool thing about this forum protocol as a style of social organization: individuals can easily block or hide other individuals or threads. There is no need usually for global editorial control. We're adults. We are free to read or not read, respond to or not respond to, particular individuals, posts and discussion threads. And I say this without passing any judgment on more... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, many have indicated a preference for an "ignore" button on MW. It would have solved the Witty problem without needing to ban him, which most of us believe has happened. Same with eee, or Robert Werdine. Others. like Donald, whose delicate sensibilities were hurt by the Blankfort posts, could do the same, and live to breath the more rarefied air they prefer. I am not sure how big a... more... - Danaa

American, I think I saw a post from Sin Nombre just the other day. Can't remember where. - Danaa

Danaa -- try Google [site:mondoweiss.net sin nombre] and then narrow the results for the past month. The last post I see from him (or her) was on February 7. https://www.google.com/search... - Sean McBride

If you want to mantain contact with people you have met in discussion threads on Mondoweiss, and who haven't showed up here yet, you might want to make every effort to try reach them now and let them know about this group. Once you drop your anchor here you will be able to stay in touch with them (for as long as Mark Zuckerberg keeps Friendfeed up and running, of course). - Sean McBride

Thanks Sean, I appreciate your tolerant open mindedness, as always. It's just too rare these days. - Robert Werdine

Robert -- I define myself as a progressive libertarian politically, am close to being a free speech absolutist and believe that dialectic -- the more vigorous and arduous the better -- is the main engine driving all human progress. So I don't mind interacting with opposing views -- in fact, I relish it. Echo chambers bore me. - Sean McBride

The biggest problem I had with the MW site was the software and the obdurate refusal to improve its functionality in any meaningful way. An "ignore user" function, true threading, a Parent function, a functional search function ... - potsherd

The long delays in moderation only made the situation worse, made genuine discussion too frustrating to attempt. - potsherd

Danaa -- if you want to filter out posts from a particular user on Friendfeed, click on that user's name and then click on "Block this user" on their page. If you want to filter out a particular discussion, click on "Hide" directly under the lead post for the discussion. Simple as pie. No need for global moderation in any but really extreme cases (for instance, commercial spam). - Sean McBride

Hey, Chu, I don't think annie has anything to do with bannings. If she were in charge we probably wouldn't have any bannings, just spankings or no desert ..LOL..she's way to tolerant to eject somebody. - American

Robert Werdine..are you banned for sure? Like sean, I hardly agree with most of your pov's, but I support your right to have your say...So welcome. In all my time on the net I been against censoring or banning for anything but outright hate speech or profanity so this sort of scary. I even feel bad for witty for some crazy reason. - American

Danaa, I read Rutherford's post and agree with most of it as far as the US zionist have to be stopped, naturally. I think he may be dreaming though about ending it by convincing Jewish "Leaders" to give up zionism. The Jewish leaders who have the most influence in the US are mostly all committed zionist with no reason to give it up or convince other Jews to do so. I think the 'external... more... - American

robert, fyi imo you engaged in nakba denial. i expressed my opinions wrt 'rules' on the donald thread already so i won't repeat them. that said, the new rules wrt holocaust and nakba denial have no teeth if the site bans for one and not the other. my hunch is hostage had nothing to do with your banning other than ensnaring you in continued nakba denial. chances are (especially in light... more... - annie

American. I don't think Annie would be for banning. I sometimes have disagreement with her tone. Not a big deal. We're all in for the same cause. Speaking out against taboo and stopping the war machine from more destruction - Chu from iPhone

Israel's biggest problem is the diaspora funding their volatile war apparatus. Not that there isn't a threat, but the american zionists loading them to the teeth with weapons causes them to rely on the 'might makes right' attitude. If they lacked the arsenal at hand, we would see a chance at peace and an alternative to the Netanyahu's of Israel. - Chu from iPhone

UGH! The Donald is back. Someone on the Lull thread posted something about the unfair stoning of Donald and I posted under it saying what about Donald stoning me,me.me! ..I was the one who's comment he deliberately misrepresented on Salter's comment about the US never attacking Israel. Anyway so now the caller for civility responded to my remark by saying my comment was one of a bar... more... - American

'Father has spoken', is what I called Donald several years ago. Always trying to 'correct' people and bend them to his boring pc standard. Like who the eff is he telling adult folks how to be?! I challenge all the prissy mw posters (you know who you are!) to go spent a night in Gaza - we'll see then what kinda linguistic pc standards they adapt. - Taxi

Chu (and others). You honestly think that liberating the Palestinians is gonna happen through 'peace negotiations'? I don't. No way the zios are gonna give up their loot peacefully, with or without American aid and support. What was taken by force, can only be regained by force. I strongly believe this is the realist position, after 64 years of a brutal and ongoing occupation. - Taxi

love the freedom here... so i want to pick the brains here regarding the abandonment of the 2SS (which i am very torn on.... and my primary and perhaps only concern is the palestinians). i posted this the NF post, but no takers on my rant. http://mondoweiss.net/2012... - anonymouscomments

and taxi.... i agree israel aint giving it up unless forced to, but perhaps armed force will be another disaster. an arab war that threatens israel's "destruction" threatens the destruction of anyone they feel like nuking... namely the major cities of any invading arab power. basically the samson option/mad dog thing/take the whole world down with them. but if through a global thought... more... - anonymouscomments

and if it gets approved, i posted this to jeff halper's great piece- http://mondoweiss.net/2012... - anonymouscomments

anonymous, israel's samson option if employed will assure israel's total destruction. It is conceivable that enough missiles will be fired on the Damona and one of them will actually hit its target, for instance. The samson option has kinda gained a sell-by date by now. - Taxi

Has anyone else noticed that Haaretz is no longer printing comments? The comment function isn't disabled, but none are being posted, at least in the English edition. Fallout from Talkbackergate? - potsherd

LeaNder, may I quote this comment on the MW The Lull thread? Do you wish to post it yourself? : "Jeffrey; I am really sorry you were picked out for censorship. I don't think you are "the problem", but the mindset that further simplifies your comments. There obviously is a reason for the Taboo, it is meant to starve out antisemites. Unfortunately I do not think that an enforced philosemitic or anti-anti-Semitic standard with it's own psychological problems is a stable solution. But what do I know." - patm

Taxi, I don't believe that anyone is going to liberate the Palestinians period. Israel is slowly squeezing the life out of the Palestinians with the consent of the Western powers. We all know and see the rotten agenda every day. And, I don't see the alignment of forces that could get the settlers and IDF back to their former borders. I'm not saying it isn't possible. We don't know who... more... - Chu

Chu - I agree. Nothing will liberate the Palestinians but force, and the monopoly of force is on the wrong side. Sometimes the bad guys win. The problem is, they aren't going away after this win. - potsherd

Chu, what I would call the 'allied arab resistance' to israel, which is a hecka lotta more together and capable now than ever before, as the hizb proved in 2006, will undoubtedly be the liberators of Palestine. Dude they're already ready and willing. They're just waiting for israel to fire the first consequential bullet, so as to claim a 'righteous' war of defense and liberation. So... more... - Taxi

Potsherd, when Israel insists that they will not negotiate with Hamas, because they are terrorists is laughable. Can you imagine if Sinn Fein didn't have the militant IRA? I hope their reunification will work. http://www.neontommy.com/news... - Chu

Taxi, And who knows where the Egypt is headed. Egypt was a phony peace because of Mubarak. Also: "Turkey will not allow NATO to share intelligence with Israel" http://www.breitbart.com/article... - Chu

So, here's where the banished smokers and their secret sympathizers congregate. - Charles Keating

Keep in mind folks -- feel free to start up new discussion threads in this group with your own original posts -- you needn't restrict yourselves to this thread -- but it's been a great thread! It reminds me of the original Mondoweiss in terms of its free-wheeling energy. Express yourselves without restraint. :) - Sean McBride

Oh don't nobody worry about Egypt when it comes to the Palestinian issue. Since the fall of Mubarak, israel's had a taste or two from the new Egyptian resistance front - lol israel's building another wall in the sinai to 'keep 'em out' - but the desert ninjas are gonna let them spend masses of money on a frigging wall before they start blowing it up. Hey don't it sometimes seem that the... more... - Taxi

Taxi - realistically, no. Hezbollah is a defensive organization. It's been effective in defenisve situations, fighting on its own ground. Liberating Palestine would require fighting on Israel's ground - an old-fashioned set-piece massed-arms war. Hezbollah isn't equipped to do this, even if it wanted to, which I very much doubt. In fact, I see clear signs that Nasrallah is telling Iran they won't take another hit as a catspaw. - potsherd

Potsherd, I definitely noticed the dire straits into which Haaretz's a comment section fell. But then I noticed another funny thing - Haaretz as a whole has become strangely bland. It's like someone came and used it as a sponge to squeeze the life out of it. About 4 months ago, I started collecting snippets of headlines from Haaretz because it all smelled different somehow. Once, up to... more... - Danaa

Pots, be assured there is no 'daylight' between the hizb and the iranians when it comes to israel. The Egyptian front is the silent partner readying up - you have syria to the north east and hamas from within. Nasrallah last year said that the next confrontation with israel will see them entering israel as liberators. He announced that nobody should be surprised when hizb fighters enter... more... - Taxi

Taxi - Nasrallah says a lot of shit, mostly for internal consumption. Hamas said they were going to make Gaza a graveyard for the IDF, but the IDF accounted for more of their own casualties than Hamas. It's chest-thumping. - potsherd

Taxi,mous,Chu,Pots,all.....Nope, Israel will NEVER give up it's crimes unless forced to. Anyone observing Israel can see that. And who is going to force them? Not the US. There are three things that might have a chance, slim as they are--1)Palestine somehow getting thru UN to statehood 2) the international peacekeeping forces between Palestine and Israel to hold back some of new... more... - American

Sorry Pots, me no think Nasrallah says stuff for "chest-thumping". These guys are more sophisticated and zen than you think. Also Hamas now has an evolving stock of weapons - sure they're small by israeli standards, but they can bring drones and fighterjets down. Without being king of the sky, israel is pretty much finished on the battlefield. The idf is 3rd rate soldiering without the... more... - Taxi

Taxi, first comparing Hez with Hamas is like comparing apples and oranges. One has its act together and support of the people and the other doesn't. Hamas has done a number of inexcusable acts since it has controlled Gaza that has cost it the support of more Palestinians than it can afford, including bulldozing homes, Israeli style with the same "concern" for their inhabitants and they... more... - Jeff Blankfort

BTW, has anyone noticed the absence of articles on MW dealing with US domestic politics and the Lobby's impact on it, such as Adelson being ready to cough up another $10 million for Gingrich, etc.? Reading about what is happening in Palestine is important but it is not a substitute for providing information about what it going on in the US which we can, ideally, use to change what is happening in Palestine. - Jeff Blankfort

Jeff -- I've noticed that -- I've been waiting to see if it's a just a temporary anomaly or a long-term change in editorial viewpoint and agenda. I wouldn't describe myself as a pro-Palestinian activist, by the way. I think it is important to treat the Palestinians fairly, but my main concern is the impact of Mideast and Israeli politics on American well-being and strategic interests. I am unabashedly America-centric on these issues. - Sean McBride

Phil has never been shy before about discussing the inner workings of the Israel lobby -- in fact, I had always assumed that that was his lead issue regarding Mideast politics. - Sean McBride

jeffrey, the lull thread explains phil is taking a break and he's the one who focuses in that stuff. when phil comes back that stuff will probably come back. i like it (a lot) and think it is really important. i don't know how long his break will be. he has only written two or maybe three posts in about 10 days or something. - annie

re palestine's liberation. if israel attacks iran ignore all this, but otherwise. my guess is some serious regional stuff will cause the US to go seriously bonkers like perhaps our demand for iran sanctions will cause many countries to say screw buying oil with dollars (like india is saying now) and opec will eventually be a thing of the past. china will start to rise as the global... more... - annie

annie -- I sense the aura of authentic prophetic vision in some of those scenarios. :) - Sean McBride

Jeff, the hizb is the new role model for resistance worldwide. I never equated hamas with the hizb. For sure hamas is less disciplined etc than the hizb, but they're learning from the hizb. More importantly, hamas can bring fighterjets down now - weapons they've acquired since Gaza. You can be sure that in an all out war against isreal, all Palestinians will be on their resistance's... more... - Taxi

I dig the saudi shootout part best, annie. Was it king Fahed or king Faisal who got assassinated by his drunken, druggie nephew? Can't remember. And I don't miss him either. - Taxi

lol! dumvita. I just looked up some of the imagery of the grammys and it sure looks like a sacrilege of a christian mass. Very weird. Lots of kids watch this dreck and think it's interesting. Nicki Minaj is a real brainless one, that is for sure, so is Gaga. They're image is glorified, but there shallowness speaks for itself (I saw Gaga talk about some bogus 'peace' agenda on the Jay... more... - Chu

Jeff...I have noticed most of everything on MW lately is about Jewish activism or Jewish liberal opinion. Lots going on like Grant Smith's Justice Dept hearing on AIPAC this week --AIPC basically writting the latest Graham-Liberman Iran war bill---lots of pieces out there now by non Jewish Americans like Lang and others over at Nat Sec Journal and other places on Israel-US but it's not... more... - American

dumvita, you suck when you tell young people the music they like is crap. It's not recorded for old foggies like you. - Taxi

It doesn't really matter what music I like, I just think music is a very personal choice and young people really truly love their music and you come across like an old ass dumping on young people's music. And I find the whole fear and loathing of the occult and other superstitions a tad tenth's century. That whole topic is obsolete - seems to me that only teens and catholics get fixated on it. There is more to life than just good and evil. - Taxi

Get with it dumvita - it ain't up to you to decide what music people should be listening to and appreciating. I didn't read past the first three lines of your above post cuz the vibe was already so childish and sucky. Sorry. - Taxi

dumvita - astute observations on the demonic takeover happening with the young people's cultural scene. Up till recently, this phenomenon has been kept underground. The Grammys are a sign it's now being pushed out into the mainstream. You are not the only person to have noticed how The Dark Side has taken over the pop music world: "The Satanic Cult Behind the Music Industry - Part 1"... more... - mark e

How about shifting the cultural divide to another thread and get back on track with the estimable Grant Smith, working without the accolades and unnsufferable ego of Stormin' Norman F, continues his expose of AIPAC and wonder if MW's moderators will pass this on: - Jeff Blankfort

From Grant, a few minute's ago: Chief Judge Washington, Associate Judge Blackburne-Rigsby, Senior Judge Ferren overrule AIPAC and allow IRmep's damning 76-page brief in Rosen V. AIPAC to be filed in the DC Court of Appeals: "AIPAC is an organization that has long 'had it both ways' in functioning as an agent of the Israeli government without registering, influencing funding flows to... more... - Jeff Blankfort

You mean this? "AIPAC Bares All to Quash Lawsuit, Sex, spies, and videotape" by Grant Smith http://original.antiwar.com/smith-g... (just saw your 2nd post, question answered) - mark e

That needs its own thread. - potsherd

Potsherd, it easy to create a new headline here. Press the blue button up top to subscribe and you can add any topic to discuss. - Chu from iPhone

dumvita - "marc e, I am glad that you see it." you didn't see the semi-colon at the end of that post of mine? ;) - mark e

Shortly before I was banned, Bruce Foreman, who I believe was one of those lobbying Phil to 86 me, wrote a post after digging up a number off comments I had posted over time, including one in which I called for the "dismantling" of Israel as a Jewish state which should be a sine quo non of any solution and part of the recognition that Israel/Palestine has been one state since the 1967... more... - Jeff Blankfort

It occurred to me, as I was watching the Finkelstein interview for the third time that this sensitive soul may become so upset with criticism from our side given "all I have done for the Palestinians for 30 years" or words to that effect, that we may be watching the next Benny Morris. - Jeff Blankfort

Maybe he is burning out in some sense. When he was interviewed by Chris Hedges recently, he complimented Hedges at the outset by saying he wished he was a "big picture" guy like Hedges, instead of being stuck spending all these years studying a land the size of New Jersey (or hopefully words to that effect, my paraphrase could be way off). - chauncey

Finkelstein is a gatekeeper. And not really a very good one. I was told years ago he was brilliant, but every time I've seen an example of him talking, which is not too often, I admit, he's stuck his foot in his mouth over one thing or another and never came off as very knowledgeable, just opinionated. Most of the time I found myself disagreeing with his opinions. So I have never... more... - mark e

dumbita, you're a know-it-all and a see-it all, right? Must be lonely at the top of the tower where you live. Why don't you use your occult 'knowledge' to help the Palestinians instead of infecting this thread with your hoogley boogley. Seriously! This is NOT a thread where we have to listen to your take on pop culture or lucifer. You clearly don't respect young people's freedoms and... more... - Taxi

Jeff, AIPAC is here to stay till our country gets broke and broken. There is no force on this planet that can dislodge aipac's choke-hold on our political, cultural AND media life. Exposing it's diabolical intent is important yes, but it ain't gonna get rid of them. I don't expect my gentile countrymen and women to rebel against aipac any time soon, if ever. So sad. Sometimes I feel... more... - Taxi

AIPAC has succeeded getting its way for all these years because the self-appointed spokespersons of the anti-war and Palestine solidarity movements have allowed it to function ignored and unmolested and they have done everything they could to suppress the handful of us who have tried to raise the issue. I don't think it has been an accident or a simple coincidence. As Lenni Brenner, who... more... - Jeff Blankfort

Jeff, are you saying that more vigorous partisan activism for Palestinian rights here in America coulda saved America itself? That the known cure was refused by the American left? - Taxi

So, the great MW decided to shut down the "Lull" thread. It was perhaps getting way too spicy for the delicate tastes of the Donaldians. I find that appalling, because I thought the discussion was interesting with everyone popping in and saying their piece, and of course, the vast majority calling for the return of Jeff Blankfort. It's not like the comments detracted from some important... more... - Danaa

Hahahaha shut down the commentary cuz the 'lull' thread was too popular. Perhaps alienating the bloggers is the executive aim at this stage. Oh well Orwell! - Taxi

As people said, something is brewing behind the scenes. Sorry I did not get a chance to thank you, Taxi for your kind words of praise....(got too busy trying to administer a little spanking to The Donald. Something which I suspect he probably half craves - you know, these polite, decorum types...) - Danaa

Also, as I said above, there's a connection between a paper or a blog's popularity and the commentary it attracts. It's like a mysterious bond that forms between players, screen writers, audience and stage. Some may never comment but need to know they could if they ever wanted to. Others like the soap opera nature of it all. yes bloggers and commenters can turn drama into melodrama, or... more... - Danaa

Oh yeah I know the type - I was raised in stiff upper-lipped England hahahhaa! Hey the thread-closing business is a first for MW, no? If Phil chooses to be less hands-on then it wouldn't surprise me if Adam closed all commentary down. All things must end, I guess. I think it's foolish but I would accept it if it happened. I'm looking for an I/P site that is more Americocentric than judocentric - does anyone know of any? Does our cute little annie wanna start one? - Taxi

Jeff, I agree that the movement has been the rear guard of the Lobby. It's a big circus show that caters to the those inside. The left punditry of the msm brings it to the national level. - Chu

Dumvita, (sorry, I'll be quick for the rest) Nicki Minaj turns out has an alter ego named Roman (P)Zolanski. She claims it 'he' was born inside her, out of rage, and becomes him when she is angry. She has also said 'He is a demon inside her' (He's a lunatic and he's gay). It's difficult to believe that she came up with the name Roman Zolanski on her own. - Chu

Dumita I gotta say just STFU! You DO NOT interest me in the slightest. You're really annoying cuz you keep hijacking this thread to gratify your stupid ego. It's not fair to others posting here that you wanna talk about your 'personal' NEGATIVE opinions about youth culture - yeah YOU started the deviation. I for one DO NOT NEED YOUR EDUCATION on culture matters. Respect yourself and... more... - Taxi

" The history of the Palestine solidarity movement in this country has been up to now one of utter failure and, in my way of thinking, one of the Lobby's greatest achievements. - Jeff Blankfort" JB was banned because he went on about the strength of the Israel lobby in America. MY THOUGHT Leaving Mondoweiss to join OCCUPY AIPAC is a way for some following this ff thread to show solidarity with Jeff. As a Canadian I'm going to have to think of something else. - patm

dumvita -- I'm not sure exactly what occultism in American popular culture has to do with Mondowess-oriented issues, but if you want to discuss that topic why not start a new dedicated thread of your own? Then other people here will be free to engage on the subject or hide it from sight entirely. Let's be smart here: this software provides powerful tools for managing and segregating... more... - Sean McBride

dumvita -- how to start a new thread: 1. Visit http://friendfeed.com/mondowe... 2. See the empty block near the top of the page just above "Add: Photos - Files"? -- start typing your post into it and press enter when done. Bingo: you've started a new thread. Useful advice: make the head of your thread (the opening post) as descriptive as possible of the subject under... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, I think you may have to press the blue 'subscribe' button to open a new thread. At least I thought that's what I did. - Chu

dumbvi: STFU! (Everytime you address me smartassly, you'll get this same four-lettered abbreviation response - let's see the monkey in you press the same buzz button - go on, be predictable). - Taxi

That last comment by Jeff Blankfort is a perfect example of why I think he was one of the smartest and best informed contributors to Mondoweiss -- on the same level as Phil Weiss. This quote is especially on the mark: "Even when GHW Bush went before the public in 1991, denying Israel its request for loan guarantees and openly attacked the pro-Israel Lobby and polls showed that 85% of... more... - Sean McBride

Chu -- yes -- you need to subscribe to the group to post -- which is a simple matter -- it takes a second. - Sean McBride

dumvita -- this particular thread is mostly about the issues which were triggered by the banning of Jeff Blankfort on Mondoweiss. If you have trouble starting a new thread on occultism, let us know and we'll help you out. - Sean McBride

What is odd about Jeff's ban is that he clearly has been fighting against the lobby and all it apparatuses longer than many knew there was a lobby. It's like tossing out the wise chief because you don't want to offend the warring tribe you are opposed to. Great idea... - Chu

dumvita, I don't know much about it the cult. only what you posted yesterday I responded to. It's easy to post, so try it for the long run. Log in, press subscribe in the long blue horizontal button, and then a window opens at the top, allowing you to freely post whatever. - Chu

"Ethnic nationalists always put their ethnic interests above every other interest no matter how hard they try to present themselves to the world as enlightened universalists. - Sean McBride" Sean. Supremacists, blind particularists, make terrible neighbours, Israel in the middle east. AIPAC Israel-Firsters smear anti-zionist activists as Judeophobes. AIPAC Israel-Firsters support a... more... - patm

dumvita, STFU! Go away and take with you your stupid lucifers and curses and superstitions. Some of us have studied the Age of Enlightenment and don't buy into this half-catholic half-hollywood crap! But do stay indeed if you wanna talk about the I/P issues - without addressing me, preferably. - Taxi

Come on guys. Start a new post if you want to address each other with insults. - Chu

Taxi and dum - take it outside. - potsherd

Indeed -- if two people here want to work out their disagreements on a personal level, it's easy for them to start a thread dedicated to that enterprise. That is the best way to handle this kind of situation -- doing so should be strongly encouraged. - Sean McBride

Dumbvita STFU! Take your fixation wiith lady gagas and lord googoo wid ya! (sorry my fellow politers - but it's the way it goes sometimes with thread hijackers like dumbvita - just count how many different topics she dumped on us trying to concentrate on JB's issue - sorry again) - Taxi

patm -- Zionism is now the textbook base of everything that can go wrong with ethnic nationalism. Historians -- especially Jewish historians no doubt -- will be picking over the mess for centuries to come. And, yes, many Zionists are trying to stir up as much anti-Semitism and Judeophobia as possible -- they thrive on it, get drunk on it -- it's the fuel that keeps their project alive. - Sean McBride

Taxi and dumvita -- there are many cool things about Friendfeed as a forum platform. One useful feature: you can delete your own comments at any time in the future. You might consider mutually deleting your own recent attacks on one another in this thread. :) Just a friendly suggestion -- usually it's in one's self-interest to avoid getting bogged down in personal feuds in public... more... - Sean McBride

The tragic irony that is making itself more evident every day, is that Palestinians will eventually recover from the thuggery of zionism, but our country won't. For all the ills that the usa congress and israel have created in the world and equally on the slumbering American masses, they will end up paying the ultimate price for it - by 'they' I mean us now and our children in the... more... - Taxi

Israel is like the new desert colony that the United States has had to nurture, although the public was mostly unaware that we had this new colony. Half a century later, I think they can stand on their own. Here's a first step for them: Draft a constitution that informs the world what they represent. - Chu

IMO, to get rid of the "Lobby" and the US zionist we have to get enough of the public to go after the politicians. What leverage do we have over the zios? None. Can we take Aldeson's bribe money from him or any of the other Israel donors? No. Not unless anonymous hacks into their bank acounts and takes it. We have little leverage over the politicians except a third party or publically... more... - American

dumvita -- here you go: Occultism in contemporary American popular culture http://friendfeed.com/mondowe... - Sean McBride

Only words and deeds, American. Occupy AIPAC is a good place to start. Get on the Code Pink bandwagon and make the 2012 AIPAC conference a memorable one. - patm

American -- perhaps the first step in finding a way to counter the influence of pro-Israel billionaires and oligarchs in American politics is to document precisely and in detail what they have been up to. Raise public consciousness about the issue. - Sean McBride

Here is my probem with Code Pink and other groups I admire. They work hard to end the occupation by staging protest in and our of congress. But their rallying cry is end the occupation and peace. And do you ever see their efforts displayed to the wider public or anywhere but on the net? I haven't. The first rule of the hunt is to seperate your target from the herd and pick them off one by one. Tthe herd herds exactly to prevent that. - American

American -- bingo -- highly selective targeting. That's the game the Israel lobby has been playing for decades -- applying massive pressure on one individual at a time. It's highly effective. I'll wager that Stephen Walt or Richard Goldstone, for instance, could share some enlightening anecdotes on that subject. One wonders what pressure Phil Weiss has come under in recent months. - Sean McBride

That's the trouble with non-violent movements, no guns. :-> - patm

Hahahah good one patm! - Taxi

To add some meat to what I wrote about failure of the movement to not only take on the Lobby but even to acknowledge its existence it's worthwhile to take a look at New Jewish Agenda about which one of its members was given space to pay tribute to it on MW while whining about aunty semitism of the Left and that thanks to my being banned I was unable to blow her, Ezra is a her, and her... more... - Jeff Blankfort

I would think having protesters with signs about the politician's work for Israel at every event they attend would help. Slipping in to public Q&A events and asking them about their treason for Israel. Picket their offices and residences with "works for Israel, not the USA" type of messages. In other words, get the message publicly in their face about their treasonous behavior at every... more... - mark e

My technique may sound like dirty tricks but congress is a herd that AIPAC has corralled. Politicians support AIPAC for a reason, fear and money...for their 'Careers". So what can you use against a politician that would strike the most fear him if you don't have money to buy or deny him office? A smear. And what would be the worse smear? "Traitor" for a foreign country. Ex.- back when... more... - American

Continuing my post above. This method could also be used on AIPAC and the other Jewish lobby organizations, on the individual players and businesses supporting and running these lobby groups and on the media moguls. The phony left and progressive groups fronting for the Jewish lobby should be bypassed and allowed to atrophy (as should the mainstream media). Don't try to sway them over... more... - mark e

American - we seem to be on the same wavelength here. But one wouldn't need to smear these guys, just simply use the truth. - mark e

Let me add something else. It is a waste of time to put so much energy into attacking or convincing Jewish zionist groups. They will not change their minds or activities because why should they? They have the politicians in their pockets, why would they give up all the influence and perks they and Israel get? They wouldn't. If you want to draw the draw the big RED line for politicians... more... - American

I agree with Mark re going after the pols in public. I and a handful of like-minded activists did that to Nancy Pelosi in San Francisco but we received no support from ANY sector of the Left, including the solidarity movement which was taking its cues from the various Marxist and Trotskyist orgs that plated footsie with the local labor councils who are in bed with the Democrats. She... more... - Jeff Blankfort

American -- the indisputable and well-documented *facts* about the activities of the Israel lobby are far more damning than any smears. The challenge is in bringing those facts to the forefront of American public consciousness. - Sean McBride

By the way, are people here beginning to catch on to the virtues of Friendfeed's clever protocols? Far more slick, sleek and agile than the clunky and slow interfaces of most blogs. Discussion at the speed of thought. - Sean McBride

I know this is going to rattle some people to their very core, but the fact of the matter is that Israel along with its traitorous Jewish-Zionist double agents in the US government did 9/11. Alan Sabrosky, who has credentials out of this world and HAS WRITTEN FOR MONDOWEISS holds this view and I share it as well. Further than that, he is Jewish. The key to "slaying the dragons" as Phil... more... - IranContraScumDid911

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012... - IranContraScumDid911

I suspect that this needs its own separate thread, as well. - potsherd

Speaking of MW, not only is the "lull" thread shut down, there are no new articles posted today, 2/21. Something is wrong in WeissWorld. - potsherd

potsherd, 9/11 is the key to slaying the f*cking drago, no two ways about it, the lobby has gone all for nothing on this one and we need to stand up and grab the zionist lobby by its collective lying throat and make it shut its f*cking lying mouth. From Sabrosky again: - IranContraScumDid911

So much links Israel to 9/11 – Only a public confession is missing, e.g. Many key Bush Administration officials came from PNAC (Project for a New American Century). All were Zionists (Israeli partisans). They wrote about the need for a “catalytic event” to mobilize the American people. Eight months after coming into office, they got their catalytic event on 9/11, followed by the wars... more... - IranContraScumDid911

Guys--when I say 'smear' I don't mean lies (bad choice of word by me) I mean the truth. The truth is more than damning enough. - American

Sean, you are a good non-moderating moderator. MW should hire you full time. Your efforts here are praise-worthy. I also think that there good ways of fighting the Lobby and not so good. I can't think of anything from the world of the occult that might help us in our lonely little battle here. - Danaa

Sorry, IranContraScumDid911, but you're not going to convince anybody by laying things out that way. There is considerable circumstantial evidence that the Israelis were involved in 9/11 and I believe they were but they could not have carried it out without critical assistance from the White House in the person of Dick Cheney and without the assistance of high ranking members of the air... more... - Jeff Blankfort

Before I posted the previous comment re 9/11 I checked out the comments on the Finkelstein video on MW and whaddayaknow, on the authors or writers list, right under Phil Weiss and Adam Horowitz was Jeffrey Blankfort. Curious, no? Actually I tried to post a comment on the Lull link two days ago to see what would happen since I had made no effort to do so after I was banned. When I hit post, the screen just went back to the top of the link. - Jeff Blankfort

In the good old days of mondofun, a long long time ago, we discussed the use of (giant) billboards to disseminate facts about aipac and it's whores in congress - an anti aipac advertising campaign. A campaign of 'name and shame' was also talked about. And I remember someone suggesting making small stickers with succinct aipac truths for messages to be placed anywhere you went in public... more... - Taxi

American, I love your courage and authenticity. I love the way you love and protect your country. You're a fine model of an American. And you're on fire tonight whaaaaaaaah! - Taxi

Re: 9/11 discussion: it's more than appropriate to this group. But please organize it around 9/11 specific posts and threads for the benefit of us all, and try to keep the discussion as fact-based and unemotional as possible -- the topic is incredibly volatile. I myself am a 9/11 skeptic (I prefer that term to "truther") and find the official story to be utterly absurd in literally... more... - Sean McBride

sean mcbride, got it, over and out - IranContraScumDid911

American -- got it on "smear" and please: this is a leaderless and self-organizing aggregation of equals. :) I am hoping that Friendfeed's clever "libertarian" protocols and features will do most of the "moderating" for us if we all maintain some self-discipline and stay smart. - Sean McBride

Finkelstein's comments re BDS were welcomed, not surprisingly, by a writer for New Voices, a National Jewish Student magazine, here: http://blog.newvoices.org/2012... - Jeff Blankfort

Jeff - good grief you're on fire too - I can't believe Phil and Adam banned a walking cross-referencing encyclopedia like you! Don't you just hate it when smart people make stupid mistakes? Leaves you speechless and your head shakes with disbelief. I wanna get into some of your points Jeff but I gotta go do something else for a few hours - but I'll be baaaaack! And Hey Sean McBride, my... more... - Taxi

Sean...me not monitoring..LOL I was just being 'selfish" in my suggestion cause I find it harder to keep up with comment on 911 and such I might want to respond to as thread get longer. but I get it. - American

The "lull" thread is gone? Why? What "is" going on? One thing we haven't considered is something maybe happening with Phil beyond just Mondo. I hope he's not sick or facing some serious challange like that. - American

mark e...I think we are on the same wave length. Bascially it's a matter of tactics and the real gaol. I think the fight should be aimed slam at the politicians to do away completely with Israel favortism. We won't end this corruption by going at it half way--as in still "favor" Israel and just spank them on certain things. It has to be no Israel first at all in US policy. No favorism in aid , at the UN or on anything else. The goal is to neutralize the US gov policy on Israel. - American

I don't want to be melodramatic about this, but I am a bit worried about Phil Weiss. I wish he would personally report on his status -- I hope he is happy and well. - Sean McBride

Jeff, you were 'off the mondo writers list', but now you're back on it. That thread may have died out, as I posted something on Lull and it was in the approved stage, but then comments were closed and it never went through. Perhaps check again on another thread. - Chu

Chu, Jeff, they closed the comments on the "lull" sometime last night. I may be able to pinpoint the time since I sent two successive comments - one made it in, the other didn't. Another interesting point the commenter profiles who put comments on that thread in the past 2-3 days are not updating in any rational manner. Mine do not show up on my profile at all, and neither do Donald's... more... - Danaa

This is really beginning to worry me. Years ago I use to read Steve Clemons at TWN. Back then I was too busy to take part in much commenting but I read his site and the thread comments sevral times a week. It was 2009 I believe when he got attacked by the zio and lobby censors. It started with harbarabots in the comment section accusing the commenters of anti semitism and accusing Steve... more... - American

I wonder if Phil has been made an offer to do somthing else and he is mulling it over? I hate not being in the know about this. - American

American, as I said before, I'm virtually certain that the way they'll get to Phil is through an offer he won't be able to refuse. It's not really so hard to imagine that happening. Did you notice BTW a commenter carrying the misleading name "Boycott israel on Campus"? part of the mission to ensnare through droopy comments. I believe there are and were other commenters on MW who were not what they seemed. No proof, just a good sense of smell, but there's no good way of sharing that. - Danaa

One more thing to add before I'm out for a while - it is not so much specific commentary that the PTB finds so threatening. It's the interaction between commenters. - Danaa

"Boycott israel on Campus". supposedly Annie can vouch for him. He is from San Fran. But I know what you mean with that guy. - Chu

It certainly is an odd way to end up, following mondo from afar, castaways adrift, scrunched up in a single thread....leading we know not where. Oh hell, why not! Who knows? Maybe we're on our way to Jeff's un-banning. - patm

Phil said he'd be traveling for 2 weeks. That was on the 8th - two weeks from tomorrow. - potsherd

Danaa, there is one I think is playing a "role" instead of being up front about their real side or interest. but I'm like you, I won't say publically or out anyone. Doesn't matter anyway except a commenter like that writes in such a way it's not straighforward and therefore you can't really address what they say. - American

This comment was unfair to "Boycott israel on Campus" and I decided to delete it. - mark e

mark e, i don't know boycott israel on campus. perhaps you are confusing him with stopaipac. everyone in the bay area activist community knows him. he used to post as tomj and Dkos and is a prolific advocate of palestinian rights and was one of the very best diary writers about palestine for a long long time til he was banned. team shalom lobbied long and hard for his banning. but i... more... - annie

annie - Chu must have got "Boycott israel on Campus" mixed up with "stopaipac" then. That's who I was quoting from. See a few posts above mine. Apologies for repeating it. - mark e

IranContraScumDid911- I'll start a new thread for 9/11. Are you "IranContraScumDid911" from youtube? The main evidence is for a USG job, which means we are talking jewish and non-jewish players at the highest level, in the USG. Israel likely played a role, but that would be a supporting role. Then when it comes to who shoulders the "guilt", we have to acknowledge diverse players stood... more... - anonymouscomments

But I did want to say one thing in general. Blowing the lid off 9/11 not only helps us with the I/P issue, but in general helps with SOOOO many other things. Namely the run of the mill fascistic types in the USG will be outed, and the state of US corporate media will be questioned, and the nature of the deep state/CIA will get a deep probing. However, like Jeff B, I am a realist and think this issue will never hit the tipping point and we will speculate on specifics for the rest of our lives.... - anonymouscomments

And with that, I think we should also consider how tough and futile it is to get rid of the whole AIPAC israel-firster lock on US politics. I think that may be EQUALLY as hard as blowing open 9/11 (or HARDER), and I think each share a number of key players (and the MSM is playing us for fools on both issues). Also, let's think about what issue we can better hope to blow open in the US... more... - anonymouscomments

So I sincerely suggest people also consider the 9/11 issue as a very viable (indirect) path forward on I/P... further, even if we blunted zionist bias in the US (through a miraculous sea change), we all are still stuck with the bigger problems we have as americans.... the concentration of power/wealth, and the extreme abuse of this concentrated power. the age old "evil" abuse of... more... - anonymouscomments

I’m finally here! I’ve been trying to register since last week, and it wouldn’t take. After three trouble-tickets to Friendfeed, I gave up, and took up drinking and sleeping over the weekend. ;-) But I’ve been following along. - MRW

mark e, no need to apologize, glad we cleared that up. frankly i think the ones that come at you from the left are more unsettling. MRW! - annie

Taxi, that was me with the labels. Use this site to create the message: http://qrcode.kaywa.com/ Then make labels on your printer. - MRW

One of the problems in getting info out about 9-11 is that the major alternative news sources that reach a large public like Democracy Now! will not do any stories that question the "official conspiracy theory" since host Amy Goodman sits at the feet and takes direction from....whaddayaknow....Noam Chomsky, who is not only the keeper of the gate on 9-11, he also is the keeper of the... more... - Jeff Blankfort

One short comment about the 9/11 discussion above. Every crime has four stages, and you have to do them in order: what, how, who, why. We know the what. No one buys the fakakta official how. But to jump to who before settling the how denudes you (us) of all support. There are four or five working theories for the how, but even they don’t make sense. Controlled demolitions produce... more... - MRW

WATCH http://vimeo.com/15414341 MRW- i think with enough study you know *roughly* how, some of the various whos, and some of the big whys. the nitty gritty specifics are not possible without a revolution, or a drastic shift in the power structure and a US public forcing a real investigation. i do us *no* discredit by pointing to "elements in the USG" as needed players, as that is... more... - anonymouscomments

You have to check this out..Israel's plot to kill Senator Abourezk. I donate to CNI and got a CNI mail saying this story would be up on the site at 9 am in the morning. Council for the National Interest Foundation --- Dear Friends, We wanted you to be the first to see this explosive account by our board member, Senator James Abourezk (below). We'll be posting it publicly on the CNI... more... - American

american- i'm a realist myself, so i also think the 9/11 route may not yield any fruit (same goes for our attempt to sideline israel-firsters)... i push the "dual track method". meaning i push on AIPAC and the whole israel-firster thing, not linking it with 9/11 *ever* for the general public. i also push on 9/11 truth where i can, to friends family and the web. if "9/11 truth" ever sees... more... - anonymouscomments

also american- the "let it happen" take was an *old* theory, and something i always thought possible just looking at cheney. "let it happen" is dead, and given the mountains of evidence from so many angles, it is now a "people in the USG people DID it" (unsure how much saudi, mossad and ISI help they had). http://vimeo.com/15414341 you do not wire THREE buildings for demolition, if you... more... - anonymouscomments

Does anyone remember seeing and hearing what I saw on TV the Saturday after the attack: Bin Laden saying that the men in the planes did not know what was going to happen to them and that apparently thought it was a simple hijacking. This could have been the case if transponders had been placed ahead of time in the planes which allowed their controls to be taken over and guided into the... more... - Jeff Blankfort

american- i was doing some hand waving on the planes... the point is they HAD to be remotely guided, and it is more likely the planes were *switched* out, rather than the plane with passengers used, as it is too risky the guidance system would be found out or damaged, and there is no way to ensure the right plane gets used for the right flights, and on TIME (they would need more than... more... - anonymouscomments

I remember, clearly, a lot of confusion about Flight 93 because they thought it landed at Cincinatti or Cleveland. There were two planes and the reporters were out on the road outside the airport trying to get a glimpse. One plane was in a restricted area/hangar, and the other was on the regular tarmac, but no one could get call letters. They were using radio reports from stringers to try to figure out what was going on. Then we heard that 93 went down in PA. - MRW

also- regarding the fate of the passengers. i think they largely were snuffed out on the plane, or after landing after a plane "switch" (again, plane switch en route is my opinion, but it is not 100% by any means; it just seems like the SAFEST route for them... really not hard at another airfield, and there was a lot of shenanigans with the radar data, so they had control on that end to... more... - anonymouscomments

Thank goodness for MRW - thought we'd lost ya forevermore! Hahahaha I did love your guerrilla-style sticker campaign! Now we got here ex-mondoz, banned mondoz, now-mondoz and wannabe ex-mondoz! (Did I leave anyone else out?) But altogether, all forever attached to the 'mondo' tag. Hope Phil and Adam get it together and review. Hope we get a posting from Phil addressing the mondo crisis/Jeffreygate soon. Fingers, toes and legs crossed! - Taxi

Thanks, Taxi. ;-) Anonymous: it was even worse than that. Olson was Bush’s Solicitor-General. And...and...he represented Jonathan Pollard while he was in private practice, including the appeal. Read all about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... . He also represented Bush in Bush V. Gore before the Supreme Court (2000), and Reagan during the Iran-Contra scandal. Company boy. [Read more about Olson on 9/11 thread.] - MRW

I'm not expecting anyone will ever get to the bottom of the 9/11 thing. Anyone who does, will be killed to silence them. The lesson is the same lesson as we got from the attack on the USS Liberty or the rumors that Israeli agents were behind the assassination of JFK. Whatever acts Israel commits against the US will be covered up by the Israel First agents in the government. That Adler... more... - potsherd

It's hard to imagine that something so sinister could happen, which is why people fear understanding and alternate analysis of what happened that day. The 7 tower was 50+ stories. Now assuming that the damage to the building was done by 10am and the building was 'pulled' by 5:30pm (7+ hours) is incredible. No fk'ing way could a very advanced explosives team get set up with explosives to... more... - Chu

Keith posted this explanation to building 7, but this isn't solid proof at all. And who authorized this analysis of Manuel Garcia Jr.? There's a lot of articles to counter his explanation. Dark Fire by MANUEL GARCIA, Jr. http://www.counterpunch.org/2006... - Chu

Chu -- is Keith a defender of the 9/11 official story? - Sean McBride

Some items that tend to cluster with the application of social network analysis: 1. 9/11 2. 9/11 anthrax attacks 3. Global War on Terror 4. Gulf of Tonkin 5. Iran Contra 6. Iraq War 7. JFK assassination 8. Lavon Affair 9. MLK assassination 10. Monicagate 11. neoconservatives 12. October Surprise 13. Rabin assassination 14. RFK assassination 15. USS Liberty attack 16. Vietnam War 17. Watergate - Sean McBride

I believe Keith didn't want to discuss the theories and thought it didn't help the commentary of any blog. Oh, here's his comment: http://mondoweiss.net/2011... - Chu

MRW...glad to hear you again. - American

MRW good to see you as well. One day you'll have to link me to the missing pages of the Transfer Agreement. I bought the book, but I was interested to uncover the lost pages that you spoke of. - Chu

Chu -- well, Keith should understand that nothing could be more important in contemporary American politics than getting out all the *FACTS* about 9/11. 9/11 -- the New Pearl Harbor -- has served as the pretext for the entire disastrous neoconservative agenda of all war all the time against nearly everyone (including many Americans) on behalf of Greater Israel. If Keith doesn't get... more... - Sean McBride

Annie, I appreciate that you did not recommend me to be banned. I’d thought you would be the first. Glad to know I was wrong. As I told Shingo over on Walt’s blog, I’m honestly not sure if my comment broke the rules, since “Nakba Denial” can be whatever the moderators on MW say it is. I was under the impression that it applied to whether refugees fled or were expelled; I honestly didn’t... more... - Robert Werdine

I don’t want to spam up Sean’s thread here, so I‘ll try to sum up my views so that they are not misunderstood in a few paragraphs. The first Arab-Israeli war, whether it is called the “War of Independence” or “al-Nakba” is of course the core event of the entire I/P conflict. The effort to combat what is called “Nakba denial” is in fact an effort of propaganda. It seeks to rewrite... more... - Robert Werdine

It is exactly the knowledge that the MW narrative of 1948 does not and cannot withstand the impact of debate and scrutiny that necessitates the need for this ban on what is called Nakba denial. The narrative, in this instance, has becomes a kind of religion in a way. It is all about the dogma of the narrative, protecting it, and enforcing compliance with it by rooting out the heretics... more... - Robert Werdine

Annie, I would like to say one more thing. I bear no bitterness or grudge against Phil, Adam or anyone else at MW. I’m deeply grateful to them for allowing me to comment there and participate in the great debates on their forum for as long as they did. In the 10 months I have been writing, researching, and debating on MW, I have learned more than I ever have on I/P and ME and added... more... - Robert Werdine

Hey Werdine, what's your take on the 5 Mossad agents who were arrested whilst dancing and filiming the towers as they burned? - IranContraScumDid911

Chu - "I believe Keith didn't want to discuss the theories and thought it didn't help the commentary of any blog." Everything Keith writes is a repetition of what he's seen from Chomsky or what he thinks Chomsky would think on the subject. On any subject. He does this on every site he's posted at that I've seen, including his own blog. Chomsky should pay him for his advertising services. Keith should rename himself to "TheChomskyMirrorSite.com". :) - mark e

IranContraScumDid911 - don't feed the thing. :) - mark e

mark e, yeah you're probably right lol - IranContraScumDid911

mark e probably is right. I'm not much into the mossad-did-9/11 theories. I'll leave that to you guys. - Robert Werdine

Robert Werdine: although I strongly disagree with most of your politics, I appreciate and respect the effort you make in getting your facts straight. With regard to the Mossad angle on 9/11, Google [9/11 urban moving systems] -- there is a great deal of solid factual documentation out there on the subject with no theories or speculations required. A Mossad team celebrated the attacks on... more... - Sean McBride

Sean, could you give me some more links? I'd like to examine the matter more extensively. - Robert Werdine

Here you go, Werdine. The FBI‘s own six-part report on it, heavily redacted, mind you, but there are real jewels in it if you read the whole thing. Of course, ‘natch, I did. Someone got it under FOIA...took 10 years. It’s about 700+ pages. You can find it at Scribd.com. Here’s the title of the first part: 62392807-1138796-001-303A-NK-105536-Section-1-944861.pdf - MRW

And to chime in with Robert -- I think all of us feel a great deal of affection and respect for Mondoweiss. Sometimes political and social groups, like families, run into troublesome differences and choose to create some comfortable space between factions. Happens all the time. No big deal. There is plenty of space on the Internet for everyone to engage in unfettered self-expression. - Sean McBride

Robert -- MRW's link is a good place to start. I've analyzed some of the details elsewhere -- perhaps I will post some of that analysis in a separate thread. The mainstream media seem to have completely censored any reporting about the FOIA report on Urban Moving Systems -- the topic is that hot and volatile. The powers that be desperately want the controversy to go away and be buried forever. Guilty demeanor in spades. - Sean McBride

Robert Werdine, your tale at MW is a cautionary one. Had you not misrepresented yourself at the onset, people would have engaged with you differently. Anyone can choose any persona they want on line, but it's better if it's credible. The other mistake (that you are not the only one making) is writing lengthy screeds (also known as megillahs). Yes, I do now and then the same (though I... more... - Danaa

Danaa -- amen. As soon as I notice that a comment is a dissertation, I quickly move on -- I just don't have the time or patience to parse the entire thing. Small doses -- bitesize scholarship please. If you've got a dissertation, point me to it -- maybe I'll get around to reading it -- probably not. - Sean McBride

Werdine, this is the guy who got all the documents from the FBI. He has videos with the background to the Dancing Israelis part of it, and he is the one who uploaded the FBI docs last summer.http://mybigfatanti-zionistlif... - MRW

Thanks Sean and MRW for links, I'll look them over. - Robert Werdine

Another thing, Werdine, re the Naqba. People who grew up in Israel know parts of the truth all too well, even if the whole ugly truth was hidden from them. I had two friends whose families moved into those 'abandoned" houses. I know the strange silences that accompanied our visits. Even as children one knows the feeling of dancing on graves, and like all children, we see the ghosts with... more... - Danaa

Danaa, your assertion that I misrepresented myself is based on nothing other than your own belief. Robert Werdine is my real name, I live in Michigan City, Indiana, my mother is a Sh'ia Muslim, and her maiden name was Eidy. The Eidy's hail from Machgara in West Bekaa, and my great grandfather emigrated here at around the turn of the century. I was raised in my mother's religion, which... more... - Robert Werdine

Werdine, I will not get into a debate on who and what people are behind their handles. The problem is not whether you were or are what you say. The problem is it wasn't credible. If someone claiming to be an aborigine from Australian showed up among us, the burden of convincing use to engage with him as such is upon him, not us. If a stage persona is not credible - the problem is with... more... - Danaa

Well Danaa, I agree the burden is on me to prove otherwise. I'm not sure what a "convincing Shiite" talks like. If it means talking like Shingo or Hassan Nasrallah, then, well, no. Obviously there is an inability to reconcile my ethnicity/religion with my POV. Thats understandable, I suppose, though I know of nothing in my religion or my heritage that would cause me to embrace the views... more... - Robert Werdine

Also, Danaa wrt the Nakba. My reading and research of many years tells me this: Most refugees, notably the urban wealthier upper and middle classes in the late November 1947-late March 1948 period, fled because of the violence between both sides and the deteriorating conditions that resulted from the violence. Later, (from April 2, 1948 to May 15) many fled or were expelled at gunpoint,... more... - Robert Werdine

Robert -- are you a believing and practicing Muslim now? Can you point me to other Muslims who share your political views? - Sean McBride

Apparently he's spamming his sob story everywhere: http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts... See posts there by rm werdine. He's a serial spammer. - mark e

Thanks Mark e for the reference! - Robert Werdine

It depends on what you mean by “practicing.” If you mean praying five times a day, well no. Prayer happens when the spirit moves toward it. I do fast during Ramadan, I believe in the Qur’an, though not literally. The Hadith is more problematic. I see the Islam of our Prophet as prayer, meditation, tolerance, and moral governance, not chauvinism or fanatical fundamentalism. It is a... more... - Robert Werdine

Robert -- thanks for sharing that information about your religious beliefs and practices. And, no, you don't have to prove your identity to me -- that's your business, and I take your self-description at face value -- you strike me as being sincere. If you can find a public intellectual or pundit who shares your (to me) anomalous profile -- Muslim Zionist? Muslim Likudnik? -- please... more... - Sean McBride

i love this block feature! ;) - annie

Annie, your comments on that Ezra site on MW were superb. (She was insufferable, a Jerry Slater in the making.) Mooser and his puppy coming in a close second. BTW, tell Mooser that he has one more week to mold that puppy into the King of Dogs he’s hoping for. Whatever you teach a puppy between the ages of 12-14 weeks remains forever, the commands, the obedience training. Only period... more... - MRW

MRW, i miss you around there. i will have to go check out mooser's comments on that thread. i adore mooser, how could you not. i've been playing otherwise engaged lately. - annie

sean, i am afraid i am not savy enough to figure out how to send someone a private message. how do i do that again? - annie

Robert's problem, after all, is not whether he is or isn't a practicing Shi'a but that unlike the majority of the world's Shi'a population, he was born and raised in the US and consequently has no first hand experience of what it has been like for the Shi'a of Lebanon who have been experiencing bombings, cross border attacks, and invasions from Israel since 1964 which has resulted in a... more... - Jeff Blankfort

Regarding the ban implemented by MW for Nakba denial, I believe that was decided for no other reason than to balance the ban of those denying the Jewish holocaust, the broad definition of which by Phil and Adam and "the moderators" was and remains an insult to the intelligence. For those who have forgotten, my posts detailing the well documented Zionist collaboration with the Nazis and... more... - Jeff Blankfort

annie -- to send a direct (private) message to someone, you need to be subscribed to one another on Friendfeed. Once you are subscribed to one another, hold your cursor over the name of the user in the signature of any comment by that user -- a box will pop up which includes a "Direct message" link in the bottom right corner. Or visit the Friendfeed home page for the user and click on the "Direct message" link there near the top of the page. - Sean McBride

Jeff, thanks for the history lesson on how the Lebanses resistance Hezbollah got started. - patm

Jeff, I agree with this new statement of yours. "Regarding the ban implemented by MW for Nakba denial, I believe that was decided for no other reason than to balance the ban of those denying the Jewish holocaust, the broad definition of which by Phil and Adam and "the moderators" was and remains an insult to the intelligence." It does indeed insult the intelligence, as does the banning of your good self. - patm

patm -- also note that you and Annie can communicate with one another privately here through direct messages -- see how to do so in the comment just above. It's a very useful feature, especially for people who want to protect the privacy of their email addresses. - Sean McBride

When I saw the term "Holocaust denial" in that directive I had a WTF moment. *What* Holocaust denial? Holocaust denial exists, yes, but I hadn't seen the slightest sign of it on Mondoweiss. - Sean McBride

One can both *block* particular users and *hide* particular threads -- block and hide. Always keep them in mind as a pair of features to filter out material you would rather not see. - Sean McBride

sean, I've subscribed to annie, now she must subscribe to me, then we can communicate directly. I'll leave my email up for now, privacy is not a great concern with me. - patm

I notice that on MW, the banned discussion on commenters has re-emerged in the old Comment Policy thread. This issue isn't going to go away, even if Phil thinks he can stick his head in the sand and ignore it. Pretty soon, people will be banned for raising the subject of banning. - potsherd

potsherd, To my mind the exchange between Donald and lib319 gives fresh meaning to the term "totally useless mondoweiss comment policy". - patm

Jeff, your recounting of how Hezbollah started, and why, is illuminating. I never knew this. Thanks. (This is exactly what I meant when I commented on MW that MW was throwing out the ‘granddaddy’ (meaning the leader, not the age) of the I/P movement in the US. The entire rasion d’etre of the MW site. The intellectual short-sightedness of whomever the objecting moderators were at MW is... more... - MRW

I think the decision rests with Phil and Adam... so any attempt to pawn it off on "mods" is avoiding the issue. Phil founded the blog, so the final say is basically in his hands. Maybe it wasn't his idea/wish, but that he allowed some of the inexplicable bannings was his *choice*. I think it was a mistake, and I think it likely Phil regrets bending to pressure (from Adam and/or others).... more... - anonymouscomments

We have enormous pull, Anon. You’ll notice that few are contributing to the site. If he wants us back, he’s going to have to consider it. I’m sure there’s no serious feeling of lack at the moment, but over time the fact that a number of us are not contributing any more will be noticed. (You’ll notice Hostage is now staying away.) At that point, they are going to have to make a decision:... more... - MRW

“FEBRUARY 22, 2012 A CounterPunch Exclusive: Collusion and Betrayal on the Suez Canal What Really Happened in the “Yom Kippur” War? by ISRAEL SHAMIR Moscow Here in Moscow I recently received a dark-blue folder dated 1975. It contains one of the most well-buried secrets of Middle Eastern and of US diplomacy. The secret file, written by the Soviet Ambassador in Cairo, Vladimir M.... more... - MRW

Jeff - someone(s) was out to get you period. I think I'll start a thread for discussing comments that got sent down the MW monitor hole. Those tell just as much or more of the censorship story. PARTICULARY in such a radical step as Jeff's banning cause they could have just sent his comment down the hole instead. Jeff is too knowledgeable to suit some people and had to go.. - American

american, so many of my comments when I would try to reply to eee or hophmi when they would say things such as "well after 911 its not a big deal to search a bunch of arabs in the airport, people are naturally scared now" or other garbage about swiss neutrality in WW2 or hophmi acting like a holocasut survivor because his friend's aunt's grandma loved israel....blah blah blah. All down... more... - IranContraScumDid911

MRW, is that true about Hostage? I thought after he threw his little hissy fit about me and got me banned, that he started commenting again. - Robert Werdine

American, it is likely some were out to get Jeff. J. Slater and David Green are likely candidates imo. I wish we knew who it was brought these two 'liberal' zionists on board the mondo ship. - patm

American, let us know when you get your thread going so we can subscribe to it. - patm

patm, add Bruce to your list. All three of those, but especially Green and Wolman, are excellent examples of what Jeff described above - the coralling of the "left" and/or "progressives" into a bull pen, there to strain at the ropes and slowly wither on the vine. I watched the all out efforts to do the same with Occupy - with some - but not complete success. I believe the incompleteness... more... - Danaa

Patm...it's up now....I gave a few example on it already. Got any to share? - American

Why are we all on a Zuckerburg site (Friendfeed)? I can’t make suggestions until Eben Moglen gets his FreedomBox going. But Zuckerburg has the internet morals of a dead snake. We are now all subject to the data mining of the Z phenom. Everything we write here is being scooped up and matched with all our other online activity. Does anyone know of a place where we can go to (an Icelandic site?) that is protected by a country’s privacy laws? - MRW

Danaa, Donald made subpar arguments. Sounded like a whining 12-year-old. My sister got a new 11-month pedigree puppy to replace the dead dog her husband had. She did this after hubby wailed for nine months that no one understood him, no one loved him--actually said that-- like the dead-dog to which she asked herself: What am I? Chopped liver? They had an in-house dog, ten years old. The... more... - MRW

Robert Werdine, it had nothing to do with you. You can check Hostage’s archive. He wrote why he would leave, should he do so. I have no clue what has provoked his pulling back, but he was commenting without a lot of the regulars engaging him, and those who remained, all the new people--Donald’s friends??--are boring and not up to his towering intellect. They don’t even pay him the respect of checking his archives; why should he write everything seven times. - MRW

When I first started reading the comments at Mondoweiss, I picked up that Donald was a web sayan (or whatever Israel's internet goytoys are called, if he's not Jewish) right off the bat. The "miss manners routine" is usually a dead give away the person is a web sayan. It's a rather primitive discussion strawman used to disrupt conversation commonly used by Israel's minions. What made... more... - mark e

Sayanim From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Sayanim (sing. Sayan; Hebrew: helpers, assistants) refers to Diaspora Jews who provide assistance to the Mossad.[1] Gordon Thomas estimates that in the United States and Britain, there are at least 20,000 sayanim who aid Israel's intelligence agencies in a number of ways.[2] Generally-speaking, these non-Israeli Jewish volunteers are asked... more... - patm

This is more relevant outside of 9/11, and indicates the various methods by which Israel and Jewish criminal networks can get serious info on most anyone in the US (phone records, and even wire-taps). I would confidently guess that AIPAC garners info from phone records to keep tabs on people, and even blackmail them, but that is needless guesswork.... The record of AIPAC messing with... more... - anonymouscomments

patm - the wikipedia entry grossly underestimates the numbers. In London alone, there were 7000 sayanim back in the mid 80's. That was before the internet got going and doesn't include the rest of the UK, or the world, for that matter. When one realizes that there are around 250k Jewish people in the UK, and that 7000 figure is for London alone, and that there are 6 mil+ Jewish people... more... - mark e

Everybody -- remember that you do not have to restrict your posts to this thread. Make comments and original posts anywhere in the group: http://friendfeed.com/mondowe... Stretch out. Diversify. Unclump. - Sean McBride

MRW -- if you can point us to a better discussion platform than this one, I'm all ears. We can all migrate to it. - Sean McBride

I'm anxious to see what Eben Moglen comes up with, Sean. The foundation he created last year: http://freedomboxfoundation.org/ . The videos: http://vimeo.com/25835475 what started it: http://vimeo.com/20945434 the précis of that starting talk: http://vimeo.com/20034456 This is so far beyond the ken of fossils like Jerry Slater (and whatever MW finds valuable in him) that it's laughable. [This is technology for the Blankforts of the world, not the Slaters...and it will be here soon.] - MRW

MRW -- I am going to watch that closely -- thanks for the pointer. Discussion software is still in its infancy -- it is going to get much better. At the moment I really appreciate the sleekness, flexibility and "libertarian" features of Friendfeed. The person who masterminded it -- Paul Buchheit (the creator of Gmail) -- is a world class genius in my opinion -- probably smarter than... more... - Sean McBride

Let's hope Paul Buchheit is watching what Moglen is doing (Moglen is guru to open source/freedom software people) and that he's contributing as well. Be Sure to watch the first video link I listed. It's short...15 min. The longer Freedom in the Cloud one is great too, but then I'm geeky. - MRW

For those who don't know -- Paul Buchheit was a big wheel at Google -- perhaps their most important and visionary programmer. He developed Friendfeed after leaving Google and then sold it to Facebook and Zuckerberg, where it has been sitting in limbo ever since. - Sean McBride

You know that Google motto "don't be evil"? Buchheit coined it. I'm not sure that Google is paying attention to that ideal any longer. No one can no longer be confident about who has access to all that sensitive personal data that Google now owns and mines. (Does Mossad have full access? Would they abuse that knowledge? I wouldn't be surprised.) - Sean McBride

Then Paul Buchheit is definitely aware of what Moglen's doing. Since Moglen's Feb 5, 2010 talk, he's got over 200,000 programmers worldwide working with him. The great thing about Moglen's talks is that he's so damned entertaining as well as smart. That initial talk is what caused Zuckerburg to agree to an IPO. He saw the writing on the wall....and he immediately invested in the first project to come out of that talk. - MRW

Thanks MRW, I watched the Moglen talk, very entertaining and instructive. - chauncey

I endorse the notion of "unclumping" these discussions, but in the case of this one I hope it continues gloriously clumped for awhile. This thread is like a party in celebration of the "virtual mentor." Every entry is like another signature on a petition asking for an end to the ban. - chauncey

Introducing Facebook Timeline: The End of Free Will http://www.youtube.com/watch... "Welcome to Timeline. The future is here, well, we own that now, too." - Mark Zuckerberg. - mark e

This brought a smile. From the right hand column at Mondoweiss, by order of listing: Our Writers, Philip Weiss, Adam Horowitz, Jeffrey Blankfort. - mark e

mark e- ha ha. scratch what i said, after logging out, it changed. but i noticed he had contributed 119 posts! and also 12 WITH phil! this banning makes less and less sense the more i think about it. it was always inexcusable, but WTF pressured phil to do such a rude unwarranted (self-destructive) thing? .....they goldstoned him somehow. - anonymouscomments

The fact that he won't comment on the banning or offer a defense of his decision makes that the only possible conclusion. He's ashamed of what he did and knows it's indefensible, but the reason he did it is even worse. - potsherd

mous---. agreed,it makes no sense. Since he was an author on the site, if his comments were suddenly in breach of a rule, you would expect he would be informed of that...and then his comments would be monitored henceforth...but instead,unceremoniously booted...something else was at play...I wonder if JB's willingness to engage in discussion about the holes in the Official Story may have helped to put a target on his back as well... it may not have just been supposed H denial transgressions. - chauncey

MRW - find us another Israel site beside MW. I know what is going on. It's always been right in front of our faces. - American

I think this post is also appropriate here: One way people can counteract this sort of censorship is to post here their comments which are censored (under the matching thread to the one at Mondoweiss). This can have the potential benefit of dissuading further unreasonable censorship because what is censored is available for all to see that want to. The sort of censorship Mondoweiss is... more... - mark e

American, please explain further what you mean by your comment "I know what is going on". - Taxi

Mark e, good thinking batman! - Taxi

On the Elizabeth Warren thread, I just posted the following regarding the newbie poster dms: "I can’t believe Jeffrey Blankfort gets banned and obvious phoney plants like dms get through to distract with the mouthy village idiot routine. Unreal". Okay so let's see if the mod allow this double-entrande. - Taxi

Okay my above comment DID NOT MAKE IT THROUGH. LOL touchy zingged out moderators! - Taxi

I’m putting this here, although it’s horribly OT, because it will get read, and says something about a vaunted source at MW (although as I note, I don’t understand the significance of it). This is from the official press release for the Wikileaks 5 million emails from STRATFOR: “The Stratfor emails reveal a company that cultivates close ties with US government agencies and employs... more... - MRW

Taxi, dms isn’t a newbie handle. It was there before the archives started. And as I recall, it was thought to be a troll then. - MRW

It was immediately crustal clear to me that dms, newbie or not, is a fanatic zionist on a mission to disrupt - fucking time-wasting moron - total zionist ham! Bugger it if I'm not pissed that Jeffrey is banned but a total phoney creep like dms gets approval by the mondo execs. I never thought Phil or Adam would ever stoop to slapping the face of the god of reason. Such smart guys - what the fuck happened?! - Taxi

What are all the ties between Stratfor and the Israeli government? Inquiring minds want to know. - Sean McBride

"Such smart guys - what the fuck happened?!" anonymouscomments says they've been "Goldstoned". Sounds reasonable to me,Taxi. Yuk! - patm

Sean McBride - "What are all the ties between Stratfor and the Israeli government?" Think of a private intelligence outfit with access to most of the secrets of the official American intelligence services and is staffed by many Johnathan Pollards. This Wikileaks leak might prove a lot more informative than the diplomatic cables. It appears to be the first time Wikileaks has exposed something substantial about the Israelis. This is only speculation, we'll have to see what they really got. - mark e

patm, I would just like to know for sure what happened. I don't dig second-guessing them. I know it's their site and they don't owe us an explanation, but I really do think, in the name of 'civility', considering the tens of thousands of hours that the combined bloggers put into the site, well I think we actually DESERVE a straight forward god honest explanation. Speculating on this otherwise sucks eggs for life! - Taxi

patm/taxi- i used "goldstoned" in a very loose sense. i hate to guess at the specifics, but due to the opaqueness of the banning, even to blankfort himself it seems, we are only left to guess at this point (and hopelessly ask for an explanation). my "best guess" as dangerous as such is- - anonymouscomments

MW being goldstoned- i think it possible the more judeocentric forces at MW (perhaps mods, authors, and even some funders) wanted to make the website, especially the comments section, more palatable to the jewish community (read- "liberal zionists"). too much (undeservedly) taboo commentary, and harsh criticism of the jewish collective scares away most ALL in the jewish community. if... more... - anonymouscomments

anonymouscomments -- good guesses, probably. In the ballpark methinks. - Sean McBride

"Goldstoned" is going to become a major word in the English language, I'll bet. The actual event which gave rise to the term was so amazingly conspicuous. - Sean McBride

And if "Goldstoning" doesn't work, there is always "Wellstoning". - mark e

"so i also think phil's inner jew may have played a role, and he "goldstoned" himself...." I think your entire analysis excellent, mous. But such "confusing behaviour" doesn't augur well for getting the Palestinians out from under the Israeli boot any time soon. Liberal Zionists don't *want* to give up their impossible dream and they will talk on and on.... But without me. I'll not forgive Phil for banning Jeff Blankfort. - patm

I don't forgive him either. And I think he took the wrong decision at a key fork in the road. Dont mistake my possible understanding of his decision as excusing or supporting it. The only hope for justice is to put the US positioning on the conflict in largely secular, justice minded, and "US-firster" hands..... the Jewish collective can play a minor role, and such should be largely... more... - anonymouscomments

I thought Mondoweiss monitored comment posts of everyone? Some posts appear to get posted right away, other posts, posted by other people and posted chronologically earlier, sit in limbo for quite a while. Does Mondoweiss wave the post moderation for some people? - mark e

Well, Slater is finished with MW...I wonder if he was banned for that vile mail to annie. --from his blog..."Jerome Slater said... Thanks, Anonymous. (*not our anonymous)You and others should know that I don't intend to publish any further comments of this ilk. Let me take this opportunity to say that I have broken with Mondoweiss, for precisely the reasons you suggest. I will no longer... more... - American

"vile mail to annie". Really? I never read that controversial Slater thread and at this stage I can't be bothered - my my what a minefield it turned out to be. - Taxi

"Slater is finished with MW" I believe so, American. Phil said as much himself on one thread, referring to the absence of Slater's pic on the list of mondo writers. (I don't think I've hallucinated this.) - patm

"Does Mondoweiss wave the post moderation for some people?" I imagine so. MHughes for example, a careful scholarly fellow whom I admire and miss. There are others as well, I'm sure. My posts were bounced on several occasions but I could see the justice of it: they were impulsive rude comments about the trolls. I wonder now if my hounding the trolls contributed to the 'goldstoning' of and by Phil. Some, I'm sure, were 'respectable' 'upstanding' creatures with fat egos and much outraged indignation. - patm

American, let us know where we can find your blog. Taxi, how about you? Is there a way to keep up with you? I'm going to spend time working with Toronto I/P activists who have lately incorporated into their anti-apartheid stance a solidarity with Canada's First Nations. - patm

I've just had notification of my monthly financial contribution to mondo. I expect I will cancel this, though I'm not sure. Mondo is getting out word of the occupation to many people...but then I think, so? Let the 'liberal' Jewish Zionists pay Phil's bills. It's their site now and always has been. - patm

Helllllllllowwwwwww patm! I'm about to subscribe to your friendfeed page - we can stay in touch through there and I would really love that! Even fake shias are welcome to be my friend (you know who you are uhuh werdine!) hahahaha! - Taxi

Bottom line for me: Phil Weiss is still promoting remarkable research and discussion about Mideast politics on Mondoweiss. If he banned me from the comments section, I would still read it attentively and highly recommend it. Good stuff, smart stuff and brave stuff. Regarding the touch of tribalism and ethnocentrism in his posts: I like that. It's honest. He's wrestling with it, trying... more... - Sean McBride

Bottom line for me, Sean: The term "liberal Zionist" is an oxymoron. They are Zionists period. - patm

patm -- my impression of Phil Weiss from the overall arc of his writings is that he is a non-Zionist or anti-Zionist, not a liberal Zionist. He tries to keep his lines of communication open with liberal Zionists with the intention of trying to move them towards his position. - Sean McBride

patm -- now, should Phil also abandon his ethnic and cultural identity, as well as ethnic nationalism? Why should he? I think we all derive a great deal of nourishment from our respective ethnic and cultural identities -- I know I do. My European, British and Irish roots mean something to me -- I will easily acknowledge that. - Sean McBride

patm -- that being said, something odd has been going on behind the scenes at Mondoweiss for the last few months, but I don't what. It feels like some people might be trying to Goldstone Phil, but I can't be sure. - Sean McBride

Mondoweiss continues to kick it hard -- check out the latest Mondoweiss posts for the last week or so in this stream. Where else can you find this discussion on the net? - Sean McBride

I have downloaded and bookmarked (by MW page within the PDF) all of Blankfort’s and Hostage’s comments. Two separate docs. Hostage’s last day commenting was Feb 22. ANYONE WANT A COPY? AND WHO HAS AN IDEA FOR DISTRIBUTION? I still have to optimize Hostage’s comments for the Adobe Reader, which will let you mark up and highlight sections even if you don’t have the professional Adobe... more... - MRW

mark e -- "Wellstoning" -- I hear you. Paul Wellstone. And that's no hype -- these days Israel seems to assassinate anyone who offends it without hesitation or compunction. Politics by false flag ops, black ops and assassinations. A light unto the nations? - Sean McBride

MRW -- nice work. What about posting them on Scribd? Google Docs? Tumblr? Dropbox? - Sean McBride

Compare what Jeff Blankfort said to this comment by teta just yesterday that wasn't censored by MW .... >>> "one more indication that 'holocaust denial' is a pernicious tactic used by zionists. the evidence that zionists pushed Great Britain and US into WWI AND WWII is abundant. It is silenced & censored by the same tactics that pushed the US into Iraq and squelched opposition,... more... - American

If Phil is being Goldstoned and I were he, I would have announced it to the blog and asked for everyone's support financially and otherwise. I think everyone would have rallied round. The fact that MW hasn't changed it's thrust and is back displaying the Israel firsters problem a good bit, as we see by recent postings, makes me think it's something else. Now he's lost some valuable... more... - American

Doesn't that go far, far beyond anything Jeff Blankfort ever said? - Sean McBride

Ah -- with truly effective Goldstoning you keep your mouth damned well shut about what happened if you know what's good for you. Don't you see how that works? - Sean McBride

Sean--Looks like it went beyond to me. I can't figure it out. When I compare my censored comment about Jewish political consultants as possible influencers on politicians to some of what isn't censored it makes no sense. What I am wondering is if my use of "Jewish" instead of 'zionist" when commenting on these political consultants is the catch. However I didn't identify them as... more... - American

"should Phil also abandon his ethnic and cultural identity, as well as ethnic nationalism? Why should he?" Sean, Zionism is an extreme right wing political ideology based on a religion. Phil doesn't need to abandon his ethnic and cultural identity, i.e. his membership in the tribe of Jews. I'd assumed he'd long since abandoned any affinity for Jewish nationalism, ie Zionism. Perhaps he has. But deep down where it counts, maybe not. - patm

Teta's long vehement comment getting through moderation is pretty strange, American. Maybe it was your use of the word Jews instead of zionists. Have you thought of posting it again, using the word Israel firsters or zionists? Might be an interesting experiment. - patm

My read on the mods is that there is one amongst them who's a stickler - not a fan of the comment section or commentators. You can tell when he/she is on the beat - frigging police EVERYTHING! Mod X's vibe reminds me of donald's vibe. - Taxi

Surely there must be a way to use the "J" word in the same way we describe Christians, Muslims, Germans, Irish, Chinese, etc. -- in a straightforward, truthful, fair, neutral and objective way, without any assumed insinuations or innuendos. There are good, bad and middling Jews and Jewish groups, just as there are for all other ethnic, religious, national and ideological aggregations.... more... - Sean McBride

patm -- I think Phil worries about anti-Zionism in some cases morphing into dangerous anti-Semitism. I worry about it. We should all worry about it. I have seen many instances of that in fact occurring. - Sean McBride

Sean, to your last comment, and in general- then HOW did teta's comment get through? I had one where I *referenced* the protocols get though, then promptly disappear. That was expected. Teta's comment, though it may or may not have any good factual backing, lacks ANY of the sincere nuance needed when making such comments. Teta's comment as is, is absurd, and I even expect her to be... more... - anonymouscomments

Sean (re your latest comment to patm) -- it’s called power to set the agenda. And that power is slipping away because (1) average Americans are fed up with the hypocrisy, which Sin Nombre outlines here (although it’s confusing to read unless you go slowly...he omits necessary segues)... more... - MRW

anonymouscomments -- probably there are multiple moderators, with differing standards, and in different moods on different days and even at different times of the day. What a thankless and tedious task moderating must be -- it's not something that I would ever want to do. - Sean McBride

Shouldn't we be able to use the following terms -- and many others like it -- truthfully, fairly, objectively, and without a hint of anti-Semitic malice? -- 1. Jewish billionaire 2. Jewish extremist 3. Jewish fundamentalist 4. Jewish gangster 5. Jewish lobby 6. Jewish militant 7. Jewish nationalist 8. Jewish neoconservative 9. Jewish organized crime 10. Jewish terrorist. Does one really... more... - Sean McBride

They shouldn't be moderating for a living if they don't like it. You're too kind, Sean. I actually think one of them is anti-commentary, anti-language, awfully unimaginative yet prone to mild episodes of paranoia. Kinda like a bureaucrat at their desk on a monday morning vibe. I kept asking 'who guards the dog' throughout the years of blogging on mw, but no one ever gave me an answer. - Taxi

sean- i do pity the mods, but despise the ones who creatively moderate. i just am floored by teta's comment. if that comment was made, and got through.... what has teta had moderated?!??! i don't see how teta's comment could be made, see the light of day, and her (he?) remain active. in fact, i think that comment by teta is the worst i've ever seen on MW, and about the only comment i've... more... - anonymouscomments

Sean -- Yes, when those terms are applicable, absolutely. My memory with MW is that outright antisemites were trashed along with the Jesus-gave-us-Israel-in-1922 crowd. I don’t know what “inciting antisemitism” means anymore. Yehuda Bauer, the director of Yad Vashem, described antisemitism as “the concept“ that Jews, no matter where they were in the world, did not have a right to exist.... more... - MRW

Thanks for the PDF storage ideas, Sean. I wont use Scribd because it makes people pay. But I’ll figure something out and perhaps post it as a separate thread here on Mondoweiss FriendFeed, unles you ahev a better idea. - MRW

Here is an example of raw and malevolent anti-Semitism in the use of the "J" word: ""Progressives" are working with Zionist-extraordinaire P.R. firm to get back in good graces with Jewish moneybags" http://www.judeofascism.com/2012... "Jewish moneybags"? Really? - Sean McBride

also sean.... we do try to phrase things such that it cannot "stoke anti-semitism" (as if we have that much power). but the BOTTOM line is this... the JEWISH COMMUNITY needs to get its act together, and change their *collective* politics, for THAT is really the most significant source of anti-semitism. i can be as nuanced as i am, all day long, but grassroots antisemitism is NOT going... more... - anonymouscomments

Well, that teta comment, bad as it is, is hardly different in substance than any of the zionist promoting comments or their slander of anti-zionists that are filling up Mondoweiss at an ever increasing rate. As far as I'm concerned, the defect in the human psyche that is behind nazism is also behind zionism. There is no "soft" or "liberal" version of either. - mark e

anonymouscomments, I just went to the original TMMe comment. There’s actually a lot of truth to it, and a lot of wisdom there, something that Avrum Berg (former head of the Knesset) wrote a whole book about. (The following is not meant for you, it’s rhetorical.) Why is it so difficult to look at history clearly? Why don’t people want to know the aching, profound truth of what caused... more... - MRW

Grant Smith’s article is really worth reading. http://original.antiwar.com/smith-g... - MRW

"Have you thought of posting it again, using the word Israel firsters or zionists? Might be an interesting experiment. - patm "......No and I'm not going to. What do you call an individual who is Jewish besides a Jew when his religious or ethnic identity is germane to what you are talking about? How do you say Jewish without saying Jewish? I am not going to let them dictate my language... more... - American

American - "This is America, this ain't Israel and they are not going to make the rules here." I agree. - mark e

I'm with American: "f'em"! F'em ALL! - Taxi

MRW- i actually know a little about the jewish/zionist role in WW1 and WW2... perhaps it was somewhat critical in having things play out the way they did (i'm not that much of a historian so am agnostic). i sure as hell think zionists were key in pushing the 9/11 false flag, and if the iran thing pops off, zionists will be undeniable leaders in sparking that insanity. what surprises me... more... - anonymouscomments

but ok taxi and american, this is getting ridiculous ;) f'it and f'em all. i am at effing work for christ's sake. .... crap, i gotta go be productive here to finance these zionist wars!!!! - anonymouscomments

C'mon people - you gotta let teta be teta and say what she wants - we gotta be able to explore and study unmainstream thinking as well as mainstream thinking, ugly and dirty or lovely and sweet as it may be. Simply, any kinda thought-censorship is not right. We're either a free society or we're not a free society and a sure sign of a free society is that it's people are allowed to think anything they want to without fear of punishment. - Taxi

"My final position on this censorship ploy is f''em"." I agree whole-heartedly, American. - patm

I commend teta for saying what she thinks. Pointing out her post was not criticism, it was for comparison..I applaud her! - American

MRW,count me in for JB and Hostage comments, thx - chauncey

Looking at my earlier comment, it looks like I was saying teta is a nazi. That's not what I think and teta is one of the comment writers at Mondoweiss whom I usually agree with what they write. The comparison between nazis and zionists wasn't supposed to imply anything about teta, it's my view about how those cults are similar in mindset. Two sides of the same coin. I was trying to make... more... - mark e

The "New Mondoweiss" the "mood" in the backrooms: http://mondoweiss.net/2012... - mark e

I went to the mw link above that mark e linked to and I just posted the following - we'll see if the mighty mods let it through. "Palestine don't need mondoweiss and her new zionist bedfellows. Every Palestinian writer should think twice about writing articles for this newly annointed zionist publication. Their interests are no more about justice in the holyland, but how to please... more... - Taxi

taxi it went though... http://mondoweiss.net/2012... i feel i may need to do the same, after this weekend. i think they are going more liberal zionist and tribal, and i'm a secular non-theist through and through (i just cite my dad's jewish heritage as a cheap trick to attempt to get moderate jews... more... - anonymouscomments

mous, I honestly think that they wanna keep the debate now on a 101 hasbara loop. Hey I don't mind if mondo is now a zionist salon, but I do really OBJECT to being muzzled by the new zionist-friendly rules. I can't think or write with rules like that. I don't see Hostage around - was he banned too or is he on strike? Why don't the mondo bloggers go on a 4 week strike? Seriously. See... more... - Taxi

taxi- i still think phil has good *intentions*. we all can fight the ziocane idiots with our eyes closed... and we don't mind taking turns doing it, so letting them in is OK (i think it serves a purpose). but unless we are ALSO allowed to share facts and develop our more deep opinions and knowledge.... we are bored shitless. they took JB away for no good reason, then tightened the... more... - anonymouscomments

Anyone want to start a new blog site for ex-MWers? I will contribute. Blankfort suggested that it was Horowitz to blame. I didn’t buy it until I saw his anti-Atzmon post. Phil has been betrayed. EDIT: Unless I’m wrong about Phil as well. But I dont think so. Now. - MRW

mous, when i first started blogging on 12th september 2001, you couldn't even mention the '48 border - it was even considered too radical to talk about the '67 border - the discourse was so harshly policed by zionists and their minions. Over time, so much truth and fact info about israel's crimes against humanity has been disseminated and I think a fair amount of reasonable people have... more... - Taxi

MRW, j'accuse Adam - fine piece of accountant he turned out to be! - Taxi

Funny thing that 9/11... They thought they would push along the clash of civilizations and run all over the middle east.... Zionists and the MIC united in crime. Instead it seams Americans, for all the pervasive uneducated bigotry (fanned by the MSM), for the most part ignored the bait. Even if people do not understand the darker side of 9/11, it made so many people realize we were part... more... - anonymouscomments

okay I just posted the following on mw in response to chaos: http://mondoweiss.net/2012.... "You and I go back a long way – back to the hufpost days. We’ve done years of blogging and I think we’ve put a dent or two in the ziorobot’s temples. This will indeed continue, with or without mondo. You, or... more... - Taxi

Even if people don't get 9/11, even the official story tells a stark truth.... there are people out there who violently hate US policy in the middle east, and they have VALID grievances. They made the plot believable... but they didn't realize all the composed reasonable people in the world would not succumb to blind rage, and would figure out why they "hate us". And take corrective action. - anonymouscomments

MRW, I'm up for making regular contributions to a new site - just direct me there. - Taxi

Taxi, I believe American has a blog site. - MRW

Where is American's blog? - Taxi

I promise to get Blankfort and Hostage’s PDFs of comments up within the next 2 to 3 days. Family back in town visiting beginning tomorrow, I am chief humor king here. Not that any of you would know that. - MRW

Taxi: No se. EDIT:But he mentioned it above...somewhere. - MRW

Okeedowkee MRW. I subscribed to your ff page yesterday - if you subscribe back i'll be able to email you directly - I need to share something important with you. - Taxi

I'm not sure putting all the blame on Horowitz is accurate. The site is called MondoWEISS. Weiss has been quite forthright in displaying his hostility to Blankfort recently. If he really didn't like what Horowitz, or whoever, was doing, he could simply start a new site and let Mondohorowitz atrophy. My gut feeling, given Weiss' chauvinistic attitude about being in an "elite" place in humanity because of his Jewish background, as he has said himself, says he and Horowitz are on the same wavelength. - mark e

mark e, it's clear that it's adam's standards that are being imposed on us. Phil is responsible yes cuz he's letting adam take the controls. I question the agenda behind adam's standards. Like the neocon zios are trying to break syria to weaken iran, the zios have broken adam and now control phil. No question about it - neither of them is as free as they used to be. - Taxi

In the original "Lull" thread, since censored into silence, a number of posters stated that if matters didn't improve and the Blankfort banning wasn't addressed on the site, they would leave as of March 1. That's tomorrow. - potsherd

yeah pots, I said that, and I'm doing it. You can follow my today's posting on mw regarding jeffreygate and my resignation here: http://mondoweiss.net/2012... - Taxi

Guys, I don't have a blog, don't know how that rumor got started. BUT.. I 'm all for contributing financially and otherwise to one. I'm too techinically and time challenged to run one by myself. - American

I second American's proposition. don't have the tec skills or the time, but got a bit of spare money. - Taxi

Request....if anyone has hispanic friends ask them about current hispanic political blogs please. I've been looking for hispanic and Black American political bogs to raise the Israel I/P issue and comments on. I found two hispanic ones that did have Israel featured but they were out of date and not active. - American

Yeah, monkey see monkey do - I want what American wants too hahahaha. Seriously though, it's a damn good idea American! - Taxi

It appears Mondoweiss has lost all integrity, other than as a news aggregator. That Steve guy’s comments about the honor of AIPAC in the link Taxi gives above was galling. The regular crew would have shut the guy down, Hostage would have supplied the links to the truth, Jeffrey Blankfort would have recounted direct conversation and historical data. There is no point in contributing there. Why waste the time? - MRW

We don’t need money to create another site. We need a Tumblr or free Wordpress thingey. Or maybe we do need a webhost. For that I suggest Bluehost and we get a free domain. http://bestwebsitehosts.com/ We should call it alt-mondoweiss.com so that we benefit from searches. Or mondoweiss-alt.com - MRW

MRW -- would Tumblr or Wordpress provide a better framework and set of features for sharing information and pursuing discussions than Friendfeed? I don't think so. What specific features are you looking for? - Sean McBride

I’m not looking for anything, Sean. Just adding my two cents about the notion of migrating to a domained blog. But perfectly happy to stay with this. - MRW

I'm interested in pursuing the discussion on whatever platform provides the most powerful features. I'm not sure everyone here understands the available features on Friendfeed. :) They are fairly sophisticated (search, for instance, is amazingly capable). Show me a better platform and I'll migrate. - Sean McBride

We need a site that doesn't have other life stuff going on expect how the I/P conflict effects America. With a main page and archives and article contributions from a collective of experienced bloggers and contributing writers - we can rotate editorial duties. Like the Angry Arab, but a co-operative. Maybe we should call it The Angry American hahahaha1 - Taxi

Set it up and see if it works. - Sean McBride

If you can wait a few days, Ill set it up. I have family obligations until the 3rd, at least. We should use a name with mondoweiss in it so that all the regulars, and more importantly, the news media and bloggers who follow mondoweiss will see it in a search. - MRW

A important point to keep in mind: Mondoweiss is an influential blog because Phil Weiss is a very bright mind, an original thinker and a first-class writer. That is the *only* reason Mondoweiss is so influential. Remove Weiss from the product and Mondoweiss would collapse. It's a very difficult thing indeed to create a blog that acquires global resonance. - Sean McBride

People are so intellectually and emotionally engaged with Mondoweiss -- which was created by Phil Weiss and is really at bottom his blogging platform -- that it triggered the outpouring of comments we have seen just in this group. How many blogs around the world stimulate so much vital conversation? Credit due. - Sean McBride

Maybe we could get Hostage back. - MRW

OK, I’ll set it up, and pay for it, and I will set it so that a whole bunch of you are in control of it as well. will do this by the 4th. I created a hushmail account. There’s free and premium hushmail. Suggest you set one up yourselves. It is the most secure encrypted email system on earth; the spooks’ favorite. My email address is mrw@hushmail.me. Sean, Taxi, Anonymous, American,... more... - MRW

IF THIS IS ANATHEMA to anyone here, let me know. I am willing to do this, not demanding to do this. We have a few days to think about it. Bluehost lets me install Wordpress for free and there are free Wordpress templates that will allow for archives and all that. If anyone has any insight to this, fire away. - MRW

OK, I’m off to do a million chores and put out fires for the rest of the day and part of the night. - MRW

Let's do it MRW - not to be in competition with phil etc, but just to have a decent place to discuss the i/p from an americancentric view instead of a zionist or jewish one. But we need a name. - Taxi

Last word for a few hours: Sean, I would like you to be the Head Knocker of this, if we set it up. I can do the grunge work of setting it up and paying the dues, but this FF is your idea and you have a nice style that I think should carry over. Think about it. - MRW

Taxi, the name has to have mondoweiss in it. I suggested alt-mondoweiss OR mondoweiss-alt - MRW

I like the idea of what Sean has done here. We pick up the Mondoweiss articles then we contribute as we always did before. Simple. We are not in competition with Phil, we are augmenting that site with more intelligent, cogent commenters. The comments comparison between the two sites will be hilarious. ;-) - MRW

Sounds interesting, and even if it just offers an uncensored outlet for us to connect and share ideas that works. I think there are two ideas (1) mirror mondoweiss and allow uncensored comments (2) an actual blog where we put original and "syndicated" articles... this is infinitely more work, and could sink or swim, but might be interesting if we can get articles from the likes of blankfort and atzmon. [the angry american a great name!] - anonymouscomments

To mirror MW with unmoderated comments, we could likely just get a free wordpress website... - anonymouscomments

anonymous, we can do both 1 and 2. 2 will or would develop in time. If we get a free wordpress website, does wordpress have the power to censor? Has it ever done that with content? Because we would be sitting on WP’s servers. Bluehost leaves you alone and the annual fee is de minimus. PLUS we would get a free domain name, not something that reflects siting at WP. - MRW

agreed on the bluehost then, if only to lock in the domain. - anonymouscomments

MRW -- I like your idea and hope it takes off as another alternative platform and outlet for discussion of Mondoweiss-centric issues. But I have no interest in acquiring any authority or control, no matter how gentle and inconspicuous, in any forum (including the one in which are now exchanging thoughts) -- I've really become addicted to the libertarian and decentralized style of... more... - Sean McBride

Yay Sean McBride for president! Smooth, sound, operator. Love his style and fair-handed sensibility. Perfect candidate. And yeah it keeps it simple to at first just link to mondo articles and discuss. - Taxi

Moderation can be done in shifts by the collective - really only to weed out the islamophobes and anti-semites and other undeserables with willful Turret Syndorme. - Taxi

As said I am ignorant about a lot of net thingys but heard once that 'names" and the letters in them have something to do with how they come up on a google search.....I don't really know what I'm talking about here ..:) but maybe someone does. "If' that is true then the name of the blog would be important cause it might attract people searching for key words like Israel. I like taxi's... more... - American

Well, it’s done. I bought and paid for a year of mondoweiss-alt.net. Will set up the wordpress part in the next four days and will be adding your emails as full compatriots in the admin panel...so send me same at mrw@hushmail.me. If it works, it works. If not, not. It will be unmoderated except for jerk-off viagra ads. I really wont be paying much attention to it until the 3rd or 4th of... more... - MRW

P.S. I paid extra to get Postini. It eliminates the standard spam that a website/blog gets. I also paid extra for all kinds of backup and data security. All I want to do is provide a place where commenters remarks can be archived, where Blankfort and others can get heard. It’s so hard to archive anyone’s comments here. You have to open each “more” comment individually. And I am the inveterate saver. ;- ) - MRW

Thanks MRW! Keep a tab of your expenses for those of us who want to share it. Check in with us in a few days then. In the meantime, go have your good self some fun fun fun! Hope wordy werdine checks in too hahahaha! - Taxi

Sneaking one in here while the family is debating: I’m going to rig it so that there is a monster link to this FriendFeed. - MRW

It's too bad Worldcrossing went out of business. They had a very easy to use and very adaptable forum building site that was not moderated except for when personal attacks got real world personal. One could pretty much do anything that could be done on a blog site with a site that one set up there. The layout was much better than a blog because there could be many dozens of different... more... - mark e

This new website idea is cool. I have enjoyed being on this feed since it started and have spent more time reading here than on MW, especially after the "lull" post when I realized that JB really was cut loose. I'm a newcomer to I/P, its only been a couple of years since I've been hip, but I follow it closely now. What led me to MW was hearing an interview of Weiss by Kevin Barrett, who I've referenced before. - chauncey

mark e, when you say Weiss' forthright hostility to JB, obviously he cut him off without warning and sent him the good news, bad news email that JB described...is there anything more? - chauncey

Chauncey - One could see Weiss' hostility towards Blankfort on the Slater thread. He was especially hostile to Blankfort talking about zionist-nazi relations. I think that was when Weiss decided to drop the axe and they set up Donald's thread as a trial balloon. One could see that Weiss was hostile to any criticism of Jewish people that went beyond blaming extreme zionism of some at the... more... - mark e

thx for the expansion. I re-read the thread and see at one point he accused him of reductivism. Then later he offered this, which seemed to be a "can't we all get along" plea, which didn't jibe with subsequent developments: "The thing I like the most about this site is that we can talk about heretical ideas openly, and that by doing so we can move the mainstream debate. Yes, I bend over... more... - chauncey

interesting quote chauncey, forgot that comment. oddly JB was very civil, in the face of slater calling him an anti-semite among other things. based on phil's words (and he is pretty straightforward), i am more convinced than ever he bent to stern pressure from adam and/or others. still culpable though.... - anonymouscomments

the bigger question is if i can support a blog that ousted someone i respect, and did so unjustifiably and so unceremoniously. if there was a ready replacement for MW i would leave in a second.... but for now i'm still torn. can anyone suggest something like MW, but perhaps minus the whole "tribal" angle? a palestine blog/news source where you can find the same level of discourse? - anonymouscomments

RE: the Weiss quote (or liberal zionists and anti anti-zionists in general). They say the "right things", but their actions don't match up with what was spoken. Kind of like politicians. ;) - mark e

" I feel we’re irrelevant if mainstream visitors can’t recognize the language. ..Phil" The problem is Phil doesn't recongize that anti zionist and Israel critical and non Jewish voices ARE the mainstream. Does he ever look at the 1000's of comments in the comments sections of Mainstream press? Maybe he does and takes the general disgust of Americans with Israel and Israel firsters as anti semitism. - American

American - it is responses like those of Weiss and Horowitz to real anti zionism that has me worried that the zionists will be successful in using Jewish paranoia of persecution by non Jews, along with reinforcing that tribal chauvinism, to drive Jewish people further into zionist's arms. Weiss and Horowitz show how susceptible even supposedly free thinking Jewish people can be to such manipulation. - mark e

anonymouscomments -- Mondoweiss is head and shoulders above every other Mideast political discussion forum I've noticed in terms of intellectual quality -- thank Phil for that -- he sets the tone and standard. But I think the quality of discussion has gone down noticeably since Blankfort was ejected. - Sean McBride

mark e -- if Israel succeeds in what McCaffrey is claiming, which is that Israel is going to use nukes against Iran, then the global blowback against Israel and by extension Jews, because it’s a self-proclaimed ‘Jewish State‘, is going to be so horrendous that internal Jewish/Zionist distinctions will be meaningless. Israelis (and Jews) wll be reviled worldwide unlike anything they have... more... - MRW

MRW - I agree completely. I touched upon what you wrote in a couple of posts earlier today in the thread about McCaffery. - mark e

I have a question about something Phil said for anyone who can tell me what he meant. In this article about Nabak ---- http://mondoweiss.net/2012... -he said at the tail end of it that---"It took America 30 years to come to terms with the holocaust". What does that mean? Is he saying America was also to blame for the holocaust? Is he... more... - American

“What coming to terms with the holocaust occured in the US 30 years later?“ Museums and the start of endless shows about it, the mythologizing, or what Finkelstein called The Holocaust Industry. - MRW

I’ll check ‘em out, mark e. - MRW

See this: Targets of attack by the Israel lobby (more than 200 items) http://friendfeed.com/mondowe... Please add any targets of these attacks that I have overlooked -- I am sure there are many. - Sean McBride

Phil has put up his reason for banning Blankfort. "One thing we disagreed on and that became an issue here was the claim of collective American "Jewish responsibility” for support for Israel-- when in fact there are many Jews who are not Zionists, including Adam and me and Jeff Blankfort, too. Also Jeff sought to have a discussion of the Jewish historical role in the rise of the Nazis... more... - MRW

MRW -- do you have the link for Phil's post? - Sean McBride

http://mondoweiss.net/2012... - MRW

Ok, good -- we can discuss it here: http://friendfeed.com/mondowe... - Sean McBride

Yes -- I've cited Dennis Prager and Jerry Muller, and have read all of Walter Lacquer's writings on Zionism. They are more Catholic than the Pope on Jewish and Israeli issues and are pristine sources. David Irving puts out a distinctly weird vibe -- it's too much trouble trying to defend him from a wide range of charges. - Sean McBride

props to Dennis Prager I listen to his show during lunch break - #goconservitive - Dezarie Lewis

I posted disparaging innuendo about "Boycott israel on Campus" on this thread. I regret I did this and apologize to Boycott israel on Campus for those comments. I going to edit them also. - mark e

Mondoweiss on Friendfeed

‘Center for American Progress’ doubles down with lobby - http://mondoweiss.net/2012...

February 25, 2012 from Mondoweiss - Comment - Like - Share

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PR firm that represented neocon thinktank JCPA is now going to bat for the Center for American Progress

Hey, Citizen, just wanna say, I enjoyed your comment on this thread at MW...BTW, I believe JFK sent a letter to Ben-Gurion insisting on a REAL inspection of Dimona,and the very day it was delivered, Ben Gurion resigned, leaving JFKwith no one to negotiate with. - chauncey

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