Claudia Koltzenburg - FriendFeed

? any author here who uses, e.g., WebCite http://www.webcitation.org/, for sustainable references of multimedia files?

Jean-Claude Bradley, Peter Miller, 'Mummi' Thorisson and 2 other people liked this

I am planning to use WebCite for my thesis. - 'Mummi' Thorisson

I use WebCite, but it caused considerable confusion the one time I did so in a formal publication. I sent a letter to the editor at Haematologica, and after several rounds of cluelessness I simply gave up. Part of the cluelessness was that they clearly did not understand WebCite, and wanted me to "verify the date on which I accessed the cited web resources" or some such. Dinosaurs. - Bill Hooker

I 'm afraid there is so many Dinosaurs in our world of Science , especially in medical community ..:( - Ana Ivkovic

I've got some webcite used in a paper coming soon in a PLoS Journal near you - unfortunately they caught my slightly sneaking citations and pushed them into the main text body rather than the references but nonetheless it is a useful service. - Cameron Neylon

thank you, none of my tests has given any positive results for multimedia files, though, did this work out for yours? - Claudia Koltzenburg

No I didn't try with multimedia - as I've not got it to work in the past. Webcite just archives an html copy as I understand it, so multimedia wouldn't be expected to work. Its a problem. - Cameron Neylon

Claudia - as you've just seen http://ff.im/aW3GI we did archive Excel files - I would imagine multimedia files such as m4v might work too - although you would need to supply the viewer - Jean-Claude Bradley

list of OA journals with no author charges? http://friendfeed.com/balanci... publishing 'fair trade'

October 24 - Comment - Like - Share

Björn Brembs liked this

functional citations – what exactly do we want them to do?

September 25 - Comment - Like - Share

Mike Chelen liked this

(Cameron, http://friendfeed.com/claudia...): “A date stamped version of a dynamic document would be a simple example of such a thing but is there a fundamental objection to a / process/ being part of a citation? i.e. take object x and do this set of things to it to see what I saw...” how does this description link to this example http://ff.im/8Dxbc ? -- added later: would any export to WebCite® make the citation a functional citation - or is this overdoing it? :-) - Claudia Koltzenburg

3 more comments

has anyone seen a different term for such a group of items /processes/ around? - Claudia Koltzenburg

latest version of a description, maybe: "take this data from over here and process using that script over there and then display it on this graph so you can see you get the same thing - and more importantly you can start fiddling if you have concerns" http://friendfeed.com/cameron... - Claudia Koltzenburg

does this compare with a methods paper? protocols can be cited if they are published - Mike Chelen

maybe it does, Mike, sounds like an interesting idea, hence two more words, please, on what comparison factors more exactly? - Claudia Koltzenburg

liked this: how do you manage multiple Twitter identities? http://scienceoftheinvisible.b...

September 2 - Comment - Like - Share

Mike Chelen liked this

yup, twhirl and hootsuite are great choices - Mike Chelen

Of course, my most recent strategy has been to abandon one of my Twitter accounts (http://twitter.com/alancann) and turn it into this Friendfeed account. - AJCann

'citation' ;-) .... any web art geeks around? http://friendfeed.com/cameron...

September 11 - Comment - Like - Share

Mike Chelen liked this

'fair trade' online collab/publishing - reconsider accessibility with view to what you are used to expect http://friendfeed.com/brembs... (Bjoern in Tokyo), http://friendfeed.com/danielm... (Claudia in Petersburg) - and what colleagues as yet unknown may not even consider to expect...

September 18 - Comment - Like - Share

Mike Chelen liked this

"We think of publishing as a way of pushing stuff out from where we work on it to someplace else where people can get at it. But when we do our work in the cloud, publishing is really just an invitation to visit us there." Jon Udell http://blog.jonudell.net/2009...

October 8 - Comment - Like - Share

Mike Chelen liked this

how OA ideas are put into practise, Poynder interviews Hilf: http://poynder.blogspot.com/ (6 Oct 2009)

October 9 - Comment - Like - Share

Mike Chelen liked this

OA data peer-reviewed in the accompanying article: Sloan Digital Sky Survey (Data release papers) http://www.sdss.org/dr7...

October 18 - Comment - Like - Share

Mike Chelen liked this

with thanks to Joachim Wambsganss (Heidelberg), "Open Access jenseits von Texten" in today's OA Week Auftaktveranstaltung in Munich http://www.allianz-initiative.de/de... - Claudia Koltzenburg

dr7 is a very interesting and thorough set of data (as is dr6)! really like the download options mentioned at http://www.sdss.org/dr7... - Mike Chelen

ctt.journal@googlewave.com -- so here I am waving and OA publishing, feel free to ping me

October 21 - Comment - Like - Share

Mike Chelen liked this

"Many journal submissions lack any discussion of alternative competing hypotheses" Irene Pepperberg http://www.edge.org/q2008...

October 15 - Comment - Like - Share

research grants: switch from funder prompt to applicant prompt (see mindmap Part III of http://www.mindmeister.com/3016825...)

October 4 - Comment - Like - Share

Mike Chelen liked this

based on this invitation http://ff.im/87bVP initiated by Daniel Mietchen - Claudia Koltzenburg

What would science look like if it were invented today? Part V: Commodification of academic research (mindmapping invitation: http://www.mindmeister.com/de...)

October 2 - Comment - Like - Share

Mike Chelen liked this

well, this is a highly debatable issue: with those many drawbacks of commercialisation/ commodification around, putting this issue under the same general question of "What would science look like if it were invented today?" might also generate some cynicism. Yet, let us see where this takes us. Feel free to join in. - Claudia Koltzenburg

invitation to a mindmapping experiment (in freemind), builds on http://friendfeed.com/danielm... - deals with the issues of the blog post (as suggested by Daniel) as well as the experiment itself, find my mindmap here (within some hours): http://www.mindmappedia.com/...

September 19 - Comment - Like - Share

Mike Chelen, Sebastian Wain, Mr. Gunn and François Dongier liked this

waiting for them to lift the lid... - Daniel Mietchen

2 more comments

me too, alas, any alternative that works without extra invitations to edit? - Claudia Koltzenburg

the mindmap is now available directly in the freemind wiki, here: http://freemind.sourceforge.net/wiki... - Claudia Koltzenburg

in the meantime, the mindmap was moved to http://www.mindmeister.com/3016825... (thanks, Francois :-) and collaboration continues there. Check out the updates on the discussion here: http://friendfeed.com/danielm... - Claudia Koltzenburg

interesting q&a session with Ivar Giaever and Alan Heeger at St. Petersburg Medical University, was impressed by the large variety of questions posed by the students, in both Russian and English

September 22 - Comment - Like - Share

'stem cell' 1909 milestone article by A.A. Maximow #openaccess in German, English and Russian available here: http://www.ctt-journal.com/content...

September 21 - Comment - Like - Share

Mike Chelen and Jim Till liked this

See Maximow's 1909 milestone article open access here, in German, English and Russian Der Lymphozyt als gemeinsame Stammzelle der verschiedenen Blutelemente in der embryonalen Entwicklung und im postfetalen Leben der Säugetiere Demonstrationsvortrag, gehalten in der außerordentlichen Sitzung der Berliner Hämatologischen Gesellschaft am 1. Juni 1909 Von Prof. Dr. A. Maximow Originally published in: Folia Haematologica 8.1909, 125-134. Cellular Therapy and Transplantation (CTT), Vol. 1, No. 3, 2009 doi: 10.3205/ctt-2008-en-000040.01 http://www.ctt-journal.com/1-3-de-... The lymphocyte as a stem cell, common to different blood elements in embryonic development and during the post-fetal life of mammals Lecture with a demonstration, held at a special meeting of the Berlin Hematological Society on 1 June 1909 By Alexander A. Maximow Cellular Therapy and Transplantation (CTT), Vol. 1, No. 3, 2009 doi: 10.3205/ctt-2009-en-000032.01... more... - Claudia Koltzenburg

see also here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... and here http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki... - Claudia Koltzenburg

Fwd: citability / Citable Documents Specification - http://citability.pbworks.com/Citable... (via http://friendfeed.com/mrgunn...)

September 20 - Comment - Like - Share

Mike Chelen liked this

thanks, Mr. Gunn and yupp, this is a useful def of the technical side of it, however: many files do not get cited for reasons/excuses like the following: - if the citation style lets me - if my peers do it (cite anything at all from this resource, e.g. this specific journal - is an article from this journal 'citable'...?) - if the content is interesting? - this content having been put on the web after peer review? - a citiation export feature being available? - your reference managing tool accepting all file formats? - the file having a doi? - the file being itself part of a journal article or its supplement? - it being open access? feel free to add more, e.g. here: http://network.nature.com/groups... - Claudia Koltzenburg

Thanks, Mr Gunn and Claudia,too :-) - Slavomira Vladimirova

пожалуиста, Славомира, which of these excuses have you heard most? my original topic was on citing multimedia, does anyone have any additions, maybe, re this type of resource, too? - Claudia Koltzenburg

modeling a citation as a resource http://friendfeed.com/cameron...

September 19 - Comment - Like - Share

Mike Chelen and Mr. Gunn liked this

Fwd: "Open Access, PLoS article level metrics part of syllabus for PhD course at Uni Hyderabad" by Dr Niyaz Ahmed. http://niyazahmed.blogspot.com/2009... (via http://friendfeed.com/mcdawg...)

September 20 - Comment - Like - Share

Mike Chelen, Daniel Mietchen, Björn Brembs and 2 other people liked this

query: "publish fair trade" - what would this be from your point of view?

September 16 - Comment - Like - Share

Mr. Gunn, Bora Zivkovic, Daniel Mietchen and Mickey Schafer liked this

in case taking away an article's copyright from authors is considered unfair (and signing copyright away without thinking considered ... :-) - what - also going beyond copyright/copyleft issues - would "fair trade in publishing" mean for you? - Claudia Koltzenburg

3 more comments

This is an interesting question -- I listened to a NPR interview yesterday with the Google book folks and various callers. One of the most opposed was an author who didn't like the idea of "her" copyright being traded away without her knowing (or something like that)...but what really struck me was that she didn't actually hold copyright of ANY of her material -- it all belonged to... more... - Mickey Schafer

liked that: "a customizable network of options" - well, I must admit I put my query a bit too concisely, maybe, I meant to address authors who are already being paid for what they publish, namely academic researchers whose publishing activities are part of what they are being paid for, and this is an academic lifestyle that is possible true mostly in Western countries, I guess. Although... more... - Claudia Koltzenburg

I would not want to sign away my copyright (or left, or any other direction) again -- I just didn't get it the first time around. What I want as a producer of stuff is control over how that stuff is transferred to users -- to be able to offer things for free or pay or some hybrid thereof without having those options mandated by an outside party. I don't know that everyone would want... more... - Mickey Schafer

And I apologize for the acronym! really, I do. I never know when I should link or leave well enough alone;-). - Mickey Schafer

"skeptical of citing" <-> non-skeptical about non-attribution?

September 17 - Comment - Like - Share

Mike Chelen liked this

this links to Mickey Schafer's comment in http://ff.im/8bM8z: made me wonder: in which cases do we worry about non-attribution rather than being skeptical of citing? - Claudia Koltzenburg

cheers from Riga, on to Petersburg tonight http://www.ebmt.org/2relate...

September 16 - Comment - Like - Share

Interactive Medical Cases at NEJM http://scienceroll.com/2009... (thanks @Berci)

September 10 - Comment - Like - Share

Ciencia 2.0: Redes sociales y aplicaciones en línea para académicos http://www.hipertext.net/web... (thanks to Alejandro Tortolini)

September 10 - Comment - Like - Share

Fw: "what is a citation and what does it _do_" http://friendfeed.com/cameron...

September 9 - Comment - Like - Share

peer review in 2 phases, OA journal ACP(D): http://www.atmospheric-chemist...

September 8 - Comment - Like - Share

anyone stops reading or watching? http://network.nature.com/groups...

September 7 - Comment - Like - Share

Cameron Neylon liked this

if my peers do it…(?) http://network.nature.com/groups...

September 2 - Comment - Like - Share

Daniel Mietchen, Bora Zivkovic, Chris Leonard and 2 other people liked this

Good questions and interesting answers on citation of things that might be ephemeral by their nature and not just by being on the web (e.g. how do you cite a particular configuration or trajectory in a 3d simulation of a molecule...actually you probably cite a PyMol script...but you get the idea) - Cameron Neylon

15 more comments

in your turning 3D digital object, Cameron, let's imagine there's some change or development you want to point to specifically, how do you do this? if the starting second is unequivocal, do you say you are referring to second xy in contrast to second yx? - Claudia Koltzenburg

If you were using PyMol you would be able to set up the exact motion and scene you want to display. So in a sense you would be citing the structure, but through the prism of a specific display tool running a specific set of instructions. In principle if the visualisation was a web service that took a path as a set of parameters then a citation might read... more... - Cameron Neylon

sounds really interesting, Cameron, also in view of possibly being more independent of specific (proprietary?) display tools, maybe? - Claudia Koltzenburg

It would be tough to make it completely independent but given (at least for 3d movies) an open 3d scene standard and a web based open visualisation engine it could be done. Interestingly I was involved in a discussion here at STFC about trying to build a 3d description standard but it was decided that it wasn't worth the effort to put together an application because no-one would fund such a thing... - Cameron Neylon

re building a 3d description standard, thanks - has this been tried/done elsewhere on the globe? (how long ago is this discussion at STFC?) - any specific reasons why your expert colleagues think no one would fund such a thing? let us ask: in whose interest would such a standard be created? everyone with sufficiently reliable web access, technology - and bandwidth - now or in the future who is doing - and citing - research, maybe. - Claudia Koltzenburg

Google are doing something called O3D (Open 3D) which may solve part of the problem (http://code.google.com/apis...) although porting a large quantity of legacy molecular rendering sounds like hard work to me. Research funders won't touch this stuff because it is basically incremental. It isn't new functionality it is making existing functionality more available. But I agree the applicability is very wide. I need to think more about the idea of functional citations as well - Cameron Neylon

it seems to me that looking into the IPTC standards (used by image archives) might be a track to follow. While this is not used for multimedia (as far as I know), there still seems to be a knowledge gap between the established scientific journals and other fields of business in this respect. At least, looking around in hematology/oncology, we found no journal which uses IPTC standards... more... - Claudia Koltzenburg

i think there are a lot of different points involved in whether/how/if to cite things other than articles. There's if it is archived so it will be preserved. If it has a DOI, handle, purl, or some other sort of unique identifier so that you can reliably point to it (Claudia - I think your comment on my blog points to this). As in above, there's the bit of referring to a point in a video... more... - Christina Pikas

Incidentally, figures in PLoS journals have their own DOI which is a help. Christina, what's your feeling on the idea of functional citations I referred to? A date stamped version of a dynamic document would be a simple example of such a thing but is there a fundamental objection to a /process/ being part of a citation? i.e. take object x and do this set of things to it to see what I saw... - Cameron Neylon

Cameron, yes, figures in PLoS have their doi, - and what can you find out about the image and its specific meaning after you have downloaded it? does the image viewing tool you use give you any more information about its original scientific context than this cryptic doi? if yes, great: tell me which tool are you using - and which tool do you use for moving non-text objects? Actually, I... more... - Claudia Koltzenburg

Christina, re annotated pictures in articles, could you point me to an example, please? what kind of annotation is it and would it be useful for animated files (or whatever we choose to call them), too? - Claudia Koltzenburg

Claudia, two answers to your first question: What do you get from the doi? Well the same as you get from the doi for a paper. Very little until you follow the link through to the object of interest, then you usually have to evaluate the context manually. ...after you have downloaded it? Well in an ideal world you wouldn't download you would incorporate by reference, that is you wouldn't... more... - Cameron Neylon

@Cameron - intrigued with the idea of process related citations. Pointing to a specific version however they're tracked (date time stamp) should be the rule. I guess the question is: how much is in the citing context and how much is in the citation? I'm sure I've seen papers thay say ... as Smith says in his introduction... There have also been efforts since maybe the '60s to find a way... more... - Christina Pikas

good points made, very interesting, thanks :-) @Cameron, I think that in everyday lives and practices in global and varied contexts we might consider that scientific images, too, start traveling on their own. Especially important in medicine that these have glued to them the relevant metadata... @Christina, are we sure there really is no concept or usage in between these two? - Claudia Koltzenburg

Claudia, yes I think I have only just really figured out exactly what was motivating your original question. My gut feeling is that given the underlying file types it will be impossible to do this perfectly from a technical perspective. Yes you can embed stuff as watermarks or put it in the metadata of the image file itself but it is easy to lose either through mistake or malice.... more... - Cameron Neylon

hm, my original question is the one of motivation and habits: do we as researchers really give credit to all the sources that are relevant to the outcome we publish? or are some resources more equal than others ;-)? - Claudia Koltzenburg

Citing (multi)media in scholary communication http://network.nature.com/groups...

August 29 - Comment - Like - Share

Jan Schmirmund, Mr. Gunn and Bora Zivkovic liked this