Yes, and that's the point of treadmill mode.
- Ethan Gahng
I wish I could put the boxes in some sort of order. It's all a bit random atm. Also the refresh rate is too high. And I would like to be more specific in the tags, with excludes too.
- Kol Tregaskes
OK, Ethan. That's more than enough for me. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Peter, yeah it's all very pretty and a different way to look at things but the results are random and it's a little impractical. :-) If you are after new feeds or random news then use Lazyfeed. If you already have all your favourite feeds then use Google Reader.
- Kol Tregaskes
It doesn't seem to work that well though... In any case Lazyfeed is the perfect distraction to sit on my secondary monitor and look cool.
- Jan Ole Peek
Jan Ole, could you tell me which part doesn't work well, so that we can fix it? Would appreciate it!
- Ethan Gahng
"I almost laughed when I came to this conclusion and then I became really excited. Finally! Something very interesting happened , though I’m sure I’m not the first to have encountered it. I wanted to find out who the author of the blog Prevential is. So I headed to twitter search and proceeded to type do a search on one of his articles to see who tweeted it. Eventually, I hoped it would lead me to his twitter handle."
- Kol Tregaskes
from Bookmarklet
"FFSendImage provides you to send images/pictures by typing their URL. You don't need to download pictures to your computer and pass to the Friendfeed."
- Kol Tregaskes
from Bookmarklet
My (at the time 14-year-old) son argued porn and censorship with a FCC Commissioner and people are up in arms that the President is talking with their kids? This country is just so idiotic sometimes. I guess they forgot what the last President was doing on 9/11. That is right, talking with school kids. Sigh.
It amazes at all of the lows people do to bring the President down. It's rather pathetic.
- Minu Nianda
Heaven forbid anyone just step back and thinks people could be up to a couple good things, good grief.
- Chris
Sadly, I think that (general) America has forgotten that every society before us has crumbled, be it from war, poverty, starvation, political dispute every society has fallen. It's just a ticker now as to when we follow suit.
- Adam
Please. I have no problem with our President talking to our kids. As long as I'm in the room as well in order to call his BS. No matter who the President is at the time.
- Chris Kalaboukis
completely different - bush was reading to students - not pitching his agenda. read the paper the dept of education sent to the schools. and you liberals forget the last time a president spoke to school kids was in 91 when Bush Sr talked about staying off of drugs - and you liberals screamed and yelled that it was inappropriate. now its ok. i love the liberal hypocrisy.
- Tony Kanzia
Chris: you sir are an idiot. You can do that at home.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Typical liberal - if you don't agree with them, then you're an idiot. What a shocking response.
- Tony Kanzia
I took my son to see a Whitehouse and President I despised.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Chris, you think teachers are any less fallible? Do you accompany your children to school and sit with them throughout the day to call BS on things a teacher might say as well?
- Andru Edwards
This is all so ridiculous. If you don't agree with what he's saying, teach them to be proud of that opportunity, teach them to listen to their President, and then talk to them about the things you don't agree with when they get home. Don't conservatives believe in family values any more?
- Jesse Stay
Tony: I live this stuff. Have you taken your son to see a President you didn't like? I have.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Chris & Tony, thanks for being on hand to demonstrate the exact kind of intolerance that Robert is talking about.
- Jeff Harbert
what i think got everyone up in arms was the curriuculm that went along w/ the president's speech. while this has since been taken down, people feel they are being told from the government what to teach their kids
- Jonathan Jesse
E Pluribus Unum - "Out of one, many". Once the President is chosen, we all have to unite. We don't have to agree, but he is still the representative of this nation and we should respect, and be proud of that.
- Jesse Stay
Tony how is Obama pitching his agenda to kids when he's simply telling them to stay in school? Give me a break.
- Minu Nianda
or that bush sr. talked with school children as did reagan. i suppose it's only ok if repubs do it (shocker).
- Kayce Maisel
I find it even more fantastic that parents don't think their kids can think for themselves.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Teaching our kids not to respect the President takes away that unity. If we don't agree, we should instead be sharing what we don't agree with, not removing the opportunity altogether. This is ridiculous! (note that I was saying the same thing to things the liberals were doing to Bush as well)
- Jesse Stay
Jesse Stay- You hit the "nail on the head" so beautifully!
- earl wallace
Complete idiots are people who think that their kids hearing a few words from ANYBODY are going to hold sway over the impact of their parents, their environment and ability to think freely.
- suecosby
@tony i agree with you on most of the comment. the problem with the speech i had was the accompaning lessons, since removed from the d ept of educations website
- Jonathan Jesse
You know, I just read the speech, and I don't see ANY political agenda in it, much less a liberal one. "And that's what I want to focus on today: the responsibility each of you has for your education. I want to start with the responsibility you have to yourself." Sounds pretty conservative to me. Read it here: http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009...
- John Craft
For those on this thread who are freakin' paranoid about Obama pushing a political agenda on little children, here are his prepared remarks. http://www.whitehouse.gov/MediaRe... You can now STFU about it. You're welcome. :)
- Helen Sventitsky
Jonathan: the "offending" lesson was what could you do to help the President.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
@jesse i don't think anyone has said anything about teaching their children to disrespect the president, just that they don't agree w/ what he says
- Jonathan Jesse
Let's all join hands and recite the pledge of allegiance. Come on. I know you want to.
- Sean Montgomery
from iPhone
Jonathan: I disagreed greatly with what Bush did but I still took my son to see him and meet with his Deputy Press Secretary.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Jonathan I see people flat out telling their kids they can't listen to the President. That sounds like disrespect to me.
- Jesse Stay
Maybe school SHOULD be about learning where other people are coming from.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
It is up to parents after school to teach them their own values.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
In Arizona, kids have to get permission slips to listen to the President. That's disrespectful to me.
- Jesse Stay
Jesse: it is worse than disrespectful. Where were theywhen Bush spoke to kids?
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Jesse: yeah. Gotta have a permission slip to learn.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Let's see, how does it go? I pledge allegience to Robert Scoble...wait that's not it.
- Sean Montgomery
Robert, you're absolutely right... but I can't help but wonder where the promises were from this administration on working across the aisle and having full transparency. I think this administration has provided the fanatical opposition with all the ammunition it needed to take situations like this and blow them up. Once again, I agree that all children should be able to hear the President speak without opposition. I just think this administration is blowing the PR front.
- Douglas Karr
Robert I am giving you a fist bump for this man. Well said!!!!!!!!
- Joe
@robert i think the heart of the problem is what you stated "Parents should teach values" and i don't think that is happening whether political, religious or moral and too many people are relying on the school system to do so.
- Jonathan Jesse
Helen Sventitsky- I just read Obama's speech and I don't think I could have put it any better' I do not detect any undercurrents or subliminal manipulation. I heard the same advice when I graduated from high school.
- earl wallace
"too many people are relying on the school system to do so." - and this is President Obama's fault how? Are you saying that, since the parents aren't doing their job of teaching values, no one should be allowed to talk to their kid about values?
- John Craft
Robert - I'm a conservative but agree with your original point. POTUS should be able to speak to students. You have to acknowledge that if W. had tried to do the same thing (national satellite address) to students, liberals would've been just as outraged as many conservatives are now.
- Paul Goldsmith
Let's face it - there's a significant portion of this country's population that, if Obama gave a speech about puppies being cute, would launch into an apoplectic rage randomly spewing the words 'liberal' and 'socialist.
- John Craft
Paul: you are wrong. Bush spoke to students and I don't remember anyone so angry.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Really? Bush gave a national address to school kids? I honestly did not know that.
- Paul Goldsmith
@robert, Bush 41 spoke to students in '91 and there was opposition from the Dems.
- Kurt Starnes
Kurt: I will take your word on that. That is stupid too.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
This is an amazing opportunity. Until now it simply wasn't possible for a single President to speak to an *entire* nation of school kids. Until now it was only possible to do it in person on a school-by-school basis. When I was growing up it was an extreme privilege to have the President visit your school. We should be embracing that! I don't care if you agree with Politics or not.
- Jesse Stay
Kurt: will we have a better country where kids are encouraged to learn and think critically or are they going to learn that politics is like sports?
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
There was opposition from Dems in '91, but there was no ranting and raving that Bush Sr was going to indoctrinate school kids.
- Rene Wirtz
@Robert Watched a great documentary on text books and our kids are NOT encouraged to learn and think critically. They are misguided. That's one of the key downfalls with our education system... which is controlled by people trying to indoctrinate their own beliefs and avoid criticism from any extremes.
- Douglas Karr
It's funny I've been so inured by the idiocy, venom & deception coming from the White House for the past 8 years I have a hard time even grokking there are people who don't view the new guy as a massive breath of transparent, humanistic fresh air. And also that a US president talking to our kids could be a bad thing. Altho the guys in this thread who disagree may not be idiots, generously I would at least characterize them as "Fox-addled".
- Thom Kennon
@Robert - I'm with you on those thoughts re kids learning to think critically. I may not agree with Obama on many things, but I would encourage my Daughter (almost 11 y.o.) to listen to any of his speeches. I do think there is some hypocrisy on this school speech issue, though. FWIW.
- Kurt Starnes
Just for the record, I think it's awesome that the President has the opportunity for a national address to students. Great opportunity for the President and children alike.
- Douglas Karr
1991: "The Department of Education should not be producing paid political advertising for the president, it should be helping us to produce smarter students," the New York Times quoted House Majority Leader Richard A. Gephardt (D-Mo.). "And the president should be doing more about education than saying, 'Lights, camera, action.'" Decent article on the history of these school speeches here: http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs...
- Kurt Starnes
@Thom transparent? Like the close-door, one-sided bills that have been rammed through? Stop watching Fox OR MSNBC. Start reading http://factcheck.org/
- Douglas Karr
BTW, I wasn't following the Bush 41 school speech in '91, but would think the opposition to Obama is very likely much more heated than it was for Bush 41.
- Kurt Starnes
Kurt: OK. So where will we be in eight years? Will your guy speak to school kids?
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
@Robert - I don't have a guy or a party that represents me (See Jesse's sentiments). :-\ In an ideal world, Presidents would speak to kids apolitically and all parents would support such speeches. And I would ride off into the rainbow on my white unicorn.
- Kurt Starnes
@Kurt @Robert Everyone should have the right to speak and be heard... what are we teaching our children through censorship of our very own President? Regardless of whether or not his speech is political, it should not be fought. He is OUR President and OUR childrens' President. PS: Robert... don't you mean in 3 1/2 years? ;)
- Douglas Karr
I just had to laugh at the person who said Obama was transparent. Wow. Don't read much do you? Obama just made sure 8 months of Presidential White House visits will remain secret. How about those meetings with drug companies, huh?
- Spencer
@Douglas - I generally agree with you. But, just as Obama has the right to give the speech, folks have the right not to listen, even though I think all should listen. Some conservatives seem to have missed the point that neither schools nor the WH require *mandatory* viewing! Folks still have a choice and this, to me, makes all of the protestations seem so silly.
- Kurt Starnes
@Kurt we agree... and I also don't fall for the rainbows and unicorns.
- Douglas Karr
In fairness, I think the ONLY real objections were over the slip that the president wanted children to tell him how they were going to help him. Most people don't like the idea of indoctrinating children. They didn't want their child coming home to harass them about why healthcare reform wouldn't pass, etc. This might be a paranoid nutter fear, but for all the political manipulation many parents are used to via their children. My children are constantly bringing home political notes about taxes, funding.
- Jason Nunnelley
This whole debate is sorta silly. If you don't want your children indoctrinated, then listen what the man has to say then give them your opinion -- teach them the value of free speech which is to let all ideas out into the world and let the good ones stand. Taking your kid to the White House to se a President you hate? Makes perfect sense to me.
- Dean Rodgers
Wait a second don't we spend years indoctrinating our kids on everything from how to eat properly to what sports team to follow? I guess it's just other people's indoctrination we don't want them exposed to? ;)
- Eoghann Irving
Eoghann, // I AM NOT COMPARING THE PRESIDENT TO THE KKK // But, how would you feel about your child attending a meeting where they taught that certain races were immoral, corrupt or otherwise less worthy. Sure, you could just explain that the bigot they listened to was wrong. But, children are impressionable. That's exactly why we work to brainwash... ahem, excuse me, train them young about things like pollution, recycling, civic responsibilities, etc. It's why schools have them to recite the pledge.
- Jason Nunnelley
For the record, I'm looking forward to my children listening to the president. It will make for good dinner conversation.
- Jason Nunnelley
My point is that sending someone to school and then complaining because they might be "indoctrinated" is a ludicrous position. Of course they will be indoctrinated. That's why we're sending them there! The objections to Obama's speech that I have seen are entirely party political and not motivated by any real concern for social or moral damage.
- Eoghann Irving
Jason, FWIW I did attend a meeting that told me exactly that when I was about 11 at a local baptist church. There was a book and tape burning afterward. My mother was mortified when she came to pick me and my sister (9) up. Neither my sister nor I was 'impressionable' enough to take what we were told at face value, and we had a very lengthy conversation with my mom about what we thought...
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- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
@Jason: you hit on something crucial. There's a lot of white folk (especially here in the South) that do not want the president to talk to school kids, because it may just empower black kids.
- Rene Wirtz
Eoghann Irving, well sorry. I reserve the right to choose what indoctrination I subject my children to and I don't much care whether others think I'm backward or ignorant for reserving that right as a parent. I consider one's refusal to exercise that right cowardly. Even allowing my child to attend public school, and attend the Obama presentation is a decision that is mine to make. I won't whine or complain. I'll take physical action to stop people from doing anything to my child I don't like.
- Jason Nunnelley
Tina, I can't defend the position taken by a minority of paranoid parents that their children shouldn't be exposed to the president's presentation. But, I do defend their right to be notified and that decision belongs to the parent. I think withholding your child's attendance is a poor decision. But, I think the suggestion that parents don't have the right to direct their children's education and experiences in childhood is unacceptable in a "free" society. I determine who trains my child, nobody else.
- Jason Nunnelley
Jason Nunelley, I'm curious where you think I said that you didn't have the right to raise your children any way you see fit. Or that it was ignorant or backward to reserve that right. I don't think I made either statement. My point remains that this isn't about any real concern for the welfare of the children. It's a politically motivated stunt.
- Eoghann Irving
Eoghann Irving, you said "sending someone to school and then complaining because they might be 'indoctrinated' is a ludicrous position." That statement indicated to me that you think taking action to limit said indoctrination is likewise ludicrous. The rest of my statement wasn't aimed at you personally or your comments but more the generic conversation. There are lots of people openly calling concerned parents racist and stupid for even suggesting that the curriculum shouldn't be political.
- Jason Nunnelley
What I'm trying (and perhaps failing) to argue is for people to give the real reason they are pulling their children from school. It's not because they're "being indoctrinated" which is a vague phrase that has negative connotations which makes it hard to argue against. It's because of something specific. And the reason they're not giving a clear reason is that it isn't really about the...
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- Eoghann Irving
Rene Wirtz, this is a major disconnect between reality and perception. People who don't like Obama's tactics aren't all racists. They're not fearful that black children will see his example and obtain an education, get a better job, etc. They're fearful that Obama's policies will usher in big Orwellian government. I'm hopeful that Obama will inspire black students. But, I don't want his legislation to pass. I'm also southern, but that doesn't mean I'm a bigot.
- Jason Nunnelley
jason totally onboard with your statement, though i know it will get me some less than lovely responses. i definitely do not want Obama's policies to to become embedded because I think they are the wrong ones, not because I want to see him personally fail. I think the best chance for the country to succeed is if his policies sputter
- Zachary Adam Cohen
Eoghann Irving, I agree with you. The Republican "protect the children" spin is disgusting. But, I disagree with you on this idea that none of the parents are sincere. A significant number of parents don't like having their children used as pawns. I tire of it in my redneck, backwoods southern town (so you can all assume it's because I'm a racist :). My local school pulls this crap...
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- Jason Nunnelley
Though I consider the reaction these parents have to be bad. I respect a parent's right to opt out of a political stunt. Do I consider the firestorm the Republicans are fanning a political stunt? Of course. But, I don't automatically assume the parents are insincere, or racists. My kids are enjoying logical discussions on why some of the president's desires are noble and some are less so.
- Jason Nunnelley
@Jason: I wasn't calling you a bigot, far from it. But I can see and hear from my relatives there is a deep seeded mistrust. And it is doubly so, because Obama is black and because he is a "socialist", two things that are not very popular amongst the mostly Republican voter base. I do want him to go a progressive course, but to call Obama's political course socialist is laughable at best.
- Rene Wirtz
Rene Wirtz, I knew you weren't calling me a bigot. It's the southern comment I'm chastising. Since we're both in the south, I think we should be careful not to further feed this idea that southern people are bigots. It's just not true, at least no more so that Californians or New Yorkers. If J.C. Watts had run and won the presidency, these same relatives would love him. It's not a fear...
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- Jason Nunnelley
I think we need a "back to school" czar.
- Spencer
I straight up asked my daughter what she wanted to do and her response was "I'd rather do something else". But how about this - I respect the president's right as president to address children in the public school system, why can't MY right to not have my 7 year old daughter listen to it regardless of message be respected?
- Michael Koby
@Scott - You think they're nutty, they think you're nutty. Ain't America grand? :-)
- Kurt Starnes
Isn't it interesting how the "left-leaning" commenters cometely ignore the fact that it's the Dept. of Education lesson plan that people were upset about.
- Robert Hafer
from iPhone
Robert: I didn't ignore that and I'm left-leaning.
- Robert Scoble
Scott, in fairness I think you know they changed it due to public feedback.
- Jason Nunnelley
It might be more worthwhile to have Al Franken teach them how to draw a map of the United States.
- SuezanneC Baskerville
does anybody think that, independent of what obama is going to talk about, it's not the president's job to address the nation's kids and this is not appropriate for thim to do in a free country? http://masstrovato.tumblr.com/post...
- masstrovato
How do you get from people being upset with a lesson that insructs children to write an essay on how they can help spread the President's message to them being racist?
- Robert Hafer
from iPhone
Scott, (answering q1) Bill Ayers, though people may argue Obama didn't actually associate with him. Jeremiah Wright, though people will argue Obama attended church for twenty years and didn't fully understand the lessons Mr. Wright preached. Obama's nominee for Green Czar, Van Jones, though I realize people will claim that nominating someone to a cabinet position doesn't mean they agree politically.
- Jason Nunnelley
Scott, I sincerely appreciated Mr. Wright's willingness to be honest about his message. While Obama tried to pretend he didn't understand that message, or that the preacher didn't mean what he said, Mr. Wright had the courage to say that Obama had no choice but to disassociate himself from that message but that he stood by his statements. I don't like Mr. Wright's message, but respect that he has the guts to say it and stand by it.
- Jason Nunnelley
Scott (answering Q2) Originally, the president intended to ask students to participate in an exercise to describe how they would help the president. I view this as relatively innocent, but some do not. That has been changed in reaction to public response. Now, though I find it innocent, I don't like it. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...
- Jason Nunnelley
Scott, I don't have a problem with his present version. But, pretending people are reacting to the version out now and ignoring the history that brought this controversy to most people's attention ignores the true motivations. I'm just suggesting you should consider the reality that your link isn't the source of the controversy.
- Jason Nunnelley
I think kids in all 57 states should have the opportunity to hear him speak if their parents don't object.
- motownmutt
I had forgotten what Bush was doing that day. That is a great point. If I remember correctly, wasn't the book he was reading to the kids upside down? Or is that an urban myth?
- Mike Kirkeberg
Agreed. Robert. Kids today are more evironmentally concious, know whats right and wrong and better perspectives of life, bring on anypne who wants to talk to them, there is no guarantee that they will listen as they are independent :)
- Shashi Bellamkonda
The reaction to Obama's original plan is not in a vacuum. The movement to recruit children and young adults into new nationalist organizations concerns some people. It's not so much right-ring Republican types, but more the anti-government types. Pretending this is a flame alone in a desert isn't intellectually honest. http://www.youtube.com/watch...http://www.youtube.com/watch... << The rhetoric that spikes the concern.
- Jason Nunnelley
Your son sounds like a genius. You sound like a liberal elitist. Sometimes liberals are so annoying. Sigh.
- practicehacker
Thanks for the links, Jason. I knew some Norwegians who I believe served one year mandatory military service. I thought it served them well.
- motownmutt
This administration is serious about engaging young people in quasi-military service. Its cabinet members talked about it openly during the campaign. You can pretend that didn't have an emotional impact, but that's just hiding your eyes to reality. That rhetoric set the stage for the sensitivity you see today over something as innocent as the president encouraging students, even to...
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- Jason Nunnelley
the President is not just talking 2 kids, he wanna the kids to be tech wizards I hear? I wouldn't mind Prez chatting with kids but talk 2 what they wanna @ least
- polou/indigo_bow
polou/indigo_bow, you might want to actually read the speech before assuming anything.
- Jeff P. Henderson
We should print up threads like this and share them with our kids. Let em see how people with opinions and passions discuss stuff. Good practice for filtering out Presidents --- and teachers, and parents, and professors and cops and newscasters and Jon Stewart and Rush and the deli guy and ...
- Thom Kennon
Jason Nunnelley, Seems that just further backs up my argument that this is a politically motivated and cultivated hysteria. Doesn't surprise me that it's been tried before.
- Eoghann Irving
Eoghann Irving, I live in a bedroom community in rural Alabama. We're a 70% Republican community. I've not heard a single parent complain about the presentation - not one. The only thing I've heard is reports that the original message contained a curious question from the president to the students, and the president (being much better a man than his political activist supporters) removed it to avoid the conflict. There is no [widespread] fear about Obama's presentation to students.
- Jason Nunnelley
Eoghann Irving, this idea that there's widespread panic over the president addressing students is akin to Sarah Palin claiming David Letterman joked about someone raping her daughter. It's a stunt. But, that's different from the hand full of people that have legitimate concerns about this administration's "statist" tendencies. And, I continue to encourage people to avoid dismissing...
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- Jason Nunnelley
citing Bush talking to school kids on 9/11 is not the best evidence that it's a good idea. Sigh
- Michael Markman
Wow, @scobleizer fail on this one! http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion... Democrats wigged out so bad, they even had an investigation of Bush's speech to a single classroom! I still think you're right - it's idiotic to get all up in arms. But looks like (as usual) both sides are just as guilty.
- Douglas Karr
It's Pathetic* The Repubes + Brainwashed Flock have shown Time + Time again that it's Their Way or the Highway - they don't even want People to THINK!! Scary + Frightening Poop*
- Billy Warhol
My childrens' school didn't run the speech today. I am so embarrassed. I completely missed this one. Since I don't listen to hate radio or watch the news, I thought I was up to speed based on the more cerebral conversations on this topic. I thought the whole controversy was already squashed when the president dropped the assignment "what can you do to help me," which I thought was...
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- Jason Nunnelley
I'm back to my original reaction to the vitriol on both sides of this conversation. Politics is for suckers.
- Jason Nunnelley
When I first heard that people were up in arms about the President speaking to school children... I thought maybe I had fallen into prolonged sleep and was not aware that Hitler was at the head of state again. Plz people. Can we get to what the REAL issue is at hand... and I don't like to play that card ... but sometime it's just too obvious when THE CARD is being played from the other side.
- Jim Turner
What is at stake here is not the fact that the President wanted to speak to the kids--that is good. The issue was that it was framed as how we can help the President (hint, hint--his agenda)--and that my liberal friends is what the commotion is about. Obama is about the most disingenuous President I have seen in all my years of closely watching politics. He had the audacity to say that...
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- Sean O'Reilly
yeah seriously. lets move on. mine got hit as well. its back up.
- Sameer
i dunno...you might want to have another think about that... :)
- Simon Hicks
you should hire someone to do the occasional WP updates :-)
- Holger Eilhard
I am about to move to squarespace anyway
- Shawn Hickman
I would anticipate that an update to WordPress in the near future will have the ability to push automatic updates. Its nearly there now.
- Doug McCaughan
in the social economy, its' not money or health that suffers. This one comes out of your reputation bank account. No worries, you are rich there
- Warren Whitlock
Ah well....the perils of making your mistakes in public instead of in quiet peaceful anonymity and obscurity like the rest of us..lol :-)
- Julia Ault
I realize you are a lightening rod for these types of discussions Robert. but I have had many discussions with web designers/developers who are about fed up with the amount of updating and securing involved w/ self-hosted WordPress blogs. some have had similar experiences as you w/ regards to being hacked.
- jbrotherlove
Opportunities like this excite all the "you should"ers. It's all good until it happens to them – and if they're interesting enough, it surely will.
- Jason Hargrove
Beginning to see cooler heads today on this issue. Yesterday you would think everyone was on crazy pills.
- David Bisset
Doug: Problem with the update system I've seen until now is that it requires to have an FTP account to the machine. (?) I try to stay away from that insecure thing as far as possible and only use SFTP via ssh...
- Holger Eilhard
There are worse things in life. Singing offkey and torturing billions as a result is one :D
- Sean Kearney
jbrotherlove: Maybe those designers/developers aren't up on the latest. Wordpress has a one-button update. How hard could that be? Haven't been forced to update Wordpress blogs in a while... plus there are ways to make your Wordpress site more secure, backup databases, etc. blah, blah, blah... :)
- David Bisset
Doug: Yep, we should! I've been wondering too why they're ignoring the fact that FTP is insecure! On the other hand I just did a quick search for this and found this post: http://devioustree.co.uk/2009... Or there should be an option to put the up-to-date version of WP into a given folder manually and have wordpress automatically update from there. Shouldn't be too complicated?
- Holger Eilhard
David Bisset, you're right. there is a one-button backup option. but it has not worked as well (or at all) for some users (it worked for me). as for all the ways to make WP more secure, that's great if you are tech savvy with 1-2 blogs. when you are an "average" user or have multiple clients using WP, it's not so attractive.
- jbrotherlove
There are ways to make Wordpress more secure (outside of keep it updated). I'm betting now that you'll be seeing it in newer Wordpress versions by default. As a Wordpress developer, it's also my responsibility to spread the word.
- David Bisset
jbrotherlove: Well, it's up to Automatic or someone then to figure out why it doesn't work for everybody then. I've had no problems with it, and you noted you didn't either. Users with issues could be using crappy plugins perhaps? Just a guess.
- David Bisset
Since time before time, asses will try and take what you've got. // "Massive ancient wall uncovered in Jerusalem" http://is.gd/2XE6K (CNN) ///// I wonder how many holes those people felt obliged to continually patch.
- Jason Hargrove
After trying many platforms like Joomla, b2Eveolution, and others, for blogging, CMS, and sites, Wordpress is still a Best Solution even during it's growing pains.
- jacky
In my line of work if I screw up, someone's life or property is in jeopardy. Sometimes I wish I had your job. :-)
- Captain Jack
certainly are...like forgetting anniversary present ;o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
lol at least you admit it unlike all the other people who get hit with security issues when they don't update their software then claim it's not my fault lol
- Rob Cairns
WordPress only uses FTP to update in order to have the proper user permissions. If you use suPHP on the server, it can update itself directly, not needing the FTP info.
- Otto
from iPhone
"Compacts the display of friendfeed entry titles. Inserts a show/hide link: "(+-)" to toggle full display of users and groups that the entry was posted to. Effectively, the number of commas you see indicate how many user/groups in the TO are being hidden. Project home: http://wittman.org/project..." - via http://ff.im/7Gu1y
- Kol Tregaskes
"Some of the world’s best photographs are taken at night. Although its not an easy task to take good quality pictures at night. But some artists do it very well. Here I have collected some of the best night photography shots from different sources taken by some best artists."
- Kol Tregaskes
from Bookmarklet
"As we’ve mentioned here before at Make Use Of, bookmarklets are easy to use additions to your web browsers that add functionality to websites or make it easier to perform tasks such as bookmarking to social sites or changing the way websites appear in the browser. Run with Javascript, these useful lightweight pieces of code can make your online life a lot easier. Backup your bookmarks – and bookmarklets – and use these bookmarklets across all platforms. All bookmarklets were tested on Firefox 3.5 and Safari 4."
- Kol Tregaskes
from Bookmarklet
I just disagree with the term "must-have"..."useful" is what I would choose...these bookmarklets are nice, but hardly necessities.
- brainno722 (Peter)
I agree and would add 'TwitThat, Diigolet, Press this, Share on Posterous,...' in fact all bookmarklet for all social platforms one has an account on.
- lelapin
my Share to friendfeed is my most used one
- johnpiercy
I use "ShareThis" from sharethis.com, but their website doesn't give a bookmarklet...I forgot where I found it. But it lets you share the web page across various platforms (twitter, digg, delicious, etc) I also use "clip to evernote"
- brainno722 (Peter)
from NoiseRiver
Thanks Peter for sharing sharethis. It may conveniently replace many if not all my other bookmarklets. [I googled 'sharethis.com bookmarklet' to actually find it].
- lelapin
from email
NP. I actually like Bookmarklet more than the actual addon (especially if it's not yet supported by the browser). Other ones I've used are: Diigolet, PrintWhatYouLike, Download PDF, Diggbar (all can be google'ed). In Firefox, I combine the bookmarklet with Xmarks, and they instantly become available through all my pcs (or any place with Internet via portable Firefox)
- brainno722 (Peter)
from NoiseRiver
i also suggest WebNotes, aardvark, pdfmenot, kwout screenshot, tineye, zemanta, pdfdownload.org
- Alessandro
Dear Somebody Awesome, Please build a Google Reader Shared Items directory similar to WeFollow. I'd like to find more like minded people to add to my sharing list. <3, Erica
Yes, I'm aware that thread and it is precisely *why* I want a directory. I love friendfeeders but the fact remains that I (and others) probably don't want to read everything everyone in that thread has to share. :)
- EricaJoy
from IM
He told me they messed up by not communicating better last week. The deal happened so fast that they didn't pay attention to everything.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
More smoke-blowing. I don't care of Paul swore on the graves of his ancestors. Actions speak louder than words. Some vague promise to a group of people I'm excluded from doesn't do much to assuage my unease.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Akiva, you're right, but it's not smoke.
- Louis Gray
Okay, Louis, true. I retract that first sentence. The rest of it, however, I'm sticking by.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Akiva: well I feel a lot better about things today.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Continue just as it is? Or with key changes?
- Karma Martell
I would expect them to post more on this topic soon - on their personal blogs.
- Louis Gray
If that's what Paul wants to promise us, he needs to release some kind of official statement, not send a message through Robert.
- Rochelle
I bet you as part of the contract, its in there not to shut this down
- Stephen Pickering
Rochelle: there are too many unknowns to make a definitive statement yet.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
keeping my hopes up. but i do remember working at a few radio stations that were bought, we'd get a memo saying 'the format is not going to change' about three weeks before we switched to spanish. i think there is just too much here for ff to vanish. keep the dream alive!
- michael sean wright
How can he when it`s lost all of its autonomy? Supplanted by Facebook, bought outright no?
- sofarsoShawn
It couldve been part of the deal not to let the site die
- Stephen Pickering
Robert, like you said, one can hope. However both of us know how corporates work and it takes one small decision from share holders to close down the service, no matter what.
- Nir Ben Yona
They want to get to Facebook and get those unknowns nailed down first.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Holden and Rochelle, etc., let's be patient. If you see the post I put up last night and add Robert's comments here, we should be feeling a lot better today than we did on Monday.
- Louis Gray
Robert, all right. Well, after my initial freak-out over this, I've gone into complete wait-and-see mode. More of these vague promises and 'coming soon' messages don't really do much for me. When someone say something definitive, then I'll be there to consume it. The rest of this just doesn't add up for much.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Thanks, Stephen. I thought it was important.
- Louis Gray
Akiva, exactly, waiting for official word.
- Kol Tregaskes
Nir: the way it was told to me contractually it can't be closed down anytime soon.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
I hope they don't change it so you have to have a Facebook account to use it. I have one, but share it with very few; I use Twitter and FF for everyone. I want to be able to use it the way I do now.
- RobinDotNet
Like any takeover/merger, some details just take time to work out. Hopefully FF can stay around in some form and help make FB better. We'll just have to wait and see. Thanks, Robert, for the info.
- Mark Edwards
I agree, we haven`t seen anything substantive in the way of contract etc but fingers crossed.
- sofarsoShawn
But doesn't mean it won't be shutdown at some point?
- Kol Tregaskes
And, Louis, I didn't see your post from last night but I'll read it as soon as I get back from the store.
- Akiva Moskovitz
was Pownce a bit like Friendfeed? I never used it
- Mark
The fact that the FF folks haven't yet said "This is how we want it, so this is how it's going to be" is just evidence that they don't have the final say on the matter. If it's subject to some additional authority/approval, nothing is certain at this point.
- Ken Sheppardson
Kol: it won't be shut down anytime soon. He was quite clear about that.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Kol, the truth is they work for Facebook now, and therefore, FriendFeed can/will change, and it may not change 100% how you and I want. It may be part of Facebook's site later, and it may not. But Facebook is changing from what we know of it now to something new where they overlap.
- Louis Gray
In other words that was in the contract. Makes sense, since they were hesitant anyway
- Stephen Pickering
Robert, OK but maybe at some point though.
- Kol Tregaskes
I sure would like it if FF continued indefinitely.
- Jason Nunnelley
Patience is a good thing. That said, if FriendFeed wasn't growing at a rate much higher than it has been, something would have to change. You don't bottle up such talent and experience and have it work on a product that was losing.
- Louis Gray
Good to hear. I am sure they will take time to decide what exactly to do with FF. How to integrate them together. What to do etc. FF the R&D for FB I think it could be
- Robert Anderson
Robert, true. All a bit vague still though.
- Kol Tregaskes
Scoble: encourage Facebook to keep FriendFeed as a premium brand. Let them tie it to Facebook data or whatever, but keep the system separate.
- Gary
Louis, right, this gives them legitimacy and exposure
- Stephen Pickering
Kol... if they wanted to grow they way they "deserved" to grow, this place would have changed underneath your feet to something you might hate. This is one way to put real capital and people behind the site as it is now.
- Louis Gray
So what? Do they continue try to grow friendfeed as an individual product? Or do they just leave it alive for those of us who actually use it?
- Sam Guzman
If this thing grows by leaps and bounds, FB is not going to close it
- Stephen Pickering
Mark: anytime a blogger says something is dead ALL that means is that it is less interesting than yesterday.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Over time, we will learn, Sam. It's a classical marketing/engineering decision. Do you build for the current user base, or the potential user base? With change. some were bound to leave anyway.
- Louis Gray
Louis, not arguing that at all. My point was about shutting it down or not. I'm at the wait-and-see stage, waiting for more news from FF.
- Kol Tregaskes
And any time I write a headline that says it's NOT dead... maybe I know what I'm talking about. :)
- Louis Gray
But this service grows more useful the more users there are
- Stephen Pickering
Something needs to happen. Twitter is useless now - maybe a new denial of service attack. I would love to see the Friendfeed technology spread to the mass user base that Facebook has.
- Frode Stenstrøm
Yeah, I understand. Maybe some of the extra publicity from the acquisition will lead to an increase in users...curious people signing up to see what it's all about.
- Sam Guzman
Well, at least he acknowledged they messed up.
- Rodfather
oh sweet, I just spent ages adding friendfeed people, setting up privacy and setting up FF to stream to my FB....now this might be a waste of time?
- Franz Sittampalam
from IM
Frode: that was what Paul told me too. He wants the tech here to be used by everyone.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Rod, FriendFeed has no PR or Marketing. Maybe if they did, this would have been handled differently. Some things come naturally, and others are hard. But I bet you will see a lot more soon.
- Louis Gray
I've heard the same from another founder, Robert.
- Anne Bouey
Franz, no official word, just wait for an announcement from FF.
- Kol Tregaskes
Companies come and companies go. They can go by closing their doors or by being acquired. Only time will tell whether FriendFeed has come and gone.
- Jeff Sayre
Google Reader is nothing like FF. No one really uses the social features.
- Sam Guzman
GR is trying, but its all wonky and totally un understandable
- Stephen Pickering
Oh. I just don't trust Facebook at all and can barely stand using it after being here.
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
Jannifer, I think we have to look beyond the caricatures of people like Zuckerberg, and recognize that he too may want the same things we do. Facebook is growing up and I bet FriendFeed and its team is a big part of that.
- Louis Gray
courtney: Paul talked about that too. He said once the team made the decision they knew it had to be closed overnight to prevent it from leaking.
- Robert Scoble
Louis I think its a perfect marriage, genius engineers + genius Marketers
- Stephen Pickering
Real real time would be awesome in Facebook. I really hope it comes soon.
- Sam Guzman
Well, he didn't quite say "prevent it from leaking" but he said "it's important to do it all at once." I knew what he meant, though, that it had to be done fast to keep things from getting crazy, like they do once decisions like this get taken into public sphere.
- Robert Scoble
I am sure paul is truthful in that he would like for it to go that way, but this is a M&A situation, and even if it is written into the agreement, there are a million ways around it. At the end of the day, shareholders make the rules in a majority vote. If ff isn't integrated in fb somehow, I fail to see how it benefits fb.
- Erik Boles
from iPhone
Kol: Paul was emphatic that Facebook is a far more interesting company at this time in both company's history.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Somehow this doesn't sound too convincing. If Friendfeed has been losing a LOT of regular users because of their deal with Facebook, they'd be concerned. Friendfeed is likely to get you to speak on their behalf, since you are their most popular user. Maybe Paul is trying to convince you, so that he can indirectly convince others too. That might save an early end to Friendfeed brought on by the rapid loss of users.
- K N Ajit Narayan
I totally agree with Paul, by the way. Facebook is a much more interesting company to join right now than Google is.
- Robert Scoble
Louis: yeah, Zuckerberg is a lot smarter and a lot more down to earth than most of the press gives him credit for. He's always been straight up with me. Much better than other companies have treated me.
- Robert Scoble
And that's even including getting kicked off of Facebook for 24 hours.
- Robert Scoble
@ Scott, LOL Facebook = Microsoft 2.0! I see your point, but it far surpasses Microsoft Live attempt at a social network.
- Nakeva Corothers
Erik: technologies that have great audiences don't get killed. If anything will kill it, it will be us. By leaving.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, cool. Well if they can ditch a lot of their annoying features, like this FB Lite might be, then I might be interested in moving over with all the FF features implemented but I just can't work with FB in it's currently state. I had another go this weekend and still didn't like it. But I'd be even happier if FF stayed here. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
this is gonna be an interesting story to follow for sure. For now I am just using friendfeed the way I have been and see what comes out down the road. life is about changes.
- (jeff)isageek
sofarsoShawn: I don't know what you're talking about regarding Mashable.
- Robert Scoble
Maybe I missed it earlier in this thread but why can't they just come out and say something directly to the community? Obviously a lot of people are concerned and anxious about it... Why do we have to hear second-hand? And why has it all been so vague? No news is not necessarily good news in cases like this.
- Fa La La La Lindsay
Robert, Leo called himself Leo Scoble today because he deleted his 5000 FB friends and moved them over to his fan page
- Stephen Pickering
jeff: yeah. Visiting Facebook is going to get more interesting. He also said that the first month at Facebook (which starts Monday) will be all about learning about Facebook's code. So, no new features will come quickly.
- Robert Scoble
Ok. I hope Facebook changes a LOT so it's more tolerable. Although I don't like it, I need to set up a good Facebook page for business so I can remain competitive.
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
I hope they do right by you. You brought them to the party. I hope that gets recognized somehow monetarily.
- Jim Posner
Saying that it might be shut down at some point doesn't tell us anything new, though; after all, any site might be shut down at some point due to going out of business etc.
- Tristan Seligmann
When anything comes out of this it was always going to be long term.
- Kol Tregaskes
Can i just add - Paul never said friendfeed was going to die in the first place... instead they said the complete opposite - "FriendFeed.com will continue to operate normally. We're still figuring out our longer-term plans for the product with the Facebook team."
- Chris Clayton
I'm not sure why everyone dislikes Facebook. What's wrong with it?
- Sam Guzman
sofarsoShawn, yes, Facebook had been talking to FriendFeed since 2007.
- Louis Gray
Lindsay, I bet the FriendFeed team has a very busy week and maybe you hear from them on all this soon.
- Louis Gray
Robert: "technologies that have great audiences don't get killed..." oh, come on, you know better than that! My dad worked at IBM so I've been seeing tech companies kill great stuff that their customers liked for most of my life!!!!
- Fred Davis
Jim, Scoble has gotten no money from FriendFeed (nor have I). Neither one of us expects to, as that would change the relationship.
- Louis Gray
He said FF would continue operating normally "for now". That was what freaked people out. But I'm glad to hear that Paul and company have plans to keep the service running for the foreseeable future. I wouldn't want to wake up one morning and find my favorite service was shut down.
- Jason Huebel
Fred, right, the Innovators Dilemma, but in this case its cost of running a website is halving every year
- Stephen Pickering
Louis: yes, but Paul told me that when I last was in the office they hadn't yet decided to go to Facebook. Everything happened in the past two weeks. I think you even walked in on one of their key decision points. He said they worked all weekend long on the agreement.
- Robert Scoble
Fred: nothing in life is guaranteed, yeah, you're right. But there's no business reason to turn this off anytime soon. If we all leave there will be.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: e.g., consumer company changes focus to biz or gets acquired... new company direction leads to consumer products getting killed despite popularity... that's just one of many ways that good tech gets killed all the time!!!
- Fred Davis
No disagreement on that at all, Robert. I know I walked in on something big, and that was my mistake for not calling ahead.
- Louis Gray
Seems their valuation stood on Roberts shoulders to some degree. At the least, a public thanks would have been nice.
- Jim Posner
Jason: i know, thats what got me freaked out too - i just thought i would add it in incase anyone missed it :) and because im a little bored! lol
- Chris Clayton
If FF were Twitter, we'd be screaming bloody blue murder about how they don't "get" user communication, etc., etc.
- Chris Baskind
Fred, can you give any examples? Any software I used to use that is no longer available was replaced with something better.
- RobinDotNet
No business reason that WE understand... 'cuz we don;t go to Facebook board meetings ;-) Facebook may have their own agenda... in fact, I assume they do...
- Fred Davis
Jim: I do this because I love it, not because I expect thanks or goodies.
- Robert Scoble
Why even bring this up if they can't talk about it? Nothing has changed just more innuendo and smoke and mirrors and a lot of 'what ifs'. Wake me when there's something concrete.
- Derrick
Robert: when you talk to paul next, can you push him into doing a public announcement on it all? Just give him a nudge in the right direction! :)
- Chris Clayton
RobinDotNet... god, too many to count! First one I was bummed about was in '85 when Musicworks was the best MIDI program on the Mac... got acquired by some jerky game company that decided it wasn't a game and stranded all the users! Yeah, eventually new better stuff came along... but that didn't do the users of the current any good at that time...
- Fred Davis
Derrick: sorry, I totally disagree. I didn't know that contractually they can't kill the service anytime soon.
- Robert Scoble
It makes sense, they had leverage to make that deal
- Stephen Pickering
Fred -- Okay, so that was one that was 24 years ago. Have any more recent examples? If you can't think of any, then they obviously weren't that important.
- RobinDotNet
Because they were hesitant, they had the leverage to make that part of the deal. Makes total sense
- Stephen Pickering
Um, apple buys leading music sequencing package and kills of PC version because, um, they want to force you to use a mac... come on, the list is endless!!! Companies screw customers by killing good products for their own reasons all the time....
- Fred Davis
Sorry, things are moving fast in this thread. There's a contractual obligation on FB's part to keep FF running?
- Jason Huebel
Fred, you keep saying the list is endless, but the only one you can name is one that came out about 2 years after the 1st Mac, 24 years ago. I'm just saying....
- RobinDotNet
Fred, but what if part of the deal was not to kill it?
- Stephen Pickering
This whole "Friendfeed is dead" mantra is, has, and always will be nothing more than an attempt to get attention. Friendfeed is successful and Facebook would never do anything to destroy that.
- Paul L. McCord Jr.
Derrick: believe me, Louis and I have been talking and concerned about the messaging coming out of this deal more than anyone. We both invested a lot of our time/careers here. Louis has been talking with the team too and that's where his post came from yesterday. I suggest you read it and read between the lines too.
- Robert Scoble
Understand Robert, Really not about your motivation, just good manners in my opinion for Friendfeed to thank you publically. Maybe they have and I missed it. I think you did more for promoting the service than the founders.
- Jim Posner
now, what facebook decides to do with friendfeed... who knows... Yahoo kept Flickr going... so far... but that seems like the exception... no one's really using jabber any more, but it lives on in the upcoming Wave and as XMPP at Google...
- Fred Davis
Jim: thanks, appreciate it. Paul did thank me in the interview I did with him right after the announcement was made.
- Robert Scoble
If there is a contractual obligation on FB's part to keep FF running, the obvious question is what does this contract state and does it give a duration. Hopefully we'll hear more later.
- Kol Tregaskes
Why? What would be the point? I respect you two enough and all that you do in the world of social media and that's fine. I want a place I can converse, post my pictures, air my gripes, and continue to establish the friends I've made via Friendfeed. Will I be able to do that or not? I'm so tired of the conjecture. Some of us, are just people who love the service and more than anything, very simply, we just want to be able to utilize it.
- Derrick
Kol: I call it the "Paul is sleeping on the couch for a month" clause. ;-)
- Robert Scoble
For a company like Facebook, I would imagine that the consolidation of branding advantage would lead me to suspect that even if Friendfeed is kept going in some way, it will be re-branded as Facebook... just like Longs, Wamu, and Wells Fargo are going through right in Facebook's backyard.
- Fred Davis
Derrick, this is the place to do that. :)
- Louis Gray
The other main issue I have is that, now we are creating content for Facebook. Facebook owns our data. For some reason I didn't mind Paul and his team, they were blacksheep. If I wanted to make Facebook richer I would type in Facebook in the URL. I dont want to make Facebook richer.
- Robert Higgins
What are the alternatives to FF? Isn't there Streamy, Plurk, SocialThing?
- Eric
Louis, I'll be counting sheep soon, need sleep. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
@Eric, we've been evaluating alternatives in the CloneFeed/OpenFF room. None of them really come anywhere close to what FF offers.
- Jason Huebel
Eric, none of those services are really similar. SocialThing is closest, but FF is still quite a bit different.
- Sam Guzman
Of course, since I'm hoping Grabbit will replace Friendfeed for most people, I'm more than a little biased, and that makes me care a lot less about what happens to Friendfeed... even though I love the service, and hope Facebook keeps it going. We're already planning to support Friendfeed in Grabbit, and the new Friendfeed API is awesome, so who knows what the extent of the disruption...
more...
- Fred Davis
Sam, I know there is something. I am upset, because I wanted to buy FF someday! :)
- Eric
So the word now is that FF will be around for a while AND Paul's mentioned the possibility that parts of FF might be open sourced. Any idea what parts?
- Jason Huebel
Jason: too early to know that for sure. I'd start with the API. From what my friends are telling me who are good developers the API is actually very well thought out.
- Robert Scoble
Fred: I just don't like Facebook's service for WHAT I DO. For my wife? It's freaking awesome. And the execs there have always treated me very well (Zuckerberg walked around Davos with me, while every other journalist was drooling over the opportunity to do that -- he's a lot nicer and smarter than most people give him credit for).
- Robert Scoble
SocialThing got bought by AOL, and it wasn't as good as FF anyway. You could see people's activity, but there was no real interaction. FF is what it is because of the interaction.
- Sam Guzman
Eric & Jason: my new web thingie Grabbit, will do everything Friendfeed does and more, so much more... it's still in alpha, and the beta won't be out until next month... but already the alpha features better Facebook and integration than Friendfeed, IMHO... so, check out grabbit.net and ask to be on the beta list, and we'll keep you posted...
- Fred Davis
@Louis, I'm not going anywhere either. But this acquisition not only scared people that FF might go away but also that their data would go with it. So there is /some/ need for alternatives.
- Jason Huebel
Fred: can't wait to see more about Grabbit.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Hey dude, I TOTALLY agree with you about Facebook! I've been telling people for a while that I think Facebook is in the process of Yahoo-ing themselves... and that ain't no compliment!
- Fred Davis
Sam, got that in Grabbit... email, RSS, blog alerts, news alerts, and more... plus the coolest friend management stuff to help you sort all that out, not just the messages, updates, and alerts...
- Fred Davis
Mona: if you want me to do something for you, talk Maryam into it first. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Fred: Then I am really excited to try it.
- Sam Guzman
Eric: just like the others you mentioned, it has 1 or 2 similar features, but completely different!
- Chris Clayton
and twitter, facebook, friendfeed, etc., of course... we're starting a signup on grabbit.net...
- Fred Davis
I used to use FeedEachOther which was like FF.
- Eric
Chris: Like the friendfeed stream, you could login and see all your friend's activity, but also see your latest e-mails (Could be easily accessed with a sidebar link, like direct messages). By commenting on an e-mail, you could reply. Just like FF direct messages, but it would send a real e-mail response. Does that make sense?
- Sam Guzman
Google reader is improving, but still has a long way to go. On the social side.
- Bluesun 2600
That's the one thing I've always liked about FriendFeed - the founders (and staff) interacts with the community, as do their family members. The community members were treated like family, too. :) Whatever which way, hopefully Facebook will integrate FriendFeed's functions to carry on the "feel" over there as well. Personally, I have the more the merrier approach! BTW see you Thursday, Robert! Gnomedex sold out!
- Mona Nomura
I'm not up to speed with this discussion, but FB must have bought FF to merge FF tech into FB. FF for everybody, not just Scoble and tech friends.
- Zato Gibson
...would continue as independant application or as zombie inside "failbook"? ;-/
- Claude LaFrenière
Sam: i was actually looking for a way to have the subjects of my emails show up on my friendfeed dashboard awhile ago - do you mean like that? Because that would be awesome!
- Chris Clayton
i would love to see friendfeed get a killer mobile app...maybe improve on fftogo a little more
- (jeff)isageek
Google Reader is my current alternative btw. I've found the share box today and now using it like FF's share box. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Google Reader is great, but it's not built to replace FriendFeed. It's not an aggregator, for one.
- Louis Gray
one thing is I don't think you can share images from pages as easily as FF's share.
- Bluesun 2600
Chris: Yes, maybe have a subject show up in your feed, and clicking would expand to reveal the full e-mail. Reply's could be generated by commenting on the e-mail. I'm sure FF won't integrate this, but I'm just throwing it out there. It's something I wish some social service would integrate. Either that, or make e-mail inboxes more social. Kind of like Yahoo e-mails new features, but better executed. How cool would it be to login to your e-mail and be greeted by a FF like social stream.
- Sam Guzman
i think you can look at two services that were bought up and never really changed all this time in flickr and delicous so hey maybe friendfeed stays around as it is...maybe just integrates a bit more or something with facebook
- (jeff)isageek
Well you can put your services into a folder then create a bundle and share it. But no not quite like FF. It lacks a lot of features and Comments view is awful.
- Kol Tregaskes
and look how long google had grand central before they really even started doing anything with it.
- (jeff)isageek
I guess what I'm saying is, don't keep e-mail so separate from the rest of your online social activity. It should be more integrated than it is now, in my opinion. Why not include it in a service like FF?
- Sam Guzman
So Friendfeed stays on as a side project instead of being abandoned. Does that really make a difference in the grand scheme of things? The service isn't going to grow by leaps and bounds either in audience or functionality now. I guess a slow death is easier for people to deal with than a quick one.
- Dare Obasanjo
Sam: i love that idea... email services dont have RSS (not that i can find anyway) i was looking for 5 hours for one afew months ago so i could put it in a private group to show up on my FF stream. but i ended up being dissapointed!
- Chris Clayton
I hope we all converge over to Google Wave and that some clever sod codes a FF-type service built on the Wave protocol. :-) GWave is great fun to use!
- Kol Tregaskes
Kol: are you going to send me a download link? :P im still waiting for it from the 'sneak peek' survey i filled out AGES ago!
- Chris Clayton
Whhhhhhat how`d you try it already?
- sofarsoShawn
Dare: there are lots of things that don't get many new features but are still very popular. FriendFeed still has way more features and is better technology than anything else I've seen in the marketplace. Maybe someone will eclipse it, but that won't happen soon and, yes, a slow death is definitely better than a quick one. Why? Cause you can make plans and change your behavior.
- Robert Scoble
Download link for GWave? Don't work like that. ;-) Just wait until 30th September, Chris. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Chris, yeah, and I think what I'm describing would take more than just RSS integration. But Kol is right, maybe Google Wave will be the answer :) I can't wait to try it! Especially if other services can be integrated like in FF.
- Sam Guzman
Kol: but september is too long to wait :( blame scoble for making me a social media addict! :)
- Chris Clayton
Robert: if this is just about whether they'll shut off the servers or not then why is this even causing hubbub? Given the complaining of a vocal set of users I'm sure that even if they planned to shut off the site, it'll keep going for a while. However it seems obvious that all their innovative ideas and day time hacking should be filled with innovating on Facebook not here.
- Dare Obasanjo
As both Louis and I have said - these guys have been nothing but actions thus far and haven't let us down. I see nothing changing from that yet, so I suggest everyone continue that trust. They have done nothing to break that trust yet. And like I wrote about, Facebook needs them as much as they need Facebook - Facebook wants to change into something more of what FriendFeed is, from what I've seen and read.
- Jesse Stay
It's not about shutting the servers off for some (most?) folks, it's a matter of how you reconcile FriendFeed and Facebook's views on content licensing, ownership, and privacy; whether we'll continue to see innovation at a pace faster than what Facebook's user base has historically been comfortable with; and whether we'll see a continuation of Friendfeed's openness towards third party developers and the open source community.
- Ken Sheppardson
And as I've said over and over again, Jesse, I think most of us trust the FriendFeed folks as individuals, but that trust doesn't necessarily transfer to Facebook as an institution.
- Ken Sheppardson
I second Ken. Zuckerbergs plans/dreams are also a kind of wild-card here. They could be favorable to us FriendFeed users, or not. Up till now, Zuckerberg hasn't done much favorable for me. That sucks. I wish it were different.
- Meryn Stol
Say what you want about Facebook but Zuckerberg and/or Facebook has revolutionized the Internet by forcing people to be real. (not real-time) It even reflects on Youtube - the commenters aren't as moronic as they were say three years ago, since more and more people are using their real names and identities.
- Mona Nomura
It's always like this and it never turns out the way Paul says it will, though I believe his intentions are honorable. At some point you no longer work for the old company and you start working for the new one. My guess is this has already happened. Soon people from the old team will have their new assignments, and then one day the server will go down. They'll bring it back up, but...
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- Dave Winer
Damn, Dave. And I thought that *I* was a cynic.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Akiva, I've been through it myself, and been in Paul's position.
- Dave Winer
Dave, I don't doubt that at all. It's just amazing from my perspective to see it put so honestly. Well put, sir.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Only when I was in Paul's position, I had a simpler situation cause we were developing shrinkwrap software and our mission was supposedly unchanged. We didn't have servers that had to be kept up 24-by-7. Even so, six months after the merger, the whole thing was turned upside down and the team had all-new priorities and tons of people had left, including the top guy (me!). I would get...
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- Dave Winer
Dave, I expect it to change, but I also expect that Facebook is doing this for not just the team they just acquired. I think Facebook really wants this technology.
- Jesse Stay
Jesse, that may be true but they'll want it for Facebook. And if you're a fan of Facebook, that's great, Facebook's going to get better. But if you're not? If you're a a fan of FriendFeed? Then all you're going to end up with is a bastardized FriendFeed with lots of dipshit apps.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Jesse: I'm not so sure. The technology will need to be rebuilt for the Facebook infrastructure. That's one reason why Paul doesn't have good answers for us yet. He said he needs a few weeks to really dig into Facebook's code base before he even has a good idea of where he and the FriendFeed'ers can really add value.
- Robert Scoble
Akiva, I'm a fan of both. And you know you can ignore those apps - that's not something you can do on FriendFeed or Twitter. FriendFeed would have gotten just as bad as it grew.
- Jesse Stay
Dave: thinking back on why I joined FriendFeed, it was because I expected that the team would do something interesting in the future. That reason has now been fulfilled and now that these guys are at Facebook it'll be interesting to see what they do.
- Robert Scoble
Jesse, where is the button to ignore the apps? I want to ignore all of them, all the time. Instead, I have to click hide on every single bloody one of them and still get notifications from people wanting me to add apps. I'd tolerate Facebook better if there was a magic "no apps, ever" button.
- Rochelle
Somewhat selfishly, I have just gained a whole load of new friends on Fb, here and on Google Reader and have learned loads about sharing and subscribing for which I thank you all :-) I will just watch and wait now, but I do agree that if everyone dashes off somewhere else and deserts FF, it could well hasten its demise. Best to try and use all the services and interlink them if we can.
- Julia Ault
Rochelle: I want you to install the FriendFeed app. :)
- Louis Gray
I am sure that FB was not happy if FF was going into MS hands or Google hands ,they bought it and now they will be the most important live and live search player on top of the best social community,,I am happy for them and for us as well ,they will keep our home and thats great news
- Johni Fisher
Jesse, this is true. I guess my real point is—aside from the easy-as-punch Facebook app snarking—that the very philosophies on which each service was built are essentially different. I'm not saying that these divergent ideas can't be unified. I'm just not convinced that they're compatible enough to be integrated without irritating one group and overwhelming the other. I'm sure the...
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- Akiva Moskovitz
"I'm just not convinced that they're compatible enough to be integrated without irritating one group and overwhelming the other. " - very well put, Akiva.
- Meryn Stol
Akiva, who says they will become one site? Why not enable the two communities to remain separate if they want, under the Facebook brand? I don't think we know yet what will happen.
- Jesse Stay
Good news because I love friend feed in it's current format.
- Rob Cairns
Robert, yes, we don't know for sure, but then again we don't know for sure - I don't see reason to change too much of our trust until something actually happens. I do know Facebook wants to open up more, while still retaining your right to privacy. The privacy thing is something FriendFeed (or Twitter) doesn't have, and I think would be a welcome addition.
- Jesse Stay
Rochelle, you have to do it either by app, or individual (unless I've missed the option). That said, I would kill for the ability to do that on FriendFeed or Twitter. They don't even have that.
- Jesse Stay
Jesse: FriendFeed doesn't have apps, so I'm not sure what exactly you're referring to; if you mean the ability to hide posts aggregated from a particular service, that's already there.
- Tristan Seligmann
Last I checked, Jesse, FriendFeed didn't have MafiaWars or Superpoke.
- Akiva Moskovitz
(If you click on "Hide", and then "hide other items like this one", you get a whole list of options)
- Tristan Seligmann
FriendFeed has a finite number of things to hide ("all items from Bob", "all Flickr posts", etc.). That's much more easy control than the thousands of apps on Facebook. It's like playing whack-a-mole over there. It feels like the more I hide, the more they appear.
- Rochelle
Akiva, Tristan, it's only a matter of time before the auto-dm apps appeared on FriendFeed. So long as FriendFeed grows, they will come. So long as it doesn't grow, it *does* disappear. There's no "hide all from the app that generated this DM" option on FriendFeed.
- Jesse Stay
Jesse, and, with all of the hide options already present on FriendFeed, you don't think the devs would have had the presence of mind to include something similar for any supposed FriendFeed apps?
- Akiva Moskovitz
Akiva, I trust that they'll add that as much as I trust they'll continue to fight for FriendFeed at Facebook.
- Jesse Stay
They don't even need any extra options; you can already hide direct posts based on the application that created them. For example, if you hide this post of Robert's, you'll get the option to hide all posts by iPhone.
- Tristan Seligmann
Jesse, I think no-one doubts that *they* will fight. The question is if they win. They're just employees now.
- Meryn Stol
Again, I'm surprised that my own cynicism—legendary in its own right—is being beaten about the face and neck in this thread.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Meryn, I also know the Facebook team - they're just as competent as FriendFeed's. Their original audience started different than FF's, but they too have to expand.
- Jesse Stay
It's hard for innovators to stop innovating, and for entrepreneurs to lose the total freedom and self-reliance that drives them. Every entrepreneur that I know personally (only a few, alas!) who has sold for the big bucks has eventually gone on to create something else.
- Kathy Fitch
Jesse, as I said earlier, my lack of knowledge on the plans of Zuckerberg is the problem. Do you know Zuckerberg? In the end, he's gonna decide what appears on Facebook or not. Also, it's not so much a matter of competence than it is a matter of vision and taste.
- Meryn Stol
I'm sure the FB engineers are competent.
- Meryn Stol
And wouldn't it be fascinating to have a gander at the kinds of separation agreements folks who leave FB must sign? Almost as interesting as seeing the acquisition agreement in this case.
- Kathy Fitch
It's totally unclear if future conversations we might have on FB will ever be indexable by Google. (or any other search engine) That all depends on Zuckerberg's final say. I can't look in the guy's head.
- Meryn Stol
Sure seems like you're scrambling, Robert, to place yourself in the center of this when you were completely blindsided by the sale. Justs sayin'
- Mattb4rd
Louis, nope! Those are two separate worlds for me and I intend to keep it that way.
- Rochelle
Once you stop owning something you lose the ability to make promises about it. Good intentions or no. One hard headed business decision like FF is not earning its keep or we need the resources elsewhere and it's done. Been on both sides.
- Todd Hoff
The only thing that would make a real difference in this case would be an unambiguous statement from Mark Zuckerberg himself. Let him address the FF community and actually say what he will commit himself to. I suppose he's a man of his word.
- Meryn Stol
Hmm. A whole lot of the sale was in stock options. Takes awhile to get fully vested. The next few years should prove very interesting.
- Kathy Fitch
How can you live up to that promises when you no longer own it?
- John D Reasor
....hmmmm, we got the wrong impression then?
- Mark Essel
Nevermind, I'd feel a helluva lot better with an unattached open social media where I could rely on keeping contacts and connections however weak for as long as I chose to continue using the service.
- Mark Essel
Actions speak louder then words, and the key is the final decision is no longer up to him. I am sure Paul means every word he says I just not sure he is going to be able to keep it.
- Kim Landwehr
I don't expect FF to go away right away. I just expect things will definitely be different. I do hope that FB does improve, but I am also branching out given the sale.
- Kevin Whalen
"Promises are a bourgeois invention and, anyway, they're meant to be broken." [V. I. Lenin quoted from inexact memory] by
- ianf ⌘
@louisgray's »If you see the post I put up last night...« <http://friendfeed.com/scoblei...> If you cared for others to read that post, you'd have included a direct link to it. It's the essence of hypertext, and any "Silicon Valley early adopter, tech geek blogger" worth the name would have done just...
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- ianf ⌘
It would make some business sense to keep FF as some kind of separate site/module, if just to stop another site taking it's place and becoming another competitor.
- Robert Littlejohn
Hi Ian! I get what you are saying, but sometimes, dropping links to my own posts in other people's threads looks like spam. I also believe a good number of people saw it, and know how to get it otherwise. That said, it's right here: http://www.louisgray.com/live...
- Louis Gray
Robert - To say Facebook is more interesting to work for than Google may be a stretch. While Facebook is growing exponentially and has challenges, Google faces HUGE challenges just staying Google ... while exploring new areas of growth. Keeping the index relevant is a big challenge in itself. On the other hand ... the 'FF guys' have worked there already and know how they feel about what direction they wanted to go ... which .. I think ... makes a little more sense?
- Charlie Anzman
Charlie: remember most of this team already worked at Google. Facebook is pre IPO. Google is not. The potential rewards are much larger at Facebook and the potential to have an impact is much larger at Facebook too.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
Posting links (references) to one's other posts "looks like spam"? That's news to me, and a lame excuse. In any event, given main difference between worlds of analog and digital publishing being ability in the latter case to refer back to source in unambiguous and granular fashion (rather than, as in analog, to indicate issue, chapter, page, verse, line, etc - if at all), not including...
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- ianf ⌘
ianf, I agree, but it feels like spam when you're doing it. Encourage him nicely.
- Bruce Lewis
i suspect that, if FF were to survive relatively unchanged it will be through an open-source effort. i doubt FF will survive as a stand-alone site w/ Fb paying the freight.
- MikeAmundsen
Why don't the FF founders release an official statement saying how long the site will continue and what we can expect if we stay?
- Tomy Thomson
Keep in mind that despite the best intentions, nearly half of all sincere promises end in divorce.
- April Russo (app103)
Robert: I agree that the technology with great audiences don't get killed off, but the name of the game to the shareholders is money. It makes a ton more sense for facebook to integrate friendfeed into facebook, an already monetizable model, vs. leaving it as a de-coupled technology that has to have a new revenue model built for it.
- Erik Boles
With so much money still on the table in the form of stock options, there's certainly plenty of motivation to make FB stellar. If FF ends up being treated well, too (for whatever reason--a promise, a warm fuzzy feeling, its potential role in helping to make FB stellar), then I'm all for that.
- Kathy Fitch
There is a way to argue keeping FF going makes sense to FB: The important thing in social software ISN'T the software, it's the people who use it. If the people who use FF are sufficiently different to those on FB, then it could make sense to keep both services. Possibly they may end up using the same software, but have different brands. Think of VW group in cars (SEAT/Skoda/VS/Audi are...
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- Nick Lothian
That makes me feel better about trying to switch mainly to Friendfeed.
- Hunt
from iPhone
Interesting thread. I think that Paul has the best intention and he will do everything he can to keep the existing service up. Dave Winer has a good summary of the forces he will have to fight against. Making a Facebook vs. Google vs. Microsoft decision was probably a hard one. I am wondering if Twitter was in the race too...Twitter + Friendfeed could have been a great team to go...
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- Edwin Khodabakchian
Why the outreach now and not earlier in the week? Has something spooked the FF team? Seeing people looking for alternatives, and poking around Google Reader, Streamy, SocialThing, perhaps? Robert said it himself, if people leave here, FF dies, and the team doesn't have a whole lot to sell to FB (yeah, arguably) and that could scotch the whole deal. So I'm just wondering why the outreach now?
- Dominic Jones
read it from the begining, I'm happy FF crew is beginning to acknowledge the questions, Dave definitely has a point, but all-in-all I thought death was near, it looks like it gets delayed for some time. The main thing is ppl are still here although reader is the new playground...unfortunately the communication with their team isn't all that good...
- Dobromir Hadzhiev
Dobromir, "read [297 more comments] from the begining" is not a good advice for anything, least of all here, in the Kingdom of Perpetual Constant Fragmentary Attention Overload, where realtime fly-by comments are the rule.
- ianf ⌘
Robert, thank you for sharing this info. I hope everyone got the message clearly. Wonderful news!
- Michael Fidler
from iPhone
Ok, I hadn't time to read all the comments on this thread. But this sure sounds promising, and I do trust Robert and Louis when they're saying something. So I'm hopeful:)
- Patrik Johansson
It is not whether Friendfeed lives or dies. It's whether our free-wheeling, anarchic, community-driven approach will be replaced by the bland family-oriented guidelines of Facebook. Will we still be able to chuckle of Asian men on a beach, for example?
- Aaman (Clone of FF)
hey all, we can't return to the past, what happen has already happened, now the question is this one, may a micro community survive inside a large community, the answer is YES, FF community can and may have the same social behaviour it has here, and when move to FB, we need just to preserve our connections, and to maintain the same behaviour. that all, but even ancients tribes don't survive without scarifying some of their tradition.
- abdellah
Will Friend feed just get - morphed into Facebook now? clearly they want to take on Twitter. I noticed that I tryed to remove my Friend feed from facebook recently because less techy friends complained that I take over there Friend feeds...! But I can't... mmmm
- PRBristolco.uk
My goodness, there needs to be a way to search comments...I scanned to see if Paul had chimed in, but didn't see that.
- Chad Gesser
Scobe: I hope he does chime in. I think he needs to since you broke that.
- Chad Gesser
Chad: I think he'll say more after he has a little time at Facebook and can give definitive answers as to what the FriendFeed team is going to do there. He told me that will take several weeks.
- Robert Scoble
Facebook is genuinely interested in best in class customer experience. I can't yet envision what features or practices are incorporated or left behind, but it seems a positive move for users. There is always a die-hard loyal following that doesn't want to see their Freind (feed) go away. Heck, I still record The West Wing on Bravo.
- Jeff Marmins
Yeah i sure hope so robert. . i really rather not be on facebook.
- RamirezG
Chad, to aid in scanning, you can do a Ctrl-F (or equivalent) and search the current page for "- Paul Buchheit" and/or install my user script that adds a mini avatar to the beginning of each comment http://friendfeed.com/friendf...
- Micah Wittman
Scoble, why do you think FriendFeed won't get sacrificed by Facebook management? Most sensible thing, to me, is to get FriendFeed integrated as a feature of Facebook, then eliminate the individual brand. Fact is, it's Facebook's decision at this point, unless the FriendFeed guys got something in writing to the contrary (which likely didn't happen). Sometimes you've got to go with your...
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- Jason Nunnelley
Jason: it doesn't really matter. I've been on Facebook all morning and they already have a lot of FriendFeed's features. Soon the rest will be moved over too. And the servers won't get turned off anytime soon, based on conversations with FriendFeed and Facebook. So, for now, use it and be happy. Me? I've already been spreading out my social networking time just in case.
- Robert Scoble
and before he disappears into a part of the web that I can't find.....how do you say his last name? Boo-Kite? Buck-heat? Really, I don't know and I wanna know. Just so I know, You know?
- Morgan Haley
I love that Bret, Paul, and Kevin checked in. They probably are looking at their screens and asking "what do we do now?" how about ship some new features before Facebook overlords take you off to do bigger things?
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
I feel sorry for all you addicts. My use of it is purely social.
- Bruce Lewis
I do like FF and use it almost every day. Wouldn't it be great if FB either left it alone so we can continue to use it as "professionals," or somehow incorporate it into a more "mature" version of FB that didn't have all the annoying, time-wasting apps, games, etc. I'd much prefer a totally customizable FF "wall."
- Cathryn Hrudicka
I think FFundercats HO!!!!! would have worked but I'm here anyways.
- Jimminy Fuller
Actively fighting addiction to anything on a daily basis, but I'm still a FriendFeed fan! (I'd have been here sooner but I've been staring at Phoebe Cates pics for longer than I realized.)
- Mark "DerBingle" J
Thank you Robert Scoble to be here. :) BTW is this looks interesting for FF replacement? : http://streamy.com/ ? May be... I'll try it to see. :)
- Claude LaFrenière
Why should I? Whats in it for me? You doing some sort of survey of people to send out the police to do a "Safety Check" on when the site is shutdown?
- Uncle CW™
here. anecdote: a friend of mine just signed up for FF this evening. apparently the FriendFeed hype of the last 24 hours pushed him over the top. leaves me wondering whether FF has actually gained users today?it would be a crafty way of marketing the service. I'll wake up tomorrow to discover that there was a problem with the paperwork and the FriendFeed team have had a change of heart.
- JSLeFanu
from BuddyFeed
Count me in even though I was just starting to get hooked. I guess it's time to find a rehab and get all sobered up until the next relapse with some other new addiction. Isn't life grand?
- Usman Bashir
oh hey, look, the added an "add comment" link to the end of the comment list. Huzzah!
- Brett Kelly
from iPhone
++Jay. I was going to do the same thing yesterday but I didn't want to pay the money.
- David Cook
David -- this was a $9.95 session but you can get them for $7.95 and there are also 25% off coupons if you do online check-in prior to your Delta flight. That's an incentive for folks to use that service and offload kiosk use at the terminals. Very savvy marketing by the folks at GoGo and Delta combined.
- Jay Cuthrell
well, it's 12:12 a.m. and I'm perusing FF from my iPhone via BuddyFeed before turning in. so yeah, I guess I count. "Here!" (raises hand)
- Don Faulkner
from BuddyFeed
I recommend FF to some of my clients, and there are some companies and nonprofits with presences here—not like Twitter, but I'll be curious how that will be affected when FB takes over more. Most have FB fan pages, groups and/or causes, too.
- Cathryn Hrudicka
Yeah, me too. I just saw the request to have a comment link at the bottom of the comments from one of your friends just yesterday and here it is. I'd say they are listening. Thanks FF.
- Keith Rowland
И так чятег, пока Скобл не поговорит с нами представителями СовиетФрендфидика, все мои записи теперь можно читать в этом тредике. Пользуясь случае передаю Парню Бухайту и его команде большой привет, в связи с тем что [He can has sleep naw].
- ideali
превед кетаец! давай сегодня сделаем тебя счастливым!
- Махатма Бугоганди
точно! поэт, пародист, переводчик. известный блоггер.
- Махатма Бугоганди
я вчера был в издательстве, с меня сведения об авторе просят. давайте, говорят, напишем, где учился, что генеральный директор. и что известный блоггер.
- Махатма Бугоганди
а можно получить профессию известного блоггера? какие экзамены сдавать надо? какую специализацию лучше выбрать - микроблоггинг или аудиоподкастинг?
- Махатма Бугоганди
Один чувак пришол в чятег и говорит я известный блоггер кто тут тру на первый второй рассчитайсь. А ему говорят чувак у тебя сертификат есть что ты известный блоггер? Вот иди Зайке экзамен сдай потом приходи. А Зайка стоит такой с топором и улыбается. Щас думает счастливым его сделаю.
- Махатма Бугоганди
Я потерял интерес в данный момент. Я буду скрывать, как и любой другой. Это хромой, что вы захватили этот. Пивные правила. Спокойной ночи. :-)
- Matthew Horton
More than a friend of FriendFeed, was starting to use it as a full lifestreaming platform and loved it. It's made a whole lot of other sites make sense.
- achean
Hi, I'm Bette... I don't know if I'm an addict, but I can't stay away... I keep checking, just to see if something's new... and I cry if I get no responses to a post. Is that addictive behavior? :D
- Bette Cooper
Yup, I have blocked all the impersonators now. You will still see them, but I don't see them and they no longer can comment on any of my items.
- Robert Scoble
@scobleizer As far as I can see you have blocked not only the impersonators (who renamed themselves back the moment they found out you have a problem with this) but most of the folks who chatted there.
- Махатма Бугоганди
@meatreach yes, see next thread. Scobble becomes anti-Russian.
- Never Impersonate You
Maxatma: well, that's just too bad. I speak English. Sorry. People who don't speak English really don't have any business commenting on one of my items, except in rare cases.
- Robert Scoble
Why you, Robert Scoble, don't block users from Spain or Italy? China or arabic countries? Those users that comments on non-English languages?
- Never Impersonate You
@Robert, in fact they do speak English. But they also do make fun of Friendfeed and everything that's going on there. You can block them or take part in this fun. ;)
- Махатма Бугоганди
I prefer FF over twitter and facebook, but all my friends are on twitter and/or facebook. Maybe facebook will get it right this time now that it has acquired FF. If they simplify it a bit more without removing functionality. Then I would spend a bit more time on FB. Lets hope all goes well with the merger. If not I'm jumping ship and going over to Google Wave. oh wait, I'm going to go with Google Wave regardless! ;-)
- Captain Jack
Bu arada Russian friends Turkiye'ye selamlar gonderiyor.
- ideali
@scobleizer i can speak english and i beg you to remove bann from all russian friendfeeders, because we are all from it-community, working in internet companies and we came with peace, you asked for feedback from friendfeed addicts — we show you how really it is being frf addicts, we change names, we chat, we making things that are not serious. Why so serious? Unlock people, they are not bots, they just playing the game of real addicts and have fun. Common.
- ideali
shaun: I started this post to demonstrate that a lot of us are still here and aren't likely to leave. At least not quickly. So, life goes on after FriendFeed gets acquired by Facebook. Point proved.
- Robert Scoble
Robert He says ; Our Russian friends say to hello to Turkey
- Osman Üngür
ideali: have them send email to scobleizer@gmail.com and I'll unblock anyone who says they weren't impersonating me.
- Robert Scoble
Hector: good morning! I need coffee.
- Robert Scoble
@robert yes they (we will) stay here, I think tat the migration process will take time and after reading @Paul Bucheit, I think that what we all are trying to get even if we don't say it explicitly is to preserve a kind of intimacy (beeing a part of the Huge faceBook community) don't mean that FF community will preserve their intimacy, why should a community be a plan one, (let imagine a community as a set of sub-community) that all.
- abdellah
Wow!! So many likes and comments; is it a record Rob?
- میر «عرفان» موسوی
@scobleizer thank you, for understanding. be cool, guys we just want have fun here a little. Take care.
- ideali
@Robert RE "I have enough noise in my life. I don't need to have more" - isn't it a lot of noise having 26K subscriptions and 46K subscribers on your frf account? I'm kind of surprised - you create a community that large around yourself, yet when you see a new and unusual activity you just block it right away.
- Махатма Бугоганди
@Robert, patience? Who's talking about patience? It's about curiosity, not patience. When something strange and unusual happens around you, you can either try to stop it or try to see what it can develop into. You choose to stop - and it stopped. Well, not stopped - just moved to some other place. And do you really know what it was and what it was about to bring you?
- Махатма Бугоганди
I'm here all the way from South Africa! I dig this service and I'm not quite ready to give it up. Regardless of the news about the acquisition, this remains an awesome service.
- Paul Jacobson
I'm new to ff but find more valuable information here than anywhere else!
- Janet Crance
I don't know how I rate my addiction relative to others, but I shared Hitler's reaction upon hearing the acquisition news (despite happiness for Paul and Bret)
- Chris Duffy
I'm sure this is part of Scoble's plot to poll all the people who really read his posts, and unfollow the rest. So I raise my hand.
- Shivanand Velmurugan
Just a wannabe. Not an addict (yet).
- Carole Hicks
It might also be a way for me to filter down my "following" count (diff (my followers, scoble)) are the only people I really need to follow. Those that scoble follows, I can safely unfollow and use Scoble as my social media filter :)
- Shivanand Velmurugan
pardon the arrogance but it really sucks this great forum of sharing will turn into a myspace humdrum. Now I have to find another SM where first adopters and well informed techies won't haft to compete with general "noise"
- earl wallace
Well, here's a comment I can later delete and rob the owner of 1500!
- Matthew DeVries
I just mention the 1500 mark since it was such an iconic query to see... that and the 500 Likes club of FF posts. It's pretty exclusive stuff... but it's also sobering to note that the subject matter required to get to these levels isn't always a uniform mix of cares/concerns.
- Jay Cuthrell
When I heard the FaceBook news, I tried to quit FriendFeed and I couldn't... I'M HOOKED
- The Web's Wendell Wittler
i clicked the "1488 more comments" and my computer nearly exploded. and yes, i am using an amiga 500.
- jack
Now that I have instructions (thanks LouisGray) and figured out my Bookmarklet! I am LOVING the ease of use! addict - not quite...
- Robyn Hawk
Actually, I lied. I am not a die-hard friendfeed fan. I desperately want to be but have just not been able to get into a good "feeding" rhythm. Maybe I need to add some more friends
- Anant Gairola
I don't need to be addict. I'm just here, everyday, absorbing so many geeky info :D There's no place like FF
- Lysender
I'm still with ya, Robert. Whatever FB paid for FF, it wasn't enough!
- Donald C. Lindsay
New here, but learning. Tips for best use?
- Barbara Langham
@bdlangam From my perspective the #1 tip in this category is: Explore and define "best use" for yourself. Despite potential "finishing" impression of some productive consolidations in this collective-collaborative cognition space, the emergent #cognosphere is still WAY too nascent to assert anything other than initial impressions. March to the beat of your own drum; build your own...
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- michael silverton
yeah sorry, late. was at Shambhala Music Festival, I know tardy, sorry...
- sofarsoShawn
I'm getting hooked, still figuring it all out
- Michele McGraw
I think I do. Not enough contacts to make a impression.
- Michael Schlag
hehe.. just don't follow if you don't find him interesting
- monkeystick
you sure write a lot in my feed all i can see is your green photo :)
- testbeta
@moneystick.. seems like that's the best option. Unfollow and the silence is golden.
- Sam Grover
testbeta: you need to follow more people. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Scoble: The green is tired man...time for a change :)
- Owen Greaves
Pompous? an new word in my vocabulary. With a new word a day I will speak english well in about hmmmm... 250 years. BTW and FYI Chris Brogan never sleep (compare to you) http://bit.ly/PVoQ2 and He have his Google voice account now. POLL: how many poeple can talk w Chris Brogan in the same time. ;-)
- Claude LaFrenière
Yawn Scoble hate is the new black I iz bored with it - unless we are talking about ALEX Scoble hating and then I am all for it! (kidding Alex simmer down)
- Marco(aureliusmaximus)
hehe, my wife who only use the web to read her mail and browse orkut is also annoyed by you Scoble. Yesterday she asked with an angry face "who is this green guy that looks like an alien and keep popping up on your screen"? :D
- Diego Sana
pompous thoughts aside - think of the technical resources required to remove Scoble from the internet.. even the FBI could never make him disapear!
- Nathan Vingoe
Paradoxically, the place where he can get away from Scobleizer is FriendFeed, because Block is exactly the "global internet delete" button he's looking for.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
Anything to grab your attention, really.
- Jordi Soler
@Scobleizer you're a critic, not pompous. I do like you better in person than online though. Sometimes you're "in a hurry" online (understandably) & that might come off as rude to someone who hasn't chatted with you offline.
- Enrique Gutierrez
Arrington paid him...and he's driving clicks for Chris Brogan ; >
- Thom Kennon
Al Gore may have a global delete button. If not, he can invent one.
- Shaun McDonnell
funny stuff!! I like your global delete button. Everyone should be so luck to have as much influence to need one. While I've never met you personally I don't quite see you as pompous...if I thought you were I wouldn't bother reading your blog or posts here on friendfeed. If he believes you to be so awful why not read something else?
- t i n y m
Good on you for sharing these thoughts Scobers! it takes a big man to lord his critics!
- Bryn Morgan
What a winner. Won't even come here for a chat so I can figure out why he's so bent? Says I never talked with him in the past. Geesh.
- Robert Scoble
Why doesn't he just unfollow you? I don't understand.
- Pat Canella
If there wasn't a Robert Scoble we would need to invent one!
- Craig Shipp
tinym: it makes some people feel better to tear down someone else or call them names. Sometimes even I do that. It's the Internet, what can I say?
- Robert Scoble
A global filter would be great. No more LOLcats! :)
- Louis Gray
Robert! I have only ever found you energetic and engaged. Pompous is not a word I would use. Thanks for the follow and your unending energy!
- Tobin Truog
I prefer gregarious. Or we go crazy with the adverbs, engagingly loudly gregarious.
- Mike Lewis
ha...Robert, sometimes I do find you pompous from some of your posts, e.g. the one about how you follow people.
- Kent Chen
Kent: it takes a certain amount of pomposity to write anything on the Internet, to tell the truth. Who the hell is ANYONE to expect someone else to read their stuff? :-)
- Robert Scoble
Right, that's why you still show up in my twitter and Google reader. :) Things will get better if you can change your green face to something else, like blue maybe.
- Kent Chen
why is he so mad about it...it is a free country, you can delete whoever you want.
- Jeanne
Robert re: expectations - I write everything I write with the understanding that I'm writing it for me, when/if someone else reads it, I consider that a bonus.
- Enrique Gutierrez
Everyone's whining about FaceFeed. But, the best time to sell a company is when you're the hot up-and-comer. Facebook made a smart (buzz & talent) buy, and FriendFeed probably made a smart business decision. But most people are not pissed that it was sold, but to whom. The crux of it is: most FFers don't like Facebook.
Let's clarify, a lot of FFers don't like FB for some *very specific* reasons: it's slow, it's clunky, the UI is horrible, the apps are nightmares to deal with, the privacy settings are a crock and more convoluted than my house's mortgages documents, plus the ever questionable use of your copyrighted materials in their ads. But other than all those things, FB is great =/
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
I always forget that one jcunwired, mainly because I don't actually participate on FB. I don't participate there because it's ugly as homemade sin and slower than running in a stream of molasses.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
BTW: I am one of the whiners. I don't like Facebook either. I, too, want to take my marbles and go home. But I'm also saying: if I were FriendFeed, I probably would have done this deal. And if I were Facebook, I *surely* would have done this deal. We have to see all sides.
- Anthony Citrano
Well, I guess out best hope is the FriendFeedization of Facebook, versus the Facebookification of FriendFeed.
- phil baumann
I am on FriendFeed because I don't like Facebook (or Twitter). If I wanted to be active on Facebook, I'd already be active on Facebook... But I'm not... I prefer FriendFeed... and the idea of being "forced" to use Facebook instead makes me sick. I will just quit if that's the only option. :(
- Fa La La La Lindsay
I think we do, Anthony. At least, most of us do. I'm proud and happy for the FF staff for the sale, I just dislike where the check came from. And I kinda wish the announcement had been handled differently, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
But Lindsay, was it that you never expected the company to be sold or you expected them to stay independent forever and try to find a profit model (about which I can almost hear the alternate-reality whining.) This word "betrayal" is being thrown around. I'm wondering what you betrayees would have had them do (or what your expectations were.)
- Anthony Citrano
I saw FriendFeed as becoming it's own platform... it was well on it's way and had lots of potential for growth and expansion. There are innovations in its search, many people had already expressed interest in paying for "Pro features" if they were offered, and they had already received enough funding to keep them afloat for several years... I know the money was too tempting, and I don't...
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- Fa La La La Lindsay
I have a preconception that it's hard to find new people on Facebook - after all, it was built for old people, as in: relatives, old school chums et al. My daughter pointed out that if you spend time on Group and fan pages, you can have FF-like discussions and meet new people that way, although I really like hovering over people to get a sense of who they are while i'm reading their...
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- MaryB, BrandingBroadOfFF
I hear you Lindsay and am off to read your article now. I share your assessment that it could probably have done reasonably well within that model. Although it (the product or the codebase) never would have seen mass acceptance, I don't think.
- Anthony Citrano
FriendFeedization of Facebook will probably help. It needs some work, though!
- Tim Tyler
@Tina and jcunwired: Just to clarify, Facebook censors *some* content. Evidently breastfeeding mothers are *bad, bad, bad*, but Holocaust deniers are A-OK. As for me, I'm taking a wait-and-see approach for now. I'm not happy about the merge, but done is done.
- vicster is...
@jcunwired: I don't use FB so I can't comment of their censoring of content over and above what's already publicly known. But current FF is not without censorship either, and of almost worse –self-administered– kind. Giving every Tim, Jane and Harry ability to delete and block access to others' comments in their threads inevitably leads to abuse. At least moderators of large fora (or...
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- ianf ⌘
So delighted to see so many saying FB is slow and clunky! I see so many "social media mavens" raving about it & how useful it is. It takes me forever to do 2 things on there! Useful? I am always left with a sense of tremendous time wasted. No useful... Who knows what the merger will bring? A whole new yet to exist option might show up. Zuckerberg wants to grow FB to really be the...
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- Amy Flynn
Amy, that's because anybody calling herself (or allowing to be called) "a social media maven," expert, or, worse, "a pundit," by definition isn't. It's like wearing a badge of a "Wannabe Professional."
- ianf ⌘
Along with what Tina mentioned, FB is where I have to hangout (work) and FF is my neighborhood pub.
- Robert Miller
for me, FriendFeed is all about data and content, and FB is all about people. I don't foresee FB changing its model at this point, so I see the end of FF as the most likely result.
- tim
@tim: sadly I agree with you. I'm still trying to get my head around what a "good" integration/merge will look like.
- Anthony Citrano
How does everybody feel about all the time invested in Friendfeed now? Especially since it sounds like it will be "assimilated" into Facbook eventually to not exist.
I'm probably in the minority here. I spend most of my time on FF and FB so I'm hoping it will be a plus. FB is where most of my interactions take place. FF is where I get most of my business info. It would be nice to combine them into one app somehow. I wold like to see FF's influence on FB more.
- Katy Barrilleaux
I don't mind. The time invested made me a part of this community and made this community a part of my life. What I've lived here, what I've learned, the people I've met, Facebook can't take that from me.
- Brome
I don't mind about the time invested but I think I will find it difficult to invest the same amount of time in the coming months, weeks or whatever we have left. I will have to find something else just as stimulating, it won't be easy but I know it won't be Facebook.
- M F
It's not necessarily the time invested, its the connections to other PEOPLE and the possibility of losing those connections that I'm concerned about. Sure content is nice and all, but its the daily interaction with FRIENDS that matter to me the most on my FEED.
- Brian Daniel Eisenberg
I think I have already been amply rewarded for my "investment". Problem is I am greedy -- I would like to continue to invest and reap rewards and I don't think that scenario will play out so well.
- Brian Sullivan
I have RLFs on Facebook and virtual Friends on FriendFeed. Facebook is my private life (pics of kids, woke up with a hang over etc.) Friendfeed is where I get lots of cool info, and hopefully share info that others may like with a broad audience. Now being the paranoid parent that I am, I do not want to be forced to un-friend the many people on FriendFeed because of my over protectiveness for my kids. That is my main concern with any possible integration.
- Steve Sill
Facebook's much wider adoption has always made it the more useful community for me. But man is FF's search useful. I actually think that's one of the huge reasons Facebook purchased FF.
- mrshl
lost, finding another place like this one will be hard...
- Dobromir Hadzhiev
It is pretty pretty amazing how much of a surprise this acquasition is and just how sour FF users are about it all. I think the primary reason is because the absorbtion of FF is inevitable. this essentially means no more FF. If a company like Yahoo or Microsoft had purchased FF then the reaction would be different, no?
- Adam Helweh
from BuddyFeed
It doesn't matter where we connected - it's the connections that matter, you guys.
- Mona Nomura
Mona: Except I can't use connections on FB to filter information for me in the same way I can here, so the "where" does matter.
- Christopher A Carr
a little sad but inevitable I really thought twitter would buy FF
- Thomas Power
I liked the fact that business and personal stuff were relatively separate... now I'm confused...
- Nigel Walsh
I agree with Christopher. depending on how much Facebook adopts from FF the method from which we make and foster these connections is considerably different. Facebook is much more closed to "discovery" at the moment in comparison to FF or even Twitter. maybe this acquisition is meant to change that?
- Adam Helweh
from BuddyFeed
Facebook is Closed Selective Controlling (CSC). Friendfeed is Open Random Supportive (ORS). CSC has no future on the Internet and Zuckerberg knows it http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- Thomas Power
I don't feel like I've lost anything; even if all of this ends up ceasing to exist (which I highly doubt), it's still been valuable to me while it lasted.
- Tristan Seligmann
One thing is for certain, this "event" has helped prove that Friendfeed has some of the most passionate users on any social network.
- Adam Helweh
I personally don't care about my content other then how it is perceived outside the realm of FF. Other then that when I put information or share things its out in the either for the world to do with as they wish. What is sad is that if I had to delete my account here, all my content goes with me.
- Uncle CW™
I agree with CW. I actually don't really care about the content that I have posted in Friendfeed. Much of it exists elsewhere obviously. However, I am curious to know how people feel about investing so much of their "heart" into a community and seeing the platform in which it formed get sucked into another platform as "tech". Not sure if I am articulating it correctly.
- Adam Helweh
What Alex said. And worried, and seriously annoyed. And angrier than ever with Facebook.
- Kamilah Gill
Like I wasted a lot of time. Yet at the same time it was all worth it.
- Mathew™ one of a kind
Worried about what will happen to FriendFeed, and sad to see the service get bought out just as I was starting to get the hang of it.
- John (a.k.a. dendroica)
People can congratulate the FriendFeed guys as much as they want but this site would be NOTHING without us. And I don't mean Scoble and his tag-alongs. I'm talking about the core group of users who have truly made FriendFeed what it is today. Technology without users is dead.
I dunno, the site has had a bunch of different sets of "core users" over the years. I thought it was useful before the current crop showed up.
- Jason Wehmhoener
Ok lets go all high school in our reactions here.......
- Rasmus Lauridsen
So the FF snobs can't play with the FB snobs? Is that how it works?
- Bette Cooper
Being a snob about Facebook is like being a snob about processed cheese slices. You can try it but you're going to look damned foolish.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Good grief. There's nothing here that didn't exist in 1993 via IRC and Usenet. Get over yourselves and go make the next Friendfeed if you're all hot and bothered about it.
- Jason Wehmhoener
I have no doubt plenty will say the same about FriendFeed...
- Bette Cooper
other way round - we wouldnt be here if it wasnt for the FF guys
- Jamie
Amen. They said nothing about users in their announcements.
- Dave Winer
Arrington's inteview with the FB and FF guys suggests they want the engineers not the service itself
- Mark
"There's nothing here that didn't exist in 1993 via IRC and Usenet".... Actually you're wrong. IRC and Usenet, like successors Facebook and Twitter were/are all about conversations with ocasional nuggets of information. Friendfeed was all about nuggets of information with eventual conversations around them.
- Mario Valente
"Bret and the gang owe it all to us and we have now been paid in full." This would be true, Akiva if Facebook had bought friendfeed for the content...instead they bought it for the talent. I think this could have happened regardless of community involvement, which is why it's an even deeper betrayal.
- Alex Scoble
Why is it a betrayal? Friendfeed is a BUSINESS....
- Rob Sellen :o)
If you don't understand how screwing over your customers is the worst betrayal a business can do, then you shouldn't be in business.
- Alex Scoble
Holy crap! Friendfeed is a business! Wow, I comLETELY forgot!
- Jim Addz No Value
Alex, what have you bought from friendfeed so far? I guess it all depends on who you think the customer is.
- Richard Lawler
I bought the use of the service and I paid for it with my time, my words and my word of mouth advertising.
- Alex Scoble
I'm looking for Alex Scoble's time, words and word of mouth advertising on the balance sheet, gimme a sec.
- Richard Lawler
I don't know, Akiva. I've had a lot of good experiences here. Among them was getting to know Robert Scoble and his tag-alongs. I feel like they won me as a user with the technology and community they gave me. It's their party. They get to say when it's over.
- Bruce Lewis
really? REALLY? And who is the core group of user to which they depend on so much?
- Patrick Allmond
word Akiva. That post up there, that could me posting it. That how much it rings true with me.
- vijay
That's a direct insult to: (1) everyone who is not part of "us" [whoever your 'us' points to; not me] (2) the brilliant engineering of the FF team [because if it wasn't for your 'us', FB would not have come to them with $50 million].
- Mohamed J
without the team and the VC there would be no "us"
- Thomas Power
If you want to know who the core group of users are, just check out ffholic. And if the FF team is insulted, then they should've better prepared themselves for the backlash that they had to know was coming.
- Akiva Moskovitz
The wealth of social media is in the user community. Your friends are your personal credentials and so it goes... all the way up the line.
- Fossil Huntress
Without the users friendfeed is nothing but lines of code.Actually, without anyone to use it, it would be useless code. Sure VC invested in it, but so did we. And the ff team and VC win and the rest of the investors (us) lose.
- April Russo (app103)
Akiva it's not the developers you are insulting it's all of us "Scoblefollowers" We are part of this community but you decided to swing the high school clique bat and discount us all as nothings. Thank you, that shows your great community spirit... I guess you didn't get what Bette meant by FF snobs.. I'll look at it as a "knee jerk" reaction since I normally like you and your posts.
- Rasmus Lauridsen
Look, I see where people are coming from here, but if "community" is gonna be every fifth word, maybe we should work harder not to tear ourselves apart just because some business issues happen. Being worried about the possible changes is understandable. I don't feel "betrayed", I am just worried. But playing clique games is a bad idea, creating "us vs. them" mentality is a bad idea, and...
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- Neal Jansons
Rasmus, you're not getting the actual sentiment here. The Scoble tag-a-longs are people who followed Scoble from Twitter to FriendFeed and then ended up contributing nothing to the community here other than dumping their Twitter streams and occasionally replying to Scoble's posts. Robert's unique in that he can encourage 20,000 people to join a service but just because they tagged along...
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- Akiva Moskovitz
Neal, I don't see where I've played clique games. As I pointed out above, just go to ffholic.com and look at the 20 most active users. THOSE people are the driving forces behind FriendFeed community. Do you see my name in that list? Nope. I'm not sure what you think my motive is to promote an us vs. them mentality when I am neither part of the 'us' nor part of the 'them'.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Thnx, Jason, I try. I just think that it is a self-fulfilling prophecy to say "OMG FB bought FF, it's gonna destroy the community!" and then go around doing everything we can to polarize ourselves. Save the polarity and extreme positions for blog posts. We need to keep our behavior up to the standard that has made this such an awesome place to be, and if the conditions become untenable,...
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- Neal Jansons
Oh, Akiva, I am not pointing the finger at you at all! The tone is the issue here...upset is turning into angry too much. I am not saying you made a cliquey statement, but people went there. You made a statement about content and value, no us and them. The us and them crap seems to just happen. What I am urging ALL of us (including me) is to be careful and live up to the standards that have made FF great, even if FF goes bye-bye.
- Neal Jansons
Akiva - I am a Scoble "tag-along" as you derisively labelled me/us, so I too resent your holier than thou tone and attitude
- Brian Sullivan
Brian, you need to read through the comments.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Brian...are you here responding and posting? Then you are not who was being referred to. The tag-alongs are those who just go to add numbers and then don't interact at all. The very fact that you saw the comment excludes you from who the comment is about.
- Neal Jansons
Neal, ah, got you. With how tense things are around here right now, it's terribly easy to read the negative into everything.
- Akiva Moskovitz
And for the record, I don't buy into FFholic too much. Follower count is just not a good metric for judging a community. A lot of people I consider "core group" here are not in the top 20.
- Neal Jansons
Neal, true, which is why I referred specifically to the top 20 most active users and not the most popular.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Now thats one post on FF which I've really really really liked...
- Rohit
Akiva...I know, that is exactly why I am urging all of us to be careful. I am trying to willfully ignore things that seem provocative.
- Neal Jansons
Funny, i woulda thought that "core groups" (and there appear to be several claiming the mantle) kinda sorta goes completely against the type of shared community ethos I thought this place was all about.
- Thom Kennon
Thom...core groups are a natural sociological phenomena. They are unavoidable, due to loci of interaction and convergent socialization. I participate in no ethos that pretends like some hippie ideal is going to subvert basic rules of interaction. In any case where there is a community of sufficient size, those who participate more become the core group. Only way not to have one is to have no community or no participation.
- Neal Jansons
I would like to add that just by participating, you're already 'in' on FriendFeed.
- Akiva Moskovitz
I would agree w/ Thom. This week I am more active then Akiva, but I think we are equal as we both are active even though we are in different circles. Now does this make me part of a "core" anything- who knows. Akiva is right, it is the active users that make this happen.
- Joe
Deakins, contributing is one thing; caring about how many people see your contribution is another.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Neal - yes, totally get the sociological phenomena. I'm talking about how people elevate themselves in comparative self-worth by striving to exclude others not in their "core group". As natural as it may be, it is uncool when waved as a flag in defense of being wronged. You see - it's ironic in this case as some of the core group people are kvetching they got left out in the deal. There is, alas, always a more core core group.
- Thom Kennon
Well it goes both ways. They saw a need for such a site, they created it. We liked it as it suited our tastes. They deserve the credit because they made it, early adopters like you encouraged them keep going. Why say stuff like, "Technology without users is dead"??
- | Balu |
Kibbutz privatization is a trending topic.
- Eric Logan
Okay Moskovitz, you do know the correct way to this. Good day.
- Joe
That was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, Deakins. I just have other things to do right now. I'll return to this thread later.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Ahh, I see what you are saying, Thom. I don't subscribe to that attitude...that isn't a core group as I mean it, that is a clique. I got familiarized with the notion of a "core group" in my activist days, where the sociological aspect was focused on making sure people who were NOT core group got their ideas included and didn't feel excluded. It's a organizational psych. issue...not...
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- Neal Jansons
Look Akiva if you don't have enough courtesy to use my first name then I guess new folks like me are not entitled to respect from FF users like yourself.
- Joe
WTF, Deakins? This isn't because anyone thinks they are better than you, he is just responding to usernames, most likely because he is using a client, not the web interface (just like me). All I see is usernames. You are willfully choosing to take offense. Can you keep your narcissistic injury under control? If not, maybe you aren't in the best place emotionally to have a civil discussion and should withdraw.
- Neal Jansons
from IM
If you want people to call you by your first name, include it in your username so people using clients will see it.
- Neal Jansons
from IM
@Akiva Moskovitz I never said users are not necessary. I said, "early adopters like you encouraged them to keep going" Yes you had a role so did many others, who build friendfeed into what it is today. What makes friendfeed special is the underlying code. That's what made you, me and many others stay. The groups, the search, the real-time thingy.. People, the users, make something good, perfect.
- | Balu |
Neal: He already knows my first name and if you look in the comments above you will see that I mentioned it again. So thanks for your tip. :) You have a great day Neal.
- Joe
I don't happen to think it is the underlying code that makes it special. It would be just as special to me if it were the same conversations with the same people on phpbb forum.
- April Russo (app103)
April, on phpbb you wouldn't find the interesting people through all the noise. The precise workings of Like/Hide on FF are important.
- Bruce Lewis
I don't know about that. Well, maybe not phpbb. More like SMF. At least there is a "permanently ignore" mod available that works well as a "hide"" and then there is ones for "ignore user" and ratings, and all kinds of other stuff. And I wouldn't miss anything at all with the unread items page, something Friendfeed lacks. And a slight modification to one of my apps would give me ability to search right from my taskbar.
- April Russo (app103)
Is it wrong for me to feel a certain sense of betrayal? I didn't spend all my time here making connections, adding in interesting content and trying to get friends to join so that friendfeed would get acquired by Facebook.
I guess I should be glad that I made a bunch of new friends here and have learned a lot, but I just wish that the guys at friendfeed hadn't sold out to a company that doesn't really need what friendfeed has.
- Alex Scoble
But let's be honest, they built this to make money and survive. Gotta say I'm pleased it's shown to be worth something, and I'm guessing a significant something for FB to acquire them. Wonder if they were offered shares in FB as part of the deal?
- Mark Aitken
I guess we are all betrayed - in certain terms.. but FB should have done its market research before it got this property. Most of the USERS are not happy with FB type of connections or that property , so we left and looked for something better, it was FF. Now a new hunt will begin !
- Peter Dawson
actually, you kinda did. if users like you didn't create so much value, Facebook wouldn't have acquired (notwithstanding feelings of betrayal).
- jeffscott
I share your sentiments in many ways. I have been proud to tell others who had no idea that FF existed how good it is (lets hope not was!) Lets hope they keep the spirit alive. By the way the minute I see any target 'phorm' style advertising, I am off to find a new up and coming. I wont run to Tumblr yet but I do have one foot in already, just in case.
- Kevin J Hatton
My immediate reaction was Facebook will push ads onto their users. I think FriendFeed could be seriously screwed up with live moving ads, so that's hopefully out of the picture from a purely usability view. Friendfeed is all about realtime web information. I then wonder how in that case will the monetise the relationship. My guess? Facebook will show live conversations and hopefully they will rip out the poor IM implementation in Facebook. The purchase may be nothing more sinister, I hope...
- Mark Aitken
Feeling a bit of betrayal, or unhappiness atleast. Have a Facebook account but rarely use it since it's a walled garden. Preferred Friendfeed for better technology, organization, but even more so it's openness!
- LonelyBob
Betrayed is a strong word, but I do feel a loss of ownership. And it's not like I really 'owned' the community, or the content I put into it. All the same, I contributed, and the more a person contributes to something, the more they feel a sense of entitlement (?) or ownership. Now it's as if I've had someone just pull a rug out from under me.
- cecily
I don't give 2 cents if that's wrong or not but I feel betrayed.
- vijay
Peter, I doubt FB gives a crap about FF users. FB wanted the talent that worked at FF, not the product.
- Jeff P. Henderson
I understand the sentiment, but this is the way of tech apps;.nothing stays the same for long. Feeling betrayed is not gonna change anything. Either you roll with the changes and try to force the positive, or you quit.
- Rene Wirtz
I agree with Cecily that betrayal is a strong word. I have always understood that FriendFeed is a free service, thus I can't claim control over it. Though, really, I wonder what s going to happen to my thousands of likes, comments, posts, etc.
- Rishabh Mishra (p248)
Completely concur with you Alex. Just goes to show maybe there is room for another platform...
- Arleen Anderson
As I said elsewhere, this was a talent + buzz acquisition. I sorta wish I could download my FF history and host it on my own server with SweetCron or something.
- Anthony Citrano
+1 Alex. EndFeed's the word... well, how about everybody grieves for 5 minutes, then gets the search for greener pastures under way. There was plenty to be improved about FriendFeed (been saying that since well before this announcement), so I just hope that someone else has the databasing/real-time wherewithal to build something like this, improved.
- Alex Schleber
Facebook doesn't even give a crap about their own users
- Alex Scoble
from IM
Do any of these sites give a crap though Alex? I understand what you are saying and how it makes you feel this way, but I realised a long time ago.. they are ALL businesses and the bottom line is NO they don't give a crap... because they are NOT depending on you to be ok..
- Rob Sellen :o)
friendfeed at least acted as though they gave a crap...at least until today. And there's nothing about being a business that says "crapping on your customers is OK". Business is business does not equal "screw your customers to make a buck".
- Alex Scoble
from IM
That and stunned. Lately I've been describing Friendfeed to the uninitiated as "a facebook without all the crap." Unfortunately, it looks like now it'll just be integrated into all the crap, if kept at all. That said, congratulations to the FF team - this is a big win for them and they deserve a lot of kudos. I look forward to the web apps they come up with in the future.
- Chris Rogers
"Is it wrong for me to feel a certain sense of betrayal?" - in an emotional sense, no. In a literal sense, yes, unless you can show me where FriendFeed made a commitment to you that they'd never change in a way that didn't fit your ideals for the service.
- Edward Coffey
i'm just hoping they will keep friendfeed separate and use it as a testing ground for new features.
- Edgar Rodríguez
They made a commitment to us when they built a service that wasn't called Facebook or Twitter. They made a commitment to us when they listened to our feedback and participated in our feeds. They made a commitment to us with their actions. A commitment that has been forever shattered with their deal with the internet equivalent of the devil.
- Alex Scoble
from IM
Lindsey is right.. the thing is Alex... friendfeed is STILL here... ;o) YOU are still here...
- Rob Sellen :o)
Not for long, Rob. I give friendfeed a year tops.
- Alex Scoble
from IM
And forget about any improvements to the site. You know that the team will be much too busy trying to figure out what the next iteration of Facebook should look like.
- Alex Scoble
from IM
Yep , definitely a sense of foreboding there ... "for the time being"
- Tom Horn
I can empathize with these sentiments, but Social Media is a set of tools--I appreciate the connections I make, but I'm not getting too emotionally worked-up about the tools changing.
- Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)
why? friendfeed.com is not going anywhere is it... no reason this place couldn't stay.. what if they LOCKED friendfeed users in now.. said.. we WILL reward you users for helping us, testing things for us etc... ;o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
Rob...did you not notice who bought them? Facebook is known for doing dick for their users.
- Alex Scoble
Absolutely not Alex, I feel the same way. About 18 months' collection of content, great friends, an open community all gone. We now are marched into an atmosphere of censorship and walled relationships where users don't amount to a hill of beans. Really, really sucks.
- jcunwired
I'm sure FF is going away one way or another; there's no way that the combined company is going to keep developing full steam ahead on both products. Is it wrong to feel betrayed? I don't know. I don't personally feel betrayed, but I guess I'm not nearly as invested in FF as you and others are. I do think the end result may be something positive though; the ability to interact with the larger FB community on this level is something that could be truly wonderful. Then again, it might just end in tears...
- Tristan Seligmann
Especially when we consider that while they built the tools, we as a community are what made it great - both with our usage, our dedication and our regular feedback to make the site better. As I said before, its our fault FB even looked this way.
- jcunwired
"...internet equivalent of the devil" - ohh-kayy...*backs away slowly*
- Edward Coffey
betrayal isn't the word i feel. it's just business. i do agree with Anthony Citrano: I wonder if there's a way to pull all of my stuff out of FF and put it on my own machine. the year I've spent here, and the 2+ years on Twitter and FB, have been to the detrimiment of my own writing and content creation. The thing about all social media is they depend on users to fill their cyber-vessels with content, and then they make a living off of that...but it's pretty difficult for you to reclaim your "stuff" later.
- .LAG liked that
If Google's motto is "do no evil" then Facebook's motto is "do whatever we want to our customers, even when it makes absolutely no sense"...yeah, I'd consider that to be bordering on evil.
- Alex Scoble
from IM
I did Alex.. Facebook sucks in many ways, they treat users like shit... BUT does this deal mean the actual end of frienfeed.com < the domain etc... what about if this place is used like a testing place and kept here? who knows?
- Rob Sellen :o)
Ironic that! ToS & privacy & UCG & bandwidth & yet how much of that can be measured without actuarial measurements of packet flow? Not surprised based on much of the commentary the past 18 months. Attribution & authenticity matters.
- Scott Moskowitz
from iPhone
I think betrayal is appropriate - the FB community is NOT the FF community. Even if they make it better, or build something completely new, they will at some point shut down or gut what they have here.
- Jennifer Dittrich
As long as my stuff is still indexed, I don't really care. I love Facebook - and I love watching my real friends interact with my Internet friends. :)
- Mona Nomura
FWIW TXT is a bigger "content" biz than music, movies, games combined ... Yet this was not a predictable exit? Come on ... Said many times - what is a fair split for UCG & those that skim the packet flow?
- Scott Moskowitz
from iPhone
Betrayal is definitely appropriate. So is apprehension and a little bit of anger.
- Mike Lewis
I feel the same way! I'm glad I'm not alone in that feeling. I have facebook I don't like it as much I like FF.
- Anna Lynn M.
I don't feel betrayed. I am, however, worried. And I know people will jump all over me and say that I am a fool for thinking that anything online can stay hidden. I wasn't naive enough to think I'd never be found, but I take steps to try to head that off. I don't use my full name, I don't link certain social sites to the blog, I don't let the blog be indexed, etc. And now, with one...
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- pea
I wouldn't worry about Facebook integrating your FriendFeed content into Facebook; that doesn't seem very likely to me.
- Tristan Seligmann
I feel you, Alex, and dread what is to come. But at the same time, seeing the reported terms of the deal, I don't think I would have turned it down either.
- Michael W. May
Alex - Think you'd have to agree (despite the fact we don't know everything) that they were smart. On the other hand, it's pretty obvious you're not alone in your sentiments (Funny - posted this to Robert's stream first by boo-boo :)
- Charlie Anzman
Alex, I feel your pain - but someone was going to acquire FriendFeed. It was inevitable. I'm just glad Facebook didn't buy Twitter.
- Bill Sodeman
I would rather that Google bought friendfeed and Facebook acquired Twitter. That would have been justice. This...this is a travesty.
- Alex Scoble
So would I alex..but it never happened..
- Rob Sellen :o)
Do you think Microsoft finish the job and eat Facebook?
- τorƍue
I love the way FriendFeed works, I hate Facebook interfaces. I wish there was another FriendFeed-like service to jump to.
- Amit Morson
I've never found Facebook to be intuitive, and I just enjoyed the manner of connecting here. Not sure what to feel now.
- Rick Cogley
I don't think it's wrong to feel betrayed. If Facebook bought Twitter, honestly I would feel the same way. I think they're going to shutter the store here, which is kind of sad, but we'll see....
- matt singley
My fears are threefold. I fear unavoidable unwanted integration. I fear the addition of the awful Facebook TOS, and I fear the loss of the community. That last one is the big one.
- Joe Pierce
Joe, perhaps FB may change their TOS...
- Bill Sodeman
It's all about the money, It's all about the dum dum didudumdum, I don't think it's funny...
- Dobromir Hadzhiev
Bill, that is a nice thought but it is very doubtful. It would solve a lot of the problem I have with them if they did though. I seriously just don't want to lose the awesome community that has built up here. I mean without FF how would I keep up with Alex, its not like I live in the same town....oh wait /stalkermodeactivate!
- Joe Pierce
If you find any decent asylum, Ryo, please check a room for me, as well, please.
- Zackatoustra
from email
Guess we didn't read the Terms of Service carefully enough. :-(
- Mahendra (SkepticGeek)
I wish it was Twitter, Google, even Yahoo but not Facebook.
- Jacque
Would you have not spent all the time here (etc...) if you were told that this is a start-up business and could get acquired at any time? Or could run out of money and shut down at any time? At least you had a chance to make the connections and share/consume that content...for free. Looks like you're better off than you were before you joined, no?
- Mohamed J
Yes, that's probably an accurate way to describe it, a sense of betrayal. Of course, we're not paying money to use this good service though we are paying time and good will, so it can be argued I suppose that FF did not betray us. I'm feeling upset myself, because I have never liked FB much. I did not want to be on there but got invited by old friends. I don't like the walled garden...
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- Rick Cogley
I especially feel crappy because I evangelized FF aggressively among my friends, most of whom are on Facebook.
- Ahsan Ali aka. Slick
To Alex Schleber: if you build it, we will come. Seriously, what Rick Cogley said too - I love that I can interact with almost anyone, not just people I'd interact with anyway and, in my case, have known forever. I love that it's like a small, really fun cocktail party with your friends, some of their friends, and a few strangers - as opposed to a convention (or, for me, a high school reunion!). Sad.
- Amy℠
It's not wrong to feel betrayed, but everyone has their price - sadly.
- David Jagger
The way the transaction was done is a betrayal of trust. Facebook can buy FF but not the trust of FF users. How much user pay for FF pay? Nothings? The time we invest in this application worth somethings unless you consider users of FF like shit.... Who care that crew of morons (FF users)? Just sell FF and move them like potatoes, right? Wrong! Trust can't be bought even with $50 Millions FriendFeed? Call it FailFriend. :S
- Claude LaFrenière
Yeah, Claude, it's definitely a trust thing.
- Rick Cogley
not if I can help it. A much better tech and more open tech than FaceFeed is around the corner. It's just a matter of waiting a while before getting on board that. #GoogleWave
- vijay
Vijay; I feel your pain on this, because it's the second time this has happened to me this year. The first time was when socialmedian was acquired by Xing, which to their credit still functions independently, but it no longer gets new feature updates. Hopefully they will capitalize on this, and start working on it again. Unfortunately, this is what many startups do when they are unsure...
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- Michael Fidler
Michael, I have no problem with businesses making money or getting acquired. BUT FACEBOOK IS THE WRONG CHOICE. They will screw you over as they are already doing now (http://friendfeed.com/ajbatac...). Like I already said here > http://friendfeed.com/dffrnt..., I would be more than happy had they sold it to google.
- vijay
I'm hoping that all this pessimism is misplaced. The comments here and elsewhere remind me of when Yahoo! bough Flickr and the Flickr community then were predicting "the end of civilisation as we know it". However, I'm not familiar with how Facebook operates...
- Gordon Herd
Gordon, this is not a talk about the death of friendfeed: rather about facebook being the wrong choice. Facebook / friendfeed will be fine for decades to come.
- vijay
I guess we need to focus on the positive - i dont know what they are yet, Im with Michael - I *loved* socialmedian and now hardly even visit it.. its often taking a nap, hard to log into and takes too long. My new home was starting to be FF.. I like the idea of keeping business and personal stuff separate which I did well before.. now they are all merging.. Maybe LinkedIN will step up with some new functionality to rival it?
- Nigel Walsh
No more "closed" services for me Nigel. What if Facebook buys LinkedIn later on? Nope. Google Wave it is! Open is the future. I got my hands burnt enough with this incident.
- vijay
Nigel, I think you touched on the one reason this is a bad combination for me (emphasize me). Facebook is personal and I don't want to mix the two together. Besides you and maybe 15 others, everyone else there are "RW" friends. I've been very cautious about whom I add, and I don't see any other choice but to change my attitude about this now. I already started today, but they're people I would have added anyways. From the standpoint of openness, I agree with Vijay; Google would have been a better choice
- Michael Fidler
Ironically Michael, I believe all this is happening "because" of Google. Google is not an option for FF. Why is all this happening? FF had 2 choices till this deal happened: 1. Go against Google Wave alone with strained resources or 2: Team up with FB and use their resources to carry this forward and meet Google Wave head to head "while" making a cool stack of cash. It's obvious, to a...
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- vijay
( @ Michael; my previous comment up top might seem to lead you to believe I wish they sold to Google. That was not what I meant. I used Google as an example to show that I'm not opposed to a sale if the company buying FF was a good match. sorry for the confusion. )
- vijay
I guess consolidation is inevitable - and there will be a new poster child just around the corner... Its what makes this industry so exciting.
- Nigel Walsh
That's a great strip, vijay! I'm glad you did it. People often "ignore" or underestimate the efforts that other people put in providing content like these on FF. Really appreciate it! Ganbatte kudasai ne, shika baka! :)
- directeur
same goes for you sukebei directeur! =P Keep the Jazz flowin' and the Code rollin' :D
- vijay
Kuso! I'll miss your insults rokudenashi! :)
- directeur
whaaaaaat? I'm going nowhere directeur!; just changing the way I interact a little to take care of the crappy FB ToS.
- vijay
I hate what friendfeed has just did :(
- sirishkumar
Vijay, I understood your comparison and you may be right about Google too, but it doesn't change anything does it? The only thing I can say is; change is what you make of it. I know you're not happy about this and neither am I, but it's the risk I took getting involved with a startup again. The funny thing is; I know I'll do it again! If there’s a need for another community like this, someone will fill it. With all the bad idea’s out there, it’s a no-brainer.
- Michael Fidler
Me and many others like me were absolutely sure FriendFeed wouldn't sell out and were in for the long haul. See this -->- http://friendfeed.com/dffrnt... I don't spend as much time anywhere else online and had I known FF would sell out to a POS like FB then I wouldn't have spent the time I did here either.
- vijay
there's no changing what happened Michael, you're right. But with betrayal comes hurt and then you vent. That's what you're seeing. I will move on and so will everyone else... to Facebook and then onward to the next big thing and so on. All this venting is just the process of getting adjusted to sudden change.
- vijay
Chers amis vous faites maintenant partie de ma liste "Francophonies". Je vous crée une "recherche sauvée" dédiée, pour voir tous vos "aime". Ca c'est amusant [This is fun].
- Genaro Bardy
quote: "Y'a pas beaucoup de filles ... - pseudotoda" unquote - oui, j'ai souvent remarqué ça, ce n'est pas encore la parité... comment expliquer cela ? (je me suis rajoutée pour faire nombre, c'est tout, et parce que le message apparaissait dans mon flux, mais je ne fais que passer, hein, je ne suis pas en #France alors je ne compte pas !)
- Otir
Genaro, c'est vrai que cela manque de fille. Il faudra créer une "Girl's list". Bonne journée.
- Bob Lyr
Et qu'est-ce que ça donne, à l'arrivée?
- Agnès Maillard
C'est sûrement parce que je parle que de bière et de voitures... J'aime bien l'idée d'une Girls list. Qu'est-ce qui pourrait être un bel hameçon ?
- Genaro Bardy
@Otir C'est plutôt francophone, tu es donc le bienvenu
- Genaro Bardy
@Agnes Ca donne un flux majoritairement français, avec beaucoup plus de signal que dans mon flux principal qui est surtout liè à Robert Scoble et ceux qui ont bien voulu le suivre. A'm plait bien. C'est un peu long à créer, mais ça vaut le coup
- Genaro Bardy
quand des garçons demandent une liste de filles, comme ça, sans raison précise, vous pouvez comprendre que ça ne nous attire pas trop ;)
- Anne Genevay
Anne :) je me suffirais d'une seule, la liste deviendrait incombrante.
- abdellah
@anne be my guest. SI tu as de mileurs résultats, je serais curieux. Et il y a une raison, pour avoir un flux français sur FF. La salle francophone n'est pas mise à jour automatiquement pat tout le monde
- Genaro Bardy
oups ! ce n'était qu'une boutade, surtout pas pour t'attaquer. J'ai bien compris ta démarche puisque je suis sur la liste des filles et je suis bien loin de tes résultats ;)
- Anne Genevay
nonon pardon si j'ai pu laisser penser que j'étais vexé. Je ne pense pas être le mieux placé c'est tout, mais j'aimerais vraiment voir plus de filles dans ma liste. Faut que je me remette au smiley moi... :)
- Genaro Bardy
J'arrive avec ma baguette sous le bras et ma bouteille de rouge !
- Sycophante
from iPhone
A propos, les Français, il y a aussi ce post/recensement où vous pouvez vous inscrire, en précisant si possible votre lieu de résidence : http://friendfeed.com/ffdirec...
- Brome
t'as mis le temps. j'étais sûr que tu le posterais :)
- Genaro Bardy
Ouais, fallait juste que je trouve le temps. J'ai bien 2 heures de train à tuer par jour, mais j'aime pas trop poster ou commenter depuis mon iPhone.
- Brome
Français Francophone Européen Twitter Friendfeeder de retour sur une connexion ADSL (Pas bien sur d'avoir tout suivi, à part laisser un commentaire (comme sur les skyblogs ?