Q1: October 23, 2009 - Is an organization's culture a factor in how successful their ability to adopt social media & participate is? Does there need to be a culture shift? Who should lead it?
Leaders need to get it, too. They have to understand pros/cons, speak to the organization's need to hear and participate in conversation about the brand/company.
- Star Aasved
I think a culture shift will need to happen if the organization is used to being closed or if they are very concerned with control. As far as leading it, I think those that are passionate and who 'get' social should be at the helm, regardless of title, if they can prove their chops (ie: already active with a community/ don't spam/ understand how social fits within a strategy).
- Tanya McGinnity
I think the higher the buy-in comes from the better. That said if you force community management on someone who doesn't want the job the results are sure to be less than optimal.
- Arié Moyal
If you need to shift culture in order to be successful, you may be setting yourself up for failure.
- Robert Swanwick
The culture needs to shift from "Don;t tell anyone what we're doing and push product" to "be transparent and engage"
- Arié Moyal
@ Robert Disagree That's like saying getting people to buy wordprocessors in the 80s was impossible if the culture needed shifting
- Arié Moyal
Arié, agreed. And that's not a huge shift, IMO -- again, it's based on understanding what social media can do for the organization.
- Star Aasved
Social Media can appeal to different cultures in different ways: listening, sharing, measuring, etc...
- Robert Swanwick
Not necessarily, but I think it would depend on their expectations. Have their set realistic goals for what they want to achieve by participating in SM and online communities
- Sue
Some companies don;t need SM for community management They do just as well if not better with direct marketing
- Arié Moyal
With the team I work with, they have expressed that they get overwhelmed because the term social media sounds so vast to them. It's really important like Sue mentioned to set realistic goals.
- Tanya McGinnity
@Arie: Sounds like the choice of social media depends on the culture of the community? The type of buyer/end user you're trying to appeal to.
- Bryan Person
@ Bryan That and the product Some products just sell better offline
- Arié Moyal
@Arie: Of course. Plus, most word of mouth happens offline. The social media work is all for a small piece of the total pie.
- Bryan Person
@Arie, @Star Leadership by example is a very powerful way to get people off the fence and contributing. A little peer pressure never hurts, either.
- Lou Ordorica
@Tanya I agree. Some don't realize even the small thing of having a conversation with a customer can be seen as SM. They think SM is a magic pill or something, and don't think about it at its basic level - eg relationships.
- Sue
@Sue I have started a social media saturation count down clock. People are getting impatient to get past the hype, and see real change to their day-to-day businesses.
- Lou Ordorica
People are still saying there is no money in SM - I disagree, it's just that there is no direct marketing in SM. Well there is, it's just SPAM
- Arié Moyal
But I know that my friend Claire who is the Director of the International Climate Change Programme at WWF started tweeting on her own before she was able to get them to adopt a more SM approach
- Arié Moyal
@Lou, yes there does seem to be a lot of hype doesn't there. I think that is what puts some companies off, they think its more complicated than it really is.
- Sue
Lou, good point though I think it's not just day-to-day, but over the longer haul that is really of benefit to business if we are looking at the big picture.
- Star Aasved
@ Bryan A lot of people forget that social media is a tool for conversation not a magic pill
- Arié Moyal
Back to the culture shift. I think that it can be hard for some companies to want to speak with their customers because they are afraid of the repercussions. They don't want to get in trouble with the boss and they're not used to being told that it's OK for them to be open (within limits)
- Tanya McGinnity
@Tanya, I think fears can be curtailed with clearly communicating social discourse guidelines and training (rule #1: don't get fired). There will always be corner cases, though.
- Lou Ordorica
I don't think you can get much backlash from engaging unless you or the company have been "asking for it"
- Arié Moyal
I think that for some, being social online may have been spoiled by having been roughed up in forums where there may not have been a community manager. Just speaking in terms of one staffer who had a bad experience on a film forum.
- Tanya McGinnity
@ Tanya Fair enough but then that person may not be suited to a CM role
- Arié Moyal
@Tanya - managing a forum myself I can relate to that.
- Sue
@Arie I'm not saying the person is to be a CM, I'm referring to folks who do SM in our org. If they can't handle forum abuse then they are certainly not cut out for the CM role :)
- Tanya McGinnity
@ Tanya I guess I'm doing it all so for me it falls under CM
- Arié Moyal
I used to do minimal measuring. Mainly concentrating on how much advertising revenue our community generated, but now advertising is not part of my duties I am concentrating more on metrics of the members themselves and have found this to be very beneficial. Something I should have started a lot sooner than I did.
- Sue
Connie: I think measurement *has* to be taken into account. Otherwise, how do you know if you're succeeding?
- Bryan Person
I have this convo all the time. I think most people skip the goals portion...so they don't even know what to measure.
- Scott Bishop
The rub is, what to measure? Common sense says starts with agreed-upon goals and working backwards, but in many cases your sponsor doesn't have a clear picture themselves.
- Lou Ordorica
Wondering what measurements today's participants find most valuable - which indicate social is working for the organization?
- Star Aasved
@Scott, Yep. This is a HUGE risk, because if you can't show the impact you are having, guess who will be on the short list come layoff-time?
- Lou Ordorica
@Scott: The 2009 Tribalization of Business came out recently, and like last year, not measuring activities that track to business goals was again a problem in several communities.
- Bryan Person
I measure much around the success stories that the community has in interacting with our website. When I hear that I've solved a problem or helped someone out, that's golden... but it might not be as golden in terms of value to the 'higher ups'
- Tanya McGinnity
@ Lou If they don't then its your job to set them How else do you know,as Bryan said, if you're succeeding
- Arié Moyal
sorry hit enter too quick! - and I'm able to gather stat's. Last March I provided adv training to 30% of our customer base & they all upgraded. There is a direct ROI to that
- Connie Bensen
My issue with goal setting is putting numbers on organic growth
- Arié Moyal
@Bryan I find that a big problem for companies. They don't know what to measure or even if they're measuring they can't answer why. Start with the goal and reverse engineer the how. Then you can know exactly what to measure.
- Scott Bishop
Lou - I agree that the goals need to be set. People shouldn't be engaged without a strategy.
- Connie Bensen
@Arie, the goals don't need to revenue all the time. Can be...we want x of new site clicks, or to come to an event...etc
- Scott Bishop
@Scott I agree - Start with the Strategy - which determines the goals - which shows what to measure. Then choose what % change you want. (Benchmark & get busy). The tactical is also driven by the goals & ultimately the strategy.
- Connie Bensen
Bottom line is if SM is not leading to increased sales you're wasting your time - No? I mean you have to benchmark it before you start so you can compare. Google Analytics can tell you where traffic is coming from and you can use promo codes but accept that not everyone will use them even if you are driving them there
- Arié Moyal
I also wonder how measurement comes into the equation when you take on a new CM job. What ROI the company is anticipating, and how they measure if you have met the goals they set when they hired the CM. In other words if you are new to the community or have been hired to start one, how do you agree on measurement?
- Sue
Tanya, I've measured success stories for some communities as well and agree on the value. It's difficult to determine, though, what impact those have on the organization.
- Star Aasved
At UGCX this week the CEO of NPR said Nothing might work, so try everything She's done a great job with their community
- Arié Moyal
@Arie: Don't agree that it's always ultimately about increased sales. We have a client whose primary goal is education, not sales.
- Bryan Person
@Sue as someone hired to get CM started I can tell you that the focus is first to set up the infrastructure and then start engaging The company will want to see $$$$$ That's what they're they're for
- Arié Moyal
Your can goals can be anything...not always sales. But you need goals, regardless of what they are. Otherwise you're just sending tweets and facebook posts for fun
- Scott Bishop
@ Bryan Fair enough but what's point of educating people for them?
- Arié Moyal
For many businesses, the goal of customer satisfaction in terms of responsiveness may not be a measurable stat in the short term, but there is long term value in customer loyalty.
- Star Aasved
@ Star There is no doubt that SM is a long term strategy Thanks for confirming :)
- Arié Moyal
It seems everyone agrees that CMs should create goals. But, not many examples of goals/measurements people use. Is it because they are difficult to communicate? Or because no one really measures? Too much voodoo?
- Thomas Knoll
The measues are clear to me: Responses, relationships, traffic, conversions What's tough is showing the link between SM efforts and the last two
- Arié Moyal
Hi! Thanks for joining us for CmtyChat this Friday. Feel free to introduce yourselves here, The topic I've chosen is Culture shift required. Let's talk about the internal culture required for comm mgrs to be successful.
Hello Rob Swanwick. Founder of Speaker Interactive and twebevent. Currently working on a drupal platform to support Chat communities (mostly Twitter chat)
- Robert Swanwick
Hey Connie! Looking forward to an interesting chat :)
- Arié Moyal
Q2: October 23, 2009 - Do you think that organizations realize the extent that community people can contribute to the biz obj's? What do you do within yours to push that envelope?
I believe some parts of an organization can see how community contributes - those people who understand how reaching a broader audience can be of benefit. To push, it's a matter of getting one's feet wet, I think, getting involved in listening, hearing what is said and based upon those results determining next moves.
- Star Aasved
I think a good question to add to this is whether community managers do enough to provide the business results gained from community participation. I personally don't feel confident enough in this area and could use some tools, tips, training.
- Tanya McGinnity
I'm constantly educating my boss about how to use social media but he hired me specifically for community management so I guess I'm lucky in that way
- Arié Moyal
Tanya, when it comes to tools I find a weakness -- it's not easy to measure concrete results based on traditional metrics, IMO.
- Star Aasved
Traditional metrics still work - not follower/fan/member #s but responses, conversions, traffic etc
- Arié Moyal
They work to some extent, but can't measure long term benefit/gain, IMO.
- Star Aasved
Tanya, that's a really good point - are you provided with enough training/tools to do your job well?
- Connie Bensen
I put up a question on measurement - and I need to join a call in 12 min's - but I'll be multitasking
- Connie Bensen
I think that one challenge is that traditional business expects #'s on a quarterly basis. That's about the time that one is just starting to see progress in social media
- Connie Bensen
@Tanya @Star @Arie, it's relatively easy to measure activity of your community, but attributing this to key performance indicators (downloads, try-n-buys, paid subscriptions, new business) is what separates men from boys, women from the girls. :)
- Lou Ordorica
@Lou - yes, and a bit sticky from my perspective.
- Star Aasved
Rachel Happe has a great preso on slideshare re: growth of online communities let me find it
- Arié Moyal
I think that you need to build in the 'how did you hear about us' and collect that info in surveys
- Connie Bensen
@Connie - I'm from a digital marketing background with years of agency experience who transitioned over to a few community management positions.. so I'd say I'm self taught. But then again, I guess that's how many of us got our start ') As far as support, I think I would like more integration with internal teams to see how we can all effectively work together. Might be interesting to examine any CM certification if that is indeed something out there (given the position is still somewhat new to many orgs)
- Tanya McGinnity
@Arie, I've had success starting small, taking an existing program with clearly identified costs and outcomes (example, producing a product launch video), then applying social media to the same problem (a user generated video contest) and comparing and contrasting the two.
- Lou Ordorica
@Connie I agree re: surveys having a great degree of importance in helping a CM
- Tanya McGinnity
@Tanya, the community manager is rapidly becoming a fixture in many organizations, I completely agree a professional organization to certify individuals in the art and science is needed. This will give assurance to prospective employers, and help individuals with their careers, tool.
- Lou Ordorica
@Connie Could you start an online degree program? :)
- Tanya McGinnity
@Lou @Tanya. I agree. It would give some creditability to those new to the role looking to work in that area. At the moment job descriptions seem to have widely varied requirements for education/experience. No CM job description is the same and consequently it can be very confusing to the newcomer on what they need to learn in order to get a head start.
- Sue
@ Lou yo can;t say that the results are going to be exactly related to how if you don't control for externalities and not everyone has the luxury of doing both What do they do?
- Arié Moyal
@ Connie @ Tanya Surveys are great but not everyone will fill them out unless they're super short
- Arié Moyal
@Tanya @Connie Are you interested in forming an professional CM organization? I am game! :)
- Lou Ordorica
@Sue Yep -- I suggest to @Tanya and @Connie we should take the bull by the horns and form the organization. Grassroots, for the win!
- Lou Ordorica
@Arie, I don't understand your question. Can you clarify please?
- Lou Ordorica
@ Lous Sounds good to me! But do we have proven results yet? How do you allow for a constantly changing landscape?
- Arié Moyal
@Arie Good point re: length of survey. I would never suggest a rotten experience by having someone sit through 33 boring questions
- Tanya McGinnity
@ Lou How do people who can only run one scenario show their impact?
- Arié Moyal
@Thomas, Yep the CR is a cool organization, but I'm thinking along the lines of formal accreditation, a title you can attache to your resume, like project managers use PMP.
- Lou Ordorica
@Arie Hunh? I am not understanding your questions.
- Lou Ordorica
@ Thomas The CR is awesome we love Jim & Rachel bt are they certifying people?
- Arié Moyal
@Lou As a former Project Manager , I like the analogy with the PMP
- Tanya McGinnity
What's cool about CM is that soon journalists will all have to become CMs so the CM community will grow exponentially
- Arié Moyal
RANDOM: October 23, 2009 - Here's the thread where you can introduce yourselves and your community, and suggest questions for the wider group. Anything else goes, too!
Come experience a totally unique 2009 Garden of Memory Music/Performance Walk-Through Event where I'm performing next: http://creativesagearts.com/blog...
I get caught up on mundane things like following ppl back when I'm taking a mental break. Today has been good for that. But now it's time to get to work!
- Connie Bensen
Hey Tom, Now I feel like expectations for my tweeting interesting things! (because you followed me on FriendFeed). I hope I can live up to them! :)
- Connie Bensen
Trying to Actively Listen Online? Get Smart About it - Hire Techrigy Seriously, people. This is a straight out plug for the good folks over at Techrigy. You may... - http://www.dyersituations.com/2009...
what about other sites, especially those including consumer-generated content that influences potential consumers? Let's examine social metrics and platforms that provide visibility into the conversations, snippets, and anecdotes that people add to marketing messages you create. Your awareness campaigns, enhanced or challenged by social content as potential customers head toward the point of purchase, invariably include some element of social media. While a "more connected" segment of your audience -- think "Generation C" (define) -- may be more likely to create content, a significant portion of all age groups consume social content.
- webosapien (Burcu Tüzün)
Take a look at Forrester's recently updated "Profiler" tool. While social content consumption is an established behavior for about 80 percent of people ages 18 to 24, nearly 60 percent of those 55 and older also regularly consume social content. Social content is now a large factor in influencing potential purchases, regardless of a consumer's age or gender. As such, measuring and...
more...
- webosapien (Burcu Tüzün)
Techrigy's SM2, Radian6, and the DIY Dashboard from KD Paine are effective solutions that allow you to tune your intelligence searches over time and largely automate the reporting process. The reports you generate, just as with the turnkey platforms, will provide a substantial basis for understanding and using social media.
- webosapien (Burcu Tüzün)
Thanks for mentioning Techrigy SM2. If you have questions, let me know
- Connie Bensen
Monitoring Social Media Until now monitoring and measuring social media was complicated, tedious, and expensive. SM2 provides an effortless way to collect, analyze, and report on what's going on in all forms of social media - blogs, wikis, social networks, Twitter, YouTube, and more.
- Juergen Plieninger
Thanks for mentioning Techrigy SM2 - Let me know if you have questions on it.
- Connie Bensen
Good morning! Just joined the room, still finding my way around *everything* in social media, including friendfeed. Haven't been able to devote full-time energy to my company's social outreach until recently. Trying not to get overwhelmed! :) Hope to have as much to offer as I have already gained. - http://cslf.wordpress.com
Actually, my most heinous crime is my newbie-ness. I am indeed "legit". Thanks for the "welcome". This is basically my first post ever on friend-feed. The "website" is a fledgling blog, and I work for a small non-profit. I'm not even here to monetize anything. Please contact me if you'd like to discuss before assuming. This was a painful entry into your community.
- Mariana Evica
Hi guys - As Community oriented people, let's work to get along. I'm going to BlogWorld & won't be online as much - but please be supportive of each other.
- Connie Bensen
Anyone have a list of "monitoring" tools/habits/tricks for monitoring brand mentions in social media? We're using Summize and Google of course...anything else?
I just found twing.com for forums; and I had found a Yahoo pipes that someone had made & put it into Netvibes that brought in diff results that G. Alerts (I should blog about them)
- Connie Bensen
TruCast is a good pay tool that actually analyzes text and quantifies opinion as positive or negative (a little buggy but still pretty solid) and Social Media Firehose (built on Yahoo Pipes) is also interesting.
- Devlin Dunsmore
from twhirl
https://www.filtrbox.com/ is definitely worth checking out...we use it in combination with Summize & Alerts. Delicious tags are also worth following for the brands vertical whatever it may be...
- Sean McColgan
I think blogging is diff - but to establish yourself - I think one needs to do both
- Connie Bensen
To establish yourself as what though? Can you not just be a micro person if you want to now? Maybe it's worth asking the question. Who says you have to be an established blogger?
- jjprojects
Is it about numbers? If one had hundreds of thousands of followers across social media without havinga blog, would that seem more credible?
- jjprojects
While it's great to see the increase in use of Twitter for this, I STRONGLY suggest you rely on the National Hurricane Center & NOAA sites for *official information* and not solely on Twitter. Twitter is a great place to help with real time events, but I sure wouldn't want to be relying on Twitter for updates only to get a FAILWHALE when you least need it. I think @spin would agree.
- Brian Daniel Eisenberg
You invite your mom to Twitter: You think Twitter is the best thing since AOLGerald-Levin-on-Fear and want to know the exact doings of everyone you care about, at all times (in 140 characters or less). If your stance is the latter, then you know how ha
- David Murray
when we went to London & Paris we had very limited web access. So I gave my mom the link to my Twitter profile. She had the most fun watching my updates. And she gave the link to her friends & relatives. (Granted she never made an account - it was fun for her!)
- Connie Bensen
Hello Beth & Scott! I joined to take notes and discuss topics with like-minded individuals. Beth, I enjoy your knowledge around non-profits, keep it rolling!
- Amie Paxton
Hi Amie - welcome to the group! :) I'm the community mgr at Network Solutions in addition to some other projects
- Connie Bensen
@Ben: Its open for everyone. Just create a new account. Its an awesome service!
- Rahul Das
Evernote it great. I use it for capturing notes. I tried it for a to-do list but it just wasn't natural. Not sure how that could be improved.
- Al Degutis
from twhirl
they got the social, sync and 'everywhere' part just right. But the actual editing capabilities when note taking are crude and basic. I keep going back to google notebook which is not as omnipresent as Evernote but is hugely more intuitive as a note taking tool.
- Kamath (नमः)
EverNote is what we want the cloud to be.
- Warner Crocker
My index cards don't need to be synced. :-) They just go with me everywhere.
- Brent Newhall
I have been a Onenote user for many years but find Evernote multiplatform sync pretty valuable.
- Tim FitzGerald
I like Evernote, all I need is an iPhone now
- Dom
Evernote is great, but disappointingly, the iPhone native app won't do anything for you that the iPhone web app doesn't do. (Which I leaves me wondering what the point is.)
- Jack Collins
No, take it from me, Steve... Evernote is a life saver. The iPhone app is great, and as soon as they introduce the ability to edit notes on the iphone...it will be indespensible!
- Ken Donofrio
If Google Notebook added a few new features, eg: text recognition, it would be an Evernote substitute. Then I can run everything through Google.
- Barak B